Talk:Ösel Tendzin - Misplaced Pages

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ösel Tendzin article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Buddhism Low‑importance

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Early comment

Concerning 01-May-2006 edits by 83.70.43.58 (who should get a proper login if ta wants to edit controversial subjects) -- 83.70.43.58 apparently felt that the report of miraculous phenomena amounted to an editorial favoring Tendzin, and wanted to counterbalance it. Sylvain1972 correctly removed the out-and-out editorializing posted by 83.70.43.58, who then removed the report of miraculous phenomena. The result at this point is a more neutral-sounding article. However, I find the fact that *someone* attributes classic "master yogi" phenomena to Tendzin's death, despite the disastrous AIDS saga, quite interesting. Reporting in the article that some people still believe this is worthwhile, I think - but I'd like to see a source attributed, rather than just starting with "...was said to..." Who said it, and on what basis? One does not have to believe the story to be interested in the meta-phenomenon of the way stories cluster around a departed religious figure. Bertport 14:21, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Two comments

Two comments about this sentence. "Tendzin admitted that he was responsible and said that Chögyam Trungpa had told him to keep his HIV a secret and that his tantric practice would prevent him passing the HIV infection onto his students."

1) Tendzin never admitted any responsibility. 2) The notion that Trungpa Rinpoche told Tendzin that he was somehow protected from transmitting HIV, comes from Tendzin himself. According to Tendzin, Chogyam Trungpa told him something to this effect privately. No one else heard Trungpa say this or anything of the kind. Trungpa Rinpoche, who was dead when Tendzin made this claim, was well-known for debunking the view that tantric practices made anyone exempt from the laws of cause and effect.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Walter Fordham (talk • contribs) .

One Comment

I was present at his cremation in Colorado (which was accompanied by multiple rainbows) and the reports of signs of after-death samadhi were being made by people who had just come from California where his body had lain in state. In fact before his body arrived we were informed by way of a public announcement that in order to move his body to the cremation site a ceremony had to be conducted to end the samadhi. This at least establishes that the reports were not developed subsequent to the period about which they refer. Incidentally, after-death samadhi is not regarded as particularly miraculous in the Tibetan tradition, it just does not accord with contemporary materialistic dogma. (Merlin Cox 01/09/2006)

Information about behavior re AIDS

While I am sure that at least some of this information is accurate, it needs to meet Misplaced Pages's verifiability policy. That is, we need to know where it has been written about and by whom. This should be done by citing the book or article from which the information was taken. Also, the description should be objective, not starting out from a subjective angle as was previously written, "Many in Trungpa's community (sangha) felt angry and betrayed". First describe and cite the events. Then describe and cite the reactions. That would be more encyclopedic. As it was written, it was not encyclopedic in tone and did not cite the sources where the facts could be verified. Therefore I have removed most of the material on the subtopic. GlassFET 16:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

A quotation, might be useful

"In December 1988, Tendzin admitted that he had been infected with the AIDS virus for three years, that he continued to have intercourse during that period, and that he neglected to inform and protect his partners ( Butler 1991 ). His justification? "Thinking I had some extraordinary means of protection," Tendzin was reported to have stated, "I went ahead with my business as if something would take care of it for me" ( Butler 1991, p.138 )"

This is taken from "Horror and the Holy" by Kirk J. Schneider ( p.124 ), the cited work is "Encountering the shadow in Buddhist America.", by K. Butler, which appears in "Meeting the shadow: The hidden power of the dark side of human nature" ( edited by C. Zweig and J. Abrams, Tarcher Publishing ). I don't have this second book, so I cannot verify the quotations. I'm sorry I don't know how to cite these correctly. - 203.113.194.194 22:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The man was more than an AIDS carrier

The rest of his work, positive, negative, etc. has been eliminated. This article is just a politicized bashing of an amazing and flawed teacher. The authors should be ashamed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.35.151 (talk) 23:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I never knew him, but I've read some of his material and appreciated his writing. Perhaps you could add something? I refuse to be ashamed for *not* spending volunteer time and energy on any particular topic, but if you're feeling so inclined by all means please add to the article. I'm not sure personally what to add about him that's specifically notable: perhaps his life history would be good, how he became interested in Buddhism, his interest in Hinduism before that and who he studied with, the chronology of his role in Shambhala International, things like that probably? - Owlmonkey (talk) 23:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Now honestly, he wasn't just an AIDS carrier, he was much more: he was someone who deliberately infected his students with HIV, and then he tried to pin it on is teacher. Was he really such a wonderful Buddhist teacher, or is this article giving him an unduly easy time of it, given his disregard for the central Buddhist principle that the teacher has a duty to protect the student? Wasn't he really just a genuine charlatan who turned his teacher's school into a cult he ran for his own purposes, and got away with killing a few people on the way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.125.38 (talk) 04:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

He undoubtedly carried the HIV virus, and deliberately infected his students with HIV (and then blamed his teacher). But why is the true statement that he "died of AIDS" being changed to he "died of HIV"? Isn't the HIV virus the cause of AIDS? Isn't AIDS what people die from, whereas HIV was what Ösel Tendzin deliberately infected his students with? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.125.38 (talk) 04:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Mukpo

"According to Trungpa's wife Diana J. Mukpo recent biography ...": I couldn't find the allegations quoted in the Misplaced Pages article in the book by Mukpo. No page numbers were given in the footnote. Please give a correct quotation. --Babelfisch (talk) 02:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Osel Tendzin's Legacy

I am hoping that no one actually believes these stories. Each should be sued for libel. Even if and especially if they are true, they should not be put out on the internet to a gullible public. Obviously the man cannot defend himself and one should say nothing but good of the dead. Whatever he was, he was for real. This article makes wikipedia look bad. And don't ask me to support this site. It publishes hearsay. The controversy section should be deleted at once. It just makes a mockery of what his life was about and casts doubt on the authenticity of the lineage, which, believe me, is for real. Jigme123 (talk) 05:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Um cited materials, for example NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/26/weekinreview/headliners-a-church-s-turmoil.html Ogress _smash! 06:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

October 2016 edits

It appears that a lot of properly referenced material was removed, and replaced with a personal statement from a Tendzin enthusiast. I have reverted these changes. Bertport (talk) 23:13, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Ösel Tendzin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Categories: