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Revision as of 07:48, 3 July 2006 edit24.18.60.132 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit Latest revision as of 17:53, 24 December 2024 edit undoSchazjmd (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users67,788 edits →Request for Review of Neutrality and Repeated Actions: replyTag: CD 
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==Obvious sock threatening to take legal action==
{{atop|1=VPN socking blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}}
{{atop|result=IP 2409:40D6:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 range block has been blocked for 6 months. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)}}
] has been socking to edit a wide range of caste articles, especially those related to ]s . This range belongs to ] and has been socking using proxies and VPNs too. Many of which have been blocked. Now they are threatening to take legal action against me "{{tq|but how far we will remain silence their various optimistic reason which divert my mind to take an legal action against this two User}}" . - ] (]) 11:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


:Just as ignorant as he is known longtime abnormal activation and especially on those of ] article see his latest revision on ] you will get to urge why he have atrocity to disaggregating ] but pm serious node i dont mention him not a once but ypu can also consolidate this ] who dont know him either please have a eyes on him for a while ] (]) 12:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
{| class="messagebox" style="background: AntiqueWhite;"
:But wait a second as per ] i dont take his name either not even so dont even try to show your true culler midway cracker and admin can you please not i am currently ranged blocked as my network is Jio telecom which was largely user by various comers] (])
|-
::Please tell me there's a language issue at play here, and that the IP didn't mention ] and use a racist slur in the same sentence there... —''']''' (]) 12:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
|This talk page is '''automatically archived''' by Werdnabot. Any sections older than '''3''' days are automatically archived to ''']'''. Sections without timestamps are not archived
:::I think it's both. ] (]) 12:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
|-
:::Well, we linguists don't like anecdotal evidence, but I'll provide some: I (non-native speaker of English, with a linguistics PhD) had to look up all the potential candidates for a slur in that post, and when I did find one it's not one I'd ever heard. However, "crackers" is an insult in Hindi, so I'd say it is most likely a PA, just not the one an American English speaker might understand it as. --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 13:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
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::::At least in the South, an American would recognize ] as a pejorative. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 13:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Sure, but the IP user who used the word said they are in India, and their post contains various typical non-native speaker errors. ("culler" instead of "colour", for instance) --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 16:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::<small>Funny thing is you go far ''enough'' south it wraps back around again: ] - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</small>
* Observation: the IP just on the talk page of the ] article. It's peripheral, and the IP is pretty clearly involved. Is this a bad-faith edit by the IP, or should we just take their suggestion and extended-confirmed protect the page?... —''']''' (]) 12:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Is there a Dudi ]? Though I will note there is a lot of overlap between the "Indian Subcontinent" and "South Asian social strata" topic areas. —] ] <sup><small>] ]</small></sup> 21:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}
*Noting that this person (Truthfindervert?) has taken to using VPNs. I’ve blocked a couple today. --] (]) 22:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Sussexman and legal threats. == == Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by ] ==


The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of ] and ]. Issues began when this editor . They did it and and .
On June 8th, ] and ] had the following exchange:
: *'''Comment''' Utter rubbish. GLF is not protected by the rehabilitation of offenders act and besides, the content of his Misplaced Pages article included a blatent falsehood in that it suggested he had been cleared of all charges on appeal. Seeing as the matter was widely reported in the national newspapers and has thus been in the public domain for some time I fail to see the harm in mentioning it as it is the truth.
- ] + ].


Instead of starting a discussion on the talk page of the article, the user came to ] to let me know of their opinion of my contributions. When I on the talk page of the relevant article, the user and according to their POV. When I let them know that this was highly inappropriate according to ], both and , they ] stating {{tq|ever since the stupid Misplaced Pages Dec. 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, to able to edit or view Misplaced Pages at all from my home computer, I have to use an indirect method which involves a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool. I couldn't even really see your signature that way, and so didn't know to try to avoid changing it|q=y}}, which I had never heard of. In any case, they kept reverting the content supported by the reliable source, they also kept attempting to apply their POV to the discussion heading and and . I that I had and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, and they went ahead and .
:* '''Comment''': You're wrong Mr.Chilvers, as you will soon discover. ] 07:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


:The other user in this case is ]? This looks like a content dispute over whether the article is on the English version of a German-Arabic dictionary or the dictionary itself. ] (]) 15:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Today, Ed Chilvers received a letter from Gregory Lauder-Frost's lawyers threatening him with legal action. Sussexman's "as you will soon discover" would be a reference to this and should be taken as a legal threat. If Sussexman is not Gregory Lauder-Frost then he is intimate enough with him to be able to pass on a legal threat. He should be banned from wikipedia until the matter is resolved and until GLF either concludes or agrees to withdraw any threat of legal action. ] 18:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
::Yes the is indeed about ]. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating ] repeatedly even after I that I had and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and . ] (]) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
:::The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. ] (]) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
::::It's a conduct issue. ] (]) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "{{tqi|Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless of how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible. It can also sometimes be appropriate to merge entire sections under one heading (often preserving the later one as a subheading) if their discussions are redundant.}}" To be blunt, if you don't want editors changing the headings of sections you start, don't use such terrible headings. I definitely recommend you stay away from ANI since changing headings is quite common here. ] (]) 06:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. ] (]) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::&lrm;إيان: I suggest you stop messing around with the section heading since it's a distraction which could easily lead to you being blocked. But if AnonMoos changes your signature again, report it and only that without silliness about section headings, mentioning that they've been warned about it before if needed. ] (]) 06:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)


I wrote a long and detailed explanation on his user talk page as to why the date-only header is basically useless in that context, but he's still for some peculiar reason fanatically determined to keep changing it back. Frankly, I've basically run out of good-faith reasons that make any sense -- except of course, his apparently unshakable belief that he has certain talk-page "rights", which according to Misplaced Pages guidelines he does '''not''' in fact have (outside of his own personal user talk page)... ] (]) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
* Thats what you'd like us to believe because you are and have always been a major player against GLF, his article, and anyone remotely associate with him. Anyone breaking our laws ''will'' "soon find out" and that is very standard parlance. You cannot link Sussexman with this letter. That it may have arrived at the same time as these discussions were continuing is merely co-incidental, Sherlock. Do you honestly think that banning one, two, three, or more people unless they contact someone they havn't seen for years, possibly a decade or more, and tell him to withdraw a perfectly justificable private and personal legal action will work? Justice does not operate that way. ] 21:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


:{{replyto|AnonMoos}} I don't see a problem with changing the heading but why on earth did you change their signature multiple times ? That is indeed a clear violation of ] since the signature was perfectly valid per ]. In fact your change was far worse since it changed a perfectly valid signature which would take other editors to the contributor's talk page and user page into an invalid one which lead no where. If you're using some sort of plugin which does that, it's your responsibility to manage it better so it doesn't do that ever again especially if you're going to edit talk pages where it might be common. If you're doing that intentionally, I suggest you cut it out or expect to be indeffed. ] (]) 06:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:How would they have gotten his mailing address? ] 18:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
::], this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::: For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet . This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. ). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later . Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. ] ] 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Misplaced Pages securely. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Should be impossible as it's required to even access the site in the first place according to ]]<sup>] </sup> 16:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::<strike>Looking at his talk page it's been going back to at least 2011]<sup>] </sup> 16:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)</strike>
:Guys, I do not deliberately set out to modify signatures, and when it happens, I am not usually aware of doing so. As I've already explained before in several places, since the December 2019 encryption protocol upgrade (NOT 2011!), the only way I can edit (or view) Misplaced Pages at all from home is by an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. To change this, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection, which would permanently disconnect my older computer, which I still use almost every day.
:Meanwhile, this thread has been set up so I can't add a comment to it from home without affecting Unicode characters, so I was unable to reply here for 36 hours or so. If I'm silent in the future, it will be for the same reason. ] (]) 01:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::Misplaced Pages uses Unicode characters (] encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should '''not edit'''. ] (]) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Misplaced Pages '''at all''' unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Misplaced Pages developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Misplaced Pages's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Misplaced Pages from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... ] (]) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::...] was created in ''1994'', and became an official specification in '''2000''', not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Misplaced Pages with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web ''at all'', and the security hole that lets you access Misplaced Pages without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is ''not'' working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - ] <sub>]</sub> 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::You unfortunately don't know what you're talking about. New ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL METHODS have been introduced ''within'' HTTPS from time to time. I was using HTTPS perfectly happily until December 2019, when the developers arbitrarily ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. ] (]) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::And even leaving that aside, as Johnuniq mentions - if you can't edit without corrupting Unicode characters, and by your own admission you ''don't know when it happens'', you shouldn't be editing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::This is probably a reference to when Misplaced Pages started requiring TLS 1.2 (because earlier versions were deprecated). Anyone who was/is still on Windows XP at that point couldn't connect any more. ] (]) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about when the update happening, I'm talking about how you have known about this issue, and have been getting complainants about it since <strike>2011</strike>and are still not taking any steps to do anything about it. What kind of internet connection would not support your PC? What on earth are you even using? Dial-Up? Because that still is supported by even Windows 10. ]<sup>] </sup> 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
<strike>:::Also, how did you see me saying "this has happened since 2011" as me saying that the update happened in 2011? Can you clarify. ]<sup>] </sup> 03:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC) </strike>
::::The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... ] (]) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::: Apologies. I was extremely tired when I wrote both above. I have striken the date parts. Rest of my comments still stand. ]<sup>] </sup> 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
===None of this matters===
I don't care what tool this guy uses or what his excuse is. If he can't edit without screwing up people's sigs, then he must not edit. {{U|AnonMoos}} shouls consider himself on notice now that if one of his edits messes stuff up one more time, he'll be blocked until he can give assurance that he's come into the 21st century. ]] 18:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:That's nice -- and also totally inaccurate. I ''was'' in the 21st century, and using 2012 tools, up until December 2019, when the developers pitchforked me backwards by arbitrarily imposing HTTPS ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS which my home computer hardware is not able to run. Notice that I had no problem complying with character-set handling -- the problem is with arbitrary ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. ] (]) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::The century imagery is irrelevant. You have been warned. ]] 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::That was ''six years ago'', which is IMO about 3-4 years too long to keep using it as an excuse. Technology changes over time, so whatever this non-standard thing you think you need to do to edit here, it may be time to make a choice. ] (]) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Misplaced Pages developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... ] (]) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::And just to say for the third time: you're out of chances. "Occassionally" is too often. Once more is too often. And if and when that happens, your attitude of entitlement displayed here will pretty much ensure an indefinite block. ]] 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::If you have DSL or even DialUp. That still works with modern machines. ]<sup>] </sup> 01:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Heck, ''I'' am on DSL (and have been since, if I recall right, 2008). I have no idea what sort of ancient Internet connection AnonMoos is claiming to be using, but it's clearly one that was already obsolete before this change he's still up in arms about six years later was made. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*The response by AnonMoos to feedback about this problem is bizarre. I don't really care what the excuse or the history behind it. If you are unwilling to edit Misplaced Pages using tools that work in 2024 then you should stop editing. The behavior is completely unnecessary and it seems like you don't understand the disruption. ] (]) 14:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


* AnonMoos hasn't really explained in any detail what their technical limitations are. They don't have to, but we can't really give advice otherwise. If as others have suggested their computer can't negotiate TLS 1.2, I'm surprised that they're able to use any websites at all from that computer. Requiring TLS 1.2 is not controversial; Misplaced Pages wasn't doing anything unusual in dropping TLS 1.0/1.1 around that time. ] ] 15:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
By googling "Ed Chilvers" or looking his name up in a British database. It seems from Ed Chilvers' web page that he has been the target of legal threats from Michael Keith Smith, a friend of Lauder-Frost's, in the past so it's possible Lauder-Frost already had Chilvers' contact info. ] 18:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
:Got any proof, like a scan of the letter? -]<sup>]</sup> 19:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


== Disruptive editing by ] ==
:::Ed Chilvers mentions it here - he sent me excerpts of the letter after I emailed him about it.] 19:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


::This sounds pretty serious. I'd recommend blocking until this can be looked into at the very least. --] 19:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


The ] is engaging in disrupte editing. Neither does this IP provide sources and is POV pushing. And this IP has been warned multiple times for this on his/her talk page.
:::I've been in a content dispute with Sussexman over ] so I'm not the person to implement a block. ] 19:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 20:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::::He has now been blocked indefinitely. ]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 19:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


:@]: It looks like you both are ] on ].<sup class="plainlinks"></sup> That's not particularly helpful, so you should try to have a discussion on the ] as to whether you should include the ] name for the article in the lead/infobox. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times">]&thinsp;]<sup>]</sup></span> 20:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I support the block. Sussexman has been consistently disruptive over any attempt to include content not flattering to Lauder-Frost. William Pietri put in some tremendous work digging up newspaper reports and showed that Lauder-Frosts's conviction for theft was the single most widely reported fact about him; Sussexman and a couple of anonymous editors were determined to remove this or at least relegate it to euphemistic references. ] 19:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
::MJL why and how did you pick out that one article over the many this IP has made recent changes to? The IP has been making disputed edits for months and has been reverted by a number of editors, not just Moroike. ] (]) 01:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
* Glad you said "digging up" the dirt. Bit of agive away as to the agenda here, really. ] 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
:::@]: I am not suggesting that the IP editor isn't being disruptive, but my point is that {{u|Moroike}} isn't making the situation better (using the example of that one article). You can see this by looking at <span class="plainlinks"></span> where {{gender:Moroike|he has|she has|they have}} mostly just reverted this editor without using a summary. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times">]&thinsp;]<sup>]</sup></span> 18:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::And this post, which he intended for another user, is fairly close to a legal threat.
::The IP's edits were removed a total of 13 times on the page regarding the capital city of ], ]. You can't let him continue engaging in further edit wars with other users besides Moroike, can you? ] (]) 17:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
* That's just tripe and you know it. He is just stating a fact. ] 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Since this IP user won't stop and is stonewalling, either he/should be temporarily blocked, or all the pages he is POV pushing without sources, should be semi-protected, so that only registered users can edit them. ] (]) 21:37, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
] 20:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I also strongly believe that ] ''is'' Gregory Lauder-Frost, given the similar tone found in the excepts of the letter Ed Chilvers received. ] (]:]) 21:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC) :After he/she was blocked for 24 hours, this IP created an account as ] in order to evade the block and has resumed his/her POV pushing. ] (]) 16:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
* Strong beliefs seem to be only legitimate on your side of the fence. Pity its wrong. ] 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Support, as the person who blocked ], probably leading Sussexman to veil his threats. Be on the look out for meatpuppets. --]<sup>]</sup> 23:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


== User engaged in edit warring to remove disputed content prior to consensus ==
Sussexman is not Lauder-Frost. Preposterous. Sussexman has defended the vitriolic attacks made upon someone he knew years ago and liked and felt a great injustice was being done to. He was quite right to tell people crossing legal boundaries that they were doing this and quite right to tell people that by doing so they would soon find out the consequences. That '''is not''' a legal threat and banning everyone who points out simple facts is not the way forward for Misplaced Pages which should not be above the law. ] 07:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|There's nothing actionable in this content dispute, except perhaps trouting the original poster for failing to assume good faith and hounding friendly admins when they try to help. Longtime user ] (4.5 yrs, over 5K edits) has made several assertions based on their clear misunderstanding of social norms. In this discussion they've failed to notify the subject (they actually failed to use the subject's name in the OP), they've failed to bring any diffs, they failed to sign their post, and over and over they seem to have failed to assume good faith of their fellow editors. A number of editors including several admins have attempted to talk Sxbbetyy down. Nobody in this discussion seems to agree with Sxbbetyy on the merits, yet Sxbbetyy keeps circling back to their own personal interpretation of policy. The discussion at ], where Sxbbetyy refuses to listen to the admin they asked, gives another example of the problem. Sxbbetyy is reminded that creating a post on ANI puts all their own behaviors up for examination. ] (]) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}


Title is pretty self explanatory. Rather than engage in the consensus building process to determine if the disputed content discussed ] is problematic, ] editor has instead immediately reverted the disputed content. They have been informed of the relevant policies prohibiting this behavior and how it should normally be handled (tagging the content as disputed while the discussion is ongoing) but have elected to instead engage in edit warring to keep the disputed content removed prior to any consensus on the matter. Also important to note that they wish to have the content removed entirely, but have stated that they no longer intend to participate in the consensus building discussion. So this appears to be a ] tactic to accomplish their goal of removing the content immediately without a consensus. Seeking admin help to halt this behavior and restore the content with the correct tagging.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Xsign -->
:For values of vitriolic which include stating in terms of studied neutrality the fact that he was convicted of a substantial theft from the health authority where he worked. As far as I can the most of the vitriol has been directed against those who attempted to fix the inaccuracy of the article, by supporters of Lauder-Frost. ] 08:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
:It would help if you named the editor and signed your name to figure out what you are talking about; a noticeboard only works if you give us notice about the subject and what is happening. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 23:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::The editor appears to be {{u|PerfectSoundWhatever}}, based on the under the word "this" as well as . — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 23:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::My apology, this is my very first time making such a post. The other pages o have spoken on seemed to have signed themselves automatically. Will remember this going forward. And yes, that was the user, posted this using my phone so I didn't want to mis-spell their name, just linked instead. ] (]) 17:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{non-admin comment}} IMO the best practice is that in the event of a content dispute, the article should be reverted to the status quo of how the article's content appeared before the dispute started, until such a time that consensus is established to re-add it (see: ]). It seems like the beginning of the content that is in dispute was added on 18 August 2024, the dispute began a few weeks later on 23 September 2024 and has been ongoing ever since.{{pb}}In this case, since the article existed in a relatively steady state for several months (or even years?) previous to the disputed material being added, I think it'd be wise to leave the disputed content out of the article until the discussion comes to a close. ] (]) 00:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::I have been seeing this opinion from a few editors and even one admin on how to interpret this article. However, the first few sentences in that section do outright state to avoid reverting the disputed content prior to a consensus. And prior to opening this report, I asked several admins on the topic and got a response that reverting the disputed content immediately is incorrect per WP:STATUSQUO as it bypasses the consensus building process. I was advised that the content should instead be tagged as disputed rather than be outright removed. The offending user was made aware of the relevant policies but has nonetheless engaging in edit warring to keep it reverted, hence this report. ] (]) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::The status quo of an article constitutes implicit consensus (]). The person trying to include disputed content in an article despite it not being status quo is the one that could be construed as attempting to bypass the consensus building process, not the person trying to maintain status quo until discussion takes place. ] (]) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Correct, and at no point was the definition of what constitutes the status quo ever in contention. In fact, if you review the edit history of the article you can see that the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content, and then continued to revert it as others tried to restore it (both before and after the consensus discussion began). ] (]) 23:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{tq|1=the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content}}<br>Not really, I personally wouldn't define "been there a few weeks" as status quo.{{pb}}I think maybe the other replies to this thread provide pretty good reasoning to take a step back and say "hey maybe I'm the one in the wrong here" instead of talking in circles ] (]) 00:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Personally I think the number of contributions since the edit where it has gone unchanged is a more useful metric, especially on low traffic pages such as this one. Regardless, per the policy you cite, there seems to be no official Misplaced Pages stance on what exact criteria are needed for a contribution to be considered the current status quo, beyond it having been unchallenged in subsequent contributions (which is the case here).
::::::As for the rest of your comment, there seems to be a high amount of band wagoning and "]" going on in the rest of this. Or people trying to use this report as an extension of the dispute discussion on the article's talk page. Hopefully more actual admins to chime in on the topic as I don't actually want to waste my time talking in circles.
::::::On that note thanks for actually taking the time and baseline minimal effort to engage in a discussion where you actually support your point and don't just devolve into repeating the same talking points over and over. It's a nice change of pace. ] (]) 02:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:I am the editor being discussed here. I'll provide a summary of events since the initial statement by Sxbbetyy is misleading.
:Myself and the editor had a content dispute at ] (]) and following circular discussion, I stopped engaging since I felt I had laid out my points. Per ], I maintained the state of the article to before the dispute. I requested for a ], which was answered by {{ping|BerryForPerpetuity}}, who agreed the statement should be removed, albeit for a different reason than mine. I took this 2-1 as rough consensus. I also posted the dispute on two WikiProjects, and have received no response so far. Sxbbetyy reached out to three admins about the matter, {{ping|Sergecross73|Oshwah|Pbsouthwood}}. The ] can be summarized as Sergecross believing that I haven't engaged in misconduct, and that I have presented a "plausible, good-faith interpretation of ]". Sxbbetyy then accused Sergecross73 of not acting in good faith. Oshwah did not respond to the post on ], but {{ping|BusterD}} did, essentially agreeing that the sourcing does not back up the claim in the content dispute. Sxbbetyy received help on ] about responding to a content dispute. And now we're here.
:Throughout these interactions, Sxbbetyy has demonstrated a failure to assume good faith, refuses to accept ], and ]s talk pages, refusing to let the other editor have the last word. Frankly, this is a massive waste of editor time: it should have been a brief talk page discussion then an RfC. Apologies for all the pings. — ] (]; ]) 00:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::This summarization in itself leaves out critical context, (such as berry's concern being alleviated and them no longer expressing a desire to remove the content), the specifics of why that conversation with Serge ended the way it did despite my repeated attempts to engage with them in good faith, and the entire discussion with pbsouthwood (who quite definitively explained that the behavior PSW was engaged in was not correct). So I urge all involved to go read those topics to get the correct context through your own eyes and then discuss any concerns from what you see here. That being the case, it seems pretty clear cut imo. ] (]) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Just to be clear, in no way did I express that I didn't want the content to be removed. I did not receive a notification for your reply, and I wouldn't have engaged either way. —&nbsp;] ] 17:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


: Yes, I would leave that material out of the article. Whilst it may not exactly be synthesis ''per se'', it is certainly editorialising ("the removal of that amount of marine debris is of negligible consequence...") ''unless'' there is an actual source that says this by making a link between between the two statistics (the amount of waste removed by Team Seas and the rate at which waste is entering the ecosystem). And even then, I would say that such an edit would need to say something like "However, ARandomNewspaper pointed out that ...". ] 00:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* Here you go raving about the pre-1992 business as though it were last week and without the full knowledge of the matter. It was '''illegal''' to post details of this. Telling people this should be taken in good faith. Instead you ban people for it. ] 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
::That is actually no longer the content that is being disputed. If you look at the that got reverted on the article you can see the current version. I had made edits to it precisely because of valid WP:NPOV concerns brought to my attention by PSW. However, their dispute with the content remains with the claim that is is synthesis rather than any other concern. Which they have been thus far unable to obtain a consensus on. ] (]) 17:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


*I have some pretty serious ] concerns about the topic starter here. They came to me for help (no idea how/why me, I have no connection to this dispute) and I repeatedly told them I didn't see any misconduct, and then they started attacking ''me'' when I refused to agree with them. And now this. This is a very simple content dispute, with a very simple ] outcome. I've told them this. It's a disappointing time sink on a rather trivial content dispute. ] ] 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
I give my absolute support to Sussexman. I too posted information on how this cabal of smearers were breaking UK law. Any normal person would be pleased for the advice. But this lot knew what they were doing and were absolutely determined to smear GLF all over the world. Sussexman appears to be the third person they have blocked for "legal threats", yet none of them appear to actually be the person concerned and so were not in a position to threaten anyone! Is it Misplaced Pages policy to block out everyone whom you get sick of arguing with? ] 16:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
*:At no point was he "attacked". I defended myself after he became hostile with me (as anyone can read in our convo, I stated multiple times that I would leave and did not want to be a burden if they didn't want to engage with this, but he made no such objections and continued). Eventually he just became outright hostile and refused to explain their points any further, devolving the conversation into them repeating themselves over and over, its all there to read on his talk page. As for why I contacted him, I wanted to ensure I chose impartially so I just randomly looked at the currently active admins at the time and he was the first one I found. ] (]) 18:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
*::The discussion is , if anyone wants to look. The "attack" I'm referring to you is your accusation that I responded to you in bad faith. I was not involved in the dispute, have no stance on it, and had no pre-conceived notions about either of you - what in the world would my motivations be for "bad faith responses"? It doesn't make any sense. You simply didn't get the response you wanted, and proceeded to badger me on it. Did I get vaguely irritated when I volunteered my time to review and comment on a dispute I had no stance or interest in, only to get all sorts of ] responses on it? Yeah, sure, but who wouldn't? ] ] 18:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


*I'm here from my input at the 3rd opinion request. This is nothing more than a trivial content dispute, I see no reason for this to be at ANI. I somewhat agree with the claim of ], it becomes more susceptible to incorrect information, and from my analysis it seemed like the claim in the disputed content was completely wrong. Two different sources, from two different time periods. My $0.02: The claim of stonewalling is ridiculous, there was ample good-faith discussion based on existing policy and guidelines. This editor does not ], it appears that he claims that editors disagreeing are acting in bad faith. From him to administrator Sergecross73: {{tq|"I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."}} It seems that he roots his argument based on the editor who removed it rather than the content itself. Very unfortunate waste of time. —&nbsp;] ] 15:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:If you are acting as a proxy for someone else's legal threats, I consider it substantially identical to making them yourself. Misplaced Pages can't prove the relationship between the Misplaced Pages username ] and the real-world individual Gregory Lauder-Frost, but I believe it does not really matter. Conveying threats from another non-Misplaced Pages party when one is not merely a messenger but an associate and clearly involved in an on-Misplaced Pages effort to suppress the same information differs little in actual effect from explicitly making them yourself.
*:Exactly. It's not "stonewalling" that's happening here. PerfectSoundWhatever has discussed at-length at the talk page. They're simply not willing to ''talk circles indefinitely''. And we don't require that of editors. I've urged Sxbbetyy to, rather that spin their wheels arguing with the same person endlessly in a stalemate, to try to get other participants to take part. But they've refused, and instead decided to move their arguing to ANI instead. As I noted to them in one of my last comments to them, if they spent half as much effort in consensus-building as they did complaining and arguing, they could have built a consensus by now... ] ] 17:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Reading any of what I wrote in this dispute shows clearly that is not the case. Also, the quoted sentence is completely taken out of context.
*:Here is what was said in the mesaage before that they left out, "Not really the logical conclusion one draws from reading any of what I wrote here, where I asked multiple times for you to explain your reasoning in your replies (instead your response was to repeat yourself without offering further explanation), but if that is what you want to take away from this that's fine by me. I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."
*:The message as a whole was replying to was a passive aggressive insult that didn't progress that conversation, hence the response as it was clearly not an example of engagement in good faith.] (]) 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


:Also, it looks like the participants in the dispute on the Team Seas article are acting as if this report is an extension of that dispute discussion.
:I note also that GLF and/or friends and associates were quite happy to keep a lie on the page (that GLF was acquitted of theft on appeal) but are willing to sue on extremely flimsy grounds to hide the truth. ] (]:]) 19:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
:This is a report of edit warring to revert disputed content prior to a consensus being reached (there was no consensus prior to the reversion and there still is no consensus, as admitted by PSW themselves in that very dispute and In their latest revert message, no idea why now in this report they are trying to claim that there is suddenly consensus for removal).
:This is not a report on the dispute itself, just to make that very clear since those involved are responding as if it is. ] (]) 18:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::You've still got this backward. You need to show a consensus to keep your content in the article, as everyone else has been telling you. ] is directly on point, and I'll quote it here: {{Tq|The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.}} ] (]) 18:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you. I have tried to inform them of this many times and many ways. I do not know why they cannot wrap their head around the concept. Conceptually, it would be very problematic if we were required to retain every disputed content until consensus ruled it out. It wouldn't be workable. ] ] 19:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Nobody is arguing WP:ONUS here...not in the dispute and not here in this report. The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.
:::I was directly advised by admin Pbsouthwood that the removal of disputed content BEFORE any consensus has been reached is not allowed (save for specific situations, none of which apply to the disputed content) as this bypasses the consensus building process. ] is the talk page where I was advised this. This is echoed with the wording in WP:STONEWALLING and ]. Here is the direct quote from the latter, "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages, {{under discussion inline}} is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." ] (]) 19:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{tq|The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.}} <--- No. This is your problem. What you are saying here is incorrect. Policies say the opposite of this. You are not going to get support at ANI. In fact, the longer you keep going with this ] insistence that community practice is actually the opposite of what policies plainly say it is, the more likely it is you're going to find yourself blocked for disruption. Pbsouthwood didn't tell you this either (what he wrote doesn't match what you've been doing), and your initial question did not properly represent the situation at hand. But we can invite him here to see if he actually supports what you're doing here: {{ping|Pbsouthwood}}, what say you? ] (]) 20:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::This entire comment serves absolutely zero purpose whatsoever. You're parroting what others have already said with no supporting evidence. Along with throwing in an oddly included threat that is completely nonsensical and wholly unwarranted.
:::::And while I could point out the myriad of ways your claim about what Pbsouthwood said was inaccurate, that would pretty much involve reposting his reply, which is a waste since anyone can already go to his talk page and read it themselves.
:::::So at this point, if you need that admin to come here and tell you what they already said themselves, more power to you. Would save us all a ton of time to get an authoritative answer on this, especially with another admin holding the opposite view point, in spite of the specific policy wording. ] (]) 23:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::], there does not need to be an established consensus for the removal of content. ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not the one insisting otherwise...this report only exists because an ]. And as I've posted in my previous replies, the wording in the policies clearly support that. Makes me question how many have actually bothered to really read these policies... ] (]) 02:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::The other admin told you ''nothing'' about the removal of ], which is always appropriate. ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::# This report is not an extension of the dispute discussion for that article, if you want to involve yourself in that discussion, do so there, do not hijack this report.
:::::::::# The disputed content is plainly not WP:SYNTH as I explain on the talk page in great length, with nobody thus far having provided valid examples as to how it is.
:::::::::# If you are going to make the claim that any WP:SYNTH concerns warrant immediate reversion without consensus, please feel free to share the quote in the relevant policy that says this. I have not found any such wording and instead found that what is present matches up with what PBsouthwood informed me.
:::::::::] (]) 17:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::] ] ] 02:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::At this point I say that my advice was given without a specific context, and without prejudice. I maintain that it is more collegial and polite to discuss a removal of unsourced but ''plausible'' content ''before'' removing it, as it can often avoid disputes of this kind, but it is not forbidden to arbitrarily delete content that an editor ''plausibly considers inappropriate provided the relevant reason is given''. It is always the responsibility of the person advocating inclusion to provide a reference when challenged, regardless of the process of challenge.
:::::Some forms of synthesis are acceptable. If a conclusion is logically inevitable based on undisputed factual premises, or is a simple mathematical calculation, we routinely accept claims that may not be specifically stated in a source, but we may require the logic to be explained, as it may not be obvious to the reader.
:::::At the risk of being ], I also refer readers to <s>]</s> <u>(looks like that essay has been expunged, try ])</u>. &middot; &middot; &middot; ] ]: 06:59, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I think many of us used to the mess editors adding unsourced content can create would strongly oppose leaving in unsourced content just because it's plausible. The standard should instead be at a minimum that you believe the claim made is most likely correct and sourceable not simply that it's plausible. Although ultimately such discussions are a little silly anyway. If editors would just add sources rather than leaving it for someone else because they're claiming it's unlikely to be challenged or whatever, there would be a need for others to decide whether to query or remove unsourced content. ] (]) 09:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I was suggesting tagging with citation needed while you wait a reasonable time for a response, but as we know some of us do not have the patience and just revert. It in not unheard of to know something, but not have a source handy at the time. What is obvious to one may be totally obscure to others. This is acceptable within policy and guidelines. You could start a RfC to have the guidelines changed, but I suspect it would not get through as being a bit bitey. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; ] ]: 12:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Yes, what you say is true, that's absolutely an acceptable approach. But that's not really the problem at hand here. The bigger issue is that Sxbbetyy appears to be believe that the alternative approach - reverting per STATUSQUO or NOCONSENSUS - is somehow misconduct, and that's simply not true. They're not arguing about if your approach is valid, they're arguing that its ''compulsory'', and they're attempting to report a user for not following your possible approach, which is completely meritless. ] ] 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Please do not put words in my mouth. The only reason this report exists is because Peter Southwood advised that this was how I should proceed if the editor participating in this no-consensus reverting continued to do so and was unreceptive to further discussion. (Both are true by admission of PSW themselves). ] (]) 18:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, I've seen , but you presented the situation to them entirely in hypotheticals that lacks crucial context. You frame PSW as unwilling to engage in discussion but omit the fact that You accuse PSW of edit warring to keep their information in the article, but omit the fact that . I would think the near-unanimous rejection of this ANI report would indicate that this was not, in fact, a good thing to report. Best case scenario, this is archived with no action, but I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a ]. ] ] 18:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::I don't know why you are attempting to present the entire discussion on that talk page as some sort of proof that PSW was willing to engage in further discussion to halt the behavior this report is about. At no point whatsoever did PSW ever indicate anything like that; if they did this report wouldn't exist as the discussions on your talk page or Peter Southwood's page would have never needed to happen. Not to mention if you take the time to actually read the discussion, you see that most of it is on the specifics of the validity of the WP:SYNTH claim made by PSW, eventually culminating in PSW actually asserting that they will not stop change their position on this and then outright refusing to engage any further.
:::::::::::And now you accuse me of edit warring by citing the entire recent edit history of the page...this isn't fooling anyone who actually bothers to read any of the revert messages and examine the timeline of when they occurred (talk about omitting "crucial context").
:::::::::::Beyond just slandering my character, I don't really see what these kind of spurious claims accomplish. It wastes everyone's time, makes yourself look biased and hostile, and adds nothing to the conversation. Keep things civil please, I really shouldn't have to tell you of all people that basic expectation. ] (]) 02:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::Wait...are you seriously trying to suggest that, even though you were the only one who reverted him every single time, he was edit warring and you weren't? ] ] 02:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::If you are going to continue to twist words and make false claims immediately after being asked to keep things civil, maybe it would be best for all involved if you just moved on from this conversation. Sad that even has to be stated at this point, it should be a given. ] (]) 17:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Yet another IDHT response where you try to baselessly chastize me rather than address anything anyone is saying to you. ] ] 18:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::What a choice to post this exact type reply to my last message... not to mention the sheer absurdity of it. To claim that I've never addressed anyone's points in my replies is so easily and visibly wrong (literally this entire topic is full of my detailed replies to people's concerns, including this very reply) that it's almost insulting to the rest of the people participating in this or to anyone who even chooses to read that message. It's as if you think nobody can see the rest of this discussion (or even the comments directly above it). ] (]) 11:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for taking the time to respond and my apology for any inconvenience it may have caused. Ive tried to keep it as civil as possible, but there seems to be a very hostile air in this discussion by those with the dissenting opinion. As for how this situation is to be resolved, would it be appropriate to restore the currently disputed content with the appropriate tags (as it is sourced and was the statusquo on the page at the time of reversion)? Or is there something further that must be done here? I'm generally unfamiliar with how ANIs actually function. ] (]) 17:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:Have you considered starting an ]? The fact is that you made a ] addition to the article; someone else objected to it, which means you now ought to seek consensus ''for your addition''. As numerous people have told you, none of the relevant policies and guidelines (], ], ], etc) would allow you to make a recent addition the "default" the way you want, but more generally - the problem is that you're trying to dig through policy for something that will make your preferred version the default, allowing you to have it in the article without having to demonstrate consensus for it even in the face of challenges. Even if the policies and guidelines I listed ''were'' on your side this would still be a bad way to approach it. You have a conflict, your goal should be to resolve it by making consensus as clear as possible - figuring out what the crux of the dispute is and then, if you can't reach a compromise, holding an RFC to see where consensus lies. Also, I have to point out that just by a quick nose count of people who have weighed in on talk, I'm seeing a dispute that is now three-to-one against you. That ''is'' a consensus - not a massive one, maybe an RFC will pull in a bunch of people that say something else, but it doesn't make sense for you to keep demanding a consensus to remove something you added when there actually ''is'' such a consensus on talk. You've disagreed with their arguments but they're not obliged to ] you; ultimately if you think your arguments are so strong and theirs are so weak, the only real option for you at this point is to start an RFC and hope that you can demonstrate that there. --] (]) 04:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::As mentioned earlier in the discussion, this report is not an extension of the dispute on that article, nor is that what this report is about. Also, a RFC was already started for the topic about a week or so ago by PSW, but that occurred after he reverted the status quo, disputed content with discussion (repeatedly). As for the rest of your comment, Peter Southwood, an admin, has addressed what is the actual expectation. ] (]) 18:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::What? I never started an RfC. — ] (]; ]) 19:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I just checked and on 12/9/24 at ] you said the following, "Thanks – just wanted to mention I requested comments from ] and ] about 2 weeks ago."
::::Did that not actually happen? ] (]) 02:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::] is a specific process. Asking questions on a couple of Wikiprojects is not an RFC. ] (]) 02:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::That's fundamentally not what an RFC is. This is getting ridiculous... ] ] 03:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::It's almost like this is the very first time I've ever been involved in this kind of issue on Misplaced Pages before...seriously these kind of replies come off as rude and don't actually say anything meaningful or helpful. Ever since our conversation on your talk page you have made next to no real effort to engage in good faith and I find that highly disappointing to be coming from an admin. And my apology if I offended you at all at some point or if you have just "lost your patience" with me, but I don't see how that gives you the green flag to suddenly disregard ]. I certainly haven't, in spite of being on the receiving end of this. ] (]) 17:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I haven't said anything uncivil, I just keep calling you out when you say something incorrect. ] ] 18:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::], is a powerful force, I find it difficult to resist myself. ] (]) 18:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


===Request for closure===
* All rubbish, I'm afraid. The only person on "flimsy" ground on these issues seems to be you and the little gang of demonisers. ] 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Despite its large size, the consensus here is quite clear. There's no misconduct here, just standard following of procedures of ] and ], which is perfectly acceptable. Not a single person has suggested taking any action towards PerfectSoundWhatver. Outside of a a potential IDHT BOOMERANG, there's nothing left to be done here. Can someone close this? ] ] 14:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
** I'm sorry to have to inform you that I bear Gregory Lauder-Frost no personal ill will whatsoever. I don't know him, have never encountered him, and did not even know of his existence prior to your first postings on this page about it. I am, however, interested in keeping an honest historical record, concerned about an attempt to censor relevant truth, and opposed to those who seek to chill discussion and publication of facts by using dubious legal threats. A brief, half-sentence mention of Gregory Lauder-Frost's criminal conviction in 1992 - which could not be considered any kind of "youthful indiscretion" or to be prior to his public life - is not unfair to him. ] (]:]) 15:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
:I second that. If there has been any edit-warring by any party that should be dealt with in the normal way. {{u|PerfectSoundWhatever}} has certainly done nothing wrong, and the OP will get blocked if they don't start listening to people pretty quickly. ] (]) 14:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::Exactly. And even that's probably unlikely, as most of the "edit warring" was singular reverts with days or weeks in between. It's far from a 3RR situation at least. ] ] 15:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{non-admin comment}} I don't think this conversation is going anywhere fast, other than seemingly coming to the conclusion that @] has done nothing wrong, which seems to be the opposite of what this ANI post was about. There's no edit warring here, and even if there was, it wouldn't be dealt with at this venue. Shut it down! ] (]) 16:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:In what way whatsoever is this editor's decision to revert the disputed content during the discussion "standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO"? The literal first words that appear at that link are in bold and say, "'''Avoid reverting during discussion'''", followed by a detailed explanation of the actual proper procedure. And to make it very clear what it says, here is the literal first paragraph verbatim: "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the '']'' '''during a dispute discussion'''. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the ] are appropriate. For other pages, <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code> is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." ] (]) 02:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::In what way is ''that'' your read of the consensus in the discussion above? ] ] 02:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::In what world do you logically come to that conclusion from a message that consist of almost entirely the word for word quote of the procedures described in WP:STATUSQUO, that directly counters the claim you just made? Are you saying it is "against consensus" simply because it presents a viewpoint you don't like and don't want to address? I don't see another reason why you would again twist my words, to the point of lunacy. And this is, once again, despite the fact that all of what has been said is literally within view.
:::Also, regarding the consensus. Out of everyone that has actually joined the discussion and all the messages sent (~90% of which are either from myself or you Serge), there have been only three people who have actually said anything in support of your interpretation of this. The rest either did not discuss the topic, did not express an opinion, or were Peter Southwood who supported the interpretation of WP:STATUSQUO as stated on its page. Seems like you're just trying to rush a end to the conversation to get the conclusion you want. ] (]) 15:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm saying there has been no consensus for anything you're arguing here. Not a single person has supported action against PSW. ] ] 15:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::The status quo ante bellum that shouldn't be reverted from is the version ''without the new content''. ] (]) 15:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Mgtow definition ==
Just to update people on this, there've been further significant developments today. ] has reduced the entire article to a stub based on an apparent legal complaint (accessible through OTRS ). ] is already involved, though I'm not sure what the current state of play is. Further ongoing discussion is at ].-- ] 18:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Editor was pointed to the talk page and then stopped editing. It looks like this was a case of ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}}
:Actually, it's not accessible through OTRS - it's been placed in a restricted queue, as is common with privacy complaints. ] (]:]) 18:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
There are blatant lies in the wiki definition of "mgtow".
::Thanks for the correction. :-) -- ] 19:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The goal is accuracy, not "man bashing". ] (]) 14:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:@], you should discuss this at ]. This noticeboard is for conduct issues, not content issues. ]&nbsp;] 14:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:Nothing wrong with the definition of MGTOW. Maximum Gross Takeoff Weight is an internationally accepted and used term used by every airplane and airline in the world. ] ] 16:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::The cintent is incorrect. Mvto is NOT "misogynistic". There is no "hate" towards women, only avoidance. ] (]) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:@], you were directed to the talkpage, which includes an FAQ on the term you keep trying to remove, along with extensive discussion. You should start there before just removing sourced content that you don't like. We'll leave aside the absence of required notifications to Black Kite and myself who have warned you for your conduct. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 17:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Where do I find the talk page? ] (]) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], I linked it for you in my comment above. ]&nbsp;] 20:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)


* Camarogue100's removal of material unfavorable to the subject with an edit summary of indicates to me that they are here to play games, not ]. Any more disruption should result in an immediate block IMO. —] (]) 20:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Since I must drudge up old conversation; Until there is conclusive proof that this was a reference to the legal threat/action, could we unblock? The content dispute is something to be handled by ]. --] ] 22:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Creating the need to make 400,000 unnecessary edits ==
:IMO, no chance. We don't operate in a realm of absolute 'conclusive proof' here - but Sussexman is either Gregory Lauder-Frost or closely related to him and passing on threats from him. Either is blockable. ] (]:]) 21:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


Can we please dp something about editors who make unnecessary changes to widely-used modules, and then need to change 400,000 talk pages to get the same result we had before the change? Thanks to change from last week, which removed the parameter "living" from the bannershell, we now have more than 400,000 pages in ]. After the "cleanup" by ] (and perhaps others), we will have the exact same result as we had last week, no new functionality, no new categories, no improvement at all, but a lot of flooded watchlists.
::] is clear that a block must be maintained until the legal dispute is resolved. It's worth pointing out also that there is essentially ''no'' content dispute - the facts are uncontested; the dispute is over whether certain of the facts (i.e. GLT's conviction) can be included in the article, under English and Scottish law. If the dispute is resolved satisfactorily then maybe we can think about unblocking Sussexman. -- ] 22:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


I tried to get him to stop at ], to no avail. This isn't the first time, as you can see from that discussion. ] (]) 14:57, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
* You have deliberately tried to rubbish someone all over the WWW. naturally you will receive legal threats. People have to get on with their lives, not commit suicide because of your smears. ] 17:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC).
:If you want to discuss {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, you should do so at ].
:As for the size of the category, I have no plans to empty it, and was only going to update a few hundred more categories and templates. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">] (] ⋅])</span>&nbsp; 15:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::You made nearly 2000 of such edits in the last few hours, and when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries. I have no way to know how many more you planned now or in future runs. Starting a discussion at the module would hardly stop you. ] (]) 15:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::"{{tq|when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries}}": incorrect. Since you wrongly thought I was making cosmetic edits, i.e. "{{tq|no change in output or categories}}", the category was to inform you that they are not cosmetic.
:::Regarding a BRFA for the bulk of the category, that's looking more likely since the category appears to be neglected. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">] (] ⋅])</span>&nbsp; 15:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Unnecessary removing a synonym and then making thousands of edits to remove the hidden cat created by that unnecessary change is not really any better than making cosmetic edits, the end result is that nothing has changed for the affected pages at all. ] (]) 15:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Not unnecessary. The Lua code is very complex and removing the need the support various settings makes the code both easier to read and maintain. As always, editors that don't want to see these edits can hide these by hiding the tag "talk banner shell conversion". ] (]) 12:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::It doesn´t look as if the specific code to have these synonyms was very complicated though, the argument that in some cases two synonyms were used on one page with conflicting values was more convincing. And the edits I complained about did ''not'' have that tag, so no, even if people knew about hiding that tag, it wouldn't have helped here at all. ] (]) 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:This was discussed in detail on ]. Ideally these edits would be done by an approved bot so they do not appear on people's watchlists. The main benefit is to merge the {{para|blp}} and {{para|living}} parameters. When both are in use, we find they often get conflicting values because one gets updated and the other does not. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 17:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Isn't it more logical to first have a bot cleanup the unwanted parameter, then remove it from the template, and only then start populating the cat with the somehow remaining or since added instances? In any case, this is a typical bot task and shouldn't be done with massive AWB runs. ] (]) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, probably. But we have this mechanism already set up and I assumed {{ul|Cewbot}} would deal with these as part of its normal activities. Happy to look at other options - maybe discuss on template talk? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 18:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I don't know what this is about, but if the OP is correct, it is totally absurd to edit 400,000 talk pages for a tweak. Discussing at a template talk page monitored by those focused on the template would simply hide the issue. ] (]) 03:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Edits like these should ''always'' be bots, so they can be filtered from watchlists. There are numerous other editors who have recently engaged in the mass additional of categories to articles which I had to ask them to stop as my watchlist was flooded. ]] 13:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


