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Revision as of 07:27, 27 December 2023 editMKsLifeInANutshell (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,127 edits →New Articles (December 18 to December 24): ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 07:42, 27 December 2023 edit undoSalvidrim! (talk | contribs)Edit filter helpers, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers, Template editors28,650 edits →New Articles (December 18 to December 24): rNext edit →
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::@]: Hey, for December 21 - ], it was actually created by me, not @], the same thing happened for November 28 - ]. It was shown that @] had made it. Only because the page used to exist, and he just merged that previous page's history. So my name got deleted. If you check the page but put Draft: in the link, then check the history, my name would be there. ] (]) 07:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC) ::@]: Hey, for December 21 - ], it was actually created by me, not @], the same thing happened for November 28 - ]. It was shown that @] had made it. Only because the page used to exist, and he just merged that previous page's history. So my name got deleted. If you check the page but put Draft: in the link, then check the history, my name would be there. ] (]) 07:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
:::This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:Lego_Ninjago:_Shadow_of_Ronin&action=history ] (]) 07:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC) :::This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:Lego_Ninjago:_Shadow_of_Ronin&action=history ] (]) 07:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Same for ] -- I think the root cause is because it was created (as a userdraft then mainspaced), then pagemoved by Zxcvbn. <span style="background:black;padding:1px 4px">]&nbsp;]</span> 07:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 07:42, 27 December 2023

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WikiProject iconVideo games Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game
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Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks:
Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks
AfDs Merge discussions Other discussions No major discussions Featured content candidates Good article nominations DYK nominations Reviews and reassessments
Articles that need...
Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks
AfDs Merge discussions Other discussions No major discussions Featured content candidates Good article nominations DYK nominations Reviews and reassessments
Articles that need...
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Pre-FAC peer review of Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number

For the past while (basically since I have joined Misplaced Pages), I have been working on improving Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number as much as possible, getting it through GAN back in October, and I plan to nominate it for FAC some time in January. This will be my first time nominating something for FAC and due to this, I have opened up a pre-FAC peer review for the article, which has gone nearly a month without any responses. If anyone could take a look at it that would be great, and I'm willing to exchange reviews as well. NegativeMP1 22:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The peer review is now closed. NegativeMP1 03:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Hedgewars, again

Hedgewars is a free and open-source turn-based tactical artillery game and Worms clone. On this site, it was deleted in 2009 and 2014, after which it was WP:SALTed. However, to bypass the restriction, the article reappeared as "Hedgewars (video game)", and it was deleted again in 2022, though not salted. In each of these discussions, the rationale behind the result was failure to establish notablility, although the last discussion saw the hardest evidence in favor of it. This discussion presents an even stronger case for it, with some sources the same as those presented there, and with these sources, either Hedgewars meets the notability requirements by a small margin, or I am beginning to learn what exactly that line is.

To minimize the possibility of reviews being solicited, I left out those by websites such as Softpedia. I also only considered substantial reviews, rather than those like one by Linux For You, so I was left with six reviews. Two come from Gry-Online and PC Guru. Both are considered high-quality sources, one according to WP:VG/RS and the other probably so. Two further sources are Linux-oriented, LinuxEXPRES and EasyLinux (via LinuxCommunity). The last two sources are notably mainstream: iDNEZ.cz, a major Czech website, and Republica, a Spanish news website, although curiously, the latter's article is dated about a year and a half before the site was launched. I am not sure what is with that. It could be that it originated on a different publication before its contents were merged into this one.

Hedgewars also received news coverage. They include these two Czech websites, but I prefer articles with significant coverage, so I am limited to three articles. One comes from Komputer Świat, of moderate length. The other two are by Root.cz, which is a little longer, and LinuxCommunity, the most comprehensive article I could find on the Web. There are of course minor news articles, like this one concerning an iPhone port. There are also various articles in the format of "best x games" or "top n x games", the best of which seems to be "the 10 best free software games" by Linux Voice, although I am concerned that it may be undue since, coming from a Linux magazine, it is possibly intended to be a list of "the 10 best free software Linux games".

