Misplaced Pages

Corrected RFA --> AFD, as I'm sure that's what Pgk meant, and I *really* don't want to have to deal with the effects of what a misreading of the statment could do at RfA. Essjay (Talk) 00:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Haha, better than that, has an anon ever tried to close an RfA? I'm sure it would be User:69.145.123.171 if ir was anyone...... The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's no big deal......I won't make any block decisions unless I become an admin, it's not in my power to unblock or protect a talkpage from attacks if the user goes bad. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 16:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

As a non-admin, I posted a couple denials:

1. Case 1: Vandal continued to vandalize articles, after test4, I requested an admin to block, and I posted the blockmessage. When the user requested an unblock, I contacted the admin who performed the block and decided to deny the unblock, so I responded to the unblock request.
2. Case 2: User requests unblock multiple time while I and admins are on rcpatrol. I report the unblock request reason, they deny it, and I post the unblock deny on that user's talkpage on behalf of the admins. This case was brought up in my RfA.

I'd say, the best course of action would be to play it safe and only do so if you have an admin backing you up and willing to vouch for the unblock deny on your behalf. ~Kylu (u|t) 21:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Hunter91

Hi, I have a problem which encompasses a question on policy. As you'll see here, , Hunter91 (talk · contribs) feels that I'm incorrect in some of my advice to him and my actions in an AfD (all of my correspondance has been deleted from his talk page, but with history: ). He's removed votes from an AfD, claiming that they were by sockpuppets and he left no comment on the AfD discussion . He also changed my nomination, leaving no comment. The users he has labelled as sockpuppets have no warnings for sockpuppetry on their talk pages. From what I can see, the user has a history of removing comments which conflict with his beliefs on the article talk page Talk:Battle_Field_2 like here. I feel that this user is distrupting wikipedia (to an extent), and am trying to get in contact with an admin to see if they can/will do anything about it. The response I'm hoping for is a kind word to Hunter91 and a revert of his edits to the afd page (Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Battle_Field_2). Thanks Martinp23 20:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• Do not alter other people's comments. If he thinks they belong to sockpuppets, he should add a note to the discussion for the closing admin, but removing AFD comments or nominations without leaving comments is not acceptable. - Mgm| 22:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I am with Martin. I voted for the 'Delete' of the article, and then he comments saying that the vote was done by a sock puppet! I am most certainly not a sock puppet! I also commented against the article in the discussion page, but he deleted my comment. He's then accusing everyone of being vandals. If you compare the article of Battle Field 2 to Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, there's a huge difference. You gotta help. Seriphyn 20:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I re-added a delete vote that he had removed and then he accused me of being a "sockpuppet and a vandal" - someone might want to have a polite word. --Charlesknight 21:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

PoV Edit War

ED209 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and JohnnyCanuck (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) have been continuously adding PoV comments to both Michael Di Biase and Vaughan municipal election, 2006. Myself and a number of other editors have attempted to reason with them, to no avail. Discussions on both article talk pages have shown that the only people who believe the information should be included are the two users mentioned above. Every other objective editor believes that they have no place in the articles. Could someone step in and make a definitive ruling please? These people have demonstrated they have no interest in abiding by community consensus. Thanks - pm_shef 22:54, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Di Biase had three consecutive traffic tickets 'misplaced' by the police, and this was suspicious enough for the Toronto Star and the local newspaper to report. How does a ticket just vanish? This would be a lucky coincidence for most people, but when it involves the allegedly corrupt Mayor of the allegedly most corrupt council in Canada, luck may not be involved. Energyblue 17:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Also where is this so called "community consensus"? If you go to the , you'll see that only one person agrees with Pm_shef, and that's JamesTeterenko. Bearcat says that he has "no strong opinion about whether the traffic incidents belong in the article" and CJCurrie writes "I don't have any strong opinions about Michael Di Biase, and I'm willing to grant that the information could perhaps be presented in a neutral and encyclopedic manner." The question is, is pm_shef, the son on Vaughan Councillor Alan Shefman, capable of writing objectively about City Hall? Energyblue 17:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• PLEASE NOTE, Energyblue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is most likely a sockpuppet of User:VaughanWatch. - pm_shef 20:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Citing own material in which financial interest exists

On the Attachment Therapy page user JeanMercer continues to add as a reference a book she wrote with two others, Sarner and his spouse, Rosa. Mercer receives royalties for this and is a leader of the advocacy group Advocates for Children in Therapy, which financially benefits from the book sales. She has been warned once about this and I put a note on her talk page as a second warning. I'd appreciate your advice and interventionn here. RalphLender 23:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It's bad form, but is it against policy? How is the book regarded by others? Would it ever be cited by someone not involved with it? Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

If it's self-published (or otherwise small circulation), it's not considered a reliable source. --InShaneee 00:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not self-published, but was brought out by Praeger, an imprint of Greenwood. This is an academic press that provides initial expert review, developmental review, and professional editing services. Jacket comments were provided by Elizabeth Loftus and Frederick Crews, and there is a series forward by Hiram Fitzgerald of the World Association for Infant Mental Health (the series was Child Psychology and Mental Health). This book was cited by the APSAC task force in 2006 with respect to the use of Attachment Therapy. However, as is the case for many serious books, the royalties have been very small-- I would suppose each author has realized no more than $200 from the book in the three years it has been out, rather less than it took to prepare the ms.. This is in fact the only single publication that gives a thorough analysis of the topic, and that is why I cite it.

I could, of course, avoid being the subject of such complaints if I did not reveal my identity, but I consider it important for people to know who is speaking about a subject so relevant to the well-being of children and families.

Incidentally, I applaud the distinction made by InShanee between self-published and other material, but I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that today there are a number of what one might call "printer-ready publishers" who provide none of the services of a company like Praeger, but permit authors to avoid having their work tagged "self-published." Such publishers add complexity to the existing problem of identifying authoritative information without careful reading and analysis.Jean Mercer 13:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

This belongs on the article discussion page, not ANI. Phr (talk) 01:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Zereshk Internal Spamming

The user has been internally spamming to try and get a favorable outcome on this afd. Don't attempt to sway consensus by encouraging participation in a discussion by people that you already know have a certain point of view. (Misplaced Pages:Spam) --Jersey Devil 01:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm rolling back as many 'notices' as I can, and issuing a stern warning to Zereshk. However, it appears he's also been busy trolling for meatpuppets, which I think deserves looking into seperately. --InShaneee 02:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I honestly think that a temporary block is neccessary here, this kind of action isn't going to stop with a warning on his talk page and will just be brushed off. I also don't think it is fair to the rest of us who want a fair afd process and who do not resort to this action to get keep votes on afds.--Jersey Devil 02:41, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

As I said, I've removed the messages. He's not currently spamming, and unless he starts again, he's not going to be blocked. --InShaneee 02:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

If he starts up again, do what you have to do, with my support. --Tony Sidaway 03:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Note that he was also doing it externally, on the Persian Misplaced Pages: . And I've been told there are precedents of similar behaviour: , . -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for informing us on that I am going to tell InShanee in his talk page.--Jersey Devil 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Those posts all belong to the period before Zereshk was asked to stop spamming other pages. --Aminz 06:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Another question, and an important one: Zereshk has now vowed to continue spamming off-site, which of course he can't be caught in the act as easily. Any suggested course of action? --InShaneee 16:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty certain he's been doing just that anyway, in similar earlier cases too. And his behaviour is being rewarded: there are in fact around a dozen new keep votes on that AfD by now, almost all from Iranian users. It's exactly this sort of behaviour that has made pages like Misconceptions about the Shi'a (even worse piece of POV writing) survive up to three successive AfD's, apparently. Probably nothing much than an Arbcom ban would be able to stop him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've issued a 48 hour block for the moment, and if I ever see that his 'groupies' show up mysteriouly in any more AfDs, I'll be more than happy to block again for longer. --InShaneee 18:40, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Aminz Request :

Aleged Injustice: Can other admins please have a look into this: ** Is 48 Hours block appropriate for such violation of policies? ** I seriously doubt! Zereshk has remained civil and hasn't done any vandalism. He has spammed some pages and this was his first time. Later, he has said to a particular user that he will inform him next time via email (please note his tone in that comment which seems not to be serious though it was very improper). I have seen all the relevant evidences & I personally find this block as it stands to be injustice (48 hours! for doing something once!). --Aminz 01:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Another evidence: One reason that I like another admin to look into this is that when InShaneee first warned Zereshk of not spamming, InShaneee warned Zereshk of getting blocked. I was completely surprised when I saw that. I've been around in wikipedia for awhile and have got a sense of the warnings. Nobody gives a {{test4}} to a person who has done vandalism for his first time. --Aminz 01:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I am requesting again. Can any other admin for the sake of God have a look into this case. Thanks --Aminz 07:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Another evidence : User InShaneee believes: "As I said, policy is policy and if you break it, it's broken. Sure, he didn't vandalize, but spamming is a policy too, and such flagrant disregard cannot go unnoticed... Showing such disregard for policy is the mark of a troll, and users who show no willingness to follow policy are often blocked indefinatly."

I personally think InShaneee is not taking the required steps one by one in dealing with user Zereshk. Blocking a user (particularly for 48 hours) should be only taken as the last resort. InShaneee, on the other hand, is trying to identify Zereshk's comment as a mark of being a troll. This is a very quick judgment based on a single comment and I believe InShaneee is over-generalizing the situation. Furthermore, this block doesn't serve in a constructive manner. I am still confused why InShaneee didn't warn Zereshk of not showing disregard for the policy. Much worst things happen in wikipedia all the times, but the admins are much more tolerant (and they are supposed to be). Just put yourself in Zereshk's shoes: He is going to be accused of having the mark of a troll and getting banned for 48 hours in his first violation of a policy!!!!! (well! two policies) --Aminz 07:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Tribalwar AFD Page

Has gotten lots of hit with personal attacks -- Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Tribalwar -- and has nothing to do with the subject matter. -- Shane 04:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I would recommend the personal attacks be removed, but would rather have clearnce to proceed. --Pilotguy 04:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty grotesque. There has been a huge influx of red accounts and IP's, all showing up in an instant and uttering nonsense. I'm not sure that anyone will be able to close the thing and feel secure about the decision, so I'd guess that DRV will be necessary. At any rate, actual personal attacks can be stricken through (the old <s> </s> tags), as that leaves them where they are but shows that the remarks are clutter and insults. Geogre 10:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Very nasty business, though inevitable - after all, it was nominated by a Misplaced Pages user with some sort of previous personal dispute with some (possibly many) of the forum members (see here and here). Nothing good was ever going to come of this - in fact, I suspect the only reason the AfD hasn't been closed as bad-faith is either that the editor is sufficiently well-established to get away with it, that the admins reckon a reasonably proper AfD process can still be salvaged from this mess (and I hope it's this one), or that no-one has noticed yet. - makomk 20:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

If this were to be reviewed once more. All you need to do is check the history to see what is going on. --Shane 00:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Administrators pushing their own POV

This is a serious problem. Take a look here and you'll see that MONGO and tom harrison are pushing their own POV's and also not being civil (using terms "conspiracy theorist") How long is it going to take for wikipedia to ditch them already? They (and others) are nothing but troublemakers. CB Brooklyn 04:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see where MONGO or tom harrison called you that. Mind providing a diff to an actual edit instead of the whole freakin' history page? Additionally, I don't see why you need to take an editorial dispute to ANI. Shouldn't you handle it with an RfC or something? Kasreyn 08:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks more like a case of administrators pushing policy to me. Just zis Guy you know? 14:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, if they are pushing policy at the expense of unsourced crap, something should be done! Barnstars? KillerChihuahua 17:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

STERN barnstars. --InShaneee 17:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

*dies laughing* ^_^ Kasreyn 20:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That's too good an opportunity to miss! <heads for Photoshop> Here you go... :-) -- ChrisO 20:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

You're my new hero, ChrisO. :) --InShaneee 20:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL! Great barnstar, I agree.  :) --Elonka 21:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone going to award it? --LV 21:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

done. KillerChihuahua 15:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Bonnieisrael

I'd appreciate another administrator stepping in here. Ever since I took a hard line against User:Israelbeach, I have been targetted by his sockpuppets and friends both on and off the wiki. Israelbeach crossed the lines and is effectively under community ban, but his puppets are still allowed to edit. user:Bonnieisrael is now trying to engage me in another personal edit war. As in: Which I foolishly corrected: And was of course reverted: . I know I have a part in this too, but I'd like to point out Bonnieisrael's history. She was blocked by Slimvirgin as a suspected sockpuppet of Israelbeach, for this sort of behavior and worse. She was unblocked by Jredmond. Jredmond promised Slimvirgin to keep an eye out , Slimvirgin said she would reblock Bonnieisrael for continuing this kind of behavior . Bonnieisrael has since contributed almost nothing but more Israelbeach-type edits. Jredmond has ignored my protests about Bonnieisrael's continued disruptive editing . I'd also like to point out that as an administrator, I could easily block any one of Israelbeach's sockpuppets myself, and I believe I would by fully justified in doing so - but I excercise restraint because I am personally involved. I count on other administrators to use clearer judgment. But mostly I think other administrators can't be bothered to check what these sock/meatpuppets are up to. --woggly 05:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• I don't know about the rest of your dispute, but generally it's considered more polite to dispute someone's claim by replying to it saying "That's wrong" than to edit their claim to what you think is correct. --Improv 13:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • And this my impropriety was the only aspect anyone thought worth responding to. Fine. I'm sure Israelbeach will be happy to continue populating Misplaced Pages with his sockpuppets, including the new baby: User:Jerusalemrose, and make many useful contributions to his self-promotion campaign wikipedia. I will no longer stand in his way. Heaven forbid, I might be tempted to be impolite again. --woggly 19:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Woggly, I've left a note for Jredmond, as he should deal with it in the first instance as the unblocking admin. Please keep me posted, so I know that it's being looked into. SlimVirgin 14:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Myrtone86 blocked for a week for (repeated) disruption

I have blocked Myrtone86 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for a week for adding an angry emoticon to the end of Template:UsernameBlocked . He also added an 'autosig' which also needed reverting, as sometimes extra commentary can be inserted after templates - I could almost swear that he's been reverted and warned about adding autosigs before, but perhaps that was someone else.

