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welcome

Hello Farhoudk! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing!--Sa.vakilian 02:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC) Getting Started Misplaced Pages Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Misplaced Pages Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Misplaced Pages rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Cleaning up vandalism Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

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Salam. I'm glad to meet you and offer to add your name in the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Shi'a Islam#members.--Sa.vakilian 02:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Ja'fari jurisprudence

Please add the reference for what you put in this page.--Sa.vakilian 02:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam. Az inke talash mikonid maghale ra kamel konid motshakkeram. Amma bayad yadavary konam ke be jaye manba'e farsi tarjome engelisi an ra ke hatman rooye web hast biavarid. Omidvaram ozve faale proje tashayyo beshavid.--Sa.vakilian 14:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

{Religious democracy

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy close - this nomination is a complete mess - it is impossible to see what is nominated for deletion and what is merely comment. Feel free to open individual AFDs for individual pages or clear groups of pages. Yomangani 15:47, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Religious democracy

Please see Talk:Religious democracy. This is the greatest piece of misinformation and falsehood.--Patchouli 14:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Iranian Revolutionary Guard Official in Tehran University Lecture (Part I): Islam Has Nothing in Common with Democracy--Patchouli 13:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

This lecture being real or unreal is the opinions of its lecturer. It is clear that he is an exterimist. Farhoudk 12:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• Calling for Religious tolerance? Have you heard of Bahais?
• Rule of law? http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/18/iran12214.htm

Have you ever heard of Great Britain's old policy of "Divide and Conquer"? Farhoudk 12:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Khatami

• Khatami? http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=401

Crowd: No more lies! No more lies! No more lies! No more lies! No more lies!

Those students were mainly secular reformists. They are against religious democracy and believe secular democracy. Farhoudk 12:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Ethics?????!!!!!!!!!

Here is a specific list of Khomeini's execution orders of noteworthy people.

• Ali Dashti
• Sadegh Ghotbzadeh
• Amir Abbas Hoveyda
• Hassan Pakravan
• General Nader Jahanbani

Many thousands of others were also executed for religious or political reasons.

In his memoirs, Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, who was himself pivotal in founding the Islamic Republic, gives gruesome details of Khomeini's 1988 Massacre of Iranian Prisoners after the Iran-Iraq War. Khomeini's fatwa reads:

"It is decreed that those who are in prisons throughout the country and remain steadfast in their support for the Monafeqin (Mojahedin) are waging war on God and are condemned to execution." — Christina Lamb, Khomeini fatwa 'led to killing of 30,000 in Iran', The Daily Telegraph, 2 April 2001

I think religion has priority over ethics.--Patchouli 13:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Why are you repetedly referring to monarchists? It is 21st century! Farhoudk 12:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

"democratic systems" ...are liable to the most flagrant abuse and diverse interpretation ====

[http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/August/Khomeini/ Democracy? I meant theocracy The most truthful individual ] Come on!--Patchouli 13:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Iran student riots, July 1999

This article is a betrayal against all those activists and everyday people who have been tortured, lost their lives, been persecuted, lied to, etc.--Patchouli 14:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• That is an argument against content, not against an article's existence. If you feel material is in error, be bold and correct it; if you feel NPOV is greatly violated, take it to requests for comment. Procedural speedy keep due to lack of jurisdiction. Alba 15:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Human rights in Islamic Republic of Iran

• Zahra Kazemi
• Atefeh Rajabi
• Evin prison

Human rights? Come on!--Patchouli 14:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Your thoughts

• Maybe keep Perhaps we should keep to demonstrate as a case in point of a "democracy". However, I defer to others to proffer their inputs.--Patchouli 15:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Procedural speedy keep This mess of an AfD. User can refile individually according to proper procedure and then cite policy based reasons for deletions in each case. · XP · 15:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• Procedural speedy keep, consider moving discussion(s) to RfC: The user appears to have content objections that xe feels were unresolvable on talk pages . The correct escalation for a talk page dispute is not AfD but RfC. Nonetheless, user retains the right to re-nominate articles according to AfD standards and practices. Alba 15:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Democracy is not Secularism!

Democracy Democracy is one of the propositions that has always been afflicted with confusion and misunderstanding. Hence, many religious people are afraid of approaching it.

Definitions:

•A situation or system in which everyone is equal and has the right to vote and make decisions,

•A government by all classes for the benefit of all classes.

•A government of the people by the people and for the people.

Democracy is an anti-tyranny theory. It is about what politics we should opt for that will allow us freedom of choice.

