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Archives

Sept. 2005 - Sept. 2006

Avars

Please observe ettiquette and respond to the talk page invitation to discuss the material before reverting.Kaz 09:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Teimur and Moghuls

Salaam doost aziz, I think the Teimur and Moghulas were partly Turks and party Mongols. I might be wrong but did they not spoke Chagatay? --alidoostzadeh 03:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW would you have a look at the Anousheh Ansari article. Some users are trying to claim she is not Iranian because she accepted US citizenship.. Whereas this is just US law and according to Iranian law, if your father is Iranian, you are automatically Iranian. Plus she has referred to herself as an Iranian woman. Khoda Negahdar --alidoostzadeh 08:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Baraye "anthropology of Avars"

Salam bar to, baradar-e man az Ariana bozorg! Lotfan, bexan baraye "antropology of Avars" va javab bedeh, agar momken ast: "Liptak (1955) went into the details of Avar Period’santhropology in his candidate degree thesis.He stated his opinion that archeological chronology system was simply wrong.According to Liptak, too much cemeteries were dated for the 8th century and too few for the 7th and the 9th centuries.He pointed out as an obvious contradiction the fact, that 7th century, early Avar anthropological material was almost exclusively Europid, while grave-goods indicated Middleand Central Asian parallels. On the other hand there were cemeteries dated for the 8th century that contained Mongoloid elements among others. The attire and armament introduced by the Avars was rapidly adapted by other ethnic groups, it became the general fashion of the region in the 7th century.Therefore the separation of autochton elements was (and is)simply impossible by archeological means. That is why Liptak strongly emphasized that to talk of Avar Period population makes much more sense than to stick with the phrases of “the Avars” and of “Avar population”... Liptak outlined his view that the gracile Mediterranean type was autochton, while the brachycran Europid types were partly typical of the local inhabitants,partly they migrated to the Central Danubian Basin with the Avars. He found the origin of Cromagnoids, Nordoids and large stature Mediterraneans uncertain, and he indicated migration as the probable reason of their emergence. Liptak mentioned the Asiatic origin of Mongolid and Mongoloid population elements, but he did not go into the details of any closer relationship or parallel. Liptak analysed the Avar Period population of the Danube-Tisza midland region and stated that 80% of them was of Europid character.He separated narrow-faced dolichomorph types (Nordoid, Mediterranean) in 38%, broad-faced Cromagnoid types (A and B) in 22.6%, and brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individualsof undefined origin) in 17.1%... He found the tall stature, dolichomorph, narrow-faced variation (its frequency was 22%) non-homogenous. Liptk put the northern (Nordic) and tall Mediterraneans under this heading.He separated two regional varieties, a western(Atlanto-) Mediterranean one and an eastern or Indo-Iranian one...Liptak considered the gracile Mediterranean (Ibero-Cromagnoid types Insular) type the most significant component of the Avar Period population. The that were classified the descendants of the Upper-Palaeolithic Cromagnon race were rated important components of the Avar Period population by Liptak. He added that these types kept their significance in the Arpadian Age as well. The author put Pamirian (Pamiro-Ferganian), Dinarian, Alpine and Near Eastern (Armenoid types under the heading of brachycran) elements... Their presence was insignificant in the Avar Period. Liptak paid the most attention to the Turanid (South-Siberian)and to the Ural types from the Europo-Mongoloids. Noneof the two had much significance in the Avar Period, but they were dominant among the conquering Hungarians. Liptak identified and described in detail three kinds among the Mongoloids of the Avar Period: the Northern-Chinese(Chinid), the Central Asian Mongol and the palaeo-Siberian types. He considered the two later types the keycomponents of Avar Period Mongolids...Liptak voted for the dual origin theory when studying the ethnogenesis of the Avars.He called true-born (pure blooded)Avar (Varchonite) those small series which were characterized by Mongolid and Mongoloid features. According to Liptak’s opinion the progenitors of the Vachonite originated from beyond Lake Baykal,and they migrated into Southern- Central Asia only sometime later.From there they were forced out by the Turkis hpeoples, and so they escaped into the Central Danubian Basin.There were series with acomparatively high ratio of the Iranian type (Kiskoros-Varos alatt,Alattyan).Liptak named them ones with Hephtalite origin because he considered the Indo-Iranian Mediterranean type a significant ethnical component of the Hephtalites. This type could be traced back as far as Central Asia (Liptak1983)". Volume 44(1-4):87-94, 2000 Acta Biologica Szegediensis http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/ABS. Erzsébet Fóthi. Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods Acta Biol Szeged 2000, 44:87-94 Abstract PDF. SYMPOSIUM Department of Anthropology, Hungarian Natural History Museum, Budapest,Hungary Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods. Erzsebet Fothi.

Von mir auch: heutige Awarische Sprache hat sehr viele Germanisch-Baltisch-Griechisch und Ostiranische (Puschtu, Bergtadshiken) gemeine Woerter.--Awarenstuermer 16:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Your very knowledgable!

Great work on the Seljuk article. You have a lot of knowledge on the subject. Are there an books/articles you could refer me to so that I may also gain more knowledge?Khosrow II 00:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Help

Your help would be much appreciated on the Turco Iranian article. See history and the discussion page to catch up on whats going on. Zaparodjik is at it again...Khosrow II 20:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Seljuq Dynasty

Please see my replies in the talk page.. As soon as the article is unprotected I will be changing a Muslim dynasty to a Muslim Turkmen dynasty and add many sources to back it, some of them are already can be found in the talk page.. I will also be moving the article to Seljuk Turks per WP:NAME following a Google name test conducted where Seljuk Turks got 119000 hits to Seljuq dynasty's 500 or so hits.. The results can be found in the talk page. Should you disagree with this by blocking, edit-warring and reverting, I will refer the matter to an administrator and mediation if neccessary and report you for disruptive behavior.. If you check the history of page moves, you will see that a name with 119000 hits always takes precedence over a name with 500 hits, and any admin will agree with that.. This is the English Misplaced Pages, please don't forget this... Baristarim 14:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, you can blame me for being a pan-turkist or whatever, but pls take a look at my user page, as well, I am atheist, and a well educated man such as you would know that atheists don't become pan-turkists, nor pan-turkists want them to do so.. I am also a communist, so throwing out such insults by calling me nationalistic POV pusher is also inappropriate.. Seljuq dynasty can be discussed under Seljuk Turks.. Please look at what I posted on the talk page of the article, I also put sources about Seljuk dynasty being Turks, and not from some loony encyclopedia like enc:Iranica (ica??) but from Encyclopaedia Brittanica, whatever you might believe I bring my sources with me when I talk, Brittanica also refers to Seljuks as a Muslim Turkmen dynasty, when I will add these to the article, they will all be well-sourced from Britannica and others.. And don't warn me like I am some sort of school boy, I most probably know more about the world and travelled it more than you have.. I know wikipedia, I never said I was going to remove any sources, everything that I will add have proper and good sources (not the weirdo Iranica encyc, Brittanica is ten times better than that supposed encyc), read my posts on the talk page before trying to push your pan-iranist views.. This is also not afganistan where everyone makes a living by the death of young people (heroin) Baristarim 14:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

And you have already disqualified yourself by not responding to what Britannica says a Muslim Turmen dynasty and Seljuq Turks (seljuk-seljuq don't matter).. You are also here because your nationalistic views are hurt for some reason.. Turkey or Turkish people don't need a wikipedia article to tell them what is their history, so I couldn't care less about my nationalistic feelings getting hurt. You have also disqualified yourself by not understanding the difference between pan-turkist and communist and that they are completely incompatible.. Your attempts to discredit others by name calling won't get you anywhere mr pust-un. I also don't care where you are and what you do (hopefully not afganistan though as pointed above :)) but you also don't understand the fact that Iranians cannot impose on the English language, please go to a law and political sciences school to learn why Persian and Iranian would not be the same thing in English.. You can pretend that your definitions are valid, but so far you have not responded to my comments in the talk page.. I have my sources, Brittanica clearly refers to them as Seljuq Turks and as a Muslim Turkmen dynasty.. Even if your claims are true about iranica, Brittanica is still the standard as an encyclopaedia and your claim that they are some wanna-be experts who actually know nothing about the Seljuks or Muslim history (which, BTW, is the standard speech of ALL Pan-iranists in wikipedia) is not valid.. I will also add what I have mentioned about definitions with proper sourcing, and if you remove them be sure that admins will ban you. I have dealt with pan-iranism before and be sure that I will deal with it again.. This is also not the country where we build nukes in our garage so stop trolling... Baristarim 15:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Baristarim broke down on the Turko Iranian article discussion page. If we have to resort to reporting him, he made some interesting comments we could use as further evidence that he needs to be blocked.Khosrow II 16:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

is that what the Turkish education system has taught you in Turkey? or This is not Turkey, where every intellectual is put into prison because of "insulting the Turkish nation", yeah whatever, I have only replied to things you an Tajik have said, in exactly the same way.. There is no evidence that I have been disruptive, if I add something to the article, I will never remove something sourced.. So there you go.. Baristarim 17:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

سلجوقیان

What do you mean? The page is already protected. —Khoikhoi 20:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure, no problem Tājik, take care. —Khoikhoi 21:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Mediation for Scythian-related articles

Admin Alex Bakharev agreed to mediate our dispute over Ossetian Language, Scythia, and other disputes, to prevent future resorting to editing wars. Mediation is a required step in the WP conflict resolution procedure. Please contact # Alex Bakharev (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) The participants of the subjet editing wars were at least these parties:

• Ali doostzadeh and/or 69.86.16.239
• Khosrow II
• Jpbrenna
• Arash the Bowman
• Marmoulak
• Tajik

You may want to attract other your allies to this mediation effort

Barefact 20:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Dorood

Sure thing, but your knowledge is far greater than mine is. If it comes to having to debate with him, I'll try my best.Khosrow II 23:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I know exactly the difference between those.. He was Turkic, happy?? :)) OMG! I don't have a hatred of Iranians, where did that come from?? I am a communist, so get over it, I am not nationalist! I don't like nationalist people however. It is you who is rejecting Brittanica as not being authoritative, who r u to make such a judgement? Wiki is not the place for that, I brought in my sources, and that's all that is required.. I don't care if Iranica is better or worse, Brittanica is one of the best sources out there, I really don't care if u don't like it just coz it doesn't agree with certain pan-iranist nationalist views. lool Baristarim 03:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

That's why I added a Turkic conqueror and not a Turkish conqueror:)).. Baristarim 03:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

If I were u, I would try to be less disruptive than your sidekick kozie .. OMG! It is obvious who is being disruptive, Wiki also knows how to deal with disruptive people.. Funny thing is it was you who were telling me if you delete sourced statements or be disruptive you will be banned.. It is you two that deleted sourced info from Brittanica and was disruptive.. Baristarim 07:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, I apologize for deleting your posts from my talk page earlier, I put them back in (except some unconstructive remarks though :)). You are very knowledgable btw. fair is fair :)) Baristarim 07:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Islamic conquest of Persia

Can you take a look at the occupation section of Islamic conquest of Persia, some anonymous user has entirely re-written the language part of that section. Most of the text there seems POV, but I'm not sure. --Mardavich 11:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you check that Tajik, this is the edit I am talking about? --Mardavich 11:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Afghanistan

A reply has been posted on my talk page. — Edward Z. Yang 16:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Reply posted. — Edward Z. Yang 23:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Extensive Edits of Afghanistan

Well, I looked at some of the other edits by NasarKand, and can see the problems you mentioned earlier about removing sources (Herat) and POV. Sigh. I suspect he means well, but is just going about it in a rather aggressive way. KP Botany 00:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

This will not end well. Part of the problem is that the Afghanistan article is seriously biased towards the Persian history of the country, something you won't admit no matter what, that seems to be your POV--Nasar has latched on to this, and I can't argue with him about it, because he's right, and he made some necessary edits. However, whether this is your doing or not, the article needs changed to reflect a more NPOV about the history of Afghanistan. The Encyclopedia of Islam, by the way, does have Western and Arab biases of some Afghan issues--it's not necessarily the number one source on Afghanistan. Americans call Afghan Persian, Dari, after the style of the Dari and Persian researcher at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, by the way. While speaking English. And, the land of the Afghans, Afghanistan, is admitted to have been an entity for at least 3000 years by most all credible historical researchers.

Nasar is very well versed in the history of Afghanistan from an Afghan perspective. I suggest we keep trying to work together, including with Nasar, to make the articles on Afghanistan and Afghans excellent. It is an important subject with the Afghan diaspora bringing Afghans into the lives of English-speaking Westerners as never before. However, I don't see either of you attempting compromise or being the advanced guard of NPOV.

And, yes, there are serious problems with his edits, not just in the main article, but there are also some very constructive changes, but an edit war between the two of you won't go much anywhere.

The goal should be an excellent article about Afghanistan, nothing else.

