Welcome to Firsfron's talk page

Messages here

YGM ;^)

Lovely header by WCQuidditch

RE: disambig WBXI

Well, I do try to fix links whenever possible, which is why I did it. Thank you for the compliment! (And, yes, you're welcome.) --WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 23:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for the trust that you had in me when you supported my Request for Adminship. The nomination ended successfully and I am actually overwhelmed by the support that I received. Thanks again! -- Kim van der Linde 06:21, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Ceratopia

Aha, i thought I'd nabbed all those pesky Ceratopia...........;)Cas Liber 08:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Dinosaurs

I'm not exactly back yet, but I've been dipping in when I have the time. My exams finish in a few weeks, after which I'll be a free agent for the summer. I check by the dinosaur list occasionally and progress looks excellent, I hope I'll be contributing more actively soon. Soo 10:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Gawks

Well I know I saw a comment re your long talk page - but then this? well done on a facelift! SatuSuro 12:35, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

West Coast Tasmania

Please do not run your AWB exercise on this art, I am getting bored reverting the removal of the stub. It is making an article an orphan unnecessarily! It would be more creative to let one of the editors doing tasmania articles... thanks SatuSuro 09:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Guidance please

Hi, you seem to have the answer to most of these clever tricks, within WP. Is there a quick way to check what edits have been added to the CD-list dinosaurs, since my run-through and your sweeping up? I expect you've been monitoring pretty closely, anyway. Is it something AutoWikiBrowser can handle? I have started going through the first few, individually (& laboriously), only to find nothing of concern. However, better to be safe than sorry ....... - Ballista 18:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - that sorts it - yes, I'm sorry I did know about the Watchlist - it's just that I haven't seen much going thru' for those particular ones and didn't trust myself not to have missed something - I guess I was just looking for a kinky bit of software or something, to do my job for me - oh well ... - Ballista 04:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Wrong site? - Oh shucks! - Ballista 10:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for making those corrections on the SOPHIA (vehicle) page. Your work is much appreciated. I learn more and more everday on how to write and maintain good articles here on Misplaced Pages, and it's people like you that make it fun, and easy to achieve that everyday goal! Thanks! Hucz 19:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Esperanza!

Now that you are a member, you might be interested in some of our programs. A quite important program is the StressUnit, which seeks to support editors who have encountered any stress from their Misplaced Pages events, and are seeking to leave the project. So far, Esperanza can be credited with the support and retention of several users. We have a calendar of special events, member birthdays, and other holidays that you can add to and follow.

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If you have any other questions, concerns, comments, or general ideas, Esperanzian or otherwise, know that you can always contact me by my talk page, Celestianpower by email or talk page, or the Esperanza talk page. Alternatively, you could communicate with fellow users on our IRC channel, #wikipedia-esperanza (which is also good for a fun chat or two :). If you're new to IRC, please see the IRC Tutorial, which was written by one of our members. I thank you for joining Esperanza, and look forward to working with you in making Misplaced Pages a better place to be!

I'm sorry

When I looked it up, that was the correct spelling. Maybe my sources weren't 100% correct or something. Thanks for fixing that and giving me a heads up. Later. Mr. Turcotte 00:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

CoolKatt number 99999

I've noticed you have left the same message for me twice regarding labeling other's work here as "vandalism". I don't know if you've been following this saga, but the root of the problem is CoolKatt number 99999 himself.

He is a poor editor. He wastes much precious space on Misplaced Pages with these fictional pages, and he can't accept criticism in the real world. He believes that anyone who changes his work violates WP:OWN, anyone who constantly questions him (or taunts him, as he would have you believe) violates WP:STALK, and he has been very uncivil to me and others. He is currently waging a personal war against me for re-reverting some of his vandalism (which, he says violates WP:POINT). Some examples: Here is some recent evidence:

• Group W: CoolKatt's revision / CoolKatt's revision
• WPSG: CoolKatt's revision
• He has also made numerous revertions to {{Springfield MA TV}}, despite the fact that the inclusion of out-of-market stations in templates is still being debated. He has ignored the pleas of others to stop changing this template, as well as his adding of Philadelphia television stations onto the {{Susquehanna Valley TV}} template.

