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			=Some of my correct Ref Desk answers=
	= StuRat's Rant of the Month =
			(Under construction.)
	== January, 2006 ==
	"Welcome to Uranus-Hertz Corp. Your call is important to us, although obviously not important enough to actually hire sufficient staff to answer it. Come to think of it, your call isn't very important to us at all, and neither are you. If you have any complaints, we will be glad to connect you to our call center in India, where they will promptly disconnect you. Actually, it won't be all that prompt, you will have to listen to off-station MUZAK for several minutes first."
			=Archives=
	== February, 2006 ==
	I actually prefer dials to digital pads. My current microwave oven has one dial for time and one for power level. It has a handle you pull to open, not a button you have to depress. It has no digital display. I can't stand those electronic pads where you have to enter info in a specific way to get it to cooperate and need to re-enter the time after every power glitch to prevent it from flashing 12:00 all the time (like a VCR). Also, on a TV which lacks a volume dial, it's impossible to turn it on and turn the volume down in the early morning hours without waking everybody in the house. With a dial you can turn the volume down before even turning it on.
			= Proper use of talk threads: Example question =
	Another example of technology run amok is the digital "temperature control system" on my truck. In order to receive "permission" to switch to recirc mode when the truck in front of me is belching diesel fumes, I must first page thru the menu until I set it to the face vents position, otherwise it will flash a red light at me that means "access denied". Good luck doing all that while driving. Then, when I turn the vehicle off, all the settings go back to the defaults, as opposed to a manual system which would damn well leave it how I had set it. I guess I will just have to get used to looking (and coughing) like a chimney sweep. Well, I enjoyed my good morning rant, did you ?
			What are some cool irrational numbers used in math ? ]
	= Vicious comments from others (and a few that aren't) =
			:Well, there's always pie. ]
	==Archives==
			::But that's 22/7, which is rational. ]
			:::No, 22/7 is just an approximation, the real number is irrational. ]
			::Isn't it spelled pi ? ]
			:::Oops, typo. ]
			:How about e ? ]
			::What's that ? ]
			:::See our article here....
			= Vicious comments from others (and a few that aren't) =
	==Award==		==Award==
	{{Barnstar|image=Barnstar of Humour3.png|text=I, ] award this for making me laugh with this comment [http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Science&diff=27015168&oldid=27014965}}		] award this for making me laugh with this comment ]
	:Thanks ! ...wouldn't you know my first award would be for being a smart ass ? ] 02:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)		:Thanks ! ...wouldn't you know my first award would be for being a smart ass ? ] 02:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
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	:Thank you, too ! ] 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)		:Thank you, too ! ] 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
			== Puns and jokes ==
			Here are some puns and jokes from the Ref Desk:
			:I don't know if this fits your request, but I was always delighted by the word "predate": to pray upon and to pre-date! --151.51.62.111 (talk) 11:18, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
			::That's actually to "prey upon". Saying "pray upon" would ] the meaning. :-) StuRat (talk) 14:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
	==Discussion timing==
			:Can African hunting dogs be bread with normal domestic dogs. Can Australian Dingo's be bread with African hunting dogs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 12:12, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
	I've decided to get some things in my life organised, so I won't be spending too much time on Misplaced Pages for a time. My fingers are itching when I see your latest entries and I've just read a book that provided me with some dynamite to throw at you (wrote an article on it, ], but that doesn't really give the reasonings, just the conclusions). Also, you've set this up for a very extended discussion, with all the subheaders, so it would be a bit of a shame if it ended here. But I have to be firm for once. Misplaced Pages has consumed almost a year of my life, so I should try to get some of it back. But I won't give up completely and might respond to some things every now and then. ] 13:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
			::<small>If you ground all those dogs up and put them in a pan with some dough, then cooked for an hour, then yes, they could all be bread together, regardless of how they've been bred separately. :-) StuRat (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC)</small>
	:Hmm, perhaps I can goad you into further discussion by saying '''HA HA, I WIN !''', LOL. I read your article and corrected it to identify POV content as claims made by the book, not proven fact. I also added the counter-arguments in the new "Criticisms" section. Also, your English, while quite good, needed some slight tweaks here and there. I left the European spelling in, though, since it's a European book. ] 16:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
			:StuRat, your bias is oozing all over the place. 169.139.217.79 (talk) 14:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
	== House Ethics Committee ==
			::If I'm equally biased against everyone, doesn't that make me balanced (while simultaneously unbalanced)? :-) StuRat (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
	I noticed that you created this stub. I replaced it with a redirect to ], which is its official name and already has a longer article. Please check more carefully when creating new articles. ] 18:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
			:Which logical fallacy is inherent in the following argument(putting aside the question of whether either statement is true): "Darwin recanted on his deathbed; therefore the theory of evolution must be false"? ] (]) 20:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
	:Thanks, that redirect was sorely needed, as it is almost always referred to as the House Ethics Committee and rarely by it's formal name, even by members of the committee. It could be argued that the more common name should contain the article and the formal name should be the redirect, but I will leave it as is. ] 18:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
	::Generally speaking "generic" government department, branch, or officer names will have a country designator in the title. ] 22:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
			::It could be the ], meaning that a man's otherwise decent theory is considered inherently specious, based on it's origin. ] (]) 20:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
	== Reference Desk and unicorns ==		== Reference Desk and unicorns ==
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	:Thanks ! And you managed to say it all in just two sentences, LOL. ] 01:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks ! And you managed to say it all in just two sentences, LOL. ] 01:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
			:(My unicorn leapfrog comment: "] say: The truly wise man never plays leapfrog with the unicorn".) ] (]) 02:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	== Talk:A turning point in national history ==
			== Reference Desk ==
	The rogue states thing was actually something I wasn't sure about including. It was just one example in the book and I won't claim to understand what exactly the authors meant by it. About your reaction, there are indeed loads of countries that have done bad things, including the US. So is the US a rogue state? I suppose what the authors meant was that this is a gliding scale. The term 'rogue state' suggests there are two types of countries. An oversimplification that befits Bush.
			::Thank you for pointing out the template on the Ottoman capitals, I guess I was too busy looking for the capitals in the article to notice. By the way, those are a lot of edits you have. | ] 12:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
	:The opposite approach, apparently taken by you and the authors, is to say "all countries do good and bad things, so should all be treated equally, all the time". This sounds good, until you think it thru. This would mean countries currently engaged in genocide should be treated the same as those who aren't, for example. Shades of "good" and "bad" are definitely needed, with some countries, like those with current genocide programs, and those threatening their neighbors, treated differently than the rest. If you don't like the term 'rogue nations' for these countries, that's fine, you come up with another name for them. ] 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
			:::You're welcome ! ] 12:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
	Your (!) second point is pretty much what the authors claim. The US has been a force for the good in the last century. But the point is that it has stopped doing that. The US unilaterally broke the alliance (the US did that, not Europe!). So Europe has to come up with an answer.
	:I dispute your claim that the US unilaterally broke the US-European alliance. We tried to get Europe to support the war in Iraq, and portions of it have, such as England, Poland, and, initially, Spain. If countries like France and Germany refused, that's their decision, not that of the US. ] 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
	About your third point, you wouldn't claim the US never made a mistake, would you? The authors acknowledge that the UN make mistakes, but it's the only reasonable option we have (apart from the EU?). Pretty much what I've been telling you too, over the last few weeks.
			]
	:You seem to be ignoring my discussion of it's current failures (like Darfur) and my reasoning why it will always be a failure (inclusion of totalitarian countries like China on the security council and Muslim nations, such as those with the death penalty for converting to Christianity, in the main body). If it had made a few mistakes in the past but had since proven it's capabilities, that would be different. As is, it's record, and prospects, are both pathetic. ] 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
			''Oh StuRat, Canada stands on guard for thee'' as we commend you for your incredible selfless robot-like diligence in maintain intergalactic order at RD. I seriously hope you're not getting in shit at work for doing this. I'm not really sure what's happened to all the bot requests, but for the moment I have started laying out a ] that could be used to transfer the existing pages into a new stream-lined interface once there is a bot willing to handle all of the archiving. After the front page is expanded to include all the rules and stuff, I'm going to add a new RD template to each of the subpages, and see where I can go from there. ]] 05:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Cool. And thanks. ] 06:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
	Who says Iran has plans for nuclear weapons? All that is needed is a good check on what they do with their material (as should be the case with any country that uses nuclear power). And what is needed for that is diplomacy, not the bullying by Israel (they actually attacked the plant, which is effectively a declaration of war - rogue state perchance? :)
			::Speaking of which, I've worked your reference to the previous months archive <span class="plainlinks"></span>, so it's now a part of the top bar--] 18:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
	:We've gone the route of allowing Iran to develop nuclear power with inspections before, and they have repeatedly been caught trying to build nuclear weapons. They have even imported parts from the Pakistani (]) who developed Pakistan's nuclear weapons. It is now the position of England, France, Germany, and the US that they have violated the agreement so many times that we no longer trust them and will not permit them to have their own nuclear fuel cycle, as a result. This does not prevent nuclear power, as Russia has offered to provide them with nuclear reactor grade uranium, and have it returned to them once spent. They have refused this offer thus far, suggesting that they want control of the fuel cycle so they can refine the uranium further to weapons-grade. They also have an abundance of oil, making their need for nuclear power at all highly suspect. As for an attack on Iran, I think you are confused. Israel attacked Iraq's nuclear weapons program in the 1980's. The size of Israel is such that the entire population could be killed with only a few nuclear weapons, so they acted unilaterally against an enemy. It was a violation of international law, but I find it highly understandable, on the grounds that survival trumps international law. ] 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
			:::Sounds good, but is this Fresh ? Just forgot to log in ? ] 18:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
	By the way, who checks on the nuclear plants of the US? Oh and aren't you all in favour of nuclear power? Then why deny other countries that miraculous power source?
			::::Nope. ]] 01:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
	:The reason nuclear plants are inspected is to prevent nuclear weapons proliferation. In countries which already have nuclear weapons in quantity, that would be entirely pointless. I am in favor of nuclear power for countries which actually need a source of energy and which won't use it as a way to violate the ] or provide terrorists with dirty bomb materials, yes. Iran fails all those tests. ] 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
			:::::I'm a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, either that or I'm ] (: The date math in the current version of the template is so twisted I figured I was the only one who would be able to update it at this point (: Even if I am too busy with university work to continue hands-on RD maintenance work -- ] 17:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
	== Joe Carr pic ==
			::::::Yea, that date math confused me. ] 17:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
	Joe Carr has posted twice on the Humanities Reference desk asking us to remove his pic. He says it's from his website, and not public domain, and he doesn't want it displayed in Misplaced Pages, since he has received death threats. Just wanted to let you know about the situation, you do what you think is right. ] 04:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::If I have some free time this weekend I'll try and template-ify some of the date math, to make the header less cluttered. Also, there's still one minor glitch concerning the years, sort of going to be a problem once we get to 2007.--] 10:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	: The image posted is perfectly in co-operation with fair use laws. He has received death threats, but how is that relevant to us? Hundreds of our subjects have received death threats. We still include them on our site. If he's so scared of people hunting him down, why does he run a website? If you want a private life, releasing materials publicly to anyone and everyone over the internet is not a smart move. If Osama emailed us and asked not to have his picture on our site, would we remove it? What about if the ] said they didn't want their pic on our site, would we remove it? -- ] 14:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::OK, cool. ] 10:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	::I would actually like to prevent people from being murdered, but apparently most Wikipedians, like yourself, prefer to help the would-be murderers. He also says he has consulted a lawyer and will take legal action against Misplaced Pages if it refuses to remove the pic, which I suppose will be necessary. I wonder, if you said something anti-Islamic here, and had Iran sentence you to death and offer a reward as a result, if you would be as happy if Misplaced Pages posted your pic on an article under your name, and maybe included your home address just to be thorough. ] 15:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::::Ok, that didn't work, just made it more buggy and over complicated--] 19:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	:::Anyone who wants to kill someone can probably conduct the same research that the Wikipedian did to get the picture or home address they want. Part of the benefit of ] is that Misplaced Pages can't "reveal" anything that's not already public knowledge. Obviously, there might be crackpots who wanted to kill people but who were only capable of tracking people down using Misplaced Pages. But there might also be crackpots who decided that people who asked that pictures be removed from Misplaced Pages deserved some sort of retribution, so there's no clear benefit from trying to understand the crazies. --] 15:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::::Ok, now it ''does'' work, but only with subst--] 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::Misplaced Pages most definitely could reveal things which are not publicly known. Even if they were eventually removed due to a lack of public sources, they would still be in the history. Also, there are degrees of public knowledge. Something may be on microfiche buried in some library, and thus considered "public", but not nearly as many people will find it there as if it were in Misplaced Pages and found at the top of a Google search. I once fell victim to this. The price I paid for my house is considered public info, and I had no objection when it was on microfiche at the Department of Records indexed under something called a "Sidwell Number". However, it's now posted to the internet such that anyone who types in my address knows how much I paid. I consider this to be a bit of an invasion of privacy. I can think of many such public records to which people would like to limit access, such as some medical records, traffic violations, etc. ] 20:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			== Thanks. ==
	:::::True, such amplification can occur -- but it seems to me that, really, the status of information shouldn't be based on how hard it is to get to it, but rather the other way around. Put another way, just because it's hard (comparatively) to get to your house price doesn't excuse it being public if it being entirely public (e.g., in the newspaper) would be considered improper. I think that any society would do well to deliberately decide precisely what information about a person/institution is public, and then arrange that that and only that information is instantaneously available. (To be relevant to the original point, I don't think this applies to Mr. Carr, because his complaint is about information that he himself distributed (even if he later came to regret that). But certainly it would be impolite at the least to go rummaging through public records to find "public" things to post online. Perhaps that counts (or should count) as harassment?) --] 19:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
			Hey, just a quick thanks for helping with my question on Reference/Science: "In tides, why is the eighth wave always the largest?". You're answer was really helpful. ] 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
	::::::I still favor degrees of "public info". My credit report, for example, should only be available to those who I've authorized to use it, or perhaps to those with a legitimate need for it. ] 20:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
			:You're quite welcome ! ] 22:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
	== Ape? ==
			== Barnstars ==
	In response to a comment about humans being apes, you "No. The closest living relatives of man are the chimpanzees/bonobos, not the apes." I was a bit confused by your statement: my understanding is that both humans and chimpanzees are apes (for instance, as well our ]) article. What do you believe apes to be? &mdash; ] ] 04:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	:I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of gorillas, when I said humans are more closely related to chimps and bonobos:
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Sorry this is (very) late, but I had meant to give you a barnstar for your comment at the reference desk a few months ago. In answer to how copper wiring was made you said: "Two thrifty Scots found the same penny at the same time." Thank you for lightening up Misplaced Pages. | ] ] 11:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			|}
			Och Aye but isnt that a bit racialist these days? Plus if you said that in Glasgow.... well I wouldnt! 8-)--] 11:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
	] Hominoid family tree]]
	:] 04:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks ! I'm partially Scottish myself, and very cheap, so claim the right to make fun of myself. ] 12:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			Ah so it was you and your brother who found that penny? 8-)
	== Dutch complicity in genocide in Bosnia ==
	I just saw a program on TV today, about how the Dutch soldiers in the UN peacekeeping force in Srebrenica, Bosnia evicted thousands of Bosnian Muslims who were seeking refuge at their base. As they left the gates, the men were separated from the rest by the Serbs, then taken off and murdered. I, for one, think those Dutch soldiers should be put on trial for complicity in genocide (in the World Court, since the Netherlands won't prosecute them due to the general atmosphere of complicity in genocide throughout The Netherlands). ] 04:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
	== sock puppets ==		== Chianti and fava beans, ==
			:''Before you break out the Chianti and fava beans, ...''
	Hi, could you confirm that ] are not your sock puppets? Cheers, —'']'' 00:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
			Well done, StuRat, well done! :-)
	:I have never used a sockpuppet, under these names or others. If you view my contribution history, you will see I do not vandalize Misplaced Pages, but have contributed dozens of articles and thousands of good edits. I do have AOL as my ISP, however, and they provide dynamic I/P addresses. So, it is possible that those I/P addresses may have been used by me at some time in the past and either previous or subsequent to my use, those dynamic I/P addresses may have been assigned to someone else, who vandalized Misplaced Pages. It's not me, however, and I would like to see the reasoning by which I am being so accused. ] 02:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
			] 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
	:: That's good as they were socks of ] (who in turn could be WoW). I'd don't know why you were being accused of being these socks, but it ] who placed tags on it stating they were you. You might want ask him about about that. —'']'' 15:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
	:::Ok, thanks. I left the question on his talk page. ] 02:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks ! ] 19:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Mathematics Ref Desk ==
	::::Hello StuRat. I identified you as a '''suspected''' sockpuppet due to similarities between some edits you made and edits made by known sockpuppets of ]. Of course, when trying to round up sockpuppets, mistakes in identity can occur. No hard feelings I hope. - ]
			Thanks for trying to help me at the ref desk,I'm afraid maths isn't my strong point.Also,it was really kind of you to actually do the problem yourself.I promise I'll read more about maths so that I don't annoy you too much with my silly questions :) ] 06:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
	:::::OK, but I'd like to see which edits you find to be similar, please. ] 20:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. If you'll go ahead and list how you did it I will look for any errors. ] 06:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
	== Hawaii-Tibet relation ==
			I would like to second that.
	I feel that, in the confines of other topics, my theory of the relation between Hawaii and Tibet was not explained correctly. So, this topic is only about why I see a relationship between Hawaii and Tibet.
			] (]) 18:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
	Tibet belonged to China for hundreds of years, then the British took it. When the British left, the U.N. claimed it was an independent nation, but China was not part of the U.N. and claimed it was always part of China and that the British occupation did not change that. So, they are of the opinion that they sent military forces into Tibet, not as an invasion, but as protection of Chinese interests. So, you have a majority of the world that sees the Chinese takeover of Tibet as an invasion and a minority that can rationalize that the troops were sent in as protection of national interests.
	Hawaii was an independent nation. The U.S. sent a lot of military there and the American businesses brought in a lot of Philipino workers. The Hawaiians became a minority and, when the Queen of Hawaii said she would make a stand to protect the native people from foreign influence, the U.S. military and militias paid by the U.S. companies overthrew the Queen. The U.S. businesses placed their own government in Hawaii which pushed a vote to turn Hawaii into a state. Most people feel that the U.S. military was only sent into Hawaii to protect American interests. There are some who can rationalize that they were sent as an invasion force to overthrow the government and take over Hawaii.
	So, you have two events with similar views. The primary difference is that one is seen by a majority as an invasion and the other is seen by a majority as a legal takeover. --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 12:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			== XMAS colors ==
	:There are many huge diffs:
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	*There was a massacre of those who resisted (and many who didn't) in Tibet. No such massacre occurred in Hawaii. The takeover there was relatively bloodless.
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |When asked why red and green are Christmas colors, you said:"I did have another theory about why red and green are the XMAS colors, but I think it's probably only my family who celebrates XMAS by putting frogs in blenders." I keep wondering how many of these you are going to get... | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 16:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			|}
			Thanks ! ] 16:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	*The Hawaiians have been treated well, including having a voice in Congress, being eligible to be US President, etc. By contrast, the Tibetans have absolutely no voice in how their nation is run. I know of no Tibetans who are influential in the Chinese government.
			You're welcome. But thank yourself too; you earned it, and made me laugh very hard in the process. :-) | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 17:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	*If only native Hawaiians (of Polynesian origin) were asked to vote on whether they wanted independence, I'm still quite confident they would vote to remain in the US. Yes, there are always a few nuts out there who will argue for independence, but not the majority. On the other hand, if only the native Tibetans were asked if they wanted independence, then I'm quite sure they would vote in favor.
	:And let me ask, why exactly do you discount the decision of the UN and the majority of the world that Hawaii is a legit part of the US while Tibet is an occupied nation ? ] 19:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks again, my goal in life is to make everyone wet their pants. (I secretly own the company that makes ].) ] 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			::Well then, get back into life! ;-) | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	Also, I believe your logic that the US isn't allowed to criticize the occupation of Tibet based on your asertions of the occupation of Hawaii, even if they were true, constitutes a logical fallacy, specifically the ] under ]. ] 20:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			:::Is "get back into life" their slogan ? I thought it was "good to the last drop". :-) ] 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	::I feel you continue to miss my point. I do not claim that *I* believe Hawaii was bloodily invaded and I do not claim that *I* believe Tibet was kindly absorbed back into it's mother-country. This all begin by stating that while I lived in Hawaii, I listened and tried to understand those who were active in the Hawaiian Independence movement. Then, working with Chinese, I tried to understand their view that Tibet is and always was part of China. The arguments were very similar - even if you completely disagree with them. Since I don't consider the Hawaiians evil, I find it hard to consider the Chinese pure evil for invading Tibet. Does that make more sense? --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 20:12, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			::::Well that too. :-) | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 19:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::No, it doesn't, because you are completely ignoring the huge diffs in the '''degree''' of oppression. That would be like arguing that, since I once made a joke about Jews being cheap with money, I have no right to criticize Hitler's genocide. ] 20:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
			:Now if it didnt seem like sycophancy or loyalty or something, I would award StuRat with something! Im not sure what yet! Lets wait and see what comes to mind.--] 00:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::Actually, it would be like arguing: Since most people in the United States make jokes about Jews being cheap with money, it is difficult to claim that all Germans are pure evil because of Hitler's genocide. Most people in the United States do not think that there was any illegal invasion or oppression of Hawaii - but some Hawaiians do. Most people in China do not feel that there was any illegal invasion or oppression of Tibet - but most Tibetans do. I'm not comparing the degree of the events - I'm comparing the common threads in the point-of-view of the citizens. Also, keep in mind that the Chinese are basing their opinions on heavily censored information. --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
			::Well, ''you'' give him a barnstar; it wouldn't look good if I gave him two in a row. | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 00:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::::When did I say that all Chinese are pure evil ? My point is that the current attitude among many Europeans that the US is evil and China is good is quite dangerous, as it will lead to a realignment with China. There are ample indications that once China becomes the most powerful nation on Earth, it will not be a good thing. The evidence includes ], the continued occupation of Tibet, it's non-democratic nature, aggressive actions regarding Taiwan, blocking of anti-nuclear proliferation measures against Iran, lack of significant help regarding disabling the nuclear weapons programs in North Korea (which they could single-handedly stop by threatening to cut all aid and trade with North Korea), blocking of anti-genocide measures against Sudan, unfair trade due to their undervalued currency, arrest and torture of members of religious groups like ], etc.
			:::My respect for StuRat is worth more than a truckload of Barnstars!--] 01:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::::Note that all this is while China is on it's "best behaviour" to prevent trade sanctions, etc. However, once they are powerful enough to not worry about such actions, then what can we expect ?
			::::I concur; I won't say "more than a shipload" because it would seem childish.
	:::::So, everyone should think of China as a dangerous rival, to be contained, not a trustworthy friend. Perhaps, if we can slow the rate of growth of China's economy significantly, it will reform and become a stable democracy before it becomes the most powerful nation on Earth, and thus not pose a danger to the rest of the world. Incidentally, I also think the US is too lenient with China. For example, we should not grant "most favored nation" trading status to such a country. ] 16:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
			:::::What we need is an award for StuRat putting up with gigatons of irrelevant bullshit presented as coherent and sensible argument--] 01:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::I agree completely. Chinese government cannot be trusted in foreign relations. Of course, I feel that the U.S. government cannot be trusted in MidEast relations either. Also, Mexico treats other Central American countries terribly. Nigeria has terrible relations with its neighbors. It is all around the world from one degree to another. Chinese government is very bad all around. The U.S. has luckily confined most of its terrible relations to oil countries.
			::::::What, you mean they aren't coherent and sensible arguments? ;-) | ] <small><sup>] | ]</sup></small> 01:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::My initial point was that the Chinese government did not consider Tibet an invasion because the Chinese government did not consider a separate nation. I never ever claimed that Tibet was considered by the rest of the world to be part of China. Then, after some very nasty emails, I slipped into a second issue of "All Chinese are evil". I get that a lot because I studied Chinese history in depth and, when I explain the Chinese point-of-view, I am called a communist and told to go to China if I hate the U.S. so much. Your comments hit me the worst because I knew, from your previous posts, that you were misunderstaning me. You are obviously more interested in gathering intelligence instead of blocking out all of China behind a stereotype. So, I really wanted to ensure that you understood what it was I was saying (and what I was definately *not* saying). I'm just not very good squeezing in articulate comments between programming and queries at work. --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
			== more on RD ==
	:::::::Perhaps something like this would have worked:
			Hi - I hope I didn't offend you with my latest comments on the talk thread. I get the impression you are sincerely trying to find a path to a solution and very much appreciate the effort you're putting into this. Like I say, I'm busy in real life at the moment so don't have (and will not soon have) much time to participate in this discussion. I suspect this whole thing has been quite upsetting for you - please don't give up. -- ] <small>(])</small> 16:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::::"While the Chinese do not consider themselves to be occupying Tibet, I do."
			:Thanks ! ] 16:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::::::Note the omission of any mention of Hawaii. Mentioning claims that Hawaii is under a military occupation doesn't do much but make you sound like a nut. ] 17:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
			== Barnstar ==
	::::::::But, I am a nut. At least that is what the people who take the time to go to my user page, then to my website, then hunt down my email address and email me keep saying. Well, they use worse words than "nut", but it's all the same. The Hawaii reference came later in our conversation. I was explaining what happened to change my opinion of the Chinese point-of-view. I always considered them ruthless until the Chinese I talked to described Tibet in the same way the Hawaiians I talked to described Hawaii. It humanized the whole thing from both sides. I still consider the Chinese government to be ruthless, but not the Chinese themselves. --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	:::::::::There are some probs with just believing whatever a few people you meet say, they could be oddballs out of synch with the majority of the population, for example. Also, you appear to have been biased based on who you talked with. I get the feeling you never talked with any Tibetans, or you would have a very different opinion. In the case of genocide, it can be difficult to find anyone left from the side that was killed off, so any opinions you get in that country will likely be from those who committed the genocide or were complicit in it. That's not a very good way to form your opinions. ] 00:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For a funny comment at the expense of Microsoft: "I actually like the name 'Windows' for the O/S, as it accurately portrays how paneful it is to use." I recieved a barnstar for a similar comment so I thought I'd spread the love ]<sup>'''] ]'''</sup> 20:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] 20:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Welcome back ==
			== LOL ==
	Hi StuRat. I always look forward to reading your posts on the Ref Desk, with their trademark clarity and sanity, and even when I disagree with your arguments, they always give me plenty to think about, so whenever you go AWOL you leave a gaping hole. Welcome back, and I hope you were enjoying whatever you were doing. Cheers ] 14:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
			Loved the chicken farmer joke. Bet it is nuked before midnight, though. ] 18:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I wasn't actually away, just reduced my level of contributions as I'm in the process of moving. Next month I should be back to "full time". ] 15:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
			:That would surely be fowl play! Where is it anyway. Post a link--] 18:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	Would you care to take a look at the debate again? Cheers, —'']'' 00:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)		::Glad you liked the joke, here it is: ]. ] 18:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
			:And here's a copy, in case it gets deleted:
	:I've never looked at that debate before, since my vote, as noted, was indeed forged. ] 03:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
			A chicken farmer had a problem rooster that was stressing out the hens with "unwanted attentions" and solved the problem by putting a bell around the rooster's neck to give the hens adequate warning. However, the rooster soon learned to silence the bell by covering it with a wing, allowing him to once again sneak up on the hens. For his study of this amazing example of animal reasoning and learning, a noted professor has received both the "No bell piece prize" and the "Pullet surprise". :-) StuRat 15:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Vermiform Appendix ==
			:This really is pulling our ]s--] 19:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	Hello,
	I am not trying to start an edit war with you. I believe that Misplaced Pages should not provide sides of a debate that don't exist. In other words, if no serious researcher has proposed that the appendix may have been involved with the digestion of raw meat, then that hypothesis is unverifiable (meaning it cannot be verified to ''exist'') and should not appear on the article. I encourage you to keep looking for verification that it is a serious hypothesis, even a minority one, at which point I would fully support including it in the article. --] <sup>] · ]</sup> 14:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
			:Howdy StuRat. It's a cute play on words, but your comment didn't really do anything to help answer the poster's question. Please, ] of the Ref Desk. If you'd like to share jokes with other editors, consider using their talk pages or email in the future. Heck, create a section in your user space; I'm sure it would be well-subscribed.
	:I don't know why you were unable to find any info. Here is plenty:
			:Nobody's going to 'nuke' your remark; it doesn't attack anyone and is unlikely to offend. I'm just dropping in to ask you to remember the purpose of the Ref Desk (it's there to answer questions). If you want to tell a joke on the Desk, try to work some useful information into it&mdash;that way everyone is happy. Cheers, ](]) 19:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
			::I do try to do that, but this joke was at least related to the topic. I use that as a bare minimum requirement. ] 19:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*
			:::Its good to see you have Standards, Stu! 8-)--] 19:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*
			Removed.] 23:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*
			:Thanks for at least notifying me. However, your comment that it was "off topic" is incorrect, as both the joke and topic were on the Nobel Prize. ] 23:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*
	:These refs in no way prove that this is the function of the appendix, but they do show this is the opinion of many people, so it should be discussed in the article. ] 04:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)		::There's more to being on-topic on the ref desk than just being vaguely related to the question; there's also the matter of actually helping to answer the question. The ref desk, after all, is ''for'' answering questions. -- ] 23:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::Answering the question and being on topic are two quite different issues. For example, a request for a clarification is on topic, but doesn't answer the question, just like this joke. ] 23:23, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	::Excellent! My searches on "appendix" and "raw meat" didn't turn these up, so I appreciate your effort. Those are certainly enough for me to agree that the hypothesis is serious enough to include in the article. I would prefer something peer-reviewed, but since it's only a hypothesis, I think the only thing that needs to be verified is that it exists, not that it is widely accepted. Thanks for your hard work on this. I would use the first link you listed as a citation, as it is stated more clearly than in the last one and it's probably better than using a link from a creationist/ID discussion, since many are suspicious of the facts in such discussions. --] <sup>] · ]</sup> 16:33, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
			::::Being on-topic for the ''page'' means asking or answering a question, or doing something that works toward answering a question (like a request for clarification). -- ] 23:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::My impression was that those sites were debunking ID, not in support of it, so I think the discussion there was fairly rational. I don't know that any of those sites are good enough to be used as references, though, since, as I said, they only prove that the theory exists, they don't offer convincing evidence that it is correct. ] 23:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
			:::::You've got a whole new def of "on topic" there, but is this really worth arguing about ? Call it whatever you want, I don't care to fight about it. Let's just agree to disagree peacefully, shall we ? ] 23:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Voice compression ==
			::::::I agree that what we call it isn't important. I think we agree that the reference desk should be used ''primarily'' for asking and working on answering questions, at least. -- ] 23:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	Hello! Are there any sources for the ] article that you can add to it? Thanks. --] <sup>(])</sup> 15:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
	:OK, I added a good source, removed the tag, renamed the article, and made the old article into a disambiguation page. I also noted other uses besides advertising mentioned in the source, so might add an "Other uses" section to the article. ] 19:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)		:::::::Primarily, yes. Exclusively, no. Building a sense of community is also important. And, sometimes, that can be facilitated with humor. ] 23:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::You cannot be serious! 8-)--] 23:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Message from Aiman ==
			== Nicotine Addiction ==
	Actually, The reference about ] was adopted from ''Buku Rekod Malaysia Edisi Kedua'' by Ghulam Jie M Khan a Malaysian author and researcher. - ] ] ]
			Thanks. Your answer to my question about the addictiveness of nicotine at the reference desk was exactly what I was looking for. ] 03:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
	== ] ==
			:You're welcome, and good luck on your report ! ] 03:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
	I've been deleting things from ]. You uploaded a number of similar images to commons, but not this one, though you marked it as being there. An oversight, perhaps? I removed the tag. ] 16:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
	:Whoops, same thing with ]. Though they're not in the deletion log at Commons, maybe since they were identical to the gif versions (but less pretty), and the gif versions ''are'' at Commons, someone decided they weren't useful? ] 16:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
			:I THough ] Was ]].] (]) 15:49, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
	::Yea, keep the GIF versions in commons and delete these, assuming nobody has linked to them since. Do you know how to do the link check in all wikiprojects at once ? I did, but have since forgotten how. ] 16:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
			== Fundamentals of marketing ==
	==Trampolines==
			That was an awesome, AWESOME answer. ] 18:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
	I don't know if you're still working on that side of things, or if you still think it's worth it, but what do you think about Simple Wiki? Don't you think it could accomplish the same thing? ''Could'' is stressed because right now not only are the articles simple but they're incredibly short and don't really explain much at all. ]] 01:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! ] 18:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
	:I think those articles are a bit too simple for a general audience. And, as you've noted, it hasn't really caught on, either. I'd rather see Misplaced Pages proper contain an article or section for each subject, suitable to all knowledge levels, at least from average on up. ] 02:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
	::Of course, and hopefully Jimbo does to. Guess I'll wait a couple years and see how things unfold. ]] 05:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
			::I have to second that. I just about choked on my coffee, when I saw that and laughed. Nice job!! ] ] 18:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
	== ]/] ==
			:::You're welcome, and here's a link for those who missed it: . ] 18:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
	'''''we (would) also need different terms for cancer in people versus animals, for heart disease in animals versus people (and why not different names for hearts as well ?), etc.'''''
			== Thanks for Helping Me Out! ==
	Very well said. This would naturally lead to confusion and frustration for users, and as an example, let me cite my own experience:
			Dear StuRat,
	I heard the phrase "male pseudohermaphrodite" on a TV drama (]), so I wanted to learn more about it on Misplaced Pages. There was no article by that name, so I typed ].
	Confusingly, this redirected me to ]. Why not redirect to ]? I guess this is because the ] article doesn't exist, but rather also redirects to ]...oh wait, it does exist! But it's not about humans, it's about animals, because its use for humans is somehow not PC!
			Thanks for taking the time to answer my question about the equation of a line. I really appreciate it =) ] 19:49, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
	This was very confusing and frustrating, so I wondered if any other person was annoyed by it. Thankfully, I saw your comments on the talk page of ]. I suspect that you are right, that the term hermaphroditism is commonly accepted by the medical community. See and .
	So basically we have got to do something about this confusing set of redirects and articles. Maybe we should recruit an expert to settle the matter:
	*If "hermaphroditism" is not offensive, we'll merge.