If it needs to be said, and I really hope it doesn't, this is a completely inappropriate edit to a high-visibility template which regards a very sensitive issue - blocking users indefinitely who may not have been expecting it. It turns a rational and clear explanation into a statement that we don't take permanent blocking of users who may be editing in good faith seriously. The edit stood for several hours until I used the template on a user's talk page, had to edit my own edit to remove Myrtone's crap, and then revert him. For all we know some editors used it without noticing (the template is designed to be substed so whatlinkshere won't be any use in checking). Silly edits to templatespace are many times more damaging than silly edits to article, user or projectspace.

My block of a week takes into account Myrtone's 5 previous blocks, albeit two were later undone. Given Myrtone86's history of silly edits which have got him blocked several times in the past, I don't feel any more such edits from this user should be tolerated. --Sam Blanning 16:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I've been involved with him before because he had an incredibly stupid signature that used {{PAGENAME}} in it. --Cyde↔Weys 16:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I briefly blocked Myrtone in June for persisting in that after multiple warnings. --Tony Sidaway 16:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the autosigs, the editor I was thinking of who had been doing it before was actually User:Flameviper12, not Myrtone. Flameviper had a similar history of mixing good edits with phenomenally stupid ones (more stupid than Myrtone, it has to be said), including disruptive signatures, until he was eventually indefinitely blocked (for the third time, after being unblocked twice after promising to be good). --Sam Blanning 16:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Myrtone86 has a history of constant disruption which he attempts to do in a way that he can pass off as an innocent action. Check a classic example here Requests for adminship/Jesus on Wheels. Suspect JoW is a sockpuppet of Myrtone86. Tyrenius 18:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I am truly baffled as to why this user has not been blocked indefinitely. He is an incredible nuisance who has contributed virutally nothing to Misplaced Pages.--SB | T 21:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I would say the next time this nonsense happens it's permanent. --Cyde↔Weys 02:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#How_it.27s_done_on_OrthodoxWiki might be of interest as well. Essjay (Talk) 07:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

2007-07-21 SPUI

SPUI (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has gone off the deep end. S/he's been edit warring on Freeway-related topics all month. There was the WP:POINT move of Freeway (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) to Highway with full control of access and no cross traffic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). That took weeks to fix (that was prior to my involvement).

But today, s/he's gone hog-wild WP:POINT creating:

• Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs),
• Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic in Canada (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), and
• Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic in the United States (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs).

And making hundreds of re-categorizations. Categories take even longer to fix than mere moves.

After losing the renaming of Category:Freeways (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) to Category:Limited-access roads (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), and then losing the July 1 CfD to rename it back, a Deletion review, a re-listing for more comments, and losing the CfD relisting, and on the way to losing another Deletion review. I've posted two notices at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement, should I make it 3, 4, 5?

Please stop this quickly, it's gotten ugly!

--William Allen Simpson 19:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

This is too complex for me to feel comfortable doing anything about, since I have no previous knowledge of this issue. However, a quick glance at the block log shows quite a colorful history. If there really was ill behavior here, I would suggest a somewhat long block - probably at least a week- as there sure seems to be a history of other disruptive behavior. Friday (talk) 19:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

See the arbitration case from a couple weeks ago (Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways). I recommend an immediate block to stop further damage if the editing is still in progress; decide afterwards how long to make it. Phr (talk) 20:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no "ill behavior" here. Most people in the deletion discussion begun by William do not wish to see these categories deleted. --SPUI (T - C) 20:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Still you can't deny you've made disruptive edits to some of these pages in the last 4 days all in violation of your probation. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 20:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually I do deny that. Not that you'll change your mind based on said denial. --SPUI (T - C) 20:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Repeatedly deleted the speedy deletion tags on the 4 categories, followed by {hangon}, gaming the 3RR.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic&diff=65092468&oldid=65088300
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic&diff=65096312&oldid=65094565
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic&diff=65106914&oldid=65097292
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic&diff=65109444&oldid=65108412
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic_by_country&diff=65092502&oldid=65088398
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic_by_country&diff=65096307&oldid=65094639
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic_by_country&diff=65106904&oldid=65097342
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Category:Highways_with_full_control_of_access_and_no_cross_traffic_by_country&diff=65109433&oldid=65108477
• etc.

  --William Allen Simpson 20:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandal SPUI edit warring continues at Limited-access road (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views).

--William Allen Simpson 21:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Simple removal of uncited material that has been uncited since I tagged it about a week ago. --SPUI (T - C) 21:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandal SPUI edit warring continues at Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic in Canada, where none of the subcategories or articles applies. According to their own main articles, these are expressways and controlled access roads, and therefore do not have "no cross traffic". For example, Ring Road (Regina) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has signals at railroad crossings.

--William Allen Simpson 22:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

William has added improper speedy deletion templates to the categories several times, and has tried to empty Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic in Canada. --SPUI (T - C) 22:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to comment on whether WAS is right or wrong as I think it could go both ways. However what is a fact despite your denial is that you've been edit warring with him. That is disruption. Disruption is an immediate block per yours and my probations. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 22:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked William Allen Simpson for personal attacks for repeatedly referring to SPUI as "Vandal SPUI". That's unacceptable. More explanation on William's talk page. --Cyde↔Weys 22:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Ill-advised words, sure, but a blockworthy personal attack? A warning first sure wouldn't have hurt. Friday (talk) 23:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That was inexcusable language. A three-hour cooler sounds sensible here. --Tony Sidaway 23:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait. You guys block WAS for being mildly uncivil yet don't block SPUI for two days worth of shirking his ArbCom imposed probation which specifically forbids edit warring on highway articles and incivility, both of which he was proven to have done??? How the hell does that work? JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 23:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

(ec) He's been blocked so many times he's got more than one page of block log. Is referring to him as "vandal" THAT unreasonable? I'm all for being very conservative with the use of that word, but let's be reasonable. Friday (talk) 23:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I endorse the block of William Allen Simpson. He is clearly out of control on this issue (unlike SPUI) and needs a breather. If he doesn't tone down the unwarranted rhetoric, he will find himself getting longer blocks. SPUI has a checkered history on Misplaced Pages but that doesn't mean he's fair game. Kelly Martin (talk) 23:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

None of SPUI's blocks are for vandalism, so yes, referring to him as a vandal is entirely unreasonable. SPUI may have some problems dealing with content disputes, but he does a lot of good work and he's certainly no vandal, and I know he doesn't appreciate being called one. --Cyde↔Weys 02:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

He's continued - "I was not able to assist you, as SPUI had his chat friends block my account for reporting his repeated vandalism at WP:ANI, the usual place for reporting vandalism." --SPUI (T - C) 19:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Energyblue blocked as sockpuppet

I just put an indefinite block on Energyblue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for being a SOCK of VaughanWatch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). My reasoning for this is:

• His first edit was to "out" pm_shef, the apparent archnemesis of VaughanWatch
• His second edit was to report pm_shef here

This seems like a pretty clearcut case for sockpuppetry of a blocked user, but I did want to post it here to make sure that no one sees any issue with this. -- JamesTeterenko 19:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• I'm cool with it. Even if he's not VaughanWatch, he's pretty obviously a sockpuppet. JDoorjam Talk 19:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Would surprise me if it wasn't a VaughanWatch sock. Good block. Syrthiss 11:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking for some more eyes/peacemakers at William H. Kennedy

Got a page of a living person, with two editors with very strong views holding an edit war over the page. One pro-Kennedy, one anti-Kennedy. The page was semi-protected a few days back, at the request of the pro side warrior (User:617USA). On the anti side, there had been several IPs followed by a user account, (User:Suture). I'm pretty sure this is all one person. The anti warrior has been pushing to have some serious derogatory claims included in the article. I've been trying to reason with him on the talk page about the need for WP:RS. His account appears to have just passed the age for getting around the semi-protection, and the fight is on again. And I'm about done for much of the weekend, with little time to deal with things. It would be great if another admin could keep an eye on this page, as I can see things getting out of hand again there very easily. - TexasAndroid 21:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Kelly Martin/B

This list User:Kelly Martin/B is of a concern to me. It appears to be a list of a group of users who have little in common other than that, as far as I can tell, all of us found ourselves in opposition to Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Sean Black 2 for one reason or another. That the administrator largely responsible for the creation of this page stated that its purpose was "It is used by myself and certain others to benefit our decision-making processes" , so I can only conclude that its sole purpose is to harass and/or intimidate those with whom this administrator disagreed about the RFA in question. BigDT 21:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I have now listed this page at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion. Please feel free to help build a consensus there as appropriate. BigDT 21:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha, nice guess, but it actually has nothing to do with Sean Black's RFA. That's an interesting correlation you pointed out, though ... Cyde↔Weys 22:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL nevermind, it got a lot bigger since the last time I looked at it :-P Check the page's history though, it's been around since before Sean Black's RFA. --Cyde↔Weys 22:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

And it just got a lot smaller since I last looked, Cyde just deleted it. Meh. the wub "?!" 22:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Edit conflict: I was also going to post that the page has now been deleted by Cyde. I would still like to know what the intentions were. Refusing to say what it is for and deleting it as soon as anyone outside of your clique finds out about it hampers my ability to assume good faith. -BigDT 22:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the fact that people are poking around in my userspace. The purpose of that page is to benefit my ability to make decisions in the best interest of Misplaced Pages. Just a way of keeping track of people that's more reliable than my memory -- there's a lot of Wikipedians these days and I find that I can no longer manage everything in my head. All it takes to get on there is doing anything that makes you stand out to me -- good or bad, it doesn't matter; being included there doesn't mean I think you're a bad person or anything; it's just a list. I deliberately created it in my user space and at an out of the way location so that it wouldn't be disruptive, but of course someone had to go and make trouble about it. Nice show, people. I suppose I'll move it to my own wiki (which is closed, and I don't give out passwords to many people) where I don't have to worry about people messing with it. Even better, I can put it in a special locked namespace where none of you can see it, either. You should have stopped while you were ahead..... Kelly Martin (talk) 22:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kelly why not just recreate it? There was no basis for the deletion of it and it can be easily restored through proper channels. I'm confused as to why it was deleted in the first place. Having a list of users isn't against any rule. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 22:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Recreating it will just disrupt Misplaced Pages further. If I maintain this list off-wiki, I won't have to deal with the howling -- or at least can ignore it more readily. Kelly Martin (talk) 22:40, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That's not the explanation you gave for it on IRC. I don't think this after the fact misrepresentation of what the list was for is really helpful. --W.marsh 22:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Good grief. I can't believe we're even having this conversation. You created a list of names that apparantly was based on people you and others had disagreed with. You refused to say what it was for - simply giving a reasonable explanation would have sufficed. When you get caught, somehow it's our fault for "poking around in your user space", whatever that means. Still, rather than provide an explanation, Cyde removes the list. Calling it a list of people that stand out good, bad, or indifferent sounds dubious considering that (1) there were multiple substantial contributors to the list and (2) you added a large block of names from Sean's RFA. Now, you play the "drama queen" card of taking your football and going to your own secret wiki. Honestly, this behavior disturbs me. If everything you were doing was above board, then you would not at all be upset at discussing your actions. BigDT 22:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

No cookies for you this year at Christmas. Kelly Martin (talk) 23:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's just as well ... I need to cut down anyway ... BigDT 23:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we're all entitled to know what this is all about. I see other admins adding names to this secret list in user space, then deleting the list (including User:Cyde with the summary "Kill everything"?), and then see my name on it. What is going on? -- Samir धर्म 08:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, so secret that she put it in her userspace. Henry 08:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