Salaam, KP Botany 01:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Timur

What is the discussion about? Of course Persian culture was supported at his court yet at the same time his background was undoubtly Turo-Mongol. BTW it seems you speak German? If you do can you send me an email: alidoostzadeh@yahoo.com --alidoostzadeh 19:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Table of Tajik words

Hi! Thank you for adding the words in the table. Though, it seems rather Persian than generic Tajik dialect(?) due to presence of many Arabic borrowings. Anyway would be very useful.--Nixer 23:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Farhad Darya

Salam, Thank you for your contribution to Farhad Darya page. Please be sure to include a 'edit summary' when making changes to articles to make transparent you are not being sneaky or vandalizing the material. Also, if you changed Hindi to Hindustani, note that Hindustani refers to a person from Hindustan (aka India) and Hindi refers to the language of that country. I am not trying to make you look unintelligent but before making changes, make certain your text is the correct. This is an encyclopedia and everything is expected to be perfect. Please continue with your contributions...NeutralWriter

I think this is worth reading

This article put the multi-billion dollar opium-herion industry into scope in regards to Afghanistan. If you want to learn more about this aspect of Afghansitan and how it ties in witht he rest of the world and the world economy read this article.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061017&articleId=3516

Khorasan

Hi with regard to the whole Khorasan empire issue in the Ahmed Shah Abdali article. I don't mind the region being referred to as Khorasan, but the specific term ruler of khorasan has not been mentioned in any books I've read. If you have any references do post them on the discussion page.

Thanks

--Zak 14:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Afghanistan

Sure, I'll check it out. These are the times that I really which Tombseye was here, he would usually be able to work out some compromise. But unfortunately, he seems to have vanished. :-( It looks like Nisar is asking for sources at the bottom of the talk page, could you try to provide them? I think that would help, thanks. Khoikhoi 06:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to pay more attention. And hey, do you know how I can change my user name? Parsiwan 14:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

(to Tājik) Do you want me to protect the page? Khoikhoi 23:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Tajik, I was just about to revert back to that version. Thank you. Parsiwan 01:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is not enough recent activity (i.e. edit warring) to justify protection right now. I will keep an eye on the page, and protect it when things start to heat up. Khoikhoi 02:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. Khoikhoi 21:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And personal attacks by Tajik elsewhere

Tājik, WP:NPA Misplaced Pages has a policy about personal attacks. Please read this policy. Until you understand it and want to address the issue at hand, the Herat page, rather than discussing what you perceive as the "problem with ," there is no point in my reading your posts, and certainly no point in your using yours to attack me. Please cease with the personal attacks and discuss the issue only. Thank you. KP Botany 17:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The anon

If he reverted Farabi again, report him for 3RR violation, I've already warned him about the 3RR rule. --ManiF 15:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess I could protect that page too. Khoikhoi 02:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hephthalites

Please have a look at this article.Khosrow II 17:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkic peoples

Zaparodjik is back and hes putting in his POV edits again. He claims that the population of Turkic peoples is 208 million, while I added up the populations of Turkic peoples listed and got 120-150 million. Infact, the article itself has said 150 million for months. Please have a look.Khosrow II 17:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey buddy (Tajik), stop changing the page regarding Azerbaijan. You put your reasoning as "non-sense removed". That’s BS and you know it. You think you know things about the Azeri ppl. Do you even realize wtf changes you are making? The DNA analysis is all BS and everyone knows it. Don't change that, let it be. If you’re hating on Azeri and Turkic ppl then you have another thing coming. First and last warning. Do that again and see what happens. I aint threatening you, I am going to take other means of screwing you over. Thanks for understanding and have a great day.

P.S. Stop being racist.

Hey I just wanted to let you know that the Hammasa Kohistani picture is being put up for deletion

It will be deleted in 7 days according to

This:

Thanks for uploading Image:Hammasa np6.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Misplaced Pages are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}. If you have not already done so, please also include the source of the image. In many cases this will be the website where you found it.

Please specify the copyright information and source on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

That's what was placed on my talk page. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 10:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hey Tajik, can you please do me a favor and not call people "ultra-nationalists"? It's possible to get into a dispute with someone and remain civil at the same time. Thanks, Khoikhoi 02:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't just pretend like I didn't see anything when I see insults from someone...but I'll check out the Hephthalites article. Can you explain to me (real briefly) what the dispute is about? What do Britannica, Colubmia, Iranica, & other sources say about them? Khoikhoi 02:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

== User:E104421 and encyclopedias==

Tajik,

First, I would ask you to avoid the word vandalizing when talking about good faith edits. Vandalism are edits that are known to be wrong, and I am sure E104421 believed that he was doing the right thing removing the badly sourced material from wiki. So please next time say mistakenly blanks or erroneously blanks or stubbornly blanks or something in this line. Labeling vandalism the edits that are not is a serious personal attack and is unacceptable.

Regarding the validity of the EI and EIr, I have problems persuading E104421 since I have my own opinion yet - I have not used this reference. I believe you that this is a serious scholarly work but you really nee an expert to state that a particular article in Britannica is more biased than Iranica. By default people more trust Britannica, but we probably need to collect all the opinions of the reliable sources. I would try to help you in incorporating all sources, but maybe an uninvolved expert could help you (e.g. User:Dbachmann)? Alex Bakharev 06:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Persian people

See the corresponding talk page. What's your opinion? Jahangard 02:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Karcha

Karcha has complained against you here: You should check it out.Khosrow II 23:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep an eye on the Rumi article, there are POV issues.Khosrow II 00:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Warning templates

You should use warning templates on the offending users page as often and exhaust them so that admins and others can get clear judgement (they cannot act most of the time unless there is a full set on the user's page). I've noticed that you've done a lot of reverts to one user's edits (and rightfully so), so these might help - most notably, the NPOV warning tags under "Editing messages". Cheers Seicer (talk) (contribs) 20:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply

What i have written is sourced, please do not remove! All the previous references are still there. You can compare, if something is missing, please contact with me, i'll correct it. Furthermore, the templates are for navigation only, their entries are not part of Misplaced Pages's article content in the full sense, they are part of Misplaced Pages's editorial meta-language. In addition, please do not forget that Britannica and Columbia Encyclopedia are reliable sources. Furthermore, try to be civil all the time. Do not forget the Three-revert rule. Regards. E104421 17:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

You're not the only owner of the articles. Misplaced Pages is not your propaganda archive to push persian/iranian nationalism. You'd better to read what wikipedia is not. Stop accusing/threating wikipedians. E104421 17:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Giving information based on reliable sources contrary to your persian/iranian nationalism is just the verifiability, not Pan-Turkistic vandalism! Live with this! E104421 18:06, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The Turkish history template

That template is ridiculous, as it is based on a race. First of all, the histories of different Turkic peoples are not even tied or connected. You have some going to Europe, some to China, some to South Asia, etc... I think what happened is that they saw the History of Iran template (which is about a nation!) and got confused and thought it was about the history of Iranic peoples. I put a comment on the templates talk page.Khosrow II 23:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Response

1. I protected the Rumi article; although I wish you wouldn't edit war so much. :-(
2. NisarKand has been indefinitely blocked by Golbez, so I guess that's that. In the future try WP:PAIN for personal attacks, rather than posting them at WP:AN/I. Cheers, Khoikhoi 05:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like the Timurids page got protected...I guess I'll have to look at in some other time. Khoikhoi 01:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

RE: My talk page

I've protected Babur, but the other one hasn't been edit warred on since Khoikhoi's protection & unprotection. Leave me a message or (even better) take it to WP:RFPP if it starts again. -- Steel 22:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Turkish History Brief

Template:Turkish History Brief has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Khosrow II 23:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Timurids

There are problems with both these versions (you know my views well enough by now). Down to Humayun all the Timurid rulers would have spoken Chaghatai turkic as well as Persian, and the Barlas tribe was the product of long intermarriage between Mongols, Turks and Tajiks in Central Asia. Accordingly I think giving such prominence to their Mongolian ancestry and not mentioning the Turkic element is wrong. However the version by E104421 is, predictably, much worse in its insistence that they were simply "Turkic" and also fails to mention the لقب of "Gurkani" which the members of the dynasty assumed. He has also removed all the arabic spellings. At the very least the term "Turco-Mongol" should always be preferred to "Turk" or "Turkic" when describing the dynasty. "Persianised Turco-Mongols" is the most accurate description, but it's a bit of a mouthful. What really mattered in terms of the dynasty's legitimacy was establishing a connection with Genghis Khan (hence the "Gurkani" title) and subsequently , of course, descent from Timur himself. Ethnicity wouldn't have entered into it.

خسته نباشيد

Sikandarji 08:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkic

Look at what Baristarim writes here: LOL!!!!!!!! Khorshid 11:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Nhahahaha.. Very funny.. It still doesn't change the fact there is noone who will say "I am a Turkic" - "I am Turkish/Turk/Ozbek/Uighur/Turkmen" yes, but not "Turkic" to define himself. You have not read carefully what I had wrote dude.. Baristarim 13:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I read it my friend! But dont worry if we find a good source for you then we see what you do. Dont forget photos. ;) In the future plz be careful what you bet! =P Khorshid 14:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Template

Tajik, please don't spam talk pages telling people about the TfD—I had to tell Zaparojdik the same thing, although I think someone is going around spreading the word by email now, not sure who. Khoikhoi 23:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to help when I can

Time is a little short for me right now, but I will be glad to help when I can. I just got through trying to fix the Pashtuns page as it has turned into a mess very quickly. The Azeris and Iranian peoples seem to be holding up better though. Of the articles you mention, Afghanistan stands the best chance of being 'saved'. We need more neutrality definitely though. The issue with Babur is interesting also and having looked at the activity, I agree with your compromise version myself. The Turko-Iranian issue is difficult for even historians to really define as cultural assimilation was quite common and the lines blurred. Anyway, I'll see what I can do to help. Tombseye 15:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Iranian peoples, it is not really apparent that these are linguistic relatives as the term 'related ethnic groups' is in the caption. This is misleading as relationships between ethnic groups entail more than language and to a layperson such as one of my roommates who read that and believed it meant that these are all ethnic groups who are basically closely related. That's really the problem here as the relationships are fluid as Pashtuns and Tajiks living close to the Nuristanis and Dards are related in some capacity, while the Kurds aren't really related at all other than by distant language ties. This section would make sense if it was written as related language groups, which I would have no problem with as people would then understand the nature of the relationships implied. Tombseye 23:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey s'up.. Are you sure that it is Allah ud-Din and not Al ad-Din? I am sure they have the same origin, but in everyday language hasn't it shrunk to Al ad-Din? Aladdin also means Allah ud-Din, but it is still written that way since it has evolved.. I might be wrong however. Baristarim 02:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Safavids

Tajik, always the same. I do not reject any sources ive seen you put forward - what i reject is your subjective interpretation of them. As ive pointed out before clinging desperately the Sheikh Safi al-Din's status as an Iranian no more has a bearing upon the ethnicity of the Safavid dynasty (which was irrefutably Turkic) than does Jesus being a Jew immediately confer Jewish ethnicity upon all who follow Christianity. I laugh heartily at this bit :

So, as you can see, the "Turkic origin" theory is NOT accepted by leading scholars!

Err yeah, its not accepted by leading scholars - so what on earth are the scholars ive referenced stating explicitly (explicitly! unlike the vague references you abuse to confer Persian ethnicity upon a Turkic dynasty) if not "leading scholars" ? I do have access to the Encyclopedia of Islam and will have another look at the Safavids article to check if it supports your claims ( which i very much doubt ) and will refrain form revertin you simply until ive double checked the EoI which will have to have changed its entry on them considerably since i last read it for me to leave the article in your favoured state. Incidently as well as the Safavids being described as of Turkic origin in pretty much every book dealing with the region/era they are also taught as having been Turkic at the School of Oriental and African Studies - but of course a consensus which stretches from arguably the worlds leading authority on the middle east,Bernard Lewis, to possibly the world's leading academic instution on the same region holds no weight whatseover does it? Incidently i wouldnt have become involved in the article again had it been in a reasonably neutral state such as one which was occasionally achieved at the time of the original debate but its current condition is so laughably POV that i was left with no choice.siarach 00:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Remind about Khorasan

Salam. Since I have seen you in an Afghan forum as well, and I think you might have recognized me as well, I just wanted to make a very brief comment. When it comes to situations where you confront extremist Pashtuns, you go on defending the notion of Khorasan. But when it comes that you confront a normal Tajik, you go on attacking the Khorasan view and trying to defend the Iran or Persia case.

