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Revision as of 12:17, 5 August 2024 editScottishFinnishRadish (talk | contribs)Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators60,811 edits →Result concerning Givengo1: .02← Previous edit Revision as of 12:30, 5 August 2024 edit undoABHammad (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,702 edits →O.maximovNext edit →
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:@] ] ''']''' - 12:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC) :@] ] ''']''' - 12:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)==== ====Statement by ABHammad====
This is the second time this month I have seen Levivich doing what seems like a weaponization of this noticeboard against editors who do not share their point of view based on their politics (and they are unsuprisingly joined by others). Previously, they accused me and other editors of tag teaming—a very serious allegation—without providing substantial evidence. While I received a 0RR sanction (rightfully), their tag teaming allegations were dismissed. Going over the new allegations, I don't see anything close to a sanctionable violation of anything. It's all content disputes that can and should be solved through discussions. But, I don't see any attempt by Levivich to do so, nor did they even try to discuss the issues with O.maximov personally. And the above claims about 'previous consensus on this material' are clearly false (if anything is happening on ARBPIA right now is forced controversial changes that take place without any attempt to achieve consensus). I think it might be time to consider sanctions of the ] sort. ] (]) 12:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning O.maximov=== ===Result concerning O.maximov===

Revision as of 12:30, 5 August 2024

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    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by JoeJShmo

    JoeJShmo's appeal is declined. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    JoeJShmo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – JoeJShmo 23:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from the subject of Arab-Israel conflict for 6 months and 1000 edits, imposed at WP:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Results concerning JoeJShmo, logged at WP:Arbitration enforcement log#2024 (CT/A-I)
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator

    Statement by JoeJShmo

    I request the topic ban to be lifted.
    Background: An Arb request was opened with concerns on violating ARBPIA as a non EC editor. I explained at length in multiple discussions that I never violated the rules intentionally; I hadn't been clear on what exactly was not allowed (see my statements here, also see my responses on my talk page). Red-tailed hawk ended up giving me a topic ban until I reached EC, asserting that I don't seem to understand the restriction. I thought that assertion was off the mark, but I didn't appeal as I was about to hit EC. There was no gaming the system in hitting EC; every edit was either a part of productive discussion, or contributed to build Misplaced Pages. When I hit EC, I performed a bunch of edits that I had had in the back of my mind in the IAC topic, in what were good-faith contributions. Editors raised concerns with these edits at my talk page and at the Arb request, and shortly after, ScottishFinnishRadish enforced a 6 month 1000 edit ban. Their reasoning reads: "...sanctioned for lack of understanding of WP:PAGS, NPOV issues, and a technical 1RR."
    The edits in question are edits to the War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war article. My first edit was to remove a small subsection that I believed was in the wrong section. I do realize now that I could have opened a discussion first, or moved it to where I thought it should go instead of just deleting it. That was a mistake on my part. My second edit was adding context to a human shield instance. I believe that edit was fully warranted; the only source for the incident was the shopkeeper himself (from the video alone it could've been explained as a detainment), who is quoted in the sources as saying he was used to deter stone throwing. Even if there would've been room to disagree, I cannot see this as an example of violating NPOV or PAGS. My third edit I believe similarly warranted, and I didn't realize it would need a discussion, though I learned quickly that more things than usual need discussions in this topic area. However, this does not reflect a lack of understanding and adherence in the above policies. My fourth edit mostly falls in the same boat as the third, as I didn't realize anyone was reverting until I had complete my edits. However, also in the fourth edit, I made a mistake in changing a word from 'stated' to 'claimed'; see the following discussion on my talk page, where a couple of editors helpfully informed me of the terms of the mistake, and I thanked them. This is the discussion SFR pointed me to to back his claims of a violation of NPOV (he stopped responding after we had exchanged a couple messages). However, this doesn't reflect a lack of NPOV, as I actually made the different phrasings consistent with one another, per NPOV, although I now know I should have had both read 'stated' instead of 'claimed' per the discussion linked above. Part of my fourth edit, and my fifth edit, have not been challenged so far. As for 1RR: common practice is not to treat status quo edits as reverts. In this case, it had been nearly 6 months. See discussion here. I believe I've demonstrated in the past a pattern of mindfulness of NPOV, along with a willingness and desire, to accept new information and guidance. I do often seek clarification from editors on the exact problem they are raising, and it is possible that some may have misconstrued that as being 'argumentative'.
    In conclusion, I don't believe there's any evidence of POV or a lack of policy awareness to the point of justifying even a temporary topic ban. Some editors may believe I have been too hasty to edit, and I will be slowing down in the future, as I noted above. However, the concerns outlined by SFR do not exist.

    Note: The amount of edits counted towards EC that were violations of ECR is negligible, although there were plenty of discussion following the violations where I became better informed. I don't see why discussion wouldn't count towards EC, and even if that is the issue at hand (it isn't), a blanket EC status removal for ~100 edits would've been the answer, not what we have right now. A great majority of my edits have been completely unrelated. JoeJShmo 00:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
    I'd like to say one last thing. I realize I am getting too emotionally involved in this topic right now. Though I don't agree with the 6 month restriction, whatever happens, I'd like to voluntarily take a one month topic ban in the article pages (not discussion), and 100 edits. I'm not here for any one topic, and I enjoy other tasks far more; lately I've been working on making a template for a series of articles. I'd like to thank all the editors who gave me helpful advice so far in editing and following policy: DougWeller, Wordsmith, starship.paint, SFR and RTH (sorry if I missed anyone). As @DougWeller pointed out to me, I realize I can be passive aggressive when I'm under pressure. That's something I'm working on, and I hope to have a positive relationship with everyone in the future. Thank you for hearing me out. JoeJShmo 07:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
    Quick response to SFR. Per 1RR, as I told him on my talk page, I didn't notice anyone was reverting until after I had completed all my edits, and I explained my language in the summary. it's disingenuous not to acknowledge my response. Per MAGS, even if it were true that I didn't have the necessary experience, SFR hasn't demonstrated that I am a overly disruptive editor; and I am EC already. SFR agan references POV violations, but I have yet to see someone demonstrate POV from my edits there. Vague handwaving and linking my edits is not going to cut it. JoeJShmo 19:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
    To be clear: as I am EC, without gaming the system, there would need to be a separate community wide discussion with consensus, to justify handing out topic bans based on a perceived 'lack of experience'. The bar was set, and I've reached it. Adjustments to the requirements of hitting EC is a different discussion. JoeJShmo 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
    It looks like the consensus is to keep the ban. I have taken note of everyone's concerns and will continue to work on learning policy, and as I mentioned above, I understand much more now than I have in the past, and any past issues will no longer be a problem going forward. I'll probably appeal the topic ban in a couple weeks, or whenever I deem appropriate. This process has inspired me to commit to explaining to newer editors how to go about editing in this topic constructively when they hit EC instad of letting them potentially dig themselves into a hole (although they may have enough experience to know basic policy and avoid blatantly disruptive editing, the bar for these topics has been shown here to be much higher and more complicated), and I encourage all involved to do the same. Thank you. JoeJShmo 07:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

    The topic ban was placed because the editor clearly does not have the necessary experience and grasp on WP:PAGS to contribute constructively in the topic area. I brought up the technical 1RR violation as it demonstrated that they immediately jumped into removing, even after being reverted, prose that they disagreed with. They did this claiming NPOV violations, and demanding that their edits not be reverted. We don't need more stonewalling POV warring going on in the topic area. The discussion at User talk:JoeJShmo#WP:CLAIM demonstrates a lack of a clear understanding of WP:PAGS which is necessary to edit constructively in this incredibly contentious topic. This comes after a block and a topic ban for behavior in the topic. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Selfstudier

    No comment on the sanction itself other than I think appellant largely brought this on themselves. As I have indicated before, think we ought to try and avoid that non EC editors end up at this board at all, that's not going to help someone new get to grips with the way WP works, not in a CT. Selfstudier (talk) 11:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by JoeJShmo

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by BilledMammal

    A major issue in the enforcement of the ECP restriction is the inconsistency. Whether editors are sanctioned for violating it appears to be entirely based on chance. For example, several months ago I reported IOHANNVSVERVS and Osps7 for gaining ECP primarily through ECR violations, but no action was taken. (To date, neither appear to have made more than 500 edits outside the topic area.) Since then, I've declined to report other such editors, as I've been under the impression that it is not seen as an actionable issue.

    I think we need to be consistent in how we treat editors who gain extended-confirmed status through violations; either we sanction all of them or none of them, and if we are going to sanction them we impose comparable sanctions. Personally, I think some level of sanction is appropriate, but it needs to be consistently applied, as to do otherwise would be unfair for editors like JoeJShmo.

    See also Redefinition of ECP and Redefining ECP, which are about how to address good-faith edits that work towards extended-confirmed status; the rough consensus of the community appears to be that we should not adjust ECP to make it more difficult to work towards, and nor should we fault editors for working towards it unless they do so through bad-faith edits. BilledMammal (talk) 00:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by TarnishedPath

    The sanction looked very measured to me given that the editor had not long before received a block for 31 hours for NPA. This topic area needs less disruption, not more. 1000 extra edits and 6 months will give the editor sufficient time to understand WP policies and guidelines. In that way the sanction is purely preventative. TarnishedPath 11:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by The Kip

    While I do agree with BM’s concerns about applying ECR in a consistent manner (and/or redefining it), I concur with those above in that I really don’t see an issue with this particular sanction. As I recently told another editor, hopefully the TBAN results in moderated/refined behavior that they need to develop before any potential return to the area. The Kip 17:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by berchanhimez

    From what I've seen, there is no consensus whatsoever on what even counts as gaming EC. And that seems to be the crux of this topic ban - a belief that the editor "gamed" EC and is still not ready, so it is being "reset" to basically start counting over. While I appreciate administrators are given wide latitude to impose sanctions for Arbitration Enforcement purposes, I do not believe such a "reset of EC" is in line with current lack of consensus on what gaming is (or even if it's a problem to begin with). That said, I don't see any reason that, given the edits after the appellant reached automatic extended confirmed being applied, that a regular topic ban (indefinite or time limited), without a number of edits, for a specific topic area would not be appropriate. I realize that this may be contradictory - I don't believe a "until you redo extended confirmed requirements" topic ban is something that should be applied - yet I also think that a regular topic ban shouldn't be avoided just because the user recently got extended confirmed. There is also the question of what the "extra" restrictions of edit count and time frame mean for appeals. Is it intended that the appellant in this case can't appeal it before 1000 total edits and 6 months? Is it intended that appeals before that time should just be declined, or looked at more carefully? Is it intended to automatically expire at that time, and who is responsible for "assessing" the 1000 edits and 6 months criteria to decide if it's expired? What if the user gets to 900 edits, creates 3 new articles in other contentious topic areas (that they aren't topic banned from) without any issue whatsoever? Best to just make it a regular topic ban, either time-limited or indefinite - and let the user follow normal appeal processes as anyone else if/when they feel they have shown their competence enough to get it removed. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 18:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

    Question for Doug Weller - EC is only enforced by the software on pages protected with that level of protection. The question to ask here is whether other editors are supposed to know, if they don't use hover-boxes (or whatever the technical gadget is called), that this editor is "not" extended confirmed. And even still, it doesn't sound like they are having extended confirmed removed - because this is a single subject area topic ban. Hence why I feel this is, for all intents and purposes, no different than an indefinite topic ban that can be appealed at any time. The addition of the edit/time restriction serves virtually no purpose, unless it is to mean that an appeal "should be" accepted at that time - but any appeal of it would be considered on the merits and we will be back where we started - so there is no use for the edit/time restrictions. Just make it indefinite and allow the user to appeal whenever as any other topic ban. Either they have gained experience and will be able to show it, or the appeal will fail and be handled as normal for those appealing before a removal is warranted. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 07:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by JoeJShmo

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • In principle, I think that the topic ban issued by ScottishFinnishRadish is appropriate given the series of events that led to here, though I would like to hear the admin's response here to clarify the reasons that this topic ban was given. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I consider the ban to have been appropriate per the arguments given above by ScottishFinnishRadish which is confirmed by my own experience in trying to advise JoeJShmo. The purpose is to help them gain experience with our WP:PAGS. Reaching the 6 months and 1000 edits won't automatically expire so they will have to reach out to an Admin to restore EC, but I believe that this should be granted then without relation to edits in other edits or the quality of their edits. Any problems in other areas should be treated separately. Doug Weller talk 13:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I agree with concerns above about consistently enforcing EC restrictions, and responding consistently to gaming ECR; but that does not change my assessment that this editor needs to gain more experience - and hopefully learn restraint - outside this topic. Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I agree that the TBAN was well within the bounds of admin discretion "to prevent damage or disruption" and there has not been a compelling case put that the ban is no longer necessary therefore I decline the appeal. Absent any further admin comments in the next ~24 hours or so I'll close the appeal as declined as there aren't admins arguing in favour of overturning it. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:37, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

    Tobyw87

    Tobyw87 topic-banned indefinitely by ScottishFinnishRadish. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:55, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Tobyw87

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Starship.paint (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:04, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Tobyw87 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Violates WP:AGF, WP:NPA, casts aspersions. Quotes below. starship.paint (RUN) 12:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

    1. 05:14, 20 July 2024 Assuming good faith is a fundamental principle of Misplaced Pages
    2. 05:01, 20 July 2024 (bolding done by starship.paint) Again you are fact-free and proud. As this is my own talk page I am free to say what I want (unlike the rest of the entirety of Misplaced Pages which is clearly pro-Hamas and pro-murdering as many Jews as possible) … knows more about the ICJ than any of these Misplaced Pages editors who would rather cite in favor of terrorist sympathizers than the truth … so you can continue to lie about it all you want but it changes nothing at all. Eventually the truth will win and your hateful/bigoted narrative will lose.
    3. 19:02, 18 July 2024 Your comment and the comments of many others are indicative of the extreme anti-Israel (Jewish) bias going on on Misplaced Pages right now
    4. 21:55, 12 June 2024 by the looks of of this verbiage it seems like editors here want to vilify Israel using a different lexicon
    5. 19:05, 9 June 2024 You just want to push a narrative instead of saying the obvious, which is Hamas and the IDF share blame here.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 17:29, 9 June 2024 (see the system log linked to above).
    • Gave an alert about contentious topics in the area of conflict to another editor, on 05:28, 14 July 2024
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Tobyw87

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Tobyw87

    I did not personally attack anyone and if my statements are construed that way, that is my mistake. This is a very contentious issue and there are obviously many different valid perspectives in the literature and in media and all should be reflective on Misplaced Pages. I believe the pro-Hamas perspective is currently dominating on Misplaced Pages and I am entirely free to think this and say it if I want to. In fact, there have been many media articles citing Misplaced Pages's overt anti-Israel bias---here, here, here, and here to cite just a few. From my perspective, this "Arbitration process" is in the furtherance of this very well documented bias . I have zero interest in silencing the pro-Palestinian position and respect many of the articles that have been written here that adequately reflect both sides.

