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This page exists to discuss and develop a standard for how to treat alternate names for towns that fit in the jurisdiction of the WikiProject Cities. This page exists to develop a standard for how to treat alternate names for towns covered by ]. It aims primarily to establish guidelines for articles on towns, but secondarily also for references to towns. Relevant discussion is carried out at ].


Naming issues, i.e. how to name articles on towns, is however covered by ].
Background/need: Many international cities have histories that include belonging to a different state in modern history (last few centuries) than to the one in which they now belong. For example, Poland was divided between Germany, Austria and Russia for most of the time between the late 1700s and the end of World War One. Many of the towns had official names during that period that were the spellings of the occupying nations, not the native ones that are now the official names of the restored Polish nation, which are the names used in the article titles, and in the articles themselves. Yet many Wikipedians believe that the former official name is important enough to receive some kind of mention in the introductory paragraph. To attempt to diminish the constant edit wars that fill the Talk pages of each of these articles, this forum has been created to bring the discussion to a single spot and to do it within the context of a project.

] does not yet mention the analogous problem, and ] does not yet exist, why this standard is better developed with an analogous standard for lakes and rivers in mind.

;Background/need:
Many international cities have a recent history (i.e. of the last few centuries) of belonging to a different ] and/or ] than to the one in which they are now a part. For example, what is now Poland was divided between various German states, Austria-Hungary, and the Russian Empire for most of the time between the late 1700s and the end of World War One. Many towns have had official names that were either ]s or translations to the language of the governing nation, or totally different names than the names used by natives.

There is often a difference in opinions on how or if these alternates should be mentioned in the introductory paragraph, and many ] have erupted, which this standard attempts to prevent and to limit.


== Scope == == Scope ==
Line 9: Line 16:
* Poland (restored after "partitioning"): 1790s to WWI (mostly) Polish towns had alternate names given by the occupying states of Germany, Austria and Russia * Poland (restored after "partitioning"): 1790s to WWI (mostly) Polish towns had alternate names given by the occupying states of Germany, Austria and Russia


* Borders changed in aftermath of WWII: Districts that are now in states that they weren't in for much of modern history (eg: Szczecin, Gdansk) * Borders changed in aftermath of WWII: Districts that are now in states that they weren't in for much of modern history (e.g.: Szczecin, Gdansk)


* Independance from USSR (any places that USSR changed town names that were restored after 1990?) * Independence from USSR (any places that USSR changed town names that were restored after 1990?)


* Borders changed in the aftermath of World War I (aside from Polish issues) - the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in particular. Also the independence of the Baltic states and Finland, and border changes along Germany's western and northern borders. * Borders changed in the aftermath of World War I (aside from Polish issues) - the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in particular. Also the independence of the Baltic states and Finland, and border changes along Germany's western and northern borders.


* The break-up of the Ottoman Empire and its replacement by nation-states including Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Yugoslavia (and its successors), Albania, ...
⚫ * anther area/type of situation, etc

* Cities largely populated by linguistic/ethnic groups which never held political power, e.g. Yiddish-speaking Jews in some Eastern European cities; Aromanians in the Ottoman Empire and its successors.

* Colonial names (Port Arthur in China,

⚫ * another area/type of situation, etc.


=== By modern states === === By modern states ===

* Albania
⚫ ** Greek names (])
** Aromanian names (])


* Belarus * Belarus
** Russian names ** Russian names
** Polish names (], ], ] etc.)
⚫ ** Polish names

* China
** English names (])
⚫ ** Russian names (])
** Japanese names (])


* Croatia * Croatia
**German names (]) (??) ** German names (]) (??)
**Italian names (], ], ]) etc.) ** Italian names (], ], ] etc.)


* Czech Republic * Czech Republic
** Polish names (]) ** Polish names (], ] etc.)
** German names ** German names


Line 36: Line 58:


* Finland * Finland
**Swedish names (]) **Swedish names (], ]<!-- that was the closest to a capital Finland had before Helsinki was made capital-->)


* France * France
** German names (], ]) ** German names (], ])


* Germany * Germany
** Slavic names (]) ** Danish names (], ])
** Lusatian names ** Lusatian names
** Slavic names (] river)
** Sorbian names ** Sorbian names
** French names (], ], ]) ** French names (], ], ])

* Greece
** Aromanian names (], ])
** Italian names (])
** Ladino/Judeo-Spanish names (]), though really, we do not use much the Hebrew alphabet outside Israel and/or for non-religious purposes on top of it, so actually (]) would do fine!
** Rumanian/Romanian names (], ], ],...)
** Slavic (Macedonian/Bulgarian) names (], ], ],...)
** Turkish names (])

* Hungary
** German names (], ])

* Israel
** Rumanian/Romanian names (],...)


* Italy * Italy
** German names (], ]) ** German names (], ])


* Lithuania * Lithuania
** Polish names (], ], ] etc.)
⚫ ** Polish names
** German names (]) ** German names (])
** Belarussian names (])

* Macedonia (FYR)
** Albanian names (])
** Bulgarian names (])
** Greek names (])
** Serbian names (])
** (Ottoman) Turkish names (])


* Poland * Poland
** German names (], ], ], etc.) ** German names (], ], ], ] etc.)
** Czech names (]) ** Czech names (] etc.)
** Lithuanian names (]) ** Lithuanian names (])
** Local names (incl. Cassubian in ], ] and so on) ** Cassubian names (], ] etc.)
** Belarussian names (] versus ]) ** Belarussian names (] versus ])
** Ukrainian names (Peremyshl, Zheshuv...) ** Ukrainian names (] - ''Перемишль'', ] -''Жешув'')
** Rusyn names (]-Bogusha)


