Misplaced Pages

• Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
• New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

• Assume good faith
• Be polite and avoid personal attacks
• Be welcoming to newcomers
• Seek dispute resolution if needed

• Neutral point of view
• No original research
• Verifiability

Asia High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Asia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject AsiaTemplate:WikiProject AsiaAsia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

China High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Korea High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Indonesia High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indonesia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IndonesiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndonesiaTemplate:WikiProject IndonesiaIndonesia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Japan High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 21:23, December 26, 2024 (JST, Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Japan to do list: edit history watch purge Peer review: None A-class review: None Featured content candidates –  Articles: None Pictures: None Lists: None Good article nominations: Vinland Saga (TV series), Godzilla Minus One Add requested images to articles that need them. Pages for Deletion: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions. Improve and expand Japan-related stubs. Create some requested articles. Help translate an article from the Japanese Misplaced Pages into English. Assess unassessed articles

Tambayan Philippines High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tambayan Philippines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the Philippines on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tambayan PhilippinesWikipedia:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesTemplate:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesPhilippine-related High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

	Vietnam High‑importance
This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Feminism Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Feminism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Feminism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FeminismWikipedia:WikiProject FeminismTemplate:WikiProject FeminismFeminism Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Gender studies Mid‑importance

This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. To-do list: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : see Unassessed Gender studies articles and Unknown-importance Gender studies articles Cleanup : edit to see Collaborate : see /Collaboration Copyedit : edit to see Deletion sorting : see /Sexuality and gender Expand : edit to see Infobox : see Gender studies articles needing infoboxes Merge : edit to see Notability : edit to see NPOV : edit to see Orphans : Brannon Masculinity Scale · Holy Virility · Media and gender · Michael Kaufman (author) · Women's education in Saudi Arabia Photo : see Misplaced Pages requested photographs of gender studies Split : History of feminism Stubs : see Gender studies stubs Translate : see /translation Update : edit to see Verify : Riot grrrl Needs attention : see Gender studies articles needing attention

Military history: Asian / Chinese / Japanese / Korean / Southeast Asia / World War II

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces: /  Asian military history task force Chinese military history task force Japanese military history task force Korean military history task force Southeast Asian military history task force World War II task force

{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|class=B|organizedcrime=yes|organizedcrime-imp=Mid}}

Sexology and sexuality: Sex work Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Sex work task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Women's History High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

	Women
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women

1. March 2004 – March 2007
2. March 2007 – April 2007
3. April 2007 – July 2007
4. July 2007 – December 2008
5. January 2009 – December 2012
6. December 2012 – June 2014
7. March 2014 – January 2017
8. February 2017 –

@RfC's attempt to aggregate opinions for rewriting the lead sentence in "Comfort women" was inappropriate. The reason is that this subject involves political views. The U.S. Congress has passed U. Res. 121, and the majority of Americans believes that comfort women were sex slaves. However, the controversy over the comfort women issue, i.e., "Were comfort women sex slaves or licensed prostitutes?" continues today in the academic community.

Through Talk, I learned that English readers do not have information on primary sources on the comfort women issue, namely the licensed prostitution system, military comfort station regulations, and related police records. Therefore, I have added Draft:Licensed Prostitution System in Korea under the Japanese Empire and military police data to the net.The claim that "comfort women were licensed prostitutes" has already been mentioned in Talk: Suggested changes to the first paragraph, but once again its contents are summarized below.

Basic Knowledge

The Japanese Empire was a state ruled by law

Laws were enacted separately for mainland Japan, Korean Peninsula and Taiwan, taking into account differences in social customs in each region, and Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese were equal under the law.

Establishment of licensed prostitution system

The Licensed prostitution system was established in 1900 in mainland Japan for the purpose of preventing the transmission of venereal diseases (STD) and maintaining social morals. This system was introduced in Taiwan in 1906 and in Korea in 1916, and established also in both society. The permit conditions for licensed prostitution required the will of the person wishing to work, written consent from the parent, and a copy of the contract with the employer. The minimum age required to be licensed was 18 in Japan, 17 in Korea, and 16 in Taiwan. Once they became licensed prostitutes, they were required to undergo periodic STD examinations and their places of working were restricted. Police control data on licensed prostitution and criminal law violations in Korea are heled in the Annual report of the Governor-General of Korea.