* Is it just me or are talk pages like ] just perpetual ] issues where a very small number of editors (frequently 5 or less) make major changes that affect thousands of articles, all without involving the broader community through, at minimum, places like ]? ]]<sup>]</sup> 04:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
I support Sussexman, who appears not to be the first but the third User banned for these "legal threats". If ten people had come on and pointed out that you were all breaking the law with your reckless smears would you ban everyone? The question is, do you people think you can do anything and no-one can tell you you're wrong? I think you've got a bloody cheek. What's even worse is ]'s current efforts to delete numerous UK biographies because he doesn't like Monday Club Tories or that Sussexman had some hand in writing them. What a bunch. ] 21:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
*{{ping|Fram|Tom.Reding|Kanashimi|Primefac}} I got AWB working again. If cewbot would take time for making the changes, and if this needs attention soon, then should I file a request for that particular bot task? —usernamekiran ] 06:20, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:The robot is in operation... ] (]) 09:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::yay! —usernamekiran ] 16:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


:Meanwhile, the category has grown to over 800,000 pages. Perhaps next time an RfC to determine whether creating such a large cleanup task is warranted, would be better? ] (]) 16:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I support Sussexman. There is a small team of anti-rightists at work here. I believe this blocking to be wrong. Tempers may fray sometimes but you cannot accuse everyone of ''legal threats'' because they state the obvious to other users who are clearly breaking the law. It appears that no less than three users have now been blocked for pointing out that Gregory Lauder-Frost was being defamed on Misplaced Pages. Had ten or twenty users argued like this would they all be blocked too? Are this gang above reproach? ] 11:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


== ] ==
That is not the issue here. Just because supporters of GLF say that UK law has been broken here does not mean to say that it is so. I refer people to the article on ] which makes mention of his serving time in a Young Offenders Institution for cheque theft. If what the anonymous users are saying is true then this would also be illegal under UK law.And even if GLF does have a case then it is a civil as opposed to criminal matter. --] 18:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


* Supporters of GLF? Does that include the UK government who pass the legislation, and the legal profession? ] 18:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


] is making wholesale reverts of my edits in contravention to guidelines. ] (]) 19:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
*Again I challenge you to cite precedent when a public figure has successfully taken action after his criminal past has been revealed. I have done quite a bit of research on this issue and am adament that no offence has been commited.--] 09:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:You're removing demographic categories and templates by blanking them out; irreligion still deals with religion no matter your argument. That's definitely not compliant with ] and clearly vandalism. There's no action to take here except that you need to stop removing these categories and templates. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 19:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::And you are now '''required''' to cite how your edits meet ]; spamming it in edit summaries is not discussion. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 19:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::While doing routine vandal patrol, I came across what seemed to be a hasty and massive removal of content, being done in a very directed and personal manner.
::::After looking at the persistent removal, and communicating, I restored the well-drawn categories.
::::Hopefully, this is easily resolved.
:::] (]) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::43*, do not continue to revert these category removals without discussing them first. - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::THere is nothing to discuss. The guidelines are clear. What needs to be done is editors need to be familiar with the cat guidelines. We don't discuss whether the sky is blue do we? ] (]) 02:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::THey are not well drawn, it was not hasty, it was not massive, and it was not "personal". It was directed because they all had the same issue. ] (]) 02:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Editors should not blindly revert. They should be '''required''' to understand the guideleines. ] (]) 02:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


I gave up editing because there were too many problems that the wiki communtity is not sorting out. One of them is treating anon editors as second class wikicitizens.
:Hasn't been mentioned here, but Sussexman and ] also drove a good editor called Humansdorpie off Misplaced Pages completely, by a threat that included "Is this a threat? Yes, it certainly is." (See ] and ]) ] | ] 23:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Another problem is "this is how it is so we are going to leave it like this for years and years" and this is at the expense of the quality of WP.
I must take issue with the ludicrous claims made via the last post by JackyR. The simple facts are that Humansdorpie spent a considerable amount of time goading and teasing Sussexman with a load of garbage. Eventually it clearly reached the stage where he had had enough and responded in kind. I can see from all those involved in this series of witch-hunts that it is perfectly all right for "the gang" to use snide and cynical remarks, to make absurd claims, and to delete articles that required a great deal of time and effort on the part of others. But it is entirely inappropriate to respond under this concerted pressure. One is then accused of being horrid. It must be hard being perfect. I'm not and doubtless Sussexman isn't either. ] 18:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


I can't remember the specific category guideline for the edits I did but is the undoing editors need to look it up. Categorisation is something that a lot of editor do not understand. Go and put a notice on WikkiProoject Categorisation and you will fing that there is support for my edits.
*Not so. Humandorpie and myself was slandered as a 'red,' and a 'force of evil' on various extreme right wing forums all over the web. It was even suggested that the Misplaced Pages entries on our alleged 'heroes' Marx and Lenin should be vandalised in retaliation over the GLF article. --] 09:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


WP could be sooo much better. ] (]) 02:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:Anyone doubting my "ludicrous claims" can simply follow the links and read for themselves. ] | ] 11:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


:I'm sorry, but "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone" is an indication you should be trying to do better instead of telling us we should do the same. If you're not willing to actually explain why guidelines vindicate your changes, then being right sometimes isn't enough if you want to make things better. Communication is the process, not something ancillary to it. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 02:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
== Brian G. Crawford again ==
::GO and read the guidelines. It does not need discussion. ] (]) 02:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Discussion is required when other editors ask you questions in good faith in order to resolve present disputes and prevent future ones. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::Bear in mind this is WP and not social media. ] (]) 02:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone". ] (]) 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::No. You brought this here. The ] is on ''you'' to explain how the guidelines justify your edits, not to say "go look it up". Also {{tqq|How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone"}} - because that's exactly what you said. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::It's not unreasonable in many cases to link to a very specific passage of a guideline and expect an editor to understand its meaning as regards a pertinent dispute, but you can't just fail to clearly articulate your argument while also insisting it's vindicated somewhere within the full text of a guideline. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 02:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:Content dispute. Bold edits were reverted; next step is discussion, probably at ]. If there is dispute over interpretation of the guideline you can consider leaving a pointer at ]. If there are any categories that shouldn't be used at all that can be discussed at ]. ] (]) 03:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::The content dispute could have been discussed on any of the talk pages. Yet it was brought here first. ] (]) 06:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::When a content dispute involves several pages it is often <small>though not always</small> best to centralize discussion. Misunderstanding ANIs purpose and bringing content disputes here is a common and understandable error; best just to point people at appropriate ] when that happens. ] (]) 06:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


Not overly impressed by 43's comments above. But do wish to note that their ] of ] from at least one BLP appears to have been correct. The subsequent reversion of that removal is misfortune. ] <sup>]</sup> 08:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
This threat of physical violence does not impress me. According to the article about the artery he's referring to, his threat would be lethal. I'd say another block is in order? ] <small>]</small> 04:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:Agree with block. The comment in question is threatening and unwarranted under any context -- ] <small>]</small> 04:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::Yes. ] | ] 04:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC).
:::Cartoid sinus/fingernail conflation is never good. As to the broader question, having followed the recent BGC discussions here only cursorily, I wonder whether anyone attempted to ascertain the reasons for his recent devolution? I don't mean in any way to suggest that his behavior has been appropriate, but I always knew him to be a sincere, if sometimes abrasive, editor, one who surely favored logical debate over (largely incoherent) personal attack, and who would not, in any event, write in the fashion in which he now seems to write. Even for Misplaced Pages, where valuable contributors sometimes become disruptive with celerity, this change seems odd. ] 05:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::::So how long? I can't say I'm familiar with this user's history or the type of threat. ] <small>]</small> 05:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


== Unblock request of Rereiw82wi2j ==
::::: This person should be blocked until Jimmy Wales says otherwise, this is physical threat which could be potentially lethal if acted upon. ] 05:39, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Blocked, blocked, they're all blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)}}
The user {{u|Rereiw82wi2j}} was blocked for blanking talk page discussions. They were removing discussions they participated in with an now-vanished account, for the purpose of removing their username from the talk page(which isn't removed via a vanishing). I believe that per ] their vanishing needs to be reversed, am I correct? Do they need to be asked to resume using that account?(if they can) ] (]) 20:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:It seems to need reverting because with their previous account, they only edited one article/talk page and when asked what articles they wanted to edit with their new account, they just mention this same article. That violates the entire principle of a clean start account. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Could we revoke TPA per ? ~ ] (]) 14:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::: I have revoked their talk page access and declined the unblock request. ] (]) 14:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::User has created another account {{u|Human82}}. ] (]) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Also now blocked. ]] 16:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::There's also ] now. ] (]) 16:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Blocked by PhilKnight. ]] 16:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2 ==
::::::Realized that ] hadn't been informed of this conversation, and informed him on his talk page --] <small>]</small> 05:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
*{{userlinks|ZanderAlbatraz1145}}
This user has engaged in a lengthy display of disruption. Namely through incessant incivility I have noticed .


Instances such as , , on , etc. Users such as {{Ping|Waxworker}} and {{Ping|Jon698}} can speak to their experiences, I'll outline mine.
::::::: Not sure what country Mr. Crawford lives in, but in the United States and United Kingdom threats of violence like this constitute ]. ] 05:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


On December 10, I noticed on the article ] page several additions were made that didn't adhere to the article's purpose. Zander restored these with an introductory summary rife with . For the most part there was an attempt to discuss the issue we had, but ultimately did not see eye to eye. I asserted I'd be escalating the issue to garner more substantive dialogue around it, Zander's response includes a needless . I made some attempts at engaging the topic at the article's talk page, in addition to WikiProject Film, it was over a week that saw no input. I would go on to state that (at the time) in two days, I would restore the page to it's status quo. I would do so, . Zander , and after another terse interaction, I moved to nominate the article for deletion, finding with the conflicting views of what Unrealized meant, it was too open ended and led to these lists being essentially trivia. Since then, Zander has elected to take an antagonistic approach towards me, making swipes they openly admit , and now that I am putting said comments , Zander is now doing the editing equivalent of mockingly repeating me, with edits such as and .
::::::I've blocked him for ten days. I suspect ] might be right that some extra-wiki goings on have put Brian on extreme edge, especially as he'd never been blocked until a week ago and has now been blocked twice for the same sort of lashing out. Of course, there's no excuse to threaten users with violence. Other admins are free to review the situation and my block, and change it if you feel it is appropriate to do so. ]]] ] 05:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Yep I'd agree with that. Well you know that's supposed to be the point of blocks. Preventive, not punitive. --]<sup>]</sup> 07:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


This editor displays no interest in conducting themselves cordially or cooperatively on this website. ] 23:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::It's a shame. I think Brian has external issues, but I also think that ] did not exactly help here, epecially after I posted a header asking people not to troll. That said, the problem is with Brian not with other people (except in as much as they engage in the addition of ludicrous sophomoric content which annoys people like Brian and me, not that I'm saying Badgerpatrol does this since I've not looked). I'll email Brian again. ] 09:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:I've given them a warning for canvassing: - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm quite annoyed at being accused of trolling here, JzG. My to Brian was in response to diatribe on my talk page, which (I think) was in turn prompted (in some tangential way) by . In hindsight, I regret that last comment, but I certainly don't think it was offensive or provocative, nor out of keeping with the normal back and forth associated with RfA discussions. I haven't ever been engaged in any previous disputes with Brian (except for good-natured and good faith discussion on AfD), and in the past I've actually tried to mitigate his abrasive behaviour (e.g. , see also )). I'm not upset with Brian; if he's having problems he's having problems, everybody does stupid things sometimes in difficult circumstances, and the style of his comments (which admittedly was always robust and abrasive) has recently changed to such an extent that I frankly wonder whether his account has been hijacked by someone else, as seems to have happened in the past. If anything, I'm a bit more aggrieved at being accused of trolling- that just isn't the case, and it's all a bit disappointing. ] 12:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
: - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Additional history on Brian's edits at ]: {{unsigned|Rdos}}
:Quite frankly, that's the most sensible thing Brian has said recently. ]<I><B>/</B>/<B>/</B></I><small>]</small> 10:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC) ::And they appear to be continuing editing while ignoring here. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::Not very sensible, because it is not the consensus there. Most of the editors happens to agree with my opinion and not his. The accusations were also totally unfounded. --] 10:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I have to say, I'm in Proto's camp on that one. Sorry, but it's true. -]<sup>]</sup> 13:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I don't mind. As long as these "agreers" doesn't have a Category:Aspergian Wikipedians tag on their user page I will only take it as more ] bullying. --] 13:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::That's fine, we'll just self-diagnose like you did and all will be well... ] 13:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::::::Why don't you do that? Try the Aspie-quiz! ;-) --] 14:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::::No, I think it's better to go the whole hog and make up my own test... ] 20:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


== SPA ] back at it on ] ==
::::::::You'd better distribute it to some hundred (or preferable thousands) participants and let them indicate if they are diagnosed. Ideally, you should screen all particpants for ASDs with DSM. Then you can take it yourself and compare results. It's not as easy as you claim it is. I've spent many hundred hours on this project. Additionally, many participants in the autistic community and others have helped my by taking time to fill it out. Aspie-quiz is probably one of the largest databases available on autistic traits. --] 20:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


Hi, all, I'd like some assistance with the SPA ], who's been POV pushing on the ] article since . A quick view of their extremely short edit history shows that their sole focus is on pushing a vaccine-denialist POV on that and similar COVID-related topics. Started out on the talk page and BLPN, but now they've graduated to edit-warring on the article itself; they were active in June, made a single related edit in October, but now they appear to be . They've already , and have received an warning--to which they were . Would appreciate a more permanent resolution, either a COVID-19 topic ban or just an indef considering their SPA status, so they don't just go back into hibernation and then turn up again like a bad penny. (And yeah, given this context, I don't love the implications of the username "Tikitorch2", either.) Thanks, ]&nbsp;]] 05:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I think that this violent and abusive user should be blocked for longer. ] 20:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


:]? ] (]) 06:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
== {{vandal|Paul adams}} ==
::{{duck}}. I'm sending this ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 11:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::, so might just be generic disruption. - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:What are you implying with regard to my username? My edit history has been limited to trying to correct two red flags that stood out so much that I followed the citations when I was searching these scientists who were in the news for censorship. It has been enlightening learning how wikipedia selectively chooses secondary sources but discourages the use of primary sources to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible.
:For my two attempted contributions to Misplaced Pages, the two red flags were pretty dramatic to prompt me to check out the citations--Sunetra Gupta's article implied more than 1 in 1000 people in England died from Covid in spring 2020 in an effort to discredit her, which was trivially easy to google as untrue. I corrected that without really changing the overall narrative. The article for Martin Kulldorff...I would probably not have spent time looking at the sources or realized how unscientific Kulldorff's critics were had there not been such superfluous "Wikivoice" editorializing and synthesizing suggesting Kulldorff lied in an essay to the public. ] (]) 06:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::] are not to be used for anything but simple facts about a subject. They absolutely are not to be used {{tqq|to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible}} because that is ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Not sure why you felt the need to repeat what I said. Maybe I am the sock puppeteer! ] (]) 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::What I am implying is that such a username in the context of an account pushing COVID-denialist rhetoric that flies in the face of the sources and Misplaced Pages policy is . Anyway, this editor continues to be a drain of editor time and attention. ]&nbsp;]] 14:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Ah an absurd, convoluted, and contrived personal attack. Assuming anyone but you knew tiki torches were present at a political event where someone was killed, why would I choose my username based on that? Tikitorches provide light, warmth, and keep the mosquitos away. I guess its not surprising an editor named writ keeper attacks the editor rather than effectively debating the subject of the edit. ] (]) 03:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Even if it was a personal attack, making one ''back'' isn't going to fly here. Knock it off. - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::], your edits are being examined at ANI. This is not a pleasant experience, I'll admit. So, it's best for you not to dig yourself into a hole. I know the instinct is to defend yourself but it doesn't help your situation to come out swinging. It's probably to your benefit to address any concerns that have been raised and say no more than that. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


== Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64 ==
This user is repeatedly vandalising the ] and ] articles, adding erroneous information and blanking large amounts of content . This has been going on since early April. The user attacks only these two articles and ever since ], an undercover reporter, was exposed trying to bribe a British politician, ]. It is no coincidence that the journalist in question has attempted legal measures to prevent the publication of his photograph - which failed - and now ] is attempting to remove the journalist's photograph from Misplaced Pages. He refuses to engage in any meaningful discussion, despite appeals on his talk page. On the ] talk page, the user writes in block capitals, accusing Misplaced Pages of assisting paedophiles and drug dealers by publishing the photograph. Instead of continually having to revert his vandalism, could the admins just block him?--] 10:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
{{Atop|Blocked for one month.--] (]) 14:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)}}
{{userlinks|2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64}} - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued after block expired. /64 has previously been blocked on December 8th for a week due to "Persistent unsourced genre changes", and 2 weeks on September 7th due to addition of unsourced content. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: {{diff|The Iron Giant|prev|1264168891|1}}, {{diff|Joker (2019 film)|prev|1264169891|2}}, {{diff|Candyman (2021 film)|prev|1264170248|3}}, {{diff|Spirited (film)|prev|1264235847|4}}, {{diff|Sausage Party: Foodtopia|prev|1264237619|5}}. ] (]) 10:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
{{Abot}}


== Disruptive editing ] ==
:{{vandal|Paul adams}} is continuing to vandalise the ] article, removing sourced material and Mahmood's photograph: . I wonder whether anyone is going to take this seriously and block this vandal, or shall I just keep reverting regardless?--] 23:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = I've protected the page for 24 hours. @] and @] are both warned against edit warring, including during the course of this discussion. RR, HR, and .82 should follow ] processes. Further disruptive editing or edit warring after page protection expires will result in blocks. ] (]/]) 21:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


] has been trying for about a month now to put across his own opinion about the party' infobox. An opinion which he cannot back up with any source whatsoever. Although it has been pointed out to him by both the user ] and me, continues the disruptive editing. Ιt is worth noting that although other users made the same "mistake", when the lack of sources to support the addition was pointed out to them, they accepted it and did not continue to try to pass on their own opinion.
::The situation is repeating itself today on the ] article: . Could it be locked in the unvandalised state (ie the version with Mazher Mahmood's picture, which keeps getting removed)? And is there any possibility of enforcing a block on {{vandal|Paul adams}} and/or his IP address?--] 20:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Movement_for_Democracy_(Greece)#5/300
:::Another act of vandalism by {{vandal|Paul adams}}. How long are admins going to ignore this? Please block the editor or lock the article on the unvandalised version.--] 12:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Movement_for_Democracy
::::Yet another act of vandalism by the same user: - are admins going to continue to ignore this?--] 11:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Disruptive_editing....again
:::::Another case of systematic vandalism by ]: - why are admins ignoring this?--] 12:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


*'''I agree with this poster 100%. This is ridiculous and the vandalism must stop'''. ] 23:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 19:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
I too agree entirely with the above points. ] is repeatedly blanking sections of the ] article relating to the subject's exposure by British Member of Parliament ], falsely claiming the material, which is wholly factual and sourced, to be 'disputed'. He also constantly removes a photograph of Mahmood which has since April been deemed fit for publication after a ruling by the British courts. This user is in flagrant violation of several Misplaced Pages rules, and IMO should be blocked permanently, and a watch kept for possible use of sockpuppetry. (So far, there have also been a few instances of edits identical to those of the user in question being made from an anonymous IP address). ] 17:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:This is a content dispute, not a conduct dispute. Since discussing the issue on article talk has not worked, please follow ] processes, such as seeking guidance at ] or ], or going to ]. ] (]/]) 19:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:I've warned him. It would have got more attention if you'd put it on ] rather than this overlong page. ] 12:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::@] taking a look because I've been tagged. While there may be content elements to it I think this has gone into a behavioural issue, namely due to it being a user actively edit warring without providing sources but instead endlessly insisting on edits that are entirely ]. ] (]) 20:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::It is not a problem of content but of behaviour. His claim is original research, is his own conclusion and is not verified by any source. He knows it, has admitted it, and yet he insists on adding it. ] (]) 20:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


(nac) ] is a moderately stable DAB page, with which I have been involved. I assume this dispute relates to ]. ] (]) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
=== Provocative epitaph to Blu Aardvark as Wikipedian ===
{{abot}}


== Sugar Bear returns with personal attacks ==
Blu Aardvark started off, as many of us do, as a good earnest newbie Wikipedian. He did a few questionable things and got a taste of some of the Misplaced Pages community's officiousness. He did not handle it well and flamed out in a puerile fashion. He then co-founded a criticism site, quite likely with good intentions, but just stood by when it got out of hand and other members launched some vicious attacks. He had a change of heart and tried to come back to Misplaced Pages, but the community was unforgiving and reacted with anger. This time he left with class and maturity, trapping us in our own officiousness in a nice coup de grace. It sounds as if he has matured and learned from the debacle; let us hope that, in time, the Misplaced Pages community will as well. ] 04:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=/24 blocked for two weeks. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}}
*{{rangevandal|166.181.224.0/19}}
*]


Using the IP range ], Sugar Bear has returned to Misplaced Pages to disrupt film and music articles. After I recognized this fact and began reverting him, Sugar Bear began a campaign of personal attacks at my talk page, using the IP ]. Can we get a rangeblock?
Of course, his final actions were nothing more than an attempt to sow confusion by playing the "Ohh look at me, I'm making good edits but you're blocking me anyway!" card. That is to say, he wasn't editing because he truly cared about making the encyclopedia better, only to try to make us look bad. --] 04:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
: We really should avoid talking about other user's motivations, since it is complete supposition. - ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 15:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


There's a decade-plus history of this vandal attacking me, for instance his creation of the username ]. I can spot his contributions quite easily by now. ] (]) 22:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
== AOL vandal ==


.I've blocked the current IP, I may not have time to properly investigate the range right now. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Some vandal has been repeatedly vandalizing ] from AOL (using multiple IP addresses). I don't know exactly what to do about it (they have persisted despite multiple warnings, and from the edit descriptions it is obviously vandalism and not some newbie's tests). ] 04:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


::Past disruption from nearby IPs includes the following:
:The article is s-protected. (So now I suppose the AOLuser will simply indulge his squalid little masturbation fantasies elsewhere.) ] 05:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::*] was blocked in 2018 and 2019.
::*] was blocked in 2018 for one month.
::*] was blocked in 2020, identifying Sugar Bear.
::*] was blocked twice in 2020 for personal attacks.
::*] was rangeblocked in 2023 for three years. ] (]) 22:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


::I've blocked the current /24 for two weeks, but I see a lot of potential for collateral damage for longer or broader blocks. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::Well, they've started on my talk page. (see ]) ] 15:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}
:::Your talk page can be ] too. Do you want that? ] | ] 21:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC).


== Comments by Locke Cole ==
::::Not neccessarily. Can I post a warning on their talk page for that? ] 03:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = No support for a block for either party, and filer is fine with closure. ] ] 16:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


'''Involved''': {{userlinks|Locke Cole}}
:I've deleted the vandal edits (and the associated reverts) from the history of ], since some of the vandalism was in the edit summaries (which were also quite long and typed in ALL CAPS). —] <small>(])</small> 17:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
So I honestly think we should both receive a (24 hr) block for our behavior, but bringing it here for that to happen. This started when I posted a list of "keep" votes with no rationale at ]. Comments made by Locke Cole in response to the list include:
* {{tq|Sour grapes are over there, in case you're lost.}}
::I replied to this with {{tq|What?? Voting on an AfD should be policy-based, not just "keep" or "he's too notable". I'm giving evidence to my claim that keep votes were given unnecessarily large amounts of weight when closing this. Yes, I left out the ones with evidence, because that wasn't the point of the list. Again, would you give weight to the five keep votes that just said "keep"? I believe this is the second time I've had to say this to you, but way to WP:ABF.}}
* {{tq|Well, you're already violating WP:DRVPURPOSE #8 by casting WP:ASPERSIONS about other editors. Carry on, I look forward to seeing you blocked for being an idiot.}}
::And I replied to this one with {{tq|Yes, I removed a comment after realizing it violated our aspersions policy. Do you have an issue with that? Feel free to take this to ANI if you want to continue, as it’s clogging up the DRV.}}
This user has a long history of behavioral blocks, including '''six '''civility blocks over a span of nine years. Since this behavior clearly won't be getting better, bringing it here. It's up to y'all to decide if a BOOMERANG should happen, if we should both be blocked, or only one party gets the hammer. :) ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 02:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


:I'm not sure that the cited comments are in themselves enough to justify a block. I also note that LC has recently ]. Speaking from experience, I can state that when in deep mourning we are not always at our best. That said, I find LC's block log disturbing.-] (]) 02:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::You'll have to again. Looks like there's some more vandalism. ] 01:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::While I do get that, and I do respect that and am deeply sorry that happened to them, this behavior has been going on since late 2005, and includes an arbitration request, hence why I brought it directly here. Calling me an "idiot" was 100% an NPA vio, and having a personal loss shouldn't excuse that (also speaking from experience with the loss of my mother from ] in 2014). This is a rare case where I'll say that a block log should give you an idea of whether this behavior will continue. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 02:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Yeah. Fixed it again. ] | ] 12:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC).
:::{{tqq|bolding policies I've added at the end}} - I'll just note that every one of the "policies" you linked to (bar ], where I'm pretty sure you wanted ]) goes to ]. Which is very useful and well-thought-out, and by all means should be used as a tool at AfD, but is not policy. It's an essay ''on'' policy. There's a difference. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Okay then, per that I've removed the list. The comments still stand though. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*So the OP wants themselves and the other party to receive blocks for incivility? Why don't you just stop being rude to each other? Change your own behavior. Opening this discussion is just drawing attention to a few comments that otherwise would have likely been forgotten. I don't see how this post helps the situation at all. Just do better. And if Locke Cole comes to this discussion, I pray this doesn't devolve into bickering. Let's all just get back to editing productively and not taking shots at each other. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*:I don’t know, maybe I just thought it’d continue and brought it here, likely too early. Is it possible to close this? ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 13:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


:From what I read from the DRV, it definitely seemed like it got heated, but it definitely seemed to cool down. Trouts for sure, but I don't see why blocks are necessary. As for you, given that you're asking to be punished, you seem to recognize what you did wrong, and you pledge to not continue this behavior. Just change your password for a day or a week and change it back later; I don't think admin intervention is necessarily warranted. ] (]) 11:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::: I strongly suggest that this IP be banned. They have recieved multiple final warnings, and recently vandalized Today's Featured Article by blanking it and replacing it with hundreds of lines of nonsense. ] 15:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::Though as actual admins above have mentioned, their block history is indeed concerning. ] (]) 11:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== ] ==
::::Actually, I think maybe my userpage should be protected. It has been vandalized twice now. ] 04:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|result=Just officially closing this discussion as the account involved has been globally blocked. If an editor has Spore on your Watchlist and you see this occurring again, contact your local administrator. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)}}
This user made 500 edits to their user page which were all completely useless (] to inflate their edit count) and then once receiving extended-confirmed permissions vandalized ] by copypasting another article. Their user page shows them editing and counting to 500. ]] 04:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


:It's a ], and I just reported to AIV. ] (]) 04:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::No more often than mine has. Though "vandalized" seems to aggrandize the relevant, er, contributions of this birdbrain, who seems to be under the delusion that various people here (you, me, whoever) are proctologists. Your user page is on my watchlist. -- ] 05:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


::Would it be possible to put up some kind of filter to alert for this? Something that…say…catches when more than 25 edits are made in a single space (user space for example) or something that would trip if the edits added less than 5 characters consistently? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::::Well, it's not like the guy's blanking my userpage or anything, but I do think posting obscene comments counts as "vandalism". ] 05:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::There is a filter for this. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=International+Space+Station0&offset=20241222044736, "New account unusual activity" covers exactly this. ] (]) 05:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*This account has been globally blocked as an LTA so it shouldn't be an issue. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*:At what point is it appropriate to selectively delete their hundreds of edits of nonsense from the page history?
*:Or is that just something that isn't done? &ndash; ] (]) (]) 05:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*::If you are talking ], there is rarely a good reason for it's use at present. If instead you mean ] see ] and ]. ] (]) 05:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I've gone ahead and revdel'd the lot of them, as cut-and-pasting from other articles without proper attribution is copyvio and thus RD1able. Selective deletion (making the edits go away from the history) is probably not going to happen, if it's even technically possible for an article with almost *9500* revisions (I know ]!). - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== POV IP editor and 2024 Kobani clashes ==
:::::IP adress 64.12.116.14 needs to be banned. It has recieved 29 warnings, 2 blocks, and 10 final warnings. It blanked yesterday's FA and replaced it with obsene comments. ] 18:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}
This engages in BLP and POV pushing with things like this and this , and then edit warring and then makes personal attacks like this , in a source documenting casualties for all of December instead of the specific date, and then when he is reverted by another editor respond with . I believe this person is ] to build an encyclopedia, and also the ] article should potentially be given semi-protection status as it's part of the Syrian Civil War which has discretionary sanctions. Thanks. ] (]) 05:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:Oh also . ] (]) 05:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{an3|b|72 hours}} (]) and pages protected ] 13:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Promotional content about Elvenking (band) ==
::::::Unfortunately, AOL doesn't work that way. The vandal would continue and hundreds of other AOL users would be inconvenienced when their IP hopped through that number. (])<sup>(])</sup> 18:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = There does not appear to be an actionable COI here, just an avid fan. Content issues can be handled through the appropriate channels. {{ping|Elvenlegions}} please be mindful of musical notability and what Misplaced Pages is and isn't for. ] ] 17:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


:::::::Also, he's vandalized from multiple AOL IP addresses (so, for all I know, all AOL users would be blocked). ] 19:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


I noticed a consistent addition of promotional content about an apparently unencyclopedic band, namely ], with articles being also dedicated to each band member (eg.
::::::::I have read the way Ip adresses work on AOL, but still, This adress repeatedly blanks pages, and I have yet to see a constructive edit. If someone has a problem with it, they can create an account. If there was a reason to believe that this IP was helping Misplaced Pages, I wouldnt request this, but within an hour yesterday, they blanked the same page 5 times, in 2 waves. Once 3 times in 30 minnutes, then waited a few minnutes, then continued to blank it. ] 23:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
] and ]) and their unsold discography, which also got a dedicated template ({{tl|Elvenking}}). I also noticed a weird pattern by ], which appears to be either a very big fan or in conflict of interests, as well as other accounts apparently created just to support the band (eg. ]).<span id="Est._2021:1734845816539:WikipediaFTTCLNAdministrators&apos;_noticeboard/Incidents" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;] (] <b>·</b> ]) 05:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</span>


:I am indeed a big fan of the band and am trying to update the band's wikipedia information to make it as accurate as possible so people can learn about the band. I hope this helps support the band and also helps wikipedia readers and users who wish to learn more about the band. ] (]) 06:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::But that's the problem - they can't just create an account :) Logged in users will still be hit by AOL IP blocks (at least under the current blocking system, see ]). We can't say that IP isn't "helping Misplaced Pages" because that IP changes ownership every few minutes. That's the big problem with AOL and their proxy system - no one can be held accountable for their edits (even more so than regular anon edits). ] <sub><font color="green">// bornhj</font> ]</sub> 02:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
:*If these musicians are not notable, you can always tag the articles CSD A7. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::Understood, Elvenlegions, but ]. If the band, nor its members, nor its discography qualify as notable under the ], then the band's fans will have to learn about it elsewhere. ] 07:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Disruptive editor on ] ==
::::::Well, I don't think Mo-Al should have to put up with that, so I've semiprotected his talk. Mo-Al, please let me know if the person migrates to your userpage (very common move in my experience), then I'll protect that as well. I don't care about most kinds of vandalism to my pages—least of all a blanking—but if some particular kind of idiocy starts to get to me, then I sprotect for a few days. (That reminds me, time to unprotect my pages.) Admins can do that, and a regular user should get to make the same call. (A la lanterne les aristos!) ] | ] 02:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC).


User ] has repeatedly removed reliably sourced refs to the genres infobox by removing ] simply because they don't believe it to be correct as the ref is "new" and that the artist isn't that genre. I had sent them two warnings now and also explained that's not how this works, so they decided to add more genres with refs that don't even mention the genres they included. I do not believe this editor is going to cooperate. ] (]) 08:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I was refering in general to the users of the IP adress. All of their edits have since been reverted. I have all ready voiced my opinion on ]. It isnt like this editor is trying to hide the fact their vandalizing. Their recent edits have listed the text they replaced the article with. I am just sick of tracking down vandals only to find out it's an AOL IP and I cant do anything that will change their editing habits. ] 03:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


:User:Pillowdelight changed the genre list of When the Pawn... which originally had been a variation of certain genres: Art pop, jazz rock, art rock, alternative rock, jazz pop, chamber pop, all of which are somewhat accurate and agreed upon by various editors of this page over many years. It was changed to just Alt pop, a genre that is used to describe the newer sounds of pop in the early 2010s with Lorde, Sky Ferreira and Lana del rey. It is not a genre that fits the album hence it has never before user:Pillowdelight been described as such beyond what her poor source says, a Fiona Apple revisit (that is not even about When the pawn.. specifically) from a new, small and virtually unheard of web magazine. Sources such as Rateyourmusic, allmusic and Pitchfork are far more accurate and robust and that's why this album has never been described as alt pop. That genre did not exist at the time of the release of the album. The source needs to be accurate, it is not. It's not an album review, it is a fluff article about Fiona Apple by a small web magazine. It's not even about When the pawn... specifically, it makes no sense. I think the other editors agree, it is inaccurate.
== Request for help ==
:Allmusic and pitchfork are far better sources. I have added both as sources. I didn't change the genre list, I simply changed it back to the genre list that had stood there the longest before user:Pillowdelight changed it a few months ago for the first time, having never touched this page before yet complaining about other editors. ] (]) 18:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Longislandtea}} I removed the genres because they're unsourced, which I stated in many edit summaries you keep reverting, as well as on your talk page. It doesn't matter that just because you believe a source another user added calling the album alternative pop is incorrect and unreliable because it's "new, small and virtually unheard of" is a ridiculously excuse. Read ] it states — {{xt|genres must be stated and referenced in the body of the article; personal opinions or original research must not be included.}} The sources you have added specifically from Pitchfork don't state the genres you've listed. ] (]) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Sources need to be '''legitimate''' and''' relevant'''. Your source is not relevant and it is disputed. Pitchfork is added because they describe the album as an alternative album several times in the review and the genre category is ROCK. What is alternative and rock? Alternative rock. That is how the album was marketed. You can't cherrypick a single article to make a case for a genre that the album absolutely is not in. I will remove the Pitchfork source, that's fine. There's numerous ones including from Allmusic that clearly state that it is an alternative rock album. The album was even added to Misplaced Pages's page for alt rock albums ages ago. This is very uncontroversial. Just having alternative rock is also lacking; jazz fusion, art pop (the album is already added on the wikipedia page for art pop albums) and art rock are accurate too and have been there for ages but alas! Let's get rid of it all to only serve your opinion. Numerous albums have unsourced genres might I add, but the vast of amount of editors agree to it because they know these accurately describe the album, these are the scenes that the album and artist comes from and sourcing for genres can often times be lacking. In that case, rather than trying to look for BAD sources, it's better to agree with the consensus. In our case, we do have sources. Rateyourmusic has been used as a source for adding art pop, alternative rock, jazz pop, fusion, art rock and chamber pop as genres before. ] (]) 20:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Here's the page for what is considered acceptable sources {{lw|Acceptable sources}}.
::::''Relevance. Sources must be relevant--there must be some reason for the reader to care about what the author has to say. For example, the opinion of a random individual on the presidency of George W. Bush, as published in a letter to the editor of a major newspaper, is not relevant; and thus should not be included--even though it is published, traceable to its author, and given in a reputable publication. Relevance can be imputed several ways--through explicit personal knowledge, through subject-matter authority, through general notability of the author, through demonstrable correlation with the opinion(s) of a large group of people, etc.''
::::A large group of people, the editors of When the Pawn...'s page throughout the years, thousands of people on music reviewing sites and numerous music journalists from legitimate publications do not agree with what this one article you cherrypicked states.
::::''Note that this policy is the minimum standard for inclusion as a reference in Misplaced Pages. Sources may meet this standard and still not be authoritative, reliable, accurate, free from bias, or undisputed. Sources which meet this minimum standard but which fail to meet stricter standards may be used, but should be used with caution. In particular, such sources should be explicitly attributed to their author(s) or publisher(s) in an article's prose (rather than being presented as fact with the author only given in the notes), and disputes considering the source's veracity should be described.''
::::Meaning you can't just add any genre because some random source says it when it goes against larger and more reliable sources as well as it is controversial.
::::Thank you and please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand. ] (]) 21:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::]. Note that accusing editors of vandalism when they are not, in fact, vandalising can be considered a ], so I'd suggest you strike that comment. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Okay, I strike. ] (]) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::You didn't actually strike any comments. To do so, do this <nowiki><s>Comment</s></nowiki> which will make it look like this <s>Comment</s>. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::<s> please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand.</s> ] (]) 22:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Longislandtea}} How is the source considered not relevant and where was this dispute? AllMusic ''does not'' call the album alternative rock at all within its article. Rate Your Music is also not a source it's user generated which is against Misplaced Pages. I really wish an admin would comment on this because this is getting absolutely nowhere. ] (]) 21:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Here's another source describing it as an alternative rock and jazz fusion album
:::::https://www.the-solute.com/the-solute-record-club-fiona-apple-when-the-pawn/
:::::Alt pop is not accurate. If you're so adamant about alt pop, please argue why. It is completely inaccurate and you have one singular source over music journalists and music sites. Allmusic does categorize it as alternative rock, Pitchfork has categorized it as rock since 1999 of its release. There was NO Alt-pop at the time. It still isn't. These are different genres. Art pop is not Alt pop. You edited the page one time in October 2024 only to get rid of the genre list that editors agreed upon to add Alt pop which makes no sense whatsoever. ] (]) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have now added a new source to the genre list. If you have any problems with the new source, tell me. But it's much more accurate this way. It's still sad to see the whole genre list that was originally there, so much more descriptive and fitting, hacked away but oh well. ] (]) 21:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Pitchfork's categorizations mean basically nothing. They have ten categories, one of which is "Pop/R&B", and another of which is "Global". By the way, you should just stop caring about this, because sources misclassify genres of music chronically and everywhere you look. Take your passion to RateYourMusic. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:All of this discussion should be taking place on the article's talk page (which neither editor has used). ]&nbsp;] 21:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Schazjmd}} I'm awaiting for an admin to respond. This conversation is getting nowhere hence the reason why I brought it here in the first place. I've tried to explain to the user on their talk page along with this entire thread and it's getting nowhere. {{ping|The Bushranger}} you left a comment but could you please share your opinion on the dispute? Or possibly ping an admin who's familiar with music if this isn't your area of familiarity? ] (]) 21:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::There was no reason to bring this conversation here. I talked to you directly but go no real reply or any arguments despite adding sources and explaining why it's not an Alt pop album. I've explained to you well enough. Please stop trying to get admins to ban me simply because I (and other editors) recognize that the genre list that you got rid of was far more fitting. There's a new genre list now with sources but it is not Alt-pop. The album was already added to the wikipedia album pages for Alternative rock and art pop. I'm familiar with these genres and Fiona Apple specifically to know that it's accurate hence why the genre list has been that way for years. If you're adamant about sources, there is a source. Accusing me of not sourcing should be considered a false accusation at this point. Not all sources are equal either and I've tried explaining that to you. ] (]) 21:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::], you were given good advice which is to have this discussion on the article talk page which neither editor has posted at yet. This is a content dispute. If no action has been taken yet by an administrator, it's likely because they don't agree with your statement that action needs to be taken. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Okay, will do. Thank you Liz. ] (]) 22:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


=== Irrelevant sources and unnecessary changes to genre list on {{pagelinks|When the Pawn...}} ===
I've been trying for some while to keep a lid on a series of articles about ] (PRT), where there is a tendency among the small community of editors to let their enthusiasm for the technology overcome what I view as the appropriate scpeticism of a technology which, after forty years, has zero installed base.


On October 22 2024, {{lu|Pillowdelight}} changed the genre list that has stood in place for years and has been a variation of the same variety of genres: Art pop, art rock, jazz, alternative rock, jazz rock, chamber pop and jazz pop. Across the biggest music sites, this is what the album is described as. The user changed it to Alt pop using a single irrelevant and unreliable source. The album is not described as such anywhere else. The user is going against the general consensus. Sources have now been added to the genre list and I don't feel as though that would mean I'm breaking any rules. The user is threatening to get another editor banned because they're uncooperative with how us other editors feel the genre list should look like. It's an album that has been categorized as rock by Pitchfork at the time of its release and was added to rock charts when released too.
As part of this a cartoonist called Ken Avidor made some edits a while back as ] in respect of the camnpaign for PRT in his town. There was apparently some good old fashioned pork-barrel politics there. Thisgs are often heated but usually civil, however at least one editor has it in for Avidor, representing him as an extremist (in the way that creators of huge articles on ] are not). Apparently because I am sceptical of the claims of PRT as a widespread urban mode ''despite its approval byu the German government'' (which nonetheless never actually built it), I am a POV-pusher like Avidor. Ah well, I'm an evil rouge admin and I can take it.
Here's how the genre list has looked over a long period of time, without much controversy from editors not readers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1178937091 from 2023


https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1049316366 from 2021
However, there are a number of things in ], ] and ] which might be construed as attacks on ], who is no longer active here. He has posted to my Talk page asking if this is reasonable, I'm inclined to think not. Since I am not considered neutral by these guys (in a he who is not for me is agin me kind of way) I'd appreciate someone having a look at the comments made about Avidor on those pages. Thanks. ] 16:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


Thank you. ] (]) 19:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:I am one of the "enthusiastic editors" of which JzG speaks. I welcome more input into this issue. ] 18:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:Why do people have to argue about what genre music is rather than just listening to it, and hopefully enjoying it? ] (]) 19:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::The genre list was fine and accurate and uncontroversial until this user decided to remove the entire thing. It's important that the genre list is accurate. People find albums through genres. There's other reasons as well. ] (]) 20:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::This is neither here nor there, but I thought albums are generally sorted in alphabetical order by band name or the musician's last name.
:::Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or my information is incomplete. ] (]) 22:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I was trying to explain the important of listing genres accurately. If you go to a record store then yes, albums are listed in alphabetical order. But they're still put in categories of genres. ] (]) 22:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::If we were going to list musical genres "accurately," we wouldn't bother at all. Except in very broad strokes ("rock," "punk," "Baroque," etc), so many of these horribly subjective "genres" are made up by bored media writers and bands that hate the notion of being The Same As Everyone Else. Get ten people to listen to ten different tracks of heavy metal, and you won't get as many as a third of them agreeing on any of them on the doom/grudge/dark/death/Goth/Viking/sludge/*-grind/*-core/etc etc etc spectrum. Beyond that, arguing whether any given artist is "that genre" is ''very'' highly subjective. (Hell, I've sung Baroque, classical, folk, rock, ethnic, shape note, so many genres I can't readily count.) ] 15:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


== Bunch of racist IPs/account ==
::I skimmed the pages quickly. Mostly the conflict is about figuring out what weight to give the companies' claims regarding PRT compared with independent analyses and analyses by other parties with varying degrees of involvement. I did find a number of comments (mostly on ]) that could be construed as personal in nature, such as ''Avidor's positions are conspiracy theories with absolutely no verifiable basis.'' There is a certain amount of discussion of individual editors' motives (on both sides) that doesn't have any direct bearing on article content and could probably be deleted without harming the article's development. ] 19:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Sent packing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}}
Article: ]
* {{user|GREEKMASTER7281}}
* {{ip|112.202.57.150}}
* {{ip|186.154.62.233}}
] (]) 13:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


:Named account indeffed, IPs blocked for 72 hours each. ]] 14:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Please do. I await with baited breath some good citations fomr the engineering journals - thus far most of it comes either from designers of never-built systems or academics engaged in acrimony. ] 22:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Urgent need for page protection on BLP ==
::::If you're looking for sources describing PRT technology, you might start with this that describes 8 years of US-government sponsored research from the 1970s. If that's not enough, take a look at some more on the topic. There have also been fully functioning PRT prototypes built and tested in Germany, the UK, and Japan, and there are several others in active development.
{{atop
| result = Protection applies. Appears admin eyes are on the Talk page. ] ] 19:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


There is currently a content dispute going on at ] involving allegations of a mental health crisis with mulitple IPs involved in a dispute over wether the information is reliable or not. A discussion is underway on the article's talkpage, but in the meantime there is revert warring taking place on the article. The page could really benefit from temporary semi protection. -- ] (]) 18:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Against this, the main sources of skepticism are:
:Looks like ] got it. ] (]) 19:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::# An anonymously written which is posted on the advocacy site of PRT's main transit competitor (], which JzG favors), and which has been the subject of at least four , and:
::{{reply to|DMacks}} Thanks! Yeah. I assume they will also need a third-party closer given the heated nature of the argument. -- ] (]) 19:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::# A political run by the aforementioned ''Road Kill Bill'' cartoonist, Ken Avidor, for whom JzG has expressed great admiration ()
{{abot}}


== Multiple users breaking 3RR on Gilman School article ==
::::JzG has balanced these two sets of sources and decided unilaterally that "skepticism is the majority view" on PRT, and used this as justification for suppressing verifiable information that runs counter to his skeptical view.


