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Revision as of 21:15, 23 November 2014 view sourceGamaliel (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Administrators93,886 edits →Statement by Gamaliel: another frivolous charge from TDA← Previous edit Revision as of 21:25, 23 November 2014 view source DungeonSiegeAddict510 (talk | contribs)821 edits →Statement by DungeonSiegeAddict510Next edit →
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::I see people are twisting my words as usual. I did not deny off-wiki collaboration. I did not deny people on both sides have been harassed (from Zoe Quinn, to Milo Yianoupolis). I'm saying I find it hard to believe how Wikidiffs = doxxing other editors. Haven't i already proclaimed my disgust at the trolls and harassers? And furthermore, I'd like to stop being indirectly called a misogynist. I firmly believe society should be egalitarian and meritocratic, in that people are solely judged by their actions/contribution, in relation to ability. But I digress. As for the last part, I have nothing wrong with people promoting diversity, but am dubious of tokenism. --] ] 00:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC) ::I see people are twisting my words as usual. I did not deny off-wiki collaboration. I did not deny people on both sides have been harassed (from Zoe Quinn, to Milo Yianoupolis). I'm saying I find it hard to believe how Wikidiffs = doxxing other editors. Haven't i already proclaimed my disgust at the trolls and harassers? And furthermore, I'd like to stop being indirectly called a misogynist. I firmly believe society should be egalitarian and meritocratic, in that people are solely judged by their actions/contribution, in relation to ability. But I digress. As for the last part, I have nothing wrong with people promoting diversity, but am dubious of tokenism. --] ] 00:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Also, I'M NOT PRO-GAMERGATE. Can't one be a neutral observer these days? --] ] 00:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC) :::Also, I'M NOT PRO-GAMERGATE. Can't one be a neutral observer these days? --] ] 00:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

They're now sending meatpuppets to forum shop me. The little kangaroo court their cronies pulled seemed to work. Butbutbut muh not involvrd!!!!111!. Well, after interfering with quite a few AN discussions and that kangaroo court, are they really not involved anymore? --] ] 21:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


=== Statement by lurker Retartist === === Statement by lurker Retartist ===

Revision as of 21:25, 23 November 2014

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GamerGate

Initiated by --The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 00:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

This dispute has eluded resolution through other means ranging from raising concerns at conduct noticeboards and attempts at mediation regarding content. While editors with fewer contributions, as far as I know only those who are or are seen as favorable to the GamerGate side, have been routinely sanctioned or blocked, the established editors who are unfavorable to the GamerGate side and are the source of a lot of the conflict continue unimpeded. This is at least partly due to the fact that they have a sufficient number of sympathizers to prevent any consensus from being reached regarding their conduct. Another problem in this situation is that there are admins who are either WP:INVOLVED on the subject taking action against their opponents while giving them a pass or admins whose actions are otherwise dubious. Some of these admins have a history of questionable use of their admin tools on other topics. I can elaborate further on those details, though some of it is evidenced in the discussions linked above. Even though general sanctions have been imposed in the topic area and there are BLP discretionary sanctions covering some of these details, it has done nothing to stop this behavior from continuing and escalating as it has over the past week. A thorough review of all administrative conduct on this topic area, ranging from rev-deletions and suppressions to blocks and topic-bans, is requested in addition to reviewing the general conduct of editors.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 00:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Note: I have trimmed my statement and removed my replies to comply with the restrictions on statements. An abbreviated version of my listing of admin concerns:

Other admins are named more due to questions of judgment regarding specific actions, especially when citing BLP. ArmyLine's topic ban is one such case, as is PhilKnight's use of oversight tools regarding a link to Medium blog post. Not every admin action is being questioned, nor is every admin who has taken action on this topic named as a party. This is about certain admins or certain admin actions.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:20, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Red Pen's claim of improvement seems to be motivated purely by the fact that the enforcement page has to this point exclusively favored his side of the debate. It is no coincidence that the people creating it, using it, and promoting it, are all of the same mind on the subject matter itself. However, one request contains a comment that illustrates perfectly why certain "uninvolved" admins should not be acting as administrators in the topic area. Dealing with all the bad behavior on this topic would require a large number of enforcement requests, each being subject to review by admins who have made questionable decisions or are far too opinionated on the issue for their actions to be trusted.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:39, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

I'm not quite sure what this request is asking. It presents no diffs of identifiable issues, it does not present a case that any policies have been violated, nor does it meaningfully demonstrate that the community sanctions have been unsuccessful. A quick look at WP:BLPLOG finds no blocks and only a handful of topic bans implemented under the sanctions, and absolutely none have been imposed for the last two weeks. This suggests the sanctions have had the intended effect of directing the discussions in a constructive, if sometimes combative, direction. Rather, this request appears to be a statement that TDA isn't happy with the way discussions have gone on pages related to GamerGate and wishes ArbCom to enforce his preferred POV about the movement and people who have been targeted by it. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 00:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I can see why you don't want to spell out your arguments re: the above discussions — it's because you don't actually have any. You're just hoping that a big pile of ANI links will create the appearance that something's wrong with my behavior. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:17, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

From my perspective, here is the issue. There is no way to put this delicately, so I'll just say it. Gamergate is demonstrably a fringe POV. While their supporters are very vocal on a few Internet social media forums (most of them entirely anonymous) their actual numbers are small and their claims have garnered no mainstream credibility — to the contrary, in mainstream sources their claims have either been widely refuted or widely dismissed as nothingburgers. The weight of mainstream reliable sources is simply indisputable at this point, and so many Gamergate supporters have retreated into a conspiracy-theory realm where all sources are biased against them, except for those which agree with them. (A self-fulfilling prophecy.)

I am neither a "gamer" nor a "social justice warrior" — I first took interest in this issue when the community was made aware on a noticeboard that Misplaced Pages pages were being used to spread unfounded claims about living people and, as became obvious, further a campaign of vile harassment against them. Rather than acknowledge the movement's foundation in specious slut-shaming trolling, Gamergate is now attempting to whitewash the past and portray itself as a noble crusade for "journalism ethics," despite the fact that reliable sources all but universally view it as a purveyor of misogynistic harassment and retrograde culture warring. It is difficult to collaborate to build an article when there is insistence on portraying a group not as the overwhelming weight of reliable sources portray it, but as it wishes to be portrayed for public relations purposes. This we simply cannot do. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:15, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Ryulong

Sanctions are working as intended. There's no new big problems here other than a third attempt at bringing this to ArbCom in what appears to be a (vain) attempt to remove editors that TDA disagrees with. And this is still a content dispute masquerading as a user behavior inquest. Several threads closed that did not result in sanctions of any type against the people TDA has brought up (and his constant attempts to use diffs he's pulled from the article as an excuse to ban me at the present ANI thread , , , , ) should not mean anything in the long run other than a content dispute that will not end at any point in the future due to the nature of the real world dispute it concerns.

Several editors' statements in this request are also full of problems. Loganmac's statement contains polemic statements and comparisons that have been banned from the article's talk page. Titanium Dragon, who is still technically banned from Gamergate broadly construed, continues to accuse me of using a term in a derrogatory manner despite multiple attempts at informing him that it is just the term used (, , , ). Retartist suddenly thinks that because an extremely biased journalist writes something that mentions my screenname that I now possess a conflict of interest, and David Auerbach (Auerbachkeller) appearing on Misplaced Pages to put me to blame for something no one else had any issue with is suddenly leading to Jimbo asking I step away. And that IP address is making up conclusions that are not based on the article and making claims that someone is protected by BLP when every statement about that person used on the article and in talk spaces are either non-existant or supported by reliable sources.

The Arbitration Committee should reject this case, again. This is forum shopping, plain and simple. There was zero chance given to the community-created general sanctions. The Devil's Advocate could have reported myself, NorthBySouthBaranof, Tarc, etc. for arbitration enforcement or whatever proper venue to report people for this but he didn't. He came to ArbCom like ArmyLine did last month and Skrelk did two weeks ago, as well as Retartist's constant attempts to go to MedCom or DRN to split the difference. This have all been acts by people who favor the Gamergate movement browbeating people who don't. I shouldn't have made that list of users on WP:AN and I took it back before it turned into constant bickering that resulted in the general sanctions page. If ArbCom does feel the need to take the case, it should still make note of all of the throwaway accounts people are using rather than the established editors they're fighting.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:32, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I am now going to step away from the page as any further edits I make to the article or its talk page may be construed as a conflict of interest and I would rather that not cause problems any more.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 09:12, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Loganmac's accusation is ridiculous and pointed. I have opened up a crowd funding account for personal reasons and because of the current situation and as I can never tell who is and is not contributing to the fund I will not be editing the Gamergate page from this point forward. Or until some time after I've been able to get my stuff back from my friend overseas.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:44, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
@MarkBernstein: Two out of the three I make public already though.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

The previous request was dismissed as "too soon" to to see if the existing community processes could handle the situation. I am not aware that there has been any attempt to utilize the existing community processes since that time that have shown them to be ineffective. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:32, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that many of the statement appear to have the same issues as the gamergate talk page of rambling on and on and far exceeding the "Without exception, statements (including responses to other statements) must be shorter than 500 words" limit without actually being able to articulate or identify any specific issues. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:10, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Given the recent close of the ANI and the subsequent edit war over its implementation and the locking of the article , there may now be evidence that "existing processes" are not working. Or they may show that existing process do work as intended. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:38, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
With the re-opening of the closed ANI , it is probably evidence of "not working" right now, or not yet working. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:37, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: In between the closing of the last case and the opening of this, I am not aware of anything different happening. Since this case was filed, there was a discussion about whether to remove the NPOV tag and a request at ANI to review and close. This led to an edit war both at the article and at closing the ANI request which resulted in the article being locked (see some diffs in my statements above). A new page was opened to focus on the general sanctions for GG, which has had 2 events discussed Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Gamergate/Requests for enforcement. A working draft copy of the article was created Draft:Gamergate controversy, and there appears to be progress on at least two fronts. Talk:Gamergate_controversy#Intel_returns_to_Gamasutra.2C_now_with_a_source and Talk:Gamergate_controversy#Proposed_rewording . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:15, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Externally, Jimbo suggested that Gamergaters create what they thought would be an appropriate article, and GGers without a real strong grasp of Arb Com launched another "operation" -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:34, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Also externally, one of the big cheerleaders and figureheads Milo Yiannopoulos has come out full bore against net neutrality and the one major "success" in Intel has been reversed it seems that waiting a month or two more to see if it burns out of its own accord is a better proposition than spending a month or 6 here fanning the flames. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:40, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I think that the recent applications of the community sanctions are now starting to have an effect and , while messy, will be far less messy and probably at least as effective as anything that will come from this case. I urge those who noted their acceptance as "grudging " at best to reconsider if this matter is actually at the state of last resort. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 05:06, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Tutelary

I acknowledge that this is somewhat premature and probably will be rejected, but I'll post my statement in any case.