He has complaints logged against him on Requests for comment/CoolKatt number 99999. He is on a personal ego trip and he needs to be put back in his place, and soon. Rollosmokes 08:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't bother to read this message. I correctly predicted when I wrote my message to you that you would not reform, and instead say, "Well, here's what he did". I don't care, and I'm again asking you not to violate wikipedia policy. The examples you've given are not examples of vandalism, so stop. Thanks in advance,--Firsfron of Ronchester 13:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Rollosmokes is the one that needs to be put in his place. I have just about had it with him, he's reverted my edits too many times, made threats against me, now he is labeling my edits as "vandalism." He is going too far. I am at my rope's end, and I am getting very close to filing an RfC against him. I've asked him to stop many times, and he does not listen. He's been uncivil to other users too, such as User:David Levy. I have had it with him. Please help me, I can't take anymore from him. CoolKatt number 99999 10:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Firsfron, if you didn't bother to even read my message, then why did you leave me one on my talk page, including the same sentence TWICE asking me to "stop labelling others' work on Misplaced Pages as vandalism"? What is the point of you getting involved in this dispute if all you were going to do is back up CoolKatt?

If you couldn't give me the courtesy of explaining my side to you, then I will not give you the courtesy of following your suggestion. CoolKatt IS A PROBLEM USER, and I will continue to do whatever I have to do until HE GETS THE MESSAGE. And since you're not an administrator, I'll look for one who will listen to all sides with neutrality. Rollosmokes 16:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Firsfron, if you didn't bother to even read my message, then why did you leave me one on my talk page,

You misunderstand me. I didn't bother to read the message you left for me on MY talk page, because all it was was "Well, he did this", in response to me asking you NOT to call other editor's work "vandalism. Vandalism is NOT what CoolKatt has done.

including the same sentence TWICE asking me

No, one was for CoolKatt, and was written under his sentence, not yours.

to "stop labelling others' work on Misplaced Pages as vandalism"? What is the point of you getting involved in this dispute if all you were going to do is back up CoolKatt?

I'm not backing up CoolKatt, as I left the same message for him on his page. Check for yourself. I am only "getting involved" to the extent that what both you and CoolKatt are doing is violating WP policy. In your edit summaries, you write that you are "reverting vandalism". You are doing no such thing. You are in fact reverting the work of another editor. Whether I agree with it or not is one thing, but you cannot continue to put the word 'vandalism' in your edit summaries when it is clearly not vandalism. I have asked you now twice to please stop doing so. Thanks in advance, --Firsfron of Ronchester 17:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I just caught Rollosmokes reverting my edits again. I need help, if he continues this behavior, then I will have to go to RfC. He even labeled edits on WPHL-TV as "vandalism" when he was told to stop. CoolKatt number 99999 17:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, CoolKatt has done it: He's filed a pretty-much one-sided Request for Comment against me. I've never been so scared in my life!! Rollosmokes 17:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Admin coaching

Hi Firsfron. As far as I know, the admin coaching program isn't really doing much. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but there seems to be a lack of organization or something. Anyway, I'd love to be your admin coach! How would you like to proceed? Do you ever get on IRC? I'm in the Esperanza room fairly often. --Fang Aili 13:39, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering if you got my email. No rush, just curious. --Fang Aili 21:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

DYK

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Help with AutoWikiBrowser

Hello - I've fallen prey to pedantry/obsession, here, with the fact that most Greek derivations of dinos are linked to 'Greek language' instead of 'Ancient Greek'. I started sorting them but it would be a life's work, to check them all manually. I haven't done enough with AWB to be able to enlist its help. Can you help me to do so (assuming you agree with my proposition in the first place!)? By the way, just peeped at your SuggestBot list (I had one today as well) and wondered how you managed not to receive any dino suggestions :-) ??? - Ballista 05:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll give it a go & see if I'm up to it! - Good point ref. dinos on SuggestBot - I haven't checked back but I think I only got a couple of dino relevant ones on mine. I have by no means worked on them all, so SuggestBot must be pretty happy with them! - Ballista 07:45, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for latest - that looks to be more within my capability! - Ballista 08:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're right - I did quite a few articles that way myself, earlier on this afternoon, using dinosaur + Greek - however, the refinement you suggest will speed it all up, i.e. "find 'greek'" will improve the whole process! Thanks as ever - Ballista 18:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

AWARD!