::::After three months, the debate rages on, as one admin has repeatedly reverted good edits from at least four different editors, based solely on the "article balance" argument. As you might imagine, things have gotten heated at times.


::::The debate is all there, in its full glory, if anyone is interested in reading in it. You'd better set aside about 15 hours, though. :-) ] 01:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Two users are actively engaged in an ongoing edit war on ], with both {{user13|Counterfeit_Purses}} breaking 3RR , , , and {{user13|Statistical_Infighting}} being right at 3 Reverts
*I removed some comments from ] that might be broadly construed as personal attacks on Avidor. Since he has not edited PRT articles since April, I think it is unfair to him to have other editors talking ''about'' him and comparing their conduct to his (especially when the comparison is negative to Avidor). (He is not mentioned in ], and on ] he was present at the time to defend himself.) Of course, in general I think that discussing the person rather than the content of his or her edits is generally unproductive, but at least the current participants can defend themselves. ] 03:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
, , .


This seems to go back to December 9th, with the first editor (Counterfeit) removing it and , on the 17th, , and then being at the above today.
::I have no issue with anything you removed (and I appreciate your dispassionate assistance in this matter), but I do feel we are being a little reactionary here. When Avidor was active he regularly referred to us as "wackos", "con-artists", "cultists", and "crackpots". Nothing in what was just removed remotely approaches that. Does this have anything to do with the fact that Avidor has publicly Misplaced Pages and has joined ? ] 04:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I've never heard of Avidor before today, much less his new associations. I also did not remove any comments directed to him or about him that dated to times when he was contributing and thus able to respond for himself. I just think it's poor form to make (arguably) negative comments about a user who has chosen to leave, because it forces him to either let the characterizations stand or to return against his wishes to defend himself, and I would have the same view about anyone else who has left the project. ] 04:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::OK, I didn't intend to question your motives. I was just curious if other factors were driving this. ] 05:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::No prob. It was a fair question. ] 06:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


] (])
:::::: Excuse me. I don't have a problem with discouraging or mediating personal attacks. However, I very much do not like the idea that my, and the rest of our, edits have been ]. I will put the comments back in.
*E/C applied. ] ] 19:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{u|Counterfeit Purses}}, please be aware that the ] article was kept in a recent Articles for Deletion debate, so the consensus of the community is that he is notable. Edit warring to keep his name off the alumni list is a ''really bad idea''. ] (]) 20:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] No problem, I've already given up. I would argue that ] applies here, but there's no sense in pushing against the tide. If you're content to have the lede section of Gilman School include "prominent graduates including "alleged murderer Luigi Mangione", I guess that's fine. It seems to be an unusual thing to include and an obvious case of undue weight given to something that is in the news at the moment. Perhaps someone should start a Wikiproject to add famous murderers to the ledes of other schools? ] (]) 22:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Counterfeit Purses}}, in my view, ] is among our most misunderstood policy documents. It begins {{tpq|In principle, all Misplaced Pages articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events.}} I believe that Mangione is notable, the evolving article is acceptable, and his name belongs in the alumni list. Many, many "bad people" are listed as alumni in countless school articles, and it is not at all unusual. The only unusual thing here is that the lead of this particular school article lists alumni, and so I have removed them from the lead. ] (]) 01:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'm glad that misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS is so common because I am going to continue to misunderstand it. I see that Liz Luigi Mangione from the lede before you removed the rest of the list. Acknowledging again that I have given up hope that Mangione will be removed from this article, let me ask you what you think the purpose of these alumni lists is? Including Mangione is an editorial decision. We don't include all notable alumni in these lists, so why should we include Mangione, and why now? It's too soon to know if he will have lasting relevance. ] (]) 04:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{tqq|We don't include all notable alumni in these lists}} Why not? If someone is Wikinotable and went to a Wikinotable school, then they belong in the "Notable alumni" section of that school's page, ] - ] <sub>]</sub> 04:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@] I'm not saying "we shouldn't", I'm saying "we don't". We don't include every notable alumnus in these lists, nor should we because it would lead to long, unhelpful lists stuck in the middle of articles about the schools. ] (]) 04:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::If an alumni list bloats an article, it can be split out. See ]. 11:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) (Oops, signing) ] (]) 16:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Of course that's always an option, but what I am saying is that it isn't desirable to have every alumnus listed in an article for a school. Ideally, it would be a selection of alumni who have made significant achievements in their field. Otherwise, it's just trivia. Am I wrong? ] (]) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes. You're making a value judgment that some alumni (with articles, else they most definitely should not be included) are more notable than others. That is ]. ] (]) 20:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::Yes, that's called editorial judgment. Just like deciding not to include every known fact about something in an article. At some point, it is just trivia. Misplaced Pages is not a database. That info would probably be welcome over on Wikidata, which is a database. Alternatively, someone could just add ] (in this case). ] (]) 20:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::And a new user, who doesn't understand categories and has no idea Wikidata exists, is relying on the list on the page. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


== Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64, yet again ==
:::::: If you want to re"delete" them, please use a strikethrough so that future readers know what the hell we were talking about. ] 19:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Genre warrior sent packing. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}
These personal attacks on me in the Misplaced Pages Talk pages appear on Google searches of my name. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be an Encyclopedia, not an attack-blog. If A.T.E and Freshenneez want to keep writing about me, I suggest they create a Misplaced Pages page on ] that accurately presents my views. If they want to attack me, I suggest they get a free blog at Blogger like David Gow did .] 04:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{userlinks|2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64}} - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued the same behaviour immediately following the end of a 3 month block. See block log and the two previous ANI threads from September (], ]) related to this /64. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: {{diff|You Could Be Born Again|prev|1264637321|1}}, {{diff|Kites are Fun|prev|1264637435|2}}, {{diff|Heaven/Earth|prev|1264641723|3}}, {{diff|Stars/Time/Bubbles/Love|prev|1264642096|4}}, {{diff|...Sing for Very Important People|prev|1264642646|5}}. ] (]) 20:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:Then why don't you complain to Google? Misplaced Pages can't be responsible for what Google displays. ] 04:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:I see the genre warriors are out today. Don't you realise how childish you are? (Not you, ].) ] (]) 20:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::I thought I was the only one who noticed how many were running rampant today. So exhausting. . . ] (]) 20:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::/64 blocked for six months. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 22:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== User:NoahBWill2002 ==
::Now that's just silly. Google just indexes the web; unless you propose that google not index wikipedia at all, obviously wikipedia is responsible for its own content. I think anything said about Avidor while he was an active participant should remain but it is just bad manners to badmouth someone behind their back, even in real life. If Fresheneesz had allowed the comments to remain deleted, they would have disappeared from Google the next time it indexed the site. You could try archiving all the old discussions and tagging the archive page with <nowiki><nofollow></nowiki>; I don't know for sure that will work, but it might keep google from scanning the talk archives. Short of a mutual agreement to "censor" the old discussions (in Fresheneesz' terms) I suppose the only other option is to persuade an uninvolved admin to actually delete the comments from the history. ] 13:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=NOTHERE blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}
*{{userlinks|NoahBWill2002}}
It looks like there's a pretty severe ] issue with this user. Virtually every one of their edits has had to be reverted either for adding copyrighted content/, (), or . Lastly and indicates that they're unlikely to learn from any of this. <br>
(As an aside, I just blocked them on Commons for uploading non-free files after warnings (and having copyright/the issue with their uploads explained them in detail) and uploading out-of-scope files after warnings.)<br>
I think admin action is warranted here. ] (]) 22:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:I 100% agree with ] on this. ] appears completely unable to comprehend and/or follow some of the core rules of Misplaced Pages, especially ] and ], despite multiple editors trying to help them understand. The comment that Squirrel Conspiracy , followed by a series of blatant copyright violations, makes it abundantly clear that this editor is not going to change and is not here to build an encyclopedia. ] (]) 22:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::They have only had an account for a few days. It's seems rather soon to proclaim they are "not going to change". The images they were trying to add have been deleted from the Commons, let's see if they can find other ways to contribute to the project now that they can't promote their artwork here. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 23:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Given ], I'm not sanguine about their intention to contribute productively. ] (]/]) 23:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::They added ] grossly inappropriate religious screed to ] on their third day of editing, then they responded to a warning about it with ]. I had hoped they would get the message but just today they made ] non-NPOV edit apparently based on their religious beliefs. Apart from religious edits, apparently the only other thing they've done is add self-produced fan art to a variety of articles. I'm willing to AGF while they learn what are acceptable edits here but I'd like to see some acknowledgement from them that they understand why all their edits so far have been unacceptable. (It would also show good faith if they would clean up the now-broken links in numerous articles now that their fan art has been deleted from Commons, rather than leaving it for other editors to do.) ] (]) 00:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I have indefinitely blocked NoahBWill2002 as not here to build an encyclopedia. ] (]) 01:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Vandal encounter ==
:::My point was, the content ''had been removed'' (by you) and if Google still had the old content indexed then there was nothing that Misplaced Pages could do. ''I was not aware'' that Fresheneesz had re-inserted the comments.
:::But let me also make two additional points:
:::# None of us could possibly know that Avidor had decided to stop editing. All we knew was that he hadn't participated in a while, and the fight that he had started was still raging between us and JzG. How were we to know he had left for good?
:::# Almost everything that you removed referred to Avidor's well-documented ''views'' and ''claims''. How is that considered a ''personal'' attack? We and JzG were debating Avidor's ''positions'', which, by the way, are almost completely unfounded in reality. That's not a personal attack, that's stating what is verifiably ''true'' -- many of Avidor's claims have been shown to be innacurate or just plain false, including his most oft-repeated claim that PRT is nothing but a hoax, and its promoters, cultists and con-artists. Am I to be accused of hurling attacks for attacking someone's ''viewpoint'' that I'm a con-artist? ] 14:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


] seems to be a vandal who seems to be ready to start an edit war. I have reverted their disruptive edits, and they have begun to add them back.
=={{user|Jbolden1517}} threatening per email.==
Jbolden has threatened per email to vandalise and/or troll wikipedia. He seemed ok before, so this is very unfortunate.
I've already removed him from the mediation cabal. There's not much more I can do. Be on the lookout for any unacceptable behaviour.
] 17:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


diffs: </nowiki>] </nowiki>] </nowiki>] </nowiki>]
: This is a lie. I made no such threat. I will be filling an RFC to address what's going on here but I think a rumor on IRC has gotten out of hand. ]<sup><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></sup> 17:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


I would have put this at AIV, but I have no clue how to edit source. ] (]) 23:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:And where can we see this email you speak of? ] 18:00, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


:{{not done}} - Not an admin - I hate to be that person but unfortunately you've not sufficiently warned them, They've only received one warning and their edits aren't gross vandalism so this would only be declined by an admin anyway, If they continue I'll report them to AIV, Thanks, –]<sup>]</sup> 23:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
To defy Kim is to commit a act of blasphmey. All hail Kim! '''ALL HAIL KIM!''' --] ] 22:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::Ah, I see. Thank you! This has been noted for the future. Thank you, again! ] (]) 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::You're welcome, Happy editing, Thanks, –]<sup>]</sup> 23:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


== ] mass-creating articles for non-notable or nonexistent places ==
: I have found JBolden's mediation help very useful in the past. I ask that you give him a second chance. ] 02:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = GDJackAttack1 has agreed to no further creation of the problematic articles. Extant ones being handled via usual channels. No further action needed here. ] ] 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


{{user|GDJackAttack1}} has been mass-creating stub articles for places such as insignificant residential subdivisions and other localities in Alabama and Maryland (]), islands in the Bahamas and Senegal (]), and other insignificant highways and airports around the world. None of these articles are sourced by anything that verifies notability, just databases and maps, which has resulted in at least one article being pointed out as a map misreading and therefore nonexistent community at ]. I can only speculate how many more of these places do not exist and if any of them are ]s.
:: His mediation skills aren't in question, his ability to handle power is. ] (]) 20:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


There are too many of these articles to send through AfD or PROD manually and there is really no point in draftifying them or converting the articles into redirects since we have little proof that these topics are notable or even exist at all. Their ] consists of nothing but notices of their articles being moved to the draftspace, AfD/PROD notices, and messages informing them to be more careful about article creation, yet they have seemingly ignored these messages and have persisted with spamming these stub articles for no clear reason. <span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#3366cc">]&nbsp;]&nbsp;]</span> 01:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I respect Kim Bruning as one of the few users left who manages to keep sane when all hell breaks loose, but I wonder quite how things are developing here. The last I was aware of the situation, the user in question was not quite able to grok the informal nature of the mediation cabal, and I (and several other users) suggested he go beat the mediation committee into shape. I saw no evidence to suggest he was a poor mediator at that time.


:I will stop creating these articles. ] (]) 01:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Now I see he's branded a troll and various other names under the sun, and I'm confused as to what snapped, and when. Let's all step back for a minute and remember that this is a person who's putting their patience and own sanity on the line to help resolve disputes with other users, and who now faces his peers, but is unable to proceed as would be logical for a bunch of mediators to do so. I don't want to accuse people of taking sides, but there's a hell of a lot of rapid throwing about of words here.
:I tagged one as '''CSD A7''' to see if that would work. ] ] 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{replyto|Bgsu98}} Thank you, I also considered PROD-ing them all but I noticed you have so already. <span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#3366cc">]&nbsp;]&nbsp;]</span> 02:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I think I got all of the ones that that Maryland batch, but I’m sure there are more. ] ] 02:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== User:Glenn103 ==
Let's look at this with a half-clear head. JBolden's interactions with other users sometimes leave a lot to be desired, but the same can be said of myself, a number of trusted users on Misplaced Pages, and even Kim himself. I'm quite convinced at this point that a lot of confusion from a lot of people is contributing to further confusion and a lot of needless upset.
{{userlinks|Glenn103}} has been mass creating unsourced stubs about Cyrillic letters, most of which have been draftified. They've also disruptively edited in the past, such as: <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 01:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:Most of these pages don't even make any sense (eg.: ]). The user also ignores any notice about his articles being moved to draftspace by simply recreating duplicates of them (eg.: ] & ]). Immediate action may be needed. ] (] <b>·</b> ]) 07:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I have blocked them from article space and page moves, and will leave note on talk page to come here. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 15:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, this almost feels like trolling. Their basic procedure seems to be: pick a random Cyrillic letter. Combine it with a random diacritic. Write a short stub on the combination, saying effectively "this letter combination is not used anywhere." The occasional historical mentions ("this combination was used in such-and-such obscure Siberian language") are completely unsourced, of course. (Everything is unsourced.) ] (]) 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


:Excuse me for detracting from the report, but this was your 4th edit, your last edit was in January 2016... how have you found yourself here of all places?
If the mediation cabal is so informal, then where did you obtain the book you now appear to be lobbing? ''']''' | ] 21:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:I mean you might have a point, but wow. &ndash; ] (]) (]) 04:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Similar behavior to {{checkuser|PickleMan500}} and other socks puppeted by {{checkuser|Abrown1019}}, which also made tons of drafts on Cyrillic characters that cited few sources (and none with in-depth coverage). Most drafts have been ]'d, of course, so only those with admin perms can verify the deleted contribs. <small>Since these socks have been banned (]), I haven't notified them of this discussion.</small> ] (] '''·''' ]) 17:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


==TPA for 83.106.86.95==
: Long story short, Jbolden slammed himself headlong into a wall. Sucks, I thought he was doing well up to that point. He was ok at mediation, he was less skilled as a (co-)coordinator.
{{atop|1=Done. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}
{{userlinks|83.106.86.95}}


Could someone revoke TPA for blocked IP, based on ? ] (]) 02:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
: I specifically delegated the mediation cabal so I have time to do other things. I kept having to pick up after jbolden-as-coordinator, and wasn't getting around to other things.


:Done and revdel'ed, thanks to JJMC89. ] (]) 02:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
: He refused to hand over to more competent people in any kind of nice way. I had no time for a lot of trouble. In the end I applied a PowerAnswer.
{{abot}}


== Can you please help? ==
: The mediation cabal is now in the hands of solid people, and there is even a measure of oversight over them. ] 21:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
] got moved from ] (because his middle name might not be John). But the talk page for this person is at ], and the talk page for the disambiguation page is at ]. I don't know what happened to the disambiguation page, and I don't know how to fix this. ] (]) 02:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}} Couldn't be moved because the target page had to be deleted; its now fixed. As a note for the future, ] would be a better place for this, since it isn't an 'incident'. That said - ''was'' there a dab page at ] before? - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks to everyone for resolving this. As to the place for this, at some point I was told that "if you're a new user you have no reason to post at ]" or something similar. I appreciate the help. ] (]) 05:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:(edit conflict) I think that the disambiguation page's revisions were merged into the history of the moved page, if I'm reading ] correctly.
:@], can you confirm what happened/fix this? &ndash; ] (]) (]) 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::Actually, WAS that the intention (merging the histories)? I have no idea how this works.
::Maybe The Bushranger already did all that needed to be done. &ndash; ] (]) (]) 02:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::(edited): There was a dab page with two entries. It is now a redirect from William Swainson to William John Swainson and the direction is now different. The full histories are (merged) restored and visible. PS: I have added a hat-note to the one other (far less notable) lawyer - ] - if there are many more entries to be dealt with then the (currently a redirect) page at ] could be reinstated/used. ] (]) 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::(nac) An intitle search turned up no other William Swainson, so I've tagged {{-r|William_Swainson_(disambiguation)}} (which has no significant history) for speedying under ]. ] (]) 06:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


== POVPushingTheTruth ==
== ]==
{{atop|1=The truth may set you free, but ] will get you blocked. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}
I wonder if someone could look into the behaviour of ] . I am particularly concerned about . I have been working with ] to attempt to get a factual verifiable article and this is the response I get from a POV warrior trying to wreck the verifiability of teh article. ] 20:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
] is clearly NOTHERE. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 05:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:Blocked. -- ] (])| <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added 05:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)</small><sup>]</sup>
{{abot}}


== North Korean involvement in Russian-Ukraine war discussion ==
: I've blocked him for a month - looking over his talk page and his contributions, this sort of abuse and harassment has been going on for far too long. --] (]) 21:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks.] 21:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I attempted to communicate rationally with the user, but Bazzajf seemed determined to continue to insult people despite the fact that the user has just been blocked for a month for it. I've not intention of letting Bazzajf continue to insult people, including myself. Usertalk page fully protected. --] <sup>]</sup> 21:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::::] is relevant here - IP ] (an Irish government address, apparently) seems to be only used by Bazzajf, and I suspect he'll pop up on his favourite articles again, so it may be necessary to block that too. --] (]) 22:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe that makes the connection quite clear - less the edit but the edit summary comment... As does the fact the anon has added stuff to ]'s user page.... If it was me I'd block both - indefinitely!!!!] 16:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:An indefinite block is uncalled for, although it's fairly obvious he's evading the block right now. Frankly, I thought a month was too much, too, but that's within reason. Bazzajf has shown a complete inability to remain civil, but I don't believe he's beyond help yet, and he does have some value to the encyclopedia. ] 17:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::I think we pussy-foot around far too much with people who are consistently and unrepentantly grossly offensive to others. I've blocked the IP address for a month too, since it only ever seems to have been used by him. This is his sixth or seventh block for edit warring or personal abuse (depending on whether you count the penultimate one) in the month he's been here. The last time he was blocked for personal attacks it was for a week, I don't see that a month is at all excessive as a further step. --] (]) 20:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, the IP address seems to be on a shared computer with several users, including one other registered Misplaced Pages user, so the address can't be blocked. --] (]) 14:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Reviewing the edits of ], created the day after I blocked Bazzajf, I'm convinced they are the same person. There's now a permanent block on Starsweep, and two months on Bazzajf and the IP address. --] (]) 08:19, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


The inclusion of North Korea as a belligerent in the infobox for the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" article has been a point of extensive and protracted discussion since September. A formal Request for Comment (RfC) on this matter ran for several weeks and was closed with a clear consensus to include North Korea as a combatant based on reliable sources and expert analysis. However, despite the closure, the discussion has continued unabated across multiple threads, with certain editors repeatedly rehashing resolved points and questioning the validity of reliable sources, leading to significant disruption.
==]==


'''Key Points:'''
Formal complaint about this User who, startlingly, is classified as an 'administrator'! He had for over 6 months attacked UK Tories in or associated with the ]. This is clearly politically motivated and he is currently nominating numerous of these Tories who have modest biographies for deletion. If such campaigns are OK on Misplaced Pages I think you should say on your opening page that articles deemed to be giving any merit whatsoever to traditional Tories will be deleted. ] 22:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


# '''Prolonged Discussions and RfC Closure:'''
: If we promise to spank him, would you like to watch? --] (]) 22:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
#* The RfC on North Korea's inclusion was conducted thoroughly, with a wide range of arguments presented by both sides.
#* The closing administrator, S Marshall, determined there was a clear consensus to include North Korea as a belligerent based on reliable sources and the strength of arguments.
#* The close explicitly allowed for reevaluation if new battlefield events or sources emerged, but no substantial new evidence has invalidated the prior consensus.
# '''Ongoing Disruption:'''
#* Despite the RfC's resolution, the same arguments are being repeated across multiple threads, often by the same editors.
#* This behavior includes undermining reliable sources, misrepresenting their content, and insisting on a higher standard of verification (e.g., requiring firsthand evidence of North Korean combat, which is unreasonable given the context).
# '''Reliable Sources Confirming North Korean Involvement:'''
#* Multiple reputable outlets, including the BBC, Reuters, and Pentagon statements, confirm North Korean military involvement and casualties in the conflict.
#* Experts from institutions like Chatham House and RUSI have explicitly stated North Korea's role in combat, aligning with the community's decision.
# '''Impact on the Community:'''
#* The continued disruption consumes editor time and resources, detracting from the article's improvement.
#* These actions disregard Misplaced Pages's consensus-building principles and guidelines for resolving disputes. This dispute has been ongoing for months, with multiple threads being opened and closed on the same topic.


'''Request for Administrative Action:'''
::] has used AOL IPs to vandalize my original talk page in the past. Why isn't he banned? Why do trolls, vandals and malactors receive so much respect? Do i have to assume that RickK is right about Misplaced Pages? ] 22:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::WiC?--] 02:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::"JohnHeph" is, of course, Johnny the Vandal, and has been permablocked. ]|] 02:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


I respectfully request that administrators address the following issues:
*Not that this has anythign to do with ], of course. ] 22:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
**Perish the thought. ] | ] 22:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC).


# Enforce the consensus reached in the closed RfC, as no new evidence significantly alters the previous conclusions.
Not funny, really, just a bit sad. ] 19:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
# Discourage editors from rehashing resolved discussions, particularly when arguments have been repeatedly addressed and dismissed.
# Consider imposing a topic ban or other appropriate measures on editors who persist in disrupting the article with repetitive or bad-faith arguments.


This matter has been discussed exhaustively, and it is essential to prioritize Misplaced Pages's goals of maintaining a high-quality, well-sourced, and consensus-driven encyclopedia.
== Insane accusations surrounding ] ==
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Will some disinterested parties ''please'' review the discussions taking place at ] and ] ? A fellow Misplaced Pages administrator has stopped short of accusing me of contributing to an article "designed to attack and harrass its subject". For the record, the subject of this article disclosed their name publicly on NPR over 8 months ago. Thanks in advance, ] 01:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: I just noticed that North Korea was removed as a belligerent and added to the 'supported by' section, completely violating the consensus.
:I second this request, although not in the same language. I also want to know if a {{lt|Test2a}} left on a user page for the removal of an {{lt|AfD}} from an article under AfD constitutes a ]. I also invite to review and ] and my contribution to comment whether any of the accusations against me are warranted. Thank you. ~ ] 03:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
] (]) 08:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:Since this report isn't really about an incident and your request is directed towards admins, I think this complaint would be better placed at ] rather than ANI. It will also need more specifics, which articles, which edits, which editors. You'll need to provide that. I also question whether or not these are content standards that the community can't handle on their own. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::I was going to post it at ] but it said: "'''This noticeboard is for issues affecting administrators generally – announcements, notifications, information, and other matters of''' ''general administrator interest.''
::If your post is about a '''specific problem you have''' (a '''dispute''', user, help request, or other narrow issue needing an administrator), you should post it at the ''']''' (ANI) instead. Thank you."
::I posted it on ANI beecause my specific problem was this dispute ] (]) 12:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::The original post in this thread appears to resemble LLM output. GPTzero confirms this impression, rating text as "99% probability AI generated". Using AI to generate ANI submissions is highly inappropriate. ] (]) 18:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Even when a message appears to be AI-generated, I think it is worth considering whether or not it is pointing out an actual problem. I think editors might be ignoring the results of an RFC, I just don't think asking for administrators to monitor a subject area, without identifying specific articles, is a feasible solution. It does seem like, possibly, a point that could come up in a complaint at AE regarding the Ukraine CTOP area. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I had a peek and it's a messy RfC and, as is generally the case with a messy RfC had a very involved closure message which seems to reflect that the closer felt constrained by the framing of the RfC. I didn't see any immediate indication in the edit history that anyone had tried to implement the RfC result and been rebuffed (although I might have missed it). So there's some smoke here but, I think, not a ton of fire. ] (]) 20:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Liz, I don't disagree but I'm not at all convinced that use of AI is a positive contribution to CTOP areas. ] (]) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::It was written with AI assistance. Not all AI. ai detectors aren’t considered reliable, because you can put the U.S. constitution through one and it says 100% AI generated. Regardless, whether it’s AI or not has nothing to do with the topic. It’s just that there’a been so many discussions and when I checked the info box it said ‘supported by”, violating the consensus of the RFC ] (]) 12:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I think the underlying issue here is that if you use AI to generate text which looks like obvious AI output then readers will wonder "does the end user even have sufficient English to understand what the AI has generated for them?" and "did the end user understand the material prior to deciding to employ AI?". Thus if a user is fluent in English, as you obviously are, it will always be better to communicate in your own voice.
:::::::At the end of the day, a user making a valid point in their own voice is generally speaking going to be taken more seriously than a user employing LLM output.
:::::::There are plenty of other reasons for users not to employ AI (see the recent thread here for extensive coverage) but the argument above seems like a good practical reason for fluent English speakers to always prefer using their own voice.
:::::::You will see from the recent thread that many users here are vehemently against AI use. ] (]) 15:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I understood the material very well, its not like I just used 100% AI out of nowhere. I know the context. I have been involved in this discussion since September. ] (]) 16:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a respect thing. It's disrespectful of other editors to make them read chatbot output rather than ''your'' words. ] (]) 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


== Dispute Over Edits and Use of British Raj Sources ==
Comments such as are exactly what I'm talking about. ] 20:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{Atop|Content dispute.--] (]) 15:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)}}


Hello,
:Policy is policy. You guys want to include information that the subject of the article considers harmful to him - info that is related to his (non-notable) real-life career, not his (possibly notable) blogging career. ] says "do no harm"...and yet, Silensor et al. insist on including the information. The page was established as an attack page initially. It did it's job - he quit blogging because his identity became widely known (via the Misplaced Pages article). There's a campaign to include information about his his clients and the law firm he works for. The subject of the article considers it a threat to his job. I have no idea why certain editors are so hellbent on including that information. Either it's just raw abuse of power, or a concerted attempt to hurt the guy. And they seem to think that it's "insane" to expect them to adhere to Misplaced Pages policy. Very interesting. ] 05:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


I’m seeking administrator input regarding a dispute with @] over the content in the the "]" article. The editor removed significant content, citing ] as justification. Here are my concerns:
===Rhadamanthus emerges from Hades for a brief moment===
Folks, an AfD nomination is not part of evidence. This is very important. If a well established article is nominated, it's going to pass. We must never block and ''never'' make listing AfD's as part of evidence. The fellow in question is definitely abusive and inappropriate, but when you're blocking someone you can't take their response as evidence, either. If we start demanding that the people we block be nice in return, we're essentially asking people to apologize. We are not in power here. Administrators are ''not in charge.'' Administrators are the executive of policy, so we don't get to demand that nasty users apologize. Is HE worth blocking? Sure. Is he disruptive? Sure. I agree with moving to a second week's block, as the user is still fighting, but then go to ArbCom. Seriously. The insulted getting revenge with blocks just leads to more and it justifies every user who claims that "administrators" are the problem. ] 13:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:"The insulted getting revenge with blocks just leads to more and it justifies every user who claims that 'administrators' are the problem." You are reading into my motives. I really don't appreciate that. I did the 1 week block BEFORE he called me a moron. I didn't do the indefinite block. Nor would I have. I'm ok with a 1 week block or an indefinite block. But assuming that I did this out of some personal vandetta is uncalled for. --]<sup>]</sup> 14:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::'''Then use ArbCom.''' Once you begin renewing a block because he's personally unpleasant to you, you're involved in the conflict, and it is inappropriate to up the blocks. As for your motives, I'm telling you how it will assuredly look to others. Use ArbCom or hand off. It's simple, and the only reason not to do so is passion, and passion is the reason you must. ] 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


'''1. Misapplication of Policy''':
], ]. --] ] 14:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Sitush’s essays are not official Misplaced Pages policy. Content decisions should follow ], ], and ].
::Not sure who you are referring to. :) Geogre isn't new. Neither am I. And actually, neither is His excellency. He has been posting under that name and another name going back to January. --]<sup>]</sup> 15:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
*Geogre, that's nonsense. Nominating articles spuriously for AfD, when one should know better, is certainly disruptive, and just like any other act, it's something that can be used to suggest a block should occur. Responding inappropriately is similarly unacceptable. He merits a long block, and I don't think an indefinite block would be out of place. I understand there are people who have issues with authority who are out digging for things to be upset about them, but we shouldn't be afraid to do what's right for the encyclopedia just to keep such people happy. --] 14:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
***Nominating spuriously for an AfD can be part of a general pattern, but one when presented in evidence at ArbCom. However, I take a very strong line on this: an AfD nomination is not evidence by itself of disruption. First, it doesn't disrupt anything, as the AfD will go away automatically. Second, "spurious" is way too open to interpretation. I've seen many people want to hang people for nominating for deletion, especially during the moronic "all schools must be kept, no matter the content of the article, and all who nominate schools for deletion are trolls who should be blocked." Secondly, though, an inappropriate response is just nastiness. This user is nasty, but an indefinite block? No. That's ArbCom territory. Personal attacks being justification? '''Absolutely not.''' Finally, having the offended hand out the block is simply not done. This is not according to our procedures in any way. The advantages to handing off the block are numerous. The disadvantage is one: you don't get revenge. The long history of this user makes for a compelling ArbCom case, but not solo action. There is no divine right of admins. Insulting someone else vs. one of us is alike a hand-off to someone else for handling. ] 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
****I don't think admins have divine right, nor do I think that insulting them is any more meaningful than anyone else. However, AfD for a topic that is completely within the bounds of an encyclopedia and clearly must be covered (unlike schools, which are contentious), purely for the reason that he does not like the content, is problem behaviour. The AfD was for the wrong reason, and was indeed spurious and a misuse of process. I think maybe the reasoning for an indefinite block would be a bit loose though (at least, provided the user has positive edits -- I have not checked), thanks to this discussion. Arbcom cases are generally reserved for when there is significant contention over a user's behaviour, or when the user has a long (and at least partly positive) history with the project. Admins should act, so much as possible, act as if they had no ego, thinking only of the good of the project. If Woohookitty was one of those insulted, then it probably would've been better if (s?)he had asked someone else to review the situation, blocking as appropriate. It is, however, inappropriate to assume that everytime admins make a judgement call, they must be on a power trip. --] 17:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
***Improv, you and I are ''generally'' in agreement, but I think that ArbCom is the proper court for very long blocks and hard bans. Short of that, we're being fickle and personal. If the argument is that ArbCom is slow and creaky, then we need to find a way to speed it, but if we unilaterally act and impose anything more than a week, we're turning Misplaced Pages into "I think you're bad." Because I don't trust any one, I trust everyone. I am often wrong, and so are you, but together we will be wrong much less of the time. This particular user is despicable, in my opinion. I think he probably is now irredeemable. However, I don't want any one of us making that call, as it should ''require'' many of us together to make it. If it isn't via ArbCom, it has to be via something beyond the individual administrator. I agree that admins have to act within their judgment in the interest of the project, but that judgment ought to be "Wow, this person needs to be examined by the community so that the community can speak." Traditionally, that has been via RFaR. If ArbCom is broken, we need a new fix, but when water flows around an obstruction in the stream, the result isn't always the ''best'' one. ] 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
**Wish I hadn't blocked him in the first place. Didn't want or expect a brouhaha. --]<sup>]</sup> 14:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
***I think most of all it's the indefinite (which should be rare, handed out by ArbCom, and done ''after'' consensus, not before) and then the reasoning -- that he was nasty. NPA is not policy, and blocking for it should never short circuit all our rules, as it makes admins the lords and masters of the personalities on Misplaced Pages. We don't get to do that. ] 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
****Wrong on all counts. Admins ''do'' have the power to block people indefinitely, and they do so every day. If every single disruptive editor went before the ArbCom, we would need perhaps ten times as many arbitrators as we have now. ] is a ''policy'', not a guideline; it's unbelievable that you, Geogre, keep claiming that it's a guideline even after it was demonstrated to you during the discussion of the previous indefinite block of His excellency that it was a policy. His excellency seems to have concluded from his previous indefinite block by Tom Harrison and the subsequent unblock by Bishonen that he has a blank check to do what he pleases; this case will only reinforce his conviction. ] <sup>]</sup> 17:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
**You are misreading a vast amount. It is not a policy in blocking. Read it again. Its policy force is, "It is our policy not to insult people." If indefinite blocks are going on every day, and if they're going on for personal attacks, then every one of those is out of process. In fact, if you read carefully, you'll see that they are ''not'' handed out individually for insults, and people are broadening, inappropriately, the "community patience" blocks. ] 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


'''2. Dismissal of Reliable Sources''':
George, NPA is indeed policy. If you don't think it should be, maybe you should try to change it. Woohookitty blocked for a week, which you seem to agree (now) is appropriate. Jeffrey O. Gustafson extended the block to indefinite. Woohookitty took it back to one week. So in a week he can come back. I think an indefinite block is appropriate; that's what I gave him before. Based on past experience, when he comes back he'll spew more vitriol. ] <sup>]</sup> 17:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:I tend to agree with Tom. I don't have a problem with a week but on the other hand, I don't have alot of confidence that this user is going to stop doing what he was doing. It's not about assuming good faith. I think when you have a user who has been blocked 8 times, it shows a certain inability to change. --]<sup>]</sup> 05:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:I have no objection to a week. I agree that he's awful, and I think that he should be RFaR'd. What I don't agree with it indefinite blocking for insulting language. NPA is a policy that says it is our policy not to attack. Note that there are no sanctions there. Note also that the proper course of action specified is the ''removal of the insult to an archived location'' with a placeholder saying where it went. Not blocking forever. I think this user should be gone, but not by unilateral action. It should be a slam dunk, fast ArbCom case, if ArbCom is meeting quickly. ] 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is my take... nobody is claiming that a single AfD in and of itself is disruption. But in combination with all his other disruption, and his clearly bad-faith misreading of AfD policy, it's a large strike against him. And as of yet I've seen only marginal evidence that H.E. is attempting to make productive edits. Within the past week to ] alone he has blanked material against consensus , quote-dumped against ] policy (with no references to boot) , added material using blatantly unreliable sources , and repeatedly re-restored examples of such after being reverted and chastised by other editors. Is he capable of contributing? Who knows. Combined with his dozens of personal attacks, racist statements, etc., I would say he's clearly exhausted the community's patience. But if the indefinite is not going to stick, then I'm all for sending this to ArbComm. Somebody want to write it up? - ] 18:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:That's all I've been saying. I even think that you're right that this AfD was not the action, but rather the continuation of an action, that is evidentiary. However, I don't want any hint of a rumor of a whisper of a precedent set for blocking anyone for making an AfD, no matter how absurd or peevish it is. AfD doesn't hurt anything unless every voter there is asleep or crazy. ] 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::Well doing what he did is disruptive. And I am sure that at some point, someone has been blocked for a disruptive AfD. --]<sup>]</sup> 15:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


The removed content was based on ]-era sources, which are neutral and historically significant. The editor claims these are unreliable without specific evidence or discussion on the article’s talk page.
== ] ==
{{user|CB Brooklyn}} has been using unnecessarily nasty edit summaries , , and when I asked him to make sure quoted items he placed into the article ] are referenced, he removes my posts from his talk page stating, , and my favorite so far, . CB Brooklyn was recently blocked for 3RR on the same article. . Would someone please ask him to be more polite in his edit summaries. Thanks.--] 08:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:I'll take care of it. -- ] 08:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:In my view, the user has already been amply warned about personal attacks. I gave him a reminder of NPA, CIVIL, and to not removed talk page comments, along with brief block (12 hours), and told him that blocks would increase rapidly if he made further blatant personal attacks. There's no excuse for name-calling of this sort. -- ] 08:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::It should be noted that while CB Brooklyn's behaviour is clearly improper... MONGO himself has been calling Brooklyn and others . If there is "no excuse for name-calling of this sort", which I agree with, then being an admin should not be a free pass to antagonize people and then say, 'look what ''he'' did', if they respond in kind. Admins are supposed to behave better than the average user, not worse. --] 10:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks, your insults just keep piling up. I want you to demostrate in that edit you linked how I called Brooklyn a moron or a troll. It was a non directive comment...maybe I meant you...maybe I meant someone else, who knows. Point is, I can see no comparison to the edit you linked with the one in which Brooklyn reverts polite messages I post on his talk page and uses the edit summary of "delete garbage written by sick fuck".--] 13:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::You request 'demonstration' of a connection you cannot see. Very well. Cyde questioned your blocks of people you were in a content dispute with . You responded by arguing that your blocks were justified because those people were "trolls", "POV pushing morons", "conspiracy theorists", and "nitwits" who were "vandalizing" and posting "crap" -> . You used those terms to describe the people you blocked... namely (per your log of blocks) Pokipsy76, SkeenaR, and CB Brooklyn. Not me or "who knows". Those three people. Can you see it now? --] 14:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, we can break that down if we want to take up the rest of the noticeboard. ''I'' was conversing with ''cyde''....''Brooklyn'' was responding to ''me''. Indirect-direct. If you think my actions so egregious, then why not block me...you seem to relish wheel warring, which is pretty much a big no-no as far as some lofty powers here think...but that didn't stop you, no, you're exempt! Special!--] 14:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Guys, calm down. The fact is, MONGO came here instead of unilaterally blocking CB Brooklyn. Let's not used this demonstration of ''responsibility'' on MONGO's part as an opportunity to criticize him. It's a bit odd, frankly, that a side conversation about a completely uninvolved editor is being brought into this discussion. ]]] ] 15:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:I agree strongly with JD. MONGO was asked not to impliment even obvious blocks against these users. Instead of using his tools in this instance, he did EXACTLY what he was told to do by his RFC - he was told to come here and present his case. He did. As such, he deserves praise for his appropriately changed behavior, not CBD going back to edits from just after the RFC was filed. If you, CBD, had wanted to block him for his edit on the 26th, you would have. ] - ] 21:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::Coming here to ANI is what many in the RFC are asking of MONGO. {{user|CB_Brooklyn}} is clearly violating ] and ], and a block by a third-party admin is justified here. -] (<small>] ]</small>) 21:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


'''3. Unilateral Edits and Dismissive Behavior''':
::Yes, the block was justified. Yes, it is good that MONGO got someone else to do it. No, MONGO calling CB Brooklyn 'troll', 'conspiracy theorist', and 'moron' and then calling for a block and misrepresenting the history when CB Brooklyn responded in kind does not "deserve praise". --] 21:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::CBD, your harassment is getting tiresome.--] 22:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Maybe MONGO could use more polite words ("moron" is inappropriate). But, take a look at ]. -] (<small>] ]</small>) 21:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Despite my attempts to discuss the matter constructively, the editor dismissed my concerns as "]" and warned me about sanctions under ] and ], discouraging collaboration.]
Without commenting on this specifically, if we could as admins, all begin to ''demonstrate'' civil behavior it would be easier for us to ''enforce'' civil behavior. Any time we use words like "troll" or "idiot" we're mostly doing so out of laziness. It's simply not helpful, is not required, and almost always results in pointless discussion. Use polite and precise language wherever possible, things will go smoother.,<br/> ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 01:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


'''Evidence''':
:For whatever my opinion as a non-admin is worth, everybody who has posted in this section has made a valid point. It probably deserves bearing in mind that everyone here has been engaged in a necessary, but very unpleasant excercise over the last couple of days. Therefore it is only natural that not everyone behaves the way they would like themselves to. I agree with the block, and I agree with Mongo referring it first. I also agree that comments on the block should not be made in the same nature as the reason for the block in the first place. In Mongo's defense, it would be hard for me not to be upset if edit summaries such the ones mentioned were directed at me. I'm taking an interest here because I would like it if we could edit articles without having to fight each other all the time. In my opinion, the articles would improve a lot better and faster if we didn't have to spend so much energy on conflict or resolution. I know that there are real issues involved in what should legitimately be included in the 9/11 articles, which naturally make for disagreements to arise, but please let's not try to be provocative with each other about it. I say that to all parties involved. I like to try and improve articles with whatever I might be able to contribute. I find it fun, educating, and challenging, but this kind of stuff makes it a lot harder for all of us when we spend our time on fisticuffs and what not instead of some nice writing or research or even just sharing some good information with each other. ] 06:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::I have no problem with a little name calling as I do on occasion have a sense of humor, and CB Brooklyns edit summaries are less offensive than some I have seen. I am familiar with his other posts from elsewhere, and they show a similar temperment, but saw no reason to drag all that out...I wasn't even asking for a block if he would abstain from this manner of conversation, so all I was doing was requesting a neutral third party to step in, since his responses to my requests were simply becoming worse, not better. I do agree with the block, however. I also agree that all of us involved in the disagreements on the 9/11 articles, myself included, could tone things down a lot. Thanks.--] 07:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


That's awesome, I just hope I'm not being naive in thinking that things are improving. Thanks for considering what I had to say. ] 07:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


== User: F 22 - Users who exhaust the community's patience - well mine anyway ==


OK - I know I can look elsewhere but the puerile activities of {{user|F 22}} are mostly pointless and breach ]. Do we do anything with such users or do we just ignore? Suspect this does not quite fit within ]--]\<sup>]</sup> 10:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


]
:Userpage looks perfectly acceptable to me. ] 15:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
*That's because I cleaned it. Of course, I wouldn't expect GNAA folk such as yourself to care much about keeping an appropriate userpage anyhow. --] 15:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:Hmph, was that a personal attack? I am not amused. ] 15:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::That ''was'' a personal attack, and a totally unwarrented one. Had the above exchange not taken place, I'd have looked at the user page and thought the objection was to the mass of boxen. I don't think that in enought to exhaust our patience. He's made very few article edits, but so what? They've been useful edits. Someone is already having a nice chat with him on his user page, so why does this need to come to ANI? - ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 01:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::GNAA Folk, as Lapinmies is just another in a long list of those who have or had a presence on Misplaced Pages, have a habit of intentionally inflammatory and bizarre userpages that have frequently shown, at the very least, a lack of interest in harmonious participation in the project. This is a matter of fact, holding from the various incarnations of SPUI (an otherwise good editor in modern times who, apart from some current disputes, does not push things *too* far) to GNAA Timecop and the various other now permabanned members of the club. I find the attitude unfortunate, but we should not shy from speaking the truth out of being politic. I don't think my statement above should be construed as an attack. --] 05:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Sorry, but I am not a member. My userpage is satire. ] 07:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Unless we have particular ''edits'' that are problematic, it's bad form to make judgements based upon identity. To use someone's identarian characteristics pejoratively is a personal attack. That seems pretty straight forward to me.<br/>]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 14:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::When an identity has as its primary goal to make trouble, I think it's wholly appropriate. I am unapologetic. --] 22:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


*Just to clarify, I came upon the user because of problematic edits, perhaps not quite enough to warrant any action, other than a warning, which I gave, but ... and then you look at the sum of his other contributions, his user page, and I wondered, how do we manage? what should I do? - which is why I came here, for guidance.--]\<sup>]</sup> 22:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
*I have blocked the user for two days for continuing to maintain inappropriate content on their userpage. --] 14:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


'''Request for Administrative Action''':
== Blocked ] ==


1. Review the removed content and the editor’s justification.
Could an admin please investigate ] and ] who I suspect are sockpuppets of banned user ]. This editor, like the banned user, is making petty edits to Irish related articles and making claims that other editors are "''censoring''", "''revisionists''" and "''vandalising''" them - the many of hallmarks of the banned user. Please investigate. ] 20:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


2. Ensure that disputes are discussed on the article’s talk page.
:I don't know if someone has turned out the lights but two recent samples of this editors work ,(classic RMS nonsense); whilst this escapade proves they are one-in-the same. Some one please investigate and bring closure. ] 22:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
*{{vandal|MaryLouise@gmail.com}} is still doing bad-faith edits on various articles. Can an admin block please? ] 19:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


3. Address the editor’s dismissive tone to foster collaboration.
Looking at the non-intervention by administrators on this user one can only conclude that their is severe inaction in wikipedia regarding vandalism. ] 19:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:You should take sock puppet investigations to ]! <font color="#007FFF">]</font>''']'''<font color="#007FFF">]</font>|<sup><font color="orange">]</font></sup> 20:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:I blocked {{user|MaryLouise@gmail.com}} for disruption i.e various scu, paedophile, wanker edits. Suggest listing them at checkuser page. ] 20:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:and {{user|AbdulRahim@gmail.com}} for good measure as blatant sock of MaryLousie@gmail.com ] 20:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
*] was already listed at RFCU: ]. Result was "possible". Since then, they made , effectively confirming their real identity as Robert Sieger/Rms125a@hotmail.com. ] 00:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


4. Prevent further disruptive edits/vandalism by IP editors (which hasn't happened yet) And from Autoconfirmed users(e.g. @GrilledSeatJet , -) and even from Extended Autoconfirmed users(@]) by banning such editors and putting an extended protection on the Article which I have once put request ] for but it got denied and now the results are as follows.
== Personal Attacks, pt 2 ==


Thank you for your time and attention. I’m happy to provide further information if needed.
Recently, ] accused me of a ]. I thought I'd point out this posting by JzG that I think demonstrates that the hostility goes both ways. I had called JzG closed-minded and trigger happy (which I regret), but is calling me "obsessive" any better? Not that this in any way excuses my actions, but I just wanted to point out that there have been transgressions on both sides of this debate. ] 04:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
----Best Regards


--- ] (]) 10:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:I wouldn't exactly call JzG's comments a personal attack, but I do agree the comment could have been toned down. ]]] 05:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{Abot}}


== Nothing to say about me really bot ==
::I would also call them fifteen days old. Even the dispute in question was archived. I'm not clear why this is being brought up now. I understand wanting to defend your reputation in the Wikisphere, but slinging more mud after the discussion has essentially ended won't help you with that. I'd respectfully suggest it's time to try to put this behind you. ]]] ] 05:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = Locked {{nac}}. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 13:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


*{{vandal|WilhelminaBlosse}}
:::I didn't bring it up before because I didn't see it until today; JzG it just 30 minutes later. I only found out about it because of this by ], which links to the archive page containing the attack (also linked , with the quote). And, why is reporting this considered "slinging mud"? I just don't understand it: JzG reports an attack here, I get a stern warning. ''I'' report an attack, and ''I'm'' accused of mudslinging. Why is that? Isn't this where you're ''supposed'' to report stuff like this? ] 05:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Please delete the user page, block the bot and report to stewards for a global block, as per ]. Thank you! ] (]) 11:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Because the quotation was from over two weeks ago and the discussion here ended three days ago. There's a time factor here. The point of this board is to spot ongoing incidents so that they can be dealt with and the project of writing an encyclopedia can commence. If JzG posted a fifteen-day-old link to you saying you were going to ], I'd probably wonder why he was bringing up an old issue. Hypothetically, if in the future he says not-nice things to you, I'd suggest you ask him about it on his talk page, and if he is still rude to you, then at that point, bringing it here would be more warranted. My apologies for using the term "mudslinging"; it was poorly chosen. Again, my comments are about the timing, and not the content, of your grievance here. ]]] ] 06:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}
*General question for those on ANI regarding this type of a report. Is ] only meant for "active" cases of personal attacking or does this type of a report fall under its auspices as well? ] 07:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


== Anon + Persians == == Concern About a New Contributor ==
{{userlinks|Kriji Sehamati}}


Dear Wikipedians,
has been systematically changing Persian to something else. I don't know what is right on all of these issues but on Rumi, at least, it does go against what has been in the article without discussion. I almost blocked the user but... I figured I'd place it here. If another admin wants to deal with it, good. Or, I deal with it later if someone adds onto my talk page... but, is a ban in order? and should they all be reverted? ] ] 04:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


I hope you’re doing well. I wanted to inform you about a new contributor @], despite lacking experience, has repeatedly attempted to vandalize multiple articles. These articles were properly aligned with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and reviewed by experienced contributors, but he/she seemed unwilling to understand or respect their adherence to the policies.
: How easy it has to claim that somebody "has been '''systematically''' changing Persian to something else". Please check my contribution history. I've edited the articles which the above editor/admin considers as Persian only once. The above post also reflects the obsession of some editors to label or insert Persian into as many articles as possible , , which is quite problematic, especially when one edits articles with such nationalistic views that creates biases. ] 10:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


I believe your experience could help address this situation effectively.
==Proven sock of banned editor==
{{vandal|Thunderbird15}} has been ] by RFCU to be a sock of the blocked ] (see ] on ]) who is ] by ArbCom. Could we please have Thunderbird15 blocked?