One of the main examples that I think should be looked into regarding conduct with administrators is the closing of Ryulong's edit warring report (that of 15RR) as stale simply 15 hours after the fact by administrator Dreadstar. It can be seen in this report; https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive261#User:Ryulong_reported_by_User:Tutelary_.28Result:_Stale.29

As evidenced by that report, it is plainly obvious that Ryulong was at 15 reverts particularly within that article, and had no qualifying 3RR exception. Within 24 hours (15 hours), it was rejected as 'stale'. I don't particularly know of Dreadstar's standard for qualifying a report as 'stale', but when I inquired to User_talk:Dreadstar/Archive_11#Closure_of_3RRN_noticeboard_report their talk page about this, they said verbatim basically '3RR or Edit Warring blocks are preventative, not punitive per Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#Purpose_and_goals. There were no reverts in over 12 hours, so it was stale. I was also assured in a discussion on the article talk page that there would be no continuation of the edit warring. If you wish to pursue the edit warring instance further, then I'd suggest and WP:RFC/U and not the AN3 noticeboard.'. This was plainly a case where Ryulong was 'backed' by administrator Dreadstar that he plainly got out of a block that probably would have indeffed another user because after 12 hours it was 'stale'. I doubt that entirely.

The next bit is the premature closing of both the sanction discussion regarding it which only achieved 23.5 hours of discussion (that which was still ongoing) before being closed and the sanctions being enacted. That's simply out of practice and needs to be looked into. Because there was definitely some opposing points which were not addressed before it was so soundly closed and enacted. 23.5 hours is NOT enough discussion which will ultimately give administrators even more power and discretion when already, there was enough since BLP discretionary sanctions applied. There was obviously something going on in the background because I have never, ever in my entire life on Misplaced Pages seen sanctions' discussions closed so rapidly and quickly and still be considered valid. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive265#Proposed_Gamergate_solution_by_Hasteur

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive265#Nip_Gamergate_in_the_bud In this discussion, Ryulong proposed that all of these 'SPAs' be topic banned, but 70% of them were not SPAs and he even implicated an admin as being one of them. There was a counterproposal to topic ban him, but it was closed by Future citing 'no possibility of consensus'--which is a !supervote, closing a discussion so no sanction or rejection of sanction will come out of it. That is unacceptable administrator conduct and I believe that a desysopping or serious sanction should occur for this happening.

This is just a glimpse of what has occurred in simply sketchy circumstances regarding administrators not fulfilling their role as an administrator, and as simply out of practice in terms of all decency of conduct or policy or guideline. Thanks. Tutelary (talk) 02:22, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Loganmac

The problems with the article is the extreme uncivility, problems with WP:OWN (25% of edits are made by the same two people). There's constant reverts of good faith edits, before these editors even read them as has happened to me. There's been witch hunts accusing people of being SPAs, this witch hunt included admins and people that have been here for years in a clear attempt to white wash the article. The article right now seems like a parody to outsiders, not supoporters of the movement, I've asked two people that said the neutrality dispute is well placed. Controversial movements should, even if they're supposed to be the most evil movement in history, supposed to be given a historical and uninvolved tone. Articles on Hitler, Scientology, ISIS, the KKK, Al Qaeda show this, and of course we shouldn't give examples to other articles, but when the article on a racist genocidal dictator has a more neutral tone than an Internet controversy you got a problem. All movements no matter how they've been criticized by media, should first state what RS consider this movement advocates for, and then give all the criticism, with due weight, and taking into account that this movement is targeting media, so it's imperative to take every source with a grein of salt. There's been ethical code changes on several sites including Kotaku, Polygon, The Escapist, etc. So it's illogical to say it's a front for harassment when these very same sites have changed their policy and have been disclosing their conflicts of interest, and retroactively correcting other articles in admissions of problems to correct. Aside from this, there's been outside wiki behaviour like people contacting me on my personal twitter and reddit accounts, this very same people show an EXTREME bias to the subject. And their edits show it. The article as well is currently filled with extensive quotes, sources from involved parties (Zoe Quinn currently has quotes on almost every section). People have been in contact with Zoe Quinn to change her picture in the article, because she was drinking and this supposedly was bad even if she's an adult, disregarding that she was at a game event, the picture is of a really high definition and showed her naturally smiling, instead was replaced by a self-taken picture of her making faces (making it hard to really identify her) is of extreme low quality (probably taken by a cellphone) and doesn't show her at a gaming event like the previous one used, the industry by which she's known for. This is just a small example of an attempt to control the narrative that's been going for months. There's been involved admins like Dreadstar who seem to be protecting editors like Ryulong for even a hint of "commenting about them", when this very same editor has been doing the same, on the sight of admins on ANI, on their personal talk pages and the article talk page, and nothing has happened.

Update Beware that, although editor Ryulong has announced quitting the article, if he (I'm pretty sure he will) comes back, he seems to be involved in paid editing now http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2mra6i/after_a_discussion_with_ryulong_weve_both_decided/ https://archive.today/PEKH2 Loganmac (talk) 15:19, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Masem

(Trimmed versiom, original content here User:Masem/GGArbCom Statement 2). Per a comment I asked on the ArbCom talk page, this request might be too soon, however, I agree in principle that while there are sanctions in place, they are not able to address the fact that there is experienced editors that have, even unintentionally, working in a manner that creates ownership of the article, dismissing any SPA attempts to contribute (and in fact, claims that they have to work actively against them), and refused to participate in any attempt to reach consensus - specifically but not limited to Ryulong, NorthBySouthBaranof, TheRedPenOfDoom, and TaraInDC.

Part of this is the story - it is one that is extremely decisive, and the mainstream press has clearly picked a side, voicing an extremely strong negative opinion that the Gamergate movement is misogynistic. This is unavoidable and necessary to include per NPOV/WEIGHT. However, I believe that the above editors are editing partially blinded by strong feelings they share with the press, wanting to treat the proGG without the necessary fairness/impartial nature that NPOV also demands. Efforts to include impartialness are reverted by those in this group and then they swamp the discussion, going on clearly showing which side of the debate they want pushed hard. I also believe that the focus this group has on "SPAs are the problem" is misguided. Per edits like this and Ryulong's infamous "list of people I want banned" from ANI, the people above as well as others are trying to effectively engage in censorship of the article or more importantly in the talk page. The suggestion of outright removing SPAs from the picture - while sometimes necessary to minimize disruption - is not acceptable behavior for anyone on WP.

There is a content issue here (in how WP should cover topics that are near-universially treated with negative opinions by mainstream reliable sources), but it is tied in closely with behavior that refuse to want to work on consensus in that manner. I'll also defer to comments I left in the previous case . --MASEM (t) 01:14, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

@DungeonSiegeAddict510 : Apology accepted. --MASEM (t) 05:40, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
@DD2K: Diffs please for how I "aide and abet" SPAs. --MASEM (t) 03:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

@DD2K: I strongly contest to that claim.--MASEM (t) 19:55, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: (trimming) The offsite push has been documented, but there still remains issues with ownership by a small # of editors (per above) since the last case. --MASEM (t) 16:14, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Tarc

Hmm, I'm really not seeing why this filing is being, er, filed. Discussion at Talk:Gamergate controversy is always going to be slightly sharp, as discussions tend to be in hot-button topic areas, but there has really been nothing untoward of late and the filer has provided no diffs of what he believes has changed since the last time. If one looks through the list of ANI links, one will see several WP:BOOMERANG whacks of SPAs, e.g. the one filed against yours truly that resulted in ArmyLine's removal from the topic area. Also, with WP:GS/GG is in place, admins have done a good job of late in steering editors away from commenting on each other and towards commenting on the subject matter.

I will put forth the notion that why we're really here is not that The Devil's Advocate sees an intractable dispute that must be Arbitrated, but rather that he refuses to accept that the tide is turning against him, that the "pro-Gamergate" point-of-view is slipping into a minority/fringe position akin to Obama's birth certificate birthers. Please take note of this post to admin Dreadstar's talk page, which contains the line "Clearly, you do not even understand the fucking policies you cite. You seriously need to be desysopped. Obviously, all that power has gone to your head.", along with "You probably know this on some level, but simply do not give a shit because my comments go against your own opinion on the issue of GamerGate." from here. What TDA is doing here is casting aspersions against one of the admins who has attempted to keep the peace in the GG article, but is getting increasingly shrill because action is (rightly, IMO) taken primarily against the disruptive single-purpose accounts. This reminds me of the Stevertigo 2 case, where an editor was so aggressive and so believing in his own rightness...or righteousness...that any failure to achieve consensus for his preferred edits must mean either collusion or malfeasance on the part of admins and other editors.

The edit-warring of the past month has largely subsided in the wake of reliable sources cementing the foundation of GG being primarily about the misogynist harassment of women in the gaming industry. This is like a football (real football, not that footy stuff) being tied up at halftime, but by the end of the 3rd quarter, one team has pulled far ahead due to a strong foundation. All in all, what this is is a case of TDA not accepting the way GG is trending. Tarc (talk) 01:42, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

  1. Everyone else here; STOP sniping back and forth on the article talk page. If you have a problem with someone, then go file a complaint at the above page and let others handle it. Go ahead, file something on me, or Ryulong, or Tuletary, or Masem...rather than everyone endlessly saying why they think other editors are problematic or obstructionist. This is "put up or shut up" time, because, trust me; most people that get dragged to an Arbcom case do not emerge unscathed, no matter how confident you are going in that you're in the right and the other guy's a rube. Give what we have a try before this goes to the Court of Last Resort. Tarc (talk) 00:20, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Bilby

I'm a bit confused about what has changed to warrant revisiting this issue so soon. The last ArbCom request closed less than a week ago, and all of the discussions linked to above are from September and October, before the request closed. As far as I am aware there have been no significant events on the GamerGate article - the only protection was by me to return semi after it was removed when the previous full protection expired. The talk page remains open, and there has been no revdel since the last request closed. There has been some minor edit warring and heated discussion continues unabated, but mostly we're looking at content issues. I wouldn't be surprised to see this end up here eventually, but I am surprised to see it here now. - Bilby (talk) 01:15, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Given that The Devil's Advocate has included me in the list of admins above, even if mostly in passing, I should make a statement. As The Devil's Advocate points out, I am involved in the GamerGate article, although I am aware of this and believe that I'm acting accordingly. Originally I chose to try and remain uninvolved, but during the process I realised that I would be more useful as an editor rather than as an admin. Since then I have chosen to make no input into potentially contentious admin decision, including blocks and topic bans. I have only made a very small number of admin actions, and per WP:Involved, they were extremely straightforward, or both straightforward and urgent (BLP violations). Until now, as far as I am aware the only concerns raised were about a revdel which contained libel, , and now the diff raised by TDA which I stand by. I am not aware of any other action which has been previously raised as a concern, but then due to the decision to act as an editor I have had to leave all heavy lifting to others. - Bilby (talk) 08:40, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Cla68

I've wanted to participate with editing this article, but have mostly held back because of the vitriol and condescending attitudes presented by some of the established editors who are heavily involved in that article. There are some indications, namely when Future Perfect of Sunrise prematurely shut down that AN discussion and other examples, of improper admin conduct related to this dispute. These examples include some particularly egrious examples of WP:BITE. Judging by the discussion on the article talk page, I think we have some of the most clear examples of non-NPOV editing I've ever seen in WP. If the Committee accepts this case, I will help present evidence, because it appears to be extremely voluminous. Cla68 (talk) 01:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by marginally involved EvergreenFir

Just commenting to urge arbcom to take this case now. On the previous request a couple weeks ago I urged the committee to wait. And wait they did. Not much has come of the WP:GS/GG. I think it's time for arbcom to step in. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 02:05, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I'll echo a comment above:

  • Google "Ryulong" and you will see the extent of the problem here. Edit for clarity: I'm trying to point out the vast off wiki activity going on in gg groups and that users like Ryulong are being targeted. If you Google as I suggested you can quickly see the numerous posts on reddit and the off wiki orchestration occurring. It demonstrates the extent of the problem. To be clear, I am not suggesting users try to dig up info on another user. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 06:20, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by still uninvolved Hasteur

Please see User:Hasteur/GG 3 Statement since the "committee" is harassing me about being at 861 words of germane to the case request and not the wide sweeping screeds. I challenge that the committee's "rule" about 500 words (especially in light of the SPA nature of this case request) puts those editors who are trying to respond to the committee (and other statements) as something that IAR should have been applied to. Hasteur (talk) 23:45, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Gamaliel

The Devil's Advocate has a long history of bringing frivolous or outright fabricated charges to noticeboards, of fomenting drama on and off Misplaced Pages, and of excusing, downplaying, or ignoring noxious, disruptive, and policy-violating behavior of those he perceives to be on his side. The Committee should ban this user from all noticeboards for at least one year. In relation to GamerGate, his charges have been rejected on the noticeboards and he was so disruptive there that he was blocked. This is simply forum shopping. My comments he cites fallen under this policy: "Warnings, calm and reasonable discussion and explanation of those warnings, advice about community norms, and suggestions on possible wordings and approaches do not make an administrator 'involved'." I am stunningly indifferent to GamerGate and gaming culture, so I'm really curious what TDA thinks my stake is.