Of all the high-quality, substantial articles and reviews that attempted to demonstrate Hedgewars's notability, I could uncover a total of nine sources, all unique. That is a lot of sources for an FOSS title, one that has no hope of surpassing Worms in popularity, at least in the near future. The coverage has definitely improved since the 2009 deletion, and with it serving as the most comprehensive evidence for notability to date, this discussion should serve as the most well-informed debate and there as the final verdict on the game's notability, with the possibility of future significant coverage. I am on the fence on this subject, but assuming all the nine said sources can be used, I am inclined to believing that the secondary coverage pulls it into notable territory necessary for an article on Misplaced Pages. I remember reading nearly a decade ago about the developers chiding Misplaced Pages for deleting the article twice. They may chide us again should we not find for its notability, but I would not be personally offended. Any conflict-of-interest issues can be handled with in case we do. FreeMediaKid$ 21:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Impressive job finding sources, I think the article meets WP:GNG. You should nominate the page at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. --Mika1h (talk) 23:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
I would also support putting it at Deletion review in order to potentially overturn the deletion with these sources. The fact that most of its coverage was in a different language probably tripped people up. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Also, maybe before hitting up DR, you could create a draft version with the new sources. Masem (t) 13:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Seconding this. People have a much better time envisioning the article when they can just see what it would look like and not have to envision. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
In any way, it should be possible to mention it as a notable Worms clone. IgelRM (talk) 02:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (December 4 to December 10)

Main page: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements 
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 01:53, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

December 4

December 5

December 6

December 7

December 9

December 10

Accolades table, Gayming Magazin

My understanding is that Gayming is considered a publication award with subject expertise. But this was disputed by @Sophiesyne: and @CandyGallows:, therefore I figure it would be worth bringing up here. (@Rhain: Also I found insisting on linking Gayming Awards on Stray (video game) rather surprising, but I realize LGBT is a hot issue) Regards IgelRM (talk) 13:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this specifically a question about Stray (video game)? Because I wouldn't include a reader-polled/choice award in with wider industry awards or a publication-specific one. The latter are far more consequential than the former. (And on the same note, I find it really weird that PlayStation Blog gets a similar large amount of space to talk about its own awards, especially since it's not an independent entity.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 14:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
No, I believe it's mostly about this edit at Cult of the Lamb and this one at Signalis, both of which moved the Gayming Awards nominations from prose to the table. The mention of Stray seems solely in opposition to this edit which added a link to Gayming Awards. Not sure I see the point of a statement like "LGBT is a hot issue" since it's neither an "issue" nor relevant to the conversation. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, although you also reverted my edit at first for poor quality. It was more of a observation and since I'm mentioning Gayming anyway here. Apologies if it sounded like I was coming at you. IgelRM (talk) 12:57, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
RE PlayStation blog: I also feel like it would need another wording as it feels like both a platform holder feature and subsidized accolade. IgelRM (talk) 01:57, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't dispute Gayming Magazine's expertise. I reverted your edit because you removed the Gayming Awards from the Signalis article's awards table. I support adding a paragraph to the section. However, our policy is for the table to remain intact despite any information the paragraph repeats (God of War is an excellent example). I assume others reverted your edits for similar reasons. Hopefully, this cleared up any confusion.
--Sophiesyne (talk) 17:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes, but this paragraph/table difference is precisely why I brought this up. Please see David Fuchs above, I don't think it is necessary to include in the table as well. IgelRM (talk) 12:58, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
@Sophiesyne: May I bump this, because the God of War example mentions publications which are not included in the table? IgelRM (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
From my understanding the Gayming Awards presented by a magazine, Gayming Magazine, is not notable enough to have its own article thus should only be included in prose as opposed to a table per WP:VG/AWARDS.  Spy-cicle💥  16:39, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
That was my thinking, but I suppose Rhain's argument is that it might be in the future. IgelRM (talk) 01:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
My "argument" has nothing to do with the table at this point, and my recent edits are entirely in line with Spy-cicle's suggestion, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 02:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

List of role-playing video games: 2022 to 2023

The redirect List of role-playing video games: 2022 to 2023 was previously deleted because of WP:TOOSOON. As that seems no longer applicable, I re-created the page as a stub list. It would help if the table could be further populated. Thank you. Praemonitus (talk) 17:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

