User talk:Lyrl - Misplaced Pages

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Christian views on masturbation

I am contemplating a larger article on this very interesting topic. Thoughts? CyberAnth 01:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

There is precedent for it, in the article Islam and masturbation. Personally, I would prefer to see an article Religious views on masturbation. I think it's nice to be able to easily compare the viewpoints of different traditions, and I don't think the topic would get so long as to require separate articles for each religion (if it did, they could always be spun off later). My tendency would be to post on the Islam page and see if there was objection to moving it to a more generic title, and then add information on Christian views to that article. I would help with the set-up if you decide that's the way you want to go. Lyrl _Contribs 13:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I am game to that. However, I think it may be more peaceful, less conflict-ridden, to simply create Religious views on masturbation and incorporate material from Islam and masturbation into the article. One reason for this is that Islam and masturbation is already part of a larger Islamic Jurisprudence project. The second is that the most logical organization of the new article would be per the number of adherents of religions, see this page for the breakdown. Christianity is 2 times larger than Islam. I venture that the folk over at Islam and masturbation will not take kindly to seeing Christianity placed at the top of the article they started. CyberAnth 05:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Here is a draft folk can work on User:CyberAnth/Religious_views_on_masturbation, if that would be helpful until it is ready to be posted. It is mostly still a cut and paste from Masturbation, although I drafted an intro, added tags where needed, and made a fair number of changes but as yet no real expansions. CyberAnth 06:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I'm really amazed at what a comprehensive article has developed in your user page. Great work! I would say it's certainly deserving of being put into article space. Lyrl _Contribs 22:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Move

Hey, I think it was lousy that you moved the content of Oral contraceptive over to Combined oral contraceptive pill, the move that I had suggested, after the Proposed Move notice had been up for less than two days. I thought that people would respect that other might be busy with their families during the holidays, and be courteous enough to wait for them. I think it would have been more reasonable to have given it more than 48 hours, especially since it's two days before Christmas. Joie de Vivre 21:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry you were offended. Should consensus emerge to move it back, I would certainly be willing to offer my time to reverse the move. Lyrl _Contribs 21:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I proposed the move; of course I support it. I think it was lousy of you to take advantage of my courtesy and willingness to give ample time to others, in what seems like a effort to grab the credit for yourself. Whatever, have a nice holiday. Joie de Vivre 21:57, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I am still digesting your answer. Will respond piece by piece. Name: "Theory of Asynchronous Evolution" is more an umbrella that includes the "The Evolutionary Theory of Sex". There are other Theories based on the same principle. so looks like it's too broad. "The Evolutionary Theory of Sex" too vague I agree. More precise will be to call it "The Evolutionary Theory of Dioecy" because it applies to organisms with separate sexes (males and females). Even more precise may be will be "The Asynchronous Theory of Dioecy" or "Dichrone? theory of Dioecy (Sex)" reflecting the fact that two sexes sort of separated in time. "Geodakyan's theory ... - doesn't sound too loud? please visit http://www.geodakian.com and let me know what you think Sashag

Delete of Analysis of a problem

Hi,

I guess you right to remove the paragraphs. They are just an introduction to the new theory. The theory is much more powerful than for example “resistance to parasites” theory. I would rather think that sex helps you get more diseases than resist them :). What do you suggest? Make a new page, move it to another existing, edit? Thank you Sashag 00:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The added section had quite a few issues.

The title was not descriptive. "Analysis of a problem" gives little to no useful information as to the contents of the section. Entitling it "Geodakyan's theory of asynchronous evolution" would be more descriptive.
It used unusual and confusing words to describe ideas for which there is a commonly accepted and used phrase. This makes reading the section very confusing. The main examples are "sexual process (conjugation..." instead of "sexual reproduction"; also "differentiation (partitioning..." instead of "different sexes" or "differentiated sexes".
Saying that there are three basic forms of reproduction and leaving it at that ignores the huge numbers of species that use more than one of the forms presented. Most plants can reproduce both sexually and asexually. Numerous animals can reproduce both hermaphroditically and also with a partner. This statement also ignores the species (such as slime moulds and fungi) that have huge numbers of sexes (about eight hundred for slime moulds, tens of thousands for fungi).
It stated evolution had an "objective". Evolution is a set of rules. It has no goal. Personifying it like that is unscientific. The rest of the article is rank with this kind of thing ("purpose of sex"), but that doesn't make it right.
It presented claims not accepted within the general scientific community as if they were true. That the existence of distinct sexes is the "opposite" of sexual reproduction, for example. Or that the existence of distinct sexes causes reduced genetic diversity. Or pretty much the entire last paragraph. If these claims are to be presented, they need to be qualified to let readers know it's just this one guy making these claims. For example, "Russian scientist V. Geodakyan has proposed that the existence of distint sexes within a species results in reduced genetic diversity for that species."; "Geodakian claims that his theory of asynchronous evolution adequately explains things long considered puzzles regarding the evolution of sex."
Part of the new section would have been better worked into existing sections. "The two-fold cost of sex" section discusses the lower reproductive potential of sexual species vs. asexual species. Geodakyan's theory about having distinct sexes reducing the reproductive potential below that of hermaphroditic species would fit in here.
Almost the entire article is about theorized advantages of sexual reproduction over asexual reproduction; the sentences about "since the asexual process is much more efficient and simple... The purpose of the sexual process is clear... bi-sexual methods have no visible advantages over asexual ones..." - all that is duplication of ideas that are already addressed in the article.
This sentence: "the sex problem is commonly considered as a reproduction problem but not an evolutionary one." makes absolutely no sense.
Links to outside websites within the text of the article are generally discouraged. Having a link to Geodakyan's website in the external links section should be sufficient. (But please, call it "Theory of Asynchronous Evolution". "The Evolutionary Theory of Sex" is just too vague a term to use it to refer to a specific theory. Especially when the author himself uses a different title.)