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		for someone who has gone that extra mile, to help mop the troubled brows of two much-valued editors - Ballista 07:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

test templates for vandals

you were asking about using the generic test templates for vandalizing users on the rc patroller talk page. obviously, you can do whatever floats yr boat, but my opinion is that -n versions of the test templates are much better. they allow you to include the name of the article in question and i think thats important because it allows users to contest a revert if they so desire and it allows people to see patterns on talk pages. anyway, i have a small toolbox of warnings at {{User: Frymaster/Warnings}} that i use when i'm working with popups. you may find it useful.frymaster 15:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:TVS

I have only been part of the project since June 3. I'm still more than happy to be involved and contribute to anything related to the project, but the thing is, the reason you gave me is pretty my why I'm leaving (for now, at least). I will most definetly reconsider, but I do need a few weeks to see how most of these problems and disputes get worked out. In all seriousness however, I do appreciate and thank you for your concern. —Whomp  03:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Image review/comment

Thanx for reliable & prompt response, as ever! Yes, I fully expected the comments on background and didn't realise I could do anything about it. I have Photoshop 7.0, I think, but have never used it - any tips welcomed. I'll have a go at it, myself, while you're 'off air'. Heaven knows why I saw fit to cut off Utahraptor's tail! Megadangerous trick in real life, I would imagine. I can crop the Utahraptor foot. I'll put up the other 'Tyranno' & 'Edmonto' stuff!, when I get time, so you can take a critical look (I had real problems selecting one of the 'Edmonto' shots, as they all suffer similar problems, which you have kindly neglected to 'rub in'). Yes, 'Pachy' is the real thing - lazy caption. Don't know why I goofed on the spelling of Coelacanth. One day, I'll try to get better shots of 'Tyranno' skeleton & Iguanodon's 'hand'. Thanx again for your help. - Ballista 08:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, that would be marvellous (cool, mega, awesome - tick as required), if you could 'edit' and have a general fiddle with the photos. Where would you like me to post them, and the other ones that I promised I'd show you? (Make it something easy to execute, as I'm spending just a little too much time on this, as one does when wiki-addicted!). I use Image Shack, if that's of any value? I have already cropped the 'Utah' foot, so I'll upload that soon. I also have a couple of Cetiosaur bones ...

The dino eggs are unspecified - notice board said: from Henan Province in Central China - Lower Cretaceous - possibly Hadrosaur or Sauropod.

Yes, would obviously like to see comment from the others - however, surprisingly quiet from Sheepy, just now?? - Ballista 08:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Four more images added to the same page, for comment/review. - Ballista 09:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

In answer to your question, which I overlooked, they're only on English Misplaced Pages, at the moment. I do want you to edit the pics, if you have the time. My efforts could only be amateur at best. Can you edit off Misplaced Pages or should I post the relevant ones, plus a few 'extras, on some image storage site (e.g. Image Shack) or does Wikimedia Commons do it for you? - Ballista 10:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Further question: sorry to lean on you like this but ignorance is my excuse. I have now altered the palaeontologist photos but I do not know which licence to use - I took the photos but the actual images are not mine, of course! Confused! - Ballista 11:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