1. 23:11, 21 July 2006 . . Freakofnurture (Talk | contribs | block) (+1)
2. 18:09, 21 July 2006 . . Cyde (Talk | contribs | block) (Kill MFD)
3. 18:09, 21 July 2006 . . Cyde (Talk | contribs | block) (rm. another self-add)
4. 18:08, 21 July 2006 . . Cyde (Talk | contribs | block) (Nope, you need to earn it.)
5. 18:06, 21 July 2006 . . W.marsh (Talk | contribs | block) (I want in!)
6. 17:51, 21 July 2006 . . BigDT (Talk | contribs | block) (+mfd1)
7. 17:45, 21 July 2006 . . The wub (Talk | contribs | block) (seems like a nice bunch, I want in)
8. 13:54, 21 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (add many)
9. 15:04, 20 July 2006 . . SPUI (Talk | contribs | block) (apparently I can help by expanding it?)
10. 14:20, 20 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (+2)
11. 12:11, 20 July 2006 . . Gurch (Talk | contribs | block) (oh, that. So what? I'm entitled to my opinion, no?)
12. 10:17, 20 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (why)
13. 08:16, 20 July 2006 . . Gurch (Talk | contribs | block) (ehh... what did I do?)
14. 18:39, 17 July 2006 . . Cyde (Talk | contribs | block) (Add one)
15. 12:45, 14 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (+)
16. 22:57, 12 July 2006 . . Freakofnurture (Talk | contribs | block) (1)
17. 13:25, 12 July 2006 . . Freakofnurture (Talk | contribs | block) (-rfaf, +humor)
18. 11:49, 12 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (+)
19. 09:58, 6 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (+)
20. 09:57, 6 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (add)
21. 10:38, 5 July 2006 . . Freakofnurture (Talk | contribs | block) (+1)
22. 12:41, 3 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block) (add)
23. 11:30, 3 July 2006 . . Sean Black (Talk | contribs | block) (yeah...)
24. 11:17, 3 July 2006 . . Phil Boswell (Talk | contribs | block) (Example user (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)…or should we use User-multi error: no username detected (help).?)
25. 11:12, 3 July 2006 . . Freakofnurture (Talk | contribs | block)
26. 02:03, 3 July 2006 . . Kelly Martin (Talk | contribs | block)

That's very intimidating intimate, and yet ever so participatory! I'm honoured to grace the list. I think! *Kisses* El_C 09:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I am told I was listed on here, don't I have a right to know what it is? Computerjoe's talk 12:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Damn, that's creepy. I appeared on 6 of July, apparently after my vote on User:Mboverload's RfA. User:Gurch who voted "per me" was added shortly thereafter. I definitely don't like the smell of it.  Grue  13:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi everyone! Friendly Assume Good Faith reminder! Contributors to this mysterious subpage should not assume objectors are "making trouble" and that hiding it in some other place somehow hampers the objectors. They should also realize that people like to see who is linking to their user pages, that such curiosity is perfectly normal, and that an unannotated and apparently random list would obviously stand out as a curiosity. Objectors should accept the contributors' explanations at face value unless evidence to the contrary is presented. The idea that this list is just a list of "people of interest" is at least plausible. =) Powers 13:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that no explanation has been given. If Kelly, Cyde, and others would give an explanation, I would be willing to accept it. BigDT 15:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I find it hard to WP:AGF when one administrator suggests using a {{vandal}} template for the people on the list AND another uses the words "kill everything" in the summary to delete the list. -- Samir धर्म 04:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

If this list really is no big deal, why can't it just be explained? Clearly, we're all itching to know. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 08:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Probably a "Christmas gift" that we can expect after this RfA. ;) - Mailer Diablo 16:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Man, not even 3000 edits and I'm blacklisted. Argh. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Kelly Martin, I see you are proposing to move this list to your own server. If this is based in the UK, it may be subject to the Data Protection Act; and if in the EU, various directives limiting the use of personal information. Personally, I will assume good faith. If the reason I am on the list is because someone disapproves (or approves for that matter) of something I said, they are welcome to comment on my talk page. Everyone is open to reason, if you catch the right moment. Stephen B Streater 09:33, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh for fuck's sakes. Really. This is way past the threshold of ridiculous and is now firmly in the territory of the absurd. You're quoting British laws at her?! Ahahahahahaha. --Cyde↔Weys 15:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems you have misconstrued the purpose of my comment. Stephen B Streater 22:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Personally, I see enough people I respect on the list to take my inclusion as a compliment. I do wonder why I'm a Q1 on this list though. What could it all mean? -- Avenue 13:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
  • No idea. I see that W.marsh is listed under BBQ. I strongly suspect that we've crossed the line into parody. Regarding your inclusion, clearly it's a bad pun (Avenue Q). Mackensen (talk) 14:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
    • BBQ? I want in on the LB (Light Brunch) list wherever that is. --Alf 18:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• OK, fess up, how many of you have a /B page? I have one. NoSeptember 14:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Me too, but at least I was smart enough to make it inaccessible to everyone else. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 15:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Funny, I can view what's there ;) NoSeptember 15:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, having such a list of users is very poor taste. I can't think of any "decision-making processes" using current mechanisms which would necessitate lists of users by certain criteria. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Since this all blew up and blew away over the weekend, and I opposed Sean Black's RfA and am curious, could someone tell me if I was/am/will be on this list? -- nae'blis _(talk) 15:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, thanks, someone filled me in that I was/am. I'm disappointed in Kelly's choice to take this "off-wiki" and refusal to answer simple questions about the intent of such a list. -- nae'blis _(talk) 16:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is the list before it was deleted. I am on it, as are several other admins who opposed SB's RfA. I am appalled. Jonathunder 16:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Micoolio101 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• M. Burmy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• SirGrant (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• ClemMcGann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Jtdirl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Juppiter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Splash (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Xoloz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• DragonWR12LB (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• mboverload (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Grue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Gurch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) •
• Splash (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Rossami (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Dragon695 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Xaosflux (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Haukurth (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• SatyrTN (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sockenpuppe (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• A. B. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• AaronS (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Abcdefghijklm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Aguerriero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Avenue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bhadani (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• BigDT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Blnguyen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bucketsofg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Computerjoe (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• David D. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Deon555 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Dlyons493 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• El C (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Eluchil404 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Erik the Rude (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Goldom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Grace Note (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Grandmasterka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Grue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Guinnog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Idont Havaname (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• JJay (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• JJJJust (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Jonathunder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kimchi.sg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kinneyboy90 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Knowledge Seeker (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Mailer diablo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Matt Yeager (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• MatthewFenton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Nae'blis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• OwenX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Paolo Liberatore (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Petros471 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• RandyWang (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• RFerreira (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Samir (The Scope) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Samsara (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Shizane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Silensor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Simetrical (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Stephen B Streater (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Tariqabjotu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Terence Ong (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Themindset (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Thumbelina (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Tintin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• William Allen Simpson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• WillMak050389 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Zaxem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

<list snipped, it makes ANI much longer and is totally unnecessary, it's already reproduced elsewhere in userspace> --Cyde↔Weys 17:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I put the list back (above). It belongs here as it is the entire point of discussion. Also, if it is reproduced somewhere else already, please provide a link. Just cutting it from here, not showing where it is reproduced, and fully knowing that nonadmins can't see deleted text appears to me as something to hide, or either way, not a good idea. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 20:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking through the history of this list, I see that most names, including mine, were added after we Sean Black's RFA. Is this an "enemies list" of people to settle scores with? Jonathunder 17:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't particularly care what this list was for, but I think it was shockingly clueless of the people involved in making it to put such an unexplained list of editors on-Wiki, delete it when it attracts attention, and then refuse to really talk about its purpose, unless their goal is to create drama. If that was the intent, well-done, otherwise, that was dumb as hell, guys. If this was an "in-joke", or whatever, it was bungled and turned into a disruption by serious cluelessness on the part of those "in" on the joke. Sometimes, Kelly impresses me with her good judgement. This isn't one of those. On the other hand, her reaction of clamming up when the drama starts, instead of defusing it with candid openness, reminds me of Kelly in early January, so I guess that's not surprising. Why not try a different approach to controversy, Kelly? You like drama? -GTBacchus 17:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, now there's a new version at User:Kelly Martin/Q and if this keeps up, I will seriously reconsider whether I want to stay involved around here. Jonathunder 18:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

That's your prerogative, but I can't help but think that everything is being seriously overblown. I wish we had an article on Social panic, but we do not, so I'll have to reference Moral panic. When some things have the appearance of secrecy people tend to be inclined to think the absolute worst, no matter how far off the truth that may be. --Cyde↔Weys 18:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Which is why it's pretty much a lot smarter to maintain an impression of openness instead. At some point, you can't control the fact that people tend to react in certain ways, but you can refrain from provoking them. I don't blame people for being people, but I'm disappointed in you Cyde, and Kelly, for not knowing what people are like. -GTBacchus 18:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right, Cyde, that attempted secrecy causes suspicion. Wouldn't it be best if someone just gave a clear explanation of the purpose of this list? The thing has cabal written all over it, it's no wonder that the listed users are concerned. Canderson7 18:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Oleg above. This showed poor judgment from all the people involved in keeping that list. The day wikipedians are voting according to what will make them look good among a click of wikipedia-veterans is a sad day for the community. Just the very notion that someone are keeping lists of "good" and "bad" wikipedians based on how they act and vote on RFA is very destructive to this community, a community based on everyone acting in good faith and according to what they believe will make this encyclopedia better. If I wanted to oppose an rfa because I didn't see the candidate fit as an admin, I should be able to make that oppose vote without any fear of ending up on some list that would haunt me later. Kelly seemed surprised that the existence of this userpage list became known. I think it would be more surprising if it didn't get known, and I bet many people knew about it long before it got blown up here. I just hope nobody made it influence their voting on Sean Black's rfa. But I'm afraid it might have. And that it might influence people in the future. That is not good, and Kelly should realize this. Shanes 18:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.Voice-of-All 18:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

What is interesting to observe is the tortuous lengths Cyde and Kelly will go to to insist that this was a good, helpful, right, healthy thing to do, and that any upset is definitely not anything whatsoever at all to do with their angelic, prayerful selves, and that it is all everyone else's fault. That this was a stupendous error of judgement (of all those who compiled the original list), whatever its original intent, is plainly obvious; being unable to see that, especially when it is laid out for you in such painful detail, is an elegant corroboration of the judgement error already made. It also has the overtones of those days from primary school when you'd be passing a secret note around under the desks, and the teacher would say "What have you got there, Splash?" and you'd say "Nothing, Sir." as you screwed it into a ball and hid it under your chair. Then, at breaktime, you'd all huddle around the table in the back at the corner, and giggle, guiltily looking over your shoulders to see if any teachers were walking by and, when they caught you, you'd act all righteously indignant in hope you might bluster them into giving up. -Splash - tk 19:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, what's really interesting, to me, is the response. A list like this (and, please note, that I've never approved of it) has as much value as people place in it. Anyone who would let a list like that guide their judgement has already made up their mind. Or, more appropriately, has decided to let that list do their thinking for them. That's abominable. At the same time, anyone on a list who thinks that said list has any relevance to their actions clearly has no idea how a wiki functions. I'm saddened that anyone has placed any stock in this ridiculous affair. That goes for both the people who made the list and the people who ended up on it. The best response from the people on the list would have been to call it idiotic (which it was) and carry on with their lives (which I hope they do). This has been a tawdry affair, both silly and unnecesary, and to exacerbate it further would do very little good and probably a great deal of harm. I suppose if anyone hasn't finished expressing their moral outrage at list compilation they should do it now. Mackensen (talk) 19:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't care less about my name being on the list, but you must see that this situation is now self-exacerbating. Even if people stop commenting on it (which they won't), there are several things going on that make them feel worse than they already do for being placed on the list. First their oppose votes are roundly dismissed as ridiculous, then the RFA is closed somewhat unconventionally (again devaluing their concerns), and now we have RFA votes like this from Kelly Martin, which barring any other explanation look like a "because you're on my list" vote. This whole thing was built up wrong from the beginning, and it has been beset by unknowns. That clearly has brought out a lot of suspicion and unease in serious editors, amd I don't think it is going to go away readily. Now we just have a list of people have not had their concerns validated, but who ARE having their suspicions validated. --Aguerriero (talk) 00:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Block Evade: User:McMeaty

Here, I reported an incident with an unregistered user making havoc, and it resulted in him being blocked an protection of the relevant article (Firebender). Well, he must have managed to change his IP, because he’s back at it. It seems he also has a member account, User:McMeaty. I’ve reverted his changes on talk: Firebender, but they are still visible on the page history. He’s also added personal insults towards another editor to his talk page.--Fyre2387 21:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've temporairily blocked him. Sasquatch t|c 02:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Guy Montag banned from Deir Yassin massacre

Nay one quarter of a moon has passed, and I've banned Guy Montag from Deir Yassin massacre under the terms of his probation. Inserting copyvio information from here and general tendentious editing on the talk page.

• Notified here.
• Copyvio diff here.
• AE here.

I'm not particularly attached to this, but I thought it was the right thing to do. I have encouraged him to appeal if he feels he has been wronged. - FrancisTyers · 00:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You've lost all sense of proportion and ruined an article over a non issue.