VGHF will be providing an online digital gaming resource library soon

Preview of its features Masem (t) 01:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Mario Kart Wii "Ultra Shortcut(s)"

I used the custom Google search engine for reliable sources for video games WP:VG/LRS and I typed in "Mario Kart Wii Ultra Shortcut" and wasn't sure if the coverage in the sources that come up make this topic notable to be included on the Mario Kart Wii page or somewhere else on Misplaced Pages like a section on the Speedrunning page. Can someone please help me understand? I am super surprised it wasn't mentioned on Talk: Mario Kart Wii until I mentioned it. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 06:11, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Eurogamer, Polygon, Vice; It's true that Mario Kart Wii is becoming quite known as a game massively broken by speedrunners. Can definitely be worth a line or two in the Legacy section, though if you want to go further than that, I'd be interested in what you could compile and write on it :) ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Ok, can definitely do that. Though the legacy section of MKW's page was removed a while ago. But perhaps in can be brought back. But I'd say that perhaps it should be called "Speedrunning presence", since that is the name for the section of the Mario Kart 64 page that talks about the speedrunning scene. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 08:00, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
That's probably a reasonable section header here. I wonder if there's sources talking about Mario Kart Wii speedrunning very broadly. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:41, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Idk. I will have to check NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 08:46, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
A section called 'speedrunning presence' doesn't seem the right choice to me and a 'legacy' section is often tricky. For legacy, try to see it as a lasting influence on other games. That a game can be buggy and be exploited in speedrunning isn't 'legacy'. soetermans. 09:40, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm also of the mindset of thinking that a few sentences in the article would be fine, but a whole section or separate article would be a bit much... Sergecross73 msg me 14:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Ok. Glad to have opinions about this from others. But where should the information go in the article?NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 14:27, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
There's a Mario Kart 8#Fan response as part of its reception section that contains random odds and ends like modding and the "Luigi Death Stare". Maybe something like that? Sergecross73 msg me 14:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Seems like that might work. But I am wondering if I should mention and/or link the YouTube video by Summoning Salt titled "Mario Kart Wii: History of the Ultra Shortcut", since the video titled "The Quest to beat Abney317" is referenced and linked directly in the section of the Mario Kart 64 page. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 15:00, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
No, I think the Mario Kart 64 section on speedrunning should be reworked, or deleted. It wasn't written according to reliable sources. Something I noticed earlier on the year - while Mario Kart 8 was very well written by a lot of experienced editors, there's a number of older entries that aren't particularly well written. For example, at the beginning of the year, I noticed Mario Kart 7 was in surprisingly bad shape. I cleaned it up some, but it's still not amazing. So don't assume other article are necessarily the way to do things either. Sergecross73 msg me 15:11, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Oh I hate the framing of "fan response" when describing the mechanical intricacies of the (hobbyist) competitive scene. That doesn't feel right at all... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:21, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't really care what it's called, I just meant a subsection similar to as far as it placement. Sergecross73 msg me 13:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I believe that Ultra Shortcut is brought to attention singlehandedly by Summoning Salt. The YouTube videos themselves are perhaps not eligible for a reliable source, but if they are comprehensive enough to be cited by other sources, the reliable sources could be used instead. MilkyDefer 08:36, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Well, that video sourced via a vice article on the summoning Salt Misplaced Pages article, but the video isn't directly mentioned on that Misplaced Pages article. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 01:35, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
Which I am a little surprised by since it is the most viewed video on Salt's channel. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Viability of a Category:Fan translated video games

I noticed that such a category was deleted back in 2007, but only had small participation in the discussion. I for one think that a video game having a fan translation is defining, as there are many games that are only widely known in the West due to this, like Mother 3. When speaking about such games, the fan translation is front and center. I'd like people's opinions on whether it would be viable or not though. It would preferably only contain games whose translations were specifically mentioned in reliable sources. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