You're a good man, Firsfron! Go for it! I wonder why we have such resounding silence from the rest of the Project - is it time differences? - Ballista 20:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, Dinoguy did leave a few messages on your image page. I expect Sheep will surface in the next day or two. And I'm sure eventually one or two others may pop up. It's the weekend, and some may be off enjoying it. I've noticed Mondays seem to be when the project is most active.--Firsfron of Ronchester 20:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right - impatience will get us nowhere - I somehow missed Dinoguy's comments, although I now see it clear as day on my 'watchlist'. I've now responded. Thanks for drawing attention to it. I look forward to seeing your changes - Ballista 21:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Dilophosaurus sketch

Hi there, I'm very aware that nowadays theropods should be depicted with stiffened tails. That sketch, together with some others, was one I made as a kid back in 1995 or so when it was still not so uncommon to show "swingy" tails. I looked for these sketches in our dusty attic this morning as I noticed that is a lack of dinosaur drawings, so I thought they might be of use. I have a lot of other drawings too including Protoceratops, Iguanodon and other hadrosaurids, but I only uploaded these, because the others are reproductions of copyrighted images.

About the dilophosaurus: I think that old views of dinosaurs like the sluggish or swamp ones have their historical value too. And so are those with flexed theropod tails. As these are old views, I understand the current guidelines, but as I haven't drawn dinosaurs in years, reworking it to a second version will probably be not something for the near future. In the meantime, the description of the sketch is: Sketch of a dilophosaurus in late 20th century vision. Recent evidence indicates that theropods had greatly stiffened tails, while the picture shows an animal whose tail could perhaps have been tied in knots., so if the drawing is used in other wiki's, it is noted that the image pose is outdated.

By the way, your Doei! would be completely right if I was from the Netherlands. However, I am a Belgian and as most of the Belgians I too speak Dutch, that differs a little bit from the Dutch in the Netherlands. We never use doei! as it sounds weird or funny. We use words ranging from groetjes, groeten, tot later to tot ziens :) Good luck with the project! Cheers, Tbc2 19:56, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!!!

Thanks for the barnstar, Firsfron! Nice to see my work is appreciated. Jerkov 21:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

- ditto :) Cas Liber 22:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Firsfron!

What wonderful surprise, first thing Sunday morning! What a pleasant first wikijob today, to send you my thanks and to express my surprise (well, second, actually; as I'm only human, I copied the Barnstar to my Userpage first!). I'm away for the weekend and borrowing a computer, so not much wikiwork today, I'm afraid - Ballista 07:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Images

You wrote: You mentioned on the image page other images of Pachycephalosaurus and Edmontosaurus, and manus images of T-rex. Any chance you might add these to your image page? I think the full-length Ed, the Ed head, and the skull of Pachy are quite useable, but wonder if perhaps there aren't other pictures, particularly in the case of Pachy, with which we might supplement the articles. In other words, "more, please!" :) --Firsfron of Ronchester 19:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• The manus image of T. rex was the one you didn't like (any more than I did!). The Pachy ones are just more of the same - I think I picked the best to show - there's no mounted skeleton there, as there's none on display. I can upload quite few more 'Ed' shots - I took lots as I felt my photography wasn't doing justice to the subject material - I can upload those, if you think I should, or I could post them somewhere else, for viewing. Anyway, I've resolved to go and have another go, soon. I'll try to remedy some of the errors (e.g. Utah's tail!) (e.g. T. rex's manus and full skeleton - the latter limited by its size, in a small place) but I doubt I can improve on the Pachy shot .... - Ballista 07:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Hi - seen your Velociraptor photo editing - looking good so far, thanks. I've put fuller comment up on my photo page. I hadn't been driven back to the museum by your comments; I had already decided to have another go, as a result of the few really disappointing shots, so no misunderstanding there, thanks. - Ballista 04:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Yep, I'm back until October. Nice to be noticed. The dinoproject seems to have been ticking over impressively in my absence. Keep up the good work! Soo 11:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

'spare' photo uploads

Hi - I've uploaded 10 more shots, to see if your expert eye can pick out any that might be better than those I had selected. That's my lot, for now! - Ballista 05:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for 'immediate' feedback - you're sooo positive, it's great to work with you. Did you see my comment above, in last but one thread, ref. your editing of Velociraptor shot? - Ballista 05:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandal revert