Thanks, I hope nothing was offending. Ariana310 08:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

S'up

Sorry for getting back late and thanks for the reply. I only asked it from a usage point of view, since the name has been "degenerated" into Aladdin. However it is true that the correct academic transliteration is Allah ud-Din. I was just wondering :)) Cheers! Baristarim 08:12, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

`?Ala´? (al|ad|ud)-?Dn Kay-?b(d|dh)

Hi Tajik, I'm a bit confused about your dispute with E about our Seljuk friend King Ala-With-the-Many-Spellings. On the Coloured Sheepy Turkomans, I saw you advocating the "q" spellings used by Iranica and Enc.Isl. and E advocating the Anglicised "k" spellings. Now it's suddenly the other way round? He wants q and you want k? Actually, I looked up Iranica and Enc.Isl. myself this time: Iranica uses "q" (ʿAlaʾ-al-Dīn Kayqobād), Enc.Isl. uses "k" with a dot below (don't know what sound that's supposed to represent.) Both seem to be using a simple "d" in the end. Not surprisingly, sources also differ as to the short vowel (Arabic transliteration convention "u", Persian convention "o"), over whether or not to represent the Ayin and hamza on "Ala" and the length mark on the two long vowels, on the treatment of the assimilation of the Arabic article, and on the treatment of the word boundaries. You go figure how many logically possible forms that gives. :-) Can you give me the original Persian and/or Arabic spelling? Cheers, Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. But the original Shahname seems to be using کیقباد, with a qaf, or is that not the same guy? . (Not that I can read a word of it, mind you ;-) Or what else do you mean by "original Persian spelling"? And one English translation of the Shahname even renders it as "Kai-Ghobad" (cais-soas.com/CAIS/Litrature/Shahnameh/rostam.htm), which also seems to be a spelling used occasionally by modern Iranians. - Anyway, we are not talking about the Shahname hero, but about the historical Seljuk guy, so the relevant data would first of all be how his contemporaries would have spelled his name, and what the conventions are for Latinizing that in the relevant modern literature. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I really do not understand the conflict, because both versions are right. The article itself says:

• Alā ud-Dīn Kay Qubādh I (actually Alā ud-Dīn Kay-Kubād; Turkish spelling: Alaadin Kaykubad), Seljuq emperor (1220-1237).

So, where is the problem? :)

Tājik 11:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh, just what I was asking you. I wasn't revert-warring over that name... ;-) By the way, I just found Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (Arabic). Good read.

That would suggest something along the lines of this (please fill in the "Ala ad-Din" part in the Persian:

`Ala' ad-Din Kay-Qubad

`Ala' ad-Din Kay-Qubad I (Persian: کیقباد, ‘Alā’ ad-Dīn Kay-Qubād; also rendered as Alauddin, Kay-Kubad, Kay-Ghobad, Kaikobad; in Arabic also كيقباذ Kay-Qubadh) ...

Turco-Persian

Could you have a look Talk:List_of_Mughal_emperors. E104421 seems to be under the impression that "Turco-Persian" means Persian or Persian by race and origin. Your knowledge on Mughals is much greater than mine. --Mardavich 15:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

compromise

Hi, Tajik. I'm offering compromise before editing/reverting the articles. That's better. We know the process of wikipedia, but for the general user, it's quite confusing to confront with articles changing every second. I've only one condition, civility. If you keep yourself calm, i can discuss the issues with you in detail. Cheers! E104421 22:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• First you should understand one important thing: You should provide reliable sources, like i always do. Before removing or deleting anything, you should also discuss the issue in the talk/discussion page. Furthermore, you should be civil at first. You're always accusing the ones who counters your arguments as nationalist and vandals. Your manner is well-known to many wikipedians. In my opinion, your impoliteness is the main problem, otherwise the issues would already been discussed and solved. However, you prevented all compromise attempts. I never edited the articles you mentioned namely Mahmud of Ghazni, Fuzuli, even Hajji Bektash Wali. Furthermore, i'm not the one who prepared the list. I'm just opposing deletion without reason. Anyways, This will probably the last message i'm writing to you, cause it's impossible to communicate with you. E104421 22:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

E104421 vs Tajik

Guys, I have a proposal. Lets have a break in your conflict and stay away from each other. Do not revert any article you both participated in and stay away from each other new edits, just politely discuss them on the talk pages with other people mediating. Do not send each other messages on their talk pages. Only one week to restore your cool? Alex Bakharev 00:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. HawkerTyphoon 20:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Tajik

Talk to him, not to me! HawkerTyphoon 21:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

3RR violations of Afghanistan

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you..

I have looked in the history of the article, both you and Pashtun were in violation of the 3RR. Since you have made less reverts than Pashtun, I am giving you only a warning at the moment, but please obey the policy to the letter. The next violation I will block you Alex Bakharev 00:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thanks

No problem! Khoikhoi 02:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. Khoikhoi 03:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Aha

Yeah, whatever.. I have all those pages on my watchlist (if any admins are interested they can have a look at my watchlist if it is possible), and I suddenly saw numerous edits by you on those articles simply titled "rv" or "rv vandalism". There is no stalking, it is the articles that I am watching, not you... You can report anything to anyone you want, I had those articles on my watchlist for ages, it is not my fault that we seem to be running into each other since we are interested in similar articles.. Whether u believe me about the stalking is your choice, but there is nothing wrong with having such cross of interests from time to time between users. Don't be accusing me of stalking, if you hadn't started your wiki session only by blind reverts, I wouldn't have had to revert you. Simple really.. Cheers! Baristarim 18:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The edits seem to be complicated, so I will study them further then get back to them for Timurids, and later, for the White Huns.. I don't want to start a silly revert war. For the Afghanistan article, the only thing that I couldn't understand was why your version was better then the other one. It just seemed to me like a commercial of Iranica, that's all.. Believe me, I am not stalking u.. On the other hand, maybe it would help if you stopped treating Iranica like a Bible. Seriously. In wikipedia, we can only cite sources, and Britannica is definitely a valid source. Even if it cannot be cited as a stand-alone source, it definitely merits a mention. Half of Wiki was created from Britannica's 1911 edition :)) I hope that you also understand that many users are finding your obsession with Iranica somewhat annoying.. That's all.. Baristarim 18:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Definitely OK with me as long as he can have access to my watchlist to see when I added it. It was my first edit, yes, however, I had that article on my watchlist for over ten days, I swear on my honor. Whether you believe me after that is not something I can do anything about. I am smarter than to simply open your contributions list and headdive into articles that you have edited right after you have. I don't mean that in a conspiratorial way, I am just trying to say that I am not going to go to articles that I have no knowledge about just to piss you off. I have had Italy on my watchlist as well for the last three months, however I have still not made a single edit. I just keep it there to see what is going on and to see if I can revert some random vandalism if I come across. In any case, let's drop it.. More arguing is not what we need. Baristarim 18:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

First of all, talk with more respect. I have tried to approach in a conciliatory way, however you are not up to it I see. I have been reading the Iranica link that was mentioned in the Afghanistan article. For vandal-wars. Look dude.. Similar vandal attacks also happen in Italy and France articles that I have on my watchlist, I never edit them since there are enough people fighting vandals for those pages, I have other fish to fry.. Ok? I am not the vandal patrol for every single article. Even for Turkey article I rarely do vandal reverts. Nobody is stalking you, so cut down on the paranoia. I have asked you the reason for your edits on other articles, instead of blindly reverting them, like in Allah ud-Din ... So please don't insult my intelligence by saying that I just open up your contributions list and head-dive head-on. A) I have no time for such low-level play B)There are smarter ways of doing that. All of those edits showed up when I refreshed my watchlist: Afghanistan, White Huns and Timurid articles all titled "rvv" by Tajik at one-minute intervals. Do not reply to me if the only thing you want to do is to shout.. Baristarim 19:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

That is normal, since Seljuq Turks refer to the people as a whole, not just the dynasty. There are two different articles for Ottoman dynasty (House of Osman) and the Ottoman Empire. Same thing. In the near future, there will be another article created called "Seljuk Turks" that will be about the people in the same way, don't worry. Scholarly sources do not only use the q-spelling I am afraid, FPAS himself said that for .edu searches, the outcome was even between the K and Q spelling, see the relevant talk pages. Of course, I can see your point if you consider the Iranic as the only scholarly source and the Bible of God :)) In the English language, there is no difference in pronounciation between Q and K in that particular word structure, and that's what counts: English. And most common name obviously. Baristarim 13:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The ref is there, pls read the article thouroughly and stop stalking.. There are many books refed at the bottom like Charles Perry book: "The Taste for Layered Bread among the Nomadic Turks and the Central Asian Origins of Baklava". The joke is really on you dude.. :))) Baristarim 14:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

As I told you before, please talk with more respect. If I am not mistaken, you just stalked me to the Baklava page.. And you did not try to look at the references on the bottom of the page of that article. I had the Afghanistan article on my watchlist before your edits my fellow, there was no stalking.. I said they are referred to as people in usage.. In any case, I had enough of your attitude, as I said before: DO NOT POST MESSAGES TO ME IF THE ONLY THING YOU WANT TO DO IS SHOUT.. Is that so hard to understand? Gees.. If somebody had told me that, I would definitely think more than twice.. :)) I never said that Ottoman Empire was based on ethnicity, so do me a favor and stop the straw man... Britannica also have its academic sources, who do you think is writing it? Aliens? :)) Baristarim 14:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I liked the Italian name :)) Polish was ok too I suppose.. Look, even one of the Iranica refs cited is refed to the work of a Turkish scholar.. You cannot deny that it is not of interest to Turkish/Turkic/Turk/Disneyland to the point that it cannot have the Turkish name up there. Baristarim 01:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

3RR

Please revert yourself on Khwarezmian Empire article since you broke 3RR. I don't want to report you, so please revert. If not, I will have no choice to report you since I will also be breaking 3RR if I revert you. There is no need to spill this issue to 3RR or ANI boards.. We can continue this some time later, so pls revert. Cheers! Baristarim 01:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I hope that you get the message above soon coz it is 2.40am both in France and Germany, so you might have gone offline.. Baristarim 01:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I just don't understand what your problem with Turks, I really don't. Why can't you accept that Turks are a migrating nation? It is not pan-Turkism to say that Turks are interested in their history, and the fact that this history spans many territories and nations is not our concern. I really would like to know what this insistence of yours is. See this article: Kipchaks, there are ten names listed. What is the problem? Tigin is both a title and a name. Arslan and Bilge also are Turkic names. In any case, following your logic of "assimilation" that leads you to incorrectly label Seljuks as Persian, than the fact that he assumed a Turkic title should make you support that he is Turkic. In any case, he was of Turkish origin.. Seriously, what is your problem with Turks? Baristarim 12:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkish people of Turkey have nothing to do with the real "Turks"? Hmmm.. You either have not met a lot of Turkish people or have not read studies on how Turks mixed with the natives etc. Look at this article, this guy is my father's cousin. Look at the photo of Mehmet Ali Irtemcelik and tell me that he is not "Turkish". And also check out where my last name Tarim comes from. On a side note... And stop telling me that I am some sort of converted cyrpto-Turk by saying that Turks of Turkey are not Turks. I am Turk by ethnicity, race, language, nationality and choice. So that's it for that. Baristarim 13:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

You know, you are really misinformed about Turkey and Turks, and I think that's maybe why you are so defensive about this stuff.. Look, all the Turkish people know that Turks of Central Asia are not the same with the Turks of Turkey, the languages have evolved differently, Turks of Turkey have mixed much more with the natives etc and etc.. Why are you telling me all this? You think that Turks are stupid or something? That stuff is extremely common knowledge.. However, you also fail to understand that for Turks, the study of their history is atypical. In any case, there were shahs of Khwarezm named Arslan, is that also Persianized? The relation between the Turkic languages is more than the relation between Spanish and Bengali, I am sorry, but that argument falls flat out. Many Turks who go to Central Asia adapt to the languages in a couple of months, if a Bengali went to Uruguay, it might take more than a few months. Just accept this, nobody is trying to reunite the "Great Kingdom of Turks" u know, and frankly I would never want to.. In real terms it doesn't mean anything, won't bring anything nor would it be practical. Khwarezm are of Turkic origin, I know why you started with their first Shah, if you change that, you will also be able to change the whole article. Nhahahaha :)) The fact that we cannot find the right 12th century Turkic translation is why it is somehow acceptable to include the Turkish translation. Baristarim 13:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Dolik Wakhi

Hi, Tajik. I wrote a short article about Russian painter Alexandre Jacovleff. One of his work I found is on the right. It is titled Portrait of Chief Afghan Mirza Dolik Wakhi. Jacovleff been to Afghanistan in 1931-1932. Any idea who is this Dolik Wakhi may be? Was he a or the Chief Mirza? Alex Bakharev 13:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

• • Thanks, Tajik. This all I wanted to know, that he is not a historical figure or royal. Thanks a lot Alex Bakharev 22:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Pff

Can you pls tell me why you took out the references about the Khwaerzmian Empire being of Turkic origin (and the conflicting one about its Iranian origins) and replaced it with "Sunni Muslim"? Baristarim 21:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The funny thing is, it is the Iranica article that says that they were of Turkic origin, so what is the problem? Are you saying that a Russian work is better than Iranica? :)) Please don't remove it. Baristarim 21:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

As for your post earlier... Look man, apparently you don't know so much about Turkey and the "nationalistic BS of Ataturk". I already knew all the things you said, so what? It seems like you hadn't read my post to you earlier. Every country in the world has engaged in nationalistic rhetoric, especially back in that era, so please spare me the guilt trip. Nobody is trying to impose Anatolia on Central Asia, please stop being paranoid :)) Baristarim 21:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I suppose it could be mentioned. I will look into it tomorrow, I have to finish off some other stuff in some other articles then I will go out. Look, I have tried more than once to actually make an overture and try to find some common ground where we can work with it, I would like that there is a greater spirit of cooperation in the air than there currently exists basically. Talk to u later... Baristarim 21:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Anushtigin

Regarding the Anush Tigin Gharchai article,

I'm well aware that a there's a good degree of conflict between the Turkish and Iranian users, and that these editing wars of certain articles is not infrequent. I'm not taking any one side in this conflict (for example I noted the attempts to remove the History of Iran template from the Seljuks page simply because the Seljuks were not ethnically Iranian), and in general stay out of these debates; I simply wish to make sure that these editing wars don't spill over on articles that I've created. Sadly, that is what has happened with the Anush Tigin page.

