| Revision as of 03:49, 16 January 2007 editHipal (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers137,835 edits →WikiStalked by Ronz and fyslee (who works with Stephen Barrett)← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 16:43, 24 December 2024 edit undoRc2barrington (talk | contribs)109 edits →North Korean involvement in Russian-Ukraine war discussion: ReplyTag: Reply | ||
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| ==Obvious sock threatening to take legal action== | |||
| {{atop|1=VPN socking blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| {{atop|result=IP 2409:40D6:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 range block has been blocked for 6 months. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| ] has been socking to edit a wide range of caste articles, especially those related to ]s . This range belongs to ] and has been socking using proxies and VPNs too. Many of which have been blocked. Now they are threatening to take legal action against me "{{tq|but how far we will remain silence their various optimistic reason which divert my mind to take an legal action against this two User}}" . - ] (]) 11:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Just as ignorant as he is known longtime abnormal activation and especially on those of ] article see his latest revision on ] you will get to urge why he have atrocity to disaggregating ] but pm serious node i dont mention him not a once but ypu can also consolidate this ] who dont know him either please have a eyes on him for a while ] (]) 12:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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| :But wait a second as per ] i dont take his name either not even so dont even try to show your true culler midway cracker and admin can you please not i am currently ranged blocked as my network is Jio telecom which was largely user by various comers] (]) | |||
| <!-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --> | |||
| ::Please tell me there's a language issue at play here, and that the IP didn't mention ] and use a racist slur in the same sentence there... —''']''' (]) 12:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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| :::I think it's both. ] (]) 12:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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| :::Well, we linguists don't like anecdotal evidence, but I'll provide some: I (non-native speaker of English, with a linguistics PhD) had to look up all the potential candidates for a slur in that post, and when I did find one it's not one I'd ever heard. However, "crackers" is an insult in Hindi, so I'd say it is most likely a PA, just not the one an American English speaker might understand it as. --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 13:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| ::::At least in the South, an American would recognize ] as a pejorative. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 13:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Sure, but the IP user who used the word said they are in India, and their post contains various typical non-native speaker errors. ("culler" instead of "colour", for instance) --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 16:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::<small>Funny thing is you go far ''enough'' south it wraps back around again: ] - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| * Observation: the IP just on the talk page of the ] article. It's peripheral, and the IP is pretty clearly involved. Is this a bad-faith edit by the IP, or should we just take their suggestion and extended-confirmed protect the page?... —''']''' (]) 12:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:Is there a Dudi ]? Though I will note there is a lot of overlap between the "Indian Subcontinent" and "South Asian social strata" topic areas. —] ] <sup><small>] ]</small></sup> 21:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| *Noting that this person (Truthfindervert?) has taken to using VPNs. I’ve blocked a couple today. --] (]) 22:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by ] == | |||
| ==Canvassing for bot approval== | |||
| Section moved to ] | |||
| The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of ] and ]. Issues began when this editor . They did it and and . | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Instead of starting a discussion on the talk page of the article, the user came to ] to let me know of their opinion of my contributions. When I on the talk page of the relevant article, the user and according to their POV. When I let them know that this was highly inappropriate according to ], both and , they ] stating {{tq|ever since the stupid Misplaced Pages Dec. 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, to able to edit or view Misplaced Pages at all from my home computer, I have to use an indirect method which involves a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool. I couldn't even really see your signature that way, and so didn't know to try to avoid changing it|q=y}}, which I had never heard of. In any case, they kept reverting the content supported by the reliable source, they also kept attempting to apply their POV to the discussion heading and and . I that I had and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, and they went ahead and . | |||
| ] has posted on my talk page () (3 days ago, but since the last time I checked Misplaced Pages) asking to be blocked. That user then vandalised their own userpage () and talkpage (), and reverted the vandalism on their own userpage with a note implying that the account has been compromised (). I'm reporting the issue here now, but as the user has not edited for almost 2 days this probably isn't urgent. --] 10:45, 8 January 2007 (]]]) | |||
| <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| :The other user in this case is ]? This looks like a content dispute over whether the article is on the English version of a German-Arabic dictionary or the dictionary itself. ] (]) 15:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == antivandalbot error report == | |||
| ::Yes the is indeed about ]. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating ] repeatedly even after I that I had and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and . ] (]) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. ] (]) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::It's a conduct issue. ] (]) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "{{tqi|Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless of how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible. It can also sometimes be appropriate to merge entire sections under one heading (often preserving the later one as a subheading) if their discussions are redundant.}}" To be blunt, if you don't want editors changing the headings of sections you start, don't use such terrible headings. I definitely recommend you stay away from ANI since changing headings is quite common here. ] (]) 06:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. ] (]) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::‎إيان: I suggest you stop messing around with the section heading since it's a distraction which could easily lead to you being blocked. But if AnonMoos changes your signature again, report it and only that without silliness about section headings, mentioning that they've been warned about it before if needed. ] (]) 06:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I wrote a long and detailed explanation on his user talk page as to why the date-only header is basically useless in that context, but he's still for some peculiar reason fanatically determined to keep changing it back. Frankly, I've basically run out of good-faith reasons that make any sense -- except of course, his apparently unshakable belief that he has certain talk-page "rights", which according to Misplaced Pages guidelines he does '''not''' in fact have (outside of his own personal user talk page)... ] (]) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Richard Branson's page was edited for the 2nd time today, text is full of attention-seeking vandalism. Should consider closing this page's editing. | |||
| :{{replyto|AnonMoos}} I don't see a problem with changing the heading but why on earth did you change their signature multiple times ? That is indeed a clear violation of ] since the signature was perfectly valid per ]. In fact your change was far worse since it changed a perfectly valid signature which would take other editors to the contributor's talk page and user page into an invalid one which lead no where. If you're using some sort of plugin which does that, it's your responsibility to manage it better so it doesn't do that ever again especially if you're going to edit talk pages where it might be common. If you're doing that intentionally, I suggest you cut it out or expect to be indeffed. ] (]) 06:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| ::], this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::: For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet . This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. ). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later . Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. ] ] 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Misplaced Pages securely. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Should be impossible as it's required to even access the site in the first place according to ]]<sup>] </sup> 16:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::<strike>Looking at his talk page it's been going back to at least 2011]<sup>] </sup> 16:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)</strike> | |||
| :Guys, I do not deliberately set out to modify signatures, and when it happens, I am not usually aware of doing so. As I've already explained before in several places, since the December 2019 encryption protocol upgrade (NOT 2011!), the only way I can edit (or view) Misplaced Pages at all from home is by an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. To change this, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection, which would permanently disconnect my older computer, which I still use almost every day. | |||
| :Meanwhile, this thread has been set up so I can't add a comment to it from home without affecting Unicode characters, so I was unable to reply here for 36 hours or so. If I'm silent in the future, it will be for the same reason. ] (]) 01:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Misplaced Pages uses Unicode characters (] encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should '''not edit'''. ] (]) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Misplaced Pages '''at all''' unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Misplaced Pages developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Misplaced Pages's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Misplaced Pages from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... ] (]) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::...] was created in ''1994'', and became an official specification in '''2000''', not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Misplaced Pages with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web ''at all'', and the security hole that lets you access Misplaced Pages without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is ''not'' working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - ] <sub>]</sub> 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::You unfortunately don't know what you're talking about. New ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL METHODS have been introduced ''within'' HTTPS from time to time. I was using HTTPS perfectly happily until December 2019, when the developers arbitrarily ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. ] (]) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::And even leaving that aside, as Johnuniq mentions - if you can't edit without corrupting Unicode characters, and by your own admission you ''don't know when it happens'', you shouldn't be editing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::This is probably a reference to when Misplaced Pages started requiring TLS 1.2 (because earlier versions were deprecated). Anyone who was/is still on Windows XP at that point couldn't connect any more. ] (]) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I'm not talking about when the update happening, I'm talking about how you have known about this issue, and have been getting complainants about it since <strike>2011</strike>and are still not taking any steps to do anything about it. What kind of internet connection would not support your PC? What on earth are you even using? Dial-Up? Because that still is supported by even Windows 10. ]<sup>] </sup> 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| <strike>:::Also, how did you see me saying "this has happened since 2011" as me saying that the update happened in 2011? Can you clarify. ]<sup>] </sup> 03:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) </strike> | |||
| ::::The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... ] (]) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: Apologies. I was extremely tired when I wrote both above. I have striken the date parts. Rest of my comments still stand. ]<sup>] </sup> 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ===None of this matters=== | |||
| I don't care what tool this guy uses or what his excuse is. If he can't edit without screwing up people's sigs, then he must not edit. {{U|AnonMoos}} shouls consider himself on notice now that if one of his edits messes stuff up one more time, he'll be blocked until he can give assurance that he's come into the 21st century. ]] 18:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :That's nice -- and also totally inaccurate. I ''was'' in the 21st century, and using 2012 tools, up until December 2019, when the developers pitchforked me backwards by arbitrarily imposing HTTPS ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS which my home computer hardware is not able to run. Notice that I had no problem complying with character-set handling -- the problem is with arbitrary ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. ] (]) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::The century imagery is irrelevant. You have been warned. ]] 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::That was ''six years ago'', which is IMO about 3-4 years too long to keep using it as an excuse. Technology changes over time, so whatever this non-standard thing you think you need to do to edit here, it may be time to make a choice. ] (]) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Misplaced Pages developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... ] (]) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::And just to say for the third time: you're out of chances. "Occassionally" is too often. Once more is too often. And if and when that happens, your attitude of entitlement displayed here will pretty much ensure an indefinite block. ]] 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::If you have DSL or even DialUp. That still works with modern machines. ]<sup>] </sup> 01:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Heck, ''I'' am on DSL (and have been since, if I recall right, 2008). I have no idea what sort of ancient Internet connection AnonMoos is claiming to be using, but it's clearly one that was already obsolete before this change he's still up in arms about six years later was made. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *The response by AnonMoos to feedback about this problem is bizarre. I don't really care what the excuse or the history behind it. If you are unwilling to edit Misplaced Pages using tools that work in 2024 then you should stop editing. The behavior is completely unnecessary and it seems like you don't understand the disruption. ] (]) 14:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * AnonMoos hasn't really explained in any detail what their technical limitations are. They don't have to, but we can't really give advice otherwise. If as others have suggested their computer can't negotiate TLS 1.2, I'm surprised that they're able to use any websites at all from that computer. Requiring TLS 1.2 is not controversial; Misplaced Pages wasn't doing anything unusual in dropping TLS 1.0/1.1 around that time. ] ] 15:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| For several weeks now a highly aggressive and partisan new contributor, Raspor, has been causing serious disruption at ], ], ], and ] as well as various user talk pages. This prompted me to file a user conduct RFC, ], where there was a huge turn out from both sides of the debate against his behavior. He has dismissed the community's input and is now attempting to expand his disruption with petty trolling: He's exhausted the community's patience, as recent comments on my talk page and the RFC talk page indicate. | |||
| == Disruptive editing by ] == | |||
| Considering the disruption he's caused over the last 72 hours and his unwillingness to moderate his behavior despite many past warnings and kindlier efforts, something needs to be done to get his attention. ] 22:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I support either a community ban in general (given his increasing incivility) or a topic ban on articles related to creationism and evolution in the broad sense. A week or so ago I favoured the latter, but he has now moved to trolling user talk pages. I am now in favour of a community ban. ] 22:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| The ] is engaging in disrupte editing. Neither does this IP provide sources and is POV pushing. And this IP has been warned multiple times for this on his/her talk page. | |||
| ::This is getting ridiculous. This guy has done very little but troll in the time he's been here. I recommend a lengthy block - maybe 72 hours, or even a week - and for it to be made absolutely clear to him that what he is doing is just not on. Mind you, if anyone wants to block indef, I won't be calling for your desysopping. I can just about envisage this fellow turning into a decent editor, but it's a stretch. Block now and the next time he trolls kick him out for good. ] <sup> ]</sup> 22:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 20:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| : I strongly support a block. However, given that the user has only one previous block- a standard 3RR block, an indefinite block at this point seems uncalled for. I would recommend some block time between 24 to 96 hours. ] 22:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :@]: It looks like you both are ] on ].<sup class="plainlinks"></sup> That's not particularly helpful, so you should try to have a discussion on the ] as to whether you should include the ] name for the article in the lead/infobox. –<span style="font-family:CG Times, times">] ]<sup>]</sup></span> 20:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Four days seems more than a bit light for the amount of disruption he's caused and the fact he simply shugged off his last block. ] 22:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::MJL why and how did you pick out that one article over the many this IP has made recent changes to? The IP has been making disputed edits for months and has been reverted by a number of editors, not just Moroike. ] (]) 01:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::@]: I am not suggesting that the IP editor isn't being disruptive, but my point is that {{u|Moroike}} isn't making the situation better (using the example of that one article). You can see this by looking at <span class="plainlinks"></span> where {{gender:Moroike|he has|she has|they have}} mostly just reverted this editor without using a summary. –<span style="font-family:CG Times, times">] ]<sup>]</sup></span> 18:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::The IP's edits were removed a total of 13 times on the page regarding the capital city of ], ]. You can't let him continue engaging in further edit wars with other users besides Moroike, can you? ] (]) 17:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Since this IP user won't stop and is stonewalling, either he/should be temporarily blocked, or all the pages he is POV pushing without sources, should be semi-protected, so that only registered users can edit them. ] (]) 21:37, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == User engaged in edit warring to remove disputed content prior to consensus == | |||
| ::: If the user goes back to the same things after the block we can always immediately respond with another block. However, if someone blocks for a week I'm not going to object. ] 22:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|There's nothing actionable in this content dispute, except perhaps trouting the original poster for failing to assume good faith and hounding friendly admins when they try to help. Longtime user ] (4.5 yrs, over 5K edits) has made several assertions based on their clear misunderstanding of social norms. In this discussion they've failed to notify the subject (they actually failed to use the subject's name in the OP), they've failed to bring any diffs, they failed to sign their post, and over and over they seem to have failed to assume good faith of their fellow editors. A number of editors including several admins have attempted to talk Sxbbetyy down. Nobody in this discussion seems to agree with Sxbbetyy on the merits, yet Sxbbetyy keeps circling back to their own personal interpretation of policy. The discussion at ], where Sxbbetyy refuses to listen to the admin they asked, gives another example of the problem. Sxbbetyy is reminded that creating a post on ANI puts all their own behaviors up for examination. ] (]) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| Title is pretty self explanatory. Rather than engage in the consensus building process to determine if the disputed content discussed ] is problematic, ] editor has instead immediately reverted the disputed content. They have been informed of the relevant policies prohibiting this behavior and how it should normally be handled (tagging the content as disputed while the discussion is ongoing) but have elected to instead engage in edit warring to keep the disputed content removed prior to any consensus on the matter. Also important to note that they wish to have the content removed entirely, but have stated that they no longer intend to participate in the consensus building discussion. So this appears to be a ] tactic to accomplish their goal of removing the content immediately without a consensus. Seeking admin help to halt this behavior and restore the content with the correct tagging.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Xsign --> | |||
| ::::If we want to do this incrementally, then I would propose a couple weeks of a topic ban - tell him to stay away from articles related to evo-creo (and stop trolling user talk pages). ] 22:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :It would help if you named the editor and signed your name to figure out what you are talking about; a noticeboard only works if you give us notice about the subject and what is happening. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 23:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::The editor appears to be {{u|PerfectSoundWhatever}}, based on the under the word "this" as well as . — ] <sub>]</sub> 23:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::My apology, this is my very first time making such a post. The other pages o have spoken on seemed to have signed themselves automatically. Will remember this going forward. And yes, that was the user, posted this using my phone so I didn't want to mis-spell their name, just linked instead. ] (]) 17:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :{{non-admin comment}} IMO the best practice is that in the event of a content dispute, the article should be reverted to the status quo of how the article's content appeared before the dispute started, until such a time that consensus is established to re-add it (see: ]). It seems like the beginning of the content that is in dispute was added on 18 August 2024, the dispute began a few weeks later on 23 September 2024 and has been ongoing ever since.{{pb}}In this case, since the article existed in a relatively steady state for several months (or even years?) previous to the disputed material being added, I think it'd be wise to leave the disputed content out of the article until the discussion comes to a close. ] (]) 00:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I have been seeing this opinion from a few editors and even one admin on how to interpret this article. However, the first few sentences in that section do outright state to avoid reverting the disputed content prior to a consensus. And prior to opening this report, I asked several admins on the topic and got a response that reverting the disputed content immediately is incorrect per WP:STATUSQUO as it bypasses the consensus building process. I was advised that the content should instead be tagged as disputed rather than be outright removed. The offending user was made aware of the relevant policies but has nonetheless engaging in edit warring to keep it reverted, hence this report. ] (]) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::The status quo of an article constitutes implicit consensus (]). The person trying to include disputed content in an article despite it not being status quo is the one that could be construed as attempting to bypass the consensus building process, not the person trying to maintain status quo until discussion takes place. ] (]) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Correct, and at no point was the definition of what constitutes the status quo ever in contention. In fact, if you review the edit history of the article you can see that the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content, and then continued to revert it as others tried to restore it (both before and after the consensus discussion began). ] (]) 23:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::{{tq|1=the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content}}<br>Not really, I personally wouldn't define "been there a few weeks" as status quo.{{pb}}I think maybe the other replies to this thread provide pretty good reasoning to take a step back and say "hey maybe I'm the one in the wrong here" instead of talking in circles ] (]) 00:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Personally I think the number of contributions since the edit where it has gone unchanged is a more useful metric, especially on low traffic pages such as this one. Regardless, per the policy you cite, there seems to be no official Misplaced Pages stance on what exact criteria are needed for a contribution to be considered the current status quo, beyond it having been unchallenged in subsequent contributions (which is the case here). | |||
| ::::::As for the rest of your comment, there seems to be a high amount of band wagoning and "]" going on in the rest of this. Or people trying to use this report as an extension of the dispute discussion on the article's talk page. Hopefully more actual admins to chime in on the topic as I don't actually want to waste my time talking in circles. | |||
| ::::::On that note thanks for actually taking the time and baseline minimal effort to engage in a discussion where you actually support your point and don't just devolve into repeating the same talking points over and over. It's a nice change of pace. ] (]) 02:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I am the editor being discussed here. I'll provide a summary of events since the initial statement by Sxbbetyy is misleading. | |||
| :Myself and the editor had a content dispute at ] (]) and following circular discussion, I stopped engaging since I felt I had laid out my points. Per ], I maintained the state of the article to before the dispute. I requested for a ], which was answered by {{ping|BerryForPerpetuity}}, who agreed the statement should be removed, albeit for a different reason than mine. I took this 2-1 as rough consensus. I also posted the dispute on two WikiProjects, and have received no response so far. Sxbbetyy reached out to three admins about the matter, {{ping|Sergecross73|Oshwah|Pbsouthwood}}. The ] can be summarized as Sergecross believing that I haven't engaged in misconduct, and that I have presented a "plausible, good-faith interpretation of ]". Sxbbetyy then accused Sergecross73 of not acting in good faith. Oshwah did not respond to the post on ], but {{ping|BusterD}} did, essentially agreeing that the sourcing does not back up the claim in the content dispute. Sxbbetyy received help on ] about responding to a content dispute. And now we're here. | |||
| :Throughout these interactions, Sxbbetyy has demonstrated a failure to assume good faith, refuses to accept ], and ]s talk pages, refusing to let the other editor have the last word. Frankly, this is a massive waste of editor time: it should have been a brief talk page discussion then an RfC. Apologies for all the pings. — ] (]; ]) 00:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::This summarization in itself leaves out critical context, (such as berry's concern being alleviated and them no longer expressing a desire to remove the content), the specifics of why that conversation with Serge ended the way it did despite my repeated attempts to engage with them in good faith, and the entire discussion with pbsouthwood (who quite definitively explained that the behavior PSW was engaged in was not correct). So I urge all involved to go read those topics to get the correct context through your own eyes and then discuss any concerns from what you see here. That being the case, it seems pretty clear cut imo. ] (]) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Just to be clear, in no way did I express that I didn't want the content to be removed. I did not receive a notification for your reply, and I wouldn't have engaged either way. — ] ] 17:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| : Yes, I would leave that material out of the article. Whilst it may not exactly be synthesis ''per se'', it is certainly editorialising ("the removal of that amount of marine debris is of negligible consequence...") ''unless'' there is an actual source that says this by making a link between between the two statistics (the amount of waste removed by Team Seas and the rate at which waste is entering the ecosystem). And even then, I would say that such an edit would need to say something like "However, ARandomNewspaper pointed out that ...". ] 00:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::To clarify, the matter here is exhausting community patience, which isn't something that builds from shorter to longer blocks, is it? There is, of course, a separate issue of his personal attacks and incivility, which probably needs a lot more attention than it has been given. ] 22:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::That is actually no longer the content that is being disputed. If you look at the that got reverted on the article you can see the current version. I had made edits to it precisely because of valid WP:NPOV concerns brought to my attention by PSW. However, their dispute with the content remains with the claim that is is synthesis rather than any other concern. Which they have been thus far unable to obtain a consensus on. ] (]) 17:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *I have some pretty serious ] concerns about the topic starter here. They came to me for help (no idea how/why me, I have no connection to this dispute) and I repeatedly told them I didn't see any misconduct, and then they started attacking ''me'' when I refused to agree with them. And now this. This is a very simple content dispute, with a very simple ] outcome. I've told them this. It's a disappointing time sink on a rather trivial content dispute. ] ] 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I've blocked for one week to start, but if someone wants to block permanently I wouldn't object. ]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></small></sup> 22:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:At no point was he "attacked". I defended myself after he became hostile with me (as anyone can read in our convo, I stated multiple times that I would leave and did not want to be a burden if they didn't want to engage with this, but he made no such objections and continued). Eventually he just became outright hostile and refused to explain their points any further, devolving the conversation into them repeating themselves over and over, its all there to read on his talk page. As for why I contacted him, I wanted to ensure I chose impartially so I just randomly looked at the currently active admins at the time and he was the first one I found. ] (]) 18:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Also wouldn't object to an indefblock. My favorite: "no one ever told me not to call him fellatio. i really dont remember that." No? Oh okay, that's better then. —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 22:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *::The discussion is , if anyone wants to look. The "attack" I'm referring to you is your accusation that I responded to you in bad faith. I was not involved in the dispute, have no stance on it, and had no pre-conceived notions about either of you - what in the world would my motivations be for "bad faith responses"? It doesn't make any sense. You simply didn't get the response you wanted, and proceeded to badger me on it. Did I get vaguely irritated when I volunteered my time to review and comment on a dispute I had no stance or interest in, only to get all sorts of ] responses on it? Yeah, sure, but who wouldn't? ] ] 18:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I'd support a community ban. He seems to be here only to disrupt. ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 23:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *I'm here from my input at the 3rd opinion request. This is nothing more than a trivial content dispute, I see no reason for this to be at ANI. I somewhat agree with the claim of ], it becomes more susceptible to incorrect information, and from my analysis it seemed like the claim in the disputed content was completely wrong. Two different sources, from two different time periods. My $0.02: The claim of stonewalling is ridiculous, there was ample good-faith discussion based on existing policy and guidelines. This editor does not ], it appears that he claims that editors disagreeing are acting in bad faith. From him to administrator Sergecross73: {{tq|"I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."}} It seems that he roots his argument based on the editor who removed it rather than the content itself. Very unfortunate waste of time. — ] ] 15:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Send in the ]! Apart from that, I would support a community ban per a large amount of disruption and incivilty. '']'' 23:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:Exactly. It's not "stonewalling" that's happening here. PerfectSoundWhatever has discussed at-length at the talk page. They're simply not willing to ''talk circles indefinitely''. And we don't require that of editors. I've urged Sxbbetyy to, rather that spin their wheels arguing with the same person endlessly in a stalemate, to try to get other participants to take part. But they've refused, and instead decided to move their arguing to ANI instead. As I noted to them in one of my last comments to them, if they spent half as much effort in consensus-building as they did complaining and arguing, they could have built a consensus by now... ] ] 17:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Am I allowed to say he can fuck off yet? No? ''Kindly'' fuck off? No? Oh well. I'm off to make a new award, the Banstar, for banning those who are obviously not here to help. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 23:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:Reading any of what I wrote in this dispute shows clearly that is not the case. Also, the quoted sentence is completely taken out of context. | |||
| :* Yes, in this case you're allowed to say that. God knows I've been saying it under my breath a lot lately. ] 02:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:Here is what was said in the mesaage before that they left out, "Not really the logical conclusion one draws from reading any of what I wrote here, where I asked multiple times for you to explain your reasoning in your replies (instead your response was to repeat yourself without offering further explanation), but if that is what you want to take away from this that's fine by me. I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith." | |||
| *It's unfortunate that the situation got so out of control that FeloniousMonk set up a whole separate page on ] for Raspor's and another editor's various rants and rapid-fire diatribes. I support FM's way of dealing with the situation, which had gotten well beyond reason. That page alone (]) is already at 137kB of content (a couple kB of which is due to my own attempts at response/explanation/conciliation, along with similar conciliatory attempts by several other users). Raspor has settled down just a bit of late on ], and he's mostly respected the request to post comments on the page that was set up to accommodate the various shotgun-style objections and accusations (though I see he's moved his activities to some other pages in the meantime). I'm in favor of a temporary block, perhaps a week, if only to give it a rest for awhile, take a forced wiki-break, and hopefully have Raspor come back (if he wishes) with more of an orientation towards interactive discussion and contribution rather than just ranting. ... ] 04:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC) I now see Jayjig appears to already have blocked Raspor for a week. Seems to me if he's to be allowed to return after whatever the decision is among the admins, it should be with the caveat that a repetition of the pattern will result in a permanent block--just my opinion. ... ] 04:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:The message as a whole was replying to was a passive aggressive insult that didn't progress that conversation, hence the response as it was clearly not an example of engagement in good faith.] (]) 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Support this course of action - if this editor returns and makes one more personal attack, I support indef. The "fellatio" remark alone is beyond the pale, and one look at the talk page of his Rfc shows mutiple personal attacks and a total lack of interest in being even remotely civil. His goal seems disruption and trolling, with one or two productive edits buried amongst thousands of counter-productive hostile rants. One puppy's opinion. ]<sup>]</sup> 09:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Also, it looks like the participants in the dispute on the Team Seas article are acting as if this report is an extension of that dispute discussion. | |||
| :: After a quick skim of contributions - I've got to wonder why we spent so many manhours on such hopeless cases - editing wikipedia is an entitlement, it's not a ''right'', yet I've seen less handwringing about sending people to prison (mind you that might say more about the UK Justice system..) --] 11:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :This is a report of edit warring to revert disputed content prior to a consensus being reached (there was no consensus prior to the reversion and there still is no consensus, as admitted by PSW themselves in that very dispute and In their latest revert message, no idea why now in this report they are trying to claim that there is suddenly consensus for removal). | |||
| :This is not a report on the dispute itself, just to make that very clear since those involved are responding as if it is. ] (]) 18:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::You've still got this backward. You need to show a consensus to keep your content in the article, as everyone else has been telling you. ] is directly on point, and I'll quote it here: {{Tq|The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.}} ] (]) 18:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Thank you. I have tried to inform them of this many times and many ways. I do not know why they cannot wrap their head around the concept. Conceptually, it would be very problematic if we were required to retain every disputed content until consensus ruled it out. It wouldn't be workable. ] ] 19:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Nobody is arguing WP:ONUS here...not in the dispute and not here in this report. The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed. | |||
| :::I was directly advised by admin Pbsouthwood that the removal of disputed content BEFORE any consensus has been reached is not allowed (save for specific situations, none of which apply to the disputed content) as this bypasses the consensus building process. ] is the talk page where I was advised this. This is echoed with the wording in WP:STONEWALLING and ]. Here is the direct quote from the latter, "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages, {{under discussion inline}} is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." ] (]) 19:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{tq|The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.}} <--- No. This is your problem. What you are saying here is incorrect. Policies say the opposite of this. You are not going to get support at ANI. In fact, the longer you keep going with this ] insistence that community practice is actually the opposite of what policies plainly say it is, the more likely it is you're going to find yourself blocked for disruption. Pbsouthwood didn't tell you this either (what he wrote doesn't match what you've been doing), and your initial question did not properly represent the situation at hand. But we can invite him here to see if he actually supports what you're doing here: {{ping|Pbsouthwood}}, what say you? ] (]) 20:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::This entire comment serves absolutely zero purpose whatsoever. You're parroting what others have already said with no supporting evidence. Along with throwing in an oddly included threat that is completely nonsensical and wholly unwarranted. | |||
| :::::And while I could point out the myriad of ways your claim about what Pbsouthwood said was inaccurate, that would pretty much involve reposting his reply, which is a waste since anyone can already go to his talk page and read it themselves. | |||
| :::::So at this point, if you need that admin to come here and tell you what they already said themselves, more power to you. Would save us all a ton of time to get an authoritative answer on this, especially with another admin holding the opposite view point, in spite of the specific policy wording. ] (]) 23:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::], there does not need to be an established consensus for the removal of content. ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I'm not the one insisting otherwise...this report only exists because an ]. And as I've posted in my previous replies, the wording in the policies clearly support that. Makes me question how many have actually bothered to really read these policies... ] (]) 02:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::The other admin told you ''nothing'' about the removal of ], which is always appropriate. ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::# This report is not an extension of the dispute discussion for that article, if you want to involve yourself in that discussion, do so there, do not hijack this report. | |||
| :::::::::# The disputed content is plainly not WP:SYNTH as I explain on the talk page in great length, with nobody thus far having provided valid examples as to how it is. | |||
| :::::::::# If you are going to make the claim that any WP:SYNTH concerns warrant immediate reversion without consensus, please feel free to share the quote in the relevant policy that says this. I have not found any such wording and instead found that what is present matches up with what PBsouthwood informed me. | |||
| :::::::::] (]) 17:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::] ] ] 02:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::At this point I say that my advice was given without a specific context, and without prejudice. I maintain that it is more collegial and polite to discuss a removal of unsourced but ''plausible'' content ''before'' removing it, as it can often avoid disputes of this kind, but it is not forbidden to arbitrarily delete content that an editor ''plausibly considers inappropriate provided the relevant reason is given''. It is always the responsibility of the person advocating inclusion to provide a reference when challenged, regardless of the process of challenge. | |||
| :::::Some forms of synthesis are acceptable. If a conclusion is logically inevitable based on undisputed factual premises, or is a simple mathematical calculation, we routinely accept claims that may not be specifically stated in a source, but we may require the logic to be explained, as it may not be obvious to the reader. | |||
| :::::At the risk of being ], I also refer readers to <s>]</s> <u>(looks like that essay has been expunged, try ])</u>. · · · ] ]: 06:59, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I think many of us used to the mess editors adding unsourced content can create would strongly oppose leaving in unsourced content just because it's plausible. The standard should instead be at a minimum that you believe the claim made is most likely correct and sourceable not simply that it's plausible. Although ultimately such discussions are a little silly anyway. If editors would just add sources rather than leaving it for someone else because they're claiming it's unlikely to be challenged or whatever, there would be a need for others to decide whether to query or remove unsourced content. ] (]) 09:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I was suggesting tagging with citation needed while you wait a reasonable time for a response, but as we know some of us do not have the patience and just revert. It in not unheard of to know something, but not have a source handy at the time. What is obvious to one may be totally obscure to others. This is acceptable within policy and guidelines. You could start a RfC to have the guidelines changed, but I suspect it would not get through as being a bit bitey. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 12:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::Yes, what you say is true, that's absolutely an acceptable approach. But that's not really the problem at hand here. The bigger issue is that Sxbbetyy appears to be believe that the alternative approach - reverting per STATUSQUO or NOCONSENSUS - is somehow misconduct, and that's simply not true. They're not arguing about if your approach is valid, they're arguing that its ''compulsory'', and they're attempting to report a user for not following your possible approach, which is completely meritless. ] ] 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Please do not put words in my mouth. The only reason this report exists is because Peter Southwood advised that this was how I should proceed if the editor participating in this no-consensus reverting continued to do so and was unreceptive to further discussion. (Both are true by admission of PSW themselves). ] (]) 18:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Yes, I've seen , but you presented the situation to them entirely in hypotheticals that lacks crucial context. You frame PSW as unwilling to engage in discussion but omit the fact that You accuse PSW of edit warring to keep their information in the article, but omit the fact that . I would think the near-unanimous rejection of this ANI report would indicate that this was not, in fact, a good thing to report. Best case scenario, this is archived with no action, but I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a ]. ] ] 18:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::I don't know why you are attempting to present the entire discussion on that talk page as some sort of proof that PSW was willing to engage in further discussion to halt the behavior this report is about. At no point whatsoever did PSW ever indicate anything like that; if they did this report wouldn't exist as the discussions on your talk page or Peter Southwood's page would have never needed to happen. Not to mention if you take the time to actually read the discussion, you see that most of it is on the specifics of the validity of the WP:SYNTH claim made by PSW, eventually culminating in PSW actually asserting that they will not stop change their position on this and then outright refusing to engage any further. | |||
| :::::::::::And now you accuse me of edit warring by citing the entire recent edit history of the page...this isn't fooling anyone who actually bothers to read any of the revert messages and examine the timeline of when they occurred (talk about omitting "crucial context"). | |||
| :::::::::::Beyond just slandering my character, I don't really see what these kind of spurious claims accomplish. It wastes everyone's time, makes yourself look biased and hostile, and adds nothing to the conversation. Keep things civil please, I really shouldn't have to tell you of all people that basic expectation. ] (]) 02:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::::Wait...are you seriously trying to suggest that, even though you were the only one who reverted him every single time, he was edit warring and you weren't? ] ] 02:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::::If you are going to continue to twist words and make false claims immediately after being asked to keep things civil, maybe it would be best for all involved if you just moved on from this conversation. Sad that even has to be stated at this point, it should be a given. ] (]) 17:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::::::Yet another IDHT response where you try to baselessly chastize me rather than address anything anyone is saying to you. ] ] 18:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::::::What a choice to post this exact type reply to my last message... not to mention the sheer absurdity of it. To claim that I've never addressed anyone's points in my replies is so easily and visibly wrong (literally this entire topic is full of my detailed replies to people's concerns, including this very reply) that it's almost insulting to the rest of the people participating in this or to anyone who even chooses to read that message. It's as if you think nobody can see the rest of this discussion (or even the comments directly above it). ] (]) 11:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Thank you for taking the time to respond and my apology for any inconvenience it may have caused. Ive tried to keep it as civil as possible, but there seems to be a very hostile air in this discussion by those with the dissenting opinion. As for how this situation is to be resolved, would it be appropriate to restore the currently disputed content with the appropriate tags (as it is sourced and was the statusquo on the page at the time of reversion)? Or is there something further that must be done here? I'm generally unfamiliar with how ANIs actually function. ] (]) 17:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Have you considered starting an ]? The fact is that you made a ] addition to the article; someone else objected to it, which means you now ought to seek consensus ''for your addition''. As numerous people have told you, none of the relevant policies and guidelines (], ], ], etc) would allow you to make a recent addition the "default" the way you want, but more generally - the problem is that you're trying to dig through policy for something that will make your preferred version the default, allowing you to have it in the article without having to demonstrate consensus for it even in the face of challenges. Even if the policies and guidelines I listed ''were'' on your side this would still be a bad way to approach it. You have a conflict, your goal should be to resolve it by making consensus as clear as possible - figuring out what the crux of the dispute is and then, if you can't reach a compromise, holding an RFC to see where consensus lies. Also, I have to point out that just by a quick nose count of people who have weighed in on talk, I'm seeing a dispute that is now three-to-one against you. That ''is'' a consensus - not a massive one, maybe an RFC will pull in a bunch of people that say something else, but it doesn't make sense for you to keep demanding a consensus to remove something you added when there actually ''is'' such a consensus on talk. You've disagreed with their arguments but they're not obliged to ] you; ultimately if you think your arguments are so strong and theirs are so weak, the only real option for you at this point is to start an RFC and hope that you can demonstrate that there. --] (]) 04:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::As mentioned earlier in the discussion, this report is not an extension of the dispute on that article, nor is that what this report is about. Also, a RFC was already started for the topic about a week or so ago by PSW, but that occurred after he reverted the status quo, disputed content with discussion (repeatedly). As for the rest of your comment, Peter Southwood, an admin, has addressed what is the actual expectation. ] (]) 18:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::What? I never started an RfC. — ] (]; ]) 19:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I just checked and on 12/9/24 at ] you said the following, "Thanks – just wanted to mention I requested comments from ] and ] about 2 weeks ago." | |||
| ::::Did that not actually happen? ] (]) 02:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::] is a specific process. Asking questions on a couple of Wikiprojects is not an RFC. ] (]) 02:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::That's fundamentally not what an RFC is. This is getting ridiculous... ] ] 03:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::It's almost like this is the very first time I've ever been involved in this kind of issue on Misplaced Pages before...seriously these kind of replies come off as rude and don't actually say anything meaningful or helpful. Ever since our conversation on your talk page you have made next to no real effort to engage in good faith and I find that highly disappointing to be coming from an admin. And my apology if I offended you at all at some point or if you have just "lost your patience" with me, but I don't see how that gives you the green flag to suddenly disregard ]. I certainly haven't, in spite of being on the receiving end of this. ] (]) 17:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I haven't said anything uncivil, I just keep calling you out when you say something incorrect. ] ] 18:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::], is a powerful force, I find it difficult to resist myself. ] (]) 18:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ===Request for closure=== | |||
| For the record, I believe that some of the comments in this section are incorrect and/or misleading. I question the claim that "there was a huge turn out from both sides of the debate"; it seems that most if not all of the people objecting to him are on one side of the debate (and not his side, of course!). I'm not sure what the claim that "he simply shugged (sic) off his last block" means; he was new, didn't know about the three-reverts rule, but now does and hasn't reoffended on that. And although I agree he has been aggressive and abusive, it was largely in response to others insulting him or being abusive to him. ] 13:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Despite its large size, the consensus here is quite clear. There's no misconduct here, just standard following of procedures of ] and ], which is perfectly acceptable. Not a single person has suggested taking any action towards PerfectSoundWhatver. Outside of a a potential IDHT BOOMERANG, there's nothing left to be done here. Can someone close this? ] ] 14:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I second that. If there has been any edit-warring by any party that should be dealt with in the normal way. {{u|PerfectSoundWhatever}} has certainly done nothing wrong, and the OP will get blocked if they don't start listening to people pretty quickly. ] (]) 14:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Exactly. And even that's probably unlikely, as most of the "edit warring" was singular reverts with days or weeks in between. It's far from a 3RR situation at least. ] ] 15:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :{{non-admin comment}} I don't think this conversation is going anywhere fast, other than seemingly coming to the conclusion that @] has done nothing wrong, which seems to be the opposite of what this ANI post was about. There's no edit warring here, and even if there was, it wouldn't be dealt with at this venue. Shut it down! ] (]) 16:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :In what way whatsoever is this editor's decision to revert the disputed content during the discussion "standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO"? The literal first words that appear at that link are in bold and say, "'''Avoid reverting during discussion'''", followed by a detailed explanation of the actual proper procedure. And to make it very clear what it says, here is the literal first paragraph verbatim: "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the '']'' '''during a dispute discussion'''. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the ] are appropriate. For other pages, <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code> is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." ] (]) 02:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::In what way is ''that'' your read of the consensus in the discussion above? ] ] 02:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::In what world do you logically come to that conclusion from a message that consist of almost entirely the word for word quote of the procedures described in WP:STATUSQUO, that directly counters the claim you just made? Are you saying it is "against consensus" simply because it presents a viewpoint you don't like and don't want to address? I don't see another reason why you would again twist my words, to the point of lunacy. And this is, once again, despite the fact that all of what has been said is literally within view. | |||
| :::Also, regarding the consensus. Out of everyone that has actually joined the discussion and all the messages sent (~90% of which are either from myself or you Serge), there have been only three people who have actually said anything in support of your interpretation of this. The rest either did not discuss the topic, did not express an opinion, or were Peter Southwood who supported the interpretation of WP:STATUSQUO as stated on its page. Seems like you're just trying to rush a end to the conversation to get the conclusion you want. ] (]) 15:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I'm saying there has been no consensus for anything you're arguing here. Not a single person has supported action against PSW. ] ] 15:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::The status quo ante bellum that shouldn't be reverted from is the version ''without the new content''. ] (]) 15:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Mgtow definition == | |||
| :25 to 3 against, and you're questioning the claim that there was a huge turn out from both sides of the debate? And you're simply mistaken that most of the people objecting to him are not on his side of the topic, off the top of my head AvB and Filll are. Also, by your own reasoning here we should note that you happen to share his view on the topic as well, so I'm not sure where you think that line of argument will get you. ] 18:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=Editor was pointed to the talk page and then stopped editing. It looks like this was a case of ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| There are blatant lies in the wiki definition of "mgtow". | |||
| The goal is accuracy, not "man bashing". ] (]) 14:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :@], you should discuss this at ]. This noticeboard is for conduct issues, not content issues. ] ] 14:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Nothing wrong with the definition of MGTOW. Maximum Gross Takeoff Weight is an internationally accepted and used term used by every airplane and airline in the world. ] ] 16:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::The cintent is incorrect. Mvto is NOT "misogynistic". There is no "hate" towards women, only avoidance. ] (]) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :@], you were directed to the talkpage, which includes an FAQ on the term you keep trying to remove, along with extensive discussion. You should start there before just removing sourced content that you don't like. We'll leave aside the absence of required notifications to Black Kite and myself who have warned you for your conduct. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 17:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Where do I find the talk page? ] (]) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::@], I linked it for you in my comment above. ] ] 20:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Camarogue100's removal of material unfavorable to the subject with an edit summary of indicates to me that they are here to play games, not ]. Any more disruption should result in an immediate block IMO. —] (]) 20:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Although I'm a Christian and believe that the God of the Bible has created the universe, I'm not an ID proponent by any stretch of the imagination. Or any other type of ] in the extreme US sense for that matter. I fully accept scientific findings supported by a robust body of evidence, which includes ]. At any rate, the RfC has been sufficiently advertised so the virtually unanimous agreement with FM's assessment is ''highly'' significant. ] ÷ ] 21:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Creating the need to make 400,000 unnecessary edits == | |||
| :It's unfortunate that raspor seems to have had so much difficulty in reading and following policy, specifically ] which he was warned of twice (in the first instance not in the recommended format) and allowed to get to 8 reversions before being blocked, then treated it as an unfair personal attack that he'd not been allowed to argue against. As shows he's still having difficulty in understanding what behaviour is expected of him: you've had some success in discussing some things with him, Philip, and it would be good if you could persuade him that he should fully comply with the rules so that an ending of the block is not immediately followed by a repetition of disruptive behaviour. ... ], ] 15:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Can we please dp something about editors who make unnecessary changes to widely-used modules, and then need to change 400,000 talk pages to get the same result we had before the change? Thanks to change from last week, which removed the parameter "living" from the bannershell, we now have more than 400,000 pages in ]. After the "cleanup" by ] (and perhaps others), we will have the exact same result as we had last week, no new functionality, no new categories, no improvement at all, but a lot of flooded watchlists. | |||
| ::For the record I am in full support of this ban. Based on how he has responded poorly to even the numerous calm and friendly attempts to guide him I suspect he'll be back to his disruptive ways as soon as the ban is lifted. With that in mind I think he has no business editing any ID or ID related articles until he demonstrates an ability to respect other editors, Wiki policies. He could do that by limiting his edits to non-controversial subjects. ] 01:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I tried to get him to stop at ], to no avail. This isn't the first time, as you can see from that discussion. ] (]) 14:57, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Looking at Raspor's edits to his talk since he's been blocked, I see he's not only continued the personal attacks/name calling, but escalated and has made his talk page a locus of disruption drawing responses from a number of editors. Considering that even while in the pokey he's continued the very sort of disruption that landed him there in the first place, misusing the one priveledge he retained while blocked to turn his talk page into a source of friction, I think Raspor is a hopeless case and therefore a permanent block is the only thing that will put an end to the disruption. And sooner rather than later to spare the community any additional time and goodwill being wasted. ] 18:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :If you want to discuss {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, you should do so at ]. | |||
| :As for the size of the category, I have no plans to empty it, and was only going to update a few hundred more categories and templates. <b>~</b> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">] (] ⋅])</span> 15:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::You made nearly 2000 of such edits in the last few hours, and when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries. I have no way to know how many more you planned now or in future runs. Starting a discussion at the module would hardly stop you. ] (]) 15:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::"{{tq|when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries}}": incorrect. Since you wrongly thought I was making cosmetic edits, i.e. "{{tq|no change in output or categories}}", the category was to inform you that they are not cosmetic. | |||
| :::Regarding a BRFA for the bulk of the category, that's looking more likely since the category appears to be neglected. <b>~</b> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">] (] ⋅])</span> 15:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Unnecessary removing a synonym and then making thousands of edits to remove the hidden cat created by that unnecessary change is not really any better than making cosmetic edits, the end result is that nothing has changed for the affected pages at all. ] (]) 15:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Not unnecessary. The Lua code is very complex and removing the need the support various settings makes the code both easier to read and maintain. As always, editors that don't want to see these edits can hide these by hiding the tag "talk banner shell conversion". ] (]) 12:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::It doesn´t look as if the specific code to have these synonyms was very complicated though, the argument that in some cases two synonyms were used on one page with conflicting values was more convincing. And the edits I complained about did ''not'' have that tag, so no, even if people knew about hiding that tag, it wouldn't have helped here at all. ] (]) 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :This was discussed in detail on ]. Ideally these edits would be done by an approved bot so they do not appear on people's watchlists. The main benefit is to merge the {{para|blp}} and {{para|living}} parameters. When both are in use, we find they often get conflicting values because one gets updated and the other does not. — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 17:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Isn't it more logical to first have a bot cleanup the unwanted parameter, then remove it from the template, and only then start populating the cat with the somehow remaining or since added instances? In any case, this is a typical bot task and shouldn't be done with massive AWB runs. ] (]) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yes, probably. But we have this mechanism already set up and I assumed {{ul|Cewbot}} would deal with these as part of its normal activities. Happy to look at other options - maybe discuss on template talk? — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 18:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I don't know what this is about, but if the OP is correct, it is totally absurd to edit 400,000 talk pages for a tweak. Discussing at a template talk page monitored by those focused on the template would simply hide the issue. ] (]) 03:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Edits like these should ''always'' be bots, so they can be filtered from watchlists. There are numerous other editors who have recently engaged in the mass additional of categories to articles which I had to ask them to stop as my watchlist was flooded. ]] 13:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Is it just me or are talk pages like ] just perpetual ] issues where a very small number of editors (frequently 5 or less) make major changes that affect thousands of articles, all without involving the broader community through, at minimum, places like ]? ]]<sup>]</sup> 04:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Looks like another editor is encouraging him to initiate a freep fest (ala ]) as a means of retribution for his "treatment" here . How very odd. ] 18:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *{{ping|Fram|Tom.Reding|Kanashimi|Primefac}} I got AWB working again. If cewbot would take time for making the changes, and if this needs attention soon, then should I file a request for that particular bot task? —usernamekiran ] 06:20, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:The robot is in operation... ] (]) 09:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::yay! —usernamekiran ] 16:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Meanwhile, the category has grown to over 800,000 pages. Perhaps next time an RfC to determine whether creating such a large cleanup task is warranted, would be better? ] (]) 16:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Yes, I've just cautioned both against that at Raspor's talk page. Amazingly bad advice from ]. ] 18:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| ::Not the first time Geo. has given improper advice - . ]|] 18:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::The advice is even more worrying given the fact that Geo.plrd is active in advocacy, making him an important source of advice for confused or misconstrued editors. --] 19:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I'm worried about that as well. If there's any oversight going on at ], this certainly the sort of behavior they need to be looking into. It should be brought up there I suppose. ] 19:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Uggggh. I spent far too much time reading up on this case. I've given Raspor a final warning about disruption, and after one more infraction I'll protect the page until the block expires. There's not much point to a block if the person continues the very behavior he or she was blocked for in the first place. -- ] 19:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :From the records on Raspor's talk page the observer may note that I've done my best to try to get him to understand the purpose of Misplaced Pages fruitlessly. I cannot help but think that either he simply cannot understand it or refuses to bother with it, and as I said some time earlier, it's like trying to bail water from a boat using a dixie cup. If I weren't so incorrigibly hardheaded, I think I would have given up trying to help him a while ago. --] 19:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::HassourZain, you have demonstrated an amazing patience with raspor and your good faith efforts to be helpful have been noted by me. ] 19:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] is making wholesale reverts of my edits in contravention to guidelines. ] (]) 19:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::HassourZain's efforts are 1st class through and through. It's people like him that make up for the shenanigans of the others and keeps contributing here worthwhile. ] 19:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :You're removing demographic categories and templates by blanking them out; irreligion still deals with religion no matter your argument. That's definitely not compliant with ] and clearly vandalism. There's no action to take here except that you need to stop removing these categories and templates. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 19:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Thanks for the kind words, guys. :) --] 19:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::And you are now '''required''' to cite how your edits meet ]; spamming it in edit summaries is not discussion. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 19:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::My thanks too for your admirable and patient words. One problem that came up earlyish was that when I requested raspor to stop trolling, he took this as a personal attack and repeatedly complained about it. The ] article definition is dependant on motive, which of course is impossible to judge, and so is useless for defining behaviour which is what's important. The ] article focusses on article edits rather than talk page disruption. Should these guidelines be changed or clarified? .. ], ] 22:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::While doing routine vandal patrol, I came across what seemed to be a hasty and massive removal of content, being done in a very directed and personal manner. | |||