TDA's complaint misrepresents or ignores serious wrongdoing by those he defends. He claims I was "feuding with" Tabascoman77, a serious misrepresentation. Tabascoman77, in what was my only interaction with him, posted an unsolicited attack on myself and others at ANI and threatened to write an "expose", something that could be considered blackmail. He posted serious allegations against Zoe Quinn, I warned him, he did it again, and I blocked him. Even if Tabascoman's threats made it inappropriate for me to take actions against him, WP:GRAPEVINE still applies. TDA also has no interest in BLP enforcement, complaining that it is "absurd" for me to redact the usage of a slur against Quinn and that TD's topic ban is "tyrannical behavior" despite TD's behavior outlined below. TDA's viewpoint appears to be editors should be able to do whatever they want, regardless of the consequences, while administrators should be restricted from acting in almost every case, and any check on editorial behavior by administrators is a "tyrannical" abuse of power.

As for Titanium Dragon, I topic banned him after the second time he used Misplaced Pages to air unsubstantiated allegations of serious wrongdoing against Quinn. (The ban was overturned only because of my procedural error; efforts to overturn the ban on the merits were dismissed at ANI.) Titanium Dragon was quickly banned again by a different administrator. An ArbCom case is about conduct, policy, and procedure, but Titanium Dragon devotes the bulk of his comments (prior to condensing to 500 words) to his views of the facts of GamerGate, including his claim that Quinn's harassment was a fabrication, as well as comments that darkly hint at her involvement in something, a matter that when he explicitly leveled those charges against Quinn got him banned. Since he cannot sufficiently restrain himself after being banned twice, Titanium Dragon is unable to edit Misplaced Pages with the sensitivity and thoughtfulness required for dealing with BLPs. The Committee should indefinitely ban him from all BLPs.

@TDA, I have no idea how this comment of mine "illustrates perfectly" my supposed involvement, or is any indication of involvement at all.

Statement by Titanium Dragon

I became involved in this because I was worried that the article was going to be defaced by angry gamers; instead, it was being defaced by angry culture warriors. I sought to make the article more neutral, and include sourced information. Subsequently, I was doxxed by Wikipediocracy in September, along with another user, Tutelary, in an obvious intimidation attempt. user:Tarc, a former associate of Wikipediocracy, made approving noises, while user:Gamaliel noted that he wanted to ban users such as ourselves. He subsequently did so at the request of user:NorthBySouthBaranof shortly after North found out that I was working on an ANI against him and other disruptive users, and immediately after I removed a section of material from the Zoe Quinn article he had added from Cracked magazine, a parody website. He had previously been warned by other users it was inappropriate to include in the article.

The ban was later reversed. Some time later, while I was helping a new editor properly file a 3RR dispute against user:NorthBySouthBaranof and user:Ryulong, who had been reverting his comments on the talk page (and trying to shut down discussion), user:NorthBySouthBaranof sought bans against both myself and the other user involved in the dispute, which user:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise granted within a half hour.

Why?

Numerous claims of criminal activity have been made by both sides, and while some (Sarkeesian’s death threats, various website hacks) are well attested, others lack independent verification and appear not to have been reported to law enforcement. One individual making these claims has had reliability issues in the past about similar events, resulting in The Escapist apologizing for repeating their unverified claims, and another works for Breitbart, a right-wing publication. In the past, unverified claims of harassment have lead to harassment of others. Per WP:CRIME, claims of criminal activity need to be well-verified. I advocated for caution. North both lied about what I said (claiming I only advocated for scrutiny of the claims of one side, when I specifically noted both) and claimed that he knew what I meant.

North previously had been warned in an ANI about precisely this behavior, falsely claiming that other people have said things that they had not said and casting aspersions on others. user:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise was uninterested in reviewing this fact.

Ryulong and North have been seeking bans on people who disagree with them and who pursue action against them. Ryulong has a history of seeking blocks against users who disagree with him, something which was noted when he was de-sysopped many years ago; his behavior does not appear to have changed.

Tarc, Ryulong, and North have falsely claimed consensus and improperly excluded material while shutting down discussion and insulting other users, referring to them as misogynists, /v/irgins, and otherwise casting aspersions reminiscent of that used in off-Wiki harassment. They have rejected and insulted mediation. GamerGate is a massive fight with both the “GamerGaters” and the so-called “SJWs” attacking each other and third parties who simply report on the events in a way they don’t like, including Misplaced Pages editors. Titanium Dragon (talk) 06:46, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

(Trimmed to 500 words; original statement here)

Statement by (uninvolved) Desine

Hi guys! You might want a heads-up that someone's trying to kick up a mob on 8chan to smear anyone and everyone involved in this Arbcom. They're actively trying to doxx people, so I'm not going to link it, but I'd be happy to offer links/archives to trusted parties if necessary. - Desine (talk) 04:43, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Or, you know, people could just openly link it on my talk page. - Desine (talk) 05:38, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Mr. Random

Regarding the 8chan mob: the only doxxing I see in the thread is the mentioning of one editor's name (it's unclear to me whose) in the context of evidence of an editing COI. Their primary objectives seem to be to collect evidence of editor misconduct related to the article (which quickly devolved into general smearing among some of them), and to find pro-GG sources for the article itself. Still, given the mob's instability, we should be ready for anything they might do, so to speak.

There seems to be an edit war here over whether Jimbo Wales is involved. He has commented on Twitter about this issue, but he has not directly participated (or even taken action that could be construed as such in any way), and is thus uninvolved. Please stop trying to list him as an involved party. I stand corrected.

Finally, regarding the case itself: in light of what A Quest For Knowledge just brought up (i.e., an uncalled-for and unusually well-coordinated discussion shutdown, tag removal, and page locking), I must strongly encourage ArbCom to take this case. Random the Scrambled 15:38, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by DungeonSiegeAddict510

Archived statements at User:DungeonSiegeAddict510/ArbCom Temp

Clerks of the Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee, I urge you to take this case and heavily review ALL logs of the pages related to Gamergate, and others, such as Adland. 5 editors, Ryulong, TheRedPenOfDoom, Tarc, TaraInDC, and NorthBySouthBaranof have WP:TAGTEAM'd the article for until it was locked, after removal of the NPOV tag by TheRedPenofDoom. It is not just these 5 editors in on this, a few notable admins have been defending these 5. Dreadstar, Future Perfect by Sunrise, and Gamaliel. First the 5, they have not only WP:TAGTEAM'd multiple times, but, also violate WP:BLP on articles and talkpages. For example, they have slandered Christina Hoff Sommers, a feminist, and a REGISTERED democrat, as a right wing antifeminist. They also labeled Milo Yiannopoulos, as a "fickle opportunist". They are clearly pushing a POV, for a topic which has very few actual sources. To further this, they've also subtly, or sometimes not (with the case of Adland) changed other articles to make their POV sound better. Many sources are subpar, and have done little to no research on the matter. Whatever sources included, had obvious bias. Gawker Media is a target, Vox Media is a target, Gamasutra is a target, etc. MANY neutral sources have been proposed, many neutral revisions proposed. But in the name of WP:RS, BLOGS AND TABLOIDS, have been given preference over publications like Forbes, or nationally syndicated shows like The David Pakman Show. WP:FRINGE violation: Vivian. Baseless claims say, Vivian's hoodie alludes to dead meme about supposed rape. Not only is the aforementioned highly illogical, and non-notable, it is barely masked POV pushing. Many times, both sides, BOTH sides, have condemmed the harassment. Yet, only the anti-gamergate side is mentioned for this in length. POV pushing is rampant in this article, and many others related to it. How have publications such as The Verge, now known for inciting harassment of a scientist, given the server space or clicks on Misplaced Pages? This is disgusting on many levels, and will leave a black streak on Misplaced Pages's reputation if this blatant POV pushing continues. I am not done yet. These 5 have successfully pushed the POV for over a few months now, hounding the article and providing for a majority of edits, yet labeling other editors as SPAs, including an admin. But I digress; these editors have been given free reign, and admin powers via proxy. The editors pushing for a neutral article are policed by Dreadstar, Future Perfect, and some others, but when NorthBySouthBarnof, for example, went over the 3RR rule by, oh, 9, it was swept under the rug by Dreadstar, who hid the diffs. Titanium Dragon, a non SPA, who has been doxxed, no less, got topic banned by Gamaliel (Who insists that it isn't them, since someone else put it back on). I should note, Ryulong has been known in the past to collude with admins off the wiki. Now, the recent discovery of an operation by GamerGate about Misplaced Pages I found this. . In essence, it asks GamerGate supporters to find diffs and logs that seem suspicious. To make it a secret to everyone, yes, I did register an account there, but have decided to not use it. I implore the ArbCom clerks to take this case, and look through histories thoroughly. It saddens me people defend Gawker and co as RS. --DSA510 Pls No H8 01:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I recently have been doxxed on IRC, which is the real reason for my temporary absence. I sincerely hope I don't have to look into this further. --DSA510 Pls No H8 05:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

@MarkBernstein: @Hustlecat: Excuse me? I know you'll probably use the following to paint me as something I'm not (pro-gg), but WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Read the wiki link in my statement. Collecting wikidiffs. A proposal was made, to, in essence, collect wikidiffs. Now I'm sure you're all glossing over/happy that I've gotten doxxed for minimal involvement, and now have some IP trying to get me banned, but i fail to see how, COLLECTING PUBLIC WIKIDIFFS = DOXXING. I COULD POTENTIALLY DIE IF I GET SWATTED, AND YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT WIKIDIFFS? There are serious double standards here, clerks of ArbCom, and this should not be allowed to stand. --DSA510 Pls No H8 22:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