* Romania * Romania / Rumania
** Hungarian names (]) ** Hungarian names (])
** German (Saxon) names (], ],...))
** German names
** Ladino/Judeo-Spanish names (], ])
** Serbian names (])

* Russia
** Finnish, Swedish, German names (], ]/], Pähkinäsaari/]/Orechovets/Schlüsselburg)
** Russian names restored after the fall of ] (] vs Leningrad)


* Serbia and Montenegro * Serbia and Montenegro
** Italian names (])
**Hungarian names (not sure, but probably some in the Vojvodina)
** Hungarian names (])
** Romanian names (])


* Slovakia * Slovakia
Line 73: Line 127:
** Hungarian names (]) ** Hungarian names (])
** Polish names (Spisz, Orawa) ** Polish names (Spisz, Orawa)
** Ruthenian names (official in Eastern Slovakia)


* Slovenia * Slovenia
** German names (]) ** German names (])

* Turkey
** Armenian names (])
** Greek names (])
⚫ ** Laz/Georgian names
** Kurdish names (])
** Syriac names (])
** Arabic names (Hatay province)


* Ukraine * Ukraine
** Polish names (]) ** Crimean Tatar names (])
⚫ ** Ukrainian names (])
⚫ ** Russian names (])
** German names (]) ** German names (])
** Hungarian names (])
⚫ ** Polish names (])
** Rumanian/Romanian names (])
** Russian names (] < Львов)
** Turkish names (])
** Ukrainian names (] < Київ)
** Yiddish names (] < לעמבערג)


== Factors to consider for the standard == == Factors to consider for the standard ==
=== Intro paragraph ===
* 1: Is there a need to mention alternate names? * 1: Is there a need to mention alternate names?
* 2: If so, then how many? * 2: If so, then how many?
Line 89: Line 158:
* 4: Is there ever an "English" name for these places, or did English speakers pick one version over another? * 4: Is there ever an "English" name for these places, or did English speakers pick one version over another?
* 5: How should the standard wording be formatted? * 5: How should the standard wording be formatted?
* 6: Is the non-current name relevant to city's history (see ], a tiny village that had its official German name but became a city after it got back to Poland) * 6: What is the relevance test for former names? (see ], a tiny village that had its official German name but became a city after it got back to Poland)
* 7: Should a link to other alternate names be in intro paragraph?
* 8: Should there be criteria based on historical periods (e.g. only names used since Napoleon?), based on usage in the scholarly literature? based on importance of an ethnic group?

=== Rest of article ===
* 1: Should only one name be used throughout the article about a city or should it depend on historical period, and if so what would be the criteria?

Latest revision as of 18:57, 15 November 2020

This page exists to develop a standard for how to treat alternate names for towns covered by WikiProject Cities. It aims primarily to establish guidelines for articles on towns, but secondarily also for references to towns. Relevant discussion is carried out at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Cities/Names issues.

Naming issues, i.e. how to name articles on towns, is however covered by Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (city names).

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Rivers#Rivers with multiple names does not yet mention the analogous problem, and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lakes does not yet exist, why this standard is better developed with an analogous standard for lakes and rivers in mind.

Background/need

Many international cities have a recent history (i.e. of the last few centuries) of belonging to a different nation and/or state than to the one in which they are now a part. For example, what is now Poland was divided between various German states, Austria-Hungary, and the Russian Empire for most of the time between the late 1700s and the end of World War One. Many towns have had official names that were either transliterations or translations to the language of the governing nation, or totally different names than the names used by natives.

There is often a difference in opinions on how or if these alternates should be mentioned in the introductory paragraph, and many edit wars have erupted, which this standard attempts to prevent and to limit.

Scope

First order of business is to try to get an idea of the scope that should be included.

By situations

  • Poland (restored after "partitioning"): 1790s to WWI (mostly) Polish towns had alternate names given by the occupying states of Germany, Austria and Russia
  • Borders changed in aftermath of WWII: Districts that are now in states that they weren't in for much of modern history (e.g.: Szczecin, Gdansk)
  • Independence from USSR (any places that USSR changed town names that were restored after 1990?)
  • Borders changed in the aftermath of World War I (aside from Polish issues) - the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in particular. Also the independence of the Baltic states and Finland, and border changes along Germany's western and northern borders.
  • The break-up of the Ottoman Empire and its replacement by nation-states including Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Yugoslavia (and its successors), Albania, ...
  • Cities largely populated by linguistic/ethnic groups which never held political power, e.g. Yiddish-speaking Jews in some Eastern European cities; Aromanians in the Ottoman Empire and its successors.
  • Colonial names (Port Arthur in China,
  • another area/type of situation, etc.

By modern states

  • Israel
  • Slovakia
    • German names (Pressburg)
    • Hungarian names (Pozsony)
    • Polish names (Spisz, Orawa)
    • Ruthenian names (official in Eastern Slovakia)

Factors to consider for the standard

Intro paragraph

  • 1: Is there a need to mention alternate names?
  • 2: If so, then how many?
  • 3: If so, then which ones?
  • 4: Is there ever an "English" name for these places, or did English speakers pick one version over another?
  • 5: How should the standard wording be formatted?
  • 6: What is the relevance test for former names? (see Rumia, a tiny village that had its official German name but became a city after it got back to Poland)
  • 7: Should a link to other alternate names be in intro paragraph?
  • 8: Should there be criteria based on historical periods (e.g. only names used since Napoleon?), based on usage in the scholarly literature? based on importance of an ethnic group?

Rest of article

  • 1: Should only one name be used throughout the article about a city or should it depend on historical period, and if so what would be the criteria?