| ::::After looking at the persistent removal, and communicating, I restored the well-drawn categories. | |||
| ::::Hopefully, this is easily resolved. | |||
| :::] (]) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::43*, do not continue to revert these category removals without discussing them first. - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::THere is nothing to discuss. The guidelines are clear. What needs to be done is editors need to be familiar with the cat guidelines. We don't discuss whether the sky is blue do we? ] (]) 02:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::THey are not well drawn, it was not hasty, it was not massive, and it was not "personal". It was directed because they all had the same issue. ] (]) 02:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Editors should not blindly revert. They should be '''required''' to understand the guideleines. ] (]) 02:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I gave up editing because there were too many problems that the wiki communtity is not sorting out. One of them is treating anon editors as second class wikicitizens. | |||
| ::::"''...when I requested raspor to stop trolling, he took this as a personal attack and repeatedly complained about it.''" That's typical 'victim bully' behavior. Dean Dad, in writing about ''The College Administrator's Survival Guide'', by C.K. Gunsalus (Harvard U Press, 2006), notes that Gunsalus distinguishes between traditional, assertive bullies, who throw their weight around with bluster and force, and 'victim bullies,' who use claims of having been wronged to gain leverage over others. He goes on to write "that unlike simple passive-aggression, victim bullies use accusations as weapons, and ramp up the accusations over time. Unlike a normal person, who would slink away in shame as the initial accusations are discredited, a victim bully lacks either guilt or shame, honestly believing that s/he has been so egregiously wronged in some cosmic way that anything s/he does or says is justified in the larger scheme of things. So when the initial accusations are dismissed, the victim bully’s first move is a sort of double-or-nothing, raising the absurdity and the stakes even more. Victim bullies thrive in the no-man's-land created by the deadly combination of slow and cumbersome processes, and failure of administerial nerve. I've had some experience with these, and I can say without reservation that they are, by far, my least favorite editors to wrangle. It's not just that they're unpleasant and batshit crazy; they're self-righteously unpleasant and batshit crazy. They're implausibly persistent. Gunsalus makes the correct point that the key to defeating victim bullies is the classic administrative pincer movement of process-and-time. Easier said than done, but still right." ] 17:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Another problem is "this is how it is so we are going to leave it like this for years and years" and this is at the expense of the quality of WP. | |||
| :::::Thanks for that information, FM. On his talk page Raspor coninues to demonstrate a profound lack of understanding of fundamental Misplaced Pages editing policies as well as being unfamiliar with intelligent design in general (as evidenced ). This is something he has shown since day one. I suspect he has either not yet studied any of our policies or has decided they are of no use to him. This makes working with him impossible. If he'd spend some time actually learning our policies his disruptions would go down by 99% or so. With this is mind, what happens after his block is lifted? I mean from an administrative standpoint, I pretty much know what to expect from him but I'm curious if/when he starts acting out again, will a new Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents report need to be submitted or will we utilize this existing one? And will there be an administrator assigned to monitor his behaviour? ] 18:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I can't remember the specific category guideline for the edits I did but is the undoing editors need to look it up. Categorisation is something that a lot of editor do not understand. Go and put a notice on WikkiProoject Categorisation and you will fing that there is support for my edits. | |||
| ::::::Again, judging by his comments on his talk page my attempt to answer his question(s) seems to have sent him into a mental tail-spin. He seems to be looking for the word "theory" now in every article and inisting we change the other articles to read like the ID one. How can we work with such a person when he begins posting on the article talk page again and not just on his own personal talk page? ] 18:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| WP could be sooo much better. ] (]) 02:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::To answer the "what next" question - it all depends on how Raspor acts after the block runs out. If he decides to act within accepted norms, then he will probably be given a second chance. If he continues to act as he has been, then I'm sure someone will re-block him. ] 19:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm sorry, but "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone" is an indication you should be trying to do better instead of telling us we should do the same. If you're not willing to actually explain why guidelines vindicate your changes, then being right sometimes isn't enough if you want to make things better. Communication is the process, not something ancillary to it. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 02:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I admit only spot checking his contribs, but this seems like a case where someone, a subject expert, feels his areas of expertise are being poorly represented by the articles and subject novices who are "equal" with him in the WP system. The user is thus getting frustrated and some apparent mob rule against him by other editors is been making matters worse. ] 21:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::GO and read the guidelines. It does not need discussion. ] (]) 02:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Discussion is required when other editors ask you questions in good faith in order to resolve present disputes and prevent future ones. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Bear in mind this is WP and not social media. ] (]) 02:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone". ] (]) 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::No. You brought this here. The ] is on ''you'' to explain how the guidelines justify your edits, not to say "go look it up". Also {{tqq|How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone"}} - because that's exactly what you said. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::It's not unreasonable in many cases to link to a very specific passage of a guideline and expect an editor to understand its meaning as regards a pertinent dispute, but you can't just fail to clearly articulate your argument while also insisting it's vindicated somewhere within the full text of a guideline. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 02:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Content dispute. Bold edits were reverted; next step is discussion, probably at ]. If there is dispute over interpretation of the guideline you can consider leaving a pointer at ]. If there are any categories that shouldn't be used at all that can be discussed at ]. ] (]) 03:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::The content dispute could have been discussed on any of the talk pages. Yet it was brought here first. ] (]) 06:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::When a content dispute involves several pages it is often <small>though not always</small> best to centralize discussion. Misunderstanding ANIs purpose and bringing content disputes here is a common and understandable error; best just to point people at appropriate ] when that happens. ] (]) 06:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Not overly impressed by 43's comments above. But do wish to note that their ] of ] from at least one BLP appears to have been correct. The subsequent reversion of that removal is misfortune. ] <sup>]</sup> 08:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Not sure who's who in your analogy. However, raspor has shown no expertise, rather an uncanny ability to play on people's desire to explain things, then pick on points with a remarkable resemblance to standard creationist arguments and interpret or ignore the answers to emerge triumphantly having proved his point. He did it with ], and even confined to his user page, . .. ], ] 21:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Unblock request of Rereiw82wi2j == | |||
| ::I tried to make the original post more clear. ] 21:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=Blocked, blocked, they're all blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| The user {{u|Rereiw82wi2j}} was blocked for blanking talk page discussions. They were removing discussions they participated in with an now-vanished account, for the purpose of removing their username from the talk page(which isn't removed via a vanishing). I believe that per ] their vanishing needs to be reversed, am I correct? Do they need to be asked to resume using that account?(if they can) ] (]) 20:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :It seems to need reverting because with their previous account, they only edited one article/talk page and when asked what articles they wanted to edit with their new account, they just mention this same article. That violates the entire principle of a clean start account. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Could we revoke TPA per ? ~ ] (]) 14:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I have revoked their talk page access and declined the unblock request. ] (]) 14:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::User has created another account {{u|Human82}}. ] (]) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Also now blocked. ]] 16:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::There's also ] now. ] (]) 16:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Blocked by PhilKnight. ]] 16:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2 == | |||
| :::If you read through ] to the end of the talk page, you'll see that raspor keeps any expertise well concealed. .. ], ] 22:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *{{userlinks|ZanderAlbatraz1145}} | |||
| This user has engaged in a lengthy display of disruption. Namely through incessant incivility I have noticed . | |||
| Instances such as , , on , etc. Users such as {{Ping|Waxworker}} and {{Ping|Jon698}} can speak to their experiences, I'll outline mine. | |||
| ::::CyberAnth, sorry, I may be dense because I am still not following you. Who is the subject expert you mentioned and what subject is their expertise? Thanks. ] 22:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| On December 10, I noticed on the article ] page several additions were made that didn't adhere to the article's purpose. Zander restored these with an introductory summary rife with . For the most part there was an attempt to discuss the issue we had, but ultimately did not see eye to eye. I asserted I'd be escalating the issue to garner more substantive dialogue around it, Zander's response includes a needless . I made some attempts at engaging the topic at the article's talk page, in addition to WikiProject Film, it was over a week that saw no input. I would go on to state that (at the time) in two days, I would restore the page to it's status quo. I would do so, . Zander , and after another terse interaction, I moved to nominate the article for deletion, finding with the conflicting views of what Unrealized meant, it was too open ended and led to these lists being essentially trivia. Since then, Zander has elected to take an antagonistic approach towards me, making swipes they openly admit , and now that I am putting said comments , Zander is now doing the editing equivalent of mockingly repeating me, with edits such as and . | |||
| :::::From the link you gave and the link he gave therein referencing his talk page on the matter, the user obviously appears pretty knowledgeable about ID (or whatever naming variants it goes by). He seems to feel his expertise area is being very poorly represented in articles. He appears to have gotten very frustrated and, from it, done some communication games; but I think this is more a reaction to what really does appear to me as some "mob rule" against him and his views. Keep in mind that my analysis here is coming from someone who is looking in from the outside. You might want to give him an olive branch and really listen to his concerns and see how they can be incorporated into the article some more. In short, appease him by addressing his concerns some more. No one will get their fill plate. That means everyone. ] 02:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This editor displays no interest in conducting themselves cordially or cooperatively on this website. ] 23:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Thank you for clarifying. I am perplexed as I have been studying ] for several years now, I routinely read both sides of the debate even today. I have also read a tremendous amout of posts and responses from raspor since he stumbled upon the intelligent design article and I have yet to read a single item written by him that suggests he has even a conversational understanding of ]. and certainly not a subject expert on intelligent design. But based on what you have expressed I am obviously overlooking very important information and evidence that should be weighed in this Administrators' noticeboard/Incident. Would you mind helping out by showing a few diffs/examples where raspor has demonstrated a subject expertise in ]? Thank will help me and I think others here quite a bit. Thanks again. <insert> also, some examples where he simply came accross as "obviously knowledgable" would help too. ] 06:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I've given them a warning for canvassing: - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| <reduce indent> Intriguing. I appreciate that CyberAnth has only been able to spot check raspor's contributions before commenting, and the sympathy is entirely understandable. However the impression that raspor was immediately set upon by a mob is not supported by looking at his start on the ID article. His first contribution there on 22 December was unfortunate, as he deleted the previous post and was reverted. with the comment ''(please do not remove or edit others' posts)'', then he did the same again on the talk page and on the page of the editor who'd reverted the first comment. This could of course be a newbie's error, but oddly enough it's a mistake raspor did not make almost a month earlier when first editing a talk page. Anyway, that mistake was sorted out and discussion resumed at ]. If you read down you'll find editors responding to raspor's opinions by asking him to "please read" archives at links they provided, "If you have some new points which have not been hashed out already, please feel free to bring them up" and to "Please provide a reliable source" for his assertions. He did not do the latter, despite having learnt the hard way about the need to cite sources on his first article by the 28th of November. His responses lack such niceties of politeness, and introduce allegations of bias and inaccuracy without any supporting citations. If that's being set upon by a mob, it was a remarkably polite and patient mob. .. ], ] 10:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::And they appear to be continuing editing while ignoring here. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == SPA ] back at it on ] == | |||
| CyberAnth: you said ''the user obviously appears pretty knowledgeable about ID''. Really? I have not seen any evidence that Raspor knows much about ID at all. On the contrary, s/he seems to be sadly unaware of much of the issues surrounding ID. In fact, Raspor recently said that s/he was ''starting to read'' the ], which is one of the fundamental documents related to ID. While Raspor is very aggressive in his/her assertions, s/he has not displayed much knowledge of either ID or science. ] 16:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Hi, all, I'd like some assistance with the SPA ], who's been POV pushing on the ] article since . A quick view of their extremely short edit history shows that their sole focus is on pushing a vaccine-denialist POV on that and similar COVID-related topics. Started out on the talk page and BLPN, but now they've graduated to edit-warring on the article itself; they were active in June, made a single related edit in October, but now they appear to be . They've already , and have received an warning--to which they were . Would appreciate a more permanent resolution, either a COVID-19 topic ban or just an indef considering their SPA status, so they don't just go back into hibernation and then turn up again like a bad penny. (And yeah, given this context, I don't love the implications of the username "Tikitorch2", either.) Thanks, ] ]] 05:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :CyberAnth is mistaken, Raspor is hardly a subject matter expert. As seen at ] he is regarded as not knowledgable on the topic of ID by every credible long time contributor to that article. The fact is the greatest cause of Raspor's problems here, other than his refusal to comprehend and follow our policies, is his incomplete knowledge of the subject matter. He is apparently either aware of only one side's opinion, or he is intentionally promoting only that side's view, neither of which makes for good editing. ] 17:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :]? ] (]) 06:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I just provided an evidenced summary that suggests raspor is as wholly unfamiliar with the subject matter as he is of fundamental Wiki editing policies that I think is worth considering. ] 18:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{duck}}. I'm sending this ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 11:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::, so might just be generic disruption. - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :What are you implying with regard to my username? My edit history has been limited to trying to correct two red flags that stood out so much that I followed the citations when I was searching these scientists who were in the news for censorship. It has been enlightening learning how wikipedia selectively chooses secondary sources but discourages the use of primary sources to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible. | |||
| :For my two attempted contributions to Misplaced Pages, the two red flags were pretty dramatic to prompt me to check out the citations--Sunetra Gupta's article implied more than 1 in 1000 people in England died from Covid in spring 2020 in an effort to discredit her, which was trivially easy to google as untrue. I corrected that without really changing the overall narrative. The article for Martin Kulldorff...I would probably not have spent time looking at the sources or realized how unscientific Kulldorff's critics were had there not been such superfluous "Wikivoice" editorializing and synthesizing suggesting Kulldorff lied in an essay to the public. ] (]) 06:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::] are not to be used for anything but simple facts about a subject. They absolutely are not to be used {{tqq|to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible}} because that is ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Not sure why you felt the need to repeat what I said. Maybe I am the sock puppeteer! ] (]) 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::What I am implying is that such a username in the context of an account pushing COVID-denialist rhetoric that flies in the face of the sources and Misplaced Pages policy is . Anyway, this editor continues to be a drain of editor time and attention. ] ]] 14:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Ah an absurd, convoluted, and contrived personal attack. Assuming anyone but you knew tiki torches were present at a political event where someone was killed, why would I choose my username based on that? Tikitorches provide light, warmth, and keep the mosquitos away. I guess its not surprising an editor named writ keeper attacks the editor rather than effectively debating the subject of the edit. ] (]) 03:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Even if it was a personal attack, making one ''back'' isn't going to fly here. Knock it off. - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::], your edits are being examined at ANI. This is not a pleasant experience, I'll admit. So, it's best for you not to dig yourself into a hole. I know the instinct is to defend yourself but it doesn't help your situation to come out swinging. It's probably to your benefit to address any concerns that have been raised and say no more than that. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64 == | |||
| :::Raspor's understanding of the subject matter has been made irrelevant by his attitude and actions. Throw him out. But let him return when he is ready to abide by Misplaced Pages's policies, especially ]. ] ÷ ] 01:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{Atop|Blocked for one month.--] (]) 14:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| {{userlinks|2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64}} - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued after block expired. /64 has previously been blocked on December 8th for a week due to "Persistent unsourced genre changes", and 2 weeks on September 7th due to addition of unsourced content. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: {{diff|The Iron Giant|prev|1264168891|1}}, {{diff|Joker (2019 film)|prev|1264169891|2}}, {{diff|Candyman (2021 film)|prev|1264170248|3}}, {{diff|Spirited (film)|prev|1264235847|4}}, {{diff|Sausage Party: Foodtopia|prev|1264237619|5}}. ] (]) 10:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{Abot}} | |||
| == Disruptive editing ] == | |||
| ===Raspor's agenda=== | |||
| {{atop | |||
| Raspor's edit makes it crystal clear that his agenda in editing Misplaced Pages is not to help preserve NPOV when editing the Intelligent Design article, but to show the embittered and hateful atheists that intelligent design simply ''is''. I issued a warning that characterizing the other side of the debate as atheists (and bitter ones at that) violates ], ], and possibly even ]. I have zero experience with RFCs, but if someone wants to tell me where to put this diff (or to copy it over for me), he or she is free to do so. -- ] 14:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| | result = I've protected the page for 24 hours. @] and @] are both warned against edit warring, including during the course of this discussion. RR, HR, and .82 should follow ] processes. Further disruptive editing or edit warring after page protection expires will result in blocks. ] (]/]) 21:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| ] has been trying for about a month now to put across his own opinion about the party' infobox. An opinion which he cannot back up with any source whatsoever. Although it has been pointed out to him by both the user ] and me, continues the disruptive editing. Ιt is worth noting that although other users made the same "mistake", when the lack of sources to support the addition was pointed out to them, they accepted it and did not continue to try to pass on their own opinion. | |||
| :I think he's already clearly demonstrated that he's more interested in causing disruption than contributing in good faith, as this comment indicates: His 1 week block for disruption ends tomorrow, and since he's exhausted the community's patience by continuing the disruption while blocked, by all indications his wish may be granted. ] 01:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC | |||
| ::Looking at more recent edits , raspor appears to be an outraged victim of what s/he perceives as unfair treatment. While his or her behaviour continues to match the description in ], I've not seen any evidence that this is deliberate trolling. However this all shows that raspor has to be treated very correctly. Further disruption on various talk pages is likely unless raspor has learnt to keep to the purpose of talk pages and to stop aggressively demanding answers to apparently off-topic questions. .. ], ] 09:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Movement_for_Democracy_(Greece)#5/300 | |||
| :::His block expired today. Will he get an official notice to that affect so that he knows? The other day he had asked how much longer it was going to be so I am assuming he does not know. I think an admin or other neutral party should inform him. ] 16:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Movement_for_Democracy | |||
| == I've username blocked WikiWarrior1 == | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Disruptive_editing....again | |||
| * '' <span class="plainlinks">] (]{{·}} ]{{·}} <font color="002bb8"></font>{{·}} ]{{·}} <font color="002bb8"></font>)</span>'' | |||
| This user had e-mailed me asking for some help regarding their username block, but I'm about to go offline. I've probably compounded the ] of having his first edit reverted as "" so if someone can please hold this person's hand a little bit, and feel free to slap me around if I've handled it poorly. - <font color="black">]</font> 06:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :He seems to know the reason for his block and will hopefully re-register. --]] 09:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::What's wrong with the username? Warrior is hardly that bad; it's not like it says WikiJihad or WikiKillPeople. No worse than ]. ]<sup>]|]</sup> 16:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I think it's a borderline case. It was probably just intended as "I'm a tough guy" but it sounds a bit like "I engage in edit wars". —]<sup>] ]</sup> 19:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I agree with ] and ] on this one. User names shouldn't sound like any kind of Misplaced Pages trouble-maker. Since edit wars occur here all the time, I think '''WikiWarrior''' is a problematic name. ] 01:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I agree with Patstuart. This is not a bad username and he shouldn't be forced to change it. "Warrior" isn't always a bad thing; not even most of the time. ···]<sup>] · <small>] <font color="darkblue">to</font> ]]</small></sup> 21:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I'd say it's a borderline case. I'd gently encourage the user to change the name as a show of good faith. Regards, ] 21:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Why? With respect, if an admin came to you and asked you to change your username because it's an anagram for 'Venal Being', how would you feel? If there's nothing wrong with the username, they shouldn't be asked to change it. Cases like this is why I've opened a line of discussion on the subject of overenthusiastic username blocking on Village Pump (policy). - ]</small> (]) 21:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I'd assume that such an admin had lost their mind. Regards, ] 22:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Then we are agreed. - ]</small> (]) 22:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::No, I don't think we are. There are usernames that are clearly acceptable, usernames that are clearly unacceptable, and usernames that are borderline. I find WikiWarrior1 borderline. Not to the point that I would initiate action against the name, but to the point that I feel a voluntary change of username would be helpful. If WikiWarrior1 isn't prepared to change his name, and the evidence given by Steve above suggests that he does understand the problem the name poses, then I belive we should accept that decision. But it would reduce my faith in the user's good judgement. PS. Is everyone aware that there is already a ]? Regards, ] 23:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I definitely think we should unblock him now. We're allowing names with characters from all languages; why not allow this username (Warrior is a good thing in many cultures and times, BTW). ]<sup>]|]</sup> 22:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I've unblocked {{user|WikiWarrior1}}, per above. -- ''']''' 22:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Just for clarity, it's '''exactly''' like "WikiKillPeople" and much '''worse''' than "WikiJihad." Unless you're some kind of very odd pillow-swinging ] you are certainly at least trying to kill people. ] can include spending time studying, for godness' sake. Can we leave the cultural bias/crypto-racism/whatever at the door please? - <font color="black">]</font> 12:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 19:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Sockpuppetry in ] incidents == | |||
| :This is a content dispute, not a conduct dispute. Since discussing the issue on article talk has not worked, please follow ] processes, such as seeking guidance at ] or ], or going to ]. ] (]/]) 19:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| A user and his , Butterrum in particular, have been making edits that are disproven, due to discussions in the ], but said user and his sock puppeteer continue to post the erroneous edits. I would very much appreciate an administrator to look into this issue, even if ''I'' will be reprimanded, to any degree, in the process; I merely wish the issue to be resolved. ] 23:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::@] taking a look because I've been tagged. While there may be content elements to it I think this has gone into a behavioural issue, namely due to it being a user actively edit warring without providing sources but instead endlessly insisting on edits that are entirely ]. ] (]) 20:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :In my opinion, the serious issue here is not the content dispute, but rather the possible sockpuppetry. --]] 00:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::It is not a problem of content but of behaviour. His claim is original research, is his own conclusion and is not verified by any source. He knows it, has admitted it, and yet he insists on adding it. ] (]) 20:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::That is very true. ] 01:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Is there a reason why this is going unaddressed? Have I gone through the proper channels? ] 22:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Is this ''ever'' going to get addressed? ] 04:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :To support my claim of sockpuppetry, consider this: if the user's were 2 different people, why would they use the exact same type of incorrect grammar (check and to understand); one particular grammatical error is the misspelling of "bealve" (believe) that is misspelled the ''exact'' same way as the other user. ] 04:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Am I going to get help with this, or should I just stop trying? ] 06:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I'm not sure. I'm actually quite surprised nobody has said anything about this report at all. --]] 06:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| (nac) ] is a moderately stable DAB page, with which I have been involved. I assume this dispute relates to ]. ] (]) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::You and me, both, man. ] 06:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Sugar Bear returns with personal attacks == | |||
| :I'm not experienced in handling sock puppet cases, but here goes. If the alleged sockpuppets appear to be in violation of ], the proper place to report them is ]. I will comment that if it appears that a single editor is posting from more than one IP address, the first assumption should be that the editor is using a dialup or other connection with dynamic IP addresses. One editor posting from multiple IP addresses is not a concern unless the editor is doing so to avoid 3RR, affect consensus in a discussion, or one of the other 'forbidden uses of sock puppets'. So, unless you can convince an admin that the alleged sockpuppetry rises to that level, this is a ] and needs to be handled as such. -- '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' 11:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=/24 blocked for two weeks. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| *{{rangevandal|166.181.224.0/19}} | |||
| *] | |||
| Using the IP range ], Sugar Bear has returned to Misplaced Pages to disrupt film and music articles. After I recognized this fact and began reverting him, Sugar Bear began a campaign of personal attacks at my talk page, using the IP ]. Can we get a rangeblock? | |||
| ::It is more of a "consensus in discussion" sort of thing; the puppeteer is using a username to make it appear as if someone agrees with his point of view. A month ago, I requested the above article to be locked down so the warred-over issues could be resolved; they were, for the most part, but one user disagreed with one change, but never truly had any evidence to support his claims. Around that time, he made a small attempt to create a consensus by creating a username and make it appear as if he, the puppeteer, was being agreed with. When I exposed him of this, I presume he stopped, in fear of being blocked, or some reason, but, when the page was reduced to semi protection, he brought out the user puppet again and, this time, made it appear as a girl, so to not arise suspicion. I ''know'' it's a sockpuppet: the puppet made edits in the POV of the puppeteer, ''and'' commits the exact same grammatical errors, like spelling "believe" like "bealve." I just want someone to look into this. ] 17:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| There's a decade-plus history of this vandal attacking me, for instance his creation of the username ]. I can spot his contributions quite easily by now. ] (]) 22:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Forget it, now. Issue has been resolved. ] 21:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| .I've blocked the current IP, I may not have time to properly investigate the range right now. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == I have a request... == | |||
| ::Past disruption from nearby IPs includes the following: | |||
| When I placed a "helpme" on my talk page, I was told I should ask this here. I am currently in the process of starting a Wiki about internet memes, and I need 2 copies of pages that are deleted and protected (If that is aloud), being that they are popular memes that Misplaced Pages has deemed non-notable (Not disagreeing with the policy, but I need copies of these for my Wiki). I need: | |||
| ::*] was blocked in 2018 and 2019. | |||
| ::*] was blocked in 2018 for one month. | |||
| ::*] was blocked in 2020, identifying Sugar Bear. | |||
| ::*] was blocked twice in 2020 for personal attacks. | |||
| ::*] was rangeblocked in 2023 for three years. ] (]) 22:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I've blocked the current /24 for two weeks, but I see a lot of potential for collateral damage for longer or broader blocks. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * A Copy of the ] article (Not Nonsense) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| * A Copy of the ] article (Not Nonsense) | |||
| == Comments by Locke Cole == | |||
| If it would be easier, you can send me multiple versions of the articles, and I can figure out which ones are good versions. You can also email them to me at Jedikyle007@aol.com. Thanks! Please leave your response on my talk page. --] 00:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop | |||
| *I, for one, refuse to fulfil that request. Although there ''are'' properly sourced versions of the ] article in the deleted history, they don't contain much that one couldn't write starting from scratch with sources. As for ]: None of the deleted revisions are useful. They are all clearly original research, contradicting one another on almost all of the details. About the only thing that they have in common is the phrase that "NEDM" expands to, which you don't need copies of deleted articles in order to record. If you want to document an Internet meme properly, the way to do it is to do your own leg-work, researching the meme and checking the facts extensively yourself, and then to publish your findings in some respectable medium. Copies of badly written, unsourced, deleted Misplaced Pages articles that are chock full of original research are not the way to start. Properly researched, peer reviewed, and fact checked articles studying Internet memes would enrich human knowledge. I encourage you to create some. ] 12:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| | result = No support for a block for either party, and filer is fine with closure. ] ] 16:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :*Unk, this person isn't even willing to watch this page for the answer: "Please leave your response on my talk page" is certainly audacious, but unlikely to get the anticipated response. - <font color="black">]</font> 12:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| '''Involved''': {{userlinks|Locke Cole}} | |||
| ::Keep in mind if he's doing this on his own website, none of our policies (RS/CS/NPOV/ETC) necessarily apply. Anyway, to the original requester, see {{tl|user recovery}}. A word of warning, however, the first articel had alot of problems, including possible libel, so watch yourself. ] 19:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| So I honestly think we should both receive a (24 hr) block for our behavior, but bringing it here for that to happen. This started when I posted a list of "keep" votes with no rationale at ]. Comments made by Locke Cole in response to the list include: | |||
| * {{tq|Sour grapes are over there, in case you're lost.}} | |||
| ::I replied to this with {{tq|What?? Voting on an AfD should be policy-based, not just "keep" or "he's too notable". I'm giving evidence to my claim that keep votes were given unnecessarily large amounts of weight when closing this. Yes, I left out the ones with evidence, because that wasn't the point of the list. Again, would you give weight to the five keep votes that just said "keep"? I believe this is the second time I've had to say this to you, but way to WP:ABF.}} | |||
| * {{tq|Well, you're already violating WP:DRVPURPOSE #8 by casting WP:ASPERSIONS about other editors. Carry on, I look forward to seeing you blocked for being an idiot.}} | |||
| ::And I replied to this one with {{tq|Yes, I removed a comment after realizing it violated our aspersions policy. Do you have an issue with that? Feel free to take this to ANI if you want to continue, as it’s clogging up the DRV.}} | |||
| This user has a long history of behavioral blocks, including '''six '''civility blocks over a span of nine years. Since this behavior clearly won't be getting better, bringing it here. It's up to y'all to decide if a BOOMERANG should happen, if we should both be blocked, or only one party gets the hammer. :) ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 02:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm not sure that the cited comments are in themselves enough to justify a block. I also note that LC has recently ]. Speaking from experience, I can state that when in deep mourning we are not always at our best. That said, I find LC's block log disturbing.-] (]) 02:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==Prolonged anonymous edits to pages about ], a UK politician== | |||
| ::While I do get that, and I do respect that and am deeply sorry that happened to them, this behavior has been going on since late 2005, and includes an arbitration request, hence why I brought it directly here. Calling me an "idiot" was 100% an NPA vio, and having a personal loss shouldn't excuse that (also speaking from experience with the loss of my mother from ] in 2014). This is a rare case where I'll say that a block log should give you an idea of whether this behavior will continue. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 02:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| No sure how to solve this problem. A number of IPs have been posting the same unsourced block of comment about Hazel Blears to her article, ], and that of her constituency, ]. The addition is in clear violation of ] and ]. ] and I have been reverting these edits since the end of last month at a rate of one every day or two. Here are the relevant difs: | |||
| :::{{tqq|bolding policies I've added at the end}} - I'll just note that every one of the "policies" you linked to (bar ], where I'm pretty sure you wanted ]) goes to ]. Which is very useful and well-thought-out, and by all means should be used as a tool at AfD, but is not policy. It's an essay ''on'' policy. There's a difference. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *{{IPvandal|195.92.168.163}} - , , , | |||
| ::::Okay then, per that I've removed the list. The comments still stand though. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *{{IPvandal|195.92.168.164}} - , , | |||
| *So the OP wants themselves and the other party to receive blocks for incivility? Why don't you just stop being rude to each other? Change your own behavior. Opening this discussion is just drawing attention to a few comments that otherwise would have likely been forgotten. I don't see how this post helps the situation at all. Just do better. And if Locke Cole comes to this discussion, I pray this doesn't devolve into bickering. Let's all just get back to editing productively and not taking shots at each other. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *{{IPvandal|195.92.168.165}} - , , , | |||
| *:I don’t know, maybe I just thought it’d continue and brought it here, likely too early. Is it possible to close this? ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 13:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *{{IPvandal|195.92.168.166}} - , | |||
| *{{IPvandal|195.92.168.168}} - , , , | |||
| :From what I read from the DRV, it definitely seemed like it got heated, but it definitely seemed to cool down. Trouts for sure, but I don't see why blocks are necessary. As for you, given that you're asking to be punished, you seem to recognize what you did wrong, and you pledge to not continue this behavior. Just change your password for a day or a week and change it back later; I don't think admin intervention is necessarily warranted. ] (]) 11:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| The relevant IPs are shared proxy webserves and so not really block candidates given the relatively sparse pattern to the edits. However, we have reached level 4 on warning templates for the worst cases. Can anything be done beyond our watching the pages? ] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Though as actual admins above have mentioned, their block history is indeed concerning. ] (]) 11:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I have semi-protected the pages for the time being. Maybe they will at least come out to discuss.] 03:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|result=Just officially closing this discussion as the account involved has been globally blocked. If an editor has Spore on your Watchlist and you see this occurring again, contact your local administrator. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| :Thanks. ] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This user made 500 edits to their user page which were all completely useless (] to inflate their edit count) and then once receiving extended-confirmed permissions vandalized ] by copypasting another article. Their user page shows them editing and counting to 500. ]] 04:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :It's a ], and I just reported to AIV. ] (]) 04:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Potential concern over COI/NPOV edits == | |||
| ::Would it be possible to put up some kind of filter to alert for this? Something that…say…catches when more than 25 edits are made in a single space (user space for example) or something that would trip if the edits added less than 5 characters consistently? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| A request further up AN/I asked for some attention to the ] article. | |||
| :::There is a filter for this. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=International+Space+Station0&offset=20241222044736, "New account unusual activity" covers exactly this. ] (]) 05:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *This account has been globally blocked as an LTA so it shouldn't be an issue. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:At what point is it appropriate to selectively delete their hundreds of edits of nonsense from the page history? | |||
| *:Or is that just something that isn't done? – ] (]) (]) 05:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::If you are talking ], there is rarely a good reason for it's use at present. If instead you mean ] see ] and ]. ] (]) 05:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::I've gone ahead and revdel'd the lot of them, as cut-and-pasting from other articles without proper attribution is copyvio and thus RD1able. Selective deletion (making the edits go away from the history) is probably not going to happen, if it's even technically possible for an article with almost *9500* revisions (I know ]!). - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == POV IP editor and 2024 Kobani clashes == | |||
| I responded, found significant POV and large chunk copyvio's on the page, documented them, and by and large fixed it. There wasn't much objection, it was very clear and I clearly and carefully explained the policy related issues. | |||
| {{atop|1=Blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| This engages in BLP and POV pushing with things like this and this , and then edit warring and then makes personal attacks like this , in a source documenting casualties for all of December instead of the specific date, and then when he is reverted by another editor respond with . I believe this person is ] to build an encyclopedia, and also the ] article should potentially be given semi-protection status as it's part of the Syrian Civil War which has discretionary sanctions. Thanks. ] (]) 05:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Oh also . ] (]) 05:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{an3|b|72 hours}} (]) and pages protected ] 13:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Promotional content about Elvenking (band) == | |||
| My attention was drawn to a user after that (]) by the next (and latest) edit. There had been a criticisms section, which I cleaned and made more balanced, then someone added a plaudits section, I reworked both, reviewed the sources to ensure no undue claims were being based on unreliable sources, and created them as one section "Third party views", to avoid a ''"good things people say!" ... "Bad things people say!"'' re-enactment of the previous dispute. | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | result = There does not appear to be an actionable COI here, just an avid fan. Content issues can be handled through the appropriate channels. {{ping|Elvenlegions}} please be mindful of musical notability and what Misplaced Pages is and isn't for. ] ] 17:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| (], who added the plaudits section seems to be trying to keep to policy, we spoke a fair bit and I explained in detail how things work. I'm not concerned about him right now, he seems for the moment to be trying to comply with our approach now it's getting more balanced attention.) | |||
| I noticed a consistent addition of promotional content about an apparently unencyclopedic band, namely ], with articles being also dedicated to each band member (eg. | |||
| My attention was drawn to then, by Router, in which he split "Third party views" into "criticisms" and "accolades" again. I'm not convinced. But before discussing on the talk page I thought I'd look at his , since his name had been mentioned more than once as a person coming from a string negative point of view. This was his edit history: | |||
| ] and ]) and their unsold discography, which also got a dedicated template ({{tl|Elvenking}}). I also noticed a weird pattern by ], which appears to be either a very big fan or in conflict of interests, as well as other accounts apparently created just to support the band (eg. ]).<span id="Est._2021:1734845816539:WikipediaFTTCLNAdministrators'_noticeboard/Incidents" class="FTTCmt"> — ] (] <b>·</b> ]) 05:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</span> | |||
| :I am indeed a big fan of the band and am trying to update the band's wikipedia information to make it as accurate as possible so people can learn about the band. I hope this helps support the band and also helps wikipedia readers and users who wish to learn more about the band. ] (]) 06:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :* First edit: farmers (feb 2006) ''"Criticism is essential in knowing about a company. When you think of Enron, what do you think of? Individual stories that make headlines are relevant and need to be documented as so, under Criticism"'' | |||
| :*If these musicians are not notable, you can always tag the articles CSD A7. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :* Next major action: (may 2006) create article "]" and adds back criticisms of "Farmers", also (rightly or wrongly) reverted of the person who removed the criticisms. | |||
| ::Understood, Elvenlegions, but ]. If the band, nor its members, nor its discography qualify as notable under the ], then the band's fans will have to learn about it elsewhere. ] 07:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Since then he's repeatedly edited strong critical views into Farmers, its business affiliate Zurich, Allstate (another insurer), and Paypal. | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Disruptive editor on ] == | |||
| Router's edits: | |||
| :*]: ... (23 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: ... (19 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (9 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (8 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (8 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (7 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (6 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (4 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (3 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: ... (28 edit(s)) | |||
| :*]: (6 edit(s)) | |||
| User ] has repeatedly removed reliably sourced refs to the genres infobox by removing ] simply because they don't believe it to be correct as the ref is "new" and that the artist isn't that genre. I had sent them two warnings now and also explained that's not how this works, so they decided to add more genres with refs that don't even mention the genres they included. I do not believe this editor is going to cooperate. ] (]) 08:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Criticisms input is valuable. But given the "gripe site" edits and suspicion by other editors that Router may run such a gripe site, I'm reluctant to step in without requesting at least some other experienced editor to review the article, advise first, and also watch this situation and help ensure that it remains balanced and calm. Also to ensure that if any editors wish to edit with a strong viewpoint on these articles, they are doing so with understanding of what wikipedia (RS, COI, NPOV, V, NPA and all other relevant policies) would require of any editor. I am slightly reassured in that he hasn't massively reverted anything though. But I do feel this small setup could spiral a bit and right now it could readily be defuzed with help. ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 00:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :User:Pillowdelight changed the genre list of When the Pawn... which originally had been a variation of certain genres: Art pop, jazz rock, art rock, alternative rock, jazz pop, chamber pop, all of which are somewhat accurate and agreed upon by various editors of this page over many years. It was changed to just Alt pop, a genre that is used to describe the newer sounds of pop in the early 2010s with Lorde, Sky Ferreira and Lana del rey. It is not a genre that fits the album hence it has never before user:Pillowdelight been described as such beyond what her poor source says, a Fiona Apple revisit (that is not even about When the pawn.. specifically) from a new, small and virtually unheard of web magazine. Sources such as Rateyourmusic, allmusic and Pitchfork are far more accurate and robust and that's why this album has never been described as alt pop. That genre did not exist at the time of the release of the album. The source needs to be accurate, it is not. It's not an album review, it is a fluff article about Fiona Apple by a small web magazine. It's not even about When the pawn... specifically, it makes no sense. I think the other editors agree, it is inaccurate. | |||
| :Remove them. If a gripe site contains negative information assembled from reliable sources, that information can be incorporated into the main article (subject to the usual editorial discretion and consensus). Sites that consist of personal anecdotes, blogs or fora, and other types of original unverified research should not be listed, per ], ''Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or '''unverifiable research''''' (emphasis added).] 03:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Allmusic and pitchfork are far better sources. I have added both as sources. I didn't change the genre list, I simply changed it back to the genre list that had stood there the longest before user:Pillowdelight changed it a few months ago for the first time, having never touched this page before yet complaining about other editors. ] (]) 18:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{ping|Longislandtea}} I removed the genres because they're unsourced, which I stated in many edit summaries you keep reverting, as well as on your talk page. It doesn't matter that just because you believe a source another user added calling the album alternative pop is incorrect and unreliable because it's "new, small and virtually unheard of" is a ridiculously excuse. Read ] it states — {{xt|genres must be stated and referenced in the body of the article; personal opinions or original research must not be included.}} The sources you have added specifically from Pitchfork don't state the genres you've listed. ] (]) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Sources need to be '''legitimate''' and''' relevant'''. Your source is not relevant and it is disputed. Pitchfork is added because they describe the album as an alternative album several times in the review and the genre category is ROCK. What is alternative and rock? Alternative rock. That is how the album was marketed. You can't cherrypick a single article to make a case for a genre that the album absolutely is not in. I will remove the Pitchfork source, that's fine. There's numerous ones including from Allmusic that clearly state that it is an alternative rock album. The album was even added to Misplaced Pages's page for alt rock albums ages ago. This is very uncontroversial. Just having alternative rock is also lacking; jazz fusion, art pop (the album is already added on the wikipedia page for art pop albums) and art rock are accurate too and have been there for ages but alas! Let's get rid of it all to only serve your opinion. Numerous albums have unsourced genres might I add, but the vast of amount of editors agree to it because they know these accurately describe the album, these are the scenes that the album and artist comes from and sourcing for genres can often times be lacking. In that case, rather than trying to look for BAD sources, it's better to agree with the consensus. In our case, we do have sources. Rateyourmusic has been used as a source for adding art pop, alternative rock, jazz pop, fusion, art rock and chamber pop as genres before. ] (]) 20:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Here's the page for what is considered acceptable sources {{lw|Acceptable sources}}. | |||
| ::::''Relevance. Sources must be relevant--there must be some reason for the reader to care about what the author has to say. For example, the opinion of a random individual on the presidency of George W. Bush, as published in a letter to the editor of a major newspaper, is not relevant; and thus should not be included--even though it is published, traceable to its author, and given in a reputable publication. Relevance can be imputed several ways--through explicit personal knowledge, through subject-matter authority, through general notability of the author, through demonstrable correlation with the opinion(s) of a large group of people, etc.'' | |||
| ::::A large group of people, the editors of When the Pawn...'s page throughout the years, thousands of people on music reviewing sites and numerous music journalists from legitimate publications do not agree with what this one article you cherrypicked states. | |||
| ::::''Note that this policy is the minimum standard for inclusion as a reference in Misplaced Pages. Sources may meet this standard and still not be authoritative, reliable, accurate, free from bias, or undisputed. Sources which meet this minimum standard but which fail to meet stricter standards may be used, but should be used with caution. In particular, such sources should be explicitly attributed to their author(s) or publisher(s) in an article's prose (rather than being presented as fact with the author only given in the notes), and disputes considering the source's veracity should be described.'' | |||
| ::::Meaning you can't just add any genre because some random source says it when it goes against larger and more reliable sources as well as it is controversial. | |||
| ::::Thank you and please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand. ] (]) 21:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::]. Note that accusing editors of vandalism when they are not, in fact, vandalising can be considered a ], so I'd suggest you strike that comment. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Okay, I strike. ] (]) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::You didn't actually strike any comments. To do so, do this <nowiki><s>Comment</s></nowiki> which will make it look like this <s>Comment</s>. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::<s> please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand.</s> ] (]) 22:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{ping|Longislandtea}} How is the source considered not relevant and where was this dispute? AllMusic ''does not'' call the album alternative rock at all within its article. Rate Your Music is also not a source it's user generated which is against Misplaced Pages. I really wish an admin would comment on this because this is getting absolutely nowhere. ] (]) 21:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Here's another source describing it as an alternative rock and jazz fusion album | |||
| :::::https://www.the-solute.com/the-solute-record-club-fiona-apple-when-the-pawn/ | |||
| :::::Alt pop is not accurate. If you're so adamant about alt pop, please argue why. It is completely inaccurate and you have one singular source over music journalists and music sites. Allmusic does categorize it as alternative rock, Pitchfork has categorized it as rock since 1999 of its release. There was NO Alt-pop at the time. It still isn't. These are different genres. Art pop is not Alt pop. You edited the page one time in October 2024 only to get rid of the genre list that editors agreed upon to add Alt pop which makes no sense whatsoever. ] (]) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I have now added a new source to the genre list. If you have any problems with the new source, tell me. But it's much more accurate this way. It's still sad to see the whole genre list that was originally there, so much more descriptive and fitting, hacked away but oh well. ] (]) 21:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Pitchfork's categorizations mean basically nothing. They have ten categories, one of which is "Pop/R&B", and another of which is "Global". By the way, you should just stop caring about this, because sources misclassify genres of music chronically and everywhere you look. Take your passion to RateYourMusic. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :All of this discussion should be taking place on the article's talk page (which neither editor has used). ] ] 21:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{ping|Schazjmd}} I'm awaiting for an admin to respond. This conversation is getting nowhere hence the reason why I brought it here in the first place. I've tried to explain to the user on their talk page along with this entire thread and it's getting nowhere. {{ping|The Bushranger}} you left a comment but could you please share your opinion on the dispute? Or possibly ping an admin who's familiar with music if this isn't your area of familiarity? ] (]) 21:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::There was no reason to bring this conversation here. I talked to you directly but go no real reply or any arguments despite adding sources and explaining why it's not an Alt pop album. I've explained to you well enough. Please stop trying to get admins to ban me simply because I (and other editors) recognize that the genre list that you got rid of was far more fitting. There's a new genre list now with sources but it is not Alt-pop. The album was already added to the wikipedia album pages for Alternative rock and art pop. I'm familiar with these genres and Fiona Apple specifically to know that it's accurate hence why the genre list has been that way for years. If you're adamant about sources, there is a source. Accusing me of not sourcing should be considered a false accusation at this point. Not all sources are equal either and I've tried explaining that to you. ] (]) 21:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::], you were given good advice which is to have this discussion on the article talk page which neither editor has posted at yet. This is a content dispute. If no action has been taken yet by an administrator, it's likely because they don't agree with your statement that action needs to be taken. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Okay, will do. Thank you Liz. ] (]) 22:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| === Irrelevant sources and unnecessary changes to genre list on {{pagelinks|When the Pawn...}} === | |||
| ::Exactly. Personally I think that Router is associated with the #$%^sucks.com sites, and I'm watching Farmers, Zurich, PayPal, and Allstate at the moment to see that they don't creep back in. I've got your back, FT2, and am very appreciative of the work you did on Farmers. ] 12:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| On October 22 2024, {{lu|Pillowdelight}} changed the genre list that has stood in place for years and has been a variation of the same variety of genres: Art pop, art rock, jazz, alternative rock, jazz rock, chamber pop and jazz pop. Across the biggest music sites, this is what the album is described as. The user changed it to Alt pop using a single irrelevant and unreliable source. The album is not described as such anywhere else. The user is going against the general consensus. Sources have now been added to the genre list and I don't feel as though that would mean I'm breaking any rules. The user is threatening to get another editor banned because they're uncooperative with how us other editors feel the genre list should look like. It's an album that has been categorized as rock by Pitchfork at the time of its release and was added to rock charts when released too. | |||
| ==Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks== | |||
| Here's how the genre list has looked over a long period of time, without much controversy from editors not readers: | |||
| This page needs some love, there seems to be an anon asking for more "alternate theory" space in the article and people just reverting. Even my comments on the issue seem to be getting deleted. I asked one of the original people to just let the anon make his case and to stop reverting but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears, now its just becoming a mess and an edit war, one of the admins semi-protected the page, but that just stops the anon from making their point, doesnt seem constructive and a bit on the WP:BITE agenda. Can someone who is willing to actually play the middle person get these folks talking and not reverting, its annoying to have my comments removed when they revert and more annoying to not be able to post because of the reverting. --]<s>]</s> 01:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1178937091 from 2023 | |||
| :To quote ]: ''Talk pages are not for general conversation. Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal.'' Drama and vacuous accusations of vandalism and trolling create unnecessary drama. I suggest this drama should be ignored without further... well, drama. Revert, block the associated drama queens (] ] ] et al), ignore per ]. ] 01:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1049316366 from 2021 | |||
| ''Dramatize or de-dramatize, that is the question''<br> | |||
| ''Whether 'tis nobler in the ] pages to suffer''<br> | |||
| ''The ]s and the ]s of Dramatic Encyclopedians''<br> | |||
| ''Or to take ] against the flood of drama queens''<br> | |||
| ''And by exposing their ], ban them. To revert, to ignore...''<br> | |||
| :] 01:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: On the plus side, I am sitting in the departure lounge of Philadelphia International listening to the ] Gloria, which can only be good... <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 02:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::And might I suggest a little ] to soothen the tensions? ;) ]] <sup>No running, shouting or ] in ]</sup> 02:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::On the ''what'' side now?! Anyway, for your apparent lack of respect re my poetry skillz, I punish you with: | |||
| ::::''There once was a troll from Nantucket'' | |||
| ::::''Who thought, 9/11? We'll dramatize it'' | |||
| :::::''When vandalizing the talk'' | |||
| :::::''Forgot to use his sock'' | |||
| ::::''And promptly for his error got blocked.'' | |||
| :::(It's got to be Friday.) ] 02:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Thank you. ] (]) 19:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| : I like your passage, though those words seem stolen from somewhere I can't quite place it. It did make me smile. However, I think you make several logical mistakes in all of this. Since when has blocking a Cplot sockpuppet ever "ended" drama. MONGO's original mistake was thinking that blocking Cplot would somehow protect Misplaced Pages from drama (he claims to be clairvoyant about this: I'll take him at his word, after all he did make us immortal). Anyway, I think you're grossly misinterpreting the ]. Every editor should edit talk pages with the understanding that their off-topic rants may get deleted. However, no editor should ever remove another's off-topic rants making claims of trollishness or vandalism (unless something is clear vandalism or a clear personal attack; forget about trolls because trolls are only mythical). Entering into a revert war with another editor who you have dismissed as a troll or speaking off-topic, does not end drama it creates it. In the immortal words of Chicago's former Mayor Richard J. Daley, speaking about the anti-war demonstrations accompanying 1968 Democratic Convention: ‘The police aren't there to create disorder. THe police are there to preserve disorder.” If you think something is trollish, ] recommends ignoring it. If something is clearly vandalism, Misplaced Pages recommends deleting it (just make sure it's clear vandalism). If you think someone just posted a comment that—if you posted it—you would be expect others to revert it, then explain to the editor what they posted that should probably be reverted. End it there. Don't get involved in an extended discussion with the editor over some meta conversations over whether the comment belongs or doesn't belong on the talk page and creates unnecessary drama. --] 02:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Why do people have to argue about what genre music is rather than just listening to it, and hopefully enjoying it? ] (]) 19:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::The genre list was fine and accurate and uncontroversial until this user decided to remove the entire thing. It's important that the genre list is accurate. People find albums through genres. There's other reasons as well. ] (]) 20:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::This is neither here nor there, but I thought albums are generally sorted in alphabetical order by band name or the musician's last name. | |||