Guy Montag 01:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I've ruined the article :/ And I don't think you should be describing copyright violation as a "non issue". As I have mentioned, perhaps I was hasty but I think under the circumstances it was the right thing to do. You initially claimed that it was "one sentence", but have since discovered it was several paragraphs. I think you were a bit hasty in your initial response :) - FrancisTyers · 01:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Note: given an initially incorrect reading of his probation, the ban was set to end at "22 July 2007", this as been amended to "9 October 2006". Apologies for this mistake. - FrancisTyers · 01:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it clearly inflames a situation that was almost over by re-banning Guy. It was already decided that the previous block was inappropriate, and that Guy's actions did not violate the terms of his probation. I am rather uncomfortable with the fact that you would ban Guy for such a similar infraction, I think your actions amount to a wheel-war and I would recomend that you undo the ban, and first discuss the situation here and with other administrators that were involved in the original dispute above.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 01:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Guy has informed me that he will be requesting permission for the use of the copyrighted text. I have asked another couple of admins to check over my ban, and if they disagree then sobeit. I don't think it amounts to a wheel-war. I don't think you can compare the two reasons for banning as "similar infractions". - FrancisTyers · 01:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Francis, as you recently commented on some of the issues on that page on the talk page (as an editor, not as an admin), and as you took the opposite position to Guy, calling his position "farcical," it would probably be better if you unbanned him and allowed an uninvolved admin to take a look at the situation. I've also left a note on your talk page that shows one of the alleged copyright violations wasn't in fact copied at all. SlimVirgin 02:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Just for the clarity, only a fraction of the copyright violations are reporetd at the talk page. The article is full of it, from at least 3 different websites. -- Kim van der Linde 06:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It does seem that the article is/was a patchwork quilt of material copied from different places. Whatever we may think of the merits of Guy's version, it's risky for us to have an article appears to be effectively a copy-and-paste from multiple copyrighted sources. The fact that Guy is saying now that he's requesting permission for the use of the copyrighted text is obviously an acknowledgement that he knows he didn't have permission before. As breaches of probation go, I'd say this was at the high end of the scale; the ban seems reasonable in the circumstances. -- ChrisO 08:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the ban per SV's request. If a things worth doing, its worth doing right. I welcome less involved parties than me to review the ban and reapply it if thought appropriate. - FrancisTyers · 12:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

If the article is that much of a convoluted collection of copyvio, the only solution is to delete it completely and rebuild from scratch, IMO. Violating copyright first, and asking for permission later, is NOT acceptable whatsoever. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 02:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I have decided that after it was clear that the article is literally loaded with copyvio's, I only will show the evidence for the first three section, and that can be found here: http://www.kimvdlinde.com/wikipedia/Deir_Yassin_Copyright_violation.doc The remaining two sections are done in part, and could be good or bad with regard to the number of copyvio's. What is clear is that the copyvio's are from various websites, and in part from pre Guy Montag, although all new insertions that I found originate from him. -- Kim van der Linde 02:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I ahave filed a ArbCom case for this, and the related bised editing here: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Dier Yassin. -- Kim van der Linde 15:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Vote corrupted (again) by user

William Allen Simpson (talk · contribs) closed a vote in controversial circumstances. A list of categories different to the ones being voted on was added to during a vote after quite a few voters had already voted on the original list. He chose to include votes cast for deletion prior to their late addition as block votes for deletion of the late added categories too, even though the original list was of people who speak universal or majority national languages like English (hardly a topic worth a category), while the late additions were of small languages with so small a usage that the ability to speak it was notable (for example, Welsh). His cock-up in counting and in misrepresenting votes led to a decision at deletion review to undelete the categories added in and re-list them, something he grudgingly did, while refusing to accept any responsibility for the screw-up.

In the relist he added in a false explanation (how it was merely that they had not been listed for a full seven days, not that they had been suspiciously added in when a votes had been cast on other categories). He then corrupted the second vote by canvassing users, asking them if their original votes had been to delete the categories.

1. 19:53, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Merchbow (People by language)
2. 19:52, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Golfcam (People by language)
3. 19:51, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Calsicol (People by language)
4. 19:51, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Smerus (People by language)
5. 19:50, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Osomec (People by language)
6. 19:49, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Olborne (People by language)
7. 19:49, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Musicpvm (People by language)
8. 19:48, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Sumahoy (People by language)
9. 19:47, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Yonatanh (People by language) link to diff, all the above are the same notice
10. 19:38, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Syrthiss (some category help) link to diff

Prior to the deletion review, his attention to the error had been drawn by a Welsh user. Instead of paying any attention he attacked her in a manner that suggested he was hardly a neutral observer of the debate. She discovered that he had added in the loaded (and completely) misleading supposed explanation for the revote and that he was canvassing support, and informed the users on their pages that the issue was more complex, to try to undo the damage he was doing to the second vote.

To make a mess of counting the first time could be excused (even if his comments suggested he was hardly a neutral observer fit to interpret the results). To deliberately corrupt the revote through a misleading explanation and canvassing, is unacceptable. At this stage it is impossible to work out how many genuine voters are voting, or whether others were canvassed by other means (email, etc). What do we do now? Wait until they are deleted a second time and then relist a third time? At this stage any chance of a balanced debate had been destroyed by Mr Simpson's conduct. A glance at his edits suggests that this is not the first time that he has been engaged in widespread canvassing on issues he feels strongly about. He is making a mockery, and a mess, of the whole deletion system. User:Jtdirl 01:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I've seen him doing this same sort of thing in other CFD discussions. Sorry, nothing specific, but it's as if he thinks he runs that place. --Cyde↔Weys 01:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually Jtdirl, if you had bothered looking at my talk you would have seen that he most certianly did not canvass me for votes. User:Deb made the same erroneous assumption and then deleted her comment off my talk page when she realized her error. He asked me to do two things: do an unreleated history only undeletion that had sat around for ~20 days on DRV (IIRC), and to undelete the cats relative to the relisted CFD because people in a froth about it had re-added items back to the deleted cats and he didn't want to see relinked categories in articles while it was sorted out. I'm going to go check the other edits listed by you to verify that you haven't misrepresented them as well. Asking users who have participated before in a discussion to weigh in is perfectly reasonable, especially if perhaps he felt he was in error in the original closing...as long as all of them are notified and there isn't any attempt to sway the debate ("its up for discussion again please vote KEEP"). Syrthiss 11:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Linked the notice above, it was a question regarding their intention on the debate. Full disclosure is a nice thing, rather than a witch hunt, wouldn't you say? Syrthiss 11:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Asking users if they intended their vote to be "to delete" is an non-too-subtle way of canvassing. If he had asked then what their vote was meant to would be somewhat neutral. But asking them to deny his interpretation that their vote to delete, at a time when the he wants people to come to a page to vote to delete, is blatent fixing. Deb caught him up to his usual tricks and simply pointed out that the issue wasn't straightforward and showed them a link to a debate. He has blatently now corrupted two votes on the issue. Users have been blocked from Misplaced Pages for less. FearÉIREANN\ 20:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Please desist from your personal attacks and repeated prevarication. The Cfd practice is that such parties be notified upon re-listing. The neutrally worded notice was (all notices were substantially identical):

Please confirm whether you meant your previous discussion to apply to the 3 remaining languages, as they received only 4 days of comments, instead of the full 7.

--William Allen Simpson 18:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Why are Wikipedians voting on this matter in the first place? --Tony Sidaway 00:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

That is, indeed, a good question. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 01:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

A list of categories of people by language spoken was put up for deletion. The list was all of national dominant languages (eg, Danish, given that practically 100% of Danes speak Danish, Dutch, given that practically 100% of Dutch people speak Dutch, etc) and mass international languages like English, French, and Spanish. Categorising people by such languages is pointless — its a bit by listing people per having two eyes, etc. In other words it is the natural default that one would expect and in no way notable. Well into the vote a different type of languages, small use languages where the ability to speak it is so rare as to be notable, for example, Welsh (which few Welsh people can speak), Latin (which few Catholic clergy can speak anymore) etc were sneaked in unto the list even though they are fundamentally different. (For example, the fact that Prince Charles can speak English isn't notable. The fact that he can speak Welsh is notable and made headlines when he studied it. The fact that George Bush can (sort of) speak English is not notable. It is to be expected. If he could speak Latin or Welsh, that would be notable, putting him in a very small elite.) Simpson counted votes cast to delete the first block of widely spoken languages which had been caste before not small minority languages were sneaked onto the list, as votes to delete the entire list. When he was informed by users, who presumed he had not noticed the mistake, of the error, he turned on users and attacked them. A deletion review relisted the rarely spoken languages, amid much moaning from Simpson. He got them relisted (grudlingly), put a misleading explanation for the reason of the vote at the top, placed the relist back with the earlier vote (meaning that new users had to dig around in all the archives to try and track it down) and then to rig it more contacted users in a none-too-subtle attempt to canvass them. So having mishandled one vote, he then tried to set up the second to deliver the result he had announced his support for. But then, as Cyde noted, Simpson seems to be acting like judge, jury and executioner far too often, rather than standing back and letting independent people not committed to one side, to analyse the results, reach a conclusion and implement it. FearÉIREANN\ 07:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I was not notified of this discussion by the petitioner.

To the best of my observation, and careful annotation on the current discussion,

1. No languages were sneaked onto the list by anybody, they were all properly tagged by Chicheley (talk · contribs).
2. It is not unusual for additional categories to be added as discovered during an umbrella nomination.
3. The entire discussion had more than 20 participants. There was no controversy. This is an overwhelming supermajority. Also, look at the well-reasoned comments.
4. The actual count for the discussion following complete tagging was 8d:3k. Again, clear, convincing, and obvious supermajority.
5. You will be given an opportunity to prove that I "turned on users and attacked them".
6. The deletion review was concluded promptly (not awaiting the full 7 days) and the debate relisted.
7. The relist copied the entire preceding discussion, as required at Misplaced Pages:Deletion process.
8. The relist explanation was entirely accurate and objective: RELISTED FOR FURTHER COMMENTS PURSUANT TO Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 July 18, because 3 categories received only 4 days of comments, instead of the full 7.

I will bring the above personal attacks and prevarication to RfAR as soon as practicable. (I'm very busy, I have a couple of briefs due at the Court of Appeals.) The involved administrators should have their priviledges revoked.

--William Allen Simpson 18:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Improper reversion on WP:SOCK

Please take action against FT2 for improper reverting of Misplaced Pages's policy on legitimate sockpuppets. PooIGuy 02:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It is worth noting that PooIGuy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)'s edits to Misplaced Pages:Sock puppetry were the first and third edits under that account name. (The comment above was the second.) Although new users are of course welcome to participate in policy discussions, I think that a major edit to a policy page by a brand-new account is suspicious enough to merit reversion. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked as an impersonator of PoolGuy (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). --Cyde↔Weys 02:48, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Note that PoolGuy is limited by Arbcom to one account. Mackensen (talk) 13:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Fake user

I really hate it. User:Wizkid357 wrote a message on my talkpage and signed it as Ral315. I thought I ought to report here, as he is clearly faking his sig, but still...he is trying to be Ral315. Treebark (talk) 03:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't appear that Wizkid357 was trying to impersonate Ral315. I assume that you're talking about this edit to your talk page...? It seems that Wizkid357 was just copy-paste quoting Ral315's remark from Ral's comment here. Wizkid probably should have made more of an effort to set off his remark as a quotation, but he did sign the edit with his own signature. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 05:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Note Based on the user page and edit history, it appears that Wizkid is a pre-teen, so may be a little careless in some areas (like the barnstar that doesn't seem to have been put there by the editor whose name is signed to it). Fan-1967 20:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

New user requesting help may be a sockpuppet

When a bot at #wikipedia-bootcamp notified users that RumDuck (talk · contribs) was in need of help, he was asking why his IP was blocked. He used {{helpme}} prior to any welcome message posted there. It appears that his IP is blocked because of the indef block put on Werto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Based on the way that he is signing his messages as well as the use of the template with no knowledge how to, I believe he is a sockpuppet of Werto. I believe that the IP address that it came from should have a block on account creation, now that he's used it to try and get unblocked. Ryūlóng 05:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The talk page of the IP in question is peppered with {{blatantvandal}}, and appears to also be involved with racist remarks that Werto was blocked for (24.83.203.198 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)). Ryūlóng 06:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

When I did block, I checked to make sure the account creation was disabled, but I have no idea how it works out, since I am still somewhat unfamiliar on the new blocking system and how it "works." User:Zscout370 06:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

216.164.203.90 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

It appears that the "Nanook vandal", known by such registered names as Raptor30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Rappy30V2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (V3, etc.) and Nookdog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), is asking various people to be unblocked. If it can be demonstrated that there is collateral damage at other IPs (strangely, starting with 64) or because others using "Google Web Accelerator, which assigns a small set of proxy Ip's to it's users" as claimed (despite the seeming impossibility, as this user's IP has been static from the start), then any such damage certainly should be mitigated. Given the massive evidence against 216.164.203.90, however, this IP should not be unblocked under any circumstances for the foreseeable future. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 06:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

This user (who previously impersonated me in IRC and on Wikinews) has created wikt:User:Radio Kirk (where I already have an account, without the space) and wikispecies:User:RadioKirk (where I didn't) to impersonate me again. Fortunately, it's painfully obvious... RadioKirk (u|t|c) 21:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Easyrider roo (talk · contribs)

User:Easyrider roo has a total of four edits, consisting of only copyright violations. The user has posted the entire afterword ("Author's Note") to Philip K. Dick's novel A Scanner Darkly in two places: User:Easyrider roo/AScannerDarkly and User:Easyrider roo. Note, this is not just the list of names that appears in the movie. I have just blanked the pages, but I think the history should be purged. Could someone take care of this please? —Viriditas | Talk 07:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Next time, I suggest following the procedure at Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems. These things usually are not an emergency. Basically, you blank the page, use the {{copyvio}} template and then list the page at the copyright problems subpage that is on the template after you save the page. Anyway, I deleted User:Easyrider roo/AScannerDarkly, since it does not have much purpose now that the text is deleted. It is not necessary to remove copyright violations from the history unless there is a complaint. Therefore, I would have saved the user page, except for the fact that there is a good chance that he or she is not coming back based upon my experience with copyright violators - all of the edits were copyright violations, they were all made on the same day and no edits have been made since, which is classic copyright violator style, at least for text (as opposed to images). -- Kjkolb 08:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The reason I wanted to bypass WP:CP was due to the fact that this was showing up in recent Google search results, which I just found. The text was uploaded by the user around the time the film was in limited release (July 7), however the film is going into wide release on July 28, so I felt that a quick response might be needed. As I recall, WP:CP has a backlog. —Viriditas | Talk 08:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Molobo (talk · contribs), Sciurin%C3%A6 (talk · contribs)

These two were edit warring over articles that concerned Poles in Germany or similar things. If you check this diff: , you will see that both versions are sort of biased, Molobos was at least sourced. The blocking admin (Dmcdevit) said he was tired etc. and wouldn't do the same thing (evidence collecting) for Sciurinae, but that probably someone should do it, because it was always him who pursued molobos edits and warred over them. However, Sciurinae was blocked for 72 hours, (despite warning for months), and Molobo for 1 year. I don't think that Molobo should be unblocked, he surely did what he shouldnt have done, but why is his sparing partner only blocked for 72 hours? Azmoc 07:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Dmcdevit thought that there was still hope for Sciurinae, and that a shorter block might drive home the point that we're serious about not tolerating edit warring. Checking the block log, I note that this is Sciurinae's first block, whereas Molobo has been blocked many times over the last nine months for edit warring.