	*If it is offensive, we should at least not blindly redirect articles like ] to ] without providing more context in the beginning of ], like "the conditions previously known as pseudohermaphroditism and hermaphroditism are now known as intersexuality, as such usage is offensive. Pseudohermaphrodism refers to so and so type of intersexuality, while hermaphroditism refers to so and so type of intersexuality".
	] 02:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
			:You're quite welcome ! ] 20:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
	:I've added this hatnote to ]: <nowiki>:''For hermaphroditism in humans, see ].''</nowiki> ] 03:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
			== abridged too far ==
	::Sounds good, except instead of saying "such usage is offensive", I would say "this usage is considered to be offensive by some", as I suspect that only a rather small portion of the population considers it to be offensive. ] 15:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
			Hello - irrespective of all the issues all the regular Ref Desk posters are discussing, just wanted to express my appreciation for your most apt replies. "Abridged too far" ''really'' made me smile! Wonderful! Happy New Year --] 00:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Sturat Industries ==
			:Thanks, that's very ] of you. (I don't want you to think I'm stoned or anything, I just have quite an ] for puns, especially puns that rock. If I leave a pun out, I feel like I might ] body.) ] 01:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	Hi StuRat, I just nominated the article ] for AfD as a hoax and noticed that the article creator, ] seems to have referenced your user name in theirs. You might be flattered, but I just thought I'd let you know that someone may be using your name in vain, just in case there's some other issue at play here. I'm guessing the use of the word "Admin" and another user's name violates ] anyway so the account probably doesn't have much longer to live! Regards, --] 13:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
			::WTF are you ]ing about?--] 02:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the info. I expect it's just a coincidence, though. I think Sturat is an actual name in India. ] 14:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
			::Thats another one ]ed up! Any ]?--] 02:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	::I just got an email from the user involved. He's actually a Tasmanian high school student, but you're right, it appears to be just a coincidence that he's used the name as a nickname for some time. He said he's happy to remove the "admin" as he was not aware of the user name policies. Cheers, --] 16:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
	:::OK, thanks for the follow up ! ] 18:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)		:::We're starting to accumulate quite a ] of puns here. ] 02:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::No ]! --] 03:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	==Reading, England==
			:::No you mean ]--] 02:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious as to what kind of reading you do outside of Misplaced Pages. I'm assuming you're a reader, mind you. Maybe you listen a lot to education AM radio in India or something. ]] 12:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
			::::I think someone should get ]d for al these terrible puns 8-)--] 03:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	:I pretty much do all my reading online. Besides Misplaced Pages I go to various news sites and do general Google searches for info in which I have an interest. I also listen to NPR (US National Public Radio) and PRI (Public Radio Internationale) and watch PBS (US Public Broadcasting Service) TV. Between those various sources I usually get some reliable info. ] 12:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
	::Roger! ]] 10:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
			:::::It seams to me that you only have yourself to blame. ] ] 18:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Archiving ==
	Would it be possible, when you remove a transclusion, to also update ], to reflect the changes made. Remove one ], add one ], thank you--]<sup>'''71.247.243.173'''</sup> 15:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
			::::::Eh?--] 19:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	*In the mean time, I'll continue creating the transclusion pages, until someone else is able decipher RoadWizard's somewhat convoluted, template/archive system--]<sup>'''71.247.243.173'''</sup> 15:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
			::::::: Look up seam. I guess if you have to explain the pun it doesn't really work.] ] 19:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*I thought the archive pages were already created when the transclusions were first done. Isn't the individual archive page what the transclusion points to ? Do you mean the main archive page lacked links to the individual archive pages ? I'm confused. ] 21:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::I think I lost my ], as much as I enjoyed the "abridged too far." It's not that I ] will to ya'll, but this is too much. Shame there seams to be no article on seam--it's absence ]s the value of Misplaced Pages. ] 20:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	::*], the monthly pages, although you may be right about the transclusions and the archives being created at the same time. But since I've been doing the catch up transcluding and archiving, and I wasn't really sure, I had been waiting until the transclusions were removed, before adding them to the monthy archive page. Which is no longer made of a single transclusion. Yes, it's confusing--]<sup>'''71.247.243.173'''</sup> 02:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::::Yes, that is unseamly. It ] that there isn't even an article on the song '']''; somebody should call the content ]. ] 20:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::*OK, let's each double check our work after we make any change. ] 02:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
	*On that topic, ] is now a whole new template, that only requires the desk topic, and the date of the archive, the template now calculates everything else on it's own.. --]<sup>'''71.247.243.173'''</sup> 02:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::::]ainly we should ] ] of its absense in the disambig page. ] ] 21:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	== re: ==Can Nero allow you choose the sampling frequency when you rip?== on Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Computing, Sept. 3/06 ==
			:::::::::::OK I understand mica, but WTFs ] got to do with it? Youll have to do better than this on the RDs! 8-)--] 21:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
	Audio. Please respond on my talk page: user:100110100. Thanks.] 16:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::::::You didn't notice StuRat's change of course? We're now going over a ] with the ] in tow. At least we'll get a good view of the strata on the way down. ] ] 22:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
	:Unfortunately, I don't think you can do that directly in Nero. You must use an audio editing software for that. ] 20:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::Yes, I thought we could double our pun if we ] them on both geology and music. Perhaps I should add another topic so we can ] our punishment ? ] 22:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
			:::::::::::]. ] 22:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
	== REf desk rumpus ==
	StuRat, bearing in mind the criticism we seem to be having regarding jokey comments, what do you think of the idea of putting the ref desk editors jokes as editorial comments that would not be seen on the main page. You know, using <!this is a comment> ?--] 17:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)		::::::::::::I think I ] call that a day. Unless any one thinks otherwise.--] 22:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::A ] mite be the right punishment for bad punners.] 23:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
	:I suppose that might be a good idea for a comment or joke that makes fun of the question asker, like the recent "is this a joke or does he really not know how to divide by 10 ?". However, using that for the average joke means I won't see them unless I edit that section, and, of course, I won't edit the section because I don't know there's a joke there. I'd prefer to avoid that. ] 17:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
			]s are attached at the bottom and ]s at the top, so what do you call them if they're attached at both ends ? A mitey-tite, of course. ] 00:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
	Understood. But there probably will be a joke there if I know the rest of the ref desk contributors!--] 17:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Of cuourse one easy way to tell the difference (as one of my old GFs told me) is that 'Tites' always come down! BTW do you get a prize for having the longest pun run?--] 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
	==RD transclusions==
			== Re: Free Beer ==
	Thanks for your concise instructions at the RD but I have had to rescind my commitments to remove old and create new transclusions at this at time. When things get back to normal at here home I'll revisit. I feel very sorry to have let you down. :-( --] ] 00:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
	:'''addendum''': I'll force the time to continue with the date headers, that'll cheer me up a bit. :-) --] ] 00:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)		Thanks for the comment on my userpage, the joke got a good laugh out of me at work, which is always good :D ] 14:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
	::OK, thanks for the effort, and I hope you find more time to help in the future. ] 04:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks, just try not to laugh while the boss is announcing his goals for the year. (Here's the joke: ). ] 16:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
			== Your puns ==
	:::Hi. Something has gone wrong with ], with most of the questions now duplicated. (See contents listing.) I think this might have happened just after you did something with it(?) but I don't know how to fix it.--] 14:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
			Just wanted to let you know, I think your puns are great! I especially like the one about the vandalism to the Ireland related article raising someone's "ire". Good stuff, dude! <span style="font-family:monospace;">]</span>|] 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
	::::Thanks for pointing that out, it was my fault, and I've now fixed it. I was doing cut and paste from the Ref Desk to the Archive Page, and I apparently did an accidental extra paste to the Ref Desk, as well, doubling all the entries. ] 14:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! ] 20:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
	==<s>Aversion</s> Desensitization Therapy==
			== Ingemar's antics in My Life as a Dog ==
	Hey, Sturat, your idea got me curious, how exactly would I go about doing that if I were to take you up on it?- Blusher
			Woof woof arf bark whine bark. (Equal parts not wanting to give too much away and being *gasp* a bit of a prude.) ] 03:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
	:I'm not sure how old you are, if you're under 18, you might want to try just talking to girls on the Internet, in chat rooms. Try it first without a cam, then, after you get comfortable with that, try it with the cam on. (If you don't have one and can't afford one, skip this step.) Then you're ready to talk with girls in person. If you're old enough in your location, you can go to a night club or bar to talk with girls. If you're younger, then maybe try parties or game arcades. ] 01:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
	Note that I used the wrong term, it' actually called ]. ] 01:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)		:But I have an inquiring mind and I want to know ! For example, does Ingemar prefer Coke or Pepsi bottles ? :-) ] 16:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
			== Ref Desk ==
	No, I mean like what would I talk to them about?
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	:Well, whatever things make you blush normally. I get the impression that's just about anything. After you get so you can talk normally without blushing, then try talking about things more likely to make them blush, like how pretty they are, etc. ] 22:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For always making me chuckle at the Ref Desk!<br />
			] ] 19:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] 19:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
	By the way, how do you cross things out like you just did?
			:: Yes, deserved for the "splitting hares" comment alone. A pun '']''. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 20:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
	:You do this:
			:::Merci beaucoup. ] 20:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
	::<nowiki><s>Aversion</s></nowiki>
			== Bearnstar ==
	:To get this:
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	::<s>Aversion</s>
			|rowspan="2" valign="top" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''Bearnstar for a joke so unbelievably lame, it made me laugh'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |<br/>I wanted to award you a barnstar for but unfortunately it was ]. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 05:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
			|}
	:] 22:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks. Does "eaten by a bear" mean it was deleted ? ] 15:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
			:: Haha. I hope that is a clever joke (or else paranoia really is getting the better of you). No, it doesn't mean that, the link explains. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 17:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
			::: Actually, where have you been? I could have done with your support recently when a harmless joke I made was unilaterally removed. Typical, just when I need some inclusionist support, they all go awol. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 17:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
	Thanks, I will definitley try it, I will tell you if it works, although that may be a little while, like a couple weeks or something. Hopefully I can get it cleared up. :)
			::::I had to do some actual work (gasp !). Do you have a link to the joke ? Is it too late to support it ? ] 01:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
	== New picture at Boolean Logic ==
			:::::: Yes, too late, I'm afraid. Actually it wasn't the removal itself that I was bothered with (, and I'm not about to claim something so flippant deserves to remain if another editor thinks it inappropriate) it was the unwarranted accusation in the of the removal.
	I replaced the JPG picture with an SVG one because SVG is better capable of expressing vector information, and also because JPEG files introduce sometimes undesirable ]. For more information, see ]. --&nbsp;] (]) 06:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
			:::::: By the way, Loomis is a hair's breadth away from being indef blocked again. I'm lobbying to give him one last chance, though I'm not sure it will carry. I don't know if you have any influence with him, or if you even care, but if you do it really would be helpful if you could impress on him that it he has a stark choice to make. Rightly or wrongly, fair or unfair, this is how it is and he has got to accept that or he will be unwelcome here for an indefinite period. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 08:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
	== Why are you so bloody stubborn ==
			== "Incarated" ==
	I noticed in a desperate bid to save your ass form a losing battle, you have set up a straw man argument, using english definitions, and claiming my point as incorrect. We are trying to discuss scientific terminology, please dont try to discredit my point with your pathetic whinings, just because your wrong, doesnt mean you have to be a dick. ] <sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 17:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks for the chuckle, StuRat. ] 23:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
	:My arguments are perfectly sound. You're the one who is wrong, and the one who is resorting to a personal attack (name calling). Calling people names (ass, dick, idiot) is counter productive. If someone disagrees with you, respect their POV, don't insult them. ] 22:07, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome ! ] 23:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
			== Hobo etc.... ==
	If I am not kicked out for getting into a conversation of two administrators, can I ask what are we talking about? -- 08:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC) (I am from a cyber cafe; there may be others too!).
			Thanks for the info, loved the song in the nineties but never realised what it was all about...! ] 12:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC) (But it is a lot less decent than I expected it to be... :-O )
	:I "corrected" Philc when he called slowing down "acceleration", and I said that it should be called "deceleration". He then became abusive (some of which you see above). Apparently, there is a diff between UK English (him), where the word "decelerate" is considered to be improper slang, and US English (me), where it's perfected well accepted, even by scientists. However, none of that excuses calling names. Philc and I have since made up. ] 17:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			:You're quite welcome ! ] 13:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
	== The smell of air ==
			== you don't happen to understand ] ==
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Water --] 23:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
			?<span style="font-variant:small-caps">''']'''</span> 03:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	== From Loomis (Lewis) ==
			:No, but then again, I rather enjoy the ambiguous nature of English words, since that allows for the formation of puns. ] 03:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	Stu, of all the guys on the RefDesk I find you to be by far the most sensible, and one of the most intelligent. We seem to have an affinity of opinion on so many subjects. I highly value each and every of your posts, as they're usually a refreshingly sensible, amongst all the bullshit flying around...(especially from you-know-who!)
			::Way to read a sentence that I had intended to come off as a joke with an extremely serious tone and make a comment about the ambiguity present in the english language, thus forcing me to make a sentence that is completely unambiguous. Until you find a way to point out the ambiguity --<span style="font-variant:small-caps">''']'''</span> 03:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	I don't want to make you feel guilty or anything, but I asked a question that was very difficult to ask, and very near and dear to my heart. It took me over two years to come to terms with certain things, and I finally asked it. Again, I don't want you to feel guilty, I just felt like I had to write to tell you that I was hoping for a more serious response, one without a bunch of silly "Dick Cheney" jokes.
			:::Hmm, since you wrote "english" in lower case, you must not mean the language, but rather the term which means "spin" as in "put some english on the ball". Therefore, your comment regards the "spin language", AKA, the language of politicians. :-) ] 03:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	In any case, I still have a great deal of respect for you and your intelligence. I guess I just felt the necessity to write this little bit, if anything, just out of respect for my brother's memory.
			::::Do you play ], by chance? --<span style="font-variant:small-caps">''']'''</span> 04:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	I look forward to continuing with all the RefDesk fun, and if we can finally figure out exactly where he lives, maybe one day we'll seek out Dirk and give him the wedgie he so badly deserves! :--)
			:::::Not since ] filed that restraining order. :-) ] 04:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
	Take it easy Stu. I'm probably just overreacting anyway. You seem like a really decent guy.
			== Barnstar ==
	Lewis
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	:Sorry Lewis, I tend to use humor to try to diffuse tense situations. Following that vicious personal attack by Philc (see above), I needed to either laugh or risk stooping to his level. I removed my joke. ] 02:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Working {{#switch: gender
			|w=Woman's
			|n=Wikipedian's
			|#default=Man's
			}} Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your RD work ] 20:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] 20:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
	No problem Stu. Using humour to diffuse tense situations is actually an art my people have (for tragic reasons of course) developed a mastery of. Have you ever seen ]? Many Jews are utterly offended by it, considering it to be some sort of mockery of the hell that was the Holocaust. To me, the movie was a masterpiece. Its masterful juxtaposition of deep, deep sorrow with humour was simple genius. Far better than any ] that Spielberg could ever produce.
			== wunderground.com ==
	In any case, I know that I have a bit of a problem myself with having a short fuse when it comes to certain things. I'm sure that I must seem like some sort of "frothing-at-the-mouth" paranoid Jew, completely blowing up at each and every of the tiniest hints of anti-Semitism. But I'm working on it, and I hope it's starting to show.
			Thanks for recommending Weather Underground in ]. Weather.com was killing me on dialup, and http://forecast.weather.gov/ doesn't have the hourly forecast. Wunderground seems to beat the both. What a great site. / ]<small> ] ]</small> 13:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
	The reason I'm saying this is because, well, I recognize that Phil tends to let his temper get the better of him as I (hopefully used to) do. Yet I don't know if you remember, but I know you were participating in the discussion, but he once went on with a little rant about how "Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tito" etc... Did some good things for their people. Naturally, both you and I pounced on the absurdity of it all, and later on, recognizing what he had said, he wrote me a special note on my userpage apologizing for what he said. It wasn't necessary, but he did it anyway. That's why I feel that deep down, while like me, he can be a bit of a hot-head at times, deep down he's a decent guy.
			:You're quite welcome, glad you like it ! ] 13:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
	But who knows...maybe I'm wrong, maybe I just feel for the guy because I ''think'' I can relate to his senseless rants and often utterly gauche behaviour because that's how I see myself early on, when I started out at Misplaced Pages. But who knows. I could be completely wrong about all of it.
			::Wunderground is also one of my favourite sites, and I'm so glad to see it being recommended :) ] 12:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
	Of course I know you much better, and it's far less of a guessing game with you. I KNOW you're a decent guy, while, on the other hand, I'm only ASSUMING Phil is. And like I said at the RefDesk, I'm now feeling like I'm sticking my nose far into where it doesn't belong, so I'll quit while I'm ahead. After all, it's your business, and it's totally up to you how to deal with the whole thing.