| :::Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or my information is incomplete. ] (]) 22:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I was trying to explain the important of listing genres accurately. If you go to a record store then yes, albums are listed in alphabetical order. But they're still put in categories of genres. ] (]) 22:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::If we were going to list musical genres "accurately," we wouldn't bother at all. Except in very broad strokes ("rock," "punk," "Baroque," etc), so many of these horribly subjective "genres" are made up by bored media writers and bands that hate the notion of being The Same As Everyone Else. Get ten people to listen to ten different tracks of heavy metal, and you won't get as many as a third of them agreeing on any of them on the doom/grudge/dark/death/Goth/Viking/sludge/*-grind/*-core/etc etc etc spectrum. Beyond that, arguing whether any given artist is "that genre" is ''very'' highly subjective. (Hell, I've sung Baroque, classical, folk, rock, ethnic, shape note, so many genres I can't readily count.) ] 15:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Bunch of racist IPs/account == | |||
| :: On the pus side, I am sitting in the departure lounge of Philadelphia International listening to the ] Gloria, which can only be good... <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 02:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=Sent packing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| Article: ] | |||
| * {{user|GREEKMASTER7281}} | |||
| * {{ip|112.202.57.150}} | |||
| * {{ip|186.154.62.233}} | |||
| ] (]) 13:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Named account indeffed, IPs blocked for 72 hours each. ]] 14:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::: You're not using one of those dreaded WiFi hotspots are you? I here those are . Of course I heard that from an insane person, so don't give it too much credence. --] 02:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Urgent need for page protection on BLP == | |||
| :::::::Is that a rap? I guess admins prefer edit wars I do not mind, its weregerbil who is getting the bunt end and an article as popular as 9/11 attacks not getting any contributions. --]<s>]</s> 02:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop | |||
| ::::::::Misplaced Pages has an article on it! ]. And thanks for your help with detecting another half a dozen Cplot socks! ] worked fine again. ] 13:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| | result = Protection applies. Appears admin eyes are on the Talk page. ] ] 19:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| There is currently a content dispute going on at ] involving allegations of a mental health crisis with mulitple IPs involved in a dispute over wether the information is reliable or not. A discussion is underway on the article's talkpage, but in the meantime there is revert warring taking place on the article. The page could really benefit from temporary semi protection. -- ] (]) 18:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::* It's a bad ]. Um. | |||
| :Looks like ] got it. ] (]) 19:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::: A user from downtown New York | |||
| ::{{reply to|DMacks}} Thanks! Yeah. I assume they will also need a third-party closer given the heated nature of the argument. -- ] (]) 19:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::: Engaged with the people on Talk | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| :::::: but conspiracy theory | |||
| :::::: made editors leery | |||
| :::::: of risking a ] | |||
| ::::: Or something. Oh, is that my flight being called? A narrow escape for all... <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 02:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Multiple users breaking 3RR on Gilman School article == | |||
| Thats nice but as you see its not really helping the page at all and the edit war continues, with many more comments getting lost in the shuffle. Can a non-involved admin look at the issue, one who is willing to do more then slap on a label. --]<s>]</s> 03:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :As the page is now being targeted by aged accounts, I have fully protected it until a resolution can be reached here. Please feel free to modify the protection as is deemed appropriate. ] 03:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Personally I don't like the idea of full protection. Even though there was a sock attack on that talk page, it was a talk page with ongoing discussions and those discussions have now been cut short. --]] 15:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| And the sock parade continues into request for page protection. ----]] 03:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Two users are actively engaged in an ongoing edit war on ], with both {{user13|Counterfeit_Purses}} breaking 3RR , , , and {{user13|Statistical_Infighting}} being right at 3 Reverts | |||
| == {{user|LithiumLollipop}} == | |||
| , , . | |||
| This seems to go back to December 9th, with the first editor (Counterfeit) removing it and , on the 17th, , and then being at the above today. | |||
| I'd like to get a review of my indefinite block of {{user|LithiumLollipop}}. Although the user's contribution page reveals nothing, I request admins to look at the (deleted) history of ]. It just seemed too high on the creepy factor for me... -- ''']''' 02:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * Odd. Indef-block is fine to prevent further problems, see what they have to say for themselves. Unblocking would be acceptable if they show they have got the point. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 02:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **I was able to see one page before it was deleted, and shouldn't such things be forwarded to any police? <sub>→]]</sub> 12:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * It just looks like ] to me, from another person who has mistaken Misplaced Pages for a free hosting service for pages about themselves. (Culture varies across the world. I'm sure that many editors would be surprised what some people in some countries find to be perfectly acceptable to write about themselves on their own web pages.) Deleting the unsourced biographical article is proper. (Even ''if'' acceptable to the autobiographer, such content is most definitely not acceptable ''here''.) But an indefinite block on the article's author seems rather harsh, though. To me, the username connotes nothing more than the rather surrealistic image of a ] made of ]. Just the deletion of the article seems sufficient. ] 13:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) | |||
| == ] violating ] and ] == | |||
| *E/C applied. ] ] 19:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{u|Counterfeit Purses}}, please be aware that the ] article was kept in a recent Articles for Deletion debate, so the consensus of the community is that he is notable. Edit warring to keep his name off the alumni list is a ''really bad idea''. ] (]) 20:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::@] No problem, I've already given up. I would argue that ] applies here, but there's no sense in pushing against the tide. If you're content to have the lede section of Gilman School include "prominent graduates including "alleged murderer Luigi Mangione", I guess that's fine. It seems to be an unusual thing to include and an obvious case of undue weight given to something that is in the news at the moment. Perhaps someone should start a Wikiproject to add famous murderers to the ledes of other schools? ] (]) 22:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{u|Counterfeit Purses}}, in my view, ] is among our most misunderstood policy documents. It begins {{tpq|In principle, all Misplaced Pages articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events.}} I believe that Mangione is notable, the evolving article is acceptable, and his name belongs in the alumni list. Many, many "bad people" are listed as alumni in countless school articles, and it is not at all unusual. The only unusual thing here is that the lead of this particular school article lists alumni, and so I have removed them from the lead. ] (]) 01:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I'm glad that misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS is so common because I am going to continue to misunderstand it. I see that Liz Luigi Mangione from the lede before you removed the rest of the list. Acknowledging again that I have given up hope that Mangione will be removed from this article, let me ask you what you think the purpose of these alumni lists is? Including Mangione is an editorial decision. We don't include all notable alumni in these lists, so why should we include Mangione, and why now? It's too soon to know if he will have lasting relevance. ] (]) 04:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::{{tqq|We don't include all notable alumni in these lists}} Why not? If someone is Wikinotable and went to a Wikinotable school, then they belong in the "Notable alumni" section of that school's page, ] - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::@] I'm not saying "we shouldn't", I'm saying "we don't". We don't include every notable alumnus in these lists, nor should we because it would lead to long, unhelpful lists stuck in the middle of articles about the schools. ] (]) 04:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::If an alumni list bloats an article, it can be split out. See ]. 11:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) (Oops, signing) ] (]) 16:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Of course that's always an option, but what I am saying is that it isn't desirable to have every alumnus listed in an article for a school. Ideally, it would be a selection of alumni who have made significant achievements in their field. Otherwise, it's just trivia. Am I wrong? ] (]) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Yes. You're making a value judgment that some alumni (with articles, else they most definitely should not be included) are more notable than others. That is ]. ] (]) 20:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::Yes, that's called editorial judgment. Just like deciding not to include every known fact about something in an article. At some point, it is just trivia. Misplaced Pages is not a database. That info would probably be welcome over on Wikidata, which is a database. Alternatively, someone could just add ] (in this case). ] (]) 20:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::::And a new user, who doesn't understand categories and has no idea Wikidata exists, is relying on the list on the page. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64, yet again == | |||
| ] appears to have violated ] and ] by creating a user box directly attacking another editor, ]. See . ] but it was still there last I looked. Earlier, Jefferson Anderson also which only included Mattisse's name. He removed the "list" after another user commented unfavorably on it but replaced it with the userbox above. | |||
| {{atop|1=Genre warrior sent packing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| {{userlinks|2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64}} - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued the same behaviour immediately following the end of a 3 month block. See block log and the two previous ANI threads from September (], ]) related to this /64. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: {{diff|You Could Be Born Again|prev|1264637321|1}}, {{diff|Kites are Fun|prev|1264637435|2}}, {{diff|Heaven/Earth|prev|1264641723|3}}, {{diff|Stars/Time/Bubbles/Love|prev|1264642096|4}}, {{diff|...Sing for Very Important People|prev|1264642646|5}}. ] (]) 20:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I see the genre warriors are out today. Don't you realise how childish you are? (Not you, ].) ] (]) 20:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I thought I was the only one who noticed how many were running rampant today. So exhausting. . . ] (]) 20:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::/64 blocked for six months. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == User:NoahBWill2002 == | |||
| Jefferson Anderson also significantly edited the ] page ( and ), which is a ], without any discussion on the talk page. Please note that Jefferson Anderson has been named in a in the ], thus may have ulterior motives for wanting the policy worded differently. --]<sup>] • ]</sup> 02:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=NOTHERE blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| *{{userlinks|NoahBWill2002}} | |||
| It looks like there's a pretty severe ] issue with this user. Virtually every one of their edits has had to be reverted either for adding copyrighted content/, (), or . Lastly and indicates that they're unlikely to learn from any of this. <br> | |||
| (As an aside, I just blocked them on Commons for uploading non-free files after warnings (and having copyright/the issue with their uploads explained them in detail) and uploading out-of-scope files after warnings.)<br> | |||
| I think admin action is warranted here. ] (]) 22:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I 100% agree with ] on this. ] appears completely unable to comprehend and/or follow some of the core rules of Misplaced Pages, especially ] and ], despite multiple editors trying to help them understand. The comment that Squirrel Conspiracy , followed by a series of blatant copyright violations, makes it abundantly clear that this editor is not going to change and is not here to build an encyclopedia. ] (]) 22:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::They have only had an account for a few days. It's seems rather soon to proclaim they are "not going to change". The images they were trying to add have been deleted from the Commons, let's see if they can find other ways to contribute to the project now that they can't promote their artwork here. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Given ], I'm not sanguine about their intention to contribute productively. ] (]/]) 23:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::They added ] grossly inappropriate religious screed to ] on their third day of editing, then they responded to a warning about it with ]. I had hoped they would get the message but just today they made ] non-NPOV edit apparently based on their religious beliefs. Apart from religious edits, apparently the only other thing they've done is add self-produced fan art to a variety of articles. I'm willing to AGF while they learn what are acceptable edits here but I'd like to see some acknowledgement from them that they understand why all their edits so far have been unacceptable. (It would also show good faith if they would clean up the now-broken links in numerous articles now that their fan art has been deleted from Commons, rather than leaving it for other editors to do.) ] (]) 00:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I have indefinitely blocked NoahBWill2002 as not here to build an encyclopedia. ] (]) 01:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Vandal encounter == | |||
| :The evidence and workshop pages of the arbitration case are the appropriate places to bring this to wider attention. ] 20:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] seems to be a vandal who seems to be ready to start an edit war. I have reverted their disruptive edits, and they have begun to add them back. | |||
| ::Thanks for the pointer. I added this info into my statement on the evidence page there but thought a, um, more immediate forum might also be appropriate. I guess I'm feeling a certain frustration at the length of time since the beginning of the case without certain changes in behaviour. (Yes, I'm aware that Arbcom cases generally run from 1-2 months.) It was not my intent to circumvent the arbitration and apologize if it seemed so. --]<sup>] • ]</sup> 20:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| diffs: </nowiki>] </nowiki>] </nowiki>] </nowiki>] | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I would have put this at AIV, but I have no clue how to edit source. ] (]) 23:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| This story is short and simple. About a year ago, a user "Gammamute" began vandalizing the ] article. See: ] and ] | |||
| :{{not done}} - Not an admin - I hate to be that person but unfortunately you've not sufficiently warned them, They've only received one warning and their edits aren't gross vandalism so this would only be declined by an admin anyway, If they continue I'll report them to AIV, Thanks, –]<sup>]</sup> 23:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| After being quiet for the past year or so, the user ] popped up and began vandalizing the same ] article once again. See: and . | |||
| ::Ah, I see. Thank you! This has been noted for the future. Thank you, again! ] (]) 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::You're welcome, Happy editing, Thanks, –]<sup>]</sup> 23:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] mass-creating articles for non-notable or nonexistent places == | |||
| After I posted one warning for this user to , he began posting whiny "legal threats" on my talk page. See: and . | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | result = GDJackAttack1 has agreed to no further creation of the problematic articles. Extant ones being handled via usual channels. No further action needed here. ] ] 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| {{user|GDJackAttack1}} has been mass-creating stub articles for places such as insignificant residential subdivisions and other localities in Alabama and Maryland (]), islands in the Bahamas and Senegal (]), and other insignificant highways and airports around the world. None of these articles are sourced by anything that verifies notability, just databases and maps, which has resulted in at least one article being pointed out as a map misreading and therefore nonexistent community at ]. I can only speculate how many more of these places do not exist and if any of them are ]s. | |||
| I'm actually a Misplaced Pages admin and I could block this guy myself. But, I'd rather take the tried-and-true method and put this one up to more neutral admins to check out. | |||
| There are too many of these articles to send through AfD or PROD manually and there is really no point in draftifying them or converting the articles into redirects since we have little proof that these topics are notable or even exist at all. Their ] consists of nothing but notices of their articles being moved to the draftspace, AfD/PROD notices, and messages informing them to be more careful about article creation, yet they have seemingly ignored these messages and have persisted with spamming these stub articles for no clear reason. <span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#3366cc">] ] ]</span> 01:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Thank you for your assistance. --] 03:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *It wasn't the best of vandalism warnings. However, I've looked at the two edits linked to. It seems clear that the person has a serious intention of instigating legal proceedings against another editor. Therefore I have revoked the account's editing privileges until either all legal threats are retracted or all legal proceedings are appropriately completed, per our ] policy. ] 13:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I will stop creating these articles. ] (]) 01:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == User:Sanghak == | |||
| :I tagged one as '''CSD A7''' to see if that would work. ] ] 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{replyto|Bgsu98}} Thank you, I also considered PROD-ing them all but I noticed you have so already. <span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#3366cc">] ] ]</span> 02:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::I think I got all of the ones that that Maryland batch, but I’m sure there are more. ] ] 02:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == User:Glenn103 == | |||
| I'm notice that this user is had the superb imagination in the various part of Misplaced Pages. See ]. | |||
| {{userlinks|Glenn103}} has been mass creating unsourced stubs about Cyrillic letters, most of which have been draftified. They've also disruptively edited in the past, such as: <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 01:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Most of these pages don't even make any sense (eg.: ]). The user also ignores any notice about his articles being moved to draftspace by simply recreating duplicates of them (eg.: ] & ]). Immediate action may be needed. ] (] <b>·</b> ]) 07:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I have blocked them from article space and page moves, and will leave note on talk page to come here. — ] ] 15:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Honestly, this almost feels like trolling. Their basic procedure seems to be: pick a random Cyrillic letter. Combine it with a random diacritic. Write a short stub on the combination, saying effectively "this letter combination is not used anywhere." The occasional historical mentions ("this combination was used in such-and-such obscure Siberian language") are completely unsourced, of course. (Everything is unsourced.) ] (]) 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Excuse me for detracting from the report, but this was your 4th edit, your last edit was in January 2016... how have you found yourself here of all places? | |||
| :First, i'm notice that he is likely to upload an sourceless image to the Misplaced Pages. While the bot is edited out his image editing to the articles, he is revert the bot editing and restore to the previous version while the source yet to tagged. | |||
| :I mean you might have a point, but wow. – ] (]) (]) 04:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==TPA for 83.106.86.95== | |||
| ::Second, he have the superb imagination to the country codes in football template. While the FIFA is not granted any country codes to that country (it is not a country indeed, and just province), he is create the template with a "special" country codes while the list is not exist. | |||
| {{atop|1=Done. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| {{userlinks|83.106.86.95}} | |||
| Could someone revoke TPA for blocked IP, based on ? ] (]) 02:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Third, i'm also notice that he is like to create an article with unverifiable content such as page ] and doing some awful job in some sub article in ]. | |||
| :Done and revdel'ed, thanks to JJMC89. ] (]) 02:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Fourth, i'm notice he is like to vandal, such as the FIFA host for 2008, he wrote Japan , adding football team while it is list of flag , put the extra line in article , adding nonsense content | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Can you please help? == | |||
| All this only few newest editing, while he is doing the same in the past. Please assistance to resolve this probelm. Thank you ]] 05:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] got moved from ] (because his middle name might not be John). But the talk page for this person is at ], and the talk page for the disambiguation page is at ]. I don't know what happened to the disambiguation page, and I don't know how to fix this. ] (]) 02:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :{{done}} Couldn't be moved because the target page had to be deleted; its now fixed. As a note for the future, ] would be a better place for this, since it isn't an 'incident'. That said - ''was'' there a dab page at ] before? - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Thanks to everyone for resolving this. As to the place for this, at some point I was told that "if you're a new user you have no reason to post at ]" or something similar. I appreciate the help. ] (]) 05:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :(edit conflict) I think that the disambiguation page's revisions were merged into the history of the moved page, if I'm reading ] correctly. | |||
| :@], can you confirm what happened/fix this? – ] (]) (]) 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Actually, WAS that the intention (merging the histories)? I have no idea how this works. | |||
| ::Maybe The Bushranger already did all that needed to be done. – ] (]) (]) 02:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::(edited): There was a dab page with two entries. It is now a redirect from William Swainson to William John Swainson and the direction is now different. The full histories are (merged) restored and visible. PS: I have added a hat-note to the one other (far less notable) lawyer - ] - if there are many more entries to be dealt with then the (currently a redirect) page at ] could be reinstated/used. ] (]) 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::(nac) An intitle search turned up no other William Swainson, so I've tagged {{-r|William_Swainson_(disambiguation)}} (which has no significant history) for speedying under ]. ] (]) 06:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == POVPushingTheTruth == | |||
| :::::As I checked his contributions, he has been violating copyviorights, and recreating non-sense articles, just for disruptive behaviour. ] ] 05:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|1=The truth may set you free, but ] will get you blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| ] is clearly NOTHERE. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 05:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Blocked. -- ] (])| <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added 05:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)</small><sup>]</sup> | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == North Korean involvement in Russian-Ukraine war discussion == | |||
| If you check his Talk page, you'll see that I blocked him some twenty minutes ago. --] (]) 05:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| The inclusion of North Korea as a belligerent in the infobox for the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" article has been a point of extensive and protracted discussion since September. A formal Request for Comment (RfC) on this matter ran for several weeks and was closed with a clear consensus to include North Korea as a combatant based on reliable sources and expert analysis. However, despite the closure, the discussion has continued unabated across multiple threads, with certain editors repeatedly rehashing resolved points and questioning the validity of reliable sources, leading to significant disruption. | |||
| :I've already given you the head's up in an earlier section. (See Sanghak (user-contribs) above). He even kept adding names of ] without providing his sources. He doesn't even observe alphabetical order. Yes, there is a block, I don't think 48 hours is enough. When he does something, he either ignores the warnings or just doesn't read his talk page. Is there something further that can be done? Despite that, thanks for your vigilance, Mel Etitis. - ] | ] 10:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| '''Key Points:''' | |||
| :::In my opinion, 48 hr block is enough for considering himself about copyvio. ] ] 01:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| # '''Prolonged Discussions and RfC Closure:''' | |||
| Sanghak is at it again; this time, he created the ] article which contains just a route and no other details. He even tried to give new unconfirmed names to the ] which were reverted by Aleenf1. What should we do now? - ] | ] 11:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| #* The RfC on North Korea's inclusion was conducted thoroughly, with a wide range of arguments presented by both sides. | |||
| #* The closing administrator, S Marshall, determined there was a clear consensus to include North Korea as a belligerent based on reliable sources and the strength of arguments. | |||
| #* The close explicitly allowed for reevaluation if new battlefield events or sources emerged, but no substantial new evidence has invalidated the prior consensus. | |||
| # '''Ongoing Disruption:''' | |||
| #* Despite the RfC's resolution, the same arguments are being repeated across multiple threads, often by the same editors. | |||
| #* This behavior includes undermining reliable sources, misrepresenting their content, and insisting on a higher standard of verification (e.g., requiring firsthand evidence of North Korean combat, which is unreasonable given the context). | |||
| # '''Reliable Sources Confirming North Korean Involvement:''' | |||
| #* Multiple reputable outlets, including the BBC, Reuters, and Pentagon statements, confirm North Korean military involvement and casualties in the conflict. | |||
| #* Experts from institutions like Chatham House and RUSI have explicitly stated North Korea's role in combat, aligning with the community's decision. | |||
| # '''Impact on the Community:''' | |||
| #* The continued disruption consumes editor time and resources, detracting from the article's improvement. | |||
| #* These actions disregard Misplaced Pages's consensus-building principles and guidelines for resolving disputes. This dispute has been ongoing for months, with multiple threads being opened and closed on the same topic. | |||
| '''Request for Administrative Action:''' | |||
| ==Threats being made/Need others to Defuse== | |||
| I respectfully request that administrators address the following issues: | |||
| I have no wish to inflame a situation, but made on the Admin Noticeboard must be reported. The user called ] is at present the subject of a ], stemming from his having made a supposed death threat against another Misplaced Pages user. Husnock left this site about two to three weeks ago, but there have been reappearances of persons on various ip addresses, claiming to have known him or to be supportive of him. The evidence of these persons to the Arb case was all but dismissed, even though some of it was valid, with a group of 2 to 3 people charging Husnock with using different accounts. The ip addresses used by these persons are ranging from several spread throughout a particular region, some of them miles apart posting within minutes of each other, but all of them were being called Husnock simply because he had once lived in the area and that these addresses were giving support of him. In any event, things boiled over when a user called ] was charged with being an alternate account for Husnock. Pahuskahey was openly called a liar about most everything he posted or said, which by the own definitions of this site qualifies as ]. Husnock himself apparently , stating he did not want to edit on this site and that these persons over the past few weeks were not connected with him. This was immediately attacked by certain persons followed by a threat from ] that Husnock better '''“seriously think about what he was doing”''' or there would be '''“serious real world ramifications for you”''' and that Husnock should '''“think about your career and where you are”'''. Wikipedians, what ever you may think about Husnock, that statement I just quoted is a threat pure and simple. Husnock was dragged over the coals because he made a vague reference to someone watching what they said because he was in the military, this later being called a death threat. What was said by Charlesknight is much more blatant a threat than anything Husnock ever said or did. It references Husnock’s real life, his job, and then says that he better think about where he is, as if someone is going to come and find him. Husnock’s initial actions (which I cannot defend because they have been pretty low) does not give others the right to now threaten him and throw all policies of this website to the wind. Pure neutral people need to handle this and need to end this. The same group seems to be reappearing, over and over again, trying to attack and bring down this user with this spilling over to Pahuskahey who hasn’t done a thing wrong. I cannot comment on, but I have recommended that he simply remove the offending picture. Thank you for your attention to this matter. –A concerned Wikipedian (-] 06:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)) | |||
| # Enforce the consensus reached in the closed RfC, as no new evidence significantly alters the previous conclusions. | |||
| :That is not a threat; it's trying to point out to someone that being stupid on Misplaced Pages isn't an action in isolation, divorced from the real world. ] (]:]) 06:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| # Discourage editors from rehashing resolved discussions, particularly when arguments have been repeatedly addressed and dismissed. | |||
| # Consider imposing a topic ban or other appropriate measures on editors who persist in disrupting the article with repetitive or bad-faith arguments. | |||
| This matter has been discussed exhaustively, and it is essential to prioritize Misplaced Pages's goals of maintaining a high-quality, well-sourced, and consensus-driven encyclopedia. | |||
| ::The anon (Husnock mockpuppet?) is, of course, wildly exaggerating, but I am puzzled about what ] meant by these terrible things that will happen to Husnock (I know not what, but they will be the terrors of the Earth...), which he can't mention in public. --] (]) 07:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Thank you for your attention to this matter. | |||
| UPDATE: I just noticed that North Korea was removed as a belligerent and added to the 'supported by' section, completely violating the consensus. | |||
| ] (]) 08:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Since this report isn't really about an incident and your request is directed towards admins, I think this complaint would be better placed at ] rather than ANI. It will also need more specifics, which articles, which edits, which editors. You'll need to provide that. I also question whether or not these are content standards that the community can't handle on their own. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I was going to post it at ] but it said: "'''This noticeboard is for issues affecting administrators generally – announcements, notifications, information, and other matters of''' ''general administrator interest.'' | |||
| ::If your post is about a '''specific problem you have''' (a '''dispute''', user, help request, or other narrow issue needing an administrator), you should post it at the ''']''' (ANI) instead. Thank you." | |||
| ::I posted it on ANI beecause my specific problem was this dispute ] (]) 12:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::The original post in this thread appears to resemble LLM output. GPTzero confirms this impression, rating text as "99% probability AI generated". Using AI to generate ANI submissions is highly inappropriate. ] (]) 18:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Even when a message appears to be AI-generated, I think it is worth considering whether or not it is pointing out an actual problem. I think editors might be ignoring the results of an RFC, I just don't think asking for administrators to monitor a subject area, without identifying specific articles, is a feasible solution. It does seem like, possibly, a point that could come up in a complaint at AE regarding the Ukraine CTOP area. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I had a peek and it's a messy RfC and, as is generally the case with a messy RfC had a very involved closure message which seems to reflect that the closer felt constrained by the framing of the RfC. I didn't see any immediate indication in the edit history that anyone had tried to implement the RfC result and been rebuffed (although I might have missed it). So there's some smoke here but, I think, not a ton of fire. ] (]) 20:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Liz, I don't disagree but I'm not at all convinced that use of AI is a positive contribution to CTOP areas. ] (]) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::It was written with AI assistance. Not all AI. ai detectors aren’t considered reliable, because you can put the U.S. constitution through one and it says 100% AI generated. Regardless, whether it’s AI or not has nothing to do with the topic. It’s just that there’a been so many discussions and when I checked the info box it said ‘supported by”, violating the consensus of the RFC ] (]) 12:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I think the underlying issue here is that if you use AI to generate text which looks like obvious AI output then readers will wonder "does the end user even have sufficient English to understand what the AI has generated for them?" and "did the end user understand the material prior to deciding to employ AI?". Thus if a user is fluent in English, as you obviously are, it will always be better to communicate in your own voice. | |||
| :::::::At the end of the day, a user making a valid point in their own voice is generally speaking going to be taken more seriously than a user employing LLM output. | |||
| :::::::There are plenty of other reasons for users not to employ AI (see the recent thread here for extensive coverage) but the argument above seems like a good practical reason for fluent English speakers to always prefer using their own voice. | |||
| :::::::You will see from the recent thread that many users here are vehemently against AI use. ] (]) 15:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::I understood the material very well, its not like I just used 100% AI out of nowhere. I know the context. I have been involved in this discussion since September. ] (]) 16:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Dispute Over Edits and Use of British Raj Sources == | |||
| :::Do you mean ] rather than Morven? —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 07:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{Atop|Content dispute.--] (]) 15:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| Hello, | |||
| Yes, sorry (I'm editing in the early morning because I couldn't sleep...). --] (]) 08:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I’m seeking administrator input regarding a dispute with @] over the content in the the "]" article. The editor removed significant content, citing ] as justification. Here are my concerns: | |||
| :: I'm going to be very vague here and if an admin requires a fuller explanation of what I'd talking about I'll email it because it could make matters worse. | |||
| '''1. Misapplication of Policy''': | |||
| All of the following can be found on wikipedia - Husnock is in the miltary, he's even posted a picture that clearly identifies him. He's now operating a sockpuppet who claims to have had a son die in action and receive the Silver Star and Purple Heart. he supplies so much information about the "death", that's it's a pretty simple matter to work out it's a total fabrication. I don't think it's a threat to point out to another editor, that if he wants to play the sockgame, he does not want to do it in such a manner that leaves a trail of breadcrumbs that can lead straight to his door. I'm frankly sick of the whole affair but I think it would be remiss of me not to point out to Husnock the possible ramifications of someone in the miltary pretending to have a dead son who was a solider who died on active duty. My "threat" was to suggest that Husnock kills his sock account and starts again with a clean account and gets on with the business of editing. He could have done that with the Pahuskahey account but instead he decided the best course of action would be to get it to post on the Husnock accounts arbcom within 3 or 4 posts thus drawing it's attention to everyone. | |||
| Sitush’s essays are not official Misplaced Pages policy. Content decisions should follow ], ], and ]. | |||
| The real crime here is that at one stage Husnock was an administration - a position that is a indiciation that (at least some) the community has spoken and said, "hey you do a great job here", at the moment he seems intend in destroying any rep he has left. | |||
| '''2. Dismissal of Reliable Sources''': | |||
| Unless an admin wants to discuss this further, I'm sick of the whole thing and will say no more on the matter unless requested. I'm sure various other socks will appear from various UAE IPs (like the one who started this) but the attention-seeking has to stop and I don't intend to feed it anymore. --] 11:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| The removed content was based on ]-era sources, which are neutral and historically significant. The editor claims these are unreliable without specific evidence or discussion on the article’s talk page. | |||
| '''3. Unilateral Edits and Dismissive Behavior''': | |||
| == Personal Attack and Uncivility of user ] == | |||
| Despite my attempts to discuss the matter constructively, the editor dismissed my concerns as "]" and warned me about sanctions under ] and ], discouraging collaboration.] | |||
| In the ] article, user ] after reverting the article to fit his POV added in Romanian a message for other users: | |||
| '''Evidence''': | |||
| "luati'mi pula la frecat" | |||
| which means "Take my cock out and rub it". | |||
| This is not the first time ] ressorts to personal attacks, he did so in the past on the discussion page of the ] article, archive 4, "the deleted fragment" (http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Romania/Archive_4#The_deleted_fragment) when again in Romanian said: | |||
| ] | |||
| "o sa bag toti mafiotii ca tine din tara care au furat din averea poporului roman asta in puscarie." | |||
| whcih means: "I will put in prison all mobsters like you who stole from the wealth of the Romanian people" | |||
| '''Request for Administrative Action''': | |||
| 1. Review the removed content and the editor’s justification. | |||
| I am not very familiar with Misplaced Pages's rules but this strikes me as a certain violation. | |||
| 2. Ensure that disputes are discussed on the article’s talk page. | |||
| :(Reply to poster), suggest checking ] and ] for him and ] for you. ] 19:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| 3. Address the editor’s dismissive tone to foster collaboration. | |||
| == Charles knight must die! == | |||
| 4. Prevent further disruptive edits/vandalism by IP editors (which hasn't happened yet) And from Autoconfirmed users(e.g. @GrilledSeatJet , -) and even from Extended Autoconfirmed users(@]) by banning such editors and putting an extended protection on the Article which I have once put request ] for but it got denied and now the results are as follows. | |||
| Hi - not sure of the best place to do this. I've been pretty active dealing with vandals and never-do-wells over the last couple of years, that tends to attract various bits of attentions - that's no problem. However it seems that another real-life Charles Knight has been caught in the crossfire and he has received various unpleasant emails. I have no problems in changing the account to something else but how do I do it? Do I start a new account? Can the name of this one be changed? ] 11:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Sure, you can request renaming, see ]. ] 11:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Thank you for your time and attention. I’m happy to provide further information if needed. | |||
| and it's done. thanks. (so I'm crap at pennames - so sue me!) --] 12:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ----Best Regards | |||
| --- ] (]) 10:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{Abot}} | |||
| == Nothing to say about me really bot == | |||
| Eh, I liked Charlesnight, ever since you pointed out that your name is also the naem of a ] (this was during another incident with a user whose username was of a famous celebrity). ] 04:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | result = Locked {{nac}}. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 13:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| *{{vandal|WilhelminaBlosse}} | |||
| == Please investigate ScabbinOnTheAngels == | |||
| Please delete the user page, block the bot and report to stewards for a global block, as per ]. Thank you! ] (]) 11:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| It appears to be an spa just to make the . ]? ] 11:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| :No, sockpuppet of ]. ] 11:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Whatever it is, it is disruptive and needs an assisted passage off here :) ] 11:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Terminated. — ] 11:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::: Evidently Cplot is finding it hard to accept that he is not welcome. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 14:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Concern About a New Contributor == | |||
| == Topper vandal - second request for assistance == | |||
| {{userlinks|Kriji Sehamati}} | |||
| Dear Wikipedians, | |||
| Hi, I posted a request for an urgent block on who's been vandalising articles with misinformation for months and that I've been cleaning up after for three weeks now. Nobody responded to it. He's now taken to removing prod tags I put on his hoax articles, so this morning I had to put three of them up for AFD. Can someone please block him? Thanks. ] 11:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I hope you’re doing well. I wanted to inform you about a new contributor @], despite lacking experience, has repeatedly attempted to vandalize multiple articles. These articles were properly aligned with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and reviewed by experienced contributors, but he/she seemed unwilling to understand or respect their adherence to the policies. | |||
| == Templated Signature + Ignoring talk page = Block warning == | |||
| I believe your experience could help address this situation effectively. | |||
| I've just placed a on Why1991's talk page: While I was ''strongly'' against the block of User N for having a "disruptive" signature, this user is doing something that the dev's made a software change to prevent. I'm sure that he knows this as well, because he must be copy/pasting the template in as opposed to using <nowiki>"~~~~"</nowiki> as it would subst the template automagically. I've brought the warning here for review, preparing for the trout slap if I'm smoking ]<br/>Again. <br/><font color="black">]</font> 12:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Ask him to ] it? ] comes to the defense of <s>b00bies</s> n00bies. Meh. — ] 12:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::He obviously left a trail – . If its not allowed by the devs, how did he do it? — ] 12:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::First of all, when devs forced auto-substing of signatures, it didn't affect already defined signatures, only new ones. And even if someone would like to change their sig later, there's still a way to fool MediaWiki around. I won't disclose it for sake of ], but feel free to email me, if you'd like to know (this doesn't seem to be Why1991's case though). ] 12:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::This guy had a signature that took up 5 or 6 lines in the edit window. When it was pointed out to him that this was incivil and unacceptable per ], he changed to the template, presumably because that doesn't take up much space in the edit window. Seems as though that isn't allowed either. Why he just doens't remove most of the useless nonsense in his signature is beyond me. ] <sup> ]</sup> 15:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Templated sigs are now automatically substed (just as <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>), resulting in the bulk code '''still''' ending up on the talk pages and in the edit boxes, essentially defeating the purpose of his template. --] <small>(])</small> 00:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| All he has to do is trim the signature down to something of reasonable length. I think the warning is fair. --] 00:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Looking forward to your advice on how to proceed. | |||
| ==Minor sockpuppeting== | |||
| This is strictly Junior-League stuff, so far, but might just as well nip it in the bud. | |||
| Thankyou! ]] 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Brand-new user {{User|Horário nobre}} is created at 00:54, January 6, 2007. First two edits are to immediately create a short but rude ] message ("Foda-se. Não podia ter sucesso nos Estados Unidos, não?", which is Portuguese for "Fuck. It could not have success in the United States, not?" according to Google's translator). The only other edits are to nominate ] -- which I had recently whipped up -- ], even including shortcut-linked text in the nomination, and, when that fails miserably, removing from the article the external link to NYD's Web site and throwing on some random {{tl|fact}} tags. So what's this guy's game, I wonder? | |||
| :"Vandalize" is a very loaded word here with a specific meaning. As far as I can tell, what they've done is nominate 4 articles for deletion, and your has been to accuse them of vandalism, ignoring dispute resolution procedures and making personal attacks – none of which I can see at a glance through their contributions. | |||
| Of course, I really should have run the user name through a translator when he popped up, since "Horário nobre", it turns out, means "prime time" -- as in indefinitely banned {{User|Primetime}}. The boy does NOT give up. --] | ] 13:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Perhaps if you supplied ] of this behaviour, someone would be able to help? If your issue is that they've nominated 4 articles of which you are a major contributor ''and'' are doing so by going through your contributions in order to find articles to nominate for deletion with specious reasons, then this board would be the place to come. If not, then making your arguments for keeping the articles on the AfDs in question would be your best bet. | |||
| * I think the operative phrase is "Bwuhahahahaha!". <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 14:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :By the way is forum shopping. Stop that. ] (]) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :(ec) This is an odd one. As S-Aura failed to provide diffs, I looked at Kriji Sehamati's contribution history. New account (9 Dec) began editing today, created two drafts and made a bunch of edits to those. Then began adding COI tags to articles S-Aura wrote, nominated those articles for deletion, and then left a template on S-Aura's talk page. Really seems to be something weird going on here between those two. (In addition to opening this ANI thread, S-Aura asked for help with basically the same message on the talk pages of Ipigott, Ryan shell, CFA, and BusterD, and S-Aura opened same complaint at AN.) ] ] 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I am concerned that ]’s actions, including unjustified deletion nominations and spamming, are disruptive and violate Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. | |||
| ::She seems to lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related ] and ]. ]] 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::You were asked to provide diffs. You did, almost, but then reverted yourself. Those diffs (well, the ones before those diffs) are just the other user nominating articles for deletion (which is allowed) or tagging them for what they believe to be conflict of interest edits (which is also allowed). | |||
| :::Please provide some actual evidence that the other user is engaging in chronic, intractable behaviour, rather than just not editing how you would like them to. ] (]) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Here are some diffs highlighting her problematic edits. However, I believe that many of her contributions may be in violation of Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. It appears she has specifically targeted me and added the COI tag multiple times to the same page. I would appreciate it if you could review her actions more thoroughly: | |||
| :::: • | |||
| :::: • | |||
| :::: • | |||
| :::: • | |||
| ::::and many more | |||
| ::::Thankyou! ]] 17:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::We wouldn't generally treat an AfD as vandalism. ] (]) 17:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I understand your point about AfDs not generally being treated as vandalism. However, I noticed that the major contribution history of the user seems suspicious. ]] 17:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Not from where anybody else is standing so far. I get that you're upset to have four articles of yours nominated for deletion, and if you have any evidence ''at all'' that you are being deliberately targeted by the other editor, then people will very much act on that. Please provide it. ] (]) 17:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::I am here to contribute and edit articles in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. However, today a new user targeted me and falsely blamed me for actions that are not accurate. I believe this is unfair and not in line with the collaborative nature of the platform. ]] 18:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Please provide evidence of this. ] (]) 18:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Please check! ]] 18:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::The articles that have been nominated for deletion discussion have been reviewed by experienced contributors. These discussions involve articles about judges and lawyers, under ], a valid criterion according to Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. Therefore, the deletion decision was made after carefully reviewing these articles. ]] 18:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Honestly it looks like this user, rightly or wrongly, believes you have a conflict of interest and are acting on the basis of that assumption. I would suggest, if you don't have a CoI, talking to them about this and maybe asking why they've come to this conclusion. ] (]) 18:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::They have just started targeting my contributions, and I tried to inform her about the situation. However, she is acting as if she knows everything about Misplaced Pages and is dismissing my concerns. ]] 18:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{od}} | |||
| :{{ping|Kriji Sehamati}} hasn't edited since their AfD spree earlier today, let's wait and see what their response here is when they return to editing. ] ] 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *We need to stop focusing on the OP's calling this vandalism; it is not. I've changed the header to reflect that. That said, the new user's edits ''are'' problematic and merit scrutiny. As for the UPE stuff, I've removed that post from the OP's Talk page; it's nonsensical coming from a new user and does not merit a response.--] (]) 18:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *It is, of course, not vandalism to nominate articles for AFD discussions as long as a legitimate deletion rationale is provided and the article hasn't just been discussed at a recent AFD. However, I don't think it's a good sign when a brand new editor claims to understand all of Misplaced Pages policies and whose first actions are to nominate articles at AFDs. They are almost never an actual new editor, especially when they know how to even set up an AFD or are familiar with using Twinkle on their first day of editing. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:It seems that she is not new to Misplaced Pages and might be operating multiple accounts. It appears she has an issue with one of my contributions, as she created her account just 15 days ago, yet she already has a good understanding of tools like Twinkle and AfD procedures. This level of familiarity suggests prior experience on the platform. I am now requesting her account to be blocked as I am completely disturbed by her repeated allegations and disruptive behavior. ]] 11:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::I am now genuinely confused—if all my contributions are not good, then why am I even here? Were the experienced editors who reviewed and approved these pages also mistaken? A newcomer, who joined just recently, is now disrupting and questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors. This situation is deeply discouraging. ]] 11:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::Please resolve this situation—either block her for her disruptive behavior. How can i continue working under such constant targeting and stress ? ]] 12:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::User:S-Aura, you seem to be making unsupported personal attacks against ]. You should provide specific evidence of wrongdoing, including diffs, or your arguments here will fall on deaf ears (and bring consequences for you). Meanwhile, as a filer on ANI, you have brought all your own edits to close scrutiny by the community. You may have to face that smart people disagree, and this is how we sort disagreements out on English Misplaced Pages. You are not required to edit, but we encourage you to do so. Nobody is going to block Kriji Sehamati at this point, because you've given us no reason to do so. ] (]) 12:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::Meanwhile, in the last few minutes S-Aura has disruptively about this exact issue on this same board, which by another editor. This is intentional disruption. ] (]) 12:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::As to the question "Why am I here?", poets and artists have been trying to answer this question for eons. Epistemology is outside the scope of this board, but there are articles about it. Show up to edit if you want to, but expect disagreement from time to time. (That's actually a sound answer to any epistemology question as well.) ] (]) 12:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::Dear @], | |||
| *:::::It means I have been proven wrong, and that user’s contributions have been more focused on me, which is quite insufficient to catch someone’s lie that she is pretending to be new, when in fact she is old. | |||
| *:::::Also, I am not against AfD; I am simply expressing my opinion. ]] 13:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::Could you please rephrase your point here? I don't understand. While it's okay to be suspicious that this editor is somehow socking or doing something else deceptive due to the familiarity, it seems unacceptable to deliberately accuse them of such repeatedly without firmer evidence. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::Dear @], | |||
| *:::::::I am not engaged in paid activities on Misplaced Pages, and she claimed that I am connected with the subject, who is a judge, lawyer, etc. You all should understand that this is not a trivial matter; justice is a very respected position. Making such allegations can escalate court cases. I would like to remind you of the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI case. ]] 13:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::One thing you need to understand immediately is you should never make another post that sounds vaguely like a legal threat, as you've just done above. ] That intonation is seriously not helping us decide who's right or wrong here. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::::Okay! ]] 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::I will caution you that this is tiptoeing right up to the edge of ] and you'd be advised to avoid making legal threats. ] (]) 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::::Dear @], | |||
| *:::::::::I am merely showing that she can potentially do something inappropriate. I am following the guidelines and not making any legal threats. ]] 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::::Accusing another editor of potentially making legal threats is not much better, when there is no concrete evidence that they would do so. Being interested in articles about judges does not suffice. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::The page of Justice ], who had conducted over the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI court hearing, was also created by me. ]] 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::::<del>State plainly what the implication you are making here is, because what I'm hearing is "I'm familiar with people who have hit Misplaced Pages with a mallet in court before, and I can make sure it happens again".</del> <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::::This is becoming a rabbit hole. I urge you not to pursue the rabbit further. ] (]) 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::::::Good call, I'll retract the above. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::::::No, that is not what I am implying. ]] 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::No one has said your contributions are not good. However, it should be noted that a draft being accepted at AfC or a new page having been ] does not guarantee greater scrutiny would not result in a valid AfD nomination. That said, echoing others here it's clear something problematic is up with this user's behavior. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 12:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::You can't both criticize someone for {{tq|lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related ] and ]}}, and then argue that she is too familiar with the platform to be a newcomer for knowing how to file an AfD. I wouldn't be surprised if most people here knew how to file an AfD before knowing all 14 notability guidelines by heart. ] (] · ]) 12:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::There are detailed instructions on filing an AfD that can be found by googling "how can I get a Misplaced Pages page deleted" - if somebody had some personal reason for wanting to have pages removed it doesn't strain credibility to think that's why they created a WP account and that they just followed the very clear instructions on the appropriate pages. | |||
| *:::In fact that might explain why some of the AfD filings were reasonable and some were, on their face, incorrectly filed. If you looked up the AfD ''process'' but not ''criteria'' that is the likely outcome. That's why I find the "new user files AfDs must be a sock" idea here somewhat uncompelling. ] (]) 13:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *I believe we're entering boomerang territory at this point. Opinions? ] (]) 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:I think OP is upset that a cluster of their articles were put up at AfD. This in itself is understandable, but while there's reason to think there might be mischief by Kriji Sehamati, we don't have any real evidence of it. We either need the OP to make it clearer what misconduct, if any, has occurred, or they need to ]. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 13:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::The OP has been intentionally disruptive (by creating a new ANI thread which was reverted), and this thread is going nowhere. IMHO, there's nothing ANI can do here. Everything I'm reading about should be resolved at the page talk and user talk level, in my opinion. The AfDs are underway. If dispute resolution is needed, fine. Nobody is harming S-Aura. S-Aura can't come crying to ANI (or four random user talk pages like mine) anytime someone merely disagrees with them. ] (]) 14:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::I'd have said close with trout for all if not for creating the second thread at AN/I. Based on that I'd say the OP should be formally cautioned against such antics in the future. ] (]) 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::I should have added that I largely hold with Remsense in their position. ] (]) 14:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::] is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages, but we don’t have any evidence because understanding Misplaced Pages’s AfD process so quickly can be a bit challenging. I have no problem with AfD regarding my contributions, and it’s a good thing that experienced contributors are giving their feedback. If you believe that the kriji is 100% correct and her activity is not suspicious, then this discussion should be closed. ]] 14:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::You need to stop insisting this is definitely the case if you don't have any evidence for it, period. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 14:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::S-Aura, how did you make the determination {{tq|User:Kriji Sehamati is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages}}? Please share your process. That's a personal attack, and requires proof to prevent you from being in violation of ]. I've looked at the AfDs and they seem reasonable to me. When you've provided strong sources the article is being kept. So far the jury is out on the others. Both of you seem to be writing articles about obscure living persons who wouldn't normally (by my cursory reading) have a Misplaced Pages article about them because reliable sourcing is not readily found. When I see that, I must suspect COI or undeclared unpaid editing here, but nobody's admitting to it. ] (]) 15:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::S-Aura's continuing to issue personal attacks makes it more difficult for us to just close this (without some form of consequence for the editor making unproven personal attacks after they've been warned repeatedly). ] (]) 15:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::I have made a level-four user talk page warning for the personal attack. FYI. We've been very nice about this up 'til now, but we need to stop being so kind. Doing foolish things has real world consequences. ] (]) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * Both editors' apparent use of AI is certainly disruptive. If it continues, it should lead to blocks. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 15:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Support BOOMERANG''' - I've been uninvoled and have mainly just been watching the back-and-forths, but the personal attacks and ] mindset, such as "questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors", concerns me. Not sure for how long, but I don't think anything longer than a months is appropriate given the circumstances. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 15:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Darkwarriorblake making aspersions == | |||
| :Tagged and noted as appropriate, CheckUzer request for IP-investigation filed. ] 19:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop|result=The OP says they don't care any more which I'm reading as a withdrawal and the other party says they won't be responding again so I'm closing this discussion. My only comment is that both editors in this dispute should have brought this to the article talk page to talk this disagreement out. I don't know if the differences would be resolved but this is what we advise editors to do when their edits are reverted. Now I just have to get that scene in the movie out of my mind. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
| Postscript: Ah, someone just close this, I don't care any more. — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 22:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ---- | |||
| I'm posting here after a particularly underwhelming interaction with an editor in the form of edit summaries. I'll need to provide the context of a brief content dispute which hopefully won't take too long and then get to the point. I'm not asking for anyone to take my side in the dispute. | |||
| '']'' is a widely acclaimed comedy film from 1983, which is also widely acknowledged to have problematic elements by modern standards, including a scene in which the villain of the piece, stuck in a gorilla costume, is locked in a cage with a real gorilla, which is implied to sexually penetrate him without his consent. | |||
| == Persistent personal abuse by ] == | |||
| The article states that ] demurred being cast in the role upon finding that out. for this claim is a ] on ], which contains the sentence | |||
| ] (and his suspected sockpuppet ]) has been persistently abusing other editors on ]. Some of this abuse is arguably antisemitic. He has referred to other editors as "members of the sanhedrin", a "loosely affiliated undercover netwok of operatives working to further the Zionist agenda", "Zionist moles", "Zionist gatekeepers", "an established crypto Zionist", "a Jewish Tribal activist", "worms come out of the Wiki woodwork" and other choice epithets taken from the lexicon of ] himself. I have just deleted an offensive personal attack on ]. This level of personal abuse goes far beyond any acceptable level of debate, and the racist comments have no place at all on Misplaced Pages. Can any steps be taken to restrain or sanction this editor? ] 17:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : ''Reportedly, Liddy was on board until he got to the part where Beeks .'' | |||
| Reportedly ''by whom'' is not mentioned, let alone is there a direct quotation from Liddy. Plus as can be seen the words "becomes a gorilla's mate" are linked to a very poor quality, hand-held video of the scene in question playing on a television. This alone should be enough to raise serious questions about the use of this "source" in a featured article. | |||
| The content dispute began when I changed it like this () with the comment ''Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs'': | |||
| :{{vandal|Ednas}} was clearly only an attack account, and I've blocked it indefinitely. --] (]) 22:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{text diff|Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla.|Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks is raped by a gorilla.}} | |||
| This was reverted () by {{u|Darkwarriorblake}} with the comment ''not what the source says''. | |||
| ::But you haven't blocked him, and he continues in his antisemitic abuse of other editors. ] 13:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| After thinking about it a moment I came to the conclusion described above about the quality of the source, and decided that it was better out than in, which is what I should have done in the first place.() | |||
