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what is the scientific name for a diplodocus

Diplodocus is the scientific name for the genus. It's the same as the common/vernacular name, except when used formally it is always italicized and capitalized; the vernacular may be lower-case and use standard type. The species within the genus are known by their full binomial names: Diplodocus carnegiei, Diplodocus hayi, and Diplodocus longus, which can also be abbreviated to D. carnegiei, D. hayi, and D. longus after the full binomial name has been used at least once. 68.81.231.127 16:18, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Neck/tail counterbalance

The article states that the purpose of the long tail is to counterbalance the neck. Is it also possible that the tail was used as a weapon, and that the long neck evolved to counterbalance the tail?

Yes, the tail was used as a weapon sometimes, but as far as which one came first? I am not sure.
Actually there is alot of conjecture about the tail. Will try to stick more in the article Cas Liber 03:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, umm collaboration talk bit is gone so more comments here?

OK, moved the statue image to pop culture as it is nice but not correct anymore (head too high)

now to stick this one in

question is, do folk think it's too light?

Agree I agree that it's not too light.--Firsfron of Ronchester 15:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Disagree I disagree that it's too light. It shows up fine on my monitor here at home. I'll check it out at work, just to make sure, because my home PC's monitor is a little darker, but I don't forsee issues.--Firsfron of Ronchester 15:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Neck and Feeding Posture

"Interestingly, the range of movement of the neck would have allowed the head to graze below the level of the body, leading scientists to speculate on whether Diplodocus grazed on submerged water plants, from riverbanks. This concept of the feeding posture is supported by the relative lengths of front and hind limbs. Furthermore, its peglike teeth may have been used for eating soft water plants."

This needs referencing, bad. The only studies I know of involving the function of teeth settled on high-browsing because of the lack of grit. That may of course be hopelessly outdated, but stuff like the above needs to be referenced. Also, I think the other side of the argument (tripodal feeding posture, with muscular arteries pushing blood to the head) needs to be addressed. John.Conway 16:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

John - it is the same as ref 10. I put it there but wasn't familair with double referencning at the time. Will try to fix Cas Liber 23:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Comments from successful vote 15 November 2006

This is now the first Second Tier Collaboration 15/11/06-13/12/06 - working up for FAC. Now if someone wants to update a to-do list......................... Cas Liber 03:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Comments

Obvious to-do

  • The list of species needs to have explanations of why each one is different, preferably prose-style.
  • More references are needed; T. rex has 73, many referenced several times. Diplodocus has 1720. References are definitely required for such statements as Diplodocus is the longest dinosaur known from a complete skeleton.
  • Pop culture section de-listified.
  • Short paragraphs combined.

Anything else? Firsfron of Ronchester 04:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

need to find figures too: an artist reconstitution of diplodocus, size comparisons, etc...ArthurWeasley 04:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The bit about neck posture needs to be expanded on, maybe not to the degree that belongs on the main Sauropod article, but at least enough to convey that this is still a controversial topic. A few extra sources, and discussions that refer specifically to the papers and what they say, would help.Dinoguy2 03:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I just realised from my experience with Stegosaurus - I suspect the description section will need to be larger and swallow up some material from the Paleobiology and subheadings. On the FAC list they didn't seem to like many short subheadings. Cas Liber 21:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

........like this. I've moved tail bit. Some form of summary of neck bit can go there too I think. Need to rejig images thoughCas Liber 08:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Gettin' there....................