			== Christmas Carols ==
	Lewis
			Here's my own version of two songs:
	:Thanks, but I'm not going to forgive Philc unless he actually asks for forgiveness, as he apparently did with you. ] 06:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
			'''Winter Wonderland'''
	::I didn't, I just apologised, and explained my position which had been misenterprated, much as I had with you, and Loomis being the good guy who I respect, saw that I meant no harm, despite what I had said, and that I was sorry, and was willing to forgive me, and that is why I have so much respect for him. But you simply restarted the quarrel on my I-page... shame really... ] <sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
			:''In the winter we can build a snow man,''
	:::And did you also call him a dick while "explaining your position", as you did with me ? I hardly consider suggesting that you should refrain from swearing at other Wikipedians, and treat people with respect, to be "starting a quarrel", unless you disagree that people should be treated with respect. And this was on your "Help me improve" page, which would seem to be the proper place for such a suggestion. ] 23:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
			:''then some kids 'll come and kick it down...''
			:''We'll ask 'em if they did it,''
			:''they'll say "no, man"...''
			:''then we'll rub their faces in the ground.''
			:''Then we'll sit, and perspire,''
	::::Ok this really is getting a bit pathetic now, were not even remotely intrested in the original point anymore, would you agree to put the whole thing behind us, and just forget about it, as it really doesnt seem to have any place on wikipedia, and even an argument or this in real life would be pretty sad, so you reasy to just call it cool now... cause I know I am. ] <sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 23:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
			:''as we set their coats on fire...''
			:''Then we'll make 'em walk home,''
			:''when it's twenty below...''
			:''walking through a winter wonderland,''
			:''...walking through a winter wonderland.''
			'''Silver Balls'''
	:::::I'm fine with calling it quits, but please don't swear at me or insult me in the future. ] 23:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
			:''People pointing, people laughing,''
	::::::Hmmm I hate it when people talk down to me, especially when were meant to be in an equal society, I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit of an anarchist at heart. Well I'll let it slide because thers nothin to be gained by being grumpy, so glad to have this behind us. See ya around buddy, most probably on the ref desk! hehe. ] <sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 00:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
			:''At the gym and doctor's,''
			:''I'm starting to hate...''
			:''being naked.''
			:''Silver Balls, Silver Balls...''
	== Reference Desk ==
			:''I've taken too much ].''
			:''Silver Balls, Silver Balls...''
			:''I've taken too much, by far.''
			] (]) 03:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
	::Thank you for pointing out the template on the Ottoman capitals, I guess I was too busy looking for the capitals in the article to notice. By the way, those are a lot of edits you have. | ] 12:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
			==Humour==
	:::You're welcome ! ] 12:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	== Referece desk ==
			|rowspan="2" valign="top" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''Misplaced Pages Happy ] Award'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | StuRat, for your merry contribution at the Refdesk here and brave signs of ], I hereby endow you with the Funnel Award to be used very carefully. ] (]) 23:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! Now if only I can think of something romantic to do with a funnel... ] (]) 23:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
	]
	''Oh StuRat, Canada stands on guard for thee'' as we commend you for your incredible selfless robot-like diligence in maintain intergalactic order at RD. I seriously hope you're not getting in shit at work for doing this. I'm not really sure what's happened to all the bot requests, but for the moment I have started laying out a ] that could be used to transfer the existing pages into a new stream-lined interface once there is a bot willing to handle all of the archiving. After the front page is expanded to include all the rules and stuff, I'm going to add a new RD template to each of the subpages, and see where I can go from there. ]] 05:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			You will. If anyone can, you will, : )) ] (]) 09:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
	:Cool. And thanks. ] 06:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			: :-) ] (]) 12:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
	::Speaking of which, I've worked your reference to the previous months archive <span class="plainlinks"></span>, so it's now a part of the top bar--] 18:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			==You have been in extremely good form lately==
	:::Sounds good, but is this Fresh ? Just forgot to log in ? ] 18:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			As in "Waiting for Mister Right." ] (]) 05:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
	::::Nope. ]] 01:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks...and if the young, fictional woman who made that comment was criticized for her actions, I suppose she could always turn the other cheek (or perhaps a deaf ear). ] (]) 18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
	:::::I'm a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, either that or I'm ] (: The date math in the current version of the template is so twisted I figured I was the only one who would be able to update it at this point (: Even if I am too busy with university work to continue hands-on RD maintenance work -- ] 17:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
			==RefDesk==
	::::::Yea, that date math confused me. ] 17:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
			Thank you for your response. This has been a really difficult time for my friend and the gang has been having a difficult time consoling him. I'm going to read the article you linked me carefully. Thanks again. --] ] 20:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::If I have some free time this weekend I'll try and template-ify some of the date math, to make the header less cluttered. Also, there's still one minor glitch concerning the years, sort of going to be a problem once we get to 2007.--] 10:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::::::OK, cool. ] 10:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)		:Your welcome. You sound like a good friend. ] (]) 20:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::::Ok, that didn't work, just made it more buggy and over complicated--] 19:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::::::::Ok, now it ''does'' work, but only with subst--] 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
	== Language ==		== economics ==
			I enjoyed the conversation over economics. We should have another soon. I did read your article on "diseconomies of scale", and I was impressed by your knowledge on the subject. I need about 20 more hours in the field before I complete my degree. I'd like to run by you some of the advanced elective courses and get your opinion on where my time is best spent.
	"RefDeskia". Hehe. I Like it. :) --] 17:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks
	:Thanks ! :-) ] 17:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
			Paul Balfay ] (]) 13:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
	== Marking Ref Desk questions as answered -- unanswered==
			:Sounds good. I will also try to convince you that Bush is an idiot. I think you're about the only person who still thinks he was a good President. Amazingly, fiscal conservatives aren't happy with him, due to the massive expansion of the national debt (because of Iraq and little effort to reign in social programs), and religious conservatives are mad at him for not addressing any of their issues, like banning abortion and gay marriage. ] (]) 15:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
	About the "answered question" thing, I can see why you especially would want a system like that, so let's just go out and try it for 1 week on one of the desks. Do you have any problems with a simple "- answered" tag on the question?
			== I Lol'd ==
	Also, I was thinking that it might work if the requirement is for ''questioners'' to tag ''their own'' questions when they feel they are properly dealt with. Of course not all questioners come back to check their answers, but if only 50% of them could get checked manually (by a person that can't be challenged), I think it could work all the more smoothly. ]] 04:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
			. :) --] 13:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
	:Judging by the number of questions which are unsigned, don't list the country where relevant, are obvious homework questions, etc., I doubt if many of the question askers will pay much attention to any request we make that they mark them as answered. The answered tag on the title works for me. I suggest we put it in uppercase in front of the rest. For example: "ANSWERED - How many seagulls can I fit down my pants ?". :-) ] 04:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Thx ! ] (]) 13:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
	::Does it really matter if it's in front and in caps? Don't forget that you are possibly the most prolific RD user, the top three probably handling more than a quarter of the edits, and most users won't care for the extra load of information. I would like to have it too, but I think it makes sense to have something that is easy to see, but doesn't stand out so much when you're not looking for it. ]] 14:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
			::You're still mr. wonderfull (of toe jam) to me. Only you could pull off having your foot iin your mouth with aplombb. X-) ] (]) 08:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
	:::I would think it would be much quicker to scan thru the TOC for "ANSWERED" if it's in uppercase, and either right or left justified. Since we can't right justify, we need to left justify, by putting it in front. ] 14:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
			:::Yes, but when ] embarasses himself, he puts his foot in his mouth with a plumb. :-) ] (]) 13:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
	::::You're kind of losing me now. Unless you're planning on scanning the TOC in like 3 seconds I don't see how this all makes a difference. Anyways, I think I'll leave this alone for the meantime and focus on editing the RD. That and the fact that I haven't actually read any articles in a while! ]] 15:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
			::::Haha. Are you hanging with ] lately?
	==Old question about Japanese history books==
	I forgot to respond to your question about your facts:
			:::::I suppose I'll have to, as it's too late to hang with him earlyly. :-) ] (]) 01:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
	:''Which of my facts are a little bit off ? The new situation is North Korea having nuclear weapons and soon being able to reach the US West Cost with them. Once this happens, US threats to respond (if North Korea attacks Japan) will no longer be credible. Thus, Japan needs to be fully self-sufficient militarily. However, this makes the rest of Asia quite uncomfortable until Japan atones for their sins during WW2 ("If they don't say they're sorry for WW2, does this mean they will do it all again ?"). StuRat 12:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)''
			== Timbre! ==
	I was referring to this comment: ''However, the US and other nations will be uncomfortable with this until there is evidence that Japan can face it's past and thus move beyond it.'', because it seems hypocritical for the US to be "uncomfortable" when they, in fact, are the ones encouraging Japan to rearm. ]] 06:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
			Next you'll be saying that if I edit articles on ]s in ], I must yell "]!" first! {{mono|1=:-D}} --] ] 14:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
	:I don't see why. To use a metaphor, aren't many parents uncomfortable sending their kids out into the world, but still manage to do so, despite this discomfort ? ] 06:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
			:Well, if that's the rule you want to implement, I'd be happy to abbey, although, I'm sure, others would want nun of it. ] (]) 14:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
	::Yes, you are right on that point. When you say that the US is uncomfortable, though, it seems to imply to me that they are "officially uncomfortable". Rice was quite clear how pleased she was to have this opportunity to pat Koizumi on the head for being such an obedient little democrator, and I assume she knew that he would have a hard time convincing ''his'' cabinet to listen to the USians, which is why you wouldn't expect her (or anyone else on Bush's speed-dial) to give the Japanese any impression that they were ''worried''. I'll admit that I don't know much about the US side, and you might be very right that a large portion of the US public would be worried on some level about the re-arming of Japanese forces, but if we're talking about public opinion then it could just as easily be said that most Hong Kongers and Shanghaiese are perfectly happy with Japan's recent conduct, at least the ones that have business in Japan, which is almost everybody.
	::By the way, did you know that your profile is exactly the same as my dad's? ]] 14:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)		::I don't know about a "rule", that seems like process ]ery, which is a ] sin as you know. --] ] 15:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
			==greenlight a movie==
	:::You're making me feel old ! ] 14:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks for your answer! So if the answer is "studio executives", then who might typically be on this panel who greenlights the project? Would it be the producer and director together? Or maybe some sort of executive in charge of finances? --] (]) 21:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
	== Thanks. ==
			:More of the latter, I would think. At that point in the process the producer and director may not even have been chosen, yet. I would expect a team of accountants would have to OK the pic before that. ] (]) 21:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
	Hey, just a quick thanks for helping with my question on Reference/Science: "In tides, why is the eighth wave always the largest?". You're answer was really helpful. ] 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
			== Where you been? ==
	:You're quite welcome ! ] 22:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
			Hi StuRat, missing you, hope all is well... ] (]) 04:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
	== Nick ==
			:Hi Julia, and thanks for the kind word. I injured my back and wasn't feeling up to using the computer much (sitting at the chair was painful). It's getting better now, so hopefully I can use the computer at least a bit. ] (]) 02:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
	Hi StuRat, I'm just curious about your username. Does it mean anything? Are you aware that it is the (half-correctt, official is "StR") abbreviation for "Studienrat", the default job title and salary level for high school teachers in German state service? ] 07:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			::Welcome back! (sorry about that goddorfl pun) of course meaning get well soon. Sorry about your injury and a big one at that. It's so nice to see your post at the ent desk. =) take care, ] (]) 07:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
	:No, it's a variation on my name, Stuart. My parents once received a letter from my school saying "We would like to congratulate your '''daughter Sturat''' on '''her''' excellent academic performance. I thought it was so funny that I continue to use it as a screen name to this day. ] 18:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			:::I'll let that crack slide. Does that mean I'm spineless ? I wish ! Those lucky octopuses ! (Or is it octopi ? ... no, that's a pie shaped like a ], isn't it ?) {Note that I've included a link on "stop sign", just in case Aussie stop signs are shaped like wombats.} :-) ] (]) 17:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
	::Are you a female!!! the name stuart doesnt sound feminine.]] 18:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			::::No, it's exactly like the ones I ignore over here. ; ) but whenever there's a wombat one, I do take notice. ] (]) 21:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
	:::No, I'm not, that's what made it so funny. ] 18:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			:::::Then you should start a movement to have all stop signs there changed to the shape of wombats, so Aussies will actually notice them. :-) ] (]) 09:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
	::::So, your school staff is guilty for double error on the same letter.]] 18:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			::haha, good one. Coincidentally I stopped for three ducks crossing today, (and there was a ducks sign). Awww, : ) ] (]) 08:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
	:::::Yes, they were apparently attempting to compensate for the academic excellence of the students with extreme administrative incompetence. :-) ] 19:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
			:::A sign for ducks crossing right where they cross ? I'm impressed. The Aussie road crews obviously have all their ducks in a row... :-) ] (]) 14:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
	== RD ==
			::::Ah SR, if you could see our crews, you'd know it was the ducks getting it together, :-) ] (]) 03:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
			== Good form ==
	How many desks do you think we need? --] 17:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
			I enjoy seeing you in good form on the desks, very fungi, as ever, helpful too – : ) ] (]) 07:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
	:At the moment, splitting up the 3 big ones (Humanities, Science, and Misc.) into maybe 4 or 5 each, should do nicely. That gives us around 15-20 total. As the Ref Desk grows in popularity, I would expect to have to break it up further, though. ] 18:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks, I'm just glad there's ] for humor at the Desks. ] (]) 13:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
	::It doesn't look like a 15 desk RD will be approved, at least not now. I'm thinking of cutting down the list I have right now to about 9 (haven't figured out exactly how yet) and fixing a couple of minor things before proposing it again. I won't change the vertical layout of the list, which would allow for easy expansion in the future, but I'm not sure if RD users are ready for 15 desks yet. ]] 23:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
	:::OK, let me know if you want suggestions on how to break it up into 9 desks. ] 00:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)		::If not, we can start a nitting circle. =) ] (]) 03:29, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
			:::Hmm, picking nits off with nitting needles sounds as hard as picking rice up with chopsticks. :-) ] (]) 02:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
	== UN Flame War ==
			::::I presume anyone who drives through blizzards to find ] at Christmas is merely being modest. (You could try it with chopsticks, this is a post-modern-type nitting circle) ; ) ] (]) 05:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
	Hey Stu,
			:::::I have a four-wheel drive truck, so driving through inclement weather is no problem, especially when one considers the added traction provided by all those subcompacts I drive over. ] (]) 17:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
	We seem to see eye-to-eye on certain issues, and I'm grateful to know you as as intelligent, articulate person who's able to relate to some of my views, to disagree with me in a civil manner when we disagree, and to back me up and offer further perspective when we agree.
			== You must have this... ==
	I happen to have unwittingly been caught in this flame war with what I see as this pro-UN nutcase from the UK. At the outset I explicitly tried to may it clear that I'm only interested in friendly, civil debate, but despite my efforts, it just descended into a flame war.
			<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="padding:0;border-style:none;">
	I just don't know what to make of it. As I hope you know by now, if I'm wrong about something, I'm unhesitant about admitting it. Yet this situation is just plain nuts.
			<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="border-style:none;padding:0;">
			<div class="NavHead" style="background:tan;text-align:center;text-style:normal">
			Happy Christmas from Australia!</div><div class="NavContent" style="">
			{| style="border:6px ridge gold; background:brown; padding-left: 8px; padding-right: 8px; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px;" align=center
			|]
			|style="padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 40px; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; text-align: center;"|
			'''<font color="white">'''Happy Christmas, Sturat.'''</font>'''<br />
			<font color="white">''] <small>"They'll steal your eye teeth"</small>''<br />
			<font color="white">''~ wishing you every success dealing with snowmen vandals ~ from Julia R. o<| =)''</sup>
			<br /></font>
			|}
			] (]) 00:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
			</div></div></div>
			:Thanks ! I was afraid to open the card, thinking I'd find an elf peeking out of a kangaroo's pouch. ] (]) 13:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
	Therefore as a favour to me, if you have the time, and if you're interested, I'd be very grateful if you took a look at my talk page and gave me your impression of the whole thing. If you feel I'm wrong somewhere, please don't hesitate to point it out. Otherwise, I'd just be interested in your take on the whole thing.
			::The kangaroo would be even more afraid! Ching ching ching, ching ching ching... ] (]) 08:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
	Thanks Stu, and all the best,
			:::Yea, those pointy elf shoes could really hurt momma roo. (Maybe that's why some of them are curled up at the end ?) ] (]) 14:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
	Lewis
			== Jet fuel ==
	:Sure, but that would be a whole lot easier if you would sign your post with 4 tildes to give me a link to your user page. ] 15:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
			I wanted to say some personal ''Thank You!'' for answering my questions about jet fuel. It really helped to somewhat clear my mind and research topic farther. ] (]) 08:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
	Sorry Stu! I forgot this time. My bad.