| == ] == | |||
| {{text diff|...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks. Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla. Paul Gleason took the role;...|...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks with Paul Gleason eventually taking the role;...}} | |||
| We may have a developing ] issue at ]. There are several users attempting to remove negative material from this article, whose subject has apparently enlisted ]. See especially . Additional eyes would be very much appreciated here. ] ] 18:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Rather then blogs, find and use actual news accounts. --''']''' (]) 19:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| My accompanying comment was ''(a) That was the source's voice, not Liddy's. It's called a euphemism. Demonstrable by how it links to a clip of the scene in which a man is raped by a gorilla. (b) Source says "reportedly" for this claim, without evidence. Poor quality source. Removing claim'' | |||
| == Return of the GMC blogger == | |||
| That was reverted by Darkwarriorblake () with the comment ''Nothing wrong with Indiewire as a source, if there is I'd raise it at ]. Until then, there's a talk page for you to use per ]. Your comments sound agenda driven and therefore not Neutral.'' | |||
| See {{user|MedicalNews}}, especially this diff . Also {{article|General Medical Council Abolition}} and {{article|Good doctors, safer patients}}. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This is where the reason for me to raise this at this board begins, because that's solidly an example of ]. It came on top of a revert which reintroduced a claim cited to a rumor in a blog post into a featured article, but that's really not my concern, because if the champions of the featured article process have decided that it's somehow acceptable for our "best" content then I'm just going to move on to something else rather than argue. | |||
| ==Edit war at ]== | |||
| I'm edit-warring at {{la|Unikkatil}} with {{user|Astrit}} over the mention of Kosovo and Serbia. So far, I haven't been able to get Astrit to either discuss the issue or explain changes using edit summaries. - Regards, ] 18:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Same thing again () - ] 12:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| There's one final back and forth which was enough to motivate me to post here. First, I reverted that revert (, my only time using the actual "Undo" button today), with this comment: ''a good source doesn't say "reportedly" (ie, spread a rumor), it specifies the origin of a fact. My only "agenda" is with a crap listicle being used as a reference, regardless of who published it. Take it to talk if you want to argue for the continued inclusion of a trash ref in a featured article, or source the claim properly yourself''. | |||
| ==] and the unblock template== | |||
| I blocked {{Userlinks|Guardian Tiger}} as an abusive sock and advised him to put up the <nowiki>{{unblock}}</nowiki> template for review by an uninvolved admin. He did, making a detailed argument for the block being unsupported by policy as well as me being personally unfit to impose it. ] reviewed and rejected the request and replaced the template with <nowiki>{{unblock reviewed}}</nowiki>, but Guardian Tiger has now replaced the <nowiki>{{unblock}}</nowiki> template. I feel a bit of a fool at this point, since I realize it's a common occurence, but what's next? It seems kind of obvious to assume that he doesn't get to keep doing that; should I (or, very much preferably, somebody else) politely tell him so? Or is it OK to have the block reviewed several times? Personally, I would like to see this block amply reviewed, since the user has impugned my credibility as the blocker. Thoughts? ] | ] 22:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| :Bishonen, I'll review it. And I'll protect his page if the request is invalid.--]<sup>g</sup> 22:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Block looks good to me. Socking is obvious and admitted. Bishonen has plently evidence of abuse. Talk page protected to prevent further unblock requests. I suspect there's plenty of admins have checked this as valid now.--]<sup>g</sup> 22:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Tiger is claiming that access to the original account has been lost, so there is a possiblity that Tiger could now be considered the main account, not a sock. However Dmcdevit has confirmed that the user has at least one other unblocked account, so I wouldn't stress too much. Regards, ] 23:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Ben Aveling is correct in stating that access to the original account has been lost. Guardian Tiger was my original account but I wish to nominate ] as my main and '''only''' account. Hi, ], thanks for contacting me on this talk page. Are you an admin on Misplaced Pages? I wish to nominate ] as my main and '''only''' account. I '''cannot''' access the accounts: ], ], or any other account except the one I'm currently using now. You may block the other accounts except my nominated main account as necessary or request another admin to do it. Please see ] for details. Thanks. ] 21:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Please refer to ]. --] 23:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I believe the point Gangsta is trying to make is that ApocalypticDestroyer's is/was probably also the owner of ], an account which was permanatly blocked, in a large part for being a disruptive sock. And therefore, I believe his argument runs, all other accounts belonging to that user should also be permanatly blocked, including the user's main account. I don't believe that's policy. Certainly, using a sock can earn a ban (or a ban extension) for other accounts belonging to the user, but there is no requirement that the users main account recieve the same length block as the sock account(s). My understanding of this specific situation is that ragnarok would have only have received a temporary block except for the fact that it was a sock. Either way, no perma-block was applied to Ragnarok's main account at the time, assuming that Ragnarok is/was owned by Apocalyptic, which seems probable to me, though I can't claim to be sure that it has been proven. Regards, ] 07:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) <small>If his passwords are as long and complicated as his usernames, I can see how he comes to forget them!</small> | |||
| ::::Ben, you seem to be disregarding the fact that I have blocked ] not just as a sock but an ''abusive'' sock. In fact, you know, these accounts are all one person. There is to my mind something illogical about a measure that "fixes" the permitted behaviour of the user behind the accounts (the socking) but allows the bad behaviour (the stalking and harassment) to continue. I've asked mackensen to take a look at this. ] | ] 08:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| :::::Regardless of which is the sock and which the main account, which has been blocked as a sock, and whether he's been banned or just blocked before, these accounts are all the same person, and I've blocked ] now too, and I will consider him and any and all of his sockpuppets and IPs from now on banned from Misplaced Pages unless anyone gives me any reason not too. The community's patience with him ]. ]·] 08:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I'm looking through Tiger's edit contribution for gross abuse, and I'm not seeing it. He's accused at least one admin of not being neutral, which is certainly uncivil of him but I think the Giano case established that it isn't a hanging offence. He's accused {{Userlinks|Isberg}} of being a sock which is uncivil, even if he's right. (He isn't, is he? If he is, I owe him an .). He's accused {{Userlinks|Certified.Gangsta}} of harassing him and campaigning to have him banned, which is also accurate, and as far as I can see, he's done this complaining in relatively polite terms. He's used a lot of accounts over time, but no one (other than Certified Gangsta, formerly known User:Bonafide hustler) is claiming that he has been using them in parallel. So he may or may not be abusive, but he isn't a sock master. (What sort of self respecting sock puppetier loses the passwords?) I wouldn't be surprised if there's some 3RR violations and POV waring but most of his edits look reasonable, lots of wikilinking and some minor edits. Nothing that wikipedia will colapse for the lack of, but nice to have. I haven't checked every edit, especially from the long dead accounts. No doubt I've missed stuff. Just to set my mind at rest, will someone post some diffs to this gross abuse and harrasment and I will promptly and publically apologise for making this request. Sorry everyone for being difficult. Regards, ] 11:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This was reverted - again - by Darkwarriorblake () with the comment '' How are you an admin? "rape played for laughs" is an agenda, this went through FA as is so ] and ] apply. You must go to the talk page, not I. I don't know if you're going through a bad time or something but this isn't how an admin should be acting or communicating with others, up to and including ]'' | |||
| A few admins had already reviewed the blocks so I don't think we should be discussing this right now. All evidence can be found at my talkpage (the timeline I set up), ] ], and I believe a few of them on Bish's talkpage.--] 01:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| At this point it's gone firmly into the realm of knee-jerk reversions, because if Darkwarriorblake took the time to read the article which they've (is this ]? Kind of feels that way), they would get down to the ] section. Which says "some critics have praised the film while highlighting elements that they believe aged poorly, including racial language, the use of blackface, and the implied rape of Beeks by a gorilla", cited to articles in four major publications. Or, you know, even . | |||
| == Enforcement Request on ] for sockpuppetry, block evasion, and disruption. == | |||
| So anyhow regardless of whether the Indiewire source is deemed suitable or not, I'm just wondering what the feeling here is about someone making goofy assertions on the record that another editor has "an agenda" (what agenda could it be?) and may not be emotionally stable, which really doesn't feel like ] at all. — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 20:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Please see ] and especially the requested sanctions (bottom). This user continues to use this confirmed sock to edit and harass other editors. Thank you so much. --] 00:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Hrrm, this seems a bit excessive. | |||
| :*I've added a second source for the claim. Really this should've been the first option rather than removing the content. | |||
| :*The first summary was, as stated, "Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs". "Rape played for laughs" is a loaded comment and not something said in the article or the source text, so it's a personal opinion, it's not neutral, it's agenda-driven. | |||
| :*When this was reverted, the editor just removed the content entirely claiming IndieWire was unreliable. There is, as far as I'm aware, nothing wrong with Indiewire. I've since found a second source, the Telegraph, which is reliable per ]. | |||
| :*The editor ignored WP: BRD when raised, and as an admin they should adhere to policy. | |||
| :*The editor states that they are an admin on their page. Assuming this is true, the aggressiveness of their edits, hyper focus on the single area, and use of words like "crap listicle" seemed out of line with what I, personally, would expect from an admin on Misplaced Pages, certainly someone who has been so for nearly two decades. Perhaps the edit summary wasn't the place to have that discussion but, as stated, they weren't adhering to WP: BRD to start a discussion, and in the interim the article needed putting back to the status quo. | |||
| :*I find accusations of OWNERSHIP often tend to come when people don't get their way. Which is fine. I have plenty of reversions on the page for people adding unsourced content and there are plenty of changes as well. I find someone removing sourced content and me putting the sourced content back to not ''really'' be something you can fling ownership at. | |||
| :*Within the context of the film, Beeks does become the romantic partner of the gorilla, it seemed more appropriate and encylcopedic text than just saying 'rape', and neither source I've added says that either. | |||
| :*Anyways, my edit history shows I'm a massive contributor and helper and it's nearly Xmas, and I don't feel like engaging with this any further, good luck Hex. ] (]) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Of course you don't, having ignored the actual matter of your conduct that I'm raising here. Your comments about the content of the article are irrelevant. — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 20:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *Hex's position is not wholly supported, although in the entire issue, their toolset is irrelevant. There was no incivility on either part, and an all-out edit war seems to have been averted.{{pb}}Fundamentally the change Hex wanted to make was pure OR; rape may have been intimated—or, as Hex themself admits, implied—but its never overtly stated and is a wholly loaded term. This is the interpretation of an editor, not of secondary sources. If there is a pron=blem with Indywire as a source—currently used in —take it to WP:RSN. If it's disputed that it's a high quality source per WP:FA?, then take it to WT:FAC. Accusations of OWNership are as unhelpful—and as much an aspersion—as accusations of agenda-led editing. In fact, for OWNership, Hex should read the relevant policy: here, it is WP:FAOWN, which not only allows for careful stewardship of featured material, but requires significant changes to the consensus version to be discussed on talk; I don't suppose there's any suggestion that introducing rape—particularly "played for laughs"—wouldn't be a significant addition.{{pb}}Really though, this is an overblown content dispute which should have started with ''one revert'' each, and ended on the talk page. --]'']''] 21:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:"Never overtly stated... 'played for laughs' be a significant addition" - with John Landis, the director. {{talk quote|One of the executives was deeply appalled by a man being sexually molested by a gorilla. And I said you know, it's a joke and it goes by very quickly. But the first preview was very successful and it all went away. ''''}} | |||
| *:Feel free to amend the article on that basis. I'm certainly not interested in spending any more time on it. — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ===Followup=== | |||
| :In fact he is now editing in the Sock Puppet investigations page trying to start a sockpuppet investigation against myself and the other editor who have been reporting his sockpuppets! See; . --] 00:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I just want to say that, now that we've had an ANI thread on the subjeect of Gordon Liddy's feelings about portraying the romantic partner of a gorilla, I can die happy. | |||
| While we're on the subject, recites that {{tq|Prior to his departure from the FBI in 1962, Liddy sought admission to various bars.}} I'm curious to know whether this is meant to imply that Liddy had a , and whether this could have had any bearing on the whole gorilla romantic partner situation. ]] | |||
| ::Started a legitimate meatpuppet case against this user and his inseparable friend, ] The evidence against them is voluminous and compelling. He considers this "harassment." I am not a sock puppet. I am a different person who uses the same computer. If admins would bother to look beyond the IP address to my history of contribs, compared to Bryan's history of contribs, they would know that I am not a sock puppet. - ] 01:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Extremely Annoying situation == | |||
| :::Bryan, at the moment you are putting immense amounts of effort into being as disruptive as possible. The sad part is that you are a highly intelligent editor; stay within Misplaced Pages policy and your contributions will be heard and valued. But for now I have no choice but to support an extension of the original block. - ] 01:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | result = Blocked for one week. ] (]/]) 01:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| I reverted by ]. They then times for it. One of these was for "being shovel shenanigans" which I took as a ] and informed them of it. | |||
| ::::I just wish he would be honest about the fact that he is sockpuppeting. He's been caught at this now four times for six different sockpuppets now; | |||
| The rest escapes words for me. See these discussions. | |||
| ::::* {{user5|ClemsonTiger}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5|JohnnyCochran}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5|209.221.240.193}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5|ArlingtonTX}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5|Kynouria}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5|12ptHelvetica}} | |||
| ::::* {{user5| DP1976}} | |||
| ] | |||
| ::::Can we get this to stop somehow??? ] 01:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] ] | |||
| * It would appear that this matter has been concluded. Thank you. ] 02:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I've blocked {{vandal|38.119.66.207}} for , which I also reverted. ] 03:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| they also used a ] to continue to irk me. I hesitated to bring this to ANI, since they seemed new, and I didn't want to bite, but enough is enough. | |||
| :::WOW. That is upsetting. ] 04:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 00:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Well, that tears it. to the max! - ] 06:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == IP vandalism == | |||
| :::{{vandal|38.119.66.207}} is an open proxy, so I have reblocked for 5 years. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | result = Blocked. {{nac}} <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| This user: ] seems to be on a spree of Vandalism, which they are summarising in the edit summaries as 'reverting vandalism'. Example: ] <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small><sup>]</sup> | |||
| ::::Seems like it might have been him. On his talk page he dares us to "Call Sheriff Roscoe." :-( ] 20:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :including racist edits summarized as reverting racist texts. Example ] (]) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *Okay, he is at it again. Now he is emailing other editors using his ArlingtonTX sock puppet to smear me where I am editing other articles! Can we get the socks deleted so that they cannot be used in this fashion, please? Thanks! | |||
| ::The IP is already blocked. To OP: Consider reporting obvious vandalism like this at ]. – ] (]) (]) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == User Stationmanagerskidrow removing information on ] page == | |||
| {{hat|reason=Email from user.}} | |||
| <pre>Return-Path: <SRS0=D3aY=GY=wikimedia.org=wiki@bounce2.pobox.com> | |||
| Delivered-To: benburch@XXXXXX.net | |||
| Received: (qmail 3620 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2007 14:12:38 -0000 | |||
| Received: from lime.XXXXXX.com () | |||
| (envelope-sender <SRS0=D3aY=GY=wikimedia.org=wiki@bounce2.pobox.com>) | |||
| by mail24.sea5.XXXXXX.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP | |||
| for <benburch@XXXXXX.net>; 15 Jan 2007 14:12:38 -0000 | |||
| Received: from lime.XXXXXX.com (localhost ) | |||
| by lime.XXXXXX.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20884FA870 | |||
| for <benburch@XXXXXX.net>; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:12:58 -0500 (EST) | |||
| Delivered-To: benburch@XXXXXX.com | |||
| Received: from mail.wikimedia.org (mail.wikimedia.org ) by | |||
| lime.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCAD4FA79D for <benburch@XXXXXX.com>; | |||
| Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:12:54 -0500 (EST) | |||
| Received: from srv55.pmtpa.wmnet (unknown ) by mail.wikimedia.org | |||
| (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2FC1C0047 for <benburch@XXXXXX.com>; Mon, 15 Jan | |||
| 2007 14:12:30 +0000 (UTC) | |||
| Received: from srv55.pmtpa.wmnet (localhost.localdomain ) by | |||
| srv55.pmtpa.wmnet (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l0FECU5I031796 for | |||
| <benburch@XXXXXX.com>; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:12:30 GMT | |||
| Received: (from apache@localhost) by srv55.pmtpa.wmnet (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) | |||
| id l0FECUPG031795; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:12:30 GMT | |||
| Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:12:30 GMT | |||
| Message-Id: <200701151412.l0FECUPG031795@srv55.pmtpa.wmnet> | |||
| X-Authentication-Warning: srv55.pmtpa.wmnet: apache set sender to | |||
| wiki@wikimedia.org using -f | |||
| To: BenBurch <benburch@XXXXXX.com> | |||
| Subject: Misplaced Pages e-mail | |||
| MIME-Version: 1.0 | |||
| Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 | |||
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit | |||
| X-Mailer: MediaWiki mailer | |||
| From: ArlingtonTX <nittany16876@yahoo.com> | |||
| ] is repeatedly removing information about a recent incident involving a Jewish DJ at ]. They say that it is incorrect information, even though it is sourced. The name also states clearly that this is a company account. Lastly, they have continued this behavior even after being warned on their talk page. ] (]) 03:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I notice that you've been getting into a fight with BenBurch on the Henry Ford article. There is a "Suspected Sock Puppets" case against him and I encourage you to post your experiences in the "comments" section. | |||
| :User is now editing using ] ] (]) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| BenBurch and FAAFA are engaged in a campaign known as "POV pushing." They are extremely clever about it and they are very dangerous. If enough people band together, these two can be the subject of a community ban. | |||
| </pre> | |||
| {{hab}} | |||
| ::This is a content dispute and the article is being actively edited by many different editors. However, no discussion about the disagreements has occurred on the article talk page which is where this discussion should be happening. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :The header won't help, since the e-mail came through the e-mail user function, it is from the Misplaced Pages server. Blocking won't help either, since blocked users can still e-mail. I would advise those who receive the messages simply delete them. ] <sup>]</sup> 18:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| That article probably should be speedied as an A7 for not containing any assertions of notability; which obscures that Stationmanagerskidrow appears to have been edit warring on it with an undisclosed COI, and presumably was ]ing as , and if so violated 3RR as well. It's probably best for me not to take administrative action here tonight as I won't be around later/tomorrow to deal with any followups, but something should be done here beyond just saying "take it to the talk page." ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] page == | |||
| :The page was longer, but sourced (all but?) soley to the station's site and it's been trimmed down to what it is now. Given the repeated edit-warring by IPs I've semi-protected the page for two days for now. - ] <sub>]</sub> 07:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Please lock the season 6 page so that severe spoilers are not posted until AFTER the official broadcasts (in the US, or the week-later broadcast in the UK, i don't care which). There was an illegal posting of the first 4 episodes, and Misplaced Pages is being used to disseminate critical plot information. Thank you. ] 00:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::] and ] message added . I'm just about to make myself thoroughly ] by seeing what I can do about the ] article. ] (]) 🦘 09:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *], but I'll protect it anyway. ] 00:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Misplaced Pages is not censored to spoiling the plot of works of fiction. ''However'', reading the article's talk page the issue appears to be that people are submitting original research that is based upon their firsthand viewing pirated copies of the television episodes, violating both the copyright of the publishers of the television show and one of our core policies at the same time. ] 01:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == |
== Insults == | ||
| {{userlinks|Nadirali}} who was blocked for racism and personal attacks, and trolling has been editing under an IP address ]. He was so careless as to canvass support using his signature and graffiti-tag an article tag page him and meatpuppets revert warred on .<b>]]</b> 00:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Checkuser confirms this IP is the same one used by Nadirali. ]·] 02:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Personal information == | |||
| I'd like to report an incident related to ]. A person under IP already accused me of being "obsessed". Now someone (possibly the same person) . Please also see . I guess we can always agree to disagree with other people, but this is going a bit too far. Thank you. ] (]) 09:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{user5|203.135.21.45}} has added a desperate plea for help on several articles. See for instance and . This person requests "POLICTICAL SHELTER" in Great Britain, apparently following a trial against the authorities in Pakistan. He claims there are "MANY EXTRIMIST PLOTING AGAINST ME." This person ends the pleas with his bank account number, his address and his mobile phone number. Pakistan is not a terribly free country, and if his claims are true that extremists are plotting against him, should we protect him from these edits? Should they be removed from the article history? ]] <sup>No running, shouting or ] in ]</sup> 00:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Hello, Psychloppos. What action are you seeking to happen here? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :These edits do not make sense - he seeks political asylum and admission to the law school? Nah. This sounds like a variation of the Nigerian email scams. I would more fear for users who are guiled into giving this person money, account numbers etc. I will delete these, but I also suggest some administrator take further action. ] 03:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I have no idea which actions are warranted here. Maybe an admin could leave a message to this IP and this registered user and remind them that they should ] ? It would also be nice to remind them about ] and ]. Saying that I am "fuelled by an unhealthy obsession" or questioning my sanity do not seem to respect those guidelines. ] (]) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::This appears to be a shared IP, possibly covering much of Pakistan. Since these edits seem to have stopped, it's probably best not to block right now--if he comes back we can do a short block to discourage him. ] 03:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Nlkyair012 and LLM chatbots == | |||
| :::Removing those edits from the history would be a good idea - I only removed them from the article. ] 03:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *{{Noping|Nlkyair012}} | |||
| ::::Done. ] 04:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This editor has been constantly using AI chatbots to respond and write messages. They are a single purpose account for glorifying the ] caste using unreliable ] era sources, I and several other experienced editors have taken time and effort to respond to their endless queries and ] generated using ChatGPT. They have posted AI generated walls of text on multiple noticeboards such as ] and ] and including here , accusing me of vandalism. | |||
| Despite my repeated requests and even a final warning to them (including a request by {{ping|ActivelyDisinterested}}) they are still continuing to do it. Their messages are repeating the same argument again and again and are frankly just ] that bring up fictitious guidelines or misrepresent the existing ones. Several editors have told them that Raj era sources are not reliable yet they continue to ask for more evidence on why that is the case based on AI generated claims of supposed academic value or neutrality. This is getting very disruptive and taking up valuable contributor time to respond to their endless AI responses which take a few seconds to generate. I have alerted them about ] and ], I would appreciate it if someone could enforce a restriction on this user from at minimum caste area. - ] (]) 13:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user|WillyofToxteth}} == | |||
| :Hello @Ratnahastin, | |||
| I have blocked {{vandal|WillyofToxteth}} indefinitely, as a Willy on Wheels sockpuppet. The guy has recently been making some odd page moves (take a look at his contributions), but I can't figure out what he's doing. It does not appear he is replacing letters with similar characters, but whatever he is doing, it is certainly disrupting the pages. If anyone can enlighten me on what exactly this guy is doing, please do. In the meantime, I'm going to go revert his enigmatic page moves. -- ''']''' 01:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :To start with I should admit that I am sorry for all the inconvenience that I may have caused as a result of my actions. It was never my intention to take people’s time or skew the conversation in a certain way. I appreciate the core idea to contribute the thoughts to the Wiki and share it borne in mind the overall rules and policies of this program. | |||
| :I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site. Even when I was using AI for the grammar check or, for instance, to elaborate on some point in the text, I saw to my mismanagement that over the process we probably confused the readers and repeated the same information and thoughts, which I would never wish to happen again. From now on I will ensure that in the future the input which I provide to wikipedia fits the Misplaced Pages standard and is more personal. I will also not write walls of text and will not make assertations that do not have substantiated evidence in sources. | |||
| :As for subjects that concern the Raj and the sources from this period and the discussions we have had it seems that I have gone too far in demanding clarification for the same thing. That being the case, with the understanding that the consensus will be acknowledged, I shall not be inclined to reopen this discussion unless new substantiated evidence is produced. I don’t want to prolong the conversation or bring any more stress. | |||
| :I will strive to learn from my experience to be more productive in my interactions going forward. If there are other limitations or additional rules to which I have to stick to, I will receive them with pleasure. | |||
| :In the same respect, let me specially apologize for the inconvenience and thank all of you for bearing with us. That was why I wanted to remind all of us that we can and should keep collectively improving Misplaced Pages as a resource. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::This comment also has a typical LLM feel and contains meaningless statements such as "I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site" and differs substantially from , although GPTzero said this is human input. - ] (]) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::It seems human in that it contains some composition and grammar errors that I don’t think an LLM would produce. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 13:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Thanks for the reply sir, I can't explain how frustrated I'm feeling from this morning which this user made me experience <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::The time when I messaged Vikram banafar I was casual not formal and second of all your saying doesn't prove anything "and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style" that's a straight up false accusation and utter nonsensical point and 3rd point being that GPTzero stated that this is a human input then that's an human input end of the question. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::No it's really not the end of the story if GPTZero says "likely human". In fact I'd actively discourage people depending on tools like GPTZero in favour of their human senses ] than yet another computer program. And, frankly, what you're hearing from people here is we'd rather your casual, human, flaws-and-all style of writing over ChatGPT output "formal" report templates. They are doing the opposite of what you're looking for and have become disruptive. ] (]) 14:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Man you still wanna do this? @] also says this doesn't seems AI generated to him and he used his actual "Human senses" to lean that way <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Admitting that you have used AI for writing your comments and then saying that you have not used AI is not going to help your case. - ] (]) 14:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::You know what I think this is getting to the ] point. Having to tell somebody to have the basic respect of other editors to not subject them to text-walls of chatGPT garbage over and over again is a disruptive distraction from what we should all be doing. ] (]) 14:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::This ain't getting anywhere <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I really don't understand the problem. Cuz I literally also said many where that yes I used AI but for expanding and grammar correction <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::If this combative approach is your "casual" style, perhaps your use of AI and its over the top politeness was an attempt to mask it. In any case, I think you are ] but for caste glorification given your obsession with a certain sub-caste. - ] (]) 14:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::im not obsessed with a certain subcaste but am sure is obsessed with British Raj sources. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I don't think that's better. ] (]) 15:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Potential vandal trying to start edit war on the page for Frisch's. == | |||
| :He ''is'' replacing letters with identical-looking—but different—characters; you can tell when you check the actual URL of the moved pages. ] 01:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This user keeps using IP addresses in order to revert creditable information about who makes their tartar sauce. Please look into this user. IP Addresses used were 67.80.16.30, 66.117.211.82, and 216.24.107.180. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :Yes, I just noticed that... I was looking for the more obvious letter ''l''s versus number ''1''s, but could not find them. But yes... it appears something along those lines. -- ''']''' 01:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] inaccurate edit summaries == | |||
| ::I think that his purpose for using wikipedia, just disrupting wikipedia and getting banned. ] ] 01:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * Appears he is replacing ASCII with Unicode. ] 02:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * Yeb. ] ] 02:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| All but 2 of user's edit summaries are "Fixed Typo" when they are in fact partially updating statistical information on the page. Have left multiple messages/warnings on TP, with no response. ] (]) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user|71.231.107.188}} == | |||
| Could someone please block this user for just half an hour or so? He is on a wholesale deleting spree and isn't looking on his talk page, where I asked him politely to stop. I may be wrong, but at least I'd like to talk about it with him before he continues. — ] 02:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *I'm just wondering why it's such a problem that he was deleting dead links. An admin apparently rolled back all of his recent changes, so now all we have are a LOT of articles with dead links to yahoo news that he spent a lot of time deleting - there are no citations to be found, simply blue text that says "Yahoo news report" that leads to a 404 page. I totally understand the reasoning behind not deleting viable citations simply because the url no longer works, but it seems like what he was doing (at least, in the most recent edits) was valuable grunt work, and he was repaid by having his changes reversed wholesale.-]<small>]]</small> 06:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **First, there was no admin rolling back of his recent edits. Regardless, I must agree that the IP may be doing us a favor. I know for a fact that Yahoo! news links often expire quickly, over time, and do not contain original reporting. Thus, they tend not to be good references (and are discouraged from being used on ]). -- ''']''' 06:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ***You are right I noticed that a lot of a random sampling of edits had been reverted by the same editor, seemingly without looking at what the edit was, and I assumed it was a rollback. I was mistaken, I didn't look closely enough--]<small>]]</small> 06:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Removing a citation just because ''the URL'' no longer works is not "helping us". The URL in a news article citation should be regarded as a ''bonus''. The primary keys for news article citations are the byline, dateline, title, and publication. Those are what enable one to find any cited news article. , for example, is not "helping us". It is removing a citation of a ] article datelined 2006-11-28. Similarly, is removing a citation of an ] article datelined 2006-06-24. ''Helping us'' would involve not ''removing'' the citations outright but actually ''fixing them'' instead, so that they used the {{tl|cite news}} template with the byline, dateline, title, and publication all filled in.<p>Yes, the IP address editor is correct that people should not be providing bare URLs to news aggregators as citations. But ''no'', simply removing all of the URLs indiscriminately is ''not'' the way to improve the articles and to have them contain proper citations. ] 13:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *My specific question, which I also asked of the editor who reverted many of the anon's edits, is this: iff the citation is nothing more than an undated, untitled link to yahoo news which is now dead, is it wrong to delete that link? The other editor indicated that he believes the presence of the dead link indicates that a story once existed and therefore could be found again, which I can buy. Are you saying that dead links should remain until each one can be replaced by a "real" citation with date, byline, etc? I don't mean to drag this discussion out but I think it's worth clarifying, as many users might be inclined to delete dead links without thinking it through in this manner.--]<small>]]</small> 17:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **There's a Manual of Style guideline about that: see ]. Basically, if you can't repair or find a replacement for a dead reference link, leave the link and add a mention of when the link was found to be dead, since someone might eventually be able to find a hard-copy replacement, or the content might show up in the Internet Archive a few months later. --] 20:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **What makes you think that the URLs were undated? Read the URLs removed, in the two edits that I linked to, ''carefully''. ] 20:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] Semi-Protection == | |||
| == {{user|68.84.128.226}} == | |||
| Could someone please block this user. They have blanked warnings from their talk page about a dozen times in the past week. They have been warned not to delete warnings twice and they continue to blank them. | |||
| --] 04:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Update: User has been blocked for three hours. (Not enough in my opinion; I recommend taking such complaints to ] in the future; they seem more willing to block vandal-only accounts, like this one, indef. They're also faster, I think - this guy got in four more edits between the time reported here and the time blocked, 29 minutes later.) ''] '' | ] 03:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] was semi-protected back in 2019. Now that five years have passed, could the semi-protection be lifted? ] (]) 16:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == User WillyofToxteth == | |||
| :Ask at ] ] ] 16:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] has consistanting been vandalising pages. He did so to the talk page on ], and I don't know how to revert it, because I can't find the history! The history is of his move only, but the move was to the same page? | |||
| Can someone please assist, he has been blocked indefinitely, but some of his vandalised articles are still vandalised, I'm not sure how to get the talk page back on the WikiProject Baseball.. --] 05:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Fixed. ] 05:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Evan Sackett == | |||
| The article ] is currently up for deletion . Article was created by ], likely COI. Article about Sackett's website, ], was created by ], another COI. This article was prodded by me. Meanwhile, an anon IP, {{IPvandal|68.47.251.89}}, has been flitting among the three (two articles, one AfD). Anon edited ] in a "constructive way" but also added attack text to it about Sackett's sexuality etc. and has several times blanked the page's open AfD. However, anon also left a message on the Visual Circle claiming to ''be'' Evan Sackett and asking everyone to mind their own business about his articles. Anon is also going around to various other articles (such as one), inserting self-aggrandizing statements about Sackett, suggesting either anon really is Evan Sackett and Sackett has split personalities, or anon is engaging in rather complex vandalism. (Anon has also engaged in additional, childish vandalism of other articles, such as one.) The whole situation is a little weird and I am wondering if an admin or two could keep an eye on this business for a bit, in addition to blocking the anon IP. Thanks--]<small>]]</small> 05:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Oh, also note that User:C. Evan Sackett edited ] several times while the attack text was present but did not delete it, instead fixing typos and adding a relevant image. This is all very strange.--]<small>]]</small> 06:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Interwiki watch on 82.159.137.19/User:Mac needed == | |||
| * {{User|Mac}} {{S|17}}{{la|Misplaced Pages:Commons categories}}. (See Jan 9th) | |||
| * {{User|82.159.137.19}} {{S|3}} '''http://commons.wikimedia.org/Special:Contributions/82.159.137.19''' | |||
| As anom this editor left a | |||
| that are definitely wide of being useful or desirable on the commons, so I thought maybe he would benefit from a little extra 'help and oversight' from solicitous admins. I'll nudge him on this and ask him to clean up after himself. Sigh. Just like getting my youngest to use the clothes hamper! Best! // <B>]</B><font color="green">]</font> 06:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Renumbering of mailing list posts == | |||
| Apparently, incidental to the installation of the new mailing list server, the posts in the archive have been renumbered. Consequently, most if not all existing links to mailing list posts bring up the wrong post, ''e.g.'' . | |||
| ] Co., ] 06:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Administration request== | |||
| Could you please ban ] for a very long time for what he's been doing on ]? Also view the talk page to find out more as to "why". I'm to the point now that I really wish he'd die or go away, but I know he won't. His acrimonious pedantry will not stop, and while I've had my share of ignoring ] and ] this guy just takes the cake. —] 06:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :This is a relatively straightforward, if heated, content dispute that has reached high levels of incivility on both sides. I might humbly suggest that all involved take a day off from editing this article rather than requesting blocks on each other.--]<small>]]</small> 07:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I've warned both warriors with a {{tl|3rr}}. If either reverts again tonight he should certainly be blocked. ] 07:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Not making any specific judgements since I don't know the particulars, but I wish people wouldn't lose perspective on things here. --]<sup>]</sup> 07:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| In failing to research this issue, you more definitiely prevent any user from improving the article, exactly what ExplorerCDT seems to want. Among other offensive edits and edit summaries, and go along way to demonstrating the persistent violations of ] that ExplorerCDT has spewed, and are only among the more egregious violations. I have repeatedly tried to make productive edits, provided sources, and reworded the changes in an effort to mollify ExplorerCDT, desperately trying to try to reach any form of consensus, to little avail. Any edits I have made to the article in the past 24 hours have been reverted. I sincerely regret any negative personal comments made in an effort to try to reach a compromise, but I am at wits end. I will step away from this article for now, in the hope that some mutual agreement can be reached. ] 08:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Opening an incident and stating that "I really wish he'd die or go away" seems to be a rather clear demonstration of the level of abuse, and refusal to cooperate, coming from ]. ] 08:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Latest JB196 sockpuppet== | |||
| ] has been inserting a link to JB196's original research and adding prod tags to non-US based wrestlers both of which are the usual M.O. of JB196 and his socks. ] 08:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Agreed, THAT'S a JB sock. I reinstated a couple prod's, and I suggest the others be looked at by folks as well... but.. well.. is he even trying? ] 08:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Can someone deal with this please? He's edit warring over insertion of the links in the first two articles now. As far as I'm aware any contributions made by JB196 and his socks are classed as vandalism and exempt from 3RR, but I'd rather not keep reverting to be on the safe side. ] 09:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I reverted it as well, could we get an admin to block the IP, at least for the short term? ] 10:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Helpful admin Guy blocked the IP earlier and removed the links from those articles and some others. A new anon IP has now accused Guy of vandalism and started . ] 16:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I've ] indefinitely for , , and generally not being here to write an encyclopedia. See also the deleted histories of ] and ] (which was ]). ]s, rotten ]es, and the like are invited. | |||
| On that note, I ] ]. Anyone else think a CheckUser would be a good idea? --] 09:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == User:Bryan1111 == | |||
| ]: Nonsense, abusing other users, see examples at ]. ] 10:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :He's already blocked, and I just protected his talk page. ] | ] 10:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Third time lucky? Is anyone going to block this vandal or not? == | |||
| Right, I've been patient and I've been polite and now I'm absolutely sick of cleaning up after every day. He creates throwaway accounts daily, sometimes several of them. He creates hoax articles which, if you look at them, are obviously hoaxes, yet are obscure enough that they hang around for months, and then he edits article after article with references to these hoaxes that stick around until those articles are TOTALLY WORTHLESS. I've been reverting after him since the end of December and I've documented everything I've seen him do here and it is ignored. Last night I even tried to get an emergency block on him when I saw him start editing and was told that because I hadn't warned him in the past week (I had, in fact, on the 9th) he couldn't be blocked. | |||
| I've posted here twice already and not got a response. If none of you can even be bothered to look at his record and block him, then I'm not sure I can be bothered to come on every day and clean up his shit. Block him, or don't; I don't care any more. ] 11:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I am currently blocking the vandal accounts, but with an open IP adress, he can just recreate accounts as he likes. I support an indefinite block of the IP, as all contributions from this IP seem to be related to the vandal creating TV series hoaxes mixed with a few credible TV series edits. '''Strong support of indef block''' of {{User|220.233.226.170}}. -- ] | ] 12:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::'''Support indef block'''. - ] 12:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::'''Support indef block''' too much of a future headache. ] 12:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've blocked the IP indefinitely. It seems to be a static IP, and this sort of thing cannot stand. ] 12:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Thank you *so* much. I do apologise for losing my temper, but I'm so happy he's blocked now. :) He seems to be on a broadband link which changes its address every couple of months - what should I do if he comes back? ] 12:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::If the IP changes every couple of months, then I think the blocks should be limited to four months or so to avoid blocking any legitimate contributors that share the IP (but have yet to contribute) or that receive the IP in the future. Also, as soon as the vandal's style is recognized on a new IP address, the four month block should be given immediately. -- ] 12:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Support''', good use of the banhammer. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 12:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *TotsTV again? Very much in support of saving time from being wasted by indef block.--] <sup><font color="green">]</font></sup> 13:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Support''' (Apologies for contributing to this delay but the case was too complicated for ], hence my request to move it to ] at the time). ]<sup>]</sup> 13:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==]/]== | |||
| I have nominated the above articles for deletion (regarding a deceased rapper and his unreleased album, they seem likely hoaxes or at best wholly unverifiable). ] is the originator and principal editor of both. Soon after the AfD was posted, this user blanked the AfD page and removed the AfD notice from Young Argo, while apparent single-purpose account ] did the same for Thug Invasion. I hope an admnistrator will consider appropriate notices for these editors and that eyes will be kept on the AfD (which, given the time lost when it was unavailable, I moved from January 13 to January 14). | |||
| == Disruptive, oft minority POV attemps to own Martin Luther article, usually without productive discussion at talk page == | |||
| Please note the following edits by User:Justas Jonas: | |||
| *Predominantly edits one article: | |||
| *Labels welcoming messages on their user-talk page as clutter, spam and unnecessary material: & . | |||
| *Makes unfounded personal attacks against another user and criticizes other user's edits with an air of superiority. Please see various edit summaries at and ]. | |||
| *May post under an IP address to emphasize User:Justas Jonas' point: . | |||
| *Resembles a previously banned user, per another editor of Talk:Martin Luther: . | |||
| *One recent edit war is over the size of and content of the article's opening image infobox. Please see . | |||
| *Claims that another user's edits cause formatting and/or layout problems, when no-one else experiences such problems. Please see again. | |||
| *Appears to ignore input and request for correspondence from much more senior editors. Please see and . | |||
| I'm sincerely looking forward to hearing options on how this can be resolved. '''''Most if not all other editors of the article are working together to gain FA status for this article.''''' If I am indeed the only one in error here, or if you have some constructive feedback for me, please kindly advise. ] 13:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree with Keesiewonder's analysis of the situation. This new user account is acting disruptively, and is obviously not a new user account. I agree with this new user that the article requires across-the-board condensation, and also that in the past things have gotten talked to death. However, simply coming in and slashing and burning is not the answer. --] 15:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Perhaps another user to add to the set: . | |||
| ::So, one question I have is do the following four accounts all stem from one person:<br> | |||
| :::*]<br> | |||
| :::*]<br> | |||
| :::*]<br> | |||
| :::*]<br> | |||
| ::I do not have any personal experience with the last; I do with the first three. ] 17:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Perhaps a couple more: ] ; ] ] 23:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::] anybody? ] 04:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == linkspam - makeminemarvel.com == | |||
| The owner of makeminemarvel.com - which is an entirely non-notable blog is spamming various marvel comic pages from various ip addresses including one. He has been doing this for 3-4 months and refuses to stop. He takes no notice of comments or warnings left on the various ip pages. I emailed him directly and he indicated that he has no intention of stopping. Can it be added to the spam blacklist? --] 15:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Requested. --] 15:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Callous personal attack == | |||
| I am appalled to see this comment ] by {{user|JFBurton}}. Read the previous part of the talk page to put it in context, this user appears to have a history of personal attacks, but this particular case is totally insensitive. --] 15:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Please see ]. --] 15:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::One problem: that page is inactive. Oh, and look at . --] 15:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ''This process has been discontinued.'' ??? --] 15:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Wow. That happened quietly (though I don't entirely disagree that it was mostly abandoned). --] 16:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::It was anything but quiet. I kept noticing it no matter how much I tried to avoid it hehe. As for the attack, it is a bit uncivil, but hardly a ''Callous personal attack''. I suggest you give the user a civility warning. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::You mean ''another'' warning. Check his block log. --] 16:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Your right, I went through the users contribs and found many cases of incivility, I also scanned his userpage history and found the user was fully warned, but simply removed the warnings. I have blocked JFBurton for 4 days. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| "Its about time you had a weekend off, its all you ever seem to be doing(going on wikipedia)." This is an appalling, callous, personal attack? And people here are taking this seriously? OK, it's painful because of its English, but really... it's not even particularly uncivil. I've had such comments on my Talk page many times, but I've never gone blubbing to Mummy over them. This is exactly why ] was killed off — hypersensitive complaints that were too often just a way of edit-warriors trying to get their own way by the back door. | |||
| I've just gone through the latest page of his contributions; I found one clear case of incivility, and one of brusqueness in the face of page-blanking vandalism. Could you post here the diffs of all the offences that warrant a ''four-day'' block? I'm inclined to lift the block as unwarranted, both in principle and in its extent. --] (]) 16:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::The diffs are posted on his talk page(The most recent example only minutes ago since this thread was created), just a few recent examples I am sure I could have found more. This user has also been warned and blocked for personal attacks before, but simply removed the warnings. I was tempted to double the previous block to make it two weeks, but I felt 4 days would give a greater chance of the user being productive in the future. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've just looked at the dreadful personal attack that you think supports a four-day (or even two-week) block: | |||
| :"Ok Then, but that comment was mearly an attempt to improve mine and FisherQueen's relationship. Its not my fault if I feel she spends a little bit TOO much time on here. Maybe she has some sort off addiction, thats OK. Perhaps she should go and see a couciller or something, you may need it in this sad time of your life. ] 15:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)" | |||
| Now, it's more genuinely uncivil than the one that started off this thread, but it's hardly severe. The othjer diffs | |||
| Could other editors offer their opinions on this? It seems to me that the block is dubious in itself, but its length isn't justified by any stretch of the imagination. --] (]) 17:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I mostly agree with Mel Etitis. ]<sup>]</sup> 17:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Each action on it's own may not justify a block, but those examples are all from the last couple days. This user has made no indication that he is willing to follow our civility policy as is evidenced by his removed warnings and previous blocks. The fact that the most recent incivility was moments after being asked to be more civil was the clincher. 4 days does not seem like a long time for a fourth civility block, this user already received a week long block for the same thing in December. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 17:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I am not too attached to this decision of mine, and will respect consensus. I just ask that any admin that unblocks this user watches him. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 17:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Even if they had all been made within five minutes they're just not uncivil enough even to warrant more than a very mild "be a bit more polite". I'll lift the block then, and happily watch him to make sure that he doesn't make an idiot of me. --] (]) 17:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :So your of the opinion that it does not matter how much a person is uncivil as long as the aren't too uncivil at any one point(correct me if I am misinterpreting)? I tend the think that quantity bares some relevance. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 17:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I don't think that any of the comments counts as genuine incivility (well, maybe one was slightly uncivil, and another was too brusque, but was a reaction to page-blanking). One hundred uncivil comments doesn't add up to incivility, though, no. Nor do one hundred slightly impatient comments, or even one hundred snappy but not really uncivil comments. At least some (at least most, in fact) of the diffs should be cases of clear and genuine incivility. they're not. --] (]) 17:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::If I may add a little context... the reason the comments he made are rather incivil is that they follow immediately upon my note on my talk page that I was taking a little time to grieve over my grandfather's death. The reason that I was particularly troubled by the comment is that they follow a history of sniping against me, including , , , and (when I was not the person who deleted the 'administrator' tag from his userpage). is the first time I met him and the only time that I actually did anything to a page he was working on, when during randompage patrol I reverted an inappropriate edit he made. | |||
| ::I am not asking on my own behalf to have him blocked, but offering context to what made his most recent edits so unpleasant- not that I am oversensitive but that he took advantage of my grief for my grandfather's death to take the most recent in a series of unpleasant comments to or about me. | |||
| ::I have simply asked him to stop posting on my talk page (unless it's needed for encyclopedia-creating purposes) and not to edit my userpage. And that's really all I want from him. -] (]) 17:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::'''Endorse''' a 4-day block, although that is no longer in effect. The diffs FisherQueen put forth make it obvious that he is ] and ]. I would support a longer duration block and a possible ban if he continues this behavior. If he stops, I will let bygones be bygones as long as FisherQueen is okay with that. ] 17:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Yes, I'm okay with that- I don't think I have ever asked for him to be blocked, although he has several times been blocked for attacks against me. If he is actually willing to stop, that's all I want from him. -] (]) 17:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've tried repeatedly to post a reply here, but keep getting blocked by the spam filter. I've left messages at Buton's Talk page, FisherQueen's Talk page, and ]. --] (]) 17:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've blocked this user twice in the past, for the diffs shown by FisherQueen. My primary concern is his targeting of FisherQueen. While the comment was certainly callous and insensitive, we do not block people for lack of manners. However, we do block people for continuing to harrass and stalk users, which is what I feel this was. I will continue keeping an eye on this user. -- ] 18:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Yup. A textbook case of how a series of incivil comments that directed to another user in a different context might not be concerning, but here certainly count as disruption. Perhaps this indicates a less legalistic way forward after the PAIN deletion. That is, to take much more into account the reaction and desires of the user who is the target of the incivil comments. If they are iron-skinned veterans who are willing to brush it off, then no disruption has occurred, so no need for admin action. | |||
| :But the flipside is that users who are affected by incivil comments that perhaps for most people are not that severe, should also have the right to claim that such comments are disrupting their ability to edit the encyclopedia, and should be protected. - ] 19:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I think the 4 day block was overkill, but now that JFBurton is aware he should refrain from stirring the pot, and just leave FisherQueen alone, any further snarky comments should be met with zero tolerance. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 11:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I reduced the block to 48 hours. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| About to head to bed, so cannot follow up. Can more admins please look into ], ], ], ] and ]? Thanks. – ]] 15:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :since I was involved in this too (as one of the admins deleting the many recreations of ]) here's my 2 cents: This Lee guy wanted to promote his non-notable himself here, ignoring 4 deletions by different admins. The last admin salted the page and protected it to avoid recreation. Apparently, that got him upset, and after the usual calls for desysopping and banning , and bitching how wikipedia failed , he decided not to fund us anymore. On pretty much every talk page post he mentions his legal council, but so far I think that is not enough of a threat to validate a ban. There was a bit of confusion regarding ]. Due to his unclear wording the closing admin though he wanted the article deleted, whereas I though he wanted the protected template to be deleted so that he can recreate the article. IMHO the deletion was and is just. If he does not come back I would say the problem is solved. -- ] | ] 16:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| The comment is sorta of interesting ''If Lee must re-pay the publicist to load the above article under a different name,'' --] 16:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Some of that stuff belongs on BJAODN. ]|] 22:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Shouldn't there be some sort of block for legal threats? This is at least disruption, and is certainly to protect Misplaced Pages, not simply punitive. -]<sup>]|]</sup> 23:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Oh noez, he won't give us money no mores!!!111one ] 00:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *In (Read to the very bottom.) and this person has stated a clear and unambiguous intention to pursue legal action. Per our ] policy, the editing privileges of {{user|Nyslee}} and {{user|Lee Nysted}} should be revoked, until either the legal threat is wholly retracted or legal proceedings are appropriately completed. ] 11:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==]== | |||
| User goes by many different handles but has a single purpose: to upload copyright images to ] and ]. This has been on-going for months, the user comes and goes under different names, but the images are the same - he uploads them, edit wars for weeks while they go through the deletion process, then re-uploads them again and starts over - same images every time. I'm sure a block of this particular account will help, but he will just login from other accounts. Would article protection also be appropriate until the images are deleted? Or can the images be speedy deleted instead of waiting the 14 days? Any suggestions or help appreciated. -- ] 16:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I blocked the user 24 hours for edit-warring. The images will be deleted in a few days if source info isn't provided, and I don't like to protect articles if the problem is just one user. Keep us posted if s/he resurfaces under another handle. Also, have you tried a ]? | ] <small>]</small> 18:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user|24.22.86.151}} == | |||
| Could someone please block this user. They have been warned and blocked before, but continue to remove content from an article. We've discussed the content on the talk page, and reached a consensus about the wording. But this IP user keeps removing the section in question. You can see from the history that several editors have to continually revert his/her edits. Thanks! --] 16:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Blocked for 48 hours. ] 17:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Block review == | |||
| {{vandal|Messymike}} has introduced sufficient hoaxes that I no longer believe a word e says about anything. I have indef-blocked the account and am working through the articles he's created under this account or as a sock - {{vandal|Jamesbourne11}}, {{ipvandal|86.142.87.90 }}, {{vandal|PRodger}}, {{vandal|Johnbarnes}}, {{vandal|Simondukes}}, {{vandal|Sd92}}. | |||
| Articles include: | |||
| * {{la|Phil Dukes}} | |||
| * {{la|Philip Dukes}} | |||
| * {{la|Lincolnshire Pallets}}, supposedly owned by Phil Dukes, AfDed and endorsed, request registered by Jamesbourne11. | |||
| * {{la|Rietveld Pallets}}, stated to be in Lincolnshire and owned by Phil Dukes but the firm is a Netherlands company and in any way likely not a ] candidate | |||
| * ] (only entries were all owned by Phil Dukes, all deleted) | |||
| * {{la|Salsim}} | |||
| * {{la|Nonotech}} | |||
| * {{la|DD Fine Dining}} | |||
| * {{la|Sotby}}, real place but the entire history is from this hoaxer so no way of spotting what is disinformation and what is not. | |||
| Main account and all socks blocked indef, IP blocked temporarily, balance of remaining contribs needs checking for validity. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I have restored ] but removed any unverifiable content. ]<sup>]</sup> 18:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Is there any connection to ]? ]|] 23:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: Yes, listed and blocked. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 00:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Possible sockpuppeteering/meatpuppeteering of Users: Olivierd/Benio76/Zelig33== | |||
| I would like to report suspected sockpuppeteering/meatpuppeteering of the following users: | |||
| *] <small><sup>] ]</small></sup> | |||
| *] <small><sup>] ]</small></sup> | |||
| *] <small><sup>] ]</small></sup> | |||
| This all started in the midst of an edit war over the ] page. During the edit war, Benio and Zelig appeared as new users, with positions and wording strangely similar to those of Olivierd, and starting acting in cohort to push their own radical changes to the article. The timing of their edits to the article as well as their activities often tend to be in the same time windows (please see contribution lists for each user account), and both Benio and Zelig seem to be single-purpose accounts for editing the ] article and have continued the | |||
| battle both in the ] and in the ensuing ]. | |||
| Should these prove to be meatpuppets (or sockpuppets), the multiple IDs may have been used to circumvent 3RR policy on ] (although I would consider this last stale and of lesser importance). The really important part is that the three IDs are now acting totally in concert, holding the same intractable positions and generally disrupting mediation. I would appreciate someone looking into whether these should be considered meatpuppets (or maybe even sockpuppets) so that appropriate remedies (as per possible violation of ]) can be brought to the situation and some normalcy can be recovered in the mediation efforts (the emdiation page is getting totally out of control). | |||
| Please feel free to let me know if you need anything further or more specific in the way of evidence (I'm new at this kind of reporting) and I will be glad to supply whatever is needed. Thank you for your attention.--] 18:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Oh_I_give_up_Grrrr == | |||