Looking forward to your advice on how to proceed.
Thank you. ] 08:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
*'''Done'''. Why can't they be immediately blocked by whoever confirms the connection? - ]|] 12:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
**According to the various discussions I've seen, the RFCU privileged users have no time to go around taking action, it's up to the requester to get the necessary action taken. ] 12:36, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The important thing is that he gets blocked. Thanks again :) ] 12:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Thankyou! ]] 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
== Deleting libellous revisions ==


:"Vandalize" is a very loaded word here with a specific meaning. As far as I can tell, what they've done is nominate 4 articles for deletion, and your has been to accuse them of vandalism, ignoring dispute resolution procedures and making personal attacks – none of which I can see at a glance through their contributions.
What is the correct procedure for requesting deletion of libellous revisions? There are some unsubstatiated comments in ] which led an anon IP to tag the whole article for speedy deletion. That's obviously not necessary here, so I removed the db tag, but I don't quite know how to get the few revisions deleted. Cheers --] 11:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:Perhaps if you supplied ] of this behaviour, someone would be able to help? If your issue is that they've nominated 4 articles of which you are a major contributor ''and'' are doing so by going through your contributions in order to find articles to nominate for deletion with specious reasons, then this board would be the place to come. If not, then making your arguments for keeping the articles on the AfDs in question would be your best bet.
*Well, an admin can delete the lot of it and then only restore the non-libellous edits. Can you provide diffs to said problem edits? - ]|] 12:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
** Sure: . Cheers --] 12:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC) :By the way is forum shopping. Stop that. ] (]) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:(ec) This is an odd one. As S-Aura failed to provide diffs, I looked at Kriji Sehamati's contribution history. New account (9 Dec) began editing today, created two drafts and made a bunch of edits to those. Then began adding COI tags to articles S-Aura wrote, nominated those articles for deletion, and then left a template on S-Aura's talk page. Really seems to be something weird going on here between those two. (In addition to opening this ANI thread, S-Aura asked for help with basically the same message on the talk pages of Ipigott, Ryan shell, CFA, and BusterD, and S-Aura opened same complaint at AN.) ]&nbsp;] 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
***Done. ] 12:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::I am concerned that ]’s actions, including unjustified deletion nominations and spamming, are disruptive and violate Misplaced Pages’s guidelines.
**** One more that I missed originally: . Apologies for making people do this twice. Cheers --] 14:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::She seems to lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related ] and ]. ]] 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to alert us. --]] 06:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::You were asked to provide diffs. You did, almost, but then reverted yourself. Those diffs (well, the ones before those diffs) are just the other user nominating articles for deletion (which is allowed) or tagging them for what they believe to be conflict of interest edits (which is also allowed).
:::Please provide some actual evidence that the other user is engaging in chronic, intractable behaviour, rather than just not editing how you would like them to. ] (]) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Here are some diffs highlighting her problematic edits. However, I believe that many of her contributions may be in violation of Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. It appears she has specifically targeted me and added the COI tag multiple times to the same page. I would appreciate it if you could review her actions more thoroughly:
:::: •
:::: •
:::: •
:::: •
::::and many more
::::Thankyou! ]] 17:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::We wouldn't generally treat an AfD as vandalism. ] (]) 17:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I understand your point about AfDs not generally being treated as vandalism. However, I noticed that the major contribution history of the user seems suspicious. ]] 17:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Not from where anybody else is standing so far. I get that you're upset to have four articles of yours nominated for deletion, and if you have any evidence ''at all'' that you are being deliberately targeted by the other editor, then people will very much act on that. Please provide it. ] (]) 17:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I am here to contribute and edit articles in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. However, today a new user targeted me and falsely blamed me for actions that are not accurate. I believe this is unfair and not in line with the collaborative nature of the platform. ]] 18:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Please provide evidence of this. ] (]) 18:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Please check! ]] 18:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::The articles that have been nominated for deletion discussion have been reviewed by experienced contributors. These discussions involve articles about judges and lawyers, under ], a valid criterion according to Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. Therefore, the deletion decision was made after carefully reviewing these articles. ]] 18:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Honestly it looks like this user, rightly or wrongly, believes you have a conflict of interest and are acting on the basis of that assumption. I would suggest, if you don't have a CoI, talking to them about this and maybe asking why they've come to this conclusion. ] (]) 18:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::They have just started targeting my contributions, and I tried to inform her about the situation. However, she is acting as if she knows everything about Misplaced Pages and is dismissing my concerns. ]] 18:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
:{{ping|Kriji Sehamati}} hasn't edited since their AfD spree earlier today, let's wait and see what their response here is when they return to editing. ]&nbsp;] 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*We need to stop focusing on the OP's calling this vandalism; it is not. I've changed the header to reflect that. That said, the new user's edits ''are'' problematic and merit scrutiny. As for the UPE stuff, I've removed that post from the OP's Talk page; it's nonsensical coming from a new user and does not merit a response.--] (]) 18:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*It is, of course, not vandalism to nominate articles for AFD discussions as long as a legitimate deletion rationale is provided and the article hasn't just been discussed at a recent AFD. However, I don't think it's a good sign when a brand new editor claims to understand all of Misplaced Pages policies and whose first actions are to nominate articles at AFDs. They are almost never an actual new editor, especially when they know how to even set up an AFD or are familiar with using Twinkle on their first day of editing. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*:It seems that she is not new to Misplaced Pages and might be operating multiple accounts. It appears she has an issue with one of my contributions, as she created her account just 15 days ago, yet she already has a good understanding of tools like Twinkle and AfD procedures. This level of familiarity suggests prior experience on the platform. I am now requesting her account to be blocked as I am completely disturbed by her repeated allegations and disruptive behavior. ]] 11:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I am now genuinely confused—if all my contributions are not good, then why am I even here? Were the experienced editors who reviewed and approved these pages also mistaken? A newcomer, who joined just recently, is now disrupting and questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors. This situation is deeply discouraging. ]] 11:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::Please resolve this situation—either block her for her disruptive behavior. How can i continue working under such constant targeting and stress ? ]] 12:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::User:S-Aura, you seem to be making unsupported personal attacks against ]. You should provide specific evidence of wrongdoing, including diffs, or your arguments here will fall on deaf ears (and bring consequences for you). Meanwhile, as a filer on ANI, you have brought all your own edits to close scrutiny by the community. You may have to face that smart people disagree, and this is how we sort disagreements out on English Misplaced Pages. You are not required to edit, but we encourage you to do so. Nobody is going to block Kriji Sehamati at this point, because you've given us no reason to do so. ] (]) 12:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::Meanwhile, in the last few minutes S-Aura has disruptively about this exact issue on this same board, which by another editor. This is intentional disruption. ] (]) 12:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::As to the question "Why am I here?", poets and artists have been trying to answer this question for eons. Epistemology is outside the scope of this board, but there are articles about it. Show up to edit if you want to, but expect disagreement from time to time. (That's actually a sound answer to any epistemology question as well.) ] (]) 12:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::Dear @],
*:::::It means I have been proven wrong, and that user’s contributions have been more focused on me, which is quite insufficient to catch someone’s lie that she is pretending to be new, when in fact she is old.
*:::::Also, I am not against AfD; I am simply expressing my opinion. ]] 13:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::Could you please rephrase your point here? I don't understand. While it's okay to be suspicious that this editor is somehow socking or doing something else deceptive due to the familiarity, it seems unacceptable to deliberately accuse them of such repeatedly without firmer evidence. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::::Dear @],
*:::::::I am not engaged in paid activities on Misplaced Pages, and she claimed that I am connected with the subject, who is a judge, lawyer, etc. You all should understand that this is not a trivial matter; justice is a very respected position. Making such allegations can escalate court cases. I would like to remind you of the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI case. ]] 13:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::One thing you need to understand immediately is you should never make another post that sounds vaguely like a legal threat, as you've just done above. ] That intonation is seriously not helping us decide who's right or wrong here. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::::::Okay! ]] 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::I will caution you that this is tiptoeing right up to the edge of ] and you'd be advised to avoid making legal threats. ] (]) 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::::::Dear @],
*:::::::::I am merely showing that she can potentially do something inappropriate. I am following the guidelines and not making any legal threats. ]] 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::::Accusing another editor of potentially making legal threats is not much better, when there is no concrete evidence that they would do so. Being interested in articles about judges does not suffice. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::The page of Justice ], who had conducted over the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI court hearing, was also created by me. ]] 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::::::<del>State plainly what the implication you are making here is, because what I'm hearing is "I'm familiar with people who have hit Misplaced Pages with a mallet in court before, and I can make sure it happens again".</del> <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::::This is becoming a rabbit hole. I urge you not to pursue the rabbit further. ] (]) 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::::::::Good call, I'll retract the above. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::::::No, that is not what I am implying. ]] 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::No one has said your contributions are not good. However, it should be noted that a draft being accepted at AfC or a new page having been ] does not guarantee greater scrutiny would not result in a valid AfD nomination. That said, echoing others here it's clear something problematic is up with this user's behavior. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 12:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::You can't both criticize someone for {{tq|lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related ] and ]}}, and then argue that she is too familiar with the platform to be a newcomer for knowing how to file an AfD. I wouldn't be surprised if most people here knew how to file an AfD before knowing all 14 notability guidelines by heart. ] (] · ]) 12:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::There are detailed instructions on filing an AfD that can be found by googling "how can I get a Misplaced Pages page deleted" - if somebody had some personal reason for wanting to have pages removed it doesn't strain credibility to think that's why they created a WP account and that they just followed the very clear instructions on the appropriate pages.
*:::In fact that might explain why some of the AfD filings were reasonable and some were, on their face, incorrectly filed. If you looked up the AfD ''process'' but not ''criteria'' that is the likely outcome. That's why I find the "new user files AfDs must be a sock" idea here somewhat uncompelling. ] (]) 13:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*I believe we're entering boomerang territory at this point. Opinions? ] (]) 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:I think OP is upset that a cluster of their articles were put up at AfD. This in itself is understandable, but while there's reason to think there might be mischief by Kriji Sehamati, we don't have any real evidence of it. We either need the OP to make it clearer what misconduct, if any, has occurred, or they need to ]. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 13:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::The OP has been intentionally disruptive (by creating a new ANI thread which was reverted), and this thread is going nowhere. IMHO, there's nothing ANI can do here. Everything I'm reading about should be resolved at the page talk and user talk level, in my opinion. The AfDs are underway. If dispute resolution is needed, fine. Nobody is harming S-Aura. S-Aura can't come crying to ANI (or four random user talk pages like mine) anytime someone merely disagrees with them. ] (]) 14:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I'd have said close with trout for all if not for creating the second thread at AN/I. Based on that I'd say the OP should be formally cautioned against such antics in the future. ] (]) 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I should have added that I largely hold with Remsense in their position. ] (]) 14:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::] is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages, but we don’t have any evidence because understanding Misplaced Pages’s AfD process so quickly can be a bit challenging. I have no problem with AfD regarding my contributions, and it’s a good thing that experienced contributors are giving their feedback. If you believe that the kriji is 100% correct and her activity is not suspicious, then this discussion should be closed. ]] 14:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::You need to stop insisting this is definitely the case if you don't have any evidence for it, period. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 14:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::S-Aura, how did you make the determination {{tq|User:Kriji Sehamati‬ is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages}}? Please share your process. That's a personal attack, and requires proof to prevent you from being in violation of ]. I've looked at the AfDs and they seem reasonable to me. When you've provided strong sources the article is being kept. So far the jury is out on the others. Both of you seem to be writing articles about obscure living persons who wouldn't normally (by my cursory reading) have a Misplaced Pages article about them because reliable sourcing is not readily found. When I see that, I must suspect COI or undeclared unpaid editing here, but nobody's admitting to it. ] (]) 15:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::S-Aura's continuing to issue personal attacks makes it more difficult for us to just close this (without some form of consequence for the editor making unproven personal attacks after they've been warned repeatedly). ] (]) 15:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::I have made a level-four user talk page warning for the personal attack. FYI. We've been very nice about this up 'til now, but we need to stop being so kind. Doing foolish things has real world consequences. ] (]) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
* Both editors' apparent use of AI is certainly disruptive. If it continues, it should lead to blocks. <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 15:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:No personal hate intended, but I just found this and thought it would be worth checking. ]] 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::It would be nice if you could explain the significance for those who do not speak Hausa. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 16:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::She had made contributions to pages in other languages a few months ago. I am attaching her contributions link. ]] 16:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::How does this constitute evidence of sockpuppetry if we aren't to know what exactly happened? There's a reason we don't just automatically block anybody who is blocked on another language wiki, and I looked through the edits some and didn't find anything outrageous that made it past the language barrier. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 17:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::::I agree that it’s important to ensure we have solid evidence before making conclusions. I appreciate your perspective on not automatically blocking users based on blocks from other language wikis. ]] 17:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::::Please don't reply to me or others using ChatGPT. It is flat-out rude. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 17:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
* '''Support BOOMERANG''' - I've been uninvoled and have mainly just been watching the back-and-forths, but the personal attacks and ] mindset, such as "questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors", concerns me. Not sure for how long, but I don't think anything longer than a months is appropriate given the circumstances. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 15:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*This whole thread, but especially the 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC) comment, feels like the OP is just throwing literally everything at the wall to see what sticks. But, worse, what is being thrown at the wall lacks any significant body of evidence to support. I note that a personal attack warning has been given for the continued unfounded accusations being presented, which I think is a good move. I don't support a block at this point, although if I was the OP I would withdraw this complaint and/or drop the stick and walk away from this topic as a matter of urgency to avoid continuing to make the situation worse. ] (]) 17:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


== Darkwarriorblake making aspersions ==
== {{vandal|Aditya.pidaparthy}} ==
{{atop|result=The OP says they don't care any more which I'm reading as a withdrawal and the other party says they won't be responding again so I'm closing this discussion. My only comment is that both editors in this dispute should have brought this to the article talk page to talk this disagreement out. I don't know if the differences would be resolved but this is what we advise editors to do when their edits are reverted. Now I just have to get that scene in the movie out of my mind. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)}}
Could someone look at this user's ] and his ]? He has lots of images uploaded with faulty copyrights along with a whole mess of moves. I can't tell if this is a vandal or just a very confused new user. Could someone take a look? --]<sup>]</sup> 14:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Postscript: Ah, someone just close this, I don't care any more. &nbsp;— ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 22:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:I just spent well over an hour undoing the mess this guy caused. He caused 3 double redirects and 2 redirects that didn't need to be redirects. Plus he created a duplicate article and 2 copyvios. Goodness. I warned him on his talk page. Need to watch his edits for awhile. Nothing worse than people doing moves that don't know how to do them properly. Blech. --]<sup>]</sup> 16:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::Look at the history here: --he's in a revert war with Tawkerbot. <b><span style="color: #f33">&middot;]&middot;</span></b> 16:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm posting here after a particularly underwhelming interaction with an editor in the form of edit summaries. I'll need to provide the context of a brief content dispute which hopefully won't take too long and then get to the point. I'm not asking for anyone to take my side in the dispute.
:::I've blocked for 24 hours for the revert war. Maybe someone could leave a message on his talk page about his behavior.--] <sup>(])</sup> 16:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Revert war with Tawkerbot? Uh, who's going to win there???? LOL! That's hilarious... that person has to be new and confused... seriously. ] 17:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yeah I'd go with Netscott here. I think he's just new. --]<sup>]</sup> 03:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::::::I ended his block early. He probably should've been warned before the 3RR rule was invoked. I highly doubt he knew what it was. --]<sup>]</sup> 04:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


'']'' is a widely acclaimed comedy film from 1983, which is also widely acknowledged to have problematic elements by modern standards, including a scene in which the villain of the piece, stuck in a gorilla costume, is locked in a cage with a real gorilla, which is implied to sexually penetrate him without his consent.
== eh.. ? ==
{{User|R. S. Shaw}}, could someone please fix these pagemoves?--] 15:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


The article states that ] demurred being cast in the role upon finding that out. for this claim is a ] on ], which contains the sentence
:What's wrong with them? --] 16:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
: ''Reportedly, Liddy was on board until he got to the part where Beeks .''
::They make the page completly un-usable, look at what was done to the WP:RD/s and tell me you wouldn't be horrified if the same thing was done to AN/i--] 16:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Reportedly ''by whom'' is not mentioned, let alone is there a direct quotation from Liddy. Plus as can be seen the words "becomes a gorilla's mate" are linked to a very poor quality, hand-held video of the scene in question playing on a television. This alone should be enough to raise serious questions about the use of this "source" in a featured article.
*It's all still working for me. Are you talking about old sections being archived? Please be a bit more specific about what you think is wrong. - ]|] 22:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


The content dispute began when I changed it like this () with the comment ''Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs'':
=={{Vandal|Beingtoofree}}==
{{text diff|Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla.|Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks is raped by a gorilla.}}
This ] needs to be blocked indefinitely. This account's sole purpose was to repeatedly remove wikilinks and blank images related to one article. {{User|Royboycrashfan}} but this needs to be permanent. This user was vandalizing ] as well. Thanks. ] 19:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:Looks like he's removings pics and links to Muhammad cartoon controversy... -- ] <sup>]</sup> 19:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::I'm about 99% sure that recently permanently blocked user {{vandal|Dangling_pointer}} is the same individual from the pattern of vandalism (WP:AIV, etc.). ] 20:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Grafikm: That's censoring! <font color="#007FFF">]</font>''']'''<font color="#007FFF">]</font>|<sup><font color="orange">]</font></sup> 20:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


This was reverted () by {{u|Darkwarriorblake}} with the comment ''not what the source says''.


After thinking about it a moment I came to the conclusion described above about the quality of the source, and decided that it was better out than in, which is what I should have done in the first place.()
==Problem with ]==
User ] has posted a request for arbitration with respect to his claims that I have harassed him and revealed personal information about him. He has failed to substantiate these allegations in a convincing manner and I note that his request for arbitration looks as though it will be rejected. I would therefore like to bring the following selection of recent comments made by user ] to administrator attention on account of their incivility, defamatory nature and other infringments of Misplaced Pages policy. (I am sorry I have to quote all these verbatim as I am not sure how to make short-cut links to them.)


{{text diff|...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks. Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla. Paul Gleason took the role;...|...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks with Paul Gleason eventually taking the role;...}}
Posted to ]:
With reference to another user:
::"''I have no doubt and no hesitation in saying that you are completely unqualified as a Pali translator''". ]c 03:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
and
::"''And you advertise yourself as a Pali scholar? Or any sort of scholar?"'' ] 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
and
::"''You consistently use bad translations, because you don't know enough Pali to tell a good translation from a bad. ...... You could try learning Pali if you don't want to face continued embarrassment."'' 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
and
::"''I have no doubt and no hesitation in saying that you are completely unqualified as a Pali translator. There is a special word for someone who claims qualifications he utterly lacks, but I believe it would be impolitic of me to use it here''". ] 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


My accompanying comment was ''(a) That was the source's voice, not Liddy's. It's called a euphemism. Demonstrable by how it links to a clip of the scene in which a man is raped by a gorilla. (b) Source says "reportedly" for this claim, without evidence. Poor quality source. Removing claim''
Then, with reference to myself:
::"''If you do not know Pali, then you had no grounds for endorsing his "translations", and my linguistic explanations will make no sense to you. I can only suggest that you study the language for yourself, in that case .... I appreciate your offer to rewrite the page, however, I have concerns about your ability to present a neutral point of view, as I understand you are not a disinterested party. I don't think there is any reason for you to rush''". ]21:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
and
::"''Hodge: I cannot and do not estimate any person based on their own claims of their talents or abilities: only by what they themselves exhibit and what I can myself double-check. .... But I ask you, assuming some small dose of knowledge on your part''" ] 10:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


That was reverted by Darkwarriorblake () with the comment ''Nothing wrong with Indiewire as a source, if there is I'd raise it at ]. Until then, there's a talk page for you to use per ]. Your comments sound agenda driven and therefore not Neutral.''
Additionally in the ] page, ] claims, sometime prior to the 19th June 2006:
::"''Dr Tony Page, aka TonyMPNS run a website in corraboration with Stephen Hodge''".


This is where the reason for me to raise this at this board begins, because that's solidly an example of ]. It came on top of a revert which reintroduced a claim cited to a rumor in a blog post into a featured article, but that's really not my concern, because if the champions of the featured article process have decided that it's somehow acceptable for our "best" content then I'm just going to move on to something else rather than argue.
To which user ] replied later that day,
::"''Stephen Hodge does not run the "Nirvana Sutra" website with me - I do''."
And I also replied,
::"''Of course, I know Dr Page personally, value his friendship and have produced translations for him on a professional, contractual basis, that he has reproduced on his website -- a website in which I have no direct involvement whatsoever."'' ] 16:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


There's one final back and forth which was enough to motivate me to post here. First, I reverted that revert (, my only time using the actual "Undo" button today), with this comment: ''a good source doesn't say "reportedly" (ie, spread a rumor), it specifies the origin of a fact. My only "agenda" is with a crap listicle being used as a reference, regardless of who published it. Take it to talk if you want to argue for the continued inclusion of a trash ref in a featured article, or source the claim properly yourself''.
Nevertheless, ] persists in claiming in a posting to user ]'s UserTalk, with the intention of implying that there is some form of cabal in play, that:
::"''both Page and Hodge are co-creators of the Parinirvana Sutra site listed in the External Links list.'' " ] 05:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


This was reverted - again - by Darkwarriorblake () with the comment '' How are you an admin? "rape played for laughs" is an agenda, this went through FA as is so ] and ] apply. You must go to the talk page, not I. I don't know if you're going through a bad time or something but this isn't how an admin should be acting or communicating with others, up to and including ]''
I then posted a message to this ]'s UserTalk page, beginning:
::''You said in a message to User Vapour's talk page, that "both Page and Hodge are co-creators of the Parinirvana Sutra site". I am categorically not a co-creator and I have nothing whatsoever to do with it, beyond the fact that Dr Page uses material he has paid me to translate for him. Would you please retract that statement'' ?"


At this point it's gone firmly into the realm of knee-jerk reversions, because if Darkwarriorblake took the time to read the article which they've (is this ]? Kind of feels that way), they would get down to the ] section. Which says "some critics have praised the film while highlighting elements that they believe aged poorly, including racial language, the use of blackface, and the implied rape of Beeks by a gorilla", cited to articles in four major publications. Or, you know, even .
I followed, unwisely in retrospect, this with what was intended as a humourous riposte, alluding to a certain user of a children's art website which I never assumed or believed was actually this user ], who has indeed also subsequently confirmed is not connected with he/she/it.


So anyhow regardless of whether the Indiewire source is deemed suitable or not, I'm just wondering what the feeling here is about someone making goofy assertions on the record that another editor has "an agenda" (what agenda could it be?) and may not be emotionally stable, which really doesn't feel like ] at all. &nbsp;— ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 20:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
However, I received this message on my Usertalk from ]:
:Hrrm, this seems a bit excessive.
::''I pity whatever poor person you have me confused with when you start sending her (or him) hatemail. You really don't have it together, Hodge. I recommend a vacation."'' ] 12:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
:*I've added a second source for the claim. Really this should've been the first option rather than removing the content.
:*The first summary was, as stated, "Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs". "Rape played for laughs" is a loaded comment and not something said in the article or the source text, so it's a personal opinion, it's not neutral, it's agenda-driven.
:*When this was reverted, the editor just removed the content entirely claiming IndieWire was unreliable. There is, as far as I'm aware, nothing wrong with Indiewire. I've since found a second source, the Telegraph, which is reliable per ].
:*The editor ignored WP: BRD when raised, and as an admin they should adhere to policy.
:*The editor states that they are an admin on their page. Assuming this is true, the aggressiveness of their edits, hyper focus on the single area, and use of words like "crap listicle" seemed out of line with what I, personally, would expect from an admin on Misplaced Pages, certainly someone who has been so for nearly two decades. Perhaps the edit summary wasn't the place to have that discussion but, as stated, they weren't adhering to WP: BRD to start a discussion, and in the interim the article needed putting back to the status quo.
:*I find accusations of OWNERSHIP often tend to come when people don't get their way. Which is fine. I have plenty of reversions on the page for people adding unsourced content and there are plenty of changes as well. I find someone removing sourced content and me putting the sourced content back to not ''really'' be something you can fling ownership at.
:*Within the context of the film, Beeks does become the romantic partner of the gorilla, it seemed more appropriate and encylcopedic text than just saying 'rape', and neither source I've added says that either.
:*Anyways, my edit history shows I'm a massive contributor and helper and it's nearly Xmas, and I don't feel like engaging with this any further, good luck Hex. ] (]) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::Of course you don't, having ignored the actual matter of your conduct that I'm raising here. Your comments about the content of the article are irrelevant. &nbsp;— ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 20:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hex's position is not wholly supported, although in the entire issue, their toolset is irrelevant. There was no incivility on either part, and an all-out edit war seems to have been averted.{{pb}}Fundamentally the change Hex wanted to make was pure OR; rape may have been intimated—or, as Hex themself admits, implied—but its never overtly stated and is a wholly loaded term. This is the interpretation of an editor, not of secondary sources. If there is a pron=blem with Indywire as a source—currently used in —take it to WP:RSN. If it's disputed that it's a high quality source per WP:FA?, then take it to WT:FAC. Accusations of OWNership are as unhelpful—and as much an aspersion—as accusations of agenda-led editing. In fact, for OWNership, Hex should read the relevant policy: here, it is WP:FAOWN, which not only allows for careful stewardship of featured material, but requires significant changes to the consensus version to be discussed on talk; I don't suppose there's any suggestion that introducing rape—particularly "played for laughs"—wouldn't be a significant addition.{{pb}}Really though, this is an overblown content dispute which should have started with ''one revert'' each, and ended on the talk page. --]'']''] 21:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*:"Never overtly stated... 'played for laughs' be a significant addition" - with John Landis, the director. {{talk quote|One of the executives was deeply appalled by a man being sexually molested by a gorilla. And I said you know, it's a joke and it goes by very quickly. But the first preview was very successful and it all went away. ''''}}
*:Feel free to amend the article on that basis. I'm certainly not interested in spending any more time on it. &nbsp;— ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


===Followup===
This allegation is repeated by implication is ]'s request for arbitration, '''with absolutely no corroborative or substantiating evidence''':
I just want to say that, now that we've had an ANI thread on the subjeect of Gordon Liddy's feelings about portraying the romantic partner of a gorilla, I can die happy.
::''I am concerned that User:Stephen Hodge's message may lead, or may have already led, to harassment of the person he has incorrectly identified as me.'' ] 14:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


While we're on the subject, recites that {{tq|Prior to his departure from the FBI in 1962, Liddy sought admission to various bars.}} I'm curious to know whether this is meant to imply that Liddy had a , and whether this could have had any bearing on the whole gorilla romantic partner situation. ]]
The above two sets of remarks are vicious, defamatory and obviously more serious in nature than any supposed actions on my part with respect to ], given that my real-life identity is transparent.
{{abot}}


== Extremely Annoying situation ==
I request that ] be urged to withdraw these statements and apologize.--] 22:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = Blocked for one week. ] (]/]) 01:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


I reverted by ]. They then times for it. One of these was for "being shovel shenanigans" which I took as a ] and informed them of it.
:Did you read the section at the top of this page which says ''Please make your comments concise. Administrators are less likely to read long diatribes. ''? ]|] 01:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


The rest escapes words for me. See these discussions.
== I have been having a dispute lately... ==


]
About a week ago or so, I had a debate with ] about whether the ] was the successor to the ]. He got angry with me and claimed that I was intentionally removing information, when in fact I was removing his claims because they were unsourced. I told him to show his sources, and the sources he gave didn't say anything about his claims. I then brought the issue up to ], where the debate was ended in my favor. During the dispute, however, he used two IP addresses to revert my changes and used one of them to attack me, calling me a "menace" and a "nuisance". He also accused me and ] of vandalism on the ] page, when we had no such intent. Recently, he left me some nasty comments on my talk page, which I removed, but he still won't back down on personally attacking me. He also claims that I "damaged" the AMC Matador article after I performed some requested cleanup work from ].


] ]
The same user was also involved in a dispute with ] about the ] article, in which Wiathurhu exhibted similar behavior. He's also used his own user page and the requests for meditation board to launch personal attacks against Mmx1. Me and Mmx1 have tried reporting him to ], but we have not gotten a response yet. Here are the related links to my dispute:


they also used a ] to continue to irk me. I hesitated to bring this to ANI, since they seemed new, and I didn't want to bite, but enough is enough.
--] 22:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 00:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:Examples of the user's behavior in my dispute with him in the F-14 matter:
{{abot}}
:*rewriting a request for mediation (which we both agreed to) from a neutral content dispute resolution into an attack on me and my qualifications
:and despite participating (even if in bad faith) in a request of mediation, continuing to edit the page in dispute ].
:*repeatedly calling into question my qualifications including insinuated personal attacks on my academic qualifications and intelligence
<blockquote>
As far as I know, I have no reason to believe that you have even a bachelors degree, ever taken a course in writing or logic, ever wrote a computer program, or even held a job, let alone an IQ over 100, purchased, borrowed, browsed or even read a single book, magazine, watched any media or even visited an aviation museum exhibit on the F-14.</blockquote>
:*using the ] article as a soapbox for content disputes:
:*and behaving in a generally antagonistic manner:
::""I dare you to revert that, unless you believe you are a more reliable source than Grumman's original test pilot"
::*dared editors to revert him
::*proclaiming "VICTORY"
::*treating mediation like a fight: "bring it on, baby"
::*defining a mediation in terms of win/loss for either side
::--] 23:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


== IP vandalism ==
== Problem with ] ==
{{atop
| result = Blocked. {{nac}} <span style="padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:-1px">] <span style=color:red>F</span> ]</span> 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
}}


This user: ] seems to be on a spree of Vandalism, which they are summarising in the edit summaries as 'reverting vandalism'. Example: ] <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small><sup>]</sup>
This user is continually adding unnecessary information to the lead of the ] article. He/she refuses to follow ] and is adding statements such as "it still managed to hit platinum in 2 countries and gold in over 5 other countries, including USA, UK and The Netherlands" to the lead. Detailed sentences about what countries a musician's second album was certified Gold and Platinum definitely do not belong in an article's lead. This article was recently promoted to Good Article status and this user is continually making unconstructive edits. When approached at his/her talk page, they refuse to rationally discuss the issue and instead swear and state that they can and will do whatever they want (in violation of ]). "I want it like that and i will continously change it! good bye." and "I WILL DO WHAT I WANT ! its a freee site good bye!" . On the Nelly Furtado talk page, he/she states "quit changing the damn article! I want it like that i think its FINE! leave it alone!!!!!" and "DO NOT CHANGE IT GOD DAMMIT!" . The user is also in violation of the 3RR rule, which I must admit I am also in violation of, as I am trying to remove the unconstructive/fancruft-ish edits the user continually makes but refuses to discuss. --] 00:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


:including racist edits summarized as reverting racist texts. Example ] (]) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
== "David Jason Silver" AKA Harvardlaw/69.10.123.4 ==
::The IP is already blocked. To OP: Consider reporting obvious vandalism like this at ]. &ndash; ] (]) (]) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== User Stationmanagerskidrow removing information on ] page ==
*{{vandal|69.10.123.4}}
*{{vandal|Harvardlaw}}
This user, who is apparently named "David Jason Silver", has decided that Misplaced Pages exists for his self-promotion. For the past month he's been writing articles about himself and his company, and inserting references to himself into many other articles, always inappropriately and sometimes fraudulently. He has been warned about this many times, but has barely acknowledged any warnings or used the talk pages. He has recreated deleted articles, removed Afd tags, engaged in repeated copyvios/plagiarism, and other inappropriate behavior. Each account has been blocked once for brief periods. I propose that the next time he inserts a self-reference, a copyvio, or other previously-warned behaviors, he get a one-week block on both accounts. Any thoughts? -] 00:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:PS: His "next-time" has already occured: . -] 00:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::I was just about to give the user a 3RR block for edits to ], already blocked. -- ] <small>] ]</small> 00:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::{{vandal|24.137.173.67}} He is also using this IP, same pattern of behavior, same articles. --] 01:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::::After several more bad edits I blocked the two main accounts. If he uses 24.137.173.67 we can block that too. -] 01:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, this guy's edits are bordering on the bizarre. At one point, in an article now deleted, he had listed the full name of his 16 year old daughter (not something I would do if I had a 16 year old daughter), and his home address. Not to mention the self-glorifying nature of the edits - he refers to himself as a "war hero" (he was a sailor in peace time on a ship off the Balkans - not exactly in the heat of battle, a "land baron" and "business magnate," a "famous amateur wrestler," a "business partner of Donald Trump," and a "future presidential candidate." Thanks to supplying us with his full name and address, I found out he has a weird trademark infringement lawsuit with Motorola, and equally bizarre "blog" and homepage , and has refered to himself as a "war hero" on numerous forums (just one example). I'm starting to wonder what is going on - is this a delusional individual with aspirations of glory but without the, *ahem*, social skills or intellect to achieve it, or is it someone else intentionally smearing David Silver or trying to make him look foolish? --] 04:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:''"At one point, in an article now deleted, he had listed the full name of his 16 year old daughter (not something I would do if I had a 16 year old daughter), and his home address."'' Oversight the revision, indefinite block the guy. No quarter for privio. --] ] 04:21, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::My mistake - the girl's name is still in the revision history of one of the articles Harvardlaw revised (if you need the link, I can supply it). Is there a way to remove that since she is a legal minor, and I would suppose not aware that here full legal name was listed for everyone to see?--] 04:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::]. Go there, find someone currently editing on the list, and drop them a message. --] ] 05:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


::Giving the name of the daughter sounds like a hostile act, but, then again, I have certainly known some people as ... desperate? delusional? ... as these edits. (I had years of being called "Fake Christian scum" by Steve Winter.) We really need that out, though. If the person is nutty, he may not realize the effects of the history. If it's an attacker, we should protect the victim. ] 13:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


] is repeatedly removing information about a recent incident involving a Jewish DJ at ]. They say that it is incorrect information, even though it is sourced. The name also states clearly that this is a company account. Lastly, they have continued this behavior even after being warned on their talk page. ] (]) 03:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I haven't seen, or don't recall, the edit which contains the girl's name. However I'm familiar with most of this editors work here on Misplaced Pages, and have looked at his personal blog. The style and focus are consistent, so I that this account really is Silver. I expect that he would have included his daughter's name due to vanity rather than ill-intent. I am more concerned with his energetic self-promotion, which is so unwarranted that it amounts to vandalism and which is sometimes outright fraudulent. I think that we should give him at least another chance, when his blocks expire, but that if the behavior doesn't change he'll eventually have to be blocked indefinitely. -] 08:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


:User is now editing using ] ] (]) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
== Brian G. Wilson apparently evading block ==


::This is a content dispute and the article is being actively edited by many different editors. However, no discussion about the disagreements has occurred on the article talk page which is where this discussion should be happening. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Due to similar writing styles, similarly hostile/above-the-rules attitudes, timing of edits, overlapping edits on ], and similar edits on various other articles, I am fairly well convinced that ] and ] are sockpuppets of ] (interesting discussion page there), who was blocked on June 19 for legal threats, personal attacks, and threats to 'destroy Misplaced Pages', and whose dubious vanity article claiming royal kinship was ] on June 27. I'd just like it to be noted that while his rants have toned down, he is using these other accounts to evade the block. It's not clear to me whether that's a violation of policy, per se.—] 01:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


That article probably should be speedied as an A7 for not containing any assertions of notability; which obscures that Stationmanagerskidrow appears to have been edit warring on it with an undisclosed COI, and presumably was ]ing as , and if so violated 3RR as well. It's probably best for me not to take administrative action here tonight as I won't be around later/tomorrow to deal with any followups, but something should be done here beyond just saying "take it to the talk page." ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
== Eon 8 ==
:The page was longer, but sourced (all but?) soley to the station's site and it's been trimmed down to what it is now. Given the repeated edit-warring by IPs I've semi-protected the page for two days for now. - ] <sub>]</sub> 07:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::] and ] message added . I'm just about to make myself thoroughly ] by seeing what I can do about the ] article. ] (]) 🦘 09:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


== Insults ==
I don't want to start a wheel war, especially since I'm not really around that much anymore, but am I the only one troubled by Malo's deletion of ] after he was the one who started the AfD? This is a site that's been linked to from lots of places, and been discussed all over the internet. The page was written in NPOV and acouple of my friends on myspace even referred to wikipedia's link on it. Thousands of people are curious to what this is. But the more important part is, the AfD was improperly closed. Thoughts? ] (]) 05:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


See also ]. ] (]) 05:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to report an incident related to ]. A person under IP already accused me of being "obsessed". Now someone (possibly the same person) . Please also see . I guess we can always agree to disagree with other people, but this is going a bit too far. Thank you. ] (]) 09:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:I thought the same. There was no consensus in the AfD to delete, even discounting new editors' comments. ] 05:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:Hello, Psychloppos. What action are you seeking to happen here? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 09:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah, we need a sysop to reinstate this article, and pronto. The situation at ] (the eon8 experiment having drawn the attention of the DHS and CIA, specifically) is the first reason I've had to contribute outside of Misplaced Pages userspace in almost a year. Last I checked, defaulting your own VfD's to ''any'' decision was a "no-no" here. That there's no consensus on how to handle eon8 goes without saying right now, and at the very least, the ] article should resume regular editing while a new VfD is conducted. ]<sup>]</sup> 05:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::I have no idea which actions are warranted here. Maybe an admin could leave a message to this IP and this registered user and remind them that they should ] ? It would also be nice to remind them about ] and ]. Saying that I am "fuelled by an unhealthy obsession" or questioning my sanity do not seem to respect those guidelines. ] (]) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Shem, I thought you were sysop. Either way, restored. ] (]) 05:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
==Nlkyair012 and LLM chatbots ==
::::Hell naw. I'd only started the Texan collaboration, a few other things, but never bothered putting up with RfA's when they were offered on IRC. Dicked around in too many political articles, I reckon. You can still check my userpage's history for the disappearing act, though. ]<sup>]</sup> 05:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC) (Oh yeah, some people're real pissy about guys who drink and edit.)
*{{Noping|Nlkyair012}}
:::::Well, new afd ]. I protected it from anons and new editors who messed up the last AfD. This should be closed round July 6th. ] (]) 06:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
This editor has been constantly using AI chatbots to respond and write messages. They are a single purpose account for glorifying the ] caste using unreliable ] era sources, I and several other experienced editors have taken time and effort to respond to their endless queries and ] generated using ChatGPT. They have posted AI generated walls of text on multiple noticeboards such as ] and ] and including here , accusing me of vandalism.
::::::Isn't this what deletion review is for? And did anyone tell Malo he was being discussed here? <b><span style="color: #f33">&middot;]&middot;</span></b> 14:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::::At the end of the day I've seen way too many improperly handled AfDs lately. ] 02:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


Despite my repeated requests and even a final warning to them (including a request by {{ping|ActivelyDisinterested}}) they are still continuing to do it. Their messages are repeating the same argument again and again and are frankly just ] that bring up fictitious guidelines or misrepresent the existing ones. Several editors have told them that Raj era sources are not reliable yet they continue to ask for more evidence on why that is the case based on AI generated claims of supposed academic value or neutrality. This is getting very disruptive and taking up valuable contributor time to respond to their endless AI responses which take a few seconds to generate. I have alerted them about ] and ], I would appreciate it if someone could enforce a restriction on this user from at minimum caste area. - ] (]) 13:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
== ] block review ==


