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Revision as of 00:57, 10 November 2006 editIsonomia (talk | contribs)2,777 edits →[]← Previous edit Latest revision as of 20:53, 23 April 2022 edit undoMalnadachBot (talk | contribs)11,637,095 editsm Fixed Lint errors. (Task 12)Tag: AWB 
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
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Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of ]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was '''delete'''. --]<sup>]</sup> 22:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
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{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|Category}}
:{{la|Voden inscription}} :{{la|Voden inscription}}
Unsourced nonsense based on nationalistic sites such as: ] 11:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC) Unsourced nonsense based on nationalistic sites such as: ] 11:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
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*Conditional '''Keep''' (and cleanup) if verification at least from reliable press sources can be found while this AfD is running. By verification, I mean verifying that it exists and that it was analysed by experts. If it's a forgery, it's still an interesting one and may deserve an article. ] ] *Conditional '''Keep''' (and cleanup) if verification at least from reliable press sources can be found while this AfD is running. By verification, I mean verifying that it exists and that it was analysed by experts. If it's a forgery, it's still an interesting one and may deserve an article. ] ]
**'''Comment''' I will withdraw nomination when such sources are included, and when the forgery issue becomes clear in the text. In fact, if these two conditions are met, and someone else tries to AfD this, I'll vote 'strong keep'. ] 13:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC) **'''Comment''' I will withdraw nomination when such sources are included, and when the forgery issue becomes clear in the text. In fact, if these two conditions are met, and someone else tries to AfD this, I'll vote 'strong keep'. ] 13:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as unverifiable per Future perfect and '''Wikipeida is not a soapbox.''' If verfication of actual existence, keep without propaganda-esque language and tone.] 13:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC) *'''Delete''' as unverifiable per Future perfect and '''Wikipeida is not a soapbox.''' If verfication of actual existence, keep without propaganda-esque language and tone.] 13:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep and rewrite''' as notable Belgian nationalist hoax. :-) -] 15:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC) *'''Keep and rewrite''' as notable Belgian nationalist hoax. :-) -] 15:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' It was an interesting article. I couldn't tell from the article why it might be considered a hoax.--] 16:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC) *'''Keep''' It was an interesting article. I couldn't tell from the article why it might be considered a hoax.--] 16:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
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* '''Delete''' unless/until authenticity confirmed (at least to over 50%) and material similar to ]'s is included to allow non-experts to know why '''''this''''' inscription is so critical. --- ] 08:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC) * '''Delete''' unless/until authenticity confirmed (at least to over 50%) and material similar to ]'s is included to allow non-experts to know why '''''this''''' inscription is so critical. --- ] 08:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
:*<s>'''Keep'''</s> until Greek authorities release confiscated inscription free to publicity for authenticity test performed by indepedent foreign experts.Why Greek ministry of culture keep it in secrecy for nine years? It's obvious that some guys in Balkans favour the hoax aspect for ever avoiding archaelogical confirmation.] 22.41, November,8 2006 (UTC) <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 22:00, November 8, 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small> - ''who also corrected the comment of "Bost" above '' :*<s>'''Keep'''</s> until Greek authorities release confiscated inscription free to publicity for authenticity test performed by indepedent foreign experts.Why Greek ministry of culture keep it in secrecy for nine years? It's obvious that some guys in Balkans favour the hoax aspect for ever avoiding archaelogical confirmation.] 22.41, November,8 2006 (UTC) <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 22:00, November 8, 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small> - ''who also corrected the comment of "Bost" above ''
** '''Comment:''' Unsigned votes above are obviously related. Also, the main contributor of the article appears under the name ] which directly relates to the name in the e-mail address of the author of such sites ( below)! One more IP ({{vandal|87.202.166.39}} is making alterations to the two stricken votes. ] 22:56, 9 November 2006 (UTC) ** '''Comment:''' Unsigned votes above are obviously related. Also, the main contributor of the article appears under the name ] which directly relates to the name in the e-mail address of the author of such sites ( below)! One more IP ({{vandal|87.202.166.39}} is making alterations to the two stricken votes (,). And another one: {{vandal|87.203.84.243}} () ] 12:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
***'''Comment''': Blocked the 87.202 address for vote-tampering here and for an unrelated 3RR offense. Any more IPs of those ranges turning up here with similar edits during the next 24 hours should be reverted on sight and reported. ] ] 13:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - While the argument is potentially interesting as that of a 19th century forgery, unfortunately no decent source appears to treat the subject, judging by the search I made on the web.--] 13:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - this is a notable hoax. I couldn't find much references about it, but I couldn't for ] either. It appears that texts about various inscriptions aren't too popular on the Internet, but that doesn't make them non-notable. ] 15:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:*<s>'''Keep strongly'''</s> -Inscription's striking importance caused the forgery theory propagated by a Bulgarian historian who never saw this item. Who else can persuasivelly align to this? No one until Greek authorities deliver this incarcerated item free to international academic community for authentification. Every inscription is considered primary source of history and prevail to posterior ones-- <s>]</s> 08:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 20:53, 23 April 2022

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. --Sam Blanning 22:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Voden inscription

Voden inscription (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Unsourced nonsense based on nationalistic sites such as: •NikoSilver• 11:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Can I please ask people to reconsider their votes. I don't think there's been a single archaeological find that someone hasn't considered a fake. Moreover some notable fakes are in themselves very important because they are very good indicators of cultural values such as the jesus box (the osary of the brother of jesus I think).