| Is there some trick to finding an old AN/I archive that I'm missing, especially given a date and diff . This section is of interest in my attempt to smooth over friction between {{Ut|71Demon}} and images 'issues' with PD tags, etc., and in particular Admin Carnildo, but I can't seem to find the section title in archives where Jimbo actually made a post on the point ratifying the strict interpretation of 'Press photos' being replacable versus 'Fair Use'... should be in Archives circa 145-147, posts spanned several days. The section title is 'Admin Act seems questionable'. {{I2}}Any tips that will save me the hour plus search like this going forward would be gratefully appreciated, as would the link to this section! Thanks // <B>]</B><font color="green">]</font> 18:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ;Wishlist: for you tech types with script knowledge: | |||
| Would be nice if an archived page had a BOT built record of the days spanned by the archive... first post to last and then annoted that in the page top prominently. {{I2}}Wonder if a BOT could be built to tack on section titles into a running list of lists, preferably with a working link to the proper AN/I archive as the section title, I guess. Right now there is no easy way (for me at least) to pin down 'where' an old matter in the archives might be, even if I know the approximate time it happened. That would give only one place to search for a section title, not waiting for big pages to slowly load, check there, check the dates manually, move to the next, etc. {{I2}}This kind of thing must affect all of you now and then, so kick it around. Help! <g> // <B>]</B><font color="green">]</font> 18:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Is the thread you were looking for? Found it by searching the site with Google. ]]/] 19:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :To answer your original question, such a bot already exists (]) — unfortunately, it doesn't work on AN/I or similarly large archives (see "Caveats" section). —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 19:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *You could try google? , does that help? ] <small>]</small> 19:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Yeah -- Thanks much, all. My google skills have needed an upgrade for a while now, I guess. I stopped playing on the web much in the mid-ninties till this project came along. Sigh. I hadn't learned how to make a search site specific yet. Thanks... I bookmarked that. {{I2}}But how in blazes did that end up in Archive 61, vice 140's??? Isn't there any attempt to keep the BOT batching things in sequential archive pages? That's quite a jump from other matters filed on the same day in mid-November... and now indicates that premise was all wet!!? Yikes! No wonder I have trouble locating stuff here! {{I2}}"Thanks for the compliment {{Ut|Bbatsell}}", he says tounge in cheek, "I didn't think of it as 'Original thinking'", he adds grinning. I'll query {{Ut|HighInBCBot}} about a modified version for indexing those. That looks like a better approach than keywords database construction. Thanks and Best regards // <B>]</B><font color="green">]</font> 05:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::You mixed up ] archives (~70 currently) and ] archives (~170 currently). However, I fully agree on your other points (i.e. that archiving and maintenance methods of those boards ought to be improved). How? I dunno... ]<span style="font-size:70%;">]</span> 17:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I have to write a function that splits huge indexes into multiple pages, then the bot will work. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| If you have a diff starting the thread, call up the page history of AN/I, click to 'next 50', reset the offset parameter (which takes the form year-month-day-hour-minutes-seconds; eg. 20070115123633 is 12:36:33 on 15/01/2007) to the date of the first post (here 09/11/2006; ie. 20061109) and load the page history. Switch to something like 500 edits in the history, click "previous 500", and then search for the bot archiving ("archiv" usually works). In this case, that narrows it down to archives 60 and 61. Search in those pages for the thread title. Turns out it's in archive 61 ]. Or you could just Google, as Steve block said. When carrying out any search, either Google or within pages, watch out for changes in thread title, like corrections of typos. ] 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ]'s comment on my talk page. == | |||
| Ref: ]. | |||
| Incident started when Monkeybreath and an IP editor both violated 3RR at the article strip club (]). He then left a comment that's borderline on Personal attack on my talk page. I've just left him a message on his talk page ], but I figure I'd just report the incident in case it gets escalated. -] | ] 19:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *]. I do not like what he said, since it isn't even an apology really. -] | ] 19:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :User has been indefblocked for being an abusive sockpuppet. Endorse the block. —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 20:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Complex vandalism and redirects== | |||
| Back in November ] edited an article about a , claiming his real name was actually "Tim Burton" and changed his place of birth and residence from America to the UK, then moved it back to a slightly different variation of his . All seemed well, until ] decided to move it back to "Tim Burton (Village People)", and as you can see from his user page he claims to be related to . I can find absolutely no reliable sources for his name being Tim Burton, and have moved the page to ] which is the way it is spelt on the . As a result of all this there are now a couple of probably useless redirect pages which could probably do with deleting -], ]. Thanks. ] 21:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Ahem ... how do you like this IP's edits? == | |||
| Hi. It appears {{vandal|74.192.112.200}} is changing the statement "... is one of 42 entirely ]" to "... is one of 45 entirely ]" in a ]. Being rather clueless as to the truthfullness of this statement, I choose to report this here for review. <small>(Oh, and ''please'' advise him or her to get a bot account ...)</small> '']'' 21:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :It's 46 according to this website: . —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 21:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::The exact number changes every year depending on "local option" election returns. The list cited is from February 2005 and there were several county referenda in 2006. I haven't located an up-to-date list online but perhaps the anon is from Texas and working from one. ] 21:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I'll go and welcomeanon the IP, then; they seem to be acting in good faith. And thanks for the knowledge, BTW :). '']'' 21:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Spammer == | |||
| After repeated warnings, {{user3|70.238.56.25}} continues to put porn spam links on ] (their only contribs, ever). — <span style="text-decoration: none;">] <sup>] ]</sup></span> 21:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * Blocked. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Vandalism on Misplaced Pages: Bullet == | |||
| Under History section the following was left, | |||
| "julio is your daddy and the inventer of everything you know " | |||
| I am unable to edit. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 21:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> | |||
| :Thank you for reporting this - another user already the sentence in question. I'm not sure why you were unable to edit it, seeing as the article isn't protected and you aren't blocked. What happened when you clicked the "edit" button? ] 21:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == 76.188.15.44 == | |||
| User 76.188.15.44 has vandalized the ] article twice, the ] article once, and the ] article once. All the articles have just been fixed, but I figured that some action should be taken, since this user has vandalized three articles four times in the last two days. | |||
| <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 22:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> | |||
| :You can report such vandals to ] for quickest action. Generally, you'll probably want to warn them first: see ]. Thanks for the help. ]<sup>]|]</sup> 23:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Sorry, this was my first time reporting vandalism. Thanks for the tip! ] 03:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Use of a user's legal name in an edit summary by ] == | |||
| I noticed on my watchlist due to the apparent use of someone's legal name in the edit summary. I checked the user page to see if this user had voluntarily revealed their name, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Is this the right place to report this? Or is there a privacy noticeboard? ] 22:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I notice that {{user|Terminator III}} has also removed several recent warnings from his talk page: one for and for violating ]. ] 22:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::It looks like that needs to be oversighted (you can request that be done through the e-mail address at ]). ] <sup>]</sup> 23:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::The previously ] used to make the same claim in certain places. And it would appear that and like to edit the same articles. ] ] 00:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Jacob Peters evading ban == | |||
| Now we're back with {{IPvandal|69.110.136.243}}: see , which is a bit of a give-away. This IP has coninued trolling on ]. ] <sup> ]</sup> 22:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Yet another IP sockpuppet of {{user|Jacob Peters}} == | |||
| {{user|69.110.136.243}} just to ], reverting to an identical edit made by the now-banned sockpuppeteer extraordinaire {{user|Jacob Peters}} (see for comparison). Just to cement the case, the IP also and requested an unblock. It seems this IP is pretty clearly being used by Jacob Peters to circumvent his ban - reporting it here for appropriate admin intervention. ] 22:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Oops... just got reported by someone else as well. Sorry for the redundancy. ] 22:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Pie vandal == | |||
| I was referred here to report information re: the pie vandal, so I assume this is what I'm supposed to do. Basically, a user is editing primarily music-related articles and vandalising them, usually using the edit summary "pie." His edits typically involve inserting the name Michael Alfred Montalbano, or some variant, into the text. These three IPs have been used for this purpose in the article ] and have also edited other articles in a similar manner: {{user|172.144.143.60}}, {{user|207.69.139.12}}, and {{user|207.69.137.36}}. I'm not sure exactly what's to be done about it, if anything. Thank you for considering this information. - ] 22:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Just a note that pie has now struck again as {{user|207.69.139.6}}. I'm guessing this is a range of IPs accessible by some dialup network or another? ] 05:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user| 65.32.231.232}} == | |||
| This user has been making personal attacks towards myself and other editors for several months in the edit summaries. He's been warned once, but blanked out the warning along and continued with the personal attacks. ] 23:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : I might also add that {{user|65.32.230.68}} (who's been banned before) appears to be the same person. So his IP is from the 65.32.x.x range. ] 23:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: (non-admin) I would support a 24h block in these circumstances; if afterwards the IP shows no sign of stopping, increase the block length. '']'' 23:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==More fun with Primetime== | |||
| ] has serious problems taking a hint. | |||
| *{{User|Tfg3}} - more copyvios. | |||
| *{{User|T.E.S.G }} - retaliatory vandalism (massive text dump and shock images, including his talk page: you HAVE been warned). | |||
| --] | ] 00:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Both have been blocked pending the results of the ]. --''']]''' 00:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Group-Office (third nomination) == | |||
| :'']'' | |||
| I'm about to do my nanna - Can someone please look over my contributions and redact if I'm being an arse?<br/> I'm going to go have a bex and a lie down. <br/><font color="black">]</font> 01:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Oh geez. Looks like the AFD has already been swamped with ]. It's gonna go down as no consensus/keep unless the closing admin chooses to disregard the canvassed votes. ] 01:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I crossed out some ILIKEIT votes but you kind of did act too quickly. It's not a big deal if the encyclopedia is messed up for a while. Process ran its course three times, you probably should have waited a month or two. ] ] 02:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :He did wait a month - six weeks, in fact. The ] was 4 December, a procedural nomination no less (which always suck, giving no reason for why the article ought to be deleted), following a faulty DRV review which allowed numbers to subvert policy. The article got kept by weight of I LIKE IT numbers, with a bunch of votes saying 'notable' without ever providing evidence. The last proper evaluation of its notability, verifiability and encyclopaedic reliability was the first AFD, which ended up with the article being deleted. I don't think it's unreasonable to re-consider whether this article should exist. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 10:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I just noticed that {{user|Peekablue}} has tagged a number of images as {{tl|PD-self}} which do not appear to be self-created images, including ], ] and ]. I have posted a message to his talk page, but addition, and more careful examination of his uploads would be useful. ] 01:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Repeated Personal Attacks, ] == | |||
| :*{{user|Charles8854}} | |||
| :*{{lu|Charles8854}} | |||
| Long term pattern of inappropriate behavior, personal attacks, and bullying. | |||
| * with ] tones. (second one ) | |||
| *Expression that Charles8854 is | |||
| *long diatribe in light of the "''Propaganda-Wars which are clearly manifesting on the eastern horizon''" | |||
| *Personal attack upon and | |||
| *passive-aggressive hostility towards an editor responing to first ] and while declaring ''Glory be to yaweh'' | |||
| *responds to incident report by | |||
| *responds to an '''already-answered''' request for mediation by ''''''! | |||
| *Calls David Duke's appearance at the Holocaust Denial convention an ''honorable thing'' and attacks another editor: | |||
| *Again seeks to | |||
| '''This guy needs to be stopped''' -- there is absolutely no evidence that he will do anything other than continue his bullying, rantings, and attacks. /] 07:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Although he certainly has a right to his opinions, his description of David Dukes's actions at the recent Tehran Holocaust denial circus as a "noble effort" is disturbing. ]|] 18:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I certainly don't wish to censure anyone's opinions, however i respectfully submit that his behavior writ large is disturbing. From name calling to attempts personal confrontation, this is exactly what will push people '''away''' from contributing to Misplaced Pages. This sort of behaviour (especially unchecked) hurts us all. /] 19:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ===Update and '''Immediate Block Requested'''=== | |||
| After being contacted by an uninvolved third party regarding his prior conduct regarding personal confrontations and/or legal action, ] has continued attacking anyone who questions his behavior. | |||
| * | |||
| *lengthy post with | |||
| * | |||
| This has gone on long enough -- it is apparent that Charles8854 is not going to listen to any reason from anyone, and the administrators now need to intervene. /] 02:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I have not read through everything here yet, but about 5 minutes of reading has me pretty convinced that ] has not yet seen (or perhaps is choosing to ignore) ] a soapbox.--] 02:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Perhaps so, but his wonton disregard for ] and ] in the face of multiple uninvolved editors offering counsel is habitual and intentional. There is no way that his repeated violation of two pillars can be taken as ]. /] 02:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I took onto myself to block him. I have blocked for far less than that.] 04:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Civility block for review == | |||
| {{userlinks|Light current}} has had a somewhat rocky history on Misplaced Pages recently. | |||
| After repeated warnings for incivility and a block last month for WP:POINT and personal attacks, I've blocked Light current for 24 hours for recurring recent incivility. (He has taken to calling a couple of editors he disagrees with 'Hippo' and 'schizoid', he's also taken to calling Chairboy 'chairy' after he gave Light current a warning.) | |||
| Because I have been involved in the imbroglio at the Ref Desk over appropriate standards for behaviour there, I may be in a position where there is a perceived conflict of interest. I therefore ask for independent review of this block. | |||
| Before this comes up in another post, I've also issued several warnings to {{userlinks|Hipocrite}} for repeated incivility. I'm getting rather tired of parties to the Ref Desk dispute engaging in petty behaviour instead of polite discussion, and I ''will'' continue to issue blocks as appropriate. ](]) 03:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Just following form here: Any ''particular'' thing he was been blocked for following the warning? Being marginally famaliar with this user's contributions, I have no doubt there are plenty to choose from, I simply mean was it an accumlation of small insults or was there a "clencher." - <font color="black">]</font> 03:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::The insults originally appeared on a number of other pages; the talk page warnings (er, the most recent ones) as well as Light current's response are in his talk page's history here: . Note that his response to the warnings was to repeat the insults and namecalling. | |||
| ::He's since removed the note I placed explaining the block from his talk page, and he's been working his way through his talk page removing the names. (He's also added a big, bold 'I CAN ONLY REPLY ON THIS PAGE AS I HAVE BEEN UNFAIRLY BLOCKED BY TEN OF ALL TRADES FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON' message to his talk page header.) ](]) 03:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :When he says "Hippo," I think it's just his, er, ] name for Hipocrite. I don't think he's calling anyone a ]. Same thing with "Chairy" for Chairboy. Annoying, but not a personal attack. (To clarify, I might be annoyed if someone called me Picaroony, but I wouldn't consider it a personal attack.) However, I have to agree, saying things like are blatant personal attacks. ] 03:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Following a quick review of his last couple hours of editing, I endorse the block. ] 03:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *:As Picaroony says, the shortening of names is probably not deliberately offensive, but if the users in question have indicated that they do not like these shortended appelations, then continuing to use them is rude. Accusing Fridayy of being schizophrenic is enough to push Lighty into needing a block to calm down and prevent any further incivility. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 10:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| No opinion on the block (other than perhaps surprise) since it was me he was called "schizophrenic". But, I continue to be concerned about erratic behavior from this editor. This is far from the first time we've seen him push the limits of tolerable behavior and then say he doesn't understand why he was blocked. If he wasn't doing useful article work, the answer would be obvious. Maybe he needs mentoring? ] ] 16:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *I do wonder how he pronounces "TOAT". --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 16:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **He says to rhyme with "boat", and I say "toe-att". (Also, he says "toMAHtoe" and I say "toMAYtoe", but let's call THAT whole thing off!) Here's my reasoning. Clearly he was not referring to '''T'''en '''O'''f '''A'''ll '''T'''rades, whom he calls "Ten". (I presume this is a Borg designation, like "Seven of Nine", rather than a step down from being a "Jack of All Trades".) Then, by analogy with "FOAF" ("Friend Of A Friend", "foe-aff", the ubiquitous source of urban legends), "TOAT" must mean "Trend Of A Trend", "toe-att", and he is discussing statistical derivatives, like the beginning of an upswing in the financial markets. Quite technical, and confusing to the uninitiated, but it shouldn't distress the lay readers, who can simply skip over that part. HTH. -- ] 21:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == User:VinceB == | |||
| Warned by Test4 (see ]) and several times blocked. He has now changed a citation from an academic journal (replacing "nationalist" by a weaker description, not mentioned in the cited article). This kind of vandalism is especially threatening to ]. ] suggested I post it here. ] 03:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Another Cplot sock == | |||
| The new user {{vandal|AmericaTheBeautiful}} has been posting rebuttals on the user pages of a bunch of suspected or confirmed Cplot sockpuppets. Can someone please checkuser and/or block them as yet another Cplot sockpuppet? —]<sup>] ]</sup> 03:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :<s>Could somebody protect his talk page. Cplot is, as usual, trolling it. --]] 03:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)</s> | |||
| ::Nevermind, already been done. --]] 03:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I'll give Cplot one thing, he or she is very persistent. Perhaps some more aggressive rangeblocking is in order? Cheers, ✎ <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ( ] • ] )</span> 04:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::How large a range would we have to cover, though? Has anyone determined that in past discussions? -- ] <small>(])</small> 04:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I believe he utilizes various ISPs that service the Chicago metropolitan area.—] (]) 04:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Makes one wonder if we really need Chicago, sometimes... it's a shame it appears that the abuse reports filed in the past haven't gone very far in dealing with the situation. ] <small>]</small> 06:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::He or she looks to be dodging between several ISPs. Abuse reports and a few solid rangeblocks may be in order. Cheers, ✎ <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ( ] • ] )</span> 04:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *{{vandal|Air Races}} | |||
| *{{vandal|SqueakySqueakyMouse}} | |||
| Same edits as one another to ]. I haven't really followed the Cplot thing, but this looks like it may be him. Is this his style? -- ] <small>(])</small> 06:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : I'm only familiar with his Misplaced Pages:-space and User Talk:-space edits. However, 9/11 is a big hot-button issue with him. —]<sup>] ]</sup> 06:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Well, ] has been blocked as a sock. Just look at the histories of those other articles they edited, and you'll see a lot of sock activity. The other just looks like a run-of-the-mill CT supporter at this point. <i><b>]</b>]</i> 06:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yea, I don't think squeaky is a sock. He doesn't seem at all like Cplot. --]] 06:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Anti-Hindu remarks== | |||
| I would like to know if such comments in user pages are acceptable particularly the claim that calling somebody a ] is an accusation (a view commonly held by ]s in ]). Had he said "I am offended if somebody calls me a Hindu" that would be different, but the term "accuse" is inherently offensive to Hindus.I'm sure that if similar statements were made against any other religion then the user would be immediately censured. | |||
| As background, ] was blocked for a week for being tendentious, disruptive in ]-] articles, making personal attacks and ethnic slurs against ] for which he got his talk page protected (see previous diff) and is involved in a dispute concerning meatpuppetry with a group of users who stand accused of tag-team edit-warring with Pakistani nationalist/Islamic Fundamentalist biases] 05:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| :Doesn't look at all acceptable to me. The "Countries that I consider threats to World Peace and Humanity" probably isn't great either, but it isn't nearly as offensive. -- ] <small>(])</small> 05:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Just as troubling as that his first edits after a week-long block for incivility and edit warring are incivility, is the fact that many of his other edits are , as well. I've reblocked him for two weeks this time. ]·] 06:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| He's on his ] now, claiming the existence of some secret lobby and claiming ignorance of the offensive nature of the statement on his userpage. Anyone? Usertalk protection? -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Can't we just get it over with and ban him? From his now conspiratorial rhetoric, it seems like he has absolutely no intention on benefiting Misplaced Pages. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Or, at least, indef block him? --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Honestly, that's getting to sound quite reasonable. Is there any good reason ''not'' to do it at this point, or at least issue some sort of heavy block? -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I don't mind anyone overturning my block for an extension. ]·] 07:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I think you are all jumping the gun a bit. First of all, as someone who seems to have appeared in ], I think this whole issue is being overblown. I didn't view those examples as personal attacks on me. My sense is that user ], who posted the first message above, and the admin, ], who earlier banned Szhaider for a week, might have the letter of the law on their side, but are ]. Here are bureaucrat ] and admin ]'s ] to the first week-long block of users Szhaider, ], and ]. Please also see admin ]'s responses ]. | |||
| Regards, ]] 23:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Agree with Dmcdevit's additional block -- ] 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::To mix anti-Hindu remarks with a beg to unblock is akin to shooting yourself in the foot while you are bleeding profusely. While the other side is not faultless, it does not entitle Szhaider to conduct retributive actions. The idea of indef-blocking him will not be conducted (at least by me) without strong community consensus, and no consensus has emerged of yet. So no worries about the non-impending ban, but Szhaider has to change his attitude, by blocks if necessary. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 00:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I think ] may have reacted emotionally because he felt cornered and helpless. I will give you some evidence below. Admin ] has been involved in edit-warring himself with Szhaider on the ] page. In this, ] and ] have joined Rama's Arrow on what certainly ''appears'' to be a tag-team effort. See from Jan 4, 2007 onwards. Let me give you a little background. Iqbal was a famous poet of ] who died in 1930 before British India was divided into the independent nations of ] and ]. However, it was he who first proposed the idea of a nation for the Muslims of the subcontinent (which later became "Pakistan"); consequently, he a big national hero in Pakistan, as well as their national poet; not to mention that Iqbal alway lived in the part of British India that is now Pakistan. Rama's Arrow and Co. were fighting with Szhaider over how to "label" Iqbal in the first sentence, with the former group wanting to call him an "] Muslim poet" (where ] is a disambiguation page whose first link is ], a country that Iqbal most certainly ''didn't'' belong to) and Szhaider wanting to call him a "Muslim poet of the ]" (where the subcontinent includes both India and Pakistan, ''i.e.'' the lands of British India). From my perspective (as a neutral observer as well as someone who has co-written the current lead for the ] page), Szhaider's characterization is more accurate. Please now look at Szhaider's ], followed by Rama's Arrow's with edit summary "rvv POV". Whatever Szhaider is doing, it is not vandalism (and hardly POV). That Rama's Arrow is aware that he is edit-warring is clear from his characterizing his "rv" as "fx link" to avoid a potential 3RR violation. Admittedly Szhaider is less savvy about using "NPOV" sounding language, but he is no more a vandal than the "tag team" is. | |||
| I feel that Rama's Arrow has violated his administrator's privilege by issuing a 1-week ban of an editor he himself was edit-warring with, especially in a situation where, to a neutral party like me, it is not at all clear (at least on the ] page) which party was more at fault. | |||
| Szhaider should be given a warning, but he should be unblocked after 24 hours. Alternately both Rama's Arrow and Rumpelstiltskin223 should be blocked for a week. I have myself battled Szhaider on various pages, but I think he is getting a raw deal and, concurrently, Rama's Arrow and Rumpelstiltskin223 are getting away scot-free. Regards, ]] 02:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Rama's arrow blocked for a solid administrative action? Ludicrous -- ] 03:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :He has been adequately warned by many editors. I know that the Indian-Pakistani conflicts on Misplaced Pages are often tense, but it is not a "get-out-of-jail-free" ticket. Nothing justifies his behavior. And considering that he had been blocked once before, I'm sure he knows that his current behavior is not appreciated by the community as a whole. I don't condone the incivility others may have perpetrated at Szhaider, but there is a point where you just have to cool down, take a break, grow a thicker skin, swallow your anger, and go edit somewhere else. I'm already willing to drop the indef-block suggestion if he would only change his behavior. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 03:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Help? == | |||
| Hi, someone keeps harassing me and changing my user page... and I have to keep changing it back... what can I do? (I'm kinda new to wikipedia, but I've used it before)--] 06:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :It appears that you are removing valid warnings that were placed on your talk page. This isn't agaisnt the rules, but it is usually considered to be bad unless you are ]. I'd say just let it stay on your talk page and shrug it off. --]] 06:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Though I will say it wasn't very civil for the continued replacement of the warning either. --]] 06:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::There's nothing incivil about it, he's clearly a disruptive force. ] 07:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::It's only a tragic misstep by a newbie, not a calculated insult by a troll. Do read ], please. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I'm with Physicq2. Those who placed the warnings should read both ] and ], perhaps ] and ]. We don't go around harassing newbies here. '']'' 07:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::He was told not to delete the warning, and I'll assume ] and ] are directed toward the offending user. ] 07:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Um, no, ] and ] are directed to both of you. You (and for the matter, he) are not free from fault here. But this is trivial. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::So what if he was told so? There's absolutely nothing wrong with him erasing warnings on his own talk page; there's no policy against it. -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Right you are, and after Wildnox's initial response, I'd really like to make sure there's no room for misunderstanding here. It's the editors who have been edit warring with Tommy Oliver over his page who are "the offending users". It's a common misconception that it's appropriate to try to force users to keep some kind of brand of shame on their pages, or to force them to archive. (The History is an archive in itself.) Please see "User space harassment" in ]. (Not a good idea to assume that suggested reading has to be about your opponent's missteps, much better to actually click on it.) Also a number of threads formerly on ], e. g. and . The templates about not removing warnings, and the block threats for doing it, are for anonymous vandals, not for cases like this. Everybody, please do avoid obsessing about what you would like to see on other people's talkpages. Just leave them alone. Do not harass. ] | ] 08:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| ==Two flood vandals== | |||
| Two vandals spamming text at changes of over +1,500,000, both created at the same time. | |||
| *{{vandal|No problems.}} | |||
| *{{vandal|CTyn}} | |||
| Any more of these flood vandals popping up right now? --]] 07:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :"At changes of over +1,500,000"? Pardon my abject stupidity, but may you please clarify? --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: These users made additions of over 1.5MB to the pages. Essentially flooding with garbage. —]<sup>] ]</sup> 07:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :No others that I can see right now. <i><b>]</b>]</i> 07:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == TV series vandal == | |||
| He's back, now editing from 220.233.227.249 - blocking his IP addresses plainly isn't going to stop him. BTW, what should I do with the ever-increasing section at ] - presumably it shouldn't just stay there indefinitely? ] 07:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == RW again == | |||
| Would someone please take a look at ]? I blanked the User page after the posting of a legal threat, and blocked the user indefinitely. He's upset because googling his name brought people to his user page which had a sockpuppet notice that was posted by ]. I'm not using his name here, so that future googling doesn't bring him to this discussion. ] removed a similar threat from ]. I'd like the personal attacks of me removed. I'd appreciate if someone else got involved in this as I have a past history with this user, and he has and will react negatively to anything I do. Thanks. -- ] 07:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I have removed the personal attacks and protected the page. --<sup>]</sup>''']''' ('']'') 07:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] and quotes == | |||
| ] keeps adding large quotes after I have rewritten the article on ] (). Large portions of text quoted text should be rewritten per ] criterion #1. --] 08:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *You have a content dispute with another editor. Discuss it with xem on the talk page of the article. ] 12:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Independent of the content dispute, I'd be happy to have input from admins on the extent to which medium-sized quotes, clearly identified as such, are acceptable; anyone? ] 21:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] and ] == | |||
| Some (copy and paste the URL) are targeting ] and possibly ] for vandalism. I've already whacked their ]. Shoot on sight and sprotect as necessary. I need my beauty sleep. ] --] 08:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == spam sites need to be blacklisted == | |||
| This bot bursts out spam every now and then via different IPs. See ] contribs: and . The sites are poldow.com, nbaoh.com, nobelpr.com, npcart.com, nobmer.com, and maybe more (possibly brainparad.com and nobel-winners.com). Can you blacklist these spam sites? ] 09:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * You need ]. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 13:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Please boot Mobile 01== | |||
| {{user5|Mobile 01}} | |||
| I am building a case against Mobile 01 here: ]. The user has created "dupe" articles to avoid a protected page ]. Another third party feels he is a sock of LucaZ. He has violated ] called me a dictator. I am frustrated that this user has not been blocked yet. I am spending hours trying to undue his damage, being very careful not to violate ] or ]. I am building this page about him. There are at least 4 other anon accounts that he 95% chance also edits under, all four are from Australia, in the same area. | |||
| I resent having to waste so much time with a user, that, I am going to say it for the first time, uses sockpuppets, creates "dupe" articles to avoid page protections, calls me a dicatator, deletes well referenced information, etc. Can an admin please step in and stop this sock? I would love to find out what sock ] is, and will continue to pursue this. I don't want to waste anymore time on this disruptive editor. Best wishes, ] (]) 09:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Please provide diffs - these are serious accusations and evidence is required. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 10:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Um, its all here – ]. <tt>:></tt> — ] 10:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I did. There's no diffs of him calling Travb a dictator. There's no evidence for his creating the 'dupe' article to avoid page protections, just a note that he created ]. There's not a single diff of this 'deletion of well-referenced information'. I am also not happy with the stated intent to hunt down his personal information, nor about the public linking of numerous IP addresses and WHOIS information to the vandal. Even if he is a vandal, this is done in private via checkuser etc for a reason. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 10:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I am working on it. I want to make this case strong, ] is a work in progress. This is the second time I have requested ANI help. The first time, the admin shut down one of Mobile 01 "dupe" articles, the second time I complained, another admin protected several of the redirects. The word "dupe" is not my own, but an Admins. Please see ] (work in progress). | |||
| ::::] in response too: ''I am also not happy with the stated intent to hunt down his personal information, nor about the public linking of numerous IP addresses and WHOIS information to the vandal. '' You answered your own question: ''these are serious accusations and evidence is required.'' How would you pursue this ]? | |||
| ::::I am basically writing a complex RfC at ]. | |||
| :::: ], thanks for the feedback. Best wishes, ] (]) 22:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| sorry I could be wrong but you seem to indicating in that reply, that you wish to track down this person in real life? Is that the case? what is it you intend to do when you do so? --] 22:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| <br /><br /> | |||
| Personally I'm not willing to dig through Mobile01's previous edits, nor am I willing to pour over your page of evidence. Don't you think you're taking things a bit too far here? I will keep an eye on the mentioned articles and Mobile01, but since I have become involved in this matter they have not went on a massive spree of POV editing or high frequency "vandalism". Yes, they created a content fork, and then recreated it... and orphaned the original article; but there are now many eyes on the issue and a repeat of that behaviour will be dealt with as appropriate. | |||
| Accusations of sock puppetry need to be taken to ]. | |||
| And it's "block", not "boot". Thanks/] 23:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Thanks everyone for your comments. Best wishes, ] (]) 01:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ===Response by Mobile 01=== | |||
| '''Firstly''' I would like to clarify that I am not a sock puppet of user LucaZ nor am I a sock puppet of anyone else. I don't know where user TravB gets his information but he should avoid making such accusations against a fellow wiki editor.<br /><br /> | |||
| '''Secondly''' I would like to point out that the creation of the Firestone Internation article was not done to circumvent protection of the ] article. I created this article so I could focus on Firestone as an International company with operating plants in Europe and New Zealand. Firestone Tire and Rubber Company was an American tire manufacturer up until 1981 when it was bought out by Bridgestone Corporation. The company is now run as a wholly owned subsidiary of Bridgestone Corporation and is named Bridgestone Firestone Holdings North America.<br /><br /> | |||
| '''Thirdly''', the edit war that user Travb refers to was started by user Travb. He has repeatedly placed ANTI Firestone content on the ] which he has referenced from the web site StopFirestone.com. On the discussion page he has been repeatedly told about not putting POV content on the page and several users including myself, LucaZ and Bobblehead have tried to explain to him about the NPOV policy of wiki articles. User Travb reverted the ] back to his POV version and replaced much ancient content already discussed by other editors.<br /><br /> | |||
| '''Fourthly''', while I admit it may look like I was trying to create a content fork, that was not my intention. I wanted an article that could focus on Firestone Internationally and not just on the Old USA company. Editors compromised as best as they could with Travb by allowing him to create a criticisms section on the article, we even went so far as to create new articles about the topics he raised and provided a small section on each issue in the criticisms section with links out to the main wiki articles. This still was not good enough for Travb and he once again reverted everyones edits and then filled the article with Anti Firestone Propoganda citing it as referenced material. These references come from anti firestone activity groups and are biased twisted versions of factual events. Searching the web provideds adequate information to dispute or at least counter balance those allegations against firestone USA.<br /><br /> | |||
| '''Finally''', this all seems like a bit of a witch hunt of me and fellow editors who do not agree with travb turning the Firestone Page into a propoganda article in aid of Stopfirestone.com. User Travb hopes to illiminate those of us who would appose his agenda and would try to keep Misplaced Pages a NPOV works. | |||
| ] 00:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Thus far, '''four admins''' I have never met or worked with on wikipedia (to my knowledge) have condemned Mobile 01 behavior. Check out my user contributions, and ] contributions. Best wishes, ] (]) 00:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)<br /> | |||
| Actually none of them have condemmed anything. 1 of them removed her name from your message on her talk poge after you said their were four agreeing with you, she edited it back to three and removed herself. Another of the admins said he didnt want to get invloved and that their was no evidence of any wrong doing. Another has tried to be helpfull and I am working with him on this issue, the only one left isnt answering messages at the moment. The protect placed on the article in question specifically states that it is there to promote discussion and does not endorse that the current protected version is the correct one. Unfortunately no one can discuss anything on the articles discussion page since you flooded it with all your information on the reverts you did. It is no longer possible to follow any of the discussion threads. Check out the contributions by all meens and while your there check out all the previous edits on one of the admins talk pages, a lot of edits considering he just told everyone how he never worked with them before.] 02:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Kimberly Ashton case == | |||
| Dear sysops, please note that I have banned users involved in the Kimberly Ashton case in the Simple English Misplaced Pages. The IP is also blocked for 6 months. Thanks. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 10:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> | |||
| ==]== | |||
| The endless case of a small group of POV-fighters denying international law. The article itself defines ], Western sources like ] and ] call the Soviet acts ], the neutral observers agreed the title '''is''' neutral, the whole talk page is full of sources testifying so... Nevertheless, ] keeps adding POV-title tags, joined by ]. The former has written lots of text on talk page, ] that might hint that denying the occupation could be an acceptable view. The latter has even refused to comment his reverts, which suggest Soviet POV could be more neutral than Britannica. | |||
| Policies: ], ] (Western mainstream POV in that case), ], (only those who affirm there was occupation have cited sources), ] (such a longterm disput can't be based on personal opinions). ] - ] 11:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Now ] has also commented his reverts on talk page, claiming that the the article containing words ] ] is tantamount to Holocaust denial . I take this as a personal offense, and will report as such if necessary. ] - ] 11:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::User ] has participated also in the ] | |||
| == Suspected sockpuppet activity from banned user. == | |||
| I suspect - based on the edits made - that the IP ] is a sockpuppet of the banned user ]. The reasons for this is: | |||
| * The edits done by the IP (see ]) matches edits done by Lightbringer and his other socks, see ] for details. | |||
| * The editsummaries helpfully provided by the IP (see ]) matches editsummaries done by Lightbringer and his other socks, see ] for details. | |||
| * The IP to Shaw Communications Inc - the same ISP frequently used by ], and suspected of being his 'native' ISP. | |||
| Since no other editors seems to be using this IP (as far as I can see from ]), it would be nice if this IP was blocked either permanently or at least for a while. | |||
| ] 11:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :On a similar note, don't forget to extent Lightbringer's block when his latest puppetry is confirmed, his main account is set to come unblocked in April. ] 13:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Block review on egregious edit warrior == | |||
| Last week I came upon an ], so I protected the page. One of the participants, {{user|MatthewFenton}}, responded with | |||
| a snide remark . A quick look over his contributions revealed several more edit wars he had recently been involved in (], ], ], ], ]), generally over minor issues. I protected the latter two (the others were already ove), and told him and the other participant to stop edit warring. Matthew once again responded with snide remarks . | |||
| Today I unprotected the three pages since they don't need to be protected overly long. However, I spotted two more edit wars he was involved in over the weekend (], ]) and one today (]). Even though he stays below the 3RR, I believe this is egregious edit warring. On his recent ], several people noted his aggressive ]ing behavior; indeed he seems to have an "I'm right, you're wrong" approach (, ) and has been known to remove talk page comments he didn't like . | |||
| Blocked for 12 hours, for many instances of edit warring. Since Matthew accuses me of conflict of interest (and stalking, and abusing protection, and not understanding 3RR and WP:V) I'm noting it here. The actual "conflict" is that I opposed his RFA; If such things were considered a conflict of interest, it would be far too easily gamable. ] 14:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * I love the way he accuses you of lack of judgement because of ] - anyone who fails to see the message behind the message there is, in my view, displaying some deficiency in their own critical faculties. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 15:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==] indef block evasion== | |||
| ] is most definitely a ] sock if you look at the edit history. I've got a ] in because he's fond of making loads of socks, but this one at least should probably be blocked right now per ].--] 14:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Indef blocked. Even if he's not a Nintendude sock, it's a single purpose account, where the purpose is the purpose of trolling (unless "Butthole Products" is a real store). ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 14:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Possible Sockpuppetry == | |||
| Sorry if this isn't the right place to bring this up. I was looking over the ] for Suz Andreasen and noticed something that I found to be odd. The last made before the AfD closed were very similar. | |||
| *'''"''Solid Keep''' Seems to fit WP:BIo and author seems a good writer."''bernardola] who has no other edits. | |||
| *'''"'''Keep''' Seems to fit WP:BIo and author seems a good writer."''jamjam].<p>This IP was by ], the author of the article up at AfD, to leave a message on ].<br>Both edits are also signed in a style similar to Archiemartin. (ex: unlinked name<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>).<br>I don't believe that this issue, if it is a sockpuppetry issue, would have changed anything with the AfD.<br>It looks like it had already taken shape as a solid keep, which makes this case all the more strange to me. <br>I apologize again if I brought this up in the wrong place. --] 15:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Huh, there's at least one other sig displaying that peculiar lack of spacing between the comment and the sig, namely {{User|Drregus}}. So at least 4 different people forget to leave a space? Sounds like a job for ] to clean out the socks. --] | ] 15:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Well, I would say at least 4 of those votes are suspect, but even then the obvious consensus is to keep, so why clog DRV? ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 15:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Those are strange new meanings of "obvious" and "consensus" I was previously unaware of. --] | ] 22:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| This account seems only add links to wearethemovies.com, so it's possibly a SPA for linkspam. <sub>→]]</sub> 15:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *A quick check shows that yes, all it's doing is link spamming (including the account's user page). Blocked. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 15:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **What's the appropriate blocking template to put on the user's user talk page? I've had an email requesting I unblock him, as "all the links submitted so far will lead the reader to original, compelling writing", but do not intend to. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 16:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ***The usual template for indef block for spam is ].--] <sup><font color="green">]</font></sup> 16:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *For the record, it doesn't matter what their contributions are; the account name is a violation of ] ("Usernames of or closely resembling the names of companies, groups, or include the URL of a particular website are discouraged and may be blocked"). I've indefinitely-blocked accounts like that on first sight, slapping the talk page with {{tl|UsernameBlocked}}. ] <span style="color: #999;">// ] // ] //</span> 16:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user|70.62.180.159}} == | |||
| :''Moved from ] | |||
| This user appears to be the same person as currently-blocked user 4.21.129.195 (contribs: ), as seen by his use of the word "Mabel" (????) at every opportunity and by his recent vandalism of the University of Virginia article (see here for history: ) to include a profane attack on me, I suppose because I fought to get his other address blocked. A block on 70.62.180.159 appears in order, probably a long-term one as the guy has expressed utter contempt for the entire Misplaced Pages project in the past. ] 17:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :If nobody has any objections, I suggest blocking for at least the duration of ]'s block (another 24 hours or so). According to dnsstuff, 70.62.180.159 is a static IP. Any objections? --] 17:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Cplot making threats again == | |||
| Cplot is back, this time using the following sockpuppets: | |||
| *{{user5|HenryQuiato}} | |||
| *{{user5|TheC-VerizonPlot}} | |||
| They've already spammed several talk pages, and have been blocked already. We'd better watch out for more Cplot activity. --]<sup>]</sup> 17:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Both look more like cheap impersonators than the actual Cplot.--]] 17:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: ] —]<sup>] ]</sup> 17:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :50 cents for one, a half dollar for the other. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 17:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Those are third rate impersonators. There is no mention of Whitehouse officials, government agents, or 9/11 conspiracies. Also Cplot is a much better writer. — ] 20:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Vandalism, wheel warring on ] == | |||
| *{{vandal|Nietjärvi}} This is an obvious sock of banned user {{user|Art Dominique}}. Tendentious editing and wheel warring at ], removes sprotect template, etc. , , . When people revert his unsourced POV edits, he responds by making (fraudulent) revenge accusations against others. He posted a false warning in the wrong place (on the userpage, rather than talkpage) of {{User|Illythr}} . I reverted this, and he immediately posted a false accusation to my own page . Next, vandalized Continuation War talkpage after I warned him with test4 . I reported this at AIV, but it was deleted and I was told to take it here instead. ] 18:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I used to be able to recognise an Art Dominique sock when I saw one when he was busy with the ]s. What's his distinctive marks on the ], could you put together a short documentation? ] ] 18:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: Here, this should do it. Look at this edit summary, of a confirmed Art Dominique sock . Then look at the edit summary of Nietjärvi . Additionally, I've found two more AD socks, {{user|R.T. Merck}} (note that the only contribution is a cut and paste of an Art Dominique rant and {{user|New York, NY}} (same thing) . ] 20:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::What is dangerous in Kven users activity is not his POV pushing or his edit warring, but his personal attacks and false accusations against established users. He has become very skillfull in his deception and destruction. His hate mongering gives an outside appearence of benevolent edits by a concerned editor fighting vandalism and sock puppetry. (See: ]) | |||
| :::] is banned from editing Misplaced Pages, but he is not included in the ]. After this latest outburst of venom, half-truths and fabrication, he should definitely be there. What action, if any, needs to be taken? -- ] 23:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Taj El-Din Hilaly == | |||
| Could somebody take a look at ], including the edit summaries and the vicious personal attacks by ] at the bottom of the talk page? He/she has already been warned about personal attacks and has been reported for a possible 3RR, I also gather. I have nothing to do with dispute, but am just a bit horrified by the attacks --] 18:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Has now been blocked for 24 hours --] 19:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==] is blocked== | |||
| As I said a week ago, I would be blocking {{user|ARYAN818}} because of the potentially offensive user name. He has chosen to argue rather than to come up with a new name. I have indefinitely blocked him. This block is solely because of the User name, I have not become involved in any of his contentious edits, and don't really care at this point. If he chooses a new name which is not offensive, then he can use that. Our policies are clear in this matter. As ] says, ''Fairly or unfairly, the line between acceptable and unacceptable user names is drawn by those who find the username inappropriate, not by the creator of the name.''. ]|] 18:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I don't know if this has been mentioned but 818 is neo-nazi code for "Heil Adolf Hilter" (8=H 1=A 8=H). that in combination with "Aryan"... --] 18:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :: I see from reading the user page there are various cultural issues with the indian use of the name Aryan. However I still think the name needs to be changed because it the conclusion I've just made is a likely one for many western europeans to make. Over the long-term it a name change would provide a lot of hassle and misunderstandings. --] 19:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I think you meant <s>"provide"</s> "avoid". -- ] 23:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Exactly. He keeps claiming that his name is Aryan and he lives in the 818 area code, but won't listen when it's explained to him that the two things put together are Nazi-speak. If he removed the 818, it wouldn't be ''that'' egregious, if he could explain that his name is Aryan, but the two together can't stand. ]|] 19:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I was skeptical about this, but sure enough... look here (if you have a strong stomach) ] 19:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Thanks for blocking that name, Zoe. While he might not have chosen that combination out of a neo-nazi agenda, it just made me uncomfortable seeing it here on Misplaced Pages. ] 21:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Would a username like ] (one, nought/not three) still be permitted, however much it might distress the Trinitarians among us? -- ] 21:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::What does the "103" refer to? ]|] 22:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::I suspect it could symbolise the victory of the ] belief that God has only one (1) nature over (0) the trinitarian view that he has 3 (father, son, holy spirit).--] 22:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::As the word in parentheses hinted, "one nought three" sounds like "one, not three" -- one God (the Father), not three (the Trinity). ] was the losing side at the ] (AD 325), and a theological ancestor of today's ]. I was attempting a riff on the "Aryan"/"Arian" homonymy, two words with different meanings that sound alike. -- ] 22:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Doesn't bother me (since none of these religious debates mean anything to me), though it is advocating a position, and therefore probably fails the Username criteria. ]|] 22:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::It was a matter of heated controversy once -- literally "heated", since later Arians were burned at the stake as heretics -- but why should an expression of the minority view be any more a username violation than an expression of the majority view? E.g. ] (has contribs but no user page), ] (ditto), ] (ditto), ] (ditto), . -- ] 22:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::It just seems to me that there is a big can of worms being inserted into a can opener here. If (say) the Trinitarians were to object to each name that implied a heretical view, while the heretics ''en bloc'' objected to the names suggesting orthodoxy, would ''all'' those names have to change? Or would majority rule let all the big groups block all the smaller groups' names? ], but usernames clearly are -- is there a discrepancy here, or has it been explained somewhere I missed? -- ] 23:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::Yes. See ] a soapbox and ]. Our aim is to build a encyclopedia of all human knowledge. Censorship of content is not compatible with this goal. Restricting offensive usernames is, and in many cases is even furthering that goal by keeping off-topic conflict between editors to a minimum. --] 23:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Back to the user at hand. Assuming he agrees to change names, what are his options? Would "Aryan ", possibly with the addition "in LA", be acceptable to everyone? Name not in all-caps, area code removed? Would ] (or the presumption of innocence) extend that far? Or will there now be suspicion of any username he proposes that still includes "Aryan"? How much wiggle-room will he be allowed? Is this a matter still to be discussed on his talk page, or should this go to an RFC? And will all this be explained to him on his talk page? -- ] 23:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::AGF is not a suicide pact. This guy's had his fair share. If he's legitimate, he will not mind choosing a name that has no possible associations with Nazism. Drop it.--]<sup>g</sup> 03:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == User:Oden == | |||
| On ], he links to being blocked and quotes "Ignorance prevails, when good men fail to act." I consider this an ] on me. He has questioned by integrity as an admin on my talk page and has threatened to de-sysop me for blocking him on the grounds of ]. I ask it to be removed but won't do it myself because of the obvious conflict of interest. Instead of continuing discussion, his recourse is to leave and leave behind an attack on me. ] 19:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I think you are overly sensitive. As far as I can tell, Oden is an experienced and valuable editor with 8000 or so edits, and . I don't know if your block was necessary at all - it looks fairly borderline to me, and a warning might have been enough. Anyways, if you plan to go on enforcing ], you need a much thicker skin! I don't see this as a serious attack. --] 20:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::But an attack nonetheless. More of a cheap shot than a serious attack (contrary to what you're implying, I don't need a therapist :) but is there a reason it must stand therefore be tolerated? ] 21:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I've gone ahead and ] removed the template from his usertalk page and asked that he not add it back. I don't necessarily consider this a ] but it isn't helpful. ] though, he's just venting. I've also asked that he reconsider his retirement because all things considered he does alot of valuable work around here.--] 21:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Has anyone considered that the user may feel sincerely hurt for having been blocked in what he sees as an unfair way? As Stephan Schulz pointed above, he is a longstanding user and had never been in troubles before. This is emphasised too by his "I'm leaving wikipedia" hatnote. Please note that I am not criticising your block here, merely pointing out that sometimes we need to put into somebody else's shoes to understand them. Regards, ]<sup>]</sup> 21:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Like I said above, I think ] was just venting with that template; from the looks of it he does feel he was wronged by that block. I'm not passing judgements on anyone here, but hopefully after everyone has a bit of time to let this pass the template can stay off and ] will return to editing.--] 21:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I didn't and don't want him to leave. Frankly, I was surprised, nigh shocked, that he threw in his hat. Overall, his block lasted 2.5 hours and was removed by Alex when Oden agreed to not edit the article he, IMO, edit warred over. I stated on Oden's talk page that I didn't have a problem with it and I had no hard feelings. Oden further went on a stalking spree against me, my user page, and images I've uploaded (even put one up for speedy deletion on commons without notifying me). To me, he was stalking/attacking me and the quote on his user page was the cherry on top. ] 21:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Well, most people who threaten to leave don't go through with it, if we're going to be realistic. I've reviewed Oden's behavior towards CBurnett, and find it appalling. is an example of alarmingly poor judgment. What worries me most is that the calm tone seems to suggest Oden thinks it's a normal or acceptable way to behave. His unblocker, Alex Bakharev, has now properly re-blocked him for violation of ]. ] | ] 22:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| ::Just for the record, I do not condone that kind of behaviour. Oden should take a wikibreak and come back afresh. ]<sup>]</sup> 22:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Conduct of ] == | |||
| Please see . Apparently ] left him a message requesting that he stop antics on Ecourier, and he responded with that message on jay's userpage. Also there is a note on ] where someone is accusing him of a personal attack. Could a sysop look into this, please? ]]]. 20:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've been referred to posting here by an advocate who I went to for some troubles with user ]. | |||
| First, this user flagrantly defaced the ] page (the deletion is an issue being dealt with separately and not relevant here). I wrote a message on his talk page outlining the edits (e.g. replacing the corporate link with a link to Micky Mouse, changing ] to "Release the balls" etc. Now, some time later, I have received the following threatening personal attack: | |||
| Well, looks like I won after all, you self promoting loser. | |||
| You had the nerve to send me a patronising message, who the hell do you think you are? | |||
| A moral victory for the Wilson. | |||
| I am asking for admin help to address his conduct and prevent further attacks / defacement. Thank you.] 23:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :This user was blocked two days ago. <small>Just to throw my two cents in, you're making quite a big deal for an account with one (1) edit that took place over one month ago.</small> —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 23:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| **Thank you for this. But I respecfully disagree with your comment. First, although the edit may have happened at that time, I've been on holiday and have only just seen it. Second, I think any personal attack is serious, isn't it? I realise more experienced users or admins may encounter these issues all the time, but for those who don't it's quite shocking to see ad hominem attacks on their talk page. It doesn't exactly make you want to spend more time with this community. I am thankful you were able to deal with this so quickly and efficiently and that there are procedures in place to do so.] 23:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Biggerdog== | |||
| ] is adding a ] to numerous articles . ] 21:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : Template needs to be deleted ASAP - it encourages editors to perform vandalism on articles. The editor needs an immediate ban as well. --] 21:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Speedy deleted. We can wait to see if the new User wants to make some valid edits, we can hold off on blocking for the nonce. ]|] 21:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::: While I'm aware of the context "for the nonce" some of our younger UK readers might not be and might think you are calling him a pedophile. A phrase to be careful with in general usage! --] 21:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Hm, I just learned something today... when did ME for "single occasion" become slang for "sex offender"? You wacky Brits :)--] 21:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::: See --] 21:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::LOL, I never saw that meaning before now. :) ]|] 22:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Peculiar sense of humour, it has to be said... ]<sup>]</sup> 21:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Zoe, say .—] (]) 21:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Surprise, me, always accused of newbie-biting, am willing to give him/her the benefit of the doubt and one more chance. :) ]|] 22:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : Aww, now I'm curious, what did I miss? Was it BJAODN-worthy? —]<sup>] ]</sup> 21:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::It basically got stuck onto articles and said "This article is so bad it should be vandalized". ]|] 22:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Exetel vandal== | |||
| I kind of hoped this vandal editing from 220.233/16 might have been stopped, but he came back straight away from a different IP address. I posted this morning after reverting a bunch of his edits and again, I've received no response since then. He has now started editing this evening from 220.233.227.249 - I wonder if something like a soft block on that IP range might be called for in this case. I do hope I'm not going to have to explode all over AN/I again to get him blocked, it was most undignified. Anyone? :/ ] 22:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :For the record, I have, again, been at ]. Since my last 200 edits are nothing but dealing with this one vandal, perhaps someone could at least offer me a response? ] 22:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| * 22:29, 15 January 2007 Josiah Rowe (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "220.233.227.249 (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (IP-hopping, persistent vandalism (see discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Third_time_lucky.3F__Is_anyone_going_to_block_this_vandal_or_not.3F)) | |||
| Indef of an IP address seems inappropriate to me... but either way, it's taken care of. ---] <small>(]/]/])</small> 22:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Thank you. What should I do when he changes his IP address overnight and continues to vandalise? ] 00:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Uploads by {{user|Oliverhenriquez}} == | |||