As to the ethnicity of Anushtigin, I am aware that there is some debate regarding his origin. However I believe that it is most likely that he was a Turk. The bulk of evidence certainly points to his successors being Turks: for example, Jalal ad-Din's biographer Muhammad Nasawi rather clearly describes him as Turkish in appeareance and in speech, though he spoke Persian as well. Granted, this alone doesn't confirm Anushtigin's Turkish origins, but considering his background it seems more than likely. I have never come across a copy of Buniyatov's or Gosudarstvo's works and I'm not an expert at etymology; I only have the opinion of what the available sources tell me, and they overwhelmingly refer to Anushtigin and his dynasty as Turks. When using sources to create or edit articles that conflict with each other, I look for what is most likely correct. If there is ambiguity I usually say "Anushtigin probably was a Turk" or "Anushtigin presumably was of Turkish stock," something like that. "Possibly," which is what you used in the edit that I changed, implies that it is only one possibility out of many, that is no more credible than any other possibility, a perception that I do not believe is accurate. The edit in place as of this time ("Originally a slave - most likely of Central Asian Khilji or Qipchaq origin") is fine by me, let's hope is stays that way.

One other thing: I noticed that you changed Anushtigin's title from "Khwarazm-Shah" to "governor of Khwarazm." I think the former is correct; in the Encyclopedia Iranica article on him it is clearly stated that he was given the traditional title of Khwarazm-Shah. Furthermore, considering that it is unknown whether he ever actually governed Khwarazm, using the title of "governor" seems incorrect. Let me know what you think about this.

Ro4444 23:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Khwarezmian

Your latest version seems good, won't touch it again as long as it stays that way.. What about the post above? Should it be changed to "Shah"? Cheers! Baristarim 12:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok then. Phew, we got throught this ok :) Baristarim 12:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverts on Oghuz Turks

Please, Tajik, you reverted the anon on Oghuz Turks three times without any argument or discussion. This is not good, it borders on newbie-biting. And about your edit summary, please discuss your edits before you change the article; and please cite sources: no, it's the other way round. The rule is: Be WP:BOLD in editing. The anon was making a good-faith attempt at improving the article; if you disagree with his edits, the onus of initiating a discussion lies squarely with you. For the time being, I'm reverting to the anon's version, simply in order to give him a chance - if there's anything wrong with it, please make your case at talk. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

My apologies, I really had misread your third edit. Point about the first two stands though. Sorry for the unnecessary revert on my part. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for edit-warring

Tajik, after this renewed outbreak of hostilities with E104421 I can't help but block both of you. E also broke 3RR, but you've been dangerously close to it, and making personal attacks again too. Please see my comments on WP:AN3 and on my talk page. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Recently

Hmm.. I really would like to find a way so that such hostilities won't erupt. I just put a post to ANI. It is not nice to put fact tags all over the Oghuz Turks article. There was even one for book of Dede Korkut! I am aware that there have been WP:POINT edit-wars, but it is really not cool. I have suggested a solution for the List of Turkic etc, but its nomination for AfD was, in my opinion, also WP:Point. I had enough of patrolling a wide range of articles, and it is also keeping me from focusing on my work, and I am sure it is also doing the same for you. I noticed that you took Iranian peoples to FA, and I have also been working extensively for ten days to do the same for Turkey. So let's raise the issues in the talk pages, and I will also try to talk to some other Turkish editors to lay off some of the WP:POINT edits. Cheers! Baristarim 18:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Revert parole

As I warned you earlier, and following the discussion on the administrators' noticeboard (), I'm hereby informing you that both you and E104421 have been placed on a strict 1RR parole on all those articles you two have been edit-warring on lately. That comprises:

• Hephthalite (and White Huns)
• Golden Horde
• Oghuz Turks
• List of Turkic states and empires
• Timurid Dynasty
• Turko-Iranian
• Turkic peoples
• Babur
• Ak Koyunlu
• Kara Koyunlu
• Mughal Empire
• List of Turkic states and empires

Until further notice, neither of you may make more than one revert on any of these articles in 24 hours, or you may be blocked by administrators. Note that this is not restricted specifically to reversions of each other, but to any participation in revert-warring against whoever else. (As usual, reversions of blatant vandalism are exempt).

As I notice you've been at each other's throats again even during the few days after your most recent blocks, I'm warning you strictly to cease revert-warring and personal attacks immediately. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Re:Afghanistan

Salaam Tajik. Thanks for letting me know why you reverted my edits. However, the suffix -stān also means place in Sanskrit and other Indo-Iranian languages. The name Afghanistan would thus translate into Afghani place or Afghan place. I am not denying the Afghanistan translates into the land of the Afghans. I am simply saying that there is an alternate translation. In light of this information, please let me know how you feel about the edits. Thanks, Anupam 21:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your valuable comments. Another Afghan editor who reverted to my changes is giving a different explanation for the derivation of the word. In my opinion, including both translations to be neutral is the best solution. Please read the new comments on my talk page and comment on your opinions. With regards, Anupam 22:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you know what

Am I dreaming or are there other articles at Arab world and Slavic Europe? I am sure that the creators of the article made a reasonable choice of words there. They could have also used "Turkic world" or "Turkic Eurasia". Tajik, you just said "there is no article "List of Slavic states grouping Russia and Bulgaria etc" - well, take a close look here and stop your insults of racism. And if I am not having problems with my eyes, I just saw Russia and Bulgaria shown together on a map. Such articles and templates already exist.Baristarim 02:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact, the fact that you didn't even know that there was a list of slavic countries listed under a same article, and your God-like affirmation to its non-existence, when it actually existed, casts serious doubts on your good faith and so-called knowledgability of the subject matter. Pleas stop throwing around affirmations of non-truths around; it is called disruption.Baristarim 02:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Tajik, what utter non-sense have you been spewing around? Germanic Europe article also exists.. As well as Latin Europe And all this after your GOD-LIKE affirmations that "there are no Germanic states in one article!", "there are no Slavic states in one article!" These are your words: there are no articles called List of Germanic states (containing Germany, USA, UK, etc) or a List of Slavic states (containing Russia, Bulgaria, etc) either ... So may I ask what the hell are Slavic Europe, Germanic Europe and Latin Europe articles doing there? Not to mention Arab world.. Please, I really wanna hear your response after all those insults of pan-Turkism aimed at many editors of Misplaced Pages and your affirmations that there have never ever been such articles and that this article is racist, pan-Turkist and blah blah... Baristarim 05:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Germanic Europe regroups Germany and the UK, so your argument that "there are no lists or maps that regroup Germany/UK monsieur!!!" simply, and utterly, falls flat out I am afraid.

I will just repeat what I said above.. "These are your words: there are no articles called List of Germanic states (containing Germany, USA, UK, etc) or a List of Slavic states (containing Russia, Bulgaria, etc) either ... " I am not going to take seriously the arguments of someone who was insulting others by calling them pan-turkist on the premise that there were no "list of slavic states (containing Russia, Bulgaria) etc." The utter proval of the falsity of your god-like affirmations stops me from lending any type of credibility to any of your arguments any more, nor can I assume good faith. There is a list of states that group Bulgaria and Russia, and your god-like affirmations have been proven to be utterly false. You might at least apologize for your propagation of un-truths, it is called disruption. Europe is also a mix of ethnicities, what r u talking about? Basques, Slavs, Nordmen, Latins, Hellenes, Celts etc. The level of non-academic character of your arguments is so low that do not even try to take others to take your arguments seriously. Slavic Europe clearly mentions "Austria-Hungary", "Imperial Russia", "Mongol invasion", "Ottoman invasion", "Holy Roman Empire".. Do not ever expect me to take you seriously. The good faith assumption, and so-called knowledgability of the subject matter is out of the window, and that utterly. That article is not pushing for all of them to be "united in their Turkic identity". I can assume the same thing about Iranian peoples, Arab world, Slavic Europe etc in that case. How about looking at the issue with greater good faith? Do not reply to me unless you are ready to accept that you were "utterly wrong" when you affirmed "there are no articles that group Russia/Bulgaria" etc. End of story. Baristarim 20:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact, I don't get why you are not raising the improvements that can be made to the article in its talk page. The idea behind the article is very similar to those other articles: There is a list of Turkic countries, and there is a history section to inform the readers how the Turkic world got to this point. There is no Turkic conspiracy!!!. The fact is that, the idea behind the article remains valid: It is interesting to inform the people how the Turkic world got to this point. I really do not understand where this is coming from.. I tried to show a constructive attitude and tried to find solutions, and this article simply got nominated for AfD per WP:POINT. Baristarim 20:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Watch out for 1RR.. Baristarim 21:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

You just broke 1RR.. I will contact other administrators. Baristarim 22:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, read my posts about good faith. In any case, I warned you twice before this got out off hand. I am not trying to dangle 1RR over your head, trust me. If that were the case, I would have simply reverted all your edits, and would have reported you in your second revert. Even after all this, I am trying to be fair. So don't assume please.. Baristarim 22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Offf... :)) Ok, I will try to see what I can do. Just so that you know, I will really try to look for a good concensus on that page. I have been in the midst of an edit-war on different articles involving dynamic IPs, probable sockpuppets etc so I am quite tired. But I will have a look into it. In any case, we will have enough time to work out the issues in that page. Baristarim 01:09, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Golden Horde

The source that I am providing is of edu extension, therefore it counts better than any com extension websites. Since I have taken into account that you will claim edu.tr (turkish university) website will be biased, I limited my search to university websites of other countries. If you don't want me to revert your changes, support them with a superior source e.g edu, edu.de, edu.uk etc. Thanks Caglarkoca 02:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Buzz

You've got mail, check your e-mails. --Mardavich 15:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Persianate

I'm not satified with your explanation, cause it's so brief, please expand the difference between Turko-Persian and Persianate. I never seen such a term in the literature. I want to know it's true meaning and the usage. Regards. E104421 15:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Done! Do not forget to explain Turco-Persian and Persianate, cause the term causes confusion. Regards. E104421 15:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

You mean Persianate culture!, calling directly as Persianate is misleading. E104421 15:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

Hi Tajik,

I have blocked you for 48 hours, due to multiple complaints about you posted on WP:PAIN. I think you are an excellent contributor, but you've already got a long history of blocks for disruption due to personal attacks and/or incivility, and I cannot imagine what was going through your head to post a message like this just hours after your last block expired. Please take a while to calm down and come back ready to build the encyclopedia again. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester 01:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

As two users have now requested unblocking or a shorter block, I will grant their request and am now unblocking you. Since these good-faith editors are vouching for your ability to be civil and refrain from making personal attacks, I hope you will honor their trust in you and refrain from violating Misplaced Pages policies. I wish you luck, and hope you will be able to put this incident, and others, behind you and that you are ready to build the encyclopedia once more. Best wishes and happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 00:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Disrespect for fellow editors

Hi, Tajik. I'll provide examples from iranica. Check the Chionites , Hephtalites , Sassanids articles for the Chionites from iranica. You'll see all differs. For the Chionites, the CHIONITES article says "a tribe of probable Iranian origin", HEPHTHALITES articles says "the second wave of "Hunnish" tribal invaders", SASANIAN DYNASTY article says "a Hunnic people who by the early fourth century had mixed with north Iranian elements in Transoxiana and adopted the Kushan-Bactrian language, threatened Persia". Then what should we do? Should we rely on iranica as a holy reference or search for other references? That's not my fault. Iranica does not seem to me a reliable source, although Sikandarji told me so. Check these articles from iranica. You'll see the difference. Regards. E104421 19:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Tajik, how could i know how the terminology differs, if somebody does not explain? I'll read the article. You see, i'm not ignoring your references, but reading them all indeed. So, do not call me as a nonsense. Cheers. E104421 20:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Tajik, you're attacking before considering what the others are claiming. Then, this turns out to be a debate. Alright, from now on, we'll be more carefull. No need to any revert/edit war. On the other hand, you should not expect general user to be familiar with the terminology of different sources. You should explain the differences explicitly in the talk/discussion pages first. In addition, iranica is not a holy book. You should respect the others. Regards. E104421 20:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Dear Tajik,
Love came to a stable on that very special night to bring us out of darkness into His glorious light. May Jesus touch your life with gladness and warm your heart with love as we celebrate His birth. I hope you have a Blessed Christmas, Anupam 06:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope you had a good one and are looking forward to the new year! Khuda hafiz, Anupam 06:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Articles

I posted several articles on afghan singers in the Afghan musicians category and I want to ask you to go over them and add anything that I might have left out. Thanks...NeutralWriter

Image tagging for Image:Afghanistan-ethnic.jpg

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Afghanistan-ethnic.jpg needs source.