    The editor who submitted this request is the one who is engaging in personal attacks---assuming that I am not in good faith, assuming that I do not know how Misplaced Pages works, etc. I don't believe I've attacked them even one time and yet I am the one being sanctioned for it.

    I believe the mission of Misplaced Pages is important and as this is a community that operates on the basis of consensus, I will respect any ban going forward and cease all editing on Israel/Palestine topics. I am extremely biased by my own admission and if the community judges I am not capable of editing Misplaced Pages adequately according to its standards I will 100% accept this judgement. Thank you.Tobyw87 (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Kashmiri I have media and academic articles supporting my views that Misplaced Pages is biased on this topic. If you have an issue with this claim, I am not the one to levy that against. Jewish lives are at stake so I take it very personally. I retract nothing. Tobyw87 (talk) 23:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Kashmiri

    Thans @SP for filing. Yeah, the editor doesn't seem to understand what Misplaced Pages is and how it works, esp. re. sourcing. I'm not personally offended, and my Jewish friends will have a good laugh, but both the attack and the user's editing history suggest that the user may be incapable of editing objectively in the Palestine–Israel topic area. — kashmīrī  12:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Tobyw87: To call the large number of editors who faithfully summarise reliable sources and don't simply parrot the Likud propaganda – to call them "pro-Hamas" is a slap in the face. I suggest you retract your accusation asap. — kashmīrī  22:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
    @SFR: OK, perhaps that went too far, or too much of a mirror it was. Crossed out. It's okay for me to complain about a Pro-Palestinian bias. But deliberately conflate Palestine and Hamas is perhaps too much. — kashmīrī  02:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Tobyw87

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Dtobias

    Dtobias is indefinitely topic banned from gender-related disputes or controversies and associated people, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Dtobias

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Snokalok (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Dtobias (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Standard_discretionary_sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    (Diffs below)

    Anytime there’s a discussion involving an article that falls under GENSEX topics, User:dtobias comes in and more or less just rants about the evil transgenders and trans activists in a way that contributes nothing to the article’s talk page and only serves to espouse his views on trans rights devoid of any relevance to editing the article.

    He also frequently either directly accuses or through a paper thin pretense accuses other editors of being trans activists without the wiki’s best interests at heart. This includes saying that properly gendering trans people in line with MOS:GENDERID is comparable to a Muslim user forcing his religious beliefs on Misplaced Pages, and accusing users of trying to discount any source that’s not PinkNews even when the sources in question are very demonstrably unreliable and/or employ the use of anti-trans slurs. On at least one occasion, he has also made edits to GENSEX articles themselves, referring to trans women using he/him pronouns.

    Unasked for rant about how Trans activists are prone to throwing tantrums when they don't get their way. WP:NOTFORUMWP:DIS

    Irrelevant WP:NOTFORUM tangent about how There certainly is a set of beliefs, principles, doctrines, and philosophies being promoted by trans activists, so the whole concept that "there's no such thing as trans ideology" is ludicrous.

    In response to being told to follow MOS:GENDERID, he goes on a whole WP:NOTFORUM thing about newspeak and thoughtcrimes.

    Another WP:NOTFORUM thing about “trans ideology”, this time comparing trans people to people who think they’re Napoleon and are thus entitled to all of Europe.

    WP:NOTFORUM ramble about the rise of “transgenderism”.

    WP:NOTFORUM rant about the term “TERF” + comment saying that trans men are women.

    WP:AGF WP:DIS reply saying that asking editors to follow MOS:GENDERID is comparable to a Muslim editor forcing his religious views on Misplaced Pages.

    Accusing editors of trying to POV-push for saying that a source that used slurs to refer to trans women wasn’t reliable. EDIT: Sorry, the slur one was below. This one was just basic AGF POV accusation. I have no idea why I got the two mixed up or why I thought they were the same response. That’s on me for sloppy proofreading, sincerest apologies.

    Ditto. I think he just copied and pasted his response.

    Editing a trans woman’s BLP to refer to her by he/him pronouns in violation of MOS:GENDERID.


    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    Him being taken to ANI previously over his behavior on GENSEX topics

    The thread being moved to AE, where he was given a caution over his behavior.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    The AE thread linked above.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    I was advised at ANI to file this here instead. I’m not filing this because of his personal POV on GENSEX topics. There are plenty of editors with such views that still contribute positively to GENSEX articles, even if I personally disagree with them. I’m filing this because of the way he deploys said views on talk pages and articles in a way that contributes nothing to the page and instead just seems to use said page as a forum to vent his feelings about trans people, often towards trans editors.

    EDIT: Sorry if I’m at all awkward at this! This is my first AE thread.


    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Dtobias

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Dtobias

    I stand by the truth (as I see it) of everything I said, if not necessarily the civility or appropriateness in context. This subject brings out the worst in everybody it touches. I will abide by whatever decision the community makes in this action. I do hope that those who look into this matter look at the behavior of all people involved in the discussions the above diffs were part of, and not just at mine; those articles might be better off if a number of people whose views are too strongly held and expressed to make them well-suited for dispassionate encyclopedia creation would step back a bit.

    To mention a few of the above diffs where further comment is needed:

    was in response to a comment saying that pretty much all of the UK news media should be dismissed as unreliable because people have criticized their "transphobia".

    I wasn't "ranting" there, just quoting part of an academic paper being discussed, where it mentions the definition and usage of "TERF", which had also been under discussion on that page.

    I wasn't "being told to follow MOS:GENDERID" because I hadn't violated it; the discussion was between others, which I jumped into with my own two cents (er, "tuppence" since it was about a UK subject) about how being compelled to use language based on one side of a controversial issue limits ability to debate. This doesn't mean that I would ever intentionally break Misplaced Pages style rules, whether or not I agreed with them; see below for where I self-reverted when I accidentally did so (much later than this debate).

    An error on my part which I immediately corrected, the final edit here being, as of this writing, the most recent edit on that page, so nobody has yet found it in need of further correction or alteration. *Dan T.* (talk) 01:42, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    There does seem to be a double standard in effect, where people on one side of the issue can use all the forceful and biased language they wish usually with no repercussions, but the other side needs to walk on eggshells. Even saying that there's such a thing as transgender ideology gets you in trouble, as seen in comments below. *Dan T.* (talk) 05:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Re LightNightLights: No, nobody should be banned from commenting about a subject due to their personal characteristics or beliefs. But if they are using hyperbolic, violent rhetoric aimed at others of opposing beliefs, one can call into question their objectivity and professionalism on the subject and their suitability for rendering judgment as an uninvolved party. I note the rhetorical technique of using analogies (in this case black people to trans people) to make a point; this is a very commonly done tactic, and one that I'm being rebuked for here.

    Re Abecedare: I appreciate your comments even if they're not always what I want to hear. Neat username! Interesting user page quote! Seems like you truly practice what you preach, given your user history as far as I've looked shows absolutely no involvement in culture warring on any side. Can you explain why my use of analogies is "inapt" while others' may not be? I'm not just being argumentative here; I actually care what you think. *Dan T.* (talk) 19:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Firefangledfeathers

    I don't think Dan's statement that he does "not necessarily the civility or appropriateness in context" is enough here. The quoting of 1984 was pretty egregious. At the time, we were discussing a tough issue. An activist was objecting to the circumstances surrounding an OB/GYN doctor who is a trans woman. The article text had described the doctor as "a male transgender doctor", which I objected to. Another editor proposed a change to "a transgender doctor", with other participants objecting to that. Finding the right option in these disputes is tough work. So many good editors have been pushed away due to the acrimony in this topic area. We deserve people that won't step into a tough content dispute to contribute only a newspeak accusation. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    Certainly Dtobias needs to tone down the inflammatory rhetoric and stop with all of the comparisons. But Snokalok's report needs refinement - misreading a quote (that was literally put in Template:Quote frame) as a "NOTFORUM rant" and noting an instance of misgendering that was literally corrected by Dtobias one minute later. Meanwhile the "Unasked for rant" was a direct response to an editor who called for sources such as The Times, The Guardian and the BBC to be found to be not generally reliable on the topic based on the reporting of sources including the LGBT magazine Them. starship.paint (RUN) 04:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by BilledMammal

    I agree with Starship.Paint. To add to what they said, Snokalok said that Dtobias accused editors of trying to POV-push for saying that a source that used slurs to refer to trans women wasn’t reliable, which seems to mischaracterize the discussion. Slurs do not appear to have been mentioned at any point, and Dtobias' comment appears to be pushing back against considering The Times, The Guardian, and The BBC unreliable.

    Snokalok also says that Dtobias said that asking editors to follow MOS:GENDERID is comparable to a Muslim editor forcing his religious views on Misplaced Pages.

    In this discussion, the context to which is a situation where both sex and gender need to be identified in order for a reader to make sense of the content, Snokalok argues, somewhat uncivilly at times (don’t go asserting nonsensical conventions) that sex is mutable and we should refer to a trans-woman as female. In response to this, which as it relates to sex and not gender appears to be unrelated to MOS:GENDERID, Dtobias' asserted that this was a system of belief (for context, reliable sources generally hold that sex is immutable). This discussion is also where the 1984 quote was made.

    BilledMammal (talk) 06:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by berchanhimez

    Initial comment hidden because I incorporate/clarify it belowI do not agree with the statement by Isabelle below that the use of the terms "transgender ideology" or "transgenderism" should have any impact on this case, nor should they be surprising. They are perfectly valid terms for the things they describe. To be clear, I am fully supportive of those who believe that the solution to feeling as if they were assigned the wrong gender at birth being given all possible forms of treatment for the mental health problems they have because of those feelings. But that does not mean that there is not an "ideology" surrounding it in a political sense, nor does it mean that "transgenderism" is an inaccurate term to describe the concept of someone being transgender. A quick review of the diffs presented by the originator of this complaint - I agree that dtobias may be able to tone down the rhetoric a bit. But let's not ignore the fact that the originator claimed User:dtobias comes in and more or less just rants about the evil transgenders and trans activists without providing any evidence of dtobias calling them "evil transgenders". It seems that the originator may need to take a step back and look at their own rhetoric - legitimate discourse regarding transgender topics cannot be stifled just because someone disagrees with another, and misrepresenting what someone else has said should not be tolerated. To be blunt, I think dtobias may have been correct in saying Trans activists are prone to throwing tantrums when they don't get their way - this appears to be one of those tantrums intended to get an editor that is disagreed with removed from the topic area. In reviewing the "not a forum" complaints made, there seems to be none that are using the talk page as a forum - those comments (from my view) are all relevant to the discussions they were made in.