Three foundational principles constitute bedrock of democracy:

•the will of the majority,

•freedom

•equality

Characteristics of a democratic government •Respect of the rule law •Accountability •Transparency •Participation by civil society.

Democracy is engaged in a never ending process of making choices.

Secularism

Has two distinct meanings:

1.It asserts the:

•Freedom of religion, and •Freedom from religion, •State is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions.

2.It refers to a belief that: •Human activities and decisions should be based on evidence and fact, and not superstitious beliefs, however devoutly held, •Policy should be free from religious domination.

A secularist would argue that such issues are relevant to public policy-making, whereas Biblical interpretation or church doctrine should not be considered and are irrelevant.

Democracy vs Secularism

We should distinguish between two contexts: •Context of definition, which is a mental context: In the context of definition, we opt for a particular definition and say that democracy means this or that. •Objective context which exists outside the mind: Other elements, such as secularism, coincide with it and this is a different issue.

What occurs externally is coincidence not unity.

Example: water, heat, boiled water. We do not bring in the element of heat in defining water. In the external and objective world, water coincides with heat and it boils. This is the coincidence of heat and water.

Democracy where coincides with certain things, it can be secular or religious.

Democracy is not violated when a faith is embraced, it is violated when a particular belief is imposed or disbelief is punished.

We do not have one democracy but many democracies from ancient Greece to today.

We have a plurality of democracies in the international community.

What emerged was that a democracy prevailed in different eras depending on the conditions of the time.

Religious Democracy / Secular Democracy

Religious democracy is an example of how democratic values can exist in a different cultural elaboration than what is usually known in the EU or US– indeed.

Religious democracy means that the values of religion play a role in the public arena in a society populated by religious people.

But, in a secular society, some other characteristic is deemed important and focused on, and that becomes the basis for democracy.

Hence, what alters the hue and color of democracy is a society’s specific characteristics and elements.

Now it is also evident why secular and Islamic rules are not 100% compatible.

Islam and Democracy

Is a democratic Islamic state possible?

Cons:

•Secularists: We share the ideals of a democratic society, and a secular state. We therefore favor the firm separation of religion and state. Without such a separation there can be no freedom from tyranny. The sovereignty of the people dominates.

•Legalists: Democracy may be accepted in a Christian society but it can never enjoy a general acceptance in an Islamic society. Christianity is devoid of a Shariah or a comprehensive system of life to which its adherents should be committed. Anything outside of the rigid, but pervasive, interpretation of the Shariah is rejected. The sovereignty of God prevails; there is no role for the sovereignty of people. The concept of free will is not recognized.

It is almost certain that legalists do not represent the majority of Muslims.

Pros:

•Ayatollah Khomeini: The concepts of time and place are essentials in Dynamic Fiqh (Saheb Javaher Fiqh). All of the modern societies rules such as social security, insurance, labor’s law, municipality systems etc can be considered as state authorities of Islamic state. These types of rules which are outcomes of human experience and understanding are categorized as state commandments, beside primary commandments and secondary commandments in Fiqh. And the Islamic state has absolute and not limited nor bounded right to enact state commandments at all, even if it violates the primary or secondary commandments of Islam. The basis is the people’s vote. Muslim people not only have right to build their own Islamic state in absence of infallibles and it is not against Shariah, but also they must do it.

•Former Iranian president Khatami: "I, as the proponent of religious democracy, believe that no one in the world accepts anything other than democracy. Democracy has been inevitable so that it should comply with religious, ethical and moral values in our society." "Every work we may do to put aside Islam or democracy, it would be an attempt to torpedo the basic goals of the Islamic Revolution." "Today, two groups are the two blades of a scissors, preventing the genuine reform movement seeking religious democracy: One group consists of those with backward mentality who think the less freedom a society enjoys, the stronger religion will be. They oppose the democratic process and want to put down expectations of the youth. The second blade of the scissors is the group including those who believe that religion should be put aside from the scene of life in order to establish democracy and freedom."

•Dr. Soroush: There is a crucial distinction between religion and religious understanding by emphasizing that religious understanding is merely a variety of human understanding. Religion remains constant, while religious understanding changes. Fiqh is the religious experience of religion. God reveals religion, but it is up to us to understand and realize it. Secularism, democracy and other human understandings do not threaten religion; they merely help to increase the understanding of religion. Human understanding of Islam does not necessarily have all the answers. There is always room for improvement. Religion’s most important function is ethics. In other words, if we were to change religion, one should put ethics in its place. A religion in which this element is lacking is no longer religion.