Thanks for the revert on my user page. I'm not sure I would have even caught it, at least not right away. --Firsfron of Ronchester 06:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem. The vandal is now temporarily blocked for this and other vandal attacks. Let's hope that they either reform or go elsewhere.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  06:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

New pics from Dorset

I've uploaded four pics, from the Charmouth Heritage Coast Centre - please find on User:Ballista/images/Charmouth Heritage Coast Centre June 2006 - I hope you can brighten the Sceli skelington & edit out distracting objects? Do we want the others, anywhere? The Ichyosaurus is quite good but not a dino! - Ballista 19:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• Amazing work - I had seen the mods to the 'old' photos (are they really old already?) and only a few minutes ago had left my response/appreciation - not yet looked at the 'Charmouth' page but shall do so as soon as I've ploughed thru' my 'watchlist'!. Thanks for all your help - when do we start uploading? Any news of Sheep? - Ballista 04:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Now studied all the mods - looking great - really cool that extraction of Velo's head - actually, on mature reflection, probably less dodgy amputating the head, as that would tend to pre-empt retaliation! I NOW really regret not getting a close-up of Sceli's horn stump, at the Charmouth Centre - it looked great on the mounted specimen - any chance of a worthwhile edit to show that? Anyway, I feel a bit handicapped, as my 'zoom' button has disappeared from my camera, necessitating prodding deeply with a wooden toothpick to change the zoom setting - that's a little coarse, to say the least & it's not possible to monitor the adjustment as you do it. Oh well .... - Ballista 04:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
  • P.S.: I've credited the edits to you, on all the modified images. If you agree that format, can you add it to any others you do, in case I forget to catch them all?
• Good point - forgotten to notify the group about the Dorset shots - shall do so as soon as I can - yes, I'll probably get around to uploading stuff to Commons & to articles, once we've finalised what's staying 'as is' & once all the demon editing is done. However, if you want to draw up a definitive list of what's suitable and ready, they can go up anytime now. The 'horn stump' is on Sceli's head (being a bit of a cattle man, myself, I'm thinking cattle here, so just naturally assumed all horns were on the head, which they're definitely not in the case of some dinos). As for the crediting - what a crock of bullshit (no English equivalent for that!) - of course credit where it's due & my eternal thanks. - Ballista 07:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• OK thanks - probably not today, now (but might just possibly happen tonight) - if I put them in the wrong slots in the articles, you'll have to politely let me know where to stick 'em! - Ballista 08:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hi - I took a look at a zoom pic of Scelido and it was a horn stump that I saw - however, the picture is of too poor quality to take that magnification - as I said, I should have done a zoom at the time! Oh well .... I'll be down there again, before the year is out. - Ballista 16:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Question

I've replied to your question on voting on the dinosaur collaboration talk page. Hope it helps... Spawn Man 01:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

More images

Hi - I managed to peel off my rounds, today, and made another museum raid User:Ballista/images/OUMNH2. As a result, I've been fiddling with new photos instead of uploading to articles. Armed with camera (and toothpick) and knowing the lie of the land better, I knew what to expect, this time. I hope I've made some improvements - still a problem with T. rex forelimbs, tho', as they were so high up I could have done with asking for a ladder! I decided not to admit defeat with Velociraptor, see what you think. Feel free to edit some/any/all, if you wish. I'll need some help in making a list of what to upload, now, as I've done more duplicates. I'll put a note up on the Image Review page, too. - Ballista 00:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for comments - quick off the mark as usual - I'm way past bedtime, now, so calling it a night. Tomorrow's another day. - Ballista 00:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I've tidied/sorted the image upload pages - too late to help you to navigate round them but never mind. Any idea how many more (which ones) you still wish to edit before upload? - Ballista 07:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for message - I am sorry to have messed you about but the second batch does seem to be an improvement on the previous lot, by & large. I had thought they all went up last night, but I was VERY tired after a long day, so I probably made a mess of the formatting etc. I've started doing a bit of uploading into articles. I'll leave any I think you might be editing, as I have plenty to be getting on with! I'll take a look at what I thought was a cute horn stump, on Scelidosaurus, when I was in that Centre - may have been wrong - I'll zoom in on it when I get a chance & see what (if anything) I'm on about! Thanks for all the encouragement. - Ballista 16:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S.: Ref. Megalosaurus display, I had to use flash on that segment of the cabinet - it dawned on me that we didn't need the whole cabinet but, if you think we do, we might have to use both images or use your skills to lighten that upper corner. - Ballista 16:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Welcome back