    Ultimately, this appears to be based primarily on one content dispute that the originator of this complaint feels strongly about. I have no opinion (at this time) as to whether the issues raised (over MOS:GENDERID and how we refer to transgender persons in their articles) merit further/wider discussion - but I do not see any action being needed here aside from perhaps a warning to the originator that disagreeing with someone does not mean you can ignore their opinions and try to silence them. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 08:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    I've collapsed my initial comment as it was very general and I have expanded on it (including directly identifying the diffs I was commenting about) below, I hope this is/can be allowed. The diff analysis below itself is slightly over 500 words, with approximately 450 words of analysis following it. I believe that both of these parts are crucial to examine this issue fully - both dtobias' conduct itself (the diff analysis) but also the analysis and identification of wider problems in the area. I would greatly appreciate being permitted a retroactive extension to permit my comment that follows in its entirety, and if an administrator has questions/requests a reply from me a further allowance of 200 words to form that reply. Apologies if I missed instructions on how to request a pre-emptive extension of the word count - and if I cannot/will not be permitted one retroactively to cover this I will likely simply have to avoid the diff review.I will begin with analysis of the evidence provided:
    • Diff 2 is a valid point to make in a discussion over a political viewpoint being reported on by a source.
    • Diff 3 is a discussion over how to identify the subject when discussing things for which them being transgender is important. In the discussion, it was actually Snokalok who initially went off topic - rather than discussing the improvement to the article in question, they said Male and female are obviously gendered and you are well aware of that. Another user (not dtobias) had further questions over that, and Snokalok continued to attempt to shut down any opposing viewpoint, rather than attempting to explain where MOS:GENDERID comes from and our consensuses on the issue - eventually saying Then don’t go asserting nonsensical conventions that allow an editor to refer to trans women in articles as males. And this is when dtobias stepped in and pointed out that this was, in effect, attempted censorship based on viewpoint - to which Snokalok replied with yet another veiled threat of That’s worked out for the last thousand editors who’ve done so.
    • Diff 4 is an example being provided to explain the difference between "being trans" and the politics surrounding transgender education/etc. Was it a great analogy? No. But it is not inflammatory to attempt to explain oneself using analogies.
    • Diff 5 is a reply to a discussion thread that yet again was started by Snokalok - not a NOTFORUM violation. it is a discussion over the historical prevalence of the concepts and thus a look to avoid recentism bias in assigning due weight. Now Snokalok is claiming it's "irrelevant" because they didn't like the reply to their bringing the issue up.
    • Diff 6 is nonproblematic - there was a post by Void if removed that presented a possible source, and dtobias pulled out a footnote to discuss further. In no way should quoting a source to discuss whether it may be useful or not be problematic.
    • Diff 7 completely misrepresents what was being replied to - it was in fact Snokalok that turned the discussion away from what Misplaced Pages policies/guidelines say and to personal viewpoints. Dtobias pointed out that Misplaced Pages doesn't care what the personal viewpoints of an editor/editors are.
    • Diff 8 is an accurate "what if" - it cannot be denied that there is much more of a push against the reliability of "anti-trans" sources on Misplaced Pages than there is against the reliability of dubious "pro-trans" sources such as Pink News. Of note, Snokalok clearly has an opinion on this - a source that uses a term they don't like can't be reliable according to their explanation of the diff presented. And that completely ignores the lengthy discussion that was had regarding the source - but also makes dtobias' reply retrospectively reasonable - since it is clear that Snokalok wishes for sources that use words they don't like to be prohibited.
    • Diff 9 is a valid criticism of someone that aspoused a similar "if they use words I don't like, burn the source" viewpoint.
    • Finally, diff 10 has already been admitted to have been a mistake, has not been repeated, and was swiftly corrected.
    So what are we left with? One minorly problematic diff where dtobias claims that trans activists are prone to throwing tantrums when they don't get their way as the worst statement in it. To be quite frank, that is an accurate representation of what is going on here. Snokalok is unhappy that dtobias won't sit back and accept censorship of sources based on using the "wrong terminology", is unhappy that dtobias is trying to critically evaluate sources and our articles from all angles and ensure that all things are considered, and so they have now come here to "throw a tantrum" trying to get them removed from the topic area. In doing so, they have found the support of many of the same editors who, in the discussions that led to the "evidentiary" comments, espoused the same sort of "ban people who say words I don't like" views. Whether this is considered a "first shot wins" situation, or simply an "unclean hands" situation, it would be improper to sanction dtobias for this report.On the terminology argument, I cannot accept that "sometimes offensive" on wiktionary is grounds for a word being considered "improper" - much less effectively banning it from use under penalty of being sanctioned. Nor can I accept as offensive the act of calling a political viewpoint an "ideology" - which is what was being discussed in the cases that dtobias used that phrase, not the existence of transgender people as a whole. In the grand scheme of things on Misplaced Pages, discussions every single day contain much more "offensive" or inflammatory language - in fact the originator of this complaint has (inaccurately) stated that dtobias thinks there's evil transgenders. Further, multiple other users on the talkpage in question (Talk:LGB Alliance) have described the "anti-trans" (or similar) viewpoints as "ideolog". Trying to limit the verbiage used by "one side" of a discussion when permitting the same verbiage to be used by the "other side" is flat out antithetical to the purpose and principles of Misplaced Pages - and should only be considered where the language being used is either completely inaccurate/misleading, or is so extreme or widely considered offensive so as to have zero purpose whatsoever. And that's not the case with what dtobias has said.This is a contentious topic, yes, but that does not mean that those supporting a viewpoint that get the most "likes" should be allowed to silence their critics, nor freely roam Misplaced Pages attempting to twist and turn Misplaced Pages policies to fit their desired outcome of limiting alternate views being reported in articles. And they certainly should not be allowed to start discussions about their views that are questionably relevant at best, then use someone trying to engage in legitimate discussion about such comments as "evidence" against them. That is what is primarily disruptive here. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 22:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (Sweet6970)

    I see that Isabelle Belato has said This is a topic already fraught with hostility. This is, indeed, true. And I do not think that an admin who until recently had an image on her User page which included the slogan: I THROW TERFS INTO THE SUN yeet is a suitable person to be sitting in judgment on this matter. (It looks like the only reason this image is no longer visible is that it has been centrally deleted. ) Sweet6970 (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Comment about the final diff quoted in the complaint above . Without any input from anyone else, this was corrected one minute later. . This edit is part of a series of edits, which started with an edit where ‘Wadhwa’ was misspelled as ‘Wradha’ . This was corrected in the next edit, one minute later: . Dtobias is obviously correcting himself as he goes along. To present the final diff in the complaint out of context is misleading, to put it politely. I think that Snokalok needs a formal warning not to behave like this. Sweet6970 (talk) 16:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist: Yes, of course, someone who endorses threats of violence against anyone is not fit to sit in judgment on them. And your comparison of feminism to racism is inflammatory. Sweet6970 (talk) 19:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist: Regarding your latest comment: WP:NOTFORUM, and this kind of discussion is particularly unsuitable to be held at AE. Sweet6970 (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist

    wikt:transgenderism:

    • (sometimes derogatory) A purported ideology behind transgender identities, trans activism and trans rights movements; transness as an ideology. (Compare homosexual agenda.)

    transgender ideology and gender ideology link to Anti-LGBT rhetoric and Anti-gender movement, where more context is given for RS considering these offensive and deliberately vague buzzwords seeking to portray trans people as ideologically driven.

    Now, DTobias knows these are offensive phrases, because at WP:NOQUEERPHOBES (an essay written by myself and other queer editors to address rampant queerphobia on Misplaced Pages) they objectd on the grounds that: In particular, it's quite a useful thing that one of the prime tenets of gender ideology is that there's no such thing as gender ideology; that nips any opposing arguments in the bud! The aim of Newspeak was to ensure that expression of dissident opinions was impossible due to all relevant words being either eliminated or redefined. Modern social-justice crusaders are making great progress at achieving this, particularly in the area of sex and gender.

    It's only after these kinds of phrases are noted to be offensive they argue things like Ideology means a "Doctrine, philosophy, body of beliefs or principles belonging to an individual or group." There certainly is a set of beliefs, principles, doctrines, and philosophies being promoted by trans activists, so the whole concept that "there's no such thing as trans ideology" is ludicrous. He gleefully continues to insist that "trans ideology" is a real thing even above: Even saying that there's such a thing as transgender ideology gets you in trouble, as seen in comments below.

    There's also snide comments arguing the mainstream media is unduly saying trans people are marginalized: particularly when a lot of the media keeps hammering in the idea that this group is highly marginalized (which kind of contradicts the idea that all of mainstream society favors them, but never mind...).

    I was thinking of giving this user a warning on his talk page following this comment at LGB Alliance: Activists call everything "transphobic" if it doesn't ask "how high?" when the activists say to jump, because I'd also noticed these forum-style rants and found them offputting.

    And there is a clear WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality evidenced in comments like: If one side attains complete victory in this battle, they are likely to win the war, since their side is thereby unanimously supported by reliable sources (because all differing sources have been deemed unreliable) in reference to the Telegraph discussion, what should have been a discussion about the reliability of a source is argued to be warring sides in a battle.

    This user repeatedly, in every situation they can, deliberately uses provocative and offensive language - comparing trans people to people who think they're Napolean, religious beliefs, Authoritarian Orwellianism, and generally using language that frames being transgender as a powerful ideology.

    To all those who think this isn't problematic - would you argue the same if he repeatedly referred to the "homosexual agenda" and "gay activists calling everything homophobic" and called being questioned on such language evidence of Newspeak? WP:RGW behavior for sure. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 16:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    WRT those calling Isabelle Bellato into question, would y'all argue "I toss race realists into the sun YEET" disqualifies admins from arbitrating race and intelligence? Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 16:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Sweet6970 - I suppose we can agree to disagree on how publicly anti-bigotry you can be. I'm a little confused, are you arguing DTobias is a TERF?
    your comparison of feminism to racism is inflammatory. - Trans exclusionary radical feminism is a very minor branch of feminists, defined entirely by their opposition to transgender people's civil liberties, considered by the majority of the worlds feminist and LGBT watchdogs to be transphobic. You know this. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 20:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Isaidnoway

    I do agree with the statement by Isabelle below that the use of the terms "transgender ideology" or "transgenderism" should have an impact on this case. And it doesn't "surprise me" either because it is terminology (ideologically-motivated ... ideological objective), Dtobias frequently uses when editing in this CT area. Two of the diffs below are three years old, but it shows a pattern, along with the multiple diffs above.

    • Diff – But what else but an "ideology" can you call a set of beliefs about sex and gender that include such things as "Trans Women Are Women" (quite often used as a thought-terminating cliche, like when it's chanted mindlessly by activists trying to drown out all opposition) (May 2024)
    • Diff – Sometimes I feel I've woken up in the looking-glass world or the Bizarro World, where perfectly normal terminology in use for centuries and defined in dictionaries is "POV" and "fringe", while ideologically-motivated neologisms are "NPOV" and standard. (Oct 2021)
    • Diff – But that wouldn't accomplish the ideological objective of forcing everybody to think of it as if it's an arbitrary assignment instead of a biological fact. (Oct 2021)

    From a personal viewpoint, I believe that comment in the first diff is insulting and denigrating Transgender Women. See also: "Gender ideology". Isaidnoway (talk) 16:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by LightNightLights

    Regarding this edit: Sure thing. Let us ban black people too from speaking about racism just because they are anti-racism. LightNightLights (talk • contribs) 17:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by LunaHasArrived

    I also think it is relevant that on multiple of these edits (1,3,5) Dtobias was reminded about notforum, and yet decided to ignore this policy and continuing in this behaviour. Also all of these diffs are from within the last month, they seem to have done 50 contributions in this time period so this controversial editing contributed a significant part of their recent editing history. LunaHasArrived (talk) 10:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Dtobias

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • This is a topic already fraught with hostility, and some of their highlighted comments do nothing but add heat. While comparing the use of gender inclusive terms to Newspeak is a tired one, comparing trans people to people who believe they are Napoleon Bonaparte is a new one to me. That they'd use terms such as "transgender ideology" and "transgenderism" does not surprise me. Isabelle Belato 03:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
      @Berchanhimez: the issue with those terms is that they add up to the inflammatory language used by Dtobias, and which has been shown here by the OP and Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist. There is a clear pattern of battleground behavior, which the user has already been warned about. Isabelle Belato 19:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
    • A reminder that all editors are supposed to comment only in their own section and have a limit of 500 words and 20 diffs, unless they request and are granted an extension. So please keep your comments focused and to the point.
    I have deleted comments by editors in sections other than their own (I also deleted some responses by BilledMammal in their own section, which though wouldn't have made sense with other comments removed). @Snokalok: if you now believe that some diffs are not relevant to the complaint, you can strikethrough them. Abecedare (talk) 16:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Ok, now I have reviewed all the diffs presented in the original complaint: one was a misgendering error that was quickly corrected and a few others (, , ), while non-ideal, arguably fall in the grey/AGF area given the context of the respective discussions. The same cannot be said about the other diffs where either the snark (, ), belittling language ("throwing tantrums", "screams of activists") or inapt analogies (, and especially ) served only to inflame the discussions.
    Given that similar issues were previously raised at AE regarding Dtobias's participation in this area, when they were issued a reminder about their tone, I believe a WP:GENSEX-topic ban is now justified and needed. Abecedare (talk) 17:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Emdosis

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Emdosis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Emdosis (talk) 19:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    for WP:ECR violations, imposed at
          Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2024#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240721163500-User_sanctions_(CT/A-I),

      logged at 

          16:34, 21 July 2024
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    Yeah, I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Emdosis

    I was about to post the following to Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee when I saw I got banned. I'll post it here instead: 

     (topic:ECR)

    "The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed"

    I'm guessing it's so broad that it includes user talk pages, and going even further, that it would allow a non-admin to remove an edit on another user's talk page (even though that would clash with WP:UP#OOUP). (To be very clear, I absolutely did not add that comment on Joe Roe's page knowingly violating ECR rules)

    Statement by Emdosis

    Just found out the original block wasn't even applicable under the ARBPIA decision to begin with:

    Definition of the "area of conflict"

    4) For the purposes of editing restrictions in the ARBPIA topic area, the "area of conflict" shall be defined as encompassing

    1. the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted ("primary articles"), and
    2. edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace ("related content")
    Passed 6 to 0 at 05:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

    Emdosis (talk) 22:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Theleekycauldron:
    "I wouldn't immediately understand "userspace" to apply to another user's talk page in this case."
    Idk. To me, 'Userspace' means all space. Not just 'Userpage'.
    "...seems more like wikilawyering than anything else to say that this edit falls outside of the CT regime."
    And? Can you please point me to the part in the ARBPIA page that explains the exception to the exception as being "if it is contentious"? You know damn well no-one is going to read all of ARBPIA, let alone WP:CTOP. It would have been helpful if, instead of just a long and pedantic essay that reads like a legal document, it would simply say (in the first paragraph) what the goal of the restrictions are, and the scope of it. Because it seems to me you guys keep on increasing the scope of the restrictions (which weren't clearly defined to begin with) with every follow-up. It's also not clear (based on admin activity) what the purpose, or more precisely, the scope of the purpose, is. What are we trying to prevent here? Is this what we're trying to prevent here? Emdosis (talk) 23:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

    Just noting that I have indefinitely topic banned them as well, for WP:BATTLEGROUND editing and casting aspersions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Emdosis

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by BilledMammal

    Emdosis made a comment that was in violation of ECR, it was reverted, and they reinstated despite discussion on their talk page saying they shouldn't. Reasonable block.

    Emdosis, if I can give you some advice; this sanction is the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. I suggest that you withdraw this appeal and instead accept it. In a week, when it expires, you can return, make 200 productive edits and non-trivial edits in other topic areas, and join this topic area if you are still interested in doing so. Don't earn yourself a more permanent sanction over trying to contribute to the topic area a couple of weeks early.

    I realize you're only 100 edits from ECR, but I suggest 200 just to avoid any controversy in the future over the edits you made within the topic area contributing to you earning ECR.

