Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitextInline

Revision as of 22:39, 13 October 2013 editJohn Carter (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users176,670 edits →Forgot to sign: comment← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 00:01, 25 December 2024 edit undoMediaWiki message delivery (talk | contribs)Bots3,132,848 edits →The Signpost: 24 December 2024: new sectionTag: MassMessage delivery
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{NoAutosign}}		{{Skip to bottom}}
			{{User:Giraffer/TalkPageCovid}}
	]
			<div style="float: right>
			]</div><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
			<div style="float: right; background-color: White; border: 5px solid Light blue; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 0.5em;">
			]<p style="text-align: center; large; margin-bottom: 0;">''It's Summer!''</p></div>
			{{archive box|image=]|
	{{User:MiszaBot/config
			search=yes|auto=yes|
	|archiveheader = {{Automatic archive navigator}}
			* ]
	|maxarchivesize = 70K
			* ]
	|counter = 13
			* ]
	|minthreadsleft = 5
			* ]
	|minthreadstoarchive = 3
			* ]
	|algo = old(31d)
	|archive = User talk:Newjerseyliz/Archive %(counter)d		* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
	}}		}}
			{{Hatnote|This page was last edited or modified by ] (]).}}<br />
	{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
	|target=User talk:Liz/Archive/Index
	|mask=User talk:Liz/Archive/<#>
	|leading_zeros=0
	|indexhere=no
	|template location=User talk:Liz/Archive/Index template
	}}
			{{Center|'''Note: When emailing me, please also post a {{tl|You've got mail}} template to this page.<br /> I check my Misplaced Pages email account infrequently.'''}}<br />
	{{Autoarchivingnotice
			<div style="text-align: center;">Wise words given to a blocked editor: ''This absolute adherence to the idea that your interpretation of the rules is paramount<br /> and everyone else's input is merely an obstacle to overcome is an accurate summary of how you ended up in this position.''<br /> ]&nbsp;]⁄] 4 August 2013 <br /><i>Well said!</i><span style="font-family:Rage Italic; font-size:large; color:Purple">'''''L'''''iz</span> <sup>] ]</sup></div>
	|small=yes
			{{Signpost-subscription}}
	|bot=MiszaBot
			{{centralized discussion}}
	|age=31
			] in the cruel world of Misplaced Pages.]]
	|units=days
			<br />
	|dounreplied=yes
			<br />
	|index=./Archive index
			While Misplaced Pages's written ] should be taken seriously, they can be misused. <br />Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the ''letter'' of policy without consideration for the ''principles'' of policies. <br />If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ].<br /> Disagreements are resolved through ] discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures.<br /> Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves ] to reflect ]. (])
	}}
			<br />
			<br />
			Recommended reading for editors who are upset RIGHT NOW!:<br />
			''']''' - ]<br />
			''']'''
			<br />
			<br />
			''If you came here just to insult me, I will delete your comments without a reply.'' <br />
			''And if I wasn't involved, personal attacks clearly warrant a block.''
			<br />
			== ] ==
			Dear Mrs. @], please delete user pages ] because ]. Thanks..... ] (]) 04:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I blanked their User page. This editor made 3 edits 6+ years ago, this isn't an urgent situation. I'm not sure how you even stumbled upon them. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Move ==
			Hello {{u|Liz}}, {{u|Hallowme|someone}} moved ] to multiple titles and went as far as to create a duplicate titled ]. My guess is that they were trying to get the credits for creating the Tyla article. Can you please look at the article, its talk and subpages and check if there's anything wrong? '''<span style="color:Purple">dxneo</span>''' (]) 14:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Though I'm late in responding, I actually looked into this situation when you posted about it last weekend and looked to see if any clean-up was necessary. The editor has since been blocked for disruptive editing and because it might be a compromised account. Thanaks for bringing this to my attention and I'm sorry that it's taken me a while to reply to your request. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
			] from the past month (October 2024).
			]
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	{{Archive box
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
	| search=yes
			|]
	| auto=yes
			}}
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
	}}		}}
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	<div style="position: fixed; left: 0; bottom: 0; display: block">]</div>
			:] ]
	{{Hatnote|This page was last edited or modified by ] (]).}}<br><br>
	<center>Wise words given to a blocked editor: ''This absolute adherence to the idea that your interpretation of the rules is paramount<br> and everyone else's input is merely an obstacle to overcome is an accurate summary of how you ended up in this position.''<br> ]&nbsp;]⁄] 4 August 2013 <br><i>Well said!</i><font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Navy">]</font> <font face="Times New Roman" color="Green">]</font></sup></center>
	{{Signpost-subscription}}
	{{centralized discussion}}
	<br>
	<br>
	While Misplaced Pages's written ] should be taken seriously, they can be misused. <br>Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the ''letter'' of policy without consideration for the ''principles'' of policies. <br>If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ].<br> Disagreements are resolved through ] discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures.<br> Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves ] to reflect ]. (])
	<br>
	<br>
			] '''Oversighter changes'''
	==Welcome!==
			:] ]
	Hello, Newjerseyliz, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for ]. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
	*]
	*]
	*] and ]
	*]
	*]
	Please remember to ] your messages on ]s by typing four ]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out ], ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{help me}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome! <!-- Template:Welcome -->
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	<div style="border-style: solid; border-color: blue; background-color: Red; border-width: 1px; text-align: left; padding: 8px 8px 0;" class="plainlinks">]
			* Following a ], the ] proposal that went for a trial to refine the ] (RfA) process has been discontinued.
	<p style="font-size: 200%; color: #fff; margin: 0.2em 0 0;">Don't call names, {{User:RexxS/Shakespearean insults|1=you}}!</p>
			* Following a ], ] is adopted as a policy.
	<p style="font-size: 120%; color: Gold; margin: 0;">You have been noticed using opprobrious epithets. It's payback time from the ]! To activate the Insultspout and receive fresh insults, click . Note that all insults generated by the Spout are guaranteed literary and cultured, unlike the nasty things ''you'' said, {{User:RexxS/Moah Shakespearean insults|1=you}}. </p><!--All credit to Shakespeare; to http://writers-write-creative-blog.posterous.com/shakespearean-insults for collecting the words and for the idea of combining them at random; and to ] for creating the automatic insult generator {{User:RexxS/Shakespearean insults}}.--><!--User:Darwinbish/insultspout-->
	{{clear}}
	</div>
	Hmm never seen this template before, but in my opinion its abusive and a personal attack and its should be discontinued.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 16:21, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
	: I thought it was funny, ], and placed it on my Talk Page myself. The "epiphets" are so ludicrous and silly, I can't believe anyone would take them personally. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
	::OK, I thought it was placed here by someone else. Glad you find it fun. Peace! --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 19:10, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Technical news'''
	==AFD of ]==
			* Mass deletions done with the ] tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. {{phab|T366068}}
	If you get a moment, could you head over to this article and complete the AFD? You tagged the article , but I can't find the debate or a rationale for deletion. Thanks! ] <sup> ] </sup>~<small> ] </small> 15:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	:I thought a bot would pick it up and create a page. What do I do next? I appreciate your help, I find the AfD instructions confusing. ] (]) 15:30, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::Tell me why you want it deleted, and I can complete the rest of the steps for you. A bot can list it and complete templates, but can't guess at your reasoning - and the reasoning is a big part of the process. AFD can be a bit obtuse, on occasion - but it's no problem. ] <sup> ] </sup>~<small> ] </small> 15:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: She just doesn't seem like a notable actress. There are hundreds (thousands?) of actors who have a smattering of film and TV credits. She didn't have a long-running or sustained career. I realize the article is a stub but I don't foresee it being expanded or worked on further.
	::: As for the AfD, I don't know how to get it listed on the page with all of those values in parentheses (like (Talk) ). I have posted one AfD successfully but it took me hours to figure out how to get it listed properly and I don't recall the steps I took (beyond posting the tag on the article page). Thanks for the patience and help. I'd like to do more work on the AfD and Categories for Discussion levels. ] (]) 15:51, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::On the page ], in the box headed "This article is being considered for deletion", you should find a list of four steps. You've done step 1; in step 2, click the first blue link (Preloaded debate) and this opens an editing window. Leave most of that alone; change the {{para|cat|U}} to {{para|cat|B}} but most importantly, change the word "Reason" to your reason why the article should be deleted (more on deletion reasons at ]). Then set the edit summary to <code><nowiki>Creating deletion discussion for ]</nowiki></code> and save the page; we can handle the remaining steps. --] (]) 16:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::: Thanks, ], I would NOT have figured that out! For the one successful AfD I posted (for ]) it was a trial and '''many''' errors. I think I just went to AfDs and cut and pasted wikitext. Still ended up posting it wrong the first time. Is there a reason it is so much more complicated that CfD? ] (]) 16:36, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::: By the way, I don't think I'll be creating a lot of new articles (that seems like a perilous undertaking) and finding typos and awkward grammar to correct is haphazard so I'm really looking for some way I can help on the organizational level. I hope AfD and CfD could be these areas once I learn from the masters. ;-) ] (]) 16:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::OK, of the four steps that I mentioned, you've now done step 2 and I've {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 August 2|prev|566875232|done step 3}}.
	::::::I think we can omit step 4 (Please consider notifying the by placing {{tlxs|adw|Juanin Clay}} ~~<nowiki />~~ on their talk page(s).), because the creator was {{userIP|68.68.182.95}} who isn't likely to be watching for such messages. There have been other contributors; but most of them made only minor changes. --] (]) 16:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	I thought I did all steps, as I put ] as a reason why the article is being suggested for deletion. I didn't know I had to notify everyone who made a major contribution on the article. Is this done for every AfD? Man, this is complicated. ] (]) 16:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::You don't need to notify all the contributors. Typically, only the original creator is informed, but it's courtesy to also inform major contributors. I've who seem to have put more in than most. Hopefully, anybody else who's interested will have the page on their watchlist. --] (]) 17:12, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
	I notified some of those same people so I'll go back and remove the tag I put on their Talk Page. Thanks, again. ] (]) 17:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Arbitration'''
	:Looks like you all have it under control. Good work! ] <sup> ] </sup>~<small> ] </small> 04:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
			* {{noping|RoySmith}}, {{noping|Barkeep49}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the ] for the ]. {{noping|ThadeusOfNazereth}} and {{noping|Dr vulpes}} are reserve commissioners.
	::Like I said, happy to help. No problem at all. ] <sup> ] </sup>~<small> ] </small> 12:10, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
			* Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate from 3 November 2024 until 12 November 2024 to stand in the ].
			* The Arbitration Committee is ] for roles such as clerks, access to the COI queue, checkuser, and oversight.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
			* An ] is happening in November 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{tl|Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. ]
			----
	== August 2013 ==
			{{center|{{flatlist|
	] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on .
			* ]
	:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
			* ]
	*<nowiki>| children = ] (b. 1985) </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>b. 19<br>Nicholas Bellisario</nowiki>
			* ]
	Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 20:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
			}}}}
			<!--
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 10:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</small>}}
			<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1254686817 -->
			== Procedural keep/close? ==
	==Disambiguation link notification for August 7==
	Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages ], ] and ] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			Hi Liz, could you give this a quick look please to see whether it should be procedurally closed. There is an active unclosed merge discussion and this seems to have been started as a novel means to close the merge. Thanks. ] (]) 07:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 11:05, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:{{done}} I initially thought it was too late in the process for a procedural close but when I saw the nominator's deletion argument was actually an indirect request to get support for keeping the article, I decided that you were right and this was an incorrect use of AFD. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Many thanks Liz. It was all getting rather confused. ] (]) 20:14, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			==]==
	== Category:American child actresses ==
			May I ask how this could possibly be considered a no consensus result? It's a clear keep result unless you are overriding the five keep votes and deciding for some reason that the two deleters have stronger arguments (which is a bit odd since it comes down to people claiming he meets GNG versus people claiming he doesn't). What is the justification for this? You don't say in your closing statement. -- ] (]) 15:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	The close was as a keep, so nothing has to be done. If you don't believe that we need any child actress categories, then your next step would be to nominate ] for deletion. Which will actually need to be an upmerge of all of the children categories so that they get kept in the by country actor tree. The end result is that to be clear, you will need to nominate everything or at least some of the subcategories. The remainder could be done as speedies if your proposal receives consensus. ] (]) 03:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
	: I'm disappointed. Either one of the two proposals would be an improvement over how things are right now. If I wanted to move the male child actors out of Category: Child Actors into Category:Male child actors, is they a way to do this with a bot or script? There are 1200+ articles that need to be recategorized in order that there is some consistency in the way that the gender is categorized. That's an awful lot of work. ] (]) 03:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Saying that keep arguments were "people claiming he meets GNG" is a fundamental mischaracterisation of your own argument which consisted partly of "The CMG is a high honour which isn't handed out in cornflakes packets" and which made absolutely zero attempt to assess notability based on sources. That's one of the weakest arguments I've seen at AfD in a while. No closer should take it into account at all. ] (]) 16:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	== ''The Signpost'': 07 August 2013 ==
			::Agree. I'm not sure how I would have voted, but, like OzLondoner, I hope I would have pointed out the paucity of the argument. The close was good. ]'']'' 17:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
			:::Wait, that is ''Oz'' Londoner? I have been reading that forever as aus, as in German for out. Out of Londoner. Now I don't know what to think! ] (]) 23:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-08-07}}
			::::Oh and yeah, I think the close was good. ] (]) 23:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 31-->
			:::::{{reply|Sirfurboy}} like, aus, raus! :) ]'']'' 01:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
			::::::{{reply|Sirfurboy}} Haha that made me smile. Now I'm wondering about your name though. Sir Fur Boy? Or Surfer Boy? 😂 ] (]) 11:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	* ''']'''
			:::::::Yes! I added the surfer emoji partly to clarify. When I first came up with the name I had know idea furries were a thing. Furboy was my Paladin when I used to play D&D. I do actually surf - although these days I have switched to a kayak. ] (]) 11:13, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	* ]
			::::::::I always thought "Aus" referred to Australia or, maybe Austria, but I now see from your User page, ], that you don't seem to participate in any WikiProjects on those countries so perhaps I've been wrong all of this time. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	* ]
			:Hello, ],
	* ] (]) 23:26, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
			:I gather that you would have preferred a firmer close as a Keep rather than No consensus? Well, first, as a frequent AFD participant, I know that you know that it's not a vote count. But when you have a divided discussion like this one, with some editors arguing that ] is met and others arguing ] is not met, then you need to review the arguments and, I believe, the experience levels of the participants in the discussion.
	</div>
			:I didn't think I could close as Keep without it signalling that I was ignoring the opinions of two editors who were arguing for Deletion, both of whom are very experienced in assessing articles and sources in AFD discussions. So, I closed as No consensus which is not saying that both sides were equally strong in their arguments but it acknowledges that their wasn't unanimity or agreement close to unamity in this discussion. This is not an uncommon outcome when you have experienced editors reviewing sources who come to opposing evaluations of them. It's not my job to review the sources myself because that would lead to a "supervote" so I have to rely on the arguments of the participants and, in this case, I didn't see a consensus.
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0594 -->
			:Of course, you can take this to ] if you want and present your argument there. In this case, you might have a few participants who agree with your interpretation but I think the majority of opinions would be that "No consensus" was a reasonable outcome that any closer might come to. I'm occasionally willing to revert an AFD closure if an editor is asking for an additional relisting or I've made some obvious error but I don't think I did here and I don't think a third relisting would have altered the outcome of this discussion. But that's your call. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			::No, it's not a "vote count", but when you have more than twice the number of editors voting one way than the other, then not acknowledging that majority and closing in their favour does indeed look like a supervote unless they're spouting utter rubbish. {{tq|I didn't think I could close as Keep without it signalling that I was ignoring the opinions of two editors who were arguing for Deletion, both of whom are very experienced in assessing articles and sources in AFD discussions.}} I don't think I've ever seen that argument before. It's basically saying that because two editors, both of whom have a proven track record of being very keen on deletion incidentally, say it should be deleted then their arguments should be given more weight than the other five participants because they're "experienced" and it would be somehow insulting to them to close in favour of the other participants. That's just weird, frankly, and I think goes against the spirit of Misplaced Pages. -- ] (]) 09:43, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::It's the effective same result so I'm not sure why you're complaining so much. Consensus is based on argument quality, not numbers. Maybe try and assess notability based on sources rather than tangents about cornflakes and your opinion will count for more at AfD. ] (]) 13:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::Consensus is indeed based on argument quality. And yours weren't superior in anyone's opinion except yours. -- ] (]) 15:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Hi Necrothesp, I didn't participate in that discussion, but reviewing it now, I see two editors making good source based arguments to keep, as well as two making such arguments for deletion. Two said it meets ] but did not say how. So I think Liz evaluated that fairly. But there is also your argument that the CMG is a high honour. This was not related to any SNG, but is an SNG style of shortcut argument that many of us use in our first look at a subject to come to an initial view. For instance, today I have posted on an AfD school discussion that you also posted on, and expressed my own shortcut argument based on the age, prestige and size of a school. But such arguments are nothing more than a rebuttable supposition of notability. What always matters is whether sources exist from which the page can be written. A school can be big and old and so unremarkable that perhaps there really are no sources. A person can be an unremarkable civil servant or part of a diplomatic mission, so much in the background that sources do not exist. In such cases the assumption of notability will be rebutted by the searches that turn nothing up, and no page can be written. But certainly we can use such arguments to choose where we might be concentrating our efforts, and, when the matter is finely balanced, to argue the toss in favour of retention. Still, what really matters are the sources. ] (]) 16:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
			==Creating a Previously Deleted Article==
	== Commentary ==
			Hi Liz,
	For what it might be worth, feel free to comment wherever you want. Ignocrates is going to Arbitration because of his really dubious history of conduct, including I think fairly clear dishonesty. So far as I can tell, Smeat seems to be dealing more with the "fringey"/minority view of the oral gospel tradition, which, as someone who hasn't myself checked the Coogan reference, published last year, I have to admit might not be as "fringey" any more. But, yeah, even academics, and highly regarded ones, have been known to be advocates of fringey beliefs, like ] and global cooling, as I have already mentioned. There are questions of ], ], and a ton of others which might apply here. As someone who is, primarily, these days going through the relevant reference works to see what they cover, and to what extent, I am pretty much only active onwiki a few days a week, because compiling those lists takes a loooong time itself. Those reference sources, particularly the most recent ones, taking into account any reviews of those sources or other statements in the academic literature subsequent to publication, are in general counted as being the best sources to indicate WEIGHT around here. There ''may'' be a rather valid case for increased coverage of the oral gospel tradition in some of our articles, I don't know. But it would definitely help if people actually discussed how to add or modify the content, rather than engage in basically useless talk page blather and threats, like Smeat and Ignocrates have in the really unusual stated "threat" of an RfC/U. IN general, as per the third pillar of wikipedia, we are an encyclopedia, and I think a review of the policies and guidelines would indicate that most if not all of them are more or less designed to convey the impression that our content should mirror the content of the most thorough and recent reference sources possible, making allowances if there haven't been any since a major finding. Particularly with the 2012 Coogan book, counted by the American Library Association as one of the best reference sources of 2012, I kinda doubt there are problems there, but I haven't checked the reviews to see if some articles or topics were seen as being insufficient or prejudicial coverage, either.
			I created an article for the Powhatan Hotel in Galveston (sometime in early 2023), which I realized was an ill-conceived mess, so I requested speedy deletion. Thanks for your assistance with that. Now I have a new source for the article, making two expert architectural sources for the same article. Before I re-create the article, however, I would like to recall the specifics of the mess I created in order to avoid a similar mistake. I am not finding my own conversations on this and without the text of the original, I am not recalling the specifics of my errors. Do you have any tips for pulling any helpful documents? I am in no rush to re-create the article, so whatever timetable works for you also works for me.
	And, FWIW, like I think I told Nishidani elsewhere, what I am trying to do right now is to get together lists of articles in highly regarded reference sources for the various projects, and then, hopefully, when they're done (if I live that long) reviews of those sources, indicating their strengths and weaknesses. I think the likelihood of people being willing to help with the latter will increase if there are more of the former, but still think that having clear ideas of what is and is not included in reference sources is probably one of the more basic things we need around here, and something that still hasn't been done outside of one list of articles in Britannica. ] (]) 18:41, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
			Best regards, ] (]) 11:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:It sounds like I might be able to help you out but you need to provide a link to the deleted article. You know the exact name of the article you created so it would be faster if you could provide this rather than me spending time looking for it. Then I could review the reason for deletion and see if the situation is as you state it is. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Does this help? https://en.wikipedia.org/Powhatan_Hotel ] (]) 22:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::Yes, that's what I needed. Oh, this was from 2023! This was a CSD G7, an article creator asks for deletion so this can be reverted if that's what you are asking for. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:04, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			== SPAs POV-pushing in The Keys to the White House ==
	:Do you have an opinion about ]? ] (]) 19:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
			I completely agree with your concern, on ], that the volume of material is daunting. I spent literally hours researching, drafting, and editing my request, to try to simplify it as much as possible. (I'm responding to you here instead of there precisely so as not to add to the length of the thread.) I think this was also a problem on ]. The three SPAs flooded the zone with reiterations of their position, and only one uninvolved editor was dedicated enough to wade through it all.
	::You know, I'm embarrassed to admit how many years worth of argumentative posts I've read, going back and forth between you two. It was like watching a trainwreck and I was left wondering, "Why can't either of these guys just step back, shake the dust from their shoes, and move on? Are they actually getting some satisfaction from the incessant arguing? Are they enjoying it too much?"
	:: This conflict has gone beyond reliable sources, it's downright hatred and contempt now. There is little pretense of actually listening to each other to negotiate compromises. There is too much bad blood, too much history and disrespect that has been shown.
	:: <s>I will go to ArbCom when this ever gets filed because I'm genuinely curious as to how the committee members will ever look through the dozens of diffs I expect will be posted, the voluminous exposition on how "disruptive" the other editor is being, that they will have to parse through. I expect that several other well-intentioned editors will get pulled into this as participants and will have to decide what they will say about this business which has gone on now for years.</s>
	:: John, I realize that you think this argument is about what is a reliable source. But that is just the hammer you are using to pound Ignocrates over the head. You have made some valid points and there have been intelligent editors & Admins who have agreed with you. But you dismiss Ignocrates' (and others) attempts to address your concerns. I sincerely believe that you will continue to obsess about this one article as long as Ignocrates participates in editing it. It will never be good enough for you because of his participation in the process.
	:: <s>I think you will find that the focus of the ArbCom will not be on the nuances of what is a reliable source but instead upon the behavior and misconduct of all of the participants in this long, long dispute. My only suggestion is to keep your comments to ArbCom brief and to the point and not dig yourself into a deeper hole. </s>
	:: Good luck to you both. ] (]) 21:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: For what it's worth, John, I've looked at your some of your work as an Admin and I think you've done some excellent work. You have offered measured and thoughtful guidance and advice. But, for whatever reason, you have lost perspective on ''this one article'' which is too bad. I think your efforts are well spent on the other work you do, like putting together lists of sources. ] (]) 21:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
			And speaking of wading through it -- you presumably haven't waded through ]. You've done more than other admins by even reading my summary. Frankly, your hope that these differences could be resolved on talk pages is, alas, completely unrealistic. If you look at that page, you'll see that I've tried and tried and tried until I'm blue in the keyboard. The SPAs will not budge.
	On further investigation, I've found that John Carter and Ignocrates have already been to ARBCOM twice in the past 6+ years over Ebionites-related content. I didn't realize you two had already pleaded your case in several dispute forums and that there was an ARBCOM history, at least related to appropriate sources (RS) on Ebionite articles. I stand by my opinion that this has become a personal, bitter stalemate between the two of you but I see now that all parties are already familiar with the dispute resolution process and I was mistaken to assume otherwise. But I think now the primary sticking point is conduct, not content and any future case will result in mediators scrutinizing past behavior.
			It's a classic case of ]. In June of this year there was criticizing Lichtman. At about the same time, these three accounts showed up pushing the bloggers' position. They even insisted on citing the blog's criticisms (in a BLP!). You can see several screenfuls of text at ] as I tried to get them to adhere to ]. But even that self-evident point couldn't be resolved on the Talk page. Just to get those improper citations removed, I had to expend yet more time to create a . Consensus-based dispute resolution just doesn't work when there are SPAs whose sole or primary purpose in editing is to push their POV. (The current, POV version doesn't directly link to the blog post, but it does quote the nonnotable bloggers as if they were experts. Coincidentally, the SPAs asserted that the bloggers were experts.)
	I had just been looking at Talk Page comments going back two years between the involved parties. To see that this dispute goes back to 2007 makes me realize that this disagreement in much more complicated than I knew. I don't envy any mediator sorting through this all. And I was mistaken to think I had an understanding of the extent of this dispute and years of conflict that has led to the present situation. I will leave it to well-intentioned Admins and Mediators who have much more experience than I to determine responsibility for the current impasse and solutions for moving past it. ] (]) 12:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			I'm at my wits' end with these accounts. There's a limit to how much time I can spend banging my head against a brick wall in the hope of some miraculous resolution on the Talk page. If no admin will pick up a mop and ''do'' something (maybe even a 30-day article ban would send a salutary message!), then I'll probably just have to give up. The SPAs will succeed in thumbing their nose at ] and hijacking a BLP article to promote their views. ]<small>&nbsp;]&nbsp;]</small> 15:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	::John Carter wrote : ''"So far as I can tell, Smeat seems to be dealing more with the "fringey"/minority view of the oral gospel tradition"'' well, that's wrong. I am interested in quite a few topics, and one of them is early Christianity and the relationship to the Roman empire and Christian origins. ''"Smeat and Ignocrates ... the really unusual stated "threat" of an RfC/U" ''Just to let you know that we have dropped that idea as you have to have two parties to a dispute, Ret Prof is not here and I was not party to disputes on Gospel of the Ebionites. ''"I think a review of the policies and guidelines would indicate that most if not all of them are more or less designed to convey the impression that our content should mirror the content of the most thorough and recent reference sources possible"'' I don't agree with that at all. One of the best things about Misplaced Pages in my opinion is that it can be easily updated with the latest information using, for instance, the most recent works of recognised authorities such as Bart Ehrman. I would echo what Nishidani said here "''Tertiary sources are fine as well, though the problem there is that encyclopedias, reference texts and the like are always slighted dated compared to cutting-edge scholarship (b) are often too synthetic and gloss over the details and controversies in a generic way, and, (c) in fields, and I'm sure many colleagues here have the experience, where I have a thorough knowledge, I rarely leave off reading a generic encyclopedic entry on some aspect of it without an irritated feeling that much is missing, or at a too high level of synthesis. Thus secondary sources, and by that, optimally, peer-reviewed contemporary scholarship, should form the basis of our transcriptive work. There the only relevant issue is covered byWP:Undue.''" ] (]) 18:16, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	::: That all makes sense to me, ]. It can be difficult for the typical layperson to get ahold of secondary sources, especially journal articles. But I'd rely on them more than encyclopedias because the author has to lay out his argument and, believe it or not, the scrutiny of peer-reviewed journals is more exacting than for encyclopedia articles. I know of one topical encyclopedia, present in all research libraries, where most of the entries are written by graduate students. That doesn't undermine their scholarship (they may be more on top of new research than full professors), it's just that they were the ones who were eager to contribute and write entries. Heck, I've written entries for encyclopedias when I was in graduate school, too (see Encyclopedia of African-American Religions) and that was because I was a good friend of one of the editors. Of course, he edited down my contributions, but all of the research was mine and I was a second year grad student. Okay, I'm off on a tangent, just here's another vote for secondary sources. Yeah! ;-) ] (]) 23:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			:I'm sorry that this situation has left you so frustrated. And also that I'm not willing, at this point, to go diving into this complicated dispute to try to settle it. But most of my time editing on the project is filled up with some routine tasks that take up most of my time and I've only recently returned to even looking at cases that come up on ANI so I don't see my time freeing up any time soon.
	::::I echo Smeat75's concerns. The idea for this new Religion MoS is to take the content from 5 or 6 reference sources (i.e. religious dictionaries and encyclopedias), pull out the content they have in common to create an "average" article, and then summarize it with close paraphrasing and call that our best FA work. Anyone else need a barf bag? This is not only misguided; it is dangerous to the very spirit and purpose of Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 00:00, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Without coming to a conclusion on this complaint, I see that you have two problems: a) the complexity of this case that involves at least three other editors and the fact that it appears that this dispute has covered several different talk pages and noticeboards and b) that, right now, it looks like it is you against at least three editors. You'd have an outcome more to your preference if you had at least one other editor who was contributing to this discussion who supported your interpretation and could speak up. I'm sure it's maddening to see a situation you believe is inappropriate and be alone in this.
	::::: In general, I think it is a bad decision to prioritize reference sources that one is familiar with and make them the definitive source to be used in all occasions. For example, I pretty much wore out the Encyclopedia of Religion in the university libraries where I worked but it has a "History of Religion" POV that is heavy on abstraction and light on detailed analysis. The encyclopedia entries reflect not only the particular stance of the contributors (who, luckily, are identified--it isn't always the case) but also the editing team. It was a great source to begin to learn about a topic in the field of religious studies but it was deficient in giving in depth examples or a broad range of perspectives on a subject.
			:Is there a related WikiProject where you could go to their talk page and ask for uninvolved editors to offer their opinion? Or you could post an impartial request for help on the talk page of a related article. Of course, numbers don't always determine consensus on Misplaced Pages but at least you could get a second opinion on whether the way you interpret this situation is correct. I've found that in many disputes on Misplaced Pages "me vs. you" situations (or, in this case, "you vs. them") are frequently resolvable if more editors join in the discussion. Any chance of that occurring? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	::::: So, my point is that even though I probably made copies of something like 70-100 articles in the EofR and am very familiar with it, I wouldn't recommend it as the definitive source of information except as representing the stance of scholars with a History of Religion perspective. It's not the best source of information if one is examining religion from a textual, historical, sociological, cultural, or practice perspective (it's pretty good on anthropological subjects).
			::Hi, Liz, thanks for your response. I completely understand the limitations on your time and energy. I have a long Misplaced Pages to-do list, with some items dating back years, and I'm not even an admin.
	::::: This position can make it challenging to write articles since each author is limited to her own library and what resources can be found in libraries and online. But that's why Misplaced Pages is collaborative, so a number of editors can bring together the resources they have at hand. ] (]) 18:59, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
			::I wanted more editors to join in the discussion. That's why I started the RfC and then the Noticeboard thread. Each of those efforts brought a response from an experienced and previously uninvolved editor, and in each case the editor agreed with me. The three SPAs are unmoved, though. Their attitude is that their POV is correct, the article is fine the way it is, as long as they don't agree to a change there's no consensus, and as long as there's no consensus the version they prefer must remain in place.
	:::::: Actually, if you would notice, nowhere did I say we should make it the "definitive source of information", and, honestly, I rather regret the implicit assertion to the contrary by you. You might have noticed that I did mention the reviews as well, which have had some serious reservations about several of the articles contained therein, which I believe I also mentioned. I also remember saying, probably on the talk page of WikiProject Religion and Nishidani's talk page most recently, that the most recent edition of the German RGG, now called Religion Past and Present, and the old HERE are counted as being basically the other two of the three best, most comprehensive sources out there. Regarding Ignocrates' continued harping on the irrational and I believe completely unfounded motivations behind my actions, I simply note once again that not only is he apparently ''incapable'' of AGF'ing anyone other than himself, but once again seems to be taking recourse to his apparently repeated ability to read the minds of others. Regarding whether it is the best only from that perspective, I think I already said that as well. Now, I realize that Ignocrates has made a habit of using the talk pages of others to engage in irrational attempts at misdirection from the matters of his own dubiously acceptable behavior for some time now. That is the primary reason I have asked one of the ArbCom clerks to draft the request for arbitration against him. However, to basically point toward the facts that he, in what I can only call his blind stupidity, chooses to ignore, I have been more or less the ''sole'' creator and developer to date of the pages in the ], and have made a list, more or less reproduced at ], indicating the other sources which have been either included in the "reference works" article of tne EofR or in the American Library Association's yearly list of outstanding reference sources. So I believe Ignocrates' hysterial, paranoic, and completely irrational accusation above is clearly and directly contradicted by the evidence. But, that's not particularly new with him. I am still working on the list of articles and subarticles from the EofR primarily because of the incredible length of that source, and the really incredible number of subarticles, as well as the number of articles which have been changed from one edition to the next or added in the second edition. There are a number of other sources, which I have also at least started lists of articles on, primarily when the specific volumes of EofR aren't available, and which are at various levels of completion, and will be added as they are finished. As I indicated somewhere, I have also recently started to copy out articles from HERE for inclusion in WikiSource, because at least one or two of the reviews of the EofR said some of the articles in the HERE were still the best ever written. But, if one were to review Ovadyah/Ignocrates' history of contributions, which have more or less limited themselves to the "James" hypothesis for a more Christian early Christianity, the fact that under his previous name, Ovadyah, he indicates that he e-mailed the founder of the Ebionite Jewish Community, now Ebionite Community, about the development of the article apparently in a way which supports that group, and is even said by an IP on the talk page to have been a member of the group, I think we can see why Ignocrates has pretty much ignored the Nazarene Ebionites, who, apparently, don't agree with the EJC Ebionites.
			::As for WikiProjects, I did post at ]. I just want the BLP template placed on the Keys article, because the SPAs wouldn't even agree that BLP standards applied. Being cautious, I thought an uninvolved editor should add the template. No one added the template or even responded to my post. I also noted the RfC on the lists for Biographies; for History and geography; and for Politics, government, and law. I assume that many WikiProject participants monitor the applicable list for their project.
			::My current inclination: (1) Hope that the AN/I thread gets attention from an admin who can undertake the admittedly burdensome task of addressing the problem. (2) If some time passes and no other admin responds there, I'll try starting a thread at ]. The weakness in that plan is that, even if it elicits comments from a few experienced editors, the SPAs will persist. Past comments from such editors have had no effect on the SPAs. (3) If that doesn't work, I'll consider your suggestion of ]. I've never done one of them and it seems to be a lot of work by me, and then hope that some admin takes an interest. My personal opinion is that the SPAs' violations of ] and ] are much clearer than the charge of contentious editing. If nothing can get done based on violations of two clear policies, I can't be very optimistic about AE. ]<small>&nbsp;]&nbsp;]</small> 20:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Merge vs AfD ==
	:''"Ignocrates ... irrational...dubiously acceptable behavior ...blind stupidity....Ignocrates' hysterial, paranoic, and completely irrational accusation''" You know, all WP guidelines and policies aside,it is sort of disturbing to see this, it seems to show someone in the grip of an obsession. You seriously need to chill out, take a step back, do not look at anything to do with Ignocrates or Ebionites for several months, this bitter feud obviously isn't good for you, and I do not mean to be condescending. There are plenty of other articles on Christianity on WP that need improvement.] (]) 19:59, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz, I'm writing about the odd situation with ]. I don't believe the AfD nominator (Selfstudier) was looking for a Keep result; they supported merging while ] {{tq|Might be better just to AfD it as POVFORK}}. They seem okay with either merging or deletion.
	::::::Also, if you were to review the history of edits to Ret. Prof.'s user talk page, you would see the number of times several editors have tried to reason with him, to, apparently, not a lot of gain. You will also find in the history that I specifically told him that I, unlike Ignocrates, who had indicated he would "protect" Ret. Prof. and has later twice called for RfC/U's against him, apparently thinking both times it only requires one person to do that, I indicated that I would tell Ret. Prof. before taking him to any boards, so I was honor bound to do so. That was the nature of the comment. I very much wish that some editors would see the history of at best dubious conduct and attempts at misdirection which has, pretty much, been the essence of Ovadyah/Ignocrates from the start, along with the paranoia and more than occasional dishonesty, and that is why the ArbCom clerk is preparing the statement to be made for a request. I might do the same myself, and probably would, if the number of reference sources I have at least started on, and the number of articles I am trying to start for WikiSource, weren't taking as much time as they are. ] (]) 17:20, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::P.S. The reason for the lists of sub-articles, by the way, is that in previous discussion at I believe the notability guideline talk page on the subject of Buddhism, I was told that in general named subsections of "thematic" articles can be used as indicators of notability on some of those topics, so having an indication regarding which subtopics might themselves be notable seems reasonable as well. Particularly with the EofR, and to a lesser extent some others, those interminable lists of sub-articles, sub-sub-articles, sometimes to three or four or more levels of outline, is why some works take sooo much longer than others. And, of course, under no circumstances would I say that we would be ''only'' limited to them either, but that they might be usable in such a way. Also, I guess, in all honesty, following policies and guidelines, I think most of our content could, roughly, be said to be best when it basically just says what other existing encyclopedias or reference works say. But there are a lot of them, like I think I told Ret. Prof. once about two a month, including updated volumes, in religion/philosophy/mythology alone. On any topic which is covered extensively in multiple reference sources, the number of times we would need content in our main articles on topics covered by them to include material not included in them is probably few and far between. ] (]) 17:40, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			From my perspective, the merge discussion seemed to effectively evolve into a deletion discussion, especially now that the destination article already has relevant content and can't really fit more. So I thought it was logical to move to AfD, and there seemed to be some agreement for that from both sides of the dispute: myself and ProfGray on one side, Selfstudier and Hemiauchenia (the merge proposer) on the other.
	I want to AGF, ], and you have clearly put a lot of work and thought into your interests and putting together resource lists. But it is hard to look past your negativity, ], ] mentality and ] tactics, not just with ] but you also said horribly harsh comments to ] that led him to quit Misplaced Pages because you disagreed about ''one source''! That was a debate that had gone through the dispute resolution process but it still was a sticking point that was big enough to cause one of the main editors to withdraw from further participation.<br>
	And discovering that these disagreements have gone on for 6+ years (with some of the same and some different) parties is not a good sign of being able to collaborate with others and compromise in the name of consensus.<br>
	I think your last paragraph to me is a good indication of a direction we can go in and maybe the situation can be defused as long as we are talking about content and resources and not the failings that we see in each other and past conflicts. I should do that myself regarding your conduct so I'll end my comment here and try to be more positive myself.<br>
	Let's start anew! ] (]) 20:22, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	:In regard to Smeat75's comment above (I won't interrupt the thread) "You know, all WP guidelines and policies aside,it is sort of disturbing to see this, it seems to show someone in the grip of an obsession.", this is not the first time this observation has been made. I direct your attention to this previous trip to AN/I on Aug. 31, 2010, the second of several, ] and Llywrch's comment in particular which I reproduce here:
	:{{quotation|Although this thread is practically resolved, I'd like to add one last comment because I've been involved in this dispute in a small way. I hope all of us can agree that John Carter is an established editor who has done praiseworthy work in the past. Further, this article is a controversial one -- which is the case with many subjects where the verifiable facts are few & the speculations -- both expert & fringe -- are many. On the other hand, while the accusations John has made about Ovadyah may perhaps be true, in my experience in the matter '''I have seen no evidence of any wrongdoing by Ovadyah here'''. I suspect this has become one of those conflicts where John has simply become inadvertently obsessed with the conflict & now needs to walk away from this article -- both for his own benefit & the project's -- to simply trust that another set of eyes will catch any possible problems in this article. To repeat the cliche, there are 4,306,067 in the English Misplaced Pages, around half of which are stubs; no need to obsess over just one of them. -- llywrch (talk) 16:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)}}
			I suppose the merge should have been closed before an AfD, but now that the AfD had developed, would you consider reopening it to let it run to conclusion?
	:This has all been said before, and yet it continues, almost 3 years later, without any resolution. ] (]) 22:09, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			I realize it could appear like I'm trying to work around a consensus to merge, but FWIW I those arguments should also be considered by a future AfD closer. I.e. I believe this should be evaluated as a deletion, but with consideration of all relevant arguments. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 22:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
	Yes, ], I read all of the ARBCOM statements from cases Ebionites1 and Ebionites2 along with ANIs, DRs and RfCs, although the harshness of the language varies according to the audience. It is hard to see how those involved can "get past" the damaging words that have been said. I would find it hard if I was the target. Maybe, at this point, an IBan would be best? Unless the parties can forgive, forget and move on...because if these conduct disputes reach ARBCOM, tougher penalties will be involved. ] (]) 22:22, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	:Can you take this bull by the horns and help to resolve this? Contrary to what John Carter seems to believe, I don't hate him at all and never have. Frankly, all I feel for him at this point is pity and sadness. He really needs some help. ] (]) 22:27, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Well, I was accommodating another editor who requested a procedural close since the merger discussion was ongoing. Since the consensus was going in the direction of Keep, it was not clear to me what a Keep would mean if a Merge was also being discussed. Would it negate a decision to Merge? If a Merge was opposed then a Keep decision would be irrelevant because a Merge would already have been rejected. And I didn't see much support for Deletion which is what AFD is typically for, to consider whether or not an article should be deleted. So, I don't see any purpose to having an AFD discussion ongoing while a Merge is being considered if the closure looks like it would just have Kept the article as it is. I don't think an AFD should occur to just see if there is widespread support for a Merge, that's what the Merge discussion is for. So, it looks like this was splintering the debate and since the Merge discussion was started first, I think it should continue.
			:And AFDs should never occur just to verify that an article should be Kept, they should only occur if the nominator is seeking Deletion. Sometimes the outcome for an AFD is a Merge, Redirection or Draftification, but that decision arises out the consensus of the discussion, not as an outcome sought by the nominator. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks for explaining further. So as I understand it, there were two concerns with the AfD:
			::# The filer might not have been seeking deletion.
			::# It was filed during an open merge discussion.
			::On (1), my impression is that several editors like Selfstudier are seeking either a deletion or merge outcome, and probably don't feel strongly about the difference since there isn't really content that would be merged. The practical difference might just be a redirect. For example mentioned supporting "either deletion or merging"; the merge proposer also planned to file an AfD. I guess what I'm saying is, we can have someone else file if needed.
			::On (2), I think ideally the merge discussion should be procedural closed (but its arguments still considered) to indicate that it has been supplanted by an AfD, but the question is who should make that call. I think Hemiauchenia might be willing to. If not, we could request an uninvolved closer, where a possible close could involve recommending a change of venue to AfD. Does that sound reasonable? — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 01:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::I don't think that is reasonable at all. The merge discussion had been open a week when the AfD started and had some 25 participants and represented a lot of editor time. The AfD was started without a deletion rationale and any outcome that overturns the merge outcome would instantly be challenged at DRV because it is out of process. It was just making a mess. ] (]) 07:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			==Notice of a discussion I think you'd be interested in knowing about==
	::(e-c) The fact that one somewhat biased party hasn't looked to see the ''repeated'' violation of both conduct and content guidelines, honestly, means nothing. Neither does his own attempt to justify his actions through the statements of others.
	::FWIW, you have apparently not reviewed the regular, almost incessant harassment by Ignocrates, who has described his editing as a "penance" as well, presumably taking the form of promotion of a group which has, despite my own and his best efforts to find them, apparently never appeared gotten anything like sufficient RS coverage to qualify for an article. The fact that you have apparently not even looked to, let alone looked past, the fairly regular misconduct of Ignocrates and Ret. Prof. causes me to perhaps conclude that your assessment is, well, lob-sided, based on only recent activity. I believe, honestly, misconduct of all sorts has been steadier and more regular from them than from me. Ret. Prof. also has been, as per previous versions of his user page, not only "continuing the fight" for the non-RS Tabor book and others, and has been ''repeatedly'' advised/warned by others about his misconduct, yes, even to Ignocrates himself ''twice'' requesting a single-person filed RfC/U against him. Honestly, given the stonewalling of Ovadyah/Ignocrates during the second mediation, when Tabor and the EJC were being considered for removal from the article as non-notable and non-reliable (which they have been from the beginning), and Ret. Prof.'s own misconduct elsewhere. It is also worth noting that Ignocrates has, pretty much since his return from retirement as Ovadyah, been pretty much pathological about attacking me on and off, presumably because I ruined his "penance" of trying to use wikipedia as an advertisement for his favorite non-notable group and his favorite non-RS James Tabor. The fact that he has, to date, so far as I can tell, not only ''never'' edited anything not relating to the "James" hypothesis, and has also, apparently, misrepresented sources, like Ret. Prof., leads me to think that the only way to resolve his own ongoing misconduct is through ArbCOm. Yes, he is a master of posturing, and has, ever since being Ovadyah, regularly talked down to anyone who disagrreed with him, indicating to my eyes there is a very real problem of ego and, yes, pathology there. And, unfortunately, I think if one were to review ''most'' of Ret. Prof.'s edits, one might find them just as problematic as the misrepresentation of sources and his also, rather apparent, almost obsession with thinking single books not referenced in anything else but reviews ''require'' being in articles if the reviews were not negative. In all honesty, when and if the ArbCom reviews this, I believe there is a very good chance, a probability actually, that Ignocrates will be ''seriously'' restricted from editing, and that, very likely, Ret. Prof. will be as well. I wish either one of them were apparently capable, or even interested, in doing anything other than, overtly or covertly, trying to promote books or websites or beliefs that really don't qualify as notable in and of themselves. But, in the history of both of them since I first encountered them, despite my actually having tried to encourage at least Ret. Prof. and I think Ovadyah while he still was Ovadyah to either try to get their views notable in a clear way or edit something else, they both, basically, refused to do so. If penalties are invoked by ArbCom, honestly, fine by me. That would also include almost certainly discretionary sanctions, and that's what I think is most clearly needed here. ] (]) 22:25, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hey Liz, I thought you might want to be aware of ] (which includes not just the linked to thread, but a much larger one further above on VP/WMF). In summary, it appears that the WMF is prepared to imminently disclose personally identifying information about volunteers in a controversial Indian court case, where a news agency is attempting to suppress Misplaced Pages's tertiary coverage of the content of secondary sources (which it considers unflattering) by going after a number of individual editors as defendants. In order to comply with court orders in the case, it seems the WMF is prepared to share this information in what a number of us consider a pretty seismically bad idea and a betrayal of community priorities and values (the WMF has also already used an office action to remove an article reporting on the case, at the direction of the court for what said court regards as legitimate ] reasons).
			While the deletion of the article has been framed by the WMF as temporary step to preserve appeal on the overall case, and there are mixed feelings in the community response as to that so far, there is a much more uniform opposition to throwing the individual editors (at least one of whom is located in India and has profound apprehension about what this could mean for his life with regard to litigation and beyond) under the bus. And yet the WMF appears to be prepared to share the information in question, as soon as Nov. 8. Can I impose upon you to take a look at the matter and share your perspective? '']]'' 00:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I've actually been following this issue for about the past 10 days. I'm always reluctant to jump into a very long discussion that I haven't been part of since the beginning because I'm sure I'll miss something important when I skim through all of the comments. But I agree that this is a very important issue so I'll check in on the current state of the discussion. I appreciate your efforts to publicize this problem. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks Liz: it's a novel form of project activity for me and I'm not sure my approach is optimized for exposure, but I've made such efforts as I could. '']]'' 09:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Deletion review for ] ==
	::: Well, ], it takes two people to work on resolving a dispute and you clearly have no interest in aiming at a collaboration so you could work together or at least, work peaceably on the same articles at different times. I guess you are hellbent on seeing this through to the bitter, bitter end so do what you got to do.
			An editor has asked for ] of ]. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.<!-- Template:DRV notice --> <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 02:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I've already responded at the deletion review but I wanted to thank you for the notification. It's appreciated. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 6 November 2024 ==
	::: By the way, I've gone back years and saw instances where ] was sarcastic and was openly hostile to you and others. But ARBCOM is more concerned with recent history, not five years ago and ] has lately turned his focus off you and on to editing. I wish you could do the same but sometimes, I guess conflict is intractable. I wish ARBCOM luck in sorting through the long, tangled history of this dispute. ] (]) 22:38, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-11-06}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 15--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 08:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	Since Ret.Prof's name has been invoked twice now with respect to two RFC/Us I recommended, it needs to be restated that (1) he was fully informed of my proposals (the second time by email), and (2) I emphasized both times that the purpose was instructional. I consider Ret.Prof to be a friend, and I only wish the best for him including on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 22:35, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1255531917 -->
	: You should also see ] and other links to that page, where he not only said he as Ovadyah thought he had the right to add his opinions if he got it to FA, but also once again resorted to the rather silly, delusional posturing which is more or less his tradmark. ] (])
			== ] ==
	: I feel badly about Ret. Prof. He sincerely listened to criticism and responded to critiques but I think he took too much to heart. He didn't want to work in an adversarial environment. To be honest, ], I came across comments when you were at odds with him, too. But the important aspect is that you were able to move past your differences and collaborate. Ultimately, I think that is what groups like ARBCOM want to see, constructive, not obstructionist behavior. ] (]) 22:43, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	::The reason Ignocrates was willing to work with him was because, as per the hsitory of Ret. Prof.'s user page, Ret. Prof. was "continuing the fight" for Tabor. Ovadyah was, and I think probably still is, passionately in love with one of the few sources which apparently says anything which might reflect the views of the EJC. Yes, after the first arbitration, when Michael was banned, Ovadyah was able to work with him too, for the purposes of keeping some mention of the non-notable neo-Ebionitism that they both were passionately supporting in the article. Willing to work with people willing to, basically, violate guidelines with you in collusion really doesn't to my eyes qualify as being a positive. ArbCom will also, when it gets to them, see how Ret. Prof. was basically primarily supporting him, and it takes no particular character for one POV pusher to agree with someone pushing the same POV when it looks to be in danger of losing out per policy and guidelines. ] (]) 22:50, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::Your apparent obsession with ] is, frankly, incomprehensible. That is no way to treat a notable scholar ] and fellow Wikipedian ]. There are far bigger problems here than just with me as an editor. You also neglected to mention that the editor who created the neo-Ebionite section of the ] article was -- you, John Carter. ] (]) 23:09, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::Diff? Details? Relevance? Was it, perhaps, a way to get the material off the Ebionites article, and might the IP that was apparently Shemaiah's statement he didn't want a separate article involved in other's opinions. Not that I would expect them, because, honestly, the above comment seems to be just another attempt at diversion from the crucial issue. And, regarding the knee-jerk defense of Tabor, as has been repeatedly demonstrated at RSN and elsewhere, ] fails to meet RS standards. Although, of course, I understand the absolute need to defend the opinions which are so clearly favored by the neo-Ebionite community, which you apparently represent, at any cost, even to the point of making basically completely off-topic and irrelevant comments as the one above to serve as distractions. Also, I was referring to the attempt to recreate the ], again, which you were apparently involved wanting recreated, even if it did violate policies and guidelines. ] (]) 23:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi, dear Liz, thank you for earlier. I'd like to report sock puppets but I'm not sure how to do it. If you can help me I'd appreciate it if you could report ] and ]. ] (]) 06:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
	: From ]"Some people get so upset over a past dispute that they look at everything through a lens of "So-and-so is a bad editor and is out to get me." ]. An enforced parole of "don't interact with this other editor" may be something to try in these cases."
			:Hello, ],
			:It's not a process that is easy to describe here. I would just go to ], look at some of the open cases listed on that page and then follow the instructions to open a new case which is pretty obvious if you review the page. As a warning to you though, Checkusers will not connect registered accounts to IP addresses because it can be an invastion of privacy, sockpuppet investigations are really to compare registered accounts with each other. So, if you just have this registered account and an IP address, I don't think it would be worth your time to go through the steps to set up a case. But I suggest you at least look over the SPI main page so you are more familiar with the process. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Additionally, I just noticed that ] is blocked for two weeks so that might help out with any problem you are having. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Dear Liz, Thank you for letting me know. ] (]) 06:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::I thought they might accept it, so I made the request. ] Thank you. --] (]) 07:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Award ==
	As I said, I do not think ARBCOM will be well-inclined to be re-re-visiting this same area for a third time. They will be looking at whether editors have matured over the past six years and the inability to let go of past differences is not a good sign.
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	But it is definitely time to move this conversation off my Talk Page and into ARBCOM or DRN or wherever this is headed. ] (]) 23:21, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | ]
	:FYI, there is a new ArbCom principle, mandated editor review, which allows editors to only make changes to an article after it has been approved by an independent admin. I have a feeling that might well happen here. Also, FWIW, I have in the past contacted editors who have retired, even Ovadyah, after he seemingly retired admitting his own lack of competence, and ], who, honestly, was also according to his response e-mail, forwarded to ArbCom, apparently in violation of conduct guidelines from day one on the Josephus on Jesus content. It would certainly be possible for you to try to e-mail Ret. Prof. and advise him to perhaps come back, although I might suggest that he concentrate perhaps a bit more on material that is clearly notable and of sufficient independent notable content that it wouldn't violate OR/SYNTH. We could use another few editors in religion, although, given his history, I think his focus on minor topics probably makes him one we can function without, at least if he acts the same way he did earlier. ] (]) 23:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	::I admitted nothing of the kind. However, I was contacted by email by John Carter, after I announced my retirement and ceased editing, and explicitly threatened. ] (]) 23:56, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::Good lord, man, have you ever learned to read, or is your blind rage about Tabor being determined non-RS and the EJC non-notable incapable of you even being able to read. I was, I thought, rather clearly indicating it was Lung salad who was in violation of policy. And yes, I did indicate after your own e-mail, referring to me in the most ridiculous and frankly juvenile insults I have ever encountered from an alleged adult, say that if you came back I would request sanctions against you. When you did return, honestly, I gave you a ''bit'' of a chance, based on the idea that you may have grown up a little. Of course, I could not have been more mistaken in that point, and that is why you are going to ArbCom shortly. ] (]) 00:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" |
	Liz, I feel for you to have this ongoing feud spill over onto your talk page. I hope this does not sour you on Misplaced Pages. However, this feud has gotten to the point where something must be done, since neither party seem to be able to disengage & let this matter go.--] (]) 06:01, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Civility Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your collaboration and kindness, you deserve this award. Best regards! ] (]) 15:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thank you, ], this is very kind of you. I'm not sure that I'm always civil but I try! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::You are cool, say what you want to say, and straight forward. Mine kind of people. Lets keep on this project going on better and better, and, please, poke me for whatever you need. I had been away and only focused on football for the last decade, or so, but earlier I had been active in many more areas of Misplaced Pages because I always did and still do find this one of the most amasirog projects on the entire internet. ] (]) 19:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Drafts ==
	: I agree, ]. This is not about content or contributions but about editor conduct now. It's been going on for 6+ years, has already been through the ARBCOM request process twice (along with other RfCs and dispute resolution noticeboards) but it seems destined to head to ARBCOM again. While I'm sad to see that this dispute seems irreconcilable, I hope ARBCOM can definitively end this feud. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:30, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
	:: I believe the irreconciliability is due to one party flouting policies and guidelines for the purposes of POV pushing, if even subtle and less than obvious POV pushing, which is why I believe it will go to ArbCom. But, if you wish some sort of (admittedly, weak) attempt at throwing out an olive branch, you seem to be involved in the topic of Sociology, which is like some others a bit problematic because it isn't, well, cut and dried like some hard sciences. I live in a major city with several really good libraries. If there are any groups like WikiProject Sociology or others you might be interested in seeing lists of articles for, let me know. And, also, FWIW, Ret. Prof. does apparently have e-mailed enabled, so if you were to want I think you might be able to drop him a note requesting his return. like I have with a few others. Sometimes it can be helpful. ] (]) 23:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: Well, at this point, it's up to ARBCOM to sort out (if you are going to file). I think this dispute has been talked to death, with no resolution in sight.
	::: As for WikiProject Sociology, the last time I looked, there were only 3 or 4 people signed up for it and they weren't all regular editors. It's in such bad shape, it's hard to know where to start. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 00:20, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::Speaking from some degree of experience of projects in general, that minimal number isn't that atypical. And even some huger projects, like Christianity, have a lot of people signed up, but not that many actively involved. Unfortunately. Regarding a lot of the "soft" topics, like psychology, sociology, virtually ''anything'' new-agey, and the paranormal in all its varieties, there tend to be quite a few people who have indicated an interest, often in promoting their local minister or their own particular beliefs, who show less interest in anything else, and, when they've done what they set out to do as well as they can, kinda disappear. A lot of the lists I've made so far, like the Jehovah's Witnesses list and the list of Ethiopian Christianity articles (written by someone who knows Ge'ez and French rather well, but not so much English, to the point that subject and verb rather regularly disagreed and sometimes I couldn't be sure what he was even talking about), those reference sources ''aren't'' considered extraordinarily good by anyone, but they are, seemingly, about the only ones out there on the topic. I think I looked over the ''Encyclopedia of Sociology'' some time ago, and, if I am right in ''assuming'' it's considered OK, I can try to generate a list based on it in the next few weeks. Getting some sort of newsletter like the MILHIST Bugle together for maybe some closely related groups in that field might work too, and maybe, like MILHIST, getting some sort of content going with barnstar awards. Ultimately, on finishing the "religion" related lists, I'm somewhat hoping to go on to those other, "soft science" groups as well, along with South America, Africa, Oceania, and a few other important but comparatively neglected and underdeveloped topics. Anyway, if I get tired of looking at the Jones edition of the EoR (which happens a lot now) and just want to look at something which doesn't go on about rituals and sexual symbolism of, depending on the individual culture, damn near everything, I might just do it as a bit of a change of pace. ] (]) 14:51, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
			Please restore all the drafts you deleted. Thank you. ] (]) 15:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Michaelzeng7|AfD|ts=03:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 03:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			:@], Liz deletes a lot of drafts, and many of yours definitely shouldn't be recreated. Are there some specific ones you'd like to have back? -- ] (]) 00:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Talkback==
			::Yes, ], you will have to be more specific and list the deleted drafts you want restored. You can also request restoration of a draft deleted for CSD G13 reasons at ]. But I have deleted tens of thousands of draft articles for legitimate reasons and I'm not going to blindly restore them all because you requested this. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	{{talkback|Michaelzeng7|AfD|ts=13:57, 13 August 2013 (UTC)}}
			:::I'm sorry for being vague. I would like to have ] restored. That's the only I want returned right now. Now that I have returned, now what... Any advice for me? ] (]) 03:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	] (]) 13:57, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			::::Hello, ],
			::::{{done}} Sorry, I didn't recognize your name and didn't know that you had been unblocked. You were quite a prolific editor and I deleted many of your drafts during the time period you were blocked as they went stale. In the page history of your User talk page, there should be a record of notices from FireflyBot so you can see which drafts were due to be deleted via CSD G13. I'm happy to restore any of those articles if you give me a list of the ones you wish to continue working on. Any way, welcome back. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::My only advice is not to sock. There is no benefit from doing so, only risks and sanctions. If you want to have an alternate account, make it a legitimate one and put a notice on both User pages identifying it as such. I think that is where you got into trouble.
			:::::Also, among editors working on recently released films, there is some kind of rivalry on being the editor who creates the article for a new film and multiple editors in this area have been indefinitely blocked for taking shortcuts like overwriting another editors' work or tagging a page for deletion and then recreating it yourself. Don't get caught up in this nonsense because, truthfully, no one is keeping score of "who got there first". Focus on quality, not speed. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::::↑↑↑This is fantastic advice; I have been tempted many times to approach you, {{U|Crafterstar}}, regarding your creation, abandonment, and requested restoration of drafts. I have never seen this pattern outside of editors trying to be "first" when a draft they created becomes notable. It's not a particularly well-regarded approach to article creation.-- ]<sup>]</sup> 20:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::::::], there is also one other area where I see this happen and that is with hurricanes, tropical storms and tornadoes. But luckily, there is a fairly sizeable community of editors working on storms, they have created their own norms and they generally police themselves. And this has come up with some articles on elections and current events as seen on ANI and in a recent arbitration case. But the movie business is so big, prolific and announces upcoming movies years ahead of them being made, spreading across lots of countries that it is on a different scale as those other subjects. I've seen drafts kept "alive" for 3-5 years just because a film has been announced to be produced but nothing has happened on it yet. There is a lot of anticipation surrounding them, especially some big budget films and sequels. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::::The draft work is a useful process in the situations you note as the event (whether it be political, a storm, or similar) is imminent. It's a staging area where multiple editors work together in preparation to publish an article on a soon-to-be notable topic. The mass creation of drafts based on announcements is just sort of...hoarding. It really appears, to me, as an attempt at owning the creation. -- ]<sup>]</sup> 20:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:ok. Thank you for the feedback. If anyone else have any thing to say, please do. ] (]) 23:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Thanks!==
	Very tedious job, so it's always nice to get positive feedback :-) <b>]]<font color="#00b">]</font></b> 15:23, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
	: I can imagine. Tracking Twitter trends exposed me to a lot of music fan gushing that I wish hadn't eaten up as much time as it did. I'd be happy to never see another Excel spreadsheet but I know they are unavoidable. Your work is appreciated! ] (]) 17:14, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			==Removing links after AfDs==
	== Took your advice ==
			Hello Liz. Sorry to bother you, but I've noticed on several occasions you have closed AfDs on North Korean footballers (as delete) and then removed links to the article. The issue is that some of the links you are removing were incorrectly linking to the footballer and should have been linking to a politician of the same name. For example, in you removed a valid redlink to a member of parliament who would be deemed notable under ]. I wouldn't say anything if this was a one-off, but it's happened repeatedly over the past year (see of the 2014 North Korean election article, where this has happened at least seven times). As this seems to be specifically an issue for North Korea, could you be a bit more careful when closing AfDs on North Korean footballers if the outcome is to delete? Cheers, ] ]] 00:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	I took your advice and went to WP:NPOV/N. Please keep a watch on Gospel of the Ebionites. Thanks. ] (]) 23:53, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	: Good luck with that. It seems like you guys have gone round and round on these issues. I hope you get some definitive answers. ] (]) 01:53, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
			:First, you are not bothering me. Thank you for bringing this issue to me but I'm not sure exactly how to respond. You say these are links are from articles deleted through AFDs and XFDcloser removes all links to deleted articles as part of its deletion process. And I'm not the only AFD closer, where are probably half dozen regular AFD admin closers and we all behave similarly, as far as I know. So, if this problem has reoccured then it's because I'm the only closer that has handled articles about North Korean footballers. The closure process doesn't make it easy to examine links to other articles to see what they are, it's kind of an "all or none" option and most (all?) closers choose to remove all links.
	::I am super-impressed with how professional the guys have been at NPOV/N. The feedback has been useful and at the very least it's due diligence for the next round of dispute resolution. ] (]) 04:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
			:I also wonder how common it is that a North Korean football player has the same name as a politican. Is this really a big issue? All I can offer you as a soljution is that I skip closures of AFDs about North Korean football players but I think you will run into the same issue with any other closer who does handle them. It's just the way XFDcloser operates and closers are dependent on this editing tool. I'm sorry that I can't offer you a more elegant solution than for me to just cease closing these AFDs. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Are you sure that these links are all removed because of AFDs? Because we see a lot of North Korean football players in PROD'd articles and that is a different situation entirely. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Question: when using XFDcloser, do you see a list of pages you are about to edit/just edited when removing the links? Otherwise, it might be a good idea to check your own contributions after running the script, just to verify that removing the links made sense. For example, after you closed the Ri Yong-chol AfD, you made edits to the following pages:
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*]
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*]
			:::*] *
			:::*] *
			:::Knowing you just deleted an article about a football player, many of those are obviously correct. However, the ones I marked with a * above are not as obvious, so you should verify whether your edit made sense and possibly self-revert. Obviously, that's not always necessary, only when the name of the deleted article could be ambiguous. And looking at your contributions, most deleted articles have far fewer incoming links, so checking if the removals made sense is even less work.
			:::<small>(note: in this case, {{u|Number 57}} already fixed the two election pages, I fixed four others, and the last one is a list of people with that given name, so it's a correct removal.)</small> --] (]) 13:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::Apologies, I didn't realise it was automatically done by XFDcloser rather than you doing it. It's not a massive problem, but just as it had happened so often I thought it would be worth bringing to your attention. Perhaps it's an issue for XFDcloser and tweaking that so closers can examine the incoming links to make sure they are all relevant? I've never used it, so not sure how it works. ] ]] 15:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Retrieving my draft titled "The Jackson 5 Us Tour" ==
	== Please comment on ] ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 43795 --> ] (]) 15:15, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
			I request for this draft titled "The Jackson 5 US Tour" that was taken down by you on October 4, 2024. I wasn't aware until now that it was lacking editing and that it was taken. I'd like my draft back. ] (]) 03:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Thanks ==
			:Hello, ],
	Thank you so much for your comments on the ANI board at ]. I was in abject despair about the way so many ganged up on me without cause. To have a little common sense applied was (to me) like giving water to a man in the desert. I really do hope it's caused others to stop and have pause for thought. ] (]) 09:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Please provide a link to the deleted page. Then I can see why it was deleted. That will determine whether or not it can be restored. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	: Oh, you're welcome, ]. That got really ugly. I've been reading a lot of noticeboards and dispute resolution cases lately and it seems like half of the time, the conversation ] back on to the OP and he or she ends up facing sanctions for bringing a case to a noticeboard. The OP becomes the topic of discussion instead of the original complaint that is filed.
			::https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:The_Jackson_5_US_Tour&action=edit&section=2 ] (]) 06:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	: It seems unfair that 3 or 4 vocal opponents in an ANI can generate a topic ban when the original question was on something else entirely. I'm so glad that the people reading the page could see the transparent attack upon you. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			:::{{done}} This was a straight CSD speedy deletion G13, stale draft, ]. These are easily restored. You can find it at ]. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
			== ] ==
	::P.S. Sorry I missed seeing this when you first posted it. It's time to move some discussion on my Talk Page. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:31, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			I was almost certain I added a reference and deproded this article. Could you check in the history to see if I did, or am I not remembering right? Thanks, ] (]) 18:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	== ''The Signpost'': 14 August 2013 ==
			:Hello, ],
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
			:You are right, I was wrong. Sometimes, I open up articles, each in a tab, that are due to be deleted. I saw in the page history that you added content but I didn't note that you had removed the PROD tag, this is often noted in an edit summary. But I should have refreshed my screen. Thanks for being on top of this and your work on PROD'd articles. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-08-14}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 32-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 09:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0598 -->
	== Popular pages talkback ==		== Altenmann's doubling down ==
	{{Tb|User_talk:West.andrew.g/Popular_pages}}
			Hey Liz,
	== Please comment on ] ==
			Thanks for attempting to intervene with {{ping|Altenmann}}, who I have pinged for transparency. Unfortunately, they are clearly not getting the message that they're deep into battleground behavior. And insulting my coding ability, telling me I should be shamed by my behavior, and frankly, just throwing a temper tantrum instead of trying to actually engage in the issue, is not helping them achieve their desired outcome. Frankly, I'm surprised that they have so many edits (200k+) and think that this kind of behavior is acceptable. I think that they should be embarrassed by their behavior. I'd rather not waste ANI's time if it can be prevented. ] 01:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44033 --> ] (]) 15:15, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Sure thing, politely revert warring with cosmonauts in the category of Russian Empire is a nice and pleasant behavior. Surely you are not ashamed of your ] attitude. Your coding creates a mess in wikipedia category, and it is a fact, not an insult. Yes with my 200k+ non-automated edits have brought me in a contact with plenty of bullies and sometimes I am losing temper. --] ] 01:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Hello, ],
			::This is typical of my experience with this editor over the years. Every once in a while, they will post here IRATE, not displeased but seriously angry, over some random edit I made that is just typical of the editing I do, nothing out of the ordinary at all. But it drew their attention and they were not happy about it.
			::When I tried to discuss the situation, they might have made some parting shot but then they just moved back to continue editing like nothing had ever happened. I'm sure given their MO over their long tenure here, there is enough for an ANI complaint about civility but it would take a lot of time to track down all of the diffs and I'm sure you'd rather be editing categories. If I were you, I'd try to just shake it off and know that you are just the latest target of their displeasure and they are unlikely to be hounding you. I think especially among editors who been editing here for a long-time, they just learn to avoid disputes by keeping their distance from editors who push their buttons. No one at Misplaced Pages gets along with everyone. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Thanks Liz, it's good to know that this is just what they do. I assume that after the CFD closes with a rename, they'll move on to their corner of the internet. And yep, you're right, I'd much rather be futzing around with categories :) ] 01:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Request to re-open ] ==
	== Teahouse talkback: you've got messages! ==
	{{Misplaced Pages:Teahouse/Teahouse talkback|WP:Teahouse/Questions|How can I receive an alert?|ts=] <sup><font face="Calibri">'']''</font></sup> 15:16, 17 August 2013 (UTC)}}
	==Assigning religious affiliation to editors==
	I didn't expect my comment to In ictu oculi to have such "legs". It was really just a corrective statement directed to him, to be more careful with language, and not a condemnation of him or any other party. Every single person has their own biases but at least in the Misplaced Pages universe, we try to set aside biases in the interest of obtaining accurate representations, regardless of our personal allegiances. I apologize to Iio if my words came across as reproving or harsh. NewJerseyLiz Let's Talk 21:12, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
	::No they came off as ill-informed and justifying sectioning another editor's Talk posts (no matter how silly) "JW views." The comment about imagine "Jew" was particularly silly if you're not intending to follow it up on those actually JW-hounding and instead support the behaviour. ] (]) 01:48, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: Well, I just expected you to either accept or reject my apology for coming across as harsh but I still maintain that your language revealed a bias. I should have left out the part of adding the "e" to J and W but it was to illustrate a point that no one could get away with an antiSemitic comment but JWs seem fair game to some. This is not news on Misplaced Pages, I see the same kind of statements when people are talking about other sectarian religious movements. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 01:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::Exactly, so don't support editors hounding JWs. Practise what you preach, rather than criticising others who do do what you preach. ] (]) 04:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::I thought you said you object to talking behind the back of other editors? And then, you say ''practise what you preach''? Anyway...
	:::::Indicating a particular view as that of JWs or Jews or any other group doesn't express a personal judgement of any editor. But the old thread explicitly stated that 607 is a JW teaching ''anyway''. Refactoring the page was in fact uncontroversial, and hardly tantamount to saying 'none of us like JWs'.--] (]) 04:21, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Your edit history shows otherwise per ]. ] (]) 04:23, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::I do not need explain or justify my involvement on the JW WikiProject to you.--] (]) 04:27, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::And you are misusing ]. It states: "'''Whom ''not'' to tag (SPA tagging guidelines)''' ... '''Editing only within a single broad topic''': When identifying single-purpose accounts, it is important to consider what counts as a diverse group of edits. For example, subjects like spiders, nutrition, baseball, and geometry are diversified topics within themselves. If a user only edits within a broad topic, this does not mean the user is an SPA."--] (]) 04:41, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::<i>Practise what you preach</i> ...I try to. And I will criticize discriminatory language when I see it. If one lets comments like "we don't like JWs" go unaddressed, then people assume that everyone agrees with that statement. And I think it's important to point out bias when we see it. I don't think one needs complete knowledge of and participation in a dispute to recognize words of prejudice. I don't see my role as being a watchdog for JW editors or those who dislike them.
	:::::::: What I was apologizing was not what I said but how I said it. But, for some reason, you take my admission of error as an invitation to provoke me, which is a puzzling reaction. Most people would say, "No problem, I understood what you meant" or "Thanks, but that was hurtful." My intention was to ease any tensions between us, In ictu oculi, not continue the debate between you and Jeffro77 on to this Talk Page. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 13:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::: Regarding Jeffro, he more or less ''is'' an SPA, although I think in large part the reason behind it is not a particular obsession with the topic, but a realization over the years that the content regarding the JWs needs a lot of independent oversight. Unfortunately, for a lot of groups, including just about any that have ever been called "cults", we more or less need to have people like that on those topics. On the comparatively few occasions when I have interacted with him on topics not related to the JWs, like on a template on Christian heresies, he has been as reasonable and objective as anyone else, and even in that particular case AFAIK indicated he didn't want to see any modern groups included, including the JWs, although in a lot of regards they resemble groups which were tagged as "heretical" in early Christianity, so I don't think he has anything against them particularly. But, yeah, particularly today, with the frikkin 4 million articles of various standards of notability, and more being created, on pretty much anything, I regret that we probably need more informed, comparatively neutral SPAs like Jeffro watching over some topics than we have. And, as someone who has gotten a bit of a bashing over the years at least in part because of his efforts to keep the JW content NPOV, so far as I can remember primarily from those within the group rather than without, I can imagine that he might well once in a while get a little tetchy. I wish no one were ever in that situation around here, but things being what they are, in some cases it is bound to happen. ] (]) 15:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::: I agree with much of what you say, ]. I'm more sympathetic than you to NRMs and sects because I spent a fair amount of time studying them and working as a research assistant to a NRM scholar. On topics like religion, it is almost impossible to be completely free of bias, even when you are writing about a religious tradition that is not your own.
	:::::::::: I think the important thing is be aware of your own bias and keep it in check. I was in a graduate program where the concepts of ], ] and ] was drilled into us which and they mean that you accept but try to set aside your bias (positive or negative) when researching religion and you respect the religious traditions of others even if they are not meaningful or valid for you, personally. As far as writing about religion on Misplaced Pages, it seems like one advantage of open source knowledge is that articles benefit from the contributions of both insiders and outsiders. They both have viewpoints that can offer others some understanding. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 16:32, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::: For the most part, I agree. Unfortunately, around here, we sometimes get into trouble with some topics when either the number of editors with one POV outnumber, are more dedicated, or are sometimes, simply, so difficult to deal with that they manage to take over the content one way or another. Scientology is probably the best example of that here, although Falun Gong comes close. Personally, from some comments I've seen recently, early Christianity seems to be at this point pretty much at the same level of difficulty in various ways. We really can't tell editors from one side or another ''en masse'' to "go away," and I don't think many of us (except those dedicated to the "other" side in those discussions) would really even want to ask them to do it, but I think, looking over the various topics which have discretionary sanctions on them, there is a very large percentage of them which deal with "beliefs" of some kind among them, religious or secular. I hope we can get some guidelines about such content together soon, and, actually, because requests from ArbCom tend to get more attention and response than others, that's one of the reasons I'm going to file a case on this. Some people might say, not unreasonably, that me and some others should have written them already, but a look at some previous attempts can indicate how quickly some previous discussions derailed. Also, honestly, I ain't the best person for writing such anyway, having never really taken part in many guidelines or policies discussions before. But, with luck, maybe we can make things a bit easier to work with soon. ] (]) 18:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
			I would like you to re-open ] because I was on wikibreak so I couldn't participate in the discussion. Per ], since it's officially approved by the government, and it passes ]/] and is very likely to commence operations. Referring to the ] as an example, it was approved in the same month last year and has now started operations. Moreover, we also have ] being approved before the ] and which is yet to start operations. ] (]) 06:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Talkback==
			:Hello, ],
	{{talkback|Koavf|ts=06:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)}}—]<span style="color:red">❤]☮]☺]☯</span> 03:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			:I don't see a strong reason to reopen that AFD. Besides, the article hasn't been deleted, just moved to Draft space. You can work on it at ] and submit it to AFC. No content has been deleted. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Arbcom ==
	== Masters in Religious Studies - Thank you for being here ==
	Honestly, if you ever want to consider becoming the coordinator of WikiProject Christianity (which I am to date the only elected lead coordinator of, us never having had enough candidates to do it again), or WikiProject Religion, you would have my vote, and, maybe, as many other fraudulent votes as I could get through the system. Thank you for returning. ] (]) 16:26, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
			FWIW, I think you'd make a great arb. I hope I see your name on the ballot. ] ] 16:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	: Wow, I'm terribly flattered, ]. I have an MA in Religious Studies and a MPhil in Religion and Society (Sociology of Religion) so I approach religion from a secular perspective, not a theological one. The focus of my work was studying divisions and conflict within contemporary American denominations, and, secondarily, Religions in North American and NRMs (most of which couldn't be called "Christian"). But I'm not sure I'm equipped to handle editors (either veteran or IP visitors) who want to rewrite church history or who hate Catholics or who forget that Eastern Orthodoxy exists or who are atheists and want to put everything "religious" in quotation marks because they see it as questionable.
	: Can you tell me about your participation in WikiProject Christianity and how it stands today? I'm happy to handle organizing or negotiate disputes but if things are very divisive, it might be a bad time for a newbie to take on larger responsibilities because the situation is in flux.
	: I'm also not sure if this dispute between you, Ignocrates and Ret.Prof is about differences of opinion (regarding COI and RS) and past misconduct, or if it reflects a broader rift between editors who work on articles in this area. If it is the former, I think an ARBCOM decision can decide things but if there are fundamental divides based on theological differences, I think someone with more experience should probably take this on.
	: If you could give me your candid opinions on any of these questions, I'll consider it. Thanks again for asking. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:42, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:: Dispute resolution is more or less what you're talking, not so much coordination. Although I'm not that familiar with ], which is much better run than any of the religion groups, and has made us from what I've seen the best military website out there, the coordinators try to more or less get people to work together, getting assessments done, article development, contests, that sort of thing. As an individual, I really am more the lone wolf-type, and I know I come across as a smug, self-satisfied dictator a lot more than I probably like to as a result. Regarding the recent problems you mention above, that's more I think about content and the rules here than conduct. I've ''tried'' to find independent sources which support or give much attention to the Butz theory of James, which was one of Ret. Prof.'s first topics of major concern, but haven't. I also tried to find sources for Ovadyah/Ignocrates' Ebionite Jewish Community/Ebionite Community, but even it's local paper hasn't had anything on it from what I can see in the databanks. While there is a theological dispute involved, in some sense, so far as I can tell, it is about a theological position which, to the best of my knowledge and understanding here, doesn't meet notability in and of itself, and which we can't put forward without violating, to some degree, OR/SYNTH. If I knew of any independent reliable sources which gave sufficient content in them linking Tabor, and Butz, and Robert Eisenman, and god knows all the others so that we could have one article or even section of an article on the "Jewish James hypothesis," about how James led a much more Jewish version of Christianity which has died out and might at some point resurface, a lot of the problems would be solved. But I don't know of any, and neither of them has ever come forward with any that I can remember either. There might be some sort of church out there, like the EJC and maybe others, which actually themselves put forward some version of the hypothesis, but I couldn't find any in the Melton Encyclopedia of American Religions or any other similar sources I looked in, so I can't say that there is even a notable theory there. I wish, but, to the best of my ability to determine it, what they seem to want is something I wouldn't myself mind seeing here, and as indicated above I even, assuming good faith and some sort of independent coverage on the neo-Ebionite groups, created an article on the neo-Ebionites, which was deleted as non-notable. There are a ''lot'' of web churches out there, unfortunately, many of which haven't been referenced in any independent RS's, and so far as I can tell the groups and theories they want to promote are among them. The fact that, unfortunately, both seem to believe that their material should be included anyway is a problem, and I think per policy and guidelines not acceptable, even if I myself wish that there were enough material for inclusion of them as per policies and guidelines. ] (]) 19:26, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::: Two things: Gordon Melton is the researcher I worked for, years ago, he is a walking encyclopedia, he knows so much. He's an independent scholar but he donated this enormous library to UCSB and I worked with him on archiving the collection. Second, we had an awesome professor of Early Christianity at UCSB but he always got mixed teaching evaluations because the students who enrolled in his courses were taught scripture studies from a theological perspective, not a historical perspective. It was troubling to them when he showed them how much doubt existed about the primary sources that exist in this field of scholarship. I think it's actually a more controversial area to work in than Scientology...with Scientology, you can clearly see pro- and con- bias but with Early Christianity, you really need to have a familiarity with ancient languages to assess the arguments of scholars. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 19:39, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::: Do not repeat that I more or less regard Melton as almost some sort of prophet for us here, given the amazing amount of extremely highly regarded reference works he has put out. With any luck, if the Arb is accepted, one of the things that might happen is that we will have some editors from outside religion and "beliefs" maybe working on guidelines for that area, which we don't have yet. I certainly plan to ask for such, and we might be able to get together, maybe, some sort of idea of how to deal with web churches. I hope so. Previous attempts at guideline drafting got sidetracked rather quickly, unfortunately, by some individual editors with very strong opinions. That's why I'm hoping the more, well, ''serious'' nature of a request from ArbCom to draft guidelines, we might be able to get something together which people might at least accept. And, personally, I ''do'' hope for some way to get included some web faiths, like the modern form of ], which is extensively mentioned at ], which is neither independent or reliable by our standards, but so far as I can see not yet discussed in any ''independent'' sources such that we would have much reason to have content on it. ] (]) 19:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::: No, it's no secret that Gordon is "the man"! The man basically started collecting material on NRMs starting in the early 1970s and never threw anything away! Then, he started going back to gather older historical documents and not only that, he remembers every conversation he's had and everything he's read. The only people who don't care for him are the most strident anti-cult folks because he had an open door policy...he'd organize a conference and ask people from NRMs to come and talk about their beliefs and societies and some people who hate cults (not specific ones, just cults in general) thought he was giving them a platform to evangelize. But the NRM reps. still had to write up a standard academic presentation so it's not like they were trying to convert anyone in the audience. But for some people, choosing not to judge others is seen as evidence that you agree with them which is just not the case. 20:06, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
			:{{+1}} <span style=white-space:nowrap;>] <span style="background-color:#e6e6fa;padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black">]</span></span> 19:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Speedy deletion declined: ] ==
			::Thank you, ] and ]. I had a pretty grueling RFA but that was 9 years ago so maybe this wouldn't be a repeat of that experience. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	Hello Newjerseyliz. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of ], a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: '''That notable people are playing in it is a good indication of notability. Needs to be PRODded or taken to AfD.''' Thank you. ]] 11:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
	: That's fair, ]]. Feel free to object and move it to somewhere more appropriate. It seemed to me to be a local sporting event and I didn't see it's significance for Misplaced Pages. Lots of communities have golf tournaments or marathons or tennis tournaments and don't have a Misplaced Pages page about it. But I could be wrong. Good luck! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:34, 19 August 2013 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	== Valerie Sutton ==		== They changed username ==
	I see that you succeeded in getting the article on Valerie Sutton deleted. It is absolutely stupid things like this that are why I hardly ever edit Misplaced Pages anymore and stick to Wikia, where I don't run into such things.
			I'm leaving that anonymous here in case it breaches any outing policy 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 19:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	VS created a system to record movement. It is now used by many people. I do not see how you could possibly consider the article, as written, to be nothing but a promotion for her systems. It was purely a biography and a history of how the system of movement writing came to be designed.
			:I don't understand, ]. I didn't see any indication of a changed username and generally, when a username is changed the renamer moves their user pages to those corresponding to the new username. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			::I noticed it on 9 Nov 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 19:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::I agree it is peculiar. 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 19:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::Hey, ]. The same thing just happened with ] who might now be ]. Do we have a new renamer who doesn't know what they are doing? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::I am not sure. If it is the same one then a polite enquiry might bear fruit. I don't get very close to arcane things like renaming, I'm afraid 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 21:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Radka Zelníčková ==
	The article was no more a promotion than a biography of Henry Ford is a commercial for Ford cars, or a biography of Bill Gates a commercial for Microsoft.
	You've given me one more reason not to bother editing on Misplaced Pages. -- ] (]) 12:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)		Hello @] I thought I'd answer your question here rather than on the AFD discussion as it isn't relevant to whether the article is deleted or not (it'll be not by the way). ] (]) 00:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Welcome to my User talk page. But I don't see an answer here. And because I edit so much, I've forgotten what the question was. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Hello again @] I've now left an answer on the page in question. I've had enough of all this business and would like to be left alone now. I will not be participating in any further AFD matters after the current ones are closed as 1 I started doing Misplaced Pages for fun not hassle and 2 the process is a biased farce based on who says what rather than facts and rule adherence. Have a great day 🙂 ] (]) 11:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			== AfD Barnstar ==
	: I'm sorry if my action is part of the reason why you might quit editing on Misplaced Pages, ]. The reason for the article deletion was:
			{{AfD Barnstar|For all the work you dedicate, every day, to closing or relisting so many discussions. Thank you for keeping AfD ticking! ] <sup>]]</sup> 03:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)}}
	::"G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion: image is copyright, "refs" are spamlinks, not independent, don'tsupport text support.
			:Thank you, ], I've never seen this barnstar before. You must have created it. There's about half a dozen of us regular AFD discussion closers, happy to play a part. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	: You can always appeal a deletion, of course (nothing is ever truly deleted!). I know that deleted pages can be restored if an editor can say they will address the problems that existed in the article. I don't know the specific page to go to so I'd suggest asking ] for clarification about this deletion. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''N'''''ew'''''J'''''ersey'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 12:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			::You're welcome! Yes, I did create it, because it must take so much effort for you (and the other closers) to do the pretty thankless task of reviewing ALL the AfDs that close every day and I thought a little recognition was in order. I thanked you first because from what I've you always throughly evaluate the consensus and close with reasonable ATDs that might not have been considered. So, thanks I guess! ] <sup>]]</sup> 05:33, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	::It is hard to "address the problems that existed in the article" because I cannot figure out what words you found to be "unambiguous advertising or promotion." I can't for the life of me figure out what words led you to characterize it as such.
			:::Well, if I have a bias in closing AFDs, ], It's not for "Keep" or "Delete", it's for a valid ATD. But I found out early on when I first started that I can't introduce an ATD, it has to come out of the discussion. So, hopefully, a participant can find a relevant article to redirect to and bring it up in the discussion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	::By not stating where you found words that were "promotional," you gave me no way to defend the article specifically. It's blind-side attacks like this that make me disinclined to do anything on Misplaced Pages except correct typos and stuff like that. --] (]) 03:43, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: ], I tagged the article because it was self-promotional, it read like a fan page and had few references. But I don't believe you have to rebut my reasons for tagging it, just make a good argument about why it shouldn't have been deleted.
	::: But as I said above, I recommend you contact ] for clarification as he was the user who actually deleted the article. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Navy">]</font> <font face="Times New Roman" color="Green">]</font></sup> 13:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
			== Deleted redirect from student mis-merging ==
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Koavf|ts=15:52, 19 August 2013 (UTC)}}
	—]<span style="color:red">❤]☮]☺]☯</span> 15:52, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz,
	== Please comment on ] ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44152 --> ] (]) 17:15, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			] had been a bare stub in mainspace. Then a student-project began working on it in draft-space. It was recommended they merge the stub with the draft, which they did. But they did "stub merge+redirect to draft", rather than leaving the stub existing until the draft was ready to move to mainspace. Should the mainspace be undeleted and returned to the stub state, rather than losing mainspace content? ] (]) 05:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	== LGBT guidelines ==
			:Hello, ],
	Hey, just checking if you saw my response to your post about LGBT categorization guidelines. –] (] &sdot; ]) 18:31, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Oh, my, ], thanks for letting me know. I did some work with CfD in late July and there didn't seem to be a lot of movement so I hadn't checked back. Now I will! Is this in ]? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)		:Feel free to do whatever you think is appropriate. It was just deleted as an CSD R2, cross-namespace redirect, not because of the content. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks for the quick response! ] (]) 06:06, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	:: I didn't see any response to my question at ] so maybe you can point me to the right page. Thanks! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 18:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			:::Well, ], I"m trying to turn over a new leaf. I have been remiss in not replying to messages on my talk page very promptly. I was waiting until the end of the day to respond to them all and then something would come up. I'm trying a new way of responding to messages soon after they are posted. Wish me luck. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	:::Ah, sorry, ]. –] (] &sdot; ]) 18:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			::::"Good luck!" If you're in the northern hemisphere at the moment, perhaps you can find some nice autumn leaves for turning-over or shuffling-through. ] (]) 06:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	:::: Thanks, ], I also posted this question at ] and I believe BLP (maybe the WikiProject on Actors, too). I posted a reply to you at ].
	:::: I thought this really was an issue for WP LGBT to decide but since you're giving me the only feedback I've received, I might take it to the RSN and see what they say. They are pretty responsive but I think I already know how they will answer (documentation is required). <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 21:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
			== An editor you blocked ==
	== Speedy deletion nomination of Liz/Whiteboard ==
			Hello Liz, you recently blocked from category namespace for improper editing there, and it appears they have now transferred that same behavior to file namespace. Can you please take a look and consider taking additional administrative action? Thanks. ] (]) 09:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	Hello Liz,
			:{{tpw}} It seems like the accounts has now been globally locked. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 10:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	I wanted to let you know that I just tagged ] for deletion, because it seems to be a test. Did you know that the ] is available for testing out edits?
			::Thanks for the update, ] and ]. We have a number of sockmasters who focus on children's TV series and animated films and this was probably one of them. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 16:46, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Your light touch is needed ==
	If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can <span class="plainlinks">''''''</span>, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.
			Hello Liz
	You can leave a note on ] if you have questions. ] (]) 11:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
			Dr. D. presents his compliments, respecting you to be one of the (alas, now very few) sensible and rational administrators of this community.
			Since Dr. D's group members do not edit Misplaced Pages article space, he requests yous to kindly arrange with like minded admins to Revdel all references to his bodies on this project, for which he shall be obliged.
			PS: that's a really cute kitten(meister).
			PPS: The medium is the message ] (]) 17:56, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Welcome to my User talk page. First, I have no idea who Dr. D is so I wouldn't know how to search for references to him on this enormous project. If there aer specific edits you are concerned about, please provide a "diff" or link to an individual edit and I'll see whether or not it fits in with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. There usually has to be a good reason to remove content from an article (unsourced claim, BLP violation, copyright infringement, etc.) so if you could provide a reason why these mentions are unsuitable, that would be helpful. But first, you really have to first provide a real name before any action can be considered.
			:If you have any general questions about editing on Misplaced Pages or its policies and guidelines, please bring them to ] where experienced editors can offer you advice and support. I'm not always available but there is almost always someone available at the Teahouse to address any concerns you have. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Many thanks for the prompt revert. Here's the . and here's in conversation with famous journalist and author . Since we presently have no intention to edit in mainspace, your welcome offer of the Teahouse is politely postponed to a future date. (Sorry for any misunderstands, English is not my first language).] (]) 19:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::Well, I see no reason to revert my comment on ] but I'm not sure that's even what you are asking of me. And you still haven't provided a name for who is this "Dr. D". I read through that link you shared and I didn't see anyone who is a "Dr." who had a last name that started with "D". Your intentions for your contributions on Misplaced Pages are unclear to me so I don't know how to respond to you. You are being very indirect and not spelling out what you want to happen. But discussions on Misplaced Pages are public and not censored as long as they don't violate our guidelines and policies. So, I guess, for the moment, this discussion is over. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::Dr. R.S. Dalvi, CEO of Hindu Raksha Dal requests Administrators of Misplaced Pages (English version) to delete all references to Hindu Raksha Dal and "Hindu News" / "Hindunews.stream" from WMF hosted computer servers. Specifically, for the present, Hindu Raksha Dal desires that the following threads be REVDELed and as they contain unacceptable, derogatory language and ignorant opinions about the organisation and its projects. ] (]) 03:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::I figured out you were referring to "Rajendra Singh Dalvi". I did a search on Misplaced Pages and he is not mentioned in any article on the project. I'm not going to delete entire discussions about the Hindu News and no other admin would either. That would be censorship. Just because a discussion can contain criticism does not make it defamatory. Discussing subjects in detail is how editors come to a consensus on how to treat sources and come to decisions.
			:::::If you want to make a complaint to WMF about this, I recommend going to ] and asking them how to contact our parent organization. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::::Certain privileged confidential material criminally misappropriated from a private website of Hindu News is being discussed on your website by strangers to the Hindu Raksha Dal/HRA. In these discussions highly disparaging and derogatory remarks are being made about Hindu Raksha Dal (an intensely private body) and its projects. Your editors have no cause to discuss HRD / HRA (private bodies) or its private projects, '''it's a blatant violation of your CoC'''. When an HRD rep visits your website to protest he gets blocked. When we approach WMF (in the past) they say they have no editorial control over this website. Having previously gotten these matters escalated all the way up to the Supreme Court of India (where WMF was severely rapped for its selfsame stand) on the 2024 Kolkata rape/murder victim naming issue, HRD is now left with limited options (incl. but not limited to enforcing its own CoC in place of WMF's). If complaints to Senior Administrators of this website go unheeded it only spirals the situation, especially since HRD/HRA is not your typical "rule of law abiding" aggrieved stranger coming here to complain. NB: When WMF pleaded "no censorship" to the Supreme Court of India, they were told categorically WMF would be blocked in India. Its a slippery slope. If legally ill informed Misplaced Pages editors generate content about a private Indian organisation that contravenes India's cyber, media and criminal laws , we should not be told that only US law and Misplaced Pages (English) policies like "no censorship" apply. ] (]) 07:09, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::], I've already advised you to go to ] if you want to get in touch with WMF. Additional comments here, trying to itimidate me into doing what you ask, will have no effect so I see reason to continue this conversation. I do not know anything about the Indian courts, I'm just an administrator, taking care of my daily tasks and my concern is the health of the project, not your organization. I advise you not to make any legal threats which would result in a swift block of your account. Since your interest seems to be into debating and not actually contributing to this project, I'll ask you politely to move on from my User talk page and find something more productive to do with your time. Good bye. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::::We have more than one email communication from WMF Legal (eg. from WMF erstwhile counsel Michelle Paulson -Date: Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:27 AM-, and/or jpgordon, and/or legal@wikimedia.org "On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation") asking us to reach out directly to Misplaced Pages (English) admins in such situation. Because you are an Admin who has posted multiple messages on the Administrators Notice Board thread we are concerned with and in accordance with the afore described WMF communications to us, we are reaching out to you, and you specifically, to get those 2 threads entirely redacted / revdelled IN GOOD FAITH as contrary to US Law in addition to Indian law, as well as WMF's CoC and ToU. We are puzzled why you feel intimidated. As an Administrator of this website and its policies, surely you are obliged to follow the policies of your website and those of your media hosts which we are approaching you to enforce with the administrative tools at your disposal which are not available to us. ] (]) 08:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Invitation for Your Insight and Guidance ==
	: ], I just decided to call my Sandbox page "Whiteboard" instead. I've seen some users with dozens of sub-pages with different kinds of names (one user calls their Sandbox "Litterbox" instead) so I'm surprised that this page has even gotten the attention of any other users besides myself. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 11:59, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
	::Hi Liz. All fixed up. See
	::* ]
	::* ]
	::Any problems, please let me know. Peter aka --] (]) 11:22, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello Liz,
	::: Thanks for your help, ]! Have a great day. Full moon tonight! ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 13:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
			I am Muhammad, and while you don’t know me, I’ve noticed and greatly admire your work on improving Misplaced Pages. I’m reaching out because I’ve recently been given a 72-hour block (that's now expired), but I’m still not entirely clear on the reason behind it.
	== Please comment on ] ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44242 --> ] (]) 15:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
			I saw your comment on my prior talk page , and it seems you may be familiar with my actions. I’m open to discussing the situation further in case there has been any misunderstanding or if I missed something. Any insight you have to help me understand the reasons behind the block would be truly appreciated.
	== Please comment on ] ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44387 --> ] (]) 17:15, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
			I’ve written a response here and would be grateful if you could take a moment to review it. I’m more than willing to engage in a constructive conversation to clarify things and if I had indeed done something wrong to get 72 hours, I will take responsibility for those actions. But it's hard to take responsibility when you don't even understand the error.
	== Thought you would enjoy this link quoting Morwen ==
	http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock/wikipedia-changed-its-entry-to-properly-reflect-chelsea-mann
			Thank you so much for your time and consideration.] (]) 23:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
	Morwen also blogged here: http://abigailbrady.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/chelsea-manning-on-pressing-button.html
			:Hello, ],
	--<font color="001E6E">]</font> <small>(''<font color="001E6E">]</font>'')</small> 04:43, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
			:If you are evading a block, please stop editing right now. Wait for your block to end and then we can talk. Block evasion can result in a much longer block for your original account, lasting weeks and months, not 72 hours. This is a short block and don't do anything to jeopardize your original account. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			::No, I had waited until the entire 72 hours is over before asking you on your talk. (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:BlockList&ip=49.181.58.245) There's no current block because it had expired almost one day ago. I know it's short so that's not a big deal. What's a big deal is not even understanding it. ] (]) 00:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::Well, I'm glad to hear that your original block is over. I have posted a response to you on the User talk page of your original account, the one that got blocked. I'm sure you won't be satisfied by my comments but it's the best advice I can offer you. I'm not saying that your block wasn't a "big deal", every block is a big deal to the person who has been blocked. But if you want to continue to edit here in harmony with the community, you need to move past this block and work on improving the articles and other productive work you could do. Think less of the past and more about the positive ways you can contribute from here on out. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			== The conversation with SumoAvocado ==
	:Thanks, <font color="001E6E">]</font>! I just finished reading it. I appreciate the alert! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="Purple">'''''L'''''iz</font> <sup>]</sup> 12:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 09:00, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:I know you are more than capable of handling this incident yourself, as you have been. Sometimes, though, the protector needs protection. I hope I have not overstepped the mark here. If I have, and if I have upset you in any manner over this, first please accept my apologies, and second please ask me to withdraw the ANI report. 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 09:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44438 --> ] (]) 16:15, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
			::I actually only came by to thank you for offering bludgeoning advice to the Gerard Gertoux editor. The SumoAvocado behaviour offended me greatly. 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 09:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::To be honest, ], I wasn't pleased that you brought this discussion to ANI because while I, in general, agree with removing vandals, I didn't think I need "protecting" from this particular conversation. And also I was wondering how far this editor was going to go with their demands. But I didn't object here, or at ANI, because I had ended the discussion here and I thought that this subject of threats against Misplaced Pages is bigger than me and this User talk page and my interactions with this editor. I was considering sharing this discussion on AN but that was just to inform other administrators about the revision deletion demands, not to take action against the editor. But now that NRP has identified the editor as a probable sock, if I had known that earlier, I would have blocked them myself. But I see you had good intentions when you took your action. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::@] I was in two minds over this. Please accept my apologies for the displeasure I have caused you. 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 21:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Oh, no, ], no apologies are necessary. I know that you do what you do for the benefit from the project and clearly this was an attempt to exert undue influence over our discussions and content. As a woman, the language of "protection" probably strikes me differently than if I was male or gender fluid.
			:::::But I also appreciate having editors watch my user talk page because, for some reason, I seem to have a lot of socks and bad actors reach out to me, maybe it's because I'm female, I don't know. Additionally, I do try to engage with some blocked editors to help them understand why they have been blocked and perhaps that is an unwise use of my time and I should rethink that activity. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::::You may not believe this, but I had not considered your gender, your username notwithstanding. I see you as a valued colleague, no more and no less. I consider Misplaced Pages editors to be equal in every respect with each other. I think I need to stop digging this hole now!
			::::::Juxtaposed with Trump I can now see why that wording would upset, though. It was an inappropriate word choice. 🇺🇦&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;🇺🇦 22:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
			: That's {{noping|Blaxstocatamazon}} or someone related. ] (]) 16:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Wikidata weekly summary #72 ==
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
			== Peer pressure ==
	]
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
			I know there is usually a last-minute rush but at the moment we don't even have enough candidates to fill the open spots. And although several former arbs are running, the committee needs people who aren't as jaded and prone to burnout. I think you could bring the perspective of a ''very'' hard-working admin who knows what it is like to be in the trenches to the committee, something that it may be a bit thin on right now. I'm also more or less positive you'd get in if you ran.
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* Discussions
			The process really isn't so bad, you answer a bunch of questions, maybe a few people comment on your discussion page, that's pretty much it, the rest is just waiting. I expect it will be considerably easier for you than it is going to be for me. ] ] 00:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** ]
			:Hello, ],
	** ] has been closed
			:I actually just posted my statement but had some glitches so if you could double-check it, that would be awesome. I noticed during the same half hour, that two other admins also posted their statements so maybe this is the beginning of the last minute rush. But thanks for the encouragement. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	* ]/]
			::Good luck, Liz! Though I'm sure JSS is right and you don't need much extra luck. There's lots of folks on standby ready to pick up the slack if you have to drop some of that hard work you do to handle ArbCom business instead. :) -- ] (]) 02:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	**
			:::], you know, besides repeating the horrendous experience that was my RFA, the other reason I was hesitating to file was because I greatly enjoy the work I do as an admin and it keeps me very, very busy. I'm reluctant to let that go as it provides me with little boosts of energy throughout the day. But, if I am elected, we'll talk more and maybe I can start delegating some of the projects that I spend time on to other competent administrators who might have some time on their hands (just/kidding) <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** Wikidata meets Incubator
	** ]
			:I look forward to supporting both of your candidacies @] @] (and full disclosure, a root vegetable of whom I'm quite fond). You are exactly what ArbComm needs to move this project forward in its next decade but also amid this world mess which will lead to more CTs and not less. Good luck! ] ] 02:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
			::Thanks, ], I appreciate your support, as always. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** ].
			:Great to see you run Liz! Best of luck with your candidacy. Cheers, ] (]) 03:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** Wikivoyage is still scheduled to get access to data on Wikidata (aka phase 2) on August 26.
			::And the same to you, ]. Good luck! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** Developers are working hard to also make the URL datatype available by August 26 but there are factors that are not in their hands so it might have to be delayed until the next deployment in 2 weeks. URL as a datatype will soon be available on test.wikidata.org. Please give it some thorough testing and report bugs.
			::ooh another one I'll be supporting. Didn't realize you were running @]. ] ] 13:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** ]
			:::Yeah, things are looking much better this morning. Best of luck. ] ] 16:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	* Did you know?
	**
			==Indefinite semiprotection of ANI==
	** Newest properties: separated from (P807), code Bien de Interés Cultural (P808), WPDA id (P809), academic minor (P811), academic major (P812), date retrieved (P813), IUCN protected areas category (P814), ITIS TSN (P815), decays to (P816), decay mode (P817)
			Hi, Liz. You have semiprotected ANI from editing ''indefinitely'', which is very unique and surely not desirable. Usually it gets protected for 6 or 12 hours or a few days at most. Did you perhaps misclick and mean to semi ''moving'' the page indefinitely, which is usual, and from editing for 3 days? ] &#124; ] 09:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC).
	* Development
			:Oh, never mind, I see you changed it as I was posting, with ECR protection for 3 hours. Mind you, I still think moving the page should be indefinitely limited to admins. Basically, nobody needs to move it. ] &#124; ] 09:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC).
	** Prepared deployment of phase 2 on Wikivoyage
			::That was a mistake, I meant to semi-protect it for 3 days but it sounds like even that would be too long. I'm not sure why the default duration of protection is "infinite". I didn't want to protect for only extended confirmed editors but this troll seemed to have an infinite number of accounts and reverting them was burning up our supply of editors. But it's just for 3 hours, hopefully, long enough for him to get bored and move on. But sorry for my mistake. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
	** Worked on ability to sort qualifiers and references inside a statement
			:::No problem, and I see you caught it yourself. The short ECR protection is novel but seems a good idea in this situation. (But, sorry to go on about it, what about the move protection? Move vandalism is quite popular, if the trolls get a chance with a major page.) ] &#124; ] 10:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC).
	** Started work on an api module to merge items
	** Worked on special page to query for items with one specific property and value
			== Books & Bytes – Issue 65 ==
	** Cleaned up code for handling recent change entries from Wikidata in the clients (Misplaced Pages/Wikivoyage)
	** Worked on generic script for populating sites table and better integration with WMF process for creating new wikis
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
	** Setup new git repo for WikibaseMobile skin and extension
			<div style="font-size: 1.5em; margin: 0 100px;">
	** Fixed SetClaim api module to properly mark bot edits in recent changes and advised pywikipedia maintainers about adding support for the module. SetClaim can be used to create claims with references in a single edit.
			]</div>
	** Reviewed code for Google Summer of Code students
			<div style="line-height: 1.2;">
	** Updated
			<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">'''The Misplaced Pages Library''': ''Books & Bytes''</span><br />
	* Open Tasks for You
			Issue 65, September – October 2024
	** Report a paper cut (see above).
	** ] for a property.
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>		</div>
			<div style="margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em;">
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 21:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
			* Hindu Tamil Thisai joins The Misplaced Pages Library
			* Frankfurt Book Fair 2024 report
			* Tech tip: Mass downloads
			<big>''']'''</big>
	</div>		</div>
	</div>		</div>
			<small>Sent by ] on behalf of The Misplaced Pages Library team --12:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</small>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0562 -->
			<!-- Message sent by User:Samwalton9 (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/search/?title=The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/Recipients&oldid=27730094 -->
			== Reminder to participate in Misplaced Pages research ==
	==Discussion at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC Reviewer permission==
	] You are invited to join the discussion at ]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} ] (]) 08:22, 24 August 2013 (UTC){{z48}}
			Hello,
	== By the way ==
			I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Misplaced Pages. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its ] and view its ].
	If you're interested in the evolution of the Vatican position on homosexuality you should definitely join the discussion/fray at ]! I've been mostly staying outside of the doctrinal bits other than to revert obvious factual inaccuracies, but you sound like you have more knowledge of the subject. –] (] &sdot; ]) 13:23, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Oh, that is a complicated mess, ]. I was more on top of things in the 1980s when I was living in San Francisco and all I know is that JPII later issued more compassionate statements and less about homosexuality as a "disorder". But I'll check in and look over the conversation. I'm just not up, right now, on the most recent official documents. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 13:27, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
			Take the survey ''''''.
	==Valerie Sutton==
	I posted the deleted text ]. If you want to check, all I've removed is an image which appears not to be copyright-free. I can't believe that there are TWO users (at least) with that irritating hummingbird!!!! <font face="chiller"><font color="red"><b>] - </b></font></font><font face="arial"><font color="green">]</font></font> 14:56, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for letting me know, ]. I didn't mean to pass the buck but I couldn't recall too many particulars of that article.
	: As for the hummingbird, maybe it's time to move that to my sandbox. Kind of MySpacey, I guess. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
			Kind Regards,
	== RfC ==
			]
	Hi Liz, I noticed you are signed up for the feedback request service. You may want to comment on this RfC ] and the GA nomination as well. ] (]) 16:39, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Oh, my, ], I'm not sure I want to step back into this dispute! I thought things had quieted down. I'll check in and look at the discussion but I'm not a biblical scholar so I'm not a master of ancient texts. Thank's for the head's up...I think. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	::This is not that same tired old dispute. This is a '''new''' dispute. Why stop at just one! :0D ] (]) 18:05, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: But still the same people arguing, ]? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:09, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Yeah, there is that little problem. You can get the monkey off your back, but the circus stays in town forever. ] (]) 18:22, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::: I don't see an "argument," I see from my end a reasonable question about the scope. Of course, I can see how some people would try to avoid dealing with that question, and how that might cause them to make it an "argument," rather than a reasonable discussion about what the article should cover.
	::::The question here seems to me to be about the content of the article more than anything else. There are at least two works which have been called "Gospel of the Hebrews," one being that source (or those sources) generally referred to as such by scholars today and at least one other called by that name by Jerome. Honestly, as they themselves never really indicated that they were referring to the same book, there is some question whether we should make that assumption either. Honestly, I don't know, but I would assume that if the ABD discusses them both (or all) in the same article first, and then describes the way that scholarship arrived at its current basic consensus, that there were two (at least) and that one seems to be similar (if not identical) to the Gospel of the Nazoreans, that being the one Jerome talked about, and, finally, coming to conclusions (admittedly not supported by any direct evidence) about what can be gathered about the remaining material, if it is all about the same source. The ABD says this is one of the most "vexing problems in the study of early Christian literature," so I think most people would agree with you that it is a thorny one, but it is also, I think, based on that, a very relevant matter. But, yeah, it is a thorny matter, and I can well imagine that others might not want to weigh in on something even academia isn't really sure about. ] (]) 18:19, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::::You are forgetting that PiCo worked hard to fix up this article, and part of that fix involved restricting the scope. Since then the article has been remarkably stable (until now). That was the point of pulling out all the Hebrew Gospel material: to put an end to the ceaseless edit-warring. The "vexing problems" were moved to the parent ] article where text-critical issues involving both the ] and the ] are considered together. ] (]) 18:25, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
			<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 00:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC) </bdi>
	::::: ], you make some valid points and this debate should really happen on ] not my Talk Page as I am far from an authority on scriptural texts. I've done some work with archival material but none of it involved ancient religious texts. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:29, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
			<!-- Message sent by User:UOzurumba (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/search/?title=UOzurumba_(WMF)/sandbox_Research_announcement_list_for_enwiki_Current_Admins_(reminders)&oldid=27744339 -->
			==Comment==
	== Please comment on ] ==
			Hi Liz! I hope it's ok to reach out with this suggestion, you know so much more about Misplaced Pages than I do but I'm wondering if I might be able to help a little with blocked editors, considering what you've said?
			I've been working on getting more experience with editing (specifically with the Typo Team) as you kindly suggested, along with some basic copy editing of random articles. I've come across editors who were otherwise decent, but became embroiled in a dispute to the point that they lost perspective & wouldn't drop the stick.
			They were angry because they cared about their work but let it get the best of them & just needed someone to acknowledge their feelings, so I continued on their Talk page to say if I could help. I'm glad to say that it definitely did and the stick was dropped - you can see the discussion link in the Barnstar on my Talk page if you want to see an example, or I can post a direct link for you?
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44597 --> ] (]) 17:15, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
			If you come across someone who you think might benefit from a similar positive message on their Talk, feel free to let me know and I'll be happy to do so! I realise how busy you are (and will be, I can see everyone's rooting for you for Arb!). Needless to say, I'm too inexperienced to discuss the reasons for a block, policies, other people's actions etc., so I absolutely will ''not'' discuss that. If things go awry I'll immediately stop and seek advice.
	== ] ==
			TLDR: If you come across someone who might need a positive post please let me know; similarly if you don't think this is a good idea then I completely understand, I just wanted to throw this out there to see if I can help 🙂 ] (]) 05:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I moved your comment to start a new discussion as it had nothing to do with the rather intense conversation that you placed this in the middle of. Please do not insert content that is not relevant to a discussion, especially in the middle of an ongoing conversation. I don't think you have enough editing experience to be advising other editors (maybe when you are extended confirmed) but I encourage your efforts to deescalate situations. We always need more peacemakers as long as they aren't telling other, more experienced editors what to do. That will not be appreciated. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Bojan Ilievski (deleted page) ==
	This article, and the related deletion discussion, might be in your field, and I think it would probably welcome additional outsider input. ] (]) 19:52, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks, ]. That is an extremely hard statistic to determine unless you are limiting your study to a well-defined geographic region where there is a history of data collection on religion (which is not common). Many people rely on churches estimates of membership which are variable and unreliable data. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 20:44, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	:: I don't think it is supposed to be about the factual statistic, but the various claims made by, oh, purty much everybody, it looks like, to qualify as the fastest growing group. And, yeah, I've seen quite a few such claims myself. Also, while I'm bugging you here, I was wondering what you might think about ]. There is a separate and closely related concept, ], and, considering the apparent inactivity of that project, whether it might be best merged into the Religion WikiProject. I would support such a merge myself, but I honestly don't know whether we should use the existing name, or maybe change it to a more inclusive title, which wouldn't seem to rule out religious philosophy relating to a goddess, which is, I think, what thealogy is supposed to be. ] (]) 20:52, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	::: Oh, ], I would leave topics regarding Feminist Spirituality alone (see ]). They very clearly set out a separate space from mainstream patriarchal religions and trying to subsume them under a Theology banner would not respect that and would seem ]. It doesn't matter if not one has worked on it recently. Feel free to place a template on it that it needs improvement or post a question suggesting it on the Talk Page but Categories are political (see ]). I just think there are plenty projects you could work on that wouldn't stir up a hornet's nest!
	::: Personally, I'm more interested in dull things like determining membership and conflict in leadership structures in religious organization (religion, modern history and sociology). While I identify as a feminist, feminist spirituality isn't my thing. But I respect how important it is to some women and as long as the articles have proper references, I would let the people who care, define their own terms rather than imposing a conformity on to them. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:13, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
	:::: I only mentioned it because you said you were involved in NRMs, and to my eyes, as someone who doesn't know a lot of NRM topics that well, it looked like it might be basically related to the scope of the inactive Theology project, maybe enough to perhaps rename that project if it were "merged" into the parent Religion project, if it were in the scope, for "neutrality" purposes. Also, FWIW, having seen you want to eventually become an admin, I think weighing in on discussions like you have been in some fields will really help a lot, but that there are people who seem to indicate that they want more people involved in content development as admins. Also, I think it is great that we have something interested in the history and organization of groups, which don't get that much attention in general around here. If you think that maybe I could help in maybe getting some sources you might want on some related topic, just let me know. ] (]) 16:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hello,
	== ''The Signpost'': 21 August 2013 ==
			Two years ago I created a page for Bojan Ilievski after his debut for the Macedonia National Team. You deleted it, saying he is irrelevant and it was only one friendly game. He is now summoned again by the national team for the upcoming UEFA National League fixtures. Is there a possibility to bring back his page?
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-08-28}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 33-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 05:07, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0604 -->
	=="...it's crucial to listen to what they have to say about their experience on WP..."==
	FYI. ] may be interesting to you. ```]<small>]</small> 05:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks, ```], I'll check it out! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 09:28, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
			Greetings. ] (]) 10:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:Hello,
			:I assume you are talking about the article that was deleted through ]? First, I didn't say anything about the quality of the article or the notability of the subject, I just assessed the consensus arising out of the discussion and closed it. I have no opinion on the subject.
			:Secondly, I'm willing to restore this article to Draft space or User space but you MUST submit the draft to ] for review. If you just move it back to main space, it will be tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G4 which is for articles deleted through AFD that have been recreated. It will then be much, much more difficult to restore it a second time. Are you willing to do this? If not, then it is better to write a new article in Draft space from scratch. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Restoration of Ivy Wolk ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44670 --> ] (]) 16:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi {{u|Liz}}. Still wondering if you could possibly restore my userspace draft for Ivy Wolk so that I could get a look at it and possibly move some things to the page that exists there now. Thanks! ] 18:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Details on my talk ==
			:Hello, ],
	Second set of details on my talk. ] ] 00:48, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
			:First, sorry that I didn't follow up your original request that is somewhere in the middle of this User talk page. I typically just look at the bottom of this page and can miss updates to older discussions.
			:Secondly, as you mention, there is an article, ], in main space that was moved from Draft space. Is there yet another version of this article that was deleted? Please provide me with a link to the page of the deleted article so I can look into the circumstances of its deletion. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Totally fine! The draft I'm talking about was located at ]. I moved it to mainspace before it got deleted so I'm not sure if the page's history will still be intact, but let me know if it is. ] 19:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::Sorry for the delay, I've been busy with other work on the project. Here's what I can see, there is only one deleted edit at ] so there is no content on that page. However, there was content that you made at ] which had gotten deleted when the article was tagged for speedy deletion CSD A7, G4. I have restored your edits now that this article has gone through a deletion review. I did not restore deleted content that was removed through an AFD discussion deletion and I don't think I could, but that is not what you are asking for. However, even though this content has been returned to the page history, do not revert this article back to your original edits. The edits remain there as a source of content you could draw from to add to the new version of this article but do not just restore this article back to a version of the one you created. That would erase all of the work that has been done since this new version was created. Make sense? Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Recent revert ==
	: Thanks, ]! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 00:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz,
	== New Teahouse message ==
			There has been major disruption in the article and the version you restored for maintaining the Afd tag is about a different politician. It was earlier about a different person who is serving as a minister in Government of Bihar. But, now the version you restored is about a poltician, who is not notable. ] (]) 16:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
			*See, this person ], about whom the article was earlier is notable, but someone changed it to present version, and this person with same name is not notable.] (]) 16:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
	Yo, Liz, I've answered your latest Teahouse question. (I kinda doubt you need talkbacks, but figured I'd give you a non-template one, just in case.) :) ] (WK to move) ]] 15:46, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
			::Hello, ],
			::The AFD might have the same outcome that you were trying to achieve with this article. It's just that once an AFD has been opened, it can't be bypassed. Tags should not be removed or the article redirected, moved to Draft space or blanked until the AFD is closed. Your best bet is to go to the AFD discussion, if you haven't already, and make your case there. If it is persuasive, you'll probably achieve the results you want. But the decision has to come out of the AFD discussion consensus. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Advanced rights ==
	: Much appreciated, ]! ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:05, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz,
	== Whisperback ==
			I no longer need any of my advanced rights. Can you please remove them? ] (]) 02:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	{{wb|Miss Bono}} <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 17:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
			:{{tps}} I removed the rights for you {{u|BilledMammal}}. ] ] 07:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Curious ==
			::Thank you, ]. I'm not sure what brought this on, ] but I hope you are okay. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	Hi, Liz ... I've been seeing you around everywhere, and I'm just stopping by to let you know that the story being told about Raul/FAC on Pumpkinsky's page is ... one person's version at the most charitable. If you are interested in following some facts, you might start here, where you will find that Pumpkinsky (whose former identity was not revealed until well into the four RFCs) had joined with a very small handful of other now-banned or indef-blocked socks and users who were bearing grudges and attempting to force a change in leadership at FAC ... a proposed change that was rejected in four different RFCs, including the largest one, here:
			:::I didn't action this as closer of the ANI but echo @]'s concerns. Don't hesitate to be in touch @] ] ] 19:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	* ]
			==About==
	Once those four RFCs failed to yield the results that small group wanted, the "battleground" (literally) moved over to ], and they eventually succeeded in chasing off Raul, before several of them were banned or uncovered as socks, which is why your queries likely went unanswered. Regards, ] (]) 00:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			I don't understand why Primefac blocked Saqib by --] (]) 09:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
			:{{tps}}
	::"I've been seeing you around everywhere..."
			:ArbComm blocks such as this will not be discussed in public @]
	: You don't say this like it's a good thing, ]!
			:Given your close call at SPI, I'd suggest a focus on articles. ] ] 23:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	: I just ran across Raul's name on several pages, he was still being listed as the current editor/director in charge but when I went to his page, it showed he hadn't been active since February 2013. So, I was curious and when his name came up in comments, I inquired what the story was. But I'm not taking sides and realize I might be hearing one side of the story. I just recently went from being an uninvolved, casual editor to one who wants to understand how things like the ARBCOM and AN/I works and is trying to find some aspect of Misplaced Pages (AfD, CfD, AfC, etc.) where I can put my effort.
			::Hello, ],
	: But I do appreciate you taking the time to come to my Talk Page and tell me your understanding of what occurred. I'm still figuring things out and so any information is good to know. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:54, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			::I was surprised, too, so I inquired about the block at Primefac's User talk page even though I expected the reply that I did receive. But ] is correct, ArbCom blocks are not discussed publicly so we'll just have to accept what is as reality. But know, if Saqib wants to be unblocked, they can appeal their block, also, to ArbCom for review. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
	:: <blockquote> You don't say this like it's a good thing, ... </blockquote> I'm not sure how I left that impression, but not at all! Regards, ] (]) 18:10, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			:::{{ygm}} no rush and no answer needed. ] ] 01:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			== ANI closure ==
	::: Well, I didn't mean to read anything into it, ]. I have been self-conscious about weighing in on different forums when I was a pretty uninvolved, isolated editor. In one embarrassing incident, I explained to another user how to file a RfD when it turns out they were very experienced. So, I'm kind of bumbling my way through the deeper levels of Misplaced Pages (or, as I call it, "Misplaced Pages: Editing Beyond Typos"). <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			Re , I think it was clear enough there wasn't going to be any more bickering, so I wonder about your comment. I'll take minor offense to the half of it directed at me. No big deal. The main point there was that GoodDay was in the wrong from the start of that issue, and never said as much (nor did anyone else). Cheers, &#8213;]&nbsp;] 12:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	:::: With a bazillion edits, I never quite made it to the "beyond typos" part! ] (]) 18:18, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			Mandruss & I were both in the wrong, IMHO. That being said, I thank you for the close. ] (]) 16:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
	::::: I'm still basically the same. I've seen some editors lecturing people that they should pick an area of Misplaced Pages and concentrate on improving it. I might be spreading myself too thin but I haven't felt affinity to any particular WikiProject. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:48, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
	::::: P.S. By the way, I stumbled into ] and it's more than I can get through! Looks like this was a hot topic earlier this year. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:56, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ], I apologize if you found the word "bickering" as implying that you didn't have a valid reason for opening a complaint. That's not what I meant. By bickering, what I typically mean is a discussion that goes back and forth between two editors who disagree, that is not moving towards a resolution. I closed the discussion because I've found is that, often, on ANI, the longer a complaint stays open, the more frequently it receives unhelpful comments from the peanut gallery that watches noticeboards. I also see that the longer a complaint is open, the more likely it is that sanctions will be imposed on one or both of the editors involved and I did see that as an appropriate outcome to this dispute. You outlined your disagreement, there was a response, GoodDay withdrew from participating on that article which seemed like it resolved the problems you cited. If it instead continues on a different article, you are welcome to open a new complaint and cite this one for reference.
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:I see my job as an administrator on ANI as trying to resolve and deescalate disputes and so this was my mindset when I closed this discussion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were referring to bickering between me and GoodDay, which had clearly ended some time before your closure. {{tq|withdrew from participating on that article which seemed like it resolved the problems you cited}} No, the problem was resolved (far too late) by GoodDay's self-revert. Their participation at the article was never an issue&mdash;as I said in the ANI thread. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 00:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Signature controversy ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44813 --> ] (]) 17:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
			You have sparked a major scolding operation on my User Talk Page on a irrelevant thread which was not supposed to be some sort of discussion so I moved it to a new section ] (]) (]) 02:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
	== WikiCup 2013 August newsletter ==
			:Hello, ],
			:Except that you invented a new header that I didn't add. I don't think of this as a "controversy", other editors are just sharing their opinions. Look at any long-term editor's User talk page and you'll see a mixture of compliments and complaints. And, believe me, this is not a "scolding" and I definitely didn't start anything. You moved my comment down from the middle of the page, where no one would have noticed it, to its place at the bottom of the page, where editors are trained to look for new messages.
			:You seem to be ignoring the advice that experienced editors are offering you which is to focus more on improving articles and less on the "discussion" aspects of Misplaced Pages. We are an encyclopedia, not a forum or social media channel. Please focus less on socializing and more on article improvement. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Request undeleting ] ==
	This year's final is upon us. Our final eight, in order of last round's score, are:
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Hawkeye7}}, a WikiCup newcomer who has contributed on topics of military history and physics, including a number of high-importance topics. Good articles have made up the bulk of his points, but he has also scored a great deal of bonus points. He has the second highest score overall so far, with more than 3000 points accumulated.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Casliber}}, another WikiCup veteran who reached the finals in 2012, 2011 and 2010. He writes on a variety of topics including botany, mycology and astronomy, and has claimed the highest or joint highest number of featured articles every round so far this year. He has the third highest score overall, with just under 3000 points accumulated.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Cwmhiraeth}}, 2012 WikiCup champion, who writes mostly on ]. She has also contributed to high-importance topics, seeing huge numbers of bonus points for high-importance featured and good articles. Previous rounds have seen her scoring the most bonus points, with scoring spread across did you knows, good articles and featured articles.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Sasata}}, a WikiCup veteran who finished in second place in 2012, and competed as early as 2009. He writes articles on biology, especially ], and has scored highly for a number of collaborations at featured article candidates.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Sturmvogel_66}}, the winner of the 2010 competition. His contributions mostly concern ], and he has scored a very large number of points for good articles and good article reviews in every round. He is the highest scorer overall this year, with over 3500 points in total.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Ealdgyth}}, who is competing in the WikiCup for the second time, though this will be her first time in the final. A regular at FAC, she is mostly interested in British medieval history, and has scored very highly for some top-importance featured articles on the topic.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Miyagawa}}, a finalist in 2012 and 2011. He writes on a broad variety of topics, with many of this year's points coming from good articles about '']''. Good articles make up the bulk of his points, and he had the most good articles back in round 2; he was also the highest scorer for DYK in rounds 1 and 2.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Adam Cuerden}} has previously been involved with the WikiCup, but hasn't participated for a number of years. He scores mostly from ] work leading to featured picture credits, but has also done some article writing and reviewing.
			I am requesting restoration of this article deleted in ], I believe circumstances have changed, and I plan to rewrite the article. ] (]) 05:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
	We say goodbye to eight great participants who did not qualify for the final: {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Piotrus}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Figureskatingfan}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|ThaddeusB}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Dana boomer}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Status}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Ed!}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|12george1}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Calvin999}}. Having made it to this stage is still an excellent achievement, and you can leave with your heads held high. We hope to see you all again next year. ''']''' for the 2014 WikiCup, which will begin on 1 January. All Wikipedians, whatever their interest or level of experience, are warmly invited to participate in next year's competition.
			:Hello, ],
			:I can not restore an article that was deleted through the AFD deletion discussion process. Your best bet is to start a new article in Draft space. If you think my closure was an incorrect reading of the consensus of participants, you can make an appeal at ]. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:09, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Hello @],
			::It is noted, thank you.
			::Happy editing! ] (]) 06:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
			== 15.ai Controversy ==
	This last month has seen some incredible contributions; for instance, Cwmhiraeth's ] and Ealdgyth's ]—two highly important, highly viewed pages—made it to featured article status. It would be all too easy to focus solely on these stunning achievements at the expense of those participants working in lower-scoring areas, when in fact all WikiCup participants are doing excellent work. A mention of everything done is impossible, but here are a few: Last round saw the completion of several good topics (on the ], ] and ] Atlantic hurricane seasons) to which 12george1 had contributed. Calvin999 saw ], on which he has been working for several years, through to featured article status on its tenth try. Figureskatingfan continued towards her goal of a broad featured/good topic on ], with two featured and four good articles. ThaddeusB contributed significantly to over 20 articles which appeared on the main page's "in the news" section. Adam Cuerden continued to restore a large number of historical images, resulting in over a dozen FP credits this round alone. The WikiCup is not just about top-importance featured articles, and the work of all of these users is worthy of commendation.
			Ugh. It was unpleasant on ], but I had no idea, and you probably no idea, just how ugly it would get on ] so quickly.
	Finally, the usual notices: If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on ]. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on ], and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from ].</small> ] (] • ]) and ] (] • ]) 05:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 607 -->
			I will be back in about three hours, and will post something, but I have no idea what will happen in the meantime. ] (]) 20:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:Hello, ],
			:Well, thank you for sharing your DRN experience on the ANI complaint. I've been reading over the pages related to this subject and it seems like folks are basically in agreement now. It helps when you remove sockpuppets from the conversation. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Once in a while an obvious offense such as sockpuppetry makes it easier to deal with a messy situation. ] (]) 02:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Best Wishes ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44862 --> ] (]) 16:15, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz, I noticed that you are running for Arbcom elections. I want to wish you good luck for it. ] (]) 10:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Thank you, I'll accept your good wishes! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 18 November 2024 ==
	== Talk page archiving ==
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-11-18}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 16--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 23:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	Just noticed the red link in the archive template at the top of this page. You might want to check that. ] (]) 16:19, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
			<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1258243105 -->
			== ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message ==
	: Thanks, ]. I am not sure at all if I have the archive code correct. I just copied it from someone else's Talk Page. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 19:26, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
			<div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; ">
	== Wikidata weekly summary #73 ==
			<div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">]</div>
			<div class="ivmbox-text">
			Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
			The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
			If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small>
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
	]
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* Discussions
	** ]
	** ]
	* ]/]
	** (September 6-8, 2013)
	** Recent office hour logs
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
	** Abraham, Denny and Lydia sat down for an evening trying to
	** ] Wikivoyage now has access to the wikidata dataset and various other bugs have also been fixed (including the copyright warning)!
	* Did you know?
	** Newest properties: interchange station (P833), public holiday (P832), parent club (P831), Encyclopedia of Life (P830), OEIS ID (P829), possible causes (P828), BBC programme identifier (P827), tonality (P826), dedicated to (P825), Meteoritical Bulletin Database ID (P824)
	** Newest task forces: ]
	* Development
	** Work on allowing API module editentities to edit claims
	** Work on entity / item redirects
	** Work on support for moving qualifiers in API and Frontend
	** Adding coordinates to diff display and improving diff display code
	** Allowing site groups for language links on clients to be configurable (needed for commons)
	** , we are now working on 0.5!
	** Show snaktype in summary for novalue and somevalue snaks
	** Further work on merge module for the API
	** Wrote missing tests for various jQuery widgets
	** Work on value formatters
	** Continue on moving tests to cucumber
	** Bug fixes for coordinates following the latest deployment
	* Open Tasks for You
	** Report a paper cut (see above).
	** ] for a property.
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>		</div>
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 13:10, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
	</div>		</div>
			<!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Coordination/MM/04&oldid=1258243549 -->
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0566 -->
	== ''The Signpost'': 28 August 2013 ==		== Just as a technical matter ... ==
			{{tq|It's not like there is a big red button that an admin or arbitrator can push to cause a blackout to happen.}} Actually, any admin with the interface-administrator bit could do this, in various ways, depending exactly on what was meant by "blackout", like what level of blacking out the community intended. If the idea were extreme, to literally make the content unavailable except to technical experts, then changing the CSS of most of the important divs and other elements to <code>display: none;</code> would do the trick. If it were to visually hide the content at first but still make it accessible with a little effort (and have no effect on users of screen readers), a common means, used for spoilers and such at various websites, is to make the text the same color as the background so that it has to be selected with the mouse (causing a highlight color) before it can be read. A third approach is simply visible effect; the original web blackouts (which I helped originate back in the '90s) did not render the page unreadable at all, but simply changed content and most other site elements to black with light-colored text on top, so it was stark and a major change (well, except maybe for some goth scene and horror film and death-metal music sites, heh). The usual approach is then to provide a message spelling out why things have gone black, to raise awareness about whatever the issue is.
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-08-28}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 34-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 12:27, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0609 -->
			I argued in the RfC why this was a poor idea for something like this in particular (complicated legal questions few would understand, yet an activism method designed to generate an immediate "no!" reaction, with a target, which in this case would basically be a WMF hand attacking to cut off WMF's own nose to spite its face). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 12:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:Hello, ],
			:I appreciate the technical explanation. It is disconcerting to me that one admin, with a certain degree of privileges, could cause a blackout to happen. This is like blanking the main page, there should be safeguards in place. I don't think this is how things should work, that one person could unilaterally make this happen. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Well, they could do it and then get immediately desysopped for vandalism or something akin to it (mega-POINT?). Ultimately, for any "big deal" there will be some gatekeepers whom we have to trust. Someone somewhere has to be able to edit the "interface" pages including our CSS specifications, just as a technical matter. I suppose that the "pending changes" system or something like it could be bent to putting any such change on hold until another interface-admin approved it, but I'm not sure how much that would impede interface-admins' normal workflow. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 05:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			== cand q ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 44970 --> ] (]) 17:15, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
			Thank you for standing for arbitrator. I am far away from it all (travel, mourning), not in the mood, so just an informal question you can answer or ignore:
	== Please comment on ] ==
			* ''']''' chose ]er by five composers whose music was banned by the Nazis—], ], ], ] and ]—for a recital at the ].
			What does this 2024 DYK tell you about infoboxes for classical composers in 2024? -- ] (]) 16:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 45118 --> ] (]) 16:15, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Oh, Gerda! You are one of my favorite editors and are such a positive presence on the project. But I really do not have strong opinions on infoboxes and I don't really know what your take is on that long-ago arbitration case. Sometimes, infoboxes can provide a useful summary of information for biographical or historical articles and sometimes, they are completely unnecessary. ARBCOM doesn't rule on content decisions or MOS issues but on disruption caused by editors so I just hope that if there are still disputes about infoboxes, they can be resolved at the appropriate noticeboard or policy talk page and not erupt into a dispute that finds its way to an arbitration case request.
			:I'm sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer but I really am neutral on infoboxes and would support whatever decision a consensus of editors has come to on an article talk page. But I support content creators all the way! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thank you, but sorry, I don't think you got the question. There was an arbcase in 2013, but the "contentious topic" came in a later one. Do we still need it? Look at discussions on the talk of 5 composers and tell me. --] (]) 11:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			{{User QAIbox
			| image = Ehrenbach, snow on grass melting.jpg
			| image_upright = 1.3
			| bold = ] · ] · ]
			}}
			:: November was rich in sadness and happiness for me, expressed in ]. Regarding my question, I found one so far who looked into the matter and didn't stay at the surface, ]. There are two composers on the Main page today, ] and ]. I find the response of my friend ] to a question on Copland's article talk promising. What do you think? --] (]) 08:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: ] comes from a DYK about a concert that fascinated me, and you can listen! For my taste, the hook has too little music - I miss the unusual scoring and the specific dedication - but it comes instead with a name good for viewcount. I'd still like to know what you think about the Copland posts. --] (]) 16:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: On the Main page today ] on his birthday. Listening to Beethoven's ] from the ]. We ] today. --] (]) 20:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: Listen today to the (new) ]. - Congratulations to being elected! Could you look at ] and tell me if you miss something in his infobox? --] (]) 10:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: Listen today to ]'s 3rd cello sonata, on his birthday - it was a hook in the ] when his 250th birthday was remembered. I picked a recording with ], because he was on my ] this year, and I was in Brazil (see places), and I love his playing. - I can report happily that the Barber situation was resolved. --] (]) 16:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: I come to fix the cellist's name, with ] and new pics - look for red birds --] (]) 19:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ANI notice ==
	== Interview request: Your interactions with new editors ==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.&nbsp;The thread is ]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> ]] 08:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	I'm contacting you about a study that I'm running with ] exploring newcomer mentorship activities in Misplaced Pages. I'd like to ask you a few questions about your interactions with newcomers and to explore how a tool like ] might make your work easier. The interview and demo session will take 30 minutes to an hour depending on how much time we spend discussing things. If you're interested, let me know. If not, disregard this message and I won't bother you again.
	* Study overview: ]
	* Consent form: ]
	Thanks for your consideration. --<span style="display:inline-block;padding:0 .25em;border:1px solid #999;box-shadow:.1em .1em .1em rgba(0,0,0,.5);border-radius:3px;">]</span> (] &bull; ]) 14:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
	== Comments ==		== You've got mail ==
			{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=<span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">''']''' <small>]</small></span> 09:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)}}
	First, I thought you might be interested in taking part at the RfC at ]. Also, if you have anything you wish to contribute to ], feel free to do so. ] (]) 21:16, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
			:@] I emailed you hours ago explaining the situation, and have just had to go to Oversight ''again'' to request suppression of the ANI thread where you and @] disclosed the supressed username. Utterly stupid behaviour. <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">''']''' <small>]</small></span> 13:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	== ''The Signpost'': 04 September 2013 ==
			== Request for retrieval of a deleted article: ] ==
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-09-04}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 35-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 20:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0613 -->
			Hi Liz,
	== Wikidata weekly summary #74 ==
			I published an article about an academic journal, Functional Diamond, almost a year ago, which you deleted in Jan this year for the reason that the journal is not notable enough. After a year's progress, now the journal has been indexed in ESCI. So, I think it has reached the requirements and hope you could restore the article. Thank you very much :)
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
	]
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* Discussions
	**
	** ]
	**
	** ]
	** ]
	* ]/]
	** State of the Map
	** Dbpedia-Wikidata workshop
	**
	**
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
	**
	**
	* Did you know?
	** Newest properties: GSS code (2011) (P836), BioLib ID (P838), IMSLP ID (P839), narrative set in (P840), Paleobiology Database Identifier (P842), SIRUTA code (P843), UBIGEO code (P844). A set of properties to build calenders: public holiday (P832), day in year for periodic occurrence (P837) and feast day (P841). A proposal for "reoccurring date in machine readable format" is still under review.
	* Development
	** mlazowik has put in more work to getting support for batches (featured article and so on) to Wikidata
	** Jeroen gave a
	** More work on the URL datatype to make it ready for deployment
	** Continuous work on cucumber & moving browser tests to saucelabs/cloudbees
	** Simple query special page
	** DataValues reorganization
	* Open Tasks for You
	** ] for a property.
	** Build a bot for one of the ].
	** ].
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 22:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0574 -->
			Randypanda90 ] (]) 10:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (idea lab)#A proposed tool for reducing backlogs==
			:Hello, ],
	] You are invited to join the discussion at ]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} ] (]) 01:30, 8 September 2013 (UTC){{z48}}
			:Can you provide me with a link to the deleted article? Then I can look into the circumstances of the deletion which will impact how or if I can help you. Just write <nowiki>]</nowiki>. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Hi Liz,
			::Sure, I added a link to the topic title. Hope that could help. Thank you so much for your help! ] (]) 02:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::{{done}} ] was deleted as a ] which can be restored upon editor request so I have done so. However, I know the editor who tagged this article for proposed deletion and they are likely to start an ] deletion discussion on this article in the near future. I recommend editing it in order to improve the article and address any problems stated in the PROD tag which you can see in the page history. Good luck! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Parent categories ==		== APH ==
	A number of your recent edits have added parent categories to articles. As a general rule, we avoid doing this. For example: Once ] is in ], he should not be added to ] or ] as both of those categories are subcategories (or "daughter" categories) of ]. Similarly, we would not add him to :], ], ], ], etc. Please see ] for another explanation of the same issue. Thanks. - ] (]) 15:48, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	::tp stalker here - what SummerPhD said is correct if the category in question is diffusing. if it's non-diffusing, then you *do* need to add to the parent category, or, a sibling (which is the same thing as adding to the parent, then immediately diffusing). Read ] for guidelines on such categories. The actor categories are a bit special as they seem to be fully diffused on gender (but should not be diffused on race - the race cats should be non-diffusing)). Once you're done with your PhD in set theory you might understand how this works - it's rather complex... :( --] (]) 17:43, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::I'll try to digest this all, ] and ] but there are a lot of inconsistencies with categories.
			Misplaced Pages ] (]) 15:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	:::For example, take Denzel Washington...he could be categorized (this is ONLY considering his acting activity and not including award categories):
			:Hello, ],
	{{Columns-start|num=3}}
			:I'm going to need more context here. APH? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	:::* American stage actor
	:::* American film actor
	:::* America television actor
	:::* American voice actor
	:::* American actor
	:::* African-American stage actor
	:::* African-American film actor
	:::* African-American television actor
	:::* African-American voice actor
	:::* African-American actor
	{{Column}}
	:::* American male stage actor
	:::* American male film actor
	:::* America male television actor
	:::* American male voice actor
	:::* American male actor
	:::* African-American male stage actor
	:::* African-American male film actor
	:::* African-American male television actor
	:::* African-American male voice actor
	:::* African-American male actor
	{{Column}}
	:::* 20th-century actor
	:::* 20th-century male actor
	:::* 21st-century actor
	:::* 21st-century male actor
	:::* Actors from New York
	:::* Male actors from New York
	:::* Actors from Los Angeles, California
	:::* Male actors from Los Angeles, California
	{{Columns-end}}
			== Quick note ==
	:::And this is assuming that he doesn't have additional ethnicity to consider and, again, does not include all of the acting award categories that could be applied. So, which ones do you select? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:06, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::Categories are not like resumes - they aren't intended to capture everything you did, they are intended to capture things which are DEFINING. I'd thus say that Denzel is not a television actor, that's not defining for him, nor a stage actor. I'd put him in the following, based on your list above:
	:::* American male film actor
	:::* African-American male film actor
	:::* 20th-century male actor
	:::* 21st-century male actor
	:::* Male actors from New York
	:::* Male actors from Los Angeles, California
	::::Not - I think we should get rid of the "ethnicity+ gender" categories in the acting section - I don't see a point for it really - I'd much rather use category intersects to deal with this. But, as always, not my decision.--] (]) 18:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz
	::::: Well, this all started this morning because I noticed that there was ] and although there is a ] most young male actors were in ] which should be the parent category for both gender categories. So, I was switching the last two.
			Just a quick note to say I hope you're ok after those inappropriate and disrespectful comments at ANI. I want to put on the record that I and many others appreciate your work here, particularly in AfD, PRODs and categorisation. Explicit also does important work which is why it was pretty disappointing to see that whole mess at ANI. ] (]) 18:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Well, actually, I'm just getting up and I haven't looked at ANI since the complaint was posted so I haven't seen anything new that was added to it. But this has been simmering a while, at ], several times they have called for me to resign and they were so vitriolic on my User talk page years ago, that I asked them to stop posting here except for required messages. After 11 years, they are the only person I've asked to stop posting here and that includes trolls! But, my mistake, I haven't been collecting diffs over the years so depending on what they say, it could take a while for me to defend myself. I'll head over there in a few minutes. Thanks though for your support. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
			== a social work book collection ==
			i recently found a website started by a social worker academic which is a database of open source (freely available) social work textbooks on every course a social worker would need to take from entry all the way to an advanced practice degree. will be useful for building Misplaced Pages articles. also please spread the word if any social workers you know would benefit. URL: https://opensocialwork.org/textbooks/ ] (]) 12:53, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
	::::: Now, some of these child actors have transitioned to adult roles and they frequently had ] and ] (no gender) so I changed their categories to show gender since all of these acting categories have an "Actresses" component. I don't think there's controversy that if the category has a female component, then it should have a male component (although some don't bifurcate and use the same category for both men and women).
			== G13 reports ==
	::::: But I'm not sure about race and ethnicity. Should an actor be known as an African-American male actor or just an American male actor? It's even more complicated with ethnicity. Suppose an actress is Puerto Rican...then they are not only a "Puerto Rican actress" but an "American actress" (since Puerto Rico is part of the U.S.) but there is also an "American actress from Puerto Rico" and an "Actress with Puerto Rican descent". And that is just considering ethnic descent, not nationality which is another set of categories. And of course, also "Hispanic and Latin American actresses" and then the sub-categories for whatever medium they perform in. It is Categoripalooza.
			Hi, I have created a G13 report at ]. It filters out all bot edits, including those by {{u|CommonsDelinker}} bot, and identifies drafts that haven't been edited by a human editor in six months. My bot updates it every hour. Please feel free to use it if you find it useful. – ] <small>(])</small> 09:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
	::::: Personally, I think that film/stage/voice/TV distinctions should be done away with. The way it is (because mostly fans write profile), if an actor has ''ever'' done a play, they are a "Stage actor". Likewise, there are a lot of rappers who had a cameo in a movie and are categorized "Film actor". At this point, so many film actors have moved to doing TV shows (and vice versa) that you end up with far too many categories.
			:Thanks ]. We generally make useful of the lists created by SDZeroBot but it always helps to have multiple sources of information plus you list the drafts last edited by a bot which is invaluable. Thank you for your work and for letting me know about it. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/1993 in Croatian television ==
	::::: At this point, you probably are thinking, "Why don't you pose these questions at the Categorization Talk Page?" Well, it's because you two will respond and when I had a pretty important question about gender orientation categorization, I didn't get much of a response (I think one reply, a month later) and I posted the question at ]! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::Generally, ethnicity categories are non-diffusing. Meaning, if you're african-American X, you should also be "American X". Gender categories are ALSO non-diffusing, unless they aren't - such as the case with actors. So it's bit confusing. Puerto Rican is a bit of an odd/special case, there are different interpretations of how to categorize puerto rican people, I generally just stay away as it's not worth the hassle. I think there could be an argument to get rid of film/stage/voice/TV - however it is clear there are some people who really are most known for one thing (e.g. stage acting, film acting, TV acting, etc). --] (]) 02:07, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::: Okay, let me get this straight, ], since I've reread ]'s comment several times and I still don't understand her point (and I've also read ] but found it unclear).
	::::::::: Hypothetical case: If Denzel Washington is in "African-American male actors" then he should also be in "American male actors". But, if there didn't already exist a category for "African-American actresses" and "American actresses", then he'd simply be listed as "African-American actors" and "American actors". But since the category of "Actors" already has been bifurcated by gender, these division is still observed.
	::::::::: The ethnicity categories are confusing because it can mean, a) the country one was born in, b) the country one is a citizen of, c) the country where one works and d) the ethnic heritage of ones family ("descent"). Allowing from a mixed ethnic background from multiple relatives, this can quickly lead to overcategorization. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 02:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::If Denzel Washington is in "African-American male actors" then he should also be in "American male actors". - correct. If we take a different case, say "Heads of state", where there isn't a male category, then he'd be in "African-American heads of State" and "American heads of state", and a black woman would be in "African-American heads of state, American heads of state, and American women heads of state". The ethnicity categories are again, generally based on wp:defining - so if a source says "X is a french writer" (even if X was born in the US to french parents and then moved to france later), then we classify them as a french writer, and perhaps as an american one as well. Rather than tearing your hair out over this, come help me get category intersection working instead which will make this all MUCH simpler.--] (]) 02:24, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::: Well, this was my understanding, too, when I was sorting through categories this morning but it prompted the first note in this discussion so I'm still trying to figure out what SummerPhD's complaint is and how that differed from what I was doing.
	::::::::::::"come help me get category intersection working instead which will make this all MUCH simpler"
	::::::::::: Point me in the right direction! I've tried suggesting changes at CfD and found a) only 1-4 people comment on my listings, b) the final decision (keep, delete, rename, merge) doesn't always reflect the opinions of the 4 people who managed to voice an opinion and c) decisions are inherently conservative (that is, if some change looks like it will have far-reaching repercussions or involve some work, it's always turned down). 02:46, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::CFD is inherently conservative, but they are also rather brutal in getting rid of new categories that crop up if they don't fit in. I'd suggest just participating there for a few months to get a sense of things - there are a few people who dominate the discussions and things tend to go their way, they hold a lot of sway. You will get a sense of how to craft a nomination so that it goes through, and when you should/shouldn't do a mass nomination for example. I'll send you instructions for how to test the category intersections in a bit.--] (]) 15:06, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::: Oh, that would be so useful, ], thank you. I really thought I'd found my niche in finding appropriate categories for articles and standardizing them. For example, sometimes there are identical categories and one category will have 334 articles assigned to it while the other has 12. Or, there will be a parent category with 9 child categories and then 4 articles that are just assigned to the parent category...I'll see if they are better assigned to a child category.
	:::::::::::: I worked for years in a library so re/assigning categories comes from a desire to organize rather than any ideological/theoretical bias on what categories ''should'' exist. Any way, it is more satisfying working with CfD than AfD where I was less successful and always felt like I was crushing someone's work.<font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::If you are that special type of person who actually enjoys categorization, then you are most welcome. For most people, it is a tedious and depressing. You can read through my deghettoization algorithm here: ] - and if you understand that, you are well on your way to understanding why we should move to category intersection... :) --] (]) 15:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::: Depressing? No! It's bringing order to chaos, more accurate categorization helps people find what they are looking for more easily. No, what I find depressing is deleting articles or reverting people's contributions. I understand that those actions must be done (pruning away the unimportant and trivial), I just don't find that kind of work rewarding. I think it is far too easy to drive away new editors through speedy deletions and reverts.
	:::::::::::::: On the other hand, dealing with categories has led me into a few unexpected conflicts (like the first comment in this thread) when I thought my decisions were pretty straight-forward. But I did recheck some of my work from early yesterday and replaced several categories that I had deleted to address her concerns.
	:::::::::::::: Thanks for that link, I'm eager to read that page. It can be overwhelmingly to consider recategorizing thousands of "neutral" pages into gender appropriate categories so that the parent category can have both male and female child categories (if that is the way it's set up like for Actors and Comedians). That's the only depressing aspect I've found about categories but the work does go quicker with HotCat. However, the more I look at Categorization, the more work I see that needs to be addressed. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:07, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
			Just a reminder/clarification that I expect a response from you at ]. Thanks. ] ] ] 22:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Evidence phase open - Manning naming dispute==
			:Hello, ],
	Dear Liz.
			:I didn't know you were waiting for a response from me so thank you for the reminder. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Green redirects ==
	This is just a quick courtesy notice. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by September 19, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, ]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see ]. For the Arbitration Committee, ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 23:45, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for letting me know, ''']'''. I'm not sure what to do. I sort of said what I wanted to say in my statement and I wasn't an active participant in the discussion so I'm not presenting "evidence", just my opinion. What do you suggest? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
	== September 2013 ==
			I came across ] at ] (closed a few hours ago). I appreciate your work of informing editors that redirects aren't suitable targets for redirecting/merging; I just wanted to let you know that redirects are blue for most editors (they're only green for you because you've installed ]). ] (]) 05:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
	] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 2 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on .
			:Hello, ],
	{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}-
			:Okay, well thanks for letting me know. I've been editing for over 11 years now and have so many scripts installed that I am not always cognizant of how my view of a page is different from another editor's. But it's amazing how often editors will suggest a target page for a redirect that is also a redirect. I guess they don't go and check it out first. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
	! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page<span style="font-size:88%;margin-left:3em;">(Click show <span style="font-size:130%;">⇨</span>)</span></div>
	{{!}}-
	{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">
	*<nowiki>201/1/1998)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=1/1/2010%20to%201/1/1998</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22Diff'rent%20Strokes'%20star%20Coleman%20cited%20for%</nowiki>
	*<nowiki>| ]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
	*<nowiki>| As Arnold Jackson, with ] as Phillip Drummond</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
	</div>
	{{!}}}
	Thanks, <!-- (-2, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 13:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
			== RFPP request ==
	] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on .
	:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
	*<nowiki></nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
	Thanks, <!-- (0, -1, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 13:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz, if you have time would you consider actioning ] ? Thanx, - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 20:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Disambiguation link notification for September 11==
			:Hello, ],
	Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to ]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			:I don't patrol RFPP much but I don't really see vandalism occurring, just overlinking some words. Is there more that I'm not seeing here? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			::It looks like Isabelle Belato did a range block here so that should take care of your problem. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Draft:Loretanos ==
	:] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;])
	::added links pointing to ], ], ], ] and ]
			I deleted https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft%3ALoretanos&action=history as an abandoned draft, but now in the history note that you had undeleted it the day before. Was the draft refunded to a requestor? Should I undelete it? Thanks. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 03:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
	It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 11:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	: Thanks, ]. All fixed now! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 13:01, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Oh, this is very embarrassing to me. For CSD G13s, we use lists produced by SDZeroBot that, a week ahead of time, produces a list of upcoming stale deletes. See ]. I regularly keep 7 tabs open for the subsequent days of the week that are coming up. Accidentally, last night, I started deleting stale drafts that were due to expire on 11/25 UTC, instead of 11/24 UTC. I was a day off because I had closed one of the tabs. After a couple of hours, I realized my mistake and just restored all of the drafts I deleted a day early. It probably makes no difference at all, I mean, no one has edited these pages in 6 months but you should always check the page history to make sure there are no recent edits to the drafts.
			:Given the discussion on ANI last week, I didn't want to delete any page early since that was mentioned as a problem. So, go ahead, there is no reason not to delete these pages now that it actually IS 11/25 UTC. But I appreciate you checking in with me. Over the past 5 years I've been working with CSD G13s, this has only happened to me one other time so I don't expect this to be a regular occurrence. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks for the info. From what I can see (]), those have been taken care of now. And no need to be embarrassed by a mistake: I'm accumulating a few of my own that I hope remain one-offs! —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 03:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::That GalaxyBot report is very, very new. It's only been around for a day or two and you can see DreamRimmer announcing it ]. It was originally a list to report drafts whose last edit was by a bot, that wouldn't show up on the SDZeroBot report, but it's turning out to be useful in other ways, too. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			== You've got mail==
	==Sandbox of deleted "not-notable" content==
	Thanks Liz for the suggestion to start by sandboxing my content that is not yet notable. I'll do that
	] (]) 15:15, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
	: ], it's important for Editors remember that any work is recoverable unless Misplaced Pages Oversighters have purged it from the system (which rarely happens, usually only when private information is revealed). Just ask an Admin to "userfy" (I think that's how it's spelled) and they'll move the most recent article copy to your Sandbox. Good luck. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 20:16, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
			{{You've got mail}}
	Thanks Liz!
	] (]) 15:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hi! Just sent a message to inquire about some Misplaced Pages wisdom. Would be grateful for any insight you can offer! ] (]) 08:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Category:Pornographic male actors==
			:HI Liz, My Self Sujit Kumar Mishra, I'm author and actor. Last time year I have created wiki page for me. but that time lot's of mistake and my profile was deleted by you I think. So Now I want to create my new wiki pages. How Can I Start Pls. Guide me, Thanks Advance. ] (]) 14:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
	''']''', which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at ''']''' on the ] page.<!-- Template:Cfd-notify--> Thank you. ] (]) 22:41, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
	: What? ], I don't remember creating this category. I don't work on those type of articles. I was working on male actor categories this morning but it was mostly 16th-19th century actors. Please delete away, I have no objection! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC)		::], can you give me a link to the deleted page? Perhaps it can be restored. As for advice on editing on Misplaced Pages, I'd recommend bringing your questions to ]. The Teahouse is a forum to help new editors with learning about editing here. I don't really spend time advising editors on content creation. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Quarry help ==
	==] of ]==
			Hi Liz. You seem to be familiar with Quarry? I'm rather hopeless with SQL. Could this be used to produce a list of articles created (excl redirects) by an individual user? I got a bit carried away trimming my watchlist and want to make sure I have them all captured. doesn't work due to edit count and I can't find any other way. If not, are you aware of any other tools? No urgency at all for this .. only if/when you have time. Thanks. ] (]) 23:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
	]
			:Hello, ],
			:Welcome to my user talk page. Am I familiar with Quarry? Well, yes and no. I run queries on Quarry throughout the day and so I make use of it a lot. But as for the queries themselves, the ones I use were all written by more technically-savvy editors than I. That happens a lot on Quarry, an editor will find a query that produces some report they are interested in and then they "fork" it or make their own copy.
			:One way to find editors that might know more about writing queries than I, is by looking at and see which editors are using Quarry. If you are friends with one of the editors who appear, you might try approaching them. But from looking at this list, I see ] who just wrote an awesome query that helped us find expiring draft that had last been edited by a bot. Perhaps they would be able to whip up a query to help you.
			:You also might try ]. I once wanted to find out how many Teahouse invitations I had posted (which was in the tens of thousands) and someone there helped me with it.
			:As for Watchlists, I'm the LAST editor to give advice there as I have over 200,000 pages on my Watchlist. I made the mistake of checking off a box that added every page I edit to my Watchlist which makes it practically useless to me now. I'm not even sure how to get it down to a manageable 10-20,000 page list.
			:I hope there is some advice here you can use. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			:@], you can use ] query. – ] <small>(])</small> 03:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::It's like magic, ]! I didn't even have to say your name three times and you appear! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			@] & ] – Thank you both. That's perfect. ] (]) 03:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Requesting review ] ==
	The article ] has been ] because it appears to have no references. Under ], this newly created ''']''' will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a ] that directly supports material in the article. &#32; The nominator also raised the following concern:
	:<b>All biographies of living people created after March 18, 2010, must have references.</b>
			Hi @ Liz. I hope you’re doing well. Recently I created this article about a Radhikaraje Gaekwad is one of the most progressive Maharani of India. Can you please review it? This has gone unnoticed for a while.Can you please tell me when and how will this article appear as the top search result when someone will search the topic? ]
	If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see ], or ask at the ]. Once you have provided at least one ], you may remove the {{tl|prod blp}} tag. '''Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced.''' If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can {{#ifexist:Perry Belcher|request that it be undeleted|]}} when you are ready to add one.<!-- Template:ProdwarningBLP --> ].<sup>]</sup> Grammatically incorrect? '''Correct it!''' ] 23:00, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
			] (]) 20:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I'm not sure what you are asking for here. ] has been a main space article since July 2024. When editors ask for a "review", it's typically of a draft article and they are asking if it is ready to move to main space. Main space articles are only reviewed by our New Page Patrollers and it doesn't look like any have examined it yet. But after all of these months that have passed, it's unlikely to be reviewed by a NPP now because they review recently created articles.
			:As for Google search results, that's nothing Misplaced Pages has control over. But you might get better advice than I can offer if you pose your question at ], there are a lot of experienced editors there and maybe one of them knows more than I about search engine results.
			:If the problem is you want this article deleted, I suggest looking at ] or ] which can give you guidance on tagging an article for deletion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
			== response ==
	: It looks like this is one argument I won't win, ]. I think he is a notable figure but I'm not so invested that I'm going to spend time tracking down references when I could be doing other Misplaced Pages work. Maybe you could just replace your redirect so the page doesn't completely disappear. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:35, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
			it IS relevant. wikipedia has a shortage of articles on many important concepts in the social work profession.
	== Interesting essay ==
			my purpose in sharing the link was to jumpstart the building of wikipedia articles in this aria.
	I had never seen ] before. Sounds a lot like my own ]. ] (]) 02:52, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
			and since the "wikiproject social work" is pretty much dead, I'm enlisting the help of wikiprojects sociology and psychology which are the closest academic disciplines to social work.
	: There are a lot of Misplaced Pages essays I like, ]. Another good one!
			what else should i do ? ] (]) 19:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
	: I hope you don't mind me posting a statement in your ARBCOM case. I tried to be even-handed but I had to share what I saw/read. It'll be interesting if they take this on. There is certainly an abundance of material to read through. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 03:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
	::I don't mind at all. As you can see, perspectives vary greatly on this one. The vote is now 6 for acceptance, so we will see if this can be resolved by motion or if it goes to a full case. As you say, there is an abundance of material. A relevant question is, who wants to find out how deep this rabbit hole goes? They might not like what they find there. ] (]) 03:18, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Yes, a lot of horrible, ugly words have been spoken. It won't be hard to find Diffs. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 03:22, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::Hi Folks, the ] essay is newly created. If you have any input about it I'd love to hear your feedback and comments on the talk page there. Good luck with your ArbCom. Cheers!--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 19:10, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
			== Can you restore ]? ==
	== Reversion ==
	Liz, I simply couldn't resist that. Oh, and why were you writing in first person?!? ] (]) 03:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
			I'll populate it now with some entries based on ] (I am not sure if there is a
	: It was a Talk Page comment, I didn't edit the article at all and the article is meant to be humorous. You had to delete the entire Talk Page comment, I thought that was frowned upon. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 10:34, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
			Wikidata entry to link) <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 03:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:{{done}} That was an easy request to fulfill. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks. Can you now undelete ] - we have several subcategories now (I'll populate it). <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 06:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{done}} <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Categorization==		== Quick cleanup ==
	Happy to be of help. I can't take all the credit...or even most of it, really. I'm building a lot on the shoulders of others. I've created a very few categories, as most of them were already in place when I came along. It is tedious, yes - and I check manually for much the same reason you do (although there are ways to harness AWB's power, if you wish...not much less tedious, though.) But it's a great way to keep busy and do something productive when I need to. :-)
			Is it necessary to promptly and systematically remove all links to articles deleted at PROD? E.g. It makes it much harder to fully restore these articles in the event they are deleted in error (which happens frequently at PROD IME). ~] (]) 18:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
	Keep up the good work, and happy editing! --<font face="Old English Text MT">]</font><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 21:59, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I hope you are having a good week. This is a more complicated question than it appears. It started when I first became an admin in 2015 and I was instructed that when I deleted a page, I should remove all of the red links. So, that's been my practice for the past 9 years. But lately, for PROD deletions (it doesn't seem to come up with AFD deletions), I've been asked to not just leave the red links but to go to each article and remove all of the references to the deleted article completely. Since some articles are linked to dozens of related articles, this could be very time-intensive additional work to do when you are focused on admin tasks, like I am.
			:I'd question you on two points: Is it really that hard, if a PROD'd article is restored, to undo my edits? Is it that they are hard to find amidst my long Contributions list? They are usually mentioned in my edit summaries and my guesstimate is that only about 1 out or 20 PROD'd articles is later restored. Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean by "deleted in error" for a PROD'd article. Are you simply asserting that, if you had known about these tagged articles you would have removed the PROD tag? Because all admins I know who review PROD'd articles make sure they have not been PROD'd or to AFD before so I'm not sure what you are referring to as an "error". Additionally, I'm not the only admin who reviews and deletes PROD'd articles so if you want this unlinking behavior to end, it should probably be discussed at ].
			:Thanks for any clarification you can provide. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
			::I think you're right, we should discuss this at ]. I'll open a discussion.
			::Can you tell me where you receive these directions to delete links and mentions as part of deletion?
			::By ''error'' I mostly mean that ] has not been respected as I believe was the case with ] recently. I have suspended my ] activities because it is not a workload I can sustain. When I have been active, I tend to deprod over 30% of proposals. Your assessment is 5%. I wonder why there is such a big discrepancy here. ~] (]) 15:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::First, I appreciate the work you do with PROD'd articles. They don't get the kind of attention that articles nominated for AFD discussions receive. CSD-tagged articles and pages receive even less attention and are more difficult to restore than PRODs but that's another discussion that can occur at ] one day. I'm sorry you can't sustain your PROD patrolling as we only have a few other editors who keep up with PROD'd articles and then tend to focus on specific types of articles like ones about Olympians or films. Unfortunately, we don't have many "generalists" like yourself.
			:::As for numbers, we are talking about apples and oranges here. Your figure is the number of tagged articles that you have de-PROD'd. I was talking about the number of articles and files that are deleted through Proposed deletion that are end up being restored through ] or through a request to the deleting administrator. Also, I said my figure was a guesstimate that is just based on how many articles I delete as PRODs vs. how many articles I'm asked to restore. So, I wouldn't put any money on my figure.
			:::I hope you have a pleasant weekend! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::That makes sense. I've never tried to assess how many prodded articles are restored (not an easy task for a non-administrator). I'm surprised it is 1 in 20. That means that as many as 1 in 6 iffy prods are being restored. I assumed that having to make a REFUND request and the near cloak of invisibility on deleted articles would provide a higher barrier than that. I don't know whether to be encouraged or discouraged by this information. ~] (]) 15:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			== You've got mail==
	: Well, some folks have been busy! I spent hours this morning on Bangladeshi male actors and all of the actresses had already been separated out.
			{{You've got mail}} <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 19:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
	: This is the second time someone has mentioned AWB, <font face="Old English Text MT">]</font>, so maybe I should check it out. I've been using HotCat which I've found to be very fast (better at adding and renaming categories than removing ones) but perhaps AWB is more effective.
			:Hello, ],
	: Although it can be very repetitive and tedious, I'm find categorization work very satisfying but then I spent years working in a library and refiling books (the old days) so there is just satisfying about bringing order to disorder. I've had less success at CfD, I think every category proposal I've made hasn't gone through. I still need to understand the consensus process there.
	: Thanks for the reply...see you around, Ser. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:12, 12 September 2013 (UTC)		:I can't find an email message from you. When did you send it to me? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:32, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Hello, on Nov 26.
			::I sent it again now, at 2:39 UTC.
			::There were not urgent issues, mainly replies. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 02:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, I sent two topics on Dec. 3, 5:22 pm UTC and today, 3:56 pm UTC. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Undeletion request for article ] ==
	== ''The Signpost'': 11 September 2013 ==
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-09-11}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 36-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 04:12, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0617 -->
			soft deleted at ]. (Nominated by @]) There are various references available about the topic now. So, I would request you to kindly restore it. ] (]) 12:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Muboshgu|Prolific editor!|ts=10:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)}}
	&ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 10:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
			:@], this article is eligible for ], please use it. ~] (]) 15:45, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Visits==
			::@] {{tpw}} I think ] is attempting to do exactly that. I doubt there's a hard and fast rule about using requests for undeletion. ] ] ] 18:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	Hahaha - there are some weird number of page watchers for my user page, I suspect forgotten visit/watch tags from people long gone quiet or off on a permananent lunch. To have actually a comment about the myrmecia (ant), is probably the first comment about my user page photo for at least a year... so it begged a reply. A bite, or an accumulative series can kill if you are allergic to bee stings. I have been bitten a few times over the last x years, so my reactions have not been of the sort to create alarm. A biology specialist at a local University counselled me seriously over the issue when I alerted him to my photos, I suspect he has had to guide medicos through people bitten and their medical issues. Interestingly the particular nest that I had photographed had a group of ants that grew accustomed to me and my camera, and did not go through the typical response of trying to rush the camera or me. I was quite devastated when the local council destroyed the nest in some roadwork activity.
			::{{ping|Kvng}} Appealing to the admin who deleted the draft is as valid as REFUND. —] ] <sup><small>] ]</small></sup> 18:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:{{done}} An editor can appeal to the admin who deleted the page but also, as Kvng advises, ] is possible and you might get a quicker response there. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:57, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thank you @], I also appreciate your advise @]. And thanks for adding your valuable comments @], @]. ] (]) 02:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Deletions ==
	User page photographs can be quite a revealing or deceptive device on the part of some users - some years ago more effort would be put imnto user boxes than actual editing, and I do remember fondly the Australian editor who never left his talk page, long diatribes about the injustices of the world, all on his talk and user page. Then eventually he went quiet and hasnt been seen again. I now know many more who have either left or are literally inactive on wp en than currently out there in the general wp editing. Enough. Thanks for your comment. ] 11:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
			Please do not delete category:Kimberellomorphs , since it is not empty anymore. ] (]) 20:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	: Wow, now that I read that you actually took the photo, ], I'm really impressed! I thought it was a photo you plucked out of the Commons archives. I don't think I would have gotten that close!<br>
			:Hello, ],
	: Re: WP activity, I have been looking at editing stats for some Editors when I come across their User Page and it's interesting to see what proportion of edits are in Articles vs. Talk Pages vs. User Talk Pages, etc. For some people, they rarely edit on Misplaced Pages policy/noticeboard pages and spend their time working on Articles while other folks, mostly Arbitrators and Admins, most of their edits are on Misplaced Pages pages or User Talk pages. Maybe people who file a RfA should be warned that they won't have time any more for article creation or tweaking.
	: Thanks for visiting! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:11, 13 September 2013 (UTC)		:I know, that's why I removed the speedy deletion tag. It still needs some "parent" categories added to it. Our categories are in a hierarchy so what would be the logical categories that it would be a "child" or? It shouldn't be too difficult as species/genus also are sorted into hierarchies themselves. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			==Greetings, Talk page stalkers!==
	::IMHO - where an editor for rfa or something similar has evidence of s single skill/focus area on the edit counters, I would think there is inadequate knowledge of the workings of wikipedia. X!s Edit Counter - speaks volumes about an editors capacities - for good or for ill ] 01:07, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hello, all,
			I seem to have quite a few editors who have this User talk page on their Watchlists and you often help me out by supplying answers to queries either before I can get to them or when I don't know the exact answer to the question. But now I'm writing directly to you to encourage your participation in an annual election on the English Misplaced Pages.
	== Wikidata weekly summary #75 ==
			This is the last weekend of ]. Please take a moment to review ], scan over ], if you want, browse through ] created by your fellow editors and, if you have formed any opinions, ]. Your options for each candidates are "Support", "Oppose" or "Abstain"...Abstains are not included in determining the level of support for a candidate. Voting is open until 23:59 UTC, 2 December 2024, this Monday (3 days from now). Depending on where you live, this UTC time could correspond to 4 pm, 7 pm or 10 pm (Monday) or even 3 am, 6 am or 9 am (Tuesday) so check your time zone and clocks.
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
	]
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* ]/]
	** State of the Map
	** Dbpedia-Wikidata workshop
	** Slides for a Wikidata intro in ] and ]
	** Speaker needed for a
	** Blog post by Denny:
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
	** Go and add all the sources ;-)
	** ] by Magnus to help you add URLs from Misplaced Pages articles for claims
	** Wikimedia Commons is scheduled to get interwiki links via Wikidata on 23rd of September
	* Did you know?
	** Newest properties: Saskatchewan Register of Heritage Property identifier (P845), Global Biodiversity Information Facility ID (P846), United States Navy aircraft designation (P847), Japanese military aircraft designation (P849), World Register of Marine Species identifier (P850), ESRB rating (P852), CERO rating (P853), URL (P854), Sandbox-URL (P855), official website (P856), CNKI (P857), ESPN SCRUM ID (P858), sponsor (P859), e-archiv.li ID (P860), premiershiprugby.com ID (P861), Operational Requirement of the UK Air Ministry (P862), InPhO identifier (P863), ACM Digital Library author identifier (P864), BMLO (P865), Perlentaucher (P866), ROME Occupation Code (P867), foods traditionally associated (P868), instrumentation (P870), printed by (P872), phase point (P873), UN class (P874), UN code classification (P875), UN packaging group (P876), NFPA Other (P877), avionics (P878), pennant number (P879), CPU (P880), Variable type (P881), FIPS 6-4 (US counties) (P882), FIPS 5-2 (code for US states) (P883), State Water Register Code (Russia) (P884), origin of the watercourse (P885), LIR (P886), based on heuristic (P887), JSTOR (P888), Mathematical Reviews identifier (P889), Request for Comments number (IETF) (P892), Social Science Research Network (P893)
	** Newest task forces: ]
	* Development
	**
	** Started work on number data type
	** Worked on simple query special page
	** Worked more on moving (ordering) of qualifiers
	** Worked on JSON dumps
	** Continued working on allowing editentities API module to allow editing of claims
	** Continued work on the merge items API module
	** Worked on fixing the way Claim GUIDs are used throughout the code
	** Worked on TableDefinitionReaders for Database component
	** Unified and improved rendering of property values in summaries, diffs, wiki-pages, etc.
	** Continued moving to new browsertests framework
	** Bugfixes on autosummaries
	** Worked with GSoC student on mobile skin
	** Worked on refactoring of how we serialize and provide data about used entities on a page (e.g. entity pages or certain special pages) to the frontend
	* Open Tasks for You
	** ] for a property.
	** ].
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 16:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0583 -->
			But here is your annual chance to cast your vote for the future arbitration committee members. Voter eligibility is outlined ]. Typically, I think elections draw between 1,000-2,000 participating editors so it's a fraction of our active editors. Consider your options and if you choose to participate, than please do so before Monday, midnight UTC, Dec. 2nd. Thank you for reading, now return to your regularly scheduled editing routine. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Speedy delete ==
	] Hello Liz. You tagged a page for speedy deletion, but you did not notify the article's creator that it had been so tagged. There is strong consensus that the creators of articles tagged for speedy deletion should be warned and that the person placing the tag has that responsibility. All of the major speedy deletion templates contain a pre-formatted warning for this purpose—just copy and paste to the creator's talk page. Thank you.{{z19}}<!--Template:SD warn-needed--> <small>— Preceding <span style="color:#0645AD;">''signed''</span> comment added by ] (] • ])</small> 21:28, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Oh, ], you are so right! I forgot to post those notices. I've only put speedy delete tags on categories/articles that I mistakenly created, not those written by others. Thank you for pointing this out to me and I'll remember to do so in the future. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:11, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
	::No worries! If you're worried about forgetting in the future, you could always enable ] in your Preferences. When you nominate an article for deletion (be it CSD, AfD or prod) using Twinkle, it automatically notifies the creator of the article! Cheers, <small>— Preceding <span style="color:#0645AD;">''signed''</span> comment added by ] (] • ])</small> 23:06, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Oh, that is brilliant, that it sends out notifications! I have enabled Twinkle but haven't used it much. I also hear a lot about Huggle and AWB but I haven't used them yet. Doing things the old-fashioned way, I'm sure once I figure out the tools I'll wonder why I waited so long! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:17, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::I think you'll really like Twinkle! It streamlines a lot of things. Happy editing! <small>— Preceding <span style="color:#0645AD;">''signed''</span> comment added by ] (] • ])</small> 23:41, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::::I've gotten a lot of mileage out of HotCat as I work with Categories a lot. Have a great weekend! ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
			:This would've reminded me to vote, if I ever voted in ACE. On behalf of those who do vote, thanks. ] ] ] 23:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Message ==
			::Just curious, ], is this election just a distraction from the editing work you prefer to spend your time on or is not voting a "protest vote" because you think the whole thing is political? And if you don't want to answer, that's fine, too. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::I'll answer. It's not terribly deep, though. I just never got in the habit. ] ] ] 02:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{tps}} ], never mind, vote. That should more than make up for you. ] &#124; ] 03:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
			:::::As a tonality indicator, I took that as a joke. ] ] ] 03:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:👍 ] (]) 04:35, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Already voted. Thanks. ] (]) 10:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::That's great. I don't care how you voted, I'm just glad to see editors participating in the process. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 10:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Good luck to you and all the candidates @]! ] ] 16:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			== My section on the admin noticeboard ==
	{{wb|Anna Frodesiak|CfD notifications}} ] (]) 00:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
			Apologies for wasting space on there. Was that just not necessary to bring up at all? ] (]) 10:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Please comment on ] ==
			:Hello, ],
			:It's not a matter of "wasting space", it is just not an urgent matter than needs the attention of the entire admin community. If this had been persistent vandalism, then it would have been suitable for you to report it at ], if it was an incidence of edit-warring, go to ], if you believe it was a case of sockpuppetry, file a case at ], if it was an ongoing dispute that you cannot seem to resolve, then ] might have been appropriate if talking to another editor hadn't worked. But ] is for issues affecting the admin corps or for certain other issues like a request from a banned editor to be unbanned from the project. Like many areas of this project, it takes a while to figure out where to go to find an answer to a problem.
			:This incident, however, was just 2 rather odd edits from a new editor but they weren't disruptive or damaging to the project. Instead of coming to AN, you could have tried talking to the editor or alerting an admin on their User talk page. But it definitely wasn't urgent and it's likely that this editor won't return to edit on Misplaced Pages. We get a lot of new accounts that are created, make one or two edits, and then leave. And, surprisingly, most accounts that are created don't make any edits at all!
			:You might want to look over ] to see the variety of places you can go for help. I'm sorry if it seems a bit overwhelming but we have a lot of noticeboards broken down by the nature of the problem that is being discussed. Finally, any time you bring a complaint to a noticeboard about another editor, you have to notify them of the discussion. On the noticeboard, a code should be displayed that you can use or you can just leave a personal note that you write.
			:If you have any other questions about noticeboards and when you should use them, please bring them to ] where experienced editors can offer you advice, support and a second opinion. Have a good weekend. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:19, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::@] Thanks, that's helpful. ] (]) 05:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Multiple PRODs to an article ==
	Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— <!-- FRS id 51 --> ] (]) 00:59, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz. I see you removed the PROD from ]. I used to think it was for one-time use, but when I've recently double-checked, I'm not finding such restrictions, only restrictions on reverting and edit warring. Am I missing something? - ] (]) 20:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
	== "Many awards and orders categories are up for deletion" ==
			:Hello, ],
			:I hope you are having a nice weekend.
			:According to ], {{tq|PROD is one-shot only: It must not be used for pages PRODed before or previously discussed at AfD or FfD.}}. This article was PROD'd (see , and then de-PROD'd (see ), in May 2007 so the article is not eligible to be re-PROD'd. In fact, no article can be PROD'd more than once unless the tag used is actually a ] which is for BLPs that have no references, citations or external links. I hope this explains my decision to remove the tag. This only means that, if you wish to see this article deleted, you must nominate it for a discussion at ]. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks! --] (]) 21:06, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::@] {{tpw}} Just to add in my opinion, PROD is good for checking if a low-quality, abandoned article is actually abandoned. If it is, it gets ]ably deleted. If it isn't, it goes through AfD.
			:::Of course, it's sometimes hard to know when an article has been PRODded if it's happened years before. Ask me how I know. {{wink}} ] ] ] 23:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::This is why I am so eager to convince editors to use Twinkle to tag pages for deletion, because Twinkle will leave a relevant edit summary stating that it was posting a PROD tag. It's easy to see when you are looking at the page history. But we have some senior editors who like to manually tag pages for deletion and they do not always leave a helpful edit summary stating what they did so sometimes you have to check all edits that are of a certain size to see if they were PROD-taggings. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:27, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::::{{tquote|we have some senior editors who like to manually tag pages for deletion and they do not always leave a helpful edit summary stating what they did}} Sounds like Misplaced Pages. ] ] ] 23:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			::::::I've been meaning to set up a better editing environment for myself that includes Twinkle. (Yes, I still use WikiBlame and I miss reFill and it's predecessors.) I'm fairly good with the edit summaries at least. --] (]) 19:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Raleigh Memorial Auditorium ==
	''I hope members of this WikiProject can weigh in on these discussions at CfD.'' - Hmmm. Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it. But what's the incentive? As you are more than aware, the only successful communication I had was with you! Why would anyone try to have a rational conversation on that page when the major noisemaker has no understanding of, or interest in, the word "consensus", or any other POV than his own? I feel that your comment at the top of your talk page is an excellent summary of the situation.<br>
			Hi! I saw that you are the editor that deleted the ] article. I was wondering if you would be able to undo that, or provide the old body from the previous article so that I can add that in when making a new article under the auditorium's new name "Martin Marietta Center for the Performing Arts"? -- ] (]) 04:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	If you wish to discuss this topic with me via email, please feel free; I have the expectation that any public discussion will lead to "tears before bedtime".<br>
			:Hello, ],
	Never-the-less, despite my cynicism, I want to make it clear that I am encouraged by your reasonable and rational approach, and I am highly supportive of it. <u>Please</u> keep up the good work - far too many editors are, like me, throwing their hands up in the air and thinking that trying to have a half-way "normal" conversation is just too much effort. Best wishes, ] (]) 13:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Actually, ] was just a redirect that pointed to an actual article, ]. You should make this request to the admin who deleted that article which was ]. I think you might have better results if you asked for the article to be restored to Draft or User space so you could work on improving it. Good luck. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	: You sound weary of debate, ]. There is more than one Editor participating at CfD and it is Admins who determine the consensus view of a discussion at CfD. I actually had a similar question to yours and went to Admins to see how they arrive at it and close a discussion. ] that I found helpful.<br>
			::Oh, my mistake! Thank you so much! I will try that. -- ] (]) 04:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	: For good or bad, the answers you receive can depend on whom you choose to ask and some Editors are open and forthcoming in explaining the process while others provide answers that are less satisfying. If you strike out with one, I recommend asking another active participant in whichever area of WP you are focusing on, whether it is on an article Talk Page, noticeboard, WikiProject or policy page. I've also had luck at ] and ]...Editors working at these places volunteer to track down answers to questions. And those Editors who are welcoming and generous in explaining procedures and processes? I have them on my Misplaced Pages speed-dial!<br>
	: If there are further discussions about these matters, I'll keep you posted and invite you to participate. I think the views of both those who are very experienced and those who are new to a decision process should be heard...from the former, you hear the voice of experience and from the latter, you learn what is confusing or unclear. <br>
	: Thanks for posting! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 13:32, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
	::Thanks Liz. I'm glad that people like you are still around. Unfortunately, in my 6 years of experience of WP, I have discovered that people like you are few. And far between. (And yes, they are all on my speed-dial!) Cheers, ] (]) 14:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Well, ], although I first created an account in 2007, I only edited sporadically, mainly as an IP, until recently. So, while I'm trying to get wiser about the way things work here at WP, I still believe that positive change can happen if one gets sufficient support from others.
	::: As a lone voice, you can be mislabeled as "disruptive" but if a group of Editors voices their support for a proposal, even if it fails to sway the majority, at least their voice is heard and a position can no longer be judged as "trivial" or "subjective". Maybe it's because my training is in sociology but I've seen change happen when allies work together where if it was just a solitary person, he or she would be hitting his or her head against a brick wall.
	::: And because our cultures and social mores change, that means consensus changes, too....not in an "end of Western civilization" way but in a progressive way of improving our understanding of the world and each other. Well, that's my hope any way. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 19:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
			:::Thanks Liz. ], you are better off starting from scratch. Since its creation, the page has been almost entirely lacking in ] or any real facts to show that it meets the ]. It's also promotional in tone (recently ''enhancing the space to blend state-of-the-art technical amenities with traditional theatre traditions... a unique experience perfect for ballet, opera, concerts, and comedy... this space is also the idea blank slate for video shoots, meetings, and corporate luncheons'') and a substantial copyright violation of the theatre's website. In any case, the G12 precludes restoration as a draft. ] - ] 13:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== You've got mail! ==
	== Hey you! respect my article! (Aeolus planet) ==
	Hey you! Can not put this article in the elimination just because you think he is an essay that was made or invented in one day! I spent two months researching to write. I put the references and they are accurate. Learn to read in Italian and buy the book indicated to confirm. Hey I'm very upset with you administrators of wikipedia. I do an article, someone comes along and wants to eliminate. I modify the article then comes another unhappy and complains saying the change I made became Article inappropriate. You need to set parameters! This time I will not accept! I researched a lot and I did not invent anything that is written. Respect! Respect my work! You use parameters defined by wikipedia, but judge subjectively, as if they knew or were all, like doctors experts on the subject! There are dozens of articles like this scattered throughout wikipedia worldwide! see:
			{{You've got mail}} ] (]) 08:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	https://en.wikipedia.org/Theia_ (planet) # Theia
			== Civility ==
	https://en.wikipedia.org/Vulcan_ (hypothetical_planet)
			Bit confused by your post over at ]. I believe that people who use techniques like a ] are trying to manipulate which is a clear sign of disrespect. I had hoped you knew me enough to know that I am direct when necessary and kind when possible. And remember: free pitchforks! ] (]) 13:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	http://wikipedia.qwika.com/it2en/X-Proserpina_ (astrology)
			On an unrelated note, now that ] has been deleted, can we move ] there? ] (]) 19:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	https://it.wikipedia.org/X-Proserpina
			Maybe you can explain ] and ] to Robin82346? They won't listen to me, and they've been deleting red links with the editsummary {{tq|Fixed dead link}}. Many of their edits are subpar, and many of them should be reverted. ] (]) 01:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	https://pt.wikipedia.org/Tyche_ (planet)
			== About the categories of North Indian and South Indian descent. ==
	http://de.wikipedia.org/Tyche_(Planet)
			Greetings,
	https://de.wikipedia.org/Transpluto
			I noticed that you placed a speedy deletion tag on the categories ] and ]. I would like to offer some reasons why these categories should be retained, as they highlight important aspects of diversity within the broader Indian-American community:
			Recognition of Cultural and Regional Diversity:
			India is an incredibly diverse country with distinct regional identities, languages, cuisines, traditions, and cultural practices. Categorizing individuals of South Indian and North Indian descent helps acknowledge these unique aspects within the diaspora, which otherwise might be overlooked in broader, generalized categories.
			Better Representation:
			These categories allow for a more granular understanding of how various communities contribute to American society. For example, South Indian Americans have made significant contributions in fields like technology and classical arts, while North Indian Americans are prominent in areas like politics and Bollywood-inspired media.
			Facilitating Research and Accessibility:
			Scholars, journalists, and readers looking to explore specific contributions or experiences of South Indian or North Indian communities in the U.S. will find such categorization invaluable. It ensures that resources and information are easier to locate and study.
			Reflecting Diaspora Identity:
			Many Indian Americans identify strongly with their regional heritage (e.g., Tamil, Kannada, Punjabi, or Gujarati). These categories validate and reflect the lived experiences and identities of people within the diaspora.
			Consistency with Other Ethnic Subcategories:
			Misplaced Pages frequently recognizes subcategories for other ethnic or national groups, such as ] or ]. The proposed categories are consistent with this practice of nuanced representation.
			I believe these categories enrich Misplaced Pages’s diversity and inclusivity by acknowledging the varied and vibrant backgrounds within the Indian-American community. I hope this perspective provides a reason to reconsider the deletion proposal.
			Looking forward to your response! ] (]) 16:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			:P.S. Please reply on my talk page. ] (]) 16:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
	Now please stop me miserable, as do the other and go do something more productive! Will read about astronomy and the theory of hypothetical planets!
			::@] {{tpw}} I see that you put an identical message on {{U|Explicit}}s talk page. ] ] ] 16:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Yes. I copied and pasted it. ] (]) 17:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Hello, ],