Dear Tajik, You uploaded this great map (http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Afghanistan-ethnic.jpg), and I've been looking for this myself for a while, but it needs a source. I think it made a great addition to the Demographics of Afghanistan article so I added there and I think it should stay there because it shows the composition of the major cities. But I think you forgot to provide the source for this image so apparently they will delete it in a week. So if you could please add a source that would be great. Thank you. Parsiwan 02:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hephthalite

Hi, Tajik. I'm bored of editing/reverting the article. If you agree, let's compromise. I tried to do it before but failed, cause of blind reverters. I shall greatly appreciate if you check my last edit and comment on this. In my opinion, it's better to remove all the unsourced information. Regards. E104421 18:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I nominated Turkey for FAC after a major rewrite. I am sorry about not getting back sooner after your post to my talk page. I am trying to run all around the place :)

By the way, I saw the Persian literature FAC. I was going to suggest that maybe you can contact User:Saposcat, he was the one that took Turkish literature FA, and as far as I know he is not Turkish but has extensive knowledge of Turkish/Persian literature and related genres. I don't know if he has time or anything, but you can ask him for some input as well. If he had already dropped by the Persian literature article, then discount my advice.

In fact, I also agree that maybe renaming Greater Iran to Iranian Cultural Continent (or something similar) might make more sense. However, I don't know the specifics of that article, so I will have to check into it to be able to give more input. Nevertheless the idea seems to be right. Cheers and happy new year! Baristarim 21:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I gave it as an example to try to help you out! :) I will contact User:Saposcat about your note, or maybe he will see your notes directly. Mind you, he is not Turkish, so I am sure that anything that was overlooked was not because of bad faith. You confused Karakhanids with Karamanid, an Anatolian Turkish Beylik. :) I am serious, that article was not written at all by a Turk, I don't think there are any major confusions between Turkish/Turkic, or POV pushing. Read the article carefully: it says for example "The Turkish epic has its roots in the Central Asian epic tradition ", it doesn't say that Central Asia is Turkish. If you noticed anything else, please let me know. Cheers! Baristarim 03:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I see where the Karakhanids are mentioned. I will let saposcat look into it. But the article does make a distinction, for example

Early in the history of the tradition, the Persian influence was very strong, but this was mitigated somewhat through the influence of poets such as the Azerbaijani Nesîmî (?–1417?) and the Uyghur Ali Şîr Nevâî (1441–1501), both of whom offered strong arguments for the poetic status of the Turkic languages as against the much-venerated Persian. Partly as a result of such arguments, Divan poetry in its strongest period—from the 16th to the 18th centuries—came to display a unique balance of Persian and Turkish elements, until the Persian influence began to predominate again in the early 19th century.

If there is a particular point, I am sure that saposcat will look into it when he sees your post. Baristarim 08:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Kandahar

I've left a comment on the talk page. Khoikhoi 07:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it's already been taken care of—sorry I was away. Khoikhoi 11:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

New article to watch.

Hello Tajik. Here is a new article just made today: Lida Abdul. Please also add this to your watch list if you can.

Also if you can, please add these articles to your watch also: Mazari_Sharif, Balkh province, Balkh, and Ahmed Shah Massoud.

Thanks. Behnam 03:05, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Please also keep an eye on these two images and please correct any mistakes I made with the legend I made for the map. Behnam 02:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Please also keep a watch on this article Demographics_of_Tajikistan. Behnam 03:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is another article I think you'd want to keep a watch on since you are of Qizilbash descent: Nelofer Pazira --Behnam 08:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Indo-Iranian-speaking

Salaam Tajik! Although I didn't upload the template, I helped promulgate it by adding it to the articles of the countries that were listed therein. Thanks for the information about the other countries. Just as I was about to add them to the list, I already noticed you had! I'll go ahead and add the template to the Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey articles. With regards, Anupam 02:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Bamyan City?

Hello Tajik. I need your help with something. The article Bamyan City is incorrectly named city. Bamyan is not a city and is not called Bamyan city. It is simply referred to as Bamyan. While the province is called Bamyan Province. So I want to change the name of this article but do not know how. Can you please tell me how can I change the name of articles? Thanks. Behnam 00:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I got the admins to fix that, so don't worry. Behnam 01:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Cool Afg ethnic map

Hello Tajik. A while ago I had this map: but I lost it and I can't find it on the internet. Do you by chance have this map saved on your computer or do you know where to find it? Behnam 22:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. I just found it! Do you think I should upload it? Behnam 22:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we have enough. Besides this was made by a news agency and that is not reliable. Behnam 02:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Kabul province

I just made some corrections to the Demographics section of the Kabul province article. Please take a look at it for any other mistakes or anything you think needs to changed. Also please keep a watch on it. Thanks. Behnam 05:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Civility

Please watch for civility. Some of the tone and content of your comments is not appropriate for the creation of a healthy working environnement in Misplaced Pages. Thank you. Baristarim 01:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• Tajik, really, I saw Talk:Turkification#Turkification_and_Turkicization and many of your statements are over the top. You and Baristarim have different point of views. I do not think he would change his or you would change yours. Still if you are discussing editing then in 99% it is possible to find words that are satisfactory with both points of view. If you are discussing the editors the discussion just go into the escalating of the conflict. Please think about it and stay on the topic. Most of the section is irrelevant to the election of the correct title of the article. Alex Bakharev 02:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Number of Farsiwan in Afghanistan.

The number I initially put down was a number that I remembered from several sources. I then came across this source that differentiates between Tajiks and Farsiwans and secondaly calls Farsiwans "Persians" and lists the "Persian" population of Afghanistan at 3.3%. But the numbers they have could be overexagerting the Pashtun numbers over the others, so that is where I got atleast 1,000,000 (3.3% of the population). Behnam 10:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit warring

You have been blocked for edit warring at Turkification. You are already aware of 3RR, and have been blocked before, so the block is for 48 hours. Please use civil discussion only to resolve editing disputes. Dmcdevit·t 05:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Two Articles in need of your attention

There are two entries at Misplaced Pages, which have falsely created -- they are Turco-Persian and Turko-Persian Tradition. Both entries are factitious. I have requested the entries to be deleted. My reasons are:

The term Turko-Persian Tradition (or Turco-Persian) does not exists academically and it is a factitious entry! Check the Encyclopaedia Iranica to confirm -- The correct name for that culture is the Persianate culture not the "Turko-Persian". Turkophones (mostly of mixed race and Persianized in culture) only spoke in Turkic dialects and were in the military. That is not enough participation in creating and forming the culture to deserve the name "Turko-Persian Tradition" – This is misinformation. All the elements in that area, which have to do with tradition and culture, were drawn from the Iranian culture (Persian, Kurdish, Azari, Baluchi, Tajik, Luri, Gilaki, Talishi, Mazandarani, etc.), and the Islamic faith, not much Turkic elements (like shamanism, yurts etc.) were incorporated in. That is what makes the name "Turko-Persian" an imaginary one and therefore the entry should be deleted.

Any contributions would greatly appreciated. Bā Sepās Surena 02:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Persianate Template

Do you think we should have a Persianate template that we could place in related articles?Azerbaijani 19:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Pashtun Shia

Hello. I noted the conflict between you and NisarKand over the issue of Shia Pashtuns. The problem is that one article talks about Indian Pathan Shia (not sure if they are Pashtun thusly) and the other article talks about Shia in Quetta (and from what I understand most Shia there are Hazara not Pashtun). I did hear from somewhere that some tribes were Shia (not many though), but I haven't been able to find where. The references you put in don't work though, but I do believe there is a tiny Pashtun Shia group, but I just can't prove it myself as I don't know where I read that. Tombseye 21:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I found a reference to Pashtun Shia in Afghanistan, but still nothing on the group in Pakistan. Tombseye 22:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Help with image liscence:

Hey I need your help with something. Can you please read this article and try to figure out what type of a license I can put for this image Behnam 10:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

That's alright, I found a suitable license tag.Behnam 02:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

really

if you must move things around on a whim, at least check for double redirects (such as Template:Iran, look at Medes, for example). It would be even nicer if you went with wikiquette and checked with people before moving things, of course. dab (𒁳) 15:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Issues with Durand Line article

I have noticed the issues which have popped up between yourself and User:NisarKand in relation to the article on Durand Line. Please visit the article's talk page so we can have a further discussion to bring these matters to an appropriate conclusion. thewinchester 14:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Please avoid using abusive edit summaries as per Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. Thanks and happy editing. thewinchester 15:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I notice that you have still chosen not to participate in the POV issues discussion on this article. I would like to again invite you to participate in this as soon as possible so we can close of this discussion. If you have any concerns about participating then please message me directly via my talk page. thewinchester 06:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors, which you did here: Durand Line. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. thewinchester 00:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to violate Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did to Durand Line, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. thewinchester 00:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

More Durand Line

Hi, you might remember me from such article talk page discussions as Durand Line. Long story short, someone has made some major modifications to this article to the point where i'm not even sure if it's factually correct. Can you please take a moment to review the changes and do whatever you think may be necessary to bring the article back to reasonable quality (and hopefully minus the issues which came up before). Thanks. thewinchester 08:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Safi Al-Din

Hello. Please have a look at this article: Safi Al-Din. See user Atabek's concerns.Azerbaijani 18:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

re: Kandahar

Thanks for the links. I'll see what I can do on the Bamyan page. Make sure you check Kandahar where he is pushing for his POV and flodding the article with the usual unsourced garbage. He is even using wrong sources, pretending that the sources he posts support his view. If you click on the links, you will see that those sources do not have anything to do with his claims. Maybe we should contact an admin. Tājik 00:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for for the link. The problem is that User:NisarKand is messing up all kinds of Afghanistan-related articles. Right now, he is busy on Kandahar, pushing for unsourced nonsense. He is even using fake sources ... he simply puts some names and links as "sources" to his claims, although those links do not support his claims at all. Please take some time to get an impression of his nonsense in that article. Tājik 21:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but I took care of the Bamyan page so don't worry about that. I'm very sorry for not paying attention to the Kandahar article. I was not aware of these POV pushes Nisarkand was making. Also I was a little busy, if I was not busy I would have looked through it regardless. And I just read through the Kandahar article and fixed a few false things. Twice on that article I found that he makes a claim and cites a source that does not support his claim, he always manipulates what the source is saying. But if you read through his sources, they clearly say another thing. The other day I caught this on the Afghanistan article and reverted it and kept reverting it but then I got banned when really I should have been given credit for removing fake sources, a serious violation. I will contact that admin and explain that to him. And I will also tell him about the fake source I caught on the Kandahar article and I already added it to it's discussion page. Here is the fake source from that article (there was another but that was minor):

false claim with FAKE source from Nisarkand removed

User: NisarKand wrote that "As a result of several battles, more than 30,000 Persian soldiers were killed by the Afghans, along with their leaders Khusraw Khan and Rustam Khan." and cited this source ]. I went to that source and read the entire article. No where did it say what User: NisarKand claimed. In one sentence it mentions "though the Persian General Ṣafí-qulí Khán with 30,000 troops succeeded in defeating an Uzbek army of 12,000 he was immediately afterwards defeated by the Abdáli Afgháns". That means that the Persian forces FIRST faught an army of 12,000 Uzbeks, then fought the Adbali Afghans meaning we do not know how many Persian soldiers survived to fight the Adbali Afghans, nevermind the number that was killed. Nisarkand made a false claim and used a fake source to support it, that is a clear VIOLATION of Wiki's rules. So I have deleted that sentence. Behnam 01:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Timurids

Hi, Tajik. Thank you for the nice images, but the references classified as Timurids from Britannica redirects to Babur article LINK of Britannica. Please, spend some time to correct the naming/classification of the references. Regards. E104421 14:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

License Tag to Use for your "Languages of Afghanistan" image

I saw that last night your image of Languages of Afghanistan got deleted because they said it was not GFDL. They were also about to delete the "Ethnic Groups of Afghanistan" map, but I adjusted the lisence tag to {{PD-because|reason}} and now they are ok with it. So try uploading it again and replacing it on the Afghanistna and Demographics of Afghanistan as they were, but with the {{PD-because|reason}} tag. For the reason I wrote: "The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan government (the creator of this map) does not exist anymore, thus this does not have a copyright anymore." So something along those lines for the reason should be good so that it will never be deleted again. So try that please, {{PD-because|reason}}. Behnam 15:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for lurking and butting in here unasked, but there's still a bit of a problem. You're talking about this image here , right? First, are you certain old government copyrights have expired? Wouldn't the present state still be the legal inheritor of the earlier one? Second, the image itself says it's from 2001, so it can't possibly be the exact same image that was published in 1985. It may be based on the data of the earlier publication, but as it was evidently re-drawn in 2001 there's likely be a renewed copyright claim on it now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but you haven't really addressed the points I raised. Whoever reprinted that thing in 2001 put a "©" sign into it (which has been craftily cut out in the uploaded version but is present in the source website.) And they didn't just produce a photographic reproduction of the older map, no, they re-drew it with modern computer graphics. So, copyright was reasserted in 2001, and there's some grounds to believe that it was reasserted for a valid reason. Yet another complicating factor is, the original 1980 atlas was apparently printed not in Afghanistan, but in Poland. So we need to take into account the possibility that even if your theory about Afghan government copyrights holds, there might be a copyright held by the Polish publishers.