•Professor Mehmet Aydin,Turkish Minister for Religious Affairs: Democracy is based on ethical values and of course Islam agrees with these values. Islam teaches us to love and respect our fellow human beings, so human rights are not incompatible with Islam.

Democratic religious circles in Iran

These groups are characterized by the followings:

•Support for Islamic republic as the best form of government

•Calling for Religious tolerance

•Calling for democratic values

•Rejecting liberalism

•Rejecting secularism

•Calling for the rule of law and civil society

•They believe that ethics has priority over politics.

The main thinker and theorist of this circle is Mohammad Khatami, former president of Iran.

What is done by various governors in various countries should not be considered in theoritical discussions. In fact they are responsible for their own faults. The important point is to improve collective underestanding of human kind.

Sahife-ye-Noor صحیفه نور

I regret to say that I could not find any translation for the valuable reference book "Sahife-ye-Noor صحیفه نور" to English language. This book contains all lectures of Ayatollah Khomeini from about 1962 to 1989, which covers his entire political life.

The official website of the office responsible for publication of his works is: http://www.imam-khomeini-isf.com/

One can evidently find very clearly his backing of democracy through this book.

But I wonder how theocrats and seculars are jointly against idea of "Religious Democracy". Doing in this way, both groups are against natural progress of democracy in Iran.

God help us all!

Rejecting liberalism

Tell me on my talk page why Islamists reject liberalism.

Jimmy Carter favored Khomeini until the Iran hostage crisis. The liberals in France would not allow Mohammad Reza Pahlavi to seek refuge there after he left Iran.--Patchouli 20:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Mullacracy

Dear friend,

I am sorry for misunderestanding of valuable concepts and inventing such a strange term of "Mullacracy". Although some references have been put in the article about Mullacracy but beleive me that those references are merely political actions of their writers.

Please do not put those warnings in my article about "Religious Democracy" and instead you can create a section entitled ==Criticism==. Also please do not mix political aspects of our life with our underestandings of terms and concepts. You can put something in your ==Criticism== section which are based on some underestandings which shows contradictions in my article and helps me to correct myself.

And about your question of relationship between Islam and liberalism; I should mention that Islam and liberalism have some common ideas and at the same time have some differences. Islamic liberalism is defined in various verses of Quran. For example the most famouse verse about liberalism and relationship between muslims and other people is mentioned in Sura 3 verse 64 which the translation is as follow: "Oh all who beleave in books (mainly Jews, Christians and Muslims) come to one word which is the same among us that not to praise but God and not to associate him with anything and not to take some of us the others their masters instead of God ..." And also there is famous phrase belong to Imam Ali (PBUH) who said "Do not be slave of others, because God determined you free" In this context it is clear that in Islamic point of view freedom of nobody should be violated by freedom of others and this is Islamic liberalism. The Christians and Jews are free to do their religious commandments in Islamic societies and we have MP from both minorities in Parliament as well as from other minorities like Zorostrians in Iran.

About Jimmy Carter; I regret to say that the idea of Iranian students before hostage crisis of US involvement in slowing down the democracy process in Iran and its backing of several politicaly hostile actions was proved after their movement. They published so many documents showing US involvement in coup-d'etat against Iranian prime minister Mosaddegh in favor of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi for example. I agree with you about neutrality of France government in those days. Wish US could do in that way.

I hope these descriptions would help me to answer your questions.

Please stay in touch.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Patchouli"

Caribbean

This etymology for Caribbean disagrees with everything else I have read on the subject. It needs a solid citation if it is to go into the article. Can you provide one? Thanks. Guettarda 13:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

CITE NEEDED TAGS

Today you placed THIRTEEN cite needed tags on Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi. All of them except one were on information which was already cited from good sources. I had to revert your change because the tags were inappropriate and placing so many tags is disprupting to the article. Have you read the guidelines WP:V and WP:CITE. You also placed a NPOV tag on the article without discussing on the talk page. Please write your ideas there. Please read WP:NPOV. THANKS and welcome to Wikpedia. Elizmr 23:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists

Salam.