			::::As advised, I responded on your User talk page. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Duplicate !vote at ]? ==
	Ad Astra2013 ] (]) 00:37, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			{{diff2|1260659780|This}} looks like a mistake - the !vote was by 1keyhole, not the nom. ] ] 00:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:Hello, ],
	: I placed the tag, ], because the article appeared to be your own original research. You are free to contest the deletion and improve the referencing to support your work.
	: By the way, this is English Misplaced Pages and knowing Italian shouldn't be a prerequisite for understanding an article. As for similar articles appearing on Wikipedias in other languages, I only participate on en.wiki so I won't pass judgments on decisions made there. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 10:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)		:You are absolutely right. I'll revert myself if no one has already done so. Thank you for catching this. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Logging speedy deletion nomination of Ashutosh Niranjan. (Mistakenly posted to ]) ==
	2º epistemological round
			Regarding Logging speedy deletion nomination of Ashutosh Niranjan. this ia an official page of ias officer. ] (]) 13:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC) - moved by <b>]] (])</b> 01:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	Yeah, but either way , but should pay attention to the fact that in other wikipedias World , there are articles like this. This demonstrates quality standard and level things . FACT there are items in any other part of wikipedia dealing on the subject , it is prerequisite to validate the article , and you have the least notion of erroneous assessment has committed. Should pay attention to the fact that we live in a cosmopolitan world , and if you think that is inserted into it , have to be aware of things happening around you and that are documented as such in one language into another. Act contrary to it , only makes clear how limited is your horizon . Must answer three questions before judging my article :
			:Hello, ],
			:I have no idea what this message is supposed to mean. Why are reposting a message from May 2024 on my User talk page? What are you asking for? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I have no idea either; you can contact the original commenter. I was just moving a message that had been misplaced on the wrong page in case it meant anything. <b>]] (])</b> 03:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Deletion of Jayson Sherlock on Misplaced Pages ==
	I understand and know deeply astrology?
			Hi there Liz! My name is Jayson Sherlock and I'm a musical artist and have been on Misplaced Pages for many years, I have many fans worldwide who use Misplaced Pages to find out information about me. I have no offensive material on my page and would never accept anything of that nature. I hope you will reinstate my page so my fans can continue to learn more about me. Thank you so very much. Blessings, Jayson. ] (]) 07:49, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	I understand and know deeply astronomy ?
			:Hello, ]/Jayson,
			:Before I can say yes or no, I need to see why the article was deleted. Please provide me with a link to the deleted page. THank yuo. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:53, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Regarding that EE fellow over at ANI ==
	The subject of this article is that a fact? Yes , because there is a lot of intellectual and physical events that support it.
			Would you be willing to entertain the notion that it's someone related to the recent ArbCom case? I have filed an SPI request yesterday (under a different IP, as my home IP granted by my ISP is dynamic), but it seems that the request was shot down by an admin before it could have been reviewed.
	You do not know Italian, but should have a minimum of epistemological understanding to judge information , and knowledge sharing . especially those in areas of knowledge that you do not know .
			I have been detailing that account for a while now and with their recent harassment by copypasting a CTOP warning (intended for themselves) to their victim (which is reminiscent of their behaviour on the Japanese wiki), I am confident to say that it is the very same person behind it, from the topics involved to the account they're (currently) harassing, as well as the edit timelines between the 2 (1 has been active, while the other has stopped completely). I have also sent an email with updated info regarding this to the CU team, perhaps you should ring them up regarding this.
	I can not go beyond what I have written in the article. Add more information would THEN write an essay and my interest is just PRESENTED facts . You should know that quantity is not quality , and that there are small items that say it all and are perfect , and while there are plenty of those who are confused a drug . This article reached your limit of information , as I said , anything will make him a trial . So be content . Around the world millions of people are interested in astrology and astronomy. But as you yourself made ​​it clear , do not know Italian and even have money to import the books that talk about the subject of the article . Because of this this article becomes the primary source for the subject . From it , anyone who speaks English , have knowledge of aa theory presented . Will know that there is a theory of a certain hypothetical planet , as well as other wikipedia is filled with articles on many different theories. And so the person can seek ways to enhance your knowledge on the subject . You, but what anyone else should have in mind that wikipedia is basic and quick source of information for many who do not otherwise have access . And remove my article is to deny people who like astrology and astronomy, in South Africa , Korea , Angola and even in the USA there is information about the fact .
			On a final note, previously I was told off by users with something along the lines of "that misconduct on non-EN wikis aren't indicative of a user's behaviour on EN", I would like to think otherwise, misconduct is misconduct and a leopard never changes its spots. ] (]) 11:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	Now you would like , please let me know to whom I look for , that is above you , to solve this problem . I want to know who will finish judging this issue and want to talk to him . Because from what I am seeing , it does not matter to you what will happen to my article .
			:Hello, ],
			:All I can say right now is that I don't think they are a new editor. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== RD request ==
	AdAstra2013 ] (]) 16:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hi, Liz! I was wondering if you could RevDel that I made to my userpage (and the first edit of my userpage) in November of 2020, it unfortunately has my real name in it and I don't want to be self-doxxed on Misplaced Pages, especially since I'd assume people go to "first diffs" of pages just to see how they've changed over time. Thanks! ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 17:15, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	: First, ], I don't understand much of what you've written. A lot of it is because I can not decipher what you are saying based on your use of English. So, I can not begin to answer all of the questions you seem to be asking.
			:Hello, ],
			:{{done}} Happy to help. But, wow, you've made a lot of edits to your User page over your time here! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks! <small>I know, it's a lot. :)</small> ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 18:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== RD request ==
	: Second, I simply put a tag on your article suggesting it did not meet Misplaced Pages standards. '''You can contest this judgment and defend your article''' but NOT HERE on my Talk Page. I will have no further involvement with your article and will not take any additional actions about it so ''it is not me that you have to convince''. To reiterate, I placed a tag on your article and I've moved on to work on other articles. I have no interest in researching your article and continuing to post on my Talk Page will have no positive effect on the condition of your article since ''I will not be taking any further action on it.'' An appropriate place to talk about the state of the article is on the article's Talk Page (]).
			Hey there, I saw that you handled one of these for EF5, and I was wondering if you could get everything from diff back to the beginning of the user page, and for the same reasons.
	: Finally, I recommend you read, thoroughly, "]" which provides some guidelines on what is expected from articles on Misplaced Pages. Also, as the tag says,
	:<blockquote>"If you can address this concern by improving, copyediting, sourcing, renaming or merging the page, please edit this page and do so. You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason. Although not required, you are encouraged to explain why you object to the deletion, either in your edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, do not replace it."</blockquote>
			] (]) 19:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	: Good luck with your work! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:{{done}} And I took care of 2 edits on your User talk page, too. But there is a message in your talk page archives you're going to want to remove as well. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:47, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I'll get that one; is there anyway to RD the name from my talk page history or am I just going to have to live with it?
			::] (]) 20:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I've edited the PI, if you could RD the previous revision of the archive that would be great!
			:::] (]) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{done}} That was a lot of edits but I understand wanting to keep your personal information private. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Thank you so much! I've been a bit worried about this for a long time, so I really appreciate this!
			:::::] (]) 20:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Unfortunately, I found one more, it's the edit summary on my archive page. Sorry for the bother!
			:::::] (]) 20:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::And what about the redirect from your previous account? Do you want that deleted as a CSD G7? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::Yes. The reason I didn't say anything is because of the renaming policy, where it says something about linking to previous names. As long as it's OK to delete that, I would love to.
			:::::::] (]) 21:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::::I'll double-check then. How about I email you if there is anything further to discuss? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:14, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::::Sounds great, thank you so much!
			:::::::::] (]) 21:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::::::{{You've got mail}} ] (]) 21:36, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Scammers on wikipedia ==
			Hi Liz! I saw you made edits on the Simple Misplaced Pages. I have no idea what site is that, but you said it is your name. This is a famous convicted scammer with the fake agency for bots and fake accounts online.All the articles there are paid and fake and you can see that when you check them. https://simple.wikipedia.org/Michael_Graziano
	Great.
			They made a Simple wikipedia page to keep scamming people online. This is their scam agency, it is called Mindful/Monopolize. https://www.mindfulagency.com/ One of their "owners", a convicted pedophile was jailed last year.https://whoradio.iheart.com/content/2022-09-01-nevada-man-accused-of-child-sex-assault-arrested-in-iowa/
	I know I will not make any difference post here. Cause the only cpisa you even know to do is tweak articles without prior knowledge for disposal. Still, thank you, you answered what I wanted. Furthermore, I will not worry about writing well in English for someone who has little knowledge and epistemological general.
			Here is the article about their scam with link to the lawsuits. It is disgusting. Do you know how to nominate that page to be deleted?His contributions are for the same scammers and his team. Someone I know was scammed by them. https://www.thephoblographer.com/2023/06/27/photographer-sues-monopolize-for-50k-in-the-craziest-story-ever/ ] (]) 20:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	Thanks genius! AdAstra2013 ] (]) 16:03, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	:AdAstra2013, we don't own any of the articles we create or otherwise contribute to here at Misplaced Pages; see ]. ] (]) 16:20, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			:I am really not well acquained with the Simple English Misplaced Pages and how to nominate articles for deletion. Every Wikimedia project has their own system. But I do know that ] is an administrator on the Simple English Misplaced Pages. I'd recommend posting a request on their ] and see if they can look into this matter for you. But admin privileges are not transferable so I am just a basic editor on that project and I don't visit it very often. Good luck! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:23, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I do see that I edited but I'm not sure what led me to that page. We have an article on this project about ] but it's a different person with the same name. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thank you! I will ask him. ] (]) 20:50, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Hi ==
	== Ebionites 3 arbitration case opened ==
			Please see ]. – ] <small>(])</small> 02:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by October 1, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, ]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see ]. For the Arbitration Committee, ''']''' (] • ] • ]) 08:33, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	: Thanks for letting me know, ]. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 10:37, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			:I have to be careful when discussing this editor as we have had conflicts in the past. It's not an accident that they happened across this draft deletion. I'm sure they will be reading this discussion, too.
			:I'll just say, thank you for addressing the mistake so quickly. All systems like bots have errors and the important element is to note when they happen and fix them promptly which it looks like you did. Thank you for your efforts to be responsive and for creating GalaxyBot. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:27, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – December 2024 ==
	I saw your note to the clerk, so I wanted you to know I'm finished presenting my evidence. Although I preserve the option make changes in the next 10 days, it's essentially complete. As you said yourself, for me it's all about the content. Beyond that, I can't discuss the specifics of the case. However, while arbitration is not to be taken lightly, it also presents a rare opportunity. If you have something to contribute that you think will help the encyclopedia, particularly the long-term health of the encyclopedia, please have at it. ] (]) 22:57, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			] from the past month (November 2024).
	: ], I'm not sure about the mysterious "I can't discuss the specifics of the case" but I think I got pretty up-to-speed over the summer on the current state of this debate. My point to ] was that the only ''evidence'' I could supply would concern incivility since the conversation about the history of articles and reliable sources is beyond my expertise. But I saw plenty of violations of AGF and NPA. But since you say this ARBCOM case is about content, then I'll just let the statement I made stand.<br>
	: But it is nice to hear from you, ]. I hope your case gets a fair hearing. It is a lot to sort through! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)<br>
	: P.S. Sorry to see that Ret.Prof deleted his account.
	::Just for purposes of clarification, ArbCom addressed only matters of conduct, not content. There have been repeated calls over the years for a content committee, but to date none such exist, and ArbCom most certainly is not it. It would be possible for ArbCom to in this case, as they have others in the past, request that the community make some effort to address content-related matters. When they do that, they tend to make the specific request of clarification or development of guidelines, and only once in a great while, like with one of the Macedonia arbitrations, call for respected editors independent of the case to offer a short term resolution of a content related dispute. And, honestly, I find the remarkably self-serving "it's all about content" line completely ridiculous, unless that refers to perhaps using content to advance a position. If it had been all about content, he wouldn't react as he has to me, In ictu oculi, and to an extent PiCo, when they propose changes which would make the content more consistent with policies and guidelines. Ignocrates has rather a long history of self-serving comments, though, and I guess that it would be more of a surprise to see that change than not to. ] (]) 00:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: More incivility and personal attacks, ]. I find it baffling that you can't see it despite many people pointing out your continued negativity towards ] and how over-the-top it is. You make so many worthwhile contributions but this is a huge, enormous blind spot.
	::: But ultimately, it doesn't matter what you, I or Ignocrates thinks, it'll be a team of Arbitrators sorting through all of the Diffs, passing judgment and coming up with solutions to this impasse. As I said to Ignocrates but I hope the case gets a fair hearing. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 00:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
			]
	::By "I can't discuss the specifics of the case", I only meant that I didn't want to bias your presentation of evidence in any way. Cheers. ] (]) 01:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Fair enough, ]. I thought it was due to some oath you had taken. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 01:36, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	== Whisperback ==
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			] '''Interface administrator changes'''
	{{wb|Kudpung}} 14:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			}}
			:] ]
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	== Ireland ==
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
	Are you Irish? Sorry for the question, feel free to '''not reply''' if you don't want to. <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 15:09, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
			|]
	: I'm partly Irish. My brother is there right now, in ], tracking down distant relatives. But like most Americans, my ancestry is a mixture of cultures. Why do you ask? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
			|]
	::Just because I saw your post at the WP Ireland talk page and just curiosity, I admire Irish people :D<span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 15:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
			}}
	:: Wow, ], I just noticed ]! Very impressive! I might use some of those. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:42, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
	::Go ahead and use them :D If oyu need one in particular just let me know and I'll be glad to do it or teach you how to do them by yourself. <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 15:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
	:::Here are two of my favorites! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)<br>
	<center>{{User:JuWiki/Userboxes in Userboxes}}{{User:The Raven's Apprentice/Userboxes/User UBX edible}}</center><br><br><br>
	::::What do you want me to do? <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 15:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
	::::: Well, nothing comes to mind at the moment! I'll let you know if I come up with any good ideas. Thanks for the offer! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
	::ok, No problem. <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> ]</sup></small></span>]]</span> 16:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	== Categories on "Africanization" ==
			* Following ], the ] has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the ] within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
	Greetings, You deleted ] from ]. I've responded with a comment and request for feedback at ]. TIA.--] (]) 07:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			* Following a ], a new speedy deletion criterion, ], has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.
			] '''Technical news'''
	: ], I removed all culture-based name articles from ] which contains articles about aspects of naming for human beings. Since ] concerns place names, I thought it was inappropriate to be included in this category which includes more abstract articles about human names such as ], ] and ]. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 12:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			* Technical volunteers can now register for the ], which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.
			] '''Arbitration'''
	::Thanks for the reply. Not arguing with your choice wrt this particular category, but for clarification, "Africanization" has been used as I understand it for personal names as well as place names - and beyond that to the staff composition of civil services following independence). That's a fairly wide usage, but observed and described in these contexts as Africanization. I reordered some of the page content under various headings which may make that clearer. Would defer to your judgement on catting but feel it's appropriate to somehow account for this range of usage.--] (]) 13:12, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			* The arbitration case '']'' (formerly titled '']'') has been closed.
			* An arbitration case titled '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
			----
	::: ], this sounds like a topic that is worth its own separate article, on Africanization of personal names. I'll look at the reordered article, as I might have missed this mention. Thank for addressing my concern! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
			{{center|{{flatlist|
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			}}}}<!--
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 16:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)</small>}}
			<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1259680487 -->
	== ''The Signpost'': 18 September 2013 ==		== Need help with editor's behavior ==
			Hey. You left some comments in ] in November 2024. That discussion was eventually archived and no actions were taken. However, that same editor wrote ] yesterday, which is once again targeted at me. Actions by administrators must be taken, because this has been going on for far too long. – ] 20:58, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
			:Hello, ],
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-09-18}}
			:That wasn't a polite edit summary, I'll admit, but why on Earth are you editing a draft that this editor created when you have a history of disputes with them? Stop looking at their contribution history and just keep distance between the two of you. I'm not going to sanction this editor for snapping at you when you came to a draft they created and were working on and chose to edit it, given the past history between you two. Don't monitor each other. Just work on your own projects. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:05, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 37-->
			::First of all, that draft was largely abandoned about five months. In addition, that draft is a WP:CFORK of multiple pages that have all that information. And I see that editor's contributions, because there are some pages on my watchlist that are sometimes edited by that particular editor. The "snapping" has been going on for more than a year and it all started when I tried to explain about WP:DATERET, which that editor ignored. So yes, I have a very good reason to look at history, because someone is getting away by constantly making personal attacks and breaking guidelines/policies. – ] 22:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 05:42, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0622 -->
			== ] ==
	== Grammar ==
	No, it wasn't you. I wasn't sure if it should be Liz' or Liz's or some other grammar style that I'm unaware of.--v/r - ]] 19:59, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
	: LOL! You know, technically, ], "Liz'" is probably grammatically correct but I've only seen people use "Liz's" so that's I'm used to. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 20:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
			I PRODded this article on November 26 and then the page creator proceeded to remove the PROD template, which led to the category for the proposed deletion being deleted (by you). What should I do here? ]] 23:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Wikidata weekly summary #76 ==
			:Hello, ],
			:I'm going to need more information here. The category for the day's proposed deletions (like ] for today) is deleted at the end of the UTC day when all tagged articles and files have either been deleted or de-PROD'd. It's a maintenance category and the day has passed. You must mean a different category. Can you provide a link to the category you are concerned about? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
			::] - basically, the article had a proposed deletion tag with mine and another editor's comments and they proceeded to remove it, and since they removed the template it also removed the category (which caused it to get deleted as empty). ]] 23:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::], once an article has been de-PROD'd, you can't PROD it again. A PROD happens only once. An editor removing the PROD tag doesn't need a good reason to remove the tag or offer any reason at all. You'll need to bring this article to ] if you are still seeking its deletion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Can the author of a page remove the PROD tag? ]] 01:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Anyone can remove a PROD tag, the article creator, a registered editor, a random IP editor. I think you are thinking of CSD Speedy deletion, for CSDs, the page creator can not remove a CSD tag. And no one can remove an AFD/RFD/CFD/etc. tag until the discussion is closed. I hope this clear things up. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::@] Personally, I only use PROD to see if a low quality, seemingly abandoned article is actually abandoned, or if it's on someones watchlist. ] ] ] 04:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::{{reply|Cutlass}} Prod is for deletions which are relatively uncontroversial–if anyone disagrees with the tag, then ''by definition'' the deletion is not uncontroversial. --] ] 06:52, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Muhabbat Gumshuda Meri ==
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
	]
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* ]/]
	** upcoming: UK Wikidata Training
	**
	** about the heady stuff of Wikidata
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
	** 30 percent of all items are categorized in 6 large groups (main type (GND) (P107)). Most are items about geographic features (1.7 million items), some of these already have coordinates (0.5 million). Items about persons are fairly frequent too (1.3 million), many already with gender (0.9 million), a few with DOB (0.05 million) or DOD (0.04 million). Other groups include: creative works (305,000), terms, organizations, and events.
	** The first 2 ] are elected, ] and ]. Please contact the email at the above page, and do not post requests onwiki. Two more candidates are running: ] and ].
	** ] to semi-automatically import labels, aliases and descriptions based on Misplaced Pages article introductions
	**
	** Commons is still scheduled to get interwiki links via Wikidata on Monday and can also be tested on test.wikidata.org
	* Did you know?
	** Newest properties: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
	* Development
	** Wikimedia Deutschland is looking for a to work on Wikidata among other things. Apply!
	** ]: Display the ID of an item or property page next to the label (])
	** ]: Fix value field not loading for some properties (])
	** ]: Work on supporting non-earth globes in the UI (])
	** Worked on quantity data type implementation in backend and frontend
	**
	** More work on sorting of references and qualifiers
	** Work on database schema modification functionality to be used by the query store
	** Prepare deployment for Wikimedia Commons (including improving script for populating sites table, adding support for Wikimedia Commons)
	** Work on making entity data available in the Mobile Wikibase skin
	** new Cirrus Search (Elastic Search) backend enabled on test.wikidata.org
	** Finished up cucumber tests for sitelinks
	** Hotfixes for coordinates autosummaries
	** Worked on simplifying process of defining wb.fetchedEntities
	** Finished working on wbeditentity
	** Worked on MySQL and SQLite table definition readers
	* Open Tasks for You
	** ] for a property.
	** ].
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 22:03, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0589 -->
			Seeking some direction on this deletion discussion. The main reference being argued for showing notability was discussed where even one of the keep votes suggested it needs additional consideration, and where there is clear consensus that it is not reliable. ] (]) 07:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Teahouse talkback: you've got messages! ==
			:I also did not want to taint the discussion but who voted keep is awaiting behavioral review at SPI. Was hoping they would have been blocked before the end of the discussion but SPI appears to be busy. --] (]) 07:47, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Hello, ],
			::I'm not sure what you are asking me to do here. Reconsider the ]? Even if Sunuraju is judged to be a sock, I don't know if they would be a sockmaster or a sockpuppet and that would affect whether or not their AFD argument was struck. I'm not going to judge evidence on an SPI when a checkuser has been requested and, unfortunately, SPI is usually backlogged. And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some open cases from October that haven't been closed yet! And Sunuraju wasn't identified as a sock in the first two instances of this SPI in November that were closed so it is far from clear whether they would be identified as a sock in the current open investigation.
			::But even if Sunuraju's AFD argument was struck (and it wasn't even an argument so I didn't give it any weight), then I still think there was enough support for a Keep of this article or, at the least, a No consensus closure and the Keep arguments relied on more than the Youlin Magazine reference. Are you considering taking this to ]? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:24, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Thanks for the reply, Liz. I am not asking based on the SOCK. I think I am mentioning it because of the SOCK activity that we see in these pages and don't want one of their keep votes to influence others to vote keep. The SPI was just re-opened which is a separate issue so please disregard me even mentioning it.
			:::I don't feel like wasting time with a deletion review. You made the best decision based on the information presented so not questioning why you closed it. I think that I should have at least left a comment prior to close about the discussion with Youlin not being considered reliable by the film taskforce. This could have possibly led to a no-consensus at the least but not sure. So no, I won't be at DRV as you made the decision based on the information presented. Maybe hoping you could turn it into a no-consensus based on the new information about the source being unreliable. If not, that is fine as well. Cheers! --] (]) 19:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
			==Currently empty category==
	{{Misplaced Pages:Teahouse/Teahouse talkback|WP:Teahouse/Questions|Scrutiny on new articles while bad, older articles are nurtured|ts=] ] 00:32, 21 September 2013 (UTC)}}
			Hi Liz,
			you put a speedy deletion tag on ] because it's currently empty. The problem is: I've detected that someone created ]. I then created this category according to the model of other already existing categories ''Peruvian companies established in yyyy'', and added the 2011 category to this new article. ''After'' this, another fellow wikipedian the new article from mainspace to draftspace where it's now awaiting revision: ]. So that emptied my category.
	== Thanks for the mention ==
			So what should I do? Wait whether the revision will be successful and then create my speedy-deleted category again? Remove the speedy deletion tag because I assume the new article will be moved to mainspace again soon?
	Hi Liz, thanks for citing me in ]. I won't contribute to your discussion there, for fear of making it too long :p but I totally agree with the issue you raised. <span title="Meta-Wiki profile" class="plainlinks"></span> <span title="Meta-Wiki talk" class="plainlinks"></span>] 05:45, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Well, <span title="Meta-Wiki profile" class="plainlinks"></span>, I think your discussion about deletionism was very important. If you look through Teahouse questions, you'll see the same question--new editors frustrated with speedy deletions of new articles--over and over again. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 13:28, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
			--] (]) 08:31, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	==Mountains Appalachian Trail CfD==
			:Hello, ],
	Thanks for informing me about this. --] (]) 21:20, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
	: No problem, ]. I can't believe it's already being revived and discussed after it was closed last week. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:25, 21 September 2013 (UTC)		:Empty categories are easy! You can only remove the CSD C1 speedy deletion tag from an empty category if it is no longer empty. We don't keep empty categories because they might be needed in the future. But here's the thing about CSD C1s...if the category is ever needed in the future, it can just be recreated! Either by an editor or you can go to the admin who deleted it or go to ] and ask that it be restored. No problem. So, don't worry about a category that you might need when your draft is in main space, the category might not be deleted yet but even if it is, poof! we'll just restore it. Sound good? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Sounds good! Thank you! (I also created a copy on my local PC, so I don't even need to bother an admin, though.) --] (]) 09:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
	== Header gaps ==
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | More than four hours after my last edit, I still have to smile at the "''poof!'' we'll just restore it". ] (]) 13:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			|}<!-- Template:The Barnstar of Good Humor -->
			== Question ==
	Hiyo. This is barely worth mentioning, but (afaik) there is no consensus on whether talkpage headers or article headers should have a gap underneath them. It's good to be consistent within each page, but otherwise it's best not to add or remove the gaps (as you did ). Some people prefer them for visual clarity when scanning the wikitext. Also, if we click the "New section" button, (as I've done for this message) then the software will automatically produce a header with a blankline underneath it. That's all, and again, no big deal. :) –] (]) 21:51, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for letting me know about your preference, ]. But if there is no consensus then I guess either way is correct, no? <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:24, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
	::It's not "my preference" at all. It's a lack of consensus in either direction. But the more important point is that the software adds these gaps in automatically, so they're endorsed at a certain software level. I would recommend that you not remove existing gaps, especially when an entire page uses them. HTH. –] (]) 22:32, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Okay, ], thanks for letting me know. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 10:27, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
			Hello Liz. I nominated the European Cricket League 2023 for deletion with the suggestion it could be merged with the overall league page. You kindly agreed with this and closed the AFD today. But I checked and the page is still there. I'm still quite new to this process so could you explain how the merging happens and do I need to do anything as the AFD nominator? Thanks for your time reading this. Best wishes.
	== Kate Winslet ==
			:Forgot to log in. It's still early here! The above is my question. Thanks again. ] (]) 11:31, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hi. I noticed you undid my removal of tabloid sources for contentious information on this article. On consideration, I have restored this edit. I made it in an admin capacity while enforcing ], so I'd be grateful if you could refrain from restoring it a second time. Could you instead take it ti article talk or (preferably) find better sources for this info? --] (]) 08:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Okay, ]. But I don't know how an Editor (me) is supposed to know when an edit is made "in an admin capacity" and when it is a normal edit. How are these special edits distinguished from others?
	: Plus, I thought that according to ], that the sequence goes, 1) Editor A makes an edit, 2) Editor B chooses to revert, then 3) Editor A goes to Talk Page to discuss the edit...not that Editor A re-reverts the edit. At least, I thought that was how Misplaced Pages was supposed to work based on what I've been told to do when someone reverted my edit. It's up to the original Editor A to go to the Talk Page and get consensus for their addition or deletion. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 10:24, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello again Liz. After lots of reading into page merging, I've made sure the relevant content has been included and set up a redirect. Hopefully I did it correctly. Anyway you can ignore my question now. Sorry to trouble you. All the best, ] (]) 15:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Thank you ==
			::Hello, ],
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			::No problem with asking questions although it can take me a while to respond. Who actually takes care of a merge is really up to whomever wants to take on the project or which editors if more than one person wants to be involved. The AFD closer only tags the pages, they don't handle the merge. Unfortunately, some merges can sit for a long time before an interested editor takes on the work. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Sweet Treat Award'''
	|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your continuing contributions at ], Cheers! <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 20:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
	|}
	: Thanks, ], I don't get many of these rewards. Maybe because I am often contrary! So, thank you very much. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
	::Your work is good, and appreciated, keep going! --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 21:30, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
	== A barnstar for you! ==		== You've got mail ==
			{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=] (]) 20:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			== Merge ==
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
	|-
			If AFD is not the place to seek a merge, what is a good place to seek a merge for that article? ] (]) 22:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I don't know which one to give you, but thanks for trying to help L'Odm :) ~] <sup>]</sup> 01:32, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:See ]. The process looks complicated but just follow the steps to set up a discussion on the article talk page and post the notices. Once the discussion is over, an uninvolved editor will close it for you.
			:If you have other questions about where to find information on this enormous project, I recommend visiting ]. I know a few things having edited for years but at the Teahouse, you'll find the combined knowledge of all of the editors who visit it to answer questions. It's more than I can help you with with my limited experience. Good luck. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Hi,
			::I had tried and waited over three days and never got a response.
			::That's why I did the AFD as it has a more public platform.
			::If I was to be honest, I feel like there should be a MFD but it has become inactive as of late and the project seems to be abandoned and if I could I would re-establish it but idk the proper procedures for it.
			::I'm new to merge discussions as a whole so I would appreciate some input. ] (]) 22:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::], what were the articles involved in this proposed merge? Maybe there is a related WikiProject where we can find interested editors. But three days is not a long time on this project, some Merge proposals are open for a month or two before they are closed. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::It was II Corps into the hatnote linked article which can be seen here:
			::::https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/II_Corps_(Grande_Arm%C3%A9e) ] (]) 22:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Guild of Copy Editors December 2024 Newsletter ==
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr">
			{| style="position: relative; margin-left: 2em; margin-right: 2em; padding: 0.5em 1em; background-color: #dfeff3; color: #000000"; border: 2px solid #bddff2; border-color: rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 ); border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 8px 8px 12px rgba( 0, 0, 0, 0.7 );"
			|<span style="font-size: 110%; color: #000000";>'''] December 2024 Newsletter'''</span>
			<div style="float:right; width: 75px; height: 60px;"></div>
			<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px;">]</div>
			<hr style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 );" />
			]
			Hello, and welcome to the December newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since September. If you no longer want this newsletter, you can unsubscribe at any time; see below. If you'd like to be notified of upcoming drives and blitzes, and other GOCE activities, the best method is to add our ] to your watchlist.
			'''Election news:''' The Guild's coordinators play an important role in the WikiProject, making sure <s>nearly</s> everything runs smoothly and on time. Editors in good standing (unblocked and without sanctions) are invited to ] (with their permission, of course) until 23:59 on 15 December (UTC). The voting phase begins at 00:01 on 16 December and runs until 23:59 on 31 December. Questions may be asked of candidates at any stage in the process. Elected coordinators will serve a six-month term from 1 January through 30 June.
			'''Drive:''' In our ], 67 editors signed up, 39 completed at least one copy edit, and between them they edited 682,696 words comprising 507 articles. Barnstars awarded are ].
			'''Blitz:''' The ] saw 16 editors sign-up, 15 of whom completed at least one copy edit. They edited 76,776 words comprising 35 articles. Barnstars awarded are ].
			'''Drive:''' In our ], 432,320 words in 151 articles were copy edited. Of the 54 users who signed up, 33 copy edited at least one article. Barnstars awarded are posted ].
			'''Blitz:''' The December Blitz will begin at 00:00 on 15 December (UTC) and will end on 21 December at 23:59. ]. Barnstars awarded will be posted ].
			'''Progress report:''' As of 22:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC), GOCE copy editors have completed 333 requests since 1 January, and the backlog of tagged articles stands at 2,401 articles.
			Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators, {{noping|Dhtwiki|Miniapolis|Mox Eden|Wracking}}.
			{{center
			| <small>To stop receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from ].</small>
			}}
	|}		|}
			</div>
	Wow, ], two "rewards" back-to-back! Thank you for noticing. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 01:42, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
			Message sent by ] using ] (]) 22:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC).
			<!-- Message sent by User:Baffle gab1978@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Mailing_List&oldid=1261391607 -->
			== Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Eric Edem Agbana ==
	== Creating categories ==
	Hi Liz
			Hello Liz, I will like to request the reversion of a deleted page, Eric Edem Agbana who has just being elected as a member of Parliament in the . He now qualifies for ] and ] ] (]) 12:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
	When you create categories, please can you check that they have a proper set of parent categories?
			:Hello, ],
			:It looks like you already got ] restored. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Liz for the win at ] ==
	I just reviewed some recent categories which you created, and found that they all lacked at least one parent:
			Looks like you're in. Like really in, top vote-getter at 81.16%. That astounding. I didn't make the cut, but that's fine, you've got a great group coming in with you. ] ] 00:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	*{{lc|LGBT scientists from India}} was parented only under ]. However, this category is an intersection of three attributes: Nationality (Indian), Occupation (scientists), and LGBT. There parent categories should locate it within the relevant category trees, so I added ] and ].
			:Hello, ],
	*{{lc|LGBT scientists from Hungary}} had the same problems as India
			:Wow, well, thanks for letting me know. I'm bummed that you didn't get in. I hope you will consider running again next year. I remember meeting you at the Misplaced Pages Conference in 2019 with "Katie" and I was looking forward to getting to work with you. I really admire you, putting yourself through a process you could expect would be adversarial. That shows grit. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	*{{lc|17th-century Japanese actors}} is an intersection of 3 attributes: era (17th c), nationality (Japanaese), and occupation (actors). It needs to be parented under categories which cover all those attributes, either individually or in pairs. You had categorised it under ] and {{cl|Japanese actors}}, both which were valid and correct; but that left it isolated from {{cl|17th century in Japan}}. So I added {{cl|17th-century Japanese people}}.
			::Thanks, that means a lot to me. I was looking forward to it as well, but this obviously isn't really a surprise. I'm sure the team you are coming in with can ferret out whatever it is that has been making the committee so apathetic lately, perhaps just the influx of perspectives and personalities will have the desired effect. ] ] 01:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	*{{lc|17th-century Spanish actors}} had the same prob as the Japanese ones
			*Congrats, well-deserved. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 00:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	*{{lc|Bangladeshi producers}} is an intersection of 2 attributes: nationality (Bangladeshi), and occupation (producers). It needs to be parented under both those attributes, but you placed it only under {{cl|Bangladeshi people by occupation}}, leaving it isolated from other producers. So I added {{cl|Producers by nationality}}.
			*Congrats! <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 00:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	*{{lc|Bangladeshi male voice actors}} is an intersection of 3 attributes: gender (male), nationality (Bangladeshi), and occupation (voice actors). You has categorised it under {{cl|Bangladeshi male actors}} and {{cl|Bangladeshi voice actors}}, leaving it isolated from other male voice actors. So I added {{cl|Male voice actors}}.
			:You're going to have to read your email more often now :-) ] ] 00:49, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	] explains some of this.
			::That is an understatement, ]. I think I have to create some new email accounts to handle the load. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Yeah, I funnel all ArbCom emails into a separate folder. In just under a year it has collected over 7,000 emails. I gatger that's a significant reduction on previous years! ] &#124; ] 11:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:congrats :) <span style="color:#507533">... ] * <small>he/they</small> * ]</span> 01:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Congrats.] (]) 01:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Liz - congratulations on your resounding win. It is clearly a sign that the community recognizes the many ways you've contributed to the project, both in your personal qualities and in the work you've done. If I may throw a word of caution out there - as an arb I found people less willing to extend me good faith than they did before. So I would suggest to the extent that you're going to continue your admin work around deletion that you follow the pledge you made at ANI not to close things early, something you've done a few times even since that thread (e.g. ]). Fortunately XfDCloser makes it easy to know when you're closing something early. You have some great new colleagues on the committee but if there are anyways I can be of assistance to you please don't hesitate to reach out. Best, ] (]) 01:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hope this helps. --] <small>] • (])</small> 12:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
			::Thank you, ], I think. You are sending a pretty mixed message. The AFD you highlight was closed 15 minutes early which I don't think is egregious. We have some NACs who close AFDs a day early. At this point, I have closed hundreds (thousands?) of AFDs so I wouldn't be surprised if I made a mistake on a few of them. And if you could spare a few hours a day to help out closing AFDs, your help would be welcomed there.
	: Thanks for the advice, ]. I recognize your substantial experience and while at times we might disagree on CfD decisions, I hope to always work within the guidelines of what is appropriate with categorization at Misplaced Pages.
	: I appreciate the corrections...it will help me learn to do a better job in the future! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 13:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)		::I know that I already have editors here who don't care for me (to put it mildly), I just assumed I'd gain a few more. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I agree with you that the 10 AfDs (from a review of the close of the AFD to Dec 2) and 2 PRODs (from the review of a single day) all were 30 minutes or less early which is one reason I hadn't said anything prior to now. But also people like me who don't close early can't possibly pitch in if others close early {{smiley}} (and thanks for the note about NACs happening a day wearly; I will try to spend some time watching for that as that is far more troubling). Best, ] (]) 02:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Congratulations, Liz. I am not surprised but I am pleased. ] (]) 02:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Congratulations on your election! — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Felicitations! -] (]) 02:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Congratulations Liz! - ] 03:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*AMAZING. Congratulations and well deserved. FWIW, 15m early is a non issue but you know I'm one of the guilty early closers. <small>But if I may make one minor suggestion, slightly more archiving? Currently choking my admittedly four year old computer.</small> ] ] 03:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	{{Whydidyoudothat}} ] (]) 13:43, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, dear ]! Believe it or not, I just archived all of the messages from September 2024 from this page, I thought having 2 months' worth of talk page messages was okay. Maybe I should reduce it to one month.
			:This election result was a surprise. It almost takes the sting away from my tumultuous RFA nine years ago. I try not to reflect too much on the past but, boy, that was a brutal experience. For any talk page stalker, running for ARBCOM is much less abrasive than having an RFA. So, consider that when November 2025 comes around next year and editors ask you to consider being a candidate. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Can confirm it's much speedier now. Perhaps my cache caught it at the wrong time or something more techy that I don't quite get. I don't think I'll have the on wiki time to ever be an Arb, but your feedback on process is reassuring. Congrats again! ] ] 00:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Let me add to the chorus and say congrats. <span class ="nowrap vcard"><b><span class="fn">]</span> &lt;]&bull;]&gt;</b></span> 08:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Adding my congratulations. I am not surprised by the result. ] (]) 11:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Congrats! ] (]) 12:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			* Congratulations and good luck. ] (]) 14:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			* Congratulations! ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 07:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			* Hearty congratulations! <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 12:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
	== about blocks and trolls and such ==		== Welcome to the 2025 Arbitration Committee ==
	Hi Liz. I notice you seem to have an interest in the fate of blocked or banned users. I watch a lot of pages relating to these processes as I am a fairly active admin, and I'm sure you have noticed that I participate in many discussions of these areas myself.
			{{Ivmbox|1=Congratulations on your success in the elections and welcome to the 2025 Arbitration Committee. This is the first part of your induction onto the Arbitration Committee.
	I have been active on WP for about six years now, have been an administrator for just over four years and an oversighter for about three years. I'm telling you this not to brag or pull rank, but to indicate that I have seen a ''lot'' of what Misplaced Pages has to offer. People who work on developing content in areas not rife with controversy get the best of it, and (contrary to what many believe) us janitors and behind-the-scenes folks get the worst. I've dealt with many trolls and vandals in my time, from school kids who insert obscenities into articles all the way up to folks with their own entry at ], and I,can tell you this with a high degree of confidence: LODM is not a new user at all. This is someone who has edited here before, probably under multiple past identities and who created this account knowing all along it would end up like this. They claim they are fighting censorship but they are really just trying to upset people. In other words, ].
			Please use the ] to indicate the email address you'd like to use for ArbCom and functionary business.
	Why, you may ask, would someone do that? I can't say I really know. Most people have a hard time understating such behavior, and as we are directed to assume good faith they assume such a person is just misunderstood or bad at communicating, or something like that. In many cases they are right, but not in this case. This is a user who, from practically their first edit and with virtually every edit they have made since, is deliberately trying to cause problems, not solve them. I imagine a research psychiatrist could write several books on these people if they cared to. What is it that makes them want to come to a website that exists to share free knowledge with the world and try to turn it into a circus? If we understood that we might have more effective ways of dealing with it than blocking, but we don't and blocking is pretty much all we have.
			Before you can be subscribed to any mailing lists or assigned CheckUser or Oversight permissions, you must sign the Wikimedia Foundation's ] and the VRT users confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information (L45). Please confirm that your username is listed on the ]. If isn't, and you haven't signed the agreements, please do this promptly and let me know when you have signed them. Instructions for signing can be found ]. Again, you must sign ''both'' agreements listed in the instructions. If you have signed but your username is not listed on the noticeboard, please let me know.
	If I had to guess I would say the reason this block has not been appealed yet is that LODM is already operating another account. Either that or they had their fun here and moved on to some other website. I think if you thoroughly examine their contributions, as I did when evaluating this situation yesterday, a picture will emerge of a user who is more concerned with posting pictures of genitalia in as many places as possible and discussing the various ways a person might stick their tongue up another persons posterior than in building an encyclopedia. I am strongly opposed to censorship myself, but what LODM was doing was not fighting censorship, it was premeditated disruption for purposes only they understand. ] (]) 23:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
			Over the coming days, you will receive a small number of emails as part of the induction process. Please carefully read them. If they are registration emails, please follow any instructions in them to finalise registration. You can contact me or any other arbitrator directly if you have difficulty with the induction process.
	: First, ], I appreciate you coming to my Talk Page and offering a thoughtful, considered reply. The response to comments like this that I make is typically dismissive, especially because I've only recently become an active Editor. So, thanks for that.
			Thank you for volunteering to serve on the committee. We very much look forward to introducing ourselves to you on the mailing list and to working with you this term.
	: Second, LODM never hid the fact that she/he used to edit under IPs. So did I, up until when I created this new account in July. So, I had no illusions that she/he was a brand new user.
			For the Arbitration Committee, ''']''' (<small>aka</small> ] '''·''' ] '''·''' ]) 01:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	: Third, I don't know if you saw my comments on AN/I but I was no fan of LODM. She/He could be downright stubborn, bull-headed and irritating. I don't think we ever had an exchange where we agreed on anything. We were not friends.
			:Hello, ],
	: What I objected to was the way these "community blocks" occur on AN and AN/I, these pile-ons that turn what was a simple request for an uninvolved Editor to have a word with LODM into a full-fledged, indefinite block. It is maddening to see some users with what seems like true harassment be ignored while a simple post asking for help turns into indefinite blocks for either the person accused or the accuser (or both). ] didn't come to AN/I in order to drive L'Origine off of Misplaced Pages, she/he came with a simple request and then page stalkers saw L'Origine as an odd-ball and, boom!, an indefinite block.
			:Thank you for the welcome. However, first I clearly have to set up some new email accounts for this new role since my personal email account is decidedly low volume. I just found out about the results two hours ago. It also seems like this message has an incorrect link. ] is a dead page that links to and I don't see a way to actually sign any document here on this page. Thank, in advance, for pointing me to the correct place to take care of these technical details. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Hey Liz, please use the "How to sign" link at the bottom, which can also be accessed here: ]. Please let me know if if there's anything else that'd be helpful. Thanks! ''']''' (<small>aka</small> ] '''·''' ] '''·''' ]) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::], this notice makes it sounds like it should be soooo easy but it took several tries to even get to the correct page. The first instruction should be "Log in". And then it took me to a general Phab ticket page. But the deed is done. But it would be great to update this notice with the correct link. Thanks again for the welcome! My email Inbox will never be the same. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::In case it helps I did some quick math and arbs sent only 7920 emails to the main ArbCom list in 2024 (down from 10410 in 2023, 10370 in 2022, and 12098 in 2021) (though data is somewhat incomplete for this year as the year is not yet over). {{Smiley}} ''']''' (<small>aka</small> ] '''·''' ] '''·''' ]) 18:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::], oh my Lord. I mean, I knew from my years as a clerk that there was a lot of email but I had no idea, numbers-wise, that it was in the thousands of messages. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::This is down. I bet we hit 20k emails in 2016. -- ] <sup>]</sup> 19:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::These numbers are only for the main ArbCom mailing list, and perhaps not all of it. There's also the -b and -c mailing list, the clerks mailing list, the functionaries mailing list, the global checkuser mailing list, the checkuser VRT queue, the oversight VRT queue, the COI/UPE VRT queue, and various direct emails that people will send you simply because you're an arb. I just looked through my own inbox, and I received 21,086 emails in 2021, and 22,433 in 2020. And people wonder why arbs don't edit much. – ] 19:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::Well, I'm glad I created a new AC email address. I might have to buy extra storage though. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ] ==
	: Not a one week block, not a one month block, not a 3 month block. An indefinite block. And a block made by ''your'' judgment of what "the community" wanted (when we are really talking about a dozen opinionated Editors, right?), a block made by community consensus which doesn't seem to have an obvious way to appeal (how do you address a community to be unblocked?). You get a handful of Editors to show up at AN/I and yell, "Off with her/his head!" and you can get just about anyone off Misplaced Pages.
			Liz, not sure you're going to have any time to look into this given your new responsibilities and all, but this user's AfD nomination pattern, communications in response to you, and contribution history tingles my Spidey sense like someone who's lowkey butthurt over the lack of Scott Pilgrim characters, or possibly an LTA account. I'm going to keep an eye out, but you see far more AfD's than I do. ] (]) 07:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	: I have no doubt that you are an experienced Admin and I hope that you do act with good intentions (AGF and all). But, I just want to let you know that, sometimes, the politely named "community consensus" looks, to a newcomer, to be capricious and random, with a lot of people who visit the noticeboard just to vote people off the island, so to speak.
			:Hello, ],
			:I already ] as I don't like to see brand new accounts nominating articles for AFD discussions. But I posted that remark in November and I'll see what they have been up to lately. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			== You have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee ==
	: It makes me understand why people have sock accounts after a block rather than grovel to be let back into the editing circle. After one has been banished, who is in a mood to say "I'm sorry, please forgive me?" So, what started out as a simple request to help with a confused Editor turns into an indefinite block and, probably, future accusations of socking. Wouldn't it have been less painful to simply address the problem that Charmlet had come to AN/I about?
			The Electoral Commission is pleased to announce that you have been appointed for a two-year term to the Arbitration Committee effective January 1, 2025. Congratulations on the appointment.
	: Now, you might be right, LODM could be a troll. Maybe you have keen and sophisticated "troll-dar" that comes from years of being an Admin. But suppose she/he ''wasn't''...well, that's another Editor who might have improved with help who got bounced off the website. I guess we differ on whether there was a justified consensus to take this action. And, in these cases, your opinion is more important than an ordinary Editor. That's just the way it is. But that doesn't mean I can't raise an objection when I think the process is unfair.
			On behalf of ElectCom: —] <span style="font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 14:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	: Again, thanks for coming here and explaining your action as an Admin. I do appreciate it, despite my disagreement with the action you took. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 00:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
	::FWIW, an indefinite block is not ''necessarily'' a permanent block, although, admittedly, in many or most cases it winds up being such. ] was blocked indefinitely (I hope you can see it) in 2007, but is active again today. And, in one recent case regarding ], regarding a minor edit in violation to a topic ban to, I think, a chart on the page, someone was blocked "indefinitely" until such time as he indicated he had been wrong to violate a topic ban he had been placed under, and then when he apologized the block was lifted. Indefinite blocks are, from what I've gathered, rather regularly appealed to ArbCom and others, and in at least quite a few cases, get lifted. Particularly if the editor involved is free to edit his user talk page, I don't know if that is the case here. Just FYI. ] (]) 21:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: ], I saw this discussion continuing on ] where I was informed that there actually isn't something called a "community block" that is different from a regular Admin block. For example, Bonkers the Clown was indefinitely blocked, via AN/I, through the same process and on the same day as L'Origine and, boom!, today, he is unblocked. So, it's a) not necessarily forever and b) not impossible to overturn if the individual demonstrates that they won't continue their disruptive behavior. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:07, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Eeww! Congrats. Now you are even lamer and with more power! ] (]) 16:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	Pardon my intrusion into this dialogue. If you guys really care about the fate of blocked/banned users, could you two take an independent look into the {{u|BruceGrubb}} case? From my perspective as a completely uninvolved editor, I still have a bad taste in my mouth about this sordid affair a year and a half later. Imho, this was a classic case of ]. ] (]) 01:07, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			::I wouldn’t call it “lame” @]; but congratulations @]. ]<sup>]</sup> 20:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::] ] (]) 20:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{+1}} Congratulations, Liz! ] (]) 22:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Thank you for all of the congratulations. Yes, and I'm so lame that it has actually swung back around to being hip. You wait long enough and even workholic, rule-followers who post Welcome notices can become fashionable. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	: Hi, ]. Considering my lack of success persuading Admins '''not''' to block Editors, I think any action I would take would backfire. Regards, <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 02:08, 26 September 2013 (UTC)		:Thank you for the official notice, ] and for all of the work that you and your fellow Electoral Commissioners did to have such a smooth election in 2024 with timely results. It sounds like it was a big change from last year, in a very positive way, thanks to this year's Scrutineers. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Some changes for sure. I think the biggest changes that made coordinating easier was all the automation I implemented a few years back. Automated watchlist notices, automated status headers, automated mass message templates, and so forth. I'd like to think that's made coordinating ACE much easier over the years. :-) —] <span style="font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 03:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	::I understand. I just wish someone would lance this boil. Compared to my little problems, the controversy surrounding the ] is ugly beyond belief. Cheers. ] (]) 03:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
	::: Let me guess, ]...it pits those who believe Jesus Christ is a myth against those who believe he is a real, historical figure? I would ''not'' like to mediate that dispute. It's remarkable how unChristian some people become when their religious or atheist views are challenged. Lots and lots of heat generated and blood drawn, but nothing resolved. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)		:::], our technologically gifted editors have made so many changes, tools and innovations that have helped out the rest of us in visible and less visible ways. I know that the committee isn't "pro-active", looking for problems to resolve, but if there is anything I can ever do to assist editors in receiving cooperation from the development team at WMF, let me (or us) know. Of course, I can't make any promises but I've been hearing about problems for years now and it would be nice if some assistance could be provided to you all. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			:I also came here to say congratulations, Liz! Your responses to editors in difficulty at the various admin boards have always struck me as some of the calmest, most thoughtful and helpful comments there, and this election is well deserved. ] (]) 03:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thank you, ]. Unless there are just blatant violations occurring, I believe in deescalating conflict. Often, two editors in a dispute have gotten themselves in a "me vs. you" situation that makes one person a winner and the other a loser. It's much better to get other editors participating in a discussion so that a consensus can be determined so the disagreement becomes less personal. We have lost a lot of talented editors who got themselves into a feud that they just couldn't let go of. It's interesting how often difficulties becomes less about policies and guidelines and more about getting along with other editors who have different opinions from your own. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
			Liz, count me amongst those who are very heartened to see you take up a position on the committee. Without intended commentary on the other worthy candidates and electees, I have to say that your election to the post is, for this community member, the best news to come out of the election. I am confidently of the opinion that this community and project are about to face some of our most consequential developments, decisions, tests, and times, and knowing that you will be in such a central position to interpret and shape policy and to influence the collective community discussion and voice is a bright spot at the end of a year that has at times been largely defined by worry about both the immediate and the near future. I was confident of your success in the election and I'm even more confident of the benefit that will accrue to us in having elected you. '']]'' 06:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Indef blocks data ==
			:Thank you, ], for your vote of confidence. But while I think the committee may help interpret policy by judging when it has been violated, I think it's debatable that they actually shape policy. I don't think that's seen as a role for the committee by the community although it might happen indirectly. I am a bit concerned about my daily routine as I've seen editors and admins who join the committee become less and less active on the project as editors and I currently have a very busy schedule. But if I have to cut back on those activities for two years, I guess that's just a price that I'll need to pay. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
	I just lost interest in it, or rather I wasn't that interested in it initially. The raw data comes from the ], which are still being generated. '''''<font color="#FF0000">]</font>''''' 09:32, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			::Well, I largely agree with you that this is how the division of authority should work, and was originally meant to work, but let's be honest: it hasn't been that way for a long time. To take just one example from relatively recently, the last ArbCom decided it was within their authority to take such a monumental decision as to not only ban all non-registered users from editing articles in contentious topics, but indeed to ban them from even supplying perspectives on the talk pages of such articles. Rather than putting the issue to community. That's not just "shaping" policy: that's creating policy whole cloth for the entire project, via fiat.
	: Thanks, '''''<font color="#FF0000">]</font>'''''. I guess you need significant knowledge of coding to get this raw data into a manageable form to analyze? I don't have a background in programming. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			::And apparently the larger community is just willing to let the kind of assumption of authority go unchallenged, because there was not the kind of pushback I would have expected. In that case, acceptance may have been bootstrapped by the populairty of such a move with a once small but growing (though in my opinion, ill-conceived) movement to lock down access to the editorial process more and more, especially with respect to those who choose not to (or cannot) register. But even if that's the case, it's clear that my perspective is somewhat out of step with the broader community, because I would have expected more people to oppose that kind of over-reaching of a dozen-ish users setting policy for the entire project on principle. Even if they liked that particular idea. But there was barely a squeak.
	::The way I did it was extremely messy, but I don't know anything about the proper way. I would regenerate the data based on a more recent database dump, but the format of the dumps has changed and I'd have to rewrite the program. You might well be able to find someone who can generate this data for you. ] maybe. '''''<font color="#FF0000">]</font>''''' 22:14, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			::So yeah, ArbComs power is arguably at its zenith right now. I would argue that if the consensus norms that govern this project's core functions are going to survive, we're coming up on a time when we are going to have to set some institutional limitations and clear rules on the scope of ArbComs authority, because through rulings like that, ArbCom has slowly absorbed more and more power into its remit for, frankly, decades now. It honestly bears a striking resemblance to how the Supreme Court of the U.S. established its role in the early decades following the establishment of the nation. Thankfully for democracy in that nation, jurists in that body and outside forces eventually saw the need to pause the growth of the court's powers and to adopt the much lauded (if somewhat mythologized) "checks and balances" era of governance.
	::: Yeah, I've since learned that there were pitfalls when I chose to focus on qualitative research rather than quantitative research in my degree work. More stats classes and I could probably figure out this myself.
			::But it remains to be seen if ArbCom itself will eventually develop a sitting body of Arbs and a culture willing to self-restrain itself in that way--or in the alternative, when, if ever, the community at large will step in to better define the limits of the committee's authority. Food for thought, anyway! In the meantime, ArbCom really does have massive potential to shape policy, for better or worse, and what we should hope for so long as that is the case, is that such authority should at least be in steady and contemplative hands. That is one of the major reasons I am very happy to see you take a position in the body. '']]'' 06:38, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	::: Thanks for the information, much appreciated! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			Ugh. It's hard to imagine a more thankless job, but somebody has to do it I guess. Congratulations! ~] <small>(])</small> 19:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Commons ==
			:That's kind of what happened, ]. I find my current round of routine editing tasks really enjoyable but I thought that after 11 years as an editor, I should really help out with some more serious work on the project, to help out with the "less fun" activities and ARBCOM is at the top of that list, along with going through an editor's entire contribution history looking for copyright problems and reviewing unblock requests. So, on to consider some of those "intractable" disputes. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Just adding my congratulations to the congratulations pile. Congratulations! ] ''<span style="font-size:small; vertical-align:top;">]</span>''·''<span style="font-size:small; vertical-align:bottom;">]</span>'' 19:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
	I am requesting a rename on Commons. My current Commons name is Newjerseyliz. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
			If you have any questions about CheckUser/SPI/functionary stuff, you can send me an email anytime. The mailing lists are pretty helpful, too. ] (]) 06:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	== ''The Signpost'': 25 September 2013 ==
			== LameNerd ==
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-09-23}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 38-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 05:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0625 -->
			has a nice ring. I think I'll change my user name! ] (]) 16:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Funny you should say that... ==
			:To be honest, ], anything is better than your former name which was unpronounceable. By the way, anyone who devotes their free time to work on an online encyclopedia for free is a lame nerd so you're in good company. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	I've just had a little word about needing references if he/she is going to launch it out of user space, and about FAKEARTICLE if it isn't launched. (I've also suggested deciding on the subject's gender...) ] (]) 21:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
			::1) Thanks. 2) Too true. ] (]) 23:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	: Well, ], when I went to look at the page you were talking about, I just assumed it was an article and put a <nowiki>{{refimprove}}</nowiki> tag on it. Usually people put articles they are working on in their Sandbox so I'm not sure what is up here. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
	::Self promo, I think. I've already deleted an earlier version. He/she's getting a chance to do something with it - but I'm watching like a s****-hawk. That's how I knew you'd been there - and that someone had changed a cat from actor to actress (I've now removed all but one of the cats - shouldn't be there in userspace, but I'd missed that before). If nothing in the way of refs appear, and there's no sign of launching, I'll MfD it as FAKEARTICLE. ] (]) 22:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
			:::I have the hardest time tracking down templates that I want to use. Right now, I'm looking for the one that advises blocked editors that they have lost talk page access and need to use UTRS. It's not in ], can you tell me where to find it? You do so much work on UTRS, I'm hoping you know. I've looked for it multiple times and have never been able to locate it. Thanks. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	::: I try to remove content categories from User Pages when I come across them but not when the Editor is working on an article and the categories relate to the subject in their Sandbox. Then, I think deleting them would come across as hostile and, for all I know, the article will be moved to Misplaced Pages space and then the categories would be valid. But mostly, I find content categories on User Pages of either new or inactive Editors so they are justified.<br>
			::::] Among the block templates. ] ] (]) 07:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	::: Have a pleasant weekend! ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:28, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
			:::::(sigh) (I do wish we'd always lay on a block notice when blocking) ] (]) 08:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::Thanks, ], so I should have looked in ]? ] says it's for a temporary block but I guess there are parameters I can change to make it indicate an indefinite block. Before seeing your message, I found a copy of the template on a different editor's user talk page and copied it over. Not all of the information is accurate for this block but at least this notice gives a link to UTRS which is what I wanted. Thanks for pointing these out to me. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:56, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::And, yes, I get frustrated by admins who block without posting a notice on the user talk page explaining why an editor is blocked and how they can appeal the block. It's just so unnecesary if you just use Twinkle to block an editor. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::Misplaced Pages has become too labyrinthine even for experienced users. ] (]) 13:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Question about editing the source assessment table in ] ==
	== Wikidata weekly summary #77 ==
			Hi Liz, I'd like to ask if it's okay if I edited the source assessment table in my initial post with the updated sources I added to the AfD. My assumption was that everything above the relisting line should be left alone, but I feel like my most recent argument addresses all of the issues others have brought up so far. Thanks for the help! ] (]) 00:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
			:Hello, ],
	]
			:I think it would be okay for you to edit a source assessment table that you created but please note this fact by putting a note like "Updated by ], December 9/10 (depending on where you live)", knowing that this last part can be replaced by your signature, <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. This note that the table has been updated will hopefully cause participants to review it again. This updating it much better than posting yet another table. Thank you for checking in about this. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	<div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.''</div>
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	* ]/]
	** upcoming: UK Wikidata Training
	** ]
	**
	**
	* Other Noteworthy Stuff
	** Denny's last day on the development team was today. He has a few closing remarks in .
	**
	** ]
	** ]
	**
	** ]
	** - please spread the word
	* Did you know?
	** Newest properties: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
	* Development
	** Said Good Bye to Denny - *sob*
	** Improved layout for commons sitelink table
	** More work on sorting
	** Worked on statements UI tests
	** Fixed failing QUnit tests
	** Deployed new code and updated sites for Commons deployment
	** Fixed a number of small bugs
	** Code review for Google Summer of Code student projects
	** Work to automate creating deployment branches and builds of Wikibase with its dependencies
	* Open Tasks for You
	** ] for a property.
	** Build a bot for one of the ].
	** ].
	** Hack on one of .
	</div>
	<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' &middot; ] &middot; ] 23:20, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0593 -->
			== ] ==
	== Category:Songs written by Jason Blume ==
			FYI I've undone your deletion of ], which didn't even remotely qualify for G13. Did you mean to use a different speedy deletion criterion or something? ] ] 05:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	Richhoncho, who created the category, voted "delete" in the CFD, so I tagged the category for G7. That's what happened there. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> • <sup>(])</sup> 14:31, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
	: Okay, <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> • <sup>(])</sup>, thanks for letting me know. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:17, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