    In addition, I see you cited WP:IAR; for inexperienced editors, IAR is a trap that will only get you in trouble. Eventually you'll realize when it's appropriate to apply, but for now, especially within contentious topic areas, I suggest you stay well clear of it. BilledMammal (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Selfstudier

    I know that in theory all blocks are appealable but I will say it again, non EC editors arguing about EC restrictions should not have any standing at this board. By the time we are done here, the block will have run its course. Selfstudier (talk) 21:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Barkeep: How to resolve the technicality, although I would have thought the later should override the earlier in case of ambiguity? An ARCA? Selfstudier (talk) 09:43, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Zero0000

    In my opinion, the belief that userspace edits are not in the ARBPIA topic area is well founded. Not only was the exclusion of userspace passed 6-0 by the arbcom decision that defined the topic area, but it is stated explicitly in the list of topic areas which is specified at WP:ARBECR (footnote 2) as the topic areas which are covered. Once userspace is deemed outside the topic area, even phrases like "all pages in the topic area" do not include it. Zero 12:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Emdosis

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Given the subsequent topic-ban, this appeal regarding the scope of ECR would seem to be moot. Any objection to closing on that basis? Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:59, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Hmm. Good question NYB. I think in the end I have no objections. However, I will note that the contradiction between the "topic area" as defined and what areas ECR do not allow for is present. And so in a different scenario I would say this user shouldn't have to eat a block that could then be escalated if there are future transgressions. However, given that there was other conduct leading to a topic ban that factor doesn't seem to apply here. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Fine with closing as moot as well, and endorse SFR's topic ban. I wouldn't immediately understand "userspace" to apply to another user's talk page in this case – seems more like wikilawyering than anything else to say that this edit falls outside of the CT regime. We can drag this to ARCA if we have to, but just agreeing that the filer made a vexatious argument is easier. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 16:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

    ABHammad

    There is a rough consensus that ABHammad has been engaging in battleground behavior and as an attempt to stop that without going to a full topic ban, is subjected to a 0 revert restriction. Barkeep49 (talk) 20:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning ABHammad

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Levivich (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:51, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    ABHammad (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    "Tag-team" edit warring at Zionism over "colonization", a continuation of the edit war discussed above at #Nishidani, which closed July 11 ("A bunch of socks/compromised accounts blocked. Further action related to anything here will need a separate report."). I won't repeat what I wrote there at #Statement by Levivich (Nishidani).

    Other examples at other articles:

    Since July 8, ABHammad has made five edits , they are:

    Previous UTP discussions between us (permalinks): Jun 12, Jun 13, Jun 24 (response). Levivich (talk) 03:51, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    Special:Diff/1224151800

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Re Vegan's comment: I don't think Vegan misunderstood me, I think they are intentionally twisting my words. If I say "We are witnessing climate change", it obviously doesn't mean I support climate change. And nobody would confuse "settlement dismantlement" for "the dismantling of Israel". Unfortunately this is not the first time Vegan has tried to "catch" me with this kind of rhetorical gamesmanship, recently at Talk:Zionism: 1, 2, 3. This may be because I accused Vegan of bludgeoning last month. Levivich (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    one veteran editor here explicitly wishes for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israeli society is another example of the rhetorical gamesmanship/twisting of words, now aimed at another editor. Nobody said anything about dismantling Israeli society. Equating "the end of Zionism" with "dismantling of Israeli society" is no different than equating "settlement dismantlement" with "dismantlement of Israel." Basically it's an attempt to equate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Sound familiar? I believe it's nothing other than trolling/baiting. The point is to derail this report and take the focus off of the reported editor by creating new endless arguments, just like Vegan's bludgeoning behavior I complained about earlier. Admins, please put a stop to this. Levivich (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    the dismantling of Israel's colonial settler society is not the same thing as the dismantling of Israeli society. There is more to Israel than settler colonialism; neither Israel nor any other Jewish homeland needs to be a colonial settler society. Calling for an end to Israel's occupation and apartheid is not the same thing as calling for an end to Israel itself. Levivich (talk) 15:05, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    FTR, still continuing with this ideological purity test, now on another page: And still above all you simply refuse to say the simple words "I don't wish for the end of Zionism". Why is that? I'm of course not going to take this bait, my political beliefs are irrelevant, but I should not have to put up with this in response to filing an AE complaint. Levivich (talk) 16:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    More. Levivich (talk) 16:51, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    @SFR et al: This is not a single revert, this is a pattern that's lasted for months, since they joined this topic area, that is unlike any other editor I know of in this topic area. This is almost nothing but tag-team reverting. Of the 5 edits made between when the last AE was closed and this one was opened, 4 of them were tag-team edit-warring (diff'd above). Nobody else's edits have such a high proportion of tag-team edit warring.
    Case in point: two new edits since this AE was opened, one of them a revert (not tag-team) on an article they'd never edited before with no talk page posts . This account seems to exists for the purpose of pressing the "undo" button; I've never seen anybody else press the undo button this often on articles they've never otherwise touched.
    The last AE didn't seem to make any difference to them, nor did these talk page warnings: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. But maybe a formal AE warning will make a difference.
    And that's without getting into the POV stuff, which I think is more serious. We don't ask editors to edit trans-related articles with editors who edit articles to say that sex=gender, nor do we ask editors to edit race and intelligence articles with editors who edit articles to say that Black people are inferior to white people. Why should we ask editors to collaborate with someone who edits articles to say that Palestinians aren't native to Palestine (diff'd above)? Levivich (talk) 17:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    @SFR: Sure, if you slice the stack of diffs up and just look at one article, you can say "Well, it takes two (or four) to edit-war!" But now look at Self and Make's edits over the last 3 months. You will not find them tag-teaming anywhere near as frequently, and not on articles that they've never touched before or since. None of the PIA "regulars" do this in this frequency. That's why there a big pile of diffs: it's an overall pattern, it's not a one-off thing. I mean this is a dozen articles here, and it's not even everything, it's just what I'm aware of. It's not even the entirety of the EIA (should you want to run that, look at how many 1's are on that table, for any combination of this group of editors). Levivich (talk) 17:52, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    Man, this "enforce it topic-wide" line of argument bothers me. This is a report that shows diffs of a pattern of disruptive editing. Enforce this. The idea that we shouldn't enforce our policies because they're also violated elsewhere by others is... Because you can't say "file a report" and then when a report is filed, say "well other people do it too". What do you want me to do? Diff out everybody's disruption or nobody's? If there is disruption elsewhere, let someone spend the hours collecting diffs and filing an AE report. Levivich (talk) 18:27, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    @SFR Fair enough, and FTR I appreciate that admins are paying attention to this, thank you. Levivich (talk) 18:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    Another day, another POV revert. Levivich (talk) 15:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Selfstudier: I couldn't figure that out exactly, either, but much of it is a revert of recent edits by Iskander and Astropulse. The edit summary was restoring important, well sourced material by scholars and leading analysts, meanwhile it removed the sentence "Both Israel and Palestine frequently accuse the other of planning to commit genocide", which was sourced to Damien Short's book about genocide and an article in Journal of Genocide Studies (so it removed scholarship, not restored it). Meanwhile, it restored content about the opinions of Doron Weber and Mosab Hassan Yousef, neither of which are scholars or leading analysts. It restored the lead image to the blood-stain image (which was a change made on Jul 16 by Nice4What). It changed "Hoffman opined that Hamas has consistently maintained genocidal intentions" to the less neutral phrasing "Hoffman underscored the significance of the 1988 Hamas charter, asserting that Hamas has consistently maintained genocidal intentions and demonstrated a lack of interest in "moderation, restraint, negotiation, and the building of pathways to peace." It added content about the Hamas Charter to the Background section. There were a bunch of changes in addition to that, it seems. It's a tough diff to read, I'm not sure entirely if everything was "restored" or if some of it was new. Levivich (talk) 16:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    And following the pattern, that's their one and only edit to the article and they've never edited the talk page . Levivich (talk) 16:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Special:Diff/1235959754

    Discussion concerning ABHammad

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by ABHammad

    I cannot speak for the other editors mentioned, but I can confirm that I have no connection with them. It seems that Levivich's complaint is simply pointed at those who disagree with Levivich's point of view. This is evident from his recent, deeply inflammatory comment that we are "We are witnessing the last gasps of Zionism", and their edit warring, both leaving no question regarding their views on the IP conflict.

    Levivich's complaint appears to be exactly over what Misplaced Pages expects its editors to do: debate content, and when it comes to POV-pushing, reject the disruptive addition of controversial information forcibly added without, or before consensus is reached. The reverts Levivich shows were made in response to:

    • Attempts to push the controversial framing of Zionism as colonialism in Misplaced Pages's voice, despite the lack of consensus on this matter. This was done anyway due to consistent edit warring by several editors, including Levivich (, a revert which also saw them attacking other accounts just for being "new"). The article now uses colonization in Wiki voice at the very first sentence.
    • Attempts to remove maps of ancient Israel and info on Jewish identity
    • Attempts to describe the events in Gaza as genocide in Misplaced Pages's voice, unfortunately also successful

    If anything, the real issue here is a group of veteran editors pushing an anti-Israeli viewpoint on Misplaced Pages, promoting controversial views as encyclopedic facts, and threatening those who oppose them. This complaint is just the latest in a series of attempts to silence opposition and force a single, biased pov over all of the Israel-Palestine area in Misplaced Pages, which truthfully, has lost all neutrality due to the above conduct. ABHammad (talk) 08:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish what has been noted on Israel and apartheid is quite similar to other experienced I had. Take for example Zionism, where a new framing of it as "the colonization of a land outside of Europe", was implemented through edit warring by experienced editors in June and July, against consensus and while discussions are still ongoing. In these and other articles mentioned above (another example is List of genocides), my reverts were to the consensus version, not to a preferred new version. Vanamonde93, I want to emphasize that this was not about being 'correct on the ideological issues' but about preventing forceful changes made against consensus. I would really ask what should one do in cases like this. ABHammad (talk) 12:47, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Selfstudier

    @ABHammad: the real issue here is a group of veteran editors pushing an anti-Israeli viewpoint on Misplaced Pages, promoting controversial views as encyclopedic facts, and threatening those who oppose them. If this is the real issue, then evidence, please. At the moment it appears from the evidence presented that it may be yourself that is engaged in WP:CPUSH rather than others. Perhaps comment at the same time re User talk:ABHammad#1R breach about your edit blatantly promotes false information and User talk:ABHammad#Enough already about You are going against consensus and the principles of collaborative editing. Taking it to my talk page instead of collaborating on the talk page instead feels like bullying and harassment. Selfstudier (talk) 09:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish:The current consensus version seems to match the POV of ABHammad and האופה. Apart from the fact that I had valid reasons for reversion, that's not even true. On the weaponization matter, the current state is as I wished it (that is the link is included, not excluded, and I helped workshop the RFC that led to that conclusion). So, please, find another rabbit to hunt. Selfstudier (talk) 18:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    While I am at it, where is the response to the questions I posed? We have an editor casting aspersions left and right and that passes us by? Selfstudier (talk) 18:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Levivich: I don't understand that revert, what is it exactly, it seems that many things have been changed, is it just going back to a previous version of the page? Selfstudier (talk) 15:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Barkeep49: Editor Levivich has made a decent fist of trying to pin it down, the bulk of it is as he says and editor Iskandar has confirmed that all of his edits were reverted, no matter the reason they gave for removal in the first place, while the business about the image should have been subject of talk page discussion, the edit even reverts notelist and reflist (!), presumably to some prior version and I know not why. I will try to dissect it further but it will take some time and frankly, this sort of editing is uninspiring however it was manufactured.Selfstudier (talk) 17:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint (2)

    @ABHammad: you say that It seems that Levivich's complaint is simply pointed at those who disagree with Levivich's point of view. - but this complaint is about you, instead of pointing to anyone else who disagrees with Levivich. Your response fails to dispel the notion of WP:BATTLEGROUND conduct. starship.paint (RUN) 14:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Sean.hoyland: is absolutely right, in fact the offsite recruitment on Israel subforums has already occurred multiple times in the past week. See , and . starship.paint (RUN) 23:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Also agree with KoA, I am not at all impressed by the jumping to conclusions and doubling down by Vegan416 at this venue. In the very same week where the International Court of Justice ruled that Israel had "an obligation to cease immediately all new settlement activities and to evacuate all settlers", Vegan416 is claiming that settlement disbandment means the dismantling of Israel. starship.paint (RUN) 23:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Vegan416 stressed that it is worth considering motivations when evaluating the case. Even after the strikeouts, Vegan416 stresses that Levivich is apparently trying to push his ... anti-Zionist views, and still discussing whether Levivich does wish for the end of Zionism. What is the relevance of this? Sanctioning ABHammad (or not) will not end Zionism, does not dismantle Israel, and does not dismantle Israeli society. Separately, let's say editor X has a personal view that there should be a one-state solution to the conflict, combining all inhabitants of Israel, Gaza, Jerusalem and the West Bank as equal citizens of one new state: Isgazjerubank. Should editor X never file reports at WP:AE then for being 'anti-Zionist'? starship.paint (RUN) 15:29, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    As a general point, beliefs resembling the "If anything..." statements by ABHammad are essentially conspiracy theories. They are corrosive. They are used to rationalize all sorts of non-constructive and destabilizing activities in the topic area like sockpuppetry, edit warring, tag-teaming, non-compliance with ECR, email canvassing, vote stacking and off-site campaigning and recruitment. They are self-sustaining beliefs used to justify rule-breaking that have a long association with disruption here. They should probably be actively suppressed.

    Statement by xDanielx

    @Selfstudier: with regard to the Zionism dispute in particular, I think the evidence @Vegan416 collected makes it pretty clear that we have diverged from a neutral viewpoint. It is surprising to see Zionism referred to as colonization, in wikivoice with no qualifications, when there's a long list of notable scholars who take issue with that characterization.

    That said, NPOV issues should be fixed through consensus-building discussions, and ABHammad's recent contributions do seem to involve too many reverts with too little discussion. Since this is recent and their broader history seems more constructive, I think they should be given a chance to change this behavior, but it seems they may need a reminder that edit warring is not limited to 1RR/3RR. — xDanielx /C\ 18:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Iskandar323: yes the 1RR violation Selfstudier pointed out is clear, but it involved a ~21 hour gap, and ABHammad self-reverted when it was pointed out. Seems like a timing error. Regarding the other instance, I'm not sure this would be considered a revert? It seems like any deletion might technically fit under the broad definitions of reverts given in WP:3RR and elsewhere, but at least there wasn't a specific recent change being reverted here (the closest seems to be this, almost a month ago). — xDanielx /C\ 21:17, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vegan416

    I object to this AE request as I had objected to the AE request against Nishidani. In this case, it is clear that Levivich is just trying to push his extreme eliminationist anti-Zionist views, exemplified by his statement "We are witnessing the last gasps of Zionism".