:Hello @Ratnahastin,
<span class="plainlinks">] (] • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font> • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font>)</span> has unilaterally engaged in moving many pages with titles from "bint" to "binte" because that is what he calls the proper spelling. Britannica uses "bint" for Fatima and other scholarly sources. For instance google "Salma bint Umays" vs, "Salma binte Umays". 0 hits vs. 137. My point is, even if he is right it's not a settled matter. It was all done in good faith I believed and I did . He and then posted claiming he was right. He subsequently removed all of the pages that I had taken the effort to revert. I blocked him for 24 hours and I want this block reviewed. I don't really think of myself as involved since I don't care if it's bint or binte since I don't know which is proper but unilaterally moving so many pages without discussing which is proper and then ignoring requests for him to seek consensus strikes me as disruption. (If my block was unjustified please say so.)
:To start with I should admit that I am sorry for all the inconvenience that I may have caused as a result of my actions. It was never my intention to take people’s time or skew the conversation in a certain way. I appreciate the core idea to contribute the thoughts to the Wiki and share it borne in mind the overall rules and policies of this program.
:I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site. Even when I was using AI for the grammar check or, for instance, to elaborate on some point in the text, I saw to my mismanagement that over the process we probably confused the readers and repeated the same information and thoughts, which I would never wish to happen again. From now on I will ensure that in the future the input which I provide to wikipedia fits the Misplaced Pages standard and is more personal. I will also not write walls of text and will not make assertations that do not have substantiated evidence in sources.
:As for subjects that concern the Raj and the sources from this period and the discussions we have had it seems that I have gone too far in demanding clarification for the same thing. That being the case, with the understanding that the consensus will be acknowledged, I shall not be inclined to reopen this discussion unless new substantiated evidence is produced. I don’t want to prolong the conversation or bring any more stress.
:I will strive to learn from my experience to be more productive in my interactions going forward. If there are other limitations or additional rules to which I have to stick to, I will receive them with pleasure.
:In the same respect, let me specially apologize for the inconvenience and thank all of you for bearing with us. That was why I wanted to remind all of us that we can and should keep collectively improving Misplaced Pages as a resource. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::This comment also has a typical LLM feel and contains meaningless statements such as "I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site" and differs substantially from , although GPTzero said this is human input. - ] (]) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It seems human in that it contains some composition and grammar errors that I don’t think an LLM would produce. <span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧁</span>]<span style="position: relative; top: -0.5em;">꧂</span> 13:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the reply sir, I can't explain how frustrated I'm feeling from this morning which this user made me experience <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::The time when I messaged Vikram banafar I was casual not formal and second of all your saying doesn't prove anything "and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style" that's a straight up false accusation and utter nonsensical point and 3rd point being that GPTzero stated that this is a human input then that's an human input end of the question. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::No it's really not the end of the story if GPTZero says "likely human". In fact I'd actively discourage people depending on tools like GPTZero in favour of their human senses ] than yet another computer program. And, frankly, what you're hearing from people here is we'd rather your casual, human, flaws-and-all style of writing over ChatGPT output "formal" report templates. They are doing the opposite of what you're looking for and have become disruptive. ] (]) 14:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Man you still wanna do this? @] also says this doesn't seems AI generated to him and he used his actual "Human senses" to lean that way <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Admitting that you have used AI for writing your comments and then saying that you have not used AI is not going to help your case. - ] (]) 14:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::You know what I think this is getting to the ] point. Having to tell somebody to have the basic respect of other editors to not subject them to text-walls of chatGPT garbage over and over again is a disruptive distraction from what we should all be doing. ] (]) 14:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::This ain't getting anywhere <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I really don't understand the problem. Cuz I literally also said many where that yes I used AI but for expanding and grammar correction <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::If this combative approach is your "casual" style, perhaps your use of AI and its over the top politeness was an attempt to mask it. In any case, I think you are ] but for caste glorification given your obsession with a certain sub-caste. - ] (]) 14:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::im not obsessed with a certain subcaste but am sure is obsessed with British Raj sources. <span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:#FF4500; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold;">]</span> 14:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I don't think that's better. ] (]) 15:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


== Potential vandal trying to start edit war on the page for Frisch's. ==
On anotehr note the user pastes large chunks of texts from other sites and his response to me says it's okay because other sites paste chunks of Misplaced Pages. I am not sure if he is saying that Misplaced Pages was the original source for the other articles online or what... but, in any case they aren't neutral and add nothing. He has also uploaded images with <nowiki>{{book cover}}</nowiki> that clearly aren't book covers. I just want to know how admins think I should procede with this... block for longer if he continues? undo the block now? revert all of the bint -> binte? ] ] 06:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


This user keeps using IP addresses in order to revert creditable information about who makes their tartar sauce. Please look into this user. IP Addresses used were 67.80.16.30, 66.117.211.82, and 216.24.107.180. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It seems fine to me. As for other sites copying content that he wrote, that is unlikely if it was discovered quickly. If I understand correctly and assuming the potential copyvio was found throught Google, Misplaced Pages's database dump has to be updated to include the edit, then the site has to update their copy of Misplaced Pages and then they have to wait for Google to come around and index their site again. Depending how frequently we update our database (it has not been updated since mid-May) and when Google last indexed their site (and whether it is one of the sites they index frequently or not), it might take several days or up to several months for this to happen. -- ] 11:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


:Courtesy link ]. ] (]) 17:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I support the block. Copying large blocks of text from other web sites isn't acceptable; if he's had that explained to him and continues to do it, yeah, he should be blocked for it. Similarly, if he's using the wrong tags on uploaded images, especially clearly copyrighted ones, he needs to have the policy explained and potentially be blocked. I would revert all the bint/binte changes and encourage him to start a discussion on a relevant page or relevant pages to try to build clear consensus for the moves. ]]] ] 16:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


== ] inaccurate edit summaries ==
He doesn't seem to have responded at all to my requests that he not do what he is doing and again erased my comments from his talk page (which, isn't exactly a good sign that he will listen). If he makes the changes again without discussion I am going to give him a week block. ] ] 19:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


== ] blocked ==


All but 2 of user's edit summaries are "Fixed Typo" when they are in fact partially updating statistical information on the page. Have left multiple messages/warnings on TP, with no response. ] (]) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I have blocked ] for 3 days for personal attacks and offensive behaviour (mocking users' IQs) on ], and for disruptive behaviour in starting an RfC on a completely unrelated administrator whose only involvement was to place warnings for the above behaviour on his/her user page (which this user promptly removed). I have advised this user of ways he can seek to have this block overturned, and if another administrator feels that this block should be overturned, I will respect that. - ] 09:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


== ] Semi-Protection ==
:He needed to be in the time out corner, and 3 days is probably good. I endorse the block, although I do think this was a peevish person stamping his foot and ''might'' have been neutralized by ignoring. A short block is at least as valid an approach though. (I hate it when people try to be clever and just miss. The belly flop they make is much more noticeable than someone just jumping feet first into the pool.) ] 13:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


] was semi-protected back in 2019. Now that five years have passed, could the semi-protection be lifted? ] (]) 16:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
== Removing Vandalism warning? ==


:Ask at ] ] ] 16:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Is it possible to remove a vandalism warning from my account - I'll be honest it irks me to know that people with vandal proof will see that I have a warning for what I consider 1)acting in good faith and 2) in line with Misplaced Pages guidelines.


== Request for Review of Neutrality and Repeated Actions ==
I removed a Vandalproof logo from http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Abdelkweli . This was after it came to my attention that his page contained mainly fictional awards and seemed to be copied wholesale from another user. I left a message on his userpage asking if he required assistance setting up his userpage and also suggesting that he removed both the Vandalproof logo and one that said he had 2,500 edits (he had about 100 mostly to his own userpage). After no response I then removed the vandalproof logo with a clear edit reason to explain why. In return he placed a vandalism warning on my userpage. As I mentioned I feel I acted both in good faith and inline with Misplaced Pages guidance. --] 09:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


Dear admin,
:The answer is "of course," at least from my point of view. If you had been accused of an article vandalism, the matter would need to rest for longer. Since it's a questionable author's questionable page that you changed, it seems kosher to me to remove the warning. New and bad users like to use the word "vandal," and this one used the template. No difference. (At the same time, I did see, on your talk page, some (inadvertent, I hope?) overly tight vandal locks on some pages. I assume that you're living and learning and not intentionally locking down pages. (Syd could have played ''both,'' of course.) ] 13:08, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to express my concern regarding Psycholoppos, who has repeatedly applied the neutrality dispute tag to content related to Randa Kassis. Despite previous clarifications, these actions suggest a potential bias, which could undermine the objectivity and integrity of the platform.


I kindly request that you review this matter and take appropriate steps to ensure that all users adhere to neutrality standards. If possible, I would also appreciate guidance on how to address such situations constructively in the future.
Yes - in getting the hang of vandalproof I have been a bit on the tight side - in that incident, I want straight to the user's page and explained that I HAD been overly tight and that he should re-write the text as he felt fit (I also left a welcome and suggested that he got a user-id because it would make future conversation easier). --] 13:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for your attention to this issue. Please feel free to reach out if further clarification is needed.
==Zer0faults==
Hazar ] (]) 17:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Can somebody look into {{user|Zer0faults}} actions, he is blindly reverting,13:54, July 1, 2006 13:25, July 1, 2006 13:08, July 1, 2006 12:52, June 30, 2006 refuses to discuss or read the articles that supports the edit he objects to (], ], ], ]) and he also makes incorrect edit summaries: claiming the rv is because there is no evidence but in fact he refuses to read the evidence. He removes comment on his odd behaviour from his talk page with rather uncivil edit summary.<font color="green"> ]</font><sup><i><font color="blue"><small>]</small></font></i></sup> 12:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::Is there a reason you didnt add this comment in your list, the first comment you made on my page '''"The fact you fail to read them but still claim UET is not being used proves you are only being a dick."''' --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 14:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC) :@], whether the NPOV tag is needed or not should first be discussed on the article's talk page. Also, see the large notice at the top of this page: you are required to notify the editor you are reporting. ]&nbsp;] 17:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:This user has been asked to provide some proof of his claim that, The Bush administration uses Unitary Executive Theory to justify Black Sites, Extraordinary Rendition etc. He refuses to do this. User:WGee has asked that all additions be fully sourced, I have begun compiling sources for the existing content and have asked Nescio to provide sources for his additions, he refuses and puts the following on my talk page --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 13:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::AGF violation '''"All you need is in the articles and references, why do you refuse to read it if not out of POV pushing."''' After asking this user to provide a source. I do not see why they feel everyone should fetch sources for the content they add. Furthermore the Unitary Executive Theory is not appropriate for the template much like Guantanamo Bay. The templates for Cold War and WW2 do not list places and law theories, they list events. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 13:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::You can further see the mess they have created on the talk page. First they challenged the foundation of everything in the template. When given reasons, they in a violation of ] broadly attempted to rework the entire page, changing events to actions so they can list everything they feel belongs in the template without discussing with anyone. I started a poll to see if anyone supported this, only he voted in support, myself and another user opposed. He has since been attempting to put it into the template anyway. The template listed only events and leaders. He feels every action taken, every law that is similar, every place etc should be included. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 13:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::::Do not remove my comments from this page. Admins decide what is not appropriate. You want to bring it here, then they should look at everything you did on the page, the whole issue you created, supporting the deletion, then in that failing attempting to bloat it and start conflicts. Direct violation of ]. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 13:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::You have removed my comments twice now from an official Misplaced Pages page, please cease your censorship actions. . And I am being accused of removing comments? --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 13:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

<small>Moved comment to relevant talk page, this is not the place.<font color="green"> ]</font><sup><i><font color="blue"><small>]</small></font></i></sup></small>

How is referring to the articles and their references not providing evidence? Clearly what this user wants is that I go to these articles copyedit the txt and refernces and place it on the talk page. However, he is old and wise enough to do that himself. His elaborate writings prove he is capable of reading himself and does not need me to copyedit the relevant text.<font color="green"> ]</font><sup><i><font color="blue"><small>]</small></font></i></sup> 13:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I ask that the enthousiastic and prolific writer keeps his requisaitor limited to the relevant talk page.<font color="green"> ]</font><sup><i><font color="blue"><small>]</small></font></i></sup> 13:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This is not an incident requiring administrator intervention. This is an ongoing content dispute and personal conflict requiring mediation, patience, and hot tea. In any case, the two of you simply yelling at each other does not need admin attention. ]]] ] 16:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:Someone should write a sitcom about you two (] and ]). You remind me of ], though I'm not saying which is which. '']'' 17:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::I would prefer to be Oscar. Sorry Nescio seems like you are Felix. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">]</span> ] 18:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

==] revisited==
I thought the Kven editor had been blocked indefinitely, but apparently he has not and is lately editing as {{vandal|WhatHaveWeHere}} and {{vandal|Hjalmar Berg}} (new additions to the several dozen of usernames he has used before). If the phrase "exhausting the community's patience" is supposed to have any meaning, I see no reason not to ban this user or at least block him indefinitely. ] 15:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

== Justforasecond ==

Could someone take a look at {{userlinks|Justforasecond}}, {{user|130.94.134.166}}, and {{user|84.178.238.68}}? JFAS was blocked for 3RR yesterday, and immediately, these two ips are reverting to JFAS's preferred versions on two different articles. I'm strongly biased so cannot give a proper analysis. --]] 15:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

==] blocks against ]==

While I know that another cases involving InShaneee has been brought here recently , I want some Admins to take a look at this one, the ] article talk page(and it is only a matter of time that the article will) is back to its spammed state after my announce of departure, which forced me to return. User:Neurobio is already calling to an 'invasion' of the genocide page using my departure. First by warning a user who is under probation, a probation which includes that article. , then contacting User:Lutherian asking the removal of a sourced information.

I request my talk page materials be undeleted and Administrators look over the rational behind InShaneee warnings for a block and finally the two blocks imposed against me by the same administrator.

The final warning for my first block was because for this edit , and then I was first blocked for 24 hours because of my answer of that warning by this .

For the second block (a block for 3 days), I recieved the warning after another user, Grandmaster, with who I was having a heated debate reported me because he was called POV pusher, so InShaneee warned me for a block which infuriated me and promped my answer. , as a result, InShaneee blocked me for 3 days. . Another administrator has found the rational behind the block shaky (I was not blocked for 36 hours but 3 days). InShaneee answered that the rational was that I made threats of more. . Which is not true as I have clarified in my update note , a note which was later deleted by InShaneee under the pretext that IRC materials should only be posted after an explicit permission by those involved even though he deleted just more than the quotes from the IRC. He also removed his name from my Farewell message , as well as warning again with a language which would have probably prompted a warning by himself had anyone used similar tone. .

Also, just a quick search in both Nagorno Karabakh and Nakhichevan article (the articles in which I and Grandmaster interacted most) reveals that Grandmaster who reported me because of accusation of POV pushing, has in various occasion leveled similar accusations of POV pushing himself. , , , , , , , , , which I have never reported, since it is understandble that in some heated discussions few abrasive words are used and that any users are free to edit them rather than reporting even though as much to be blamed because the other happens to be someone with who you disagree. And also in an answer to InShaneee first blocking I reported similar edits made by Grandmaster. which InShaneee ignored.

Also, while InShaneee has edited a content of my userpage under the pretext that to post such materials it takes consent, I wonder under which Misplaced Pages policies this goes. Because I have specifically maintained who made what statment, while InShaneee may have ground for his consent request, so does, I in my opinion, have the right clarifying what InShaneee had been saying about me in my back, which is simply untrue. Every members should be permitted to defend themselves against what they percieve as false charges, more importantly charges leveled on media's not directly available to the concerned, and if InShaneee had found my clarification not proper to be posted on a members talk page, InShaneee was a concerned party and should have in my opinion reported such behavior to another Administrator rather than deleting the entire sentence. ] ] 18:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:First of all, your block expired a week ago. Secondly, you already tried to bring this up on the mailing list as well as requesting an unblock, to which no one responded. Thirdly, what I removed consisted of an IRC chatlog and a . --] 18:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have the right to report an incident, and there are no policies retricting me on the basis that it is an incident dating about a Week ago, you should stick to policies. As for the mailing list, as far as I am aware of, no administrator agreed to the block, the only who even pied attention to the cases disagreed with you. Also, going around the IRC and making up reasons for the Block isen't also the proper conduct of an Administrator. Neither deleting ones talk page content, where the member is answering to false charges. And no, what you removed was not only chat log, to the contrary, most were not. You mostly deleted things which I myself wrote answering to the charges which you leveled against me justifying the block, charges which both of us knew to be untrue. Also, the thing you call personal attack is an opinion posted in my talk page, it is neither a heatlist, neither anything of that sort. I severly question your ability to administer, and say it again, and this was about what I have said there. It is not like I am posting that in an articles namespace, neither in a talk page, but rather an answer. On the other hand, you have restricted me to edit for 72 hours, something which you should apologise for. ] ] 18:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:::This page is for reporting incidents which require immediate administrator intervention, which this does not. --] 18:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

::::So according to you, reporting an Administrator abuses does not require immediate administrator intervention but calling someone POV pusher does?

:::::Unless the administrator is 'abusing their powers' at the moment, no. Otherwise, it's something for mediation or RfC. --] 18:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

::::::Actually you are. You just have given another warning where there was no warning content. ] ] 18:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:::::::That was a request, not a warning. And I'd consider comparing someone to a Neo-Nazi something that requires action. --] 18:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see any comparaison of a particular user with neo-nazi. TAT has texts specifically saying that Armenians are the lowest form of life. What do you expect an Armenian to answer. Eupator has answered without attacking any members, and you posted that message in his talk page. Stop distributing such warnings. ] ] 18:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Once again, warning someone not to call someone else a Neo-Nazi is more than justified, and I most certainly will continue warning, or blocking if neccisary, people who do so. You've been here repeatedly, the mailing list, your talk page, other people's talk page, and yet there is no wave of admins telling me that what I have been doing is wrong. If people don't like getting warned for being incivil, the answer is pretty simple: don't do it. Then, I swear to you, you won't hear a peep out of me. --] 23:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:A little note to Fadix from the top of this page, '''Please make your comments concise. Administrators are less likely to read long diatribes.'''. You might want to adjust your commentary accordingly. ] 18:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

::I just bolded what is most important. ] ] 18:42, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The original block looks like it was warranted to me; from what I can see, InShaneee never edited your user page so I'm not clear what you're talking about (unless you're referring to your talk page); and the most recent "abuse" you've reported appears to be InShaneee telling you not to violate ] because it's rude, which seems sensible to me. This thread doesn't seem to indicate there's an incident requiring administrator intervention. ]]] ] 18:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:I hope you haven't looked at the cases the same way as you have looked at what I was talking about (neo-nazi). InShaneee 'warning' about neo-nazi was to Eupator and not to me. As for your opinion concerning the original block, it is much clear that blocks on personal attacks are justified in clear cases of personal attack, not just some accusation of POV edits or telling someone that he was not reading what you were writting. InShanee clearly doesn't make the distinction between empty slanders and some abrasive words in a heated discussion.Also, you haven't said anything about the second block. ] ] 18:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

::I agree with Fadix that the blocks that was imposed on him by InShaneee might have been a bit harsh, eventhough he should indeed mind what he is saying, even when things get "hot" in discussions regarding controversial topics. It's ''very'' important always to be as polite as possible. I also agree that it's not nice that inaccurate reasons for blocking Fadix was mentioned on IRC, and I understand that Fadix is pretty upset about this. However, nothing good or constructive will come out of pursuing these issue anymore. As mentioned the block ended more than a week ago, and the best thing I believe would be for Fadix if he would just forget about the whole thing, and get back working on the articles where I and many other editors know that he makes a lot of much needed, very important and valuable contributions. Another thing is that I also believe it would help the situation if InShaneee would let other admins deal with any future issues involving Fadix. -- ] 20:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dr ]==

I would like to ask that this article's deletion is carefully reviewed by parties independent of those who nominated and deleted it or voted for its deletion. ] 19:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The article was properly deleted via ]. If our anonymous interlocutor wishes it undeleted he should follow the undeletion request process. ] 19:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

==]==

I would like to ask that this article's deletion is carefully reviewed by parties independent of those who nominated and deleted it or voted for its deletion. ] 19:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:Deleted through proper process. See ] if you wish to contest it. --] 19:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

==Rms125a back again==
Indefinitely blocked user {{vandal|Rms125a@hotmail.com}} is back as {{vandal|Stapletonian}}, and reverting the edits of his "enemies"/vandalizing pages . See for a long list of the wikistalking edits carried out by another of his anonymous IP addresses earlier today. Can an admin block urgently? ] 22:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:Indef-blocked. ''']''' (]) 08:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

*He is at it again as {{vandal|GlasgowMurphy}} - could an admin investigate. He is reverting pages in order to intimidate editors also the usual biggoted remarks. ] 16:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Rms 25a back again(again) ==

Seems this guy is up to his old tricks again. This time without hair.] 23:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:Anybody that makes edits like these does not deserve a second chance after been banned indefinitely. Definitely rms - one of his old favs. ] 23:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

And I'm not sure what to use on him either. Permblock, warnings, a stern email, a plea to other administrators, or just ignore him] 00:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:RMS has actually been indefinitely banned. Ultimately if a user wants to "reform" themselves and return under an anonoymous account and contribute positively thats their business but when they return and go back to their old vandalism ways and harrassing users by undoing their recent edits (often to previously vandalised versions) then additional bans are required. Their should be no surrender to vandalism, even if its just one user. Else we all ought to leave the project and do something better with our time. Misplaced Pages gets enough flak in the media, new ideas are needed to fight vandalism. Open editing equals open war. ] 14:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

==AlexPU==
I have no experience interacting with {{User|AlexPU}}, other than running into him today following the lifting of his one-month ban. He has been making disruptive comments in his edit summaries on Russia and personal attacks in a TfD discussion. An admin should at least give him a warning, reminding him of the minimum norms of civility on this site. ] | ] 23:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
: Oh, AlexPU insulting everybody... Yes, he just got back from a block (3/4 of it actually, since Alex Bakharev unblocked him if AlexPU would edit articles and not engage in personal attacks - I'll let the diffs speak themselves to judge if it's the case)
: Here is a sample of his vocabulary since he came back:
:* Telling a user to "get lost of his talk page"
:* Here, he suggests to de-sysop all admins voting keep on a TFD vote :
:* Here, he's attacking Russian wikipedians
:* Talking about "bullshit blanking" :

:And it's just a sample... -- ] <sup>]</sup> 23:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
==]==
this guy seems to have a history of uncivility, and also answered quite uncivily on my ] about a question in the ] article, calling me a "racist" and a "moron" about a query that i very honestly, politely, and curiously presented. ] 00:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:Don't even play around with these kinds of guys. You don't want to get sucked into thier games.] 00:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::A history of incivility is cause for immediate dismissal from Misplaced Pages's archives.] 00:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:I agree wholeheartedly on the matter of incivility. I have a family with two boys6 mos. and 2 years, and you're ''damn'' right I teach them civility!] 00:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

To user:JoeyRamoney you are not a racist and a moron. All of us at Misplaced Pages are doing our part, yourself included. For this, I applaud you.] 00:35, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

: The four above users plus John Pairseenthbaeu above are confirmed socks via a checkuser ] done in IRC and they are all blocked. Thanks ] ] 00:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::Oh bother. Thanks for noting that here, I have wasted some small effort. ]<sup>]</sup> 14:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Getting rid of Germany? ==

Don't you think this block is a bit long: "14:32, 30 June 2006 InShaneee blocked "84.190.0.0/17 (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (vandalism through possible open IP)". It actually blocks ], by wide margin the most popular internet provider in Germany, and seems to block larger parts of Germany. I already know of several trusted German wikipedians who are not able to edit on en: anymore. -- ] 00:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:The block has been lifted. However, such actions really need to be addressed. At least, if there are problems with quickly-changing IPs, the IP range should be investigated to see who it is allocated to and the block, if necessary, should be limited to a shorter timeframe than a week. In this case, presumably a few hours would even have been sufficient. ] 00:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I would recommend lifting the block. Because you ''know'' what can happen when Germans get mad. And how bout lifting that edit summary "Getting rid of Germany". It sounds like some sort of reverse racist board.] 00:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::]? Or has that become obsolete? ] 01:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

"you ''know'' what can happen when Germans get mad."

They get angry?] 01:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

they produce ]? ] <small>]</small> 01:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I lifted this earlier and informed InShaneee of the lift. I guess he'll tidy up and block the specific IPs that he wanted to block again. Rob Church has said that this shouldn't be technically possible, and I believe is looking into preventing Mediawiki from allowing such blocks in future. Moral of the story, I guess, is that you need to understand the implications of blocks before doing them, especially when involving ranges. ] 02:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

: We really need to fix blocking so that registered users aren't normally blocked by IP blocks. This is an ongoing headache. --] 06:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::Agreed, except that that has its own headache (and I say this as an "AOL user," even though I'm not on AOL). If we do that, our ability to stop vandals who merely register a new account name every few minutes will be shot to hell. <shrug> Yet another case where the ] turns out to be in charge of the world. ] 11:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::obviously, it should be impossible to create new accounts from the blocked range. Instead, some sort of "request for account creation" should pop up. I know this is all impeding to the wiki principle, but hey, we have 1.2 million articles to protect here. We'll need more and more finely honed blocking tools over time, such as the ability to block certain IP ranges from certain articles only ("surgical protection") ] <small>]</small> 14:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Crap alive, my apologies to everyone that had to clean this up. I discussed this a bit in the admin IRC channel before hand, but I guest the real moral is that I should do some serious IP backtracking before rangeblocking. Again, this was entirely my mistake, and it won't happen again. --] 18:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Sunholm and scales ==

I am requesting the assistance of some other admin to help resolve a dispute with {{user|Sunholm}}. Recently, the ] on {{tl|POV}} and related templates was changed to an ]. On the ], 11 users and one anon have expressed support for this change. Prior to this afternoon, 2 users had expressed opposition. Despite this Sunholm had reverted to the stop hand 3 times over 2 days. I told Sunholm that concensus existed at the talk page for changing the image and told him to quit edit warring. At which point he added a message to the talk page saying "Stop hand.svg is far better. It's a warning template, after all" and reverted again.

At this point, I blocked him for 3 hours for edit warring and POINT. (Keep in mind that the back and forth over the image was occuring across multiple POV oriented templates). Following the block expiry he immediately reverted again, with no further comment (this time also breaching 3RR).

This editor, previously known as {{User|Sunfazer}}, seems to have a history of fighting over templates (see contribs in Template space). In addition, he is presently engaged in edit wars over {{tl|peerreview}} and {{tl|Misplaced Pages is Communism}} that are unrelated to the stop hand issue.

However, I feel my neutrality is compromised by having expressed opinions favoring the scales image. Arguably, I should not have even issued the block that I did, though I feel Sunholm's behavior is out-of-bounds and is exacerbated by his unresponsiveness. I apologize for not seeking a neutral party sooner, and would appreciate it if someone else would take a look at this issue. ] 01:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I have issued a 24-hour 3RR block on Sunholm; along with it I'll note that while you haven't exceeded 3RR that I can see, DF, you're coming closer in a sterile edit war like that than I'd like to see. &mdash;] (]) 01:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::I agree, which is one reason why I would like to distance myself from this issue. ] 02:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Actually, ] Sunholm for 48 hours on this issue. -- ] 05:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

==Plagerism==
Hello,I hope I am doing this correctly. I need help with a problem Jesster79 began building an episode list for In the Heat of the Night recently.I thought it was great until I recognized the material as being from tv.com (formerly TVTome).
If it was a little I wouldn't complain, but it's a lot.
This is the evidence, it is quite lengthy.Please pardon the sloppiness as I was pressed for time while doing it.

Our conversation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Jesster79

Note that while he says he is using his own words he has really just changed,re-arranged or
added words to the material at tv.com(formerly tvtome)which has existed since 2000-1

This is a cut and paste comparing Jesster79's work (summaries and trivia) with that of tv.com.

This can be verified through the links for the episode list at both sites.

TV.COM Episode List -
http://www.tv.com/in-the-heat-of-the-night/show/656/episode_listings.html

Wiki Episode List: http://en.wikipedia.org/In_the_Heat_of_the_Night_episodes

Also please see Jesster's Contributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&target=Jesster79

This really tells the story.Look how quickly the work was done.He just cut, pasted and slightly altered.

Note:At tv.com the notes and trivia appear below the summary.] 03:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The evidence can be found on my user page as it was apparently to long] 03:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I can't see anything wrong with ] - theres not really a lot that can differ in a list of episodes, but the date formats in that article are different to the ones on tv.com. As for the episode articles theirselves, they don't look copied to me (although some might be based on the tv.com descriptions - it should probably be cited as a reference) but I'm no experienced copyvio spotter. ] <sub><font color="green">// bornhj</font> ]</sub> 05:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the synopsis at tv.com and in some cases he has barely changed anything.The date format is not what I'm talking about.Synopsis on episode guides are usually vary greatly.The story is the same but the wording is different.Please look at the comparison here titled Evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/User:California12] 05:34, 2 July 2006
(UTC)

This matter has been resolved, the person has removed the material in question.] 01:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

Could admin investigate ] and ]? The reason is these two ID edits samething in article ], and ], also some of edits are disruptive edits. and Be aware on ], because this ID also edits in disruptive way. OK, Let's me explain about these problems. First I don't know ] is. He still made personal attack. See this is an evidence. ], {{user2|ForestH2}}. But He first apologized me for sending me message so much and made personal attack. when I put some questions on article's discussion's page, He also asks me everything that I did on Misplaced Pages. I personally don't care of him. He just bothers me. Could any admin help me on that? First I discussed this problem with ]. ] 03:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:...Who whistles a merry tune and runs to get fitted for a straightjacket whenever topics involving Daniel5127 or ForestH2 come up. I've yet to get a cogent response from either of them on any topic. &mdash;] (]) 04:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::See ] -- ] <small>]</small> 06:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::While I'm still here, I'd like to point out ], about I made for a redlinked RFCU. ] 14:38, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::::Uh, I don't have time to reply soon but I will leave a quick message since I'm on a trip. The edits on Gregory Goyle are not disruptive. There taken from what J.K Rowling says in the 6th Harry Potter book. I know GrasslandT- he and me both think were making correct edits here and I don't know the last time I made an attack on Daniel. I am going to tell him about Gregory Goyle edits. Have any of you read the book? Check one of the last chapters and see what I keep reverting? And how does GrasslandT edit in a disruptive way? All he does is edit Gregory Goyle in the correct way. I've had enough of this. This is a very stupid conversation to be having. My edits are correct, proof is in the book. And I haven't bothered Daniel since I talked with Bunchofgrapes. I've talked with Daniel about this and I'm going to talk with him more. Hopefully some one's read the Half-Blood Prince so they can see that I'm the right one and that this is a stupid conversation to be having. I'm going to leave a note on Daniel's page and Bunchofgrapes page. Sorry if I don't reply fast- I'm away on busniess. ] | ] | ] | ] | ] | ] 18:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Administrator Abuse ==



I feel like I was mistreated and humiliated by administrator (])
He warned me not to use aggressive and uncivil language but he himself did it before blocking me.
Such as:

` :::I will warn you one last time to keep your tone civil and not to make accusations. Also, you are not 'allowed' anything. If I see evidence that you are doing ANY blind reverts to circumvent consensus, no matter what the number, you will be blocked for purposeful disruption. --] 20:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC) `

Please refer to my talk page to see it.

This message was posted after I , as a proud wikipedian as any of you , stated that according to Wiki Rules I can revert an article 3 times a day. And then he quoted : Also, you are not "allowed" anything.

Then for a discussion in the talk page I was blocked. It can be read from the link :

I accept that my language is harsh and heated. However, if any of you regard to the discussed page, you can clearly reach more uncivil language ( even and especially in the Archives regarding user Fadix. )
so I feel that I was mistreated in this case.

Also, I did not clearly attack anyone, while I was blocked for personal attacks, what I did was to defend my point in a case which another user clearly (to my opinion) missed a point. If all of my posts are read, you will see that I am more or less a legal user. I may have crossed the line for a couple of times but this does not require a block or humiliation.

Furthermore, I admit that I am a new user, but if you refer again to my talk page, you can see the post by the same admin :

"please do not add commentary and your personal analysis of an article into Misplaced Pages articles. Doing so violates Misplaced Pages's ] policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, use the ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:Comment2 (second level warning) --> --] 17:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)"

This is the first warning I get. I know how to edit articles. I know how to use Wiki at that level. But he tries to humiliate me by referring to "sandbox". Also it is interesting to note that eventhough this was supposed to be my first warning, it is ferocious. It is angry, and the warning is not a friendly one.

Also , I thought before being blocked by this admin. I was allowed to be bold in editing, I learned that as a major principle of wikipeida. But now I see that principles work under the tyranny of some admins. Please do not ban me for this too. I am afraid now, I feel suppressed.

I checked the talk page of this admin to see that he is very infamous for his repeated blocking of others too.

If becoming an admin justifies this kind of power in Misplaced Pages, I do not consider Wiki as a communal organization, which favors its citizens rights.

I hope you wont tell me that I am not allowed anything too, like a prisoner guard.

You guys are not that kind of people right ?

sincerely

ps : In case it gets archived I would like to post the te last two messages this admin has got :

Cculber007

Hi InShaneee!

I spoke with Cculber007 via email and he pledged not to make any threats or personal attacks on the wiki anymore if he is unblocked. I was thus thinking it would be a good idea to give him a second chance; he may very well one day become a valuable contributor. What do you think? -- Where 22:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

84.190.0.0/17

Hey. You blocked this last night. Now I nominated you for adminship so I know you're a good user, but please read up on blocking-related stuff. Your block was in good faith, but you actually blocked half of Germany. ;) I've undone it, so you may want to look at the IPs you wanted to block with it. :p Esteffect 00:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

That said, I think you inadvertently discovered a Mediawiki vulnerability. Some developers are saying your block shouldn't have even been possible due to the effects it can have. Esteffect 00:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


END OF MESSAGES
--] 05:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC(

: Note that exactly who said what in the above is rather confusing. The history and the signatures don't quite seem to line up. Some edits are by the anon {{user|128.211.201.37}} --] 06:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:: Summary: ''If other people are rude, I am allowed to be rude too. I have enforceable rights, including the right to three reverts a day. I think perfectly reasonable warnings are "ferocious" and "angry".''
::The warnings were for leaping straight into the ] article and claiming that it's a hoax, and the 24 hour block was for personal attacks - , I assume. Both seem reasonable to me. Sensitive little flowers shouldn't get mixed up with holocaust denial, or they will get their feelings hurt. --] (]) 07:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::hah, I think it is self-evident that "do not bite the newbies" does not extend to socks, trolls and angry holocaust-deniers :) ] <small>]</small> 14:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::::Should be blocked for its own good to prevent further instances of abuse directed against its "harmless" holocaust denial. ] 15:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::Anyone else notice that these were posted from an IP while he was blocked? --] 18:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
The two messages up there by me are from InShaneee's talk page, and I'm not involved in this dispute. :/ ] 14:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I think personally that the guy is a sock, but for the sake of assuming good faith, I will pretend he is not. And here, my opinion has nothing to do with me having something against InShaneee. Supposing that Sokrateskerem is a new user, he should have known for how long he was blocked(InShaneee should have told him), new users generally don't know how to check their block log to know for how long they have been blocked, InShaneee told him he was blocked, but not much more information as to when he could edit back again(unless I have missed something). We don't need 'administration' in the Armenian genocide page, for warning members for personal attacks, this in my opinion is unimportant, any users can edit a personal attack. Francis and other users were doing a great job editing them in the past. I will not go as far as to say that InShaneee decision to moderate the genocide page was to limit the damages after he realised what would happen if I am not there. For what we need administrator there, is to track possible socks (and they abound) and requesting checkusers, we need administrator to delete irrelevencies which have nothing to do with the article. We need administration to remind people what is NPOV. Those things directly affect the quality of the article. I don't think anyone was really offended by Sokrateskerem, of course before he posted the remark about InShaneee IQ, but this could have been prevented, by just removing personal attacks from the articles talk page. ] ] 17:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::I completely agree with you. However, I wasn't initially warning him as an administrator, obviously, since as you stated, this is not an action strictly relegated to administrators. Since I'd seen a lot of troublesome editing coming from there in the past, I simply wanted to step in and see if I could help stem the tide. It was only when he continued past being warned that I took action as an admin. --] 18:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

]? Is that you?] 18:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt it, he doesn't have the same style. But Serdar did indeed register an account here on Misplaced Pages to remove the connection between his true name and his nom de plume. He most certainly is still contributing under another pseudonym or an open proxy. For Sokrateskerem, it is hard to tell if he is someone else, I feal it, but since I don't have evidences, I will have to 'pretend' assuming good faith. ] ] 19:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::<big><big>'''''YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THREE REVERTS PER ARTICLE PER DAY'''''</BIG></big>. 3RR is a safeguard, not a right. ] ] 02:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

<span class="plainlinks">] (] • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font> • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font>)</span> has a history of making edits to TV station articles which are rejected as inaccurate or unsourced by other editors on those articles. He has not replied to numerous messages on his Talk page, or replied to ]. I left a warning that if he continued to edit against consensus and not engage in Talk I would block him for disruption. He continued, so I have blocked him indefinitely until such time as he starts engaging in Talk. Any admin should feel free to unblock him as soon as he shows some signs of responding to comments and criticisms. ] 11:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you for doing this. --] ] 00:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

==Is someone sabotaging my account?==
Either the watchlist function is malfunctioning or someone has been hacking into my account. There are a number of entries on my list which I did not put there. Most of them are gibberish: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], and ]. Another, ], shows demonstrable intelligence. More suspicious is the fact that ] and ], who do not even exist, have shown up on my list, as well as ], who was created only today (July 2, 2006). If I appear to flip out or vandalize a bunch of articles, someone has simply taken over my account. Otherwise, they have only been able to access my watchlist functioning. I do not know who to ask about assistance in this matter. If you do, please inform me. --] 15:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:Change your password (I think you can do that) ] 16:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::Tony Sidaway explained to me that most of these are probably due to vandal moves, but this does not explain the user pages to my satisfaction, particularly Thames, who was created a couple of hours ago. Can someone look into those? --] 16:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::I don't think a password change is needed at this point. It would appear to be some exploit of the watchlist rather than a general takeover, if it can't be explained otherwise. --] 16:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I would change it anyway, just to be safe (can't be too careful). ] 16:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:User pages are like any other page, and can be moved to and added to your watchlist the same way. Also, if a User talk: page is moved, the associated User: page gets added to your watchlist. ] 16:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::Also, why aren't there records of any of these moves, if that's what they were? Shouldn't there be a function to delete auto-watchlist additions if the pages themselves are deleted for vandalism? --] 16:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::There is a record, but you can't see the deleted edits if you are not an admin. If you could see the deleted edit, it would tell you which page was moved there, and you could find the move listed in the history of that source article. ] 16:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

] is a deleted redirect to ] (a leftover from some pagemove vandalism), hence why that weird userpage name is in your watchlist. I haven't investigated the rest of them but I think they can all be explained in exactly the same way. I wouldn't be worried at all. --] 16:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:Is it possible for you to see what move was relevant to ]? It seems that he used to be a contributor, as his signature exists on a number of pages, but his contributions and logs are gone, as if merged to another user. The fact that this user was (re)created a matter of a couple hours ago is what mainly set my alarm bells off. --] 16:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::This might be helpful: --]] 16:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks. I was looking at . But I'm still not seeing anything that looks familiar, so I don't know why he was there. I did have Bishonen on my watchlist though. Does Thames go by another name now, where he has his talk and contributions located? --] 16:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::You may have chatted with Thames many many months ago, hence it is on your watchlist. None of us remember everyone we have ever interacted with. If a user wants their page deleted, we shouldn't go about revealing all the details about who they are and so forth unless they want us to do so. ] 17:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::::TJive, not to worry. Most of those entries are there due to your having my page and talk page on your watchlist. When vandals move them to new article titles they get added to your watchlist. I think you'll find most of the mystery entries in the edit histories, , . No good deed goes unpunished. Cheers, -] 17:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::::Haha, ironically I had not considered your pages. --] 17:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::This may also be helpful: . ] 17:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ah! I had posted a comment to his talk page months ago, and it was since merged into Perceval's. Also, it appears that was the vandal that caused both of the other users. Several misunderstandings at once created a bad impression, but it's cleared up now. Thanks all. --] 17:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::::Good, now we can abandon this thread and get back to work. This link ] may be helpful. ] 17:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== ] deleting AfD notices and moving pages while AfD is in progress ==

User has deleted 2 afd notices:
. and procceded to move the pages while they were under AfD. User has a history of violating wiki procedures, is argumentative, has a prior complaint filed against him above ], and is exhausting the community's patience. He has flooded the ] page with pages and pages of copy/pasted text, and despite continuous advice to heed wiki policies on reliable sources and original research, doesn't seem to take the advice to heart . I hae ceased to edit war with him, but despite repeated cirticism from other editors about the veracity of his claims and the methods and accuracy of his research (browse the last few comments on or on his talk page, and a request for mediation in progress, ], he has continued to edit the page in question and has spread his misinformation to the ] page.

Administrators may in special instantces ], but the same does not apply to editors and I amd tired of his belligerence. --] 16:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I replaced the tag on ] and warned him. --]<sup>]</sup> 16:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Block of Alienus by Will Beback for 3 days ==

We've had issues in the past with blocks of Alienus being lifted without sufficient consensus first. {{admin|Will Beback}} has blocked {{vandal|Alienus}} for three days for recurring personal attacks. Although there was a particular incident that caused Will to review, Will states on Alienus's talk page that the block is for a pattern evident in his interactions, not a specific incident. In response to an {{tl|unblock}} I have reviewed and I concur with the block. Some back and forth has occurred in which I'm accused of not being impartial, along with some possible mischaracterisation of past events surrounding previous blocks. I think further review by other editors may be warranted. I would ask again that consensus be reached here before any blocks are overturned. (note use of the vandal template here is just because it gives the blocklog easily and I don't recall another one off hand, no assertion of vandalism is specifically intended in this case) ] 17:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I see no reason for this block not to remain in place. Looking at the history, there certainly seems to be a pattern of incivil behaviour. Alienus, please take some time out, and come back with a new resolve to get along with other editors. -- ] ] 17:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::I second that. We've been down this road before, and there's no reason Alienus can't try to be a little more polite. --] 18:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Since Alienus has continued to abuse his user talk page to propagate his personal attacks even while blocked, I've requested that the page be protected. .

::: The ] mailing list is operational and he can argue his case there. --] 22:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the block is ridiculous. Calling someone an "edit warrior" gets you blocked for three days? Bizarre. He is being held to impossibly high standards, and is practically being stalked by some, who appear ready and eager to pounce at the slightest infraction. ] 19:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:You sound just like Alienus. Will made it quite clear that it is the pattern of incivility, not that one incident that resulted in the block. Alienus's constant pattern of incivility and then claims that the rest of the project just isn't assuming good faith at his behavior was likely to exhaust the patience of the community sooner or later. As for the conspiracy against him, yes, there is a conspiracy here against uncivil users, and he is one of them. ] | ] 20:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::That one incident ''is'' what resulted in the block. Yes, context was also cited, but not explicitly - it's all rather vague. There are a number of warnings and overturned blocks for trivial or nonexistant offences on his talk page. Not much substance there, just a lot of hot air.
::I sound just like Alienus? What's that supposed to mean? Is that a ] personal attack?
::Considering you and Lar were recently involved in an altercation with Alienus, no wonder this appears to be personal. Your posting here to vehemently defend a ridiculous block certainly affirms such an impression.
::You say you are against users whom you consider uncivil (rather than incivility itself), and that Alienus is one of those users. Therefore any infraction, no matter how slight, should be used to get rid of him. That is what is happening here. ] 22:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Just keep breathing that paranoia gas. You'll be fine. ] | ] 22:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::::Case in point. That's quite insulting. And you are an admin, no? ] 22:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::Don't like my behavior? You are welcome to lodge a complaint. ] | ] 23:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just as a note: ] redirects to ]. People should really start using the latter to avoid that kinds of conflict. --] ] 20:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:''I've posted this here as well as Al's talk page as it summarizes how I feel about the current situation.''