			:You're right, ] wasn't eligible for CSD G13 today. I often have pages/tabs open and this draft would have been eligible but I didn't notice that the article had been recently edited. I'll remove my talk page notice on the user page of the draft creator. I've deleted so many of these expiring drafts and after six months of inactivity, it's very unusual to see editing in the hours right before the expired deletion time. But I'll be more careful.
			:Did this draft pop up on your "mistaken deletions" report? I use to review that to see if any pages I deleted appeared on it but I've lost the page title. I appreciate you catching this one. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			:: Yeah. It popped up there. It's ]. You appear a few other times there but all but one of them are false positives. ] ] 05:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Interesting ] (]) 08:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	== 666! ==		== Email sent ==
			{{You've got mail|sig=] (]) 11:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	As one of a highly select international group, you are hereby invited to join me in celebrating (Let the games begin!) ] (]) 11:17, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for the invitation, ]! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 14:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
			== Sorry ==
	== October 2013 AFC Backlog elimination drive ==
			{{notice|image=Face-smile.svg|
			{{center|<big>'''Someone has poured you ].'''</big>}}|small=yes}}
	<div style="border: 2px solid #484898; background: #FFF; background-color:#98FB98; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 90%">
	<div style="border-bottom: 2px dotted #484898">'''WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive'''</div>
	]
	] is holding a '''one month long''' Backlog Elimination Drive!<br />
	The goal of this drive is to '''eliminate''' the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from October 1st, 2013 – October 31st, 2013.
			I was up for way too long when I had written what I did and I am sorry. I hope you can also understand given my age. Thank you for your query, I understand now that you were just trying to look out for the best interests of the site. Again, I am really sorry and hope we can turn a new leaf. :)
	Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.<br />
	There is a backlog of over {{Rounddown|{{formatnum:{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Pending AfC submissions}}|R}}|-2}} articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the ] and help out!
			] 17:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	A new version of our ] is released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the ]. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. --]]<small>]</small></div>
			== 2025 Arbitration Committee ==
	<small>This newsletter was delivered on behalf of ] by ] (]) 15:36, 30 September 2013 (UTC)</small>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0628 -->
	==Not yet==
	I haven't begun the draft, but that is the raw selection. <b>]]<font color="#00b">]</font></b> 17:08, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks, <b>]]<font color="#00b">]</font></b>! Don't worry, I won't breathe a word. ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
			The Arbitration Committee welcomes the following new and returning members following their ]. Their two-year terms formally begin on 1 January 2025:
	== FYI ==
			* {{userlinks|CaptainEek}}
	was just perusing an/i (yeah, i'm that bored) and noticed you used the term "Indian-Canadian". Solely in the assumed spirit of everyone 'round here wanting to be better informed, it's "Indo-Canadian". (For the record i am the latter but not the former). Peice Owt.
			* {{userlinks|Daniel}}
	] (]) 20:44, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
			* {{userlinks|Elli}}
	: Sorry, ], but my choice of Canada was rather random. I didn't want to use "Indian-American" and I'm not sure what you call a person who is Indian and British. So, Canada was their third country that came to mind. <br>
			* {{userlinks|KrakatoaKatie}}
	: Thanks for the correction though, now I know better. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:42, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
			* {{userlinks|Liz}}
			* {{userlinks|ScottishFinnishRadish}}
			* {{userlinks|Theleekycauldron}}
			* {{userlinks|Worm That Turned}}
			The one-year terms of these members also begin on 1 January 2025:
	== Wikimedia NYC Meetup! Saturday October 5 ==
			* {{userlinks|Primefac}}
			Upon meeting the Wikimedia Foundation's ] and signing ], all incoming members ] subscribed to ], assigned the CheckUser and Oversight permissions for use in office, and given access to the CheckUser and Oversight queues on the ].
	{| style="background-color: #E0FFFF; border: 1px solid #0000FF;"
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Please join the ''']''' on October 5, 2013! <BR>Everyone gather at '''Jefferson Market Library''' to further Misplaced Pages's '''local outreach'''<BR>for '''education''', '''museums''', '''libraries''' and planning '''WikiConference USA'''.<BR>--] (]) 21:34, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
	|}
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0630 -->
			We also thank our outgoing colleagues, whose terms end on 31 December 2024:
	== WikiCup 2013 September newsletter ==
			* {{userlinks|Firefly}}
			* {{userlinks|Guerillero}}
			* {{userlinks|L235}}
			* {{userlinks|Moneytrees}}
			Outgoing members are eligible to retain the CheckUser and Oversight permissions, to remain active on cases accepted before their term ended, and to remain subscribed to the ] and ] mailing lists following their terms on the Arbitration Committee. To that effect:
	In 30 days, we will know the identity of our 2013 WikiCup champion. {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Cwmhiraeth}} currently leads; if that lead is held, she will become the first person to have won the WikiCup twice. {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Sasata}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Hawkeye7}}—who has never participated in the competition before—and {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant4|Casliber}} follow. The majority of points in this round have come from a mix of good articles and bonus points. This final round is seeing contributions to a number of highly important topics; recent submissions include ] (FA by Casliber), ] (GA by Hawkeye7), ], and ] (both GAs by Sasata).
			* Stewards are requested to remove the permission(s) noted from the following outgoing members, who have not chosen to retain them, after 31 December 2024:
			*: CheckUser: Firefly, L235
			*: Oversight: Firefly, Guerillero, L235, Moneytrees
			* Outgoing members are eligible to remain active on cases opened before their term ended if they wish. That will be noted on the proposed decision talk page of affected case(s).
			* All outgoing members will remain subscribed to the functionaries' mailing list.
			* All outgoing members will be unsubscribed from the ''clerks-l'' mailing list, with the exception of Firefly, Guerillero, and Moneytrees, who have chosen to remain subscribed.
			On behalf of the Committee, ] (]) 02:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	The did you know (DYK) ] have recently changed, meaning that newly passed good articles are accepted as "new" for did you know purposes. However, in the interests of not changing the WikiCup rules mid-competition, please note that only articles eligible for DYK under the old system (that is, newly created articles or 5x expansions) will be eligible for points in this year's WikiCup. We do, however, have time to discuss how this new system will work for next year's competition; a discussion will be opened in due course. On that note, ''']''' on changes you'd like to see for next year. What worked? What didn't work? What would you like to see more of? What would you like to see less of? All Wikipedians, new or old, are also warmly invited to ''']'''.
			: Discuss this at: '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard|2025 Arbitration Committee}}'''<!-- ] (]) 02:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC) --><!--Template:hes-->
			== Wow, just wow! ==
	If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on ]. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on ], and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from ].</small> ] (] • ]) and ] (] • ]) 22:36, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0631 -->
			Thank you for reading this section (now archived to history). There is one sentiment which I would very much like to remain:
	== Ebionites 3 Evidence ==
			<font color="red">M</font><font color="green">e</font><font color="red">r</font><font color="green">r</font><font color="red">y</font> <font color="green">C</font><font color="red">h</font><font color="green">r</font><font color="red">i</font><font color="green">s</font><font color="red">t</font><font color="green">m</font><font color="red">a</font><font color="green">s</font>
	Hi Liz, I see you decided to contribute to the Evidence page after all. I'm glad you weighed in with a view of what happened on your talk page, and I'm also glad you said something about what John Carter did to Ret.Prof.
			God bless you for all you do here. ] (]) 11:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	One of the things you noted in Evidence is how few actual edits to articles John Carter has made. I have looked into this in detail and plan to discuss it in the Workshop. If a contribution to article content is defined as a least one complete sentence supported by at least one reliably sourced reference, here is John Carter's last contribution to sourced article content: . On September 16, 2010, he created the Modern Ebionites section of the ] article. Other than about a half-dozen pages of bibliographies (lists of references) created on or around Oct. 29, 2010 that is all. After Oct. 2010 there is not even a single sentence added to article pages in 3 years. This is relevant to Smeat75's point about John Carter's lack of understanding of reliable sources. How can someone who edits so little have so much to say on article talk pages about what everyone else should be doing regarding the proper use of sources? It will be interesting to see what other editors have to say about this in the Workshop. ] (]) 22:43, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Well, ], I won't pass judgment on your or his level of knowledge about the subject. My observation was purely from hanging out on the article Talk Pages and noting that John seemed to want the power of veto but he never followed up on your repeated requests that he contribute to the article by supplying other references. This seemed unusual because I do know that John edits other articles. My guess, purely speculative, is that he didn't want the kind of scrutiny he leveled at you to be laid on his contributions. I know that usually people who are judgmental are hardest on themselves. <br>
	: This is simply my own observation, ], but you have the advantage because, in general, you have remained civil and, as this dispute has continued, you stopped personalizing it and made it about the content. I urge you to continue taking the high road throughout the arbitration process. Refrain from reacting to provocative comments and just dispassionately present the facts as you see them. Since I know John has my Talk Page on his watchlist, I'd give him the same advice. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
			To respond to your edit summary, this comment by Yngvaddottir (03:31, 19 November 2024) is worth repeating:
	:Another interesting point related to the above is that John Carter claimed on the ] talk page that he recused himself from editing because of accusations of bias. When I called him out on this, he either could not or refused to produce any evidence of these accusations. However, in the process of digging for the diff I showed you above, I found these two: , . In these posts to project talk pages, John Carter claims he was accused of falsifying sources, not bias. I would like to know more specifics about this incident, as it may be relevant to the Workshop. ] (]) 22:51, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
	:: Again, my advice above. In my view, less is more, you have strong points, you don't need to pile it on. This hearing is not an attempt to seek some kind of revenge but to clarify a dispute. You don't need to detail every misstep, just present your strongest evidence and answer any additional questions the Abitrators pose to you. My 2 cents. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:14, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::Well said, thanks. ] (]) 01:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
			{{talkquote|ArbCom is also en.wiki's primary defence against the WMF, which also does great damage to the projects with its overreach and its misplaced priorities.}}
	== Your mention of “sports“ at WP:AN ==
	Hello, Liz! I just wanted to remark that the statistics collected on those user pages that are up for deletion were not about sports AFAICT: rather, it seems, a form of ] for circulating banknotes, a hobby that’s unlikely to be the subject of extensive articles.—]]] 01:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
	: ]]], I'll have to think a little harder to figure out "AFAICT", not sure what that stands for. But the pages I looked at looked like sports teams' rosters and the outcome of conference matches. But I just spot-checked 6 or 7 pages on that long, long list. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 01:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
	::Sorry: “As Far As I Can Tell”. I only looked at a couple of those pages myself–a case of the blind men & the elephant, I suppose.—]]] 07:48, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
			== Congratulations ==
	==Notice of External links noticeboard discussion==
	Hello, Liz. This message is being sent to inform you that a discussion at ] is taking place regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ELN-notice--> Thank you. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			Congratulations on your election to the Arbitration Committee. ] (]) 16:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Whisperback ==
			== Suspicions...A "Category" abuse case? ==
	{{wb|Kudpung}} 23:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
			Hi L., I noted you put up a "Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Portuguese all-female bands" and posted a notice on user Kjell Knudde's Talk page. I am posting this having found you by tracing back from a number of quite odd categories recently added in bulk to the "Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" page, e.g., . Many of these categories seem pretty dubious, and many of them were started by users that have been blocked (potentially all just one user?). I am suspicious of the situation for one, for another, a Category like "Comics about anthropomorphic deer and moose" seems a waste of time, and for another, I rather object to bloating down articles with excessive Categories. I don't quite know how to proceed, so I ask for your second opinion. This general situation seems like it might be a problem, or perhaps it is all on the up and up. It smells like the time I looked up ] and noted it stated dryly that the drink had been invented by Ernest Borgnine, that is, something that seems all on the up and up, but is in fact vandalism. Thanks! (I am just a writer...not a Misplaced Pages expert...) ] (]) 16:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Whisperback ==
			:Hello, ],
			:First, any time you refer to a page on the project, please provide an active link to it so it can be easily checked. Otherwise, I have to cut and paste, go to the search bar and I'm still not sure if I end up on the page you are talking about.
			:Second, I'm not sure what your question to me is. You seems to have some kind of suspicions but I'm not following your comments. If you are concerned about an individual category, then mention that category, what the problem is and a link to it. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:20, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks for the reply; sorry I was not clear. I have a broad suspicion that there is an malicious (?) effort to add Categories and so bloat up articles or for some other nefarious purpose. I noticed this with the recent additions of a large number of Categories by this article , and that many of the categories added had been started by users (or perhaps only a single user?) that are now blocked. User ] seems to be vigorously adding Categories to articles, in what seems to be a "sole purpose" manner, and irrespective of what seems me to be the dubious nature of many of the categories. I may be way off base in all this, but I came to you only because I saw you had posted on ] talk page about deleting one such category. As I noted, many of these categories don't seem me to have much sense or merit to them. I know of no way of ascertaining whether the problem is real, or what to do about it, whereas you seem to know what you are doing. I'll let the matter drop here; I don't have an axe to grind here (other than being somewhat annoyed at an overload of Categories on at least one article, viz. ]). Best regards, ] (]) 01:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::If you look at Kjell Knudde's user talk page, you'll see a number of messages to them about their misuse of categories. But this editor has been active for 16 years now and has over 100K edits, I don't think that this is anything malicious or "nefarious", I just don't think they fully understand how categories and subcategories work. This is really not that unusual, we have had a number of editors who don't seem to "get" how categories function as an organization tool. As for the notice I left, one of my regular tasks on the project is tagging empty categories so I post messages like that on a daily basis.
			:::Overcategorization is an ongoing problem on this project in general but I can't see how it benefits any one on- or off-Misplaced Pages to add unnecessary categories. If you feel that any categorization they have done is problematic, I'd approach them on their talk page to discuss it or you can remove them from an article or category. Right now, I don't see a need to escalate things to a noticeboard-level discussion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Thanks for checking! I've regularly run across things that did not look quite right, but on further inspection turned out to be that seemingly-innocent-looking vandalism. It has given me a hint of paranoia... Happy Holidays! ] (]) 12:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 12 December 2024 ==
	{{wb|Kudpung}} 00:11, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-12}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 17, manually published--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 21:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC) </div></div>
	== Errrrrrrrr. G'day! ==
			<!-- Message sent by User:Bri@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1262352523 -->
	I've replied. Cheers, ] (]) 15:49, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for letting me know, ]! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 15:55, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	::No worries. As I've often said: '']'', and one of the reasons I enjoy communicating with you is because I like "the Way That You Do It". ] (]) 16:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::a) "Talkback" b) It's nearly 2am here - past time to "retire'. Cheers, ] (]) 16:13, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::: Goodnight, ]! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:18, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	''P.S. Regarding , see the first sentence of ]. (Or am I missing something?) Anyway - bedtime! ] (]) 16:27, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Yes, you are right, ], there they are. They aren't very prominent though. I've looked over this page a dozen times and never noticed those links. So, thanks for pointing them out to me. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	::Yes, I agree with what you say, because I had to expend some effort to find them, and I knew what I was looking for, and I knew they were there ... somewhere. ] (]) 16:58, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	::: Go.to.bed, ]! ;-) See you when the sun come up down under. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 17:11, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
	== Whisperback ==		== 390,612 bytes ==
			*A paltry shadow compared with {{ping|EEng}}'s. (860,094).
	{{wb|Kudpung}} 08:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
			*Wouldn't you like to archive?
			*😜
			] (]) 13:09, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Well, I just archived messages from September 2024 about a week ago, I thought that would help with the size. But you're not the first person to mention this recently so I'll archive October messages this weekend. This talk page gets a lot of traffic though and it can take me a while to notice some messages in the middle of the page and respond so I like to keep at least a month's worth of messages up. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Overdue reply ==
	==Disambiguation link notification for October 4==
			I haven't been very active editing lately. Regarding , I did jump the gun there and I believe I had reverted my edits by the time you replied. Thanks. ] (]) 21:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			:Hello, ],
			:Oh, well, thanks for letting me know. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Early close ==
	It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 12:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
			Hi Liz, are you willing to do an early delete for this AFD (])? Every contributor has went for a '''delete'''. ] (]) 02:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Teenly ==
			:Hello, ],
	I've been crying after reading that talk page and her contributions both the articles and other pages. I find it difficult to believe that she was as young as is stated but even if she was three times that age, well, what she had to offer was amazing. Life just isn't fair sometimes. - ] (]) 20:24, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
			:I understand the request but I don't feel comfortable closing an AFD after it has been open only a few hours unless it qualifies for a Speedy Keep. But if the discussion continues like this, the article will clearly be deleted, if not now than soon. I know that there are other closers who wouldn't hesitate like I'm doing. Do you think it would qualify for a ]? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	: I'm not sure how you came across my question about Teenly, ], you must have that Departed Wikipedians page on your Watchlist. Yes, it's hard to believe that a 6 year old was actually editing on WP and communicating with others. But her User Talk Page doesn't read like a hoax. And, in my years on Twitter, I'm pretty familiar with accounts that pretend to be sick children. This doesn't sound like those.
			::Very understandable. To answer the question, the author themself said that the article probably doesn't meet GNG in the AFD, so it could go under criteria A7. I would also just invoke ] personally, but hey, I'm not the admin here. ] (]) 06:18, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	: If you found her Page moving, read the note that mentioned her passing at ] ...I think any Editor would tear up after receiving a note like that on their Talk Page. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 21:32, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
	::Yes, the Departed page is watchlisted from the time when Tito Dutta was improving it earlier this year. I agree that Teenly is not a hoax. She was clearly a very gifted child, and I've known a couple. I just find it very upsetting: what we've lost and what she gave. I don't usually get too bothered about deaths or about children but reading of and around this particular one hurts. It seems that I have a heart after all but it is preventing me from editing right now, so I'm going to sign off for a bit. - ] (]) 21:43, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
	::: Well, it's a surprise to me that WP brought a small child pleasure but with what she was dealing with, I'm glad it could provide a little distraction from her illness. Take care, <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 23:55, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
	== ''The Signpost'': 02 October 2013 ==		== A global request ==
			Hello Liz, I address you to this ] from today. It is the second request. The former ] from Nov 19, 2024 was declined. '''I have not done anything wrong.'''<br>
			An additional information is ]. The essay is exist also in ]. I would suggest that as a member in the AC, you would decline the user from editing in the En WP. Thank you, <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I'm sorry that this editor is so focused on you (for unknown reasons) but our jurisdiction is the English Misplaced Pages and I have no influence on the Hebrew Misplaced Pages. Their request was rightly denied (no local admins can globally block an editor). I hope you let me know if another request happens on Meta. I also have no influence there but I can at least leave a comment on Meta while I do not have the ability to communicate in the Hebrew language on that project.
			:As for the Arbitration Committee, I don't join the committee until January. It does include some additional privileges and many new responsibilities but I can't arbitrarily block an editor for what they are doing on another project. But if they violate their Interaction ban on the English Misplaced Pages, inform me or open a case on ]. I hope you can put this editor out of your mind and focus on productive editing. You don't want to let them take up residence in your head. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Dominic3203 and user sandboxes ==
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-10-02}}
			{{u|Dominic3203}} has run Citation bot on ] along with many other user sandboxes. I thought he understood after the ] that he wasn't supposed to run the bot on user pages without asking. Could you have a word with him about this? Thanks. ] (]) 18:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 39-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
			:@] I am really sorry about that. I thought the category doesn't involve anyone's sandbox, but the bot have done it anyway… ] (]) 03:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	* ''']'''
			::Sounds like ] has heard you, loud and clear. I do know other editors who run Citation bot but, Dominic3203, if you could give ] some space and be considerate about other editors' User space, it would be appreciated. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 00:43, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0634 -->
	== A cupcake for you! ==		== A cupcake for you! ==
Line 1,352:		Line 1,416:
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"		{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]		|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Congrats on the new ArbCom badge, Liz :) &mdash;&nbsp;Benison <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 19:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I know I'm going to make you fat but just the same :-) I wanted to acknowledge your astute and succinct contributions to the Ebonites3 ArbCom evidence page. Its important to have uninvolved editors step in and give their perspective. OK.......... now eat your cupcake!! <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 21:03, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
	|}		|}
			:Thanks, ]. It's appreciated! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	Wow, thanks, ], it's appreciated. I wish I could remember how I ended up on the edge of this fierce dispute since I have no opinion about subject. I hesitated to get involved at ARBCOM because I'm more of a witness to a fight than an involved party (and this fight has lasted six years!). I've made a few comments on the Workshop page until I saw how many ideas were being put on the table and I think the Arbs need to sort this out themselves.
			==New message from TheWikiToby==
	But I appreciate you noticing! Have a great week! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:34, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
			{{talkback|User talk:TheWikiToby|User:Salah talah/Sample page|ts=20:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)}}
			] (]) 20:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Seasons Greetings!==
	==Talkback (Ks0stm)==
	{{talkback|Ks0stm|Manning sanctions in Sexology?|ts=19:47, 7 October 2013 (UTC)}}
	] <sup>(]•]•]•])</sup> 19:47, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
			<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#00A86B; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">]]{{-}}
	== Thanks! ==
			{{white|{{big|'''''Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Misplaced Pages in 2024! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2025! ♦ ] 09:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)'''''}}}}
			</div>
			:Thank you, ]. I'm not quite in the Christmas spirit yet but the signs are that it is happening pretty soon. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I've been playing along to Christmas songs on piano and guitar and doing my own jazzy arrangements the last few days, I suspect that's why I am! :-) ♦ ] 19:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Matt Deitsch ==
	{{Talkback|WWB Too|Hobby Lobby|ts = 23:25, 8 October 2013 (UTC)}}
			Was there a deletion discussion for Matt Deitsch? I know I don't own the article but I would have liked to comment on it as I created it {{P|grin}} ] ] 02:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Why don't you run for admin ==
			:Hello, ],
			:Please provide me with a link to the deleted page and then I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			::{{tpw}} ]. Expired ]. ] (]) 06:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Thank you, ]. Article restored. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			== A request to block an user ==
	Greetings Liz, I saw your comments at Jimbo's page and was wondering why you don't run for RFA. Your editing history seems to support that you would do well. ] (]) 01:36, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
			Hello, I'm ], one of the editor on Misplaced Pages. I hear that you are one of the admins on Misplaced Pages, so I want to ask you for help. In the few months before, the article ] had an user name ] was vandalism the article so many. Since the ], there was no third place match. But he always edited the third and the fourth ranking on the ], which lead to many user have to reverted the article many times. He always said that the reason was he used it from the AFC website, although there was no source about it. I have already gave him a warning for this, but he said threatly for me and always said by using CAPSLOCK to tell many user when they said to him politely. I think this user not only used incorrectly sources but he also one of the dangerous user that threaten anyone. So this message today is can you help me block this user please? Because if anyone warning to him about it, he will not change and still violated to them. Thank you for reading this message. Hope you have a good time during this week. ] (]) 07:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	: That's flattering, ], thanks. But I have some strikes against me:
			:Please read ]. This is not a good look. Hey man im josh gave sage advice when you asked him this exact same question. I suggest you take it. ] (]) 12:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	* Though my first Misplaced Pages account was registered in 2007, I was a sporadic Editor until July of this year. I doubt that I'd get credit for all of my edits under my other accounts (including my IP account) and there seems to be a 12 month minimum for consistent editing.
	* I'm interested in the processes of how Misplaced Pages runs smoothly, assessing consensus, examining policies, voicing unpopular opinions that should be heard, dispute resolution. I don't see my forte as content creation and that's, pretty much, a basic requirement for all successful RfA. Lots of GAs, FAs and DYKs are often emphasized.
	* They now require extended "tours of duty" (2 or 3 months) in a variety of areas (AfD, AfC, Vandalism, NPP, etc.) and I'd rather find something I'm good at and stick with that (along with regular Wikignome activities) then round out my resume just for the sake of an acceptable future RfA.
	* Plus, I've looked at the editing stats of long-time Admins. Doing Admin grunt work, putting out fires, checking unblock requests, requests for help, and the like, seems to consume all of the time that Admins used to spend working on the encyclopedia. It's like being an engineer and getting promoted to be a manager and finding that instead of doing creative work, all of your time is spent filling out paperwork and attending meetings. Yes, you get these powerful tools, but it looks like much of Admin work is borderline unpleasant and they are constantly criticized, no matter what they do. Yeah, sign me right up! ;-)
	So, for all of these reasons, I don't think I'd do very well in an RfA and I'm not sure that Admin work is the kind of work I wanted to spend hours doing. But, again, I do appreciate your encouragement! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 02:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
	:You are right that usually 12 months of consistent editing and some experience in deletion/vandalism/etc. is typically a must for an admin candidate. But there are actually a number of admins who spend a lot of time writing content, like Wehwalt, Casliber, Jimfbleak, etc., so if you do become an admin you can always keep that up. ] (]) 03:43, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
	:: Good to know, ]. Unless my circumstances change (that is, I can unpack my library!), I don't see myself creating a lot of serious content, which is really needed right now in the sociology area. The limitations of a small apartment and not having an office any longer, everything is boxed up, especially bulky reference books. But, luckily, there are always a lot of other necessary tasks that need to be done! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 20:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
	== Reference desk ==		== Un renard pour vous ! ==
	Hi Liz, I am not sure if there are any admins or other well-meaning editors who 'police' the reference desk, sorry I can't really help here :( ]] 17:40, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Well, ], you can help me if you'll indulge me in one more question: Have you seen disputes concerning the Reference Desks (regarding users, incidents or policies) posted to AN or AN/I in your tenure here at Misplaced Pages? I'm just wondering if that's where a discussion like this would happen. Thanks for your assistance! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
	::Yes, there have certainly been dispute about the RD posted at ANI - but if you're seeking more guidance then I'd try AN. ]] 18:20, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
	::: Right now, it's just an observation, ]. But now I'll search the AN and AN/I archives and see if it is an issue that has come up before. Thanks again. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
			]
	== Changes to Wael Hallaq ==
			liz
	Dear Liz,
			] (]) 15:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	I submit the following for your consideration. First, as I explained recently to Flyer22 on her talk page:
			<br style="clear: both;"/>
			:Thank you, ]. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			::you're welcome, Good luck. ] (]) 08:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Challenging a deletion review ==
	1) the identification "non-Muslim Arab" in the opening sentence, though true, has the effect of stereotyping Wael Hallaq and his academic contributions. Although the fact that he is a non-Muslim and an Arab may be of interest to some readers, stating the fact at the outset gives it undue precedence; this wrong emphasis is a disservice to the living subject of the article and to the reader, and, as I have said, comes off as a an attempt to stereotype. Imagine, for example, if the article on Reza Aslan opened with "Reza Aslan is a non-Christian Persian," or the article on Muhammad Ali opened with "Muhammad Ali is a non-Christian African."
	2) For the above reason, I chose to remove "non-Muslim Arab" (which, along with its citation, had been added by another editor), and to insert the term "non-Muslim" into the third sentence of the second paragraph. In this way, the fact may be known to those who, for whatever reason, deem it important, but not in such an essentializing and stereotyping manner. As for "Arab," so much should be evident through the combination of his name and birthplace; it need not be stated at the outset as a defining characteristic--the effect, again, is stereotyping.
			Hi Liz, I think there's been a mistake with a deletion review regarding ]. Ever since I posted the new sources on the AfD after the discussion was relisted, all of the subsequent votes have been either keep or a striking of a deletion, but the closing admin marked it as a delete instead. How can I challenge this result, and would it be appropriate to do so? Thanks! ] (]) 18:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	Second, I continue to disagree that the phrase "is a prominent scholar" requires citation, and here is the argument I presented to Flyer 22 for the same:
			:I saw the deletion review page and followed the steps accordingly. I hope I did everything correctly? ] (]) 18:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	3) As for my choice of the word "prominent" to replace "non-Muslim Arab," this is not POV requiring citation. The facts related in the article are eloquent testimony to Wael Hallaq's prominence in Islamic Studies: three decades in the academic field, two highly-sought-after and influential professorships, nine authored volumes, and some sixty other publications are evidence enough of prominence in an academic field. Prominence is not proven by citing a text which links the subject to the word "prominent;" rather, it is evidenced by the subject's many and influential accomplishments and publications. Scholars and students in the field of Islamic Legal Studies--my own area of study, authorship, and teaching--know the name Wael Hallaq very well.
			:Hello, ],
	Finally, I understand the concern you expressed as "Removing sourced material," as the opening "non-Muslim Arab" was indeed cited, and the citation removed when I removed the opening phrase.
			:Well, I'd advise you to either approach ] and ask them to unclose the Deletion review or start up a second DRV to review the new closure. But you should first go to ] with your questions before opening up a new deletion review if that is what you choose to do. You should always initiate a discussion first with an AFD closer before starting up a review of a discussion closure. Sometimes, this can lead to an adjusted closure decision or change in a closure statement but it's also considered polite to inform the closer that you have some questions about how this AFD discussion was closed. Considering how divisive this discussion was and the history of this article, these questions shouldn't be a surprise. After having closed hundreds of AFD discussions, there are some that you just know will end up at DRV and no matter how this one was closed, it was easy to see that any closure with this article would be contested. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I see you posted your second message while I was typing up my response but I still hope you will follow my advice. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I see, thank you for your advice. What should I do now? Is there anything that I could improve? ] (]) 19:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::In addition, if the close decision is endorsed, would it be okay to recreate the article using the new sources I found? I'm still confused by how a deletion review can be endorsed due to bad behavior even though I dug up new sources that demonstrate notability and significant coverage. ] (]) 19:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Hello, ],
			::::First, slow down! Do not create a new version of an article deleted through an AFD if that closure is being reviewed at ]. What if that closure is overturned and the article is restored, then you'll have two articles existing on the same subject. So, be patient, and see how the DRV is closed.
			::::Second, if the second AFD closure is endorsed and the article is kept deleted, the proper approach is to create a new draft version in Draft space and submit it to ] for review. Do not move it back to the main space of the project or it can be tagged for speedy deletion CSD G4 as a recreated article of an article deleted through an AFD decision. The only way I know to overcome an AFD Delete closure is to work on a new article in Draft space and see if an AFC reviewer will approve it. This takes time but there really is no quick way to overcome an AFD Delete closure. So, in your DRV statement, put your best foot/argument forward on why the closer overlooked some important information or didn't take some factor into account and then wait for some senior editors to assess your argument. Do not make your argument personal and DO NOT CANVASS a deletion review, this will just backfire on you. The editors who regularly participate in deletion reviews are fair and knowledgeable about policy. Having some new accounts pop up on an obscure Deletion review page will not help your cause as this isn't a vote count or a numbers game but an assessment by experienced editors on whether or not this closure was appropriate given the arguments that were presented.
			::::The typical results coming out of a Deletion review are "Endorse" the closure, "Overturn" the closure, "Relist" the AFD discussion for another week or "Allow recreation" of the article in Draft space. Deletion reviews typically run one week but can be closed early if there is a ] which means that there is one outcome that all participants are arguing in favor of. I hope this helps you understand the process better. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::I'm sorry. I'm new to all this and I can't help but feel nervous that I'm doing something wrong. I felt so proud to have done all the research last week only for the discussion to be closed as a delete without warning, so I'm left thinking that I did something wrong, especially since most Wikipedians aren't very patient with my mistakes (unlike you, so thank you very much for your kindness). I'm hoping that I'd be able to at least be able to rewrite it as a draft because I do think that the discussion was closed prematurely. ] (]) 19:53, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Pandas Talk Page ==
	Seeking resolution to this persistent rolling back of my edits, I will do the following:
	1) I will remove "non-Muslim Arab" for the stereotyping reasons outlined above
	2) Despite my continuing disagreement, I will not replace it with anything (i.e., I will not insert "prominent" or any other descriptor)
	3) I will retain the citation, and move it to the term "non-Muslim" which now occurs in the second paragraph, deemphasizing the fact so as to avoid stereotyping
			Hello Liz. I’m not wiki literate yet so please forgive me for struggling with the wiki protocol.
	Regards,
	] (]) 17:41, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
			I am trying to query an edit on the PANDAs (medical condition) page and I’m finding some of the language used by the original poster to be inflammatory and out of date.
	: That sounds perfectly reasonable, ]. Note that these guidelines about language like "well-known", "accomplished", "top-ranked", "most important", "the best", "spectacular", etc. are applied to all profiles and are actually a big problem on articles about entertainers (actors and singers). It's not a standard that is being unjustly applied to this article alone. It's a constant battle on Misplaced Pages against superlative language.
	: As for ]'s prominence, you don't have to find a reference that specifically uses that word. It can be any reference (from a reliable source) to his importance as a scholar that you can find. One source you could cite, for example, is any prominent award or honor he has received or if holds an endowed chair for his professorship. That would demonstrate his prominence.
	: I think Misplaced Pages has a particularly high bar for academics...there are many scholars who I think should be listed on Misplaced Pages but there are Editors who evaluate academics and they can't have a ''regular'' record of teaching and publishing, they have demonstrate they are ''exceptional'' or notable outside of their academic discipline. Since most academics spend the their time on research and don't seek out media attention or publicity, this is a difficult standard to meet.
	: I'm glad we could come to a compromise you can live with at the moment. Note that if these edits are challenged by others, we'll need to move this conversation to the article Talk Page. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:08, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
			I’ve tried to discuss on the talk page and am now seeking a “second eye” for the edit.
	== ''The Signpost'': 09 October 2013 ==
			The specific edit revolves around the removal of “controversial” to a more nuanced “emerging medical knowledge” and I have posted links to recent publications such as that by the APA.
	<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-10-09}}
	</div><!--Volume 9, Issue 40-->
	<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
	* ''']'''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ] (]) 13:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
	</div>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0639 -->
			I can across your page whilst searching for dispute
	== Editor Survey December 2011 ==
			resolution and you seemed the friendliest page out of some that seemed designed to keep out new posters! Please do redirect me if I am not following the correct protocol. I feel very passionately about the topic and want to ensure I am doing all I can for the clarification. ] (]) 19:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	I just came across this pdf file. What is particularly interesting is Section III (pg. 18) about how Editors feel about the Misplaced Pages Community and interactions with Admins and other Editors. It dispels some common misconceptions and reveals other interesting facts. Also, in demographics, 25% of those responding were under 21 years of age, most were male, single and had no children. I imagine parents, especially of young children, have little time to devote to editing. <br>
			:Hello, ],
	Of course, all of the regular disclaimers apply, this was not a randomly selected group of Editors, those who are willing to take time to respond to a survey request are those individuals who tend to be more satisfied with the process. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 19:56, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
			:I do not edit in articles about medical topics. There is a much stricter rule about sourcing requirements which you can read about at ]. It seems like you are already having a constructive discussion on the article talk page where you outline your opinions and arguments. But, especially with articles on medical conditions, Misplaced Pages only uses the highest quality secondary sources so these other sources you bring up might not be acceptable at this stage.
			:I think the editors you are discussing PANDAs with have a much deeper knowledge about MEDRS than I do and it would be best to heed their advice. Content disputes on Misplaced Pages are resolved through the process of reaching a consensus opinion based on ] so I can not go in and "overrule" them especially when they seem familiar with the literature on this subject and I am not. You can try going to ] to get an editor who could facilitate a discussion on this disagreement. But know that medical knowledge can change over time and perhaps Misplaced Pages can adjust its language as more accepted studies are published in the future. But if mainstream scientific literature calls a condition "controversial", then that is the language that we must use as well. Misplaced Pages doesn't aspire to be "cutting edge" but to reflect the mainstream scientific perspective and is especially conservative when it comes with articles on medicine, medical subjects and treatment options. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:12, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Moriya Almkiass ==
	English Misplaced Pages at a glance August 2013
			Hello Liz, I would like to write an article about Mrs. ]. She is a Deaf Israeli woman, who serves the news of the {{ill|The Israel Deaf Sports Organization|he|ארגון הספורט של החרשים בישראל}} (Asach).<ref></ref><ref></ref> She is professional and signs perfectly. She is fluent, stares at the camers, smiles and is not confused. Mr. Bar Vanunu, who is a professional Hearing interpreter, to the video: "Extra Excellent". Michael Kadosh, who is a Deaf sportsman and is shown in the video, is married to ].
	{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 90%;" border="2" cellpadding="4" background: #f9f9f9;
	|- align="center"
			She is married to Mr. Shafir Hafif, a Deaf goalkeeper of the {{ill|Ashdod Dolphins|he|דולפיני אשדוד}}, who plays vs Hearing teams, as well as in the {{ill|Deaf Champions League|he|ליגת האלופות לחירשים באירופה}} games. She also participated the ] contest in South Africa when she was single.
	! style="background:#B0C4DE;" | Stat
			{{reflist}} <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 00:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	! style="background:#B0C4DE;" | Data
	! style="background:#B0C4DE;" | Yearly Change
			:Hello, ],
	! style="background:#B0C4DE;" | Monthly Change
			:Well, you definitely don't need anyone's permission to work on a draft article. Go ahead and give it a shot! Good luck. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thank you so much. {{tl|subst:submit}} has been placed. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 19:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			== New pages patrol January 2025 Backlog drive ==
			{| style="border: 2px solid #36c; border-radius: 4px; background: linear-gradient(to right, #ffffff, #eaf3ff); padding: 10px; color: #000;"
			| style="vertical-align: middle; font-size: 130%" | ] | <span style="font-size: 85%">''']''' </span>
			| rowspan=3 | ]
	|-		|-
			|
	| Page Views per Month
			* On 1 January 2025, a one-month backlog drive for new pages patrol will begin in hopes of addressing the growing backlog.
	| 9,985,326,806
			* Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled.
	| --
			* Each article review will earn 1 point, while each redirect review will earn 0.2 points.
	| --
			* ] will be given out based on consistently hitting point thresholds for each week of the drive.
			* Barnstars will also be granted for ] previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive.
			* Interested in taking part? ''']'''.
	|-		|-
			|colspan=2 style="font-size:85%; padding-top:15px;"|You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself ]
	| Article Count
			|}
	| 4,382,898
			] (]) 01:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	| +8%
			<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers/Newsletter_list&oldid=1263150419 -->
	| +1%
			== Followed your advice but the rewritten article was nominated for speedy deletion ==
			Hi Liz, I’m sorry to bother you about this, but I followed your advice above on rewriting the ] article as a draft and sending it through AfC, but someone has tagged it as a speedy delete regardless. Did I do something wrong? What can I do? ] (]) 15:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:I'm the one who tagged it. I did not retain the original article so I cannot tell the extent to which what you have is a rewrite, but as I said elsewhere, just click the link to contest the speedy deletion and an admin will compare your version to the deleted one. If they are indeed substantially different, then speedy deletion will be declined. Nothing more to that. If the articles are the same, it will go, if they are different, it will not be speedy deleted.{{pb}}As to what you did wrong: well I would say this was all a bit hasty. I gave you advice on your talk page as to how you might demonstrate notability, and keeping the article in draft for now would have been better. We could all have helped, and also identified continued issues. By submitting it at once for AfC, you have an article back in mainspace even before the deletion review is closed. Even if speedy deletion is declined, this could find itself back at AfD very quickly. It is better off in draft, which is a safe space to incubate the article. But that's up to you. ] (]) 15:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			::When I was writing the draft, it said that AfC could take 8 weeks, so I figured I should submit it now and continue to edit it. I didn’t expect it to be accepted so quickly. I didn’t mean to do it in a haste. I was just following directions. ] (]) 16:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			::And you can check the edit history to see the progression of the article. ] (]) 16:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I have restored this new passed draft, but have not been party previously so I believe this might best be settled by the discussion already at DRV. ] (]) 18:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Andrei Polgar ==
			Greetings, the ] even before I could post my rationale. There are many reliable sources that has in-depth coverage about the person which clearly meets WP:SIGCOV such as or etc.
			I strongly believe the article is salvageable so can you please be kind enough to re-open the Afd to have a more clear consensus? Thank you. ] (]) 19:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:I'm reluctant to reopen this AFD because the discussion had already been relisted twice and you were the only participant who was arguing to Keep this article. Another editor reviewed the sources and found them not to be adequate.
			:I am willing to restore this article to Draft or your User space if you wanted to continue to work on it. Please know that since this article was deleted through an AFD discussion, you won't be able to move it back to the main space of the project or it will be tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G4. But, when you believe it is "ready", you can submit it to ] for an editor to review. Let me know if this option is acceptable to you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:28, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Alright, please do and thank you again. ] (]) 18:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Quick note regarding AN discussion on AfD closures that you may be interested in ==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding AfD closure timing.&nbsp;The thread is ]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--> — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Thanks for letting me know. I haven't had time to check the noticeboards lately. Seems like some of the folks with the strongest opinions are editors/admins who don't close discussions themselves or even participate in deletion discussions. We could use a little more help in AFDLand especially at some hours of the day/night, both for participants and closers. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Celerity BBS page ==
			Liz, you removed a page a couple of weeks ago for Celerity BBS which I have involvement in. This is primarily a pre-WWW software product, but copies of it are extant and more references and details can be provided. Can you please restore it so I can improve the article? ] (]) 17:04, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],,
			:You'll need to provide me with a link to the page so I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			::https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Celerity_BBS (]) ] (]) 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::@] {{non-admin comment}} Since this was an expired prod, you can request undeletion at ]. <span class ="nowrap vcard"><b><span class="fn">]</span> &lt;]&bull;]&gt;</b></span> 02:40, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Thank you, I will try there. ] (]) 19:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::{{tick}} Restored there. <span style="font-family:Segoe Script">]</span><span style="font-size:115%">]</span> 20:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Could you take a look at this page? ==
			I'm not sure what to do about ]. It doesn't meet CSD but it is an autobiographical article by a user who is circumventing the AfC process. Already a version of this article has been draftified, but the user then just moved their sandbox into mainspace. I tagged it and removed one blatantly promotional statement but I'm not sure what else should be done in this case. ] (]) 21:03, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:This article has been tagged for speedy deletion, CSD A7, as an article on a non-notable person. This is often what happens with autobiographical articles that are unfortunately moved into main space. I'm not going to delete it myself, I'd rather let another admin review it but if it is still around at the end of the day, I'll probably take action here. You have to be careful with CSD A7s as this criteria only applies to a limited range of subjects but these are outlined at ]. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Yeah, someone else tagged it for A7 after I commented. I figured since there are sources, A7 doesn't apply. I figure it might not survive AfD but that is also a more laborsome step than is needed. I have left a few messages on their talk page, including a warning for logged-out editing and may take them to ANI if they persist since they are being rather disruptive and possibly showing ] behavior. ] (]) 21:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Hello, ],
			:::It turns out that they were a sockpuppet of blocked account ] so I was able to delete their pages right away as CSD G5s. They make it so easy when they don't really change their username. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Yeah. Found a sandbox from the old account too that I just tagged with G11. Might keep an eye on the pages they created in case they need to be salted. ] (]) 21:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Can YT verified links be used for references? ==
			Hi, just reviewing ] where I find many ] (published by '']'' YT channel - verified) tagged as references.
			Even as per ] where videos from verified accounts can be considered, is it necessary to keep the ]? This is the only issue I'm facing right now and I need your help for clarification. Thanks. ☮️Counter-Strike:Mention 269🕉️<sup>(] ● ] ● ])</sup> 04:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Happy Holidays Liz ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
	| New Articles per Day
			----
	| 869
			'''Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
	| --
			] (]) 07:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
	| --
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
			|} ] (]) 07:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ] ==
			Hi Liz, could you restore ] so it can have a deletion discussion? I think he may be notable. Best, ] (]) 15:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Seasonal greetings :) ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
	| Edits per Month
			----
	| 2,915,395
			'''Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
	| -16%
			&mdash;&nbsp;Benison <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
	| +2%
	|-
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
	| Active Editors
			|}<span id="Benison:1734890677749:User_talkFTTCLNLiz" class="FTTCmt">&mdash;&nbsp;Benison <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</span>
	| 30,941
	| -6%
			== Season's Greetings ==
	| +0%
	|-
			<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#F6F0F7; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">]]]{{Center|]}}
	| Very Active Editors
			'''Hello Liz:''' Enjoy the ''']'''&#32;and ''']''' if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, ] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> (]) 06:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	| 3,156
			]{{paragraph break}}
	| -8%
			</div>
	| -0%
			<div style="padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 1em; font-size: 88%; font-style: italic">Spread the WikiLove; use {{tls|Season's Greetings}} to send this message</div>{{-}}
	|-
	| New Editors
			== Happy holidays! ==
	| 5,986
	| -9%
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;" role="presentation"
	| -1%
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
	|-
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Happy holidays and a prosperous 2025!'''
	| Speakers
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]<br>This is a picture of ]
	| 1,500,000,000
	| --
	| --
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |
	| Editors per Million Speakers
			Liz, the amount of work you do for Misplaced Pages is staggering, and you do it with your signature empathy, kindness, without sacrificing any quality. You are always welcome on my talk page with your category questions. I love them because I normally learn something myself :) You didn't get NYB-esque numbers at ] for nothing, and I really look forward to working with you as a clerk during the term! Best to you and yours in the new year, and happy holidays! <b>]]</b>&nbsp;(]&nbsp;•&nbsp;he/they) 06:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	| 21
	| --
	| --
	|}		|}
			*Hello, ],
	Page views: 9,985 million/month = 333 million/day = 13.9 million/hour = 231 thousand/minute = 3.9 thousand/second
			:Those words just touch my heart. I think that is the sweetest thing that has ever been posted on this page. You know the work keeps me busy, fills my day with purpose, but there is a reason why about 50% of my edits are to User talk pages. Most are just formal notices but I also like to check in with other editors, either when I have questions or if I see them struggling. And I know on Misplaced Pages, we prize the project over the people but I don't think I'd still be editing after 11 years if I hadn't encountered so many genuinely good-hearted and well-intentioned people of which I count you. Have a wonderful holiday, however you celebrate the end-of-the-year festivities. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Creatio company page ==
	]
			Hi Liz,
	== Encyclopedia ==
	Hi I was just wondering if contributing to the encyclopedia itself ever interested you? What sort of topics interest you? ♦ ] 09:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
			Thank you for your contribution to the Wiki. On October 9, you deleted the Creatio company page (]) , which had been there for many years. This page was handy for everyone who is interested in the Creatio company and its products.
	: Well, ], 51.70% of my edits are to the Misplaced Pages article space so I do work on the encyclopedia itself. All sorts of topics interest me, I try to fix problems, especially regarding references, tables and categories, when I come across them...small improvements that help articles.
	: But I imagine you aren't talking about merely edits but content creation itself. After seeing so many newly created articles quickly deleted, the idea of putting a lot work into writing which is then erased, well, that is completely unappealing to me. I also don't see a lot of value in creating a lot of random stub articles which, by and large, are never expanded by other Editors, just for the sake of article creation. They typically don't provide much information and are just placeholders.
	: It's been interesting to me to see so many unreferenced, badly written, older articles that currently exist on Misplaced Pages and then see such a high bar set for newly created articles. I'm not saying that bad articles should be accepted, just that standards have changed a lot on Misplaced Pages regarding article creation and now a lot of articles that could improve over time are simply being deleted.
	: At least, that is my perception of what is occurring. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 12:51, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
			Creatio is a worldwide company with a $1.2B valuation and a presence in 25 countries. The company is a leader in the market and well-known among different analytic agencies (we have a lot of mentions from Gartner, Forrester, Nuclear, etc.). The company's products are a new era of CRM software with no code, and they are transforming the market. Outsystems, Mendix, Appian, and many other companies from this market have pages on Wiki, but in this case, you decided to delete the page.
	:::Agreed, a massive cleanup job is needed on here and it's difficult to know where to start, and shoddy new articles which go under the radar are adding to the cleanup job and workload. I just didn't recognize your name which if you're a veteran here that strikes me as odd.♦ ] 14:42, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::: Well, I first registered in 2007 as ] but I made most of my edits logged out, as an IP. My most recent IP account seems like it is static as it only contains my edits if you check Contributions. But all I did was fix typos that I saw or run-on sentences, I didn't know much about formatting or how Misplaced Pages was organized.
	:::: I decided to become more active last summer and my first comments in the Wiki space reflect my confusion and frustration over where to find information on how Wiki operates and how to edit. Now that I know my way around, it seems obvious but back in July, I kept searching for topics with Misplaced Pages's search function, not knowing that I had to go to Advanced and check the "Misplaced Pages" box in order to find pages in the Wiki space. It was very frustrating and I'm glad the Editors who staff the ] are incredibly patient.
	:::: My first serious edits, of course, stepped on toes. I wish Editors and Admins who post warnings on User Talk Pages would realize that casual Editors don't even know that policy and guideline pages ''exist''...they don't know there are these articles they should read first or where they are and they couldn't find them without a direct link. So, I was labeled as "disruptive" and some of my edits were reverted because I was learning by trial and error. This scolding led to me spending a lot of time reading Wiki articles and noticeboards, in order to better understand Misplaced Pages culture and what expectations were. This is why you just started to seeing my name around the past few months and also why I also often advise against imposing blocks on new Editors because I know how much I stumbled around, ignorant of what customs and practices I was violating. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::: P.S. ] still exists and if I go to other Wiki sites it logs me in under that username and when I return to en.wiki, I'm still logged in as Nwjerseyliz. So, you'll still see some edits there.
			Can you help me understand how the Creatio page on Wiki can be restored (or how we as a Company, we can improve it from the content standpoint)?
	::*Liz wrote: <small><i>But I imagine you aren't talking about merely edits but content creation itself. After seeing so many newly created articles quickly deleted, the idea of putting a lot work into writing which is then erased, well, that is completely unappealing to me. </i></small>
			Thanks for your help, and have a good holiday! ] (]) 10:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	::::I know exactly how you feel.
			== ] ==
	:::Liz wrote: <small><i>I also don't see a lot of value in creating a lot of random stub articles which, by and large, are never expanded by other Editors, just for the sake of article creation. They typically don't provide much information and are just placeholders. </i></small>
			While we can try the redirect method again, I will point out that that has repeatedly failed multiple times in deterring past students each semester assigned to create this draft. They've removed the redirect, uploaded their work as the new draft and leave, completely unaware of how Misplaced Pages works, and ignoring the real article on Kim Abeles. They don't return after the upload and a minor edit or two right after. @]'s template was very effective this fall on this draft as no edits occurred between your June and Dec edits. Early Dec would have likely been another round of this likely assignment reappearing. This and multiple other articles have been seasonal regulars of new drafts of existing subjects from a "rogue" teacher's Misplaced Pages assignments, and while I agree that having the redirect is the normal solution, this is not a normal case, and I'm not optimistic that the teacher assigning these is yet aware of the issue (but I've not followed all draft cases, just this one).
	::::Just to play devil’s advocate: Most, if not all, the articles I created were stubs, and while what you say above (still) applies to some, others have received some nice contributions. See for example ]
			I don't recall if a request for page protection on these pages occurred, or if that would be appropriate in these cases with the ~6month reoccurrences, but I feel like it's been clear that having it as a redirect has not been a deterrent for recreations. Like I said at the top of this message, happy to try it with the redirect again, but I'm not optimistic. It will likely be late April/early May when the Spring finals approach when the likelihood is ripe again. Regardless of opinions, hope you have a happy, safe, and calm holidays. ] (]) 11:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	:::Liz wrote: <small><i>It's been interesting to me to see so many unreferenced, badly written, older articles that currently exist on Misplaced Pages and then see such a high bar set for newly created articles. I'm not saying that bad articles should be accepted, just that standards have changed a lot on Misplaced Pages regarding article creation and now a lot of articles that could improve over time are simply being deleted.</i></small>
			:Happy to say that per ] somebody finally managed to get in touch with the teacher responsible this year, and this seems to have stopped it. I didn't notice any activity on the usual articles, or the usual copyvios being uploaded to Commons, this October. ] (]) 11:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	::::How true, sigh… X] (]) 15:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
			::Great! I was not aware of that update and will relax on this being a redirect given the promising details of that conversation and the lack of any repeating occurrences this fall from the pages/files you were aware of. I had seen yesterday's changes as a return to a state that had not worked in the past, and was seeing your template as an effective solution so far, but still in the test phase since it had only been up for one semester. I'm glad this issue appears to be concluded now. Happy holidays to you as well, ] (]) 19:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	::::: I was spending a lot of time in ] last month, ], but it could get so adversarial, it was tiring. I mean, the easiest thing is to vote '''Delete''' because it takes no effort (just like posting '''Block!''' on AN/I). But if you want to '''Keep''', you have to find policies, guidelines or logical reasons to justify why content should exist. I also felt like I needed to notify everyone who might be effected by a Delete and found that the majority of Editors are not checking in daily and decisions in Deletions wrap up quickly (usually in a week or less). So, that effort didn't pay off with much response but I'm glad I did it.
	::::: I'm still finding out where I fit in to the Wiki world, where I can help out the most but also get some satisfaction.
	::::: I didn't mean to knock stub authors, some that I've seen are closer to articles while others are pretty meager. I just became curious how some Editors could create 100s (or 1000s) of articles and when I looked into it, they were often just a sentence-long stubs about some obscure type of salamander or gnat that lists their scientific name and common name and a reference to some biological reference book. A decent article could take weeks or months to craft especially considering all of the other things going on in life. It's quite an investment of time and effort to track down all of the necessary references so the subject is going to have to be one I already know something about. I truly admire Editors that have the persistence to take a so-so article to GA and FA status.
	::::: But like the guidelines say, this isn't a race, Misplaced Pages grows as a cumulative effort and a new article can be added today, next month or next year and still be a worthwhile addition. Sorry for rambling a bit, I tend to get a little reflective in the morning when I'm drinking my coffee. Thanks for being a Talk Page Stalker! ;-) <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 16:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Butting in here, I wholeheartedly agree with you about how it can take a long time to find sources, particularly at present. That's probably the main reason I'm working on getting together the lists of encyclopedic articles, and also trying to add some of the older PD ones to commons. Particularly for a lot of older topics, like maybe a 19th century mayor of Berlin, some of those older sources might be among the best out there, considering the possibly greater temporary significance of the subject at the time those works came out, and more space devoted to them on that basis, and the fact that, in a lot of cases, except some involving homosexual outing, revelation of subsequent sometimes questionable sexual or other forms of behavior, etc., there won't be a lot of currently regarded information about them that won't be included in those old sources. Granted, a lot of that sort of material can also, not unreasonably, be called "boring", but it might still be significant enough for inclusion here to some degree. ] (]) 17:44, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	::::::: You have to be very careful with old reference materials, ]. They reflect what certain scholars believed at the time they were written, but our understanding about most fields, from physics to literature to anthropology, is not even the same as it was ten years ago. I'd say that even a reference text from 1993 is out-of-date, depending on the type of information it contains.
	::::::: I've seen old Catholic Encyclopedias from the turn of the 20th century and reading them gave me a good idea about what a particular group of chosen Catholic theologians (but not laypeople) believed about the saints or the sacraments in 1907. But we not only know more 100+ years later but scholarship itself has changed. Methods of research have changed, there are more academic contributions from scholars in countries outside of Europe and North America and also, gasp!, women, too. While much of academic training itself has changed little over the past 150 years (unfortunately), the individuals who are doing the research have changed, immensely, the research questions that are being asked have evolved over time and so have the conclusions drawn from that research.
	::::::: Older reference materials are valuable in that they can demonstrate how understanding of a concept or event has changed over time but they are, basically, a moment encapsulated in a time capsule. I'd argue that they should only be used as a reference if a Wiki article is discussing what people at a certain moment in time believed as these works do not reflect contemporary scholarship. That doesn't make them useless, just that their use has to be qualified and it should be noted that they are dated. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 18:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::On the matters you referred to, I actually more or less agree, which is why I mentioned the example of an older mayor of Berlin, although I suppose any older biographical article about minor figures who haven't gotten much subsequent attention might be similar. Regarding matters of religion, yeah, I have seen how in some cases like regarding Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Mani's early Christianity, and several other matters which have been significantly changed by recent discoveries would invalidate a lot of the older conclusions, but that number of topics, broad as it is, is probably still a non-majority of the total number of all the possible topics out there. Particularly starting in the era of when written sources became particularly common, say the end of the 19th century, and some works like the Chambers, Britannica, and a few other comparatively non-biased sources, the older articles on, for instance, countries which have since been merged, or conquered, or whatever, might still be among the better sources for those older topics. ] (]) 18:14, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
	== October 2013 ==
			==Happy Christmas==
	] Hello, I'm ]. I have automatically detected that to ] may have broken the ] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on .
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #bbc7c6;"
	:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
	*<nowiki>| Director ]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025'''
	Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->] (]) 13:36, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
			----
			Hello Liz, warm wishes to you and your family throughout the holiday season. May your heart and home be filled with all of the joys the festive season brings. Here is a toast to a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year!.
			'''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 12:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			|}
			== Happy Holidays ==
			<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#F6F0F7; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">]]]{{Center|]}}
			'''Hello Liz:''' Enjoy the ''']'''&#32;and ''']''' if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, ] (]) 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			]{{paragraph break}}
			</div>
			<div style="padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 1em; font-size: 88%; font-style: italic">Spread the WikiLove; use {{tls|Season's Greetings}} to send this message</div>{{-}} ] (]) 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Undelete page Mudirr, I need to work on it to fix its citations ==
			Hello,
			I can see that a page i had create almost two years back has been deleted, i want to undelete it and update its content and references, could you please help in this regard?
			Thanks. ] (]) 15:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, ],
			:Please provide a link to the deleted page so I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::{{TPW}}{{DONE}} It was ]. ] has been undeleted ] (]) 19:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Thanks, ]. It's not always clear with these requests what namespace the article was from. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Too true. It was my pleasure. ] (]) 20:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Just a reminder, ]. When you restore a draft/sandbox that has been deleted due to CSD G13, you need to make a minor edit to the page or it becomes eligible again for a G13 speedy deletion. That's something you learn if you help out at ] which is actually a more enjoyable admin task than many others I've tried. It's like you have to remove the PROD tag from restored PRODs. But thanks for being a very helpful TPS and I hope you have a great end-of-the-year holiday! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
			----
			'''Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
			] (]) 21:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
			|}
			== ''The Signpost'': 24 December 2024 ==
	== Rick Bronson ==
	] says "Be sure you have a valid reason for deletion" and "provide a clear and non-generic reason" and "indicating the article's general subject area or what notability guidelines it falls under is considered good practice" and "Make sure to provide an edit summary that clearly indicates that the article has been proposed for deletion" amongst other advice on how to nominate - I'm not sure how clearer it could be. And no, you cannot re-add the tag - it now needs to go to ] I'm afraid. If you're unsure how that works please let me know. ]] 19:10, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks, ]. I don't take reverts personally, I try to use them as a way to understand what I did incorrectly. I think I need a short list of valid reasons for deletion because I thought that being an insubstantial article was evidence enough. I mean, it was a sentence long with all of these external links! Is "it looks like junk" a valid reason? No, that's probably too generic.
	: What I find puzzling is that there are so many Editors who are a quick draw with Speedy Deletes...they seem to tag dozens of SDs all day long. And I find myself an Inclusionist and usually argue to '''Keep''' articles and categories from deletion. But when I find a delete-worthy article, I don't know the right way to get it done. Seriously, I've proposed maybe 3 AfD (over 3 months) and they were all kept. I must be doing something wrong because I wouldn't haven't proposed them unless I thought they would meet the criteria for deletion.
	: Any way, thanks for explaining it to me. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 20:04, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-24}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 18--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	== Forgot to sign ==
			<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1263792399 -->
	Liz, you forgot to sign your comment under Pre-planned dispute: . ] (]) 22:08, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	: Hey, it was just that one place, right, ]? I guess you are both watching that page! <br>
	: Your answers to the questions seemed a little snippy but I gather it is just coming out of exhaustion about the whole process. But that's how the text read to me. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:28, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	::Sorry if I seemed a little snippy but you are right about the reason. I'm getting really tired of having my motives impugned all the time. ] (]) 22:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	::: ], you can be snippy with me. ;-) But I'd advise both you and ] not to be snippy with Arbitrators who, for all I know, are all still undecided on this whole case. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:38, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	:And, if I may say so, I believe it would really be in your own best interests to review some previous arbitrations. I acknowledge that you seem to have generated in your own head a rather unsupportable conclusion about me, which is rather obvious given some of your edits. But you will find that for instance ] specifically was an instance of ArbCom requesting involvement of the kind of outside input I am requesting. Particularly for someone who seeks to be an administrator, it would really help to refrain from making statements about what can and can't and should and shouldn't be done until after you make an effort to see if it has or has not been done before. ] (]) 22:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	:: Are you talking to me, John? Why would you assume I wanted to be an administrator? Or are you referring to My very best wishes?
	:: I'm not sure what you mean by "in my own best interests" but I reviewed the Ebionites request for arbitration and Ebionites2 case over the summer when I was trying to sort out what was happening on the Talk Pages and Noticeboards where you and Ignocrates sparred.
	:: As for Arbitration, the deadline is today and I've posted what I've posted. So far, the ARBCOM hasn't paid much attention to the statements I've made, so I don't think my words will have a great effect upon the proceedings, especially compared to your own words. Any further comments I make will be regarding the proposed decisions, if I choose to participate in that discussion. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 22:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
	:::Um, at some point you said you wanted to be an administrator. And I find the borderline hysteria of the comment about how I might be talking to Mvbw laughable. I'm not sure if you have bothered to review the recent discussion on his user talk page, which you apparently haven't, between me and him, but you will find that I suggested to him maybe doing some translations of Russian material. But, I guess, you didn't review such, did you, and you have taken his declarations based on his own prejudicial views of the Falun Gong 2 arbitration at face value. If you are not planning to seek adminship, though, then perhaps you should feel free to continue to make the sort of poorly researched and judgmental comments you seem to at least in my eyes enjoy making about others. And you apparently didn't review the talk pages of Jayjg, or Dougweller, or any of the other pages I had linked to in my evidence page, where a lot of the problematic conduct took place, which is also relevant. Poor research, and drawing conclusions based on poor research, is actually something I would have not expected from an academic or a former librarian. ] (]) 22:39, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