| {{user|Oliverhenriquez}} uploads all kinds of images and tags them as either PD-self or GFDL-self. Many are obvious copyvios, such as ] (see ). The user has been warned, but seems to ignore the warnings. | |||
| I suggest that all of his uploads are deleted, as he can not be trusted. I also recommend a strong warning (i.e. he will be blocked if it continues) ]] 22:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : A few of the more obvious ones have been reported to ]. There's just too many to go through, and a sweeping delete may be needed if even a few are found to be copyvios, deeming the user to be a blatant copyright vio. ] <small>(]) (])</small> 00:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Legal order to blank ]? == | |||
| I just blocked {{IPVandal|201.170.43.81}} for replacing ] with the following text: | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| Deleted due a legal action in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, Case number 98-2017 JW') Any additions added will result in a ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE RE CONTEMPT. For verification the case is currently before the Honorable James Ware, United States District Court Judge. Telephone number to his clerk is: <snipped>. A court subpoena has been issued for a current list of anyone who has added information here in violation of the court orders. | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| It's a legal threat, with page blanking. Still, it seems sort of serious (hence why I'm posting it here). He posted on ] with the following message: ''Regarding sex.com the following message has been approved by the United States District Court. If you have questions, call the court. Any further attempt to change the web page will result in an order to show cause re: contempt.'' | |||
| What do you think guys? Legitimate legal concern or ridiculous prank? ] 23:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Prank - unless they plan to stop newspapers talking about the site. --] 23:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :If a court really decided that, you'd think, if it's a legit court, they would call Jimbo's office. ] <small>]</small> 23:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Yes, and they probably would not use an IP registered in Mexico. (N Californa court, not S). ] <sup>]</sup> 23:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::(edit conflicted) Precisely. Some court staff could be naive...hence the concern. Coincidentally, I sincerely doubt that any US Court would be editing from Mexico City :). ] 23:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| There has indeed been extensive litigation over the sex.com domain name before Judge Ware, as is discussed in the ] article itself. However, the claim that the court would enter an order barring any information being posted to an independent website is frivolous, and the claim that it would be contempt of court for a non-party to the proceeding to violate an order as to which it lacked notice and an opportunity to heard is inconsistent with governing precedent. To me, it looks like the goal of the poster may have been to harass the Court with a deluge of phone calls to the number provided, and I suggest that the edit be deleted. ] 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Thank you all for your responses. I'm not as sure about deleting the revisions (are clerk #s typically private?). I'd think they'd show up in court documents. ] 00:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::That phone number is the main number for the ], San Jose Division. It's not a private number, but I'm sure the court staff have better things to do than answer random questions about whether users can post to the Misplaced Pages article on sex.com or not. I suppose deleting the edit isn't that big a deal if it's it's just a one-off. ] 00:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I have deleted the revisions. No point in allowing anyone to use Misplaced Pages as a vehicle for harassment. ] 00:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Block 64.229.92.172 == | |||
| He received a final warning from Diez2 earlier today, and I just reverted some more of his vandalism. As you can see from his , it looks like he's done a lot of vandalism over the last two days. ] 23:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I've issued a 31 hour block. This guy wasn't trying to improve the encyclopedia. -]<sup>(])</sup> 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I have to say, this whole idea of issuing warnings for the removal of warnings is just crap. We've got a dynamic IP here, and quite possibly someone getting caught by someone else's block. The guy doesn't need his own legitimate complaints deleted from his talk page to be replaced with an officious template-turd about not removing warnings. Why does that template even exist? -]<sup>(])</sup> 00:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::What a good question. The chief function of the template seems to be to deceive the inexperienced into thinking that removing warnings is a wikicrime, and to go harass users based on that false belief. GTBacchus, how about you put it up for deletion? I'd do it, if I didn't suffer from ''deletophobia'', or fear of deletion procedures. ] | ] 01:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC). | |||
| == Vandalism of the "Embarrassment" page == | |||
| The page listed below has been vandalised: | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Embarrassment | |||
| : I don't see any particular vandalism on that page, but then again, I skimmed it. Anyway, if you see someone vandalizing a page, click "History" at the top of the page. Then look for the edit in which the vandalism occurred. You do this by checking the little radio button next to two seperate edits, and it will show you what changed between them. When you find the earliest "good" version, click on its title in the history list and hit "edit". For your revert summary, type "rvv" or "revert vandalism" and mark the edit as minor. Then hit save. | |||
| : Alternatively, if it's just a small bit of vandalism, you can hit "Edit this Page" and delete the vandalism manually. Hope that helps. ] ''(])'' 00:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == {{user|Art Dominique}} sockpuppets are now vandalizing my talk page == | |||
| Please block this latest Art Dominique sockpuppet {{user|PN.P. p}}. Earlier, I reported an AD sock . Now, the same person is back with a new sock, vandalizing my talk page with fraudulent warnings , and . These were both reverted by the admin Physicq210. | |||
| This whole thing is ridiculous. Please block this latest puppet, and I recommend adding Art Dominique to the per Petri Krohn's request above. | |||
| Additionally, here are two more Art Dominique socks. Please review and block them as well if you agree they are indeed socks. | |||
| * {{user|R.T. Merck}} (note that the only contribution is a cut and paste of an Art Dominique rant | |||
| * {{user|New York, NY}} (same thing) . | |||
| Thank you for acting quickly on this. ] 00:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Speaking of Stalking... == | |||
| In case anyone didn't know, anyone having a name close to or claiming to be {{vandal|Trip the Light Fantastic}} or {{vandal|Monkeybreath}}, please block on sight. Or anyone claiming to be taking revenge on me ect. FYI, the first guy I blocked for a week for blatent copyvio on ] which related to adding episode summaries for yet unaired episodes (which were downloaded illegally on bittorrent). The second one came to the aid of the first (very randomly). So far, mostly attaking me, , stalking me and . The second one is definatly the first one from the message on Books. IPs used so far include ] (blocked as OP), ], ] (blocked as OP), ] (AOL), and ] (who also went after ). It almost seems more worth it to keep my userpage/talk page unprotected for now and catch as many OP's as possible. So, if some people could just keep that watched for now, hopefully he'll get tired and go away. -]<small>(]·]·])</small> 00:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Mine as well keep everyone updated: {{vandal|Monkeebreath}} -]<small>(]·]·])</small> 03:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] testing the community patience == | |||
| {{userlinks|Ernham}} is a user who appears to be editing from a strongly nationalist German viewpoint, and has edited tendentiously in the past, most notably on bios of German sportspeople, most notably ]. A look at the block log shows that he has five 3RR violations, four directly on ] and another on ], in all cases repeatedly removing negative information about Schumacher's driving tactics. In the October 30 set of reverts, he actually reverts 9 times , repeatedly claiming endless reverts as vandalism. He also has a history of being repeatedly rude and incivil (blocked twice), calling editors and edits with different viewpoints. Editors identified by Ernham as vandals include {{admin|Mark83}}, {{admin|Jpgordon}} and {{admin|Blnguyen}}, with additional evidence and examples appearing in more detail at ] and ]). Whilst under block, he was also further blocked for threatening to inciting legal action, claiming that he would report Misplaced Pages to Schumacher's management. He has also gone round and round at {{article|Steffi Graf}}, against pushing a strongly pro-German POV. Other disturbing examples include an to ] and to ], the two strikers in the ], who happen to have Polish heritage, where Ernham deletes info of their Polish bloodline and also a section in ], about his university's mathematics faculty being decimated by the Nazi expulsion of Jewish faculty. Ernham also seems to have caused a stir with his participation to various articles about racial groups and IQ, but perhaps others could make a more informed comment about this. At the moment, I feel Ernham should at least be banned from editing Formula One articles, if he has not already totally exhausted community patience. ''']''' (]) 02:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Where's the diff for that legal threat you say he made? <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']''</sup></font> 03:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Here . Konstable gave him an extra three days last time. There was a previous discussion on ANI about him as well. ''']''' (]) 03:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Even more Primetime== | |||
| I did a little browsing of {{User|Primetime}}'s back catalog, and lo, more stuff, namely re-creating the copyright violation that is ] by {{vandal|Udht}} -- the violation which got him ] -- and into ] by {{vandal|Anfvh}}. (Their last edits were in October, unfortunately, so Checkuser presumably wouldn't work.) Looking over the list of copyright violations from his user page, all the links which I recall being red are now blue: perhaps an admin can compare the new articles and additions with the deleted copyvios: | |||
| *{{Article|Bernardo Davanzati}} | |||
| *{{Article|Jean Coralli}} | |||
| *{{Article|Salvatore Quasimodo}} | |||
| *{{Article|Ramón Menéndez Pidal}} | |||
| *{{Article|Sergio Marchionne}} | |||
| *{{Article|Wilhelm His, Sr.}} | |||
| *{{Article|Pascual Ortiz Rubio}} | |||
| *{{Article|Paolo Fresco}} | |||
| *{{Article|Anastasio Bustamante}} | |||
| *{{Article|Retentivity}} | |||
| *{{Article|Ebira}} | |||
| *{{Article|Manuel Gómez Pedraza}} | |||
| --] | ] 02:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==WikiStalked by Ronz and fyslee (who works with Stephen Barrett) == | |||
| Please help me. These editors are a team to bully me and others off of Misplaced Pages. I edit only in good faith. I have been attempting to edit for several months and continually and immediately get reverted by fyslee and ronz . fyslee claims he is an "attack" when I discuss his work with Stephen Barrett, however, he himself advertises the fact of his years with Barrett. fyslee treats Misplaced Pages like the Healthfraud List where he is assistant listmaster to Stephen Barrett and they censor anyone who won't march to their drummer. When fyslee first set up his QuackFiles on Misplaced Pages, he posted links showing that it was his 'responsibility' to post on Misplaced Pages, as well as run the Skeptic and Quack Webrings. Here is the link where he writes about this, If you read these, which fyslee posted himself on Misplaced Pages ] 02:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :It looks like you're asking someone to paddle off on a fishing expedition. The three links go to two offwiki sites and one 59kb archive talk page without much specific indication of where and what to search for, yet the accusations against a couple of editors are very serious. ] may be the place to take this because, from the quick browse I gave things, this looks like a mostly civil content dispute between allopathic medicine and alternative medicine proponents. I won't comment on the content dispute, but if you build a more serious case for policy violations with specific page diffs I'll look into that. <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']''</sup></font> 03:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Pardon me. Here is the exact link where fyslee advertises his responsibilities on Misplaced Pages and on the Healthfraud List. He treats Misplaced Pages the same as he treats the Healthfraud List where he has been a censor for Barrett for several years. Fyslee brought his and Barrett's hatred of me to Misplaced Pages from my first edit here. He is used to being able to censor me and others who he disagrees with. When Barrett lost his suit to me, several of his teammates like fyslee have attempted to change history and one way is by reverting my edits. I will get the diffs where he reverted factual, verified information such as Barrett's NCAHF's suspension, and replaced it with his lies. Thank you very much. ] 03:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :See for some history. --] 03:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :As for my behavior, I have recently been trying to help Ilena out of the problems that she gets herself in, after being very impressed with her attempts to change her behavior here after . Sometimes she attacks me for this. I'm happy to explain any of my edits, why I did them, and what if anything I'd do differently today. As long as Ilena cannot understand nor follow even basic Wiki policy, she will always be causing problems here. --] 03:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
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Obvious sock threatening to take legal action
VPN socking blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
IP 2409:40D6:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 range block has been blocked for 6 months. Liz 03:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This IP range has been socking to edit a wide range of caste articles, especially those related to Jats . This range belongs to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Truthfindervert and has been socking using proxies and VPNs too. Many of which have been blocked. Now they are threatening to take legal action against me "but how far we will remain silence their various optimistic reason which divert my mind to take an legal action against this two User
" . - Ratnahastin (talk) 11:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just as ignorant as he is known longtime abnormal activation and especially on those of Jat article see his latest revision on Dudi you will get to urge why he have atrocity to disaggregating Jat articles but pm serious node i dont mention him not a once but ypu can also consolidate this User:TheSlumPanda who dont know him either please have a eyes on him for a while 2409:40D6:11A:3D97:D46A:3CB4:A474:99A0 (talk) 12:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- But wait a second as per WP:NOPA i dont take his name either not even so dont even try to show your true culler midway cracker and admin can you please not i am currently ranged blocked as my network is Jio telecom which was largely user by various comers2409:40D6:11A:3D97:D46A:3CB4:A474:99A0 (talk)
- Please tell me there's a language issue at play here, and that the IP didn't mention WP:No personal attacks and use a racist slur in the same sentence there... —C.Fred (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think it's both. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well, we linguists don't like anecdotal evidence, but I'll provide some: I (non-native speaker of English, with a linguistics PhD) had to look up all the potential candidates for a slur in that post, and when I did find one it's not one I'd ever heard. However, "crackers" is an insult in Hindi, so I'd say it is most likely a PA, just not the one an American English speaker might understand it as. --bonadea contributions talk 13:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- At least in the South, an American would recognize Cracker as a pejorative. Acroterion (talk) 13:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, but the IP user who used the word said they are in India, and their post contains various typical non-native speaker errors. ("culler" instead of "colour", for instance) --bonadea contributions talk 16:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Funny thing is you go far enough south it wraps back around again: Florida cracker - The Bushranger One ping only 22:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- At least in the South, an American would recognize Cracker as a pejorative. Acroterion (talk) 13:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please tell me there's a language issue at play here, and that the IP didn't mention WP:No personal attacks and use a racist slur in the same sentence there... —C.Fred (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Observation: the IP just tried to place a contentions topics notice on the talk page of the Dudi article. It's peripheral, and the IP is pretty clearly involved. Is this a bad-faith edit by the IP, or should we just take their suggestion and extended-confirmed protect the page?... —C.Fred (talk) 12:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a Dudi caste? Though I will note there is a lot of overlap between the "Indian Subcontinent" and "South Asian social strata" topic areas. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v 21:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Noting that this person (Truthfindervert?) has taken to using VPNs. I’ve blocked a couple today. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by User:AnonMoos
The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of WP:TALKNO and failure to get the point. Issues began when this editor removed 5000+ bytes of sourced material. They did it again and again and again.
Instead of starting a discussion on the talk page of the article, the user came to my talk page to let me know of their opinion of my contributions. When I started a discussion on the talk page of the relevant article, the user edited my signature and changed the heading of the discussion I started according to their POV. When I let them know that this was highly inappropriate according to WP:TALKNO, both in that discussion and on their talk page, they responded on my talk page stating ever since the stupid Misplaced Pages Dec. 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, to able to edit or view Misplaced Pages at all from my home computer, I have to use an indirect method which involves a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool. I couldn't even really see your signature that way, and so didn't know to try to avoid changing it
, which I had never heard of. In any case, they kept reverting the content supported by the reliable source, they also kept attempting to apply their POV to the discussion heading again and again and again. I finally explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, and they went ahead and changed it again anyway.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by إيان (talk • contribs) 15:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- The other user in this case is User:AnonMoos? This looks like a content dispute over whether the article is on the English version of a German-Arabic dictionary or the dictionary itself. Secretlondon (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes the is indeed about User:AnonMoos. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating WP:TALKNO repeatedly even after I explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and changed it again anyway. إيان (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. Secretlondon (talk) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's a conduct issue. إيان (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "
Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless of how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible. It can also sometimes be appropriate to merge entire sections under one heading (often preserving the later one as a subheading) if their discussions are redundant.
" To be blunt, if you don't want editors changing the headings of sections you start, don't use such terrible headings. I definitely recommend you stay away from ANI since changing headings is quite common here. Nil Einne (talk) 06:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)- Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- إيان: I suggest you stop messing around with the section heading since it's a distraction which could easily lead to you being blocked. But if AnonMoos changes your signature again, report it and only that without silliness about section headings, mentioning that they've been warned about it before if needed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "
- It's a conduct issue. إيان (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. Secretlondon (talk) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes the is indeed about User:AnonMoos. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating WP:TALKNO repeatedly even after I explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and changed it again anyway. إيان (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I wrote a long and detailed explanation on his user talk page as to why the date-only header is basically useless in that context, but he's still for some peculiar reason fanatically determined to keep changing it back. Frankly, I've basically run out of good-faith reasons that make any sense -- except of course, his apparently unshakable belief that he has certain talk-page "rights", which according to Misplaced Pages guidelines he does not in fact have (outside of his own personal user talk page)... AnonMoos (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- @AnonMoos: I don't see a problem with changing the heading but why on earth did you change their signature multiple times ? That is indeed a clear violation of WP:TPOC since the signature was perfectly valid per WP:NLS. In fact your change was far worse since it changed a perfectly valid signature which would take other editors to the contributor's talk page and user page into an invalid one which lead no where. If you're using some sort of plugin which does that, it's your responsibility to manage it better so it doesn't do that ever again especially if you're going to edit talk pages where it might be common. If you're doing that intentionally, I suggest you cut it out or expect to be indeffed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:AnonMoos, this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. Liz 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet . This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. ). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later . Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Misplaced Pages securely. — The Hand That Feeds You: 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Should be impossible as it's required to even access the site in the first place according to WP:SECLakesideMiners 16:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Looking at his talk page it's been going back to at least 2011LakesideMiners 16:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Misplaced Pages securely. — The Hand That Feeds You: 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet . This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. ). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later . Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:AnonMoos, this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. Liz 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Guys, I do not deliberately set out to modify signatures, and when it happens, I am not usually aware of doing so. As I've already explained before in several places, since the December 2019 encryption protocol upgrade (NOT 2011!), the only way I can edit (or view) Misplaced Pages at all from home is by an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. To change this, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection, which would permanently disconnect my older computer, which I still use almost every day.
- Meanwhile, this thread has been set up so I can't add a comment to it from home without affecting Unicode characters, so I was unable to reply here for 36 hours or so. If I'm silent in the future, it will be for the same reason. AnonMoos (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages uses Unicode characters (UTF-8 encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should not edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Misplaced Pages at all unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Misplaced Pages developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Misplaced Pages's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Misplaced Pages from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- ...HTTPS was created in 1994, and became an official specification in 2000, not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Misplaced Pages with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web at all, and the security hole that lets you access Misplaced Pages without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is not working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- You unfortunately don't know what you're talking about. New ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL METHODS have been introduced within HTTPS from time to time. I was using HTTPS perfectly happily until December 2019, when the developers arbitrarily ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- And even leaving that aside, as Johnuniq mentions - if you can't edit without corrupting Unicode characters, and by your own admission you don't know when it happens, you shouldn't be editing. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is probably a reference to when Misplaced Pages started requiring TLS 1.2 (because earlier versions were deprecated). Anyone who was/is still on Windows XP at that point couldn't connect any more. MrOllie (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- ...HTTPS was created in 1994, and became an official specification in 2000, not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Misplaced Pages with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web at all, and the security hole that lets you access Misplaced Pages without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is not working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Misplaced Pages at all unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Misplaced Pages developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Misplaced Pages's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Misplaced Pages from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not talking about when the update happening, I'm talking about how you have known about this issue, and have been getting complainants about it since
2011and are still not taking any steps to do anything about it. What kind of internet connection would not support your PC? What on earth are you even using? Dial-Up? Because that still is supported by even Windows 10. LakesideMiners 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages uses Unicode characters (UTF-8 encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should not edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Also, how did you see me saying "this has happened since 2011" as me saying that the update happened in 2011? Can you clarify. LakesideMiners 03:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies. I was extremely tired when I wrote both above. I have striken the date parts. Rest of my comments still stand. LakesideMiners 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
None of this matters
I don't care what tool this guy uses or what his excuse is. If he can't edit without screwing up people's sigs, then he must not edit. AnonMoos shouls consider himself on notice now that if one of his edits messes stuff up one more time, he'll be blocked until he can give assurance that he's come into the 21st century. EEng 18:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- That's nice -- and also totally inaccurate. I was in the 21st century, and using 2012 tools, up until December 2019, when the developers pitchforked me backwards by arbitrarily imposing HTTPS ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS which my home computer hardware is not able to run. Notice that I had no problem complying with character-set handling -- the problem is with arbitrary ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The century imagery is irrelevant. You have been warned. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- That was six years ago, which is IMO about 3-4 years too long to keep using it as an excuse. Technology changes over time, so whatever this non-standard thing you think you need to do to edit here, it may be time to make a choice. Zaathras (talk) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Misplaced Pages developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... AnonMoos (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- And just to say for the third time: you're out of chances. "Occassionally" is too often. Once more is too often. And if and when that happens, your attitude of entitlement displayed here will pretty much ensure an indefinite block. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you have DSL or even DialUp. That still works with modern machines. LakesideMiners 01:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Heck, I am on DSL (and have been since, if I recall right, 2008). I have no idea what sort of ancient Internet connection AnonMoos is claiming to be using, but it's clearly one that was already obsolete before this change he's still up in arms about six years later was made. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Misplaced Pages developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... AnonMoos (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The response by AnonMoos to feedback about this problem is bizarre. I don't really care what the excuse or the history behind it. If you are unwilling to edit Misplaced Pages using tools that work in 2024 then you should stop editing. The behavior is completely unnecessary and it seems like you don't understand the disruption. Nemov (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- AnonMoos hasn't really explained in any detail what their technical limitations are. They don't have to, but we can't really give advice otherwise. If as others have suggested their computer can't negotiate TLS 1.2, I'm surprised that they're able to use any websites at all from that computer. Requiring TLS 1.2 is not controversial; Misplaced Pages wasn't doing anything unusual in dropping TLS 1.0/1.1 around that time. Mackensen (talk) 15:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Disruptive editing by User talk:185.146.112.192
The User talk:185.146.112.192 is engaging in disrupte editing. Neither does this IP provide sources and is POV pushing. And this IP has been warned multiple times for this on his/her talk page.
Moroike (talk) 20:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Moroike: It looks like you both are edit warring on Kichik Bazar Mosque. That's not particularly helpful, so you should try to have a discussion on the article talk page as to whether you should include the Talysh language name for the article in the lead/infobox. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 20:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- MJL why and how did you pick out that one article over the many this IP has made recent changes to? The IP has been making disputed edits for months and has been reverted by a number of editors, not just Moroike. CMD (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @CMD: I am not suggesting that the IP editor isn't being disruptive, but my point is that Moroike isn't making the situation better (using the example of that one article). You can see this by looking at their last 50 contributions where they have mostly just reverted this editor without using a summary. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 18:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The IP's edits were removed a total of 13 times on the page regarding the capital city of Azerbaijan, Baku. You can't let him continue engaging in further edit wars with other users besides Moroike, can you? Nuritae331 (talk) 17:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- MJL why and how did you pick out that one article over the many this IP has made recent changes to? The IP has been making disputed edits for months and has been reverted by a number of editors, not just Moroike. CMD (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Since this IP user won't stop and is stonewalling, either he/should be temporarily blocked, or all the pages he is POV pushing without sources, should be semi-protected, so that only registered users can edit them. Moroike (talk) 21:37, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
User engaged in edit warring to remove disputed content prior to consensus
There's nothing actionable in this content dispute, except perhaps trouting the original poster for failing to assume good faith and hounding friendly admins when they try to help. Longtime user User:Sxbbetyy (4.5 yrs, over 5K edits) has made several assertions based on their clear misunderstanding of social norms. In this discussion they've failed to notify the subject (they actually failed to use the subject's name in the OP), they've failed to bring any diffs, they failed to sign their post, and over and over they seem to have failed to assume good faith of their fellow editors. A number of editors including several admins have attempted to talk Sxbbetyy down. Nobody in this discussion seems to agree with Sxbbetyy on the merits, yet Sxbbetyy keeps circling back to their own personal interpretation of policy. The discussion at User talk:Sergecross73, where Sxbbetyy refuses to listen to the admin they asked, gives another example of the problem. Sxbbetyy is reminded that creating a post on ANI puts all their own behaviors up for examination. BusterD (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Title is pretty self explanatory. Rather than engage in the consensus building process to determine if the disputed content discussed here is problematic, this editor has instead immediately reverted the disputed content. They have been informed of the relevant policies prohibiting this behavior and how it should normally be handled (tagging the content as disputed while the discussion is ongoing) but have elected to instead engage in edit warring to keep the disputed content removed prior to any consensus on the matter. Also important to note that they wish to have the content removed entirely, but have stated that they no longer intend to participate in the consensus building discussion. So this appears to be a WP:STONEWALLING tactic to accomplish their goal of removing the content immediately without a consensus. Seeking admin help to halt this behavior and restore the content with the correct tagging.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sxbbetyy (talk • contribs) 23:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- It would help if you named the editor and signed your name to figure out what you are talking about; a noticeboard only works if you give us notice about the subject and what is happening. Nate • (chatter) 23:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- The editor appears to be PerfectSoundWhatever, based on the link under the word "this" as well as this notification. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 23:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- My apology, this is my very first time making such a post. The other pages o have spoken on seemed to have signed themselves automatically. Will remember this going forward. And yes, that was the user, posted this using my phone so I didn't want to mis-spell their name, just linked instead. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) IMO the best practice is that in the event of a content dispute, the article should be reverted to the status quo of how the article's content appeared before the dispute started, until such a time that consensus is established to re-add it (see: WP:STATUSQUO). It seems like the beginning of the content that is in dispute was added on 18 August 2024, the dispute began a few weeks later on 23 September 2024 and has been ongoing ever since.In this case, since the article existed in a relatively steady state for several months (or even years?) previous to the disputed material being added, I think it'd be wise to leave the disputed content out of the article until the discussion comes to a close. RachelTensions (talk) 00:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have been seeing this opinion from a few editors and even one admin on how to interpret this article. However, the first few sentences in that section do outright state to avoid reverting the disputed content prior to a consensus. And prior to opening this report, I asked several admins on the topic and got a response that reverting the disputed content immediately is incorrect per WP:STATUSQUO as it bypasses the consensus building process. I was advised that the content should instead be tagged as disputed rather than be outright removed. The offending user was made aware of the relevant policies but has nonetheless engaging in edit warring to keep it reverted, hence this report. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- The status quo of an article constitutes implicit consensus (WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS). The person trying to include disputed content in an article despite it not being status quo is the one that could be construed as attempting to bypass the consensus building process, not the person trying to maintain status quo until discussion takes place. RachelTensions (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Correct, and at no point was the definition of what constitutes the status quo ever in contention. In fact, if you review the edit history of the article you can see that the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content, and then continued to revert it as others tried to restore it (both before and after the consensus discussion began). Sxbbetyy (talk) 23:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content
Not really, I personally wouldn't define "been there a few weeks" as status quo.I think maybe the other replies to this thread provide pretty good reasoning to take a step back and say "hey maybe I'm the one in the wrong here" instead of talking in circles RachelTensions (talk) 00:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)- Personally I think the number of contributions since the edit where it has gone unchanged is a more useful metric, especially on low traffic pages such as this one. Regardless, per the policy you cite, there seems to be no official Misplaced Pages stance on what exact criteria are needed for a contribution to be considered the current status quo, beyond it having been unchallenged in subsequent contributions (which is the case here).
- As for the rest of your comment, there seems to be a high amount of band wagoning and "Proof by assertion" going on in the rest of this. Or people trying to use this report as an extension of the dispute discussion on the article's talk page. Hopefully more actual admins to chime in on the topic as I don't actually want to waste my time talking in circles.
- On that note thanks for actually taking the time and baseline minimal effort to engage in a discussion where you actually support your point and don't just devolve into repeating the same talking points over and over. It's a nice change of pace. Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Correct, and at no point was the definition of what constitutes the status quo ever in contention. In fact, if you review the edit history of the article you can see that the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content, and then continued to revert it as others tried to restore it (both before and after the consensus discussion began). Sxbbetyy (talk) 23:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- The status quo of an article constitutes implicit consensus (WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS). The person trying to include disputed content in an article despite it not being status quo is the one that could be construed as attempting to bypass the consensus building process, not the person trying to maintain status quo until discussion takes place. RachelTensions (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have been seeing this opinion from a few editors and even one admin on how to interpret this article. However, the first few sentences in that section do outright state to avoid reverting the disputed content prior to a consensus. And prior to opening this report, I asked several admins on the topic and got a response that reverting the disputed content immediately is incorrect per WP:STATUSQUO as it bypasses the consensus building process. I was advised that the content should instead be tagged as disputed rather than be outright removed. The offending user was made aware of the relevant policies but has nonetheless engaging in edit warring to keep it reverted, hence this report. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am the editor being discussed here. I'll provide a summary of events since the initial statement by Sxbbetyy is misleading.
- Myself and the editor had a content dispute at Team Seas (1) and following circular discussion, I stopped engaging since I felt I had laid out my points. Per WP:STATUSQUO, I maintained the state of the article to before the dispute. I requested for a third opinion, which was answered by @BerryForPerpetuity:, who agreed the statement should be removed, albeit for a different reason than mine. I took this 2-1 as rough consensus. I also posted the dispute on two WikiProjects, and have received no response so far. Sxbbetyy reached out to three admins about the matter, @Sergecross73, Oshwah, and Pbsouthwood:. The Sergecross73 discussion can be summarized as Sergecross believing that I haven't engaged in misconduct, and that I have presented a "plausible, good-faith interpretation of SYNTH". Sxbbetyy then accused Sergecross73 of not acting in good faith. Oshwah did not respond to the post on their talk page, but @BusterD: did, essentially agreeing that the sourcing does not back up the claim in the content dispute. Sxbbetyy received help on Pbsouthwood's talk page about responding to a content dispute. And now we're here.
- Throughout these interactions, Sxbbetyy has demonstrated a failure to assume good faith, refuses to accept that they may be wrong, and WP:BLUDGEONs talk pages, refusing to let the other editor have the last word. Frankly, this is a massive waste of editor time: it should have been a brief talk page discussion then an RfC. Apologies for all the pings. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 00:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- This summarization in itself leaves out critical context, (such as berry's concern being alleviated and them no longer expressing a desire to remove the content), the specifics of why that conversation with Serge ended the way it did despite my repeated attempts to engage with them in good faith, and the entire discussion with pbsouthwood (who quite definitively explained that the behavior PSW was engaged in was not correct). So I urge all involved to go read those topics to get the correct context through your own eyes and then discuss any concerns from what you see here. That being the case, it seems pretty clear cut imo. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just to be clear, in no way did I express that I didn't want the content to be removed. I did not receive a notification for your reply, and I wouldn't have engaged either way. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 17:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- This summarization in itself leaves out critical context, (such as berry's concern being alleviated and them no longer expressing a desire to remove the content), the specifics of why that conversation with Serge ended the way it did despite my repeated attempts to engage with them in good faith, and the entire discussion with pbsouthwood (who quite definitively explained that the behavior PSW was engaged in was not correct). So I urge all involved to go read those topics to get the correct context through your own eyes and then discuss any concerns from what you see here. That being the case, it seems pretty clear cut imo. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I would leave that material out of the article. Whilst it may not exactly be synthesis per se, it is certainly editorialising ("the removal of that amount of marine debris is of negligible consequence...") unless there is an actual source that says this by making a link between between the two statistics (the amount of waste removed by Team Seas and the rate at which waste is entering the ecosystem). And even then, I would say that such an edit would need to say something like "However, ARandomNewspaper pointed out that ...". Black Kite (talk) 00:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- That is actually no longer the content that is being disputed. If you look at the latest version that got reverted on the article you can see the current version. I had made edits to it precisely because of valid WP:NPOV concerns brought to my attention by PSW. However, their dispute with the content remains with the claim that is is synthesis rather than any other concern. Which they have been thus far unable to obtain a consensus on. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have some pretty serious WP:IDHT concerns about the topic starter here. They came to me for help (no idea how/why me, I have no connection to this dispute) and I repeatedly told them I didn't see any misconduct, and then they started attacking me when I refused to agree with them. And now this. This is a very simple content dispute, with a very simple no consensus means no change outcome. I've told them this. It's a disappointing time sink on a rather trivial content dispute. Sergecross73 msg me 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- At no point was he "attacked". I defended myself after he became hostile with me (as anyone can read in our convo, I stated multiple times that I would leave and did not want to be a burden if they didn't want to engage with this, but he made no such objections and continued). Eventually he just became outright hostile and refused to explain their points any further, devolving the conversation into them repeating themselves over and over, its all there to read on his talk page. As for why I contacted him, I wanted to ensure I chose impartially so I just randomly looked at the currently active admins at the time and he was the first one I found. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- The discussion is right here, if anyone wants to look. The "attack" I'm referring to you is your accusation that I responded to you in bad faith. I was not involved in the dispute, have no stance on it, and had no pre-conceived notions about either of you - what in the world would my motivations be for "bad faith responses"? It doesn't make any sense. You simply didn't get the response you wanted, and proceeded to badger me on it. Did I get vaguely irritated when I volunteered my time to review and comment on a dispute I had no stance or interest in, only to get all sorts of sour grapes responses on it? Yeah, sure, but who wouldn't? Sergecross73 msg me 18:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- At no point was he "attacked". I defended myself after he became hostile with me (as anyone can read in our convo, I stated multiple times that I would leave and did not want to be a burden if they didn't want to engage with this, but he made no such objections and continued). Eventually he just became outright hostile and refused to explain their points any further, devolving the conversation into them repeating themselves over and over, its all there to read on his talk page. As for why I contacted him, I wanted to ensure I chose impartially so I just randomly looked at the currently active admins at the time and he was the first one I found. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm here from my input at the 3rd opinion request. This is nothing more than a trivial content dispute, I see no reason for this to be at ANI. I somewhat agree with the claim of synthesis, it becomes more susceptible to incorrect information, and from my analysis it seemed like the claim in the disputed content was completely wrong. Two different sources, from two different time periods. My $0.02: The claim of stonewalling is ridiculous, there was ample good-faith discussion based on existing policy and guidelines. This editor does not assume good faith, it appears that he claims that editors disagreeing are acting in bad faith. From him to administrator Sergecross73:
"I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."
It seems that he roots his argument based on the editor who removed it rather than the content itself. Very unfortunate waste of time. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 15:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)- Exactly. It's not "stonewalling" that's happening here. PerfectSoundWhatever has discussed at-length at the talk page. They're simply not willing to talk circles indefinitely. And we don't require that of editors. I've urged Sxbbetyy to, rather that spin their wheels arguing with the same person endlessly in a stalemate, to try to get other participants to take part. But they've refused, and instead decided to move their arguing to ANI instead. As I noted to them in one of my last comments to them, if they spent half as much effort in consensus-building as they did complaining and arguing, they could have built a consensus by now... Sergecross73 msg me 17:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Reading any of what I wrote in this dispute shows clearly that is not the case. Also, the quoted sentence is completely taken out of context.
- Here is what was said in the mesaage before that they left out, "Not really the logical conclusion one draws from reading any of what I wrote here, where I asked multiple times for you to explain your reasoning in your replies (instead your response was to repeat yourself without offering further explanation), but if that is what you want to take away from this that's fine by me. I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."
- The message as a whole was replying to was a passive aggressive insult that didn't progress that conversation, hence the response as it was clearly not an example of engagement in good faith.Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also, it looks like the participants in the dispute on the Team Seas article are acting as if this report is an extension of that dispute discussion.
- This is a report of edit warring to revert disputed content prior to a consensus being reached (there was no consensus prior to the reversion and there still is no consensus, as admitted by PSW themselves in that very dispute and In their latest revert message, no idea why now in this report they are trying to claim that there is suddenly consensus for removal).
- This is not a report on the dispute itself, just to make that very clear since those involved are responding as if it is. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- You've still got this backward. You need to show a consensus to keep your content in the article, as everyone else has been telling you. WP:ONUS is directly on point, and I'll quote it here:
The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.
MrOllie (talk) 18:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)- Thank you. I have tried to inform them of this many times and many ways. I do not know why they cannot wrap their head around the concept. Conceptually, it would be very problematic if we were required to retain every disputed content until consensus ruled it out. It wouldn't be workable. Sergecross73 msg me 19:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nobody is arguing WP:ONUS here...not in the dispute and not here in this report. The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.
- I was directly advised by admin Pbsouthwood that the removal of disputed content BEFORE any consensus has been reached is not allowed (save for specific situations, none of which apply to the disputed content) as this bypasses the consensus building process. Here is the talk page where I was advised this. This is echoed with the wording in WP:STONEWALLING and WP:STATUSQUO. Here is the direct quote from the latter, "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages, is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." Sxbbetyy (talk) 19:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.
<--- No. This is your problem. What you are saying here is incorrect. Policies say the opposite of this. You are not going to get support at ANI. In fact, the longer you keep going with this WP:IDHT insistence that community practice is actually the opposite of what policies plainly say it is, the more likely it is you're going to find yourself blocked for disruption. Pbsouthwood didn't tell you this either (what he wrote doesn't match what you've been doing), and your initial question did not properly represent the situation at hand. But we can invite him here to see if he actually supports what you're doing here: @Pbsouthwood:, what say you? MrOllie (talk) 20:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)- This entire comment serves absolutely zero purpose whatsoever. You're parroting what others have already said with no supporting evidence. Along with throwing in an oddly included threat that is completely nonsensical and wholly unwarranted.
- And while I could point out the myriad of ways your claim about what Pbsouthwood said was inaccurate, that would pretty much involve reposting his reply, which is a waste since anyone can already go to his talk page and read it themselves.
- So at this point, if you need that admin to come here and tell you what they already said themselves, more power to you. Would save us all a ton of time to get an authoritative answer on this, especially with another admin holding the opposite view point, in spite of the specific policy wording. Sxbbetyy (talk) 23:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- No matter how much you insist otherwise, there does not need to be an established consensus for the removal of content. Drop the stick. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not the one insisting otherwise...this report only exists because an admin told me otherwise. And as I've posted in my previous replies, the wording in the policies clearly support that. Makes me question how many have actually bothered to really read these policies... Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- The other admin told you nothing about the removal of WP:SYNTH, which is always appropriate. Back away from the dead horse. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- This report is not an extension of the dispute discussion for that article, if you want to involve yourself in that discussion, do so there, do not hijack this report.
- The disputed content is plainly not WP:SYNTH as I explain on the talk page in great length, with nobody thus far having provided valid examples as to how it is.
- If you are going to make the claim that any WP:SYNTH concerns warrant immediate reversion without consensus, please feel free to share the quote in the relevant policy that says this. I have not found any such wording and instead found that what is present matches up with what PBsouthwood informed me.
- Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- The other admin told you nothing about the removal of WP:SYNTH, which is always appropriate. Back away from the dead horse. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not the one insisting otherwise...this report only exists because an admin told me otherwise. And as I've posted in my previous replies, the wording in the policies clearly support that. Makes me question how many have actually bothered to really read these policies... Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Come on, how many people need to tell you you're wrong? Sergecross73 msg me 02:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- No matter how much you insist otherwise, there does not need to be an established consensus for the removal of content. Drop the stick. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- At this point I say that my advice was given without a specific context, and without prejudice. I maintain that it is more collegial and polite to discuss a removal of unsourced but plausible content before removing it, as it can often avoid disputes of this kind, but it is not forbidden to arbitrarily delete content that an editor plausibly considers inappropriate provided the relevant reason is given. It is always the responsibility of the person advocating inclusion to provide a reference when challenged, regardless of the process of challenge.
- Some forms of synthesis are acceptable. If a conclusion is logically inevitable based on undisputed factual premises, or is a simple mathematical calculation, we routinely accept claims that may not be specifically stated in a source, but we may require the logic to be explained, as it may not be obvious to the reader.
- At the risk of being hoist with my own petard, I also refer readers to
WP:Don't be a dick(looks like that essay has been expunged, try Meta:Don't be a jerk). · · · Peter Southwood : 06:59, 20 December 2024 (UTC)- I think many of us used to the mess editors adding unsourced content can create would strongly oppose leaving in unsourced content just because it's plausible. The standard should instead be at a minimum that you believe the claim made is most likely correct and sourceable not simply that it's plausible. Although ultimately such discussions are a little silly anyway. If editors would just add sources rather than leaving it for someone else because they're claiming it's unlikely to be challenged or whatever, there would be a need for others to decide whether to query or remove unsourced content. Nil Einne (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was suggesting tagging with citation needed while you wait a reasonable time for a response, but as we know some of us do not have the patience and just revert. It in not unheard of to know something, but not have a source handy at the time. What is obvious to one may be totally obscure to others. This is acceptable within policy and guidelines. You could start a RfC to have the guidelines changed, but I suspect it would not get through as being a bit bitey. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood : 12:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what you say is true, that's absolutely an acceptable approach. But that's not really the problem at hand here. The bigger issue is that Sxbbetyy appears to be believe that the alternative approach - reverting per STATUSQUO or NOCONSENSUS - is somehow misconduct, and that's simply not true. They're not arguing about if your approach is valid, they're arguing that its compulsory, and they're attempting to report a user for not following your possible approach, which is completely meritless. Sergecross73 msg me 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please do not put words in my mouth. The only reason this report exists is because Peter Southwood advised that this was how I should proceed if the editor participating in this no-consensus reverting continued to do so and was unreceptive to further discussion. (Both are true by admission of PSW themselves). Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I've seen that discussion, but you presented the situation to them entirely in hypotheticals that lacks crucial context. You frame PSW as unwilling to engage in discussion but omit the fact that PSW did engage in extensive discussion already. You accuse PSW of edit warring to keep their information in the article, but omit the fact that you're equally guilty of edit warring, as you're responsible for every single counter-revert in the situation. I would think the near-unanimous rejection of this ANI report would indicate that this was not, in fact, a good thing to report. Best case scenario, this is archived with no action, but I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a WP:BOOMERANG. Sergecross73 msg me 18:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know why you are attempting to present the entire discussion on that talk page as some sort of proof that PSW was willing to engage in further discussion to halt the behavior this report is about. At no point whatsoever did PSW ever indicate anything like that; if they did this report wouldn't exist as the discussions on your talk page or Peter Southwood's page would have never needed to happen. Not to mention if you take the time to actually read the discussion, you see that most of it is on the specifics of the validity of the WP:SYNTH claim made by PSW, eventually culminating in PSW actually asserting that they will not stop change their position on this and then outright refusing to engage any further.
- And now you accuse me of edit warring by citing the entire recent edit history of the page...this isn't fooling anyone who actually bothers to read any of the revert messages and examine the timeline of when they occurred (talk about omitting "crucial context").
- Beyond just slandering my character, I don't really see what these kind of spurious claims accomplish. It wastes everyone's time, makes yourself look biased and hostile, and adds nothing to the conversation. Keep things civil please, I really shouldn't have to tell you of all people that basic expectation. Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Wait...are you seriously trying to suggest that, even though you were the only one who reverted him every single time, he was edit warring and you weren't? Sergecross73 msg me 02:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you are going to continue to twist words and make false claims immediately after being asked to keep things civil, maybe it would be best for all involved if you just moved on from this conversation. Sad that even has to be stated at this point, it should be a given. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yet another IDHT response where you try to baselessly chastize me rather than address anything anyone is saying to you. Sergecross73 msg me 18:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- What a choice to post this exact type reply to my last message... not to mention the sheer absurdity of it. To claim that I've never addressed anyone's points in my replies is so easily and visibly wrong (literally this entire topic is full of my detailed replies to people's concerns, including this very reply) that it's almost insulting to the rest of the people participating in this or to anyone who even chooses to read that message. It's as if you think nobody can see the rest of this discussion (or even the comments directly above it). Sxbbetyy (talk) 11:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yet another IDHT response where you try to baselessly chastize me rather than address anything anyone is saying to you. Sergecross73 msg me 18:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you are going to continue to twist words and make false claims immediately after being asked to keep things civil, maybe it would be best for all involved if you just moved on from this conversation. Sad that even has to be stated at this point, it should be a given. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Wait...are you seriously trying to suggest that, even though you were the only one who reverted him every single time, he was edit warring and you weren't? Sergecross73 msg me 02:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I've seen that discussion, but you presented the situation to them entirely in hypotheticals that lacks crucial context. You frame PSW as unwilling to engage in discussion but omit the fact that PSW did engage in extensive discussion already. You accuse PSW of edit warring to keep their information in the article, but omit the fact that you're equally guilty of edit warring, as you're responsible for every single counter-revert in the situation. I would think the near-unanimous rejection of this ANI report would indicate that this was not, in fact, a good thing to report. Best case scenario, this is archived with no action, but I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a WP:BOOMERANG. Sergecross73 msg me 18:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please do not put words in my mouth. The only reason this report exists is because Peter Southwood advised that this was how I should proceed if the editor participating in this no-consensus reverting continued to do so and was unreceptive to further discussion. (Both are true by admission of PSW themselves). Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what you say is true, that's absolutely an acceptable approach. But that's not really the problem at hand here. The bigger issue is that Sxbbetyy appears to be believe that the alternative approach - reverting per STATUSQUO or NOCONSENSUS - is somehow misconduct, and that's simply not true. They're not arguing about if your approach is valid, they're arguing that its compulsory, and they're attempting to report a user for not following your possible approach, which is completely meritless. Sergecross73 msg me 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was suggesting tagging with citation needed while you wait a reasonable time for a response, but as we know some of us do not have the patience and just revert. It in not unheard of to know something, but not have a source handy at the time. What is obvious to one may be totally obscure to others. This is acceptable within policy and guidelines. You could start a RfC to have the guidelines changed, but I suspect it would not get through as being a bit bitey. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood : 12:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for taking the time to respond and my apology for any inconvenience it may have caused. Ive tried to keep it as civil as possible, but there seems to be a very hostile air in this discussion by those with the dissenting opinion. As for how this situation is to be resolved, would it be appropriate to restore the currently disputed content with the appropriate tags (as it is sourced and was the statusquo on the page at the time of reversion)? Or is there something further that must be done here? I'm generally unfamiliar with how ANIs actually function. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think many of us used to the mess editors adding unsourced content can create would strongly oppose leaving in unsourced content just because it's plausible. The standard should instead be at a minimum that you believe the claim made is most likely correct and sourceable not simply that it's plausible. Although ultimately such discussions are a little silly anyway. If editors would just add sources rather than leaving it for someone else because they're claiming it's unlikely to be challenged or whatever, there would be a need for others to decide whether to query or remove unsourced content. Nil Einne (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- You've still got this backward. You need to show a consensus to keep your content in the article, as everyone else has been telling you. WP:ONUS is directly on point, and I'll quote it here:
- Have you considered starting an WP:RFC? The fact is that you made a WP:BOLD addition to the article; someone else objected to it, which means you now ought to seek consensus for your addition. As numerous people have told you, none of the relevant policies and guidelines (WP:ONUS, WP:BRD, WP:QUO, etc) would allow you to make a recent addition the "default" the way you want, but more generally - the problem is that you're trying to dig through policy for something that will make your preferred version the default, allowing you to have it in the article without having to demonstrate consensus for it even in the face of challenges. Even if the policies and guidelines I listed were on your side this would still be a bad way to approach it. You have a conflict, your goal should be to resolve it by making consensus as clear as possible - figuring out what the crux of the dispute is and then, if you can't reach a compromise, holding an RFC to see where consensus lies. Also, I have to point out that just by a quick nose count of people who have weighed in on talk, I'm seeing a dispute that is now three-to-one against you. That is a consensus - not a massive one, maybe an RFC will pull in a bunch of people that say something else, but it doesn't make sense for you to keep demanding a consensus to remove something you added when there actually is such a consensus on talk. You've disagreed with their arguments but they're not obliged to WP:SATISFY you; ultimately if you think your arguments are so strong and theirs are so weak, the only real option for you at this point is to start an RFC and hope that you can demonstrate that there. --Aquillion (talk) 04:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned earlier in the discussion, this report is not an extension of the dispute on that article, nor is that what this report is about. Also, a RFC was already started for the topic about a week or so ago by PSW, but that occurred after he reverted the status quo, disputed content with discussion (repeatedly). As for the rest of your comment, Peter Southwood, an admin, has addressed what is the actual expectation. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- What? I never started an RfC. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 19:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just checked and on 12/9/24 at Serge's talk page you said the following, "Thanks – just wanted to mention I requested comments from WP Internet Culture and WP YouTube about 2 weeks ago."