@MarkBernstein: I am expressing my increasing exasperation with how "doxxing" is being thrown around so easily. Especially since EVERYTHING I SAW ONLY CALLED FOR WIKIDIFF COLLECTION. --DSA510 Pls No H8 23:45, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I see people are twisting my words as usual. I did not deny off-wiki collaboration. I did not deny people on both sides have been harassed (from Zoe Quinn, to Milo Yianoupolis). I'm saying I find it hard to believe how Wikidiffs = doxxing other editors. Haven't i already proclaimed my disgust at the trolls and harassers? And furthermore, I'd like to stop being indirectly called a misogynist. I firmly believe society should be egalitarian and meritocratic, in that people are solely judged by their actions/contribution, in relation to ability. But I digress. As for the last part, I have nothing wrong with people promoting diversity, but am dubious of tokenism. --DSA510 Pls No H8 00:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Also, I'M NOT PRO-GAMERGATE. Can't one be a neutral observer these days? --DSA510 Pls No H8 00:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

They're now sending meatpuppets to forum shop me. The little kangaroo court their cronies pulled seemed to work. Butbutbut muh not involvrd!!!!111!. Well, after interfering with quite a few AN discussions and that kangaroo court, are they really not involved anymore? --DSA510 Pls No H8 21:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by lurker Retartist

I haven't been heavily involved in this but i have been watching all the time. I dont post much because mostly I don't have much time and i don't like to write long posts. I started the failed dispute resolution and mediation requests. I think several users have been VERY uncivil and have gotten away with it per other users comments. I think it is 100% wrong that people are labelling this movement as Factually misogynistic and that popular opinion constitutes fact. Personally i used to be 100% pro-gg but recently have become more cynical as some people in the movement have shut their minds 100% or can't decide whether to be angels or just wreck shit (hi 8 chan). I know that the page can't paint GG as saints but what the page at this time is a smear campaign that assumes the press is 100% right. Also by request Here is the 8chan thread Retartist (talk) 07:01, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to act as a proxy for 8chan, Here is a page where I/they will copy notable posts that summarizes their arguments: User:Retartist/8chanstuff and they want us to look at this page re: claims of doxing from them Fallacy of quoting out of context Retartist (talk) 10:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Blanked page and redirecting users to collect evidence off wikiRetartist (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I want to make it clear that the actions of myself in relation to the 8chan users is purely for the purpose of collecting diffs that they have that relate to the behaviour of editors for the purpose of this arb-com case. Retartist (talk) 23:06, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

A quick question, since news sites have mentioned several wikipedians in relation to the controversy, does that make them too involved in the page and therefore have a WP:COI? Retartist (talk) 04:46, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I must note that I have attempted in the past to start mediation and Dispute resolution. Other editors have called it forum shopping but those threads were started after each other due to editors declining to participate, i only started new ones as was recommended to me. Retartist (talk) 01:46, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Willhesucceed

This topic has entirely exhausted me. TRPoD, Ryulong, Tarc, and to a lesser extent Tara and Baranof's harassment, belligerence, and unwillingness to cooperate with others on the Gamergate topic make the possibility of a good article materialising exceedingly small. I'm not going to bother tracking down all the swearing, arbitrary shutting down of discussions, mocking, double standards with regards to sources, edit warring, and other such behaviour that's marred the editing there, because the last time I did it didn't make any difference, even after Ryulong went on a witch hunt.

When I was still new here, multiple persons engaged in an edit war with me, and nobody did anything about it. As soon as people with whom The Five (above) disagreed did it, they submitted them for admin action. There are plenty of other such incidences evident to anyone who's been following the topic. Again, I have no faith that the admins are interested in executing their duties here, so I'm not going to bother tracking it all down. If the admins are actually finally interested in performing their responsibilities, they can be the ones to waste their own time.

While The Five, or at least TRPoD, Ryulong, and Tarc are still allowed anywhere near the topic, leave me out of this. I want as little as possible to do with them or with wilfully blind and biased administrators. Misplaced Pages has turned into a joke. Willhesucceed (talk) 08:10, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I will add that there seems to be over-reliance on "strong" but biased/political sources over more neutral/factual but "middling" or "weak" sources, which reliance is leading to an article that is prima facie objective but that is actually inaccurate, in that information is being excluded simply because it doesn't serve The Five's agenda. Digitimes, for example, is a respectable tech news outlet in Taiwan (you know, one of the places that make products for the video games industry), and yet it's not included anywhere on the page. Why? Because people are pushing political agendas instead of working together to create a proper, factual article on the topic. Here, have a look at them: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20141027VL200.html and http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140906VL200.html?chid=8 Perfectly reasonable perspective removed from the politics of the issues (unlike NYT, etc.), and yet they're being ignored. BBC Business Matters also covered the topic more neutrally, as have a few other sources. They're not included, either. More neutral and factual articles are being passed over for human interest pieces and politics. Welcome to the New Misplaced Pages. Willhesucceed (talk) 12:32, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Halfhat

The problemss with this article are complex and numerous, there are NPOV issues that need worked on (particularly on the intro), however they seem to be argued over almost exclusively making up the bulk of the talk page. There is a serious lack of attention to the over major issues with the page. These include the unjustifiable volume of opinion which has left the article at around 120kB which finally seems to be going down. Part of the problems I think also come from the highly polarizing nature of the topic, just about everyone here has some strong views, though I'm sure many will deny this, however there is clearly more going on. There's a bad habit of adding from every RS and a serious unwillingness to remove. HalfHat 09:01, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Another issue is the large volume of users attacking each other, this plagues both of the "sides" that have loosely formed, they usually go along the lines of agenda pushing and seldom have anything backing them beyond having opinions, the nature of the topic is highly polarizing, and so we all have our own biases, I think we need to accept this and move on instead of being so quick to accuse. HalfHat 09:21, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

@SirFozzie What evidence do you have to back up your conspiracy theory? HalfHat 09:49, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

For the record I'm not sure what should be done, I'm just trying to share my understanding of the situation since I've been pretty involved. HalfHat 09:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

@Fut.Perf. What are you suggesting, guilty until proven innocent for new users? Totally against assume good faith and don't bite the n00bs, which is part of one of the five pillars. Mass bans without researching goes directly against what Misplaced Pages stands for.

I'm still not sure what is the best idea, but I can't help find how strongly certain users are against this a bit odd. HalfHat 09:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

On the talk page everyone seems to be more at each other's throats than usual, I really don't know why. HalfHat 22:19, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Silver seren

In the interest of keeping the reading of this short, i'll just upfront state my opinion, since it's quite possible the rest of my comment will be long. Thus, in short, Arbcom should NOT accept this case.

This article topic is basically an issue involving a dedicated group of Fringe people (the supporters that make up the Gamergate group) pushing for an article that reflects their POV, rather than neutrality or reliable sources. Considering the ongoing harassment campaign against dozens of people by this group, it is unsurprising that they are also wishing to control the narrative of the Misplaced Pages article on the topic of their group. They are similar to any other fringe group, whether speaking of pseudoscience or subjects related to sects of things in religion or political ideology. Several of the individuals that have made statements above are clear and known supporters of this Gamergate subject group. As you'd expect, there are a lot of SPAs involved. And then there are several others, which I will name Masem as one, that are trying to be good Wikipedians, but are pushing the point of neutrality to a fault. In a manner like what a lot of news media does, they are assuming that since there is more than one side involved, that the sides are equal and should be given equal weight. In this vociferous attempt to be neutral, they are essentially advocating for a violation of WP:DUE WEIGHT and against the very point of FRINGE existing.

Also, a side note of what exactly Misplaced Pages as a whole is dealing with in regards to this group and which several others have noted above, there are a number of threads within the Gamergate areas that currently are watching this very Arbcom request and say things such as, and I quote,

"DIG UP ALL INFO POSSIBLE ON Ryulong, NorthBySouthBarnoff, TarainDC, and TheRedPenofDoom."

So, in addition to dealing with rampant meatpuppetry, there are also concerns regarding harassment and WP:GAMING. Please take all of this into account.

It is for all the above reasons that I suggest that Arbcom does not take this case. The article is already being administered properly, following the policy and guideline rules of reliable sources, neutrality, due weight, and consensus among editors. The involvement of Arbcom at this junction would only serve to make the overall situation more chaotic and would only produce heat and no light at all. Thank you for your time. Silverseren 09:03, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by SirFozzie

Here we go again. My statement last time (that people outside Misplaced Pages are attempting to use the "Death by a Thousand Cuts" technique to force editors out of the area, to give their SPA/POV warriors a chance to slant the article to their preferred version... think that's pretty much came true, huh? Dunno how it's solveable, it's against "Misplaced Pages's code" to restrict SPA's based on what they MIGHT do, but it's just a wave upon wave of attacks, hoping to "break the dam" through erosion. SirFozzie (talk) 09:39, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

HalfHat: Would the threads on 8Chan and KiA where they discuss how to break users in this thread help? SirFozzie (talk) 10:00, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I see what got you worried. I mentioned Restricting SPA's, which would possibly affect you, correct? SirFozzie (talk) 10:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Cs_california

I have been on Misplaced Pages for a while and made one to two NPOV edits on this page. On 28 September 2014 I added a sentence with reference on one of issues regarding corruption involving EA games. On October 22, 2014 a message was sent to me about an administrator board message from User:Ryulong. I, along with some fifteen users were wrongfully accused of being "Pro-gamergate" per Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive265#Nip Gamergate in the bud and was requested to be banned from the page for POV pushing and editing pages such as " (Anita Sarkeesian, Video game journalism, Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, etc.) ", which I have never edited. I only added 2 sentences and was automatically assigned an alignment to a certain side.

After reviewing some talk pages it seems like User:Ryulong is pushing a POV agenda including:

  • Witch hunting of users per request Nip Gamergate in the bud with NO research (ie "zero edits outside of this topic area in the past 2 months")
  • Incorrectly removing POV tags Talk:Gamergate controversy/Archive 8#POV tag
  • Bullying and acting in an Uncivil manner
    • including reverting users talk pages for no reason
    • Using pejorative terms to refer to anyone presenting counter evidence
    • Incivility

Per comments about 8chan: I do not know what that website is nor do I use it. As for the dig up everything comment. If there was no proof of anything negative there would be nothing for them to find. Only administrative bureaucrats can delete personal information or items from history.

-Cs california (talk) 10:36, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Avono

I will be agreeing with Cla68 and Masem, imho the biggest problem with the gamergate talkpage is that is it overly hostile for uninvolved /new users to get involved in by a set of problematic users who have clearly shown that there are not impartial (Wales telling both Tarc & Ryulong to stop editing the page (,) . At the current time it is not worth the effort to solve the article’s npov issues because of that group of people who seem to think that they “own” ("35,5 % of all edits are done by Ryulong & NorthBySouthBarnof") the article.

@Silver seren:: the exact quote is "ITS IN ARBCOM GUYS. ARB. FUCKING. COM. (or at least a request). DIG UP ALL INFO POSSIBLE ON Ryulong, NorthBySouthBarnoff, TarainDC, and TheRedPenofDoom. Wiki related, we don't need twitter/tumblr/etc shit unless its related.",so please don't take quotes out of context. Users are accountable for their own actions therefore your second last argument about possible harassment is invalid. Avono (talk) 11:31 am, Today (UTC+1)

updated at Avono (talk) 14:25, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Ramba Ral

May I state, first off, that ArbCom should absolutely take this case.