	] 00:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)		:You're quite welcome. ] (]) 14:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
	== cholesterol ==		==Thanks!==
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	Thanks for your help on ]. I see in fact that your answers differ from those of another user, and you'll see from my followup comment that I've decided to take his advice. Please don't be offended by this, it's just that his background seems to be medical (dentistry) whereas yours seems to be computer programming. Your time and effort is still very much appreciated. ] 18:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for answering my Band Planet question on the Reference Desk! --] (]) 07:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
			|}
			:You're welcome, and I hope such questions are never banned,
	:You're welcome. Beware that "experts" don't always have the right answer, however, such as when the tobacco industry paid doctors to extoll all the health advantages of smoking to the public in the 1950's. In this case, however, his answer looks good to me. ] 15:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			:...as that would leave us with questions which are only bland. ] (]) 14:22, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
	== Reference desk comments ==
			== Pian<s>issim</s>o forte ==
	Please don't riff on RD misspellings, like . Adding a smiley to a comment that's fundamentally just pointing out a misspelling doesn't really make it any less rude. In fact, if you would delete this comment I'd appreciate it. I'm sure you're up on my conversation with Light Current about this sort of stuff. Please just cut it out. Thanks. -- ] <small>(])</small> 18:25, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
			Trust you to invent music terrorism, >)) ] (]) 08:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
	:I didn't say anything rude about the person (like that they were an idiot), so it doesn't violate the standard I personally use to avoid the blatant abuse of others. In fact, others also pointed out the spelling error, so I wasn't doing anything worse than them. BTW, I don't recognize you as a regular Ref Desk contributor, which, in my opinion, somewhat reduces your authority to criticize those of us who do. ] 19:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
			:Ah yes, by dropping a piano on a crowd. And here I thought "musical" terrorism was those people who play their car stereos so loud that their tires rarely touch the ground. ] (]) 17:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
	::There's a huge difference between a simple "did you mean ..." and making a joke (at the misspeller's expense) ''after the misspelling has already been pointed out''. The former isn't rude at all. The latter is blatantly rude. And, BTW, this is not about individual authority but about Misplaced Pages's standards of civility, particularly ]. You and the other "regulars" at the RD have no more "authority" over it than anyone else. However, just so you know I am an admin, and if you feel it's necessary we can get all official about it. How about we start with a warning?
			:You might also appreciate my Unclyclopedia entry for Ethan Allen: . ] (]) 17:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
	(] removed)
			::I see EA is your thought-ancestor of furniture terrorism. Did ] invent buzzword terrorism in defeating the <s>French</s> oops British? Looks like music terrorism keeps its definition as per the bouncing car and there's an item I don't know the name of, an enclosed van with levels to burst people's ear drums in the few seconds they stay inside. Apparently the noise forces them to enjoy brief pain, then quickly quit. Is there an article on this kind of thing? *hint hint* :) ] (]) 01:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
	::Now, please cut it out. And, assuming you're not going to, I'll delete your comment. -- ] <small>(])</small> 19:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
			:::Strangely, my Unclyclopedia article appears to have been expunged, with no reason given. I'm guessing that they have a "no violence jokes" policy that even extends to historical, fictional violence during war. ] (]) 15:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
	:::Rather than respond to the implied threats above, let me say that I am hopeful that, per the discussion on the Ref Desk talk page, you now seem more willing to allow the Ref Deskers to deal with their own issues, and avoid the type of unwarranted escalation that calling in other Admins will cause. To your credit, you have shown some ability to limit using your Adminship as an opportunity to bully others, I just wish that was true of all Admins, as there is nothing more dangerous than the abuse of authority. ] 15:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			::::That was quick. Can you get a pee review? ] (]) 09:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
	If you see any instances of admins abusing authority (at the RD or anywhere else), please let me know. In particular, I would be very surprised if any RD regular would do anything that would actually justify being blocked. -- ] <small>(])</small> 16:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			:::::A pee review ? "It was a pale yellow, with a nice frothy head of foam...". :-) ] (]) 22:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
			::::::This one, for bringing doomed articles back from extinction (apparently). Ewww, ] (]) 01:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the offer. The last instance was when my article ] was deleted. I'm not complaining about the deletion, per se, but rather the process used. If I recall correctly, the Admin who wanted to delete it placed it in the area where deletions are discussed. So far, so good. What happened next disturbed me, though. That same Admin who wanted to delete it decided when the discussion should be closed (which allows them to time it so they can close it at a point when the majority favors their opinion). They then concluded that the consensus favored their opinion, when it did not. When challenged on this, they responded that those favoring my POV must be sockpuppets, with the inherent threat to block me. They were not sockpuppets, and I saw no evidence that they were. Nevertheless, I was powerless to defend myself from this Admin's actions. I felt any attempt to bring this up elsewhere would just get me blocked. I think several reforms are needed to prevent this type of abuse:
			:::::::And do they call for a pee review when they suspect "]" ? :-) ] (]) 14:20, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
	1) If an Admin refers something to the page where the deletion of an article is discussed, then they shouldn't participate in the discussion, as they might well be biased.
			== Thank you SR ==
	:An admin ''closing'' a discussion is already not supposed to have been involved in the discussion (I can't find a reference to this guideline off hand, but I'll keep looking). Seems to me nominating an article makes you involved in the discussion (there's generally an implied '''delete''' vote). Assuming I find the "don't close discussions you're involved in" guideline, I'll update it to clarify that nominating an article means you're involved in the discussion (it may already say this). Looking at ], it doesn't look like that's what happened in this case (nominated by ], closed by ]).
			I completely forgot about disturbing the peace, disrupting traffic, and all sorts of offenses that only apply when the prosecutor is hard up. Come to think of it, if he played badly enough he would be making one big noise that would eliminate many smaller noises (i.e. his playing). Maybe he can use that as a positive defense. ] (]) 01:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
	::OK, my mistake. But do you see what I mean, the majority votes to keep it, yet the Admin decides the consensus is to delete it. Also, can you find the deletion discussion review ? ] 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			:This reminds me of the ] case. If nothing else, they should have at least convicted her of littering. :-) ] (]) 15:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
	2) The time when the discussion is closed should be fixed (say one week after it's opened).
			== Hello. ==
	:It is supposed to be at least 5 days, plus a variable amount of time "in queue" after that. There are a large number of articles that pass through AfD, so the queue could be several days. In this case, it was closed 5 days + 9 hours after being nominated. Would it help if the "5 days" was easier to find?
			Hello friend StuRat, I am a new user in Misplaced Pages. Today I've been gazing through the computing reference desk and watching the others to contribute. I've seen that you are interested in the field of Science and Maths (as posted by you in your User Page). In fact, I am interested in those fields too. Then if I personally discuss with you about Science and Maths on your talk page, will you mind something? If not, will you kindly permit me to do the same? Thank you. ] (]) 16:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
	::Setting a minimum time isn't really sufficient, as an Admin who wants to delete an article can look at the discussion at 5 days, decide that the vote isn't going his way, so just leave it open until the discussion is going his way, then quickly close it before the weight of votes drifts back the other way. ] 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Furthur, I present you the tireless contributor's barnstar for your nice contributions in the Computing Reference Desk ] (]) 16:12, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
			|}
			:Sure, we can discuss science or math here. However, if you have a specific question, the Ref Desk Science or Math pages might be better, as then you will get my contributions and the contributions of others. The others can be a bit mean, though, at times, so you can come here to talk if you feel abused. Also, thanks for the barnstar ! ] (]) 16:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
	:::Any admin who picks a "convenient" time to close an AfD discussion shouldn't be an admin. This is a gross violation of process. Is this your understanding of what happened with Linen Closet? -- ] <small>(])</small> 03:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
	3) Instead of this vague "consensus" concept (where that is determined at the sole discretion of an Admin) a strict vote count should be used. As I'm an "inclusionist" (don't delete things unless you have a damn good reason), I think something like a 90% vote for deletion should be required.
			Thanks a lot friend! I often use the reference desk, but I think it is good for me to keep in touch with someone like you, who is endowed with the golden light of knowledge, for my betterment. And, you obviously deserved the barnstar. Thank you friend, see you again. -Best Regards, ] (]) 16:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
	:The place to propose this would be ], but realistically I think there's effectively no chance that this will change (sorry).
			== The RefDesk ==
	::That's very bad. The current policy, as I understand it, is that the Admin gets to decide what the consensus is, which essentially means he can ignore the votes and do whatever he wants. Not good at all, we need an objective standard, not a highly subjective one. ] 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	:::There's a fair amount of discussion about this at ]. The standard is ]. Anyone is free to use ] to get a decision reviewed (although, honestly, it's generally an uphill fight - the issue is there's almost always at least one person who thinks the decision went the wrong way and there's generally a presumption in favor of the admin). If you'd like to get the decision on Linen Closet reviewed, please do. There is no (alright, shouldn't be any) retribution.
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is obviously not the first time you've received this award, but there's no such thing as too many barnstars, especially when they're well deserved! Thanks for your helpful and ] answers. :-) ] (]) 05:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 05:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
	4) To accuse somebody of using sockpuppets, an Admin must have some actual evidence, like that both the sockpuppet and user share a common I/P address.
			== Farts and Stuff ==
	:I haven't found the discussion about the alleged sockpuppetry, but per ] if you simply said you're weren't sock puppeting the admin should have backed off (pending some sort of evidence). Blocking for use of sock puppets does require evidence, generally based on IP address usage (which is not perfect, but pretty close).
			Thanks for the Beano Advice. I'll take you up on the Yogurt with Cultures. I'm reading this book on Salt by Mark Kurlansky. In it he mentions cheese making. page 97, 'Rennet contains Rennin, an enzyme in the stomach of mammals wich curdles milk to make it digestible.' Could this ] be taken as a supplement maybe? I read the wiki articles, something about infant calfs developing stomachs, in the 4th stomach we find this Rennet, it curdles the milk to make it stay in the digestive tract longer for breaking it down longer. Can we say, add some Rennin to our Ovaltine? Cheers,--] (]) 20:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
	::I wasn't actually blocked, just threatened, and all those "suspected sock puppets" voting in my favor were ignored to get the consesnsus to go the way the Admin wanted. That was bad enough, believe me. ] 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
	:::I understand. Do you care if I look at the history of this? I assume it was roughly a year ago. I don't think there's any way at this point to prove (or disprove) sockpuppetry, however IMO the admin should NOT have threatened you, and probably should not have dismissed the votes. I can't vouch for all admins any more than you can vouch for all RD regulars (probably less so, since there are at this point over a thousand admins), but a very large majority are very reasonable. Lots and lots of admins deal with utter assholes on a near constant basis, and are sometimes overly quick to jump to the conclusion that someone they don't know is an asshole, too. I'm sorry you got jumped on, and this helps me understand our interaction a little better as well. -- ] <small>(])</small> 03:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			:You could do that, but it might not taste very good. You can also get rennin and lactase (a milk digestion enzyme), in tablets, here: . If you don't like buying things over the internet, try a store like ]. ] (]) 15:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
	] 16:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			==Thanks!==
	:Would you like to pursue any of these further? -- ] <small>(])</small> 20:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	::I've started a thread on #1 at ]. You're welcome to contribute (or not), completely your choice. -- ] <small>(])</small> 02:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for answering my To Catch A Predator question on the Humanities Reference desk! --] (]) 20:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
			|}
			:You're welcome, and here's a permalink: ]. ] (]) 20:10, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
	== Templates ==
	Also, I wanted to talk about that templates. This one is horribly inflammatory:
			== Barnstar! ==
	<div class="notice" style="background:#ffc; border:1px solid #AAA; padding:0.5em; margin:0.5em auto;"> ] OK, it is time for your joking to end. You are potentially offending people, both here in the Misplaced Pages community and the wider readership. What you are doing could be seen as ] and you could get ] from editing Misplaced Pages for it. '''You might not get another warning before having a block imposed''', so be careful and be serious from now on. <!-- Template:Seriously (level 4 warning) --> </div>
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	This one is better, but still rather unpleasant:
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for your help on ]! ]] 19:37, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 20:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
	<div align="center" class="notice" style="background:#CF9; border:1px solid #AAA; padding:0.5em; margin:0.5em auto;"> ]The jokes are getting old. Humor's great, but Misplaced Pages is a serious encyclopedia. It is time to straighten up and make serious contributions. <!-- Template:Funnybut (level 3 warning) --></div>
			== IP comment ==
	Perhaps it could say something more like this, customized for the Ref Desk, Help Desk, and any other location where questions are asked and answered:
			Some IP (since blocked as an evader) suggested you and I were the same user. Should we tell them, or keep them wondering? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 23:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
	<div align="center" class="notice" style="background:#CF9; border:1px solid #AAA; padding:0.5em; margin:0.5em auto;"> ]Humor is much appreciated, but this question also deserves a serious answer, does anybody have one ? <!-- Template:Funnybut (level 3 warning) --></div>
	] 03:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)		:So were you cloned from my toenail clippings or was I cloned from yours ? :-) ] (]) 04:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
			::I don't know about you, but I was cloned from the tonail clippings of Henny Youngman. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 06:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
	:It's one of a series of user warnings, for use on user talk pages not on article pages. Your wording sounds like something for the RD. Is the issue you don't want it on this page? The point is to encourage a user to stop doing something. I hope we're at the point of having a rational discussion. I don't see any particular reason to keep it here. -- ] <small>(])</small> 04:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::Well, that's better than being cloned from ], as many others at the Ref Desk appear to be, based on how they think the sky is falling every time someone cracks a joke. ] (]) 14:30, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
	::Our edits seem to have crossed paths. Templates like this are almost never used at the point of reference, but on the user talk page (at the point of reference generally the offending comment is simply removed). The "forum" style pages (HD, RD, VP) are perhaps special, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to have these sorts of templates on the RD. -- ] <small>(])</small> 04:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::Good point. Sometimes it reminds me of Graham Chapman's military character, who complained that the Monty Python sketches were getting "silly": "No one enjoys a good joke more than I do! Uh, except for the Colonel... and my wife... and some of her friends... come to think of it, ''everyone'' enjoys a good joke more than I do! But no matter!..." ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 14:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
	:::I think the last one might be good to let everyone know the question remains unanswered. When I see several pages of replies, I generally assume there's an answer in there somewhere, but this would let me know there wasn't, at least at the point where it's posted. I think I'll propose it at the Ref Desk talk page and see who salutes. ] 04:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
	::Yes, ref desk talk page seems like a good idea. -- ] <small>(])</small> 04:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)		:::::Right, we need to send them all of for re-education at the ]. ] (]) 15:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
			::::::Indeed. Sometimes I feel like I'm in ]. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 15:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
	== Temptation: would a doctor help? ==
			:::::::Or talking with ]. ] (]) 15:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
	Honestly Stu, there is such a rich ] of ] untapped material building up that I get so tempted to put in just a ''little'' funny here and there and that its becoming almost unbearable. What is the best way to get over this ] for joking? See a doctor? 8-))--] 11:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			== thanks ==
	I mean there was a real 'gift' just recently and I had to back off so hard it hurt. I'll let you guess which one that was. You may or may not appreciate my toned down reply to it. (No I think you will actually) 8-)--] 11:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			for the answer on the computing refdesk!] (]) 01:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
	:Why not list it here ? You know I always appreciate a good joke. ] 12:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 01:33, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
	Its not so much a joke but slightly reminscent of the tapeworm saga (well it involves a similar part of the anatomy). As I say its a recent edit, not too hard to find, written by me etc. I could hardly stop lol. But perhaps Im over due for my medicine 8-)--] 12:51, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			== Super job! ==
	Ok its here . Now if thats not potentailly very funny, I must go see my shrink soon!--] 13:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			{{award2|
	:Yep, I see some potential there, like "If your bottom is dirty, try to wipe it clean". ] 13:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			image=Refdesk barnstar candidate2.png|size=100px|
			topic=The Refdesk Barnstar|
			text= Thanks for '']'' -- '''exactly''' what I needed! ''']''' <sup>(] | ])</sup> 01:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
			}}
	:Or "] say: Smoking pot with chili lead to stain on bottom." ] 13:20, 31 October 2006 (UTC)		::You're welcome ! ] (]) 07:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	::Thank god Im still sane after all this time here 8-)--] 14:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your Usefulness in General, and for finding ] in Particular ] (]) 21:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
			|}
	:::I prefer to say: "Thank god I'm still '''IN'''sane after all I've been through". ] 14:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks ! ] (]) 21:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
			== ASCII Art barnstar ==
	:::Well of course in the old days here when we used to lock mentally ill people away, one of the sayings was:
	''There are more ''out'' than'' in you know!''
	:::Now of course we're all out! HAHAAA HAAAAA! THeyll never get me!--] 14:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			For your ASCII I hereby award you this ASCII art barnstar (created by Steve Baker). ] (]) 19:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
	== Barnstars ==
			/\
			/**\
			_______/****\_______
			*.******/^^\******.*
			*.***( () )***.*
			*.**\,./**.*
			/**.**.**\
			/*.* *.*\
			/.* *.\
			' `
			:LOL, thanks. ] (]) 20:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
	{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			== Thank you ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''For being awesome on the Reference Desk'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Please accept this ] poster in kind thanks for all the spectacular work I see you do quite often at the Reference Desks. ] (]) 04:12, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
			|}
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 13:26, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Teamwork Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Outstanding improvements made to the new article ]. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 19:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
			== Nice... ==
			. I'm still chuckling. My wife thinks I'm crazy. Thanks for that! --]''''']''''' 02:17, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
			:As an aside, it's probably time to archive this page. Its becoming difficult to load it all... --]''''']''''' 02:18, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
			::Yep, you're right. ] (]) 12:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
			== Dems/GOP ==
			I just wanna say is the best summary of the two parties I've ever seen. Cheers. ] <small>]-]</small> 15:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 15:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | thanks for the physics help ] (]) 06:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
			|}
			:You're welcome ! ] (]) 06:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
			== WikiThanks ==
			]<!-- Template:WikiThanks --> Thanks for your recent contributions! ] (]) 13:46, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
			:::You're welcome. Any in particular ? ] (]) 16:57, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
			== An award for you ==
			{{award2|image=Goldenwiki 2.png|size=100px|topic=Golden Wiki Award|text=In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! ] (]) 23:05, 10 April 2012 (UTC)}}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 23:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
			== Lol ==
			made me laugh. Thanks. ] (]) 23:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. I would thank you for your comment, but that would be, well...