- Did that not actually happen? Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:RFC is a specific process. Asking questions on a couple of Wikiprojects is not an RFC. MrOllie (talk) 02:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- That's fundamentally not what an RFC is. This is getting ridiculous... Sergecross73 msg me 03:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's almost like this is the very first time I've ever been involved in this kind of issue on Misplaced Pages before...seriously these kind of replies come off as rude and don't actually say anything meaningful or helpful. Ever since our conversation on your talk page you have made next to no real effort to engage in good faith and I find that highly disappointing to be coming from an admin. And my apology if I offended you at all at some point or if you have just "lost your patience" with me, but I don't see how that gives you the green flag to suddenly disregard WP:Civility. I certainly haven't, in spite of being on the receiving end of this. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I haven't said anything uncivil, I just keep calling you out when you say something incorrect. Sergecross73 msg me 18:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Cunningham's Law, is a powerful force, I find it difficult to resist myself. MrOllie (talk) 18:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I haven't said anything uncivil, I just keep calling you out when you say something incorrect. Sergecross73 msg me 18:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's almost like this is the very first time I've ever been involved in this kind of issue on Misplaced Pages before...seriously these kind of replies come off as rude and don't actually say anything meaningful or helpful. Ever since our conversation on your talk page you have made next to no real effort to engage in good faith and I find that highly disappointing to be coming from an admin. And my apology if I offended you at all at some point or if you have just "lost your patience" with me, but I don't see how that gives you the green flag to suddenly disregard WP:Civility. I certainly haven't, in spite of being on the receiving end of this. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- What? I never started an RfC. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 19:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned earlier in the discussion, this report is not an extension of the dispute on that article, nor is that what this report is about. Also, a RFC was already started for the topic about a week or so ago by PSW, but that occurred after he reverted the status quo, disputed content with discussion (repeatedly). As for the rest of your comment, Peter Southwood, an admin, has addressed what is the actual expectation. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Request for closure
Despite its large size, the consensus here is quite clear. There's no misconduct here, just standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO and WP:NOCONSENSUS, which is perfectly acceptable. Not a single person has suggested taking any action towards PerfectSoundWhatver. Outside of a a potential IDHT BOOMERANG, there's nothing left to be done here. Can someone close this? Sergecross73 msg me 14:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I second that. If there has been any edit-warring by any party that should be dealt with in the normal way. PerfectSoundWhatever has certainly done nothing wrong, and the OP will get blocked if they don't start listening to people pretty quickly. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. And even that's probably unlikely, as most of the "edit warring" was singular reverts with days or weeks in between. It's far from a 3RR situation at least. Sergecross73 msg me 15:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I don't think this conversation is going anywhere fast, other than seemingly coming to the conclusion that @PerfectSoundWhatever has done nothing wrong, which seems to be the opposite of what this ANI post was about. There's no edit warring here, and even if there was, it wouldn't be dealt with at this venue. Shut it down! RachelTensions (talk) 16:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- In what way whatsoever is this editor's decision to revert the disputed content during the discussion "standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO"? The literal first words that appear at that link are in bold and say, "Avoid reverting during discussion", followed by a detailed explanation of the actual proper procedure. And to make it very clear what it says, here is the literal first paragraph verbatim: "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages,
{{under discussion inline}}is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)- In what way is that your read of the consensus in the discussion above? Sergecross73 msg me 02:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- In what world do you logically come to that conclusion from a message that consist of almost entirely the word for word quote of the procedures described in WP:STATUSQUO, that directly counters the claim you just made? Are you saying it is "against consensus" simply because it presents a viewpoint you don't like and don't want to address? I don't see another reason why you would again twist my words, to the point of lunacy. And this is, once again, despite the fact that all of what has been said is literally within view.
- Also, regarding the consensus. Out of everyone that has actually joined the discussion and all the messages sent (~90% of which are either from myself or you Serge), there have been only three people who have actually said anything in support of your interpretation of this. The rest either did not discuss the topic, did not express an opinion, or were Peter Southwood who supported the interpretation of WP:STATUSQUO as stated on its page. Seems like you're just trying to rush a end to the conversation to get the conclusion you want. Sxbbetyy (talk) 15:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm saying there has been no consensus for anything you're arguing here. Not a single person has supported action against PSW. Sergecross73 msg me 15:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The status quo ante bellum that shouldn't be reverted from is the version without the new content. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- In what way is that your read of the consensus in the discussion above? Sergecross73 msg me 02:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Mgtow definition
Editor was pointed to the talk page and then stopped editing. It looks like this was a case of WP:GRENADE. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are blatant lies in the wiki definition of "mgtow". The goal is accuracy, not "man bashing". Camarogue100 (talk) 14:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Camarogue100, you should discuss this at Talk:Men Going Their Own Way. This noticeboard is for conduct issues, not content issues. Schazjmd (talk) 14:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nothing wrong with the definition of MGTOW. Maximum Gross Takeoff Weight is an internationally accepted and used term used by every airplane and airline in the world. Canterbury Tail talk 16:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- The cintent is incorrect. Mvto is NOT "misogynistic". There is no "hate" towards women, only avoidance. Camarogue100 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Camarogue100, you were directed to the talkpage, which includes an FAQ on the term you keep trying to remove, along with extensive discussion. You should start there before just removing sourced content that you don't like. We'll leave aside the absence of required notifications to Black Kite and myself who have warned you for your conduct. Acroterion (talk) 17:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Where do I find the talk page? Camarogue100 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Camarogue100, I linked it for you in my comment above. Schazjmd (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Where do I find the talk page? Camarogue100 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Camarogue100's removal of material unfavorable to the subject with an edit summary of "typo" indicates to me that they are here to play games, not improve the encyclopedia. Any more disruption should result in an immediate block IMO. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 20:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Creating the need to make 400,000 unnecessary edits
Can we please dp something about editors who make unnecessary changes to widely-used modules, and then need to change 400,000 talk pages to get the same result we had before the change? Thanks to this change from last week, which removed the parameter "living" from the bannershell, we now have more than 400,000 pages in Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters. After the "cleanup" by User:Tom.Reding (and perhaps others), we will have the exact same result as we had last week, no new functionality, no new categories, no improvement at all, but a lot of flooded watchlists.
I tried to get him to stop at User talk:Tom.Reding#Cosmetic edits, to no avail. This isn't the first time, as you can see from that discussion. Fram (talk) 14:57, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you want to discuss {{WikiProject banner shell}}, you should do so at Template talk:WikiProject banner shell.
- As for the size of the category, I have no plans to empty it, and was only going to update a few hundred more categories and templates. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 15:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- You made nearly 2000 of such edits in the last few hours, and when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries. I have no way to know how many more you planned now or in future runs. Starting a discussion at the module would hardly stop you. Fram (talk) 15:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- "
when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries
": incorrect. Since you wrongly thought I was making cosmetic edits, i.e. "no change in output or categories
", the category was to inform you that they are not cosmetic. - Regarding a BRFA for the bulk of the category, that's looking more likely since the category appears to be neglected. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 15:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Unnecessary removing a synonym and then making thousands of edits to remove the hidden cat created by that unnecessary change is not really any better than making cosmetic edits, the end result is that nothing has changed for the affected pages at all. Fram (talk) 15:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not unnecessary. The Lua code is very complex and removing the need the support various settings makes the code both easier to read and maintain. As always, editors that don't want to see these edits can hide these by hiding the tag "talk banner shell conversion". Gonnym (talk) 12:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn´t look as if the specific code to have these synonyms was very complicated though, the argument that in some cases two synonyms were used on one page with conflicting values was more convincing. And the edits I complained about did not have that tag, so no, even if people knew about hiding that tag, it wouldn't have helped here at all. Fram (talk) 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not unnecessary. The Lua code is very complex and removing the need the support various settings makes the code both easier to read and maintain. As always, editors that don't want to see these edits can hide these by hiding the tag "talk banner shell conversion". Gonnym (talk) 12:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Unnecessary removing a synonym and then making thousands of edits to remove the hidden cat created by that unnecessary change is not really any better than making cosmetic edits, the end result is that nothing has changed for the affected pages at all. Fram (talk) 15:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- "
- You made nearly 2000 of such edits in the last few hours, and when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries. I have no way to know how many more you planned now or in future runs. Starting a discussion at the module would hardly stop you. Fram (talk) 15:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- This was discussed in detail on Template talk:WikiProject banner shell. Ideally these edits would be done by an approved bot so they do not appear on people's watchlists. The main benefit is to merge the
|blp=and|living=parameters. When both are in use, we find they often get conflicting values because one gets updated and the other does not. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)- Isn't it more logical to first have a bot cleanup the unwanted parameter, then remove it from the template, and only then start populating the cat with the somehow remaining or since added instances? In any case, this is a typical bot task and shouldn't be done with massive AWB runs. Fram (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, probably. But we have this mechanism already set up and I assumed Cewbot would deal with these as part of its normal activities. Happy to look at other options - maybe discuss on template talk? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know what this is about, but if the OP is correct, it is totally absurd to edit 400,000 talk pages for a tweak. Discussing at a template talk page monitored by those focused on the template would simply hide the issue. Johnuniq (talk) 03:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Edits like these should always be bots, so they can be filtered from watchlists. There are numerous other editors who have recently engaged in the mass additional of categories to articles which I had to ask them to stop as my watchlist was flooded. GiantSnowman 13:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know what this is about, but if the OP is correct, it is totally absurd to edit 400,000 talk pages for a tweak. Discussing at a template talk page monitored by those focused on the template would simply hide the issue. Johnuniq (talk) 03:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, probably. But we have this mechanism already set up and I assumed Cewbot would deal with these as part of its normal activities. Happy to look at other options - maybe discuss on template talk? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Isn't it more logical to first have a bot cleanup the unwanted parameter, then remove it from the template, and only then start populating the cat with the somehow remaining or since added instances? In any case, this is a typical bot task and shouldn't be done with massive AWB runs. Fram (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Is it just me or are talk pages like Template talk:WikiProject banner shell just perpetual WP:LOCALCONSENSUS issues where a very small number of editors (frequently 5 or less) make major changes that affect thousands of articles, all without involving the broader community through, at minimum, places like Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)? Silverseren 04:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Fram, Tom.Reding, Kanashimi, and Primefac: I got AWB working again. If cewbot would take time for making the changes, and if this needs attention soon, then should I file a request for that particular bot task? —usernamekiran (talk) 06:20, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The robot is in operation... Kanashimi (talk) 09:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- yay! —usernamekiran (talk) 16:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The robot is in operation... Kanashimi (talk) 09:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile, the category has grown to over 800,000 pages. Perhaps next time an RfC to determine whether creating such a large cleanup task is warranted, would be better? Fram (talk) 16:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
User:Augmented Seventh
User:Augmented Seventh is making wholesale reverts of my edits in contravention to guidelines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- You're removing demographic categories and templates by blanking them out; irreligion still deals with religion no matter your argument. That's definitely not compliant with WP:CAT and clearly vandalism. There's no action to take here except that you need to stop removing these categories and templates. Nate • (chatter) 19:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- And you are now required to cite how your edits meet WP:CAT; spamming it in edit summaries is not discussion. Nate • (chatter) 19:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- While doing routine vandal patrol, I came across what seemed to be a hasty and massive removal of content, being done in a very directed and personal manner.
- After looking at the persistent removal, and communicating, I restored the well-drawn categories.
- Hopefully, this is easily resolved.
- Augmented Seventh (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- 43*, do not continue to revert these category removals without discussing them first. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- THere is nothing to discuss. The guidelines are clear. What needs to be done is editors need to be familiar with the cat guidelines. We don't discuss whether the sky is blue do we? 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- THey are not well drawn, it was not hasty, it was not massive, and it was not "personal". It was directed because they all had the same issue. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- 43*, do not continue to revert these category removals without discussing them first. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Editors should not blindly revert. They should be required to understand the guideleines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- And you are now required to cite how your edits meet WP:CAT; spamming it in edit summaries is not discussion. Nate • (chatter) 19:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
I gave up editing because there were too many problems that the wiki communtity is not sorting out. One of them is treating anon editors as second class wikicitizens.
Another problem is "this is how it is so we are going to leave it like this for years and years" and this is at the expense of the quality of WP.
I can't remember the specific category guideline for the edits I did but is the undoing editors need to look it up. Categorisation is something that a lot of editor do not understand. Go and put a notice on WikkiProoject Categorisation and you will fing that there is support for my edits.
WP could be sooo much better. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone" is an indication you should be trying to do better instead of telling us we should do the same. If you're not willing to actually explain why guidelines vindicate your changes, then being right sometimes isn't enough if you want to make things better. Communication is the process, not something ancillary to it. Remsense ‥ 论 02:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- GO and read the guidelines. It does not need discussion. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Discussion is required when other editors ask you questions in good faith in order to resolve present disputes and prevent future ones. Remsense ‥ 论 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Bear in mind this is WP and not social media. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone". 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- No. You brought this here. The WP:ONUS is on you to explain how the guidelines justify your edits, not to say "go look it up". Also
How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone"
- because that's exactly what you said. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)- It's not unreasonable in many cases to link to a very specific passage of a guideline and expect an editor to understand its meaning as regards a pertinent dispute, but you can't just fail to clearly articulate your argument while also insisting it's vindicated somewhere within the full text of a guideline. Remsense ‥ 论 02:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- No. You brought this here. The WP:ONUS is on you to explain how the guidelines justify your edits, not to say "go look it up". Also
- GO and read the guidelines. It does not need discussion. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Content dispute. Bold edits were reverted; next step is discussion, probably at WT:CAT. If there is dispute over interpretation of the guideline you can consider leaving a pointer at WP:VPP. If there are any categories that shouldn't be used at all that can be discussed at WP:CFD. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 03:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- The content dispute could have been discussed on any of the talk pages. Yet it was brought here first. Conyo14 (talk) 06:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- When a content dispute involves several pages it is often though not always best to centralize discussion. Misunderstanding ANIs purpose and bringing content disputes here is a common and understandable error; best just to point people at appropriate WP:DR when that happens. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 06:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- The content dispute could have been discussed on any of the talk pages. Yet it was brought here first. Conyo14 (talk) 06:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Not overly impressed by 43's comments above. But do wish to note that their removal of Category:Corruption from at least one BLP appears to have been correct. The subsequent reversion of that removal is misfortune. Rotary Engine 08:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Unblock request of Rereiw82wi2j
Blocked, blocked, they're all blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The user Rereiw82wi2j was blocked for blanking talk page discussions. They were removing discussions they participated in with an now-vanished account, for the purpose of removing their username from the talk page(which isn't removed via a vanishing). I believe that per WP:VANISH their vanishing needs to be reversed, am I correct? Do they need to be asked to resume using that account?(if they can) 331dot (talk) 20:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- It seems to need reverting because with their previous account, they only edited one article/talk page and when asked what articles they wanted to edit with their new account, they just mention this same article. That violates the entire principle of a clean start account. Liz 23:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Could we revoke TPA per this? ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have revoked their talk page access and declined the unblock request. PhilKnight (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- User has created another account Human82. Lavalizard101 (talk) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also now blocked. GiantSnowman 16:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- There's also User:ResearchAbility now. win8x (talk) 16:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Blocked by PhilKnight. GiantSnowman 16:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- There's also User:ResearchAbility now. win8x (talk) 16:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also now blocked. GiantSnowman 16:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- User has created another account Human82. Lavalizard101 (talk) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have revoked their talk page access and declined the unblock request. PhilKnight (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Could we revoke TPA per this? ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2
- ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This user has engaged in a lengthy display of disruption. Namely through incessant incivility I have noticed they were previously reported for.
Instances such as ordering IP editors to stop editing articles, hostilely chastising them, making personal attacks in edit summary on several occasions, etc. Users such as @Waxworker: and @Jon698: can speak to their experiences, I'll outline mine.
On December 10, I noticed on the article Luca Guadagnino's unrealized projects page several additions were made that didn't adhere to the article's purpose. Zander restored these with an introductory summary rife with bad faith assertions about my intelligence and asserting they'd engage in edit war behavior. For the most part there was an attempt to discuss the issue we had, but ultimately did not see eye to eye. I asserted I'd be escalating the issue to garner more substantive dialogue around it, Zander's response includes a needless "bite me". I made some attempts at engaging the topic at the article's talk page, in addition to WikiProject Film, it was over a week that saw no input. I would go on to state that (at the time) in two days, I would restore the page to it's status quo. I would do so, asking it not to be reverted. Zander reverted anyway, and after another terse interaction, I moved to nominate the article for deletion, finding with the conflicting views of what Unrealized meant, it was too open ended and led to these lists being essentially trivia. Since then, Zander has elected to take an antagonistic approach towards me, making swipes they openly admit add nothing to the discussion threads they're added to, and now that I am putting said comments behind collapsable tables for being offtopic, Zander is now doing the editing equivalent of mockingly repeating me, with edits such as this and this.
This editor displays no interest in conducting themselves cordially or cooperatively on this website. Rusted AutoParts 23:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've given them a warning for canvassing: - The Bushranger One ping only 04:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- And more personal attacks here - The Bushranger One ping only 05:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- And they appear to be continuing editing while ignoring here. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
SPA User:Tikitorch2 back at it on Martin Kulldorff
Hi, all, I'd like some assistance with the SPA User:Tikitorch2, who's been POV pushing on the Martin Kulldorff article since June. A quick view of their extremely short edit history shows that their sole focus is on pushing a vaccine-denialist POV on that and similar COVID-related topics. Started out on the talk page and BLPN, but now they've graduated to edit-warring on the article itself; they were active in June, made a single related edit in October, but now they appear to be back at it. They've already been notified about the CTOP status of COVID-19, and have received an edit-warring warning--to which they were less than receptive. Would appreciate a more permanent resolution, either a COVID-19 topic ban or just an indef considering their SPA status, so they don't just go back into hibernation and then turn up again like a bad penny. (And yeah, given this context, I don't love the implications of the username "Tikitorch2", either.) Thanks, Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 05:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Michael.C.Wright? 173.22.12.194 (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Looks like a duck to me. I'm sending this to SPI. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- SPI says unrelated, so might just be generic disruption. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- What are you implying with regard to my username? My edit history has been limited to trying to correct two red flags that stood out so much that I followed the citations when I was searching these scientists who were in the news for censorship. It has been enlightening learning how wikipedia selectively chooses secondary sources but discourages the use of primary sources to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible.
- For my two attempted contributions to Misplaced Pages, the two red flags were pretty dramatic to prompt me to check out the citations--Sunetra Gupta's article implied more than 1 in 1000 people in England died from Covid in spring 2020 in an effort to discredit her, which was trivially easy to google as untrue. I corrected that without really changing the overall narrative. The article for Martin Kulldorff...I would probably not have spent time looking at the sources or realized how unscientific Kulldorff's critics were had there not been such superfluous "Wikivoice" editorializing and synthesizing suggesting Kulldorff lied in an essay to the public. Tikitorch2 (talk) 06:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Primary sources are not to be used for anything but simple facts about a subject. They absolutely are not to be used
to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible
because that is original research. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)- Not sure why you felt the need to repeat what I said. Maybe I am the sock puppeteer! Tikitorch2 (talk) 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- What I am implying is that such a username in the context of an account pushing COVID-denialist rhetoric that flies in the face of the sources and Misplaced Pages policy is not an accident. Anyway, this editor continues to be a drain of editor time and attention. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Ah an absurd, convoluted, and contrived personal attack. Assuming anyone but you knew tiki torches were present at a political event where someone was killed, why would I choose my username based on that? Tikitorches provide light, warmth, and keep the mosquitos away. I guess its not surprising an editor named writ keeper attacks the editor rather than effectively debating the subject of the edit. Tikitorch2 (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Even if it was a personal attack, making one back isn't going to fly here. Knock it off. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Tikitorch2, your edits are being examined at ANI. This is not a pleasant experience, I'll admit. So, it's best for you not to dig yourself into a hole. I know the instinct is to defend yourself but it doesn't help your situation to come out swinging. It's probably to your benefit to address any concerns that have been raised and say no more than that. Liz 04:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Even if it was a personal attack, making one back isn't going to fly here. Knock it off. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Ah an absurd, convoluted, and contrived personal attack. Assuming anyone but you knew tiki torches were present at a political event where someone was killed, why would I choose my username based on that? Tikitorches provide light, warmth, and keep the mosquitos away. I guess its not surprising an editor named writ keeper attacks the editor rather than effectively debating the subject of the edit. Tikitorch2 (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Primary sources are not to be used for anything but simple facts about a subject. They absolutely are not to be used
Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64
Blocked for one month.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued after block expired. /64 has previously been blocked on December 8th for a week due to "Persistent unsourced genre changes", and 2 weeks on September 7th due to addition of unsourced content. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 10:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.Disruptive editing Movement for Democracy
I've protected the page for 24 hours. @Rambling Rambler and @Hellenic Rebel are both warned against edit warring, including during the course of this discussion. RR, HR, and .82 should follow dispute resolution processes. Further disruptive editing or edit warring after page protection expires will result in blocks. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Hellenic Rebel has been trying for about a month now to put across his own opinion about the party' infobox. An opinion which he cannot back up with any source whatsoever. Although it has been pointed out to him by both the user Rambling Rambler and me, continues the disruptive editing. Ιt is worth noting that although other users made the same "mistake", when the lack of sources to support the addition was pointed out to them, they accepted it and did not continue to try to pass on their own opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Movement_for_Democracy_(Greece)#5/300
https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Movement_for_Democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Disruptive_editing....again
diff3 130.43.66.82 (talk) 19:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is a content dispute, not a conduct dispute. Since discussing the issue on article talk has not worked, please follow dispute resolution processes, such as seeking guidance at WT:GREECE or WT:POLITICS, or going to WP:DRN. voorts (talk/contributions) 19:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Voorts taking a look because I've been tagged. While there may be content elements to it I think this has gone into a behavioural issue, namely due to it being a user actively edit warring without providing sources but instead endlessly insisting on edits that are entirely WP:OR. Rambling Rambler (talk) 20:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is not a problem of content but of behaviour. His claim is original research, is his own conclusion and is not verified by any source. He knows it, has admitted it, and yet he insists on adding it. 130.43.66.82 (talk) 20:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
(nac) Movement for Democracy is a moderately stable DAB page, with which I have been involved. I assume this dispute relates to Movement for Democracy (Greece). Narky Blert (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.Sugar Bear returns with personal attacks
/24 blocked for two weeks. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- 166.181.224.0/19 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))
- Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sugar Bear/Archive
Using the IP range Special:Contributions/166.181.224.0/19, Sugar Bear has returned to Misplaced Pages to disrupt film and music articles. After I recognized this fact and began reverting him, Sugar Bear began a campaign of personal attacks at my talk page, using the IP Special:Contributions/166.181.250.216. Can we get a rangeblock?
There's a decade-plus history of this vandal attacking me, for instance his creation of the username Banksternet. I can spot his contributions quite easily by now. Binksternet (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
.I've blocked the current IP, I may not have time to properly investigate the range right now. Acroterion (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Past disruption from nearby IPs includes the following:
- Special:Contributions/166.182.84.172 was blocked in 2018 and 2019.
- Special:Contributions/166.182.80.0/21 was blocked in 2018 for one month.
- Special:Contributions/166.181.254.122 was blocked in 2020, identifying Sugar Bear.
- Special:Contributions/166.181.253.26 was blocked twice in 2020 for personal attacks.
- Special:Contributions/166.182.0.0/16 was rangeblocked in 2023 for three years. Binksternet (talk) 22:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Past disruption from nearby IPs includes the following:
- I've blocked the current /24 for two weeks, but I see a lot of potential for collateral damage for longer or broader blocks. Acroterion (talk) 22:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Comments by Locke Cole
No support for a block for either party, and filer is fine with closure. Star Mississippi 16:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Involved: Locke Cole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) So I honestly think we should both receive a (24 hr) block for our behavior, but bringing it here for that to happen. This started when I posted a list of "keep" votes with no rationale at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2024 December 21. Comments made by Locke Cole in response to the list include:
Sour grapes are over there, in case you're lost.
- I replied to this with
What?? Voting on an AfD should be policy-based, not just "keep" or "he's too notable". I'm giving evidence to my claim that keep votes were given unnecessarily large amounts of weight when closing this. Yes, I left out the ones with evidence, because that wasn't the point of the list. Again, would you give weight to the five keep votes that just said "keep"? I believe this is the second time I've had to say this to you, but way to WP:ABF.
- I replied to this with
Well, you're already violating WP:DRVPURPOSE #8 by casting WP:ASPERSIONS about other editors. Carry on, I look forward to seeing you blocked for being an idiot.
- And I replied to this one with
Yes, I removed a comment after realizing it violated our aspersions policy. Do you have an issue with that? Feel free to take this to ANI if you want to continue, as it’s clogging up the DRV.
- And I replied to this one with
This user has a long history of behavioral blocks, including six civility blocks over a span of nine years. Since this behavior clearly won't be getting better, bringing it here. It's up to y'all to decide if a BOOMERANG should happen, if we should both be blocked, or only one party gets the hammer. :) EF 02:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that the cited comments are in themselves enough to justify a block. I also note that LC has recently suffered a personal loss. Speaking from experience, I can state that when in deep mourning we are not always at our best. That said, I find LC's block log disturbing.-Ad Orientem (talk) 02:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- While I do get that, and I do respect that and am deeply sorry that happened to them, this behavior has been going on since late 2005, and includes an arbitration request, hence why I brought it directly here. Calling me an "idiot" was 100% an NPA vio, and having a personal loss shouldn't excuse that (also speaking from experience with the loss of my mother from Cancer of unknown primary origin in 2014). This is a rare case where I'll say that a block log should give you an idea of whether this behavior will continue. EF 02:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
bolding policies I've added at the end
- I'll just note that every one of the "policies" you linked to (bar WP:ABF, where I'm pretty sure you wanted WP:AGF) goes to Misplaced Pages:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. Which is very useful and well-thought-out, and by all means should be used as a tool at AfD, but is not policy. It's an essay on policy. There's a difference. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)- Okay then, per that I've removed the list. The comments still stand though. EF 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- While I do get that, and I do respect that and am deeply sorry that happened to them, this behavior has been going on since late 2005, and includes an arbitration request, hence why I brought it directly here. Calling me an "idiot" was 100% an NPA vio, and having a personal loss shouldn't excuse that (also speaking from experience with the loss of my mother from Cancer of unknown primary origin in 2014). This is a rare case where I'll say that a block log should give you an idea of whether this behavior will continue. EF 02:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- So the OP wants themselves and the other party to receive blocks for incivility? Why don't you just stop being rude to each other? Change your own behavior. Opening this discussion is just drawing attention to a few comments that otherwise would have likely been forgotten. I don't see how this post helps the situation at all. Just do better. And if Locke Cole comes to this discussion, I pray this doesn't devolve into bickering. Let's all just get back to editing productively and not taking shots at each other. Liz 05:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t know, maybe I just thought it’d continue and brought it here, likely too early. Is it possible to close this? EF 13:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- From what I read from the DRV, it definitely seemed like it got heated, but it definitely seemed to cool down. Trouts for sure, but I don't see why blocks are necessary. As for you, given that you're asking to be punished, you seem to recognize what you did wrong, and you pledge to not continue this behavior. Just change your password for a day or a week and change it back later; I don't think admin intervention is necessarily warranted. guninvalid (talk) 11:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Though as actual admins above have mentioned, their block history is indeed concerning. guninvalid (talk) 11:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
User talk:International Space Station0
Just officially closing this discussion as the account involved has been globally blocked. If an editor has Spore on your Watchlist and you see this occurring again, contact your local administrator. Liz 06:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user made 500 edits to their user page which were all completely useless (Misplaced Pages:Gaming the system to inflate their edit count) and then once receiving extended-confirmed permissions vandalized Spore (2008 video game) by copypasting another article. Their user page shows them editing and counting to 500. jolielover♥talk 04:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's a WP:DUCK, and I just reported to AIV. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 04:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Would it be possible to put up some kind of filter to alert for this? Something that…say…catches when more than 25 edits are made in a single space (user space for example) or something that would trip if the edits added less than 5 characters consistently? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:B32F:11B9:7980:86CC:720C:8B57 (talk) 05:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- There is a filter for this. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=International+Space+Station0&offset=20241222044736, "New account unusual activity" covers exactly this. win8x (talk) 05:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Would it be possible to put up some kind of filter to alert for this? Something that…say…catches when more than 25 edits are made in a single space (user space for example) or something that would trip if the edits added less than 5 characters consistently? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:B32F:11B9:7980:86CC:720C:8B57 (talk) 05:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- This account has been globally blocked as an LTA so it shouldn't be an issue. Liz 05:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- At what point is it appropriate to selectively delete their hundreds of edits of nonsense from the page history?
- Or is that just something that isn't done? – 2804:F1...A7:86CC (::/32) (talk) 05:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you are talking WP:SELDEL, there is rarely a good reason for it's use at present. If instead you mean WP:REVDEL see WP:CRD and WP:REVDELREQUEST. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 05:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and revdel'd the lot of them, as cut-and-pasting from other articles without proper attribution is copyvio and thus RD1able. Selective deletion (making the edits go away from the history) is probably not going to happen, if it's even technically possible for an article with almost *9500* revisions (I know I'm not going to try!). - The Bushranger One ping only 08:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you are talking WP:SELDEL, there is rarely a good reason for it's use at present. If instead you mean WP:REVDEL see WP:CRD and WP:REVDELREQUEST. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 05:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
POV IP editor and 2024 Kobani clashes
Blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This this IP address engages in BLP and POV pushing with things like this 1 and this 2, and then edit warring and then makes personal attacks like this 3, in a source documenting casualties for all of December instead of the specific date, and then when he is reverted by another editor respond with this. I believe this person is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia, and also the 2024 Kobani clashes article should potentially be given semi-protection status as it's part of the Syrian Civil War which has discretionary sanctions. Thanks. Des Vallee (talk) 05:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh also this. Des Vallee (talk) 05:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Blocked – for a period of 72 hours (User talk:88.243.192.169#Block) and pages protected El_C 13:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Promotional content about Elvenking (band)
There does not appear to be an actionable COI here, just an avid fan. Content issues can be handled through the appropriate channels. @Elvenlegions: please be mindful of musical notability and what Misplaced Pages is and isn't for. Star Mississippi 17:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I noticed a consistent addition of promotional content about an apparently unencyclopedic band, namely Elvenking (band), with articles being also dedicated to each band member (eg.
Aydan Baston and Damnagoras) and their unsold discography, which also got a dedicated template ({{Elvenking}}). I also noticed a weird pattern by User:Elvenlegions, which appears to be either a very big fan or in conflict of interests, as well as other accounts apparently created just to support the band (eg. User:Neverbuilt2last). — Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 05:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am indeed a big fan of the band and am trying to update the band's wikipedia information to make it as accurate as possible so people can learn about the band. I hope this helps support the band and also helps wikipedia readers and users who wish to learn more about the band. Elvenlegions (talk) 06:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- If these musicians are not notable, you can always tag the articles CSD A7. Liz 07:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Understood, Elvenlegions, but Misplaced Pages is not a webhost or a promotional site. If the band, nor its members, nor its discography qualify as notable under the standards we set for musical notability, then the band's fans will have to learn about it elsewhere. Ravenswing 07:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Disruptive editor on When the Pawn...
User User:Longislandtea has repeatedly removed reliably sourced refs to the genres infobox by removing alternative pop simply because they don't believe it to be correct as the ref is "new" and that the artist isn't that genre. I had sent them two warnings now and also explained that's not how this works, so they decided to add more genres with refs that don't even mention the genres they included. I do not believe this editor is going to cooperate. Pillowdelight (talk) 08:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Pillowdelight changed the genre list of When the Pawn... which originally had been a variation of certain genres: Art pop, jazz rock, art rock, alternative rock, jazz pop, chamber pop, all of which are somewhat accurate and agreed upon by various editors of this page over many years. It was changed to just Alt pop, a genre that is used to describe the newer sounds of pop in the early 2010s with Lorde, Sky Ferreira and Lana del rey. It is not a genre that fits the album hence it has never before user:Pillowdelight been described as such beyond what her poor source says, a Fiona Apple revisit (that is not even about When the pawn.. specifically) from a new, small and virtually unheard of web magazine. Sources such as Rateyourmusic, allmusic and Pitchfork are far more accurate and robust and that's why this album has never been described as alt pop. That genre did not exist at the time of the release of the album. The source needs to be accurate, it is not. It's not an album review, it is a fluff article about Fiona Apple by a small web magazine. It's not even about When the pawn... specifically, it makes no sense. I think the other editors agree, it is inaccurate.
- Allmusic and pitchfork are far better sources. I have added both as sources. I didn't change the genre list, I simply changed it back to the genre list that had stood there the longest before user:Pillowdelight changed it a few months ago for the first time, having never touched this page before yet complaining about other editors. Longislandtea (talk) 18:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Longislandtea: I removed the genres because they're unsourced, which I stated in many edit summaries you keep reverting, as well as on your talk page. It doesn't matter that just because you believe a source another user added calling the album alternative pop is incorrect and unreliable because it's "new, small and virtually unheard of" is a ridiculously excuse. Read Template:Infobox album it states — genres must be stated and referenced in the body of the article; personal opinions or original research must not be included. The sources you have added specifically from Pitchfork don't state the genres you've listed. Pillowdelight (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sources need to be legitimate and relevant. Your source is not relevant and it is disputed. Pitchfork is added because they describe the album as an alternative album several times in the review and the genre category is ROCK. What is alternative and rock? Alternative rock. That is how the album was marketed. You can't cherrypick a single article to make a case for a genre that the album absolutely is not in. I will remove the Pitchfork source, that's fine. There's numerous ones including from Allmusic that clearly state that it is an alternative rock album. The album was even added to Misplaced Pages's page for alt rock albums ages ago. This is very uncontroversial. Just having alternative rock is also lacking; jazz fusion, art pop (the album is already added on the wikipedia page for art pop albums) and art rock are accurate too and have been there for ages but alas! Let's get rid of it all to only serve your opinion. Numerous albums have unsourced genres might I add, but the vast of amount of editors agree to it because they know these accurately describe the album, these are the scenes that the album and artist comes from and sourcing for genres can often times be lacking. In that case, rather than trying to look for BAD sources, it's better to agree with the consensus. In our case, we do have sources. Rateyourmusic has been used as a source for adding art pop, alternative rock, jazz pop, fusion, art rock and chamber pop as genres before. Longislandtea (talk) 20:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Here's the page for what is considered acceptable sources Misplaced Pages:Acceptable sources (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs).
- Relevance. Sources must be relevant--there must be some reason for the reader to care about what the author has to say. For example, the opinion of a random individual on the presidency of George W. Bush, as published in a letter to the editor of a major newspaper, is not relevant; and thus should not be included--even though it is published, traceable to its author, and given in a reputable publication. Relevance can be imputed several ways--through explicit personal knowledge, through subject-matter authority, through general notability of the author, through demonstrable correlation with the opinion(s) of a large group of people, etc.
- A large group of people, the editors of When the Pawn...'s page throughout the years, thousands of people on music reviewing sites and numerous music journalists from legitimate publications do not agree with what this one article you cherrypicked states.
- Note that this policy is the minimum standard for inclusion as a reference in Misplaced Pages. Sources may meet this standard and still not be authoritative, reliable, accurate, free from bias, or undisputed. Sources which meet this minimum standard but which fail to meet stricter standards may be used, but should be used with caution. In particular, such sources should be explicitly attributed to their author(s) or publisher(s) in an article's prose (rather than being presented as fact with the author only given in the notes), and disputes considering the source's veracity should be described.
- Meaning you can't just add any genre because some random source says it when it goes against larger and more reliable sources as well as it is controversial.
- Thank you and please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand. Longislandtea (talk) 21:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:NOTVAND. Note that accusing editors of vandalism when they are not, in fact, vandalising can be considered a personal attack, so I'd suggest you strike that comment. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I strike. Longislandtea (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- You didn't actually strike any comments. To do so, do this <s>Comment</s> which will make it look like this
Comment. Liz 22:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand.Longislandtea (talk) 22:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- You didn't actually strike any comments. To do so, do this <s>Comment</s> which will make it look like this
- Okay, I strike. Longislandtea (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:NOTVAND. Note that accusing editors of vandalism when they are not, in fact, vandalising can be considered a personal attack, so I'd suggest you strike that comment. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Longislandtea: How is the source considered not relevant and where was this dispute? AllMusic does not call the album alternative rock at all within its article. Rate Your Music is also not a source it's user generated which is against Misplaced Pages. I really wish an admin would comment on this because this is getting absolutely nowhere. Pillowdelight (talk) 21:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Here's another source describing it as an alternative rock and jazz fusion album
- https://www.the-solute.com/the-solute-record-club-fiona-apple-when-the-pawn/
- Alt pop is not accurate. If you're so adamant about alt pop, please argue why. It is completely inaccurate and you have one singular source over music journalists and music sites. Allmusic does categorize it as alternative rock, Pitchfork has categorized it as rock since 1999 of its release. There was NO Alt-pop at the time. It still isn't. These are different genres. Art pop is not Alt pop. You edited the page one time in October 2024 only to get rid of the genre list that editors agreed upon to add Alt pop which makes no sense whatsoever. Longislandtea (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have now added a new source to the genre list. If you have any problems with the new source, tell me. But it's much more accurate this way. It's still sad to see the whole genre list that was originally there, so much more descriptive and fitting, hacked away but oh well. Longislandtea (talk) 21:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Pitchfork's categorizations mean basically nothing. They have ten categories, one of which is "Pop/R&B", and another of which is "Global". By the way, you should just stop caring about this, because sources misclassify genres of music chronically and everywhere you look. Take your passion to RateYourMusic. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sources need to be legitimate and relevant. Your source is not relevant and it is disputed. Pitchfork is added because they describe the album as an alternative album several times in the review and the genre category is ROCK. What is alternative and rock? Alternative rock. That is how the album was marketed. You can't cherrypick a single article to make a case for a genre that the album absolutely is not in. I will remove the Pitchfork source, that's fine. There's numerous ones including from Allmusic that clearly state that it is an alternative rock album. The album was even added to Misplaced Pages's page for alt rock albums ages ago. This is very uncontroversial. Just having alternative rock is also lacking; jazz fusion, art pop (the album is already added on the wikipedia page for art pop albums) and art rock are accurate too and have been there for ages but alas! Let's get rid of it all to only serve your opinion. Numerous albums have unsourced genres might I add, but the vast of amount of editors agree to it because they know these accurately describe the album, these are the scenes that the album and artist comes from and sourcing for genres can often times be lacking. In that case, rather than trying to look for BAD sources, it's better to agree with the consensus. In our case, we do have sources. Rateyourmusic has been used as a source for adding art pop, alternative rock, jazz pop, fusion, art rock and chamber pop as genres before. Longislandtea (talk) 20:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Longislandtea: I removed the genres because they're unsourced, which I stated in many edit summaries you keep reverting, as well as on your talk page. It doesn't matter that just because you believe a source another user added calling the album alternative pop is incorrect and unreliable because it's "new, small and virtually unheard of" is a ridiculously excuse. Read Template:Infobox album it states — genres must be stated and referenced in the body of the article; personal opinions or original research must not be included. The sources you have added specifically from Pitchfork don't state the genres you've listed. Pillowdelight (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- All of this discussion should be taking place on the article's talk page (which neither editor has used). Schazjmd (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Schazjmd: I'm awaiting for an admin to respond. This conversation is getting nowhere hence the reason why I brought it here in the first place. I've tried to explain to the user on their talk page along with this entire thread and it's getting nowhere. @The Bushranger: you left a comment but could you please share your opinion on the dispute? Or possibly ping an admin who's familiar with music if this isn't your area of familiarity? Pillowdelight (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- There was no reason to bring this conversation here. I talked to you directly but go no real reply or any arguments despite adding sources and explaining why it's not an Alt pop album. I've explained to you well enough. Please stop trying to get admins to ban me simply because I (and other editors) recognize that the genre list that you got rid of was far more fitting. There's a new genre list now with sources but it is not Alt-pop. The album was already added to the wikipedia album pages for Alternative rock and art pop. I'm familiar with these genres and Fiona Apple specifically to know that it's accurate hence why the genre list has been that way for years. If you're adamant about sources, there is a source. Accusing me of not sourcing should be considered a false accusation at this point. Not all sources are equal either and I've tried explaining that to you. Longislandtea (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Pillowdelight, you were given good advice which is to have this discussion on the article talk page which neither editor has posted at yet. This is a content dispute. If no action has been taken yet by an administrator, it's likely because they don't agree with your statement that action needs to be taken. Liz 22:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, will do. Thank you Liz. Pillowdelight (talk) 22:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Schazjmd: I'm awaiting for an admin to respond. This conversation is getting nowhere hence the reason why I brought it here in the first place. I've tried to explain to the user on their talk page along with this entire thread and it's getting nowhere. @The Bushranger: you left a comment but could you please share your opinion on the dispute? Or possibly ping an admin who's familiar with music if this isn't your area of familiarity? Pillowdelight (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Irrelevant sources and unnecessary changes to genre list on When the Pawn... (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
On October 22 2024, User:Pillowdelight (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) changed the genre list that has stood in place for years and has been a variation of the same variety of genres: Art pop, art rock, jazz, alternative rock, jazz rock, chamber pop and jazz pop. Across the biggest music sites, this is what the album is described as. The user changed it to Alt pop using a single irrelevant and unreliable source. The album is not described as such anywhere else. The user is going against the general consensus. Sources have now been added to the genre list and I don't feel as though that would mean I'm breaking any rules. The user is threatening to get another editor banned because they're uncooperative with how us other editors feel the genre list should look like. It's an album that has been categorized as rock by Pitchfork at the time of its release and was added to rock charts when released too. Here's how the genre list has looked over a long period of time, without much controversy from editors not readers: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1178937091 from 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1049316366 from 2021
Thank you. Longislandtea (talk) 19:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Why do people have to argue about what genre music is rather than just listening to it, and hopefully enjoying it? Phil Bridger (talk) 19:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- The genre list was fine and accurate and uncontroversial until this user decided to remove the entire thing. It's important that the genre list is accurate. People find albums through genres. There's other reasons as well. Longislandtea (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is neither here nor there, but I thought albums are generally sorted in alphabetical order by band name or the musician's last name.
- Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or my information is incomplete. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 22:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was trying to explain the important of listing genres accurately. If you go to a record store then yes, albums are listed in alphabetical order. But they're still put in categories of genres. Longislandtea (talk) 22:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- If we were going to list musical genres "accurately," we wouldn't bother at all. Except in very broad strokes ("rock," "punk," "Baroque," etc), so many of these horribly subjective "genres" are made up by bored media writers and bands that hate the notion of being The Same As Everyone Else. Get ten people to listen to ten different tracks of heavy metal, and you won't get as many as a third of them agreeing on any of them on the doom/grudge/dark/death/Goth/Viking/sludge/*-grind/*-core/etc etc etc spectrum. Beyond that, arguing whether any given artist is "that genre" is very highly subjective. (Hell, I've sung Baroque, classical, folk, rock, ethnic, shape note, so many genres I can't readily count.) Ravenswing 15:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was trying to explain the important of listing genres accurately. If you go to a record store then yes, albums are listed in alphabetical order. But they're still put in categories of genres. Longislandtea (talk) 22:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- The genre list was fine and accurate and uncontroversial until this user decided to remove the entire thing. It's important that the genre list is accurate. People find albums through genres. There's other reasons as well. Longislandtea (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Bunch of racist IPs/account
Sent packing. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Anti-Turkish sentiment
- GREEKMASTER7281 (talk · contribs)
- 112.202.57.150 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
- 186.154.62.233 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
Beshogur (talk) 13:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Named account indeffed, IPs blocked for 72 hours each. GiantSnowman 14:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Urgent need for page protection on BLP
Protection applies. Appears admin eyes are on the Talk page. Star Mississippi 19:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There is currently a content dispute going on at Kay Granger involving allegations of a mental health crisis with mulitple IPs involved in a dispute over wether the information is reliable or not. A discussion is underway on the article's talkpage, but in the meantime there is revert warring taking place on the article. The page could really benefit from temporary semi protection. -- Lenny Marks (talk) 18:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like User:Schwede66 got it. DMacks (talk) 19:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @DMacks: Thanks! Yeah. I assume they will also need a third-party closer given the heated nature of the argument. -- Lenny Marks (talk) 19:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Multiple users breaking 3RR on Gilman School article
Two users are actively engaged in an ongoing edit war on Gilman School, with both Counterfeit_Purses (talk · contribs · logs · block log) breaking 3RR 1, 2, 3, 4 and Statistical_Infighting (talk · contribs · logs · block log) being right at 3 Reverts 1, 2, 3.
This seems to go back to December 9th, with the first editor (Counterfeit) removing it here and here, again on the 17th, 18th, and then being at the above today.
- E/C applied. Star Mississippi 19:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Counterfeit Purses, please be aware that the Luigi Mangione article was kept in a recent Articles for Deletion debate, so the consensus of the community is that he is notable. Edit warring to keep his name off the alumni list is a really bad idea. Cullen328 (talk) 20:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Cullen328 No problem, I've already given up. I would argue that WP:NOTNEWS applies here, but there's no sense in pushing against the tide. If you're content to have the lede section of Gilman School include "prominent graduates including "alleged murderer Luigi Mangione", I guess that's fine. It seems to be an unusual thing to include and an obvious case of undue weight given to something that is in the news at the moment. Perhaps someone should start a Wikiproject to add famous murderers to the ledes of other schools? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Counterfeit Purses, in my view, WP:NOTNEWS is among our most misunderstood policy documents. It begins
In principle, all Misplaced Pages articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events.