I believe the best way to proceed would be if you could find somebody who'd re-draw the map for you, based on the data from that source. That way, you'd be safe in terms of image copyright, and you could still refer to that atlas as a source in terms of "verifiability" and "NOR". Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't know, but if you look into our various articles on language families, I think quite a couple of the maps there are self-made. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:25, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

We have two maps, and one of them clearly says 1985 Communist Government (well not clearly, its a little blurry, but you can read it still). Here take a look . The other one that says "MAM Computer Graphics 2001", I don't think that means it was re-printed in 2001, I think that is the name of the graphics program they used to make it and the "©" is probably for that program, not the actual image. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Beh-nam (talk • contribs) 02:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Nope, it doesn't say that. It says: "The maps have been elaborated in AGCHO, 1985, after the sources of the Afghan Central Statistics Office and local authorities". I don't know what "elaborated" is supposed to mean, but it certainly doesn't mean that this particular graphical version of the map was actually drawn in 1985. It's probably based on maps that were produced back then. But these maps evidently both come from the same paper publication (they are page 1 and 2 of the same book), they were plotted by computer in 2001 by a company called "MAM Computer Graphics" (which is based in Pakistan, ); this re-plotting would mean establishing of a renewed copyright, just as it is asserted by the copyright tag printed on it; we still don't know what the publication is called and where and by whom it was published, but if it was in 2001 or after, its copyright can't have run out yet. And even as for the old communist authorities, the "AGCHO" ("Afghanistan Geodesy and Cartography Head Office") still exists (or exists again). The copyright for the original production would have been property of the state of Afghanistan, not any particular government of it; just because the political system changed in between doesn't mean the State of Afghanistan lost all claims to its assets, does it? Anyway, the question is moot, since the maps were evidently produced after that date. Sorry, but I can see no other way but to delete both of these. Please keep a copy off-wiki and try to find a way to re-draw them. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I just found Misplaced Pages:WikiProject maps, with some useful resources on how to create maps. Just trying out some of that myself for a different article. Maybe you'll find something helpful there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Dari article

I just sorted out the History section of Dari article. The history section was in a mess. The points were out of order, some of them were repeatedly written, and the text seemed to be broken.

I added some sources and references, and made some two small sub-categories under the History section. Just wanted to let you know! Ariana310 13:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The Qizilbash article

I have been alwasy curious to know who are Qezelbash in history. I have read some article from different sources before. Misplaced Pages article for Qizilbash is so informative. Thanks for your contribution in the article ! Sohanaki 15:40, 26 January 2007

Greater Iran vs. Iran

Ok sure I'll look at it. I'm not even close to being as knowledgeable as you, but I'll try my best. I'll read over it tonight and try to add something tomorrow. Behnam 04:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Tajik. I'm sorry, but I'm really too busy right now to get involved in another dispute. There is, however, one guy who may be able to help you. Why don't you ask him? Khoikhoi 04:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Afghan maps

Tajik - I received the note on my talk page about the need for the language maps for Afghanistan. I will take a look at the maps you provided links to, and definitely create some "wiki originals" for your free use. Give me a few days, and I will let you know when I am done! :) Rarelibra 14:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Tajik. I'm guessing you sent these two maps to Rarelibra. Just curious, is he going to use the same colors as those maps? I'd prefer some slightly different colours. For example for Tajiks and Persian I think green is a good colour. Actually, thats the only preference I have. Maybe somethink like this in terms of colors. I think you know which colors to chose. So if you can please tell him/her my request or just overall what colors you would like since you know best. Great work, I am very much looking forward to this. Thanks. Behnam 17:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Benham - before I finalize the maps, let me know any specific color requests. The outlines are done, so let me know and I will create and post on Commons. Good news is, your maps will be the first I create in SVG format. Rarelibra 19:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

?

Stalk? Isn't it you who mentioned this article in Talk:Turko-Persian tradition? You know that I watch that article. I will have ask you assume more good faith and to refrain from jumping to such conclusions. Thanks. Baristarim 21:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I did notice it. However, you know that I have never gotten involved a lot in the Hephtalite article. I do not know enough about what the dispute is and I frankly don't want to start edit-warring for no reason. If you noticed, I haven't been reverting you either, right? Unfortuntately most of the time when I get involved in those articles it always ends up being very stressing for me :) Therefore I only get involved when I feel that there is some particular dispute that I have knowledge about or when it is blatantly weird editing. If you checked my contibutions list, you will see that I am watching many diverse articles. I am sorry, but I don't want my time in Misplaced Pages to be non-stop stress - therefore I sometimes do choose to stay away from disputes particularly if there are many editors already involved on the case.

It would be nice to not hear back a sarcastic reply one of these days, but oh well... Baristarim 21:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Reference in dari's article

The reference has NOTHING to do with Dari. You had put the "fact" tag after this sentence: These inscriptions, written on a stone, were found in one of the Kushanian Temples, which are 1,800 years old. So I added that source only to show that those inscriptions are 1800 years old, nothing more. You yourself put the tag after that sentence.Ariana310 22:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Greater Iran

Sorry for the late reply. I got side-tracked with other stuff. I wrote a response as I agree with your position there. I will continue to discuss matters as this "greater" hegemonic perpsective to history is getting out of hand at wikipedia. Tombseye 01:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

That "revert parole"

It's been brought to my attention that E104421 and you have been back at reverting each other again. Forgot that revert parole? You've run up quite a list of reverts on Timurid dynasty at least, and E also on some other articles. Given the fact that the two of you seemed to manage somewhat better in the meantime I hope I can leave it at just a warning at this point, but remember you can be blocked very quickly if this continues. Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Check Atabeg, what do you think of the new edits there? --Mardavich 17:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Tajik. I understood that you are a member of Persian cinema project. Apparently only two members of this project except me are active users. I have recently made pages for many film directors of Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan who got an international prizes. We need to have a page for every single award winning actor and director. I have also wrote Iranian cinema page from scratch and organized prize categories etc. Currently I am working on Abbas Kiarostami and I would like to bring it to a good article status. I would like to have input from other users like you about my edits. Without your comments I may overlook shortcommings of the articles. For instance I would like to nomminate Abbas Kiarostami's page and later on page of Iranian cinema as "good article". But I would like to check them with mambers of Persian cinema project. It would be very kind of you if you could help me and comment on my style of writings. Thanks a lot and take care.Sangak 17:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Huns

The Mughal related part was not my edit (you can check from the edit history/summary). I only edited White Huns related parts. So, you owe me an apology. Regards. E104421 08:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I only reverted to a version prior to the last revert. Calm down! E104421 09:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

That's simply not correct. I did not check what you did. I only edited the White Huns part and removed the category (iranian people) which is irrelevent to the content of the article. I'm only responsible for my own edits, and you're only responsible for yours. I cannot control what others are doing all the time. Regards. E104421 09:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not full revert unless it's necessary. I told you i edited White Huns and Category parts. Regards. E104421 09:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Huns

Thanks for the heads-up. But what exactly do you want me to do? Khoikhoi 04:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I need a favour

Tajik I need a favour, it has nothing to do with wiki but I would appreciate your help if you could help. I have seen a music video called Chor Jawon by Nato on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc9WJhmMpD4) The singer is Russian and I do not understand her accent; can you possibly write the lyrics in Farsi or English please? Many thanks.

What I have understood so far is: Rawan shudan chor javon, (4 youth started a journey) har chor girifty kamon (all four took their arms / bows) onha shodan door as mon, (I think she says Onha shodan door as ma = they separated from us ..) ya mavlon, ya mavlon, ya mavlon (Ya Mulla, Ya Mulla, Ya Mulla)

Madar goo to bachha mord, (Tell the Mother “Your child is dead”) har sal aise madareson (Every year there are mothers like this) khatar reson bar Khudo, (Dangers received .... God) ya mavlan, ya mavlan, ya mavlan (O Lord, O Lord, O Lord) nanaj na nana nanaj na naj Kiumars

Safavid dynasty

By now you surely must know, or should know, that edit warring is unacceptable. However, despite previous blocks and warning, you immediately resumed edit warring on Safavid dynasty the day it was unprotected. I've decided to block the parties this time instead of reprotecting so soon. Other editors who want to edit the page shouldn't have to suffer because you persist in hostile behavior rather than using dispute resolution. Please avoid excessive reverting when your block expires. Dmcdevit·t 22:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit-Wars?! I just put a tag on top of the article to show that the content is still disputed! I made only one edit that was immidiately reverted by User:Grandmaster (the same person who had previously deleted duzens of sourced information). Then User:Atabek reverted the article, without keeping the tag. I just restored the tag - that's all. I did not change anything in the article after Grandmaster's revert. Instead, I suggested a few changes in the talk page! All the rest was being discussed in there! Tājik 22:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Your "just adding a tag" (twice) is still a revert and served to prolong the edit war. Dmcdevit·t 23:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

If someone adds a tag on top of an article and someone else reverts to a previous version without keeping that tag, then it is NOT an edit war to re-add that tag. I am sure that it was not Atabek's purpose to remove that tag, but only to revert to a previous version. Tājik 23:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Dear Kiumars, right now, the entire Safavid article is a mess. Please stop editing the article for a while until the diputes are resovled. Thanks. Tājik 13:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Tajik; how are the disputes going to be resolved if we do not talk to each other? I must say GM and Atabek have been very cooperative so far and have been open to all suggestions! I just made a few small changes to the article on the basis we agreed on so far to show how easy it is to resolve the dispute! Kiumars

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Kiumars"

Should I add one of these pictures?

I'm thinking of adding a picture of a Tajik from Tajikistan on the Tajiks article. I'm going for a more natural picture of ordinary people. I'll put it in the location section. But I want to get your consent first. Which one do you think I should add, or do you think I should even add one at all? --Behnam 13:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Persianate society

Sorry some of your edits had to be reverted, but the intro in the article as it appeared did not make sense after an edit war. Please see the talk page for more detail --Rayis 16:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Farsiwan

Hey Tajik, I know that thats what Iranica says because I was the one who initially found that sentence. But, right now I really don't think its necessary to mention that. Iranic is just one source that differentiates between the two. All the others don't. So don't you think the article can do without that quote? Behnam 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for edit warring

You violated your revert parole again today with three reverts in 24 hours at Timurid dynasty . In addition, you've made two more reverts at Fariswan, three at [http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Huns&action=history Huns], and this uncivil remark: . Your block this time is a week, and will increase rapidly if you don't cool it. I'll point you again to WP:DR for when you have disputes. Dmcdevit·t 21:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

What's your problem, man?! The "edit war" at the Timruids article was not really an "edit war", and even if, it is resolved by now! The main problem was the Template:History of Iran, which some users misinterpret. The edits at the article Farsiwan were not a "war" at all ... ask User:Beh-nam. The edits at the article Huns was reverting IP vandalism - just check the edits.

What's your real intention, man? What kind of admin are you?! Are you just trying to keep me out in order to push for your own POV?! There are so many edit wars and POV attacks (User:Baristarim is calling me "racist" in almost all of his postings, last time because I posted an article from !). You do not seem to be neutral at all. I have asked other admins to check your moves. You are clearly abusing your right as an admin, and it is also very clear that your actualy intention is to keep me out of discussions, nhot out of alledged "edit wars". Tājik 23:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude, but I just wanted to say that the revert by Tajik on the Farsiwan article was NOT in the slightest way an edit war or even close to being a dispute. So I think that factor should be taken out. Behnam 07:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Dear Mr. Tajik. I do not disagree with your sources, I do not disagree with Persian influence in a multitude of empires, I disagree however, with using such influence to characterise the Ottoman Empire or its dynasty as Turkic-Perisanate. It is giving undue weight to one culutral influence and I view its inclusion as no more than pov pushing. --A.Garnet 19:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I understand what you are saying, but my position remains that is giving undue weight to the role of Persian culture. We can provide a hundred sources referring to the Ottomans as Turks or the Turkish Empire or the Turkish Sultan etc etc, it simply does not make sense to characterise the empire as Turkic-Persian on the back of four sources which talk of Persian manuscript or poetry. If you want to highlight the role of Persian culture, perhaps Ottoman Empire is the place to do it where you can analyse it in-depth. Thanks, --A.Garnet 21:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Understood Tajik, but the article is simply a list of Turkic empires of which the Ottoman Empire undeniably is. We may highlight the the influence of varying cultures which would question the purely Turkic nature of the Ottomans, but this should be done as an expanded analysis, not a disclaimer style notice in a list article. --A.Garnet 21:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Those sources would do well in the Ottoman Empire article, but to summarise them as implying the Ottoman Empire was a Turkic-Persianate and not Turkic or Turkish seems an original interpretation of the sources. One can simirlarly find sources presenting an influence of Byzantine or Arab tradition, from which I am meant to add the empire may be consider Turko-Byzantine in character? Regardless of this, the list article is not the place to discuss such claims, the Ottomans were a Turkish empire, enough sources refer to it as such and that is more than sufficient to list it without disclaimers in the article. Thanks, --A.Garnet 18:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Safavids

