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Jaakobou

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Jaakobou

User requesting enforcement

Tiamut 17:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Jaakobou (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles, specifically the sections on Editors reminded and Editors Counseled.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. In this edit to Muhammad al-Durrah incident, Jaakobou reverts additions I was in the process of discussing with another editor on the talk page. Besides the summary revert, it was the edit summary I found problematic ("undo POV and muqawama apologetics.") Why?
2. I asked Jaakobou not to use the word so frequently three weeks ago here. In this extended discussion on his talk page, he agreed not to. Following his edit cited above, and given his earlier pledge, I ask him if he is trying to provoke me . I also ask him to self-revert given that he has altered unrelated content. He refuses to do so and accuses me of provoking him . To which I respond .
3. Then, in this edit to his talk page, he accuses me of provoking him by "pushing the attacking Jews is legitimate "unrest" angle" (?!?). Both another editor (RomaC ) and myself take issue with that characterization and ask him to strike. He does not, instead choosing to slightly modify his comment, justifying his personal attack by further misrepresenting my position and the article content under discussion. .
4. On the Muhammad al-Durrah incident talk page, he reuses the exact phrase that prompted me to go to his talk page in the first place, writing, "You've been editing wikipedia for long enough learn what balance is and these muqawama apologetics are inexcusable."
5. He then goes to the article Avigdor Lieberman. Citing a "soft talkpage consensus and merit-less note by Tiamut", he restores a WP:SYNTH addition that was earlier objected to by at least two other editors besides me, threatening to restart an edit war that has since abated. This singular focus on me, when I hadn't commented or edited there since December 31st (and when I wasn't the last to comment either), also comes off as WP:Hounding, which a review of some of the AE requests filed will show is an issue that has been raised previously (under the name "stalking" or "unhealthy obsession").
6. His talk page comment explaning his edit describes Hamas as an "anti-semitic muqawama group".
   
   

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Arbitration Enforcement requests involving Jaakobou (2008-2009):

1. 02.2008: AE complaint filed by Eleland re Jaakobou (No result)
2. 02.2008: AE complaint filed by Jaakobou against Number 57 (No result)
3. 02.2008: AE complaint filed by Jaakobou re Eleland (No result)
4. 02.2008: 2nd AE complant filed by Jaakobou re Eleland (Result: Jaakobou received a final warning about using AE as a weapon for block shopping)
5. 03.2008: El C's complaint regarding Jaakobou mocking of my user page contents (Result: Jaakobou apologizes and no action is taken)
6. 03.2008: Tiamut's first AE complaint re Jaakobou (Result: Jaakobou is banned from all Israel and Palestine related pages for a week for inappropriate talk page behaviour.)
7. 03.2008: Jaakobou's AE request "other editors' activity, specifically Tiamut, Nickhh, Sm8900 and Nishidani, should be given proper examination and possible sanctions should be considered when their activity is placed in comparison with my own." (Result: Discussion closed by Thatcher with "THIS ENDS NOW"]
8. 04.2008: 3rd AE complaint by Jaakobou re Eleland (No result)
9. 04/05.2008: 4th AE complaint by Jaakobou re Eleland (No result)
10. 06.2008: Pedrito's AE complaint re Jaakobou (No result)
11. 11.2008: Tiamut's second complaint at AE re Jaakobou (Result: Jaakobou given a final warning about soapboxing. While there was no clear consensus on the subject, the issue of his stalking me was raised at this time.)
12. 05.2009: SlimVirgin complaint at AE re Jaakobou (No result)
    
    

A couple of other related threads (2009):

1. 10.2009: Wikiquette alert filed by George where uninvolved commentators suggested opening an RfC to deal with racist commentary
2. 12.2009: WP:AN complaint by Jaakobou against SlimVirgin that turned into a discussion of whether or not he should be community banned

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

The problem (this time and almost every time) is inappropriate talk page behaviour and soapboxing accompanied by a WP:BATTLE attitude on Israel-Palestine related article talk pages, directed largely towards editors who edit there whose POV is not his own. (There is a case to made for WP:DE and WP:TE as well.) The solution? Perhaps a lengthy topic ban as these problems only seem to emerge in the Israel-Palestine editing arena. He has done some good work on digital media and in helping new editors by responding to their request for help.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User:Ynhockey has found a diff attesting to inappropriate talk page commentary of my own at another page from about 10 days ago. I admit that comment was needlessly belligerent and that the personal anecdote, while interesting, is not relevant to article improvement discussion. I apologize for having degraded the quality of the discussion. Tiamut 18:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