---

Latest revision as of 00:01, 25 December 2024

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, this user asks you to take precautions: 1. Maintain social distancing by starting new posts in new sections, to avoid contaminating other users. 2. Follow the one-way system by putting new posts at the bottom. 3. Sign your comments to facilitate contact tracing.

It's Summer!

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58

July-August 2013 September-October 2013 November-December 2013 January-February 2014 March-April 2014 May-June 2014 July-August 2014 September-October 2014 November-December 2014 January-February 2015 March-April 2015 May-June 2015 July-August 2015 September-October 2015 November-December 2015 January-February 2016 March-April 2016 May-December 2016 January-June 2017 July-December 2017 January-June 2018 July-December 2018 January-February 2019 March-April 2019 May-June 2019 July-August 2019 September-October 2019 November-December 2019 January-February 2020 March-April 2020 May-June 2020 July-August 2020 September-October 2020 November-December 2020 January-February 2021 March-April 2021 May-June 2021 July-August 2021 September-October 2021 November-December 2021 January-February 2022 March-April 2022 May-June 2022 July-August 2022 September-October 2022 November-December 2022 January-February 2023 March-April 2023 May-June 2023 July-August 2023 September-October 2023 November-December 2023 January-February 2024 March-April 2024 May-June 2024 July-August 2024 September-October 2024

This page was last edited or modified by MediaWiki message delivery (talk).

Note: When emailing me, please also post a {{You've got mail}} template to this page.
I check my Misplaced Pages email account infrequently.

Wise words given to a blocked editor: This absolute adherence to the idea that your interpretation of the rules is paramount
and everyone else's input is merely an obstacle to overcome is an accurate summary of how you ended up in this position.
Basalisk ⁄_berate 4 August 2013
Well said!Liz

24 December 2024
News and notes: Responsibilities and liabilities as a "Very Large Online Platform" Op-ed: Beeblebrox on Wikipediocracy, the Committee, and everything Opinion: Graham87 on being the first-ever administrator recall subject In the media: Delhi High Court considers Caravan and Ken for evaluating the ANI vs. WMF case From the archives: Where to draw the line in reporting? Recent research: "Misplaced Pages editors are quite prosocial", but those motivated by "social image" may put quantity over quality Humour: Backlash over Santa Claus' Misplaced Pages article intensifies Gallery: A feast of holidays and carols Traffic report: Was a long and dark December
Single page Front page About Subscribe Suggestions Archives

Centralized discussion

Village pumps

policy

tech

proposals

idea lab

WMF

misc

• A request for adminship is open for discussion.
• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

For a listing of ongoing discussions, see the dashboard.

• view
• edit
• history
• watch
• archive
• talk
• purge

While Misplaced Pages's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused.
Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies.
If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them.
Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures.
Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus. (WP:NOT)

Recommended reading for editors who are upset RIGHT NOW!:
Tips for the angry new user - Gamaliel
Staying cool when the editing gets hot!

If you came here just to insult me, I will delete your comments without a reply.
And if I wasn't involved, personal attacks clearly warrant a block.

User:Ayambakar711

Dear Mrs. @Liz, please delete user pages User:Ayambakar711 because WP:U5. Thanks..... 180.252.56.220 (talk) 04:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 180.252.56.220,

I blanked their User page. This editor made 3 edits 6+ years ago, this isn't an urgent situation. I'm not sure how you even stumbled upon them. Liz 04:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Move

Hello Liz, someone moved Tyla to multiple titles and went as far as to create a duplicate titled Tyla Laura. My guess is that they were trying to get the credits for creating the Tyla article. Can you please look at the article, its talk and subpages and check if there's anything wrong? dxneo (talk) 14:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, dxneo,

Though I'm late in responding, I actually looked into this situation when you posted about it last weekend and looked to see if any clean-up was necessary. The editor has since been blocked for disruptive editing and because it might be a compromised account. Thanaks for bringing this to my attention and I'm sorry that it's taken me a while to reply to your request. Liz 20:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2024).

Administrator changes

• Crisco 1492

• Babajobu
• Daniel
• Elf
• Jayron32
• Thue
• Wugapodes

CheckUser changes

Maxim

Oversighter changes

Maxim

Guideline and policy news

• Following a discussion, the discussion-only period proposal that went for a trial to refine the requests for adminship (RfA) process has been discontinued.
• Following a request for comment, Administrator recall is adopted as a policy.

Technical news

• Mass deletions done with the Nuke tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. T366068

Arbitration

• RoySmith, Barkeep49 and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2024 Arbitration Committee Elections. ThadeusOfNazereth and Dr vulpes are reserve commissioners.
• Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate from 3 November 2024 until 12 November 2024 to stand in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections.
• The Arbitration Committee is seeking volunteers for roles such as clerks, access to the COI queue, checkuser, and oversight.

Miscellaneous

• An unreferenced articles backlog drive is happening in November 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. Sign up to participate!

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Procedural keep/close?

Hi Liz, could you give this a quick look please to see whether it should be procedurally closed. There is an active unclosed merge discussion and this seems to have been started as a novel means to close the merge. Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Sirfurboy🏄,

 Done I initially thought it was too late in the process for a procedural close but when I saw the nominator's deletion argument was actually an indirect request to get support for keeping the article, I decided that you were right and this was an incorrect use of AFD. Liz 20:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks Liz. It was all getting rather confused. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:14, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mark Kent

May I ask how this could possibly be considered a no consensus result? It's a clear keep result unless you are overriding the five keep votes and deciding for some reason that the two deleters have stronger arguments (which is a bit odd since it comes down to people claiming he meets GNG versus people claiming he doesn't). What is the justification for this? You don't say in your closing statement. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Saying that keep arguments were "people claiming he meets GNG" is a fundamental mischaracterisation of your own argument which consisted partly of "The CMG is a high honour which isn't handed out in cornflakes packets" and which made absolutely zero attempt to assess notability based on sources. That's one of the weakest arguments I've seen at AfD in a while. No closer should take it into account at all. AusLondonder (talk) 16:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree. I'm not sure how I would have voted, but, like OzLondoner, I hope I would have pointed out the paucity of the argument. The close was good. SerialNumber54129 17:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Wait, that is Oz Londoner? I have been reading that forever as aus, as in German for out. Out of Londoner. Now I don't know what to think! Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 23:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh and yeah, I think the close was good. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 23:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy: like, aus, raus!  :) SerialNumber54129 01:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy: Haha that made me smile. Now I'm wondering about your name though. Sir Fur Boy? Or Surfer Boy? 😂 AusLondonder (talk) 11:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes! I added the surfer emoji partly to clarify. When I first came up with the name I had know idea furries were a thing. Furboy was my Paladin when I used to play D&D. I do actually surf - although these days I have switched to a kayak. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:13, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I always thought "Aus" referred to Australia or, maybe Austria, but I now see from your User page, AusLondonder, that you don't seem to participate in any WikiProjects on those countries so perhaps I've been wrong all of this time. Liz 19:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Necrothesp,

I gather that you would have preferred a firmer close as a Keep rather than No consensus? Well, first, as a frequent AFD participant, I know that you know that it's not a vote count. But when you have a divided discussion like this one, with some editors arguing that WP:BASIC is met and others arguing WP:BASIC is not met, then you need to review the arguments and, I believe, the experience levels of the participants in the discussion.

I didn't think I could close as Keep without it signalling that I was ignoring the opinions of two editors who were arguing for Deletion, both of whom are very experienced in assessing articles and sources in AFD discussions. So, I closed as No consensus which is not saying that both sides were equally strong in their arguments but it acknowledges that their wasn't unanimity or agreement close to unamity in this discussion. This is not an uncommon outcome when you have experienced editors reviewing sources who come to opposing evaluations of them. It's not my job to review the sources myself because that would lead to a "supervote" so I have to rely on the arguments of the participants and, in this case, I didn't see a consensus.

Of course, you can take this to Misplaced Pages:Deletion review if you want and present your argument there. In this case, you might have a few participants who agree with your interpretation but I think the majority of opinions would be that "No consensus" was a reasonable outcome that any closer might come to. I'm occasionally willing to revert an AFD closure if an editor is asking for an additional relisting or I've made some obvious error but I don't think I did here and I don't think a third relisting would have altered the outcome of this discussion. But that's your call. Liz 19:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not a "vote count", but when you have more than twice the number of editors voting one way than the other, then not acknowledging that majority and closing in their favour does indeed look like a supervote unless they're spouting utter rubbish. I didn't think I could close as Keep without it signalling that I was ignoring the opinions of two editors who were arguing for Deletion, both of whom are very experienced in assessing articles and sources in AFD discussions. I don't think I've ever seen that argument before. It's basically saying that because two editors, both of whom have a proven track record of being very keen on deletion incidentally, say it should be deleted then their arguments should be given more weight than the other five participants because they're "experienced" and it would be somehow insulting to them to close in favour of the other participants. That's just weird, frankly, and I think goes against the spirit of Misplaced Pages. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:43, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

It's the effective same result so I'm not sure why you're complaining so much. Consensus is based on argument quality, not numbers. Maybe try and assess notability based on sources rather than tangents about cornflakes and your opinion will count for more at AfD. AusLondonder (talk) 13:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Consensus is indeed based on argument quality. And yours weren't superior in anyone's opinion except yours. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Necrothesp, I didn't participate in that discussion, but reviewing it now, I see two editors making good source based arguments to keep, as well as two making such arguments for deletion. Two said it meets WP:BASIC but did not say how. So I think Liz evaluated that fairly. But there is also your argument that the CMG is a high honour. This was not related to any SNG, but is an SNG style of shortcut argument that many of us use in our first look at a subject to come to an initial view. For instance, today I have posted on an AfD school discussion that you also posted on, and expressed my own shortcut argument based on the age, prestige and size of a school. But such arguments are nothing more than a rebuttable supposition of notability. What always matters is whether sources exist from which the page can be written. A school can be big and old and so unremarkable that perhaps there really are no sources. A person can be an unremarkable civil servant or part of a diplomatic mission, so much in the background that sources do not exist. In such cases the assumption of notability will be rebutted by the searches that turn nothing up, and no page can be written. But certainly we can use such arguments to choose where we might be concentrating our efforts, and, when the matter is finely balanced, to argue the toss in favour of retention. Still, what really matters are the sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Creating a Previously Deleted Article

Hi Liz,

I created an article for the Powhatan Hotel in Galveston (sometime in early 2023), which I realized was an ill-conceived mess, so I requested speedy deletion. Thanks for your assistance with that. Now I have a new source for the article, making two expert architectural sources for the same article. Before I re-create the article, however, I would like to recall the specifics of the mess I created in order to avoid a similar mistake. I am not finding my own conversations on this and without the text of the original, I am not recalling the specifics of my errors. Do you have any tips for pulling any helpful documents? I am in no rush to re-create the article, so whatever timetable works for you also works for me. Best regards, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 11:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Oldsanfelipe2,

It sounds like I might be able to help you out but you need to provide a link to the deleted article. You know the exact name of the article you created so it would be faster if you could provide this rather than me spending time looking for it. Then I could review the reason for deletion and see if the situation is as you state it is. Thank you. Liz 19:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Does this help? https://en.wikipedia.org/Powhatan_Hotel Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 22:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Oldsanfelipe2,

Yes, that's what I needed. Oh, this was from 2023! This was a CSD G7, an article creator asks for deletion so this can be reverted if that's what you are asking for. Liz 23:04, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

SPAs POV-pushing in The Keys to the White House

I completely agree with your concern, on the AN/I thread, that the volume of material is daunting. I spent literally hours researching, drafting, and editing my request, to try to simplify it as much as possible. (I'm responding to you here instead of there precisely so as not to add to the length of the thread.) I think this was also a problem on the thread on the BLP Noticeboard. The three SPAs flooded the zone with reiterations of their position, and only one uninvolved editor was dedicated enough to wade through it all.

And speaking of wading through it -- you presumably haven't waded through Talk:The Keys to the White House. You've done more than other admins by even reading my summary. Frankly, your hope that these differences could be resolved on talk pages is, alas, completely unrealistic. If you look at that page, you'll see that I've tried and tried and tried until I'm blue in the keyboard. The SPAs will not budge.

It's a classic case of WP:SPA. In June of this year there was a blog post criticizing Lichtman. At about the same time, these three accounts showed up pushing the bloggers' position. They even insisted on citing the blog's criticisms (in a BLP!). You can see several screenfuls of text at Talk:The_Keys_to_the_White_House#Unacceptable_source as I tried to get them to adhere to WP:SPS. But even that self-evident point couldn't be resolved on the Talk page. Just to get those improper citations removed, I had to expend yet more time to create a Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard thread. Consensus-based dispute resolution just doesn't work when there are SPAs whose sole or primary purpose in editing is to push their POV. (The current, POV version doesn't directly link to the blog post, but it does quote the nonnotable bloggers as if they were experts. Coincidentally, the SPAs asserted that the bloggers were experts.)

I'm at my wits' end with these accounts. There's a limit to how much time I can spend banging my head against a brick wall in the hope of some miraculous resolution on the Talk page. If no admin will pick up a mop and do something (maybe even a 30-day article ban would send a salutary message!), then I'll probably just have to give up. The SPAs will succeed in thumbing their nose at WP:NPOV and hijacking a BLP article to promote their views. JamesMLane t c 15:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, JamesMLane,

I'm sorry that this situation has left you so frustrated. And also that I'm not willing, at this point, to go diving into this complicated dispute to try to settle it. But most of my time editing on the project is filled up with some routine tasks that take up most of my time and I've only recently returned to even looking at cases that come up on ANI so I don't see my time freeing up any time soon.

Without coming to a conclusion on this complaint, I see that you have two problems: a) the complexity of this case that involves at least three other editors and the fact that it appears that this dispute has covered several different talk pages and noticeboards and b) that, right now, it looks like it is you against at least three editors. You'd have an outcome more to your preference if you had at least one other editor who was contributing to this discussion who supported your interpretation and could speak up. I'm sure it's maddening to see a situation you believe is inappropriate and be alone in this.

Is there a related WikiProject where you could go to their talk page and ask for uninvolved editors to offer their opinion? Or you could post an impartial request for help on the talk page of a related article. Of course, numbers don't always determine consensus on Misplaced Pages but at least you could get a second opinion on whether the way you interpret this situation is correct. I've found that in many disputes on Misplaced Pages "me vs. you" situations (or, in this case, "you vs. them") are frequently resolvable if more editors join in the discussion. Any chance of that occurring? Liz 19:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Liz, thanks for your response. I completely understand the limitations on your time and energy. I have a long Misplaced Pages to-do list, with some items dating back years, and I'm not even an admin.

I wanted more editors to join in the discussion. That's why I started the RfC and then the Noticeboard thread. Each of those efforts brought a response from an experienced and previously uninvolved editor, and in each case the editor agreed with me. The three SPAs are unmoved, though. Their attitude is that their POV is correct, the article is fine the way it is, as long as they don't agree to a change there's no consensus, and as long as there's no consensus the version they prefer must remain in place.

As for WikiProjects, I did post at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Biography/Science and academia#Question about adding template. I just want the BLP template placed on the Keys article, because the SPAs wouldn't even agree that BLP standards applied. Being cautious, I thought an uninvolved editor should add the template. No one added the template or even responded to my post. I also noted the RfC on the lists for Biographies; for History and geography; and for Politics, government, and law. I assume that many WikiProject participants monitor the applicable list for their project.

My current inclination: (1) Hope that the AN/I thread gets attention from an admin who can undertake the admittedly burdensome task of addressing the problem. (2) If some time passes and no other admin responds there, I'll try starting a thread at Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. The weakness in that plan is that, even if it elicits comments from a few experienced editors, the SPAs will persist. Past comments from such editors have had no effect on the SPAs. (3) If that doesn't work, I'll consider your suggestion of WP:AE. I've never done one of them and it seems to be a lot of work by me, and then hope that some admin takes an interest. My personal opinion is that the SPAs' violations of WP:NPOV and WP:BLP are much clearer than the charge of contentious editing. If nothing can get done based on violations of two clear policies, I can't be very optimistic about AE. JamesMLane t c 20:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Merge vs AfD

Hi Liz, I'm writing about the odd situation with Misplaced Pages and antisemitism. I don't believe the AfD nominator (Selfstudier) was looking for a Keep result; they supported merging while saying Might be better just to AfD it as POVFORK. They seem okay with either merging or deletion.

From my perspective, the merge discussion seemed to effectively evolve into a deletion discussion, especially now that the destination article already has relevant content and can't really fit more. So I thought it was logical to move to AfD, and there seemed to be some agreement for that from both sides of the dispute: myself and ProfGray on one side, Selfstudier and Hemiauchenia (the merge proposer) on the other.

I suppose the merge should have been closed before an AfD, but now that the AfD had developed, would you consider reopening it to let it run to conclusion?

I realize it could appear like I'm trying to work around a consensus to merge, but FWIW I think those arguments should also be considered by a future AfD closer. I.e. I believe this should be evaluated as a deletion, but with consideration of all relevant arguments. — xDanielx /_C\ 22:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, XDanielx,

Well, I was accommodating another editor who requested a procedural close since the merger discussion was ongoing. Since the consensus was going in the direction of Keep, it was not clear to me what a Keep would mean if a Merge was also being discussed. Would it negate a decision to Merge? If a Merge was opposed then a Keep decision would be irrelevant because a Merge would already have been rejected. And I didn't see much support for Deletion which is what AFD is typically for, to consider whether or not an article should be deleted. So, I don't see any purpose to having an AFD discussion ongoing while a Merge is being considered if the closure looks like it would just have Kept the article as it is. I don't think an AFD should occur to just see if there is widespread support for a Merge, that's what the Merge discussion is for. So, it looks like this was splintering the debate and since the Merge discussion was started first, I think it should continue.

And AFDs should never occur just to verify that an article should be Kept, they should only occur if the nominator is seeking Deletion. Sometimes the outcome for an AFD is a Merge, Redirection or Draftification, but that decision arises out the consensus of the discussion, not as an outcome sought by the nominator. Liz 23:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining further. So as I understand it, there were two concerns with the AfD:

1. The filer might not have been seeking deletion.
2. It was filed during an open merge discussion.

On (1), my impression is that several editors like Selfstudier are seeking either a deletion or merge outcome, and probably don't feel strongly about the difference since there isn't really content that would be merged. The practical difference might just be a redirect. For example Tryptofish mentioned supporting "either deletion or merging"; the merge proposer Hemiauchenia also planned to file an AfD. I guess what I'm saying is, we can have someone else file if needed.

On (2), I think ideally the merge discussion should be procedural closed (but its arguments still considered) to indicate that it has been supplanted by an AfD, but the question is who should make that call. I think Hemiauchenia might be willing to. If not, we could request an uninvolved closer, where a possible close could involve recommending a change of venue to AfD. Does that sound reasonable? — xDanielx /_C\ 01:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that is reasonable at all. The merge discussion had been open a week when the AfD started and had some 25 participants and represented a lot of editor time. The AfD was started without a deletion rationale and any outcome that overturns the merge outcome would instantly be challenged at DRV because it is out of process. It was just making a mess. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Notice of a discussion I think you'd be interested in knowing about

Hey Liz, I thought you might want to be aware of this discussion (which includes not just the linked to thread, but a much larger one further above on VP/WMF). In summary, it appears that the WMF is prepared to imminently disclose personally identifying information about volunteers in a controversial Indian court case, where a news agency is attempting to suppress Misplaced Pages's tertiary coverage of the content of secondary sources (which it considers unflattering) by going after a number of individual editors as defendants. In order to comply with court orders in the case, it seems the WMF is prepared to share this information in what a number of us consider a pretty seismically bad idea and a betrayal of community priorities and values (the WMF has also already used an office action to remove an article reporting on the case, at the direction of the court for what said court regards as legitimate sub judice reasons).

While the deletion of the article has been framed by the WMF as temporary step to preserve appeal on the overall case, and there are mixed feelings in the community response as to that so far, there is a much more uniform opposition to throwing the individual editors (at least one of whom is located in India and has profound apprehension about what this could mean for his life with regard to litigation and beyond) under the bus. And yet the WMF appears to be prepared to share the information in question, as soon as Nov. 8. Can I impose upon you to take a look at the matter and share your perspective? SnowRise 00:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Snow Rise,

I've actually been following this issue for about the past 10 days. I'm always reluctant to jump into a very long discussion that I haven't been part of since the beginning because I'm sure I'll miss something important when I skim through all of the comments. But I agree that this is a very important issue so I'll check in on the current state of the discussion. I appreciate your efforts to publicize this problem. Liz 07:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Liz: it's a novel form of project activity for me and I'm not sure my approach is optimized for exposure, but I've made such efforts as I could. SnowRise 09:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Deletion review for People's Republic of China's civilian motor vehicle license plates

An editor has asked for a deletion review of People's Republic of China's civilian motor vehicle license plates. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Piotrus,

I've already responded at the deletion review but I wanted to thank you for the notification. It's appreciated. Liz 07:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 November 2024

• From the editors: Editing Misplaced Pages should not be a crime

• News and notes: Wikimedia Foundation shares ANI lawsuit updates; first admin elections appoint eleven sysops; first admin recalls opened; temporary accounts coming soon?

• In the media: An old scrimmage, politics and purported libel

• Special report: Misplaced Pages editors face litigation, censorship

• Gallery: Why you should take more photos and upload them

• In focus: Questions and answers about the court case

• Traffic report: Twisted tricks or tempting treats?

• Technology report: Wikimedia tech, the Asian News International case, and the ultra-rare BLACKLOCK

• Humour: Man quietly slinks away from talk page argument after realizing his argument dumb, wrong

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:CyberIdris

Hi, dear Liz, thank you for earlier. I'd like to report sock puppets but I'm not sure how to do it. If you can help me I'd appreciate it if you could report User:CyberIdris and User:45.128.80.181. みしまるもも (talk) 06:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, みしまるもも,

It's not a process that is easy to describe here. I would just go to SPI, look at some of the open cases listed on that page and then follow the instructions to open a new case which is pretty obvious if you review the page. As a warning to you though, Checkusers will not connect registered accounts to IP addresses because it can be an invastion of privacy, sockpuppet investigations are really to compare registered accounts with each other. So, if you just have this registered account and an IP address, I don't think it would be worth your time to go through the steps to set up a case. But I suggest you at least look over the SPI main page so you are more familiar with the process. Liz 02:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, I just noticed that User:45.128.80.181 is blocked for two weeks so that might help out with any problem you are having. Liz 02:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Dear Liz, Thank you for letting me know. みしまるもも (talk) 06:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I thought they might accept it, so I made the request. Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/CyberIdris Thank you. --みしまるもも (talk) 07:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Award

		The Civility Barnstar
		For your collaboration and kindness, you deserve this award. Best regards! FkpCascais (talk) 15:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, FkpCascais, this is very kind of you. I'm not sure that I'm always civil but I try! Liz 02:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You are cool, say what you want to say, and straight forward. Mine kind of people. Lets keep on this project going on better and better, and, please, poke me for whatever you need. I had been away and only focused on football for the last decade, or so, but earlier I had been active in many more areas of Misplaced Pages because I always did and still do find this one of the most amasirog projects on the entire internet. FkpCascais (talk) 19:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Drafts

Please restore all the drafts you deleted. Thank you. Crafterstar (talk) 15:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Crafterstar, Liz deletes a lot of drafts, and many of yours definitely shouldn't be recreated. Are there some specific ones you'd like to have back? -- asilvering (talk) 00:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Crafterstar, you will have to be more specific and list the deleted drafts you want restored. You can also request restoration of a draft deleted for CSD G13 reasons at WP:REFUND. But I have deleted tens of thousands of draft articles for legitimate reasons and I'm not going to blindly restore them all because you requested this. Liz 02:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry for being vague. I would like to have Draft:Earthsea (TV series) restored. That's the only I want returned right now. Now that I have returned, now what... Any advice for me? Crafterstar (talk) 03:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Crafterstar,

 Done Sorry, I didn't recognize your name and didn't know that you had been unblocked. You were quite a prolific editor and I deleted many of your drafts during the time period you were blocked as they went stale. In the page history of your User talk page, there should be a record of notices from FireflyBot so you can see which drafts were due to be deleted via CSD G13. I'm happy to restore any of those articles if you give me a list of the ones you wish to continue working on. Any way, welcome back. Liz 20:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

My only advice is not to sock. There is no benefit from doing so, only risks and sanctions. If you want to have an alternate account, make it a legitimate one and put a notice on both User pages identifying it as such. I think that is where you got into trouble.

Also, among editors working on recently released films, there is some kind of rivalry on being the editor who creates the article for a new film and multiple editors in this area have been indefinitely blocked for taking shortcuts like overwriting another editors' work or tagging a page for deletion and then recreating it yourself. Don't get caught up in this nonsense because, truthfully, no one is keeping score of "who got there first". Focus on quality, not speed. Liz 20:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

↑↑↑This is fantastic advice; I have been tempted many times to approach you, Crafterstar, regarding your creation, abandonment, and requested restoration of drafts. I have never seen this pattern outside of editors trying to be "first" when a draft they created becomes notable. It's not a particularly well-regarded approach to article creation.-- Ponyo 20:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Ponyo, there is also one other area where I see this happen and that is with hurricanes, tropical storms and tornadoes. But luckily, there is a fairly sizeable community of editors working on storms, they have created their own norms and they generally police themselves. And this has come up with some articles on elections and current events as seen on ANI and in a recent arbitration case. But the movie business is so big, prolific and announces upcoming movies years ahead of them being made, spreading across lots of countries that it is on a different scale as those other subjects. I've seen drafts kept "alive" for 3-5 years just because a film has been announced to be produced but nothing has happened on it yet. There is a lot of anticipation surrounding them, especially some big budget films and sequels. Liz 20:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

The draft work is a useful process in the situations you note as the event (whether it be political, a storm, or similar) is imminent. It's a staging area where multiple editors work together in preparation to publish an article on a soon-to-be notable topic. The mass creation of drafts based on announcements is just sort of...hoarding. It really appears, to me, as an attempt at owning the creation. -- Ponyo 20:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

ok. Thank you for the feedback. If anyone else have any thing to say, please do. Crafterstar (talk) 23:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Removing links after AfDs

Hello Liz. Sorry to bother you, but I've noticed on several occasions you have closed AfDs on North Korean footballers (as delete) and then removed links to the article. The issue is that some of the links you are removing were incorrectly linking to the footballer and should have been linking to a politician of the same name. For example, in this diff you removed a valid redlink to a member of parliament who would be deemed notable under WP:NPOLITICIAN. I wouldn't say anything if this was a one-off, but it's happened repeatedly over the past year (see the history of the 2014 North Korean election article, where this has happened at least seven times). As this seems to be specifically an issue for North Korea, could you be a bit more careful when closing AfDs on North Korean footballers if the outcome is to delete? Cheers, Number 57 00:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Number 57,

First, you are not bothering me. Thank you for bringing this issue to me but I'm not sure exactly how to respond. You say these are links are from articles deleted through AFDs and XFDcloser removes all links to deleted articles as part of its deletion process. And I'm not the only AFD closer, where are probably half dozen regular AFD admin closers and we all behave similarly, as far as I know. So, if this problem has reoccured then it's because I'm the only closer that has handled articles about North Korean footballers. The closure process doesn't make it easy to examine links to other articles to see what they are, it's kind of an "all or none" option and most (all?) closers choose to remove all links.

I also wonder how common it is that a North Korean football player has the same name as a politican. Is this really a big issue? All I can offer you as a soljution is that I skip closures of AFDs about North Korean football players but I think you will run into the same issue with any other closer who does handle them. It's just the way XFDcloser operates and closers are dependent on this editing tool. I'm sorry that I can't offer you a more elegant solution than for me to just cease closing these AFDs. Liz 02:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure that these links are all removed because of AFDs? Because we see a lot of North Korean football players in PROD'd articles and that is a different situation entirely. Liz 02:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Question: when using XFDcloser, do you see a list of pages you are about to edit/just edited when removing the links? Otherwise, it might be a good idea to check your own contributions after running the script, just to verify that removing the links made sense. For example, after you closed the Ri Yong-chol AfD, you made edits to the following pages:

• 2017 in South Korean football
• Organization and Guidance Department *
• 2017 EAFF E-1 Football Championship
• South Korea national football team results (2010–2019)
• 2011 FIFA U-20 World Cup
• Jo Myong-rok *
• 2007 FIFA U-20 World Cup squads
• 2011 FIFA U-20 World Cup squads
• 2010 AFC U-19 Championship squads
• 6th Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea *
• 2015 Thailand national football team results
• North Korea–South Korea football rivalry
• 2019 North Korean parliamentary election *
• 2017 EAFF E-1 Football Championship Final squads
• 2015 EAFF East Asian Cup Final squads
• 2014 North Korean parliamentary election *
• 2017 King's Cup squads
• Yon Hyong-muk *
• Young-chul *

Knowing you just deleted an article about a football player, many of those are obviously correct. However, the ones I marked with a * above are not as obvious, so you should verify whether your edit made sense and possibly self-revert. Obviously, that's not always necessary, only when the name of the deleted article could be ambiguous. And looking at your contributions, most deleted articles have far fewer incoming links, so checking if the removals made sense is even less work.

(note: in this case, Number 57 already fixed the two election pages, I fixed four others, and the last one is a list of people with that given name, so it's a correct removal.) --rchard2scout (talk) 13:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't realise it was automatically done by XFDcloser rather than you doing it. It's not a massive problem, but just as it had happened so often I thought it would be worth bringing to your attention. Perhaps it's an issue for XFDcloser and tweaking that so closers can examine the incoming links to make sure they are all relevant? I've never used it, so not sure how it works. Number 57 15:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Retrieving my draft titled "The Jackson 5 Us Tour"

I request for this draft titled "The Jackson 5 US Tour" that was taken down by you on October 4, 2024. I wasn't aware until now that it was lacking editing and that it was taken. I'd like my draft back. 1Skywriter (talk) 03:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 1Skywriter,

Please provide a link to the deleted page. Then I can see why it was deleted. That will determine whether or not it can be restored. Thank you. Liz 03:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:The_Jackson_5_US_Tour&action=edit&section=2 1Skywriter (talk) 06:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done This was a straight CSD speedy deletion G13, stale draft, 1Skywriter. These are easily restored. You can find it at Draft:The Jackson 5 US Tour. Liz 06:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Olga Gnedovskaya

I was almost certain I added a reference and deproded this article. Could you check in the history to see if I did, or am I not remembering right? Thanks, BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, BeanieFan11,

You are right, I was wrong. Sometimes, I open up articles, each in a tab, that are due to be deleted. I saw in the page history that you added content but I didn't note that you had removed the PROD tag, this is often noted in an edit summary. But I should have refreshed my screen. Thanks for being on top of this and your work on PROD'd articles. Liz 19:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Altenmann's doubling down

Hey Liz, Thanks for attempting to intervene with @Altenmann:, who I have pinged for transparency. Unfortunately, they are clearly not getting the message that they're deep into battleground behavior. And insulting my coding ability, telling me I should be shamed by my behavior, and frankly, just throwing a temper tantrum instead of trying to actually engage in the issue, is not helping them achieve their desired outcome. Frankly, I'm surprised that they have so many edits (200k+) and think that this kind of behavior is acceptable. I think that they should be embarrassed by their behavior. I'd rather not waste ANI's time if it can be prevented. Mason_Garrison 01:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Sure thing, politely revert warring with cosmonauts in the category of Russian Empire is a nice and pleasant behavior. Surely you are not ashamed of your WP:OWN attitude. Your coding creates a mess in wikipedia category, and it is a fact, not an insult. Yes with my 200k+ non-automated edits have brought me in a contact with plenty of bullies and sometimes I am losing temper. --Altenmann >talk 01:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Smasongarrison,

This is typical of my experience with this editor over the years. Every once in a while, they will post here IRATE, not displeased but seriously angry, over some random edit I made that is just typical of the editing I do, nothing out of the ordinary at all. But it drew their attention and they were not happy about it.

When I tried to discuss the situation, they might have made some parting shot but then they just moved back to continue editing like nothing had ever happened. I'm sure given their MO over their long tenure here, there is enough for an ANI complaint about civility but it would take a lot of time to track down all of the diffs and I'm sure you'd rather be editing categories. If I were you, I'd try to just shake it off and know that you are just the latest target of their displeasure and they are unlikely to be hounding you. I think especially among editors who been editing here for a long-time, they just learn to avoid disputes by keeping their distance from editors who push their buttons. No one at Misplaced Pages gets along with everyone. Liz 01:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Liz, it's good to know that this is just what they do. I assume that after the CFD closes with a rename, they'll move on to their corner of the internet. And yep, you're right, I'd much rather be futzing around with categories :) Mason_Garrison 01:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Request to re-open Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/E-Safety Authority

I would like you to re-open Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/E-Safety Authority because I was on wikibreak so I couldn't participate in the discussion. Per AusLondonder, since it's officially approved by the government, and it passes WP:GNG/WP:Notability and is very likely to commence operations. Referring to the Pakistan Airport Authority as an example, it was approved in the same month last year and has now started operations. Moreover, we also have National Cyber Crimes Investigation Agency being approved before the E-Safety Authority and which is yet to start operations. Ainty Painty (talk) 06:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Ainty Painty,

I don't see a strong reason to reopen that AFD. Besides, the article hasn't been deleted, just moved to Draft space. You can work on it at Draft:E-Safety Authority and submit it to AFC. No content has been deleted. Liz 04:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Arbcom

FWIW, I think you'd make a great arb. I hope I see your name on the ballot. RoySmith (talk) 16:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

+1 C F A 💬 19:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, RoySmith and CFA. I had a pretty grueling RFA but that was 9 years ago so maybe this wouldn't be a repeat of that experience. Liz 19:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

They changed username

I'm leaving that anonymous here in case it breaches any outing policy 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 19:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand, Timtrent. I didn't see any indication of a changed username and generally, when a username is changed the renamer moves their user pages to those corresponding to the new username. Liz 19:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I noticed it hereon 9 Nov 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 19:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree it is peculiar. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 19:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, Timtrent. The same thing just happened with User:Lukejstancil who might now be User:RiceOwl24. Do we have a new renamer who doesn't know what they are doing? Liz 20:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure. If it is the same one then a polite enquiry might bear fruit. I don't get very close to arcane things like renaming, I'm afraid 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 21:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Radka Zelníčková

Hello @Liz I thought I'd answer your question here rather than on the AFD discussion as it isn't relevant to whether the article is deleted or not (it'll be not by the way). Shrug02 (talk) 00:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Shrug02,

Welcome to my User talk page. But I don't see an answer here. And because I edit so much, I've forgotten what the question was. Liz 03:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello again @Liz I've now left an answer on the page in question. I've had enough of all this business and would like to be left alone now. I will not be participating in any further AFD matters after the current ones are closed as 1 I started doing Misplaced Pages for fun not hassle and 2 the process is a biased farce based on who says what rather than facts and rule adherence. Have a great day 🙂 Shrug02 (talk) 11:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

AfD Barnstar

		The Articles for Deletion Barnstar
		For all the work you dedicate, every day, to closing or relisting so many discussions. Thank you for keeping AfD ticking! MolecularPilot 03:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, MolecularPilot, I've never seen this barnstar before. You must have created it. There's about half a dozen of us regular AFD discussion closers, happy to play a part. Liz 03:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome! Yes, I did create it, because it must take so much effort for you (and the other closers) to do the pretty thankless task of reviewing ALL the AfDs that close every day and I thought a little recognition was in order. I thanked you first because from what I've you always throughly evaluate the consensus and close with reasonable ATDs that might not have been considered. So, thanks I guess! MolecularPilot 05:33, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, if I have a bias in closing AFDs, MolecularPilot, It's not for "Keep" or "Delete", it's for a valid ATD. But I found out early on when I first started that I can't introduce an ATD, it has to come out of the discussion. So, hopefully, a participant can find a relevant article to redirect to and bring it up in the discussion. Liz 05:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Deleted redirect from student mis-merging

Hi Liz,

Mülbach had been a bare stub in mainspace. Then a student-project began working on it in draft-space. It was recommended they merge the stub with the draft, which they did. But they did "stub merge+redirect to draft", rather than leaving the stub existing until the draft was ready to move to mainspace. Should the mainspace be undeleted and returned to the stub state, rather than losing mainspace content? DMacks (talk) 05:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, DMacks,

Feel free to do whatever you think is appropriate. It was just deleted as an CSD R2, cross-namespace redirect, not because of the content. Liz 06:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response! DMacks (talk) 06:06, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, DMacks, I"m trying to turn over a new leaf. I have been remiss in not replying to messages on my talk page very promptly. I was waiting until the end of the day to respond to them all and then something would come up. I'm trying a new way of responding to messages soon after they are posted. Wish me luck. Liz 06:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

"Good luck!" If you're in the northern hemisphere at the moment, perhaps you can find some nice autumn leaves for turning-over or shuffling-through. DMacks (talk) 06:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

An editor you blocked

Hello Liz, you recently blocked this editor from category namespace for improper editing there, and it appears they have now transferred that same behavior to file namespace. Can you please take a look and consider taking additional administrative action? Thanks. Left guide (talk) 09:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) It seems like the accounts has now been globally locked. Isabelle Belato 10:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the update, Isabelle Belato and Left guide. We have a number of sockmasters who focus on children's TV series and animated films and this was probably one of them. Liz 16:46, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Your light touch is needed

Hello Liz Dr. D. presents his compliments, respecting you to be one of the (alas, now very few) sensible and rational administrators of this community. Since Dr. D's group members do not edit Misplaced Pages article space, he requests yous to kindly arrange with like minded admins to Revdel all references to his bodies on this project, for which he shall be obliged. PS: that's a really cute kitten(meister). PPS: The medium is the message SumoAvocado (talk) 17:56, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SumoAvocado,

Welcome to my User talk page. First, I have no idea who Dr. D is so I wouldn't know how to search for references to him on this enormous project. If there aer specific edits you are concerned about, please provide a "diff" or link to an individual edit and I'll see whether or not it fits in with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. There usually has to be a good reason to remove content from an article (unsourced claim, BLP violation, copyright infringement, etc.) so if you could provide a reason why these mentions are unsuitable, that would be helpful. But first, you really have to first provide a real name before any action can be considered.