Sorry I had to revert your edits, I was trying to restore the sourced info that Dariush4444 deleted. Feel free to do your copyedits, just make sure you check the edit history of the page next time. Thanks, Khoikhoi 00:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. However, I think it would be a good idea if you didn't revert the intro for now. There should be a consensus among all editors on it until you make changes like that. Also, I don't want to see you blocked again. Khoikhoi 00:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Tajik, in response to your posting on my talk page, I am not starting an edit war, but you should not be editing the page, when we are involved in an unresolved dispute on talk page. That's normal way this page has been operating to avoid edit wars and all consequences thereof. Disputes are resolvable, and the version currently there is not even final by me, but by Sa.Vakilian and supported by Ali Doostzadeh and few others. Even Kiumars agrees with many points, while you try to change very sensitive information without final decisions. Let's get back to discussion and exercise some patience and understanding of opposite points, just like most of us do. Atabek 00:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello Tajik. I just made a minor change to your version if the intro so people dont mistaken Iranian Azerbaijan with the Azerbaijan republic.Azerbaijani 00:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Tag

Dear Tajik. I believe the Nasreddin article is natural enough to remove the disputed tag. What do you think? Regards ← ← Parthian Shot (Talk) 10:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Azeris

Hello Tajik. Yes, I think your compromise edit will be okay. Although, it might be better to replace Armenians (which is accurate) with Peoples of the Caucasus. Thanks for mediating as I too did not want to get involved in a protracted argument. Cheers. Tombseye 18:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Re

Tajik, I don't think it matters if you wikified it or not, are you aware that calling someone a "hypocrite" and accusing them of "vandalism" is still inappropriate? It is possible to get into an argument with someone without insulting them. Also, what about List of Turkic states and empires? Khoikhoi 06:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this what you're talking about? It appears to be restored anyways. Usually hypocrite is considered an insult in English; what meaning does the word have in Persian? Khoikhoi 04:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Persian transliteration

Salam!

Please see . We need to change the WP:MoS for Persian transliteration. MoS forces us to use Arabic transliteration for Persian words. It makes no sense. Please see the problem I have now on transliteration of Kiarostami.

Let's make a guideline: Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (Persian) / WP:MOS-PE. ANy idea? I copy/pasted the Arabic guideline to my user page. let's work here first and then propose it. User:Sangak/Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Persian)

Sangak 13:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Safavids

Okay, I'll take a look at this as soon as I get a chance. Tombseye 20:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hephthalites

Hi Tajik. The Hephthalites are a people. They certainly were actors in the history of Greater Iran, but they cannot be reduced to a segment of the history of that region, can they? They came from, and expanded into areas beyond Greater Iran. It is a little bit like adding a template "History of France" to the article on the Huns or Attila don't you agree? An article such as "History of the Hephthalites" would be a better candidate, although "History of the Hephthalites in Greater Iran" would be the only true candidate I think. Also, are we going to add "History of Central Asia", "History of Asia", "History of the world" templates to this article? Regards PHG 11:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami: FAC

Hi

I would like to invite all members of Persian cinema wikiproject to comment on Abbas Kiarostami at this "final" stage. The article is now featured article candidate. In case you have any comment, please let me know on the Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Abbas Kiarostami page. Thanks.Sangak 16:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

New Wikiproject

• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Persian literature

I thought this might help to organise efforts for Persian language/literature related articles. To be honest I think at the moment the articles on Persian literature and poetry are in need of a lot of improvement. --Rayis 19:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Afghan musicians

I added information on a few Afghan singers under the Afghan musicians category. Can you please go through them and add any additional information that you may know about singers of Afghanistan since you are an Afghan. Thanks....NeutralWriter

Norouz

Hey Tajik, I wanted to ask if you had any input on the Norouz page, which I think can do with some work to make it a bit better. My main concern is that I have had a look at the Kurdish article and they seem to celebrate the usual Chaharshanbe suri and Sizda bedar too. So my question is why should the Norouz article have a "In modern Iran" section? Don't Afghanis and Tajiks, and also Kurds everywhere celebrate pretty much the same thing, in pretty much the same order?! (I can't see how it can be in any other order). Many thanks --Rayis 00:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have started a discussion for merging at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Norouz#Merge_2 --Rayis 00:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Persian)

Please participate in the discussion. Jahangard 21:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: vandalism?!

No, not vandalism. I've asked someone to semi-protect it anyways. BTW, Atabek posted a comment at User talk:Khoikhoi#Persistent personal attacks by User:Tajik. I just wanted to point out that Misplaced Pages:Civility#Examples specificially says, "Calling someone a liar, or accusing him/her of slander or libel. Even if true, such remarks tend to aggravate rather than resolve a dispute." Would you mind not using this word again? Also accusing people of "anti-Persian ethnocentrism" is inappropriate as well. I don't like have to warn you for this kind of stuff, but I honestly feel that saying things like that can really agrivate a dispute. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Thanks, Khoikhoi 04:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Safavids intro

Sounds good to me but the dynasty was mutli lingual correct?Azerbaijani 19:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Urgent attention

Salam. Hale shoma khube?

According to WikiCharts — Top 100 — 03/2007 Battle of Thermopylae and 300 (film) are the 2nd and 4th articles of wikipedia which have been viewed in this month. There are some Iranian who watch 300 (film) but nobody pay attention to Battle of Thermopylae. Editing this article needs a lot of historian information and I'm ignorant in this case. I tried to correct the lead and wanted them to add sources and they did so. I can't help anymore .Please pay attention to it. Khoda negahdare shoma. Sa.vakilian(t-c)--16:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey Invitation

Hi there, I am a research student from the National University of Singapore and I wish to invite you to do an online survey about Misplaced Pages. To compensate you for your time, I am offering a reward of USD$10, either to you or as a donation to the Wikimedia Foundation. For more information, please go to the research home page. Thank you. --WikiInquirer 02:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge

Do you know how to move Shabnam Suraya under Shabnam Surayo. If so please do, thanks. :)

Regarding edits made 21 March 2007 to Persian Gulf

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Some of your recent edits have been considered unhelpful or unconstructive and have been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Ammar 01:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

I am frankly amazed that after the enormous number of warnings and blocks you have received for your edit warring with E104421 for months, it continues to this day . Your current block is for a month this time, and let me warn you that it will quickly become permanent if you continue the same behavior when you return. Dmcdevit·t 08:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can see no alternative to this measure, either. --Ghirla 08:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I had asked him more than once to present his sources and to use the talk page. Yet, he has ignored my advices and continued his POV. He is purposely using fake sources and he is purposely misinterpreting sources. Not only in the Xionites article, but also elsewhere, for example in the Turko-Persian Tradition article where he removed the word "Persian" in a bad faith edit without giving any reasons WHY he removed the word. And again, he refused to use the talk page, while he continued to accuse others. Instead of constantly blocking and preventing constructive works, you admins should react much earlier - for example by protecting articles. Tājik 12:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Unblocked

I have unblocked you now, but I urge you to keep it calm. _→AzaToth 14:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Welcome :) Cheers! E104421 23:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, of course, but see WP:WTA#Claim. Best wishes. E104421 00:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Good source with statistics about demographics of districts of Afghanistan

Hello Tajik. I found this very good source that gives a lot of good statistic about the districts of the provinces. I'm using it right now to make a map showing which ethnic group is the largest in each province. You might find it useful too for alot of things. Here it is . --Behnam 05:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Reblocked

Unblocking you was a nice experiment, but you just proved while you will never be a constructive member of this community. You've immediately returned to reverting E104421, for which you've been blocked numerous times now and getting into other edit wars . There's no need to waste the community's time following you around; after so many warnings and blocks you fail to grasp the most elementary aspect of collaborative editing: discussion, not confrontation. You are blocked indefinitely. Dmcdevit·t 08:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Everyone in here knows that this is not true. I have helped to turn three Misplaced Pages articles into FA (Azerbaijani people, Pashtuns, and Iranian peoples), and I was the one who greatly improved the articles Babur, Afghanistan, Seljuq dynasty, Safavid dynasty, and Tajiks. I am the one who wrote the article Qizilbash, the best online source about the Qizilbash available right now! Just ask other members of the community, for example User:Ali doostzadeh or User:Sikandarji (an Oxford academic and the one with whom I have written the Babur article).

Most of my reverts are against vandals (see Latif Pedram or Afghanistan), and obvious falsifications (of course, you as a non-expert do not have any idea of that, but only hide behind your admin status).

Even in this case, I have only ONCE reverted the Greater Iran article (in fact, I was not the only one who reverted the obvious POV; just check the article's history) and the Turco-Mongol article, and as you can see above, I have immidiately contacted User:E104421 and asked him not to start another edit-war.

So, all of this is not really the problem. The problem is that you - personally - want us out, and you abuse your administration rights. In fact, this is anotrher big problem of Misplaced Pages: certain users with no administrative skills get the privilege of blocking people they do not like. This is not a question of "accepting community rules" (and I have proven in 3 FA articles that I do know how to work in a constructive way). This is a question of an admin abusing his admin status. You were just waiting for another revert to block both of us. I have written to three other admins and other users, and I assure you that I am not the only one who believs that YOU are abusing your administration rights! Tājik 08:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I think presenting the reasons for blocking as "while you will never be a constructive member of this community" and "no need to waste the community's time" is not a rational proceeding. User:Tajik has contributed excessively in improving many articles to wikipedia's quality scales. Most of his reverts were against vandalism for example in Afghanistan, Kabul, etc. Although, in many articles, User:Tajik and I did not agree over some points/edits and we had several discussions, I think what he is doing is a constructive contribution in wikipedia.

I was following the Xionites article's edits for some time. I think both users committed the 3RR violation several times, but they were the ONLY two users who contributed in that article. Moreover, User:Tajik was reverting the edits with fake and empty sources. So it cannot be a point at all to accuse him for wasting the communities time.Ariana310 10:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree with Ariana310. Infact I find this very outrageous. Tājik is one of the best contributers to Misplaced Pages that I know of. There is no one more knowledgeable than him about topics on Iranology. If he makes rvs it is because of vandalism. I keep a watch on some of his articles he watches and he always catches alot of vandalism. Now instead of being rewarded for his efforts, he is being punished. It would be huge shame to loose a member like him, and there better be a very good reason for it - and the current reason that he is "edit-waring" with someone is not EVEN close to being a good enough reason. Also below I noticed a sockpuppet user (User:Padishah5000)agreeing on Tajik's ban. But if you look at his edits , he does not have any. So how would he know anything about Tajik? He is clearly a sockpuppet of some other user. I don't like to make accusations since that is not allowed here, but there is a good possibility that someone is trying to get Tajik banned just because they don't like him. Also I've seen Tajik's previous blocks, and those didn't make any sense either, just like this one. There is clearly something wrong here. --Behnam 01:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have temporarily unblocked you and E104421, and has as an experiment added a request for community enforced mediation that you must sign at Misplaced Pages:Community enforceable mediation/Requests, oyu must not engage in any activities except the resolution if this case. _→AzaToth 14:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. However, I am still blocked ... Tājik 17:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Leftover autoblock lifted now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:36, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

We are still waiting for you to agree with the mediation. _→AzaToth 22:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Remember now to not do any other edits outside the mediation case during this time, or you might get reblocked, also the mediator has asked for your input on the mediation case. _→AzaToth 23:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Please describe your reasons for seeking mediation at Misplaced Pages:Community enforceable mediation/Requests. I'm not interested in your view of the other party, but I'm very interested in reasons to believe you'd be able to reach an agreement without turning the process into a circus. I hope you understand that this is an experimental program. Durova 01:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• I agree with the blocking of this user. Tajik is an extremely aggressive editor, with tactics that lack any notion of civility and good faith, in an online community, such as Misplaced Pages. Padishah5000 17:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

How do you know?! You have almost no edits in Misplaced Pages, and you have not contributed to any important article which is disputed: So, whoever you are, please stop using sockpuppets! Tājik 17:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Rumi

Salam. I nominated Rumi as a Good article and 0.7 release version of WP. As a reviewer of Ga Wikiproject I reviewed it informally and wrote my viewpoint and also explain what should be done to to reach GA criteria. We need your help .--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration

You are named in the arbitration case here: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#E104421 and Tajik. Please make a statement regarding your conflict with E104421. Dmcdevit·t 04:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you please translate this (its German)?

Hello Tajik. I'm very outraged at your ban, but hopefully you'll be back soon. Hey since you German, I have something to translate for you. This is in Swiss German, but I'm guessing its the same almost? Well here it is http://www.ork.ch/spip/article.php?id_article=111.

• "Manifestations sur la Place des Nations. Photos de 1 à 5 : Commémoration en hommage au Commandant Ahmad Chah Massoud. Photos de 5 à 10 : une marche blanche avec un laché de ballon."