OK guys, I rearranged things a bit; 37 refs is looking better. I suddenly thought some bit on origins in/under classification might be good (relationship t oearly sauropods)Cas Liber 23:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a slight inconsistency on the description of the feeding habit of diplodocus in the text. In the 'Neck' section, the theory of the animal feeding on soft aquatic plants is put forward while the 'Diet' section talks about the wear pattern of the teeth consistent with the stripping of plant foliage up to 12 m high above ground. Somehow the alternative riparian theory should be reminded in the diet section, I think. Otherwise, the rest looks pretty good. ArthurWeasley 01:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I've reshuffled a bit the paleobio section. For instance, the depiction of Hay in the middle of the aquatic description seemed a little odd (the depiction does not actually show an aquatic animal) so I moved it to the posture section. I also moved the aquatic plant feeding theory in the diet section ArthurWeasley 01:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Yep, that looks better, Arthur. Any idea on what do do with this sentence? A classic 1910 reconstruction by Dr. Oliver P. Hay depicts two Diplodocus with splayed lizard-like limbs on the banks of a river. Firsfron of Ronchester 01:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
It's in the posture section. Other stuff: there should be a conclusive note at the end of the posture section stating that the current consensus depicts diplodocus with a stiff neck held horizontally above the ground, I think. Also, the sentence on the trunk need a reference. I am pretty sure I've read it in one of Bakker's book years ago, could somebody confirm? For the diet, have gastroliths ever been associated with diplodocids? Also, could something be said about eggs and nesting habit? Sauropod eggs have been found in South America and Europe which could hint on diplodocus reproductive behavior. Unfortunately, I think no sauropod egg or nest has been found in North America which could lead to speculations that either this animal migrated to lay eggs or that it did not have nesting grounds (as depicted in Walking with dinosaurs). Just putting up some ideas. ArthurWeasley 02:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I know it's in the posture section, but it's got a big link in the middle of it. Will work on the rest now. Firsfron of Ronchester 02:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The link is an image. Could this be uploaded in wiki commons and added to the article? That's an old image so what would be its copyright status? ArthurWeasley 02:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Copyright expired (published before 1923). The site claims copyright on the images used in the site, but cannot claim copyright on this material. Firsfron of Ronchester 02:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
OK. How about this (take a look at the article now)? ArthurWeasley 04:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Looks nice and contrasty small, bit blurry when larger. Good one to get into articleCas Liber 04:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I think it looks very good, pity about the blurriness in the larger version. Still, v nice. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I added a small bit on reproduction. It's mostly to the effect that "since titanosaurs layed eggs thus, then Diplodocus might have done so too". And I mentioned the Walking with DInosaurs hypothesis. Any other information? Sphenacodon 07:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I know this association (titanosaurs laid eggs a certain way, dippy probably did too) is pretty obvious, but unless it's been suggested in print this is original research (and the WWD bit is speculation for a TV show and doesn't belong outside a discussion of that show).Dinoguy2 03:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Have a look at this: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2006.00197.x?cookieSet=1 I added some info on it in the posture section, if that's the correct place. Sphenacodon 07:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry everyone as I have been a bit quiet on this one. I am going to have to partly wikihibernate

for a week or two to attend to some pressing stuff off the computer, though I will try to drop in. Thus feel free to nominate once people feel the article is worthy..Cas Liber 23:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Peer review as prep for FAC

Someone asked me to peer review this prior to FA candidacy. I read the article, and a few of the other dinosaur articles on Misplaced Pages. In general, they're of high quality compared to articles on organisms in a number of other categories on Misplaced Pages. I have to read some of the major taxonomy papers, which I am doing, and will start posting comments as soon as possible.

A few overall comments on dinosaur articles that I think would make them generally more useful are that the articles often fail to give a sense of the type of scientists who study dinosaurs, namely paleontologists and stratigraphers--this should be included in the lead, paleontologists at least, stratigraphers and/or geochronologists should be mentioned in the section on ages. This is all important information to a general audience who may read a single article on dinosaurs. I would like, in general, for names of scientists to include their discipline with the first mention, or some comment about them. There should also be some sense of how important the Morrison Formation is to dinosaur finds in the United States, especially when dealing with a dinosaur that is either well-studied from the Morrison Formation, or found in large quantities, or well known, and dinosaurs should, in genera descriptions, include a single comment about where the major finds are made, the geological formation, paleontological or modern location, in lists of species. The lead paragraph should, imo, include a sentence about the major finds, the most complete find, or the first find. Almost all names should be linked. This will be a problem if there are red links for FAC, but these dinosaur hunters can and should have at least stubs. Mudge, for example, was a Kansas state geologist, and has a page at Oceans of Kansas, Samuel Wendell Williston should be linked, and described as a paleontologist in the article. KP Botany 17:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your above comments, KP. I will work, in the next few days, to work your suggestions into the article. I also look forward to your futher comments. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester 18:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Getting there...I would like to see something on what makes each species different but I don't have anything on this. Once this is done (if it can be done?), I reckon it's pretty close to nomination...Cas Liber 07:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
It's already a lot better than many FAC, imo, so I wouldn't worry too much about attaining it, although the editors who work on FAC are getting a bit tougher--still this is a generally well-written and well-researched article. I will probably ask for extensive clarifications and edits, as I think it has the potential to be ultra-FA. I will start posting tomorrow. I'm still working on the sauropod taxonomy, though. I have to admit I spent very little time studying sauropod taxonomy as a child, as I was a Triceratops person. But I don't think it would have mattered. You dinosaur folks work well as a team, and are putting out a lot of good information and working hard to be careful about your science, you and the Cetacean folks in particular. KP Botany 04:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Great! Looking forward to further comments. You may also be interested to note we are currently working to improve Triceratops, too. Firsfron of Ronchester 04:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