I'm not really back as I won't have cable until at least Wednesday. Also, my email is already activated as far as I know. Sheep81 08:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I have my cable back now (finally... thank you Cox Communications for finally sending your one technician who apparently knows what he is doing). Plus I guess I entered my email but forgot to enable others to email me, but that is fixed now. Email away.Sheep81 02:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Casliber's uploads

Here is a copy of the message I've just sent to Cas (just to keep you up-to-date) "Thanks, Cas, for the uploads - yes, they do brighten the relevant pages a bit. However, I'd go for Firsfron's whizz edit of the Scelidosaurus, in preference to the original - what do you reckon? It's brighter and distractions have been removed. - Ballista 09:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)". I think I'd better start some uploads, as soon as I can find the time ..... (however, see prev. message from me above.) - Ballista 09:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

ref. uploads

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments on the 'new' page - very much to the point as ever. Yes, you said you trusted my judgement and now I blew it! I took a chance on Utahraptor, as Dinoguy seemed kinda resigned about the anatomical failing & there was no pic up there. We'll have to see what storm blows up now. - Ballista 16:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

GREAT JOB on Cetiosaurus layout - I look fwd to future demon image-editing. - Ballista 19:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Remove uploaded ones? Can do - yes, I see the point - may be not tonight, but I'll try. Sorry to disappoint but there are no more pics in hiding! - Ballista 20:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Run out of steam tonight - more fun tomorrow - all three image pages 'shrunk'. I want to do stuff with the Ichthyo pics and the Edmonto/Tyranno pelvis shots could be useful to illustrate the definition of dinosaurs paragraph in Dinosaur, quite apart from perhaps being on their 'own' pages. - G'night & thanks for all the help - Ballista 21:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey man - sorry you got dragged into this. I awoke this morning to find a pile of stuff waiting to read. Thanks for your energy & for 'being there'. - Ballista 04:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This is on my page too, JSYK

You seem to have an extremely large nose, cause I see it sticking in all of my conversations, commenting on all of my thoughts. Beside the point, may I draw your attention to Exhibit A:

It can be really, really hard to see your contributions edited right back out of the encyclopedia, especially after spending a long time on them. You clearly have a lot of love for the project and for the subject. But part of what makes a great editor on WP is just knowing that nothing you write will ever last very long. It's always being re-written, it's always changing. It will never stay the same, and it's likely that in a few years' time, even everything Sheep has written will be totally changed. That's the nature of Wiki.

I think I've written something on close to every dinosaur article on WP. But several of my contributions (OK, a whole lot!) have been edited right back out by one editor or another, especially by the 'pro' editors. I don't think one word of my contributions to a few articles even remain. But we're here to build the best encyclopedia possible. That's the goal. So even though it's important to feel like you're contributing something, and clearly you are, just remember your edits may not last very long, may be completely re-written. It says below the edit screen "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly... do not submit it." We always have to keep that in mind, Spawn Man. Our writing is always going to be edited mercilessly, as long as we're on Misplaced Pages.

You indicated to Sheep that you feel you can't write any articles on dinosaurs because they will be rewritten. But that's what Misplaced Pages is all about. The key is just understanding that, shrugging it off, and moving on. We've got more than 1,000 articles in our category. There's about ten or twelve serious editors on our project, which averages out to about 100 articles per editor. That means there's plenty of space for all of us: you, me, Sheep, everyone. Right now, there are 200 extremely short articles that can easily be expanded by anyone, even someone who is not a pro, as long as he considers that everything will eventually be re-written.