You'd need to consider whether or not to include re-translations (games officially localized but fans don't like the translation so released their own), or incomplete translations. TarkusAB 01:10, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't have issues with the category being re-made once again. I'll also add to what Tarkus said as well, by citing what happened with X for the Game Boy; an English fan translation appeared the very same day the unreleased official English localization (Lunar Chase) was leaked in 2020. Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:22, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
A category like this will be fine, as long as -- as you suggest -- each entry has a RS that has reported on the translation. Phediuk (talk) 01:35, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
This is a tricky one. You get games like Final Fantasy V which has been in English for over 20 years now, but still have very notable fan translations. On the other hand something like Tobal 2 most people probably have forgotten these days and its notability was in its hayday well before any fan translation came about. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:58, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

The Fidelity Ultimate Chess Challenge

Firstly an IP removes content without explaining why, then the 3rd time says it's redundant, I simply don't get why it's redundant, the article is pretty limited as it is, so why remove content prose that helps buff it up a bit?? I really don't get the editing and view it simply as disruptive, can anyone else explain this?? Govvy (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not quite certain what the IP was intending to say, but direct quotes of that length are considered a copyvio. You should paraphrase reviewers' thoughts and keep direct quotes as short as you can to convey the message. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:58, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

NES game list needing help

I unfortunately don't have the spoons right now. Over the last 3-4 months, since the Famicom list merger at least, a rash of unsourced additions to List of Nintendo Entertainment System games have been made. The entire thing needs someone willing to cull all the unsourced non-notable entries. -- ferret (talk) 21:30, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Here are a few good sources for NES game lists: The NES Encyclopedia, and Classic Home Video Games 1985-1988: A Reference Guide. Andre🚐 21:44, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Limit for "Review scores" table

Hello again. I have a quick question about the video game reviews template. Is there a limit to how many reviews that should used for the table? I am still working on Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Wrath of the Darkhul King, and during the peer review, a reviewer said that they were advised not to add more than 10 reviews to the score tables on album articles in the past. Is there a similar thing for video game articles? Apologies if this has already been discussed and answered before. Thank you in advance for any help! Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, the documentation doesn't have a specific number but pushes that it should be kept pretty limited. It's not meant to be a catalog of every RS review, but a sampling of major representative opinions. I personally go for about 7, and would definitely say that 10 should be the max. --PresN 16:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Every review listed in the table should also be addressed in the reception, otherwise its just filling the table with unnecessary info. That's generally why 7 to 10 is the suggested limit. Masem (t) 16:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for the responses. That makes sense to me. I agree with both of your lines of reasoning as having a limit would help the readers and keep the table more precise and less filled with fluff. I will work on that part of the article later today. Aoba47 (talk) 17:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (December 11 to December 17)

Main page: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements 
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 21:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

December 11

December 12

December 13

  • None

December 14

December 15

  • None

December 16

December 17

Have you considered using User:AAlertBot and User:AlexNewArtBot? There's an example of the output on Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Astronomy. Praemonitus (talk) 21:28, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Fundamentally they're doing different things than this list. AlexNewArtBot checks for new page creations and tags them by "subject" based on what words are used in them. So you end up with both false positives and false negatives, and also don't get things like page moves out of draft space. This list, on the other hand, is articles that are new to the wikiproject, which is why it's based on the 1.0 bot output.
Also, posting this once a week means that people actually look at (some of) the articles in question. Most weeks get comments around the listed articles. The constant presence of AAlertBot, on the other hand, means that for a large project (like this one) the output just becomes background noise that people don't check regularly (though I find it super-helpful for smaller projects). --PresN 21:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Has there not been another one of the 'New articles' posts? MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 04:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Whoops, it was Christmas yesterday and I completely forgot until your post just now. --PresN 04:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
My reversion of the removal of The Last of Us Online was reverted a second time. Anyone besides me think that this game is probably notable? Even with its cancellation it's part of a major franchise and got dozens of articles on the subject over a long period. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
That's twice today I've seen a case where someone started an article, did 99% of the work, decided the bar wasn't met and self-redirected.... only for you to unredirect. In some cases the people putting the work in might just be correct. -- ferret (talk) 01:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Reliable source question