Also what does "Place des Nations, Genève." mean? Since you can't come on my talk page, just write it here, and I'll check back. --Behnam 02:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually never mind, I just realized this is in French, not German. And I already know enough French to know what this means. Still, check out the picture. I think you'll like it. I am uploading this. --Behnam 02:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Very nice pcitures! Ahmad Shah Massoud is very popular in France. Tājik 08:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually this was in Switzerland. Though it was in the French speaking part of it. But yes he is very popular in France too. I'm glad you liked the picture. -- Behnam 07:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

New Article: Tahir Badakhshi

Hello Tajik. I created this new article for Tahir Badakhshi. Please take a look at it for any improvements or corrections you can make. Thanks. --Behnam 02:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you think I should add this in a See Also section for the Latif Pedram article? And vice-versa? Because they have some similarities (both being from Badakhshan for example and other obvious things). Please let me know here, I'll check back. --Behnam

I think you know both of them alot better than I do, so its totally up to you. -- Behnam 19:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

ps: I am very happy you are back from your block! It would have been a great tragedy if you were banned, so I'm very glad you're back! --Behnam 19:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | 12:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Ahem, Tajik, as far as I understand your currently being unblocked is still only conditional, and so is the (likely) postponement of the Arbcom case. So, before you go back to making potentially controversial edits, especially in the kind of area you were in dispute over with E (like Turkic peoples or Timurid dynasty), can I ask you to first do something to get that mediation going? Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

OK ... Tājik 23:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:CEM

Tajik, did you read what Durova asked here? I think she's asking for a reply... - Penwhale | 08:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

vandalism on Afghanistan provinces

NisarKand is back with an old sockpuppet of his, User:Aero stud24. He is vandalizing all the articles on Afghanistan's provinces by claiming that Pashto is spoken in every single province and other outrageous things like Panjshiri is a distinct language and Hazaragi is a distinct language. Just look at this and this. Its totally outrageous. I have all of them on my watchlist and I have reported him. But can you also please add them all to your watch list? Thanks. --Behnam 01:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I keep reverting them, but just wanted to let you know also for the future because I have a feeling that he won't quit and will keep doing this in the future. --Behnam 02:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

re: Qizilbash

Oh ok, I see. But actually I did not really make an edit, I just did an RV by an edit that was from an IP user so I thought it might have been vandalism. But ok, I reverted it back. Hope that helps. Take care. --Behnam 08:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Imam Razi

Hi! I just wanted to remind you that if you came across a reliable source which would state that Fakhr al-Din al-Razi was from Persian origin, please let me know. Because in its article, a user denies the fact that he was from Persian origin, and I cannot find a reliable source to justify my point. Thanks.Ariana310 19:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

new Afghanistan ethnicity and languages maps

Hello Tajik. I made these 2 new maps. Please let me know any corrections to make or any improvements. Also you might ask me about Aimaks, but apparently the government of Afghanistan labels them as Tajiks so I'm just going by that.

--Behnam 00:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

anything Turkic in Central Asia (Babur talk page)

Well, Tajik, let me quote you here: "that calling Timur and Babur Turks and pointing toward a Turkic culture (whatever that may be, since there is no such thing as Turkic culture in Central-Asia) is not correct". Your claim that there 'is no such thing as Turkic culture in Central Asia' is definitely POV and simply outrageous! What can you back that claim with? I mean, I don't support any Pan-Turkist ideology or Turkish nationalism, but that statement of yours is going too far, for anyone objective, reasonable, and educated enough (on the subject matter) to maintain a neutral view. There is no way denying the huge impact and influence that islamicised Persian culture (which itself vastly got influenced by Islamic religion, hence Arabian Language and Culture and vice versa, however, influenced it) had on the various and more or less related Turkic tribes converting to Islam and migrating to Transoxiana and further south and west, be it those under the Uyghur/Turkic Karakhanid dynasty or the later Turkic AND Mongolian tribes which under the leadership of Chingiz Khan's Mongols conquered, among other regions, e.g. what later became 'Western Turkestan/Turkistan' (that had a rather long history linked with both Iranian/aryan peoples and Iran) whereas Turkic languages almost exclusively prevailed over Mongolian (think of the Tatar and Kazakh). For heaven's sake, before their conversion to Islam the Turkic Uyghur Khaganats let the religions practised by the Soghdians, namely Buddhism, Manichaeism and the Nestorian Church flourish in their domain; these got widespread among the primarily animist and shamanist populace, and relicts of scriptures and artifacts dating back to the 8th century from modern-day Mongolia and East Turkestan like the city of Turpan tell us that there must have been Uyghur Turkic monks in huge numbers translating from various languages to Uyghur and back, and Uyghur literature was thriving at that time (I've stumbled upon one of your comments that, to sum it up, kind of deny the existence of Turkic literature before Chagatay!). Chinese, Soghdian, Sanskrit, Tokharian etc. loanwords found their way into the Turkic languages (No, bagatyr, baatoor, batyr etc. is Turkic, Altaic at least). Fact of the matter is, the Turkic languages, even in their earliest recorded form show a tendency toward certain sounds that predominate in the Aryan languages that set them a little apart from the other Altaic languages like Mongolian supposedly due to contacts with the Scythians and such which resulted in sound shifts. In other words: cultures and languages influence eath other, the Aryans, the Persians in particular were not the only relevant historic group in that region, neither did they invent the weel. Indeed, an undeniable amount of 'original' and 'aboriginal' Aryan and Persian culture and religion fell prey to their fellow Muslims just like Persian Language suffered great losses not surprisingly because of the increased usage of Arabic as the 'holy language of Islam' though Persian became - in its islamicised form - the predominant language of court and literature in many Islamic kingdoms and Persian Culture, now adjusted to Islamic requirements, flourished. But, say, how many words in Persian are of Arabian origin, is e.g. nowadays' Persian a direct lossless transition from ancient Avestian without any foreign influences? What about modern Persian grammar compared to its historic predecessors? When considering topics that involve Turkic peoples, one has to bear in mind the simple fact that they were nomads who more or less originated in eastern, and particularly north-eastern Central Asia (and Siberia), who invaded ancient civilisations and became their rulers, but often - as rulers caste - showed great interest in these cultures and over generations assimilated to them. 'Turkic slaves heroically becoming kings' is almost something like a historical motif: the Turkic tribe that first carried the name Türk and became renowned with it (6th century onwards), was actually a tribe that was enslaved by another one. In fact the tribe name Türk, Türküt might go back to the name of the Turghut, who now speak a Mongolian language, and originally might have been of Mongolian stock . Turkic and Mongolian tribes originally had similar or equal lifestyles, cultures and religions and often formed confederacies, sometimes the Turkic would assimilate to the Mongolian, sometimes it would be the other way round; their languages belong to the Altaic language family, and are closely related by the way. To some extent the populations where they migrated to sometimes would assimilate to them via intermarriage or direct assimilation; in other cases they assimilated to those as stated above. This has clearly no 'racial ' implication, someone with a racist ideology would most definitely consider them a 'mixed race' or something (Pan-Turkism and Turkish nationalism are another matter though...). Maybe I ought to point out that the Aryan people, that migrated to Iran from the northern regions, originally seemed to possess lighter complexion and hair colour, like the Skythians. I mean, there are no 'pure races', the very concept of 'human races' is ridicolous. When dealing with the history of an ethnicity, which is mostly defined by language and culture, not race, or with closely related ethnicities as is the case here (al-Qashgari considered Oghuz, Uyghur and Kyrgyz as dialects of the same language that he called Turk), it is essential to do justice to them in terms of socioanthropological categories.

You can't deny the presence of Turkic peoples, their languages, histories, and I have to say common shared history and also, yes I have to stress that FACT, their cultures as millenia old in what is to be considered Central-Asia, a region that thus was not solely inhabited by Aryans and by far DID NOT belong to 'Greater Iran' but was a melting pot of cultures throughout HUMAN HISTORY (Silk Road, anyone?). Notanativespeaker 13:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I did mean to say Central-Asia never belonged to 'Greater Iran' in its entirety (parts of it did for sure, no one's doubting that), sorry for that. Besides, I referred to and am currently referring to the UNESCO's definition of Central-Asia.134.100.1.177 13:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

Blocked: Indefinitely. You have been using sockpuppets and edit warring from IP addresses while logged out, as proven by checkuser, as a deliberate means of avoiding the arbitration proceeding against you. I will unblock you for the sole purpose of participating in your arbitration case if and only if you agree to proceed with arbitration and agree not to edit any other pages from any alternate account or IP address pending the resolution of the case. Otherwise, consider yourself indefinitely banned. Thatcher131 01:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I have NEVER used sockpuppets! Just check my IP RIGHT NOW and you will see that I have NOTHING to do with ANY anon IP edits! There are only 14 minutes between my THIS edit and your message. Just check my IP and you'll see that I have NOTHING to do with the other anon IPs! This must be a JOKE! Tājik 01:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Tajik, the determination was made based on a CheckUser result, which showed that it was highly likely that both User:Tajik-Professor and other anons are you based on IP evidence. Dmcdevit·t 01:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

This MUST be a joke! Tajik-Professor is a sockpuppet of User:NisarKand, a user who had vandalised carious Afghanistan-related articles. Instead of only concentrating on CheckUser, a program with various mistakes, just go through the edits! And what does you CheckUser say right now?! Am I the same person as the anon IP - as you people claim??? This MUST be a JOKE! Or it is an evil plan to kick me out of Misplaced Pages, only because you do not like what I writ! People like User:Atabek are allowed to participate in Misplaced Pages, although 90% of their edits are Anti-Armenian propaganda, and here, you accuse me of using sockpuppets, although it is well known that these alledged sockpuppets were those of other users?! Tājik 01:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I would highly recommend you defend yourself in the arbitration case, as it will soon proceed due to the result of community enforceable mediation. - Penwhale | 18:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess I have no other alternative. Except for one last point: the claim that User:Tajik-Professor (a sockpuppet of User:NisarKand whose edits are totally contrary to my edits) is nonsense! I neither have the same IP nor any similar edits. The claim is just hillarious. I have never used sockpuppets or fake IP accounts!!! Tājik 01:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I was just dropping by to see what happened to you, and now I see this latest ridicioulous allegation that you are user: Tajik-Professor. I actually know user: Tajik-Professor personally and so obviously I would know if he was user: Tajik or not. user: Tajik-Professor is from several Afghanistan forums and I know him personally over MSN. If you don't believe that, then just look at his contributions. user: Tajik-Professor does not even know how to edit Wiki properly. He doesn't even know how to make a link here. So there is no way user: Tajik-Professor is user: Tajik. THIS IS RIDICIOULOUS! If this is the reason user: Tajik is blocked, this is such a great injustice. We would be loosing one of the finest conributers over a totally silly allegation!!! This is an outrage and I won't give up until it is 100% understood that user: Tajik-Professor is not him!!! --Behnam 04:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Unblock-Request

Tajik (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I want to defend myself in the arbitration case Tājik 16:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Per the above thread, e-mail Thatcher131 (or any arbitrator) and agree to abide by Thatcher131's conditions. You may then be unblocked. — Sandstein 14:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Unblock-Request II

Tajik (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

same reasons as above; I have written mails to 4 different admins, including Dmcdevit, Thatcher131, and Sandstein. But they are all ignoring my mail. In my mail to Thatcher131, I asked an unblock in order to defend myself in the arbcom ... I even asked him for conditions. But he keeps ignoring the mail, further underlining my assumption that these admins just want me blocked and were just waiting for justification; now that they blocked me with a totally false accusation, they keep ignoring my mails and do not want me to defend myself in the arbcom. Tājik 23:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Checkuser reveals it is likely your are continuing to use anon IPs and sockpuppets. If you have responses to your arbitration case, please email an arbitrator or clerk active in the case, or post them here so a clerk can include them in the case. — Vassyana 18:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I am just template linking the above for now. Do you agree to proceed with arbitration? Will you agree to refrain from other editing until the abritration is resolved? Will you agree not to edit from alternative accounts and not to edit as an IP user until the case is resolved? Vassyana 17:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

What is CheckUser doing? GOSH, I have not editted anything! CheckUser is a weak system which checks IPs and then suggests something that is totally impossible! My internet connection is provided by Arcor (Telecommunications), a company that is based in Frankfurt. My IP is similar to that of hundreds of southends of other people in Germany who use Arcor ... even if they live many miles away! I am living in Hamburg, but if you check my IP, you'll probably get a range for Bavaria or maybe Hessen, because that's where Arcor is based. Your accusations are totally baseless. I have never used sockpuppets. In all those years in which I editted Misplaced Pages, I have never changed my nick, nor have I used any IPs. I could not continue the arbcom, because I was not home for a month. When I got back, I only wrote a small comment in the Safavid dynasty talk page (check my history), and then ... suddenly ... some admin blocked me and accused me of using IPs. That's totally stupid! Why should I use my own nick to write a comment and then use the same IP to write something esle as a puppet? Does that make any sense to you? I have already agreed to take part in the arbcom, and I've written 5 mails to five different admins. But they keep ignoring my mail! I have not signed up as "Tajik", because I want you to see my IP. I do not use any other IP! 84.58.137.10 20:20, 9 June 2007 (UTC)