@Henrik, thank you for the clarification. I wasn't implying that Sandstein had no right to be involved. Only that I would prefer that he didn't handle the case himself. He is of course free to refuse that request. Tiamut 18:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I would also suggest to anyone reviewing this case that they take the trouble to read through at least some of the AE requests, and the two most recent threads (Wikiquette alert and WP:AN complaint). I realize it is a lot to review, but the background is relevant. Tiamut 18:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

@Pantherskin, I'm not trying to harass Jaakobou. This is the third time I've filed an AE complaint regarding his behaviour, but the first request was acted upon and the second resulted in a warning, so its not exactly like they were frivolous complaints. Its possible that I'm reading more into Jaakobou's comments than is there because of our lengthy and rather toxic history of interactions. But its also quite possible that my complaint of being hounded by him, for being a Palestinian and not sharing his POV, is a legitimate one. If you look at the AE complaints filed by El C and by me and review the Wikiquette alert, I think you will see that there is evidence for a pattern of harassment characterized by bigoted talk page commentary that is designed to push buttons. I have tried my best to ignore this over the last little while, but its happened too many times for me to just turn the other cheek. Tiamut 19:14, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Question to the admins watching this page: Are the normal rules of engagement suspended at AE? Because in the comments below by editors (four of whom I have had content disagreements with), I see an awful lot of bad faith speculation bordering on personal attacks, with a dash of soapboxing just to spice it up a little. I'm trying to be gracious, but its gotten a little out of hand, no? Tiamut 21:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

@Ynhockey, "bigoted talk page commentary" is a fair description, given the conclusions made by uninvolved editors in this Wikiquette alert. Tiamut 14:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

@Sandstein, as to why the use of "muqawama" is a problem, as Gatoclass perceptively points out, to Jaakobou, the term is equivalent to "terrorism". So when he is calling me a "muqawama apologist", he is actually calling me an apologist for terrorism. Much as Okedem, in his comments, suggest I am a Hamas apologist. These are bad faith assumptions as to my motive in editing and amount to personal attacks. Furthermore, when he uses the term three time in two days, after he agreed not to use it three weeks previous, it is, as Gatoclass notes, a form of harassment. Tiamut 14:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

@Cptnono, I started User:Tiamut/muqawama after discussions with Jaakobou made it clear that it was being misconceived as solely a synonym for terrorism. It actually covers a wide spectrum of resistance actions, as you can read there (its still a work in progress though). As for the res of your comment, I would once again like to remind you to stop using my user page (or identity) as evidence of bad faith on my part, as you have in the past .

While Jaakobou claims that my primary contributions to the Avigdor Lieberman article have been to revert him, a quick review of my edits there will show this description is rather incomplete, as I made an effort to forge compromise formulations, and participated heavily on talk to that end. A review of Jaakobou's last 6 article edits there, show that 4 were either wholly or essentially reverts to include the words "which advocates the destruction of Israel", after the words "Hamas". This sentence fragment was first added by Jaakobou on April 9, 2009 , with the edit summary "rm death sentence hyperbole and clarify the context of Hamas' agenda with the accusation of treason". Please note that the source cited does not use these words to describe Hamas, and reports without mincing words that Lieberman explicitly called for the execution of Arab MKs who met wih Hamas.

With the alteration of his statement here, Jaakobou also accuses me of using "a euphemism" to describe violence against Jews at the Muhammad al-Durrah incident. This is a misleading statement that assumes bad faith, despite the fact that I explained the reasons for my change of "rioting" to "unrest" in the lead of the article on the talk page. Please further note that the sentence in question is not explicitly discussing violence against Jews, but rather refers to the general climate on the day that Muhammad al-Durrah, a 12-year old boy, was shot and killed. That said, I have no intention of whitewashing anything, and in light of the substance of Jaakobou's edits to the Avigdor Lieberman article, such an accusation seems rather hypocritical. Tiamut 20:07, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Jaakobou

Statement by Jaakobou

For starters, I couldn't have hounded Tiamut to Muhammad al-Durrah incident, where I've contributed over 160 edits while she contributed less than 15. The same goes for the Israeli politician (Avigdor Lieberman) page where I've made about 150 edits while her contributions amount to 6; mostly reverts on the Hamas descriptive.

I have found Tiamut to be disruptive and confrontational on multiple Israel-related articles recently. If it were this anti-Zionist/Israel commentary on the Israel talkpage here, or a pro-Hamas/Hezbollah (antisemitic organizations) attitude on talkpages and article space (see above) and her userpage.

Also, Tiamut is making a very serious misrepresentation here on arbitration enforcement by neglecting to mention vital information.

• "This is the third time I've filed an AE complaint regarding his behaviour, but the first request was acted upon and the second resulted in a warning"

In the second case she filed, there were 5 admins objecting any action, supporting that my conduct was well within proper etiquette and PhilKnight's quick move to ignore them and file a warning to me was just as quickly noted as a faulty assessment of the case by two other admins. Similar misrepresentations occur too often whenever Tiamut mentions me which makes for a very uncomfortable feeling.

Tiamut is also erroneous in her understanding of Arabic. 'Muqawama' is a culture of popular sentiments and not "actions" as she states here. Knowing the full breadth of cultural meaning behind the term, I do not use is as a synonym for terrorism. It is an extremely common term and there's nothing to take offense from its usage. My use of the word "apologetics" in reference to an edit I was in strong disagreement with was probably not optimal though. Tiamut inserted an inherently improper euphemism - here 12 - for assaults made on Jews in Israel by Palestinians (Second Intifada) and I was trying to make a clear and precise note of the issue without writing endlessly about it.

This complaint seems to be about a wiki-hounding and harassment claims over two articles Tiamut barely touched and a common Palestinian terminology used in reference to content discussions. The complaint uses a big list of events from as far as 2 years ago, most of which between me and banned editors -- friends of Tiamut. This list neglects samples where Tiamut was warned by 2 uninvolved admins for improper behavior and her being chastised by 2 other high profile contributors (both are admins as well) for poor talkpage conduct. Putting these together, I feel some form of breach of the final decision had occurred.

Comment regarding Gatoclass' notes:
Gatoclass interprets bad faith not just with me but also with Cptonio as can be seen here. The keeping of close contacts between Tiamut and Gatoclass can be observed here. Gatoclass, who shares the same POV as Tiamut, made superficial observation into my comments. Defending a friend is a valiant act and I think everyone should have friends like you, Gatoclass, but there is no history of harassment here. Certainly not on articles Tiamut has barely touched and almost exclusively to revert me, at that.

Comments by others about the request concerning Jaakobou

Comment by Sandstein

This request lacks a signature and a notification diff and cannot be processed. It is strongly recommended to use the template {{Sanction enforcement request}} for such requests, as instructed in the header. Also, the specific remedy that was violated or under which action is requested should be cited if possible.  Sandstein  17:19, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi there. I tried to to use template, but the coding would not work for me. I left all the text therein as is (there was no diff of notification field, but I've added it now). Give me a second to point to the exact remedy. In the past, we only had to cite the case and the other AE request that garnered warnings to have a request considered. Tiamut 17:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay I've added them. And Sandstein, I hope you don't take offense to this, but given that we had a pretty heated run in with one another over Nableezy's case and it wasn't that long ago, I'd appreciate it if someone else handled this request. However, your opinion, should you care to share it, is more than welcome. Thanks. Tiamut 17:32, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, there is no "case", as such, to be handled by one person; enforcement actions are individual actions and if I do not respond to this request, another administrator may or vice versa. But if you do not want my assistance with your request, that is certainly your prerogative.  Sandstein  19:15, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Again, I'm sorry if I've offended you with my request. Perhaps it was ill-advised. As I said above, your comments would be welcome. I just felt that in case there was any lingering bad feelings about how I handled your response to the request against Nableezy, it might be better if someone else took up this request. Forgive my impetuosity. Tiamut 19:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've looked at the evidence that Tiamut provided and honestly don't know what ought to be done. Much seems to turn around the use of the word "muqawama", apparently translating to "resistance" and possibly having the connotation of "terrorism", but since I don't speak Arabic (or Hebrew) I don't really understand what the problem with the use of that word is. Arbitration enforcement is neither a venue for resolving content disagreements nor is it a substitute for dispute resolution. As to conduct issues, the only thing that's evident is that Tiamut and Jaakobou have a long history of conflict, but I can't tell who (if anybody) bears most of the blame for that. I can't immediately think of an enforcement measure that would be appropriate to the situation. My inclination would be to refer both editors to dispute resolution, but if these conflicts continue, a mutual interaction ban or something similar might be considered.  Sandstein  06:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Thomasbraun321

I went to thank Jaakobou for some help on a link I wanted to add and noticed a link here. A look at Tiamut's personal page goes to show that they are organized to provoke anti-Isreali emotions, with links to articles hostile to Israel and some Palestinian apologetics, not based on facts. IMO, Jaakobou is 100% correct reintroducing the text he did and that Tiamut is pushing propaganda by suggesting that attacks on Jews are 'unrest' and then he complains against Jaakobou after the talkpage comments support Jaakobou. That is not an attitude of respect for historical truth and promotion of peace through mutual understanding. Lies will never enable peace. Thomasbraun321 (talk) 17:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Ynhockey