    @ScottishFinnishRadish: I'll just put here a fuller quote of Levivich here: "The return of left-wing parties to power is just one election away, and settlement dismantlement will soon follow. We are witnessing the last gasps of Zionism". It looks to me that he wishes for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israel which he regards as a colonial "settlement". Of course, if I misunderstood him he is welcome to clarify his words. Until that happens I don't see any reason to rephrase. Vegan416 (talk) 20:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Levivich: I notice that you still do not say explicitly that you do not wish for the end of Zionism. And when you promote the view that Israel is the outcome of settler-colonialism and then speak of "settlement dismantlement" in the singular it is natural to think you are talking about dismantling of Israel. All in all, your language here about the last gasps of Zionism, which is completely disconnected from reality, doesn't sound like a report about reality, but rather as wishful thinking that reminds one of Iranian rhetoric like that one "Israel Drawing Its Last Breaths, Says Iranian Commander Behind Foiled Drone Attack" (update: especially when you link it to the "last gasps of Zionism"). And thanks for reminding me of your false accusations about my entering a debate just to bludgeon it, including some fancy libelous hints (which I refuted) about how I came into that discussion in the first place. I still ask for an apology for that. Vegan416 (talk) 21:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
    In answer to various new comments: 1. I reject the false accusation of McCarthyism. I didn't say that any administrative actions should be taken against Levivich. In fact, as I have proven in the recent Nishidani AE, I am firmly against taking administrative actions against editors, even when their opinions are loathsome to me, and even when their behavior is problematic (except for cases of extreme abuse, which none of the involved parties here, from either side, seems to be implicated in). 2. I only say that when someone is trying to initiate administrative actions to suppress other editors, as Levivich does here, it is worth considering his motivations when evaluating the case. 3. We can see that one veteran editor here explicitly wishes for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israeli society, and another veteran editor seems to see that as a legitimate wish. So the possibility that yet another veteran editor holds this view is not far-fetched, and Levivich himself still uses equivocal language about this issue. Despite that, I'm willing to give Levivich himself the benefit of the doubt, so I stroke some of the words in my initial comment. Vegan416 (talk) 06:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Levivich: 1. "Nobody said anything about dismantling Israeli society". Apparently, you missed RolnaldR statement here: "And, for the avoidance of any doubt, I do wish for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israel's colonial settler society." 2. Your argument about trolling is just as false. This is a serious argument. 3. If you felt that my statement was drawing focus from your request, then you could just ignore it. After all, we humble editors don't have any vote in here, only the admins. Or you could simply have said from the beginning that you don't wish for the end of Zionism. That would have finished the discussion. That's what I do when I think someone attributes to me something that I don't think. Instead, you are just lengthening the discussion with your still evasive language. Vegan416 (talk) 14:51, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Levivich: You are continuing the discussion even as you complain that it is a distraction. I responded to you on my talk page here, so that you don't falsely accuse me of bludgeoning and trolling again, and I suggest that we continue the discussion there if you are interested. Vegan416 (talk) 16:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    @Starship.paint: As for your question - I didn't say that anyone should be blocked from requesting AE. But if someone asks to "punish" editors who oppose his views, then I think his motives should be considered when deciding whether to accept his request. And I see that in the recent AE request about Nishsidani, there was a discussion about the motives of the complainer, and it didn't look irrelevant to most participants. But anyway, I trust the admins to decide what they consider relevant. And if they think that my argument is irrelevant then they will ignore it. Which is fine by me. And with that I end my participation in this discussion here (unless someone will insist on involving me again).

    Statement by KoA

    Not involved in the subject, and honestly I've been at odds with Levivich with behavioral things in the past, but it's apparent to even me that Vegan416's comments here towards Levivich are pretty inflammatory as a sort of potshot/aspersion or an attempt at a rhetorical gotcha as Levivich describes it. That does come across to me as Vegan416 being at least one editor raising the temperature in this topic. There's a clear WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude in those comments, and usually CT designations are meant to help keep such editors out of controversial areas.

    Even I know referencing Zionism is a charged word that anyone editing the topic should know better than to use it loosely in rhetoric. Maybe Levivich's "last gasp" comment had a tinge of a POV to it or was a little forumy, but the way Vegan416 grabbed onto the Zionism mention to make a leap to assertions on dismantling Israel and asserting that in a "Maybe I'm wrong, but . . . " style comment without evidence really rubs me the wrong way. I do feel like you'd have to have a chip on your shoulder to make that jump from what I'm actually reading in Levivich's comments. If Levivich was actually doing what Vegan416 claims (I sure don't see it), then they would have presented actual evidence of it and how that has affected the topic rather than the type of assertions I'm seeing here. Instead, Vegan's comments to ScottishFinnishRadish leave me concerned they'd just double down in the future instead. KoA (talk) 22:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Nableezy

    We are not supposed to be discussing our own or others personal political beliefs, but I for one find outrageous the McCarthyist I notice that you still do not say explicitly that you do not wish for the end of Zionism, and further object to the idea that wishing such a thing is somehow either relevant or incompatible with participation here. So what if he does wish that? You ever wonder why we have no Palestinian editors in this topic area? Things like this. nableezy - 23:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    "... Iranian rhetoric like that one 'Israel Drawing Its Last Breaths, Says Iranian Commander Behind Foiled Drone Attack.'" Subtle! Dan Murphy (talk) 23:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by RolandR

    It is not only Levivich that believes that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the Zionist project. In a recent article in New Left Review, Israeli historian Ilan Pappé argues that "We are witnessing a historical process – or, more accurately, the beginnings of one – that is likely to culminate in the downfall of Zionism." Vegan416 is entitled to disagree with this assessment, but not to smear and delegitimise anyone who shares it. And, for the avoidance of any doubt, I do wish for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israel's colonial settler society. It is a perfectly legitimate belief. RolandR (talk) 00:29, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Iskandar323

    Aside from the general behaviours mentioned, including a lot of reverting, aren't there two very specific instances of very clear and very knowingly performed WP:1RR breaches on templated pages after the user was aware? The first is mentioned by SelfStudier, and the second is visible in the two diffs provided by Levivich, both on the 23 June. That appears to be two blatant breaches in as many months. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:24, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

    @XDanielx: The edit summaries make it plain that they were reverting content based on a disagreement. And yes, material added a month ago counts, especially when it has been contested and is part of a slow-motion edit war. Iskandar323 (talk) 21:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
    @ScottishFinnishRadish: The 2x 1RR breach in just over a month has been noticed right? Back in my day, phew one could get in trouble for that. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    It's hard to see how Hammad's doggedly persistent habit of drive-by mass revision and edit warring (with often little to no talk page engagement) can be considered constructive or collegiate, and given the persistence of such behaviours even during this AE, how they are expected to refrain from such behaviours with only a slap on the wrist. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning ABHammad

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • The edit-warring is concerning, but more concerning is what appears to be removal or negation of a priori reliable sources without apparent justification besides ideological leaning. ABHammad, your entire argument as presented here appears to be that your conduct was justified because you believe yourself correct on the ideological issues, which is not a persuasive argument if you wish to continue editing this topic. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
      @SFR, my concern above is almost independent of the number of reverts; ABHammad is bringing a battleground attitude to this topic, which to me indicates they're not going to be a net positive within it. I think a logged warning for battleground conduct is the minimum we should consider: tag-teaming is secondary to me (and much harder to legislate against, as you say). Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      Vanamonde93, if you'd like to see a topic ban, the real issue here is a group of veteran editors pushing an anti-Israeli viewpoint on Misplaced Pages, promoting controversial views as encyclopedic facts, and threatening those who oppose them is enough to get me there, as that is plain battleground editing. I just think we need to be holding everyone to these standards. This is not an uncommon type of statement, and the topic is full to the brim with battleground mentality. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:41, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      I'm okay with a logged warning, and won't advocate for a TBAN given that you are BK49 appear to be less in favor of one. But I think the emphasis needs to be on the battleground issues, not tag-teaming as such. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    Discussion about Vegan416
    • Vegan416, perhaps you'd like to rephrase Levivich is just trying to push his extreme eliminationist anti-Zionist views, exemplified by his statement "We are witnessing the last gasps of Zionism". ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
      I have topic banned Vegan416 from the Arab/Israel conflict, broadly construed for BATTLEGROUND editing, casting aspersions, and inappropriate politicization. I'm still stewing on the actual report. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:09, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I've read some but not all of what's going on here and hope to have time to fully catch up on this. However, I share ‌Levivich's concern about the comment And still above all you simply refuse to say the simple words "I don't wish for the end of Zionism". Why is that?. I hesitate to suggest one absent the fuller context, and about an editor who this report isn't filed about but feel confident in that assessment. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Having now looked into this, my analysis largely agrees with that on Vanamonde. I think there has been enough good faith efforts at collobartive editing to merit a logged warning rather than a harsher sanction. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
      To be clear, the conduct I would like to warn about is the battleground attitude for the reasons Vanamonde has pointed out on 22 July and 26 July. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:54, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      Selfstudier what diff is being restored? Because whatever it is is more than weeks old which seems like an inappropriate amount of time to restore a diff from without a talk page consensus. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      This is important to me. Because acting like this while at AE is very troubling for me because as it stands now I see that edit as battleground conduct in multiple ways. It makes me lean towards a topic ban rather than a warning. Barkeep49 (talk) 21:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I'm fine with a warning for this, but if we're going to start treating single reverts to an article after someone on the same "side" has reverted as edit warring we'll need to hold everyone to that standard. There was concern above about even application of ECR, and this is going to open a much larger can of worms than that. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:52, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      Levivich, taking Israel and apartheid from your examples to illustrate what I'm saying, we see that Selfstudier has reverted twice and Makeandtoss once . The current consensus version seems to match the POV of ABHammad and האופה. How many other articles where Makeandtoss and Selfstudier have both reverted the same content do you think I would find? How many times did would consensus eventually be against their position? Should we warn them for edit warring or POV violations because of this? If we're going to warn someone over this behavior then everyone needs to meet that standard. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:47, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      Selfstudier, the current consensus falls closer to what was reverted here, which is what I was pointing out. I'm not saying you should be on the hook, but that if we're going to start looking at reverts broadly like this we'll find it all over the place. As to your question the real issue here is a group of veteran editors pushing an anti-Israeli viewpoint on Misplaced Pages, promoting controversial views as encyclopedic facts, and threatening those who oppose them is bad, and that should certainly be part of any warning, but if you want action on your edit blatantly promotes false information then, again, that will need to be enforced topic-wide. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:18, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      Levivich, I'm echoing what was said by other admins up the page a bit about consistency of enforcement. I'm not saying don't do anything about this, I'm saying that when we do and the next report shows up showing a pattern of editors making the same or similar reverts across multiple pages we can't just shrug it off. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
      How do we feel about a warning for battleground conduct and 0rr? Or just a topic ban? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Ytyerushalmi

    Ytyerushalmi (talk · contribs) is indefinitely topic banned from the Arab/Israel conflict, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Ytyerushalmi

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:40, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ytyerushalmi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Extended confirmed restriction, 500/30 rule
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    These two edits were made after I notified him about the 500/30 rule 16:13, 25 July 2024 , I also asked him to self revert which he declined:



    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 16:13, 25 July 2024
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Ytyerushalmi

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Ytyerushalmi

    According to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles the article should be - "reasonably construed" as in -

    "4) For the purposes of editing restrictions in the
    ARBPIA
    topic area, the "area of conflict" shall be defined as encompassing
    1. the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted ("primary articles"), and
    2. edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace ("related content")"

    Is Or Sasson the related to the Arab-Israeli conflict? If so, then Judo, Clothing and any other article on Misplaced Pages is related in one way or another to the Arab-Israeli conflict. If one follows your edits, it is clear as day that you are trying to erase as many as possible mentions of Israel. As seen, you reverted my edit to Ori Sasson and Doms in Israel although both Articles are not related to the Conflict. Also, you tried to frame Hanadi Jaradat, a known terrorist, using the ambiguous term "militant" while her actions were objective terrorism.

    Being disputed doesn't change the fact that it is de-facto a part of The State of Israel and under its sovereignty, so he was born in Israel. Again, whether disputed or not, it is a fact that relates to him.

    I removed it from the Dom article because it is not related to the Doms themselves and there's no need to mention it as it discussed further in the subject of the West Bank itself.
    Again, as these two articles are not a part of the Arab-Israeli conflict nor the edits were relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict but to the subjects themselves, and therefore, not under the Arbitration rule, I will not revert.

    If his request is accepted, then each and every namespace with the mention of Israel/Palestine and Any Arab country or any other country which had interaction with the region or the entities above and every object, physical or not, geographical or not, that is directly or indirectly related to any of the mentioned entities above should be under the Extended confirmed protection.

    • Oh no I understand, it just seems very absurd considering the edit and the subjects. If you would check, for other subjects which are an actual part of the conflict, such as Hanadi Jaradat, I did not revert his changes.Ytyerushalmi (talk) 17:00, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

    Regarding Selfstudier - It doesn't seem like you appear to be in an objective position to recommend.