I hope this somehow makes you feel a little better. I hope you'll be bold and again start writing dinosaur articles. Good editors are sorely needed on our project, and I know you love the subject. :)

In peace, --Firsfron of Ronchester 05:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Me thinks you have forgotten that all work will be edited mercilessly, regardless of whether a little peace talk was discussed & signed prior. The images were bad. Presenting Group Exhibit B:

It seems that they are all exceptional photographs, aren't they? Hands up who agrees? Nobody? Hmmm, I guess I was right that yes the ones I removed were badly lit & out of focus &/or a double of an exsisting photo. Not only that but look how they Ballista's pics were placed in the Velociraptor article, Exhibit C:

Description

Velociraptor was small for a dromaeosaurid. It had a skull length of 249 mm (9.80 in), a total length of 1.8 m (6 ft), a total height of 0.8 m (2.5 feet), a hip height of 0.5 m (1 ft 8 in) and a weight of 20 kg (45 lb).

The tail was stiffened, being held rigidly behind the body by a series of ossified (bony) tendons . The tail was stiffened, being held rigidly behind the body by a series of ossified (bony) tendons .

Unlike most theropod dinosaurs, which had three functional toes on the hindlimb, dromaeosaurs like Velociraptor walked on only their third and fourth digits. The first digit, as in other theropods, was a small dewclaw. The second digit was highly modified and held retracted off of the ground. It bore a relatively large, sickle-shaped claw, typical of dromaeosaurid and troodontid dinosaurs.

The above caption is exactly how Ballista left it, all 3 large photos in one section along one side. Now this isn't a new article, this article has been to a collaboration & is now on FAC! I had, & have, every right to talk to Ballista about his photo skills. How dare you come here & start berating me because you discussed the descisions prior. Spawn Man 00:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

WEll it would be relavent if I could find the page which discusses this or if I was actually involved with the talks. If you don't like the way I operate myself then don't go poking around things which weren't even being discussed with you. No I don't treat people nicely. Now that that that's out of the way. I wasn't saying Ballista was responsible for all of the pictures, I was merely talking openly about some of his pictures. I didn't even present the pictures Ballista didn't take to him, only as an example to you of the pictures I deleted. This is because there were 2 different topics, both of which you confused together & misinformed. Topic 1, Me deleting some of Ballista's pics &/or moving them & his pic placement. Topic 2, Me deleting photos from other people. You came over & accused me of deleting other's hard work, both Ballista's & others. So I merely showed you all photos I deleted, not just Ballista's. It is you Firsfron of Manchester that was misinformed. If you have a problem with me editing, so sue me, (not litterally, as the phrase, so don't go harrassing me with no legal threats either) .... Spawn Man 01:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you please explain to me how the following letter was rude? I was only rude & uncivil when you butted your nose in.

I know you really enjoy editing & uploading photos onto dinosaur articles, but some care must be taken! Some of your photos are out of focus/in bad light/irrelevant (choose 1 or more). Other times, you just place them in the most akward locations, such as all in one section. Take some care to carefully plan out where they will go or where they will fit. Don't just plonk them anyhere k? The ones which aren't that good, don't put them in. Think of it like a piece of cake. You've just eaten a buffet meal & you're sooo full. But everyone else is eating cake, so you want some. You don't need it, but just cause it's there you eat it. Or think of a bad picture as a toy you never use. You never use the toy, so your mum wants you to throw it out. You plead that you do play with it, but you never do. If a picture is bad or is overcrowding the text, throw it away or don't use it. It will save everyone time & overall, make the article ten times better. This was a friendly reminder from your friendly neighbourhood Spawn Man! Thanks, Spawn Man 00:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC). P.S. Kids, eat your veges!

It isn't very rude is it? No.

WEll it would be relavent if I could find the page which discusses this or if I was actually involved with the talks.

The image review page is linked to WikiProject Dinosaur's talk page. No one can force you to notice the link. We discussed it; it's up to you to read the relevant discussions.