Molobo was nearly blocked indefinitely a couple of months ago – see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive89#Molobo_blocked_for_disruptive_edit_warring – and was only allowed to return after a shorter (1 month) block on the condition that he refrain from the edit warring conduct that got him in trouble in the first place. Molobo has had ample opportunities to reform his behaviour, and has failed to avail himself of those opportunities.

I assume and expect that should Sciurinae fail to modify his behaviour, he too will face additional warnings and escalating blocks—however I hope that this 72-hour block (which, for a first block, is far from short) will discourage further edit warring. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Vestal Senior High School

Could some more people watch this article? I've removed some slanders from it - but it is still full of trivia which (even if true) is of no value to wikipedia, and is likely to attract more nonsense. This is a good example of why schools' articles are a Bad Idea. --Aoratos 08:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Added. This is a very nice high school article. Iolakana| 11:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

question

is this a personal attack or not? Azmoc 11:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It has been suggested that User:Azmoc was User:Ackoz. This pretty well confirms it. User:Zoe| 19:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

user:Gamesmasterg9 --- case of trolling on Vote Bank

This user has been found persistently indulged in Moving the page to different Titles after being unsuccessful in AFD for which he nominated the page .He has created new page Votebank and have done vandal redirects to this one which have now been fixed by redirecting to the old version.PLZ also see relevant talk on the page Votebank politics in India which has been shifted to this title by this user from Vote Bank.I recommend some admin action in this case.The user must recieve block for these disruptions.Holy---+---Warrior 17:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Laser Tag and WP:EL

On July 6 2006, I made this revert with VandalProof and has resulted in some problems. 65.78.112.37 (talk · contribs) then made this comment on my talk page and re-added the link here. In response and based on criteria at WP:EL, I cleared out links here with the edit summary of removed a great numer of links based on WP:EL (specific companies; dicussion-only forums; niche or small area tag sites, ect. that reported on other aspects and companies and clubs dealing with Laser tag. The IP then reverted my edits , commented on my talk page , and started commenting on the dicussion at Talk:Laser tag#External Link Discussion . I started stating some reasons why the links were removed in detail (IP responded and I responded to this with ). The IP then gave reasons for each link here, and I responded to each with this edit as did Sugarskane (talk · contribs) here. Both me and Sugarskane took a break and since then, the IP has responded with this, using our sleeping/work/ect as a reason to re-add the links. Even before this, Sugarskane had implored the IP several times to express why these links are needed .

Finally, I returned last night, saw the reentries to the ELs on the main Laser Tag page and reverted. The IP then left me this message, then user Whateverpt (talk · contribs) (most likely the IP, based on talk page comments and articles of interest) left this message, and the IP then left this message. I believe this is all to make a point by the IP to push his webpage that was the starting point of this mess.

I would VERY much like someone to take a look at this and respond. I am going to walk away now, because the time I spent on this the other night, and the time I am spending now reported this, could be used for most important things like creating articles, WP:CVU, and helping to wikify articles. Thank you for who ever can respond. Cheers! -- moe.RON 17:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, User:Whateverpt created the article Actual Reality, which seems not to be notable enough for inclusion, but since I have mentioned all of the above, I will refrain from "prod"ing or "csd"ing it. They have also include the webpage I have brought into question above in the article as a external link. -- moe.RON 18:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Moeron, you've done a great job removing all those external links. That other user(s) is QUITE in the wrong here. Simple case of overlinking. --InShaneee 18:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I originally commented out the entire external link section and asked someone with more experience to the topic to look over the section. There were a few links that, during the discussion, I thought might be good to keep around. Could a non-biased, more experienced, admin look at the following and consider them for inclusion?

• Miles Tag DIY Laser Tag System
• Laser Forums
• Frag Tag

"Non-biased, more experienced"? --InShaneee 20:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Non-biased -- someone that hasn't been dealing with Whateverpt... More experienced -- someone that knows the EL stuff better than I do. Do any of the above links seem valid for inclusion? --Sugarskane 16:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Good job Moeron. And shame on whoever is that IP for blatant lack of civility. Pascal.Tesson 20:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. "Actual Reality" is mentioned VERY breifly an almost inconsequentially in the article. The link that was readded was to a site with what appears to be a particular company's laser sensor (and possibly equipment). Its almost useless to the reader of the article. Also one of the diffs I checked with a brief arguement by the anon is a straw man arguement ("the other links are still there" and its relatives). Last, the other diff I saw with 5 or so links added is clearly not a good idea. Kevin_b_er 00:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Azmoc

Azmoc (talk · contribs) has only one edit to article space, but spends all of his time making uncivil remarks and attacks. I have blocked him for 48 hours (the second time he has been blocked) for this threat of vandalism. User:Zoe| 19:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

81.36.29.122 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

This guy simply doesn't follow wikipedia's standards. He continuosly makes edits to Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2 without showing any proof, then when asked, still doesn't until he gets close to breaking the 3rr. Even then, he claims other experienced and respected user's to be idiots or stupid, makes various personal attacks, and blanks user's comments. He ignores all warnings given to him, and has been given countless chances to stop his hostile behavior/vandalism. I am becoming very stressed with this retunring vandal, as he uses different IPs to escape blocking, and is very stuck up. It's becoming a challenge for me to not make personal attacks myself.--KojiDude (talk) 20:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Port scanning

I'm wondering why I'm getting this.

16:55:56 Port Scanning has been detected from 207.142.131.228 (scanned ports:TCP (4749, 4748, 4746, 4742, 4744, 4745))

15:59:46 Port Scanning has been detected from 207.142.131.228 (scanned ports:TCP (3179, 3146, 3181, 3184, 3182, 3183))

(timestamp is in gmt-4) This is a Wikimedia IP. I've been getting this intermittently for the past 12 hours. Just thought I'd make a note of it someplace. — Nathan _{/ 20:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)}

Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical) might get more response. --pgk 20:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll post it there too. If you feel you need to remove the post from here, go right ahead - I'll be watching both places. — Nathan _{/ 20:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)}

User 68.96.102.166 - please unprotect talk page, he's vandalizing again

The block for IP editor 68.96.102.166 has apparently expired, because he is making a mess. He's blanked the Talk:Newbie page, redirected Floob from Newbie to Wright brothers, and I can't warn him because his talk page is protected. Could someone lift the talk page block and/or reblock him? Thanks - Baseball,Baby! 22:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Unprotected (you know, that's the reason I was one of the few against allowing blocked users to edit their user talk pages...). --cesarb 22:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

personal attack and/or death threat

From

"Now at least I know there are some people who personally cannot stand me here and will do anything to delete any content I enter - even if they are too stupid to notice that the joke is on them. There is only one way to deal with bullies - a gun. If you are collecting my articles, you must to be shot to save humanity, per your own definition - a Darwin Award.".

Phr (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Indef blocked. --mboverload@ 22:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Awww... that was the most amusing nutjob I've seen in ages! Check out his user page if you haven't already. the wub "?!" 22:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The current page is nothing more than a "user banned" notice. I assume you meant to link here. -- llywrch 02:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That's a surreal userpage. --Lord Deskana (talk) 22:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that makes me sad. Phr (talk) 23:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

There's a tiger if I ever saw one. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to clear off the "novel" the user posted on their talk page? Paul Cyr 23:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Sarner and User:DPeterson

I've blocked User:Sarner for 48 hours for the following personal attack: . There's some nastiness going on here; I first became aware of it when I denied a very inappropriate speedy deletion tag on Advocates for Children in Therapy (see ), which itself could have merited a block, but instead I gave a stern warning. I left WP for the day and came back to find they'd had a bit of a fight on my talk page. Advocates for Children in Therapy has now been nominated by Sarner for deletion; his reasoning consists of a LOT of failing to assume good faith. I invite others to review the situation. Mangojuice 01:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:SandyGeorgia - out of control?

Sorry to bring this up again but it seems this user is now totally out of control.

Here she is accusing another editor she is engaged with in an edit war on Hugo Chavez and Criticism of Hugo Chavez of "personal attack" for politely asking her to "keep a cool head" and expressing his opinion, well within guidelines, on her edits (this seems particularly mean-spirited to me as English is User:SuperFlanker's second language and it must be so stressful for him to have his usage constantly critiqued and micro-managed in this way).

Here she is using User talk:Torinir‎ for her own personal attacks and dialogue because he was going to close Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-19 Domineering Editor on Asperger Syndrome, as she had requested herself but was actually beaten to it by User:Kylu(???).

Here she is trying to misrepresent the final edits on the previous WP:ANI thus and .

I am posting this here because it is impossible for me to negotiate with a person who manipulates like this and I honestly do not want to get into some kind of personal, ongoing war with her, but this behavior CANNOT be right? --Zeraeph 02:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Misrepresentations again. It looks like I've acquired a friend for life.

I did not request the mediation be closed: on the contrary. Zeraeph is pointing to a copy of my post here, on AN/I. I have suggested that this be taken to proper channels, which *is* mediation. I requested the case be closed here on AN/I, because Zeraeph's previous comments did not belong here. User:FrancisTyers already requested that he not post about it here. Dispute resolution belongs on MEDCAB. Yet, here it is again, although Zeraeph has still refused to talk directly with me about his allegations, and requested that the Mediation be closed before it was even started.

I have reminded another editor that if he continually characterized legitimate edits as vandalism, that could be interpreted as a personal attack.

And Zeraeph came into a conversation I initiated with the mediator, when he quickly closed the mediation case that was and still is sorely needed. Sandy 03:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Once again User:SandyGeorgia is making statements that do not accord with the facts of her behaviour in the histories thus:

She says: I did not request the mediation be closed: on the contrary."

I will admit that I have only just noticed that the statement that seemed to indicate her wish for 2006-07-19 Domineering Editor on Asperger Syndrome to be closed (Per the instructions at the top of this page (Please be aware that these pages aren't the place to bring disputes over content, or reports of abusive behaviour — we aren't referees, and have limited authority to deal with abusive editors. We have a dispute resolution procedure which we recommend you follow. Please take such disputes to mediation, requests for comment, or requests for arbitration rather than here. Please do not post slurs of any kind on this page, and note that any messages that egregiously violate Misplaced Pages's civility or personal attacks policies will be removed.), I respectfully request that this issue be taken to proper channels, and struck from this page. This doesn't seem to have the best means of addressing the issue, or the right place for it. Thanks, Sandy 16:28, 20 July 2006 (UTC)) was, in fact, a copy and paste from the previous WP:ANI, which human error I regret, however I responded to it as the request to close 2006-07-19 Domineering Editor on Asperger Syndrome I sincerely believed it to be here thus: ::I am in agreement, though I initially hoped it might be possible to resolve this issue here, which is why I made the request, but since I saw the responses on WP:AN/I I now realise that would be inappropriate, as well as impossible --Zeraeph 18:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC) more than three days ago, which should have made the misunderstanding abundantly clear, as well as my feelings on the topic, as I have also done in on her own talk page .

She says: :I have reminded another editor that if he continually characterized legitimate edits as vandalism, that could be interpreted as a personal attack.

And yet in this edit she clearly states (follow links for full picture):::::I could accept your apology, but you have just done it for the third time. This is your third warning now to refrain from attacking my character or motives or good faith editing. I am not vandalizing, I am not retaliating, and I am certainly calm. As you know, we've had conversations before about your attempts to paint me as hysterical, and I will not accept any more personal attack characterizations, either on talk page or in edit summaries. Please refrain from describing me as retaliating or vandalizing in edit summaries, and please refrain from referring to my emotional state, unless you are able to see through your computer into mine. I am certainly calm, and expect these personal attacks to stop. Sandy 22:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

She says:And Zeraeph came into a conversation I initiated with the mediator, when he quickly closed the mediation case that was and still is sorely needed. Sandy 03:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

And yet, in this edit it can be clearly seen that, in fact User:Kylu closed the case, which fact I was about to communicate to when I saw this edit and this edit stating: Not so fast :-) The user appears to have started that mediation for the sole purpose of harassing me, he didn't back up a single allegation, and the case needs to be closed in a way that I'm also satisfied. Sandy 23:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand. But he initiated the action for one reason only; he gave not an ounce of evidence for anything, smeared me on AN/I, MedCab, the AS talk page, and my talk page. I have recorded the final AN/I statements on the MedCab case, and will make a final statement there, because it was not a genuine attempt at mediation. It was a smear. Sandy 23:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC) which, coming from the same person I had just seen, in this edit instruct another editor to please refrain from referring to my emotional state, unless you are able to see through your computer into mine. made her claims to know my motivation in a far more complex way seems very hypocritical and vexatious to me. As though there must be one liberal standard for User:SandyGeorgia and another, far more rigorous one every user who does not suit her, to be policed by User:SandyGeorgia.