			:] (]) 23:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you ==
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" |{{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]|]}}
	|rowspan="2" |		|rowspan="2" |
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Modest Barnstar'''
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | You are among the top 5% of most active Wikipedians this past month! ] (]) 22:51, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Sorry this is (very) late, but I had meant to give you a barnstar for your comment at the reference desk a few months ago. In answer to how copper wiring was made you said: "Two thrifty Scots found the same penny at the same time." Thank you for lightening up Misplaced Pages. | ] <font color="MidnightBlue">]</font> 11:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
	|}		|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 23:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
	Och Aye but isnt that a bit racialist these days? Plus if you said that in Glasgow.... well I wouldnt! 8-)--] 11:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			== I wanted to thank you for the work on the 3D to 2D generation ==
	:Thanks ! I'm partially Scottish myself, and very cheap, so claim the right to make fun of myself. ] 12:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
			I have to first offer about a million apologies for not writing a note on the reference desk sooner. The code you wrote was very daunting (and still is) and I kept procrastinating understanding it properly and converting it. The images you just added help enormously as well! This is exactly the effect I'm looking for.
	Ah so it was you and your brother who found that penny? 8-)
			As for the code, give me a little more time. I may have follow-up questions here for you. Sorry again that you didn't get more limelight while the question was more prominent, it is just really hard for me to start using. (This is probably why there aren't highly accessible tutorials online, and why I had to ask you for help with this in the first place).
	== Chianti and fava beans, ==
			I know you're a volunteer contributor, and I didn't mean to be ungrateful. Thank you again, this is hard work!!! --] (]) 18:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
	:''Before you break out the Chianti and fava beans, ...''
			:Thanks (I was starting to worry that you had dropped dead). I'd be glad to help with any additional questions you have or clarifications needed on what I posted. ] (]) 18:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
	Well done, StuRat, well done! :-)
			:I just reviewed my code at the Ref Desk (]), and one thing I might change is the name of the variables "V_SHRINK_STEP" and "H_SHRINK_STEP". "V_SHRINK_RANGE" and "H_SHRINK_RANGE" would have been better (or "VShrinkRange" and "HShrinkRange" in C variable names). Also, you'll note in my last pic that having the image darken as it approaches the vanishing point really helps in making it look 3D. I didn't include the code to do that in my example, to simplify it, but would be glad to give you an example of that code, once you master the basics. ] (]) 19:13, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
	] 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Incidentally, if you just can't get it to work at all, I can provide you with a FORTRAN executable. This could be run using a "system" call from C, etc. In that case, I'd have it read all the arguments from one input file and the bitmap from another, to avoid all the ugliness that happens when trying to pass arguments between C and FORTRAN. It would then write the projected bitmap to a new file. ] (]) 19:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks ! ] 19:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
	== User Account Drama Cont'd ==		== Bedrock City thanks ==
	Just to continue on from the Computer reference desk, where would i be able to find the system files? ] <i><font size="1"><font color="blue">]</font></font></i> 14:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)		Thanks for the reply to my question about Bedrock City's Mt. Rockmore. I should have read the WP article. -- ] (]) 23:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. I'm often amazed at the info we have in our articles, myself. ] (]) 02:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
	:I'm not familiar with where Windows XP keeps it's systems files, but, in Windows 98 they are mostly in the root directory ("\") or in "\Windows\System" on the boot drive (usually "C:"). To find them on your system, try creating a new user profile with a unique name, then doing a find for all files containing that text. To be sure you get all the system files, though, it's probably a good idea to back up the entire boot disk. ] 14:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	::K thanks, if i can correct the problem i'll let you know. ] <i><font size="1"><font color="blue">]</font></font></i> 16:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	== What would you say ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For work on the reference desk. Thank you. ] (]) 18:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 03:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
	What would you say if it turns out there are no guidelines or policies on jokes or humour on WP 8-))--] 21:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Thank you ! ==
	:I'm not sure we need any. The same rules apply to jokes as well as anything else, don't be rude, etc. ] 21:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
			I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to give your input to my questions. It is appreciated. ] (]) 20:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
	::I know we dont. But most critisicm against me has been on the basis that there are guidelines on jokes. Hence the (worthless) templates. Get it?--] 22:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 20:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
	::Watch that space (talk:Ref desk) closely in the next day or 2!--] 00:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
	== From Phil ==		== A kitten for you! ==
			]
	Thank you for your comments. I'm somewhat at a loss to how to respond correctly, as this did come out of the blue a bit. However, I thought it would be polite to let you know I recieved them, and that I appreciate it. ] <sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks for taking the time to answer my question (and surely others!) at the reference desk, and providing a link to NutritionData.com. The input and links I received from those responses has been really valuable! All the best,
			&nbsp; &mdash; ]<span style="margin:0 7px;font-variant:small-caps;font-size:0.9em">&middot; ]]</span> 04:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
	:You're welcome. ] 21:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
			<br style="clear: both"/>
			:You're welcome. Looks like I better put out a saucer of milk. :-) ] (]) 04:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
	== Saddam Hussein ==		== RFA nomination ==
			{{ ombox
	Stu do you think this discussion on RD should be moved to ]? i think its clogging up the RD anmd is clearly against the rules about extended discussions. I moved it one but was reverted. Can you help? 8-)--] 23:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
			| style = width: 90%; margin: auto; background-color: #fffaef; border: 1px solid #999
			| image = none
			| text = '''] would like to nominate you to become an administrator.''' Please visit ] to see what this process entails, and then to accept or decline the nomination. A page {{#ifexist:Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/StuRat|has been created|will then be created}} for your nomination at ''']'''. If you accept the nomination, you must state and sign your acceptance. You may also choose to make a statement and/or answer the optional questions to supplement the information your nominator has given. Once you are satisfied with the page, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.
			}}<!--- Template:RfA-nom. --->
			:your nominator has now asked that the page be deleted due to your apparent lack of response. I'd prefer to be sure that is your intention before doing so. ] (])
	:As long as the actual question was answered, I don't mind leaving it where it is. And, as had been noted, the Saddam Hussein talk page is supposed to be to talk about changes to the Saddam Hussein page, not a chat room about him. ] 23:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
			::Yea, go ahead. I don't like the way the "Adminship for Life" works here, I'd like it be easier to become one, but be term-limited and far easier to be kicked out. As is, it seems to encourage Admins to become a ruling elite, and I'm too democratic to support that. ] (]) 22:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Ok well chat has now been deleted by another user. So no more problem! 8-)--] 02:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::{{done}}. ] (]) 22:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
			On an unrelated note:
	Stu Im sure you know about it but THIS is where we will get the '4 minute warning' of blocking action. I ve been here before! 8-((--] 04:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			]This talk page is becoming '''very long'''. Please consider ]. <!-- Template:Utverylong --> ] (]) 21:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
			:Agreed. ] (]) 22:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
	== Censorship ==
			* I'm impressed. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	Its now started again. This time its ] (admin) removing my legitimate replies to you on how to deal with skid marks. Any suggestions/thoughts?--] 03:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			:*By what ? ] (]) 02:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	:While gross, it seems serious nonetheless. These "tremors" you mention that leave you with "skid marks" sound like a medical problem to me. ] 03:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			::: (out of sequence post). By your approach to editing, and more specifically your views on adminship.— <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	::I was of course referring to ] and or ] by humorous use of the word 'tremors'--] 04:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::Thanks. I take it you agree ? ] (]) 18:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	No Im talking about imminent blocking of me (possibly you as well knowing this admin). Please treat this seriously and think of a defence strategy. 8-((--] 03:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			* I bet you could have succeed RFA process easily. Very sad that you declined nomination. Anyways, Keep answering best at Reference desk. :-) ] (]) 02:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	:I asked him what his complaint is at Ref Desk:Talk. ] 04:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			:*Thanks for the nomination in any case. I may reconsider at some time in the future. ] (]) 02:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	::THanks I saw it. Its a '''her''' actually! We've crossed swords before (I lost) That why I think she's picking on me again ATM 8-(--] 04:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			::: When you do please let me know. You would be the most brilliant candidate. ] ] 09:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	::We (well me really) are now being discussed by pschemp on WP:AN/I 8-((--] 05:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::Thanks ! ] (]) 09:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::Please refrain from posting rude comments about adminstrators (espcially those who block frequently :-)). I really suggest that you e-mail each other, exchaing AIM screen names, or find an external message board to solve this dispute abou "skid marks". ] 00:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::I attended Wikimania this year, and I actually had to stand in line with everybody else to get my lunch! Some of those people didn't even have ''rollback'' and yet they didn't even offer to bus my table. And I had to ride the subway, they didn't even send a limo for me! I had also assumed there was an admin's lounge with unlimited free booze, but noooo. ] (]) 16:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::Its NOT a dispute!! Merely an exchange of views!! And why particularly do you think the subject of 'skid marks' is outside the remit of the WP RDs? Is it becuase you are offended by the term?--] 00:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::LOL. ] (]) 18:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Actually, there are very few terms in the whole English language that offend me. So to answer your question, no. But I do suggest that you find an external way to talk about this so that no one gives you crap. ] 21:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			==Taken Back: Finding Haley==
			I know that this is a girly movie. I watched this movie only because nothing else great was coming on TV. Have you seen this movie before? If you saw this movie before, then why in the world did Haley's fake mother try to kill Haley's biological mother?(] (]) 23:31, 18 August 2012 (UTC)).
	::::::Which rude comments are you referring to? And why should high blockers be immune from comment?--] 08:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Sorry, didn't see it. ] (]) 23:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::That's right, talking about it here could allow certain anal people to smear your reputation, leaving a permanent stain on your name. :-) ] 00:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			==Thank you==
	:::::::Yeah there certainly are a lot of shitty assholes around WP (No names:no ]) 8-)--] 00:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			Thank you indeed really much, be sure I wasn't trolling, I was just worried about my situation with my boyfriend. Thank you for taking me seriously. Thank you again thank you. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 20:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	::::::::FYI, <b>shitty assholes</b> is a rude comment. ] 21:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 21:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::It wasnt addressed to you or anyone, Cbrown So it is actually none of your concern. Hava nice day!--] 21:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Help desk responses ==
	:::::::::I was actually referring to your question of what rude comments I am referring to. After you stated that you posted a rude comment and I was pointing it out to you. I can read, I noticed your statement of "no names" but it is still rude. ] 21:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			Hey Stu, wanted to point something out to you regarding . Per ] we should actually be removing requests for medical advice, not just collapsing them. A small explanation is still a good thing, though. In any event, I didn't touch the section—I don't mean to step on your toes. ]<sub>]</sub> 23:01, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
	I'd like to pinch off this convo, before something nasty comes out. ] 21:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Yea, I didn't recall how to put the deletion template there, so left that for others to do. I do oppose deleting it without any template/explanation, though, as the OP won't know what happened and will just repost. ] (]) 23:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Yeah delete it all Stu. We should NOT be using your page for this converstaion. Aploogies! 8-)--] 21:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Re: Answering ref desk questions on the OPs talk page ==
	== Mathematics Ref Desk ==
			Just wanted to let you know that I don't mean to single you out by raising this. I've seen it done quite a few times and just want some clarity. ] (]) 02:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	Thanks for trying to help me at the ref desk,I'm afraid maths isn't my strong point.Also,it was really kind of you to actually do the problem yourself.I promise I'll read more about maths so that I don't annoy you too much with my silly questions :) ] 06:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			:OK. ] (]) 02:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	:You're welcome. If you'll go ahead and list how you did it I will look for any errors. ] 06:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
	== Why is your name Stu? ==		== Hunting gear on the reference desk ==
			You think they look funny in camo and orange. They turn up in the Arctic in camo. They don't need the orange because the lack of plants more than six inches high and the snow makes them really easy to see. ] (]) 02:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	I am not trying to get into your private life but I just wanted to know if your name is Stuart.
			:I'd expect them to go spend big bucks on white arctic camo, and then put the bright orange back on so they don't get shot. :-) ] (]) 02:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Yep, you got it ! ] 17:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			::Nah. They spend way to much money in the communities to shoot at them. Of course one or two have had heart attacks while out hunting. I once watched one sitting on the airport floor take his rifle out of the case. By the way it seems to me that only US hunters wear the camo gear. I can't recall any other nationality wearing the stuff. ] (]) 03:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
			== Thanks for TV help ==
	My parents once received a letter from my school saying "We would like to congratulate your '''daughter Sturat''' on '''her''' excellent academic performance". I thought it was so funny that I continue to use it as a screen name to this day. ] 17:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			My friend wanted me to thank you for the TV help, we got his existing antenna working better so that all his on-air channels are coming in quite nicely without a new one being installed, and the tiling problem he was having was definitely due to a loop problem. So he has decided to get rid of the cable (which he had been getting for $20 a month, but which they recently raised to $68 for the same service) and is going with netflix, on-air antenna, and an hdmi port for internet downloads. You won't be getting any of the estimated monthly savings, however. :) ] (]) 20:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
	Can I email you? Will you reply me? ] 20:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
	:E-mail, no, but you can post here and I will respond. ] 03:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)		:Yes, the cheapskate package, that's exactly what I have. :-) What exactly did he do to fix the antenna ? ] (]) 02:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			::I stripped the cord, attached it to a new coax adapter, and put the adapter directly on the RF input, removing the A/B splitter switch, putting the cable which had been on the splitter in thru the component input instead. Last time he did the wiring himself was when he had Pong. His only problem now is that he cannot have the cable and VCR/DVD both plugged in or he gets the loop interference. But that problem will go away once the cable is cut off. Except for the occasional news, weather channel, ballgame, and TCM movie, I haven't watched TV myself in quite a while. I was curious if you are familiar with Eye TV? A friend had it in Manhattan and got his cable channels off the internet somehow, he paid a one time equipment charge and apparently he had access to satellite feeds? Do you know how that works? Just let me know yes or no here, and I will post it as a question on the entertainment board. ] (]) 03:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	== RefDesk Trolling ==
			:::Not familiar with that one, no, but I've heard of using your own satellite antenna to get unencoded satellite channels. When I looked at them, they were mostly foreign language channels, and the startup cost was quite high, so I dropped the idea. Perhaps Eye TV gets them off the satellite feed and puts them on the Internet. I'd have to think the content providers will eventually get around to encoding their channels, though, and you would lose this ability. From the looks of the wide range of over-the-air channels available there, I don't think the unencoded satellite channels would add much to his viewing experience. ] (]) 03:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	Hello StuRat.