I put controversial tag on this article because it is not written on the basis of technical and scholatic sources. Also it focused on one of the viewpoint among Shi'a clerics and it's very political. I put more informations in the talk page.--Sa.vakilian 04:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparantly you're more familiare with this issued than me. I put some comment in the talk page and I wanted to add some hadiths from Imam Khomeini's book. But unfortunatley I don't have enough time to correct and complete this articles on the basis of those comments. Whould you please do this?--Sa.vakilian 10:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ahmadinejad_in_Amir_Kabir_University.jpg

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Hi

I have a written an article on History of fundamentalist Islam in Iran based on a few sources (by Nasr, Soroush etc). I thought you might be interested in it. take care.Sina Kardar 16:05, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. That would be great. I am sure there are many rooms for improvements. I just made a framework for it. I think It is very important that we use Iranian terminology rather than western terminology to write an article about Iran. But it is very difficult for nonexperts. Thanks. Sina Kardar 15:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

On the same line: Religious Intellectualism in Iran Sina Kardar 17:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Karbala

Salam. Please look at talk page from to end of the page. We debate about the authenticity of the refrences. I need your support to use Abi Mikhnaf as the main source which has been narrated too many times by Sunnis (Tabari, Baladhura, Ibn Kasir) and Shi'a (Ibn A'tham and Mufid). Please read Battle of Karbala#Historiography of the battle of Karbala first.--Sa.vakilian 13:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Salam. Thank you for your great effort. I think you should add references to complete your attempt.--Sa.vakilian 15:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Eidetan mubarak

Salam. Man eide qadir ra be shoma tabrirk miguyam va omidvaram khoda tofiq dahad be Hazrat Ali kami shabih tar shavim , Hatta yek gam.--Sa.vakilian 10:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to Religious democracy (disambiguation)

Your recent edit to Religious democracy (disambiguation) (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Misplaced Pages articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 18:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, no. It's a disambiguation page, not an article. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong page. OK, I've reverted it, please add a link at Religious democracy (disambiguation) and put {{otheruses}} at the top of the page. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Done.  :) User:Zoe|(talk) 19:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Requests for comment

I think is better for you to go to WP:RfC to have other established users chime in — without fake users jumping in. That way, it won't be just the two of us haggling and at each other throats for days.--Patchouli 08:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

See my talk page.--Patchouli 09:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Soroush

See Talk:Islamist_democracy#Abdol-karim_Soroush.--Patchouli 13:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:your note

Salam! I suggest you don't waste your time there. Instead develop the subject here. I asked a few philosophers from US to help in writing the article. They answered positively. I am also planning to work extensively on atheist and secular intellectuals in Iran and their achievements.

PS: For some people, a good muslim is some one who does not believe in Islam what so ever or a dead muslim. The world is full of stupid fundamentalism/racism. Sina Kardar 14:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Mediation

Present your argument at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-01-11 Islamic democracy.--Patchouli 16:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I made some points atMisplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2007-01-11_Islamic_democracy#Discussion.--Patchouli 18:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Removing references most disconcerting

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages by deliberately introducing incorrect information, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages.--Patchouli 06:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. It was done by mistake. And please do not remove section Christian democracy from the article Religious democracy. Farhoudk 08:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Take it easy!

I found it virtually impossible to resist cracking up after reading "Please be advised that there where no insurance law during lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and this law is recently pupulated in civil societies."

What about intellectual property laws? Did the Prophet make his position clear on copyrights, patents, trademark, & trade secrets?--Patchouli 07:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Please translate the above terms to Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramean languages and then you will find the opinions of the Mohammad, Moses and Jesus, peace be upon them, about these terms. Farhoudk 08:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That was a rhetorical question because I wanted you to cheer up. Furthermore, I didn't expect you to remove references from Islamist democracy again .--Patchouli 08:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I did not removed the reference. Please be polite about prophets. Farhoudk 08:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You removed the reference again after this comment.--Patchouli 09:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I did not removed the reference but one time by mistake. But you have reverted the article 3 times or more and also changed its title from Religious democracy to Islamist democracy.

Farhoudk 11:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I restored references when you were blanking them. Also, I would appreciate it if you respond to Talk:Islamist_democracy#Abdol-karim_Soroush.--Patchouli 11:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Please check

This

Cheers, --Aminz 09:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you check if you have made more than 3 reverts within 24 hours. If so, please self revert, otherwise you may be blocked from editing for 24 hours. Please note that there is no deadline. --Aminz 09:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say that you did. I didn't actually check the diffs. But the admins are really tough on this. It doesn't matter you are right or not. I have been blocked for that for several times. It is always better to ask other editors to join in when the issue is controversial. Cheers, --Aminz 11:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

MedCab Case: Religious Democracy

I have just corrected your submission for MedCab Case: Religious Democracy. You had failed to follow the instructions and complete the template at the top of the page. However, the submission is now ready for mediation. If you wish to have me mediate your case, please edit the discussion section of the submission, state you want Alan.ca to mediate and sign your name. Alan.ca 07:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Please look at Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2007-01-12_Religious_Democracy#Compromise_offers.--Patchouli 21:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Then you would have to add Islamic State of Afghanistan & Islamic Republic of Iran, United Arab Emirates too.