I'm wondering if someone from this WikiProject can help find a reliable source to cite for Torahiko Tanaka#Video games. The content about the game was added by another user, but they didn't add a citation. I can find the game for sale on sites like Amazon, Yahoo! Shopping and the like, but I'm not sure if those are considered reliable sources for something like this. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marchjuly Are you aware of WP:VG/S and the Google Custom Search linked there? Just pointing it out if you aren't. The Metacritic page is at this link but not much help there. Developer/release date/etc on Metacritic is unreliable last I knew, as it came from GameFAQs previously. -- ferret (talk) 01:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for that information. I don't do much editing related to video games and didn't know about that link. I give it a look. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Famitsu via Yahoo Japan. Does that help you? IgelRM (talk) 01:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
That's an entirely different modern-era game. Marchjuly is checking on a late 90s game. Whoops that site format is weird. I guess it does make a mention way down, but no real details but platform/release. -- ferret (talk) 01:45, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
It does mention that.
第1試合は、Nintendo Switch用ソフト『棋士・藤井聡太の将棋トレーニング』（先手）とプレイステーションで1999年に発売された『田中寅彦のウル寅流将棋 居飛車穴熊編』（後手）です。
Roughly translated as "The first round is between the Nintendo Switch software "棋士・藤井聡太の将棋トレーニング" and the PlayStation software released in 1999 "田中寅彦のウル寅流将棋 居飛車穴熊編".", it is really just a passing mention. MilkyDefer 03:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who commented. I guess all that's needed it something to verify that the game existed, when it was released, and which company created it. All that information is essentially found on the game's packaging? Is it possible to cite the game's packaging in that case? Otherwise, perhaps a game website like the Famitsu one found by IgelRM should be sufficient, right? -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Indie in lead sentence

Hello. I have recently removed Indie from the lead sentence of game articles, e.g. "Digital: A Love Story is an indie visual novel by video game designer Christine Love" . I thought this was safe enough given that this is not definable like that but was advised to ask here by Masem. Also, unlinked video game and shortened to "adventure game" etc. I also generally shorten "developed and published by" to just by Company. Regards IgelRM (talk) 01:50, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

What does "not definable" mean? I see you've removed this from numerous games that have multiple reliable sources that call it an "indie game". -- ferret (talk) 01:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
In the way that it is not like a game genre that generally belongs in the lead sentence. I have generally not removed Indie mentioning elsewhere or the category. I think the PBS Game/Show video is a great reference on the topic, but I point to having more concise lead sentences anyway. IgelRM (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
In the context of Christine Love's works, I don't mind this change as the indie nature comes through in that first sentence anyway. Perhaps paradoxically, for larger productions (like say, Shovel Knight or Celeste), I think the word "indie" would do more work in the opening section, identifying at the very least the context/movement it was created within. I understand the desire to clean out a word with a fuzzy definition, but it's so commonly used for good reasons too and we should continue to follow the reliable sources that label these games as such again and again. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
It is common used, but what is a context/movement? It appears used to categories something the audience likes. If we can attribute indie to sources, we shall include it somehow? (Missed here replying before, ideas below) IgelRM (talk) 05:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
I appreciate the rationale for reducing word count in the lede sentence, but I also think that "indie" is a strong, well used descriptor for many (but not all!) games that would fit the vague definition of indie. Eg, things like Fez, Binding if Isaac, FTL, etc, are all heralded as indie games. I agree that it is not a genre term, but usually that first sentence is where calling it out as indie seems to make the most sense. Masem (t) 15:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
I agree that indie can and should be used as a descriptor, it has a pretty clear definition that is wholly separate from major video games. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, but potentially all non-AAA games are "Indie games". Do Kerbal Space Program 2 or OlliOlli World feel like indie? Mentioning the term needs attribution like Eurogamer called it "indie" etc and that doesn't work in the first lead sentence imo.
Edit: Edge case, but we don't say Dave the Diver is a indie adventure although most publications probably said so. IgelRM (talk) 03:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
It appears that the video game world is going through the same struggle the that the music world has gone through trying to define things like indie rock. It can certainly be confusing where the line is drawn at times, but I don't believe it should be our role to remove the term. If reliable sources use the term then we probably generally should too... Sergecross73 msg me 21:26, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
I think the indie label has been added to most articles lead sentence based on what the author felt and not how many sources use the term for a game. From the indie rock articles, a lot of the bands mention there also say "rock band" and not "indie rock band".
But I suppose going through my edits again and adding what sources labeled these games as indie? IgelRM (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I think that there would need to be multiple concurrence in reliable sources when talking about the game that it is indie, and it should be almost impossible not to see "indie" next to discussion of the game. If no source says a game is indie, even if it is developed by one person and clearly mets what indie could mean, there's no reason to include. Masem (t) 04:46, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for sticking with me by the way. I'm trying to apply this to Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP (I had removed indie from lead), PC Gamer says "But it is a great indie game that’s on PC". So trying to avoid making it sound like the indie rock genre, maybe "X is an indie(efn source) and adventure game by X" or "X is an adventure and indie game(efn source) by X". Or maybe later "The game was called a great indie game". PC Gamer source IgelRM (talk) 05:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
@Masem: Bump IgelRM (talk) 07:39, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Often indie games have very different characteristics from equivalent AAA titles - e.g. an average indie RPG versus an average modern AAA one. Given that this distinction is something sources take note of, it's definitely best to retain mentions of it in the lead IMO. ― novov (t c) 02:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
We don't mention AAA role-playing game in the lead, although that might be more rare since most games would be "normal games"? Also is AAA based on budget, aren't the terms used for targeting/marketing a game and not in a review? IgelRM (talk) 03:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting doing that, just using it in my comment as a shorthand way of saying "not indie". Though ofc, that's technically incorrect as some studios are too big to be indie but aren't quite AAA. ― novov (t c) 08:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Note on Insomniac data breach