    Statement by Selfstudier

    One more in what is turning into a procession of non EC editors contesting without merit WP:ARBECR restrictions. The talk page discussion following the awareness notice is in addition sufficient reason for a sanction. Selfstudier (talk) 16:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Ytyerushalmi

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    KlayCax

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning KlayCax

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Prcc27 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    KlayCax (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:CTOP
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. July 21st, 2024 Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to infobox.
    2. June 18th, 2024 Added Cornell West to infobox without consensus.
    3. May 16th, 2024 Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to infobox.
    4. May 13th, 2024 Added RFKJR to infobox without consensus.
    5. March 6th, 2024 Added RFKJR to infobox without consensus.
    6. February 27th, 2024 Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to the infobox.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. December 15th, 2023 Block for edit-warring on Joe Biden article/arbitration decision enforced.
    2. October 7th, 2023 Partial block for edit-warring.
    3. November 4th, 2023 Blocked for edit-warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on July 27th, 2022 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    KlayCax has started several different discussions and made actual edits pushing for third party candidates (especially RFKJR) to be added to the infobox. The July 21st discussion literally was started while discussions on the matter were already ongoing (). They have continuously been trying to add Kennedy to the infobox, even though the matter has already been resolved . The addition of Cornell West went against the ballot access and polling criteria spelled out in the consensus for state infoboxes. We should not have to have a discussion with KlayCax every month explaining that there is no consensus for adding Kennedy at this stage. They have been told their behavior is disruptive, but nonetheless they have persisted. Prcc27 (talk) 00:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to KlayCax: To clarify, this is not an RfC (you just claimed it was in your statement). We came up with a consensus for state infoboxes at the main article’s talk page: 5%+ polling average and ballot access. Cornell West has never had a polling average of 5%+ in Michigan. The main issue regarding you adding West to the infobox is you added someone that is not even on the ballot in Michigan and is polling poorly. This has nothing to do with polling consistency; West has consistently polled below 5%. Prcc27 (talk) 15:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    Response to KlayCax: Wrong again. Your May 13th edit was made after this RfC was closed on May 12th. Nevertheless, it was clear even before that RfC that consensus was against inclusion. Prcc27 (talk) 19:47, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    Response to @Red-tailed hawk: I believe David O. Johnson was the user that was initially planning on reporting KlayCax. But since that user appears to be busy, I offered to take over and make the report in their place. (Please see: ). Prcc27 (talk) 03:16, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    Comment: As far as sanctions go, I think KlayCax should either be topic banned, or given KlayCax’s disruptive actions are not isolated to only one topic, a ban that is more broad may be in order. Prcc27 (talk) 02:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning KlayCax

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by KlayCax

    Response to Prcc27's initial AE:

    To summarize:

    • Prcc27 is wrong to claim that my opinions violate the principle of WP: POV or that I'm pushing candidates into the infobox. On article after article, including most recently in the 2024 United Kingdom general election (I supported Sinn Féin, Reform UK, Democratic Unionist Party, and other parties being added) I have consistently have been an advocate of broadly displaying the candidates within election articles within the infobox. Differences of opinions among editors is normal. Particularly when it involves controversial subject matter such as the 2024 United States presidential election. Talk page discussion in these instances is a good thing. A look at the edits in question shows it was a good faith attempt to reach consensus. Not an attempt to overturn the RFC.
    • Furthermore, I was not "attempting" to overturn an "already... resolved ". At no point did I ever even attempt to overturn the RFC. It should be clear by the context that I was polling editors on whether the requirements of the RFC has been made. (As the criteria laid out has been noted by multiple editors as being heavily ambiguous and reliant on contradicting sources.) Because of this, I was clearly pinging involved editors to state that it appears that Kennedy Jr. has either met or was about to immediately meet the requirements of the RFC: being certified in a total amount of states that exceed 270 electoral votes and polling above 5%. The goal of the discussion was to see whether there was now a consensus to add.
    • Both Jill Stein and Cornell West are/were polling above 5% and had either reported by WP: RS or confirmed certified ballot access at the time the June 18th edit was made, it was a self-proclaimed WP: BOLD edit, and it was on the 2024 United States presidential election in Michigan article, not the 2024 United States presidential election article. Prcc27 favored a "three poll criteria + 5%" but there was nothing in the linked source to say that this was a consensus of editors. (Even under WP: ONUS) He then removed it, it was not reverted, and I don't feel particularly strong either way or another about West or Stein being in the infobox.
    • The Lukt64 and Sendpls user edits had nothing to do with discussions on whether the RFC was resolved. Rather, they were just requests to add RFK into the article, so this was not simply "spamming the same thing three times" as argued.

    Finally, many editors in mid-July stated that the issue needed to be revisited. The other aspects are clearly taken out of context and not rules violations. KlayCax (talk) 07:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to Prcc27's reply:

    The RFC was this.

    1.) I explained my reasoning at the time. Both Jill Stein and Cornell West have polled at or above 5% in Michigan. There was never a consensus on whether 5% should be an average or individual polls (since RFK has been the only one to get both it's not been approached at all outside of our conversations) and the matter was left to editor's discretion.

    2.) At the time, local newspapers wrongly reported West's ballot access statement as a fact in their own voice, as West had stated that he had been certified w/ ballot access at the time. (The newspapers in question were of course considered WP: RS and I was working off of that.) In terms of Jill Stein, she has ballot access in Michigan as a member of the Green Party.

    3.) Per WP: ONUS it was not reinstated. KlayCax (talk) 21:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to third Prcc27:

    Not true. On May 13th, "ballot access" was seen by many editors as having "had enough petitions" (as clearly visible), it was reverted, a talk page discussion ensured, and it was not reinstated by me per WP: ONUS. KlayCax (talk) 23:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to Muboshgu:

    Muboshgu's claims that I was violating WP: NPOV in the J.D. Vance and Kamala Harris articles. In response to this:

    I was not pushing any kind or sort of "left-wing" point of view in the J.D. Vance article — you seem to be arguing that I'm both violating WP: NPOV by promoting a disproportionate left (on Vance article) AND right-wing perspective (on Kamala article), and with all due respect: that doesn't make sense — by noting that he has been influenced by the Dark Enlightenment movement, a fact and description that he has also claimed and has been widely reported. It certainly does look like vandalism when it's not trimmed but removed from the article entirely. The entire notion that it is POV-pushing seems to be based on the claim that "his opinions on X or Y are unpopular so they shouldn't be in the article". That is of course not what WP: NPOV means. WP: NPOV is about reflecting the opinion of reliable sources. Not "doesn't improve or diminish their standing in the eyes of the median voter". Reliable sources have mentioned J.D. Vance's ties to the "dissent/edgy online right." It certainly does deserve mention on Misplaced Pages and reactionary thought is by no means too "obscure" a concept or too difficult to understand for readers.

    At the time, there was already a Wikilinks for readers who want more detail. I reached out on talk - as you noted - and a majority wanted it kept.

    Many American conservatives do use Marxism as an insult against those who hold left-wing economic positions. This is however clearly not what my edits were. Donald J. Harris is considered an economist in the post-Keynesian and Marxian schools of thought. His primary influences are Adam Smith, David Ricardo, and Karl Marx, is labeled a post-Keynesian and Marxian economist by multiple sources, and it's not POV-pushing to mention it, nor "fail verification". It's also typical to list the ideology of economists in the first sentence of the article. (See Richard D. Wolff for instance.) Explanations for both edits were also given on their respective talk pages before the start of the WP: AE.

    You left out that I also added at the same time a statement that, which undercuts the idea that Donald J. Harris influenced Kamala to any significant extent. (Donald J. Harris and Kamala Harris are notoriously not close and differ widely on politics.) The difference of the edit can be seen here showing that it was added in at the same time the diffs cited by him were. Are Marxists fans of the Democratic Party? No, of course not. All of this, again, is just differing editorial perspectives that led to discussion. KlayCax (talk) 21:16, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to SashiRolls:

    Edits in question.

    The June 12, 2024 edit was in regards to political parties rather than coalitions. Listing New Popular Front or its constituent parties would have been WP: CRYSTAL at the time due to the notorious fragmentation of the French left. The Deccan Herald source in question states: In France, currently there are two major parties in the running, among others. The first is the ruling party, Renaissance(RE), or En Marche! as it was earlier known. The hold the majority in the National Assembly, France's lower house and the Senate... In opposition is Marine Le Pen and her party, National Rally, a.k.a. Rassemblement National(RN). RN is a right wing populist party that recently gained a large number of seats in the 2024 EU elections.
    The February 26, 2024 edit was in reference to this article, which starts off by saying: In the often contentious and acrimonious debates over... (in regards to historians/political scientists over the matter.) What was being cited there wasn't the author's opinion on the matter. What was being referred was his meta-analysis of the the state of the literature as of 2023.
    The October 1, 2023 edit is sourced to an online survey. That is true. However, telephone surveys have become increasingly inaccurate in recent years due to low-response rates/other factors, with the differences between online/telephone survey accuracy sharply decreasing. Partisan polling is fine as long as it comes from a WP: RS. (See WP:LDS/RS for Deseret News) I also later replaced it with this higher-quality source seen here.

    Sourcing in question.

    The April 21, 2024 edit sourced The Spectator (WP:SPECTATOR), a WP:MREL, and followed the guidelines for a WP:RSOPINION right-wing view, attributing the view exclusively to Jeff Fynn-Paul.
    The September 20, 2023 edit doesn't make the claim. It states that the claim has been widely believed among sociologists. Those are two different claims with two very different meanings.

    Final concluding notes:

    I've been hesitant about mentioning this until now, and not sure what I can write on this outside of vague references, some of the individuals commenting in this thread have made personal attacks, false WP:SOCKPUPPET accusations, and similar things against me over the past year. I believe that some of the WP: AE comments are retaliatory in nature and that the WP: AE closer should keep that in mind. KlayCax (talk) 15:25, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

    I've reached the max word limit (~at 1500) to respond to every claim but it should be clear by the above that the claims are baseless/throwing the kitchen sink. KlayCax (talk) 16:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Qutlook

    :It may also be noted that KlayCax has been warned in the past on other articles for deceptive editing and has been given a “Final Warning” by ScottishFinnishRadish. Just FYI and my two cents for the time being. Qutlooker (talk) 04:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    This has already been stated in the head, please disregard. Qutlooker (talk) 18:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    (Response to Left guide's first statement) Yes, I did do that complaint. HOWEVER, I did not have the diffs of which people were talking about. So I did not open a case. Qutlooker (talk) 14:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    (Response to Super Goku V’s second statement) Maybe it would be best to clarify that I was told if I wanted disciplinary action against KlayCax I would need to open an AE. Though, as stated, I did not have the diffs that would be needed to properly open an AE request. Qutlooker (talk) 03:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    (Response to KlayCax's bulletpoint No. 5) An outlier poll does not, and WOULD NOT argue enough for an inclusion into the infobox, nor does a party "claiming" to have ballot access mean anything until it is fact-checked and proven by factual sources. Qutlooker (talk) 20:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    (Response to Prcc27’s comment) May it be considered that an indefinite block be done considering you have said that it is not only one topic they interact with. Qutlooker (talk) 04:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
    (Response to KlayCax) The max word limit you were told to be under was 1000 words. Not 1500. Qutlooker (talk) 16:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by David A

    I personally think that this editor seems well-intended and mostly harmless, so I hope that his punishment (if any) will not be unnecessarily harsh. Perhaps he can simply be ordered by a Misplaced Pages administrator to stop attempting to add West, Kennedy, and other minor candidates to the infobox? David A (talk) 09:15, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Left guide

    It's worth noting that less than a week ago, an apparently similar complaint was lodged at an admin's talk page by a user different from the filer of this request. Left guide (talk) 09:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    I ran KlayCax's section into the word count tool and the result was 1241 words, more than double the 500 limit. Left guide (talk) 00:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Muboshgu

    KlayCax has made disruptive POV edits at the 2024 US presidential election page as discussed. They have also been disruptive on other articles related to the election, including JD Vance, edit warring over some obscure political views. See Talk:JD Vance#Should there be a summary of Vance's ideology in the lead? for discussion they started after they were reverted. Also they made accusations of vandalism when a user removed information that should have been removed, and "apparent accident deletion/vandalism from WP: SPA. (?)". They also tried to add to Donald J. Harris and Kamala Harris that Donald Harris was involved in Marxism, which fails verification and is a significant POV term used by the right wing in today's US political situation. See Talk:Kamala Harris#Removal of Shyamala Gopalan and Donald J. Harris from the lead for more of that discussion. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by GreatCaesarsGhost

    I agree with David A that KlayCax is mostly harmless but deserves some sanction. My concern is they are not adhering to WP:RECKLESS. KlayCax is being too bold in making major edits that they know will be subject to revert or controversy. As I noted here they will sometimes act against established consensus due to evolving events that they deem have negated that consensus (when most others disagree). I do wish that they would acknowledge and reflect that criticism of their edits is coming from many editors. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Super Goku V

    There seems to be some confusion about the RfC that was mentioned due to how it was linked to, so to clear that up it is my understanding that the referenced RfC is "RFC: What should the criteria of inclusion be for the infobox? (Question 1)" --Super Goku V (talk) 03:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    To add, the below mentioned archived talk page discussion is relevant to this as it involved discussion on the 22nd and 23rd about KlayCax's talk page edits. There were comments that the appropriate venue was either ANI or AE. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to Left guide: Yes, that seems to be from this archived talk page discussion. Qutlook said at the time, After speaking to an admin who has warned KlayCax before for disruptive editing I have been told to do this... One Problem, I don't have those diffs so I don't currently have an open AE request. Not sure why he said he was told to do so, but it is related in my opinion. --Super Goku V (talk) 03:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to Qutlook: Gotcha. I will note above that the archived talk page discussion is still relevant to this discussion. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Response to KlayCax: Just to check, do you understand the word limits as noted at the top of this page? Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. My understanding is that you get 500 words total for your statements, not 500 words per statement. --Super Goku V (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Striking given the extension request. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by SashiRolls

    I agree that the problem is not related to the topic area. I'm not sure I would agree that KlayCax is entirely harmless after having had to spend a lot of time cleaning up after them.

    KCx is known for edit summaries which hide the nature of their edits:

    • 12 June 2024 -- While the edit summary is WP:MOS, in fact it introduces POV content not supported by the source supplied. Questioned about this, KCx later provided a link to the Deccan Herald on the TP, which also did not support the sweeping statement, though he wisely refrained from adding it to the entry after two people pointed out the claim he wanted to add to the first line of the lede was nonsense.
    • 26 February 2024 -- @Drmies: writes, "your edit summary makes no sense in relation to the actual edit, and your response is to repeat the same irrelevant citation, this time with a quote which also totally doesn't make your point." and four days later adds "It's just one deflection after another" further suggesting bringing the problem up at ANI for disussion of a topic ban. 2 March 2024

    KCx also seems to have trouble identifying reliable sources, beyond the Deccan Herald example cited above.