Template:Theocracy is on types of theocracies.--Patchouli 22:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal

You compile a list of specific theocracies in history. Let me know on my talk page and I will personally create a template for it.--Patchouli 22:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

INVITATION: Two Articles in need of your attention

There are two entries at Misplaced Pages, which have falsely created -- they are Turco-Persian and Turko-Persian Tradition. Both entries are factitious. I have requested the entries to be deleted. My reasons are:

The term Turko-Persian Tradition (or Turco-Persian) does not exists academically and it is a factitious entry! Check the Encyclopaedia Iranica to confirm -- The correct name for that culture is the Persianate culture not the "Turko-Persian". Turkophones (mostly of mixed race and Persianized in culture) only spoke in Turkic dialects and were in the military. That is not enough participation in creating and forming the culture to deserve the name "Turko-Persian Tradition" – This is misinformation. All the elements in that area, which have to do with tradition and culture, were drawn from the Iranian culture and the Islamic faith, not much Turkic elements (like shamanism, yurts etc.) were incorporated in. That is what makes the name "Turko-Persian" an imaginary one and therefore the entry should be deleted.

Any contributions would greatly appreciated. Bā Sepās Surena 02:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

(If you have time) Please vote in the survey on this proposed move

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Valiyat-e_faqih_%28book_by_Khomeini%29#Survey

Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) → Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

Thanks

--Leroy65X 19:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Class of History of Karbala

Salam. How are you.

Rasool Jafarian will teach "History of battle of Karbala" in Tehran university, literature faculty, history group in the next term Insha Allah.--Sa.vakilian 16:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

MedCab Case

Due to no responce on the case, I believe the case has gone stale. If you wish to keep it open, please comment within 14 days. Somitho 18:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Islam in Iran

What's your idea about Islam in Iran.--Sa.vakilian 07:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Definition of Fundamentalism

Salam. Please us your idea about this issue.Talk:History of fundamentalist Islam in Iran#Definition--Sa.vakilian 15:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Guardian Council

Salaam. At the Guardian Council page, there is a section called "Vicious Circle" that is strongly POV and doesn't have any citations. I suspect it is OR as well. Since we are supposed to remove baseless POV from WP, I removed it, but Patchouli reverted, eventually saying that you were the source of the section. I am asking you why it should stay. In order for it to stay, it needs to have citations, and if these are citations to editorials, the editorials need to have authors of significance. If an editorial is used, a statement like "So-and-so has said ..." or another form to show that this is a editorial that is being mentioned. Also, a variety of sources cannot be combined to synthesize a particular viewpoint, in this case that the Guardian Council is part of a "Vicious Circle", unless all of the sources themselves argue a vicious circle. Otherwise it is OR. In any case, you will need actual sources before their appropriateness can be assessed. Please respond to me on this matter so that the article improvement can begin. Thanks. The Behnam 15:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Everybody see: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Guardian_Council#Vicious_Circle Farhoudk 19:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Use of PBUH in Battle of Karbala

Greetings, Farhoudk. My edits to the Battle of Karbala article were certainly not intended as impoliteness. In two of the phrases I edited, the possessive form should have been used, but wasn't. The resulting phrases (for example, "the Muhammad (PBUH) family" instead of simply "Muhammad's family") were less clear and easy to understand, not to mention being grammatically incorrect. When editing those two phrases, I also went through and removed all other PBUH's in accordance with Misplaced Pages's policy on Islamic honorifics. Misplaced Pages is a secular encyclopedia, and should be written in a manner that is acceptable to all English-speaking people (for the English Misplaced Pages, that is), regardless of their religion. Honorifics represent the point of view of one particular religion. Having said that, I might have included a more descriptive edit summary, and I could have brought it up on the talk page of the article. I hope you don't feel I was being uncivil. In any case, thank you for reminding me of the civility policy; we should all strive to be civil at all times. --DavidConrad 14:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Iranian revolution

Salam. Chetori shoma? Farda class Jafarian 8-10 Sobh bargozar mishe. Daneshkade Adabiat, gruh Tarikh. Tabaqe 3.