I am not an active contributor to this article for obvious reasons, but I have been involved in this article from the beginning.

This article is subject to numerous problems, many of which have already been listed in statements by previous contributors to which I will add the following:

Firstly, there are next to no reliable NPOV secondary sources with which to support this article. The article concerns corruption in the media. Anyone with a modicum of common sense or ability to think critically will come to the realisation that the media is therefore not a reliable source on its own corruption. Nevertheless the article cites blogs and websites such as Cracked, Buzzfeed and indeed, Kotaku as reliable sources. In the case of Kotaku, user Ryulong said, in this talk page that it is not a reliable source. Kotaku is listed as a source for this article at least five times. What makes Kotaku an unreliable source for a tribute game and reliable on its own corruption?

Secondly, the article has been described by Misplaced Pages founder Jimmy Wales as a 'badly written battleground'. As Loganmac mentioned more contentious topics such as Adolf Hitler have received far more neutral articles. Why should a controversy over reporting in Games' media be treated any differently? The article has a problem with neutral language and perspective. I edited the article exactly once, to make the language more neutral. My edit was immediately reverted by an editor who claimed my edit was a WP:BLP transgression. This is WP:GAME and there are many instances of this happening. The article which is mainly being edited by the same four editors, user Ryulong in particular, in what is a textbook case of WP:OWN.

This brings me to my third and final point.

I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviour of Ryulong in particular. Ryulong has often proven himself to be uncivil, uninterested in civil discussion and solely concerned with narrative pushing in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. Keep in mind that this editor was de-sysopped for narrative pushing, harassment and ‘doxxing’ people who disagreed with him.

Numerous evidence exists of Ryulong engaging in WP: TAGTEAM (), WP:DE and violation of WP:NPOV (admitted to bias and as well as a violation of WP:CIVIL). In addition he tried to lead a witch-hunt against editors who do not share his views , some of which were prominent administrators.

This is not the first time that Ryulong has engaged in such behaviour. Nor will it be the last, unless Arbitrators do something about him. Ryulong has already been de-sysopped for similar behaviour and is frequently the target of requests for arbitration and other such requests. I believe that he represents the worst that Misplaced Pages has to offer, a text book case of WP:BITE amongst other things, and letting him go on unpunished would be an affront to the integrity of Misplaced Pages as a whole.

Thank you for reading. Ramba Ral (talk) 11:53, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by User:Thargor Orlando

Please refer to my original comment, not much has changed. I'm completely in Cla68's boat in which the behavior of what, for the purposes of this filing, would be called "anti-GG" editors have fostered a climate where editing in the area for uninvolved editors is not worth the energy or fear of being blocked.

@Hasteur:'s point about the new enforcement page (which replaces/duplicates the existing page) just further highlights the problem. We're expecting the same community and administrators that appear to be unable to take a neutral look at this situation (as demonstrated with the NPOV tag issue) to then somehow be responsible enough to handle sanctions that do not appear to have wide approval, having been instituted after less than a day of discussion and without addressing significant problems. Also, Hasteur isn't uninvolved at all, as you're the one who sought community sanctions on this issue as the one who proposed the sanctions under "Proposed Gamergate solution by Hasteur." The accusations levied on me for wanting accountability and the bad faith demonstrated by Hasteur in his response are just some of many examples of how poisonous this has become and why a neutral party needs to be involved. Thargor Orlando (talk) 00:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
In summary, I don't see how this can be resolved without ArbCom intervention anymore. The community trust on this issue is basically ruined on both sides, and neutral parties willing to look at all angles of this are desperately needed. Hopefully ArbCom can be that group. Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: User:Gamaliel's latest update about "forum shopping" is, ironically, what I think of when I think of what happened the last few days with the NPOV tag. Clearly anti-GG editors couldn't get consensus at the article page to remove the necessary NPOV tag, so they forum shopped it to AN/I, allegedly got consensus there and then got the tag removed. The constant steamrolling of one side of the discussion in favor of the other is the problem here. I have no dog in this fight, I don't care enough about this issue to have a side, but I do have a vested interest in an encyclopedia that isn't having articles handled the way this one is by small pools of editors with various points of views and vendettas due to understandable anger at off-wiki activities. As someone who has been attacked off-site for alleged points of view and advocacy, I can sympathize, but that's simply not an excuse and the discretionary sanctions do not appear to be able to handle those editors because of the emotions and controversy surrounding this. Please take this case, it's really the only way we can get this sorted. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:55, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Liz

I'm glad to see that this page is semi-protected. It's alarming to see threads like this (https://8chan.co/gg/res/471658.html and http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2ltg1a/this_is_really_important_top_wikipedia_admins_are/) on 8chan and reddit basically trying to rally the troops to influence these proceedings and "dig up information" on some of the participants (specifically Ryulong, NorthBySouthBarnoff, TarainDC and TheRedPenofDoom) . I know off-wiki activity is generally not considered but this seems especially targeted to influence any decision-making.

I hope that ARBCOM considers the arguments of people actually involved with editing articles concerning this subject and not uninvolved editors (myself included). Liz 13:12, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I just came across Operation 5 Horseman (GamerGate is fond of military language) on pastebin, , focused on combing through contributions of a variety of editors and admins involved in this process to dig up dirt. Regardless of the specific content disputes, I fear that the evidence phase of a proceeding of an ArbCom case will spiral out-of-control and get overly personal on the real, personal failings of all-to-human editors. Given the off-Misplaced Pages conversations I've read, I wouldn't be surprised to see arbitrators next being subject to this same level of scrutiny if their opinions don't please this group of readers.
I realize that the consequences of taking a case shouldn't be the primary factor in deciding to accept a case. I just can easily see this becoming a circus with an ever-expanding number of participants. I'm thinking more about the ArbCom clerks more than anyone else as they are tasked with managing cases. Liz 03:19, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Akesgeroth

I have rewritten my statement to follow the 500 words rule. Anyone wishing to review the original statement when the involved parties begin pretending that I do not address some issues (or simply wishing for more information) can do so here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Akesgeroth#Statement_by_Akesgeroth

The continued contributions of four Misplaced Pages users (Ryulong, Tarc, TheRedPenOfDoom and NorthBySouthBaranof), referred to as The Four from here on out, combined with the tacit support of certain administrators acting as proxies for them threatens Misplaced Pages's integrity to an unacceptable point which will not be fixed without arbitration because of the involved party's continued abusive behavior and clear lack of remorse. They are not acting in good faith and are acting with the protection of certain administrators to edit politically sensitive topics and push their own narratives, making arbitration necessary to preserve Misplaced Pages's image. Here is a long, yet by no means complete, list of abuses committed by The Four:

https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Akesgeroth#Evidence

In summary, The Four have repeatedly rejected any evidence supporting the “ethics in gaming journalism” perspective, present their own evidence as neutral when it clearly isn't and hide behind the longevity of their accounts, the number (rather than the value) of their contributions to Misplaced Pages and flawed regulations rather than cooperate with other users in writing a neutral article. Furthermore, they viciously attack users trying to participate reasonably in the discussion, from veiled threats of administrative action on their talk page to outright editing what their opponents said.

So, considering the massive body of evidence of abuse from The Four, their obvious unwillingness to cooperate in the writing of a neutral article, their protection by users with administrative powers, the massive amount of reliable sources provided showing the misogyny perspective being denied, it is obvious that this issue will not be solved by anything short of arbitration and so strongly suggest that the request be accepted. The Gamergate controversy article needs to be either rewritten or deleted (and kept deleted) until the events are over, The Four need to be blocked from editing it or any politically charged topic in the future and administrators who acted as proxies need to be demoted. As spoken by Akesgeroth (talk) 00:31, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Cuchullain

I haven't been involved as an admin at the Gamergate article for several weeks, so it's possible I'm missing something, but I don't believe an ARBCOM case would accomplish anything new. The true problem with the article (and the other affected articles) has always been primarily from one direction: the slew of SPAs and narrow-focus accounts coming here with an agenda, and the established editors who support or enable them. The community sanctions are having a positive effect on the articles, though not as widely as they could be to crack down on pervasive disruption. This option should be explored more fully before asking ARBCOM to weigh in.--Cúchullain /c 16:23, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Future Perfect at Sunrise makes an important point that if we regard all the admins listed as parties here to be "involved" in the future, there will be no uninvolved admins left to handle the ongoing disruption. The current admins have too much on their plate as it is. I suggest the case be declined and the filer be sanctioned for a disruptive filing.--Cúchullain /c 21:10, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by TaraInDC

We have been far too indulgent of a squadron of obvious SPAs and POV pushers who have been filling the talk page with rambling, evidence-free arguments (very similar to the ones filling up this page) and stalling every damned discussion with unsupported claims of "bias!!!!" All we're doing is encouraging them by making them think that they might actually be able to shout down WP policy if they're tenacious enough, and the result is the off-wiki campaign we're seeing here. Dreadstar (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) was for a time acting as an uninvolved peacekeeper on the article, primarily warning editors against commenting on other contributors rather than focusing on content, but seems to have been inactive for a couple of days, and at any rate that should not be any one person's problem. We need more oversight and stricter enforcement of policy on that page. This might also alleviate the apparent perception that Dreadstar is 'biased' because the editors warned, blocked or topic banned under the page sanctions all tend to come from one 'camp;' as with the article topic itself, these editors appear to have confused parity with neutrality. I can't help but wonder if naming Dreadstar as a party here will have the effect of removing the admin most active in enforcing the page sanctions by rendering said admin 'involved.' As before, I don't know if arbcom is the correct solution to this problem, but I do hope that if something productive comes out of this it will be a concrete suggestion of how to see that the page sanctions are enforced quickly and uniformly.

The unsupported accusations against other editors on this page are completely inappropriate, and it seems that editors are using this request as a means to vent the types of personal attacks that would in theory lead to a topic ban if voiced on the article talk page. No more narrative epics, please and thanks: give us some proof that the problem is with the 'anti-GG' editors ("The Five," as the very prolific SPA Willhesucceed melodramatically names us) or stop whining already. Don't just tell us we're being naughty: show us. -- TaraInDC (talk) 17:44, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Note: I didn't mean to suggest that there are no other uninvolved admins acting to enforce page sanctions, only that Dreadstar has been particularly active in warning editors off of behavior that's likely to result in a topic ban. -- TaraInDC (talk) 18:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Fut.Perf.

Just a procedural note: there's the old question of whether the mere fact that an admin has been listed by some other editor as a "party" to a case request will ipso facto consitute a form of "involvement" that will bar that administrator from taking further administrative actions in the field while the case is pending. Since the filer has chosen to list pretty much every admin as a party who has ever dared to take action in the field, if we're now all suddenly "involved" because he says so, that means there'd be basically no more uninvolved admin eyes on the article, making the discretionary sanctions inoperable for days or even weeks to come.

Since this obviously can't be allowed to happen, I'll state it here outright: I personally do not consider myself a "party" in this, and therefore I will continue to be available for taking action if necessary – except and until at least one arbitrator tells me explicitly that my own previous administrative actions are a matter of concern for him/her and he/she thinks they should be scrutinized as part of a case.