If you have any general questions about editing on Misplaced Pages or its policies and guidelines, please bring them to the Teahouse where experienced editors can offer you advice and support. I'm not always available but there is almost always someone available at the Teahouse to address any concerns you have. Liz 18:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for the prompt revert. Here's the diff. and here's Dr.D in conversation with famous journalist and author Iftikhar Gilani. Since we presently have no intention to edit in mainspace, your welcome offer of the Teahouse is politely postponed to a future date. (Sorry for any misunderstands, English is not my first language).SumoAvocado (talk) 19:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SumoAvocado,

Well, I see no reason to revert my comment on WP:ANI but I'm not sure that's even what you are asking of me. And you still haven't provided a name for who is this "Dr. D". I read through that link you shared and I didn't see anyone who is a "Dr." who had a last name that started with "D". Your intentions for your contributions on Misplaced Pages are unclear to me so I don't know how to respond to you. You are being very indirect and not spelling out what you want to happen. But discussions on Misplaced Pages are public and not censored as long as they don't violate our guidelines and policies. So, I guess, for the moment, this discussion is over. Liz 03:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Dr. R.S. Dalvi, CEO of Hindu Raksha Dal requests Administrators of Misplaced Pages (English version) to delete all references to Hindu Raksha Dal and "Hindu News" / "Hindunews.stream" from WMF hosted computer servers. Specifically, for the present, Hindu Raksha Dal desires that the following threads be REVDELed 1 and 2 as they contain unacceptable, derogatory language and ignorant opinions about the organisation and its projects. SumoAvocado (talk) 03:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I figured out you were referring to "Rajendra Singh Dalvi". I did a search on Misplaced Pages and he is not mentioned in any article on the project. I'm not going to delete entire discussions about the Hindu News and no other admin would either. That would be censorship. Just because a discussion can contain criticism does not make it defamatory. Discussing subjects in detail is how editors come to a consensus on how to treat sources and come to decisions.

If you want to make a complaint to WMF about this, I recommend going to the Teahouse and asking them how to contact our parent organization. Liz 04:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Certain privileged confidential material criminally misappropriated from a private website of Hindu News is being discussed on your website by strangers to the Hindu Raksha Dal/HRA. In these discussions highly disparaging and derogatory remarks are being made about Hindu Raksha Dal (an intensely private body) and its projects. Your editors have no cause to discuss HRD / HRA (private bodies) or its private projects, it's a blatant violation of your CoC. When an HRD rep visits your website to protest he gets blocked. When we approach WMF (in the past) they say they have no editorial control over this website. Having previously gotten these matters escalated all the way up to the Supreme Court of India (where WMF was severely rapped for its selfsame stand) on the 2024 Kolkata rape/murder victim naming issue, HRD is now left with limited options (incl. but not limited to enforcing its own CoC in place of WMF's). If complaints to Senior Administrators of this website go unheeded it only spirals the situation, especially since HRD/HRA is not your typical "rule of law abiding" aggrieved stranger coming here to complain. NB: When WMF pleaded "no censorship" to the Supreme Court of India, they were told categorically WMF would be blocked in India. Its a slippery slope. If legally ill informed Misplaced Pages editors generate content about a private Indian organisation that contravenes India's cyber, media and criminal laws , we should not be told that only US law and Misplaced Pages (English) policies like "no censorship" apply. SumoAvocado (talk) 07:09, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

SumoAvocado, I've already advised you to go to the Teahouse if you want to get in touch with WMF. Additional comments here, trying to itimidate me into doing what you ask, will have no effect so I see reason to continue this conversation. I do not know anything about the Indian courts, I'm just an administrator, taking care of my daily tasks and my concern is the health of the project, not your organization. I advise you not to make any legal threats which would result in a swift block of your account. Since your interest seems to be into debating and not actually contributing to this project, I'll ask you politely to move on from my User talk page and find something more productive to do with your time. Good bye. Liz 07:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

We have more than one email communication from WMF Legal (eg. from WMF erstwhile counsel Michelle Paulson -Date: Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:27 AM-, and/or jpgordon, and/or legal@wikimedia.org "On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation") asking us to reach out directly to Misplaced Pages (English) admins in such situation. Because you are an Admin who has posted multiple messages on the Administrators Notice Board thread we are concerned with and in accordance with the afore described WMF communications to us, we are reaching out to you, and you specifically, to get those 2 threads entirely redacted / revdelled IN GOOD FAITH as contrary to US Law in addition to Indian law, as well as WMF's CoC and ToU. We are puzzled why you feel intimidated. As an Administrator of this website and its policies, surely you are obliged to follow the policies of your website and those of your media hosts which we are approaching you to enforce with the administrative tools at your disposal which are not available to us. SumoAvocado (talk) 08:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Invitation for Your Insight and Guidance

Hello Liz,

I am Muhammad, and while you don’t know me, I’ve noticed and greatly admire your work on improving Misplaced Pages. I’m reaching out because I’ve recently been given a 72-hour block (that's now expired), but I’m still not entirely clear on the reason behind it.

I saw your comment on my prior talk page , and it seems you may be familiar with my actions. I’m open to discussing the situation further in case there has been any misunderstanding or if I missed something. Any insight you have to help me understand the reasons behind the block would be truly appreciated.

I’ve written a response here and would be grateful if you could take a moment to review it. I’m more than willing to engage in a constructive conversation to clarify things and if I had indeed done something wrong to get 72 hours, I will take responsibility for those actions. But it's hard to take responsibility when you don't even understand the error.

Thank you so much for your time and consideration.49.180.201.206 (talk) 23:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 49.180.201.206,

If you are evading a block, please stop editing right now. Wait for your block to end and then we can talk. Block evasion can result in a much longer block for your original account, lasting weeks and months, not 72 hours. This is a short block and don't do anything to jeopardize your original account. Liz 23:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

No, I had waited until the entire 72 hours is over before asking you on your talk. (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:BlockList&ip=49.181.58.245) There's no current block because it had expired almost one day ago. I know it's short so that's not a big deal. What's a big deal is not even understanding it. 49.180.201.206 (talk) 00:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 49.180.201.206,

Well, I'm glad to hear that your original block is over. I have posted a response to you on the User talk page of your original account, the one that got blocked. I'm sure you won't be satisfied by my comments but it's the best advice I can offer you. I'm not saying that your block wasn't a "big deal", every block is a big deal to the person who has been blocked. But if you want to continue to edit here in harmony with the community, you need to move past this block and work on improving the articles and other productive work you could do. Think less of the past and more about the positive ways you can contribute from here on out. Liz 03:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The conversation with SumoAvocado

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 09:00, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I know you are more than capable of handling this incident yourself, as you have been. Sometimes, though, the protector needs protection. I hope I have not overstepped the mark here. If I have, and if I have upset you in any manner over this, first please accept my apologies, and second please ask me to withdraw the ANI report. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 09:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I actually only came by to thank you for offering bludgeoning advice to the Gerard Gertoux editor. The SumoAvocado behaviour offended me greatly. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 09:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

To be honest, Timtrent, I wasn't pleased that you brought this discussion to ANI because while I, in general, agree with removing vandals, I didn't think I need "protecting" from this particular conversation. And also I was wondering how far this editor was going to go with their demands. But I didn't object here, or at ANI, because I had ended the discussion here and I thought that this subject of threats against Misplaced Pages is bigger than me and this User talk page and my interactions with this editor. I was considering sharing this discussion on AN but that was just to inform other administrators about the revision deletion demands, not to take action against the editor. But now that NRP has identified the editor as a probable sock, if I had known that earlier, I would have blocked them myself. But I see you had good intentions when you took your action. Liz 20:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz I was in two minds over this. Please accept my apologies for the displeasure I have caused you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 21:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, no, Timtrent, no apologies are necessary. I know that you do what you do for the benefit from the project and clearly this was an attempt to exert undue influence over our discussions and content. As a woman, the language of "protection" probably strikes me differently than if I was male or gender fluid.

But I also appreciate having editors watch my user talk page because, for some reason, I seem to have a lot of socks and bad actors reach out to me, maybe it's because I'm female, I don't know. Additionally, I do try to engage with some blocked editors to help them understand why they have been blocked and perhaps that is an unwise use of my time and I should rethink that activity. Liz 22:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

You may not believe this, but I had not considered your gender, your username notwithstanding. I see you as a valued colleague, no more and no less. I consider Misplaced Pages editors to be equal in every respect with each other. I think I need to stop digging this hole now!

Juxtaposed with Trump I can now see why that wording would upset, though. It was an inappropriate word choice. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 22:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

That's Blaxstocatamazon or someone related. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Peer pressure

I know there is usually a last-minute rush but at the moment we don't even have enough candidates to fill the open spots. And although several former arbs are running, the committee needs people who aren't as jaded and prone to burnout. I think you could bring the perspective of a very hard-working admin who knows what it is like to be in the trenches to the committee, something that it may be a bit thin on right now. I'm also more or less positive you'd get in if you ran.

The process really isn't so bad, you answer a bunch of questions, maybe a few people comment on your discussion page, that's pretty much it, the rest is just waiting. I expect it will be considerably easier for you than it is going to be for me. Just Step Sideways 00:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Just Step Sideways,

I actually just posted my statement but had some glitches so if you could double-check it, that would be awesome. I noticed during the same half hour, that two other admins also posted their statements so maybe this is the beginning of the last minute rush. But thanks for the encouragement. Liz 00:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Good luck, Liz! Though I'm sure JSS is right and you don't need much extra luck. There's lots of folks on standby ready to pick up the slack if you have to drop some of that hard work you do to handle ArbCom business instead. :) -- asilvering (talk) 02:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

asilvering, you know, besides repeating the horrendous experience that was my RFA, the other reason I was hesitating to file was because I greatly enjoy the work I do as an admin and it keeps me very, very busy. I'm reluctant to let that go as it provides me with little boosts of energy throughout the day. But, if I am elected, we'll talk more and maybe I can start delegating some of the projects that I spend time on to other competent administrators who might have some time on their hands (just/kidding) Liz 02:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I look forward to supporting both of your candidacies @Just Step Sideways @Liz (and full disclosure, a root vegetable of whom I'm quite fond). You are exactly what ArbComm needs to move this project forward in its next decade but also amid this world mess which will lead to more CTs and not less. Good luck! Star Mississippi 02:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Star Mississippi, I appreciate your support, as always. Liz 02:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Great to see you run Liz! Best of luck with your candidacy. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 03:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

And the same to you, Daniel. Good luck! Liz 03:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

ooh another one I'll be supporting. Didn't realize you were running @Daniel. Star Mississippi 13:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, things are looking much better this morning. Best of luck. Just Step Sideways 16:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Indefinite semiprotection of ANI

Hi, Liz. You have semiprotected ANI from editing indefinitely, which is very unique and surely not desirable. Usually it gets protected for 6 or 12 hours or a few days at most. Did you perhaps misclick and mean to semi moving the page indefinitely, which is usual, and from editing for 3 days? Bishonen | tålk 09:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC).

Oh, never mind, I see you changed it as I was posting, with ECR protection for 3 hours. Mind you, I still think moving the page should be indefinitely limited to admins. Basically, nobody needs to move it. Bishonen | tålk 09:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC).

That was a mistake, I meant to semi-protect it for 3 days but it sounds like even that would be too long. I'm not sure why the default duration of protection is "infinite". I didn't want to protect for only extended confirmed editors but this troll seemed to have an infinite number of accounts and reverting them was burning up our supply of editors. But it's just for 3 hours, hopefully, long enough for him to get bored and move on. But sorry for my mistake. Liz 09:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

No problem, and I see you caught it yourself. The short ECR protection is novel but seems a good idea in this situation. (But, sorry to go on about it, what about the move protection? Move vandalism is quite popular, if the trolls get a chance with a major page.) Bishonen | tålk 10:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC).

Books & Bytes – Issue 65

The Misplaced Pages Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 65, September – October 2024

• Hindu Tamil Thisai joins The Misplaced Pages Library
• Frankfurt Book Fair 2024 report
• Tech tip: Mass downloads

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Misplaced Pages Library team --12:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to participate in Misplaced Pages research

Hello,

I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Misplaced Pages. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its Meta page and view its privacy statement.

Take the survey here.

Kind Regards,

WMF Research Team

BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 00:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment

Hi Liz! I hope it's ok to reach out with this suggestion, you know so much more about Misplaced Pages than I do but I'm wondering if I might be able to help a little with blocked editors, considering what you've said? I've been working on getting more experience with editing (specifically with the Typo Team) as you kindly suggested, along with some basic copy editing of random articles. I've come across editors who were otherwise decent, but became embroiled in a dispute to the point that they lost perspective & wouldn't drop the stick.

They were angry because they cared about their work but let it get the best of them & just needed someone to acknowledge their feelings, so I continued on their Talk page to say if I could help. I'm glad to say that it definitely did and the stick was dropped - you can see the discussion link in the Barnstar on my Talk page if you want to see an example, or I can post a direct link for you?

If you come across someone who you think might benefit from a similar positive message on their Talk, feel free to let me know and I'll be happy to do so! I realise how busy you are (and will be, I can see everyone's rooting for you for Arb!). Needless to say, I'm too inexperienced to discuss the reasons for a block, policies, other people's actions etc., so I absolutely will not discuss that. If things go awry I'll immediately stop and seek advice. TLDR: If you come across someone who might need a positive post please let me know; similarly if you don't think this is a good idea then I completely understand, I just wanted to throw this out there to see if I can help 🙂 Blue-Sonnet (talk) 05:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Blue-Sonnet,

I moved your comment to start a new discussion as it had nothing to do with the rather intense conversation that you placed this in the middle of. Please do not insert content that is not relevant to a discussion, especially in the middle of an ongoing conversation. I don't think you have enough editing experience to be advising other editors (maybe when you are extended confirmed) but I encourage your efforts to deescalate situations. We always need more peacemakers as long as they aren't telling other, more experienced editors what to do. That will not be appreciated. Liz 05:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Bojan Ilievski (deleted page)

Hello,

Two years ago I created a page for Bojan Ilievski after his debut for the Macedonia National Team. You deleted it, saying he is irrelevant and it was only one friendly game. He is now summoned again by the national team for the upcoming UEFA National League fixtures. Is there a possibility to bring back his page?

Greetings. Msb73505 (talk) 10:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

I assume you are talking about the article that was deleted through Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bojan Ilievski? First, I didn't say anything about the quality of the article or the notability of the subject, I just assessed the consensus arising out of the discussion and closed it. I have no opinion on the subject.

Secondly, I'm willing to restore this article to Draft space or User space but you MUST submit the draft to Articles for Creation for review. If you just move it back to main space, it will be tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G4 which is for articles deleted through AFD that have been recreated. It will then be much, much more difficult to restore it a second time. Are you willing to do this? If not, then it is better to write a new article in Draft space from scratch. Thank you. Liz 19:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Restoration of Ivy Wolk

Hi Liz. Still wondering if you could possibly restore my userspace draft for Ivy Wolk so that I could get a look at it and possibly move some things to the page that exists there now. Thanks! benǝʇᴉɯ 18:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Benmite,

First, sorry that I didn't follow up your original request that is somewhere in the middle of this User talk page. I typically just look at the bottom of this page and can miss updates to older discussions.

Secondly, as you mention, there is an article, Ivy Wolk, in main space that was moved from Draft space. Is there yet another version of this article that was deleted? Please provide me with a link to the page of the deleted article so I can look into the circumstances of its deletion. Thank you. Liz 19:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Totally fine! The draft I'm talking about was located at User:Benmite/Ivy Wolk. I moved it to mainspace before it got deleted so I'm not sure if the page's history will still be intact, but let me know if it is. benǝʇᴉɯ 19:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Benmite,

Sorry for the delay, I've been busy with other work on the project. Here's what I can see, there is only one deleted edit at User:Benmite/Ivy Wolk so there is no content on that page. However, there was content that you made at Ivy Wolk which had gotten deleted when the article was tagged for speedy deletion CSD A7, G4. I have restored your edits now that this article has gone through a deletion review. I did not restore deleted content that was removed through an AFD discussion deletion and I don't think I could, but that is not what you are asking for. However, even though this content has been returned to the page history, do not revert this article back to your original edits. The edits remain there as a source of content you could draw from to add to the new version of this article but do not just restore this article back to a version of the one you created. That would erase all of the work that has been done since this new version was created. Make sense? Thank you. Liz 23:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Recent revert

Hi Liz, There has been major disruption in the article and the version you restored for maintaining the Afd tag is about a different politician. It was earlier about a different person who is serving as a minister in Government of Bihar. But, now the version you restored is about a poltician, who is not notable. Adamantine123 (talk) 16:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• See, this person File:Chief Minister Nitish Kumar with minister Santosh Kumar Singh (cropped).jpg, about whom the article was earlier is notable, but someone changed it to present version, and this person with same name is not notable.Adamantine123 (talk) 16:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Adamantine123,

The AFD might have the same outcome that you were trying to achieve with this article. It's just that once an AFD has been opened, it can't be bypassed. Tags should not be removed or the article redirected, moved to Draft space or blanked until the AFD is closed. Your best bet is to go to the AFD discussion, if you haven't already, and make your case there. If it is persuasive, you'll probably achieve the results you want. But the decision has to come out of the AFD discussion consensus. Liz 00:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Advanced rights

Hi Liz,

I no longer need any of my advanced rights. Can you please remove them? BilledMammal (talk) 02:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I removed the rights for you BilledMammal. Fathoms Below (talk) 07:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Fathoms Below. I'm not sure what brought this on, BilledMammal but I hope you are okay. Liz 07:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I didn't action this as closer of the ANI but echo @Liz's concerns. Don't hesitate to be in touch @BilledMammal Star Mississippi 19:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

About

I don't understand why Primefac blocked Saqib by --Sunuraju (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)

ArbComm blocks such as this will not be discussed in public @Sunuraju

Given your close call at SPI, I'd suggest a focus on articles. Star Mississippi 23:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Sunuraju,

I was surprised, too, so I inquired about the block at Primefac's User talk page even though I expected the reply that I did receive. But Star Mississippi is correct, ArbCom blocks are not discussed publicly so we'll just have to accept what is as reality. But know, if Saqib wants to be unblocked, they can appeal their block, also, to ArbCom for review. Liz 00:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

no rush and no answer needed. Star Mississippi 01:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

ANI closure

Re , I think it was clear enough there wasn't going to be any more bickering, so I wonder about your comment. I'll take minor offense to the half of it directed at me. No big deal. The main point there was that GoodDay was in the wrong from the start of that issue, and never said as much (nor did anyone else). Cheers, ―Mandruss ☎ 12:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Mandruss & I were both in the wrong, IMHO. That being said, I thank you for the close. GoodDay (talk) 16:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Mandruss, I apologize if you found the word "bickering" as implying that you didn't have a valid reason for opening a complaint. That's not what I meant. By bickering, what I typically mean is a discussion that goes back and forth between two editors who disagree, that is not moving towards a resolution. I closed the discussion because I've found is that, often, on ANI, the longer a complaint stays open, the more frequently it receives unhelpful comments from the peanut gallery that watches noticeboards. I also see that the longer a complaint is open, the more likely it is that sanctions will be imposed on one or both of the editors involved and I did see that as an appropriate outcome to this dispute. You outlined your disagreement, there was a response, GoodDay withdrew from participating on that article which seemed like it resolved the problems you cited. If it instead continues on a different article, you are welcome to open a new complaint and cite this one for reference.

I see my job as an administrator on ANI as trying to resolve and deescalate disputes and so this was my mindset when I closed this discussion. Liz 23:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were referring to bickering between me and GoodDay, which had clearly ended some time before your closure. withdrew from participating on that article which seemed like it resolved the problems you cited No, the problem was resolved (far too late) by GoodDay's self-revert. Their participation at the article was never an issue—as I said in the ANI thread. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Signature controversy

You have sparked a major scolding operation on my User Talk Page on a irrelevant thread which was not supposed to be some sort of discussion so I moved it to a new section UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 02:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, UnsungHistory,

Except that you invented a new header that I didn't add. I don't think of this as a "controversy", other editors are just sharing their opinions. Look at any long-term editor's User talk page and you'll see a mixture of compliments and complaints. And, believe me, this is not a "scolding" and I definitely didn't start anything. You moved my comment down from the middle of the page, where no one would have noticed it, to its place at the bottom of the page, where editors are trained to look for new messages.

You seem to be ignoring the advice that experienced editors are offering you which is to focus more on improving articles and less on the "discussion" aspects of Misplaced Pages. We are an encyclopedia, not a forum or social media channel. Please focus less on socializing and more on article improvement. Liz 02:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Request undeleting Lisa Winning

I am requesting restoration of this article deleted in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lisa Winning, I believe circumstances have changed, and I plan to rewrite the article. 24eeWikiUser (talk) 05:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 24eeWikiUser,

I can not restore an article that was deleted through the AFD deletion discussion process. Your best bet is to start a new article in Draft space. If you think my closure was an incorrect reading of the consensus of participants, you can make an appeal at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. Liz 06:09, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Liz,

It is noted, thank you.

Happy editing! 24eeWikiUser (talk) 06:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

15.ai Controversy

Ugh. It was unpleasant on WP:AN, but I had no idea, and you probably no idea, just how ugly it would get on WP:ANI so quickly.

I will be back in about three hours, and will post something, but I have no idea what will happen in the meantime. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Robert McClenon,

Well, thank you for sharing your DRN experience on the ANI complaint. I've been reading over the pages related to this subject and it seems like folks are basically in agreement now. It helps when you remove sockpuppets from the conversation. Liz 18:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Once in a while an obvious offense such as sockpuppetry makes it easier to deal with a messy situation. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Best Wishes

Hi Liz, I noticed that you are running for Arbcom elections. I want to wish you good luck for it. Maliner (talk) 10:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Maliner,

Thank you, I'll accept your good wishes! Liz 18:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 November 2024

• News and notes: Open letter to WMF about court case breaks one thousand signatures, big arb case declined, U4C begins accepting cases

• In the media: Summons issued for Misplaced Pages editors by Indian court, "Gaza genocide" RfC close in news, old admin Gwern now big AI guy, and a "spectrum of reluctance" over Australian place names

• Recent research: SPINACH: AI help for asking Wikidata "challenging real-world questions"

• News from the WMF: Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Endowment audit reports: FY 2023–2024

• Traffic report: Well, let us share with you our knowledge, about the electoral college

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Just as a technical matter ...

It's not like there is a big red button that an admin or arbitrator can push to cause a blackout to happen. Actually, any admin with the interface-administrator bit could do this, in various ways, depending exactly on what was meant by "blackout", like what level of blacking out the community intended. If the idea were extreme, to literally make the content unavailable except to technical experts, then changing the CSS of most of the important divs and other elements to display: none; would do the trick. If it were to visually hide the content at first but still make it accessible with a little effort (and have no effect on users of screen readers), a common means, used for spoilers and such at various websites, is to make the text the same color as the background so that it has to be selected with the mouse (causing a highlight color) before it can be read. A third approach is simply visible effect; the original web blackouts (which I helped originate back in the '90s) did not render the page unreadable at all, but simply changed content and most other site elements to black with light-colored text on top, so it was stark and a major change (well, except maybe for some goth scene and horror film and death-metal music sites, heh). The usual approach is then to provide a message spelling out why things have gone black, to raise awareness about whatever the issue is.

I argued in the RfC why this was a poor idea for something like this in particular (complicated legal questions few would understand, yet an activism method designed to generate an immediate "no!" reaction, with a target, which in this case would basically be a WMF hand attacking to cut off WMF's own nose to spite its face).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SMcCandlish,

I appreciate the technical explanation. It is disconcerting to me that one admin, with a certain degree of privileges, could cause a blackout to happen. This is like blanking the main page, there should be safeguards in place. I don't think this is how things should work, that one person could unilaterally make this happen. Liz 04:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, they could do it and then get immediately desysopped for vandalism or something akin to it (mega-POINT?). Ultimately, for any "big deal" there will be some gatekeepers whom we have to trust. Someone somewhere has to be able to edit the "interface" pages including our CSS specifications, just as a technical matter. I suppose that the "pending changes" system or something like it could be bent to putting any such change on hold until another interface-admin approved it, but I'm not sure how much that would impede interface-admins' normal workflow.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

cand q

Thank you for standing for arbitrator. I am far away from it all (travel, mourning), not in the mood, so just an informal question you can answer or ignore:

• Liviu Holender chose lieder by five composers whose music was banned by the Nazis—Schreker, Zemlinsky, Mahler, Korngold and Schönberg—for a recital at the Oper Frankfurt.

What does this 2024 DYK tell you about infoboxes for classical composers in 2024? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Gerda Arendt,

Oh, Gerda! You are one of my favorite editors and are such a positive presence on the project. But I really do not have strong opinions on infoboxes and I don't really know what your take is on that long-ago arbitration case. Sometimes, infoboxes can provide a useful summary of information for biographical or historical articles and sometimes, they are completely unnecessary. ARBCOM doesn't rule on content decisions or MOS issues but on disruption caused by editors so I just hope that if there are still disputes about infoboxes, they can be resolved at the appropriate noticeboard or policy talk page and not erupt into a dispute that finds its way to an arbitration case request.

I'm sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer but I really am neutral on infoboxes and would support whatever decision a consensus of editors has come to on an article talk page. But I support content creators all the way! Liz 05:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, but sorry, I don't think you got the question. There was an arbcase in 2013, but the "contentious topic" came in a later one. Do we still need it? Look at discussions on the talk of 5 composers and tell me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

November was rich in sadness and happiness for me, expressed in music. Regarding my question, I found one so far who looked into the matter and didn't stay at the surface, Simonm223. There are two composers on the Main page today, Siegfried Thiele and Aaron Copland. I find the response of my friend Jerome Kohl to a question on Copland's article talk promising. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Today's story comes from a DYK about a concert that fascinated me, and you can listen! For my taste, the hook has too little music - I miss the unusual scoring and the specific dedication - but it comes instead with a name good for viewcount. I'd still like to know what you think about the Copland posts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

On the Main page today Jean Sibelius on his birthday. Listening to Beethoven's Fifth from the opening of Notre-Dame de Paris. We sang in choirs today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to the (new) Perplexities after Escher. - Congratulations to being elected! Could you look at Samuel Barber and tell me if you miss something in his infobox? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to Beethoven's 3rd cello sonata, on his birthday - it was a hook in the 2020 DYK set when his 250th birthday was remembered. I picked a recording with Antônio Meneses, because he was on my sad list this year, and I was in Brazil (see places), and I love his playing. - I can report happily that the Barber situation was resolved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I come to fix the cellist's name, with a 10-years-old DYK and new pics - look for red birds --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Liz is wheel warring. Thank you. ✗plicit 08:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. qcne (talk) 09:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz I emailed you hours ago explaining the situation, and have just had to go to Oversight again to request suppression of the ANI thread where you and @Explicit disclosed the supressed username. Utterly stupid behaviour. qcne (talk) 13:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Request for retrieval of a deleted article: Functional Diamond

Hi Liz,

I published an article about an academic journal, Functional Diamond, almost a year ago, which you deleted in Jan this year for the reason that the journal is not notable enough. After a year's progress, now the journal has been indexed in ESCI. So, I think it has reached the requirements and hope you could restore the article. Thank you very much :)

Randypanda90 Randypanda90 (talk) 10:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Randypanda90,

Can you provide me with a link to the deleted article? Then I can look into the circumstances of the deletion which will impact how or if I can help you. Just write ]. Thank you. Liz 18:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Liz,

Sure, I added a link to the topic title. Hope that could help. Thank you so much for your help! Randypanda90 (talk) 02:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Randypanda90,

 Done Functional Diamond was deleted as a Proposed deletion which can be restored upon editor request so I have done so. However, I know the editor who tagged this article for proposed deletion and they are likely to start an AFD deletion discussion on this article in the near future. I recommend editing it in order to improve the article and address any problems stated in the PROD tag which you can see in the page history. Good luck! Liz 02:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

APH

Misplaced Pages SBSBOWBET12 (talk) 15:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SBSBOWBET12,

I'm going to need more context here. APH? Liz 18:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Quick note

Hi Liz Just a quick note to say I hope you're ok after those inappropriate and disrespectful comments at ANI. I want to put on the record that I and many others appreciate your work here, particularly in AfD, PRODs and categorisation. Explicit also does important work which is why it was pretty disappointing to see that whole mess at ANI. AusLondonder (talk) 18:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, AusLondonder,

Well, actually, I'm just getting up and I haven't looked at ANI since the complaint was posted so I haven't seen anything new that was added to it. But this has been simmering a while, at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review, several times they have called for me to resign and they were so vitriolic on my User talk page years ago, that I asked them to stop posting here except for required messages. After 11 years, they are the only person I've asked to stop posting here and that includes trolls! But, my mistake, I haven't been collecting diffs over the years so depending on what they say, it could take a while for me to defend myself. I'll head over there in a few minutes. Thanks though for your support. Liz 18:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

a social work book collection

i recently found a website started by a social worker academic which is a database of open source (freely available) social work textbooks on every course a social worker would need to take from entry all the way to an advanced practice degree. will be useful for building Misplaced Pages articles. also please spread the word if any social workers you know would benefit. URL: https://opensocialwork.org/textbooks/ RJJ4y7 (talk) 12:53, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

G13 reports

Hi, I have created a G13 report at User:GalaxyBot/Reports/G13 eligible drafts. It filters out all bot edits, including those by CommonsDelinker bot, and identifies drafts that haven't been edited by a human editor in six months. My bot updates it every hour. Please feel free to use it if you find it useful. – DreamRimmer (talk) 09:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks DreamRimmer. We generally make useful of the lists created by SDZeroBot but it always helps to have multiple sources of information plus you list the drafts last edited by a bot which is invaluable. Thank you for your work and for letting me know about it. Liz 09:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/1993 in Croatian television

Just a reminder/clarification that I expect a response from you at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/1993 in Croatian television. Thanks. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 22:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I dream of horses,

I didn't know you were waiting for a response from me so thank you for the reminder. Liz 00:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Green redirects

I came across your comment at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Melee (game terminology) (closed a few hours ago). I appreciate your work of informing editors that redirects aren't suitable targets for redirecting/merging; I just wanted to let you know that redirects are blue for most editors (they're only green for you because you've installed User:Anomie/linkclassifier). jlwoodwa (talk) 05:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, jlwoodwa,

Okay, well thanks for letting me know. I've been editing for over 11 years now and have so many scripts installed that I am not always cognizant of how my view of a page is different from another editor's. But it's amazing how often editors will suggest a target page for a redirect that is also a redirect. I guess they don't go and check it out first. Liz 20:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

RFPP request

Hi Liz, if you have time would you consider actioning this request ? Thanx, - FlightTime (open channel) 20:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, FlightTime,

I don't patrol RFPP much but I don't really see vandalism occurring, just overlinking some words. Is there more that I'm not seeing here? Liz 20:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks like Isabelle Belato did a range block here so that should take care of your problem. Liz 20:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Loretanos

I deleted https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft%3ALoretanos&action=history as an abandoned draft, but now in the history note that you had undeleted it the day before. Was the draft refunded to a requestor? Should I undelete it? Thanks. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 03:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, rsjaffe,

Oh, this is very embarrassing to me. For CSD G13s, we use lists produced by SDZeroBot that, a week ahead of time, produces a list of upcoming stale deletes. See User:SDZeroBot/G13 soon. I regularly keep 7 tabs open for the subsequent days of the week that are coming up. Accidentally, last night, I started deleting stale drafts that were due to expire on 11/25 UTC, instead of 11/24 UTC. I was a day off because I had closed one of the tabs. After a couple of hours, I realized my mistake and just restored all of the drafts I deleted a day early. It probably makes no difference at all, I mean, no one has edited these pages in 6 months but you should always check the page history to make sure there are no recent edits to the drafts.

Given the discussion on ANI last week, I didn't want to delete any page early since that was mentioned as a problem. So, go ahead, there is no reason not to delete these pages now that it actually IS 11/25 UTC. But I appreciate you checking in with me. Over the past 5 years I've been working with CSD G13s, this has only happened to me one other time so I don't expect this to be a regular occurrence. Liz 03:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. From what I can see (User:GalaxyBot/Reports/G13 eligible drafts), those have been taken care of now. And no need to be embarrassed by a mistake: I'm accumulating a few of my own that I hope remain one-offs! — rsjaffe 🗣️ 03:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, rsjaffe,

That GalaxyBot report is very, very new. It's only been around for a day or two and you can see DreamRimmer announcing it right here. It was originally a list to report drafts whose last edit was by a bot, that wouldn't show up on the SDZeroBot report, but it's turning out to be useful in other ways, too. Liz 03:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Hi! Just sent a message to inquire about some Misplaced Pages wisdom. Would be grateful for any insight you can offer! Maperturas 99 (talk) 08:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

HI Liz, My Self Sujit Kumar Mishra, I'm author and actor. Last time year I have created wiki page for me. but that time lot's of mistake and my profile was deleted by you I think. So Now I want to create my new wiki pages. How Can I Start Pls. Guide me, Thanks Advance. Sujit0601 (talk) 14:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Sujit0601, can you give me a link to the deleted page? Perhaps it can be restored. As for advice on editing on Misplaced Pages, I'd recommend bringing your questions to the Teahouse. The Teahouse is a forum to help new editors with learning about editing here. I don't really spend time advising editors on content creation. Liz 02:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Quarry help

Hi Liz. You seem to be familiar with Quarry? I'm rather hopeless with SQL. Could this be used to produce a list of articles created (excl redirects) by an individual user? I got a bit carried away trimming my watchlist and want to make sure I have them all captured. xtools.wmcloud.org doesn't work due to edit count and I can't find any other way. If not, are you aware of any other tools? No urgency at all for this .. only if/when you have time. Thanks. Jevansen (talk) 23:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Jevansen,

Welcome to my user talk page. Am I familiar with Quarry? Well, yes and no. I run queries on Quarry throughout the day and so I make use of it a lot. But as for the queries themselves, the ones I use were all written by more technically-savvy editors than I. That happens a lot on Quarry, an editor will find a query that produces some report they are interested in and then they "fork" it or make their own copy.

One way to find editors that might know more about writing queries than I, is by looking at a list of recently run queries and see which editors are using Quarry. If you are friends with one of the editors who appear, you might try approaching them. But from looking at this list, I see DreamRimmer who just wrote an awesome query that helped us find expiring draft that had last been edited by a bot. Perhaps they would be able to whip up a query to help you.

You also might try Misplaced Pages:Request a query. I once wanted to find out how many Teahouse invitations I had posted (which was in the tens of thousands) and someone there helped me with it.

As for Watchlists, I'm the LAST editor to give advice there as I have over 200,000 pages on my Watchlist. I made the mistake of checking off a box that added every page I edit to my Watchlist which makes it practically useless to me now. I'm not even sure how to get it down to a manageable 10-20,000 page list.

I hope there is some advice here you can use. Liz 02:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jevansen, you can use this query. – DreamRimmer (talk) 03:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

It's like magic, DreamRimmer! I didn't even have to say your name three times and you appear! Liz 03:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer & Liz – Thank you both. That's perfect. Jevansen (talk) 03:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Requesting review Radhikaraje Gaekwad

Hi @ Liz. I hope you’re doing well. Recently I created this article about a Radhikaraje Gaekwad is one of the most progressive Maharani of India. Can you please review it? This has gone unnoticed for a while.Can you please tell me when and how will this article appear as the top search result when someone will search the topic? Radhikaraje Gaekwad dsrprj (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, dsrprj,

I'm not sure what you are asking for here. Radhikaraje Gaekwad has been a main space article since July 2024. When editors ask for a "review", it's typically of a draft article and they are asking if it is ready to move to main space. Main space articles are only reviewed by our New Page Patrollers and it doesn't look like any have examined it yet. But after all of these months that have passed, it's unlikely to be reviewed by a NPP now because they review recently created articles.

As for Google search results, that's nothing Misplaced Pages has control over. But you might get better advice than I can offer if you pose your question at the Teahouse, there are a lot of experienced editors there and maybe one of them knows more than I about search engine results.

If the problem is you want this article deleted, I suggest looking at WP:PROD or WP:AFD which can give you guidance on tagging an article for deletion. Liz 02:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

response

it IS relevant. wikipedia has a shortage of articles on many important concepts in the social work profession. my purpose in sharing the link was to jumpstart the building of wikipedia articles in this aria. and since the "wikiproject social work" is pretty much dead, I'm enlisting the help of wikiprojects sociology and psychology which are the closest academic disciplines to social work. what else should i do ? RJJ4y7 (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Can you restore Category:French speculative fiction short stories?

I'll populate it now with some entries based on pl:Kategoria:Francuskie opowiadania fantastyczne (I am not sure if there is a Wikidata entry to link) _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Piotr,

 Done That was an easy request to fulfill. Liz 03:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Can you now undelete Category:Speculative fiction short stories by nationality - we have several subcategories now (I'll populate it). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done Liz 06:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Quick cleanup

Is it necessary to promptly and systematically remove all links to articles deleted at PROD? E.g. It makes it much harder to fully restore these articles in the event they are deleted in error (which happens frequently at PROD IME). ~Kvng (talk) 18:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Kvng,

I hope you are having a good week. This is a more complicated question than it appears. It started when I first became an admin in 2015 and I was instructed that when I deleted a page, I should remove all of the red links. So, that's been my practice for the past 9 years. But lately, for PROD deletions (it doesn't seem to come up with AFD deletions), I've been asked to not just leave the red links but to go to each article and remove all of the references to the deleted article completely. Since some articles are linked to dozens of related articles, this could be very time-intensive additional work to do when you are focused on admin tasks, like I am.

I'd question you on two points: Is it really that hard, if a PROD'd article is restored, to undo my edits? Is it that they are hard to find amidst my long Contributions list? They are usually mentioned in my edit summaries and my guesstimate is that only about 1 out or 20 PROD'd articles is later restored. Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean by "deleted in error" for a PROD'd article. Are you simply asserting that, if you had known about these tagged articles you would have removed the PROD tag? Because all admins I know who review PROD'd articles make sure they have not been PROD'd or to AFD before so I'm not sure what you are referring to as an "error". Additionally, I'm not the only admin who reviews and deletes PROD'd articles so if you want this unlinking behavior to end, it should probably be discussed at Misplaced Pages talk:Proposed deletion.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide. Liz 22:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I think you're right, we should discuss this at Misplaced Pages talk:Proposed deletion. I'll open a discussion.

Can you tell me where you receive these directions to delete links and mentions as part of deletion?

By error I mostly mean that WP:ATD has not been respected as I believe was the case with 8-N-1 recently. I have suspended my WP:PRODPATROL activities because it is not a workload I can sustain. When I have been active, I tend to deprod over 30% of proposals. Your assessment is 5%. I wonder why there is such a big discrepancy here. ~Kvng (talk) 15:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Kvng,

First, I appreciate the work you do with PROD'd articles. They don't get the kind of attention that articles nominated for AFD discussions receive. CSD-tagged articles and pages receive even less attention and are more difficult to restore than PRODs but that's another discussion that can occur at WT:CSD one day. I'm sorry you can't sustain your PROD patrolling as we only have a few other editors who keep up with PROD'd articles and then tend to focus on specific types of articles like ones about Olympians or films. Unfortunately, we don't have many "generalists" like yourself.

As for numbers, we are talking about apples and oranges here. Your figure is the number of tagged articles that you have de-PROD'd. I was talking about the number of articles and files that are deleted through Proposed deletion that are end up being restored through WP:REFUND or through a request to the deleting administrator. Also, I said my figure was a guesstimate that is just based on how many articles I delete as PRODs vs. how many articles I'm asked to restore. So, I wouldn't put any money on my figure.

I hope you have a pleasant weekend! Liz 02:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense. I've never tried to assess how many prodded articles are restored (not an easy task for a non-administrator). I'm surprised it is 1 in 20. That means that as many as 1 in 6 iffy prods are being restored. I assumed that having to make a REFUND request and the near cloak of invisibility on deleted articles would provide a higher barrier than that. I don't know whether to be encouraged or discouraged by this information. ~Kvng (talk) 15:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

_Dgw|Talk 19:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Dorian Gray Wild,

I can't find an email message from you. When did you send it to me? Liz 04:32, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, on Nov 26.

I sent it again now, at 2:39 UTC.

There were not urgent issues, mainly replies. _Dgw|Talk 02:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I sent two topics on Dec. 3, 5:22 pm UTC and today, 3:56 pm UTC. _Dgw|Talk 16:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Undeletion request for article Anchal Singh

soft deleted at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Anchal Singh. (Nominated by @ManaliJain) There are various references available about the topic now. So, I would request you to kindly restore it. Macrobreed2 (talk) 12:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Macrobreed2, this article is eligible for WP:REFUND, please use it. ~Kvng (talk) 15:45, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Kvng (talk page watcher) I think Macrobreed2 is attempting to do exactly that. I doubt there's a hard and fast rule about using requests for undeletion. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 18:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Kvng: Appealing to the admin who deleted the draft is as valid as REFUND. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v 18:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Macrobreed2,

 Done An editor can appeal to the admin who deleted the page but also, as Kvng advises, WP:REFUND is possible and you might get a quicker response there. Liz 20:57, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Liz, I also appreciate your advise @Kvng. And thanks for adding your valuable comments @I dream of horses, @Jéské Couriano. Macrobreed2 (talk) 02:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Deletions

Please do not delete category:Kimberellomorphs , since it is not empty anymore. Zhenghecaris (talk) 20:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Zhenghecaris,

I know, that's why I removed the speedy deletion tag. It still needs some "parent" categories added to it. Our categories are in a hierarchy so what would be the logical categories that it would be a "child" or? It shouldn't be too difficult as species/genus also are sorted into hierarchies themselves. Liz 21:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Greetings, Talk page stalkers!

Hello, all,

I seem to have quite a few editors who have this User talk page on their Watchlists and you often help me out by supplying answers to queries either before I can get to them or when I don't know the exact answer to the question. But now I'm writing directly to you to encourage your participation in an annual election on the English Misplaced Pages.

This is the last weekend of Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024. Please take a moment to review the prospective candidates' statements, scan over the candidates' answers to questions posed to them, if you want, browse through some of the voter guides created by your fellow editors and, if you have formed any opinions, cast your vote. Your options for each candidates are "Support", "Oppose" or "Abstain"...Abstains are not included in determining the level of support for a candidate. Voting is open until 23:59 UTC, 2 December 2024, this Monday (3 days from now). Depending on where you live, this UTC time could correspond to 4 pm, 7 pm or 10 pm (Monday) or even 3 am, 6 am or 9 am (Tuesday) so check your time zone and clocks.

But here is your annual chance to cast your vote for the future arbitration committee members. Voter eligibility is outlined right here. Typically, I think elections draw between 1,000-2,000 participating editors so it's a fraction of our active editors. Consider your options and if you choose to participate, than please do so before Monday, midnight UTC, Dec. 2nd. Thank you for reading, now return to your regularly scheduled editing routine. Liz 22:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

This would've reminded me to vote, if I ever voted in ACE. On behalf of those who do vote, thanks. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Just curious, I dream of horses, is this election just a distraction from the editing work you prefer to spend your time on or is not voting a "protest vote" because you think the whole thing is political? And if you don't want to answer, that's fine, too. Liz 02:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll answer. It's not terribly deep, though. I just never got in the habit. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I dream of horses, never mind, all my socks vote. That should more than make up for you. Bishonen | tålk 03:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC).

As a tonality indicator, I took that as a joke. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 03:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

👍 SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:35, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Already voted. Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

That's great. I don't care how you voted, I'm just glad to see editors participating in the process. Liz 10:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Good luck to you and all the candidates @Liz! Star Mississippi 16:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

My section on the admin noticeboard

Apologies for wasting space on there. Was that just not necessary to bring up at all? Sandcat555 (talk) 10:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Sandcat555,

It's not a matter of "wasting space", it is just not an urgent matter than needs the attention of the entire admin community. If this had been persistent vandalism, then it would have been suitable for you to report it at WP:AIV, if it was an incidence of edit-warring, go to WP:ANEW, if you believe it was a case of sockpuppetry, file a case at WP:SPI, if it was an ongoing dispute that you cannot seem to resolve, then WP:ANI might have been appropriate if talking to another editor hadn't worked. But WP:AN is for issues affecting the admin corps or for certain other issues like a request from a banned editor to be unbanned from the project. Like many areas of this project, it takes a while to figure out where to go to find an answer to a problem.

This incident, however, was just 2 rather odd edits from a new editor but they weren't disruptive or damaging to the project. Instead of coming to AN, you could have tried talking to the editor or alerting an admin on their User talk page. But it definitely wasn't urgent and it's likely that this editor won't return to edit on Misplaced Pages. We get a lot of new accounts that are created, make one or two edits, and then leave. And, surprisingly, most accounts that are created don't make any edits at all!

You might want to look over Misplaced Pages:Noticeboards to see the variety of places you can go for help. I'm sorry if it seems a bit overwhelming but we have a lot of noticeboards broken down by the nature of the problem that is being discussed. Finally, any time you bring a complaint to a noticeboard about another editor, you have to notify them of the discussion. On the noticeboard, a code should be displayed that you can use or you can just leave a personal note that you write.

If you have any other questions about noticeboards and when you should use them, please bring them to the Teahouse where experienced editors can offer you advice, support and a second opinion. Have a good weekend. Liz 21:19, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz Thanks, that's helpful. Sandcat555 (talk) 05:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Multiple PRODs to an article

Hi Liz. I see you removed the PROD from David Prager. I used to think it was for one-time use, but when I've recently double-checked, I'm not finding such restrictions, only restrictions on reverting and edit warring. Am I missing something? - Hipal (talk) 20:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Hipal,

I hope you are having a nice weekend.

According to WP:PROD, PROD is one-shot only: It must not be used for pages PRODed before or previously discussed at AfD or FfD.. This article was PROD'd (see here, and then de-PROD'd (see here), in May 2007 so the article is not eligible to be re-PROD'd. In fact, no article can be PROD'd more than once unless the tag used is actually a BLPPROD which is for BLPs that have no references, citations or external links. I hope this explains my decision to remove the tag. This only means that, if you wish to see this article deleted, you must nominate it for a discussion at WP:AFD. Liz 21:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! --Hipal (talk) 21:06, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hipal (talk page watcher) Just to add in my opinion, PROD is good for checking if a low-quality, abandoned article is actually abandoned. If it is, it gets refundably deleted. If it isn't, it goes through AfD.

Of course, it's sometimes hard to know when an article has been PRODded if it's happened years before. Ask me how I know. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

This is why I am so eager to convince editors to use Twinkle to tag pages for deletion, because Twinkle will leave a relevant edit summary stating that it was posting a PROD tag. It's easy to see when you are looking at the page history. But we have some senior editors who like to manually tag pages for deletion and they do not always leave a helpful edit summary stating what they did so sometimes you have to check all edits that are of a certain size to see if they were PROD-taggings. Liz 23:27, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

we have some senior editors who like to manually tag pages for deletion and they do not always leave a helpful edit summary stating what they did Sounds like Misplaced Pages. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been meaning to set up a better editing environment for myself that includes Twinkle. (Yes, I still use WikiBlame and I miss reFill and it's predecessors.) I'm fairly good with the edit summaries at least. --Hipal (talk) 19:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Raleigh Memorial Auditorium

Hi! I saw that you are the editor that deleted the Raleigh Memorial Auditorium article. I was wondering if you would be able to undo that, or provide the old body from the previous article so that I can add that in when making a new article under the auditorium's new name "Martin Marietta Center for the Performing Arts"? -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 04:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Willthacheerleader18,

Actually, Raleigh Memorial Auditorium was just a redirect that pointed to an actual article, Martin Marietta Center for the Performing Arts. You should make this request to the admin who deleted that article which was User:Jimfbleak. I think you might have better results if you asked for the article to be restored to Draft or User space so you could work on improving it. Good luck. Liz 04:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, my mistake! Thank you so much! I will try that. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 04:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Liz. Willthacheerleader18, you are better off starting from scratch. Since its creation, the page has been almost entirely lacking in independent verifiable sources or any real facts to show that it meets the notability criteria. It's also promotional in tone (recently enhancing the space to blend state-of-the-art technical amenities with traditional theatre traditions... a unique experience perfect for ballet, opera, concerts, and comedy... this space is also the idea blank slate for video shoots, meetings, and corporate luncheons) and a substantial copyright violation of the theatre's website. In any case, the G12 precludes restoration as a draft. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Jolielover (talk) 08:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Civility

Bit confused by your post over at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mega Society (2nd nomination). I believe that people who use techniques like a compliment sandwich are trying to manipulate which is a clear sign of disrespect. I had hoped you knew me enough to know that I am direct when necessary and kind when possible. And remember: free pitchforks! Polygnotus (talk) 13:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, now that Prometheus Society has been deleted, can we move Prometheus Society (student society) there? Polygnotus (talk) 19:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you can explain WP:REDLINK and MOS:BIRTHDATE to Robin82346? They won't listen to me, and they've been deleting red links with the editsummary Fixed dead link. Many of their edits are subpar, and many of them should be reverted. Polygnotus (talk) 01:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

About the categories of North Indian and South Indian descent.

Greetings, I noticed that you placed a speedy deletion tag on the categories Category:American people of South Indian descent and Category:American people of North Indian descent. I would like to offer some reasons why these categories should be retained, as they highlight important aspects of diversity within the broader Indian-American community: Recognition of Cultural and Regional Diversity: India is an incredibly diverse country with distinct regional identities, languages, cuisines, traditions, and cultural practices. Categorizing individuals of South Indian and North Indian descent helps acknowledge these unique aspects within the diaspora, which otherwise might be overlooked in broader, generalized categories. Better Representation: These categories allow for a more granular understanding of how various communities contribute to American society. For example, South Indian Americans have made significant contributions in fields like technology and classical arts, while North Indian Americans are prominent in areas like politics and Bollywood-inspired media. Facilitating Research and Accessibility: Scholars, journalists, and readers looking to explore specific contributions or experiences of South Indian or North Indian communities in the U.S. will find such categorization invaluable. It ensures that resources and information are easier to locate and study. Reflecting Diaspora Identity: Many Indian Americans identify strongly with their regional heritage (e.g., Tamil, Kannada, Punjabi, or Gujarati). These categories validate and reflect the lived experiences and identities of people within the diaspora. Consistency with Other Ethnic Subcategories: Misplaced Pages frequently recognizes subcategories for other ethnic or national groups, such as Category:American people of Basque descent or Category:American people of Scots-Irish descent. The proposed categories are consistent with this practice of nuanced representation. I believe these categories enrich Misplaced Pages’s diversity and inclusivity by acknowledging the varied and vibrant backgrounds within the Indian-American community. I hope this perspective provides a reason to reconsider the deletion proposal. Looking forward to your response! SavetheSouthofIndia (talk) 16:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

P.S. Please reply on my talk page. SavetheSouthofIndia (talk) 16:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@SavetheSouthofIndia (talk page watcher) I see that you put an identical message on Explicits talk page. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 16:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I copied and pasted it. SavetheSouthofIndia (talk) 17:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SavetheSouthofIndia,

As advised, I responded on your User talk page. Liz 21:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Duplicate !vote at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bukit Mewah National Secondary School?

This looks like a mistake - the !vote was by 1keyhole, not the nom. Owen× ☎ 00:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Owen,

You are absolutely right. I'll revert myself if no one has already done so. Thank you for catching this. Liz 03:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Logging speedy deletion nomination of Ashutosh Niranjan. (Mistakenly posted to User talk:Liz/CSD log)

Regarding Logging speedy deletion nomination of Ashutosh Niranjan. this ia an official page of ias officer. 103.83.70.102 (talk) 13:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC) - moved by Passengerpigeon (talk) 01:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Passengerpigeon,

I have no idea what this message is supposed to mean. Why are reposting a message from May 2024 on my User talk page? What are you asking for? Liz 02:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea either; you can contact the original commenter. I was just moving a message that had been misplaced on the wrong page in case it meant anything. Passengerpigeon (talk) 03:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Deletion of Jayson Sherlock on Misplaced Pages

Hi there Liz! My name is Jayson Sherlock and I'm a musical artist and have been on Misplaced Pages for many years, I have many fans worldwide who use Misplaced Pages to find out information about me. I have no offensive material on my page and would never accept anything of that nature. I hope you will reinstate my page so my fans can continue to learn more about me. Thank you so very much. Blessings, Jayson. 115.64.107.101 (talk) 07:49, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 115.64.107.101/Jayson,

Before I can say yes or no, I need to see why the article was deleted. Please provide me with a link to the deleted page. THank yuo. Liz 07:53, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Regarding that EE fellow over at ANI

Would you be willing to entertain the notion that it's someone related to the recent ArbCom case? I have filed an SPI request yesterday (under a different IP, as my home IP granted by my ISP is dynamic), but it seems that the request was shot down by an admin before it could have been reviewed.

I have been detailing that account for a while now and with their recent harassment by copypasting a CTOP warning (intended for themselves) to their victim (which is reminiscent of their behaviour on the Japanese wiki), I am confident to say that it is the very same person behind it, from the topics involved to the account they're (currently) harassing, as well as the edit timelines between the 2 (1 has been active, while the other has stopped completely). I have also sent an email with updated info regarding this to the CU team, perhaps you should ring them up regarding this.

On a final note, previously I was told off by users with something along the lines of "that misconduct on non-EN wikis aren't indicative of a user's behaviour on EN", I would like to think otherwise, misconduct is misconduct and a leopard never changes its spots. 14.192.215.18 (talk) 11:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, 14.192.215.18,

All I can say right now is that I don't think they are a new editor. Liz 18:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

RD request

Hi, Liz! I was wondering if you could RevDel this diff that I made to my userpage (and the first edit of my userpage) in November of 2020, it unfortunately has my real name in it and I don't want to be self-doxxed on Misplaced Pages, especially since I'd assume people go to "first diffs" of pages just to see how they've changed over time. Thanks! E_F 17:15, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, EF5,

 Done Happy to help. But, wow, you've made a lot of edits to your User page over your time here! Liz 18:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I know, it's a lot. :) E_F 18:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

RD request

Hey there, I saw that you handled one of these for EF5, and I was wondering if you could get everything from this diff back to the beginning of the user page, and for the same reasons.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 19:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Kingsmasher678,

 Done And I took care of 2 edits on your User talk page, too. But there is a message in your talk page archives you're going to want to remove as well. Liz 19:47, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll get that one; is there anyway to RD the name from my talk page history or am I just going to have to live with it?

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 20:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I've edited the PI, if you could RD the previous revision of the archive that would be great!

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done That was a lot of edits but I understand wanting to keep your personal information private. Liz 20:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I've been a bit worried about this for a long time, so I really appreciate this!

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 20:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I found one more, it's the edit summary on my archive page. Sorry for the bother!

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 20:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

And what about the redirect from your previous account? Do you want that deleted as a CSD G7? Liz 21:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The reason I didn't say anything is because of the renaming policy, where it says something about linking to previous names. As long as it's OK to delete that, I would love to.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll double-check then. How about I email you if there is anything further to discuss? Liz 21:14, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Sounds great, thank you so much!

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 21:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Scammers on wikipedia

Hi Liz! I saw you made edits on the Simple Misplaced Pages. I have no idea what site is that, but you said it is your name. This is a famous convicted scammer with the fake agency for bots and fake accounts online.All the articles there are paid and fake and you can see that when you check them. https://simple.wikipedia.org/Michael_Graziano

They made a Simple wikipedia page to keep scamming people online. This is their scam agency, it is called Mindful/Monopolize. https://www.mindfulagency.com/ One of their "owners", a convicted pedophile was jailed last year.https://whoradio.iheart.com/content/2022-09-01-nevada-man-accused-of-child-sex-assault-arrested-in-iowa/

Here is the article about their scam with link to the lawsuits. It is disgusting. Do you know how to nominate that page to be deleted?His contributions are for the same scammers and his team. Someone I know was scammed by them. https://www.thephoblographer.com/2023/06/27/photographer-sues-monopolize-for-50k-in-the-craziest-story-ever/ Moondust534 (talk) 20:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Moondust534,

I am really not well acquained with the Simple English Misplaced Pages and how to nominate articles for deletion. Every Wikimedia project has their own system. But I do know that Vermont is an administrator on the Simple English Misplaced Pages. I'd recommend posting a request on their Simple User talk page] and see if they can look into this matter for you. But admin privileges are not transferable so I am just a basic editor on that project and I don't visit it very often. Good luck! Liz 20:23, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I do see that I edited that article on Simple but I'm not sure what led me to that page. We have an article on this project about Michael Graziano but it's a different person with the same name. Liz 20:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I will ask him. Moondust534 (talk) 20:50, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi

Please see User talk:GalaxyBot#Draft:The Office Australia. – DreamRimmer (talk) 02:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, DreamRimmer,

I have to be careful when discussing this editor as we have had conflicts in the past. It's not an accident that they happened across this draft deletion. I'm sure they will be reading this discussion, too.

I'll just say, thank you for addressing the mistake so quickly. All systems like bots have errors and the important element is to note when they happen and fix them promptly which it looks like you did. Thank you for your efforts to be responsive and for creating GalaxyBot. Liz 02:27, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).