Involvement in the establishment and operation of comfort stations by the Japanese military

For the Japanese military, preventing STD among soldiers on the battlefield was a serious issue. For this reason, the Japanese military designated and used private brothels outside the Empire of Japan, which accepted regular STD examinations. After 1938, as the front expanded, the Japanese military established relevant regulations under domestic law and was involved in the establishment and operation of comfort stations (licensed brothels for Japanese military personnel (soldiers and civilian employees) established in battlefields and occupied territories). However, the age of Japanese comfort women was set at 21, not the legal age of 18, because that in 1927, the Japanese Empire (excluding Korea and Taiwan) had signed an international treaty banning prostitution for those under the age of 21. With the start of the Pacific War, local women in Southeast Asian countries were also employed as comfort women under similar military regulations. Documents on military regulations regarding comfort stations and violations of these regulations by military personnel are heled in the Asian Women's Fund archives.

Occurrence and history of the comfort women issue

In August 1991, a Korean, Kim Hak-soon, came forward as a former comfort woman, and In December 1991, three Korean former comfort women, including Kim Hak-soon, along with 32 Korean former military personnel, filed a lawsuit with the Tokyo District Court demanding 20 million yen ($148 thousand) per person in compensation from the Japanese government.

In March 1993, Chief Cabinet Secretary Kono acknowledged that the Japanese military had been involved in the establishment and operation of comfort stations, and based on interviews with 18 Korean former comfort women, forced prostitution against their will, and apologized. Details of the interview have not been made public. He stated that "excluding those from Japan, those from the Korean Peninsula accounted for a large part,"

In June 1995, the Japanese government established the Asian Women's Fund (AWF) to atone for its moral responsibility toward former comfort women, and paid compensations to the former comfort women whom came out, accompanied by an apology from the Prime Minister. However, most of Kotean former comfort women refused to accept the compensations due to objections from the Korean council, an NGO seeking state responsibility.

In January 1996, R. Coomaraswmy, Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights, based on documentary evidence from G. Hicks' book, Seiji Yoshida's book and Japanese military comfort station regulations, and corroborated by the testimony of former Korean comfort women, reported that "approximately 200,000 former Korean comfort women were forcibly or deceptively taken to Japanese military comfort stations where they were forced to provide sexual services against their will and subjected to daily physical violence. The comfort women were sex slaves, and comfort stations were sex slaves organizations".

In April 2007, the Interagency Working Group submitted its final report to the U.S. Congress, stating that it found "no new material on the violation of women's human rights by the Japanese military". In July 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res.121, which called on the Japanese government to "acknowledge and officially apologize for the historical facts of the forced sexual enslavement of young women in its colonies and occupied Asian territories". However, the basis for this is questionable.

In March 2015, 19 Japanese historians issued a statement calling for the correction of eight factual errors in the McGraw-Hill Textbook (2011). In response, U.S. historians criticized them as historical revisionists and refused to correct the textbook.

In February 2021, an uproar erupted over the retraction of J. Mark Ramsayer's paper,"Contracting for Sex in the Pacific War”.

In August 2022, Tetsuo Arima and J. Mark Ramseyer published a paper refuting the rationale for the retraction request.

Points of Controversy

The points of controversy between sex slaves or licensed prostitutes are as follows. Both cite the Kono Statement, military regulations and No. 49 as documentary evidence for their respective claims.

Authenticity of lead sentence

Absence of explanation of basic information

1. Explanation of "comfort station" is missing. A "comfort station" is a licensed brothel under domestic law for Japanese military personnel (of which Koreans were a part) established in the battlefield and occupied territory.

2. It was after 1938 that the Japanese military became involved in the establishment and operation of comfort stations.

Ignoring and misquoting facts

1. Only 240 have been certified by the South Korean government, in contrast to claims that approximately 200,000 Korean women were sexually enslaved. The basis for this certification has not yet been made public.

2. The Kono Statement states that "the majority of comfort women were Japanese. However, H.Res. 121 misquotes the Kono Statement and claims that "A large part" of the comfort women were Korean.

Lack of logic

1. Koreans were also members of the Japanese military. There was no reason for the Japanese military to be violent toward Korean comfort women who were their own citizens.

2 Comfort women were valuable human resources for the Japanese military as nurses, and were in a position to protect them. Military regulations stipulated monthly confirmation of wage payments to comfort women by operators of comfort stations, and strictly prohibit violence against operators and comfort women by military personnel. Violators were punished.

3. The content of the former comfort women's testimony violates all domestic laws and military regulations. The Japanese Empire was a country ruled by law, and law violators could never be in the majority. Police and military police crackdown records support this.

Unsubstantiated citation of sources and inappropriate citation

: Misquotation: only explaining violation cases through interviews with comfort women. The primary source for the claim of “sexual slavery” is the UN report by Coomaraswamy (1996).