When I tried to communicate with her, by her own admission she simply disregarded every word I said thus: (making exactly the same assumptions about me that she fobids other editors to make about herself.

At this stage I do not know any way to communicate civily with a person who consistently misrepresents facts and insistently applies double standards, and I do not know what can be resolved by mediation with a person who constantly re-invents history and refuses to deal in the facts.

I have already explained, in several places such as (:I do not see any realistic way to resolve any problem directly with any person who's only attempt at resolution is to distort the facts as Sandy has chosen to do below and in other instances. Resolution is dependent upon change, not pretence. --Zeraeph 18:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)) why I feel I made a serious error in judgement in thinking this could be solved by mediation, which I now fully acknowledge. --Zeraeph 04:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Now that you see the misunderstanding (that I did not request mediation be closed), I hope you will either speak directly with me, e-mail me, or re-open mediation, and refrain from further entries here. As Francis explained to you, this is not the right place for dispute resolution. Sandy 04:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

All of the above are out of the question. I cannot, and will not, participate in any form of dialogue with a person who is manipulative and is not truthful, for many reasons, not least of which is the sheer futility of attempting achieve resolution in the face of that kind of behavior.

When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn.

This is not a "personal dispute" of any kind. This is an issue of User:SandyGeorgia's abusive behavior towards other editors and manipulation of WP:Policy to suit herself. I am not prepared to enable that to go on covertly. --Zeraeph 05:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Second mediation refused. Sandy 05:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It should be obvious from my comments above that I will decline to participate in any dialogue or mediation involving User:SandyGeorgia. If any Admin wishes to mail me for a, strictly private ,further explanation please feel free.

I find it telling that User:SandyGeorgia has not acknowledged, let alone attempted to explain, the two blatant lies she told, and I showed evidence of, on this board tonight. --Zeraeph 05:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I find it 'telling' that you wouldn't participate in mediation, myself. Without investigating terribly far, I'm troubled that both of you are making personal attacks at each other above. --InShaneee 06:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Repetitive category deletion attempts

I'm an administrator but I'm a little biased so I figured I'd ask for an impartial ear. Isn't there some unwritten rule about nominating categories for deletion over and over?

• Attempt 1
• Attempt 2
• Attempt 3 and now...
• Attempt 4

If they were whacked on the first or even second attempt, I wouldn't say much ---- but FOUR now?! All within an eight-month span.

Moreover, this time, the categories weren't even tagged until three days after the CFD was started so if you're like me and don't keep close tabs on WP:CFD, then you end up only being the fourth or fifth vote which is clearly a disadvantage.

What gives?! —Wknight94 (talk) 03:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

They appear to each be nominated by different editors, who presumably all independently thought they should be deleted and didn't know there had already been a discussion about it, as most of the talk pages don't mention the previous CfDs. The two recent ones are also several months apart from the others and each other. Tagging them incorrectly is bad, but I think it is pretty likely that these users just all thought they should be deleted. —Centrx→talk • 08:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Pppppfffttt. Oh well.... Sour grapes = —Wknight94 (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

rootology (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

This user is tagging article after article for deletion to "illustrate a point" relative to the current Encyclopedia Dramatica AfD. A little warning might be in order. Thanks. (→Netscott) 04:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

This user's own words, "I'm trying to demonstrate". Definitely fits the definition of POINT. (→Netscott) 04:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Every one of the SEVEN tagged articles are minor ones that warrent PROD and all fail a variety of things. Some of them have support from others to delete. What disruption? I can't PROD articles? rootology 04:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's assume good faith here. He could have used other accounts--which I believe the wikipedia's rules are like ebay's: none can be blocked and they can't interact on the same articles, and it's allowed--so his actions would not be watched, but he didn't. assume good faith? Hardvice 04:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Rotology's words, "I'm trying to demonstrate that the WP:WEB for wikis overall are valid to keep". Tagging article after article for deletion to illustrate your point is not the way to do things. You're just going to cause problems and anger folks who in seeing your POINTed behavior are likely to start editing in retaliatory ways relative to yourself and further disrupt Misplaced Pages. (→Netscott) 04:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Hardvice, according to User:Tony Sidaway you're on notice for trolling over this issue... you're not in the best position to be discussing this matter. (→Netscott) 04:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that "he didn't try to hide his rule violations" is hardly a saving argument. --InShaneee 04:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's okay for people to make points while NOT disrupting Misplaced Pages. I don't see how those articles are inappropriate to nominate, nor how the AfD debates that might result (if the PRODs don't go through) would be disruptive any more than any other debate. To me, WP:POINT use of deletion process involves either (1) tagging of articles that are clearly worthwhile, or (2) tagging of articles for disingenuous reasons (such as, because they are edited by an editor someone else is in a dispute with). Mangojuice 04:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's understandable that in light of hardvice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)'s own pointed demonstrations he'd be inclined to defend User:Rootology. Both of these users should be blocked for an extended period of time. (→Netscott) 04:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Mass AfDing/PRODing is going to rile folks up especially given the environment it's been done in. Doing that just causes hard feelings and inclines people to act in retaliatory ways... (→Netscott) 04:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Netscott, I'm actually not trolling. I am expressing myself. I am inclined to think you are the one trolling: following root around, personal attacks on me here, and stirring up trouble. Hardvice 05:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to say that if the only way we can reference an article is by it's homepage, then that may indeed not qualify it as an encyclopedia entry under WP:RS. Though that is just a guideline, not policy, if we are not able to find reliable secondary sources about the subject, it may not be notable for inclusion.--MONGO 05:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Netscott also posted (I believe to Tony's Talk page) that we should have an official WP policy against articles on subjects that criticize Misplaced Pages. I don't think I should be banned for anything. Look at the replies to WP:WEB on my post. Compliments, civil discussion. "Good job on the PRODS". Hipocrite and Netscott are e-stalking my activities I think, given I stood up against them in good faith. ED is gone from WP. They can come back when they eventually get more notable, and when they do should be welcomed back the same as any other "notable" subject. I prod'd articles that are lacking. Would it be not disruptive if I did "one"? Or is seven too much? If I find 5,492 articles merit deletion per policy, am I not allowed to PROD? If I find (somehow) 15000 or 100000, should they not go because it's a big number? I don't understand this. I never wandered into any of this admin stuff before. I edited my cheerful little projects, and while digging around for the one baby project I started, I found Habbo Hotels mess. That led to this. If I get banned, ban. I'll appeal to ArbCom if I have to. This is absurd. Thanks, I'm done and am unwatching this page now. Apparently only people popular in the right cliques can "be bold". rootology 06:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Leaving aside for a moment the evidence of disruption, nominating those articles is, on the whole, uncontentious: none of them appear to have reliable secondary sources, and most can easily be dealt with in a single sentence in some other article. MONGO is right - if the only source is the site itself we really can't cover it per policy. Just zis Guy you know? 12:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

AOL Vandal Fun (again)

The AOL ceiling cat vandal is back, this time with ]. We've been reverting him like crazy for the last 20 minutes, but the ip's keep changing. I know a lot of you have dealt with this on a routine basis...any ideas? I'm about to call it a night, and I've got nothing. I'm not sure a block would really help. Alphachimp 06:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmph. Wasn't there supposed to be a fix for the AOL proxy issue a while ago? Zetawoof 22:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Copy-paste move redirect vandalism

Comanche cph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) made Ragnarök a redirect to Ragnarok and then proceeded to copy-paste the content of Ragnarök over to Ragnarok. I have reverted these edits, but I am not sure as to how long they will stay as such. Ryūlóng 08:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't call it vandalism? Do you use more user names since you come from no where and call it vandalism?

Ragnarok is the English word, and this a English wikipedia right? Ragnarök is not the old Norse word. But the Icelandic. Look at how the article Midgard looks like. On that way this article should be. Or do you also think that we should change that article to "Miðgarðr"

The letter "ö" is not in the English alphabet. --Comanche cph 10:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The correct approach is to move the article from one name to the other. Copy-pasting it destroys the history (essentially, it makes it look like you wrote the entire current article by yourself in one sitting.) If the move can not be made because something already exists at the old name and the system will not permit the move, you should list is at Misplaced Pages:Requested page moves for an admin to do it properly. If the move is contested, you should have a discussion first on both talk pages. Thatcher131 10:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Just because the letter "ö" is not in the English alphabet does not mean the article should be named without the ö. There are plenty of articles on the English Misplaced Pages about non-English topics that are named with special characters in the title. WP:MoS-JA will rename articles so they are named with Hepburn Romaji and use characters such as ā, ō, and ū. The move is also contended at Talk:Ragnarök, partly because "Ragnarök" is the Old Norse spelling of the work, and that spelling is used in the modern Swedish language, as well as on other non-English Wikipedias (off the top of my head, the French Misplaced Pages uses ö in their spelling of "Ragnarök"). And what does the "Do you use more user names since you come from no where and call it vandalism?" accusation mean? Ryūlóng 21:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

4.243.215.217 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) abusing {{unblock}}

4.243.215.217 (talk · contribs) is abusing {{unblock}} on User talk:4.243.215.217. An admin told him to wait out the block, and he readded {{unblock}} with the reason: 'I don't wanna!'

He was blocked for engaging in personal attacks on his talk page. Due to this and the abuse of {{unblock}}, I seek protection of his talk page. Computerjoe's talk 10:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Hopiakuta

Hopiakuta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is adding a long, incomprehensible rant at various places, for instance at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias, User talk:Jimbo Wales, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Usability, claiming some article of his on racism has been deleted. (If the article was anything like his other writings, I'm not surprised.) I fail to see the encyclopedic usefulness of his/her contributions. Seems like a person who will very soon "exhaust the community's patience". Tupsharru 11:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

So far as I can tell, he was an IP editor when "my page but you deleted" happened. Under this account name, he has done nothing but talk pages and project talk pages, and in each of these cases has had something awfully Zen to say, in poetic form. He's quite a newbie to computers, and I assume his handicaps are causing the short lines, etc. So far, though, he seems exasperating, but I can't see where he has crossed a line yet. Geogre 12:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Just for information, he appears to be 71.102.31.67 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) --Lo2u 13:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

He seems to have been originally upset by an image which was at Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse/The Doppleganger, which was quickly removed when the issue was brought up. In response to this he created Misplaced Pages:Racism, attempting to outline the incident (somewhat incoherently), and seemed to be upset that a project of this sort did not already exist, implying that no one on Misplaced Pages cared about issues regarding to racism etc. (which I personally found somewhat insulting, but whatev.) I tried to inform him of both the two projects noted above, at which point he proceeded to copy and paste his grievances in multiple places, in a format which is very difficult to understand or read (perhaps because of disabilities). As Geogre says, frustrating, but Good faith nevertheless. Mak (talk) 17:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Robertsteadman, a.k.a. Robsteadman

Some of you will remember the case of Robsteadman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who engaged in lots of edit warring and abuse, and who used sockpuppets Robeaston99 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Vhjh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for votestacking, whose behaviour was generally rather hysterical, and who used to write things about "shallow and twisted" admins, "the 'christian' cabal" (lower case c and quotation marks to make the point that Christians don't exist, just as he uses lower case j and quotation marks for "jesus"), who constantly called other editors vandals and called for them to be banned, who accused an atheist admin of being part of the "christian" cabal when he protected a page, who used the sockpuppet Yummy mummy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to get an extra oppose vote at Deskana's RfA, who was finally blocked indefinitely for trolling and abuse, and who then made legal threats by e-mail because of the sockpuppeting accusations.

He returned a few weeks later as Robertsteadman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), was originally blocked again after refusing to say if he was the same person, and was then unblocked to give him another chance, and was put on probation.

A new user, Neuropean, who is very likely a reincarnation of Count Of The Saxon Shore (talk · contribs), with whom Rob(ert) was often in dispute, nominated Rob's article Anne Frank's cats for deletion. The article survived the nomination, but it was certainly not an inappropriate nomination, since several people voted to deleted as unencyclopaedic. However, it always looks bad for a new user to start with an AfD nomination. (Since Count Of the Saxon Shore was not a banned user, he had every right to start with a new identity if he so chose.) Robert then started on a clear vendetta against this user, filing two RFCUs (one on Neuropean himself, and one on an IP), both of which were rejected by Mackensen with a {{Fishing}} template. He then made numerous posts to WP:RFI about this user, calling him a vandal, a sockpuppet, and a stalker. He became heavily involved in wiki-stalking Neuropean, showing up at articles the latter had created or recently edited. By the way, it's obvious that he has been making a habit of editing articles that I have just edited as well, and Deskana and Frelke have noticed that he was doing it with them also.

This caused some distress to Neuropean, and he asked Rob on several occasions to stop. Rob continued wiki-stalking, and continued to accuse him of being a vandal, a sockpuppet, and a stalker.