Administrator changes

• Ahecht
• DoubleGrazing
• Dr vulpes
• FOARP
• Peaceray
• Queen of Hearts
• Rsjaffe
• SD0001
• SilverLocust
• Sohom Datta
• ThadeusOfNazereth
• Voorts

• Ajpolino
• Fathoms Below
• Pppery
• Tamzin
• Worm That Turned

• Aervanath
• Christopher Sundita
• Dank
• Dennis Brown
• Dragons flight
• Fastily
• Graham87
• JaGa
• Kbh3rd
• Marine 69-71
• Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington
• Yamamoto Ichiro

Interface administrator changes

• SD0001
• Sohom Datta

Pppery

CheckUser changes

• Spicy
• TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RFC, the policy on restoration of adminship has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats' noticeboard within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
• Following a request for comment, a new speedy deletion criterion, T5, has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.

Technical news

• Technical volunteers can now register for the 2025 Wikimedia Hackathon, which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. Application for travel and accommodation scholarships is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.

Arbitration

• The arbitration case Yasuke (formerly titled Backlash to diversity and inclusion) has been closed.
• An arbitration case titled Palestine-Israel articles 5 has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Need help with editor's behavior

Hey. You left some comments in this discussion in November 2024. That discussion was eventually archived and no actions were taken. However, that same editor wrote this edit summary yesterday, which is once again targeted at me. Actions by administrators must be taken, because this has been going on for far too long. – sbaio 20:58, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, sbaio,

That wasn't a polite edit summary, I'll admit, but why on Earth are you editing a draft that this editor created when you have a history of disputes with them? Stop looking at their contribution history and just keep distance between the two of you. I'm not going to sanction this editor for snapping at you when you came to a draft they created and were working on and chose to edit it, given the past history between you two. Don't monitor each other. Just work on your own projects. Liz 22:05, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

First of all, that draft was largely abandoned about five months. In addition, that draft is a WP:CFORK of multiple pages that have all that information. And I see that editor's contributions, because there are some pages on my watchlist that are sometimes edited by that particular editor. The "snapping" has been going on for more than a year and it all started when I tried to explain about WP:DATERET, which that editor ignored. So yes, I have a very good reason to look at history, because someone is getting away by constantly making personal attacks and breaking guidelines/policies. – sbaio 22:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Shift Technologies (software company)

I PRODded this article on November 26 and then the page creator proceeded to remove the PROD template, which led to the category for the proposed deletion being deleted (by you). What should I do here? Cutlass 23:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Cutlass,

I'm going to need more information here. The category for the day's proposed deletions (like Category:Proposed deletion as of 27 November 2024 for today) is deleted at the end of the UTC day when all tagged articles and files have either been deleted or de-PROD'd. It's a maintenance category and the day has passed. You must mean a different category. Can you provide a link to the category you are concerned about? Liz 23:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Category:Proposed deletion as of 26 November 2024 - basically, the article had a proposed deletion tag with mine and another editor's comments and they proceeded to remove it, and since they removed the template it also removed the category (which caused it to get deleted as empty). Cutlass 23:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Cutlass, once an article has been de-PROD'd, you can't PROD it again. A PROD happens only once. An editor removing the PROD tag doesn't need a good reason to remove the tag or offer any reason at all. You'll need to bring this article to WP:AFD if you are still seeking its deletion. Liz 01:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Can the author of a page remove the PROD tag? Cutlass 01:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Anyone can remove a PROD tag, the article creator, a registered editor, a random IP editor. I think you are thinking of CSD Speedy deletion, for CSDs, the page creator can not remove a CSD tag. And no one can remove an AFD/RFD/CFD/etc. tag until the discussion is closed. I hope this clear things up. Liz 01:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cutlass Personally, I only use PROD to see if a low quality, seemingly abandoned article is actually abandoned, or if it's on someones watchlist. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 04:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cutlass: Prod is for deletions which are relatively uncontroversial–if anyone disagrees with the tag, then by definition the deletion is not uncontroversial. --Finngall 06:52, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Muhabbat Gumshuda Meri

Seeking some direction on this deletion discussion. The main reference being argued for showing notability was discussed here where even one of the keep votes suggested it needs additional consideration, and here where there is clear consensus that it is not reliable. CNMall41 (talk) 07:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

I also did not want to taint the discussion but this user who voted keep is awaiting behavioral review at SPI. Was hoping they would have been blocked before the end of the discussion but SPI appears to be busy. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:47, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CNMall41,

I'm not sure what you are asking me to do here. Reconsider the AFD closure? Even if Sunuraju is judged to be a sock, I don't know if they would be a sockmaster or a sockpuppet and that would affect whether or not their AFD argument was struck. I'm not going to judge evidence on an SPI when a checkuser has been requested and, unfortunately, SPI is usually backlogged. And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some open cases from October that haven't been closed yet! And Sunuraju wasn't identified as a sock in the first two instances of this SPI in November that were closed so it is far from clear whether they would be identified as a sock in the current open investigation.

But even if Sunuraju's AFD argument was struck (and it wasn't even an argument so I didn't give it any weight), then I still think there was enough support for a Keep of this article or, at the least, a No consensus closure and the Keep arguments relied on more than the Youlin Magazine reference. Are you considering taking this to Deletion review? Liz 19:24, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, Liz. I am not asking based on the SOCK. I think I am mentioning it because of the SOCK activity that we see in these pages and don't want one of their keep votes to influence others to vote keep. The SPI was just re-opened which is a separate issue so please disregard me even mentioning it.

I don't feel like wasting time with a deletion review. You made the best decision based on the information presented so not questioning why you closed it. I think that I should have at least left a comment prior to close about the discussion with Youlin not being considered reliable by the film taskforce. This could have possibly led to a no-consensus at the least but not sure. So no, I won't be at DRV as you made the decision based on the information presented. Maybe hoping you could turn it into a no-consensus based on the new information about the source being unreliable. If not, that is fine as well. Cheers! --CNMall41 (talk) 19:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Currently empty category

Hi Liz,

you put a speedy deletion tag on Category:Peruvian companies established in 2011 because it's currently empty. The problem is: I've detected that someone created Cosco Shipping Ports Chancay Perú S.A.. I then created this category according to the model of other already existing categories Peruvian companies established in yyyy, and added the 2011 category to this new article. After this, another fellow wikipedian moved the new article from mainspace to draftspace where it's now awaiting revision: Draft:Cosco Shipping Ports Chancay Perú S.A.. So that emptied my category.

So what should I do? Wait whether the revision will be successful and then create my speedy-deleted category again? Remove the speedy deletion tag because I assume the new article will be moved to mainspace again soon?

--Cyfal (talk) 08:31, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Cyfal,

Empty categories are easy! You can only remove the CSD C1 speedy deletion tag from an empty category if it is no longer empty. We don't keep empty categories because they might be needed in the future. But here's the thing about CSD C1s...if the category is ever needed in the future, it can just be recreated! Either by an editor or you can go to the admin who deleted it or go to WP:REFUND and ask that it be restored. No problem. So, don't worry about a category that you might need when your draft is in main space, the category might not be deleted yet but even if it is, poof! we'll just restore it. Sound good? Liz 08:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good! Thank you! (I also created a copy on my local PC, so I don't even need to bother an admin, though.) --Cyfal (talk) 09:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		More than four hours after my last edit, I still have to smile at the "poof! we'll just restore it". Cyfal (talk) 13:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Question

Hello Liz. I nominated the European Cricket League 2023 for deletion with the suggestion it could be merged with the overall league page. You kindly agreed with this and closed the AFD today. But I checked and the page is still there. I'm still quite new to this process so could you explain how the merging happens and do I need to do anything as the AFD nominator? Thanks for your time reading this. Best wishes.

Forgot to log in. It's still early here! The above is my question. Thanks again. Shrug02 (talk) 11:31, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello again Liz. After lots of reading into page merging, I've made sure the relevant content has been included and set up a redirect. Hopefully I did it correctly. Anyway you can ignore my question now. Sorry to trouble you. All the best, Shrug02 (talk) 15:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Shrug02,

No problem with asking questions although it can take me a while to respond. Who actually takes care of a merge is really up to whomever wants to take on the project or which editors if more than one person wants to be involved. The AFD closer only tags the pages, they don't handle the merge. Unfortunately, some merges can sit for a long time before an interested editor takes on the work. Liz 22:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. Taabii (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Merge

If AFD is not the place to seek a merge, what is a good place to seek a merge for that article? Reader of Information (talk) 22:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Reader of Information,

See Misplaced Pages:Merging#Proposing a merge. The process looks complicated but just follow the steps to set up a discussion on the article talk page and post the notices. Once the discussion is over, an uninvolved editor will close it for you.

If you have other questions about where to find information on this enormous project, I recommend visiting the Teahouse. I know a few things having edited for years but at the Teahouse, you'll find the combined knowledge of all of the editors who visit it to answer questions. It's more than I can help you with with my limited experience. Good luck. Liz 22:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

I had tried and waited over three days and never got a response.

That's why I did the AFD as it has a more public platform.

If I was to be honest, I feel like there should be a MFD but it has become inactive as of late and the project seems to be abandoned and if I could I would re-establish it but idk the proper procedures for it.

I'm new to merge discussions as a whole so I would appreciate some input. Reader of Information (talk) 22:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Reader of Information, what were the articles involved in this proposed merge? Maybe there is a related WikiProject where we can find interested editors. But three days is not a long time on this project, some Merge proposals are open for a month or two before they are closed. Liz 22:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

It was II Corps into the hatnote linked article which can be seen here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/II_Corps_(Grande_Arm%C3%A9e) Reader of Information (talk) 22:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors December 2024 Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors December 2024 Newsletter Hello, and welcome to the December newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since September. If you no longer want this newsletter, you can unsubscribe at any time; see below. If you'd like to be notified of upcoming drives and blitzes, and other GOCE activities, the best method is to add our announcements box to your watchlist. Election news: The Guild's coordinators play an important role in the WikiProject, making sure nearly everything runs smoothly and on time. Editors in good standing (unblocked and without sanctions) are invited to nominate themselves or another editor to be a Guild coordinator (with their permission, of course) until 23:59 on 15 December (UTC). The voting phase begins at 00:01 on 16 December and runs until 23:59 on 31 December. Questions may be asked of candidates at any stage in the process. Elected coordinators will serve a six-month term from 1 January through 30 June. Drive: In our September Backlog Elimination Drive, 67 editors signed up, 39 completed at least one copy edit, and between them they edited 682,696 words comprising 507 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Blitz: The October Copy Editing Blitz saw 16 editors sign-up, 15 of whom completed at least one copy edit. They edited 76,776 words comprising 35 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Drive: In our November Backlog Elimination Drive, 432,320 words in 151 articles were copy edited. Of the 54 users who signed up, 33 copy edited at least one article. Barnstars awarded are posted here. Blitz: The December Blitz will begin at 00:00 on 15 December (UTC) and will end on 21 December at 23:59. Sign up here. Barnstars awarded will be posted here. Progress report: As of 22:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC), GOCE copy editors have completed 333 requests since 1 January, and the backlog of tagged articles stands at 2,401 articles. Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators, Dhtwiki, Miniapolis, Mox Eden and Wracking. To stop receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Message sent by Baffle_gab1978 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Eric Edem Agbana

Hello Liz, I will like to request the reversion of a deleted page, Eric Edem Agbana who has just being elected as a member of Parliament in the Ghanaian general elections. He now qualifies for WP:BLP and WP:NPOL Heatrave (talk) 12:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Heatrave,

It looks like you already got Eric Edem Agbana restored. Liz 21:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Liz for the win at ACE

Looks like you're in. Like really in, top vote-getter at 81.16%. That astounding. I didn't make the cut, but that's fine, you've got a great group coming in with you. Just Step Sideways 00:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Just Step Sideways,

Wow, well, thanks for letting me know. I'm bummed that you didn't get in. I hope you will consider running again next year. I remember meeting you at the Misplaced Pages Conference in 2019 with "Katie" and I was looking forward to getting to work with you. I really admire you, putting yourself through a process you could expect would be adversarial. That shows grit. Liz 00:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that means a lot to me. I was looking forward to it as well, but this obviously isn't really a surprise. I'm sure the team you are coming in with can ferret out whatever it is that has been making the committee so apathetic lately, perhaps just the influx of perspectives and personalities will have the desired effect. Just Step Sideways 01:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Congrats, well-deserved. Andre🚐 00:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congrats! C F A 00:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

You're going to have to read your email more often now :-) RoySmith (talk) 00:49, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

That is an understatement, RoySmith. I think I have to create some new email accounts to handle the load. Liz 01:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I funnel all ArbCom emails into a separate folder. In just under a year it has collected over 7,000 emails. I gatger that's a significant reduction on previous years! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

congrats :) ... sawyer * he/they * talk 01:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Congrats.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Liz - congratulations on your resounding win. It is clearly a sign that the community recognizes the many ways you've contributed to the project, both in your personal qualities and in the work you've done. If I may throw a word of caution out there - as an arb I found people less willing to extend me good faith than they did before. So I would suggest to the extent that you're going to continue your admin work around deletion that you follow the pledge you made at ANI not to close things early, something you've done a few times even since that thread (e.g. Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Flag_of_Pichincha). Fortunately XfDCloser makes it easy to know when you're closing something early. You have some great new colleagues on the committee but if there are anyways I can be of assistance to you please don't hesitate to reach out. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Barkeep49, I think. You are sending a pretty mixed message. The AFD you highlight was closed 15 minutes early which I don't think is egregious. We have some NACs who close AFDs a day early. At this point, I have closed hundreds (thousands?) of AFDs so I wouldn't be surprised if I made a mistake on a few of them. And if you could spare a few hours a day to help out closing AFDs, your help would be welcomed there.

I know that I already have editors here who don't care for me (to put it mildly), I just assumed I'd gain a few more. Liz 01:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you that the 10 AfDs (from a review of the close of the AFD to Dec 2) and 2 PRODs (from the review of a single day) all were 30 minutes or less early which is one reason I hadn't said anything prior to now. But also people like me who don't close early can't possibly pitch in if others close early (and thanks for the note about NACs happening a day wearly; I will try to spend some time watching for that as that is far more troubling). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Congratulations, Liz. I am not surprised but I am pleased. Cullen328 (talk) 02:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congratulations on your election! — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 02:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Felicitations! -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congratulations Liz! - L.E. Rainer 03:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• AMAZING. Congratulations and well deserved. FWIW, 15m early is a non issue but you know I'm one of the guilty early closers. But if I may make one minor suggestion, slightly more archiving? Currently choking my admittedly four year old computer. Star Mississippi 03:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, dear Star Mississippi! Believe it or not, I just archived all of the messages from September 2024 from this page, I thought having 2 months' worth of talk page messages was okay. Maybe I should reduce it to one month.

This election result was a surprise. It almost takes the sting away from my tumultuous RFA nine years ago. I try not to reflect too much on the past but, boy, that was a brutal experience. For any talk page stalker, running for ARBCOM is much less abrasive than having an RFA. So, consider that when November 2025 comes around next year and editors ask you to consider being a candidate. Liz 03:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Can confirm it's much speedier now. Perhaps my cache caught it at the wrong time or something more techy that I don't quite get. I don't think I'll have the on wiki time to ever be an Arb, but your feedback on process is reassuring. Congrats again! Star Mississippi 00:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Let me add to the chorus and say congrats. NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 08:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Adding my congratulations. I am not surprised by the result. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congrats! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congratulations and good luck. CMD (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Congratulations! The Kip 07:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
• Hearty congratulations! _Dgw|Talk 12:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the 2025 Arbitration Committee

Congratulations on your success in the elections and welcome to the 2025 Arbitration Committee. This is the first part of your induction onto the Arbitration Committee.

Please use the EmailUser function to indicate the email address you'd like to use for ArbCom and functionary business.

Before you can be subscribed to any mailing lists or assigned CheckUser or Oversight permissions, you must sign the Wikimedia Foundation's confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information (L37) and the VRT users confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information (L45). Please confirm that your username is listed on the Access to nonpublic personal data policy/Noticeboard. If isn't, and you haven't signed the agreements, please do this promptly and let me know when you have signed them. Instructions for signing can be found here. Again, you must sign both agreements listed in the instructions. If you have signed but your username is not listed on the noticeboard, please let me know.

Over the coming days, you will receive a small number of emails as part of the induction process. Please carefully read them. If they are registration emails, please follow any instructions in them to finalise registration. You can contact me or any other arbitrator directly if you have difficulty with the induction process.

Thank you for volunteering to serve on the committee. We very much look forward to introducing ourselves to you on the mailing list and to working with you this term.

For the Arbitration Committee, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 01:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, KevinL,

Thank you for the welcome. However, first I clearly have to set up some new email accounts for this new role since my personal email account is decidedly low volume. I just found out about the results two hours ago. It also seems like this message has an incorrect link. confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information (L37) is a dead page that links to Wikimedia Foundation Confidentiality Agreement for Nonpublic Information and I don't see a way to actually sign any document here on this page. Thank, in advance, for pointing me to the correct place to take care of these technical details. Liz 02:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hey Liz, please use the "How to sign" link at the bottom, which can also be accessed here: foundation:Legal:Wikimedia Foundation Confidentiality Agreement for Nonpublic Information/How to sign. Please let me know if if there's anything else that'd be helpful. Thanks! KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

L235, this notice makes it sounds like it should be soooo easy but it took several tries to even get to the correct page. The first instruction should be "Log in". And then it took me to a general Phab ticket page. But the deed is done. But it would be great to update this notice with the correct link. Thanks again for the welcome! My email Inbox will never be the same. Liz 04:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

In case it helps I did some quick math and arbs sent only 7920 emails to the main ArbCom list in 2024 (down from 10410 in 2023, 10370 in 2022, and 12098 in 2021) (though data is somewhat incomplete for this year as the year is not yet over). KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 18:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

L235, oh my Lord. I mean, I knew from my years as a clerk that there was a lot of email but I had no idea, numbers-wise, that it was in the thousands of messages. Liz 18:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

This is down. I bet we hit 20k emails in 2016. -- Guerillero 19:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

These numbers are only for the main ArbCom mailing list, and perhaps not all of it. There's also the -b and -c mailing list, the clerks mailing list, the functionaries mailing list, the global checkuser mailing list, the checkuser VRT queue, the oversight VRT queue, the COI/UPE VRT queue, and various direct emails that people will send you simply because you're an arb. I just looked through my own inbox, and I received 21,086 emails in 2021, and 22,433 in 2020. And people wonder why arbs don't edit much. – bradv 19:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad I created a new AC email address. I might have to buy extra storage though. Liz 00:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

User:Toby2023

Liz, not sure you're going to have any time to look into this given your new responsibilities and all, but this user's AfD nomination pattern, communications in response to you, and contribution history tingles my Spidey sense like someone who's lowkey butthurt over the lack of Scott Pilgrim characters, or possibly an LTA account. I'm going to keep an eye out, but you see far more AfD's than I do. Jclemens (talk) 07:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Jclemens,

I already commented on their user talk page as I don't like to see brand new accounts nominating articles for AFD discussions. But I posted that remark in November and I'll see what they have been up to lately. Liz 08:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

You have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee

The Electoral Commission is pleased to announce that you have been appointed for a two-year term to the Arbitration Committee effective January 1, 2025. Congratulations on the appointment.

On behalf of ElectCom: —CYBERPOWER (Merry Christmas) 14:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Eeww! Congrats. Now you are even lamer and with more power! -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn’t call it “lame” @Deepfriedokra; but congratulations @Liz. Hurricane Clyde 🌀 20:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Inside joke. Liz and I are both lame. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

+1 Congratulations, Liz! Maliner (talk) 22:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for all of the congratulations. Yes, and I'm so lame that it has actually swung back around to being hip. You wait long enough and even workholic, rule-followers who post Welcome notices can become fashionable. Liz 22:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the official notice, Cyberpower678 and for all of the work that you and your fellow Electoral Commissioners did to have such a smooth election in 2024 with timely results. It sounds like it was a big change from last year, in a very positive way, thanks to this year's Scrutineers. Liz 22:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Some changes for sure. I think the biggest changes that made coordinating easier was all the automation I implemented a few years back. Automated watchlist notices, automated status headers, automated mass message templates, and so forth. I'd like to think that's made coordinating ACE much easier over the years. :-) —CYBERPOWER (Merry Christmas) 03:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Cyberpower678, our technologically gifted editors have made so many changes, tools and innovations that have helped out the rest of us in visible and less visible ways. I know that the committee isn't "pro-active", looking for problems to resolve, but if there is anything I can ever do to assist editors in receiving cooperation from the development team at WMF, let me (or us) know. Of course, I can't make any promises but I've been hearing about problems for years now and it would be nice if some assistance could be provided to you all. Liz 03:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I also came here to say congratulations, Liz! Your responses to editors in difficulty at the various admin boards have always struck me as some of the calmest, most thoughtful and helpful comments there, and this election is well deserved. StartGrammarTime (talk) 03:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, StartGrammarTime. Unless there are just blatant violations occurring, I believe in deescalating conflict. Often, two editors in a dispute have gotten themselves in a "me vs. you" situation that makes one person a winner and the other a loser. It's much better to get other editors participating in a discussion so that a consensus can be determined so the disagreement becomes less personal. We have lost a lot of talented editors who got themselves into a feud that they just couldn't let go of. It's interesting how often difficulties becomes less about policies and guidelines and more about getting along with other editors who have different opinions from your own. Liz 04:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Liz, count me amongst those who are very heartened to see you take up a position on the committee. Without intended commentary on the other worthy candidates and electees, I have to say that your election to the post is, for this community member, the best news to come out of the election. I am confidently of the opinion that this community and project are about to face some of our most consequential developments, decisions, tests, and times, and knowing that you will be in such a central position to interpret and shape policy and to influence the collective community discussion and voice is a bright spot at the end of a year that has at times been largely defined by worry about both the immediate and the near future. I was confident of your success in the election and I'm even more confident of the benefit that will accrue to us in having elected you. SnowRise 06:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Snow Rise, for your vote of confidence. But while I think the committee may help interpret policy by judging when it has been violated, I think it's debatable that they actually shape policy. I don't think that's seen as a role for the committee by the community although it might happen indirectly. I am a bit concerned about my daily routine as I've seen editors and admins who join the committee become less and less active on the project as editors and I currently have a very busy schedule. But if I have to cut back on those activities for two years, I guess that's just a price that I'll need to pay. Liz 19:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, I largely agree with you that this is how the division of authority should work, and was originally meant to work, but let's be honest: it hasn't been that way for a long time. To take just one example from relatively recently, the last ArbCom decided it was within their authority to take such a monumental decision as to not only ban all non-registered users from editing articles in contentious topics, but indeed to ban them from even supplying perspectives on the talk pages of such articles. Rather than putting the issue to community. That's not just "shaping" policy: that's creating policy whole cloth for the entire project, via fiat.

And apparently the larger community is just willing to let the kind of assumption of authority go unchallenged, because there was not the kind of pushback I would have expected. In that case, acceptance may have been bootstrapped by the populairty of such a move with a once small but growing (though in my opinion, ill-conceived) movement to lock down access to the editorial process more and more, especially with respect to those who choose not to (or cannot) register. But even if that's the case, it's clear that my perspective is somewhat out of step with the broader community, because I would have expected more people to oppose that kind of over-reaching of a dozen-ish users setting policy for the entire project on principle. Even if they liked that particular idea. But there was barely a squeak.

So yeah, ArbComs power is arguably at its zenith right now. I would argue that if the consensus norms that govern this project's core functions are going to survive, we're coming up on a time when we are going to have to set some institutional limitations and clear rules on the scope of ArbComs authority, because through rulings like that, ArbCom has slowly absorbed more and more power into its remit for, frankly, decades now. It honestly bears a striking resemblance to how the Supreme Court of the U.S. established its role in the early decades following the establishment of the nation. Thankfully for democracy in that nation, jurists in that body and outside forces eventually saw the need to pause the growth of the court's powers and to adopt the much lauded (if somewhat mythologized) "checks and balances" era of governance.

But it remains to be seen if ArbCom itself will eventually develop a sitting body of Arbs and a culture willing to self-restrain itself in that way--or in the alternative, when, if ever, the community at large will step in to better define the limits of the committee's authority. Food for thought, anyway! In the meantime, ArbCom really does have massive potential to shape policy, for better or worse, and what we should hope for so long as that is the case, is that such authority should at least be in steady and contemplative hands. That is one of the major reasons I am very happy to see you take a position in the body. SnowRise 06:38, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Ugh. It's hard to imagine a more thankless job, but somebody has to do it I guess. Congratulations! ~Anachronist (talk) 19:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

That's kind of what happened, Anachronist. I find my current round of routine editing tasks really enjoyable but I thought that after 11 years as an editor, I should really help out with some more serious work on the project, to help out with the "less fun" activities and ARBCOM is at the top of that list, along with going through an editor's entire contribution history looking for copyright problems and reviewing unblock requests. So, on to consider some of those "intractable" disputes. Liz 19:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

• Just adding my congratulations to the congratulations pile. Congratulations! SportingFlyer T·C 19:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

If you have any questions about CheckUser/SPI/functionary stuff, you can send me an email anytime. The mailing lists are pretty helpful, too. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

LameNerd

has a nice ring. I think I'll change my user name! -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

To be honest, DFO, anything is better than your former name which was unpronounceable. By the way, anyone who devotes their free time to work on an online encyclopedia for free is a lame nerd so you're in good company. Liz 23:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

1) Thanks. 2) Too true. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Deepfriedokra,

I have the hardest time tracking down templates that I want to use. Right now, I'm looking for the one that advises blocked editors that they have lost talk page access and need to use UTRS. It's not in Category:Misplaced Pages administration templates, can you tell me where to find it? You do so much work on UTRS, I'm hoping you know. I've looked for it multiple times and have never been able to locate it. Thanks. Liz 02:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Template:Uw-blocknotalk Among the block templates. Template:Uw-block -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 07:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

(sigh) (I do wish we'd always lay on a block notice when blocking) -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Deepfriedokra, so I should have looked in Category:User block templates? Template:Uw-blocknotalk says it's for a temporary block but I guess there are parameters I can change to make it indicate an indefinite block. Before seeing your message, I found a copy of the template on a different editor's user talk page and copied it over. Not all of the information is accurate for this block but at least this notice gives a link to UTRS which is what I wanted. Thanks for pointing these out to me. Liz 08:56, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

And, yes, I get frustrated by admins who block without posting a notice on the user talk page explaining why an editor is blocked and how they can appeal the block. It's just so unnecesary if you just use Twinkle to block an editor. Liz 08:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has become too labyrinthine even for experienced users. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Question about editing the source assessment table in Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/15.ai_(2nd_nomination)

Hi Liz, I'd like to ask if it's okay if I edited the source assessment table in my initial post with the updated sources I added to the AfD. My assumption was that everything above the relisting line should be left alone, but I feel like my most recent argument addresses all of the issues others have brought up so far. Thanks for the help! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 00:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, GregariousMadness,

I think it would be okay for you to edit a source assessment table that you created but please note this fact by putting a note like "Updated by GregariousMadness, December 9/10 (depending on where you live)", knowing that this last part can be replaced by your signature, ~~~~. This note that the table has been updated will hopefully cause participants to review it again. This updating it much better than posting yet another table. Thank you for checking in about this. Liz 00:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Wole Olusola

FYI I've undone your deletion of Draft:Wole Olusola, which didn't even remotely qualify for G13. Did you mean to use a different speedy deletion criterion or something? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, * Pppery *,

You're right, Draft:Wole Olusola wasn't eligible for CSD G13 today. I often have pages/tabs open and this draft would have been eligible but I didn't notice that the article had been recently edited. I'll remove my talk page notice on the user page of the draft creator. I've deleted so many of these expiring drafts and after six months of inactivity, it's very unusual to see editing in the hours right before the expired deletion time. But I'll be more careful.

Did this draft pop up on your "mistaken deletions" report? I use to review that to see if any pages I deleted appeared on it but I've lost the page title. I appreciate you catching this one. Liz 05:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. It popped up there. It's WP:Database reports/Possibly out-of-process deletions. You appear a few other times there but all but one of them are false positives. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Email sent

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Mathglot (talk) 11:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry

Someone has poured you tea.

I was up for way too long when I had written what I did and I am sorry. I hope you can also understand given my age. Thank you for your query, I understand now that you were just trying to look out for the best interests of the site. Again, I am really sorry and hope we can turn a new leaf. :)

L.E. Rainer 17:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

2025 Arbitration Committee

The Arbitration Committee welcomes the following new and returning members following their election by the community. Their two-year terms formally begin on 1 January 2025:

• CaptainEek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Daniel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Elli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• KrakatoaKatie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Liz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Theleekycauldron (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Worm That Turned (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The one-year terms of these members also begin on 1 January 2025:

• Primefac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Upon meeting the Wikimedia Foundation's criteria for access to non-public personal data and signing its corresponding confidentiality agreement, all incoming members will be subscribed to all Committee-managed email lists, assigned the CheckUser and Oversight permissions for use in office, and given access to the CheckUser and Oversight queues on the VRT system.

We also thank our outgoing colleagues, whose terms end on 31 December 2024:

• Firefly (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Guerillero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• L235 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Moneytrees (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Outgoing members are eligible to retain the CheckUser and Oversight permissions, to remain active on cases accepted before their term ended, and to remain subscribed to the functionaries' and arbitration clerks' mailing lists following their terms on the Arbitration Committee. To that effect:

• Stewards are requested to remove the permission(s) noted from the following outgoing members, who have not chosen to retain them, after 31 December 2024:

  CheckUser: Firefly, L235

  Oversight: Firefly, Guerillero, L235, Moneytrees

• Outgoing members are eligible to remain active on cases opened before their term ended if they wish. That will be noted on the proposed decision talk page of affected case(s).
• All outgoing members will remain subscribed to the functionaries' mailing list.
• All outgoing members will be unsubscribed from the clerks-l mailing list, with the exception of Firefly, Guerillero, and Moneytrees, who have chosen to remain subscribed.

On behalf of the Committee, Sdrqaz (talk) 02:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard § 2025 Arbitration Committee

Wow, just wow!

Thank you for reading this section (now archived to history). There is one sentiment which I would very much like to remain:

Merry Christmas

God bless you for all you do here. 156.61.250.249 (talk) 11:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

To respond to your edit summary, this comment by Yngvaddottir (03:31, 19 November 2024) is worth repeating:

ArbCom is also en.wiki's primary defence against the WMF, which also does great damage to the projects with its overreach and its misplaced priorities.

Congratulations

Congratulations on your election to the Arbitration Committee. Crafterstar (talk) 16:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Suspicions...A "Category" abuse case?

Hi L., I noted you put up a "Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Portuguese all-female bands" and posted a notice on user Kjell Knudde's Talk page. I am posting this having found you by tracing back from a number of quite odd categories recently added in bulk to the "Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" page, e.g., diff. Many of these categories seem pretty dubious, and many of them were started by users that have been blocked (potentially all just one user?). I am suspicious of the situation for one, for another, a Category like "Comics about anthropomorphic deer and moose" seems a waste of time, and for another, I rather object to bloating down articles with excessive Categories. I don't quite know how to proceed, so I ask for your second opinion. This general situation seems like it might be a problem, or perhaps it is all on the up and up. It smells like the time I looked up Hurricane (cocktail) and noted it stated dryly that the drink had been invented by Ernest Borgnine, that is, something that seems all on the up and up, but is in fact vandalism. Thanks! (I am just a writer...not a Misplaced Pages expert...) Bdushaw (talk) 16:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Bdushaw,

First, any time you refer to a page on the project, please provide an active link to it so it can be easily checked. Otherwise, I have to cut and paste, go to the search bar and I'm still not sure if I end up on the page you are talking about.

Second, I'm not sure what your question to me is. You seems to have some kind of suspicions but I'm not following your comments. If you are concerned about an individual category, then mention that category, what the problem is and a link to it. Liz 01:20, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply; sorry I was not clear. I have a broad suspicion that there is an malicious (?) effort to add Categories and so bloat up articles or for some other nefarious purpose. I noticed this with the recent additions of a large number of Categories by this article diff, and that many of the categories added had been started by users (or perhaps only a single user?) that are now blocked. User Special:Contributions/Kjell_Knudde seems to be vigorously adding Categories to articles, in what seems to be a "sole purpose" manner, and irrespective of what seems me to be the dubious nature of many of the categories. I may be way off base in all this, but I came to you only because I saw you had posted on User_talk:Kjell_Knudde talk page about deleting one such category. As I noted, many of these categories don't seem me to have much sense or merit to them. I know of no way of ascertaining whether the problem is real, or what to do about it, whereas you seem to know what you are doing. I'll let the matter drop here; I don't have an axe to grind here (other than being somewhat annoyed at an overload of Categories on at least one article, viz. The_Adventures_of_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_and_Friends). Best regards, Bdushaw (talk) 01:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Bdushaw,

If you look at Kjell Knudde's user talk page, you'll see a number of messages to them about their misuse of categories. But this editor has been active for 16 years now and has over 100K edits, I don't think that this is anything malicious or "nefarious", I just don't think they fully understand how categories and subcategories work. This is really not that unusual, we have had a number of editors who don't seem to "get" how categories function as an organization tool. As for the notice I left, one of my regular tasks on the project is tagging empty categories so I post messages like that on a daily basis.

Overcategorization is an ongoing problem on this project in general but I can't see how it benefits any one on- or off-Misplaced Pages to add unnecessary categories. If you feel that any categorization they have done is problematic, I'd approach them on their talk page to discuss it or you can remove them from an article or category. Right now, I don't see a need to escalate things to a noticeboard-level discussion. Liz 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for checking! I've regularly run across things that did not look quite right, but on further inspection turned out to be that seemingly-innocent-looking vandalism. It has given me a hint of paranoia... Happy Holidays! Bdushaw (talk) 12:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 December 2024

• News and notes: Arbitrator election concludes

• Arbitration report: Palestine-Israel articles 5

• Disinformation report: Sex, power, and money revisited

• Op-ed: On the backrooms by Tamzin

• In focus: Are Misplaced Pages articles representative of Western or world knowledge?

• In the media: Like the BBC, often useful but not impartial

• Traffic report: Something Wicked for almost everybody

• Opinion: Worm That Turned's reconfirmation RfA debriefing

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

390,612 bytes

• A paltry shadow compared with @EEng:'s. (860,094).
• Wouldn't you like to archive?
• 😜

-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:09, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Deepfriedokra,

Well, I just archived messages from September 2024 about a week ago, I thought that would help with the size. But you're not the first person to mention this recently so I'll archive October messages this weekend. This talk page gets a lot of traffic though and it can take me a while to notice some messages in the middle of the page and respond so I like to keep at least a month's worth of messages up. Liz 06:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Overdue reply

I haven't been very active editing lately. Regarding , I did jump the gun there and I believe I had reverted my edits by the time you replied. Thanks. Home Lander (talk) 21:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Home Lander,

Oh, well, thanks for letting me know. Liz 06:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Early close

Hi Liz, are you willing to do an early delete for this AFD (The Campaign Trail (Web Game))? Every contributor has went for a delete. TheWikiToby (talk) 02:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TheWikiToby,

I understand the request but I don't feel comfortable closing an AFD after it has been open only a few hours unless it qualifies for a Speedy Keep. But if the discussion continues like this, the article will clearly be deleted, if not now than soon. I know that there are other closers who wouldn't hesitate like I'm doing. Do you think it would qualify for a Speedy deletion criteria? Liz 06:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Very understandable. To answer the question, the author themself said that the article probably doesn't meet GNG in the AFD, so it could go under criteria A7. I would also just invoke WP:IAR personally, but hey, I'm not the admin here. TheWikiToby (talk) 06:18, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

A global request

Hello Liz, I address you to this request from today. It is the second request. The former request from Nov 19, 2024 was declined. I have not done anything wrong.
An additional information is here. The essay is exist also in Hebrew. I would suggest that as a member in the AC, you would decline the user from editing in the En WP. Thank you, _Dgw|Talk 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Dorian Gray Wild,

I'm sorry that this editor is so focused on you (for unknown reasons) but our jurisdiction is the English Misplaced Pages and I have no influence on the Hebrew Misplaced Pages. Their request was rightly denied (no local admins can globally block an editor). I hope you let me know if another request happens on Meta. I also have no influence there but I can at least leave a comment on Meta while I do not have the ability to communicate in the Hebrew language on that project.

As for the Arbitration Committee, I don't join the committee until January. It does include some additional privileges and many new responsibilities but I can't arbitrarily block an editor for what they are doing on another project. But if they violate their Interaction ban on the English Misplaced Pages, inform me or open a case on ANI. I hope you can put this editor out of your mind and focus on productive editing. You don't want to let them take up residence in your head. Liz 03:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Dominic3203 and user sandboxes

Dominic3203 has run Citation bot on User:StarryGrandma/My sandbox along with many other user sandboxes. I thought he understood after the October ANI report that he wasn't supposed to run the bot on user pages without asking. Could you have a word with him about this? Thanks. StarryGrandma (talk) 18:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@StarryGrandma I am really sorry about that. I thought the category doesn't involve anyone's sandbox, but the bot have done it anyway… Dominic3203 (talk) 03:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like Dominic3203 has heard you, loud and clear. I do know other editors who run Citation bot but, Dominic3203, if you could give StarryGrandma some space and be considerate about other editors' User space, it would be appreciated. Liz 03:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

Congrats on the new ArbCom badge, Liz :) — Benison (Beni · talk) 19:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Beni. It's appreciated! Liz 03:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

New message from TheWikiToby

Hello, Liz. You have new messages at TheWikiToby's talk page.
Message added 20:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheWikiToby (talk) 20:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings!

Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Misplaced Pages in 2024! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2025! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Dr. Blofeld. I'm not quite in the Christmas spirit yet but the signs are that it is happening pretty soon. Liz 19:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I've been playing along to Christmas songs on piano and guitar and doing my own jazzy arrangements the last few days, I suspect that's why I am! :-) ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Matt Deitsch

Was there a deletion discussion for Matt Deitsch? I know I don't own the article but I would have liked to comment on it as I created it cookie monster 755 02:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CookieMonster755,

Please provide me with a link to the deleted page and then I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. Liz 02:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Matt Deitsch. Expired WP:PROD. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, User:Deepfriedokra. Article restored. Liz 07:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

A request to block an user

Hello, I'm Quangminhvilla, one of the editor on Misplaced Pages. I hear that you are one of the admins on Misplaced Pages, so I want to ask you for help. In the few months before, the article 2023 AFC Asian Cup had an user name RealLifed was vandalism the article so many. Since the 2019 AFC Asian Cup, there was no third place match. But he always edited the third and the fourth ranking on the 2023 article, which lead to many user have to reverted the article many times. He always said that the reason was he used it from the AFC website, although there was no source about it. I have already gave him a warning for this, but he said threatly for me and always said by using CAPSLOCK to tell many user when they said to him politely. I think this user not only used incorrectly sources but he also one of the dangerous user that threaten anyone. So this message today is can you help me block this user please? Because if anyone warning to him about it, he will not change and still violated to them. Thank you for reading this message. Hope you have a good time during this week. Quangminhvilla (talk) 07:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Please read WP:CANVASS. This is not a good look. Hey man im josh gave sage advice when you asked him this exact same question. I suggest you take it. 156.61.250.249 (talk) 12:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Un renard pour vous !

liz

700dandalv (talk) 15:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, 700dandalv. Liz 19:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

you're welcome, Good luck. 700dandalv (talk) 08:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Challenging a deletion review

Hi Liz, I think there's been a mistake with a deletion review regarding 15.ai. Ever since I posted the new sources on the AfD after the discussion was relisted, all of the subsequent votes have been either keep or a striking of a deletion, but the closing admin marked it as a delete instead. How can I challenge this result, and would it be appropriate to do so? Thanks! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 18:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I saw the deletion review page and followed the steps accordingly. I hope I did everything correctly? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 18:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, GregariousMadness,

Well, I'd advise you to either approach User:Cryptic and ask them to unclose the Deletion review or start up a second DRV to review the new closure. But you should first go to User:Barkeep49 with your questions before opening up a new deletion review if that is what you choose to do. You should always initiate a discussion first with an AFD closer before starting up a review of a discussion closure. Sometimes, this can lead to an adjusted closure decision or change in a closure statement but it's also considered polite to inform the closer that you have some questions about how this AFD discussion was closed. Considering how divisive this discussion was and the history of this article, these questions shouldn't be a surprise. After having closed hundreds of AFD discussions, there are some that you just know will end up at DRV and no matter how this one was closed, it was easy to see that any closure with this article would be contested. Liz 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I see you posted your second message while I was typing up my response but I still hope you will follow my advice. Liz 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I see, thank you for your advice. What should I do now? Is there anything that I could improve? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 19:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

In addition, if the close decision is endorsed, would it be okay to recreate the article using the new sources I found? I'm still confused by how a deletion review can be endorsed due to bad behavior even though I dug up new sources that demonstrate notability and significant coverage. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 19:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, GregariousMadness,

First, slow down! Do not create a new version of an article deleted through an AFD if that closure is being reviewed at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. What if that closure is overturned and the article is restored, then you'll have two articles existing on the same subject. So, be patient, and see how the DRV is closed.

Second, if the second AFD closure is endorsed and the article is kept deleted, the proper approach is to create a new draft version in Draft space and submit it to WP:AFC for review. Do not move it back to the main space of the project or it can be tagged for speedy deletion CSD G4 as a recreated article of an article deleted through an AFD decision. The only way I know to overcome an AFD Delete closure is to work on a new article in Draft space and see if an AFC reviewer will approve it. This takes time but there really is no quick way to overcome an AFD Delete closure. So, in your DRV statement, put your best foot/argument forward on why the closer overlooked some important information or didn't take some factor into account and then wait for some senior editors to assess your argument. Do not make your argument personal and DO NOT CANVASS a deletion review, this will just backfire on you. The editors who regularly participate in deletion reviews are fair and knowledgeable about policy. Having some new accounts pop up on an obscure Deletion review page will not help your cause as this isn't a vote count or a numbers game but an assessment by experienced editors on whether or not this closure was appropriate given the arguments that were presented.

The typical results coming out of a Deletion review are "Endorse" the closure, "Overturn" the closure, "Relist" the AFD discussion for another week or "Allow recreation" of the article in Draft space. Deletion reviews typically run one week but can be closed early if there is a Snow closure which means that there is one outcome that all participants are arguing in favor of. I hope this helps you understand the process better. Liz 19:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I'm new to all this and I can't help but feel nervous that I'm doing something wrong. I felt so proud to have done all the research last week only for the discussion to be closed as a delete without warning, so I'm left thinking that I did something wrong, especially since most Wikipedians aren't very patient with my mistakes (unlike you, so thank you very much for your kindness). I'm hoping that I'd be able to at least be able to rewrite it as a draft because I do think that the discussion was closed prematurely. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 19:53, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Pandas Talk Page

Hello Liz. I’m not wiki literate yet so please forgive me for struggling with the wiki protocol.

I am trying to query an edit on the PANDAs (medical condition) page and I’m finding some of the language used by the original poster to be inflammatory and out of date.

I’ve tried to discuss on the talk page and am now seeking a “second eye” for the edit.

The specific edit revolves around the removal of “controversial” to a more nuanced “emerging medical knowledge” and I have posted links to recent publications such as that by the APA.

I can across your page whilst searching for dispute resolution and you seemed the friendliest page out of some that seemed designed to keep out new posters! Please do redirect me if I am not following the correct protocol. I feel very passionately about the topic and want to ensure I am doing all I can for the clarification. BeccaW1986 (talk) 19:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, BeccaW1986,

I do not edit in articles about medical topics. There is a much stricter rule about sourcing requirements which you can read about at Misplaced Pages:MEDRS. It seems like you are already having a constructive discussion on the article talk page where you outline your opinions and arguments. But, especially with articles on medical conditions, Misplaced Pages only uses the highest quality secondary sources so these other sources you bring up might not be acceptable at this stage.

I think the editors you are discussing PANDAs with have a much deeper knowledge about MEDRS than I do and it would be best to heed their advice. Content disputes on Misplaced Pages are resolved through the process of reaching a consensus opinion based on reliable sources so I can not go in and "overrule" them especially when they seem familiar with the literature on this subject and I am not. You can try going to the Dispute Resolution board to get an editor who could facilitate a discussion on this disagreement. But know that medical knowledge can change over time and perhaps Misplaced Pages can adjust its language as more accepted studies are published in the future. But if mainstream scientific literature calls a condition "controversial", then that is the language that we must use as well. Misplaced Pages doesn't aspire to be "cutting edge" but to reflect the mainstream scientific perspective and is especially conservative when it comes with articles on medicine, medical subjects and treatment options. Liz 21:12, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Moriya Almkiass

Hello Liz, I would like to write an article about Mrs. Moriya Almkiass. She is a Deaf Israeli woman, who serves the news of the The Israel Deaf Sports Organization  (Asach). She is professional and signs perfectly. She is fluent, stares at the camers, smiles and is not confused. Mr. Bar Vanunu, who is a professional Hearing interpreter, responded to the video: "Extra Excellent". Michael Kadosh, who is a Deaf sportsman and is shown in the video, is married to Shirly Pinto.

She is married to Mr. Shafir Hafif, a Deaf goalkeeper of the Ashdod Dolphins , who plays vs Hearing teams, as well as in the Deaf Champions League  games. She also participated the Miss & Mister Deaf World contest in South Africa when she was single.

1. President Herzog hosts Israeli delegation to the Deaflympics
2. Asach News Release Decembrer 17, 2024

_Dgw|Talk 00:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Dorian Gray Wild,

Well, you definitely don't need anyone's permission to work on a draft article. Go ahead and give it a shot! Good luck. Liz 01:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much. {{subst:submit}} has been placed. _Dgw|Talk 19:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2025 Backlog drive

January 2025 Backlog Drive | New pages patrol
On 1 January 2025, a one-month backlog drive for new pages patrol will begin in hopes of addressing the growing backlog. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Each article review will earn 1 point, while each redirect review will earn 0.2 points. Streak awards will be given out based on consistently hitting point thresholds for each week of the drive. Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive. Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Followed your advice but the rewritten article was nominated for speedy deletion

Hi Liz, I’m sorry to bother you about this, but I followed your advice above on rewriting the 15.ai article as a draft and sending it through AfC, but someone has tagged it as a speedy delete regardless. Did I do something wrong? What can I do? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 15:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm the one who tagged it. I did not retain the original article so I cannot tell the extent to which what you have is a rewrite, but as I said elsewhere, just click the link to contest the speedy deletion and an admin will compare your version to the deleted one. If they are indeed substantially different, then speedy deletion will be declined. Nothing more to that. If the articles are the same, it will go, if they are different, it will not be speedy deleted.As to what you did wrong: well I would say this was all a bit hasty. I gave you advice on your talk page as to how you might demonstrate notability, and keeping the article in draft for now would have been better. We could all have helped, and also identified continued issues. By submitting it at once for AfC, you have an article back in mainspace even before the deletion review is closed. Even if speedy deletion is declined, this could find itself back at AfD very quickly. It is better off in draft, which is a safe space to incubate the article. But that's up to you. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

When I was writing the draft, it said that AfC could take 8 weeks, so I figured I should submit it now and continue to edit it. I didn’t expect it to be accepted so quickly. I didn’t mean to do it in a haste. I was just following directions. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 16:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

And you can check the edit history to see the progression of the article. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 16:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I have restored this new passed draft, but have not been party previously so I believe this might best be settled by the discussion already at DRV. BusterD (talk) 18:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Andrei Polgar

Greetings, the article was deleted even before I could post my rationale. There are many reliable sources that has in-depth coverage about the person which clearly meets WP:SIGCOV such as or etc.

I strongly believe the article is salvageable so can you please be kind enough to re-open the Afd to have a more clear consensus? Thank you. Herinalian (talk) 19:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Herinalian,

I'm reluctant to reopen this AFD because the discussion had already been relisted twice and you were the only participant who was arguing to Keep this article. Another editor reviewed the sources and found them not to be adequate.

I am willing to restore this article to Draft or your User space if you wanted to continue to work on it. Please know that since this article was deleted through an AFD discussion, you won't be able to move it back to the main space of the project or it will be tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G4. But, when you believe it is "ready", you can submit it to AFC for an editor to review. Let me know if this option is acceptable to you. Liz 23:28, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright, please do and thank you again. Herinalian (talk) 18:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Quick note regarding AN discussion on AfD closures that you may be interested in

There is currently a discussion at WP:AN regarding AfD closure timing. The thread is "Early" closes at AfD. Thank you. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 01:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Red-tailed hawk,

Thanks for letting me know. I haven't had time to check the noticeboards lately. Seems like some of the folks with the strongest opinions are editors/admins who don't close discussions themselves or even participate in deletion discussions. We could use a little more help in AFDLand especially at some hours of the day/night, both for participants and closers. Liz 01:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Celerity BBS page

Liz, you removed a page a couple of weeks ago for Celerity BBS which I have involvement in. This is primarily a pre-WWW software product, but copies of it are extant and more references and details can be provided. Can you please restore it so I can improve the article? Bytre (talk) 17:04, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Bytre,,

You'll need to provide me with a link to the page so I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. Liz 21:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Celerity_BBS (Celerity_BBS) Bytre (talk) 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Bytre (Non-administrator comment) Since this was an expired prod, you can request undeletion at WP:REFUND. NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 02:40, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will try there. Bytre (talk) 19:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Y Restored there. Jay 💬 20:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Could you take a look at this page?

I'm not sure what to do about this page. It doesn't meet CSD but it is an autobiographical article by a user who is circumventing the AfC process. Already a version of this article has been draftified, but the user then just moved their sandbox into mainspace. I tagged it and removed one blatantly promotional statement but I'm not sure what else should be done in this case. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:03, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TornadoLGS,

This article has been tagged for speedy deletion, CSD A7, as an article on a non-notable person. This is often what happens with autobiographical articles that are unfortunately moved into main space. I'm not going to delete it myself, I'd rather let another admin review it but if it is still around at the end of the day, I'll probably take action here. You have to be careful with CSD A7s as this criteria only applies to a limited range of subjects but these are outlined at WP:CSD. Liz 21:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, someone else tagged it for A7 after I commented. I figured since there are sources, A7 doesn't apply. I figure it might not survive AfD but that is also a more laborsome step than is needed. I have left a few messages on their talk page, including a warning for logged-out editing and may take them to ANI if they persist since they are being rather disruptive and possibly showing WP:NOTHERE behavior. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TornadoLGS,

It turns out that they were a sockpuppet of blocked account User:Amardeep Choudhary so I was able to delete their pages right away as CSD G5s. They make it so easy when they don't really change their username. Liz 21:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. Found a sandbox from the old account too that I just tagged with G11. Might keep an eye on the pages they created in case they need to be salted. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Can YT verified links be used for references?

Hi, just reviewing Draft:List of Super Heavy boosters where I find many Youtube links (published by NASASpaceflight YT channel - verified) tagged as references.

Even as per WP:RSPYT where videos from verified accounts can be considered, is it necessary to keep the links, even we try to avoid adding most of it? This is the only issue I'm facing right now and I need your help for clarification. Thanks. ☮️Counter-Strike:Mention 269🕉️ 04:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy Holidays Liz

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, ★Trekker (talk) 07:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

★Trekker (talk) 07:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Steve Arnold (venture capitalist)

Hi Liz, could you restore Steve Arnold (venture capitalist) so it can have a deletion discussion? I think he may be notable. Best, Thriley (talk) 15:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Seasonal greetings :)

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, — Benison (Beni · talk) 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

— Benison (Beni · talk) 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Hello Liz: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, Drm310 🍁 (talk) 06:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Happy holidays!

	Happy holidays and a prosperous 2025!	This is a picture of Elizabeth Reef
	Liz, the amount of work you do for Misplaced Pages is staggering, and you do it with your signature empathy, kindness, without sacrificing any quality. You are always welcome on my talk page with your category questions. I love them because I normally learn something myself :) You didn't get NYB-esque numbers at WP:ACE2024 for nothing, and I really look forward to working with you as a clerk during the term! Best to you and yours in the new year, and happy holidays! HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 06:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• Hello, HouseBlaster,

Those words just touch my heart. I think that is the sweetest thing that has ever been posted on this page. You know the work keeps me busy, fills my day with purpose, but there is a reason why about 50% of my edits are to User talk pages. Most are just formal notices but I also like to check in with other editors, either when I have questions or if I see them struggling. And I know on Misplaced Pages, we prize the project over the people but I don't think I'd still be editing after 11 years if I hadn't encountered so many genuinely good-hearted and well-intentioned people of which I count you. Have a wonderful holiday, however you celebrate the end-of-the-year festivities. Liz 06:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Creatio company page

Hi Liz,

Thank you for your contribution to the Wiki. On October 9, you deleted the Creatio company page (Creatio) , which had been there for many years. This page was handy for everyone who is interested in the Creatio company and its products.

Creatio is a worldwide company with a $1.2B valuation and a presence in 25 countries. The company is a leader in the market and well-known among different analytic agencies (we have a lot of mentions from Gartner, Forrester, Nuclear, etc.). The company's products are a new era of CRM software with no code, and they are transforming the market. Outsystems, Mendix, Appian, and many other companies from this market have pages on Wiki, but in this case, you decided to delete the page.

Can you help me understand how the Creatio page on Wiki can be restored (or how we as a Company, we can improve it from the content standpoint)?

Thanks for your help, and have a good holiday! Nemudryi Yurii (talk) 10:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Draft: Kim Abeles

While we can try the redirect method again, I will point out that that has repeatedly failed multiple times in deterring past students each semester assigned to create this draft. They've removed the redirect, uploaded their work as the new draft and leave, completely unaware of how Misplaced Pages works, and ignoring the real article on Kim Abeles. They don't return after the upload and a minor edit or two right after. @Belbury's template was very effective this fall on this draft as no edits occurred between your June and Dec edits. Early Dec would have likely been another round of this likely assignment reappearing. This and multiple other articles have been seasonal regulars of new drafts of existing subjects from a "rogue" teacher's Misplaced Pages assignments, and while I agree that having the redirect is the normal solution, this is not a normal case, and I'm not optimistic that the teacher assigning these is yet aware of the issue (but I've not followed all draft cases, just this one).

I don't recall if a request for page protection on these pages occurred, or if that would be appropriate in these cases with the ~6month reoccurrences, but I feel like it's been clear that having it as a redirect has not been a deterrent for recreations. Like I said at the top of this message, happy to try it with the redirect again, but I'm not optimistic. It will likely be late April/early May when the Spring finals approach when the likelihood is ripe again. Regardless of opinions, hope you have a happy, safe, and calm holidays. Zinnober9 (talk) 11:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy to say that per Misplaced Pages:Education_noticeboard/Archive 24#Fashion/textiles class is back again (n+1) somebody finally managed to get in touch with the teacher responsible this year, and this seems to have stopped it. I didn't notice any activity on the usual articles, or the usual copyvios being uploaded to Commons, this October. Belbury (talk) 11:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Great! I was not aware of that update and will relax on this being a redirect given the promising details of that conversation and the lack of any repeating occurrences this fall from the pages/files you were aware of. I had seen yesterday's changes as a return to a state that had not worked in the past, and was seeing your template as an effective solution so far, but still in the test phase since it had only been up for one semester. I'm glad this issue appears to be concluded now. Happy holidays to you as well, Zinnober9 (talk) 19:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy Christmas

	Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025
	Hello Liz, warm wishes to you and your family throughout the holiday season. May your heart and home be filled with all of the joys the festive season brings. Here is a toast to a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year!. scope_creep 12:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Hello Liz: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, Abishe (talk) 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Abishe (talk) 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Undelete page Mudirr, I need to work on it to fix its citations

Hello,

I can see that a page i had create almost two years back has been deleted, i want to undelete it and update its content and references, could you please help in this regard?

Thanks. IamBaasit (talk) 15:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IamBaasit,

Please provide a link to the deleted page so I can see why it was deleted. Thank you. Liz 19:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Done It was wp:G13. Draft:Mudirr has been undeleted -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, DFO. It's not always clear with these requests what namespace the article was from. Liz 19:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Too true. It was my pleasure. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Just a reminder, DFO. When you restore a draft/sandbox that has been deleted due to CSD G13, you need to make a minor edit to the page or it becomes eligible again for a G13 speedy deletion. That's something you learn if you help out at WP:REFUND which is actually a more enjoyable admin task than many others I've tried. It's like you have to remove the PROD tag from restored PRODs. But thanks for being a very helpful TPS and I hope you have a great end-of-the-year holiday! Liz 20:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello Liz, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, Davidindia (talk) 21:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

The Signpost: 24 December 2024

• News and notes: Responsibilities and liabilities as a "Very Large Online Platform"

• Op-ed: Beeblebrox on Wikipediocracy, the Committee, and everything

• Opinion: Graham87 on being the first-ever administrator recall subject

• In the media: Delhi High Court considers Caravan and Ken for evaluating the ANI vs. WMF case

• From the archives: Where to draw the line in reporting?

• Recent research: "Misplaced Pages editors are quite prosocial", but those motivated by "social image" may put quantity over quality

• Humour: Backlash over Santa Claus' Misplaced Pages article intensifies

• Gallery: A feast of holidays and carols

• Traffic report: Was a long and dark December

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)