It appears that Tiamut is trying to turn a content dispute into another attempt to ban Jaakobou, just so that in the next attempt it would be possible to add another diff of "look, he was complained against so many times, so he must be doing something wrong" (note also that some of those complaints were made by banned editors). None of the "offending" diffs Tiamut posted break any policy, and the only traces of soapboxing I can see are actually in discussions between Tiamut and Jaakobou on user talk. By contrast, Tiamut does her share of soapboxing and often displays belligerent behavior on article talk. Here's one recent amusing example. Someone who makes a comment like that doesn't really have room to complain against problematic talk page behavior. —Ynhockey 18:17, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Further comment: It appears that now Tiamut is calling Jaakobou a racist bigot, hopefully this makes it clear who has a WP:BATTLE attitude (emphasis mine):

But its also quite possible that my complaint of being hounded by him, for being a Palestinian and not sharing his POV, is a legitimate one. If you look at the AE complaints filed by El C and by me and review the Wikiquette alert, I think you will see that there is evidence for a pattern of harassment characterized by bigoted talk page commentary that is designed to push buttons.

— User:Tiamut,

Although, it is possible that I'm reading more into Tiamut's comments than is there because of our lengthy and rather toxic history of interactions.(copied comment) I apologize if my comment transmits a WP:BATTLE attitude of my own, but I felt it was important to show the doublespeak involved here. —Ynhockey 00:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Henrik

Note: I've reformatted this request into using the standard format for readability. I will wait for further statements before expressing an opinion.

@Tiamut: As a general matter, having taken previous actions in arbitration enforcement cases does not mean that you are disqualified from taking actions in other cases involving the same editor or group of editors. If errors have been made, they can be addressed in appeals, which will be closed and reviewed by other administrators. henrik•talk 18:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Jiujitsuguy

I am an uninvolved editor having never edited the article or articles in question. I have reviewed Tiamut’s complaint and I believe that it is baseless, grounded in bad faith and wholly without merit. Rather than being based on a legitimate grievance, Tiamut’s complaint appears to be an insidious attempt to censor content and silence Jaakobou simply because his view does not comport with hers.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 18:47, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Pantherskin

I doubt that anything can be worked out here. Whether Jakoubou violated the spirit of remedy 4) and 5) is apparently in the eye of the beholder. There is no clear-cut violation, and it seems that his main offence was having a strong point of view. That of course is not forbidden, in fact it can be helpful in ensuring balance and quality in controversial topic areas. What I see though is a pattern of using arbcom enforcement request to harass one's opponents, thus ironically being in violation of the exact principles that are invoked in these requests.--Pantherskin (talk) 19:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Okedem

I've seen nothing in the diffs that breaks any rules. Jaakobou sometimes uses strong language, but often that cannot be avoided. I find Tiamut's sixth claim particularly amusing (regarding ); is Tiamut here to defend Hamas' honor? The people who so often sent suicide bombers into buses and restaurants? This organization's charter cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and in article seven, clearly calls for the murder of all Jews ("the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."). Are we supposed to call them "freedom fighters" or something? I think that claim puts Tiamut's complaint in the proper light. okedem (talk) 21:02, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding "muqawama" - I find it particularly troubling that Tiamut is trying to create the impression that the word "muqawama" is derogatory or biased. It is not a term like "terrorist", applied to some groups, which vehemently dispute it ("we're freedom fighters"). It is a word used by the people themselves, in a positive connotation (from their perspective). In fact, to call Hamas a "muqawama group" is even quite redundant - as their article can tell us, Hamas is "an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement"". Al-Manar, Hezbollah's TV station, calls itself "qanat al-muqawama" ("Station of the Resistance"). A couple of very simple examples for context - an Al Jazeera opinion column, praising the Muqawama, and an article explaining Hamas' rage when the Palestinian Authority dropped the word as a core principle. To pretend this word is derogatory is insulting to all of us. okedem (talk) 08:04, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Cptnono

I'm not seeing anything actionable in the differences provided. It appears to be two editors getting on eachothers' nerves. The one concern I see is the use of edit summaries to make comments that come across inflammatory. Jaakobou (along with everyone else) should take care to not use edit summaries to make a point. A quick reminder and some monitoring should suffice.

I can't tell if "muqawama" is a dirty word or not. A quick Google search shows Tiamut's subpage that does not make it look all that bad. He also refrained from using muqawama in regards to Tiamut and was instead applying it to a group that might be (I haven't watched the video so don't know). I see nothing wrong with the other differences. An editor is allowed to make edits even if others are discussing or have discussed it previously. I didn't see any edit warring or blatant (enough to require AE) breaches of content guidelines.