I'll look at that article as soon as possible. But please translate Imam's commandment for Bazargan. --Sa.vakilian 19:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use image

Hi, re. the image at Battle of Karbala: A reproduction of a copyrighted painting can be used under the fair-use rationale of {art} only "for critical commentary on the work in question, the artistic genre or technique of the work of art or the school to which the artist belongs" (see Template:Art). That is, you could use it in, for instance, an article about "popular Persian painting" or whatever. But not in an article to illustrate the battle. See Misplaced Pages:Fair use, especially the subsection about "Counterexamples". Number 4 in the list is directly comparable to this case: "A work of art, not so famous as to be iconic, whose theme happens to be the Spanish Civil War, to illustrate an article on the war" is not "fair use". Thanks for your understanding, Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it's a messy business. Difficult to understand and difficult to argue over, because there are really no hard and fast rules. But the crucial thing is, I believe, that you can argue "fair use" only if the picture itself is the object of the article. If you had a passage in the article explicitly discussing how the battle is reflected in popular art and what stylistic means have been used by artists to express how they see the battle... that sort of thing. Like it is in fact done in the article cited as an example: Bombing of Guernica#Symbolic importance. And that passage would have to be sourced too, so in order to talk about a picture as "iconic" you'd need reliable sources talking about that painting and about how it is a particularly noteworthy specimen of how the battle is reflected in Persian culture - etc. etc. As it was now, the image was used simply as a piece of decoration.

I've tried to put together a few thoughts about how I personally see "fair use" at User:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Fair use. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Community ban

There's a discussion about "community ban" of Patchuli. I know you have participated with him in editing. Please come and write your idea:--Sa.vakilian 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

big long quote in Iranian Revolution

Sa.vakilian went to some trouble to translate a long quote by khomeini ("a commandment") for the Iranian Revolution article but it is rather long and may not be following wikipedia form. We created a quotation section at the end that I'm thinking might suit it better. Please weigh in with an opinion at (Any other ideas on how to improve Iranian Revolution would be welcome too.) Thanks --Leroy65X 17:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Aramesh Doustdar

Please see Aramesh Doustdar. Take care. Sina Kardar 16:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Summaries

--Mel Etitis (Talk) 19:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand. You say that you know about edit summaries; their use is a courtesy to other editors, and requested by Misplaced Pages — why do you never use one? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 19:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. I did not notice it before. I will use it from now on. thanks. Farhoudk 06:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Changing talk page

Why are you changing the old conversations on the Guardian Council talk page? It doesn't seem necessary to make these changes at all. The Behnam 05:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It is usefull as reference. Farhoudk 05:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't see what is useful as a reference about deleting parts of the conversation. It isn't like it was trolling or something inappropriate, really just an introduction to the situation. It should probably be preserved just to keep a record of the full conversation. The Behnam 05:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes. To keep a record of the full conversation. Farhoudk 05:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You changed the order of the conversation. . Or so it appears. Why? The Behnam 05:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

No. Why? Farhoudk 05:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You moved a paragraph to the bottom. I don't see the necessity of these changes so I'm probably going to revert. If people want to refer to it, they can refer to it in its original form. The Behnam 05:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

No, I did not. deleting the contents of talk page is not a good idea. Farhoudk 05:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You inserted something above my post. If you are introducing something new put it in an appropriate area, such as at the bottom of a section or in a new section at the bottom of the page. I don't understand your motivation to make these changes. The Behnam 05:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

OK. Thanks.

A kind of vicious circle can be understood from Iranian constitution with respect to authorities of the Supreme Leader, the Assembly of Experts and the Guardian Council.

• First according to article No. 111 of the constitution Whenever the Leader becomes incapable, recognized by Assembly of Experts, of fulfilling his constitutional duties he will be dismissed by them.
• Second according to article No. 91 of the constitution the six cleric members of the Guardian Council are selected by the Supreme Leader and six jurists nominated by the Head of the Judicial Power and approved by Majlis.
• Third According to article No. 110 of the constitution, one of duties and authorities of the Supreme Leader is appointment, dismissal, and resignation of the Head of the Judicial Power.
• Fourth according to article No. 99 of the constitution the Guardian Council has the responsibility of supervising the elections of the Assembly of Experts, which based on this authority it issues a permission for the candidates to run for election or rejects them.