@Seraphimblade: what, there are "too many people involved and too much talking past one another", and that's a reason for taking the case? Are you serious? Arbcom is the worst possible venue for situations like this. This case has all the makings for another procedural disaster like the infamous "Macedonia 2", where hordes of people motivated by external political agendas were given free rein to drown the procedure in their drivel for weeks, until clerks and arbs started randomly and erraticly hitting out with blocks against established participants who had cracked under the constant provocation and lost their temper. Arbcom is notoriously incapable of keeping situations like this under control, and I pity all the poor souls who will have to go through this. Heck, you guys are already now failing to keep order here (what with Titanium Dragon's breach of his topic ban here under your very noses, the administrative treatment of which has promptly stalled in Arbcom-procedural limbo?) – And then, what kinds of remedies would you be passing down, given the structural asymmetry of the case? There are a handful of established editors on the one side, and an army of quickly replaceable single- or narrow-purpose accounts and newbies on the other. Sure, you could sanction those on the one side if you find them at fault, and I have no doubt people will heap up massive amounts of "evidence" (valid or not) against them, but do you really expect that others should submit actionable evidence regarding each and every one of the pro-GG POV army? And even if they did and you acted upon it and banned the worst ones, what good would it do, if they are replaced with new SPAs the next day? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:55, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Black Kite

"Another problem in this situation is that there are admins who are either WP:INVOLVED on the subject taking action against their opponents while giving them a pass or admins whose actions are otherwise dubious. Some of these admins have a history of questionable use of their admin tools on other topics." Well, I am an admin, and I am named here. So do you want to actually show diffs here, or are you simply making stuff up? Oh I forgot, there aren't any diffs are there? Meanwhile, this appears to be an attempt for ArbCom to enable an off-wiki campaign to disrupt this article through the use of SPAs and previously dormant account. Frivolous filing, and the filer should be sanctioned. Although perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing if it was taken, because if it was, I foresee a rotating weapon often used by Aboriginal peoples coming back and hitting a number of people above. Oh, and as per FPAS above, I do not consider myself involved here, and reserve my right to take admin action on this subject (although I haven't for a long time). Black Kite (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

  • @The Devil's Advocate: so the fact I posted a note about an articles Zoe Quinn and Depression Quest (which were badly afflicted by misogynist editing at the time) to the Gender Gap page, is unusual? However, I did not mention the page involved in this ArbCom request (which, incidentally, looked like this at the time). You're struggling badly here - no, hang on, I'll rephrase it - you're making shit up. Stop it. Stretching someone's involvement to a couple of related pages when the page being discussed here wasn't even controversial is ridiculous. As I said above, feel free to remove me as a party. Black Kite (talk) 19:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by A Quest for Knowledge

This request never should have been filed. It's only been a week since the Committee declined a request for a GamerGate case, a request in which the filer directly participated in. I suggest a warning/admonishment/sanction/whatever-you-want-to-call-it against The Devil's Advocate for filing a frivolous request. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, perhaps ArbCom should take a limited case after what just happened at AN/I. Tarc violated his topic ban by opening this thread. Despite the facts that a) numerous uninvolved editors (such as myself) said that the tag should remain until the NPOV issues are resolved and b) the article talk page is filled with ongoing discussions of the article's NPOV problems, Mdann52 closed the thread bizarrely claiming (and I quote) "No ongoing discussion, so tag removed per consensus below." TheRedPenOfDoom then removes the NPOV tag and 18 minutes later, instead of reverting an obvious bad close, Future Perfect locks the article.

Now, perhaps the timing is purely coincidental, but given the accusation that admins have been favoring one side, perhaps ArbCom should open a limited case to examine whether admins have been enforcing community sanctions in a fair, even-handed fashion. If the accusation that admins have indeed been biased in their application of community sanctions, then the community sanctions will clearly fail. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:39, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Jehochman

Salvio, please stay on the fence; Newyorkbrad needs somebody to keep him company.  :-D I think you could hear the case as long as you prune the list of parties to remove the neutral admins who are enforcing the community sanction. I think there should be a motion to confirm that those sanctions are in effect, and that this filing does not stop them from operating, nor does it interfere with their enforcement. To do otherwise would encourage gaming the rules. Also, if you find the accusations are baseless, you should consider sanctioning the requesting party(ies) to discourage the use of Arbitration as a form of SLAPP. Jehochman 21:18, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Acroterion

As Fut.Perf. stated, listing uninvolved administrators who have acted to enforce discretionary sanctions as "involved parties" has the potential effect of neutralizing the discretionary sanctions process. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not involved until I hear otherwise from ArbCom. My initial reaction to all of this was that DS are working, more or less, that there is no indication that any POV is being suppressed on the talkpage by their application, and that the rate of BLP violations in GamerGate and related articles (my chief concern) has declined dramatically. Given that, I was inclined to recommend that ArbCom reject this request, but given the off-wiki activity campaign and the number of SPAs who keep appearing, there may be merit in accepting, particularly given the parallels with the Scientology arbitration. Acroterion (talk) 22:28, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by PhilKnight

In terms of what can be achieved by taking this case, I'd suggest the following.

  1. Topic bans as necessary for editors who are unable or unwilling to assume good faith, write with a neutral point of view, remain civil, and use reliable sources. Also topic bans for those who use the talk page to espouse their viewpoint, as opposed to discuss how to improve the article.
  2. A determination of whether the uninvolved admins (including myself) are interpreting the Biographies of Living Persons policy correctly. From the above, I gather that The Devil's Advocate and Cla68 consider that the uninvolved admins are being one sided and bitey, while as far as I'm concerned the admins are just enforcing the Biographies of Living Persons policy.
  3. Also, similar to the above, guidance as to whether the editors are interpreting the Biographies of Living Persons policy correctly. I gather that Willhesucceed considers there is an over reliance on 'strong but biased' sources, and Masem has similar concerns.

However, that said, in my humble opinion, the case as currently framed has too many parties, and is too wide in scope. I would suggest that if ArbCom is going to accept a Gamergate controversy case, then it should be more focused, otherwise the case would be unnecessarily time consuming. PhilKnight (talk) 22:58, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Robert McClenon

In the previous Request for Arbitration concerning Gamergate controversy, I asked what the filing party and supporters were asking the ArbCom to do, and in particular why the community general sanctions would not be the appropriate remedy. Failing a statement by the filing party and supporters, I said that the ArbCom should decline to take the case. Now I strongly suggest that the ArbCom accept the case. I will explain why. The primary reason is that there are certain editors whom the community cannot deal with effectively, and they are editors who polarize the community because they have both strong supporters and strong opponents. They include habitually uncivil editors who have a reputation as “excellent content creators”. It now appears that the editors who are called The Five are another class of editors who polarize the community. I make that statement without saying that they are right or that they are wrong, only that the community cannot deal with editors who polarize the community. The ArbCom can deal with editors who polarize the community. If the ArbCom finds that the principal “anti-Gamergate” editors have been engaging in ownership and battleground editing of the Gamergate article, it can impose sanctions on them. If the ArbCom finds that the principal “anti-Gamergate” editors have not engaged in sanctionable behavior, then any persistence in that claim will become a sanctionable personal attack by the critics. Either the principal “anti-Gamergate” editors deserve to be sanctioned, or they deserve to be vindicated, rather than constantly attacked by other editors.

A secondary reason is that, due to the excessive level of threats of doxing and claims of doxing, it may be necessary to consider evidence involving actual identity information that is only permitted for highly trusted functionaries such as the arbitrators.

Because one of the limits of the community process is that the community cannot deal with editors who polarize the community, I ask that the ArbCom now accept this case.

Robert McClenon (talk) 00:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

There is a thread in progress at WP:ANI in which a proposal is being made to topic-ban User:Ryulong from Gamergate controversy. Although it is clear that the thread will be closed with a consensus against, the thread illustrates my observation above that sometimes the community is polarized by particular editors, including Ryulong. Either Ryulong deserves to be sanctioned, or he deserves to be vindicated, or he deserves to be vindicated in general but with an admonition (which is what I would recommend). Only the ArbCom can sanction or vindicate Ryulong and other "anti-Gamergate" editors. Please accept the case. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Whatever you do (pass a motion, lock it down, empower some discretionary sanctions) DON'T accept this case. That will make sure that this issue remains unresolved for at least six ten months or longer. Volunteer Marek  00:17, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Dave Dial(DD2K)

It's unbelievable to me that a few contentious editors(TDA, Tutelary, Cla68) aided by an admin(Masem) who claims to be neutral(which it is painfully obvious he is not) can cause such a shit storm. ArbCom has allowed this to go on for far too long, and if you don't have the guts to make the tough decisions, then resign. Masem, TDA and the rest have allowed articles and their Talk pages related to 'gamergate' to be disrupted by SPAs over and over and over. With the dozens of links known to the committee from outside sites driving this fiasco, what the Hell are you waiting for? Many of you seem all too eager to take the DP case below, and in fact desysop him at the drop of a hat wit no cause. Yet sit on your collective hands as this stupid shit spirals into the mess it is now. You all should be ashamed that editors at the article and their Talk pages have been bombarded by SPAs and shit stirrers, Masem aids and abets, and the cycle goes on and on, and ArbCom kicks the can down the road. Dave Dial (talk) 02:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

@User:Masem - You can bet that links will be provided if this case is accepted. For now, all anyone has to do is look at your contributions on the article and the Talk page. And your tactics are pretty well summed up on the most recent ANI episode. You have consistently and unrelentingly made long time editors jump through hoops to keep out reliably sourced material from mainstream outlets, and have accepted and tried to insert fringe material from SPAs. Over and over and over. Your claim of neutrality is laughable. Dave Dial (talk) 19:44, 11 November 2014 (UTC) I just want to add that despite my harsh wording, I respect people who have the fortitude to serve on the committee. Saying that, I think a simple way to solve this case is to give out several topic bans of anything related to women or feminism(broadly construed) and then set the gamergate article, its Talk page, and all related pages(broadly construed) to "pending changes" protection. For 6 months. Inform the admins over at the Reviewer Rights to not give the right out to new accounts. Thanks. Dave Dial (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Dreadstar

I consider myself uninvolved in this matter as I have only acted in an administrative capacity on GamerGate related articles. This appears to be yet another attempt by Devil's Advocate to disenfranchise admins who remain neutral and enforce policy as well as editors who do not side with DA. DA has persistently attacked admins enforcing the GamerGate Discretionary sanctions or other policy violations on editors who seem to share DA's POV; here are but a few examples: , , . There are more, and if this case is accepted, I'll provide more examples. In this case, I suggest WP:BOOMERANG on the filer, DA should be indefinitely banned from GamerGate related articles. Dreadstar ☥ 16:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved John Carter

I suggest the case be taken as per Salvio's comments below. If this is, as he says, the third time that a request for action on this topic has been made in the past couple of weeks, there is some clear evidence that at least some individuals are trying to avoid talking to each other and instead talking to ArbCom to start a case. Collective beating on a dead horse can I suppose sometimes in itself be grounds for arbitration action, if there seems to be a rather longish line of people holding sticks waiting to relieve each other as the earlier corpse abusers get blocked, finally get some sleep, etc. John Carter (talk) 17:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Protonk

It seems we may accept this case. If we do, I recommend two things:

  • "Off-wiki" coordination (a bit of a misnomer here as the coordination predates and is not largely concerned with wikipedia) and message discipline are ongoing and have been since the disputes over this article arose. Both the content goal ("gamergate is a movement about ethics in journalism, harassment is limited to bad eggs whom the community has disavowed, further the actions against gaters are just as bad but are being papered over because of unfair media coverage") and the methods (high volume of complaints about bias and equal time, doxxing of involved participants, all the while stating that it would be bad to harass these enemies of truth and justice, etc.) are coordinated in various places--4chan, before a bunch of people got kicked; 8chan's /gg board; TumblrInAction and KotakuInAction as well as other IRC channels and imageboards. This is not a paranoid wikipedia's fever dream, it is something established by reliable sources for this subject specifically. This coordination doesn't indict individual editors per se, but it exists. Do not ignore it.
  • Long term editor behavior has not been optimal, but resist the urge to focus on editor behavior as this is exactly the playbook for the above coordination (and one well worn from every FRINGE dispute which makes it to ArbCom). Don't overlook wrongs, but consider the volume and relative calm of the GG talk page as a testament to the repetitive and stressful nature of the debate. This is a content outcome, but we should not carry water for a movement (where it is acting as a movement) which represents a reactionary and sexist bid to rewrite history just for the PR. The core of GG is about making everything "about ethics in games journalism" while the whole of the controversy carries on with women, critics and indie developers harassed and anti-feminist allies found on the right. It's ugly tribalism and there are a small number of editors (now targeted on 8chan) working to make sure our article doesn't present this fringe view as reality. Do not forget that.