: Unreliable paper that does not cite primary sources

: Unclear which references are being cited

: Should cite a dictionary

: Unsubstantiated paper

: Should cite primary sources

: Inaccurate article: according to a Dutch government survey, there may have been between 2 00and 300 Dutch comfort women, about 65 of whom were most certainly forced into prostitution: comfort station regulations are open to the public.

to : Should cite primary sources: these were a personal opinions of speaker or authors

English is now an international language. Therefore, articles in the English version are particularly required to be neutral and credible. As mentioned above, this article undermines neutrality and credibility. Will Binksternet continue to exclude posts like the above? Eyagi (talk) 05:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not base content on a contributor's personal analysis of primary sources. Or, except to a very limited extent, to the sources themselves. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:35, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

For WP policy on presenting cite-supported viewpoints differing from views asserted here as supported by those cited sources you mention, see WP:DUE. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:26, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

In general, I think you are right. This article is special, and the core of the debate is whether the testimony of the former comfort women is true or not. As you can see from 300 references cited in the main text, many people are disseminating various information. I used "primary sources" to mean the basis for a claim. Many of the references cited overlap in content. Eyagi (talk) 08:10, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Talk is a discussion page for improving the article. For some reason, the discussion on "Verification of the authenticity of the lead sentence" was closed. At the same time, part of H.Res.121's Controversy article was deleted by Aoidh without discussion. I have asked for an explanation as to why, but have yet to receive a response. The deletion without discussion violates wikipedia's deletion policy.

WP:LEAD stipulates that the lead sentence shall “summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies, and according to reliable, published sources”. The current article excludes the claims of licensed prostitutes, misquotes sources and cites unreliable sources as noted in "Verification of the authenticity of the lead sentence". This lead is clearly violates WP:LEAD. The editor, Binksternet, should openly acknowledge this fact and allow the article to be revised.

Eyagi (talk) 02:35, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

I closed it because it was a lengthy attack on the veracity of sources, and an attempt at a novel synthesis based on your personal analysis, carried on at great length. Other editors are under no obligation to agree with you, and your editing has every appearance of POV-pushing. I remind you again of the arbitration sanctions that are applicable to editors whose behavior disrupts gender-related topics or related discussions. . Acroterion (talk) 02:49, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

I understand your point. My explanation was long because we were not able to share information. Please answer this talk of mine. Eyagi (talk) 05:32, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

You are asking for primary sources to be accepted into the article, asking for us to accept your interpretation of primary sources. This is the same request you have made many times. It will never happen because it is a violation of WP:No original research, a hard policy. Binksternet (talk) 06:11, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm just stating facts based on publicly available materials. Please specify which parts are WP:OR

You explained that you excluded the licensed prostitutes claim from the article because there are very few licensed prostitutes. I pointed out that the fact is that licensed prostitutes are the majority. Do you accept this fact? If you do not accept, please explain the basis for this in detail.

You also argued that the primary source was a very limited, and introduced Chunghee Sarah Soh's book as a secondary source for the sexual slavery claim. I countered that there were plenty of primary sources and introduced the materials specifically. It is well known that C. Sarah Soh's book criticizes the sexual slavery claim. Eyagi (talk) 00:34, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

You insist that you have the authority to analyze primary sources and make sweeping conclusions. I insist that you are violating the hard policy of WP:No original research. Guess which one of us is correctly following Misplaced Pages's rules? Binksternet (talk) 00:47, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Again, please point out specifically which part falls under Misplaced Pages:No original research. Otherwise, the discussion will not proceed. Eyagi (talk) 07:26, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

I think you and Aoidh are also editors. Please let me know your opinions on my point. This discussion has nothing to do with gender issues.

EvergreenFir、You seem to understand Japanese. Please comment on whether or not the Japanese language materials I cited are reliable.

No.49 (1944) states that A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers“. For fifty years after the war, it was common knowledge that "comfort women were highly paid professional prostitutes. Fifty years later, R. Coomaraswamy interviewed 16 self-proclaimed former Korean comfort women selected by North Korean government and Korean Council, and concluded that "comfort women were sex slaves." And American scholars followed suit. These people are the "historical revisionists". All of these testimonies violated domestic law and military regulations at the time. Eyagi (talk) 02:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Jumping in here with a bit of clarification -- Eyagi, I've changed the typeface in the quote from the report above to clarify what portion there was quoted from that source (). You don't mention, so I will point out that that source also says, This report however deals only with the Korean "comfort girls" recruited by the Japanese and attached to their Army in Burma.. I don't have much time for comment right now, but I do want to say that, though that source might be considered a WP:RS, other RSs express viewpoints which differ in general and perhaps re Burma in particular, and that WP policy requires that WP:DUE be followed in such cases. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Your point is that the document I cited is about Burma and not representative of Korean comfort women as a whole?