PR Introduction

1."Diplodocus (pronounced /ˌdɪ.pləˈdɔ.kəs/ or /dɪˈplɔd.əkəs/; meaning "double beam") is a genus of diplodocid sauropod dinosaur which lived in what is now western North America at the end of the Jurassic Period."

  • I would get lizard-hipped in right away, dinosaurs don't belong to the specialists, and the familiar words that amateurs have encountered for ages should be used right away with their technical meanings to associate the paleontologist's jargon with the layman's vernacular.

(not sure; we haven't done it with other FACs...)

2."The generic name is in reference to its double-beamed chevron bones (Greek diplos/διπλος meaning 'double' and dokos/δοκος meaning 'wooden beam' or 'bar')."

  • The chevron bones need explained right away, because they're extensively discussed in the early literature on Diplodocus. Locate them on the underside of the tail right in this introductory sentence. (good point. done)

3."The chevrons, initially believed to be unique to Diplodocus, have since then been discovered in other diplodocids."

  • Since when? I thought it's been a while. Give a date (year) if possible and tie to a specific example of the first other diplodocid to have one. Does Apatosaurus have them?

4."Diplodocus was one of the more common dinosaurs found in the Upper Morrison Formation, about 150 to 147 million years ago (Kimmeridgian and Tithonian epochs), in an environment and time dominated by giant sauropods , such as Camarasaurus, Barosaurus, Apatosaurus and Brachiosaurus."

  • Unless geology's changed as much as botany, Kimmeridgian and Tithonian are ages of the Late Jurassic epoch of the Jurassic period of the Mesozoic era. As this is a North American dinosaur I think Late Jurassic is better, than using the European faunal stages. I'll have to ask a stratigrapher about this, too.

5."It is among the most easily identifiable dinosaurs, with its classic dinosaur shape, long neck and tail and four sturdy legs. For many years it was the longest dinosaur known."

  • Oh, please, can't we say what's longer? "For many years it was the longest dinosaur known, a position currently held by Longestiosaurus dinosuarus

(info on longest dinos is in description section. This may be too unwieldy for the intro)

6."Its great size may have been a deterrent to contemporaneous predators, such as Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus."

  • Reword this to get in the fact that these dinosaurs are also North American, Upper Jurassic, Morrison Formation fauna.


(yep. I have attempted to rewrite)

  • Is Diplodocus found only in Morrison Formation strata? State this explicitly.
  • The Morrison Formation and Diplodocus go hand-in-hand to dinosaur lovers of the world. And dinosaurs are known from their fossils, use this word specifically in the introduction along with some descriptive terms of the Morrison Formation, "a species of dinosaur known from fossilized bones commonly found in the (siltstones, sandstones, ash layers, whatever) of the western North American Morrison Formation." They're studied by paleontologists and geologists, get at least paleontologist in the introduction, probably both.