A hacker group has released tons of information they stole from Insomniac after Insomniac refused to pay their ransom. Some of this appears to include sales data for many.Dony first party games since the PS2 era. However I would strongly urge we not include any of this info unless it has been "satitized" through a reliable source. Masem (t) 22:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

It's already been added to several "Best-selling" lists and List of most expensive video games to develop, mostly through secondary sources though such as Gamingbolt. -- ferret (talk) 22:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
One of the entries is for an unannounced game, which I think we should not be including, per WP:CRYSTAL (that until its actually announced, plans for its release could change). Masem (t) 04:30, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't think it qualifies as WP:CRYSTAL if it's simply reliable sources listing it as a planned game. Just any speculation about it that isn't in the sources. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:46, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I think we just need the proper context. It shouldn't be added as fact, but as "From the leak, as reported by Eurogamer, (video game) was reported to be in development". Or something to that capacity. Sergecross73 msg me 14:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
Dev houses make plans for future games all the time but which never come to light. Until there is a clear public announcement that they have a planned game (as with Riot Games or Remedy), we should treat internal planned games as potential ones but very much suspect to CRYSTAL. Masem (t) 15:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I agree with Masem. Worst case if you want to preserve the info drafting may be a better route as if it doesn't get cancelled we'll likely see more in the next six months.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

TGA Game of the Year Award

Does the Game Award for Game of the Year count as a list or an article? — Davest3r08 >:) 16:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Since it's formatted as a table, a list. The similarly structured Academy Award for Best Actor is also considered a list. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 17:05, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured and good topic candidates/Final Fantasy series/addition1

Right, it's happened. After finally getting Final Fantasy XVI to GA status, I've nominated it for addition to the FF series topic. This is just so there's an easy link for people to follow, as I'm still new to this. I've done my best to follow the instructions. ProtoDrake (talk) 21:33, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

List of Atari 2600 games cleanup input

Fellow editor NakhlaMan woul like input on how to best cleanup this list. There's no dispute or opposing viewpoints per se, they just wanted input/consensus ahead of time since it'll likely be a large undertaking.