As already explained, at that time, Koreans were one citizen of the Japanese Empire and under the same legal system. The Japanese in this document were Koreans with Japanese names. They were employed in Korea by former Korean restaurant owners. As of 1939, the number of intermediaries (also called recruiters or pimps) between prospective prostitutes and employers in Korea was 197 Japanese and 3,380 Koreans. Intermediaries made a living by mediating the conclusion of contracts between the two parties, earning commissions from both parties. Thus, this number of people is evidence that there were several thousand contracts signed by Korean in 1939. Prostitution without a contract was illegal and subject to police control. This document is evidence of the reality that all Korean comfort women were employed under domestic law.

The following is an excerpt from M. Ramseyer's letter requesting retraction of the paper:”Most importantly, the Japanese government acknowledged in its Kono statement in 1993 that these young women and girls were “recruited against their own will” and “lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere,” and that Japanese “administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments.” This settled fact has been further affirmed by the United Nations, Amnesty International, and the US House of Representatives.”:“1. The framing of the situation as a “contracting” problem without supporting evidence”. As already explained, this letter is an intentional misquotation of the Kono statement and a substitution of logic. The primary source for the claim that comfort women are sex slaves is UN Report. Please compare the above claim with the closed "Verification of the authenticity of the lead sentence" talk peges. Most of the signatories must have read the lead sentence in wikipedeia’s” comfort women”, and signed the letter. Eyagi (talk) 04:44, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Anybody citing Report 49 must be a WP:SECONDARY source, not a Misplaced Pages editor. Report 49 is a favorite of Japanese nationalist reactionaries, because it seems to cover the topic but it touches only a small fraction. Binksternet (talk) 06:53, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Your claim has been discussed in a repeat of Talk on 9 June 2022 (UTC). See for yourself the Congressional Research Service Memorandum, p.7. Aoich has removed part of the Controversy on this Memorandum.

“Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces (1945) is also the primary source in English. Please read along and decide for yourself what is true. Eyagi (talk) 02:28, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

You are beating a dead horse. You have had this same discussion many times, which is by this time a violation of WP:Tendentious editing. Binksternet (talk) 02:58, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

No one can erase the facts of history. My Talk is all factual and consistent with wikipedia's policy.

Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Misplaced Pages’s policy: information in Misplaced Pages should be verifiable and must not be original research: the phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Misplaced Pages to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist：Its content is determined by previously published information rather than editors' beliefs, opinions, or experiences. Eyagi (talk) 02:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

You are persistently puffing up small facts into bigger "truths", violating WP:NPOV and WP:NOR as you do so. Your reliance on Report 49 is emblematic of this kind of POV-pushing. You have consistently violated WP:Tendentious editing and are continuing to do so, with unrelenting bias. Binksternet (talk) 03:40, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Acroterion again closed the "WP:LEAD violation of lead sentence" talk page during the discussion, saying it’s not WP:OR Forum. Do you have such authority ?

In Talk, I specifically pointed out that the current lede is not WP:NPOV and unreliable. Binksternet and other editors criticize my claim as WP:OR, but does not reply which claim falls under WP:OR. Please answer the following questions to clarify the difference of opinion. If you have any objections, show evidence and refute.

Basic acknowledge:

1.Empire of Japan was a country ruled by law. At that time, Koreans were citizens of the Empire of Japan. Under the law, Japanese, Koreans, citizens, soldiers and police were equal.

2. Koreans were part of the Japanese military and police force. Rape, assault, threats, kidnapping and abduction, fraud and extortion of civilians, by soldiers and policemen were violations of the penal code.

3. In Imperial Japan, licensed prostitution was legal. To obtain a license to engage in prostitution, her willingness to work, her parental consent document and a copy of their contract with her employer, and age for Koreans to be at least 17 years old were required.

Comfort women issue:

1. 240 have been recognized by the South Korean government as opposed to claims of approximately 200,000 Korean former comfort women.

2. The Kono Statement states that the ethnic majority was Japanese.

3. The basis for the sex slaves claim is the UN report.

4. The evidence of sex slaves claim by UN report is the testimony of former Korean comfort women and Japanese military regulations.

5. H.Res.121 cites Seiji Yoshida's book as evidence of forced recruitment of Koreans, No.49 as evidence of deceiving and recruiting Koreans, and Kono statement as evidence of the majority of Koreans.

6. Seiji Yoshida's book is fiction. Hicks' book quotes Seiji Yoshida's book.

7. of “Most of the women were from occupied countries, including Korea, China, and the Philippines.” in lede is unsubstantiated paper.