Although turning this around to blame Tiamut might be appealing: this AE is regarding Jaakobou. He is accountable for is own actions. I think Tiamut should take notice of all the editors counter punching though. An editing style that draws so much criticism might mean something.Cptnono (talk) 02:02, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

@FormerIP. I'm not terribly familiar with it. Maybe it is like Zionist where it can be used with a derogatory tone but is not necessarily? I guess it would be helpful if Jaakobou explained its connotation in the last edit difference mentioned. A little more caution/using something else if the term comes up in the future would be good.Cptnono (talk) 04:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Striking out bits after Okedem's explanation. Continuing to call Tiamut an apologist might be a bad idea but using in reference to a potentially related group seems to be just fine.Cptnono (talk) 08:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Tiamut has an infobox on her userpage supporting violent resistance and a sandbox creating an article based on the term. "muqawama apologetics" was inappropriate but I can't say I blame him for feeling that way. I think FormerIP is right on. It can come across offensive and it is easy enough to not use it. The same should go for those that use Zionist in a way that may be perceived as derogatory but that strays a little to far off topic for here.

The other diffs still don't jump out at me as being actionable.Cptnono (talk) 14:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Several people have expressed concerns over the user page recently. It doesn't matter why she has it the way she does it matters that it encourages a battlefield mentality amongst users. That is something for a another AE. I was simply pointing out that Jaakobou has reason to think she is apologetic to the cause (I unintentionally misrepresented him there since it was her edit that he was pointing too). After learning more trough my AE, I understand that it is not OK to make such a charge but I honestly don't see how any objective person can fault him to the extent Tiamut is attempting here.Cptnono (talk) 00:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I have to apologize for misrepresenting Jaakobou. I am also truly not trying to pin the blame on Tiamut. However, I do believe her actions should be considered in the conflict especially if a sanction is imposed on Jaakobou. I think both editors should steer clear of strong words just to be extra careful.Cptnono (talk) 02:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by FormerIP

It does seem to me that "muqawama" is meant here as a derogatory epithet and it is reasonable for Tiamut to object.

Regarding Cptnono's comment based on looking at her subpage - yes, but it is not entirely clear what the subpage is for. The term appears to me to have a literal Arabic meaning "resistance" and a different meaning as an adopted term in English, which is more akin to "terrorist", perhaps with additional connotations of ignorance and dogma thrown in (happy to be reliably corrected on this).

Whilst Jaakobou has repeated the epithet, it is not entirely clear (AFAICT) that he has subsequently directed it at Tiamut in particular. However, given Tiamut's objection, I can't see why repeated use of the term is helpful. Perhaps the issue could be resolved by Jaakobou agreeing to use English where English will do. --FormerIP (talk) 02:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

@okedem and cptnono. Yes, clearly the word itself is widely used in the context of Palestinian politics. However, it also seems to be used in English to describe a certain type of mindset . I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem widely used to denote a factional tendancy or similar except when it is used in English, in which sense it seems to be used mainly in sources that can broadly be described as "anti-Palestinian". So, it looks to me similar to "Jihadi" or "Zionist" (as suggested above) - capable of being applied neutrally, but also capable of being derisory. --FormerIP (talk) 12:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Gatoclass

Jaakobou has a history of harassment with Tiamut, most notably with his parroting of an image Tiamut left on her talkpage that almost got him sitebanned. Tiamut apparently feels Jaakobou is using the word "muqawama" as a euphemism for "terrorism", and Jaakobou's own comments regarding the term indicate that is the case. Accusing Tiamut of "muqawama apologetics" is thereby equivalent to accusing her of "terrorist apologetics" which is a clear breach of WP:CIVIL. I think Jaakobou needs to stick to his commitment not to use this term, which is not at all necessary since there are plenty of English alternatives that do not carry such offensive overtones. Continuing to do so after repeatedly being asked not to is going to look very much like another case of harassment in my opinion. Gatoclass (talk) 14:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Cptnono, the userbox on Tiamut's page to which you refer was placed on a number of userpages a long time ago, as a means of expressing solidarity with a user who was told to remove a more explicitly political userbox. It's been there a long time, on a number of userpages, with no-one complaining about it, and your bringing it up in relation to this case can only serve to deflect attention from the issue at hand. Gatoclass (talk) 15:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and one other thing. Jiujitsuguy, please don't describe yourself as an "uninvolved editor" when your editing history demonstrates otherwise. As you ought to know by now, "uninvolved" on this project does not mean "I haven't edited this particular article in the topic area yet." Gatoclass (talk) 15:27, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Jaakobou

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

First of all: This is not a discussion of Tiamut's behavior. If an editor other than Jaakobou has breached provisions of an arbitration case, open a separate enforcement case. Otherwise take it to a dispute resolution forum.

After having read this, I'm inclined to close this as not actionable. While Jaakobou's remarks did not reach the collegial nature I would expect of wikipedia editors, the cited remarks don't reach the severity where blocks or sanctions are merited. I would strongly urge Jaakobou to not use the term muqawama, and instead choose to use English terms, with more plain meanings. Likewise avoid discussing the outside motivations of editors and organizations.

For what it is worth, I read the AN debate here as having a rough consensus for a three month topic ban, but it appears to never have been enacted. I would, again, urge Jaakobou to reconsider his editing approach, and preferably try to be a model of civility and collegiality, even and especially with editors with background and views from the other side of the I-P conflict. While individual cases and posts may sometimes not be individually actionable, a large number of cases of borderline conduct can over time amount to grounds for sanctions.

I will await any comments from colleagues. If none are forthcoming, I intend to close this as no action in a reasonable timespan. henrik•talk 15:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Having followed this since it was opened, I am inclined to agree with your assessment, henrik, and second your recommendation for closing with no action. Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 17:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree as well and endorse the above recommendations.  Sandstein  17:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Michaeljefferson

Thank you, Cirt (talk) 19:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Verbal

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Verbal

User requesting enforcement

Ludwigs2 22:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Verbal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Verbal has been engaged in a tendentious effort to prevent development of the article, using multiple reversions, refactoring of talk page contents, and a general refusal to participate on the talk page. I have made several requests for participation, and asked/warned him about problematic behavior, all to no avail.

incidences of reverts without explanation:

1. Verbal - first reversion of article, just to demonstrate that this goes back before my arrival on the page
2. Verbal - reverted to remove dispute tags
3. Verbal - reverted to remove dispute tags again
4. Verbal - reverting content, and removing dispute tags yet again
5. Verbal - reverting content, and removing dispute tags once more
6. Verbal - last removal of dispute tags (to date)

Talk page actions

1. refactoring my talk page comments
2. requesting reason for POV tag, which (as you can see) I gave
3. tendentious and non-productive commentary
4. re-adding tendentious and non-productive commentary after another editor refactored it
5. The entirety of Verbal's justification for removing the dispute tag the last time

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

in edit summaries- these are only the requests I made directly after verbal removed the tags; there are at least two other requests aimed more genearlly or to other editors

1. warning in edit summary that continued removal of dispute tags would result in enforcement request
2. warning in edit summary that continued removal of dispute tags would result in enforcement request

In his talk page

1. first entry in a talk page conversation where I repeated ly ask him to refrain from reverting changes without engaging in talk page discussion
2. second entry in a talk page conversation where I repeated ly ask him to refrain from reverting changes without engaging in talk page discussion
3. third and final entry in a talk page conversation where I repeated ly ask him to refrain from reverting changes without engaging in talk page discussion

Similar behavior on Atropa Belladonna

1. undiscussed reversion
2. second undiscussed reversion

only contribution to talk page was this:

despite the fact that I explicitly requested comment from him here:

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

I would like to ask for the following sanctions

• That verbal be barred from editing Alternative medicine for a period of one month, so that the current content dispute can be resolved in timely and productive fashion.
• That verbal be generally warned that tendentious editing of this type is unacceptable, with a statement that continuing such behavior will result in stronger punishments.
• That verbal be specifically warned against the removal of dispute tags without proper discussion.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

There are several editors involved in the current debate on the talk page, and while the process is not entirely smooth, all of the rest of us are participating in talk and moving the process along. only Verbal refuses to participate in that fashion, and the clear pattern of disruptive reversions, refactoring, and other poor editing practices speaks to a specific problem with his attitude.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notification of request

Discussion concerning Verbal

Statement by Verbal

Comments by others about the request concerning Verbal

Please comment only in your own section.

Statement by Hipocrite

Statement by Sandstein

I have, as an administrator working at AE, inserted these subheaders to limit threaded discussion. Please consider that AE is not a part of dispute resolution and is not a forum to discuss content disputes or broader philosophical issues. Any statements should be narrowly focused on the contested conduct by Verbal and whether or not administrators should take arbitration enforcement action against him. Other statements may be removed or collapsed by administrators, as I did with Hipocrite's contribution above.  Sandstein  06:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Stmrlbs

as per Henrik's request for more comments from the other involved editors, I think Ludwigs2 main problem with Verbal is his pattern of reverting without discussion. Then when Verbal does come to discussion, it is in a very "combative" point of view, instead of in a way that is helps to come to some kind of consensus. If you notice, Verbal's first action on the talk page after his reverts was to "refactor" (a nice way to say remove) Ludwigs2's comments - a combative move - and yet Verbal still did not add any comments of his own to the discussion until 2 days later . Verbal has been warned about reverting without discussion (or ignoring discussion) before in other areas . The other editors recently involved in editing alternative medicine (including me) did revert each other, but the reverts were followed by discussion. I think the other editors were trying to follow WP:BRD. stmrlbs|talk 00:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Statement by BullRangifer

We're dealing with an editor (Ludwigs2) who has a long block log for doing exactly what they have been doing now.

This is a case of a pusher of fringe POV (Ludwigs2) refusing to engage in collaborative editing, but instead waging a war on two fronts: (1) continuing to make highly disputed edits after they had been reverted by multiple editors, while (2) carrying on a very unpleasant series of stonewalling discussions. This made reversion the only avenue left by other editors. We couldn't keep up with discussing a number of issues raised by the continued use of the article itself as a battleground. BRD means that contested edits should not be made again, and again, and again. Ludwigs2 seemed to think that carrying on a discussion gave them the right to continue to make controversial edits while the discussions were in progress, even though they weren't finished or any consensus was reached. That is wrong and it was explained to them repeatedly with no success. In fact, at one point Ludwigs2 actually stated "I don't honestly care" if their manner of edit warring had upset me.

Basically we're dealing with a disruptive editor who is accusing one of those who was attempting to stop an edit war. We tried to simply revert back to the longstanding stable version and get Ludwigs2 to stop edit warring and stick to discussing. Only then could we come up with a consensus version of any changes that might need to be made. Here's how I explained it in this section:

The key word is "discussing". Discussion is good, but making changes without consensus is counterproductive. Be patient. Making changes to the lead is always a sensitive issue because changes there are supposed to reflect changes to the actual content of the article. Yes, wordings in the lead can be written awkwardly or poorly and can be improved, but substantive changes need a very solid consensus based on changes in the body of the article.

Have you noticed the references section at the bottom of this talk page? It's there for a reason. It's there so that editors can copy (NOT edit) questioned content from the article and together with editors who hold opposing POV work on revising it here. Only after there is a consensus does the new version get used to replace the old version. That's what's known as collaborative editing. It takes a lot of good faith and the ability to write for the opponent. While that may grate on one's nerves, at least enable it.

My major objection to this latest debacle has been regarding process rather than content. When consensus gets violated, all hell breaks loose. We need to avoid edit wars. This article has been quite stable for some time until a newbie came along and boldly removed content they didn't like. It was restored and they did it again. That started an edit war and I rebooted the situation so we can start collaborative editing. I'm perfectly willing to discuss changes, but do it here, not by making controversial edits. -- Brangifer (talk) 15:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

and in a reply to User:Gandydancer, whose repeated deletions without discussion started the whole debacle:

I will commend you for then doing the right thing. You stopped editing and have stuck to discussing. That's the right thing to do, in contrast to Ludwigs2 and Stmrlb. They have continued to edit war, instead of to exclusively discuss. That's very unwikipedian and a blockable offense. Ludwigs2 knows this, as their long block log can attest.

The existence of a discussion doesn't give a right to make an edit or press forward with a deletion. That violates the BRD cycle. The discussion should proceed until a consensus has been reached before making more edits. This whole thing has been characterized by the idea (applied by Ludwigs2) that making controversial changes is okay as long as a discussion is in process. That's not collaborative editing. That's edit warring. It is only the successful resolution of the discussion, resulting in an agreement, that allows editing to begin again.

That's why I rebooted back to the pre edit war status and encouraged a discussion on each point of discussion, even providing subsections for doing so. As each point is discussed and a consensus emerges, we can make ONE edit that we can all agree upon and defend and mark that section as "resolved", then move on to the next section. I am very disappointed to see that Ludwigs2 has reverted back to the tactics that led to their numerous blocks for edit warring, and I fear that will have to happen again. I have repeatedly asked for the edit warring to stop and to stick to only discussing things. Only after a consensus emerges should edits be made.

Rather than arguing about content right now, I want to get a statement from Ludwigs2 as to whether the process I describe is a reasonable one or not. I want a promise from Ludwigs2 that they will stick to discussion and not wage a war on two fronts, one on this talk page and one simultaneously on the article. -- Brangifer 07:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Ludwigs2 hasn't yet given me such a promise.