Therefore rejection by Guardian Council of the candidates from rival parties is possible in the campaign for the Assembly of Experts. This will cause the chairs for the Supreme Leader, the Guardian Council and the Assemply of Experts remain in the hands of specified party/parties. It is in violatation with principles of Political Equality between all citizens of a democratic country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Guardian_Council&diff=106034439&oldid=106033443

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AGuardian_Council&diff=114238938&oldid=114235684

Farhoudk 05:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it. Are you asking me to put that somewhere appropriate for you? The Behnam 05:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

No. I need to have a record of my previous works. Farhoudk 05:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

That's fine, just don't manipulate other parts of the page conversation. Thanks. The Behnam 05:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair Use image on User page

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AfD nomination of Religious democracy

I've nominated Religious democracy, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that Religious democracy satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and the Misplaced Pages deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Religious democracy 2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Religious democracy during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. - David Oberst 08:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam. Sale no mobarak. Please correct your vote in that AfD and please tell us your idea in this one. God bless you.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 16:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Be nazare man esm maqale eshtebah ast. Tarif Dr Sorush moadel Democracy Dindaran(Devout Democracy) mishe. Democracy Dini (Religious Democracy) be manaye haqe eamale nazare maraje mazhabi va vetoye araye zedde dini ast.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Please pay attention: 

• Do not delete - First please take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2007-01-12_Religious_Democracy and then http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Patchouli Farhoudk 10:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. If you support retaining the article, you need to issue a KEEP vote. The non-affirmative statement — Do not delete — is remark that leaves much to be desired, especially during AfD discussions. Aarktica 13:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply per AfD discussion.

You're welcome. I hope that my comment on Religious democracy was helpful to you. --Aarktica 21:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Translation help

Hi, I was wondering if you could translate this for me, since you speak Farsi. Your help is appreciated!: In režime išqâlgare qods bâyad az safhehye ruzgâr mahv šavad. -- thanks--Matt57 23:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Kirbytime/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad. Of course, I wasn't notified of this. --Ķĩřβȳ♥♥♥ŤįɱéØ 00:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Contemporary history of Iran

Do you agree on making a wikiproject or at least a task force (like this)about Contemporary history of Iran which includes issues science 1900.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 06:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Please write your idea in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Iran#Contemporary_history_of_Iran--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 06:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Tashrif biavarid khoshhal mishavim

قرار است در نخستین جشنواره و نمایشگاه ملی رسانه های دیجیتال کارگاه «ویکی نویسی» برگزار گردد. با پیشنهادات و کمک های خود پروژه ای را که بدین منظور در ویکی پدیای فارسی طراحی شده پربار نمایید. با تشکر

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sa.vakilian (talk • contribs) 03:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

New article you might find interesting

Political thought and legacy of Khomeini --Leroy65X 17:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Eid Mubarak

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Question about Amir al-Mu'minin

Hello. I cannot register an account (because I rarely use Misplaced Pages as it is), but I am writing a book on Islamic Caliphates, and I believe "WikiProject Islam" would be able to help, so I am asking you and others who has put their name on the "Expert Wikipedians in Islamic issues" list who might be able to help. I am about the title "Amir al-Mu'minin" which many Caliphs claim and which is the standard Arab-style Caliphate title. What I want to know is: Do everyone who uses the title "Amir al-Mu'minin", by extension, claim they are also the Caliph? So would the Morroco Sultan, Muhhamed Omar (leader of the Taliban), and the Sokoto Sultan, all implictly claiming the title of "Caliph" by claiming the title "Commander of the Believers"?

If you can help me with this question, that would be really helpful.--72.208.76.124 (talk) 01:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Child Marriage

Does this come under tendentious editing. Using Colin Turners book as a source (the same source for the statement on child marriages and the same page as well) , Discussion is taking place here Only one statement of Colin Turner is being presented and the other is being conveniently ignored leading to change in meaning . Asking question on talk page because this user is a member of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Islam/Expert Wikipedians in Islamic issues --Gnosisquest (talk) 02:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

No need now thanks.--Gnosisquest (talk) 18:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Misplaced Pages Partnership - We need you!