AndyThGrump criticized the talk as "contributor's personal analysis of primary sources”. The content of this Talk is a brief summary of the many licensed prostitute claims and is not a personal opinion. The Archive of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact contains 106 references related to comfort women. Some of these are listed below. If you refute these materials by labeling them as the claims of right-wingers, historical revisionists or denialists, you have proven yourselves incapable of refuting them.

General:

Comfort Women for Japanese Army during 1930s through 1945 | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Behind The Comfort Women Controversy: How Lies Became Truth | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

A Guide to Understanding Comfort women Controversy | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE “COMFORT WOMEN” | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

The Truth about the Question of “Comfort Women” | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Comfort Women and Sex in the Battle Zone | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Contract:

Contracting for Sex in the Pacific War: A Response to My Critics by J. Mark Ramseyer :: SSRN

Comfort Women: The Economics of the Contracts and the Politics of the Dispute by J. Mark Ramseyer :: SSRN

“Ianfu” ha mina gouikeiyaku siteita (“Comfort Women” All Signed a Contract of Agreement) by T. Arima (2021)

Comfort Women: The North Korean Connection by J. Mark Ramseyer, Tetsuo Arima :: SSRN

UN report:

“Sex-Slave” Report: The UN’s Global Hoax (Jiyu-sha) No.1: Foreword, Table of Contents, List of Contributors | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Testimony:

A Deceitful Korean Citizens’ Group (NGO) and the Comfort Women Issue | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Behind The Comfort Women Controversy: How Lies Became Truth | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

Comfort Women: The North Korean Connection by J. Mark Ramseyer, Tetsuo Arima :: SSRN

The story of a comfort woman who contracted with Korean entrepreneurs and frequently changed comfort stations | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

At long last, the false theory of “forced abduction of comfort women” is collapsing. | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

H.Res.121:

No Organized or Forced Recruitment: Misconception about Comfort Women and the Japanese Military | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

“Sex-Slave” Report: The UN’s Global Hoax (Jiyu-sha) No.5: Chapter 2: The Fiction Equating Comfort Women with Sex Slaves Spreads throughout the World B. Tanaka Yuki’s Book Forms Basis of US House Resolution | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

MacGraw-Hill text book:

RESPONSE TO THE UPDATED VERSION OF THE OPEN LETTER IN SUPPORT OF HISTORIANS IN JAPAN | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

JAPANESE SCHOLARS’ POSITION ON RESPONSE TO STATEMENT ISSUED BY AMERICAN SCHOLARS | Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sdh-fact.com)

There are two Japanese versions of wikipedia on comfort women: "Japan's comfort women" and "Japan's comfort women issue." Anyone can read articles in other languages in their own language using the automatic translation function. Unlike the English version, both are written from a neutral point of view.

Eyagi (talk) 02:19, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Per Misplaced Pages policy on original research, nobody is under any obligation whatsoever to 'refute' anything. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:33, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

The following are proposals for re-editing the current article to be neutral in content. If you have objections, please discuss them here.

Obtaining consensus before publication

1. The content of the manuscript will be posted on Talk in advance to reach consensus.
2. If no consensus can be reached, describe it in the article (both claims are written together).
   

Editors

The editors must be neutral.

Edited contents

1. Use neutral expressions and in principle, state facts based on primary source (primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved）.
2. Exclude citations of secondary sources and media information that do not mention primary (original) sources, and delete articles that quote them.
3. When there is a doubt about the reliability of the primary source, the doubt should be noted alongside.
4. Delete articles that misquote literature.
5. Delete articles that do not correctly describe the cited literature.

Contents of lead sentence

Summarize the entire contents of the article in one page or less.

Examples of primary sources

General: law and police records on prostitution system of Empire Japan: documents issued by government and military of Empire Japan: documents issued by allied forces during Pacific War: records of Japanese military war crimes trials by various countries: diary and others.
Licensed prostitute claims: domestic law (1916), military regulations and police records (1938 to 1945) on the prostitution system.
Sexual slavery claim: Koreans: Coomaraswamy report (1996), Others: McDougall report (1998).
H.Res.121：Congressional Report Service Memorandum (2006) and testimony of former comfort women.   Eyagi (talk) 01:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

WP:BOLD: The Misplaced Pages community encourages users to be bold when updating the encyclopedia. We would like everyone to be bold and help make Misplaced Pages a better encyclopedia.

WP:Talk: Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. When talk pages in other namespaces (including userspace) are used for discussion and communication between users, discussion should be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia. Eyagi (talk) 05:25, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

As mentioned in“WP:LEAD violation of lead sentence” of Talk, a part of United States House of Representatives House Resolution 121’s Controversy article of Misplaced Pages was deleted by Aoidh. The reason for deletion is explained in “Request for explanation of basis for deletion”, but it is not specific and I do not understand. To share information with readers, here are the articles that have been deleted. Can someone please point out which parts fall under WP:OR and if there are any counterarguments?

Doubts about the basis of resolution

In addition to citing Seiji Yoshida's book, there are some doubts as to the veracity of the memorandum and testimony upon which this resolution was based.

1. Misrecognition of facts in the Kono statement: Majority were Japanese

The memorandum's author, citing the Kono Statement, claimed that the majority of comfort women were Koreans (p.7,12). The Kono statement states,”excluding those from Japan, those from the Korean Peninsula accounted for a large part.” This is a serious misrepresentation of fact. If the majority of comfort women were Japanese, the story of "sex slaves" would not hold.

2. Absence of evidence to prove the credibility of Yuki Tanaka's book citation testimony

The author cited the testimony of Yuki Tanaka's book as evidence of "sex slaves," but in order to use the testimony as evidence, it is necessary to present documentary evidence to support its credibility. But the author had presented nothing. Radhika Coomaraswamy, author of the UN report, presented G. Hicks' book, Seiji Yoshida's book and Japanese military brothel regulations as documentary evidence for their testimony.

Asian nations and the Western nations that colonized Asia punished those involved in the forced prostitution of Dutch women (Netherlands) and rape (Philippines) in post-war courts. An IWG investigation published in 2007 found no documents indicating violations of women's human rights.

3. Rebuttal to the interrogation report No.49 as evidence of deception : Evidence of licensed prostitutes

The net income of the comfort women (150-750 yen per month) was extremely high compared to the wages of the house-maids (6-15 yen per month by region) under the same payment terms (with meals, room and others) in 1942. It was common sense in society that the work of comfort women was a sex service. The licensed prostitution system was introduced in 1916 and, as shown in Table 1, was established in Korean society. The age of the comfort women was 17 years or older as stipulated by the licensed prostitution law, and the owner of the comfort station was Korean couple with Japanese names who were professionals in the licensed prostitution. The comfort women and their families signed contracts with the comfort station owner, and the families received an advance payment. The gross monthly income of comfort women was above 300 yen, which was consistent with newspaper advertisements for comfort women at the time. The fact that there was a difference in income is proof that the market principle was at work in the comfort women's work. No.49 proves that "comfort women were licensed prostitutes.”

References

1. "Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono on the Result of the Study on the Issue of "Comfort Women"". August 4, 1993.
2. Radhika Coomaraswamy (December 10, 1996). "Report of the Special Rapporteur on violence against women, its causes and consequences".
3. "Final Report of the Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group". April 2007.
4. "Chōsensōtokufu Tōkei-nenpō Shōwa 17-nen" (in Japanese). March 1944. p.157
5. "Chōsensōtokufu Tōkei-nenpō Shōwa 14-nen" (in Japanese). 1941. p.366
6. "Chōsensōtokufu Tōkei-nenpō Shōwa 17-nen" (in Japanese). March 1944. p.262
7. 19 Japanese Historians (March 17, 2015). "Requesting Correction of Factual Errors in McGraw-Hill Textbook".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link) Attachment 3

4. Credibility of former comfort women's testimony

Three former comfort women (one Dutch and two Koreans) testified. The Dutch woman's testimony indicates a violation of military regulations by army unit. Two months after the comfort station where she had been forced into prostitution opened, the high-ranking officer who came to inspect the internment camp learned of this fact and immediately closed the comfort station and released the Dutch women. The fact that the Japanese military closed the comfort station shows that the discipline of the Japanese military was functioning. After the war, this incident was tried by the Dutch East Indies government. The officer responsible for opening the comfort station was sentenced to death, and his subordinates, the doctor responsible for conducting the examinations, and the civilians involved in the employment were sentenced to imprisonment, and executed.

The testimonies of the two Koreans indicate that they were unlicensed prostitutes and they worked in unlicensed brothels, not comfort stations. This is a case of violation of domestic law and military regulations. Domestic law prohibited unlicensed prostitution, and military regulations prohibited the working of the unlicensed prostitutes, violence in the stations, and non-use of sacks. The military checked the balance sheets between the comfort station operators and comfort women reported monthly by the operators, and confirmed payment to the comfort women. Discipline in the comfort station was enforced by the military police, and venereal disease examinations were conducted by military doctors. Records of the military police show that rape and injury crimes by the China Expeditionary Army were rare, and violations of rules in comfort stations were mainly caused by drunkenness, and violators were punished, and the number of incidents was extremely small. Kidnapping, rape, and injury were violations of the criminal law. The arrest rate for kidnapping and rape was almost 100% as shown in Table 2. Their testimonies prove that they were not comfort women.