KP Botany 23:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

(have to muse on the last point. The input is very tmely. thankyou)Cas Liber 05:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's a need to state that Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus were also from the Upper Jurassic, as "contemporaneous" already states that. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Forgot to mention: I think "lizard-hipped diplodocid sauropod dinosaur" is far too wordy. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Right. I've changed 'epoch' to 'faunal stage', as Misplaced Pages's articles on the Kimmeridgian and Tithonian currently state they are faunal stages. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I forgot to add, when I was a kid in the 70s and it looked like there was no single entity dinosauria, we used to pay alot more attention to Saurischia and Ornithischia than currently, just seem to jump mentally to the groups (sauropods, ceratopsians etc.) Cas Liber 06:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, they may be old-time more familiar, and I haven't spent much time with dinosaurs since I was a kid, growing up in a family of paleontologists, in the back rooms of museums, with pets named after famous fossils, rocks of major formations as door stops, and the geological time scale posted on the kitchen wall--and I love being reminded of how awesome my childhood was by reading these dinosaur articles on Misplaced Pages. On the European faunal stages, I did speak to a stratigrapher, and asked her if Kimmeridgian and Tithonian should be used as dates for Diplodocus finds, and she said, "No, I would never use European faunal stages to describe North American dinosaurs, why aren't they just using Upper Jurassic Morrison Formation?" This may be something new, though, in paleontology, that I'm not aware of. KP Botany 17:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
The (st)age is still in wide use among paleontologists in scientific literature. here, for example. And informally, too: here. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
The first source you send me is about a find in Portugal, where European faunal stage names would properly be used, and the second is a list serve, and informal usage. The issue is not whether they are in use, the issue is using European faunal stages to describe the stratigraphic location of the Morrison Formation Diplodocus finds. KP Botany 23:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
"lizard-hipped diplodocid sauropod dinosaur" too wordy? Hmmmm, well, maybe... KP Botany 23:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Late Jurassic Climates, Vegetation, and Dinosaur Distributions, a paper comparing dinosaur distributions and climate/vegetation levels, uses faunal stages when discussing the Morrison Formation ("Similarities between the faunas of the Morrison Formation and the dinosaur-bearing sediments of the Tendaguru beds of Tanzania have long been noted (Schuchert 1918; Russell et al. 1980; Maier2003). The deposits both appear to span the Kimmeridgian-Tithonian interval, and their fossil records comprise plants, invertebrates, and a dinosaur-dominated vertebrate assemblage."), and I've found many other professional papers which also contain this usage. Firsfron of Ronchester 00:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's another one which specifically lists Diplodocus by faunal stage. Firsfron of Ronchester 00:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Except he uses it only in the list, and once within the text, and parenthetically always, when describing a group that has European examples, neosauropods, otherwise he uses various subsections of Jurassic or Cretaceous throughout, Late Jurassic, Early to Middle, etc., It is acceptable when describing European species, and it is not clear from the list that the European stages are not thrown in simply for correlation. Also it was more common in the late 19th century and early 20th century, as most of the specimens listed in the table are from. Again, it's not really the current standard, it's something I'm not used to seeing in modern papers on stratigraphy outside of Europe. If you simply must use it for some reason, then use it like this author whose paper you offer, in parantheses. KP Botany 01:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, just checked Dinosauria 2nd edition, they are using stages Kimmeridgian etc. for dinosaurs wherever they are worldwide (American etc.) and I figure since this was a pretty monumental publication, if they're doing it I'd pretty well accept it as consensus. cheers Cas Liber 01:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Stages like Kimmeridgian, Tithonian are now global stages, not just local ones (such as Portlandian, which is roughly equivalent to the Tithonian and is a European faunal stage). Both the age when a faunal stage begins/ends and their names are regulated by the International Commission on Statigraphy (website: http://www.stratigraphy.org/). The Oxfordian, Kimmeridgian and Tithonian are the official global names for the stages of the Late Jurassic. Mark t young 13:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah. Misplaced Pages's article on the Geologic time scale seems to indicate that while Geologists tend to talk in terms of Upper/Late, Lower/Early and Middle parts of periods and other units , such as "Upper Jurassic", and "Middle Cambrian". paleontologists define a system of faunal stages, of varying lengths, based on changes in the observed fossil assemblages. The lovely Thescelosaurus site uses faunal stages when discussing dinosaur genera, as does Palaeos Vertebrates (both inside and outside of parentheses). And, of course, there are hundreds of papers which use them, too. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
I do have more comments on this, too. First of all, Dinosauria is international in focus, so it wouldn't surprise that they would correlate European faunal stages, and the Thescelosaurus site is Gondwanan in focus, and Mesozoic European faunal stages are discussed in relation to the Tethys Sea, so Gondwanan Mesozoic fauna would be related. I did look at the ICS site, and it seems that they are saying that these stages and their international correlation and usage will be a thing of 2008, not that they are currently recognized internationally now. And I'm confused about the Portlandian comment as the ICS seems to be saying that it's a regional stage, not an official global name, and the ICS seems to be saying it only recognizes the beginning of the faunal stages, not the beginning and end. Their website is a bit difficult to navigate, so maybe you could post a link and quote a citation? It would be useful to understand this once and for all and its underlying policy for all Misplaced Pages articles that use European faunal stages or International faunal stages. Also there is an attempt to use only age, not stage. KP Botany 21:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The Portlandian comment was that it is the name of the local European stage, not a global official one (which is the Tithonian). The chart at: http://www.stratigraphy.org/cheu.pdf is the current, 2006, timescale. It is only the boundary between Stages which is formally regulated, therefore the end of a stage is defined if the next Stage boundary is formalised. However, not all stages are currently defined (using Global Standard Section and Points - GSSPs : such as the start of Ammonite Zones, radiometric dating, etc). The "Geologic Time Scale 2004" is the most recent complete statigraphic record for each Period, Epoch and Stage, although the formalisation of Stage names had occurred by 1989 with the publication of the first "Geologic Time Scale" by Harland et al.