Be prepared to deal with bullshit and don't waste your time or ours. Protonk (talk) 16:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough (GG)

This is always going to be a difficult area, until the text-books are written about it. The polarising nature of the debate ensures that the majority of people, which includes many of us, believe that they are NPOV on the subject, while actually taking either one side or the other. The normal recourse to RS is difficult, because one side of the dispute is (at least to some extent) the people who normally write the RS. Thus it is not surprising that there is conflict. Nonetheless there is common ground even among those most affected by the dispute, for example the guy that runs 8Chan was interviewed recently and condemned the treatment of Quinn, Quinn was also interviewed recently and said some nice things about gamers in general. While of course the trolling on both sides continues, the people who actually matter are acting like real human beings. I see great efforts being made on talk pages to reach consensus, but I also see edit warring and intransigence. It is up to the community to develop a modus vivendi to deal with these issues.

In the event that ArbCOm can be part of that solution by lowering the temperature and perhaps pace, then am Arbcom case could be a good thing. Blocking can be left I think to AN/I, if editors adopt a battleground mentality, or edit war.

Statement by Pudeo

The administrative actions of Dreadstar have been peculiar here. In particular, this this 3RR report concerning 12 reverts in 24 hours was closed as no action by Dreadstar because it was stale 15 hours later. The adminstrator in question often arrives to do clutch decisions that seem to be completely one-sided to me. Dreadstar also closed the ANI thread mentioned in TDA's statement, again of course the people who are for the "anti"-POV (Ryulong et. al.) got off the hook. The Gamergate talk page and edit notes have had horrendous language, usually from Ruylong and Tarc (scanning for the word "fuck" may give a quick idea), but they have never been admonished as even the ANI was quickly closed by Dreadstar. One view referenced in the article itself is that the Gamergate controversy is a "culture war" (feminism/anti-feminism). This in my opinion explains why "uninvolved" admins as well can have plenty of external motives to act in a partisan way. It's definitely not a good thing if such cliques form in the admin corps. --Pudeo' 01:53, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by AuerbachKeller

Ryulong made a problematic BLP edit referencing me as chronicled on the Gamergate:Talk page. When I politely requested that he not cite me in the future due to this incident, he accused me in multiple places on WP of threatening him: On my own talk page and on the Gamergate talk page He is now telling Drmies to revoke my confirmed status and to tell me to stay away from him (Ryulong). Ryulong's behavior appears to be a WP:CONDUCT violation on the grounds of civility at the very least. I hope this issue will be addressed. Auerbachkeller (talk) 19:36, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)

I think this is working, and I hope more admins will get involved in enforcement. Editing on the talk page has really stabilised over the past three days and progress is being made on the draft since the main article was put under full protection. Editors with different opinions are reaching consensus on major issues of content and structure in this admittedly imperfect article.

I'm trying to direct conduct issues (some of which are admittedly severe) towards dispute resolution in user talk pages as the like, and this will work if given a chance. I'm not encountering any serious opposition. Keep this open for a few more weeks, perhaps. This topic is time sensitive, ephemeral. Consensus is coalescing as reliable sources grow in unanimity.

There may be a case for community action on some disputes, and in some cases a 2004-style summary motion may help. The admins are still timid. Perhaps a motion encouraging them to take action is in order.

Update 21:52, 19 November 2014 (UTC). I'm unhappy with the apparent existence of a rather ugly external campaign. I'm stepping away from Misplaced Pages for a while. I now think arbitration is inevitable though I'm uncertain what it can achieve in the circumstances. Good luck, and please make sure you lock down the arbitration mailing lists.

Statement by previously involved IP user

I am making a new statement as my first was rejected as too long.

Let me preface this by noting that I find the prejudice against so-called "SPA"s here mind-boggling. Every account is, by definition, an SPA the moment the first edit is made. It's unreasonable to expect new users to begin work on multiple articles simultaneously, and not devote special attention to any of them - especially if that user then gets dragged into WP:BRD.

But what really irritates me about the current situation is all the double standards.

Claims about "obvious SPAs and POV pushers who have been filling the talk page with rambling, evidence-free arguments... unsupported claims of "bias!!!!" are made here unironically, without citing the evidence of POV-pushing, and in spite of other statements that exhaustively cite the claims of bias on the part of User:TaraInDC and others. Meanwhile, when a small team of like-minded editors are responsible for a huge percentage of the edits to both the page itself and the talk page, they seem somehow immune to accusations of WP:OWN and WP:TAGTEAM. The same editors claim a "consensus" against the WP:NPOV tag on the article, and then say "consensus is not a vote" when basically everyone else objects.

Accusing admins etc. of being SPAs and pushing for them to be banned somehow doesn't WP:BOOMERANG on some, while relatively minor issues do on others. Some accounts get sanctioned for 3RR, while others get away with 15RR. I get chastised for WP:BLP when I try to explain what Gjoni actually said on the talk page, while other editors apparently get to misrepresent the sources and make false allegations against Gjoni in the actual article content (1, 2).

I see complaints about WP:GAMING by people who are trying to figure out how to make a case that will actually stick, after all the flagrant violations that have been ignored due to what looks like blatant WP:GAMING to those individuals. They're condemned for "organizing offsite" to figure this out - even though editors are supposedly allowed to do/say what they want off of Misplaced Pages in general, and complain loudly when those actions are cited as evidence of bias.

(Most of the above is a synthesis of other users' statements and my observation thereof. Please let me know if you feel any additional citations are necessary.)

Per comments User:Ryulong made in previous ANI action, it seems he considers himself qualified to judge his own lack of bias. He also promised there: "I will keep away more than the 48 hours it took for me to get bored sitting in Hong Kong airport with nothing to do for 5 hours." That was on October 23, and as far as I can tell from the revision history, this did not happen. I point this out for the benefit of those who have been counselling Ryulong to calm down and step away for a bit (Robert McClenon; Jimbo Wales).

74.12.93.242 (talk) 13:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by very marginally involved user xaosflux

I am only involved if the use of the PC2 protection level as an WP:IAR action in violation of the protection policy as an extraordinary measure is being addressed by arbcom. I participated in and endorsed Cuchullain's use of PC2 on the Zoe Quinn article as an extraordinary control. This was endorsed on WP:RFPP as well. — xaosflux 03:01, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Kurtis

I urge the Arbitration Committee to accept this case. Gamergate has become a spiraling cesspool of vitriol, the likes of which I've never seen before. This isn't just a bunch of fringe theorists trying to use dispute resolution as a means of pushing an agenda; this is one of the nastiest disputes in the history of Misplaced Pages. The two sides have stooped to casting vile aspersions against one another, poisoning the entire atmosphere of the main article and related pages. This has spilled onto ANI, AN3, and elsewhere on an almost daily basis. At the very least, something must be done to stem the tide of aggression, because it's making collaborative editing virtually impossible. We cannot sweep this thing under the rug any longer, because it will only fester until we're looking at a mess of gargantuan proportions. Kurtis 06:27, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by previously involved Bosstopher

I'd like to reiterate the points I made here. The article is a scary place where everyone is too suspicious of each other to act collaboratively, or view any suggestions made by editors they dislike as legitimate. Everyone's convinced the other side's out to get them, and as a result of this are out to get the other side, so by the end of it regardless of initial intentions it becomes ultimately impossible to edit this article without giving into (a worryingly justified) paranoia. Over the course of this article being edited, two editors have been doxxed. The reaction to this doxxing was one of little sympathy. Another editor of the article has had to turn his twitter to private, due to the harassment he has received for his editing. And as a lot of the other statements mention 8chan is now trying to dig up dirt on the people they dislike.

Further adding to atmosphere of suspicion are the actions of editors such as Loganmac. Loganmac has been broadcasting the conversations of the Gamergate controversy talk page through twitter and the subreddit KotakuInAction. There is of course nothing wrong with doing this alone, other editors like Tarc and TheDevilsAdvocate have also broadcasted their editing sagas and contacted those embroiled in the controversy. However in both their cases they have acted to clear up confusion regarding the article, tried to explain why it is how it is, and have apologized and clarified when they have made factual errors. Loganmac has now spread false information about other editors through KotakuinAction, at least twice now. In both cases he has refused to clarify the incorrect information he was spreading. He has also lied about these events on wiki claiming Ryulong was stalking his twitter and reddit accounts when in reality (as evident in the very diff Logan cited) I, who track both the twitter hashtag and KiA out of interest in the controversy, brought the posts to his attention. Logan has been acting to heavily inflame the situation.

As a result of events like the ones I have described above, people editing this article do not trust each other. Including this hilarious ANI, in which Ryulong accuses an admin of being an SPA that's out to get him, and accuses me of "solely Misplaced Pages to push the "pro-Gamergate" agenda," a somewhat cynical claim given that in two of the few times we interacted in our editing, I was pushing for the inclusion of material that could be considered Anti-GG, and defending the article from a pro-GG POV pusher (dont know how to link deleted diffs, but it's from 22:51 26/09). Similarly Ryulong assumed when Willhesucceed posted an article highlighting misogyny and abuse in Gamergate, that he had done the exact opposite.

In conclusion everything is dreadful and there's probably no way to fix it. Good luck Arbcom! Also sorry for mostly focusing on you, Ryulong and Loganmac, your actions were those that remained the freshest in my mind.

Statement by Sookenon

Not much to say, except maybe to bring this to your attention.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a VEEEEEEERRRRRY good feeling that you gents on the Arbitration Committee might want to take a look at this:

https://twitter.com/milky_candy/status/531771040444461056

https://twitter.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FCase Sookenon (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Hustlecat

Hi all,

I have been following the constellation of editors, articles and complaints on this subject for a couple months now, while trying to keep my input minimal. I have briefly offered my opinion previously and would like to do so now.