I believe that Mangione is notable, the evolving article is acceptable, and his name belongs in the alumni list. Many, many "bad people" are listed as alumni in countless school articles, and it is not at all unusual. The only unusual thing here is that the lead of this particular school article lists alumni, and so I have removed them from the lead. Cullen328 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)- I'm glad that misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS is so common because I am going to continue to misunderstand it. I see that Liz removed Luigi Mangione from the lede before you removed the rest of the list. Acknowledging again that I have given up hope that Mangione will be removed from this article, let me ask you what you think the purpose of these alumni lists is? Including Mangione is an editorial decision. We don't include all notable alumni in these lists, so why should we include Mangione, and why now? It's too soon to know if he will have lasting relevance. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
We don't include all notable alumni in these lists
Why not? If someone is Wikinotable and went to a Wikinotable school, then they belong in the "Notable alumni" section of that school's page, Q.E.D. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)- @The Bushranger I'm not saying "we shouldn't", I'm saying "we don't". We don't include every notable alumnus in these lists, nor should we because it would lead to long, unhelpful lists stuck in the middle of articles about the schools. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- If an alumni list bloats an article, it can be split out. See Category:Lists of people by school affiliation. 11:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) (Oops, signing) Narky Blert (talk) 16:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Of course that's always an option, but what I am saying is that it isn't desirable to have every alumnus listed in an article for a school. Ideally, it would be a selection of alumni who have made significant achievements in their field. Otherwise, it's just trivia. Am I wrong? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. You're making a value judgment that some alumni (with articles, else they most definitely should not be included) are more notable than others. That is WP:OR. Narky Blert (talk) 20:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that's called editorial judgment. Just like deciding not to include every known fact about something in an article. At some point, it is just trivia. Misplaced Pages is not a database. That info would probably be welcome over on Wikidata, which is a database. Alternatively, someone could just add Category:Gilman School alumni (in this case). Counterfeit Purses (talk) 20:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- And a new user, who doesn't understand categories and has no idea Wikidata exists, is relying on the list on the page. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that's called editorial judgment. Just like deciding not to include every known fact about something in an article. At some point, it is just trivia. Misplaced Pages is not a database. That info would probably be welcome over on Wikidata, which is a database. Alternatively, someone could just add Category:Gilman School alumni (in this case). Counterfeit Purses (talk) 20:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. You're making a value judgment that some alumni (with articles, else they most definitely should not be included) are more notable than others. That is WP:OR. Narky Blert (talk) 20:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Of course that's always an option, but what I am saying is that it isn't desirable to have every alumnus listed in an article for a school. Ideally, it would be a selection of alumni who have made significant achievements in their field. Otherwise, it's just trivia. Am I wrong? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- If an alumni list bloats an article, it can be split out. See Category:Lists of people by school affiliation. 11:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) (Oops, signing) Narky Blert (talk) 16:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @The Bushranger I'm not saying "we shouldn't", I'm saying "we don't". We don't include every notable alumnus in these lists, nor should we because it would lead to long, unhelpful lists stuck in the middle of articles about the schools. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm glad that misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS is so common because I am going to continue to misunderstand it. I see that Liz removed Luigi Mangione from the lede before you removed the rest of the list. Acknowledging again that I have given up hope that Mangione will be removed from this article, let me ask you what you think the purpose of these alumni lists is? Including Mangione is an editorial decision. We don't include all notable alumni in these lists, so why should we include Mangione, and why now? It's too soon to know if he will have lasting relevance. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Counterfeit Purses, in my view, WP:NOTNEWS is among our most misunderstood policy documents. It begins
- @Cullen328 No problem, I've already given up. I would argue that WP:NOTNEWS applies here, but there's no sense in pushing against the tide. If you're content to have the lede section of Gilman School include "prominent graduates including "alleged murderer Luigi Mangione", I guess that's fine. It seems to be an unusual thing to include and an obvious case of undue weight given to something that is in the news at the moment. Perhaps someone should start a Wikiproject to add famous murderers to the ledes of other schools? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Counterfeit Purses, please be aware that the Luigi Mangione article was kept in a recent Articles for Deletion debate, so the consensus of the community is that he is notable. Edit warring to keep his name off the alumni list is a really bad idea. Cullen328 (talk) 20:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64, yet again
Genre warrior sent packing. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued the same behaviour immediately following the end of a 3 month block. See block log and the two previous ANI threads from September (1, 2) related to this /64. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 20:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see the genre warriors are out today. Don't you realise how childish you are? (Not you, Waxworker.) Phil Bridger (talk) 20:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I thought I was the only one who noticed how many were running rampant today. So exhausting. . . Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- /64 blocked for six months. Acroterion (talk) 22:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I thought I was the only one who noticed how many were running rampant today. So exhausting. . . Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
User:NoahBWill2002
NOTHERE blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- NoahBWill2002 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
It looks like there's a pretty severe competence is required issue with this user. Virtually every one of their edits has had to be reverted either for adding copyrighted content/derivative works, adding their own art to Fan art (and then doing it again after being warned), or adding personal opinion to articles. Lastly this comment is quite inappropriate and indicates that they're unlikely to learn from any of this.
(As an aside, I just blocked them on Commons for uploading non-free files after warnings (and having copyright/the issue with their uploads explained them in detail) and uploading out-of-scope files after warnings.)
I think admin action is warranted here. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I 100% agree with The Squirrel Conspiracy on this. User:NoahBWill2002 appears completely unable to comprehend and/or follow some of the core rules of Misplaced Pages, especially WP:COPYVIO and WP:NPOV, despite multiple editors trying to help them understand. The comment that Squirrel Conspiracy highlighted, followed by a series of blatant copyright violations, makes it abundantly clear that this editor is not going to change and is not here to build an encyclopedia. Opolito (talk) 22:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- They have only had an account for a few days. It's seems rather soon to proclaim they are "not going to change". The images they were trying to add have been deleted from the Commons, let's see if they can find other ways to contribute to the project now that they can't promote their artwork here. Liz 23:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Given this comment, I'm not sanguine about their intention to contribute productively. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- They added this grossly inappropriate religious screed to Babylon on their third day of editing, then they responded to a warning about it with more proselytizing. I had hoped they would get the message but just today they made this non-NPOV edit apparently based on their religious beliefs. Apart from religious edits, apparently the only other thing they've done is add self-produced fan art to a variety of articles. I'm willing to AGF while they learn what are acceptable edits here but I'd like to see some acknowledgement from them that they understand why all their edits so far have been unacceptable. (It would also show good faith if they would clean up the now-broken links in numerous articles now that their fan art has been deleted from Commons, rather than leaving it for other editors to do.) CodeTalker (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have indefinitely blocked NoahBWill2002 as not here to build an encyclopedia. Cullen328 (talk) 01:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- They have only had an account for a few days. It's seems rather soon to proclaim they are "not going to change". The images they were trying to add have been deleted from the Commons, let's see if they can find other ways to contribute to the project now that they can't promote their artwork here. Liz 23:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Vandal encounter
This IP seems to be a vandal who seems to be ready to start an edit war. I have reverted their disruptive edits, and they have begun to add them back.
I would have put this at AIV, but I have no clue how to edit source. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 23:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Not done - Not an admin - I hate to be that person but unfortunately you've not sufficiently warned them, They've only received one warning and their edits aren't gross vandalism so this would only be declined by an admin anyway, If they continue I'll report them to AIV, Thanks, –Davey2010 23:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. Thank you! This has been noted for the future. Thank you, again! Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome, Happy editing, Thanks, –Davey2010 23:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. Thank you! This has been noted for the future. Thank you, again! Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
User:GDJackAttack1 mass-creating articles for non-notable or nonexistent places
GDJackAttack1 has agreed to no further creation of the problematic articles. Extant ones being handled via usual channels. No further action needed here. Star Mississippi 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GDJackAttack1 (talk · contribs) has been mass-creating stub articles for places such as insignificant residential subdivisions and other localities in Alabama and Maryland (example), islands in the Bahamas and Senegal (example), and other insignificant highways and airports around the world. None of these articles are sourced by anything that verifies notability, just databases and maps, which has resulted in at least one article being pointed out as a map misreading and therefore nonexistent community at this AfD. I can only speculate how many more of these places do not exist and if any of them are phantom settlements.
There are too many of these articles to send through AfD or PROD manually and there is really no point in draftifying them or converting the articles into redirects since we have little proof that these topics are notable or even exist at all. Their talk page consists of nothing but notices of their articles being moved to the draftspace, AfD/PROD notices, and messages informing them to be more careful about article creation, yet they have seemingly ignored these messages and have persisted with spamming these stub articles for no clear reason. Waddles 🗩 🖉 01:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I will stop creating these articles. GDJackAttack1 (talk) 01:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I tagged one as CSD A7 to see if that would work. Bgsu98 (Talk) 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Bgsu98: Thank you, I also considered PROD-ing them all but I noticed you have so already. Waddles 🗩 🖉 02:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think I got all of the ones that that Maryland batch, but I’m sure there are more. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Bgsu98: Thank you, I also considered PROD-ing them all but I noticed you have so already. Waddles 🗩 🖉 02:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
User:Glenn103
Glenn103 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been mass creating unsourced stubs about Cyrillic letters, most of which have been draftified. They've also disruptively edited in the past, such as: ''']''' (talk • contribs) 01:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Most of these pages don't even make any sense (eg.: Draft:Yery with tilde). The user also ignores any notice about his articles being moved to draftspace by simply recreating duplicates of them (eg.: Draft:Tse with caron & Tse with caron). Immediate action may be needed. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 07:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... ''']''' (talk • contribs) 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have blocked them from article space and page moves, and will leave note on talk page to come here. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 15:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... ''']''' (talk • contribs) 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, this almost feels like trolling. Their basic procedure seems to be: pick a random Cyrillic letter. Combine it with a random diacritic. Write a short stub on the combination, saying effectively "this letter combination is not used anywhere." The occasional historical mentions ("this combination was used in such-and-such obscure Siberian language") are completely unsourced, of course. (Everything is unsourced.) Oddwood (talk) 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Excuse me for detracting from the report, but this was your 4th edit, your last edit was in January 2016... how have you found yourself here of all places?
- I mean you might have a point, but wow. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 04:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
TPA for 83.106.86.95
Done. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
83.106.86.95 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Could someone revoke TPA for blocked IP, based on ? LizardJr8 (talk) 02:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Done and revdel'ed, thanks to JJMC89. LizardJr8 (talk) 02:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Can you please help?
William Swainson got moved from William John Swainson (because his middle name might not be John). But the talk page for this person is at Talk:William John Swainson, and the talk page for the disambiguation page is at Talk:William Swainson. I don't know what happened to the disambiguation page, and I don't know how to fix this. Oholiba (talk) 02:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Done Couldn't be moved because the target page had to be deleted; its now fixed. As a note for the future, WP:AN would be a better place for this, since it isn't an 'incident'. That said - was there a dab page at William Swainson before? - The Bushranger One ping only 02:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks to everyone for resolving this. As to the place for this, at some point I was told that "if you're a new user you have no reason to post at WP:AN" or something similar. I appreciate the help. Oholiba (talk) 05:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I think that the disambiguation page's revisions were merged into the history of the moved page, if I'm reading Special:Log/Shyamal correctly.
- @Shyamal, can you confirm what happened/fix this? – 2804:F1...60:4C25 (::/32) (talk) 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, WAS that the intention (merging the histories)? I have no idea how this works.
- Maybe The Bushranger already did all that needed to be done. – 2804:F1...60:4C25 (::/32) (talk) 02:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- (edited): There was a dab page with two entries. It is now a redirect from William Swainson to William John Swainson and the direction is now different. The full histories are (merged) restored and visible. PS: I have added a hat-note to the one other (far less notable) lawyer - William Swainson (lawyer) - if there are many more entries to be dealt with then the (currently a redirect) page at William_Swainson_(disambiguation) could be reinstated/used. Shyamal (talk) 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- (nac) An intitle search turned up no other William Swainson, so I've tagged William Swainson (disambiguation) (which has no significant history) for speedying under WP:G14. Narky Blert (talk) 06:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- (edited): There was a dab page with two entries. It is now a redirect from William Swainson to William John Swainson and the direction is now different. The full histories are (merged) restored and visible. PS: I have added a hat-note to the one other (far less notable) lawyer - William Swainson (lawyer) - if there are many more entries to be dealt with then the (currently a redirect) page at William_Swainson_(disambiguation) could be reinstated/used. Shyamal (talk) 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
POVPushingTheTruth
The truth may set you free, but WP:THETRUTH will get you blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:POVPushingTheTruth is clearly NOTHERE. C F A 05:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Blocked. -- Euryalus (talk)| — Preceding undated comment added 05:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
North Korean involvement in Russian-Ukraine war discussion
The inclusion of North Korea as a belligerent in the infobox for the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" article has been a point of extensive and protracted discussion since September. A formal Request for Comment (RfC) on this matter ran for several weeks and was closed with a clear consensus to include North Korea as a combatant based on reliable sources and expert analysis. However, despite the closure, the discussion has continued unabated across multiple threads, with certain editors repeatedly rehashing resolved points and questioning the validity of reliable sources, leading to significant disruption.
Key Points:
- Prolonged Discussions and RfC Closure:
- The RfC on North Korea's inclusion was conducted thoroughly, with a wide range of arguments presented by both sides.
- The closing administrator, S Marshall, determined there was a clear consensus to include North Korea as a belligerent based on reliable sources and the strength of arguments.
- The close explicitly allowed for reevaluation if new battlefield events or sources emerged, but no substantial new evidence has invalidated the prior consensus.
- Ongoing Disruption:
- Despite the RfC's resolution, the same arguments are being repeated across multiple threads, often by the same editors.
- This behavior includes undermining reliable sources, misrepresenting their content, and insisting on a higher standard of verification (e.g., requiring firsthand evidence of North Korean combat, which is unreasonable given the context).
- Reliable Sources Confirming North Korean Involvement:
- Multiple reputable outlets, including the BBC, Reuters, and Pentagon statements, confirm North Korean military involvement and casualties in the conflict.
- Experts from institutions like Chatham House and RUSI have explicitly stated North Korea's role in combat, aligning with the community's decision.
- Impact on the Community:
- The continued disruption consumes editor time and resources, detracting from the article's improvement.
- These actions disregard Misplaced Pages's consensus-building principles and guidelines for resolving disputes. This dispute has been ongoing for months, with multiple threads being opened and closed on the same topic.
Request for Administrative Action:
I respectfully request that administrators address the following issues:
- Enforce the consensus reached in the closed RfC, as no new evidence significantly alters the previous conclusions.
- Discourage editors from rehashing resolved discussions, particularly when arguments have been repeatedly addressed and dismissed.
- Consider imposing a topic ban or other appropriate measures on editors who persist in disrupting the article with repetitive or bad-faith arguments.
This matter has been discussed exhaustively, and it is essential to prioritize Misplaced Pages's goals of maintaining a high-quality, well-sourced, and consensus-driven encyclopedia. Thank you for your attention to this matter. UPDATE: I just noticed that North Korea was removed as a belligerent and added to the 'supported by' section, completely violating the consensus. Rc2barrington (talk) 08:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Since this report isn't really about an incident and your request is directed towards admins, I think this complaint would be better placed at WP:AN rather than ANI. It will also need more specifics, which articles, which edits, which editors. You'll need to provide that. I also question whether or not these are content standards that the community can't handle on their own. Liz 09:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was going to post it at WP:AN but it said: "This noticeboard is for issues affecting administrators generally – announcements, notifications, information, and other matters of general administrator interest.
- If your post is about a specific problem you have (a dispute, user, help request, or other narrow issue needing an administrator), you should post it at the Administrators' noticeboard for incidents (ANI) instead. Thank you."
- I posted it on ANI beecause my specific problem was this dispute Rc2barrington (talk) 12:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The original post in this thread appears to resemble LLM output. GPTzero confirms this impression, rating text as "99% probability AI generated". Using AI to generate ANI submissions is highly inappropriate. Axad12 (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Even when a message appears to be AI-generated, I think it is worth considering whether or not it is pointing out an actual problem. I think editors might be ignoring the results of an RFC, I just don't think asking for administrators to monitor a subject area, without identifying specific articles, is a feasible solution. It does seem like, possibly, a point that could come up in a complaint at AE regarding the Ukraine CTOP area. Liz 19:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I had a peek and it's a messy RfC and, as is generally the case with a messy RfC had a very involved closure message which seems to reflect that the closer felt constrained by the framing of the RfC. I didn't see any immediate indication in the edit history that anyone had tried to implement the RfC result and been rebuffed (although I might have missed it). So there's some smoke here but, I think, not a ton of fire. Simonm223 (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Liz, I don't disagree but I'm not at all convinced that use of AI is a positive contribution to CTOP areas. Axad12 (talk) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- It was written with AI assistance. Not all AI. ai detectors aren’t considered reliable, because you can put the U.S. constitution through one and it says 100% AI generated. Regardless, whether it’s AI or not has nothing to do with the topic. It’s just that there’a been so many discussions and when I checked the info box it said ‘supported by”, violating the consensus of the RFC Rc2barrington (talk) 12:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think the underlying issue here is that if you use AI to generate text which looks like obvious AI output then readers will wonder "does the end user even have sufficient English to understand what the AI has generated for them?" and "did the end user understand the material prior to deciding to employ AI?". Thus if a user is fluent in English, as you obviously are, it will always be better to communicate in your own voice.
- At the end of the day, a user making a valid point in their own voice is generally speaking going to be taken more seriously than a user employing LLM output.
- There are plenty of other reasons for users not to employ AI (see the recent thread here for extensive coverage) but the argument above seems like a good practical reason for fluent English speakers to always prefer using their own voice.
- You will see from the recent thread that many users here are vehemently against AI use. Axad12 (talk) 15:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understood the material very well, its not like I just used 100% AI out of nowhere. I know the context. I have been involved in this discussion since September. Rc2barrington (talk) 16:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- It was written with AI assistance. Not all AI. ai detectors aren’t considered reliable, because you can put the U.S. constitution through one and it says 100% AI generated. Regardless, whether it’s AI or not has nothing to do with the topic. It’s just that there’a been so many discussions and when I checked the info box it said ‘supported by”, violating the consensus of the RFC Rc2barrington (talk) 12:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Even when a message appears to be AI-generated, I think it is worth considering whether or not it is pointing out an actual problem. I think editors might be ignoring the results of an RFC, I just don't think asking for administrators to monitor a subject area, without identifying specific articles, is a feasible solution. It does seem like, possibly, a point that could come up in a complaint at AE regarding the Ukraine CTOP area. Liz 19:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The original post in this thread appears to resemble LLM output. GPTzero confirms this impression, rating text as "99% probability AI generated". Using AI to generate ANI submissions is highly inappropriate. Axad12 (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Dispute Over Edits and Use of British Raj Sources
Content dispute.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello,
I’m seeking administrator input regarding a dispute with @Ratnahastin over the content in the the "Kamaria Ahir" article. The editor removed significant content, citing User:Sitush/CasteSources as justification. Here are my concerns:
1. Misapplication of Policy:
Sitush’s essays are not official Misplaced Pages policy. Content decisions should follow WP:RS, WP:NPOV, and WP:VERIFIABILITY.
2. Dismissal of Reliable Sources:
The removed content was based on British Raj-era sources, which are neutral and historically significant. The editor claims these are unreliable without specific evidence or discussion on the article’s talk page.
3. Unilateral Edits and Dismissive Behavior:
Despite my attempts to discuss the matter constructively, the editor dismissed my concerns as "AI-generated" and warned me about sanctions under WP:GSCASTE and WP:ARBIPA, discouraging collaboration.Check here for the warning
Evidence:
Request for Administrative Action:
1. Review the removed content and the editor’s justification.
2. Ensure that disputes are discussed on the article’s talk page.
3. Address the editor’s dismissive tone to foster collaboration.
4. Prevent further disruptive edits/vandalism by IP editors (which hasn't happened yet) And from Autoconfirmed users(e.g. @GrilledSeatJet , -Their Diff) and even from Extended Autoconfirmed users(@Ratnahastin) by banning such editors and putting an extended protection on the Article which I have once put request (please find it here) for but it got denied and now the results are as follows.
Thank you for your time and attention. I’m happy to provide further information if needed.
Best Regards
--- Nlkyair012 (talk) 10:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.Nothing to say about me really bot
Locked (non-admin closure). C F A 13:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- WilhelminaBlosse (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Please delete the user page, block the bot and report to stewards for a global block, as per m:NTSAMR. Thank you! 81.2.123.64 (talk) 11:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.Concern About a New Contributor
Kriji Sehamati (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Dear Wikipedians,
I hope you’re doing well. I wanted to inform you about a new contributor @Kriji Sehamati, despite lacking experience, has repeatedly attempted to vandalize multiple articles. These articles were properly aligned with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and reviewed by experienced contributors, but he/she seemed unwilling to understand or respect their adherence to the policies.
I believe your experience could help address this situation effectively.
Looking forward to your advice on how to proceed.
Thankyou! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- "Vandalize" is a very loaded word here with a specific meaning. As far as I can tell, what they've done is nominate 4 articles for deletion, and your response has been to accuse them of vandalism, ignoring dispute resolution procedures and making personal attacks – none of which I can see at a glance through their contributions.
- Perhaps if you supplied evidence of this behaviour, someone would be able to help? If your issue is that they've nominated 4 articles of which you are a major contributor and are doing so by going through your contributions in order to find articles to nominate for deletion with specious reasons, then this board would be the place to come. If not, then making your arguments for keeping the articles on the AfDs in question would be your best bet.
- By the way is forum shopping. Stop that. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- (ec) This is an odd one. As S-Aura failed to provide diffs, I looked at Kriji Sehamati's contribution history. New account (9 Dec) began editing today, created two drafts and made a bunch of edits to those. Then began adding COI tags to articles S-Aura wrote, nominated those articles for deletion, and then left a possible UPE template on S-Aura's talk page. Really seems to be something weird going on here between those two. (In addition to opening this ANI thread, S-Aura asked for help with basically the same message on the talk pages of Ipigott, Ryan shell, CFA, and BusterD, and S-Aura opened same complaint at AN.) Schazjmd (talk) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am concerned that User:Kriji_Sehamati’s actions, including unjustified deletion nominations and spamming, are disruptive and violate Misplaced Pages’s guidelines.
- She seems to lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related WP:GNG and WP:NPOL. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- You were asked to provide diffs. You did, almost, here but then reverted yourself. Those diffs (well, the ones before those diffs) are just the other user nominating articles for deletion (which is allowed) or tagging them for what they believe to be conflict of interest edits (which is also allowed).
- Please provide some actual evidence that the other user is engaging in chronic, intractable behaviour, rather than just not editing how you would like them to. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Here are some diffs highlighting her problematic edits. However, I believe that many of her contributions may be in violation of Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. It appears she has specifically targeted me and added the COI tag multiple times to the same page. I would appreciate it if you could review her actions more thoroughly:
- •
- •
- •
- •
- and many more
- Thankyou! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- We wouldn't generally treat an AfD as vandalism. Simonm223 (talk) 17:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand your point about AfDs not generally being treated as vandalism. However, I noticed that the major contribution history of the user seems suspicious. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not from where anybody else is standing so far. I get that you're upset to have four articles of yours nominated for deletion, and if you have any evidence at all that you are being deliberately targeted by the other editor, then people will very much act on that. Please provide it. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am here to contribute and edit articles in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. However, today a new user targeted me and falsely blamed me for actions that are not accurate. I believe this is unfair and not in line with the collaborative nature of the platform. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please provide evidence of this. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please check! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The articles that have been nominated for deletion discussion have been reviewed by experienced contributors. These discussions involve articles about judges and lawyers, under WP:NPOL, a valid criterion according to Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. Therefore, the deletion decision was made after carefully reviewing these articles. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Honestly it looks like this user, rightly or wrongly, believes you have a conflict of interest and are acting on the basis of that assumption. I would suggest, if you don't have a CoI, talking to them about this and maybe asking why they've come to this conclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 18:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- They have just started targeting my contributions, and I tried to inform her about the situation. However, she is acting as if she knows everything about Misplaced Pages and is dismissing my concerns. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please check! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please provide evidence of this. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am here to contribute and edit articles in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. However, today a new user targeted me and falsely blamed me for actions that are not accurate. I believe this is unfair and not in line with the collaborative nature of the platform. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not from where anybody else is standing so far. I get that you're upset to have four articles of yours nominated for deletion, and if you have any evidence at all that you are being deliberately targeted by the other editor, then people will very much act on that. Please provide it. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand your point about AfDs not generally being treated as vandalism. However, I noticed that the major contribution history of the user seems suspicious. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- We wouldn't generally treat an AfD as vandalism. Simonm223 (talk) 17:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Kriji Sehamati: hasn't edited since their AfD spree earlier today, let's wait and see what their response here is when they return to editing. Schazjmd (talk) 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- We need to stop focusing on the OP's calling this vandalism; it is not. I've changed the header to reflect that. That said, the new user's edits are problematic and merit scrutiny. As for the UPE stuff, I've removed that post from the OP's Talk page; it's nonsensical coming from a new user and does not merit a response.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is, of course, not vandalism to nominate articles for AFD discussions as long as a legitimate deletion rationale is provided and the article hasn't just been discussed at a recent AFD. However, I don't think it's a good sign when a brand new editor claims to understand all of Misplaced Pages policies and whose first actions are to nominate articles at AFDs. They are almost never an actual new editor, especially when they know how to even set up an AFD or are familiar with using Twinkle on their first day of editing. Liz 19:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- It seems that she is not new to Misplaced Pages and might be operating multiple accounts. It appears she has an issue with one of my contributions, as she created her account just 15 days ago, yet she already has a good understanding of tools like Twinkle and AfD procedures. This level of familiarity suggests prior experience on the platform. I am now requesting her account to be blocked as I am completely disturbed by her repeated allegations and disruptive behavior. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am now genuinely confused—if all my contributions are not good, then why am I even here? Were the experienced editors who reviewed and approved these pages also mistaken? A newcomer, who joined just recently, is now disrupting and questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors. This situation is deeply discouraging. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please resolve this situation—either block her for her disruptive behavior. How can i continue working under such constant targeting and stress ? 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 12:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:S-Aura, you seem to be making unsupported personal attacks against User:Kriji Sehamati. You should provide specific evidence of wrongdoing, including diffs, or your arguments here will fall on deaf ears (and bring consequences for you). Meanwhile, as a filer on ANI, you have brought all your own edits to close scrutiny by the community. You may have to face that smart people disagree, and this is how we sort disagreements out on English Misplaced Pages. You are not required to edit, but we encourage you to do so. Nobody is going to block Kriji Sehamati at this point, because you've given us no reason to do so. BusterD (talk) 12:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile, in the last few minutes S-Aura has disruptively created a second thread about this exact issue on this same board, which was reverted by another editor. This is intentional disruption. BusterD (talk) 12:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- As to the question "Why am I here?", poets and artists have been trying to answer this question for eons. Epistemology is outside the scope of this board, but there are articles about it. Show up to edit if you want to, but expect disagreement from time to time. (That's actually a sound answer to any epistemology question as well.) BusterD (talk) 12:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Dear @BusterD,
- It means I have been proven wrong, and that user’s contributions have been more focused on me, which is quite insufficient to catch someone’s lie that she is pretending to be new, when in fact she is old.
- Also, I am not against AfD; I am simply expressing my opinion. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Could you please rephrase your point here? I don't understand. While it's okay to be suspicious that this editor is somehow socking or doing something else deceptive due to the familiarity, it seems unacceptable to deliberately accuse them of such repeatedly without firmer evidence. Remsense ‥ 论 13:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Dear @Remsense,
- I am not engaged in paid activities on Misplaced Pages, and she claimed that I am connected with the subject, who is a judge, lawyer, etc. You all should understand that this is not a trivial matter; justice is a very respected position. Making such allegations can escalate court cases. I would like to remind you of the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI case. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- One thing you need to understand immediately is you should never make another post that sounds vaguely like a legal threat, as you've just done above. Seriously. That intonation is seriously not helping us decide who's right or wrong here. Remsense ‥ 论 13:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I will caution you that this is tiptoeing right up to the edge of WP:NLT and you'd be advised to avoid making legal threats. Simonm223 (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Dear @Simonm223,
- I am merely showing that she can potentially do something inappropriate. I am following the guidelines and not making any legal threats. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Accusing another editor of potentially making legal threats is not much better, when there is no concrete evidence that they would do so. Being interested in articles about judges does not suffice. Remsense ‥ 论 13:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The page of Justice Subramonium Prasad, who had conducted over the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI court hearing, was also created by me. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
State plainly what the implication you are making here is, because what I'm hearing is "I'm familiar with people who have hit Misplaced Pages with a mallet in court before, and I can make sure it happens again".Remsense ‥ 论 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)- This is becoming a rabbit hole. I urge you not to pursue the rabbit further. BusterD (talk) 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good call, I'll retract the above. Remsense ‥ 论 13:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No, that is not what I am implying. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is becoming a rabbit hole. I urge you not to pursue the rabbit further. BusterD (talk) 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Could you please rephrase your point here? I don't understand. While it's okay to be suspicious that this editor is somehow socking or doing something else deceptive due to the familiarity, it seems unacceptable to deliberately accuse them of such repeatedly without firmer evidence. Remsense ‥ 论 13:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile, in the last few minutes S-Aura has disruptively created a second thread about this exact issue on this same board, which was reverted by another editor. This is intentional disruption. BusterD (talk) 12:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:S-Aura, you seem to be making unsupported personal attacks against User:Kriji Sehamati. You should provide specific evidence of wrongdoing, including diffs, or your arguments here will fall on deaf ears (and bring consequences for you). Meanwhile, as a filer on ANI, you have brought all your own edits to close scrutiny by the community. You may have to face that smart people disagree, and this is how we sort disagreements out on English Misplaced Pages. You are not required to edit, but we encourage you to do so. Nobody is going to block Kriji Sehamati at this point, because you've given us no reason to do so. BusterD (talk) 12:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No one has said your contributions are not good. However, it should be noted that a draft being accepted at AfC or a new page having been patrolled does not guarantee greater scrutiny would not result in a valid AfD nomination. That said, echoing others here it's clear something problematic is up with this user's behavior. Remsense ‥ 论 12:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please resolve this situation—either block her for her disruptive behavior. How can i continue working under such constant targeting and stress ? 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 12:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You can't both criticize someone for
lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related WP:GNG and WP:NPOL
, and then argue that she is too familiar with the platform to be a newcomer for knowing how to file an AfD. I wouldn't be surprised if most people here knew how to file an AfD before knowing all 14 notability guidelines by heart. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)- There are detailed instructions on filing an AfD that can be found by googling "how can I get a Misplaced Pages page deleted" - if somebody had some personal reason for wanting to have pages removed it doesn't strain credibility to think that's why they created a WP account and that they just followed the very clear instructions on the appropriate pages.
- In fact that might explain why some of the AfD filings were reasonable and some were, on their face, incorrectly filed. If you looked up the AfD process but not criteria that is the likely outcome. That's why I find the "new user files AfDs must be a sock" idea here somewhat uncompelling. Simonm223 (talk) 13:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am now genuinely confused—if all my contributions are not good, then why am I even here? Were the experienced editors who reviewed and approved these pages also mistaken? A newcomer, who joined just recently, is now disrupting and questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors. This situation is deeply discouraging. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- It seems that she is not new to Misplaced Pages and might be operating multiple accounts. It appears she has an issue with one of my contributions, as she created her account just 15 days ago, yet she already has a good understanding of tools like Twinkle and AfD procedures. This level of familiarity suggests prior experience on the platform. I am now requesting her account to be blocked as I am completely disturbed by her repeated allegations and disruptive behavior. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I believe we're entering boomerang territory at this point. Opinions? BusterD (talk) 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think OP is upset that a cluster of their articles were put up at AfD. This in itself is understandable, but while there's reason to think there might be mischief by Kriji Sehamati, we don't have any real evidence of it. We either need the OP to make it clearer what misconduct, if any, has occurred, or they need to drop the stick. Remsense ‥ 论 13:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The OP has been intentionally disruptive (by creating a new ANI thread which was reverted), and this thread is going nowhere. IMHO, there's nothing ANI can do here. Everything I'm reading about should be resolved at the page talk and user talk level, in my opinion. The AfDs are underway. If dispute resolution is needed, fine. Nobody is harming S-Aura. S-Aura can't come crying to ANI (or four random user talk pages like mine) anytime someone merely disagrees with them. BusterD (talk) 14:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd have said close with trout for all if not for creating the second thread at AN/I. Based on that I'd say the OP should be formally cautioned against such antics in the future. Simonm223 (talk) 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I should have added that I largely hold with Remsense in their position. BusterD (talk) 14:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Kriji Sehamati is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages, but we don’t have any evidence because understanding Misplaced Pages’s AfD process so quickly can be a bit challenging. I have no problem with AfD regarding my contributions, and it’s a good thing that experienced contributors are giving their feedback. If you believe that the kriji is 100% correct and her activity is not suspicious, then this discussion should be closed. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 14:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You need to stop insisting this is definitely the case if you don't have any evidence for it, period. Remsense ‥ 论 14:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- S-Aura, how did you make the determination
User:Kriji Sehamati is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages
? Please share your process. That's a personal attack, and requires proof to prevent you from being in violation of WP:NOPERSONALATTACKS. I've looked at the AfDs and they seem reasonable to me. When you've provided strong sources the article is being kept. So far the jury is out on the others. Both of you seem to be writing articles about obscure living persons who wouldn't normally (by my cursory reading) have a Misplaced Pages article about them because reliable sourcing is not readily found. When I see that, I must suspect COI or undeclared unpaid editing here, but nobody's admitting to it. BusterD (talk) 15:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC) - S-Aura's continuing to issue personal attacks makes it more difficult for us to just close this (without some form of consequence for the editor making unproven personal attacks after they've been warned repeatedly). BusterD (talk) 15:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have made a level-four user talk page warning for the personal attack. FYI. We've been very nice about this up 'til now, but we need to stop being so kind. Doing foolish things has real world consequences. BusterD (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Kriji Sehamati is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages, but we don’t have any evidence because understanding Misplaced Pages’s AfD process so quickly can be a bit challenging. I have no problem with AfD regarding my contributions, and it’s a good thing that experienced contributors are giving their feedback. If you believe that the kriji is 100% correct and her activity is not suspicious, then this discussion should be closed. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 14:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The OP has been intentionally disruptive (by creating a new ANI thread which was reverted), and this thread is going nowhere. IMHO, there's nothing ANI can do here. Everything I'm reading about should be resolved at the page talk and user talk level, in my opinion. The AfDs are underway. If dispute resolution is needed, fine. Nobody is harming S-Aura. S-Aura can't come crying to ANI (or four random user talk pages like mine) anytime someone merely disagrees with them. BusterD (talk) 14:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think OP is upset that a cluster of their articles were put up at AfD. This in itself is understandable, but while there's reason to think there might be mischief by Kriji Sehamati, we don't have any real evidence of it. We either need the OP to make it clearer what misconduct, if any, has occurred, or they need to drop the stick. Remsense ‥ 论 13:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Both editors' apparent use of AI is certainly disruptive. If it continues, it should lead to blocks. C F A 15:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Support BOOMERANG - I've been uninvoled and have mainly just been watching the back-and-forths, but the personal attacks and VESTED mindset, such as "questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors", concerns me. Not sure for how long, but I don't think anything longer than a months is appropriate given the circumstances. EF 15:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Darkwarriorblake making aspersions
The OP says they don't care any more which I'm reading as a withdrawal and the other party says they won't be responding again so I'm closing this discussion. My only comment is that both editors in this dispute should have brought this to the article talk page to talk this disagreement out. I don't know if the differences would be resolved but this is what we advise editors to do when their edits are reverted. Now I just have to get that scene in the movie out of my mind. Liz 05:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Postscript: Ah, someone just close this, I don't care any more. — Hex • talk 22:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm posting here after a particularly underwhelming interaction with an editor in the form of edit summaries. I'll need to provide the context of a brief content dispute which hopefully won't take too long and then get to the point. I'm not asking for anyone to take my side in the dispute.
Trading Places is a widely acclaimed comedy film from 1983, which is also widely acknowledged to have problematic elements by modern standards, including a scene in which the villain of the piece, stuck in a gorilla costume, is locked in a cage with a real gorilla, which is implied to sexually penetrate him without his consent.
The article states that G. Gordon Liddy demurred being cast in the role upon finding that out. The citation for this claim is a listicle on Indiewire, which contains the sentence
- Reportedly, Liddy was on board until he got to the part where Beeks becomes a gorilla’s mate.
Reportedly by whom is not mentioned, let alone is there a direct quotation from Liddy. Plus as can be seen the words "becomes a gorilla's mate" are linked to a very poor quality, hand-held video of the scene in question playing on a television. This alone should be enough to raise serious questions about the use of this "source" in a featured article.
The content dispute began when I changed it like this (diff) with the comment Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs:
| − | Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks | + | Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks is raped by a gorilla. |
This was reverted (diff) by Darkwarriorblake with the comment not what the source says.
After thinking about it a moment I came to the conclusion described above about the quality of the source, and decided that it was better out than in, which is what I should have done in the first place.(diff)
| − | ...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks | + | ...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks with Paul Gleason eventually taking the role;... |
My accompanying comment was (a) That was the source's voice, not Liddy's. It's called a euphemism. Demonstrable by how it links to a clip of the scene in which a man is raped by a gorilla. (b) Source says "reportedly" for this claim, without evidence. Poor quality source. Removing claim
That was reverted by Darkwarriorblake (diff) with the comment Nothing wrong with Indiewire as a source, if there is I'd raise it at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources. Until then, there's a talk page for you to use per WP:BRD. Your comments sound agenda driven and therefore not Neutral.
This is where the reason for me to raise this at this board begins, because that's solidly an example of casting aspersions. It came on top of a revert which reintroduced a claim cited to a rumor in a blog post into a featured article, but that's really not my concern, because if the champions of the featured article process have decided that it's somehow acceptable for our "best" content then I'm just going to move on to something else rather than argue.
There's one final back and forth which was enough to motivate me to post here. First, I reverted that revert (, my only time using the actual "Undo" button today), with this comment: a good source doesn't say "reportedly" (ie, spread a rumor), it specifies the origin of a fact. My only "agenda" is with a crap listicle being used as a reference, regardless of who published it. Take it to talk if you want to argue for the continued inclusion of a trash ref in a featured article, or source the claim properly yourself.
This was reverted - again - by Darkwarriorblake (diff) with the comment How are you an admin? "rape played for laughs" is an agenda, this went through FA as is so WP:STATUSQUO and WP:BRD apply. You must go to the talk page, not I. I don't know if you're going through a bad time or something but this isn't how an admin should be acting or communicating with others, up to and including WP:EDITWARRING
At this point it's gone firmly into the realm of knee-jerk reversions, because if Darkwarriorblake took the time to read the article which they've reverting changes to for years (is this ownership? Kind of feels that way), they would get down to the critical reassessment section. Which says "some critics have praised the film while highlighting elements that they believe aged poorly, including racial language, the use of blackface, and the implied rape of Beeks by a gorilla", cited to articles in four major publications. Or, you know, even search Google for "Trading Places gorilla rape".
So anyhow regardless of whether the Indiewire source is deemed suitable or not, I'm just wondering what the feeling here is about someone making goofy assertions on the record that another editor has "an agenda" (what agenda could it be?) and may not be emotionally stable, which really doesn't feel like assuming good faith at all. — Hex • talk 20:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hrrm, this seems a bit excessive.
- I've added a second source for the claim. Really this should've been the first option rather than removing the content.
- The first summary was, as stated, "Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs". "Rape played for laughs" is a loaded comment and not something said in the article or the source text, so it's a personal opinion, it's not neutral, it's agenda-driven.
- When this was reverted, the editor just removed the content entirely claiming IndieWire was unreliable. There is, as far as I'm aware, nothing wrong with Indiewire. I've since found a second source, the Telegraph, which is reliable per Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources.
- The editor ignored WP: BRD when raised, and as an admin they should adhere to policy.
- The editor states that they are an admin on their page. Assuming this is true, the aggressiveness of their edits, hyper focus on the single area, and use of words like "crap listicle" seemed out of line with what I, personally, would expect from an admin on Misplaced Pages, certainly someone who has been so for nearly two decades. Perhaps the edit summary wasn't the place to have that discussion but, as stated, they weren't adhering to WP: BRD to start a discussion, and in the interim the article needed putting back to the status quo.
- I find accusations of OWNERSHIP often tend to come when people don't get their way. Which is fine. I have plenty of reversions on the page for people adding unsourced content and there are plenty of changes as well. I find someone removing sourced content and me putting the sourced content back to not really be something you can fling ownership at.
- Within the context of the film, Beeks does become the romantic partner of the gorilla, it seemed more appropriate and encylcopedic text than just saying 'rape', and neither source I've added says that either.
- Anyways, my edit history shows I'm a massive contributor and helper and it's nearly Xmas, and I don't feel like engaging with this any further, good luck Hex. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Of course you don't, having ignored the actual matter of your conduct that I'm raising here. Your comments about the content of the article are irrelevant. — Hex • talk 20:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hex's position is not wholly supported, although in the entire issue, their toolset is irrelevant. There was no incivility on either part, and an all-out edit war seems to have been averted.Fundamentally the change Hex wanted to make was pure OR; rape may have been intimated—or, as Hex themself admits, implied—but its never overtly stated and is a wholly loaded term. This is the interpretation of an editor, not of secondary sources. If there is a pron=blem with Indywire as a source—currently used in 1000s of articles—take it to WP:RSN. If it's disputed that it's a high quality source per WP:FA?, then take it to WT:FAC. Accusations of OWNership are as unhelpful—and as much an aspersion—as accusations of agenda-led editing. In fact, for OWNership, Hex should read the relevant policy: here, it is WP:FAOWN, which not only allows for careful stewardship of featured material, but requires significant changes to the consensus version to be discussed on talk; I don't suppose there's any suggestion that introducing rape—particularly "played for laughs"—wouldn't be a significant addition.Really though, this is an overblown content dispute which should have started with one revert each, and ended on the talk page. --SerialNumber54129 21:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- "Never overtly stated... 'played for laughs' be a significant addition" - here's an interview with John Landis, the director.
One of the executives was deeply appalled by a man being sexually molested by a gorilla. And I said you know, it's a joke and it goes by very quickly. But the first preview was very successful and it all went away.
- Feel free to amend the article on that basis. I'm certainly not interested in spending any more time on it. — Hex • talk 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- "Never overtly stated... 'played for laughs' be a significant addition" - here's an interview with John Landis, the director.
Followup
I just want to say that, now that we've had an ANI thread on the subjeect of Gordon Liddy's feelings about portraying the romantic partner of a gorilla, I can die happy.
While we're on the subject, our article on Liddy recites that Prior to his departure from the FBI in 1962, Liddy sought admission to various bars.
I'm curious to know whether this is meant to imply that Liddy had a drinking problem, and whether this could have had any bearing on the whole gorilla romantic partner situation. EEng
Extremely Annoying situation
Blocked for one week. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I reverted this edit by this IP. They then trouted me multiple times for it. One of these was for "being shovel shenanigans" which I took as a PA and informed them of it.
The rest escapes words for me. See these discussions.
they also used a second IP to continue to irk me. I hesitated to bring this to ANI, since they seemed new, and I didn't want to bite, but enough is enough.
Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.IP vandalism
Blocked. (non-admin closure) C F A 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user: user:76.67.115.228 seems to be on a spree of Vandalism, which they are summarising in the edit summaries as 'reverting vandalism'. Example: 1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrainman (talk • contribs) 02:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- including racist edits summarized as reverting racist texts. Example irisChronomia (talk) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The IP is already blocked. To OP: Consider reporting obvious vandalism like this at WP:AIV. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
User Stationmanagerskidrow removing information on Radio Skid Row page
User:Stationmanagerskidrow is repeatedly removing information about a recent incident involving a Jewish DJ at their station. They say that it is incorrect information, even though it is sourced. The name also states clearly that this is a company account. Lastly, they have continued this behavior even after being warned on their talk page. Pyramids09 (talk) 03:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User is now editing using User:159.196.168.116 Pyramids09 (talk) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is a content dispute and the article is being actively edited by many different editors. However, no discussion about the disagreements has occurred on the article talk page which is where this discussion should be happening. Liz 04:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
That article probably should be speedied as an A7 for not containing any assertions of notability; which obscures that Stationmanagerskidrow appears to have been edit warring on it with an undisclosed COI, and presumably was WP:LOUTSOCKing as this IP, and if so violated 3RR as well. It's probably best for me not to take administrative action here tonight as I won't be around later/tomorrow to deal with any followups, but something should be done here beyond just saying "take it to the talk page." ⇒SWATJester 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The page was longer, but sourced (all but?) soley to the station's site and it's been trimmed down to what it is now. Given the repeated edit-warring by IPs I've semi-protected the page for two days for now. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:USERNAME and WP:COI message added here. I'm just about to make myself thoroughly WP:INVOLVED by seeing what I can do about the Radio Skid Row article. Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Insults
I'd like to report an incident related to this discussion. A person under IP already accused me of being "obsessed". Now someone (possibly the same person) suggests that I may need psychiatric help. Please also see this comment. I guess we can always agree to disagree with other people, but this is going a bit too far. Thank you. Psychloppos (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, Psychloppos. What action are you seeking to happen here? Liz 09:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have no idea which actions are warranted here. Maybe an admin could leave a message to this IP and this registered user and remind them that they should assume good faith ? It would also be nice to remind them about Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. Saying that I am "fuelled by an unhealthy obsession" or questioning my sanity do not seem to respect those guidelines. Psychloppos (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Nlkyair012 and LLM chatbots
This editor has been constantly using AI chatbots to respond and write messages. They are a single purpose account for glorifying the Kamaria Ahir caste using unreliable WP:RAJ era sources, I and several other experienced editors have taken time and effort to respond to their endless queries and WP:SEALIONING generated using ChatGPT. They have posted AI generated walls of text on multiple noticeboards such as WP:RSN and WP:DRN and including here , accusing me of vandalism.
Despite my repeated requests and even a final warning to them (including a request by @ActivelyDisinterested:) they are still continuing to do it. Their messages are repeating the same argument again and again and are frankly just hallucinations that bring up fictitious guidelines or misrepresent the existing ones. Several editors have told them that Raj era sources are not reliable yet they continue to ask for more evidence on why that is the case based on AI generated claims of supposed academic value or neutrality. This is getting very disruptive and taking up valuable contributor time to respond to their endless AI responses which take a few seconds to generate. I have alerted them about WP:GSCASTE and WP:ARBIPA, I would appreciate it if someone could enforce a restriction on this user from at minimum caste area. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hello @Ratnahastin,
- To start with I should admit that I am sorry for all the inconvenience that I may have caused as a result of my actions. It was never my intention to take people’s time or skew the conversation in a certain way. I appreciate the core idea to contribute the thoughts to the Wiki and share it borne in mind the overall rules and policies of this program.
- I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site. Even when I was using AI for the grammar check or, for instance, to elaborate on some point in the text, I saw to my mismanagement that over the process we probably confused the readers and repeated the same information and thoughts, which I would never wish to happen again. From now on I will ensure that in the future the input which I provide to wikipedia fits the Misplaced Pages standard and is more personal. I will also not write walls of text and will not make assertations that do not have substantiated evidence in sources.
- As for subjects that concern the Raj and the sources from this period and the discussions we have had it seems that I have gone too far in demanding clarification for the same thing. That being the case, with the understanding that the consensus will be acknowledged, I shall not be inclined to reopen this discussion unless new substantiated evidence is produced. I don’t want to prolong the conversation or bring any more stress.
- I will strive to learn from my experience to be more productive in my interactions going forward. If there are other limitations or additional rules to which I have to stick to, I will receive them with pleasure.
- In the same respect, let me specially apologize for the inconvenience and thank all of you for bearing with us. That was why I wanted to remind all of us that we can and should keep collectively improving Misplaced Pages as a resource. Nlkyair012 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- This comment also has a typical LLM feel and contains meaningless statements such as "I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site" and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style, although GPTzero said this is human input. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- It seems human in that it contains some composition and grammar errors that I don’t think an LLM would produce. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 13:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply sir, I can't explain how frustrated I'm feeling from this morning which this user made me experience Nlkyair012 14:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The time when I messaged Vikram banafar I was casual not formal and second of all your saying doesn't prove anything "and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style" that's a straight up false accusation and utter nonsensical point and 3rd point being that GPTzero stated that this is a human input then that's an human input end of the question. Nlkyair012 14:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No it's really not the end of the story if GPTZero says "likely human". In fact I'd actively discourage people depending on tools like GPTZero in favour of their human senses which are better at detecting LLM outputs than yet another computer program. And, frankly, what you're hearing from people here is we'd rather your casual, human, flaws-and-all style of writing over ChatGPT output "formal" report templates. They are doing the opposite of what you're looking for and have become disruptive. Simonm223 (talk) 14:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Man you still wanna do this? @Zanahary also says this doesn't seems AI generated to him and he used his actual "Human senses" to lean that way Nlkyair012 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Admitting that you have used AI for writing your comments and then saying that you have not used AI is not going to help your case. - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You know what I think this is getting to the WP:NOTHERE point. Having to tell somebody to have the basic respect of other editors to not subject them to text-walls of chatGPT garbage over and over again is a disruptive distraction from what we should all be doing. Simonm223 (talk) 14:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- This ain't getting anywhere Nlkyair012 14:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I really don't understand the problem. Cuz I literally also said many where that yes I used AI but for expanding and grammar correction Nlkyair012 14:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You know what I think this is getting to the WP:NOTHERE point. Having to tell somebody to have the basic respect of other editors to not subject them to text-walls of chatGPT garbage over and over again is a disruptive distraction from what we should all be doing. Simonm223 (talk) 14:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Admitting that you have used AI for writing your comments and then saying that you have not used AI is not going to help your case. - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Man you still wanna do this? @Zanahary also says this doesn't seems AI generated to him and he used his actual "Human senses" to lean that way Nlkyair012 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- If this combative approach is your "casual" style, perhaps your use of AI and its over the top politeness was an attempt to mask it. In any case, I think you are not here for building an encyclopaedia but for caste glorification given your obsession with a certain sub-caste. - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- im not obsessed with a certain subcaste but am sure is obsessed with British Raj sources. Nlkyair012 14:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think that's better. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 15:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- im not obsessed with a certain subcaste but am sure is obsessed with British Raj sources. Nlkyair012 14:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No it's really not the end of the story if GPTZero says "likely human". In fact I'd actively discourage people depending on tools like GPTZero in favour of their human senses which are better at detecting LLM outputs than yet another computer program. And, frankly, what you're hearing from people here is we'd rather your casual, human, flaws-and-all style of writing over ChatGPT output "formal" report templates. They are doing the opposite of what you're looking for and have become disruptive. Simonm223 (talk) 14:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- It seems human in that it contains some composition and grammar errors that I don’t think an LLM would produce. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 13:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- This comment also has a typical LLM feel and contains meaningless statements such as "I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site" and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style, although GPTzero said this is human input. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Potential vandal trying to start edit war on the page for Frisch's.
This user keeps using IP addresses in order to revert creditable information about who makes their tartar sauce. Please look into this user. IP Addresses used were 67.80.16.30, 66.117.211.82, and 216.24.107.180. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JrStudios The Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
User:Nadeem asghar khan inaccurate edit summaries
All but 2 of user's edit summaries are "Fixed Typo" when they are in fact partially updating statistical information on the page. Have left multiple messages/warnings on TP, with no response. Spike 'em (talk) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Lil Dicky Semi-Protection
Lil Dicky was semi-protected back in 2019. Now that five years have passed, could the semi-protection be lifted? 174.93.89.27 (talk) 16:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Category: