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Revision as of 14:03, 19 October 2023 edit176.44.92.130 (talk) →Please remove that specific part of the introduction .: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 13:03, 20 October 2023 edit undo41.42.182.219 (talk) Fuck IsraelTags: Reverted Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit →
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Property Losses Estimate

The last sentence of the header reads: "According to Perry Anderson, it is estimated that half of the population in the Palestinian territories are refugees and that they have collectively suffered approximately US$300 billion in property losses due to Israeli confiscations, at 2008–09 prices."

However, the *total* national wealth of neighbouring Jordan (population >10M, greater than 2x the current population of the Gaza Strip + the West Bank) is $146 billion, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_countries_by_total_wealth. Even if property in Israel is substantially more valuable per square foot (possible), Israel's total national wealth is only $1,046 billion or $1.05 trillion (same source), and Israel is an unusually stable/rich/technologically innovative country by Middle Eastern standards so the land in an independent Palestine has no guarantee to be as valuable as land in the state of Israel.

I submit that this sentence should be removed as not credible, or at least have some sort of qualification added to it providing context (such as the total wealth of neighbouring Jordan).

"Arab"

I hope I am not paranoid or anything : but this recent edit by Skitash is largely meaningless .

Where is this ethnonym in the introduction of Lebanese , Syrian , Egyptian , "Insert Arabic-speaking nation"  ? .

Even "Real Arabs" in Western Parlance such as Jordan , don't have this word as the very first word in the introduction of articles descriping nations .

To avoid confusion : the meaning of "Arab" in our times is largely a modern construct that was no more than a tinkering object of some Maronite and Christian intellectuals seeking an alternative to the Millet system prior to the WWI .

To Arabic-Speaking Ottoman Levantines : "Arab" referred to desert nomads , rather than a nation or ethnicity , as clearly seen in numerous village toponyms having the prefix "Arab" to indicate the village's inhabitants were former Bedouins. This usage is not unusual ; it stretches back to Biblical times , as seen in examples from the Bible like Isaiah 13:20 , or Nehemiah's adversary being referred to as "The Arabian" . Even the "Arab revolt" of Arab nationalist histography was predominantly a Hijazi afiar in the name of Hashemite dynastic aspirations than "Arab"


Such reductive tone is taken either by hateful Israeli-Jews , or passionate Pan-Arabists ( Indeed : Skitash has Abdelaziz Bouteflika's picture on his profile .)


I propose deleting it . Stating that Palestinians are an ethno-national group whose origins lie in the region's ancient inhabitants which were eventually Arabized , is a more appropriate descriptive than merely saying "Arab" without explaining what "Arab" actually means (Ethnicity/Language and culture ? ; so are Copts and Assyrians . Descent /Race ? , of course some marginal admixture. Arab= Arabian = Oman , Emirate etc ? , defintely not at all , but Levantine .)


Hope editors respond  ; there is no need for politically charged misconceptions to resurface .

Thanks . 2.88.119.229 (talk) 14:17, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Redundant stuff

"Palestinians are an Arab ethnonational group who are now culturally linguistically Arab" lmao why do you need to repeat that they're Arab twice? Clearly seems like an NPOV soapbox kinda issue where the definition is trying to tacitly emphasize the fact that they're "Arab" rather than their own people. 2001:569:57B2:4D00:C9A0:AE48:F495:2536 (talk) 18:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Please remove that specific part of the introduction .

Hey .

I just want to say what has already been said : remove the "are an Arab" part at the introduction.

The editor who forced this line , Skitash , is clearly an Arabist . A few days ago : he blatantly removed a crucial paragraph which takes into account the Levantine , non-Arab origins of Palestinians which explains what is exactly meant by Palestinians being an Arab group , and also the Pre-Islamic history of the region , and has the guts to say "unsourced for quite a while" , when that line has been around for years with a source .

It's clear such edits of this nature are not meant to discuss the identity, heritage , and origins of Palestinians on a holistic , unprejudiced basis , but to shed away Palestinian peoplehood in favour of Arabist views (which might also be shared by Zionists , which is exactly what they are looking for , so they can deny Palestinian existence and legitimacy ) . The very least thing we need now is saying that Canaanites , Israelites , and other semitic groups , are "Arabs"  ; confusing Arabian origin with Arabs , who didn't exist before Islam (Peter Webb , Imagining the Arabs) , let alone the Bronze Age .

I repeat : please delete this line . It is gratuitous , and misleading , and is making it seem the article is a circular argument , rather than an encyclopedic entry . 176.44.52.30 (talk) 21:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

It does seem repetitive as it is mentioned twice, in differing contexts. We shouldn't need to mention the fact Palestinians are Arab twice in one sentence. JJNito197 (talk) 22:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
An Arabist is someone who studies Arabic civilization or language. Selfstudier (talk) 23:04, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi . Sorry for the late reply ... got busy .
Anyway : I meant an Nasserist-Arab Nationalist , not Arabist in either the Academic , or the 1970s Political sense of Arabo-philes.
The problem with the introduction doesn't need to be reiterated , by saying "An Arab" right from the get-go  : we are in effect de-contextualizing the uniqueness of a national group , in favor of appealing to common prejudice of "Arab" referring to desert-nomads , or a synonym for "Arabian" .
Many , I would dare say most , people still can't comprehend that "Arab" isn't a racial identity , but one whose essence lies in traditions and language independent of phenotypical appearance , or biological ancestry . Let's look at a most obvious example , which is Egyptians . They are "Arabs" , yet they are still thier own nation independent of the label "Arab": just like saying "Hispanic" , but one could be Argentinian or Mexican . It is one thing to state some ethnographical classifications ; it's another to imagine monoliths , and forcing groups into it .
This is the impression of what an average reader would get from the keyword "an arab" introduced so early ; which defeats the whole purpose of the article enlightening readers about Palestinians and thier identity and roots , ending up instead appealing to Zionist or Nasserist-Arabist POV ( In fact : the so-called "Impartial" Israeli-Misplaced Pages uses such similar wording ) .
I know this might seem like a minor edit , but some people don't have the luxury of time , or developed the ability to speed-read Misplaced Pages articles . Is it really worth discussing the problematic impressions stemming from this edit any further ?. Sources might be "right" and valid , but sometimes they are included or placed in wrong places .
..I said my piece , just hope the problem with the edit is clear , besides redundancy . 176.44.92.130 (talk) 14:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
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