    • 21 April 2024: Adds back an opinion piece from The Spectator (Cf. its entry at RSN) as the second link in the lede of an entry, after it had been removed.
    • 1 October 2023 adds the results of an online survey conducted on behalf of Skylight, "an initiative of the Radiance foundation". The source states: "Skylight’s mission is to use technology to help young people embrace God-centered spiritual habits.
    • 1 October 2023 adds the same online survey to another top-level page, buried in an avalanche of text.
    • 20 Sept 2023: inserts the claim that the religion in the US is the final "death nail" of the secularization hypothesis based on an article that argues that this claim is empirically false (without using the term "death nail" of course). When questioned on it, he says that it's a poor source (not for the claim, but in general).

    Finally, KCx has a habit of creating RfC & RM that are snow-closed against the position they were promoting: Cf. here and here and insists on long discussions about RfCs past they disagree with (see the context of the 26 February 2024 diff above).

    I grant some of these diffs are a bit dated, but a pattern is clearly visible over the past year...-- SashiRolls 17:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

    12 June: The source KCx added didn't support their claim that the RN was one of two major political parties in France in any way. The Deccan Herald article found later is talking about one election. For context, the RN has three out of 348 senators (<1%).
    21 April: the second line of the lede says "Remini... states" something. KCx's "marginally reliable" source does not mention Remini even once. -- SashiRolls 16:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning KlayCax

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Please keep the word limits in mind and only comment in your own sections. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:51, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      Well, I'm not terribly impressed with the response to frequent warnings and blocks for edit warring being badgering and bludgeoning. This seems to be their general behavior whenever there is disagreement rather than isolated to one article or topic. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
      KlayCax, I suggest you condense down what you have already. I can tell you I don't find Marxian/Marxist economists see capitalism as being inherently tied to class conflict (albeit this can be repressed in their views through false consciousness) and subsequent exploitation. Many American conservatives do use it as an insult against those who hold left-wing economic positions. This is however clearly not what my edits were. It is an uncontroversial and demonstrable fact that Donald J. Harris is considered an economist in the post-Keynesian and Marxian schools of thought. His primary influences are Adam Smith, David Ricardo, and Karl Marx, he's been described as a post-Keynesian and Marxian economist by multiple sources, and it's not POV-pushing to mention it in the article. It certainly does not "fail verification" and I can provide over a dozen sources on the matter. Furthermore, you left out that I also added at the same time a statement that, which undercuts the idea that Donald J. Harris influenced Kamala to any significant extent. (Donald J. Harris and Kamala Harris are notoriously not close and differ widely on politics.) The diff of the edit can be seen here. Are you under the assumption that Marxists are fans of the Democratic Party? No, of course not. particularly useful. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Two things:
      1. @Prcc27: Can you explain why this was filed one week after the most recent edit that you've placed in the diff list?
      2. @KlayCax: If you would like an extension, please request one at Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. But otherwise, please condense down the comment a bit.
    — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    They asked for an extension on my talk page, and I told them to try and keep it under 1000 words. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    I had missed that. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    @KlayCax: You're still over the word limit extension by ~500 words. Please condense it, or hat intricate details. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 10:35, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
    Red-tailed hawk, have you had a chance to look this over yet? With their history of edit warring, and moving on to this IDHT/bludgeoning I'm thinking six month topic ban from the 2024 American presidential election might be the ticket. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:34, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

    SashiRolls appeal of AE Topic ban given in Sagecandor v. Tlroche

    SashiRolls topic ban against participating in AE discussions is rescinded. Per a rough consensus of uninvolved administrators, if there is any disruption at AE in the next 12 months any uninvolved administrator may reinstate the topic ban without further consensus. Procedural note: there was also consensus, including from the closing administrator, that the AE restriction listed as part of their unblock restrictions was not a separate community restriction and so no further community appeal was needed. Barkeep49 (talk) 21:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Appealing user
    SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) –
    Sanction being appealed
    AE Topic ban, imposed at Sagecandor v Tlroche
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    User talk:Timotheus Canens#AE appeal (Cirt case)


    I was topic-banned from AE (16 December 2016) as a result of making a comment warning about a sockpuppet of Cirt (Sagecandor), who was at the time massively weaponizing AE in order to take out political opponents (among other things).

    In retrospect, I would be surprised if anyone were to maintain that this was not a case of shooting the messenger. Since that time, some people have expressed their distaste for Wikipediocracy. Perhaps if en.wp's behavioural "courts" were less likely to sanction whistleblowers, there would be less reason for folks to show diffs of misbehaviour off-wiki rather than trusting internal processes.

    Today, with significant evidence to present in an active AE case, I find myself still gagged by this decision protecting former administrator Cirt's Sagecandor sockpuppet.

    Though I did request on 24 February 2019 that the admin remove the sanction, they declined to do so and, as such, I have scrupulously respected that AE ban by not participating in any cases to which I was not a named party. -- SashiRolls 13:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    The AE ban having been imposed at AE and having only been mentioned as a pre-existing topic ban, it can obviously be removed at AE, otherwise it would be double jeopardy for having spoken up about a rogue admin sockpuppeting weaponizing AE in 2016. There was absolutely no discussion of the TBAN in question at AN, therefore the "community" is not responsible for it in any way. -- SashiRolls 21:22, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    After 7.5 years served, this "parole" does not seem to be asking me to never again be found "injecting" unrelated matters evidence of a user's misbehaviour into an AE thread about someone else's that user's conduct. Is that correct? If that is correct, that's fine. If not, please explain further. -- SashiRolls 22:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    As with the dubious (EE) TBAN imposed in the AN close and then subsequently removed by the community, there won't be any problems from me. That I can promise. -- SashiRolls 22:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by KoA

    Posting here as an involved editor since I had to deal with a lot of the battleground issues Sashirolls caused at AE and in the GMO topic.

    1. Barkeep49 and Extraordinary Writ, seeing your conversation mentioning Sashirolls wanting to comment in the KlayCax thread above, wouldn't that be in violation of their AP2 topic ban anyways since that dispute seems to be entirely centered on the US election?

    2. What really caught my eye here though is Sashirolls' WP:NOTTHEM attitude about their sanction and related behavior. It's dismissive and avoids mentioning what else happened:

    • Dec 2016 (4 days after AE restriction), they were also blocked (6 months) for disruptive editing and wikihounding, which was closely tied to their AE actions/battleground behavior.
    • June 2017. After the block expires, they only go a few days until they are blocked for 1 year for continuing similar hounding issues.
    • May 2019. Sanctioned again for continued personal comments/battleground pursuit.
    The point here is that a series of related sanctions occurred closely tied to Sashirolls' pursuit of editors in AE and other venues. The way Sashirolls leaves that context out and dismisses the initial sanction is concerning. Sashirolls even links to their 2019 direct appeal to the admin where the sanctioning admin was clear You were sanctioned for the manner in which you expressed these concerns. . . and This sanction was imposed for injecting unrelated matters into an AE thread about someone else's conduct. . .. Similar comments came up when Sashirolls then appealed at AE that was unanimously rejected, I'd suggest admins review those discussions for more context since this is feeling like a repeat of those.
    The NOTTHEM issue came up in their 2020 site ban and appeal to return last year Like that ban appeal, they don't seem to show an understanding of why they were restricted from AE and instead show dismissal of the pursuit of editors problem claiming it was "shooting the messenger" instead. That's usually a sign the sanction is still needed to some degree, especially since they've had trouble not pursuing editors in the past (not getting into their full block/sanction list here). If that sanction had been a more isolated case given its age and the appeal wasn't so dismissive of the behavior that persisted after the initial sanction, then there would be more weight towards the sanction being unneeded. Instead, I'd have to echo what Volunteer Marek asked Sashirolls during an appeal; why would they want to comment at AE? That's especially given the guidance they were given after their site unban to stay away from CT topics. KoA (talk) 00:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Result concerning SashiRolls appeal of AE Topic ban given in Sagecandor v. Tlroche

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I'm probably open to repealing the topic ban completely, but will note that when filing a request someone is inherently a party so I do not think this tban would stop you from filing a request Sashi. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      It looks like SashiRolls wants to comment in the KlayCax thread. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:07, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      @SashiRolls: my suggestion is more "probation" than "parole" (words I both intentionally avoided when writing my thought). If there are no problems in 12 months, it all goes away. If there is disruption, the topic ban could be imposed. I would hope/expect that it would all go away, otherwise I wouldn't be supporting it. Barkeep49 (talk) 22:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    • This topic ban was later separately imposed by the community as an unban condition, so even if we lift the first one you'd still have to go back to AN for the second one. I'm not exactly thrilled with this appeal on the merits, but it might make the paperwork easier to just lift this topic ban and let the community sort it out from there. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:07, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      The community has the ability to undo the topic ban as well. So given this it seems like the community should just handle it all? Barkeep49 (talk) 21:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      That would work too. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      Sashi seems to prefer that AE undo the AE ban which is their right. Given your correction to me of what Sashi wants to do, I'm in favor of "on the merits" (the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed) repeal and as such the tone of the appeal is less bothersome to me. Barkeep49 (talk) 21:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      Ping to ScottishFinnishRadish about the community restriction. Was there consensus for the community to double up the AE topic ban or were you just summarizing all the restrictions in one place and so if AE repeals the topic ban, SashiRolls won't also need community approval? Barkeep49 (talk) 21:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      I see those as the conditions the community required for the unban. I don't know paperwork-wise if that means that the community assumed the topic ban or created their own. As I don't recall any specific discussion on that topic ban I'd say it's fair to call it just the AE tban. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:30, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
      I suppose I can support (no probation needed); this was an unusual sanction that didn't really fit the problem it was supposed to address, as became clear a few days later. But I don't at all agree with SashiRolls' portrayal of the original sanction as "shooting the messenger", "sanction whistleblowers" "protecting" sockpuppets, etc., and I agree with KoA that this persistent NOTTHEM attitude doesn't augur well for the future. Hopefully we're wrong. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    • I'd be OK to remove this AE TBAN, particularly given the context of what has happened thereafter. I do find the title a bit odd; we normally don't title AE complaints as X v. Y (though this might be some legacy thing?), but the title isn't relevant to the substance of the appeal. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Same. I also am in favour of repealing on the merits. To clarify, there are three ways to appeal: the community at WP:AN, a quorum of uninvolved admins here at WP:AE, or to ArbCom at WP:ARCA. Either of the former two would be fine for this appeal (the latter probably less so), so like others here, I see no issue with having AE as the venue. El_C 01:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Given KoA's feedback and the general consensus here, what are thoughts from other uninvolved admin of removing the TBAN but allowing an uninvolved administrator to reinstate it, if necessary, in the next 12 months. This is possible with a rough consensus here but isn't something normally open to individual admin (though I do think individual admin could cutoff further participation from Sashi in a given AE discussion where there's been discussion). Barkeep49 (talk) 14:51, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think a sort of probation here is warranted. The user was unblocked with a good number of conditions, and one has been successfully appealed one so far without any behavioral issues reported. I'm not seeing any evidence of malfeasance by SashiRolls post-2020 presented here, and the current trajectory of the user does not indicate that a parole restriction is necessary. Of course, if I am wrongo and the user does wind up showing persistent behavioral issues here after the topic ban is lifed outright, we can still partially block the user from this page as an ordinary admin action. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    • It seems like discussion has moved past this, but just to confirm: I don't think it's sensible to construe the unblock as requiring community review of the AE TBAN, and I think this is the proper venue for an appeal. I support removing the TBAN; time served + the revelation of sockpuppetry is enough for me. I'd be fine granting the appeal with or without B49's 12-month parole proposal. Either way, I echo the unblock discussion's suggestion that SR avoid contentious topics and this discussion's suggestion that disruption on this page is very likely to lead to a restored TBAN. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    Oleg Yunakov

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Oleg Yunakov

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    RAN1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Oleg Yunakov (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 21:57, 27 July 2024: Graphic war image and copyright violation (NSFW) removed from article by third-party.
    2. NSFW: 13:15, 28 July 2024: Oleg Yunakov reinserts the image.
    3. 15:19, 28 July 2024 and 15:42, 28 July 2024: I remove the image as copyvio.
    4. Extended discussion under complaints about the image being too graphic.
      16:13, 28 July 2024: Oleg Yunakov knew the image was uploaded to Commons the day before the first revert after comparing the time with other sources. RAN1 (talk) 02:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
    5. NSFW: 17:48, 28 July 2024: Oleg Yunakov reinserts the image again, violating 1RR.
    6. 18:05, 28 July 2024: Oleg Yunakov knew the image was published in Misplaced Pages the day before the first revert. RAN1 (talk) 02:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Participated in process about the area of conflict (such as a request or appeal at AE, AN or an Arbitration Committee process page), on 02:14, 7 July 2024.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The image is clearly an upload from social media: Different crops were posted on e.g. X on X that show bystanders at the top (added 14:51, 29 July 2024 (UTC)) which could not be derivatives of the image uploaded to Commons. Since this is a copyright violation, I removed it as exempt from 1RR. Oleg Yunakov disputed it, and after deciding my exemption reason was invalid, proceeded to revert and violate 1RR.