I feel I should have acted sooner. By no means do I wish to imply that Neuropean was blameless, but after the stormy beginning, he showed that he wanted to move on, and made a few compromise offers to Robert. I do not think he will be back. He said he was suffering from depression. Nevertheless, I would like to ensure that this cannot happen again. We were too slow in putting a stop to it. I'm bringing this here for review, because I would like some support in making it clear that wiki-stalking and hurling round of unsubstantiated accusations of vandalism and sockpuppetry are not going to be tolerated, particularly from an indefinitely-blocked user who has been unblocked on probation.

I don't want to clog up the admin noticeboard, so I've created a subpage with more information here. I know it can be a bit of a bore to start looking through a case that you don't have any experience of, but I'd very much appreciate some reaction. And by the way, although I and Gator1 deleted Rob's user and talk pages at his request when he left, I have undeleted the earlier versions, so as to be able to provide evidence of his behaviour. Thanks. AnnH ♫ 16:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

So allowed back under a kind of probation, he has harassed another editor to the point of driving him off. I move for a community ban. If this doesn't happen for any reason we can try arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 16:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Ann has missed some vital information out about Neuropean being an internet stalker from another site who had followed me here, has used several different accounts to harrass me. Count of the Saxon Shore (Crusading Composer) etc. may not have been a banned user but should have been. The stalking, as Ann well knows, went beynd WP and the TES forum into real life - she was informed of all this. I do not deel I wiki-stalked him - I edited some articles he had edited once I looked into his actions. If I did something wrong I apologise. user: Syrthiss is well aware of all this and, from emails I have received, agrees that Neuropean was a trouble maker and agrees that evidence I have supplied him with shows a definite link to an internet troll and stalker from another web site. I think it is a great shame that Ann, knowing all of this, and being someone with whom I have had major disagreements with is now using this as a trump card to win an old battle over the Jesus article. Her entry here is truly the ultimate in bad faith edits. Robertsteadman 17:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry forgot to say, despite qwhat Ann says, and what WP turned up, I have not used any sockpuppets - that is false. At elast one has now told me who they are and it was a student of mine. Robertsteadman 17:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Given that six checkuser admins said that there was absolutely no doubt of sockpuppetry, and given that they knew you work in a school, there must have been much more to it than that, even though they never give details of what they find as they don't want to teach editors to get better at sockpuppeting. AnnH ♫ 18:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

This makes VERY interesting reading - perticularly the "sudden" reappearance of Count of the Saxon Shore.... how very odd. Robertsteadman 17:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've already agreed that Neuropean is probably Count Of The Saxon Shore, so I don't think there's anything odd about him reappearing after I had said that I had undeleted your talk page. He knows that there's some nasty stuff that he wrote on that talk page, and so he logged on as COTSS to protest against the undeletion. That's not a violation of policy, he wasn't taking extra reverts or votes, and I doubt if he'll be back. AnnH ♫ 18:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Last time I checked, indefinatly blocked users weren't allowed to use sockpuppets to come back. RfCU, anyone? --InShaneee 18:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

There was an RfCU, which showed that Robsteadman and Robertsteadman were the same. See here. It lists his other sockpuppets too, with the exception of Yummy mummy, but the checkuser for that is reported here. His return was discussed here, and he was unblocked on probation according to conditions set here. I agreed to allow him back, but I think it's a bit much that an indefinitely-blocked user who returns without permission and is then kindly permitted to resume activity keeps hurling the word "sockpuppet" at another editor who (if it really was Count Of The Saxon Shore) was not indefinitely blocked, and was therefore perfectly permitted to return, and was also free to start afresh with a new identity, and was not using the newly-registered account to get extra votes or reverts. AnnH ♫ 19:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've been thinking and indefinite block is in order for some time now... --Lord Deskana (talk) 18:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do. I'm astonished that Neuropean's self-control and lack of hostility still made him susceptible to such bullying behaviour. If this discussion stays around for a couple of weeks and is then forgotten about and RobertSteadman continues to edit as normal it sets a very bad precedent. --Lo2u 19:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not an admin, but I'd like to voice support for an indefinite block. -Hit bull, win steak 20:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and indefinatly blocked him as a sockpuppet of an indefinatly blocked user. --InShaneee 21:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it was quite right to make the official reason sockpuppet of banned user, since he had been unblocked and allowed back on parole. However, I do support the block on the grounds that his indefinite block was lifted on condition that he behave himself, and that he resumed his abusive behaviour. It's not even a question of blocking him for his recent behaviour, bad though it was: it's simply that he was already indefinitely blocked and when he was given another chance, he started upsetting other editors, bullying and wiki-stalking. I honestly don't think he's able to change. AnnH ♫ 21:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Can someone explain exactly what happens with an indefinite block. Can it it be lifted by a different editor without notice. Its not quite permanent is it ? Frelke 21:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's technically possible for any admin to unblock an editor blocked by another admin. It should not be done without thoroughly discussing it in advance, either with the blockin admin, or, if he's not available, here at AN/I. Unfortunately, some admins do unblock without discussion, and sometimes original blockers reblock, leading to a wheel war. Let's hope that any further action will be discussed in full here before any overturning of the block is considered. AnnH ♫ 21:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I support an indefinite block. I have seen his behaviour on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Thunder Bay Northern Hawks (2nd nomination), then his wiki-stalking members of WikiProject Ice Hockey that disagreed have with him. -- JamesTeterenko

Personal attacks against and possible harassment of User:Wzhao553

Wzhao553 has notified me that Logoi, with whom he is in a long-term dispute over the Asian fetish article, has been posting Wzhao553's personal information on his talk page (User talk:Logoi). As far as I could tell, most of this has to do with the fact that Logoi revealed the location of Wzhao's blog. Dark Tichondrias mentioned the blog in a separate post on Logoi's talk page. In addition, Logoi was also making personal attacks against Wzhao and then erasing them, so that they did remain in the page history. Is it appropriate, in this case, where Wzhao is claiming that Logoi is harassing him, to edit out comments with the link to the blog? And/or should Logoi's talk page be refactored and protected? --Idont Havaname (Talk) 17:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Istartfires

This user has in the last few minutes done a long series of bot-like edits, wikilinking one word on a many pages. Many of these are very dubious--ceded, high, etc., links to disambig pages or redirects. It's not vandalism, but I don't know how to communicate with him about this clearly. I would like him to slow down and do what he's doing more carefully, since a lot of these will end up being reverted if he keeps going as is. Can someone look at his contribs please? Thanks. · rodii · 18:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Reverted seeming random Wikilinks and asked for a reason (no response yet); another admin blocked 24h. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This article is getting a high number of revert's so I think it's urgent, and necessary to bring here. Requesting Semi Protection due to large amount of vandalism. Hello32020 19:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Large revert war going on Hello32020 20:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind it was just protected Hello32020 20:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

For future reference WP:RFPP is the appropriate place for page protection requests. --pgk 21:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User talk:VelairWight

This user talk page has been vandalized a few times in the last couple of days by what appear to be sockpuppets of Dorsoduro (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who was indefinitely blocked for vandalizing this same user's user page. The vandalizing accounts are The return of Dorsoduro (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), , and Gyt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), . There is also a possibly related IP edit, . Since these accounts are likely sockpuppets and their only edits were to vandalize this user's page, they should be blocked, and if vandalism from their IP or IP range continues, then that should be blocked for a little while. —Centrx→talk • 20:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked both reg users, the IP's block has expired—no activity since, but the user should clearly be watched based on the contribs. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Elkman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Can someone take a look at his recent contributions? They seem like calculated disruption of the sort I am often accused of. He made Pink fuzzy bunnies a few days ago with what's now at Highway 33 (Minnesota) - see for his rationale. --SPUI (T - C) 21:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll admit that Pink fuzzy bunnies was a mistake borne out of frustration of this situation. As for the rest... well, let's just say that I'm off the Minnesota State Highways project. I'm not sure why I ever got involved in the highways project in the first place.

Basically, since I've created and/or modified a number of articles under the wrong title ("Minnesota State Highway (x)" instead of "State Highway x (Minnesota)"), that means I did something wrong. That, in itself, is a blockable offense. So I won't argue about the blocks being applied. Indeed, since I made a number of mistakes editing List of Registered Historic Places in Minnesota this afternoon, and since I wasted time and server space using AWB, I suppose it's going to happen anyway. --Elkman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC) (Note the short signature format)

Ah, you have not been blocked by anyone. Take a deep breath and calm down. :) FCYTravis 23:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Note: it was Elkman who added the {{vandal}} to the section title. I do not believe him to be a vandal. --SPUI (T - C) 22:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Fecil

This user has vandalized Seduction in the same way that it has been recently. At the very least, it seems like the article should be locked, but beyond that, I don't know how to get this activity to stop. Andrewski 21:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Essjay (talk · contribs) block of CovenantD (talk · contribs)

• Moved from WP:AN. Steve block Talk 22:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding this issue, I wonder if a another admin could take a look. I think the admin here chose a block way before necessary, to what otherwise appears to be a good user. Summary: yes, I think the user was making negative comments, but I don't think such an immediate block was called for. Thanks for your time. --Kickstart70-T-C 19:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've already asked Essjay on his talk page to clarify this, as I feel it is questionable. The comments by which led to the block of User:CovenantD are these: , , .

Essjay justified his block on the grounds of disruption. ., I find this highly questionable. I'm concerned that blocking was taken before any other form of dispute resolution. Blocks should be preventantive, not punitive, and as I commented to Essjay, this smacks of punishment to me. Looking at the block log , Essjay describes the disruption as being: "incivility and borderline personal attacks at RFCU". Now borderline personal attacks are no basis to justify a block, and nor is incivility. WP:BLOCK is clear on what constitutes disruption:

Sysops may block IP addresses or usernames that disrupt the normal functioning of Misplaced Pages, or pose any kind of threat to it. Such disruption may include (but is not limited to) changing other users' signed comments, making deliberately misleading edits, harassment, excessive personal attacks, and inserting material that may be defamatory. Users will normally be warned before they are blocked My emphasis.

I think this is a clear case of a badly issued block. Given the number of positions Essjay holds on Misplaced Pages, I would hope there are other issues behind this block. Otherwise, to me, it creates suitability issues for some of them. Steve block Talk 21:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it fair to ask Essjay to explain his block here before speculating further. We need to be clear, though, that the comments CovenantD made on the RFCU page were highly, highly insulting and completely inappropriate. I don't know where he got the idea that such behavior could ever be acceptable. Mackensen (talk) 22:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's fair to say that CovenantD lost his temper and said some inappropriate things in his frustration. It's also clear that CovenantD was being extremely impatient with RfCU, which has always been a slow process, but as he noted it was his first RfCU and he may not have realized how long they take. I think these are mitigating factors that should be considered. But I don't see what's "highly insulting" about the remarks, nor do I understand the "abuse" you cited in your initial decision to reject. I'm curious to know what you were referring to. Kasreyn 23:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you are reading different comments than I, or reading them in a different light, but while I agree they weren't helpful and were pretty negative, I don't see anything "highly, highly insulting" in any way. --Kickstart70-T-C 23:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not convinced of that at all, no. The first comment I link to above is an expression of frustration, after all, Misplaced Pages is not meant to be a bureaucracy and here is someone running into a bureaucratic log-jam. I don't think anyone is being insulted other than the process. The user showed good faith in asking how long it would take, and having received no reply over 24 hours later frusratingly quesried no response. The rest of his comments seem reasonable considering the replies given. I think your response there is just as inflammatory, to be perfectly honest. I can't see how you were personally abused. Nowhere on the page does it indicate length of delay in getting a response. The first comment is not a personal attack in any shape or form, I can accept a case being made that it is incivil, but it's not cut and dried. The other comments are attempts at fixing a perceived flaw in the system. I think there's demonstrable good faith in Covenant's prior edits, , , so I think respondents should have assumed good faith, and I don't think they have. I think this situation was escalated by the participants a lot further than necessary, and I think in disregard for user conduct policies. Let's be clear, no-one's conduct is acceptable after CovenantD expressed frustration, but nothing that needed blocks to be issued for. The phrase "storm in a tea cup" springs to mind. Steve block Talk 23:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