This issue brings to mind the gender gap (particularly in tech). However, rather than being driven solely by inaction, entrenched attitudes, and the status quo, this involves overt threats and harassment of female developers, writers, and social scientists interested in video games. That is, there are people actively working against the equal treatment of women in a popular modern art form/tech product (regardless of whether they understand it that way). This is scary to those who support an end to gender discrimination.

I mentioned previously that this is similar to other "culture war" issues, in that it is exploitative of false balance to tilt the discussion in the desired direction even when facts say otherwise. I think the fourth and last paragraphs of Hasteur's now-moved comments and replies shed light on how this is happening here.

I want to address the issue of the targeted editors. Many of the complaints about their behavior are bald-faced attempts to enrage from their ideological opponents. A couple complaints resulted in justified warnings. However, I consider the warned behavior to be defensible, and not surprising, as they are being hounded by both external harassment and on-wiki "sea lioning". It is a testament to their dedication to policy and accuracy that they have kept their cool to the extent that they have while under fire.

Those targeted are doing good work in the topic area; it may look like WP:TAGTEAM and WP:OWN because there are very real threats of "doxxing" and harassment for potential newcomers who effectively contribute in ways that opponents dislike. (I'll admit that that is why I haven't gotten deeply involved.) However, editors who will champion the RSes and boldly advocate for an article that represents reality (and respond to those relentlessly and baselessly attacking RSes) are necessary for a good article. I believe the targeted users' contributions should not be undervalued due to behavioral blips (I have Ryulong and Tarc in mind here, although I'm seeing others begin to lose patience and slip- exactly what their opponents want). This is not meant as an apology for bad behavior; I mean that those who have been targeted for following policy are understandably defensive. Uninvolved users seem hesitant to come to their or the article's defense due to the potential threats both on-wiki (being reported repeatedly for overblown reasons) and off (threats, harassment). I don't think the targeted editors should be penalized for momentarily digging in their heels, losing civility, or forgetting to assume good faith amidst an onslaught of comments and edits that have often been baity , repetitive , and hostile to RSes as well as standard policy .

Thanks for reading.

--Hustlecat 07:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Count me in with MarkB about being slightly confused about why DSA510 pinged me. If he's really trying to say that there is no external off-wiki coordination... I think enough other statements here have provided evidence to the contrary. If he's trying to say that there are threats to both sides of getting doxxed over this, that is superficially true (just as I could theoretically be doxxed if I pissed off the wrong guy over, say, the wiki article on tomatoes), but trying to take a controversy that has begun because real people have been doxxed and harassed for their beliefs that women should be treated as equals in society and claim "but wait, one angry person did something to me, therefore both sides are equal" sounds like gratuitous attention-seeking at best, and is blatantly insulting to real victims at worst. DSA510, I'm sorry you feel that way, and it's truly a shame that it has happpened to you, and I know you probably didn't mean it in the ways it came across to me, but please consider that what happened to you is what has been happening to women involved in video games all along, simply for expressing their opinions and creating games that treat women as people and try to understand where those arguing with you are coming from. Peace, Hustlecat 00:01, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Resolute

Uninvolved, looking to stay that way. My comment, given the case appears to be on the verge of acceptance, is simple: This dispute is largely a battle between Neutral point of view, and Misogynistic point of view. And if there is one thing Gamergate has amply demonstrated, it is that there are a great many misogynists willing to harass and threaten all opposition into silence. So please, arbs, be careful that you don't become unwitting tools for their cause. Resolute 14:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (somewhat involved) Remorseless Angel

I'm a semi-involved editor in this case, in that I've attempted to make one minor edit to the article and was turned off from any further contribution. I added myself as a party because I wanted to share with ArbCom my experiences from a mostly outside editor, though please do keep in mind that my involvement is brief and that I do not have full information on what is happening in this article.

The main issues that I see with the topic is the battleground mentality that editors on both sides seem to have devolved into. After making my edit (an nPoV issue that would have been a no-brainer on any other article), I became involved in an argument with RPoD where he - and later Ryulong - made subtle accusations against me. I didn't comment further in the discussion because it was resolved in a manner that I did not need to contest, but the general assumption of "you're either with us or against us" left a pretty nasty taste in my mouth.

I could definitely understand it from the point of the aforementioned five members. I have been on both 4chan and Reddit for long enough to know how asinine they can get when they unite for some reason, and I'm sure the article was filled with people trying to push an agenda without actual regard for neutrality. Nonetheless, this type of mentality is damaging since it quickly pushes away new editors, so ultimately the page becomes effectively owned by the same group of pro-GG and anti-GG Wikipedians with most other people watching from the sidelines, at best.

I don't really want to take sides in this issue since I disagree with both sides, but I do want to summarize a few of my own observations:

  • This issue is not just "Ryulong and co." vs "neutral Wikipedians", or "Neutrality defenders" vs "pro-GG pushers from 8chan". While there are definitely agenda pushing on both sides, there are many Wikipedians on both sides that are well-intentioned and just getting a bit too heated.
  • Many experienced wikipedians are viewing the article as a battleground, with people being categorized on the fly as "PoV-pushing anti-gg" or "pro-gg fringe-pushing misogynist" and editors judging others by a hastily-assigned label rather than on merits.
  • I can't see any benefit from blindly banning users from either side, and doing so is effectively taking sides in an issue.
  • Rather than acting on users, the best way to resolve this is to make a definitive ruling on how to handle bias on sources. This might have implications on other articles, but would eliminate a greater part of this entire debate and allow the admins to effectively act as arbitrators.

That is just my opinions as a mostly uninvolved editor. Keep in mind that my experience with the article is limited, though, so please do take what I say with a massive grain of salt. I am also more than willing to retract my statements if proven wrong.

↢ RemorA ↣ 16:47, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by MarkBernstein

With regard to the “Update” supplied a short time ago by @Loganmac: I have read the reddit thread cited there, and see no clear support for the allegation made in that paragraph that a specific editor is engaged in paid editing. In a regular talk page discussion, I would be inclined to delete such a comment as a probable WP:BLP issue, perhaps also nodding at WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, and WP:FORUM. Different standards apply here, of course, but do they extend this far? MarkBernstein (talk) 16:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Update: in light of off-wiki efforts to inquire into Ryulong’s sexuality, address, and religious affiliation -- efforts which appear to be coordinated with a campaign to convince Arbcom to accept this case -- I urge the committee to take special care before rewarding behavior that now considerably exceeds forum shopping. MarkBernstein (talk) 20:59, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


@DungeonSiegeAddict510 calls me out for some misdeed above, but I'm not sure what is objecting to. Huh? MarkBernstein (talk) 23:12, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by {other user}

Clerk notes -Gamergate

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
  • I'm not a clerk and have no desire to be, but I'll borrow this area because I have no comment to make on the case request. I'm just noting that Titanium Dragon is topic-banned from the GamerGate area and a complaint was filed at AE to the effect that TD's comment here violated the topic ban. Since the alleged violation took place on a case request, I'll leave it to ArbCom or clerks to determine whether the ban was violated and whether any action is necessary. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:54, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

GamerGate: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <6/2/1/0>-GamerGate-2014-11-10T02:19:00.000Z">

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

  • Recuse. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)"> ">
  • First of all, a procedural request: a lot of people have already commented on this case request and even more will probably do as well; so, to avoid making this page an unreadable wall of text, I'm asking everyone to please stick to the rules and be careful not to use more than 500 words in their statements. If you have used more, please shorten your statement in a reasonable amount of time, or it will have to be removed in its entirety.

    Another thing, please do not make accusations unless you can provide diffs supporting them. Accusations without evidence are disruptive and repeatedly casting aspersions on other users may lead to sanctions.

    On the merits, I haven't made up my mind yet whether to accept this case or not. I admit that I'm starting to think the circumstance we have received, in less than a month, three different case requests on the same issue, each submitted by a different person, might seem to point to the fact that the community cannot successfully deal with this dispute and that it would probably be a good idea for ArbCom to step in. At the same time, I don't want to give the impression that by failing to drop a stick, someone can force us to take a case which, technically, would not be ripe for arbitration yet. So, as I said, I'm still on the fence. Salvio 18:52, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

    • Accept. Salvio 14:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
      • @Tarc: again I will point out that we have discretionary sanctions in place that have barely been tried, I know and that's why I was on the fence. The problem is that I see this dispute expanding and expanding and, quite frankly, it does not appear that the discretionary sanctions are helping much.

        I do encourage more admins to get involved, hoping that a case can be avoided, but as things are right now, I'm afraid our intervention seems inevitable. Also, re. your suggestion that arbs place the GamerGate noticeboard on our watchlist, personally I'd rather not do that, because then I would be prevented from hearing a hypothetical case.

        Finally, for the admins who have asked: in my opinion, if you were uninvolved before, you continue to be even though you have been added as parties to this request, which means that you can continue enforcing the community sanctions. If we accept the case, we'll probably have to prune the list of parties anyway... Salvio 13:28, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

  • I tend to agree with Salvio. At this point, though, I think there may be too many people involved and too much talking past one another for anything short of arbitration to have a good chance of resolution. I do echo Salvio's insistence that allegations of misconduct be backed with evidence in the form of diffs, or be redacted. Slinging accusations without backing them with evidence is itself a form of misconduct. Seraphimblade 23:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
    • Accept, and in addition to WTT's suggestions, I would note that we will be taking a very firm hand with bickering and sniping during the case, as well as off-topic discussions. Seraphimblade 20:19, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Decline. The entire situation surrounding this article and the off-wiki controversies underlying it is certainly unhealthy, but I perceive little basis for criticizing any administrator actions relating to it, and still see no reason to believe that an arbitration case would yield more useful results than applying the existing community-originated general sanctions. I'll add that if, contrary to my vote, we were to take a case, it should be handled in a highly expedited manner to avoid its becoming a complete circus. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:11, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Grudgingly Accept. I've kept quiet on this topic and done a lot of reading. We've got so many factors at play here that I think we need a case. I'm especially concerned about the off-wiki co-ordination. I'm not sure what Arbcom can do to improve the situation, but I agree with an expedited case, and firmly holding to deadlines and word limits. Worm(talk) 10:08, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Accept I do not like the "keep asking till you get you want" feeling I get from these repeated requests, but at the end of the day it does appear these problems are spiraling out of control. I think this may be a situation where a temporary injunction at the start of the case may be in order, and I fully agree that a firm hand and an accelerated timeline would also be helpful. Beeblebrox (talk) 05:48, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment - am not decided yet and wary of accepting a case so soon after we declined the previous request to give time for community sanctions to work or not. I might have accepted if a month had gone by and the same problems were occurring, but this is too soon. I will vote whether to accept or not after the weekend. Can someone provide a brief summary of how things have gone in the 5 days or so since this new request was filed. Carcharoth (talk) 06:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
  • This dispute is clearly damaging the encyclopedia. Accept, to examine user conduct. AGK 20:54, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
  • This seems quite inevitable, but I'm unsure what actions we can take, except for discretionary sanctions, which due to the type of issue at play may have mixed success. NativeForeigner 04:57, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Weak (is that a thing?) decline Pretty huge case here. I'm not sure that General sanctions are adequate, but on the other hand this case as framed is huge and in my mind is liable to, at the end of the day, accomplish little directly. It looks like this will be accepted, and I'll probably try to help shape it if it does, but I'm not convinced taking it is the best course of action. NativeForeigner 19:00, 19 November 2014 (UTC)