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Azerbaijani help needed

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Mount Damavand

Hi, you claim that Mount Damavand is 5671 metres based on your own measurement, but you supply no information about that measurement. When and how did you measure Mount Damavand? Have you published it on the web? See (August 14). The author has measured hundreds of mountains using GPS and his results have been widely accepted. He writes: We decided to take a walk around the entire crater, visit this opposite point and measure it carefully. The highest rock on the first (and likely official) summit had measured 5622 meter after a long period of sampling. The point across is located at N35:57.318, E052:06.553, and after 300 samples, the best average value read 5623 meter. From this viewpoint, we had a good view back across the crater, from left to the first high point, then further right along the rim towards the point where we were sitting. This difference is too small to decide, however, it is clear (see also the pictures) that these two points along the crater rim are indeed very similar in height. Again, with the assumption that the GPS is (consistently, see below) about 10 meter too high, this strongly supports an official height of Damavand at 5610 meter. In any event, all references to an elevation of 5671 meter should be changed, this is absolutely wrong. Viewfinder (talk) 19:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I have measured the height of Damavand at west side of the crater and it was well above 5610 meters, in opposition to what is claimed by some sites. As you can see, the author you mentioned has failed to describe the orientation of the highest point at the summit and using words such as left and right are not technical. It is not useful to refer to my measurement or others due to lack of sufficient accuracy. For example, GPS has three times less accuracy in measuring altitude than measuring Lat and Long. This is why I did not mention any altitude for Damavand based on my measurements. The best reference would be NASA observatory data http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=5267 which mentions 5670 meters for Damavand. All the best 19:39, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The author of the 2007 survey is an experienced GPS user who has measured many mountains. He measured it in clear conditions, and took measurements on both sides of the crater. Any possibility that he missed the highest point can be ruled out. You have still not told us when and how you measured Damavand or given any reading. The author of the 2005 NASA article did nothing more than copy the elevation from an older source. Viewfinder (talk) 20:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I have copied this thread to the Damavand talk page, where it belongs. Viewfinder (talk) 20:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Nowadays you can find so many experienced GPS user around the globe, thanks to the technology provided by even cell phone manufacturers! As you may know there exist even more accurate GPS/GLONASS devices inside iPhone or Galaxy. It is not useful to rely on our hand held GPS and leave NASA data. Aerial and space imagary has much more accurate data years before invention of GPS, GLONASS, LORAN-C, TACAN etc. Once again, I am just mentioning reliable data provided by well known organizations responsible for such tasks. Farhoudk (talk) 20:22, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

You still supply no information about when and how you measured Damavand. Viewfinder (talk) 20:25, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

==Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion==

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Mount Damavand. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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Thank you for your notice. Farhoudk (talk) 06:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I have just modified the altitude of Damavand to 5609 based on recent gravimetry by Iranian authorities on Damavand. Thank you all. Farhoudk (talk) 15:23, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

When disputes are settled, we are all winners. Cheers. On a similar issue, I have been checking out the highest point of Saudi Arabia, and I found some good information at List_of_mountains_in_Saudi_Arabia which claims 3015 metres for Jabal Sawda. The claim, which is consistent with my sources, is supported by sources in the List_of_mountains_in_Saudi_Arabia#References references section, but these are not verifiable by anyone unable to read Arabic. According to your user page, you have some knowledge of Arabic, so perhaps you can translate one of the passages that make the 3015 claim. Viewfinder (talk) 15:36, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

How are you? Nice to talk to you again. Unfortunately i am currently busy with other article in https://fa.wikipedia.org/%D9%82%D8%B2%D9%84%E2%80%8C%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%B2%D9%86 and cannot participate right now. Farhoudk (talk) 17:04, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

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Wonderful

Salam Alaykum.

Jenab Kazemi, I am extremely delighted that you are active yet. Today, I returned to wikipedia and found that most of my friends have left here. Do you remember our cooperation to improve the articles.--Seyyed(t-c) 15:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. Yes, I am still alive. :) Yes I remember you and am very happy to hear from you. My last article is List of Iranian four-thousanders. Take care. Farhoudk (talk) 09:51, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Generation time

Hello,

I have reverted your edit on the Generation time article: saying that the generation time "is assumed" to be 25 years makes it sound like we do not really know what it is and so "we" (but who exactly by the way?) assume it to be 25 years. But this is misleading: (1) distribution of various measures of generation time have been estimated in many populations (2) the generation time differs between different populations and can be quite different from 25 years.

Moreover, the reference given (though welcome! =) ) was not very appropriate in my opinion: it redirected to an article about the mutation rate, that asserted that "the generation time is assumed to be 25 years" simply by referring to... Another article about the mutation rate! What is needed is some large-scale demographic study which uses raw data to estimate the distribution of generation time in several populations. I will try to find one such reference.

Best, Malparti (talk) 14:44, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks. I just wanted to help improve the article a little bit. You could keep the article as it was and modify it after finding better reference.

Farhoudk (talk) 18:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

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Setad

Left a message for you at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Setad --BoogaLouie (talk) 01:32, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

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1. Khomeini fatwa 'led to killing of 30,000 in Iran' The Daily Telegraph
2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/iran_power/html/guardian_council.stm
3. Article No.111 http://mellat.majlis.ir/archive/CONSTITUTION/ENGLISH.HTM
4. Article No.91 http://mellat.majlis.ir/archive/CONSTITUTION/ENGLISH.HTM
5. Article No.110 http://mellat.majlis.ir/archive/CONSTITUTION/ENGLISH.HTM
6. Article No.99 http://mellat.majlis.ir/archive/CONSTITUTION/ENGLISH.HTM