His remarks go far, far beyond normal frustration, and his insinuations were maddening. Checkusering is extremely stressful work, and Essjay's right about the repeated abuse we experience carrying out our task (the nasty emails, the death threats, the tirades, the incivility, the refusal to believe us when we identify sockpuppets, the conversations with Willy on Wheels). This is a question of customer service. He asked for something; fine. He gave no indication that the request was pressing–if it was an emergency one of us could have been directly notified. He then began making a series of personal attacks, each worse than the last. Finally, I have some time and I wander over the Checkuser page. This is what I find. It's always nice to know that the hours upon hours of sacrifice are appreciated. Mackensen (talk) 23:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, asking seriously, give us direct links to the 'personal attacks'. I, for one, am not seeing anything that qualifies under any reasonable definition. Further, he should not suffer for the actions of others. --Kickstart70-T-C 23:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll also note that Checkuser is restricted because of its sensitive nature and is a measure of last resort. The clerks explained politely and responded negatively. Mackensen (talk) 23:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I don't see that they do go beyond normal frustration at all. Given your answer it appears you had the wrong frame of mind when judging his comments. The user had already noted he was new to the process, and was suggesting reasonable ways to fix the process based on having no understanding of the process. He did give an indication that the request was pressing, . I'd also note you have no idea whether CovenantD was undergoing stress caused by his mediation of the dispute at the page indicated. All of us are volunteers. You criticise CovenantD for his frustration, yet seem oblivious to your own frustration and posting based on that. Your actions are equatable to CovenantD's. DOes this mean I should block you for 24 hours? I still can see no personal insult to you personally. That you took comments personally is one thing; that they were meant personally is another. I don't think you have considered the possibility that any attack was meant personally, but rather at the system which appeared to the user to be broken. If no-one watches the page for 24 hours, is it not reasonable to ask if we can have more checkuser enabled editors? Especially if you are told there are only 2 active in the 14. That seems like a flawed process to me. We all make hours and hours of sacrifice. I'm afraid to me your contention that a series of personal attacks were made is not born out by the edits in question. I accept the clerks responses were perfectly polite. I can't see that CovenantD's response was impolite, and I can't see how you and Essjay justify your responses, nor Essjay his block. I'm also concerned by the flaws this dispute throws up. Should checkuser requests be judged on the merits of the case? If not, there is a worrying precedent set here. Steve block Talk 23:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I'd worry about that sort of abuse causing our (volunteer) checkusers to "take a break" and cause other checkuser requests to lag, just because one person was impatient. Blocked or not, if CovenantD was that worked up over something on Misplaced Pages, it's about time to go do something non-Misplaced Pages for a bit. I'd suggest the new Pirates movie. *nod* Very good. Depp's a hottie. Ayep. ~Kylu (u|t) 23:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't quite balance one volunteer's frustrations higher than another volunteer's. They all impact upon Misplaced Pages. If that's how the checkuser system operates, I'd question considering another model. But CovenantD tried that and was blocked. He did do something else for 30 hours. I don't know. I remember voting in Essjay's RFA. I just can't see where Essjay got the idea these were blockable comments from. I can't see that no-one can accept some fault here or extend some understanding and good faith. Steve block Talk 23:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't commented on the block at all, and I don't plan to. :) I'd like to see the block pass, then all sides forgive and forget. While overhauling the current system might be good, I do beleive that there are regular proposals on how to do so and none that I know of have passed. As far as volunteer status goes, imho the reason Essjay has all those nifty +flags is because he's trusted by the community to do the right thing: If a resource (such as active checkusers) is endangered, the community should either try to create more of the resource and/or protect the resource they currently have. Verbally assaulting the resources simply causes an already endangered resource in the persona of active checkusers to potentially vanish. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see how one sockpuppet voting in a straw poll can make all that much difference to an article. Even so, I made a very polite response to CovenantD's nagging and suggested an alternate means for resolving the article dispute he obviously feels strongly about. His response was to dump on the checkusers (as a whole, as I read it). To paraphrase Essjay, people forget that nearly everybody working on wikipedia is a volunteer. Perhaps some members of the Arbitration committee should work on the RFCU page instead of the 28 outstanding cases they have right now. Or Brion V could drop his development work on the wikimedia software to help CovenantD win some content dispute. Last week, Essjay identified and reported a long-time apparently "good" editor who had a long-term record of creating vandal sockpuppet accounts, and the community reaction was a big yawn and a week long block. This week Jayjg's integrity has been publicly questioned in at least two places by an administrator he caught using a sockpuppet to evade a block for 3RR, and Mackensen has been harranged on his talk page over at least three declined requests before CovenantD came along. You're lucky to have checkusers at all, and you may find yourselves looking back on the halcyon days when a checkuser request took only 2 days to be answered. Thatcher131 00:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, Thatcher131. Part of the problem with checkuser is the difficulty in the process that's assigned to it. Technically, I could do the actual checkuser lookup, but socially I wouldn't touch it with a fifty foot pole manipulated by a radio-controlled robotic arm. Look at the Socafan (or whatever his name was) incident where he griped about Essjay revealing the country in which he resided. Actually, look at every five or so RFCU requests since the page began: there's no shortage of gripes and abuses heaped upon those who we're supposed to be trusting with this sensitive information. Now, if he took all the usernames that edited Tiannamen Square and checkuser'd them and reported them to the PRC, I could see that being an issue. If I had someone request that I write an article on my talkpage, I'd consider it. If they demanded such and were nasty about it, I'd tell them to go bugger off in so many words. I think the exact same thing happened here, just with different privelege levels involved. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

On what Thatcher has said, it used to take a lot longer, and the page was considerably less nice than it is right now. Also, the diffs presented are not entirely perfect, as shortly after making a comment, ConvenantD changed the wording from "Time to get more people." to "Time to replace some people.". Basically a call to fire some checkusers and get new ones because they aren't responding instantly to a request. There's no timeframe listed there, insted a resort to attacking the a volunteer process to use a sensitive tool. Kevin_b_er 01:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

User:TJ Spyke

Could someone kindly tell TJ Spyke that calling my good-faith edits "trolling", is against WP:NPA. I tried nicely to tell him, but he keep reverting my edits with edit summaries of "Lousy trolls" and "STOP CHANGING THAT YOU TROLLS". Although I don't agree with his edit summaries, I also don't agree with his edits either because my edits have a source, which I provide, but he persistantly remove them saying I'm trolling which I'm not. 209.214.141.10 22:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not the first time he's done this, and user is a bit of a revert warrior besides. Warned. --InShaneee 22:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, he also said he was sorry if he offended me, which I accept if that was apology. 209.214.141.10 22:24, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Taylor Iosefo

Could somebody with the proper authority remove the history of this attack page? User:Zoe| 22:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

And the same thing at Peter MCcoy, please? User:Zoe| 22:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Taylor Iosefo & Peter MCcoy 's deleted histories appear to contain no information suitable for oversight application. The pages are already deleted and not available to non-admins. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Link spam and possible threat

While I am watching Xiaolin Showdown, this edit popped up: . While the user only put up a link to a Xiaolin Showdown fan RPG while also separating the notable TV.com from the Kids WB and Wizards of the Coast sites, his message is particularly poignant. I think he's just a link spammer, trying to advertise the RPG that he's a part of. While it is an AOL IP, something should be done. Ryūlóng 00:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

AOL IP, 15 minute block, Please drive through to the next window. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Lebanon

Someone want to take a look at this page? Seems there is, pardon the expression, a war breaking out. Fan-1967 01:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Page sprotected by User:Mark. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson trying to make CFR a vote

Can someone look at and possibly revert , and ? See also Template talk:Cfd2. --SPUI (T - C) 01:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

CFR might not officially be a vote, but it certainly is how discussion proceeds de facto, and changing the templates or page name won't change that any time soon. Circeus

We shouldn't be encouraging this though. After I substed the template I had to go back and edit out the bolded merge. --SPUI (T - C) 01:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Somebody apparently hasn't read the instructions. We have 3 templates, Delete is cfd, Merge is cfm, and Rename is cfr (plus cfr-speedy). Each logs its name. Not particularly difficult for those that read and follow instructions. This is not new, it's just SPUI wiki-stalking my contributions.

--William Allen Simpson 01:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

More like me listing something on CFD, finding an extra merge that I didn't want, and removing it. --SPUI (T - C) 01:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, what is this? Less than 10 people talking about changing CFD, now its not a deletion debate anymore, but insted a discussion with voting? Shouldn't need to have the forced "* '''Delete'''" at the start of any XfD template used to start a discussion. Kevin_b_er 01:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

CfD/CfM/CfR has always been a discussion with voting, and the templates are there for the folks that can read and follow instructions. The rest of you are free to make up your own words, which will be fixed to conform to the format the rest of us are using. We have to do that all the time!

As for only 10 people being involved, you were certainly free to join that procedural discussion, too. But things have been this way since long before I began using my well-known mundane name to edit here.

--William Allen Simpson 02:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm pleasantly surprised that William has apparently agreed to keep this out. --SPUI (T - C) 01:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Never mind - he's added it to the other templates. Better, as it's easy to remove, but still sets a bad example.

WP:POINT nominations are speedily closed.

--William Allen Simpson 02:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Furthurmore, why can I find no mention of this stuff in the history of the village pump on policy or proposals? Why is CFD now a vote with forced selections of wether it should be merged/deleted rather than need arrising through discussion like the rest of the deletion discussions? Kevin_b_er 02:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

When was it otherwise? What other deletion discussion(s)? The same formatting appears at RfD and TfD.

--William Allen Simpson 02:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Crap. That's a mess. It needs fixing. It's generally a bad idea to hold votes. We really prefer consensus, if that's ok with you. :-) Kim Bruning 02:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Its a deletion discussion, not a 'Separate activities to do to namespace discussion'. TfD and RfD don't have their templates automatically treat it like a vote and put "* '''Do this'''" in the created text. Only 10 people probably saw it because I would hope such a change occurs thourgh larger discussion. Kevin_b_er 02:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Silver and Kreese: Getting Down and Dirty

As far as I can establish this film is a hoax. There is no independent Google sourcing and it is not in IMDb. The article Silver And Kreese - Getting Down and Dirty has been prodded for this reason. If you check Martin Kove you will see that it has been repeatedly added by anons. I cannot remove it any more since I am at my 3RR limit. Can anything be done or must we accept that this article will contain a hoax film? BlueValour 01:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Is this a case for sprotection? At least until whether the "Down & Drty" movie is determined to exist. -- llywrch 02:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Shougiku Wine (talk · contribs)

moved from AN:

I'm not sure if I'm reporting this to the correct place, but Shougiku Wine (talk · contribs) is attempting to AfD Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Takeshima Islands (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) as part of a POV dispute over whether an article should be named Takeshima Islands (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) or Dokdo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The result of the POV dispute was the creation of a POV fork of the article. --TheFarix (Talk) 22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, Shougiku Wine has clearly moved into the realm of personal attacks against those who don't agree with him as well as using racial language. --TheFarix (Talk) 00:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Should be on /Incidents, but I've given 24 hours. Circeus 01:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Removal of Afd Tag

User:Rlk89 removed the afd tag of an ongoing afd I placed the afd tag back and asked the user not to remove tags from ongoing afds (as the template asks you not to remove them from ongoing discussions) and he removed the tag again saying in the edit summary "Conflict is resolved" even though the Afd is ongoing. I don't want this to turn into an edit war so I ask that an administrator intervene. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 01:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Forget it, the situation seems to have been resolved as he self-reverted his edit.--Jersey Devil 02:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Kelly Martin/R

I have blocked Kelly Martin for 24 hours for recreating of the above list, which I speedy deleted, as per my clear warning on her talk page. El_C 02:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I am extremely concerned that El C chose to block while he was involved in a conflict with Kelly Martin over this issue. In addition to taking a threatening and confrontational tone, I note that he was one of the individuals listed on Kelly's page. Regardless of whether or not it was appropriate for Kelly to keep such a list, it was definitely not El C's place to threaten and block here. I'm tempted to block El C for wheel warring (deleting and blocking while the issue was being discussed further up this page) and immediately unblock Kelly Martin, but I'm aware of the irony that would lace such a course of action.

I would encourage a rapid sampling of opinion here and if there is a general agreement Kelly should be unblocked so that she can at least participate in this discussion—and continue to work on Misplaced Pages, where she has been bloody useful for the last two years. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I am pleased to see that El C has reconsidered this block. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I reject that involvement and charges of wheel warring, and I only reverted myself because of you threats to block me. Now I will let you deal with her disruptive conduct and lists. You are contributing to KM's continued abuse of Misplaced Pages with these list games. El_C 02:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Kelly would, in her profound wisdom and infinite munificence, be willing to grant a boon to the lowly peons and offer some few words of explanation as to the purpose of the lists?

(I'll point out that "he was one of the individuals listed on Kelly's page" does not necessarily disqualify El_C from enacting blocks; this goes back to that whole hypothetical "If a user picks a fight with every admin, does that mean nobody can block him?" thing.) Kirill Lokshin 02:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

They're pretty much just being created to annoy people at this point. Somehow this is seen as perfectly acceptable behavior... yeah it's pretty silly. I guess it's effective trolling, but it's sad how many people are okay with it. Meh. --W.marsh 02:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The /R list was a list of random users with random colors assigned to them. There was absolutely no meaning to the list that El C deleted. I created it for one express purpose: to see if El C would jerk his knee and attempt to punish me for creating it. Considering that he previously deleted a harmless redirect and a blank page from my user space, I wasn't too surprised that he did. To an extent, this is disrupting Misplaced Pages to prove a point, but if the extremely minor disruption that this causes exposes a wildly irresponsible admin for who he is, I consider it worthwhile. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting lists. I wonder if they're one of those classic "secret list" social experiments. Kim Bruning 02:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC) (And once again, I'm not on them. Argh, no respect these days)

Seriously! What does a guy have to do to get on a secret list these days, anyway? --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

user:kjlee is using open proxies and is most likely a sock of user:lightbringer

user:kjlee started editting a few days ago and immediately/exculsively made edits to Freemasonry related articles exactly like a known banned user user:lightbringer. A Checkuser was requested and it was stated that he is using open proxies, which has been a tactic of LB in the past. Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse/Lightbringer has the information on this user and his MO. Can an admin please block his latest sock. Chtirrell 02:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Stop the madness

Okay people, listen up. Two things need to happen: people need to stop making lists, and admins need to stop blocking Kelly Martin. This has passed beyond ridiculous and borders on discrediting everybody with the sysop bit. If there's a real problem we have a dispute resolution process somewheres that we like to parrot. If, however, this is actually the Weekend Edition of Gorilla Theatre, then the joke isn't funny anymore and it's last call. Yours, Mackensen (talk) 02:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)