::I have had worse said to me by others and have put it down to a learning experience. I also have been effectively bullied by other editors who seemed invisible to the admins. The warnings by Tony Sidaway are worthless as he has nothing short of wikistalked Al and made it his personal task to sort him out. He also called Al an "edit warrior" without getting so much as a slap on the wrist. I hate to go down the same route as Al but I have not been impressed with the conduct of any of the the admins that have so far commented on the block. From previous experience none of them have shown the impartiality or clear thinking necessary to fullfil this role in a just manner. They exacerbate situations also - but this is much more worrying as they should be examples of conduct as admins. Al is an easy target as he does say the wrong thing sometimes and has upset some powerful admins by disagreeing with them on their pet topics. I avoid conflict where I possibly can but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this is just giving in to the "playground bullies" and a bit of digging my heels in on controversial subjects would help to remove some of the ] that is so prevalent. Al works on the sort of subjects that get heated and to be honest the level of comment I've seen is nicer than your average political party spat. As long as it doesn't get completly out of hand a bit of "growing up" on the part of some editors wouldn't go amiss. We make a big thing of the fact that Misplaced Pages isn't censored for minors and then get all squeamish about words like "edit warrior". ] 20:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::We are talking about an editor here whose favourite thing is to point out how people are hypocrites, yet he is one himself. Its the hypocrrite calling the hypocrite a hypocrite, which is not terribly original. Admins are not perfect, and nowhere is that a requirement of the job or is that claimed, however, they have been around long enough to show that they make logical decisions most of the time. If they don't, so what? If their judgement is terribly off, the community will correct it and that is the exact same for regular editors. I am really sick of the us vs. them mentality being shown here. Of course the inmates in a prison claim they are all innocent and the victims of a conspiracy and that the guards are abusing them. Never mind most of them are guilty as sin. As for "I have not been impressed with the conduct of any of the the admins that have so far commented on the block." Please show me where ] has done anything questionable.] | ] 21:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone could have said it better than Sophia. There is a pattern of incivility here, that's true. But that pattern appears to be that Admins can say whatever they want and nothing is done. When an outspoken editor says one little thing that an Admin (who already has something against the editor) doesn't like, wham! Slapped with a big ol' BLOCK. This has been going on long enough, and it is about time that people start to speak up! Until recently, I, like Sophia, tried to avoid conflict. But right now, I just can't imagine letting this go. If Misplaced Pages is going to be worth anything in another few months, trigger-happy Admins ''must'' be curbed. We need more people to tell it like it is, and Alienus is being punished repeatedly for doing just that. In the past couple of weeks, my impression of Misplaced Pages's Administrators has been going seriously downhill. I ''really'' wish that someone could show me that it doesn't have to be this way, but this has not happened yet. And I am beginning to think that it never will. There are serious problems here, and one editor who sometimes gets himself into heated situations is ''nothing'' compared to the bigger picture. These problems really need to be addressed, before we lose our best editors. Please, get off your high horses and start acting like we are all equal human beings. ]]] <small>]]</small> 21:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

And, Pschemp, thank you so much for proving our point. Comparing lowly editors to prison inmates is just fabulous. ]]] <small>]]</small> 21:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:My analogy is quite obvious for editors who don't follow the rules repeatedly, not the ones who behave. Oh noes! trigger happy admins! Oh the horror! I'm sorry but wikipedia will be the sum of human knowledge, which means that somewhere, someone else has the same knowledge as you, so I don't buy the "we are going to run off our best editors" shtick. If only one person knows something, it isn't verifiable anyway, and certainly not published. We shouldn't run off good editors, but no one here is irreplacable. ] | ] 21:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::Pschemp's apparent lack of concern for editors is somewhat disturbing. We are all volunteers here. We give our time freely to help build a great encyclopedia, and without us, there would be no Misplaced Pages. Abusing us is, in the end, only going to hurt the project. Exhibiting a disregard for issues of justice, as well as viewing editors as nothing more than knowledge-producing machines is quite troubling as well, especially coming from an Administrator who is supposed to be setting an example that the rest of us can follow. Editors, especially good ones, are valuable because they make decisions, they use their judgement to decide what knowledge should go into an article, and what should be left out. They avoid inserting POV, and they attempt to curb POV pushers who would only twist or censor an article. It seems to be these editors who often are most heavily targeted by Admins, particularly the trigger-happy, apathetic ones. I find it sad that certain Admins would exhibit inflamatory, uncivil, rude, and unsympathetic tendancies when their motives are questioned. It's true that we all make mistakes. It is a virtue, however, to be able to admit to such errors in a civil manner. I simply don't see this happening here. ]]] <small>]]</small> 22:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Could you point out to me for which of Alienus's most recent 9 blocks he admitted making an error? I can't seem to find that. ] 22:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::::Could you point out to me where I said that he had? I can't seem to find it, nor do I remember having typed it. ]]] <small>]]</small> 22:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::Since the logic of Nandesuka's comment seems to have escaped you, let me spell it out. I'm quite sure he is refering to your suggestion that "It is a virtue, however, to be able to admit to such errors in a civil manner." and pointing out that Alienus has never done this.] | ] 22:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::::::My comment was made in reference to certain Admins; I wasn't talking about Alienus and thus Nandesuka's statement was irrelevant. But, since you are all so quick to point your fingers, let me show you one instance in which he has admitted error and offered an apology . Would you like more, or are you done with the baiting and hypocritical finger-pointing? ]]] <small>]]</small> 22:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is loosing good people all the time - they leave or disengage from particular articles because of an increasingly uncivil enviornment, or they determine to stay and "fight it out," adopting a hostile approach, and reinforcing the vicious cycle. Constant low-grade incivility is corrosive, and it is disruptive. If we let it continue, we end up with an enviornment where it is the norm. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:I agree with you completely. As leaders, I think Admins should be the first to be cited for incivility, even if that means that their powers get taken away. They are supposed to be setting an example, and they so far seem to be setting a bad one. ]]] <small>]]</small> 22:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Why don't you tell us why Alienus's behaviour doesn't deserve a block instead of screaming about admin abuse? His behaviour is the real topic here, and I've yet to see it defended. ] | ] 22:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::So if Alienus were an admin you'd say he needed to be blocked? or just de-sysoped? I support the block, if that wasn't clear. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that those people concerned with Alienus' approach to editing open an RfC or ArbCom case. This block/unblock cycle is neither fair to the user nor helpful to the project. ] 22:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem with trigger happy admins is that they are more likely to pull the trigger on people they disagree with, or have personal issues with. This block is such a case. ] 22:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:fiddlesticks. Alienus has been warned about behaviour like this ] and this ] neither of which, I note, involve any of the admins involved in warning him in the past, in fact GTBacchus was one of his defenders in the past. You're being quite disingenious trying to paint this as some sort of big bad admin conspiracy. The guy is uncivil, he's been warned, he's not stopping and I think it's time that you all (James and Romarin) stopped too because you're way off the mark. '''<font color="green">]</font>]''']: ]/] 22:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::Come now Lar, admin-baiting is a delightful sport for the whole family! Seriously, though, we've got to stop acting as though there's ever an excuse for incivility. I support Will's block. ] ] 23:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

::Lar, regarding the posts you cite, the first is obviously a joke. And in the second, GTBacchus calls Alienus a dick! And you have the nerve to call me disingenious (see ]). It seems any accusation will do, no matter how insubstantial. Throw enough mud and some of it is sure to stick. And please refrain from invoking the word conspiracy, as it is usually used pejoratively to tar opponents as tin foil hat wearing loons. Ie: It's a personal attack. ] 23:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Conspiracy! Paranoia! Admin Abuse! Personal attack! ] | ] 23:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, pschemp. This is precisely what I'm talking about. Admins can't even control themselves while discussing a case of alleged incivility! And yet Alienus gets blocked for three days for referring to someone as an "edit warrior"?! It's ridiculous. But it goes to show: editors that are disliked are held to impossibly high standards, while admins can hurl insults with immunity.

Case in point: pschemp me above, then me to try to do something about it. Not a pretty picture I'm afraid. ] 23:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:Nonsense begets nonsense. ] | ] 23:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::What is nonesense is that a user got blocked for three days for calling someone an "edit warrior". ] 01:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Red beams go quietly to visa giant LEGO cats. ] | ] 02:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Without commenting on the blocks in question, I'd like to '''''again''''' encourage all administrators to attempt to set an example of civil behavior. - ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 03:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Let sensation lewis beauty check design in fan spray. ] | ] 04:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

::Al and I have clashed in the past &mdash; like others he disageed with I was accused of having a bias for trying to achieve NPOV. (One of Al's inabilities is to understand that his edits are can be less neutral than he himself thinks. But then we all have that failing in some form or other. It can be a particular problem with Al.) I agreed with him however (much to Al's shock!) that Tony's behaviour towards him was prevocative and unnecessarily confrontational. Al can be tactless, while believing that he is being tactful, and provocative while believing that he is being the exact opposite. In this case, having read the comments that led to the block, my reaction is to think that, taken in isolation, they would not warrant a block. However taken in the context of numerous other comments over a long period, and past warnings to stop, a block is understandable. He does push it a bit and a block, unfortunately, was in my opinion only a matter of time. I would hope that Al might get the message and reign in his tendency to preach and judge. We all do it from time to time (I'm waving both hands in the air at this stage. I know I do it). Al tends to be his own worst enemy. There is however a distinction between someone trying to provoke and offend for negative reasons, and those who do it out of a genuine and well motivated belief that they are doing the "right thing". Al is IMHO one of the latter. He needs to ease off on the attack comments. If he does this block, I hope, will be a once-off and not something constantly to be repeated. ]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 04:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
:::It is much too late for this to be a "once-off". This is the user's tenth block, the previous blocks having been caused by personal attacks, incivility, or edit warring. -] 04:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I wasn't aware of the scale of that. That puts a different complexion in things. I created a template recently that covers a user with multiple blocks called {{tl|blocknumbers}}. In it admins can fill out details of the number of past blocks and warnings a user has, the length of the most recent block and an explanation of the general context if required. It can be placed on the page of someone who is being blocked regularly so that other admins, in dealing with their behaviour, knows at a glance the stats, rather than having to go through their talk page and archives to see what their past behaviour was like. Perhaps you should put the template on Al's talk page so that the context is clear for everyone to see. It also has had the benefit of bringing home to perpetual offenders who may be in denial as to their behaviour just how many warnings and blocks they have received.]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 04:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Please review Al's blocks and you will see that the case is not as clear as Will Beback would have it. Also ]'s prison analogy is far more worrying that he realises - see read the ] to see how the situation we have here can go very very wrong. The truth is that admins are ''very'' reluctant to block each other and unpopular editors get blocks for the same actions that admins cheerfully get away with (see my previous post). If you protest your block you are a labeled a trouble maker or accused of making PA's by effectively calling the admins incompetent and I have seen Al's blocks increased in this way. Too much trouble comes from people being "trigger happy" about what is written. One person's offense is anothers wierd sense of humour/reaction to stress. This is an international project and all the time I see underestimated how cultural differences affect the way we approach situations. I'm British so I'm very good at being polite and queuing for my turn to edit 8-). I personally find some US editors "full on" and almost aggressively direct but I have also met many Americans in person who come across the same way. However it is just their manner, their hearts are in the right place and as long as you stick to the facts and sources you should be able to work together. If the integrity of the encyclopedia is most important what we should be looking at here is whether Al was adding to it when he was accused of "edit warring" or whether he was disrupting it. I have not agreed with him on everything but I have never had a problem with him. In fact I'm able to work with several "problem" editors just by not rising to the bait and sticking to what the verifiable sources have to say on a subject.

Now his talk page is protected which is ridiculous especially as it looks from the history as if one admin added a comment by bypassing the protection giving Al no chance to respond . If you repeatedly treat someone unfairly you are going to see a "pattern" of them resisting the system. I have been fully convinced that the last few blocks were intended to create an impressive history so as to work towards removing him and have seen nothing here yet to disuade me of that position. As for the juvenile comments by some admins above - what can I say other than that they no show empathy or understanding of the current situation and should be given LEGO blocks instead of admin tools. ]

== Repeated removal of cleanup tags, blanking of talk page and general refusal to discuss ==
{{user|ZMAN}} persists in removing cleanup tags from ] (which BTW, is in dire need of assistance). ZMAN has also repeatedly blanked the talk page ], removing discussion between myself and {{user|Derek Balsam}} about possible copyright violations on the page. So far ZMAN has not disussed his/her actions at all, despite repeated requests. ZMAN has also blanked his/her own user talk page and , ignoring recent requests for discussion and warnings about copyright. ] ≠ ] 19:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== Vandalism to ] page, moved here at other users advice ==
'''Note moved here per '''

{{vandal|Matyldalondyn}} and {{IPvandal|87.227.28.6}}
Users, who are likely the same person persistently re-add deleted dubious trivia from the ] after being asked for sources to verify a trivia piece about the subjects singing of national anthem before game. Said users edits are seen here.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
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*
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Other users have identified said trivia as dubious as well and have deleted. Only to have it re-added by the said users. Other deletions are seen here.
*
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Users have been asked for sources to verify information, neither have provided, leaving me to believe that they're only editing for the sake of inserting vandalism. Their contribution history clearly affirms this.
, . I thank you in advance for helping to deal with this persistent inclusion of dubious and unsourced vandalism. ] 18:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:He's been blocked already. ''']''' ]|] 23:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, blocked after violating 3RR, which took place after I posted my complaint here. ] 23:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

Same old story, students from the school are adding nicknames of the headteacher, photographs of penises drawn in snow outside the school and other nonsense to the article, claiming they have a right seeing as they go to the school. It's in my watchlist so reverting vandalism isn't a problem however I have a personal interest in keeping the article clear of rubbish aside from the norm. Would a couple of others mind watchlisting it for future vandalism please? -- ]<font color="green">]</font>] ] 00:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== Vandalism Not To Be Tolerated ==

Why in the world do we allow vandalism to go unchecked on the ] page but not the ] page? Any thoughts?] 00:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

:]. It appears that there is no vandalism on the article as of this note, and when there was vandalism, it appears to be consistently reverted. If you have specific concerns, preferably including diffs that show our lack of concern, we'd appreciate being able to review them. Thank you for your input! <b><i><font color="#FF00FF">~Kylu (]|]) </font></i></b> 01:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
*because that's not how you spell ]?--] 01:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)<!--edit conflict-->

== Werdnabot Archival of this page. ==

As you may have noticed, I just added Werdnabot archival of this page, as CrypticBot is currently MIA. This was per a request on ]. I just ran an emergency job to clear this page out, and I'm pleased to inform you that the archival removed 55 sections with no posts in three days; a total of 108kb. Hopefully, this should clear out the page. Please note that I'm working on having the archive number automatically incremented, and this will be sorted shortly. ] ] 01:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
:Thank you Werdna for responding to the request! ] 01:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
::Exceptional. Thanks Werdna -- ] <small>]</small> 03:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== Jeb berkeley ==

There's a vandal going around named Jeb berkeley, or some variation of that. Here are some of his sockpuppets:

{{vandal|Jeb berkeley}}<br>
{{vandal|That Jeb Berkeley guy}}<br>
{{vandal|Jeb Berkeley on wheels!}}<br>

There's more in the ]. If someone could do something, that would be appreciated, since he seems to be targeting me and my subpages. --] <sub>]</sub> 02:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

'''Update''': I believe they all stem from banned user {{user|Jeb Berkeley}}. --] <sub>]</sub> 02:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. See also:

:{{vandal|Jeb Berkeley on the railway}}
:{{vandal|Jeb Berkeleys next move}}

:] <sub><font color="green">// bornhj</font> ]</sub> 02:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

::Others with similar tendencies (pages after, and mentions of Jeb Berkeley).]+] 02:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
::{{vandal|Lsyv}}
::{{vandal|Rocos Rorrhum}}
:::I've notice that {{user|Tetleys}} has placed tags on many suspected Jeb Berkeley socks. Tetleys contribs lists about 15 of them and might be a valuable reference in proceeding with this case further.]+] 03:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

::::That's the "]". Jeb Berkeley = Jake Remington, etc., ad nauseam. ] ] 04:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== ] banned from article ==

As his mentor, I've just banned <span class="plainlinks">] (] • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font> • ] • <font color="002bb8"></font>)</span> from ] for two weeks as part of his ]. He has been trying to railroad changes that have generated significant opposition from other editors, ignoring their concerns and being generally incivil. Further disruption will terminate his mentorship and will trigger the ] clause of the Arbitration case between him and Dyslexic Agnostic. ]]<sup>(])</sup> 05:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

A friend of mine was messing around on wikipedia from my computer after i showed him my two edits and that "anyone can do it". if you look at my ip address, you will notice precisely two edits done to wiki articles that were "serious" changes. i did not defame anyone.

Latest revision as of 17:53, 24 December 2024

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    Obvious sock threatening to take legal action

    VPN socking blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    IP 2409:40D6:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 range block has been blocked for 6 months. Liz 03:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    This IP range has been socking to edit a wide range of caste articles, especially those related to Jats . This range belongs to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Truthfindervert and has been socking using proxies and VPNs too. Many of which have been blocked. Now they are threatening to take legal action against me "but how far we will remain silence their various optimistic reason which divert my mind to take an legal action against this two User" . - Ratnahastin (talk) 11:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Just as ignorant as he is known longtime abnormal activation and especially on those of Jat article see his latest revision on Dudi you will get to urge why he have atrocity to disaggregating Jat articles but pm serious node i dont mention him not a once but ypu can also consolidate this User:TheSlumPanda who dont know him either please have a eyes on him for a while 2409:40D6:11A:3D97:D46A:3CB4:A474:99A0 (talk) 12:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    But wait a second as per WP:NOPA i dont take his name either not even so dont even try to show your true culler midway cracker and admin can you please not i am currently ranged blocked as my network is Jio telecom which was largely user by various comers2409:40D6:11A:3D97:D46A:3CB4:A474:99A0 (talk)
    Please tell me there's a language issue at play here, and that the IP didn't mention WP:No personal attacks and use a racist slur in the same sentence there... —C.Fred (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    I think it's both. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    Well, we linguists don't like anecdotal evidence, but I'll provide some: I (non-native speaker of English, with a linguistics PhD) had to look up all the potential candidates for a slur in that post, and when I did find one it's not one I'd ever heard. However, "crackers" is an insult in Hindi, so I'd say it is most likely a PA, just not the one an American English speaker might understand it as. --bonadea contributions talk 13:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    At least in the South, an American would recognize Cracker as a pejorative. Acroterion (talk) 13:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sure, but the IP user who used the word said they are in India, and their post contains various typical non-native speaker errors. ("culler" instead of "colour", for instance) --bonadea contributions talk 16:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    Funny thing is you go far enough south it wraps back around again: Florida cracker - The Bushranger One ping only 22:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by User:AnonMoos

    The main issue with this editor at the moment is disruptive editing based on continuous abuse of WP:TALKNO and failure to get the point. Issues began when this editor removed 5000+ bytes of sourced material. They did it again and again and again.

    Instead of starting a discussion on the talk page of the article, the user came to my talk page to let me know of their opinion of my contributions. When I started a discussion on the talk page of the relevant article, the user edited my signature and changed the heading of the discussion I started according to their POV. When I let them know that this was highly inappropriate according to WP:TALKNO, both in that discussion and on their talk page, they responded on my talk page stating ever since the stupid Misplaced Pages Dec. 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, to able to edit or view Misplaced Pages at all from my home computer, I have to use an indirect method which involves a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool. I couldn't even really see your signature that way, and so didn't know to try to avoid changing it, which I had never heard of. In any case, they kept reverting the content supported by the reliable source, they also kept attempting to apply their POV to the discussion heading again and again and again. I finally explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, and they went ahead and changed it again anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by إيان (talk • contribs) 15:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    The other user in this case is User:AnonMoos? This looks like a content dispute over whether the article is on the English version of a German-Arabic dictionary or the dictionary itself. Secretlondon (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes the is indeed about User:AnonMoos. I see the content dispute as stemming from the fundamental conduct issue, which has manifested itself most egregiously with insisting on violating WP:TALKNO repeatedly even after I explained that I had sought a third opinion and that they should refrain from changing the heading again in order to preserve the integrity of the link, after which they went ahead and changed it again anyway. إيان (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    The heading dispute is between a date heading, and a descriptive heading? that's not really reformulating your entry. Secretlondon (talk) 17:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's a conduct issue. إيان (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    But what conduct issue? TALKNO doesn't forbid changing headings. In fact the wider guideline makes it clear it's perfectly acceptable "Because threads are shared by multiple editors (regardless of how many have posted so far), no one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible. It can also sometimes be appropriate to merge entire sections under one heading (often preserving the later one as a subheading) if their discussions are redundant." To be blunt, if you don't want editors changing the headings of sections you start, don't use such terrible headings. I definitely recommend you stay away from ANI since changing headings is quite common here. Nil Einne (talk) 06:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    Actually I missed the signature issue. That's far more concerning unfortunately lost IMO partly because you concentrated on silly stuff. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    ‎إيان: I suggest you stop messing around with the section heading since it's a distraction which could easily lead to you being blocked. But if AnonMoos changes your signature again, report it and only that without silliness about section headings, mentioning that they've been warned about it before if needed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    I wrote a long and detailed explanation on his user talk page as to why the date-only header is basically useless in that context, but he's still for some peculiar reason fanatically determined to keep changing it back. Frankly, I've basically run out of good-faith reasons that make any sense -- except of course, his apparently unshakable belief that he has certain talk-page "rights", which according to Misplaced Pages guidelines he does not in fact have (outside of his own personal user talk page)... AnonMoos (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    @AnonMoos: I don't see a problem with changing the heading but why on earth did you change their signature multiple times ? That is indeed a clear violation of WP:TPOC since the signature was perfectly valid per WP:NLS. In fact your change was far worse since it changed a perfectly valid signature which would take other editors to the contributor's talk page and user page into an invalid one which lead no where. If you're using some sort of plugin which does that, it's your responsibility to manage it better so it doesn't do that ever again especially if you're going to edit talk pages where it might be common. If you're doing that intentionally, I suggest you cut it out or expect to be indeffed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    User:AnonMoos, this is not good to see. Don't rewrite or reformat other editor's signatures. There is no reason to be doing this unless you are trying to provoke the other editor. Liz 07:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    For what it's worth, AnonMoos stated earlier that the changing of the signature was a unintentional technical issue, due to his use of some "non-standard tool" in accessing the internet . This seems plausible, as similar apparently unintentional changes to non-Ascii character data have happened in edits of his before (e.g. ). But if he knew of this issue, it's rather disappointing he let it happen again some days later . Equally disappointing is the extremely aggressive rhetoric and acerbic tone with which he has been escalating this essentially harmless, good-faith content dispute from the beginning. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    I just can't fathom what tool they're using to get around the HTTPS requirement to edit Misplaced Pages securely. — The Hand That Feeds You: 17:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    Should be impossible as it's required to even access the site in the first place according to WP:SECLakesideMiners 16:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Looking at his talk page it's been going back to at least 2011LakesideMiners 16:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Guys, I do not deliberately set out to modify signatures, and when it happens, I am not usually aware of doing so. As I've already explained before in several places, since the December 2019 encryption protocol upgrade (NOT 2011!), the only way I can edit (or view) Misplaced Pages at all from home is by an indirect method which is not fully Unicode-compliant. To change this, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection, which would permanently disconnect my older computer, which I still use almost every day.
    Meanwhile, this thread has been set up so I can't add a comment to it from home without affecting Unicode characters, so I was unable to reply here for 36 hours or so. If I'm silent in the future, it will be for the same reason. AnonMoos (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Misplaced Pages uses Unicode characters (UTF-8 encoding). Anyone who cannot edit without corrupting such characters should not edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Whatever, -- I was using them perfectly fine until December 2019, and still use them perfectly fine on public WiFi, but in December 2019 a requirement was imposed that you can't access Misplaced Pages at all unless you can handle encryption algorithms and protocols that weren't introduced until the mid-2010s. I have a 2012 web browser on my home computer that handles UTF-8 just fine, but 2012 simply wasn't good enough for the Misplaced Pages developers -- you had to have software that was almost up to date as of 2019, or you would be abruptly totally cut off. If you can drag up the relevant archive of Village Pump Technical, I and others complained at the time, but our concerns were not listened to or considered in any way. The basic attitude of the developers was that if you weren't running almost up-to-date software, then screw you, and if your computer is not capable of running almost up-to-date software, then double screw you! The change was announced for January 2020, but was actually implemented in mid-December 2019, apparently because they were so eager and anxious to start excluding people. It wasn't one of Misplaced Pages's finer moments. Since that time, I have had to use an indirect method to access Misplaced Pages from my home computer, and I don't feel particularly guilty about it (other people's obnoxious behaviors in 2019 have done away with most of the guilt I might feel)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    ...HTTPS was created in 1994, and became an official specification in 2000, not "mid-2010s". I'm not sure what 2012 web browser you're using, but if it's not able to handle HTTPS not being able to access Misplaced Pages with it is the least of your browsing concerns, given that 85-95% of the World Wide Web defaults to it now. Also I hate to think of how many security holes your ancient computer has. I'm going to be honest: with a brower setup that old it isn't safe for you to be on the web at all, and the security hole that lets you access Misplaced Pages without using a secure connection should be fixed, because that is not working as intended and is - as mentioned - a security hole. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    You unfortunately don't know what you're talking about. New ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL METHODS have been introduced within HTTPS from time to time. I was using HTTPS perfectly happily until December 2019, when the developers arbitrarily ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    And even leaving that aside, as Johnuniq mentions - if you can't edit without corrupting Unicode characters, and by your own admission you don't know when it happens, you shouldn't be editing. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is probably a reference to when Misplaced Pages started requiring TLS 1.2 (because earlier versions were deprecated). Anyone who was/is still on Windows XP at that point couldn't connect any more. MrOllie (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm not talking about when the update happening, I'm talking about how you have known about this issue, and have been getting complainants about it since 2011and are still not taking any steps to do anything about it. What kind of internet connection would not support your PC? What on earth are you even using? Dial-Up? Because that still is supported by even Windows 10. LakesideMiners 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    :::Also, how did you see me saying "this has happened since 2011" as me saying that the update happened in 2011? Can you clarify. LakesideMiners 03:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The problem didn't start in 2011, and I have no idea what you're referring to when you mention 2011. The problem started in December 2019 when the developers arbitrarily imposed new ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS... AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    Apologies. I was extremely tired when I wrote both above. I have striken the date parts. Rest of my comments still stand. LakesideMiners 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    None of this matters

    I don't care what tool this guy uses or what his excuse is. If he can't edit without screwing up people's sigs, then he must not edit. AnonMoos shouls consider himself on notice now that if one of his edits messes stuff up one more time, he'll be blocked until he can give assurance that he's come into the 21st century. EEng 18:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    That's nice -- and also totally inaccurate. I was in the 21st century, and using 2012 tools, up until December 2019, when the developers pitchforked me backwards by arbitrarily imposing HTTPS ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS which my home computer hardware is not able to run. Notice that I had no problem complying with character-set handling -- the problem is with arbitrary ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM AND PROTOCOL REQUIREMENTS. AnonMoos (talk) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    The century imagery is irrelevant. You have been warned. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    That was six years ago, which is IMO about 3-4 years too long to keep using it as an excuse. Technology changes over time, so whatever this non-standard thing you think you need to do to edit here, it may be time to make a choice. Zaathras (talk) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    As I said, to fix the problem, I would have to get a completely different type of Internet connection which would permanently disconnect my old computer, which I still use almost every single day. I would basically have to change my workflow and overall habits/methods of working because of an arbitrary decision by Misplaced Pages developers about encryption protocol updates. Anyway, when editing through public WiFi, I'm 100% Unicode compliant, and by exercising a little prudence, I can also avoid most problems when working from home. If I was constantly mangling Unicode right and left, there would have been a chorus of complaints long before now. But occasionally I can't anticipate a problem... AnonMoos (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    And just to say for the third time: you're out of chances. "Occassionally" is too often. Once more is too often. And if and when that happens, your attitude of entitlement displayed here will pretty much ensure an indefinite block. EEng 03:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    If you have DSL or even DialUp. That still works with modern machines. LakesideMiners 01:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    Heck, I am on DSL (and have been since, if I recall right, 2008). I have no idea what sort of ancient Internet connection AnonMoos is claiming to be using, but it's clearly one that was already obsolete before this change he's still up in arms about six years later was made. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • The response by AnonMoos to feedback about this problem is bizarre. I don't really care what the excuse or the history behind it. If you are unwilling to edit Misplaced Pages using tools that work in 2024 then you should stop editing. The behavior is completely unnecessary and it seems like you don't understand the disruption. Nemov (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • AnonMoos hasn't really explained in any detail what their technical limitations are. They don't have to, but we can't really give advice otherwise. If as others have suggested their computer can't negotiate TLS 1.2, I'm surprised that they're able to use any websites at all from that computer. Requiring TLS 1.2 is not controversial; Misplaced Pages wasn't doing anything unusual in dropping TLS 1.0/1.1 around that time. Mackensen (talk) 15:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Disruptive editing by User talk:185.146.112.192

    The User talk:185.146.112.192 is engaging in disrupte editing. Neither does this IP provide sources and is POV pushing. And this IP has been warned multiple times for this on his/her talk page.

    Moroike (talk) 20:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Moroike: It looks like you both are edit warring on Kichik Bazar Mosque. That's not particularly helpful, so you should try to have a discussion on the article talk page as to whether you should include the Talysh language name for the article in the lead/infobox. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 20:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    MJL why and how did you pick out that one article over the many this IP has made recent changes to? The IP has been making disputed edits for months and has been reverted by a number of editors, not just Moroike. CMD (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @CMD: I am not suggesting that the IP editor isn't being disruptive, but my point is that Moroike isn't making the situation better (using the example of that one article). You can see this by looking at their last 50 contributions where they have mostly just reverted this editor without using a summary. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 18:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The IP's edits were removed a total of 13 times on the page regarding the capital city of Azerbaijan, Baku. You can't let him continue engaging in further edit wars with other users besides Moroike, can you? Nuritae331 (talk) 17:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Since this IP user won't stop and is stonewalling, either he/should be temporarily blocked, or all the pages he is POV pushing without sources, should be semi-protected, so that only registered users can edit them. Moroike (talk) 21:37, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    After he/she was blocked for 24 hours, this IP created an account as User talk:Ibish Agayev in order to evade the block and has resumed his/her POV pushing. Moroike (talk) 16:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    User engaged in edit warring to remove disputed content prior to consensus

    There's nothing actionable in this content dispute, except perhaps trouting the original poster for failing to assume good faith and hounding friendly admins when they try to help. Longtime user User:Sxbbetyy (4.5 yrs, over 5K edits) has made several assertions based on their clear misunderstanding of social norms. In this discussion they've failed to notify the subject (they actually failed to use the subject's name in the OP), they've failed to bring any diffs, they failed to sign their post, and over and over they seem to have failed to assume good faith of their fellow editors. A number of editors including several admins have attempted to talk Sxbbetyy down. Nobody in this discussion seems to agree with Sxbbetyy on the merits, yet Sxbbetyy keeps circling back to their own personal interpretation of policy. The discussion at User talk:Sergecross73, where Sxbbetyy refuses to listen to the admin they asked, gives another example of the problem. Sxbbetyy is reminded that creating a post on ANI puts all their own behaviors up for examination. BusterD (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Title is pretty self explanatory. Rather than engage in the consensus building process to determine if the disputed content discussed here is problematic, this editor has instead immediately reverted the disputed content. They have been informed of the relevant policies prohibiting this behavior and how it should normally be handled (tagging the content as disputed while the discussion is ongoing) but have elected to instead engage in edit warring to keep the disputed content removed prior to any consensus on the matter. Also important to note that they wish to have the content removed entirely, but have stated that they no longer intend to participate in the consensus building discussion. So this appears to be a WP:STONEWALLING tactic to accomplish their goal of removing the content immediately without a consensus. Seeking admin help to halt this behavior and restore the content with the correct tagging.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sxbbetyy (talk • contribs) 23:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    It would help if you named the editor and signed your name to figure out what you are talking about; a noticeboard only works if you give us notice about the subject and what is happening. Nate • (chatter) 23:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    The editor appears to be PerfectSoundWhatever, based on the link under the word "this" as well as this notification. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 23:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    My apology, this is my very first time making such a post. The other pages o have spoken on seemed to have signed themselves automatically. Will remember this going forward. And yes, that was the user, posted this using my phone so I didn't want to mis-spell their name, just linked instead. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    (Non-administrator comment) IMO the best practice is that in the event of a content dispute, the article should be reverted to the status quo of how the article's content appeared before the dispute started, until such a time that consensus is established to re-add it (see: WP:STATUSQUO). It seems like the beginning of the content that is in dispute was added on 18 August 2024, the dispute began a few weeks later on 23 September 2024 and has been ongoing ever since.In this case, since the article existed in a relatively steady state for several months (or even years?) previous to the disputed material being added, I think it'd be wise to leave the disputed content out of the article until the discussion comes to a close. RachelTensions (talk) 00:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have been seeing this opinion from a few editors and even one admin on how to interpret this article. However, the first few sentences in that section do outright state to avoid reverting the disputed content prior to a consensus. And prior to opening this report, I asked several admins on the topic and got a response that reverting the disputed content immediately is incorrect per WP:STATUSQUO as it bypasses the consensus building process. I was advised that the content should instead be tagged as disputed rather than be outright removed. The offending user was made aware of the relevant policies but has nonetheless engaging in edit warring to keep it reverted, hence this report. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    The status quo of an article constitutes implicit consensus (WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS). The person trying to include disputed content in an article despite it not being status quo is the one that could be construed as attempting to bypass the consensus building process, not the person trying to maintain status quo until discussion takes place. RachelTensions (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Correct, and at no point was the definition of what constitutes the status quo ever in contention. In fact, if you review the edit history of the article you can see that the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content, and then continued to revert it as others tried to restore it (both before and after the consensus discussion began). Sxbbetyy (talk) 23:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    the disputed content was the status quo via implicit consensus at the time PSW chose to first outright revert the content
    Not really, I personally wouldn't define "been there a few weeks" as status quo.I think maybe the other replies to this thread provide pretty good reasoning to take a step back and say "hey maybe I'm the one in the wrong here" instead of talking in circles RachelTensions (talk) 00:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Personally I think the number of contributions since the edit where it has gone unchanged is a more useful metric, especially on low traffic pages such as this one. Regardless, per the policy you cite, there seems to be no official Misplaced Pages stance on what exact criteria are needed for a contribution to be considered the current status quo, beyond it having been unchallenged in subsequent contributions (which is the case here).
    As for the rest of your comment, there seems to be a high amount of band wagoning and "Proof by assertion" going on in the rest of this. Or people trying to use this report as an extension of the dispute discussion on the article's talk page. Hopefully more actual admins to chime in on the topic as I don't actually want to waste my time talking in circles.
    On that note thanks for actually taking the time and baseline minimal effort to engage in a discussion where you actually support your point and don't just devolve into repeating the same talking points over and over. It's a nice change of pace. Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I am the editor being discussed here. I'll provide a summary of events since the initial statement by Sxbbetyy is misleading.
    Myself and the editor had a content dispute at Team Seas (1) and following circular discussion, I stopped engaging since I felt I had laid out my points. Per WP:STATUSQUO, I maintained the state of the article to before the dispute. I requested for a third opinion, which was answered by @BerryForPerpetuity:, who agreed the statement should be removed, albeit for a different reason than mine. I took this 2-1 as rough consensus. I also posted the dispute on two WikiProjects, and have received no response so far. Sxbbetyy reached out to three admins about the matter, @Sergecross73, Oshwah, and Pbsouthwood:. The Sergecross73 discussion can be summarized as Sergecross believing that I haven't engaged in misconduct, and that I have presented a "plausible, good-faith interpretation of SYNTH". Sxbbetyy then accused Sergecross73 of not acting in good faith. Oshwah did not respond to the post on their talk page, but @BusterD: did, essentially agreeing that the sourcing does not back up the claim in the content dispute. Sxbbetyy received help on Pbsouthwood's talk page about responding to a content dispute. And now we're here.
    Throughout these interactions, Sxbbetyy has demonstrated a failure to assume good faith, refuses to accept that they may be wrong, and WP:BLUDGEONs talk pages, refusing to let the other editor have the last word. Frankly, this is a massive waste of editor time: it should have been a brief talk page discussion then an RfC. Apologies for all the pings. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 00:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    This summarization in itself leaves out critical context, (such as berry's concern being alleviated and them no longer expressing a desire to remove the content), the specifics of why that conversation with Serge ended the way it did despite my repeated attempts to engage with them in good faith, and the entire discussion with pbsouthwood (who quite definitively explained that the behavior PSW was engaged in was not correct). So I urge all involved to go read those topics to get the correct context through your own eyes and then discuss any concerns from what you see here. That being the case, it seems pretty clear cut imo. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Just to be clear, in no way did I express that I didn't want the content to be removed. I did not receive a notification for your reply, and I wouldn't have engaged either way. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 17:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I would leave that material out of the article. Whilst it may not exactly be synthesis per se, it is certainly editorialising ("the removal of that amount of marine debris is of negligible consequence...") unless there is an actual source that says this by making a link between between the two statistics (the amount of waste removed by Team Seas and the rate at which waste is entering the ecosystem). And even then, I would say that such an edit would need to say something like "However, ARandomNewspaper pointed out that ...". Black Kite (talk) 00:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    That is actually no longer the content that is being disputed. If you look at the latest version that got reverted on the article you can see the current version. I had made edits to it precisely because of valid WP:NPOV concerns brought to my attention by PSW. However, their dispute with the content remains with the claim that is is synthesis rather than any other concern. Which they have been thus far unable to obtain a consensus on. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I have some pretty serious WP:IDHT concerns about the topic starter here. They came to me for help (no idea how/why me, I have no connection to this dispute) and I repeatedly told them I didn't see any misconduct, and then they started attacking me when I refused to agree with them. And now this. This is a very simple content dispute, with a very simple no consensus means no change outcome. I've told them this. It's a disappointing time sink on a rather trivial content dispute. Sergecross73 msg me 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
      At no point was he "attacked". I defended myself after he became hostile with me (as anyone can read in our convo, I stated multiple times that I would leave and did not want to be a burden if they didn't want to engage with this, but he made no such objections and continued). Eventually he just became outright hostile and refused to explain their points any further, devolving the conversation into them repeating themselves over and over, its all there to read on his talk page. As for why I contacted him, I wanted to ensure I chose impartially so I just randomly looked at the currently active admins at the time and he was the first one I found. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
      The discussion is right here, if anyone wants to look. The "attack" I'm referring to you is your accusation that I responded to you in bad faith. I was not involved in the dispute, have no stance on it, and had no pre-conceived notions about either of you - what in the world would my motivations be for "bad faith responses"? It doesn't make any sense. You simply didn't get the response you wanted, and proceeded to badger me on it. Did I get vaguely irritated when I volunteered my time to review and comment on a dispute I had no stance or interest in, only to get all sorts of sour grapes responses on it? Yeah, sure, but who wouldn't? Sergecross73 msg me 18:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I'm here from my input at the 3rd opinion request. This is nothing more than a trivial content dispute, I see no reason for this to be at ANI. I somewhat agree with the claim of synthesis, it becomes more susceptible to incorrect information, and from my analysis it seemed like the claim in the disputed content was completely wrong. Two different sources, from two different time periods. My $0.02: The claim of stonewalling is ridiculous, there was ample good-faith discussion based on existing policy and guidelines. This editor does not assume good faith, it appears that he claims that editors disagreeing are acting in bad faith. From him to administrator Sergecross73: "I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith." It seems that he roots his argument based on the editor who removed it rather than the content itself. Very unfortunate waste of time. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 15:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
      Exactly. It's not "stonewalling" that's happening here. PerfectSoundWhatever has discussed at-length at the talk page. They're simply not willing to talk circles indefinitely. And we don't require that of editors. I've urged Sxbbetyy to, rather that spin their wheels arguing with the same person endlessly in a stalemate, to try to get other participants to take part. But they've refused, and instead decided to move their arguing to ANI instead. As I noted to them in one of my last comments to them, if they spent half as much effort in consensus-building as they did complaining and arguing, they could have built a consensus by now... Sergecross73 msg me 17:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
      Reading any of what I wrote in this dispute shows clearly that is not the case. Also, the quoted sentence is completely taken out of context.
      Here is what was said in the mesaage before that they left out, "Not really the logical conclusion one draws from reading any of what I wrote here, where I asked multiple times for you to explain your reasoning in your replies (instead your response was to repeat yourself without offering further explanation), but if that is what you want to take away from this that's fine by me. I'm not wasting time engaging with you if you aren't going to speak with me in good faith."
      The message as a whole was replying to was a passive aggressive insult that didn't progress that conversation, hence the response as it was clearly not an example of engagement in good faith.Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Also, it looks like the participants in the dispute on the Team Seas article are acting as if this report is an extension of that dispute discussion.
    This is a report of edit warring to revert disputed content prior to a consensus being reached (there was no consensus prior to the reversion and there still is no consensus, as admitted by PSW themselves in that very dispute and In their latest revert message, no idea why now in this report they are trying to claim that there is suddenly consensus for removal).
    This is not a report on the dispute itself, just to make that very clear since those involved are responding as if it is. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    You've still got this backward. You need to show a consensus to keep your content in the article, as everyone else has been telling you. WP:ONUS is directly on point, and I'll quote it here: The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. MrOllie (talk) 18:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Thank you. I have tried to inform them of this many times and many ways. I do not know why they cannot wrap their head around the concept. Conceptually, it would be very problematic if we were required to retain every disputed content until consensus ruled it out. It wouldn't be workable. Sergecross73 msg me 19:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Nobody is arguing WP:ONUS here...not in the dispute and not here in this report. The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed.
    I was directly advised by admin Pbsouthwood that the removal of disputed content BEFORE any consensus has been reached is not allowed (save for specific situations, none of which apply to the disputed content) as this bypasses the consensus building process. Here is the talk page where I was advised this. This is echoed with the wording in WP:STONEWALLING and WP:STATUSQUO. Here is the direct quote from the latter, "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages, is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." Sxbbetyy (talk) 19:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    The point is that the content is being removed prior to there being a consensus on if it should be removed. <--- No. This is your problem. What you are saying here is incorrect. Policies say the opposite of this. You are not going to get support at ANI. In fact, the longer you keep going with this WP:IDHT insistence that community practice is actually the opposite of what policies plainly say it is, the more likely it is you're going to find yourself blocked for disruption. Pbsouthwood didn't tell you this either (what he wrote doesn't match what you've been doing), and your initial question did not properly represent the situation at hand. But we can invite him here to see if he actually supports what you're doing here: @Pbsouthwood:, what say you? MrOllie (talk) 20:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    This entire comment serves absolutely zero purpose whatsoever. You're parroting what others have already said with no supporting evidence. Along with throwing in an oddly included threat that is completely nonsensical and wholly unwarranted.
    And while I could point out the myriad of ways your claim about what Pbsouthwood said was inaccurate, that would pretty much involve reposting his reply, which is a waste since anyone can already go to his talk page and read it themselves.
    So at this point, if you need that admin to come here and tell you what they already said themselves, more power to you. Would save us all a ton of time to get an authoritative answer on this, especially with another admin holding the opposite view point, in spite of the specific policy wording. Sxbbetyy (talk) 23:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    No matter how much you insist otherwise, there does not need to be an established consensus for the removal of content. Drop the stick. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm not the one insisting otherwise...this report only exists because an admin told me otherwise. And as I've posted in my previous replies, the wording in the policies clearly support that. Makes me question how many have actually bothered to really read these policies... Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    The other admin told you nothing about the removal of WP:SYNTH, which is always appropriate. Back away from the dead horse. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    1. This report is not an extension of the dispute discussion for that article, if you want to involve yourself in that discussion, do so there, do not hijack this report.
    2. The disputed content is plainly not WP:SYNTH as I explain on the talk page in great length, with nobody thus far having provided valid examples as to how it is.
    3. If you are going to make the claim that any WP:SYNTH concerns warrant immediate reversion without consensus, please feel free to share the quote in the relevant policy that says this. I have not found any such wording and instead found that what is present matches up with what PBsouthwood informed me.
    Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Come on, how many people need to tell you you're wrong? Sergecross73 msg me 02:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At this point I say that my advice was given without a specific context, and without prejudice. I maintain that it is more collegial and polite to discuss a removal of unsourced but plausible content before removing it, as it can often avoid disputes of this kind, but it is not forbidden to arbitrarily delete content that an editor plausibly considers inappropriate provided the relevant reason is given. It is always the responsibility of the person advocating inclusion to provide a reference when challenged, regardless of the process of challenge.
    Some forms of synthesis are acceptable. If a conclusion is logically inevitable based on undisputed factual premises, or is a simple mathematical calculation, we routinely accept claims that may not be specifically stated in a source, but we may require the logic to be explained, as it may not be obvious to the reader.
    At the risk of being hoist with my own petard, I also refer readers to WP:Don't be a dick (looks like that essay has been expunged, try Meta:Don't be a jerk). · · · Peter Southwood : 06:59, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I think many of us used to the mess editors adding unsourced content can create would strongly oppose leaving in unsourced content just because it's plausible. The standard should instead be at a minimum that you believe the claim made is most likely correct and sourceable not simply that it's plausible. Although ultimately such discussions are a little silly anyway. If editors would just add sources rather than leaving it for someone else because they're claiming it's unlikely to be challenged or whatever, there would be a need for others to decide whether to query or remove unsourced content. Nil Einne (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I was suggesting tagging with citation needed while you wait a reasonable time for a response, but as we know some of us do not have the patience and just revert. It in not unheard of to know something, but not have a source handy at the time. What is obvious to one may be totally obscure to others. This is acceptable within policy and guidelines. You could start a RfC to have the guidelines changed, but I suspect it would not get through as being a bit bitey. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood : 12:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, what you say is true, that's absolutely an acceptable approach. But that's not really the problem at hand here. The bigger issue is that Sxbbetyy appears to be believe that the alternative approach - reverting per STATUSQUO or NOCONSENSUS - is somehow misconduct, and that's simply not true. They're not arguing about if your approach is valid, they're arguing that its compulsory, and they're attempting to report a user for not following your possible approach, which is completely meritless. Sergecross73 msg me 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Please do not put words in my mouth. The only reason this report exists is because Peter Southwood advised that this was how I should proceed if the editor participating in this no-consensus reverting continued to do so and was unreceptive to further discussion. (Both are true by admission of PSW themselves). Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I've seen that discussion, but you presented the situation to them entirely in hypotheticals that lacks crucial context. You frame PSW as unwilling to engage in discussion but omit the fact that PSW did engage in extensive discussion already. You accuse PSW of edit warring to keep their information in the article, but omit the fact that you're equally guilty of edit warring, as you're responsible for every single counter-revert in the situation. I would think the near-unanimous rejection of this ANI report would indicate that this was not, in fact, a good thing to report. Best case scenario, this is archived with no action, but I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a WP:BOOMERANG. Sergecross73 msg me 18:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I don't know why you are attempting to present the entire discussion on that talk page as some sort of proof that PSW was willing to engage in further discussion to halt the behavior this report is about. At no point whatsoever did PSW ever indicate anything like that; if they did this report wouldn't exist as the discussions on your talk page or Peter Southwood's page would have never needed to happen. Not to mention if you take the time to actually read the discussion, you see that most of it is on the specifics of the validity of the WP:SYNTH claim made by PSW, eventually culminating in PSW actually asserting that they will not stop change their position on this and then outright refusing to engage any further.
    And now you accuse me of edit warring by citing the entire recent edit history of the page...this isn't fooling anyone who actually bothers to read any of the revert messages and examine the timeline of when they occurred (talk about omitting "crucial context").
    Beyond just slandering my character, I don't really see what these kind of spurious claims accomplish. It wastes everyone's time, makes yourself look biased and hostile, and adds nothing to the conversation. Keep things civil please, I really shouldn't have to tell you of all people that basic expectation. Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Wait...are you seriously trying to suggest that, even though you were the only one who reverted him every single time, he was edit warring and you weren't? Sergecross73 msg me 02:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    If you are going to continue to twist words and make false claims immediately after being asked to keep things civil, maybe it would be best for all involved if you just moved on from this conversation. Sad that even has to be stated at this point, it should be a given. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yet another IDHT response where you try to baselessly chastize me rather than address anything anyone is saying to you. Sergecross73 msg me 18:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    What a choice to post this exact type reply to my last message... not to mention the sheer absurdity of it. To claim that I've never addressed anyone's points in my replies is so easily and visibly wrong (literally this entire topic is full of my detailed replies to people's concerns, including this very reply) that it's almost insulting to the rest of the people participating in this or to anyone who even chooses to read that message. It's as if you think nobody can see the rest of this discussion (or even the comments directly above it). Sxbbetyy (talk) 11:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Thank you for taking the time to respond and my apology for any inconvenience it may have caused. Ive tried to keep it as civil as possible, but there seems to be a very hostile air in this discussion by those with the dissenting opinion. As for how this situation is to be resolved, would it be appropriate to restore the currently disputed content with the appropriate tags (as it is sourced and was the statusquo on the page at the time of reversion)? Or is there something further that must be done here? I'm generally unfamiliar with how ANIs actually function. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Have you considered starting an WP:RFC? The fact is that you made a WP:BOLD addition to the article; someone else objected to it, which means you now ought to seek consensus for your addition. As numerous people have told you, none of the relevant policies and guidelines (WP:ONUS, WP:BRD, WP:QUO, etc) would allow you to make a recent addition the "default" the way you want, but more generally - the problem is that you're trying to dig through policy for something that will make your preferred version the default, allowing you to have it in the article without having to demonstrate consensus for it even in the face of challenges. Even if the policies and guidelines I listed were on your side this would still be a bad way to approach it. You have a conflict, your goal should be to resolve it by making consensus as clear as possible - figuring out what the crux of the dispute is and then, if you can't reach a compromise, holding an RFC to see where consensus lies. Also, I have to point out that just by a quick nose count of people who have weighed in on talk, I'm seeing a dispute that is now three-to-one against you. That is a consensus - not a massive one, maybe an RFC will pull in a bunch of people that say something else, but it doesn't make sense for you to keep demanding a consensus to remove something you added when there actually is such a consensus on talk. You've disagreed with their arguments but they're not obliged to WP:SATISFY you; ultimately if you think your arguments are so strong and theirs are so weak, the only real option for you at this point is to start an RFC and hope that you can demonstrate that there. --Aquillion (talk) 04:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    As mentioned earlier in the discussion, this report is not an extension of the dispute on that article, nor is that what this report is about. Also, a RFC was already started for the topic about a week or so ago by PSW, but that occurred after he reverted the status quo, disputed content with discussion (repeatedly). As for the rest of your comment, Peter Southwood, an admin, has addressed what is the actual expectation. Sxbbetyy (talk) 18:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    What? I never started an RfC. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 19:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I just checked and on 12/9/24 at Serge's talk page you said the following, "Thanks – just wanted to mention I requested comments from WP Internet Culture and WP YouTube about 2 weeks ago."
    Did that not actually happen? Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    WP:RFC is a specific process. Asking questions on a couple of Wikiprojects is not an RFC. MrOllie (talk) 02:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    That's fundamentally not what an RFC is. This is getting ridiculous... Sergecross73 msg me 03:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's almost like this is the very first time I've ever been involved in this kind of issue on Misplaced Pages before...seriously these kind of replies come off as rude and don't actually say anything meaningful or helpful. Ever since our conversation on your talk page you have made next to no real effort to engage in good faith and I find that highly disappointing to be coming from an admin. And my apology if I offended you at all at some point or if you have just "lost your patience" with me, but I don't see how that gives you the green flag to suddenly disregard WP:Civility. I certainly haven't, in spite of being on the receiving end of this. Sxbbetyy (talk) 17:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    I haven't said anything uncivil, I just keep calling you out when you say something incorrect. Sergecross73 msg me 18:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Cunningham's Law, is a powerful force, I find it difficult to resist myself. MrOllie (talk) 18:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Request for closure