The article is currently split into 3 separate lists, essentially first party releases, third party releases, and homebrew games. How should cleanup be handled? Options include:

  1. Trimming out homebrew and combining the 1st/3rd party list.
  2. Combining all 3 into a single list.
  3. Do nothing - current layout is fine as is.
  4. Different approach - outline in comments

Input is appreciated! Thanks! Sergecross73 msg me 12:54, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

I hope everyone on the project has a lovely Christmas and New Year period. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Same to you. Happy Holidays everyone! Sergecross73 msg me 22:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas! Anyone want to buy me Mario Wonder? Panini! • 🥪 22:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Many yuletide greetings to the world of Wiki. --ProtoDrake (talk) 00:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Same to you. Merry Christmas! Timur9008 (talk) 06:53, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas to you all and to all good time editing!!!!! CaptainGalaxy 10:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas! QuicoleJR (talk) 17:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas. Waxworker (talk) 17:24, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! Archrogue (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas yall! Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone here. DecafPotato (talk) 21:08, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry christmas and happy holidays to y'all :D Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:21, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas to everyone. (I'm slightly late...) Skyshiftertalk 00:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Still Christmas in my part of the world! QuicoleJR (talk) 01:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas! I was very busy today. (Oinkers42) (talk) 04:06, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry belated Christmas to everyone in the VG WikiProject. Phediuk (talk) 20:52, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone working on Misplaced Pages! (its definitely Christmas at the time im writing this) MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 04:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Happy Holidays, everyone. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:18, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Video game label

I had boldly removed "video" from the lead of some recent PC only games, just using the genre like an adventure game. I feel it is misleading to call, e.g. a CRPG game a video game. It also came up that the computer game redirect was recently changed from PC game to video game.

(@Ferret: Continuing from my talk page here please) Regards IgelRM (talk) 11:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Video games include computer games, so it definitely feels wrong to remove the word "video" from these. Masem (t) 12:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
A video game is a game that has a video component, which includes computer monitors. And just think for a minute how ridiculous it is to say, for instance, King's Quest IV isn't a video game because it was computer only where as King's Quest V is because there was an NES release. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
A computer game is a "type" of video game (one released only for computers), just like a console game is a "type". Long-running convention on wiki is to refer to everything as "video games", and not change the lead sentence based on what platforms the game was released for, especially as consoles increasingly become computers with a custom UI. --PresN 15:21, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Just another editor echoing the above - computer games are video games too. Sergecross73 msg me 16:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Guidance on notability guidelines for articles about a video game series

Hi there, I've been asked by @MKsLifeInANutshell to review the draft for the Kinect Sports series at: Draft:Kinect Sports. I wanted to confirm the thinking around notability for new articles for series, as I can't find anything specific under the general notability guideline. Is my thinking correct that a series article does not inherit notability from its individual works, so that a series article should really only be considered notable if there is significant coverage, critical commentary and/or industry recognition of the series as a whole? Appreciate any thoughts. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Video games and video game series are essentially evaluated against GNG alone. There is no SNG. The series needs sources that explicitly discuss it as as series/franchise. -- ferret (talk) 21:50, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the help, I wanted to check I wasn't missing something in policy, so appreciate it. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:53, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
I think the only thing beyond the GNG is that there should be at least 3 entries to warrant a series article. There's been a pretty consistent consensus that, if there's only 2 entries, all info should probably just fall somewhere in the first or second entry's article rather than being spun out to a series article. Sergecross73 msg me 22:06, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (December 18 to December 24)

Main page: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements 
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 04:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

December 18

December 19

December 20

December 21

December 22

December 23

December 24

I'll be honest, I'll probably re-merge Ramattra in a month or two if no new discussion comes up. Zx revived it and while I appreciate the enthusiasm, I put it on ice for a reason.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:14, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
@PresN: Hey, for December 21 - Xotic, it was actually created by me, not @Zxcvbnm, the same thing happened for November 28 - Lego Ninjago: Shadow of Ronin. It was shown that @Ca had made it. Only because the page used to exist, and he just merged that previous page's history. So my name got deleted. If you check the page but put Draft: in the link, then check the history, my name would be there. MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 07:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:Lego_Ninjago:_Shadow_of_Ronin&action=history MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 07:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Same for Near (programmer) -- I think the root cause is because it was created (as a userdraft then mainspaced), then pagemoved by Zxcvbn. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 07:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
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