I didn't read the link because I couldn't find it.

If you don't like the way I operate myself then don't go poking around things which weren't even being discussed with you.

The images affect me, as I'm part of the team that helped decide they should go up. The work of one editor (you) does not supercede the work of the rest of the team.

I never was referring to that. I was merely asking Ballista about his pic placement & photo quality.

No I don't treat people nicely.

I wish you'd follow WikiPolicy, Spawn Man. It makes it a lot easier to collaborate with people if they're willing to be civil.

Now that that that's out of the way.

It's not out of the way, and as long as you treat people poorly, you will get poor results.

I care why?

I wasn't saying Ballista was responsible for all of the pictures, I was merely talking openly about some of his pictures. I didn't even present the pictures Ballista didn't take to him, only as an example to you of the pictures I deleted. This is because there were 2 different topics, both of which you confused together & misinformed.

I read your message several times, and am not misinformed. You told him the pictures he added were out of focus, irrelevant, or duplicates. They were no such thing. You didn't check the edit histories, which would have shown you which pictures he added.

I'm not an idiot like you Firsfron of Ipswich. I did check the edit histories & I did know that most of the photos weren't Bastilla's as they were there long before he started editing!

Topic 1, Me deleting some of Ballista's pics &/or moving them & his pic placement.

The pictures he placed met with the general apporval of the group. You either chose to ignore the discussion, or didn't know about the discussion because you didn't read the talk pages closely. Neither is the fault of the group, and Ballista didn't deserve the message you left him, which was both incorrect and rude.

I didn't read the talk pages closely enough because my mother was in hospital. Unlike you Firsfron of Nottingham, I have a life & don't spend all day searching out links to absent discussions.

Topic 2, Me deleting photos from other people.

You never mentioned it earlier. I'm telling you now that the message you left for Ballista says NOTHING about removing other people's photos. It was only after I TOLD you the photos you removed were mainly not even his, that you have changed your story. This does not match your earlier messages, either of them.

My letter to Ballista had nothing to do with other people's photos being deleted. I only showed you them because I wanted to show that the pics I deleted were of overall poor quality, not just his.

You came over & accused me of deleting other's hard work, both Ballista's & others. So I merely showed you all photos I deleted, not just Ballista's.

That's not what either of your messages say.

???.

It is you Firsfron of Manchester that was misinformed.

Only by your own messages.

Again, ???.

If you have a problem with me editing, so sue me, (not litterally, as the phrase, so don't go harrassing me with no legal threats either) .... Spawn Man 01:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with you editing. I have a problem with you leaving rude, uninformed messages for people who are trying to edit.

--Firsfron of Ronchester 01:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I was informed, I was curteous to Bastilla. If you have a problem with me editing other's edits, then you should read the sign on the bottom of the page. Spawn Man 02:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Here it goes....

On the Velociraptor article, it has been requested that this article be removed in the article's FAC. However, I think it is a highly needed picture. Is there any way you could photoshop out the glass exhibit line going through the picture & lighten it up significantly? It would save the picture & get velociraptor featured... Ballista told me you'd do it, but I doubt that... Anyway, thought I'd give it a shot, it will need doing eventually anyway.... Thanks, Spawn Man 04:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC). P.S. I'd do it, but I don't have photoshop..

Don't think we're cool. We're only working towards a common goal... Anyway, I don't care when it's done, as long as it's finished at least 4 days before the velociraptor FAC closes... Thanks, Spawn Man 05:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Misplaced Pages:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Firsfron! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. —Xyrael _{/ 11:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)} 11:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Velociraptor

No problem, glad to have helped. It's one of the most important dino articles, so it's important that it's an FA. Soo 01:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

1. ^ Norell, M.A. and Makovicky, P.J. (1999). "Important features of the dromaeosaurid skeleton II: information from newly collected specimens of Velociraptor mongoliensis." American Museum Novitates, 3282: 45 pp., 27 figs.; (American Museum of Natural History) New York. (12.8.1999).