Lyrl _Contribs 02:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I think if it were notable someone other than Geodakyan would have picked up on the theory in the last sixty years. The lack up such acceptance in the evolutionary biology community should be acknowledged in any Misplaced Pages article (is that what you meant by "doesn't sound too loud"?) Lyrl _C 12:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It is accepted (see web site). Most important that there is almost no criticism.

The three basic forms of reproduction is a classification. Classification is a separation based on some principles. The principles of proposed classification are presence or absence of process of fusion of genetic information of two persons.

The outcome is types (forms) of reproduction: asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction If I will use the same word for criterion and outcome (sexual reproduction) it will be confusing?

That huge numbers of species use more than one of the forms presented. Most plants can reproduce both sexually and asexually. – This fact does not prevent us from distinguishing (and using) two main types. Same as division to males and females (there are mixing cases, division in time, dependence from environment etc.)

Species (such as slime moulds and fungi) that have huge numbers of sexes are should be in the “different sexes” category. May be word bi-sexual reproduction is not good.

The main difference between hermaphrodite (+, -), and bi-sexual reproduction is that hermaphrodites are still unitary system (same type of elements) while bi-sexuals are binary system (two (or many) types of elements). Again some species can use both but I do not see why it should prevent us from using this abstraction (actually the whole world is already using it).

I would greatly appreciate if you edit this text with right terminology. It should probably also be moved into biological reproduction article. There is an article Evolution of sex but there is no article (or section) “Evolution of reproduction” (Evolution of sex is a part of it). Sashag 01:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Evolutionary biology is something I have read a little about and find interesting, but am certainly not an expert on. My lack of expertise, and the fact that English is not your native language, make it very difficult for me to understand what you are saying. In other words, I believe you have some good points, but it comes across as nonsense.

As far as accepted, see Misplaced Pages:Notability: A topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works from sources that are reliable and independent of the subject itself and each other. To be included in Misplaced Pages, this theory should be able to cite several sources that:

discuss this theory, not just mention it in passing
are not connected to the author
are serious scientific sources ("not trivial")

The website provides an impressive bibliography, but does not address the notability question important for Misplaced Pages articles.

I believe the English language difficulty is a big problem here. You might try posting in your native language first (if that is Russian, the Russian Misplaced Pages is one of the larger ones at about 126,000 articles). Perhaps someone either more familiar with evolutionary biology or with Russian will be able to help you better than I can. Lyrl _C 04:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Posting in Russian: yes, of course, but it is much less important compare to English speaking audience (much less people know about it). English language difficulty: In most cases I do not translate myself. I copy/paste/edit from (1) scientific articles published in English and (2) articles published in Russian in the magazines that are translated into English. Articles of the first type passed English editing and review, articles of the second type (I hope) are translated by native English professional translators (otherwise the whole magazine will have the same problem and “come across as nonsense”). The problem can be that in most cases the translator tries to be as close to the original as possible. For example “dispersija” (russ math, statistics) was translated as “dispersion” but looks like should be “variation” (biol).

Notability: I’ll try to address this issue. Where I can find clear examples of how it should be done?Sashag 00:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

QF

On January 3, 2006, at 11:35 EST, ABC News Nightline will air a special, "The More the Holier?", on the Quiverfull movement. See http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2767898&page=1 - I thought you might be interested. CyberAnth 04:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds interesting, but way past my bedtime. I'll stick to reading about it ;) Lyrl _C 12:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Citing less than 1000 G-hits as a deletion criterion

Citing less than 1000 G-hits as a deletion criterion is a fallacy. The following is a quote from Misplaced Pages:Search engine test: "Hence the list of unique results will always contain fewer than 1000 results regardless of how many webpages actually matched the search terms." Deletion nominators should read the guidelines. Regardless, G-hits are meant to be a test to confirm notability, not disprove it.

-- Kevin Murray 21:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Response at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jason Sokol. Lyrl _C 22:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

But...

But Margret Sanger (the person who started PP) distributed pro-birth control literature. Chooserr 04:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

She promoted spermicides and diaphragms and condoms and was involved in developing the pill. I have never read about her promoting abortion. This does not mean that such information does not exist, but it does mean a citation is needed for the sentence in question. Lyrl _C 00:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Fine, honestly it isn't the most important thing to me. It's just that I had the impression that PP had always at least been pro-birth control. Chooserr 04:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Various methods of fertility awareness

Hey, Lyrl, I know that before you said you were hesitant to describe the different forms of FA, but I was really impressed by how much you knew about the different methods. Would you reconsider adding just a brief descriptor of the differences between BOM, CM, TCOYF, etc? I think it would be possible to write it in such a way that no one would try to use it (which you said was a concern). I that putting this info in, in some form, would be really helpful. Joie de Vivre 22:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)