As explained above, this resolution was passed on the basis of misquotation of Kono statement and baseless memorandum, as well as testimony of cases in violation of domestic law and military regulations. Eyagi (talk) 07:43, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

References

1. Bart van Poelgeest (January 24, 1994). "Report of a Study of Dutch Government Documents on the Forced Prostitution of Dutch Women in the Dutch East Indies during the Japanese Occupation (unofficial translation)" (PDF).
2. "Kashizashiki shōgitorishimarikisoku" (in Japanese). 1916.
3. "Regulations Governing the Use of the Special Brothel in the South Sector Billet". July 20, 1942.
4. "Regulations for Governing the Comfort Facilities and Ryokan Business". November 11, 1943., Appendix Table No.7 Income and Expenditure Statement
5. "Number of crime by military personnel and civilian employees". 1945. A.1.1, A.1.2 and A.2.1
6. "Misconduct related to Comfort Station". 1941., A.2.4 to A.2.7
7. "Chōsensōtokufu Tōkei-nenpō Shōwa 14-nen" (in Japanese). 1941. p.352 to 355

Current "comfort women" articles do not include any explanation of the licensed prostitution system of the time. English-speaking readers are discussing the comfort women issue without such basic knowledge. Editor Binksternet criticized Ramseyer as follow: “Ramseyer cannot read or speak Korean, as he himself admits, so his notional assessments of Korean primary sources are rendered useless.” Binksternet (talk) 18:42, 18 December 2022 “
The comfort women issue was an event during the Empire of Japan. At that time, Korea was part of the Empire of Japan, and the official language was Japanese. All primary sources on the comfort women issue are in Japanese. Ramseyer understands Japanese and his article cites many Japanese references. The following is a brief explanation of the licensed prostitution in the Empire of Japan and primary documents showing when comfort stations were established.

In the Empire of Japan, licensed prostitution was legal. The Licensed prostitution system was established in 1900 in mainland Japan for the purpose of preventing the sexually transmitted disease(STD) and maintaining social morals. In order to obtain a license for prostitution, the applicant had to be at least 18 years of age, present herself at the police station, and submit written her will to work and written consent from the person with parental authority. "Shogi (Japanese legal term: licensed prostitutes)” were employed by the "Kashizashiki (Japanese legal term: licensed brothel)” operators under a multi-year indentured service contracts with the advance payment concluded through the intermediary of recruiters. Shogi were required to work only in kashizashikis, to undergo periodic SDC examinations, and to return the advance payment, although they were free to close the business. This system was introduced in Taiwan in 1906 (primary source not available online) and in Korea in 1916. The minimum age for permission was set at 16 in Taiwan and 17 in Korea, taking into account differences in local customs, and became established in society (see attached table).
Outside the Empire of Japan, the Imperial Japanese Military had been using private brothels on the condition that they accepted periodic STD examinations. As the war front expanded, from 1938 onward the Japanese Military established regulations for "comfort stations" in compliance with domestic law and became involved in the establishment and operation of comfort stations.

References

1. "Licensed prostitutes regulation order in Japan". Ministry of Home Affairs of Japan. 1900.
2. J. Mark Ramseyer (Spring 1991). "Indentured Prostitution in Imperial Japan: Credible Commitments in the Commercial Sex Industry". JSTOR. p. 89-116.
3. "Shokuminchi Taiwan ni okeru Chōsen-jin sekkyaku-gyō to `ianfu' no dōin" (in jp). 2001.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link)
4. "Licensed brothel and prostitute regulation order in Korea under Japanese Empire". Police Administration Bureau, Governor-General of Korea. 1916.
5. Imperial Japanese Military (1938–1945). "Collection of Imperial Japanese Military Comfort Station Regulation".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)
6. Consulate General Police Station in Shanghai (1937). "Kōgun heishi ianfujyo no torai ni tsuki bengi kyōyo irai no ken" (PDF) (in jp). p. 36. As a result of the mutual agreement between the military attaché of the Consulate General of Japan and the Military Police, it was decided to establish comfort stations (de facto kashizashikis) at various locations along the front line as part of the facilities, in accordance with the following guidelines.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link)