I spend a lot of time looking at inscriptions that may or may not be fakes and if all of them got deleted I'd have nothing to work on! I think this web site gives the other side of the coin: without a great deal of research I can't verify whether the actual item is genuine, but what is very clear is that an object exists and that this is a real subject. Clearly it must be reported in a neutral way - and that is a real concern with the article (especially given recent posts) but not a reason (as yet to delete)--Mike 00:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Is there an inscription called the "voden inscription" (there's a picture)? If there is whether or not it is genuine, the next question is whether it is notable, if it has articles written about it then it prossibly is.
  1. The Wiki-article is not a hoax, the inscription may be, but the Wiki-article isn't!
  2. It isn't unverifiable - there's a picture, the wiki-article is verificable, it is the item that is difficult to verify and as far as I'm aware Misplaced Pages doesn't have the power to delete it! (See WP:GOD)
  3. So long as the article properly tags that some consider it a fake, it will not damage Misplaced Pages's reputation.
The only rational I can see for deleting is that it is not notable enough - and the only comment on that seems to say it is!--Mike 20:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps you will find Misplaced Pages:Verifiability pertenent to this. HighInBC 20:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete I found just one press clipping online that seems to verify that this item exists and was taken to Greece over objections from the Bulgarian curator of a museum, but no information about the allegations of forgery, claims of historical significance, etc. Since the most recent events regarding this item happened in 1997, someone may have to go to the library to find good sources. It appears that most of the websites that mention this item for nationalistic purposes have relied on very sketchy sources and when you follow their references you find only a couple of tripod pages which no longer exist. None of them seem to have actually seen the two newspaper articles which they mention in their websites. Also I see a red flag when the creator of this article claims to have made the photograph provided with the article. Really? Who is this person who claims to have personally been present with the item in question, which has been kept under lock and key by government authorities for nine years? I don't even feel confident that "Voden inscription" is the appropriate name for this item, so I can't even support the idea of making this a stub. Ecyclopedic content must be verifiable. This is not. Delete per HighInBC OfficeGirl 20:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as per nomination. Xdenizen 20:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep undoubtelly item exists, regarding it's authenticity seek opinion from experts having nutreal point of view excluding state archaelogists-inscriptionists from Greece, Bulgaria (as Dr Bozhidar Dimitrov) and Republic of Macedonia.If genuine reveals unkown historical facts of great impact in Balkan history as: 1)Tsar Samuel was crowned by pope Gregory V before 989 A.D.and not in 997 after Tsar Roman of Bulgaria's death, as Dr. Dimitrov holds, 2) His official title was Tsar of Bulgars and Romans, 3)In 10th c. Byzantine capital was considered residence of Great Evil (Satan), 4)Samuel's state was extending from Serbia to whole Greece,5)On 989 AD Voden, present day Edessa, was the Bulgarian capital, 6)Verifies Bogomils movement participation in Samuel's Empire via dark historic figures as Jeremiah from Melnik probably founder of Bogomilism and Gabriel the Bulgarian bishop of Moglen or Muglen province and ,7)Reveals that Tarnovo is Samuel's birthplace, 8)Confirms 18th c. sources that Samuel's father was Shishman Han of Tarnovo (present day Great Tarnovo) and 9)Clarifies Bulgarian character of Samuel's state. Compare Bitola inscription. Old Slavonic inscriptions of 10th - 12th c. are extremely rare, fewer than 10. Bost 09.33, 8 November 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.75.58.248 (talk • contribs) 07:35, November 8, 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep until Greek authorities release confiscated inscription free to publicity for authenticity test performed by indepedent foreign experts.Why Greek ministry of culture keep it in secrecy for nine years? It's obvious that some guys in Balkans favour the hoax aspect for ever avoiding archaelogical confirmation.Tamin 22.41, November,8 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.75.11.51 (talk • contribs) 22:00, November 8, 2006 (UTC) - who also corrected the comment of "Bost" above
  • Keep strongly -Inscription's striking importance caused the forgery theory propagated by a Bulgarian historian who never saw this item. Who else can persuasivelly align to this? No one until Greek authorities deliver this incarcerated item free to international academic community for authentification. Every inscription is considered primary source of history and prevail to posterior ones-- Bost 08:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.116.222 (talk • contribs)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.