Then Ludwigs2 replied in a very uncollaborative manner:

Brangifer: I'm sorry that you object to the process we've been using, but I don't honestly care. I suggest that you stop reverting, stop explaining why we can't make changes to the page, and start discussing the changes we are trying to make. the first two are non-productive; the second might get us somewhere. I've made multiple comments on this talk page that you have not yet addressed; do you want to start with those? --Ludwigs2 18:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

To which I replied:

You should care. You aren't the only editor here, and you don't own this article. If you're not willing to care, then stop edit warring, leave the editing table, and find something else to do. I have a real life and it's impossible to fight an edit war on two fronts. You're demanding discussion of controversial edits that should not have been made at all. It's impossible to keep up with such a situation, which necessitates reversion of multiple edits. Since those edits shouldn't have been made, it's proper to do that. Above I'm proposing an alternative to edit warring and I hope you will promise to accept it. It's nothing other than standard practice required by our policies. I'm asking you to abide by them, and I want promises from you. -- Brangifer (talk) 07:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I hope this reveals the "other side of the story" here. This whole complaint is not only frivolous, but an abuse of the proper use of this page. I had already been tempted to file an AN/I complaint about the edit warring by Ludwigs2, but being a patient man, I was hoping that appeals might help. Instead Ludwigs2 made this frivolous complaint. Therefore I will do what I would have done if I had filed the complaint. I request that Ludwigs2 be spanked with a wet noodle and topic banned from alternative medicine topics for a period of time. Ludwigs2 should get the same and greater a "punishment" than they are requesting against Verbal in light of the frivolous nature of their complaint. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Page protection is a good thing in light of the fact that Ludwigs2 was refusing to stop making very controversial and disputed edits to the article. That article has previously been a war zone and they were rekindling old flames which we were trying to put out. Discussion alone is the way forward, not an endless repetition of disputed edits that violate BRD and BATTLE. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I note that Henrik and I share exactly the same POV regarding collaborative editing:

• " As soon as it was clear that there was opposition to a content change, editing should stop .."

I had repeatedly tried to get Ludwigs2 to understand this point, but without success. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Verbal

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I am inclined, as a preliminary preventative measure, to block both Verbal and Ludwigs2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for the recently ongoing edit-warring on Alternative medicine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). If no other admin objects, I'll do so as soon as Verbal has had an opportunity to make a statement above.  Sandstein  06:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not going to insert myself administratively; I see I've edited this article as recently as 18 January. That said, it seems to me that the dispute is more than bilateral - both BullRangifer (talk · contribs) and Stmrlbs (talk · contribs) have also reverted the disputed content in the past day or so - and so page protection might be a better option than individual blocks. But it's your call (or at least, not mine). MastCell  21:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I have currently protected the page to help ensure that none of the involved parties would continue, but without prejudice towards any other measures replacing the protection. I would not be opposed to an action such as Sandstein proposed: protection prevents all editors from editing it, blocks only prevent individual editors. Feel free to unprotect when other measures have been taken. henrik•talk 23:23, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Tothwolf

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Tothwolf

User requesting enforcement

Theserialcomma (talk) 23:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Tothwolf (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tothwolf/Proposed decision#1.1 "uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, Tothwolf may be blocked for the duration specified in the enforcement ruling below."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

{{{Diffs of edits that violate it, and an explanation how they do so}}}

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

{{{Diffs of prior warnings}}}

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

block, and topic ban from ever emailing me via wikipedia again. he doesn't have my email address, so the only way he can contact me is via wikipedia. he should not attempt to email me again.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Today Tothwolf has contacted me off-wiki via wikipedia email with some sort of paranoid threat, accusing me of being someone named "Toner" and/or "V".

I'm incapable and unwilling to deal with paranoid/delusional and threatening ideations on or off wiki. The exact quote from Tothwolf to my email is "Toner, (or do you prefer V?) you've been told over and over to leave me alone and I suggest you take their advice and disengage." I am forwarding the email to arbcom and the clerks mailing list right now.

This is a blatant violation of arbcom's findings. He is not welcome to contact me via wikipedia email to make delusional speculations as to my identity.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.

]

Discussion concerning Tothwolf

Statement by Tothwolf

Comments by others about the request concerning Tothwolf

Result concerning Tothwolf

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I do not believe that this request is actionable. First, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tothwolf is not yet closed; this means that its proposed decision is not yet enforceable. Any conduct relevant to that case should be brought to the arbitrators' attention so that they may consider taking it into account in their decision. Second, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tothwolf/Proposed decision#Tothwolf restricted reads in relevant part: "Should Tothwolf make any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith ...", emphasis mine. An e-mail is not an edit.  Sandstein  07:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)