			::::This guy was in an airshaft in manhattan with no TV reception at all. He sold me my Mac. He had cut off his cable. Unfortunately he's moved and I don't know how to contact him. He told me he paid one time for the equipment, and that somehow there was a free feed or feeds on the internet, which he didn't himself see to actively have to visit. I don't know if he accessed a URL or if the machine gathered the feeds for him. He simply ran a program with a TV Guide type interface with listings he clicked on to "DVR" for regular recording. Or he could watch live, and it did not seem to be some cheap/pirate streaming service. I know he got Fox News in various versions and downloaded various shows like will and grace which I assume was not pay. (I saw him load these shows from his DVR type file and watch them when they were not live.) I don't think he had access to pay channels like HBO. The bizarre thing is that when i visited eyetv's website they said nothing about what channels were available or how you accessed them. I did not get the impression he was pirating, the data seemed freely accessible from the networks. ] (]) 04:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	I noticed your "I'm going to start removing all these trolling "foolish culture of the west" "questions" today. I think you're right, that particular question appeared to be trolling couched in the form of a question. The reference desk is the part of WP most open to trolling like this, because of its discussion based format. Is there anything that can be done about it? If we change or delete peoples questions wouldn't this be censorship? --] 11:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::I don't think it's exactly pirating, more "grey market". That is, those networks aren't terribly concerned if a few people get their shows for free, it's just not worth their time to block it. However, that may change in the future, which is probably why Eye TV doesn't guarantee you anything. It might have been a good alternative in his case, with no over-the-air stations, but I don't think it is when you have a wide selection already. ] (]) 04:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Yes, and there have been a series of questions like this, maybe one a week, that all contain something quite similar to that phrase. ] 17:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::Makes sense. You'd think they would at least say 'gives access to "available" channels'. Not to sound like the sour grapes fox, but I don't need it, and fear it would be too complicated for my friend who would really only want certain ball games that might not be available anyway. Sorry about the bizarre deletion, can't figure out what I did, since the edit box was still open. ] (]) 04:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	::They are all from one user, {{user|kjvenus}}, formerly {{user|Kartikv47}}. &nbsp;--]] 07:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::No prob. Here's a site which discusses free satellite TV a bit: , along with a list of English channels: , and HD channels: . You'd need a satellite dish with motorized control (both rotation and elevation) if you want to watch programs off more than one satellite and want to track each satellite as it moves. They also offer that service where they put the signals on the Internet for you. As you can see from that list, those stations aren't the premium ones, they are supported by advertising or donations, so allow you to view it for free. ] (]) 04:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	== the limits of pattern recognition, and posting homework to RefDesk ==
			::::::::It would be a huge stretch even getting him to do the eye tv if that would work, since he'd be against the hdmi, even though he's got three computers. (He lets me do hdmi when I visit.) I'll pass on the internet signal option. I am quite sure the idea of rotating satellite antennae would be dismissed out of hand. But I will pass it on. Thanks again for all the help. ] (]) 05:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	Hello StuRat, I recently got my submission to the RefDesk flagged with "Do your own homework." Now looking back at the question posed, it does look like a good candidate for being a homework question: it is explained in detail with supporting information, and the answer is non-trivial and would likely edify its student. But it is emphatically NOT homework. I started from ZERO in framing this question to the end of making a real-life application of its solution. They say that great questions are harder to discover than great answers, and while the question isn't particularly profound in that sense, it nonetheless took me a lot of hours of thinking and study and library trips and internet searches to get where I've gotten so far...and even to find the Reference Desk of the Misplaced Pages was not something that came easily, I've been to Google's Answers and Yahoo! Answers and still haven't found the answer to my question. I did recently get a tip from a friend about using a certain technique, but I don't know if it's the only one or the best or if it will even work (and neither does he), so my search continues...all in all, thanks for listening to my rant about the "limits of pattern recognition" as my question may quack like a duck but it's not a duck (NOT homework, NOT offloading all the work on someone else either)--it's my honest-to-Pete question! --] 05:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::::I agree, this is not a good option for him, although I don't understand his objection to an HDMI cable. Is it connecting the computer to the TV he doesn't like ? One drawback is that your program can freeze up when the computer is slow, which means you don't want to run anything on the computer at the same time. ] (]) 05:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Why not list the method your friend suggested, and ask us if that's a valid approach to take ? That's the type of question that gets answered. ] 06:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::::Hehe. He wants the days back when ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS were your only options, and you had to get up and turn the knob to change the channel, and bang it on the side to fix the tracking. The idea of a computer hooked to a cord hooked to a TV offends his sense of aesthetics. (Same guy I was interested in the direction speaker for, he would never accept an earplug.) Although I have actually got him blogging, which he does in all caps, (more attention getting) Lol! The bottom line question for him is, can he put up without watching Greta at 10pm, without the weather channel, and can he go without the local baseball games broadcast proprietarily on Comcast. As for me, the last show I watched in full on TV when it was broadcast was ]. ''House'' and ''Damages'' I have downloaded for the last five years, and they are both over now or soon. I'll keep you posted. ] (]) 05:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	::I've now done so. --] 07:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::::::I can relate to his major networks desire. It seems like the more channels we get, the higher the ratio of crap to quality TV is. Some devices allow you to block certain channels (my digital-to-analog converter box does this, but not for sub-channels). This will become increasingly important as we get more and more channels of crap (there's only just so much crap you can stand to wade through before finding something you like). As for ''Farscape'', I preferred ''Babylon 5'' and ''Serenity/Firefly'', myself. ] (]) 05:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	== Ref desk joke that goes too far ==
			::::::::::::Well, anything with ], I mean, ''come on'', nudge, nudge, wink, wink. But the Ben Browder/Claudia Black thing was also very hot. I was never able to get into ''Serenity/Firefly'' even though I am a libertarian and a Whedon fan. Much preferred ''Dr Horrible'' and ''Dollhouse.'' My golden age was the original Battlestar Gallactica, with Tom Baker as Doctor Who on weekends and Spock and Kirk in reruns. ] (]) 21:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			== OK, that scored a point... ==
	Hi StuRat. I think your comment is the sort of joke that it would be better not to make on the reference desk. It doesn't really help answer the question, and I believe it ''would'' be offensive to many Catholics. Can you consider removing it, or at least be more careful with your jokes in the future? Thanks. -- ] 22:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			At 20:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC), on RD/C, you said,
	:It's not a joke, but an observation on an absurd result of Catholicism, which is designed to be thought-provoking. ] 22:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:''I've coded in C and similar languages, and hate them with a passion, so would like to avoid doing any of that.''
			Y'know, we may be two of a kind after all :-). When I got out of grad school (in the days of the IBM 360), my basic attitude was, ''If it can't be done in FORTRAN it ain't worth doing''. I will admit to finally coming to grips with C proper, but C++ and its ilk, shall we say, "accelerated my retirement" from the industry.
			Peace be with you, brother!
	::Why are these types of discussions taking place on the Ref desk anyway? Futhermore, why are you not just removing them on site if they look stupid or possibly offensive (such as "skidmarks"). (This course of action is acceptable; the reason being the clause of it "not being a soapbox"). ] 22:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			] (]) 20:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::That type of behavior is likely to lead to edit wars. ] 22:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Yes, as I mentioned before, I once worked with a C programmer, who swore that C was better than Fortran, yet he needed me to track down all the bugs in his code, which were invariably due to the confusion in C of passing variables by address, value, or pointer (or some other problem which only exists in C). They've also expanded Fortran to include most of the good parts of C, like bit manipulation, but not yet, to my knowledge, GUI interfaces with Windows. ] (]) 20:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::Maybe ] didnt intend to link ] with ], but '''he did'''. Was that intended as a joke in bad taste? That could be interpreted as a blockable action. 8-( Asking how to remove skidmarks from underwear is a perfectly legitimate question. --] 22:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Dude! ==
	:::::It may be a legitimate question, but it is not acceptable for that page and (possibly) Misplaced Pages. ] 22:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			I am ''so'' disappointed to see you signed that "award". That was not my goal! I agree that the pedants and mavens and Gladys Kravitzes should eff themselves. ] (]) 02:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::So where do people go to ask about removing '''skid marks?''' BTW do you know the best way?--] 23:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Lectern ==
	:::::::idk, I'd just throw them away and buy new ones. ] 23:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks for the quick turnaround on ] just now. If I get around to finding a good online EN<>NL dictionary, I won't take up space on the WP Ref Desks with one-word lookups :-) ''-- Cheers, ] (]) 06:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)''
	::::::::Which is exactly where I came in!--] 00:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks. I just used Google Translate, but would reject it if the translation sounded hinky. Short titles like this seem to work well, though, in general, since complex grammar doesn't come into play. ] (]) 06:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::<s>You may also want to start at the source, your but and see what's wrong with it or fix it....... lol... awkward! ] 00:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)</s>
			== Carrots ==
	::::::::::That is an '''offensive comment''' against me. Please remove it immediately! 8-((--] 00:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
	:::::::::::lol... if that's really true than you can remove it; I was just saying that you should try to fix it. ] 00:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			But you do get purple, orange and green cauliflower, don't you? :>) ] (]) 21:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::Yes, we don't want to set a precedent where any question about something impolite or controversial is removed automatically. For example, there might be many kids who can't ask anybody else about certain topics but feel safe here, because it's anonymous. We should support that type of welcoming environment, not stifle it by being politically correct. ] 22:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:We briefly had small orange ones, but I haven't seen them recently, just the white ones. ] (]) 21:57, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::But it is not the job of the Ref desk to handle those questions. If you feel that those types of questions need to be answered some how, then please create a new help desk (maybe ]). Shouldn't all relative questions be able to be answered by the articles, considering they are supposed to be ''encyclopedia pages'' with answers to ''questions'' and information? Other wise, I doubt they belong there. Plus, if they have a question about girls or sex; what are their parents, teachers, guidance counselors, trusted adults, or principals for and why should we, people on the internet who they have never met and could be lying about who they say they are, answer for them. Seriously, what are we here to do? Write an encylopedia or answer little kids' questoins about sex or girls? Or just questions aboout removing "skid marks"? ] 22:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			::My goodness, you are missing out. The coloured ones are generally much better for you, too. Perhaps your local greengrocer could be persuaded. They are everywhere in southern Ontario. ] (]) 22:01, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::It was suggested that, when we split up the Ref Desk further (after volume becomes unmanageable with the current system), we will add a Sex & Relationships Desk. You'd best steer clear, for fear of being offended. Perhaps you need to create a ], where only proper questions on the proper use of fondue sets are asked by proper young ladies and gentlemen. ] 23:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
	:::::::Seems like a good proposal. But as I stated with Light current, very few things offend me, especially not sex. ] 23:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)		:::Agreed. I don't buy white cauliflower. If I want to fart all week, I buy broccoli instead. :-) ] (]) 22:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Military spending and corruption ==
	::(Reply to StuRat's initial reply) If it was intended as a factual comment, there are three major problems. First, you need to cite actual studies rather than just giving your vague impressions, because I rather suspect what you said isn't true. Second, you phrased your comment as a generalization about Catholic girls, so that it was apparently a comment on what they are individually like, rather than as a statistical statement&mdash;young women who self-identify as Catholic have a variety of positions on both pre-marital sex and birth control. Third, your comment was off-topic and was a vehicle for presenting your personal views rather than facts; such a"thought-provoking" comment implying problems with the beliefs of a religion was neither requested nor necessary. -- ] 23:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			I just don't like calling it corruption because it's simply so ''weird''. "Corruption" would imply that there was some nefarious plot to make gains from buying a product with someone else's money. But in the cases we're talking about: A) The seller didn't ask for the contract; B) the end user didn't ask for the contract; and C) the buyer was never promised a kickback. Yes, the process stinks of corruption, but I feel like it should have a more specific name, but I can't come up with a phrase simpler than stupid-things-politicians-do-for-votes. ] (]) 04:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::No, sources are not required with every reply on the Ref Desk. If so, 90% of the questions would go unanswered. My comment was related to the previous response. Your comment here was not requested, so should I just delete it ? ] 23:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			:I see. Personally I think we should label many things as corruption which are currently accepted in the US, like pork-barrel spending, earmarks, bundling unrelated things together in one bill, Gerrymandering, lobbyists, large campaign donations, etc. ] (]) 04:18, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::Your talk page is for talking to you about Misplaced Pages content; I am thus using it for an appropriate purpose. Your comment on the reference desk did not fit the purpose of the reference desk, which is to help answer questions factually. Using the reference desk as a platform to randomly give an opinion that is a) not backed up by facts, and b) likely to be insulting to users, is simply not acceptable. -- ] 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			==Another barnstar for you!==
	:::::I was merely pointing out that your standard that only "requested" comments are allowed is inherently absurd. ] 23:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For helping out in answering many of my questions at the Reference Desk. You deserve this barnstar. :) ] (]) 20:32, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			|}<!--Template:The Barnstar of Diligence-->
			:Thanks! ] (]) 20:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::He may have phrased it incorrectly, but it is true. Comments that answer the question and nothing else (no insulting items) are supposed to be posted there. It is supposed to help new users (and others) and posting things like that might scare them off. Now, anything can be posted on a userpage but can also be removed by the user at any time as well (i.e. you could ''delete'' every single word on this page and ]). ] 00:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			::You're welcome. :D Keep up the good work. ] (]) 21:09, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::The primary purpose of the reference desk is answering peoples' questions. If you made an off-topic remark with no other problems, nobody would think anything of it, of course, but your remark had other problems as well. You gave your opinion as fact, and deny any responsibility to justify it, and that hurts the purpose of the reference desk. I would like you to address my concerns a little more thoroughly and carefully, please. -- ] 00:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::I have a question--would you be able to please help me out with this question--]? If not, that's okay. Thank you very much. ] (]) 04:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::It would help if you could list them out more clearly, but, I will try to do so for you:
			::::Sorry, I don't have an insight into that Q. ] (]) 04:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::1) Any question which may be taken to be offensive is banned. No, because somebody will be offended by just about anything, such as ]s being offended by any mention of the ].
			== Windows 7 ==
	::::::::2) "You need to cite actual studies rather than just giving your vague impressions". I've addressed this: You are wrong, there is no prohibition on answers which lack a cited source.
			Hello StuRat, I was reading the Computing refdesk; if I'm understanding correctly, you still use Windows XP. I am the same way - I am forced to use 7 while at work and dislike it over XP. I've had the laptop that runs XP since 2006 and I "fear" upgrading to a more modern machine will leave me stuck with 7. I am also the same way with Microsoft's interface changes, including ribbons in Office products, some Windows programs, and eventually Explorer itself (see Windows 8...ugh). What do you dislike about 7? -- ] (]) 17:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::3) "Statements should be formed such that they are scientifically rigorous, referring to statistics rather than individual cases" (paraphrased). While this might be a goal, it certainly isn't enforced. For example, on the Language Desk, we are talking about what a "biscuit" means in US English vs UK English. Nobody is capable of citing a study that says "95% of those in England, 90% of those in Scotland, and 85% of those in Ireland, refer to a 'biscuit' when they mean a sweetened desert pastry in the range of 10-50 grams." Instead, we get statements like "What we Brits call a biscuit, you Americans call a cookie." This answer is quite useful despite lacking a statistical analysis or cited references.
			:In general Windows upgrades seem to change things for no apparent reason (like when they renamed "File Manager" from that clear name to the obscure name "Office Explorer"), with very few actual improvements. It also has a tendency to be ], where they add in features few people would want, which ends up slowing things down with little benefit (remember the dancing paperclip "office assistant" ?). I am an advocate of a ], where you only fix what's broken and "don't fix it if it aint broke". If Windows followed that model, instead of changing things for no apparent reason, it would be a much better product by now. Unfortunately, the real reason for new Windows releases seems to be marketing, not improvement in the product, which means they want it to ''look'' "new and improved", not actually be improved. Then there's the chaotic Windows version naming system (Windows 3.x, Windows 95, 98, 2000/Millenium, NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8). What should we expect next, Windows Flamingo, then Windows C, followed by Windows Mary, and Windows 13.8.9.E ? ] (]) 22:33, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::4) Replies cannot be off-topic. A certain amount of off-topic discussion is permitted, to foster a sense of community, and always will be. The requirement is more that it be somehow related. For example, in the question about using a hacksaw to cut up a couch, suggesting other methods for cutting up a couch is certainly close enough to be allowed, while talking about dog farts would not be.
			:As for Windows 7, my main objection is that I'd need to buy a new PC to run it. ] (]) 22:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::5) Personal views are not allowed on the Ref Desk. Yes they are, and, in fact, they are often requested by the OP.
			::Just saw your latest question at the computing refdesk. Apologies if I'm prying too much, but what led to the change in your thinking? Now that you're using Windows 7, do you prefer it over XP? -- ] (]) 16:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::6) Only requested replies are allowed on the Ref Desk. (Wrong, see below.)
			:::Old PC died on me, see here: ]. I tried to find a refurbished PC with XP on it, but, as it happened, the store where I went only had Windows 7. So, I gave it a try. The only actual improvement I've found so far is some additional capabilities with MS Paint. On the other hand, many things that used to work no longer seem to, and many other things have changed for no apparent reason, meaning I have to learn how to use my PC again. Also, some rather basic utilities, like ones with the ability to unzip files, were absent. So, pretty much as I expected. If they just added the upgraded version of MS Paint to Windows XP, gave me that, and promised to continue to support XP indefinitely, I'd be a lot happier. ] (]) 18:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::] 00:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			== I don't like people talking ==
	:::::::::Thanks for your my detailed reply; I'm glad this discussion can continue, because I think it is vital to the reference desk continuing to work. My responses to your comments:
	:::::::::#I'm not talking about banning questions. I'm talking about which replies are unhelpful. Replies that are offensive ''to no purpose'' are bad; those which have a clear purpose, of course, are useful.
	:::::::::#There may be no prohibition on giving your off-the-cuff impressions, but we are a ''reference desk'' that should be providing ''facts'' and not opinions. In particular, if you say something that's not at all obviously true, you should be prepared to back it up with a reference to a Misplaced Pages article or other source.
	:::::::::#Yes, this is not rigorously enforced, but it is still good to do it and bad not to.
	:::::::::#A certain amount of off-topic posting is ok, yes, but it becomes bad when it interferes with the functional answering of questions.
	:::::::::#I don't know where you get the idea that personal views are a good for the reference desk. It is a reference desk, not an advice column, and it is certainly not a soap box! People should be asking factual questions, and receiving factual answers.
	:::::::::#I don't care what has been done in the past. The purpose of the reference desk is to answer questions. Off-topic remarks are not a problem, ''as long as they don't interfere with the purpose of the reference desk.''
	:::::::::The way out of this muck is to aknowledge that there are shades of grey, and not to rules lawyer. There are six points above, where I claim there is a preferable approach and a non-preferable approach. Missing ''some'' of the points is not a big deal; but your comment missed ''all'' of them. That's why I object to it. -- ] 01:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			about me behind my back (or telling me my questions are unanswerable, because they can't helpfully answer them...or incoherent...or badly answered by other perople, and so forth) so please see this discussion . ] (]) 23:43, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::Don't complain about "rules lawyering" when you had asked me to respond "more thoroughly":
			:Thanks for telling me, although taking everything less personally would also be appreciated. ] (]) 00:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::::1) I had a purpose, to let him know to be careful about birth control. Assuming that just because he is dating a church girl he doesn't need any will cause an unwanted baby or an abortion.
			== A cookie for you! ==
	:::::::::::2) I could argue just the opposite: If you say that Catholic girls have a lower rate of premarital sex or an equal rate of birth control usage, then you need to back that up with proof.
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	:::::::::::3) Not in all cases, as in the one I gave.
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I like edit of yours, but the next edit is a misconception. ] (]) 00:28, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 00:31, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::::4) My reply was quite short, and after several serious answers had been given, so not interfering with getting an answer in any way.