    Despite its large size, the consensus here is quite clear. There's no misconduct here, just standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO and WP:NOCONSENSUS, which is perfectly acceptable. Not a single person has suggested taking any action towards PerfectSoundWhatver. Outside of a a potential IDHT BOOMERANG, there's nothing left to be done here. Can someone close this? Sergecross73 msg me 14:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    I second that. If there has been any edit-warring by any party that should be dealt with in the normal way. PerfectSoundWhatever has certainly done nothing wrong, and the OP will get blocked if they don't start listening to people pretty quickly. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Exactly. And even that's probably unlikely, as most of the "edit warring" was singular reverts with days or weeks in between. It's far from a 3RR situation at least. Sergecross73 msg me 15:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    (Non-administrator comment) I don't think this conversation is going anywhere fast, other than seemingly coming to the conclusion that @PerfectSoundWhatever has done nothing wrong, which seems to be the opposite of what this ANI post was about. There's no edit warring here, and even if there was, it wouldn't be dealt with at this venue. Shut it down! RachelTensions (talk) 16:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    In what way whatsoever is this editor's decision to revert the disputed content during the discussion "standard following of procedures of WP:STATUSQUO"? The literal first words that appear at that link are in bold and say, "Avoid reverting during discussion", followed by a detailed explanation of the actual proper procedure. And to make it very clear what it says, here is the literal first paragraph verbatim: "To eliminate the risk of an edit war, do not revert away from the status quo ante bellum during a dispute discussion. Instead, add an appropriate tag indicating the text is disputed. For an article, many of the inline dispute tags are appropriate. For other pages, {{under discussion inline}} is good. Leave the status quo and the tag in place until the discussion concludes." Sxbbetyy (talk) 02:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    In what way is that your read of the consensus in the discussion above? Sergecross73 msg me 02:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    In what world do you logically come to that conclusion from a message that consist of almost entirely the word for word quote of the procedures described in WP:STATUSQUO, that directly counters the claim you just made? Are you saying it is "against consensus" simply because it presents a viewpoint you don't like and don't want to address? I don't see another reason why you would again twist my words, to the point of lunacy. And this is, once again, despite the fact that all of what has been said is literally within view.
    Also, regarding the consensus. Out of everyone that has actually joined the discussion and all the messages sent (~90% of which are either from myself or you Serge), there have been only three people who have actually said anything in support of your interpretation of this. The rest either did not discuss the topic, did not express an opinion, or were Peter Southwood who supported the interpretation of WP:STATUSQUO as stated on its page. Seems like you're just trying to rush a end to the conversation to get the conclusion you want. Sxbbetyy (talk) 15:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm saying there has been no consensus for anything you're arguing here. Not a single person has supported action against PSW. Sergecross73 msg me 15:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The status quo ante bellum that shouldn't be reverted from is the version without the new content. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Mgtow definition

    Editor was pointed to the talk page and then stopped editing. It looks like this was a case of WP:GRENADE. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    There are blatant lies in the wiki definition of "mgtow". The goal is accuracy, not "man bashing". Camarogue100 (talk) 14:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Camarogue100, you should discuss this at Talk:Men Going Their Own Way. This noticeboard is for conduct issues, not content issues. Schazjmd (talk) 14:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Nothing wrong with the definition of MGTOW. Maximum Gross Takeoff Weight is an internationally accepted and used term used by every airplane and airline in the world. Canterbury Tail talk 16:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    The cintent is incorrect. Mvto is NOT "misogynistic". There is no "hate" towards women, only avoidance. Camarogue100 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Camarogue100, you were directed to the talkpage, which includes an FAQ on the term you keep trying to remove, along with extensive discussion. You should start there before just removing sourced content that you don't like. We'll leave aside the absence of required notifications to Black Kite and myself who have warned you for your conduct. Acroterion (talk) 17:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Where do I find the talk page? Camarogue100 (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Camarogue100, I linked it for you in my comment above. Schazjmd (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Creating the need to make 400,000 unnecessary edits

    Can we please dp something about editors who make unnecessary changes to widely-used modules, and then need to change 400,000 talk pages to get the same result we had before the change? Thanks to this change from last week, which removed the parameter "living" from the bannershell, we now have more than 400,000 pages in Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters. After the "cleanup" by User:Tom.Reding (and perhaps others), we will have the exact same result as we had last week, no new functionality, no new categories, no improvement at all, but a lot of flooded watchlists.

    I tried to get him to stop at User talk:Tom.Reding#Cosmetic edits, to no avail. This isn't the first time, as you can see from that discussion. Fram (talk) 14:57, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    If you want to discuss {{WikiProject banner shell}}, you should do so at Template talk:WikiProject banner shell.
    As for the size of the category, I have no plans to empty it, and was only going to update a few hundred more categories and templates.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    You made nearly 2000 of such edits in the last few hours, and when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries. I have no way to know how many more you planned now or in future runs. Starting a discussion at the module would hardly stop you. Fram (talk) 15:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    "when asked to stop pointed me to a category with 400,000 entries": incorrect. Since you wrongly thought I was making cosmetic edits, i.e. "no change in output or categories", the category was to inform you that they are not cosmetic.
    Regarding a BRFA for the bulk of the category, that's looking more likely since the category appears to be neglected.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Unnecessary removing a synonym and then making thousands of edits to remove the hidden cat created by that unnecessary change is not really any better than making cosmetic edits, the end result is that nothing has changed for the affected pages at all. Fram (talk) 15:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Not unnecessary. The Lua code is very complex and removing the need the support various settings makes the code both easier to read and maintain. As always, editors that don't want to see these edits can hide these by hiding the tag "talk banner shell conversion". Gonnym (talk) 12:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    It doesn´t look as if the specific code to have these synonyms was very complicated though, the argument that in some cases two synonyms were used on one page with conflicting values was more convincing. And the edits I complained about did not have that tag, so no, even if people knew about hiding that tag, it wouldn't have helped here at all. Fram (talk) 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    This was discussed in detail on Template talk:WikiProject banner shell. Ideally these edits would be done by an approved bot so they do not appear on people's watchlists. The main benefit is to merge the |blp= and |living= parameters. When both are in use, we find they often get conflicting values because one gets updated and the other does not. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:25, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Isn't it more logical to first have a bot cleanup the unwanted parameter, then remove it from the template, and only then start populating the cat with the somehow remaining or since added instances? In any case, this is a typical bot task and shouldn't be done with massive AWB runs. Fram (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, probably. But we have this mechanism already set up and I assumed Cewbot would deal with these as part of its normal activities. Happy to look at other options - maybe discuss on template talk? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I don't know what this is about, but if the OP is correct, it is totally absurd to edit 400,000 talk pages for a tweak. Discussing at a template talk page monitored by those focused on the template would simply hide the issue. Johnuniq (talk) 03:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Edits like these should always be bots, so they can be filtered from watchlists. There are numerous other editors who have recently engaged in the mass additional of categories to articles which I had to ask them to stop as my watchlist was flooded. GiantSnowman 13:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Meanwhile, the category has grown to over 800,000 pages. Perhaps next time an RfC to determine whether creating such a large cleanup task is warranted, would be better? Fram (talk) 16:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:Augmented Seventh

    User:Augmented Seventh is making wholesale reverts of my edits in contravention to guidelines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    You're removing demographic categories and templates by blanking them out; irreligion still deals with religion no matter your argument. That's definitely not compliant with WP:CAT and clearly vandalism. There's no action to take here except that you need to stop removing these categories and templates. Nate • (chatter) 19:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    And you are now required to cite how your edits meet WP:CAT; spamming it in edit summaries is not discussion. Nate • (chatter) 19:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    While doing routine vandal patrol, I came across what seemed to be a hasty and massive removal of content, being done in a very directed and personal manner.
    After looking at the persistent removal, and communicating, I restored the well-drawn categories.
    Hopefully, this is easily resolved.
    Augmented Seventh (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    43*, do not continue to revert these category removals without discussing them first. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    THere is nothing to discuss. The guidelines are clear. What needs to be done is editors need to be familiar with the cat guidelines. We don't discuss whether the sky is blue do we? 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    THey are not well drawn, it was not hasty, it was not massive, and it was not "personal". It was directed because they all had the same issue. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Editors should not blindly revert. They should be required to understand the guideleines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I gave up editing because there were too many problems that the wiki communtity is not sorting out. One of them is treating anon editors as second class wikicitizens.

    Another problem is "this is how it is so we are going to leave it like this for years and years" and this is at the expense of the quality of WP.

    I can't remember the specific category guideline for the edits I did but is the undoing editors need to look it up. Categorisation is something that a lot of editor do not understand. Go and put a notice on WikkiProoject Categorisation and you will fing that there is support for my edits.

    WP could be sooo much better. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I'm sorry, but "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone" is an indication you should be trying to do better instead of telling us we should do the same. If you're not willing to actually explain why guidelines vindicate your changes, then being right sometimes isn't enough if you want to make things better. Communication is the process, not something ancillary to it. Remsense ‥ 论 02:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    GO and read the guidelines. It does not need discussion. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Discussion is required when other editors ask you questions in good faith in order to resolve present disputes and prevent future ones. Remsense ‥ 论 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Bear in mind this is WP and not social media. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone". 43.249.196.179 (talk) 02:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    No. You brought this here. The WP:ONUS is on you to explain how the guidelines justify your edits, not to say "go look it up". Also How do you get the impression that "I don't remember what policy says but I'm right so leave me alone" - because that's exactly what you said. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's not unreasonable in many cases to link to a very specific passage of a guideline and expect an editor to understand its meaning as regards a pertinent dispute, but you can't just fail to clearly articulate your argument while also insisting it's vindicated somewhere within the full text of a guideline. Remsense ‥ 论 02:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Content dispute. Bold edits were reverted; next step is discussion, probably at WT:CAT. If there is dispute over interpretation of the guideline you can consider leaving a pointer at WP:VPP. If there are any categories that shouldn't be used at all that can be discussed at WP:CFD. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 03:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    The content dispute could have been discussed on any of the talk pages. Yet it was brought here first. Conyo14 (talk) 06:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    When a content dispute involves several pages it is often though not always best to centralize discussion. Misunderstanding ANIs purpose and bringing content disputes here is a common and understandable error; best just to point people at appropriate WP:DR when that happens. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 06:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Not overly impressed by 43's comments above. But do wish to note that their removal of Category:Corruption from at least one BLP appears to have been correct. The subsequent reversion of that removal is misfortune. Rotary Engine 08:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Unblock request of Rereiw82wi2j

    Blocked, blocked, they're all blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    The user Rereiw82wi2j was blocked for blanking talk page discussions. They were removing discussions they participated in with an now-vanished account, for the purpose of removing their username from the talk page(which isn't removed via a vanishing). I believe that per WP:VANISH their vanishing needs to be reversed, am I correct? Do they need to be asked to resume using that account?(if they can) 331dot (talk) 20:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    It seems to need reverting because with their previous account, they only edited one article/talk page and when asked what articles they wanted to edit with their new account, they just mention this same article. That violates the entire principle of a clean start account. Liz 23:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Could we revoke TPA per this? ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have revoked their talk page access and declined the unblock request. PhilKnight (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    User has created another account Human82. Lavalizard101 (talk) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Also now blocked. GiantSnowman 16:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    There's also User:ResearchAbility now. win8x (talk) 16:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    Blocked by PhilKnight. GiantSnowman 16:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2

    This user has engaged in a lengthy display of disruption. Namely through incessant incivility I have noticed they were previously reported for.

    Instances such as ordering IP editors to stop editing articles, hostilely chastising them, making personal attacks in edit summary on several occasions, etc. Users such as @Waxworker: and @Jon698: can speak to their experiences, I'll outline mine.

    On December 10, I noticed on the article Luca Guadagnino's unrealized projects page several additions were made that didn't adhere to the article's purpose. Zander restored these with an introductory summary rife with bad faith assertions about my intelligence and asserting they'd engage in edit war behavior. For the most part there was an attempt to discuss the issue we had, but ultimately did not see eye to eye. I asserted I'd be escalating the issue to garner more substantive dialogue around it, Zander's response includes a needless "bite me". I made some attempts at engaging the topic at the article's talk page, in addition to WikiProject Film, it was over a week that saw no input. I would go on to state that (at the time) in two days, I would restore the page to it's status quo. I would do so, asking it not to be reverted. Zander reverted anyway, and after another terse interaction, I moved to nominate the article for deletion, finding with the conflicting views of what Unrealized meant, it was too open ended and led to these lists being essentially trivia. Since then, Zander has elected to take an antagonistic approach towards me, making swipes they openly admit add nothing to the discussion threads they're added to, and now that I am putting said comments behind collapsable tables for being offtopic, Zander is now doing the editing equivalent of mockingly repeating me, with edits such as this and this.

    This editor displays no interest in conducting themselves cordially or cooperatively on this website. Rusted AutoParts 23:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    I've given them a warning for canvassing: - The Bushranger One ping only 04:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    And more personal attacks here - The Bushranger One ping only 05:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    And they appear to be continuing editing while ignoring here. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    SPA User:Tikitorch2 back at it on Martin Kulldorff

    Hi, all, I'd like some assistance with the SPA User:Tikitorch2, who's been POV pushing on the Martin Kulldorff article since June. A quick view of their extremely short edit history shows that their sole focus is on pushing a vaccine-denialist POV on that and similar COVID-related topics. Started out on the talk page and BLPN, but now they've graduated to edit-warring on the article itself; they were active in June, made a single related edit in October, but now they appear to be back at it. They've already been notified about the CTOP status of COVID-19, and have received an edit-warring warning--to which they were less than receptive. Would appreciate a more permanent resolution, either a COVID-19 topic ban or just an indef considering their SPA status, so they don't just go back into hibernation and then turn up again like a bad penny. (And yeah, given this context, I don't love the implications of the username "Tikitorch2", either.) Thanks, Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 05:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:Michael.C.Wright? 173.22.12.194 (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
     Looks like a duck to me. I'm sending this to SPI. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    SPI says unrelated, so might just be generic disruption. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    What are you implying with regard to my username? My edit history has been limited to trying to correct two red flags that stood out so much that I followed the citations when I was searching these scientists who were in the news for censorship. It has been enlightening learning how wikipedia selectively chooses secondary sources but discourages the use of primary sources to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible.
    For my two attempted contributions to Misplaced Pages, the two red flags were pretty dramatic to prompt me to check out the citations--Sunetra Gupta's article implied more than 1 in 1000 people in England died from Covid in spring 2020 in an effort to discredit her, which was trivially easy to google as untrue. I corrected that without really changing the overall narrative. The article for Martin Kulldorff...I would probably not have spent time looking at the sources or realized how unscientific Kulldorff's critics were had there not been such superfluous "Wikivoice" editorializing and synthesizing suggesting Kulldorff lied in an essay to the public. Tikitorch2 (talk) 06:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Primary sources are not to be used for anything but simple facts about a subject. They absolutely are not to be used to help discriminate which secondary sources are credible because that is original research. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Not sure why you felt the need to repeat what I said. Maybe I am the sock puppeteer! Tikitorch2 (talk) 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    What I am implying is that such a username in the context of an account pushing COVID-denialist rhetoric that flies in the face of the sources and Misplaced Pages policy is not an accident. Anyway, this editor continues to be a drain of editor time and attention. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Ah an absurd, convoluted, and contrived personal attack. Assuming anyone but you knew tiki torches were present at a political event where someone was killed, why would I choose my username based on that? Tikitorches provide light, warmth, and keep the mosquitos away. I guess its not surprising an editor named writ keeper attacks the editor rather than effectively debating the subject of the edit. Tikitorch2 (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Even if it was a personal attack, making one back isn't going to fly here. Knock it off. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    User:Tikitorch2, your edits are being examined at ANI. This is not a pleasant experience, I'll admit. So, it's best for you not to dig yourself into a hole. I know the instinct is to defend yourself but it doesn't help your situation to come out swinging. It's probably to your benefit to address any concerns that have been raised and say no more than that. Liz 04:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64

    Blocked for one month.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    2601:243:CB00:7F10:0:0:0:0/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued after block expired. /64 has previously been blocked on December 8th for a week due to "Persistent unsourced genre changes", and 2 weeks on September 7th due to addition of unsourced content. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 10:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Disruptive editing Movement for Democracy

    I've protected the page for 24 hours. @Rambling Rambler and @Hellenic Rebel are both warned against edit warring, including during the course of this discussion. RR, HR, and .82 should follow dispute resolution processes. Further disruptive editing or edit warring after page protection expires will result in blocks. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:Hellenic Rebel has been trying for about a month now to put across his own opinion about the party' infobox. An opinion which he cannot back up with any source whatsoever. Although it has been pointed out to him by both the user Rambling Rambler and me, continues the disruptive editing. Ιt is worth noting that although other users made the same "mistake", when the lack of sources to support the addition was pointed out to them, they accepted it and did not continue to try to pass on their own opinion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Movement_for_Democracy_(Greece)#5/300

    https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Movement_for_Democracy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Greek_Rebel#Disruptive_editing....again

    diff1 diff2

    diff3 130.43.66.82 (talk) 19:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    This is a content dispute, not a conduct dispute. Since discussing the issue on article talk has not worked, please follow dispute resolution processes, such as seeking guidance at WT:GREECE or WT:POLITICS, or going to WP:DRN. voorts (talk/contributions) 19:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Voorts taking a look because I've been tagged. While there may be content elements to it I think this has gone into a behavioural issue, namely due to it being a user actively edit warring without providing sources but instead endlessly insisting on edits that are entirely WP:OR. Rambling Rambler (talk) 20:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    It is not a problem of content but of behaviour. His claim is original research, is his own conclusion and is not verified by any source. He knows it, has admitted it, and yet he insists on adding it. 130.43.66.82 (talk) 20:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    (nac) Movement for Democracy is a moderately stable DAB page, with which I have been involved. I assume this dispute relates to Movement for Democracy (Greece). Narky Blert (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Sugar Bear returns with personal attacks

    /24 blocked for two weeks. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Using the IP range Special:Contributions/166.181.224.0/19, Sugar Bear has returned to Misplaced Pages to disrupt film and music articles. After I recognized this fact and began reverting him, Sugar Bear began a campaign of personal attacks at my talk page, using the IP Special:Contributions/166.181.250.216. Can we get a rangeblock?

    There's a decade-plus history of this vandal attacking me, for instance his creation of the username Banksternet. I can spot his contributions quite easily by now. Binksternet (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    .I've blocked the current IP, I may not have time to properly investigate the range right now. Acroterion (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Past disruption from nearby IPs includes the following:
    I've blocked the current /24 for two weeks, but I see a lot of potential for collateral damage for longer or broader blocks. Acroterion (talk) 22:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Comments by Locke Cole

    No support for a block for either party, and filer is fine with closure. Star Mississippi 16:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Involved: Locke Cole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) So I honestly think we should both receive a (24 hr) block for our behavior, but bringing it here for that to happen. This started when I posted a list of "keep" votes with no rationale at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2024 December 21. Comments made by Locke Cole in response to the list include:

    • Sour grapes are over there, in case you're lost.
    I replied to this with What?? Voting on an AfD should be policy-based, not just "keep" or "he's too notable". I'm giving evidence to my claim that keep votes were given unnecessarily large amounts of weight when closing this. Yes, I left out the ones with evidence, because that wasn't the point of the list. Again, would you give weight to the five keep votes that just said "keep"? I believe this is the second time I've had to say this to you, but way to WP:ABF.
    • Well, you're already violating WP:DRVPURPOSE #8 by casting WP:ASPERSIONS about other editors. Carry on, I look forward to seeing you blocked for being an idiot.
    And I replied to this one with Yes, I removed a comment after realizing it violated our aspersions policy. Do you have an issue with that? Feel free to take this to ANI if you want to continue, as it’s clogging up the DRV.

    This user has a long history of behavioral blocks, including six civility blocks over a span of nine years. Since this behavior clearly won't be getting better, bringing it here. It's up to y'all to decide if a BOOMERANG should happen, if we should both be blocked, or only one party gets the hammer. :) EF 02:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    I'm not sure that the cited comments are in themselves enough to justify a block. I also note that LC has recently suffered a personal loss. Speaking from experience, I can state that when in deep mourning we are not always at our best. That said, I find LC's block log disturbing.-Ad Orientem (talk) 02:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    While I do get that, and I do respect that and am deeply sorry that happened to them, this behavior has been going on since late 2005, and includes an arbitration request, hence why I brought it directly here. Calling me an "idiot" was 100% an NPA vio, and having a personal loss shouldn't excuse that (also speaking from experience with the loss of my mother from Cancer of unknown primary origin in 2014). This is a rare case where I'll say that a block log should give you an idea of whether this behavior will continue. EF 02:56, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    bolding policies I've added at the end - I'll just note that every one of the "policies" you linked to (bar WP:ABF, where I'm pretty sure you wanted WP:AGF) goes to Misplaced Pages:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. Which is very useful and well-thought-out, and by all means should be used as a tool at AfD, but is not policy. It's an essay on policy. There's a difference. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Okay then, per that I've removed the list. The comments still stand though. EF 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    • So the OP wants themselves and the other party to receive blocks for incivility? Why don't you just stop being rude to each other? Change your own behavior. Opening this discussion is just drawing attention to a few comments that otherwise would have likely been forgotten. I don't see how this post helps the situation at all. Just do better. And if Locke Cole comes to this discussion, I pray this doesn't devolve into bickering. Let's all just get back to editing productively and not taking shots at each other. Liz 05:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
      I don’t know, maybe I just thought it’d continue and brought it here, likely too early. Is it possible to close this? EF 13:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    From what I read from the DRV, it definitely seemed like it got heated, but it definitely seemed to cool down. Trouts for sure, but I don't see why blocks are necessary. As for you, given that you're asking to be punished, you seem to recognize what you did wrong, and you pledge to not continue this behavior. Just change your password for a day or a week and change it back later; I don't think admin intervention is necessarily warranted. guninvalid (talk) 11:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Though as actual admins above have mentioned, their block history is indeed concerning. guninvalid (talk) 11:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User talk:International Space Station0

    Just officially closing this discussion as the account involved has been globally blocked. If an editor has Spore on your Watchlist and you see this occurring again, contact your local administrator. Liz 06:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    This user made 500 edits to their user page which were all completely useless (Misplaced Pages:Gaming the system to inflate their edit count) and then once receiving extended-confirmed permissions vandalized Spore (2008 video game) by copypasting another article. Their user page shows them editing and counting to 500. jolielover♥talk 04:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    It's a WP:DUCK, and I just reported to AIV. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 04:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Would it be possible to put up some kind of filter to alert for this? Something that…say…catches when more than 25 edits are made in a single space (user space for example) or something that would trip if the edits added less than 5 characters consistently? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:B32F:11B9:7980:86CC:720C:8B57 (talk) 05:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    There is a filter for this. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=International+Space+Station0&offset=20241222044736, "New account unusual activity" covers exactly this. win8x (talk) 05:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    POV IP editor and 2024 Kobani clashes

    Blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    This this IP address engages in BLP and POV pushing with things like this 1 and this 2, and then edit warring and then makes personal attacks like this 3, in a source documenting casualties for all of December instead of the specific date, and then when he is reverted by another editor respond with this. I believe this person is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia, and also the 2024 Kobani clashes article should potentially be given semi-protection status as it's part of the Syrian Civil War which has discretionary sanctions. Thanks. Des Vallee (talk) 05:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Oh also this. Des Vallee (talk) 05:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Blocked – for a period of 72 hours (User talk:88.243.192.169#Block) and pages protected El_C 13:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Promotional content about Elvenking (band)

    There does not appear to be an actionable COI here, just an avid fan. Content issues can be handled through the appropriate channels. @Elvenlegions: please be mindful of musical notability and what Misplaced Pages is and isn't for. Star Mississippi 17:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


    I noticed a consistent addition of promotional content about an apparently unencyclopedic band, namely Elvenking (band), with articles being also dedicated to each band member (eg. Aydan Baston and Damnagoras) and their unsold discography, which also got a dedicated template ({{Elvenking}}). I also noticed a weird pattern by User:Elvenlegions, which appears to be either a very big fan or in conflict of interests, as well as other accounts apparently created just to support the band (eg. User:Neverbuilt2last). — Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 05:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    I am indeed a big fan of the band and am trying to update the band's wikipedia information to make it as accurate as possible so people can learn about the band. I hope this helps support the band and also helps wikipedia readers and users who wish to learn more about the band. Elvenlegions (talk) 06:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Understood, Elvenlegions, but Misplaced Pages is not a webhost or a promotional site. If the band, nor its members, nor its discography qualify as notable under the standards we set for musical notability, then the band's fans will have to learn about it elsewhere. Ravenswing 07:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Disruptive editor on When the Pawn...

    User User:Longislandtea has repeatedly removed reliably sourced refs to the genres infobox by removing alternative pop simply because they don't believe it to be correct as the ref is "new" and that the artist isn't that genre. I had sent them two warnings now and also explained that's not how this works, so they decided to add more genres with refs that don't even mention the genres they included. I do not believe this editor is going to cooperate. Pillowdelight (talk) 08:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:Pillowdelight changed the genre list of When the Pawn... which originally had been a variation of certain genres: Art pop, jazz rock, art rock, alternative rock, jazz pop, chamber pop, all of which are somewhat accurate and agreed upon by various editors of this page over many years. It was changed to just Alt pop, a genre that is used to describe the newer sounds of pop in the early 2010s with Lorde, Sky Ferreira and Lana del rey. It is not a genre that fits the album hence it has never before user:Pillowdelight been described as such beyond what her poor source says, a Fiona Apple revisit (that is not even about When the pawn.. specifically) from a new, small and virtually unheard of web magazine. Sources such as Rateyourmusic, allmusic and Pitchfork are far more accurate and robust and that's why this album has never been described as alt pop. That genre did not exist at the time of the release of the album. The source needs to be accurate, it is not. It's not an album review, it is a fluff article about Fiona Apple by a small web magazine. It's not even about When the pawn... specifically, it makes no sense. I think the other editors agree, it is inaccurate.
    Allmusic and pitchfork are far better sources. I have added both as sources. I didn't change the genre list, I simply changed it back to the genre list that had stood there the longest before user:Pillowdelight changed it a few months ago for the first time, having never touched this page before yet complaining about other editors. Longislandtea (talk) 18:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Longislandtea: I removed the genres because they're unsourced, which I stated in many edit summaries you keep reverting, as well as on your talk page. It doesn't matter that just because you believe a source another user added calling the album alternative pop is incorrect and unreliable because it's "new, small and virtually unheard of" is a ridiculously excuse. Read Template:Infobox album it states — genres must be stated and referenced in the body of the article; personal opinions or original research must not be included. The sources you have added specifically from Pitchfork don't state the genres you've listed. Pillowdelight (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sources need to be legitimate and relevant. Your source is not relevant and it is disputed. Pitchfork is added because they describe the album as an alternative album several times in the review and the genre category is ROCK. What is alternative and rock? Alternative rock. That is how the album was marketed. You can't cherrypick a single article to make a case for a genre that the album absolutely is not in. I will remove the Pitchfork source, that's fine. There's numerous ones including from Allmusic that clearly state that it is an alternative rock album. The album was even added to Misplaced Pages's page for alt rock albums ages ago. This is very uncontroversial. Just having alternative rock is also lacking; jazz fusion, art pop (the album is already added on the wikipedia page for art pop albums) and art rock are accurate too and have been there for ages but alas! Let's get rid of it all to only serve your opinion. Numerous albums have unsourced genres might I add, but the vast of amount of editors agree to it because they know these accurately describe the album, these are the scenes that the album and artist comes from and sourcing for genres can often times be lacking. In that case, rather than trying to look for BAD sources, it's better to agree with the consensus. In our case, we do have sources. Rateyourmusic has been used as a source for adding art pop, alternative rock, jazz pop, fusion, art rock and chamber pop as genres before. Longislandtea (talk) 20:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Here's the page for what is considered acceptable sources Misplaced Pages:Acceptable sources (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs).
    Relevance. Sources must be relevant--there must be some reason for the reader to care about what the author has to say. For example, the opinion of a random individual on the presidency of George W. Bush, as published in a letter to the editor of a major newspaper, is not relevant; and thus should not be included--even though it is published, traceable to its author, and given in a reputable publication. Relevance can be imputed several ways--through explicit personal knowledge, through subject-matter authority, through general notability of the author, through demonstrable correlation with the opinion(s) of a large group of people, etc.
    A large group of people, the editors of When the Pawn...'s page throughout the years, thousands of people on music reviewing sites and numerous music journalists from legitimate publications do not agree with what this one article you cherrypicked states.
    Note that this policy is the minimum standard for inclusion as a reference in Misplaced Pages. Sources may meet this standard and still not be authoritative, reliable, accurate, free from bias, or undisputed. Sources which meet this minimum standard but which fail to meet stricter standards may be used, but should be used with caution. In particular, such sources should be explicitly attributed to their author(s) or publisher(s) in an article's prose (rather than being presented as fact with the author only given in the notes), and disputes considering the source's veracity should be described.
    Meaning you can't just add any genre because some random source says it when it goes against larger and more reliable sources as well as it is controversial.
    Thank you and please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand. Longislandtea (talk) 21:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    WP:NOTVAND. Note that accusing editors of vandalism when they are not, in fact, vandalising can be considered a personal attack, so I'd suggest you strike that comment. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Okay, I strike. Longislandtea (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    You didn't actually strike any comments. To do so, do this <s>Comment</s> which will make it look like this Comment. Liz 22:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    please stop vandalizing pages on topics of music you do not understand. Longislandtea (talk) 22:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Longislandtea: How is the source considered not relevant and where was this dispute? AllMusic does not call the album alternative rock at all within its article. Rate Your Music is also not a source it's user generated which is against Misplaced Pages. I really wish an admin would comment on this because this is getting absolutely nowhere. Pillowdelight (talk) 21:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Here's another source describing it as an alternative rock and jazz fusion album
    https://www.the-solute.com/the-solute-record-club-fiona-apple-when-the-pawn/
    Alt pop is not accurate. If you're so adamant about alt pop, please argue why. It is completely inaccurate and you have one singular source over music journalists and music sites. Allmusic does categorize it as alternative rock, Pitchfork has categorized it as rock since 1999 of its release. There was NO Alt-pop at the time. It still isn't. These are different genres. Art pop is not Alt pop. You edited the page one time in October 2024 only to get rid of the genre list that editors agreed upon to add Alt pop which makes no sense whatsoever. Longislandtea (talk) 21:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have now added a new source to the genre list. If you have any problems with the new source, tell me. But it's much more accurate this way. It's still sad to see the whole genre list that was originally there, so much more descriptive and fitting, hacked away but oh well. Longislandtea (talk) 21:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Pitchfork's categorizations mean basically nothing. They have ten categories, one of which is "Pop/R&B", and another of which is "Global". By the way, you should just stop caring about this, because sources misclassify genres of music chronically and everywhere you look. Take your passion to RateYourMusic. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    All of this discussion should be taking place on the article's talk page (which neither editor has used). Schazjmd (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Schazjmd: I'm awaiting for an admin to respond. This conversation is getting nowhere hence the reason why I brought it here in the first place. I've tried to explain to the user on their talk page along with this entire thread and it's getting nowhere. @The Bushranger: you left a comment but could you please share your opinion on the dispute? Or possibly ping an admin who's familiar with music if this isn't your area of familiarity? Pillowdelight (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    There was no reason to bring this conversation here. I talked to you directly but go no real reply or any arguments despite adding sources and explaining why it's not an Alt pop album. I've explained to you well enough. Please stop trying to get admins to ban me simply because I (and other editors) recognize that the genre list that you got rid of was far more fitting. There's a new genre list now with sources but it is not Alt-pop. The album was already added to the wikipedia album pages for Alternative rock and art pop. I'm familiar with these genres and Fiona Apple specifically to know that it's accurate hence why the genre list has been that way for years. If you're adamant about sources, there is a source. Accusing me of not sourcing should be considered a false accusation at this point. Not all sources are equal either and I've tried explaining that to you. Longislandtea (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Pillowdelight, you were given good advice which is to have this discussion on the article talk page which neither editor has posted at yet. This is a content dispute. If no action has been taken yet by an administrator, it's likely because they don't agree with your statement that action needs to be taken. Liz 22:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Okay, will do. Thank you Liz. Pillowdelight (talk) 22:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Irrelevant sources and unnecessary changes to genre list on When the Pawn... (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

    On October 22 2024, User:Pillowdelight (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) changed the genre list that has stood in place for years and has been a variation of the same variety of genres: Art pop, art rock, jazz, alternative rock, jazz rock, chamber pop and jazz pop. Across the biggest music sites, this is what the album is described as. The user changed it to Alt pop using a single irrelevant and unreliable source. The album is not described as such anywhere else. The user is going against the general consensus. Sources have now been added to the genre list and I don't feel as though that would mean I'm breaking any rules. The user is threatening to get another editor banned because they're uncooperative with how us other editors feel the genre list should look like. It's an album that has been categorized as rock by Pitchfork at the time of its release and was added to rock charts when released too. Here's how the genre list has looked over a long period of time, without much controversy from editors not readers: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1178937091 from 2023

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=When_the_Pawn...&oldid=1049316366 from 2021

    Thank you. Longislandtea (talk) 19:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Why do people have to argue about what genre music is rather than just listening to it, and hopefully enjoying it? Phil Bridger (talk) 19:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The genre list was fine and accurate and uncontroversial until this user decided to remove the entire thing. It's important that the genre list is accurate. People find albums through genres. There's other reasons as well. Longislandtea (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is neither here nor there, but I thought albums are generally sorted in alphabetical order by band name or the musician's last name.
    Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or my information is incomplete. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 22:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    I was trying to explain the important of listing genres accurately. If you go to a record store then yes, albums are listed in alphabetical order. But they're still put in categories of genres. Longislandtea (talk) 22:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    If we were going to list musical genres "accurately," we wouldn't bother at all. Except in very broad strokes ("rock," "punk," "Baroque," etc), so many of these horribly subjective "genres" are made up by bored media writers and bands that hate the notion of being The Same As Everyone Else. Get ten people to listen to ten different tracks of heavy metal, and you won't get as many as a third of them agreeing on any of them on the doom/grudge/dark/death/Goth/Viking/sludge/*-grind/*-core/etc etc etc spectrum. Beyond that, arguing whether any given artist is "that genre" is very highly subjective. (Hell, I've sung Baroque, classical, folk, rock, ethnic, shape note, so many genres I can't readily count.) Ravenswing 15:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Bunch of racist IPs/account

    Sent packing. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Article: Anti-Turkish sentiment

    Beshogur (talk) 13:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Named account indeffed, IPs blocked for 72 hours each. GiantSnowman 14:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Urgent need for page protection on BLP

    Protection applies. Appears admin eyes are on the Talk page. Star Mississippi 19:53, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    There is currently a content dispute going on at Kay Granger involving allegations of a mental health crisis with mulitple IPs involved in a dispute over wether the information is reliable or not. A discussion is underway on the article's talkpage, but in the meantime there is revert warring taking place on the article. The page could really benefit from temporary semi protection. -- Lenny Marks (talk) 18:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Looks like User:Schwede66 got it. DMacks (talk) 19:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DMacks: Thanks! Yeah. I assume they will also need a third-party closer given the heated nature of the argument. -- Lenny Marks (talk) 19:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Multiple users breaking 3RR on Gilman School article

    Two users are actively engaged in an ongoing edit war on Gilman School, with both Counterfeit_Purses (talk · contribs · logs · block log) breaking 3RR 1, 2, 3, 4 and Statistical_Infighting (talk · contribs · logs · block log) being right at 3 Reverts 1, 2, 3.

    This seems to go back to December 9th, with the first editor (Counterfeit) removing it here and here, again on the 17th, 18th, and then being at the above today.