The reference for the current Geologic Time Scale is: F.M.Gradstein, J.G.Ogg, A.G.Smith, F.P.Agterberg, W.Bleeker, R.A.Cooper, V.Davydov, P.Gibbard, L.Hinnov, M.R. House, L.Lourens, H-P.Luterbacher, J.McArthur, M.J.Melchin, L.J.Robb, J.Shergold, M.Villeneuve, B.R.Wardlaw, J.Ali, H.Brinkhuis, F.J.Hilgen, J.Hooker, R.J.Howarth, A.H.Knoll, J.Laskar, S.Monechi, J.Powell, K.A.Plumb, I.Raffi, U.Röhl, P.Sadler, A.Sanfilippo, B.Schmitz, N.J.Shackleton, G.A.Shields, H.Strauss, J.Van Dam, J.Veizer, Th.van Kolfschoten, and D.Wilson, 2004. A Geologic Time Scale 2004. Cambridge University Press

However, it should be noted two types of terminology are regulated by the ICS, Chronostratigraphic and Geochronologic. In the first the terms used are: Eonothem, Erathem, System, Series, Stage and substage; whilst in Geochronologic the terms used are: Eon, Era, Period, Epoch, Age and Subage. The two types of terminology refer to different concepts. Chronostratigraphic refers to all the rocks and fossils that are from a length of geological time, whereas Geochronologic refers to the length of time itself. For example the Jurassic Period is the length of time from approximately 200-145 Ma, but the Jurassic System refers to all the rocks and fossils which come from that Period. I mention this as there seems to be some confusion about using Age and Stage in relation to Kimmeridgian, Tithonian etc. Both are correct, however, they refer to differ things. I previously used "faunal stage" as a non-terminological way of describing Tithonian etc, though to be terminologically correct Age is what should be used. I hope this clears things up a bit. Mark t young 14:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Right then, shall we nominate?

(big breath...) Right then, shall we nominate? Cas Liber 01:33, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm ready but KP may have more suggestions. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:49, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
I will make my comments regardless of its status as a FAC or even FA as I think folks did excellent work on the article and really care about its quality. Still, I work more than full time, and will be busy with holidays and family until January 7th, so may be slow compared to impatient Wiki folk (kidding only a bit, it takes time to write something well, as you all know). IMO it's already better than some FAs I've read. KP Botany 20:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the input; it has been really helpful, encouraging debate is always a good thing. cheers Cas Liber 21:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Let's see if you still say that after I post 25kb of comments? Cheers, KP Botany 21:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
In the immortal words of Kirsten Dunst, "Bring it on".....hee hee Cas Liber 05:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
OK then, if people reckon we can get over the FA line, I'll nominate now. Cas Liber 04:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

descriptive note

i'm not a member of the Wiki Dino project, but i noticed this article's nomination. i find it akward that there is a descriptive note inside the pronunciation article. so if there's no objection in a couple of days, i'll remove it. thanks and more power. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rebskii (talk • contribs) 18:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

i also wanted to know why the species section of the taxobox is blank. can anyone educate me on this matter? --RebSkii 18:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
This article is about the genus "Diplodocus" not about a single species of this genus. The article lists various valid species of Diplodocus in the text, in a section about the various species, including Diplodocus longus, D. carnegiei, D. hayi, and D. hallorum. The taxobox only contains information to the taxon level that the article is about. As this is about the genus, it stops at the level genus. Articles on the various species will have the species name listed in the taxobox. I'm not sure that this is what you are asking, rather than asking why the species aren't just listed in the taxobox. I suppose the various species could be added to the taxobox, as it is a short list. KP Botany 20:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
then so, if that's the case, instead of leaving it blank, it should be filled out properly like, a dash, none or NA whichever is applicable.--RebSkii 07:15, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
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