    I should mention that before I found out that Oleg Yunakov participated at AE, I reported this to ANEW. I withdrew that report before requesting here. RAN1 (talk) 20:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
    After Oleg Yunakov reverted to bring back the copyvio, I couldn't find a CT alert and the process diff I linked above didn't turn up in search because it was self-reverted. I did find a 1RR warning from a month ago (see here), but I didn't think that counted for awareness, so I ended up sending a CT alert and reporting to ANEW. Then I found the process diff. That's my bad, but reverting to bring back an NSFW suspected copyvio image, after being warned, is abusive at best. RAN1 (talk) 01:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish: No, I did not warn 1RR or ask for a self-revert because of the previous discussion here. RAN1 (talk) 15:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Oleg Yunakov: My understanding was your notifications sent you about here, which was obviously not the bottom of the page, so I found it hard to believe you didn't know there was a previous dispute. That convinced me that you knew you had reverted somebody else when you reverted me. I don't know what else you could have understood from being pinged to the first section. RAN1 (talk) 08:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

    @Oleg Yunakov: I just found out you're a prolific uploader to Commons (contribs), you are well aware that only the creator of a photo can license it, and of the differences between creator-uploaded photos and plagiarized ones. I'm incredulous you think that image isn't a copyvio. As for the talk page, the fact that you replied to the bottom of the first section is not an assumption. RAN1 (talk) 18:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

    I've amended my complaint to include diffs where Oleg Yunakov discusses when the image was uploaded and published. They show that Oleg Yunakov knew the image had been published in Misplaced Pages before the first revert around the time of the second. RAN1 (talk) 02:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    20:09, 28 July 2024

    Discussion concerning Oleg Yunakov

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Oleg Yunakov

    The info was provided here. Those continuous actions start to look like a harassment (1, 2, 3, 4). With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 20:13, 28 July 2024 (UTC) Till now still there is no confirmation of copyright issues or at least copies found which were published before the time when an image was uploaded to Commons as can be seen here. If someone thinks otherwise please provide reasoning why. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 18:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC) Also I did only one addition and just one revert after no valid argument were given on the copyright violation. Did no do any reverts after it. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 18:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
    RAN1: You understanding is incorrect. My main wiki is ruwiki and here I spend a very little time. I didn't check prior history of edits and only read what you wrote to me and any subsequential discussion. You could mention that there were prior reverts and not to assume things like your assumption that the image is copyvio when no one was able to provide any earlier posts of the image till now. If you perform two reverses and refuse to undo when being asked do no assume that others are like this as well. I usually speak and listen to the arguments and would revert if I see that any rule is violated. If that wouldn't be the case I'd not be a ruwiki sysop for many years and arbcom member and many other things. Communication is a great tool. But this was a good learning experience and now I know how to file arbcom requests here. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 11:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by BilledMammal

    First, the exemption only applies to "clear copyright violations". This is not a clear violation, being based solely on RAN1's suspicions, so it doesn’t apply here - RAN1 should not have violated 1RR, and should have self-reverted when asked.

    Second, RAN1 did not follow the gentleman’s agreement by asking Oleg to self-revert before coming here.

    I think a boomerang is appropriate. BilledMammal (talk) 23:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Oleg Yunakov

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    GreekParadise

    GreekParadise partial blocked for one week by ScottishFinnishRadish. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:18, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning GreekParadise

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    GreekParadise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    1RR
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 19:47, 1 August 2024 Ads US recognition in lead of article.
    2. 15:00, 1 August 2024 Ads US recognition in lead of article.
    3. 14:28, 1 August 2024 Ads US recognition in lead of article.
    4. 13:37, 31 July 2024 Ads US recognition in lead of article.
    5. 03:25, 31 July 2024 Ads US recognition in lead of article.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    Was notified before:


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified

    Discussion concerning GreekParadise

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by GreekParadise

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning GreekParadise

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Astropulse

    Astropulse (talk · contribs) blocked for one week from Hamas for violating 1RR. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Astropulse

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    BilledMammal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:16, 3 August 2024 (UTC)


    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Astropulse (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Violated WP:1RR at Hamas with 13:16, 1 August 2024 which reinstated several earlier reverts, with the justification reverting because of violation of WP:3RR and 1 edit revert max 24hrs. The most self-evident of these reverts is 06:19, 1 August 2024, which reverted 20:46, 31 July 2024.

    They have refused to self-revert or discuss further, saying that consensus is required to restore the previous content. My assessment of the talk page discussion is that consensus is against their edit.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 4 July 2024
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Astropulse has now, rather than self-reverting, expanded one of the sections their revert affected, making it harder for them to self-revert. BilledMammal (talk) 03:36, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
    Astropulse, this wasn’t your only revert, just the most self-evident. BilledMammal (talk) 05:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    02:14, 3 August 2024

    Discussion concerning Astropulse

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Astropulse

    I have explained my reasoning on my talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Astropulse
    There is already discussion about this here https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Hamas#Neutrality
    BilledMammal is not involved in any of these discussion. People are okay with the current version. We are debating on how to include details about oct 7 attacks without violating NPOV
    Edits in question is an attempt to fix NPOV issues flagged by other editors.

    some consensus reached here : quoting replies from article talk page

    I don't think the article currently needs an NPOV tag, and I would support its removal. Hemiauchenia (talk)
    After the latest edits I agree, although I still think the original edit that emphasised the war crimes and stated the background to the ongoing war was a better article Stratojet94 (talk)
    +1 FortunateSons (talk)

    Astropulse (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    • What do you want me to revert to? You want me to revert to a version that violated NPOV ? please read the hammas talk page. latest replies by Hemiauchenia, Stratojet94 and FortunateSons. Good progress has been made to resolve the differences. People agree, current version is better and we are close to remove the NPOV tag. We are still ironing out few last pieces. Astropulse (talk) 02:32, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      quoting replies from article hammas talk page
      I don't think the article currently needs an NPOV tag, and I would support its removal. Hemiauchenia (talk)
      After the latest edits I agree, although I still think the original edit that emphasised the war crimes and stated the background to the ongoing war was a better article Stratojet94 (talk)
      +1 FortunateSons (talk) Astropulse (talk) 02:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      @ScottishFinnishRadish people has made further edits to fix issues in my edit. BilledMammal is not the involved editor. Im tagging @Hemiauchenia whose edit i reverted. I think we resolved most of the differences. Please confirm. BilledMammal is claiming i need to revert this ] Astropulse (talk) 02:42, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      @Hemiaucheniawe have some consensus from some other people about current version. reverting all changes will take more time to resolve the NPOV. We should work to resolve issue by making further edits not reverting to old version. Astropulse (talk) 03:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      Please see WP:DRNC and WP:DOREVERT Astropulse (talk) 03:23, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      @ ScottishFinnishRadish Please see WP:DRNC and WP:DOREVERT - i think this discussion should be closed as per WP:PRESERVE and make further edits to make improvements. Astropulse (talk) 03:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      I still maintain i only did one revert ]. this edit ] is minor - even though appear to be a revert - it is an edit because this tag is no longer needed as no more edits were made on that topic Astropulse (talk) 03:56, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      Also i want to confirm the edit i reverted ] is as per wiki policies.
      It says in WP:3RR that "A series of consecutively saved reverting edits by one user, with no intervening edits by another user, counts as one revert." But here there were intervening edits made by other user ] Is this revert ] by Hemiauchenia still count as one revert? Astropulse (talk) 04:21, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
      @ScottishFinnishRadish
      I acknowledge that my edit technically constituted a 1RR violation, and I apologize for any confusion it caused. My primary intention was to address the NPOV concerns raised by multiple editors on the talk page. My edits were aimed at improving the article and aligning it with Misplaced Pages’s neutrality standards.
      As noted in the talk page discussions, there is a developing consensus that the current version, which includes my edits and subsequent adjustments by other editors, is an improvement over the previous version.
      Given this context, I propose that we continue to refine the article collaboratively rather than reverting to an earlier version that still had unresolved neutrality issues.
      I understand the importance of adhering to the 1RR rule, I will take more time to read it fully. But i think we should balance it with other policies. Also i have not involved in edit warring with BilledMammal. If there is a problem - i think it is with Hemiauchenia - who has not made this Enforcement request.
      I have no further comments on this matter. Do what you feel is right. Astropulse (talk) 18:49, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Hemiauchenia

    I am confused. The accused made some edits to the Hamas page, I did a reversion back to a previous version before these edits were made (as I was entitled to do under the 1RR). The accused then reverted my reversion under mistaken logic that I was violating the 1RR. As far as I am aware, they did not make a revert on the page prior to that during the previous 24 hour period, so I assumed that they were entitled to make that revert under the 1RR even if their logic was wrong. Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Okay I get it, they did make a technical (not clearly demarked) revert several hours prior, though the actual content change was pretty minor. I agree that they did violate the 1RR. One issue is that the changes to the lead will have to be reverted manually (I am okay with my edits being undone as part of this, as they were partially restoring the previous version anyway). Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    Regarding Astropulse's "consensus reached here : quoting replies from article talk page", since Stratojet94 is not extendedconfirmed and should not be participating in that discussion, their views have no bearing on assessments of consensus. That statement should probably be struck out. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:45, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by FortunateSons

    There is also this gem. It’s not catastrophic or anything, but I think it’s clearly over the line, particularly within a Contentious Topic. FortunateSons (talk) 08:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Astropulse

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    O.maximov

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning O.maximov

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Levivich (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    O.maximov (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    On Aug 3, O.maximov reinstated one of ABHammad's edits. (ABHammad received a 0RR restriction at Jul 31 20:52, see #ABHammad.)

    • O.maximov Aug 3 edit 1 at Israel
      • O.maximov changed were expelled by Jewish and then Israeli forces or fled to were expelled or fled due to various causes with the edit summary last consensual version of this before weight changes
      • However, this is not the "last consensual version." In this edit, O.maximov reinstated an edit by ABHammad June 23 that introduced the various causes language, changing were expelled or made to flee, by paramilitaries and later its military, an expulsion known as the Nakba to were expelled or made to flee due to various causes. This edit was changed by Nableezy on Jul 31 15:34 to were expelled by Jewish and then Israeli forces or fled from the territory Israel would come to control.
      • There has been discussion about this line since May at Talk:Israel/Archive 105#Nakba in the lede, and a pending RFC at Talk:Israel#RFC: How should the Nakba described?
      • The "due to various causes" language is whitewashing via WP:WEASEL words, an example of Nakba denial. "Various causes" is a dogwhistle for debunked theories like "they left voluntarily" or "their leaders told them to leave," intended to distract from the actual cause, which is violence by the Yishuv.

    Other similar issues:

    My first complaint was at ABHammad's talk page (O.maximov was pinged): User talk:ABHammad#Enough already. My second complaint was at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336#Nishidani in July, which I notified O.maximov about on their user talk page. My third complaint was at #ABHammad (O.maximov was pinged).

    Aside from the tag-team edit warring, the edit summaries are not accurate, and the edits push a pro-Israeli POV. Levivich (talk) 18:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    No previous sanctions AFAIK, but multiple user talk page threads: User talk:O.maximov#March 2024, User talk:O.maximov#May 2024, User talk:O.maximov#WP:1RR at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, User talk:O.maximov#June 2024, User talk:O.maximov#prior accounts, User talk:O.maximov#Editing against a clear consensus

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    alert, response

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint


    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Special:Diff/1238598820

    Discussion concerning O.maximov

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by O.maximov

    Statement by Nableezy

    We had a previous consensus on this material and edit warring without a new one should result in sanctions for disruptive editing. Full stop. nableezy - 19:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish Talk:Israel/Archive 80#new paragraph on conflict for lead nableezy - 12:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by ABHammad

    This is the second time this month I have seen Levivich doing what seems like a weaponization of this noticeboard against editors who do not share their point of view based on their politics (and they are unsuprisingly joined by others). Previously, they accused me and other editors of tag teaming—a very serious allegation—without providing substantial evidence. While I received a 0RR sanction (rightfully), their tag teaming allegations were dismissed. Going over the new allegations, I don't see anything close to a sanctionable violation of anything. It's all content disputes that can and should be solved through discussions. But, I don't see any attempt by Levivich to do so, nor did they even try to discuss the issues with O.maximov personally. And the above claims about 'previous consensus on this material' are clearly false (if anything is happening on ARBPIA right now is forced controversial changes that take place without any attempt to achieve consensus). I think it might be time to consider sanctions of the WP:Boomerang sort. ABHammad (talk) 12:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning O.maximov

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Nableezy, which material are you talking about? The Nakba in the lead of Israel?I'm seeing some fairly straightforward partisan editing, but not anything severely out of the norm in the topic. Although that is a bit concerning, I'm more interested in where their editing has violated established consensus. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:55, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

    Givengo1

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Givengo1

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    The Kip (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:50, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Givengo1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    User initially made these two edits to the Current Events portal:

    1. 19:24, 1 August - Changes wording/content on two Israel-Hamas war current event blurbs
    2. 19:42, 1 August - Does the same (including saying an Israeli civilian was "liquidated" rather than "killed")

    I then issued the standard CTOP alert and ARBPIA welcome/ECR notification. They did not respond/acknowledge, then started editing again on the topic:

    1. 02:41 4 August - Additions to a passage regarding Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank
    2. 03:53 4 August - More content changes, multiple replacements of "Israel" with "the Israeli regime"
    3. 21:24 4 August - Comparatively minor, but replaces Arab-Israeli conflict with Israeli-Palestinian conflict
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    N/A - albeit, see #1 below?

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    Made aware on 1 August.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    1. Based on similar areas of interest, POV, and especially the wording of edit summaries, I suspect this editor may be this IP, who was previously blocked in May for two weeks after similar ECR violations. I asked the user about it, but they didn't respond.
    2. Outside of the ECR violations, the user seems to edit with a distinct POV; their edits have often seemed to downplay/euphemize Islam-related violence/controversy ("Acid attacks" to "Acid-related incidents," "Islamic dress" to "modest dress," "Islamist/ic" to "religious" or "fundamentalist,") while heavily emphasizing anti-Islamic and/or Middle Eastern violence/controversy (prior Mannheim stabbing edits regarding the far-right organizers, "conquests" to "invasions,", "hold on to" to "continue occupying," some rather blunt/POV descriptions). While I'll openly admit that, in my opinion, some of these changes aren't entirely wrong, simply changing the wording to one's POV without good reason/sourcing isn't the way to go about it.
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Givengo1

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Givengo1

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Givengo1

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    1. Make any edits to articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted; nor
    2. Make edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace.
    The sole exception to this is to make properly formatted edit requests on a talk page. Editors ordinarily receive the extended confirmed user right when they have contributed 500 edits and their account has been open for 30 days.You were first informed about this restriction on 1 August at 19:56 UTC, but proceeded to make several edits that are broadly related to the relevant topic area after being informed of the restriction.Would you please explain, in your own words, why you believe making these edits was or was not appropriate, in light of the restriction?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)