I suggest that the above info, except for the paragraph beginning: "Outside the Empire of Japan ...", might be the basis for a separate article with a title something like: The Licensed Prostitution System in the Empire of Japan. Once that article is established, the wikilink on the word prostitution in the portion of the first sentence of the Establishment by Japanese military subsection of this article which currently reads: "Given that prostitution in Japan was pervasive and organized, it was logical to find military prostitution in the Japanese armed forces." be piped to that new article. Perhaps once that is done a less POV-focused discussion might be had about how, and to what extent, it might be appropriate to reflext both POVs in this article in keeping with WP:DUE. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:57, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Articles are built from secondary sources. Not contributors own analysis of selected primary sources dating back a hundred years or so ago. And any credible article on prostitution (in the Japanese Empire or anywhere else) would need secondary sourcing discussing the extent to which regulations were actually enforced. Eyagi's arguments are built around the absurd proposition that because regulations would seem to have forbidden forced prostitution etc, such events didn't occur. Facile WP:OR arguments promoted to support a contributors own POV don't belong anywhere on Misplaced Pages. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:57, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Further to this, note that Draft:Licensed Prostitution System in Korea under the Japanese Empire, which presented much the same WP:OR material, was rejected as "contrary to the purpose of Misplaced Pages". And note that rather than engage in any attempt at dispute resolution (as advised by multiple contributors, on on multiple occasions, see e.g. ) Eyage has repeatedly posted the same tendentious material already responded to here. I see no reason whatsoever to see this as anything other than an attempt to impose POV-pushing WP:OR through endless repetition of invalid arguments, and as such worthy of no response beyond hatting as contrary to policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:42, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

I understood the advice by Wtmitchell. I think the same applies to the comfort stations.
The following is a draft of the second half of the revised “lead sentence”. Reference 7 was attempted to be obtained from the website of the MOFA of ROK, but it could not be found, so it was unwillingly quoted from the website of the MOFA of Japan.

In 1965, the Japanese and ROK governments signed the Japan-ROK Claims Agreement, which stated that the claims between the two countries and their citizens had been fully and finally settled. Since December 1991, the comfort women issue became a diplomatic issue between the two countries, and the Japanese government launched an investigation into the comfort women issue. In 1993, based on this result, the Kono statement was issued, expressing sincere apologies and remorse, stating that this issue, with the involvement of the military at the time, had deeply harmed the honor and dignity of many women. In 1995, in order to fulfill its moral responsibility, the Japanese people and the Japanese government cooperated to establish the "Asian Women's Fund for Peace" (abbreviated as "Asian Women's Fund"), which provides medical and welfare support programs and "atonement money" to former comfort women in Asian countries, including South Korea. In 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res.121. and countries have since followed suit. In 2011, the Korean Council installed a comfort women statue on the sidewalk in front of the Japanese Embassy in Seoul. Since then, this NGO has been promoting the installation of comfort women statues around the world. In December 2015, the Japanese and the ROK governments confirmed that the comfort women’s issue was “resolved finally and irreversibly” with the agreement reached at the Japan-ROK Foreign Ministers’ Meeting. In May 2017, the Moon Jae-in administration was newly inaugurated. In November 2018, the Moon Jae-in administration dissolved the foundation on the grounds that the consent of the former comfort women had not been obtained. In January 2021, in a lawsuit filed against the Japanese government by former comfort women and others, the Seoul Central District Court of South Korea denied the application of the principle of immunity under international law, and ordered the Japanese government to finalized the judgment ordering the payment of damages, etc. The Japanese government maintains that this ruling is in clear violation of international law and the agreement between Japan and ROK, and cannot be accepted. and has been to this day. Eyagi (talk) 01:38, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

References

1. Hicks 1997, p. 28 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFHicks1997 (help)
2. Ministry of Foreign Affaires of Japan (1965). "AGREEMENT ON THE SETTLEMENT OF PROB LEMS CONCERNING PROPERTY AND CLAIMS AND ON ECONOMIC CO-OPERATION BETWEEN JAPAN AND THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA. SIGNED AT TOKYO, ON 22 JUNE 1965" (PDF).
3. Japanese government (1993). "Statement by the Chief Cabinet Secretary".
4. "The Asian Women's Fund" (PDF). 1995.
5. "H.Res.121". 2007.
6. The Korean Council. "commemoration". On December 14, 2011, the 1,000th Wednesday Demonstration was held and the Statue of Peace was revealed
7. Ministry of Foreign Affaires of Japan. "Announcement by Foreign Ministers of Japan and the Republic of Korea at the Joint Press Occasion".
8. Ministry of Foreign Affaires of Japan. "The issue of comfort women between Japan and the Republic of Korea (ROK)". In November, the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family announced that it would proceed with its dissolution of "the Reconciliation and Healing Foundation"
9. Ministry of Foreign Affaires of Japan (2021). "Regarding the Confirmation of the Judgment of the Seoul Central District Court of the Republic of Korea in the Lawsuit Filed by Former Comfort Women and Others (Statement by Foreign Minister MOTEGI Toshimitsu)".