    Awshort (talk)

    Counterfeit Purses, please be aware that the Luigi Mangione article was kept in a recent Articles for Deletion debate, so the consensus of the community is that he is notable. Edit warring to keep his name off the alumni list is a really bad idea. Cullen328 (talk) 20:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Cullen328 No problem, I've already given up. I would argue that WP:NOTNEWS applies here, but there's no sense in pushing against the tide. If you're content to have the lede section of Gilman School include "prominent graduates including "alleged murderer Luigi Mangione", I guess that's fine. It seems to be an unusual thing to include and an obvious case of undue weight given to something that is in the news at the moment. Perhaps someone should start a Wikiproject to add famous murderers to the ledes of other schools? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Counterfeit Purses, in my view, WP:NOTNEWS is among our most misunderstood policy documents. It begins In principle, all Misplaced Pages articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events. I believe that Mangione is notable, the evolving article is acceptable, and his name belongs in the alumni list. Many, many "bad people" are listed as alumni in countless school articles, and it is not at all unusual. The only unusual thing here is that the lead of this particular school article lists alumni, and so I have removed them from the lead. Cullen328 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm glad that misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS is so common because I am going to continue to misunderstand it. I see that Liz removed Luigi Mangione from the lede before you removed the rest of the list. Acknowledging again that I have given up hope that Mangione will be removed from this article, let me ask you what you think the purpose of these alumni lists is? Including Mangione is an editorial decision. We don't include all notable alumni in these lists, so why should we include Mangione, and why now? It's too soon to know if he will have lasting relevance. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    We don't include all notable alumni in these lists Why not? If someone is Wikinotable and went to a Wikinotable school, then they belong in the "Notable alumni" section of that school's page, Q.E.D. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    @The Bushranger I'm not saying "we shouldn't", I'm saying "we don't". We don't include every notable alumnus in these lists, nor should we because it would lead to long, unhelpful lists stuck in the middle of articles about the schools. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 04:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    If an alumni list bloats an article, it can be split out. See Category:Lists of people by school affiliation. 11:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC) (Oops, signing) Narky Blert (talk) 16:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Of course that's always an option, but what I am saying is that it isn't desirable to have every alumnus listed in an article for a school. Ideally, it would be a selection of alumni who have made significant achievements in their field. Otherwise, it's just trivia. Am I wrong? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes. You're making a value judgment that some alumni (with articles, else they most definitely should not be included) are more notable than others. That is WP:OR. Narky Blert (talk) 20:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, that's called editorial judgment. Just like deciding not to include every known fact about something in an article. At some point, it is just trivia. Misplaced Pages is not a database. That info would probably be welcome over on Wikidata, which is a database. Alternatively, someone could just add Category:Gilman School alumni (in this case). Counterfeit Purses (talk) 20:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    And a new user, who doesn't understand categories and has no idea Wikidata exists, is relying on the list on the page. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Persistent addition of unsourced content by 2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64, yet again

    Genre warrior sent packing. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    2600:480A:4A72:6000:0:0:0:0/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, hasn't responded to warnings, and continued the same behaviour immediately following the end of a 3 month block. See block log and the two previous ANI threads from September (1, 2) related to this /64. Recent examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 20:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    I see the genre warriors are out today. Don't you realise how childish you are? (Not you, Waxworker.) Phil Bridger (talk) 20:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    I thought I was the only one who noticed how many were running rampant today. So exhausting. . . Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    /64 blocked for six months. Acroterion (talk) 22:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:NoahBWill2002

    NOTHERE blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    It looks like there's a pretty severe competence is required issue with this user. Virtually every one of their edits has had to be reverted either for adding copyrighted content/derivative works, adding their own art to Fan art (and then doing it again after being warned), or adding personal opinion to articles. Lastly this comment is quite inappropriate and indicates that they're unlikely to learn from any of this.
    (As an aside, I just blocked them on Commons for uploading non-free files after warnings (and having copyright/the issue with their uploads explained them in detail) and uploading out-of-scope files after warnings.)
    I think admin action is warranted here. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    I 100% agree with The Squirrel Conspiracy on this. User:NoahBWill2002 appears completely unable to comprehend and/or follow some of the core rules of Misplaced Pages, especially WP:COPYVIO and WP:NPOV, despite multiple editors trying to help them understand. The comment that Squirrel Conspiracy highlighted, followed by a series of blatant copyright violations, makes it abundantly clear that this editor is not going to change and is not here to build an encyclopedia. Opolito (talk) 22:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    They have only had an account for a few days. It's seems rather soon to proclaim they are "not going to change". The images they were trying to add have been deleted from the Commons, let's see if they can find other ways to contribute to the project now that they can't promote their artwork here. Liz 23:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Given this comment, I'm not sanguine about their intention to contribute productively. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    They added this grossly inappropriate religious screed to Babylon on their third day of editing, then they responded to a warning about it with more proselytizing. I had hoped they would get the message but just today they made this non-NPOV edit apparently based on their religious beliefs. Apart from religious edits, apparently the only other thing they've done is add self-produced fan art to a variety of articles. I'm willing to AGF while they learn what are acceptable edits here but I'd like to see some acknowledgement from them that they understand why all their edits so far have been unacceptable. (It would also show good faith if they would clean up the now-broken links in numerous articles now that their fan art has been deleted from Commons, rather than leaving it for other editors to do.) CodeTalker (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have indefinitely blocked NoahBWill2002 as not here to build an encyclopedia. Cullen328 (talk) 01:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Vandal encounter

    This IP seems to be a vandal who seems to be ready to start an edit war. I have reverted their disruptive edits, and they have begun to add them back.

    diffs:

    I would have put this at AIV, but I have no clue how to edit source. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 23:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

     Not done - Not an admin - I hate to be that person but unfortunately you've not sufficiently warned them, They've only received one warning and their edits aren't gross vandalism so this would only be declined by an admin anyway, If they continue I'll report them to AIV, Thanks, –Davey2010 23:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    Ah, I see. Thank you! This has been noted for the future. Thank you, again! Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
    You're welcome, Happy editing, Thanks, –Davey2010 23:51, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:GDJackAttack1 mass-creating articles for non-notable or nonexistent places

    GDJackAttack1 has agreed to no further creation of the problematic articles. Extant ones being handled via usual channels. No further action needed here. Star Mississippi 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    GDJackAttack1 (talk · contribs) has been mass-creating stub articles for places such as insignificant residential subdivisions and other localities in Alabama and Maryland (example), islands in the Bahamas and Senegal (example), and other insignificant highways and airports around the world. None of these articles are sourced by anything that verifies notability, just databases and maps, which has resulted in at least one article being pointed out as a map misreading and therefore nonexistent community at this AfD. I can only speculate how many more of these places do not exist and if any of them are phantom settlements.

    There are too many of these articles to send through AfD or PROD manually and there is really no point in draftifying them or converting the articles into redirects since we have little proof that these topics are notable or even exist at all. Their talk page consists of nothing but notices of their articles being moved to the draftspace, AfD/PROD notices, and messages informing them to be more careful about article creation, yet they have seemingly ignored these messages and have persisted with spamming these stub articles for no clear reason. Waddles 🗩 🖉 01:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    I will stop creating these articles. GDJackAttack1 (talk) 01:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I tagged one as CSD A7 to see if that would work. Bgsu98 (Talk) 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Bgsu98: Thank you, I also considered PROD-ing them all but I noticed you have so already. Waddles 🗩 🖉 02:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I think I got all of the ones that that Maryland batch, but I’m sure there are more. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:Glenn103

    Glenn103 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been mass creating unsourced stubs about Cyrillic letters, most of which have been draftified. They've also disruptively edited in the past, such as: ''']''' (talk • contribs) 01:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Most of these pages don't even make any sense (eg.: Draft:Yery with tilde). The user also ignores any notice about his articles being moved to draftspace by simply recreating duplicates of them (eg.: Draft:Tse with caron & Tse with caron). Immediate action may be needed. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 07:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Given a uw-create4im with directions to come here, let's see what happens. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    They've continued editing, this time adding infoboxes to the articles, so I don't think the warning worked... ''']''' (talk • contribs) 08:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have blocked them from article space and page moves, and will leave note on talk page to come here. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 15:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Honestly, this almost feels like trolling. Their basic procedure seems to be: pick a random Cyrillic letter. Combine it with a random diacritic. Write a short stub on the combination, saying effectively "this letter combination is not used anywhere." The occasional historical mentions ("this combination was used in such-and-such obscure Siberian language") are completely unsourced, of course. (Everything is unsourced.) Oddwood (talk) 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Excuse me for detracting from the report, but this was your 4th edit, your last edit was in January 2016... how have you found yourself here of all places?
    I mean you might have a point, but wow. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 04:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Similar behavior to PickleMan500 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) and other socks puppeted by Abrown1019 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki), which also made tons of drafts on Cyrillic characters that cited few sources (and none with in-depth coverage). Most drafts have been WP:G5'd, of course, so only those with admin perms can verify the deleted contribs. Since these socks have been banned (WP:3X), I haven't notified them of this discussion. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    TPA for 83.106.86.95

    Done. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    83.106.86.95 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Could someone revoke TPA for blocked IP, based on ? LizardJr8 (talk) 02:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Done and revdel'ed, thanks to JJMC89. LizardJr8 (talk) 02:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Can you please help?

    William Swainson got moved from William John Swainson (because his middle name might not be John). But the talk page for this person is at Talk:William John Swainson, and the talk page for the disambiguation page is at Talk:William Swainson. I don't know what happened to the disambiguation page, and I don't know how to fix this. Oholiba (talk) 02:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

     Done Couldn't be moved because the target page had to be deleted; its now fixed. As a note for the future, WP:AN would be a better place for this, since it isn't an 'incident'. That said - was there a dab page at William Swainson before? - The Bushranger One ping only 02:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Thanks to everyone for resolving this. As to the place for this, at some point I was told that "if you're a new user you have no reason to post at WP:AN" or something similar. I appreciate the help. Oholiba (talk) 05:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    (edit conflict) I think that the disambiguation page's revisions were merged into the history of the moved page, if I'm reading Special:Log/Shyamal correctly.
    @Shyamal, can you confirm what happened/fix this? – 2804:F1...60:4C25 (::/32) (talk) 02:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Actually, WAS that the intention (merging the histories)? I have no idea how this works.
    Maybe The Bushranger already did all that needed to be done. – 2804:F1...60:4C25 (::/32) (talk) 02:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    (edited): There was a dab page with two entries. It is now a redirect from William Swainson to William John Swainson and the direction is now different. The full histories are (merged) restored and visible. PS: I have added a hat-note to the one other (far less notable) lawyer - William Swainson (lawyer) - if there are many more entries to be dealt with then the (currently a redirect) page at William_Swainson_(disambiguation) could be reinstated/used. Shyamal (talk) 02:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    (nac) An intitle search turned up no other William Swainson, so I've tagged William Swainson (disambiguation) (which has no significant history) for speedying under WP:G14. Narky Blert (talk) 06:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    POVPushingTheTruth

    The truth may set you free, but WP:THETRUTH will get you blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:POVPushingTheTruth is clearly NOTHERE. C F A 05:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Blocked. -- Euryalus (talk)| — Preceding undated comment added 05:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    North Korean involvement in Russian-Ukraine war discussion

    The inclusion of North Korea as a belligerent in the infobox for the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" article has been a point of extensive and protracted discussion since September. A formal Request for Comment (RfC) on this matter ran for several weeks and was closed with a clear consensus to include North Korea as a combatant based on reliable sources and expert analysis. However, despite the closure, the discussion has continued unabated across multiple threads, with certain editors repeatedly rehashing resolved points and questioning the validity of reliable sources, leading to significant disruption.

    Key Points:

    1. Prolonged Discussions and RfC Closure:
      • The RfC on North Korea's inclusion was conducted thoroughly, with a wide range of arguments presented by both sides.
      • The closing administrator, S Marshall, determined there was a clear consensus to include North Korea as a belligerent based on reliable sources and the strength of arguments.
      • The close explicitly allowed for reevaluation if new battlefield events or sources emerged, but no substantial new evidence has invalidated the prior consensus.
    2. Ongoing Disruption:
      • Despite the RfC's resolution, the same arguments are being repeated across multiple threads, often by the same editors.
      • This behavior includes undermining reliable sources, misrepresenting their content, and insisting on a higher standard of verification (e.g., requiring firsthand evidence of North Korean combat, which is unreasonable given the context).
    3. Reliable Sources Confirming North Korean Involvement:
      • Multiple reputable outlets, including the BBC, Reuters, and Pentagon statements, confirm North Korean military involvement and casualties in the conflict.
      • Experts from institutions like Chatham House and RUSI have explicitly stated North Korea's role in combat, aligning with the community's decision.
    4. Impact on the Community:
      • The continued disruption consumes editor time and resources, detracting from the article's improvement.
      • These actions disregard Misplaced Pages's consensus-building principles and guidelines for resolving disputes. This dispute has been ongoing for months, with multiple threads being opened and closed on the same topic.

    Request for Administrative Action:

    I respectfully request that administrators address the following issues:

    1. Enforce the consensus reached in the closed RfC, as no new evidence significantly alters the previous conclusions.
    2. Discourage editors from rehashing resolved discussions, particularly when arguments have been repeatedly addressed and dismissed.
    3. Consider imposing a topic ban or other appropriate measures on editors who persist in disrupting the article with repetitive or bad-faith arguments.

    This matter has been discussed exhaustively, and it is essential to prioritize Misplaced Pages's goals of maintaining a high-quality, well-sourced, and consensus-driven encyclopedia. Thank you for your attention to this matter. UPDATE: I just noticed that North Korea was removed as a belligerent and added to the 'supported by' section, completely violating the consensus. Rc2barrington (talk) 08:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Since this report isn't really about an incident and your request is directed towards admins, I think this complaint would be better placed at WP:AN rather than ANI. It will also need more specifics, which articles, which edits, which editors. You'll need to provide that. I also question whether or not these are content standards that the community can't handle on their own. Liz 09:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I was going to post it at WP:AN but it said: "This noticeboard is for issues affecting administrators generally – announcements, notifications, information, and other matters of general administrator interest.
    If your post is about a specific problem you have (a dispute, user, help request, or other narrow issue needing an administrator), you should post it at the Administrators' noticeboard for incidents (ANI) instead. Thank you."
    I posted it on ANI beecause my specific problem was this dispute Rc2barrington (talk) 12:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The original post in this thread appears to resemble LLM output. GPTzero confirms this impression, rating text as "99% probability AI generated". Using AI to generate ANI submissions is highly inappropriate. Axad12 (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Even when a message appears to be AI-generated, I think it is worth considering whether or not it is pointing out an actual problem. I think editors might be ignoring the results of an RFC, I just don't think asking for administrators to monitor a subject area, without identifying specific articles, is a feasible solution. It does seem like, possibly, a point that could come up in a complaint at AE regarding the Ukraine CTOP area. Liz 19:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I had a peek and it's a messy RfC and, as is generally the case with a messy RfC had a very involved closure message which seems to reflect that the closer felt constrained by the framing of the RfC. I didn't see any immediate indication in the edit history that anyone had tried to implement the RfC result and been rebuffed (although I might have missed it). So there's some smoke here but, I think, not a ton of fire. Simonm223 (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Liz, I don't disagree but I'm not at all convinced that use of AI is a positive contribution to CTOP areas. Axad12 (talk) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    It was written with AI assistance. Not all AI. ai detectors aren’t considered reliable, because you can put the U.S. constitution through one and it says 100% AI generated. Regardless, whether it’s AI or not has nothing to do with the topic. It’s just that there’a been so many discussions and when I checked the info box it said ‘supported by”, violating the consensus of the RFC Rc2barrington (talk) 12:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    I think the underlying issue here is that if you use AI to generate text which looks like obvious AI output then readers will wonder "does the end user even have sufficient English to understand what the AI has generated for them?" and "did the end user understand the material prior to deciding to employ AI?". Thus if a user is fluent in English, as you obviously are, it will always be better to communicate in your own voice.
    At the end of the day, a user making a valid point in their own voice is generally speaking going to be taken more seriously than a user employing LLM output.
    There are plenty of other reasons for users not to employ AI (see the recent thread here for extensive coverage) but the argument above seems like a good practical reason for fluent English speakers to always prefer using their own voice.
    You will see from the recent thread that many users here are vehemently against AI use. Axad12 (talk) 15:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    I understood the material very well, its not like I just used 100% AI out of nowhere. I know the context. I have been involved in this discussion since September. Rc2barrington (talk) 16:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's a respect thing. It's disrespectful of other editors to make them read chatbot output rather than your words. Simonm223 (talk) 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Dispute Over Edits and Use of British Raj Sources

    Content dispute.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hello,

    I’m seeking administrator input regarding a dispute with @Ratnahastin over the content in the the "Kamaria Ahir" article. The editor removed significant content, citing User:Sitush/CasteSources as justification. Here are my concerns:

    1. Misapplication of Policy:

    Sitush’s essays are not official Misplaced Pages policy. Content decisions should follow WP:RS, WP:NPOV, and WP:VERIFIABILITY.

    2. Dismissal of Reliable Sources:

    The removed content was based on British Raj-era sources, which are neutral and historically significant. The editor claims these are unreliable without specific evidence or discussion on the article’s talk page.

    3. Unilateral Edits and Dismissive Behavior:

    Despite my attempts to discuss the matter constructively, the editor dismissed my concerns as "AI-generated" and warned me about sanctions under WP:GSCASTE and WP:ARBIPA, discouraging collaboration.Check here for the warning

    Evidence:

    Diff of my original version

    Diff of their first edit

    Diff of their second edit

    Ratnahastin talk page


    Request for Administrative Action:

    1. Review the removed content and the editor’s justification.

    2. Ensure that disputes are discussed on the article’s talk page.

    3. Address the editor’s dismissive tone to foster collaboration.

    4. Prevent further disruptive edits/vandalism by IP editors (which hasn't happened yet) And from Autoconfirmed users(e.g. @GrilledSeatJet , -Their Diff) and even from Extended Autoconfirmed users(@Ratnahastin) by banning such editors and putting an extended protection on the Article which I have once put request (please find it here) for but it got denied and now the results are as follows.

    Thank you for your time and attention. I’m happy to provide further information if needed.

    Best Regards

    --- Nlkyair012 (talk) 10:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Nothing to say about me really bot

    Locked (non-admin closure). C F A 13:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Please delete the user page, block the bot and report to stewards for a global block, as per m:NTSAMR. Thank you! 81.2.123.64 (talk) 11:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Concern About a New Contributor

    Kriji Sehamati (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Dear Wikipedians,

    I hope you’re doing well. I wanted to inform you about a new contributor @Kriji Sehamati, despite lacking experience, has repeatedly attempted to vandalize multiple articles. These articles were properly aligned with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and reviewed by experienced contributors, but he/she seemed unwilling to understand or respect their adherence to the policies.

    I believe your experience could help address this situation effectively.

    Looking forward to your advice on how to proceed.

    Thankyou! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    "Vandalize" is a very loaded word here with a specific meaning. As far as I can tell, what they've done is nominate 4 articles for deletion, and your response has been to accuse them of vandalism, ignoring dispute resolution procedures and making personal attacks – none of which I can see at a glance through their contributions.
    Perhaps if you supplied evidence of this behaviour, someone would be able to help? If your issue is that they've nominated 4 articles of which you are a major contributor and are doing so by going through your contributions in order to find articles to nominate for deletion with specious reasons, then this board would be the place to come. If not, then making your arguments for keeping the articles on the AfDs in question would be your best bet.
    By the way is forum shopping. Stop that. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    (ec) This is an odd one. As S-Aura failed to provide diffs, I looked at Kriji Sehamati's contribution history. New account (9 Dec) began editing today, created two drafts and made a bunch of edits to those. Then began adding COI tags to articles S-Aura wrote, nominated those articles for deletion, and then left a possible UPE template on S-Aura's talk page. Really seems to be something weird going on here between those two. (In addition to opening this ANI thread, S-Aura asked for help with basically the same message on the talk pages of Ipigott, Ryan shell, CFA, and BusterD, and S-Aura opened same complaint at AN.) Schazjmd (talk) 16:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I am concerned that User:Kriji_Sehamati’s actions, including unjustified deletion nominations and spamming, are disruptive and violate Misplaced Pages’s guidelines.
    She seems to lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related WP:GNG and WP:NPOL. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    You were asked to provide diffs. You did, almost, here but then reverted yourself. Those diffs (well, the ones before those diffs) are just the other user nominating articles for deletion (which is allowed) or tagging them for what they believe to be conflict of interest edits (which is also allowed).
    Please provide some actual evidence that the other user is engaging in chronic, intractable behaviour, rather than just not editing how you would like them to. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Here are some diffs highlighting her problematic edits. However, I believe that many of her contributions may be in violation of Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. It appears she has specifically targeted me and added the COI tag multiple times to the same page. I would appreciate it if you could review her actions more thoroughly:
    •
    •
    •
    •
    and many more
    Thankyou! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    We wouldn't generally treat an AfD as vandalism. Simonm223 (talk) 17:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I understand your point about AfDs not generally being treated as vandalism. However, I noticed that the major contribution history of the user seems suspicious. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Not from where anybody else is standing so far. I get that you're upset to have four articles of yours nominated for deletion, and if you have any evidence at all that you are being deliberately targeted by the other editor, then people will very much act on that. Please provide it. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    I am here to contribute and edit articles in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. However, today a new user targeted me and falsely blamed me for actions that are not accurate. I believe this is unfair and not in line with the collaborative nature of the platform. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Please provide evidence of this. 81.2.123.64 (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Please check! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    The articles that have been nominated for deletion discussion have been reviewed by experienced contributors. These discussions involve articles about judges and lawyers, under WP:NPOL, a valid criterion according to Misplaced Pages’s guidelines. Therefore, the deletion decision was made after carefully reviewing these articles. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Honestly it looks like this user, rightly or wrongly, believes you have a conflict of interest and are acting on the basis of that assumption. I would suggest, if you don't have a CoI, talking to them about this and maybe asking why they've come to this conclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 18:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    They have just started targeting my contributions, and I tried to inform her about the situation. However, she is acting as if she knows everything about Misplaced Pages and is dismissing my concerns. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 18:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Kriji Sehamati: hasn't edited since their AfD spree earlier today, let's wait and see what their response here is when they return to editing. Schazjmd (talk) 18:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    • We need to stop focusing on the OP's calling this vandalism; it is not. I've changed the header to reflect that. That said, the new user's edits are problematic and merit scrutiny. As for the UPE stuff, I've removed that post from the OP's Talk page; it's nonsensical coming from a new user and does not merit a response.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    • It is, of course, not vandalism to nominate articles for AFD discussions as long as a legitimate deletion rationale is provided and the article hasn't just been discussed at a recent AFD. However, I don't think it's a good sign when a brand new editor claims to understand all of Misplaced Pages policies and whose first actions are to nominate articles at AFDs. They are almost never an actual new editor, especially when they know how to even set up an AFD or are familiar with using Twinkle on their first day of editing. Liz 19:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      It seems that she is not new to Misplaced Pages and might be operating multiple accounts. It appears she has an issue with one of my contributions, as she created her account just 15 days ago, yet she already has a good understanding of tools like Twinkle and AfD procedures. This level of familiarity suggests prior experience on the platform. I am now requesting her account to be blocked as I am completely disturbed by her repeated allegations and disruptive behavior. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I am now genuinely confused—if all my contributions are not good, then why am I even here? Were the experienced editors who reviewed and approved these pages also mistaken? A newcomer, who joined just recently, is now disrupting and questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors. This situation is deeply discouraging. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 11:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Please resolve this situation—either block her for her disruptive behavior. How can i continue working under such constant targeting and stress ? 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 12:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      User:S-Aura, you seem to be making unsupported personal attacks against User:Kriji Sehamati. You should provide specific evidence of wrongdoing, including diffs, or your arguments here will fall on deaf ears (and bring consequences for you). Meanwhile, as a filer on ANI, you have brought all your own edits to close scrutiny by the community. You may have to face that smart people disagree, and this is how we sort disagreements out on English Misplaced Pages. You are not required to edit, but we encourage you to do so. Nobody is going to block Kriji Sehamati at this point, because you've given us no reason to do so. BusterD (talk) 12:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Meanwhile, in the last few minutes S-Aura has disruptively created a second thread about this exact issue on this same board, which was reverted by another editor. This is intentional disruption. BusterD (talk) 12:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      As to the question "Why am I here?", poets and artists have been trying to answer this question for eons. Epistemology is outside the scope of this board, but there are articles about it. Show up to edit if you want to, but expect disagreement from time to time. (That's actually a sound answer to any epistemology question as well.) BusterD (talk) 12:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Dear @BusterD,
      It means I have been proven wrong, and that user’s contributions have been more focused on me, which is quite insufficient to catch someone’s lie that she is pretending to be new, when in fact she is old.
      Also, I am not against AfD; I am simply expressing my opinion. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Could you please rephrase your point here? I don't understand. While it's okay to be suspicious that this editor is somehow socking or doing something else deceptive due to the familiarity, it seems unacceptable to deliberately accuse them of such repeatedly without firmer evidence. Remsense ‥ 论 13:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Dear @Remsense,
      I am not engaged in paid activities on Misplaced Pages, and she claimed that I am connected with the subject, who is a judge, lawyer, etc. You all should understand that this is not a trivial matter; justice is a very respected position. Making such allegations can escalate court cases. I would like to remind you of the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI case. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      One thing you need to understand immediately is you should never make another post that sounds vaguely like a legal threat, as you've just done above. Seriously. That intonation is seriously not helping us decide who's right or wrong here. Remsense ‥ 论 13:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Okay! 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I will caution you that this is tiptoeing right up to the edge of WP:NLT and you'd be advised to avoid making legal threats. Simonm223 (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Dear @Simonm223,
      I am merely showing that she can potentially do something inappropriate. I am following the guidelines and not making any legal threats. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Accusing another editor of potentially making legal threats is not much better, when there is no concrete evidence that they would do so. Being interested in articles about judges does not suffice. Remsense ‥ 论 13:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      The page of Justice Subramonium Prasad, who had conducted over the Misplaced Pages vs. ANI court hearing, was also created by me. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      State plainly what the implication you are making here is, because what I'm hearing is "I'm familiar with people who have hit Misplaced Pages with a mallet in court before, and I can make sure it happens again". Remsense ‥ 论 13:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      This is becoming a rabbit hole. I urge you not to pursue the rabbit further. BusterD (talk) 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Good call, I'll retract the above. Remsense ‥ 论 13:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      No, that is not what I am implying. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 13:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      No one has said your contributions are not good. However, it should be noted that a draft being accepted at AfC or a new page having been patrolled does not guarantee greater scrutiny would not result in a valid AfD nomination. That said, echoing others here it's clear something problematic is up with this user's behavior. Remsense ‥ 论 12:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      You can't both criticize someone for lack understanding of basic Misplaced Pages guidelines, particularly those related WP:GNG and WP:NPOL, and then argue that she is too familiar with the platform to be a newcomer for knowing how to file an AfD. I wouldn't be surprised if most people here knew how to file an AfD before knowing all 14 notability guidelines by heart. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      There are detailed instructions on filing an AfD that can be found by googling "how can I get a Misplaced Pages page deleted" - if somebody had some personal reason for wanting to have pages removed it doesn't strain credibility to think that's why they created a WP account and that they just followed the very clear instructions on the appropriate pages.
      In fact that might explain why some of the AfD filings were reasonable and some were, on their face, incorrectly filed. If you looked up the AfD process but not criteria that is the likely outcome. That's why I find the "new user files AfDs must be a sock" idea here somewhat uncompelling. Simonm223 (talk) 13:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I believe we're entering boomerang territory at this point. Opinions? BusterD (talk) 13:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I think OP is upset that a cluster of their articles were put up at AfD. This in itself is understandable, but while there's reason to think there might be mischief by Kriji Sehamati, we don't have any real evidence of it. We either need the OP to make it clearer what misconduct, if any, has occurred, or they need to drop the stick. Remsense ‥ 论 13:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      The OP has been intentionally disruptive (by creating a new ANI thread which was reverted), and this thread is going nowhere. IMHO, there's nothing ANI can do here. Everything I'm reading about should be resolved at the page talk and user talk level, in my opinion. The AfDs are underway. If dispute resolution is needed, fine. Nobody is harming S-Aura. S-Aura can't come crying to ANI (or four random user talk pages like mine) anytime someone merely disagrees with them. BusterD (talk) 14:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I'd have said close with trout for all if not for creating the second thread at AN/I. Based on that I'd say the OP should be formally cautioned against such antics in the future. Simonm223 (talk) 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I should have added that I largely hold with Remsense in their position. BusterD (talk) 14:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      User:Kriji Sehamati‬ is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages, but we don’t have any evidence because understanding Misplaced Pages’s AfD process so quickly can be a bit challenging. I have no problem with AfD regarding my contributions, and it’s a good thing that experienced contributors are giving their feedback. If you believe that the kriji is 100% correct and her activity is not suspicious, then this discussion should be closed. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 14:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      You need to stop insisting this is definitely the case if you don't have any evidence for it, period. Remsense ‥ 论 14:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      S-Aura, how did you make the determination User:Kriji Sehamati‬ is definitely a sock puppet on Misplaced Pages? Please share your process. That's a personal attack, and requires proof to prevent you from being in violation of WP:NOPERSONALATTACKS. I've looked at the AfDs and they seem reasonable to me. When you've provided strong sources the article is being kept. So far the jury is out on the others. Both of you seem to be writing articles about obscure living persons who wouldn't normally (by my cursory reading) have a Misplaced Pages article about them because reliable sourcing is not readily found. When I see that, I must suspect COI or undeclared unpaid editing here, but nobody's admitting to it. BusterD (talk) 15:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      S-Aura's continuing to issue personal attacks makes it more difficult for us to just close this (without some form of consequence for the editor making unproven personal attacks after they've been warned repeatedly). BusterD (talk) 15:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I have made a level-four user talk page warning for the personal attack. FYI. We've been very nice about this up 'til now, but we need to stop being so kind. Doing foolish things has real world consequences. BusterD (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Both editors' apparent use of AI is certainly disruptive. If it continues, it should lead to blocks. C F A 15:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      No personal hate intended, but I just found this and thought it would be worth checking. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      It would be nice if you could explain the significance for those who do not speak Hausa. Remsense ‥ 论 16:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      She had made contributions to pages in other languages a few months ago. I am attaching her contributions link. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 16:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      How does this constitute evidence of sockpuppetry if we aren't to know what exactly happened? There's a reason we don't just automatically block anybody who is blocked on another language wiki, and I looked through the edits some and didn't find anything outrageous that made it past the language barrier. Remsense ‥ 论 17:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I agree that it’s important to ensure we have solid evidence before making conclusions. I appreciate your perspective on not automatically blocking users based on blocks from other language wikis. 𝒮-𝒜𝓊𝓇𝒶 17:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      Please don't reply to me or others using ChatGPT. It is flat-out rude. Remsense ‥ 论 17:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support BOOMERANG - I've been uninvoled and have mainly just been watching the back-and-forths, but the personal attacks and VESTED mindset, such as "questioning the validity of all the work that has been carefully reviewed and maintained by experienced contributors", concerns me. Not sure for how long, but I don't think anything longer than a months is appropriate given the circumstances. EF 15:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • This whole thread, but especially the 16:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC) comment, feels like the OP is just throwing literally everything at the wall to see what sticks. But, worse, what is being thrown at the wall lacks any significant body of evidence to support. I note that a personal attack warning has been given for the continued unfounded accusations being presented, which I think is a good move. I don't support a block at this point, although if I was the OP I would withdraw this complaint and/or drop the stick and walk away from this topic as a matter of urgency to avoid continuing to make the situation worse. Daniel (talk) 17:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Darkwarriorblake making aspersions

    The OP says they don't care any more which I'm reading as a withdrawal and the other party says they won't be responding again so I'm closing this discussion. My only comment is that both editors in this dispute should have brought this to the article talk page to talk this disagreement out. I don't know if the differences would be resolved but this is what we advise editors to do when their edits are reverted. Now I just have to get that scene in the movie out of my mind. Liz 05:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Postscript: Ah, someone just close this, I don't care any more.  — Hex • talk 22:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    I'm posting here after a particularly underwhelming interaction with an editor in the form of edit summaries. I'll need to provide the context of a brief content dispute which hopefully won't take too long and then get to the point. I'm not asking for anyone to take my side in the dispute.

    Trading Places is a widely acclaimed comedy film from 1983, which is also widely acknowledged to have problematic elements by modern standards, including a scene in which the villain of the piece, stuck in a gorilla costume, is locked in a cage with a real gorilla, which is implied to sexually penetrate him without his consent.

    The article states that G. Gordon Liddy demurred being cast in the role upon finding that out. The citation for this claim is a listicle on Indiewire, which contains the sentence

    Reportedly, Liddy was on board until he got to the part where Beeks becomes a gorilla’s mate.

    Reportedly by whom is not mentioned, let alone is there a direct quotation from Liddy. Plus as can be seen the words "becomes a gorilla's mate" are linked to a very poor quality, hand-held video of the scene in question playing on a television. This alone should be enough to raise serious questions about the use of this "source" in a featured article.

    The content dispute began when I changed it like this (diff) with the comment Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs:

    −Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla.+Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks is raped by a gorilla.

    This was reverted (diff) by Darkwarriorblake with the comment not what the source says.

    After thinking about it a moment I came to the conclusion described above about the quality of the source, and decided that it was better out than in, which is what I should have done in the first place.(diff)

    −...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks. Liddy was interested in the offer until he learned that Beeks becomes the romantic partner of a gorilla. Paul Gleason took the role;...+...was offered the role of corrupt official Clarence Beeks with Paul Gleason eventually taking the role;...

    My accompanying comment was (a) That was the source's voice, not Liddy's. It's called a euphemism. Demonstrable by how it links to a clip of the scene in which a man is raped by a gorilla. (b) Source says "reportedly" for this claim, without evidence. Poor quality source. Removing claim

    That was reverted by Darkwarriorblake (diff) with the comment Nothing wrong with Indiewire as a source, if there is I'd raise it at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources. Until then, there's a talk page for you to use per WP:BRD. Your comments sound agenda driven and therefore not Neutral.

    This is where the reason for me to raise this at this board begins, because that's solidly an example of casting aspersions. It came on top of a revert which reintroduced a claim cited to a rumor in a blog post into a featured article, but that's really not my concern, because if the champions of the featured article process have decided that it's somehow acceptable for our "best" content then I'm just going to move on to something else rather than argue.

    There's one final back and forth which was enough to motivate me to post here. First, I reverted that revert (, my only time using the actual "Undo" button today), with this comment: a good source doesn't say "reportedly" (ie, spread a rumor), it specifies the origin of a fact. My only "agenda" is with a crap listicle being used as a reference, regardless of who published it. Take it to talk if you want to argue for the continued inclusion of a trash ref in a featured article, or source the claim properly yourself.

    This was reverted - again - by Darkwarriorblake (diff) with the comment How are you an admin? "rape played for laughs" is an agenda, this went through FA as is so WP:STATUSQUO and WP:BRD apply. You must go to the talk page, not I. I don't know if you're going through a bad time or something but this isn't how an admin should be acting or communicating with others, up to and including WP:EDITWARRING

    At this point it's gone firmly into the realm of knee-jerk reversions, because if Darkwarriorblake took the time to read the article which they've reverting changes to for years (is this ownership? Kind of feels that way), they would get down to the critical reassessment section. Which says "some critics have praised the film while highlighting elements that they believe aged poorly, including racial language, the use of blackface, and the implied rape of Beeks by a gorilla", cited to articles in four major publications. Or, you know, even search Google for "Trading Places gorilla rape".

    So anyhow regardless of whether the Indiewire source is deemed suitable or not, I'm just wondering what the feeling here is about someone making goofy assertions on the record that another editor has "an agenda" (what agenda could it be?) and may not be emotionally stable, which really doesn't feel like assuming good faith at all.  — Hex • talk 20:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Hrrm, this seems a bit excessive.
    • I've added a second source for the claim. Really this should've been the first option rather than removing the content.
    • The first summary was, as stated, "Don't mince words; the interaction between Beeks and the gorilla is rape played for laughs". "Rape played for laughs" is a loaded comment and not something said in the article or the source text, so it's a personal opinion, it's not neutral, it's agenda-driven.
    • When this was reverted, the editor just removed the content entirely claiming IndieWire was unreliable. There is, as far as I'm aware, nothing wrong with Indiewire. I've since found a second source, the Telegraph, which is reliable per Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources.
    • The editor ignored WP: BRD when raised, and as an admin they should adhere to policy.
    • The editor states that they are an admin on their page. Assuming this is true, the aggressiveness of their edits, hyper focus on the single area, and use of words like "crap listicle" seemed out of line with what I, personally, would expect from an admin on Misplaced Pages, certainly someone who has been so for nearly two decades. Perhaps the edit summary wasn't the place to have that discussion but, as stated, they weren't adhering to WP: BRD to start a discussion, and in the interim the article needed putting back to the status quo.
    • I find accusations of OWNERSHIP often tend to come when people don't get their way. Which is fine. I have plenty of reversions on the page for people adding unsourced content and there are plenty of changes as well. I find someone removing sourced content and me putting the sourced content back to not really be something you can fling ownership at.
    • Within the context of the film, Beeks does become the romantic partner of the gorilla, it seemed more appropriate and encylcopedic text than just saying 'rape', and neither source I've added says that either.
    • Anyways, my edit history shows I'm a massive contributor and helper and it's nearly Xmas, and I don't feel like engaging with this any further, good luck Hex. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    Of course you don't, having ignored the actual matter of your conduct that I'm raising here. Your comments about the content of the article are irrelevant.  — Hex • talk 20:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hex's position is not wholly supported, although in the entire issue, their toolset is irrelevant. There was no incivility on either part, and an all-out edit war seems to have been averted.Fundamentally the change Hex wanted to make was pure OR; rape may have been intimated—or, as Hex themself admits, implied—but its never overtly stated and is a wholly loaded term. This is the interpretation of an editor, not of secondary sources. If there is a pron=blem with Indywire as a source—currently used in 1000s of articles—take it to WP:RSN. If it's disputed that it's a high quality source per WP:FA?, then take it to WT:FAC. Accusations of OWNership are as unhelpful—and as much an aspersion—as accusations of agenda-led editing. In fact, for OWNership, Hex should read the relevant policy: here, it is WP:FAOWN, which not only allows for careful stewardship of featured material, but requires significant changes to the consensus version to be discussed on talk; I don't suppose there's any suggestion that introducing rape—particularly "played for laughs"—wouldn't be a significant addition.Really though, this is an overblown content dispute which should have started with one revert each, and ended on the talk page. --SerialNumber54129 21:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      "Never overtly stated... 'played for laughs' be a significant addition" - here's an interview with John Landis, the director.

      One of the executives was deeply appalled by a man being sexually molested by a gorilla. And I said you know, it's a joke and it goes by very quickly. But the first preview was very successful and it all went away.

      Feel free to amend the article on that basis. I'm certainly not interested in spending any more time on it.  — Hex • talk 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

    Followup

    I just want to say that, now that we've had an ANI thread on the subjeect of Gordon Liddy's feelings about portraying the romantic partner of a gorilla, I can die happy.

    While we're on the subject, our article on Liddy recites that Prior to his departure from the FBI in 1962, Liddy sought admission to various bars. I'm curious to know whether this is meant to imply that Liddy had a drinking problem, and whether this could have had any bearing on the whole gorilla romantic partner situation. EEng

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Extremely Annoying situation

    Blocked for one week. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I reverted this edit by this IP. They then trouted me multiple times for it. One of these was for "being shovel shenanigans" which I took as a PA and informed them of it.

    The rest escapes words for me. See these discussions.

    on my page

    On theirs

    they also used a second IP to continue to irk me. I hesitated to bring this to ANI, since they seemed new, and I didn't want to bite, but enough is enough.

    Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    IP vandalism

    Blocked. (non-admin closure) C F A 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    This user: user:76.67.115.228 seems to be on a spree of Vandalism, which they are summarising in the edit summaries as 'reverting vandalism'. Example: 1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrainman (talk • contribs) 02:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    including racist edits summarized as reverting racist texts. Example irisChronomia (talk) 03:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    The IP is already blocked. To OP: Consider reporting obvious vandalism like this at WP:AIV. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User Stationmanagerskidrow removing information on Radio Skid Row page

    User:Stationmanagerskidrow is repeatedly removing information about a recent incident involving a Jewish DJ at their station. They say that it is incorrect information, even though it is sourced. The name also states clearly that this is a company account. Lastly, they have continued this behavior even after being warned on their talk page. Pyramids09 (talk) 03:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    User is now editing using User:159.196.168.116 Pyramids09 (talk) 03:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a content dispute and the article is being actively edited by many different editors. However, no discussion about the disagreements has occurred on the article talk page which is where this discussion should be happening. Liz 04:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    That article probably should be speedied as an A7 for not containing any assertions of notability; which obscures that Stationmanagerskidrow appears to have been edit warring on it with an undisclosed COI, and presumably was WP:LOUTSOCKing as this IP, and if so violated 3RR as well. It's probably best for me not to take administrative action here tonight as I won't be around later/tomorrow to deal with any followups, but something should be done here beyond just saying "take it to the talk page." ⇒SWATJester 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    The page was longer, but sourced (all but?) soley to the station's site and it's been trimmed down to what it is now. Given the repeated edit-warring by IPs I've semi-protected the page for two days for now. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    WP:USERNAME and WP:COI message added here. I'm just about to make myself thoroughly WP:INVOLVED by seeing what I can do about the Radio Skid Row article. Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Insults

    I'd like to report an incident related to this discussion. A person under IP already accused me of being "obsessed". Now someone (possibly the same person) suggests that I may need psychiatric help. Please also see this comment. I guess we can always agree to disagree with other people, but this is going a bit too far. Thank you. Psychloppos (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Hello, Psychloppos. What action are you seeking to happen here? Liz 09:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have no idea which actions are warranted here. Maybe an admin could leave a message to this IP and this registered user and remind them that they should assume good faith ? It would also be nice to remind them about Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. Saying that I am "fuelled by an unhealthy obsession" or questioning my sanity do not seem to respect those guidelines. Psychloppos (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Nlkyair012 and LLM chatbots

    This editor has been constantly using AI chatbots to respond and write messages. They are a single purpose account for glorifying the Kamaria Ahir caste using unreliable WP:RAJ era sources, I and several other experienced editors have taken time and effort to respond to their endless queries and WP:SEALIONING generated using ChatGPT. They have posted AI generated walls of text on multiple noticeboards such as WP:RSN and WP:DRN and including here , accusing me of vandalism.

    Despite my repeated requests and even a final warning to them (including a request by @ActivelyDisinterested:) they are still continuing to do it. Their messages are repeating the same argument again and again and are frankly just hallucinations that bring up fictitious guidelines or misrepresent the existing ones. Several editors have told them that Raj era sources are not reliable yet they continue to ask for more evidence on why that is the case based on AI generated claims of supposed academic value or neutrality. This is getting very disruptive and taking up valuable contributor time to respond to their endless AI responses which take a few seconds to generate. I have alerted them about WP:GSCASTE and WP:ARBIPA, I would appreciate it if someone could enforce a restriction on this user from at minimum caste area. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Hello @Ratnahastin,
    To start with I should admit that I am sorry for all the inconvenience that I may have caused as a result of my actions. It was never my intention to take people’s time or skew the conversation in a certain way. I appreciate the core idea to contribute the thoughts to the Wiki and share it borne in mind the overall rules and policies of this program.
    I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site. Even when I was using AI for the grammar check or, for instance, to elaborate on some point in the text, I saw to my mismanagement that over the process we probably confused the readers and repeated the same information and thoughts, which I would never wish to happen again. From now on I will ensure that in the future the input which I provide to wikipedia fits the Misplaced Pages standard and is more personal. I will also not write walls of text and will not make assertations that do not have substantiated evidence in sources.
    As for subjects that concern the Raj and the sources from this period and the discussions we have had it seems that I have gone too far in demanding clarification for the same thing. That being the case, with the understanding that the consensus will be acknowledged, I shall not be inclined to reopen this discussion unless new substantiated evidence is produced. I don’t want to prolong the conversation or bring any more stress.
    I will strive to learn from my experience to be more productive in my interactions going forward. If there are other limitations or additional rules to which I have to stick to, I will receive them with pleasure.
    In the same respect, let me specially apologize for the inconvenience and thank all of you for bearing with us. That was why I wanted to remind all of us that we can and should keep collectively improving Misplaced Pages as a resource. Nlkyair012 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    This comment also has a typical LLM feel and contains meaningless statements such as "I understand your fears about the AI utilities you have mentioned on your site" and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style, although GPTzero said this is human input. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    It seems human in that it contains some composition and grammar errors that I don’t think an LLM would produce. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 13:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    Thanks for the reply sir, I can't explain how frustrated I'm feeling from this morning which this user made me experience Nlkyair012 14:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    The time when I messaged Vikram banafar I was casual not formal and second of all your saying doesn't prove anything "and differs substantially from your usual (non-AI) writing style" that's a straight up false accusation and utter nonsensical point and 3rd point being that GPTzero stated that this is a human input then that's an human input end of the question. Nlkyair012 14:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    No it's really not the end of the story if GPTZero says "likely human". In fact I'd actively discourage people depending on tools like GPTZero in favour of their human senses which are better at detecting LLM outputs than yet another computer program. And, frankly, what you're hearing from people here is we'd rather your casual, human, flaws-and-all style of writing over ChatGPT output "formal" report templates. They are doing the opposite of what you're looking for and have become disruptive. Simonm223 (talk) 14:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    Man you still wanna do this? @Zanahary also says this doesn't seems AI generated to him and he used his actual "Human senses" to lean that way Nlkyair012 14:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    Admitting that you have used AI for writing your comments and then saying that you have not used AI is not going to help your case. - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    You know what I think this is getting to the WP:NOTHERE point. Having to tell somebody to have the basic respect of other editors to not subject them to text-walls of chatGPT garbage over and over again is a disruptive distraction from what we should all be doing. Simonm223 (talk) 14:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    This ain't getting anywhere Nlkyair012 14:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    I really don't understand the problem. Cuz I literally also said many where that yes I used AI but for expanding and grammar correction Nlkyair012 14:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    If this combative approach is your "casual" style, perhaps your use of AI and its over the top politeness was an attempt to mask it. In any case, I think you are not here for building an encyclopaedia but for caste glorification given your obsession with a certain sub-caste. - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    im not obsessed with a certain subcaste but am sure is obsessed with British Raj sources. Nlkyair012 14:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think that's better. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 15:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Potential vandal trying to start edit war on the page for Frisch's.

    This user keeps using IP addresses in order to revert creditable information about who makes their tartar sauce. Please look into this user. IP Addresses used were 67.80.16.30, 66.117.211.82, and 216.24.107.180. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JrStudios The Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Courtesy link Frisch's. Knitsey (talk) 17:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:Nadeem asghar khan inaccurate edit summaries

    All but 2 of user's edit summaries are "Fixed Typo" when they are in fact partially updating statistical information on the page. Have left multiple messages/warnings on TP, with no response. Spike 'em (talk) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Lil Dicky Semi-Protection

    Lil Dicky was semi-protected back in 2019. Now that five years have passed, could the semi-protection be lifted? 174.93.89.27 (talk) 16:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Ask at WP:RFPP EvergreenFir (talk) 16:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    Request for Review of Neutrality and Repeated Actions

    Dear admin, I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to express my concern regarding Psycholoppos, who has repeatedly applied the neutrality dispute tag to content related to Randa Kassis. Despite previous clarifications, these actions suggest a potential bias, which could undermine the objectivity and integrity of the platform.

    I kindly request that you review this matter and take appropriate steps to ensure that all users adhere to neutrality standards. If possible, I would also appreciate guidance on how to address such situations constructively in the future.

    Thank you for your attention to this issue. Please feel free to reach out if further clarification is needed. Hazar HS (talk) 17:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Hazar Sam, whether the NPOV tag is needed or not should first be discussed on the article's talk page. Also, see the large notice at the top of this page: you are required to notify the editor you are reporting. Schazjmd (talk) 17:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
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