			== Detroit weather ==
	:::::::::::5) Opinion and fact are not as distinct as you think. In language, for example, what the majority of people think is right, is, by definition, correct. Language is nothing more than the summation of human opinions. Much on the Humanities Desk is similar, as are Computer Desk questions about which device is better, and many Misc Desk questions. Even "soft" sciences, like psychology, are mostly about opinion. Only the Math Desk should be relatively free of opinion. And even there, questions like "what math do you think I need to be an economist" are inherently opinion.
			Moved from ]. ] (]) 20:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::::6) The past sets the precedent for the future, so you should care about it, especially as the Ref Desk has been functioning just fine (notice the large volume of questions and answers, many by me) without major interference. In short, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
			:StuRat loves to comment on all manner of things outside his competence. While he is not entirely wrong, it's pretty hard to freeze a lead acid battery, unless it is a tiny one, or you live in the arctic circle. This is because the freezing point of the electrolyte is around -7 C, and because the specific heat is about that of water, that is, very high, the inside temperature will tend to remain at about the diurnal average.
	::::::::::My comment didn't miss all of them, as it was related to the topic, had a purpose, didn't interfere with getting a good answer, and I believe it to be factual (you dispute this, but I await your proof).] 01:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:Wickwack] (]) 07:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
			::I've had batteries freeze and split, as we get -7°C (19.4°F) temperatures every winter. We can have weeks where it never gets above that temperature. I'm in ], nowhere near the ]. I currently have a vehicle in storage, and have to either keep the battery charged or remove it, to prevent it from discharging, then freezing and splitting. The same issue applies to batteries on the shelf in an unheated garage. Since you apparently don't know that this is a potential issue with lead-acid batteries, I question your competence. ] (]) 07:57, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::::It was not substantially related to the question, but rather a total tangent, unless you were seriously ''advising'' him to treat Catholic women according to your generalization. Its purpose was, apparently, to randomly discuss your viewpoint; this does not fit the purpose of the reference desk. It may not interfere (much) with a good answer, but it sure didn't help. Your belief that it's factual is immaterial; you can't just present your views (based on what??) and not be willing to justify them if requeste&mdash;the whole ''point'' of the reference desk is to help people find ''information'', which means sources rather than just telling them the answers. I don't know what else I can say; I'm happy to explain things as much as you like, but in the end your remark just wasn't appropriate. -- ] 03:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with lead acid batteries, having worked as a photovoltaic solar power project Engineer/manager, and have been involved with computer room UPS storage. Part of the solar power role involved estimating battery temperature. I can also check Misplaced Pages for Detroit climate data. It says that while temperatures as low as -29.4 C have been recorded, the lowest monthly average is -3.1 C. The lowest daily average will be lower than that, but not much lower. As the battery stores heat very effectively, the overnight minimum is not relevant. Is WP wrong? It must be if you get "weeks where it never gets above -7C". Wickwack] (]) 08:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::::It is related to the question, and particularly related to the comment right before. I am advising him to be sure he ALWAYS has birth control, do you think this is bad advice ? It's not "random", but related to the question. (A random discussion of my viewpoint would have been to insert my preference for direct democracy over representative democracy.) It didn't interfere at all with getting a good answer. And, I'm sorry, but there is no standard that those posting responses must be willing to cite references, if asked. Besides which, I haven't been asked, except by you, and you're obviously not actually interested, at all, just trying to make things more difficult for me. As for it not being appropriate, that's up to the OP to decide, don't you think ? I haven't heard any complaint from them. I've responded to ALL of your concerns; you're just manufacturing a problem when then isn't one, and taking up valuable time I could have used to give more answers at the Ref Desk. ] 05:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::Averages aren't relevant. It's the extremes that matter, in this case the record lows. It's actually been warmer the last couple winters here (global warming ?), but International Falls, MN still managed to have 3.5 weeks where it never got above 20°F, in January, 2011, with lows down to -46°F: . That's still nowhere near the Arctic Circle, so you statement that you needn't worry about batteries freezing outside the Arctic Circle is clearly false. Your lack of experience appears to be with lead acid batteries in cold areas. ] (]) 08:20, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::The fact that it was "related to the comment right before" does not make it related to the question; it is rather indicative of the standard chattiness that has become common on the reference desk, and that several users have already expressed concern about. As for the comment being not offensive to me personally, you don't know that&mdash;as it happens, I took note of it because I have several friends whose values I respect (if not necessarily agree with) who would be seriously and personally offended... is that good enough to justify my interest in your eyes? (Not that I was required to justify it, but you should perhaps avoid assuming peoples' motivations in the future.) Your continued assertion that you don't have to provide any justification for your claimed statements of fact, when a ] ''by definition'' is a place that helps people find sources and information, totally defies common sense. We might as well drop this argument now, but you need to understand that community consensus (and my self-imposed obligation to keep Misplaced Pages running smoothly and serving its purpose) are in opposition to you making further remarks like this. I appreciate you responding to my concerns, but this continued behavior remains unnaceptable regardless of your personal views and (I believe) it won't be allowed by the community to stand; please consider this when making comments in the future. -- ] 06:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::Not true. The '''daily''' average is very relavent. The thermal characteristics of a lead acid battery can be modelled as a thermal capacitance equal to the specific heat capacity of the electrolyte (specific heat x mass), isolated from the ambient by the thermal resistance of the case in series with a Carrier air film thermal resistance surrounding by the battery. There is some conduction to ambient via radiation (negligible) and by convection, which can be estimated by Pressman's formula, and is generally close to negligible in typical battery storage conditions. It is analogous to charging an electrical capacitor via a series resistor. If you check such modelling, you'll find that the battery electrolyte temperature tends to remain about the daily average as I said. It will of course vary, but not to the extent of the daily ambient variation, and the electrolyte minimum temperature will lag the ambient minimum by several hours, just as the voltage on a capacitor lags that of a supply voltage applied via a resistor. Wickwack] (]) 08:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::::::My comment was related both to the original question and to the comment directly before it. I don't know what else to say either, I carefully responded and disproved each of your points, and yet you persist. You admit that you were not personally offended, but are just guessing that somebody else might be. That's worse than hearsay, it's more of a "hereguess". You claim that nothing can be stated on the Ref Desk unless it has a source to back it up, despite a total lack of any such rule, written or unwritten. I see no community consensus, I only see you complaining (but please don't go get more Admins to come here and "agree" with you). As for your motivations, I suspect you heard there was a problem at the Ref Desk, so were determined to find one, even if you had to manufacture it. ] 08:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::You didn't understand what I said. That -3.1°C average for January generally includes warmer bits at the beginning and end of the month, with cooler weeks in the middle, where, as I said, it may not get above -7°C for some time. And, of course, some years have a colder January than others. Here's an account from 2009, when Detroit hit -15°F (-26°C): . ] (]) 08:47, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::::::I gave you a compromise, I changed it by adding the word "sometimes", in case it wasn't already obvious that I didn't mean they always skip using birth control. ] 08:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::::I'm well aware that a monthly average min of x degrees means some days will be colder - I pointed that out. I found just now official US NOAA records at http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/cms.php?n=supdata. NOAA identified the recent lowest temperature months in Detroit as Jan and Feb. For 2012, Jan had only 5 days with an overnight min below -7 C, and the lowest daily mean recorded was -15.6 C and occurred on 20 Jan - '''the only day with an average less than -7 C'''. Feb had its lowest point of -11.7 C on 11 Feb, the only day with an average less than - 7 C, it averaged -9 C. All other days were sensibly quite above -7 C in daily average. So I can't quite say you are trying to flog a dead horse, Stu, but it's certainly a terminal nag. I notice you often jump in and supply poorly researched answers that don't stack up - such as windup cellphones, cat eyes, surge protectors, large scale eyes & lots lots more. Wickwack] (]) 12:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	----
	:::::I was merely pointing out that your standard that only "requested" comments are allowed is inherently absurd. To show this, I randomly selected a question, and highlighted those answers which aren't precisely what the questioner asked about. However, the OP did get their answer, so I'm happy with the results. ] 23:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::::As I already said, the last couple winters in Detroit have been warmer than usual. Did you really miss that or are you just being obstinate ? And, as I've proven in the International Falls case, it frequently gets cold enough, for weeks at a time, well outside the Arctic Circle, to freeze a lead acid battery. You were just completely wrong when you claimed it didn't, and this is exactly the type of poorly researched answer you are frequently guilty of. Your initial answer contained zero links or research, so, before you accuse me of not doing any research, learn to do some yourself. ] (]) 20:06, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Blowing up the moon (see above) ==
			:Stu, it's obvious you are a fairly smart guy. You post answers to all manner of questions, and your answers are ''usually'' not entirely wrong exactly. Many answers are really good. But many are quite wrong. Poor answers surely reduce the quality and quantity of both questions and answers on Reference Desk. People who have something worthwhile to say will look, see all the rubbish, and think "this is not what I want". It would be better if you stuck to things you know, or researched the subjects better before posting. I'm not the only person who has told you this. You attempted to defend the indefensible in your recent posts about windup cellphones. Your post on cat eyes brought this response: "Moreover, StuRat's responses are inaccurate and imprecise, at best" and that was very obviously true. Sometimes your initial post to a question is ok, but you make later posts that get further and further from the truth. For example on the Solar Panel Kits question, you started off ok, but you ended with this pearler: "Have you actually had any rechargeable batteries last 20 years ? I tried them, ''and they seemed to hold so little charge after a year or so as to be useless''." Really? I have a Fluke 45 multimeter I bought 25 years ago. My experience is that the rechargeable Gates-type lead-acid battery it uses lasts at least 10 years before capacity drops noticeably. This year I had to buy the second replacement battery. Most consumer grade AGM and gell batteries last about 6 to 10 years in our climate, must warmer than Detroit's. Car batteries usually last 6 years or so. Plante batteries used in telephone exchanges, computer room UPS storage, and the like routinely last 20 years plus, admittedly they are built to higher quality standards. Nickel iron batteries, eg Saft type, last even longer. Some brands of so-called sealed lead acid batteries (there's no such thing as a true sealed lead acid battery - such a thing would be a dangerous bomb. They all have safety vents, though often the vents are concealed under a paper label or thin plastic film.) are no good, e.g., Schonnenshien only lasts about 2 years in warm climates, but that's just a poor quality exception. Wickwack] (]) 00:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	As I was watching ] last night, I had a thought. If we were to drop every nuclear bomb we have on the moon, what impact (if any) would it have for life on earth? --] 04:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			::Complaining, in a Ref Desk Q, about someone's answers to other Q's, does the Ref Desk no good whatsoever. Can't you see that ? If you believe my answer to the current Q to be inaccurate, then prove it so, don't just claim it, without support, as you did (that bit about freezing batteries only being a concern inside the Arctic Circle). If you would stick to the question rather than trying to pick a fight, we would all get along much better. My initial answer to this Q was entirely, 100% correct, but somehow set you off, nonetheless. Personal attacks like that have no place on the Ref Desk. ] (]) 01:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	:'''The biggest repercussion is that we've have no more ] on the planet! Besides, how can one drop a bomb on the moon? -- You have to fly it there first. ] 00:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			:::Clearly, I'm not the only one who has attacked you, ie disputed your posts and/or objected to them. If you didn't keep posting bullshit, you wouldn't get attacked/disputed. Perhaps your frequent off the cuff posts, which you are so obviously keen to defend even when indefensible, are a manifestation of a desire to fight? Were you 100% correct? Not likely! Is the NOAA wrong? Does everybody in Detroit have their car batteries split open multiple times each winter? Do they use some special type of low temperature battery that the industry seems not to have heard off? I think not. If you say you had a battery crack open, I'm sure that you did. But there would have been more to it. I too have seen "sealed" batteries cracked open - it happens. Not from freezing though. Only from faulty manufacture or great age, usually combined with high ambient temperatures. Wickwack] (]) 03:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	:'''We'd be subject to a ]. Sorry, couldn't resist. ] 9:04, 6 November 2006 (PST)'''
			::::Now you're setting up straw men by claiming I said all sorts of things I never did. I certainly hope you understand that only a fully discharged lead-acid battery is liable to freeze, but your statements above seem to indicate that you don't understand that. My statement that you attacked was that batteries which are fully discharged can freeze and split. Are you disputing that ? I do seem to be some people's favorite scapegoat, and apparently you've decided to jump on the bandwagon. I also have many supporters, like the person who just gave me a barnstar below. With the volume of Ref Desk answers I give, there are bound to be occasional mistakes in some, while most are dead on, but I didn't make any mistake when I said that a fully discharged lead-acid battery can freeze and split (outside the Arctic Circle). When you said it couldn't, you were 100% wrong. ] (]) 03:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	::What impact would it have on ''Earth''? I can't imagine how it would affect Earth. (The title of this question is "blowing up the moon", but we can't possibly blow up the Moon. The asteroid that caused the ] delivered much more energy than the world's nuclear arsenal can possibly deliver, yet relatively little happened to the Earth.) --] 05:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::::I did NOT say it couldn't. My actual words were as follows: ''"While he is not entirely wrong, it's '''pretty hard''' to freeze a lead acid battery, unless it is a tiny one, or you live in the arctic circle."''. Don't misread. Go back and read your own posts in the other RED questions I mentioned - you did everything I said you did. Yes, in a discharged battery, the acid concentration is less. But not zero - the freezing point will still be under -7 C if the battery is otherwise still functional, and the thermal capacity and thermal resistance willl be sensibly unchanged. Wickwack] (]) 03:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::My guess is that if the moon was knocked out of orbit, it would change the Earth's orbit, causing temperature changes. IIRC, the moon does cause the Earth to move in a wave-like motion while following the orbit around the sun. It would also affect tides, since tides are related to the moon. But I'm not sure we have enough nuclear bombs to change the orbit of the moon, so probably just a big crater. --]&nbsp;(]) 05:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::::What on Earth did "Does everybody in Detroit have their car batteries split open multiple times each winter?" mean ? Do you imagine we all leave our car batteries fully discharged until they freeze, then replace them, and let the new batteries fully discharge again, and again ? That makes no sense whatsoever. You are flailing about wildly, trying to create a straw man argument. ] (]) 03:56, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	My guess is nothing as I suspect every nuclear weapon wouldn't have enough energy to budge it one bit. But just a guess. Remember the Tsunami that affected onle surface water and also earthquakes that are many thousands of nuclear weapons that don't substanitally impact earth except at a very superficial level. --] 05:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			UPDATE: Now I see you are being accused of providing unreferenced, incorrect Ref Desk answers: . ] (]) 04:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::More drastically, blowing up the moon would cause an instability in the Earth's "wobble". Scary stuff. Check it out . --] 05:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Ref desk barnstar ==
	:::::'''We're going to lose the moon anyway as it is moving away from the earth (over an inch a year I think) and will eventually not be our moon. --] 06:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	:::::'''As that won't happen until ''after'' the Sun goes nova, I suspect that it won't matter that much. ] 07:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Ref desk barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | You maintain an active presence on the ref desk and help answer many questions. For this, I hereby award you the ref desk barnstar! <small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''] ]'''</small> 02:43, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 02:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::'''Fisrt, the Sun is expected to go ], not ]. Second, barring such events or an encounter with an intruding body, the change in the Moon's orbit will never cause it to "not be our moon". The change is caused by ] and the fact that the Earth rotates faster than the Moon moves in its orbit. In the long run the Earth's ] is being transferred to the Moon. This can only go on until the Earth's rotation slows enough so that it always keeps the same face turned towards the moon. Then the day and the lunar month will be the same length (about 40 of our days, I think it works out to). Of course the lengthening day will cause havoc in terms of weather and climate, but the Moon won't be going anywhere. --Anonymous, 00:02 UTC, November 8.'''
			==Titanic==
	:::::::'''Won't the tidal forces imparted by the sun continue to force the moon away from the earth? --] 04:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			I couldn't believe to find so many American Civil War veterans on board haha. Thank you for answering my question so fast. If I could I would give you another barnstar. Thank you ] (]) 11:26, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 18:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
	The only impact I could imagine is that the explosion would be visible from Earth, provided it was on the near side of the Moon and was during night at your location on Earth, and when the Moon is above the horizon. ] 06:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Please be specific ==
	:'''Assuming you're old enough, did you feel anything when any of the American or Russian nuclear tests were done? Not even the ] had any noticeable effect outside of the immediate area. Heck, the U.S. army used to blow up bombs near ] and nobody was disturbed. (Trivia: ] supposedly died of cancer he contracted from filming '']'' in the area.) It would take vastly more than the entire nuclear stockpile to budge the Moon, much less blow it up. ] 07:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			Why is my hatting inappropriate? --]]] 18:29, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
	:'''Okay I know very little about the physics of explosions but would it be possible if you carefully organised the explosions? Rather then just dumping all our bombs on the surfaces and exploding them, I'm thinking of tunnelling perhaps to the core in multiple locations (of course, this is probably outside our current level of expertise). Maybe even designing the bombs in such a way to try and blow up the moon rather then flatten a very large area. ] 10:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			:Because telling people they are free to edit Misplaced Pages is an appropriate answer to any Q on missing content. That is, if you don't like that something was removed, feel free to put it back. ] (]) 18:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
	::'''OT but looking at the John Wayne article, this might not have been the case. He had a 3 pack a day cigarette habit and contracted lung cancer. The radiation he may or may not have been exposed to may or may not have contributed to his cancer but I wouldn't exactly say he contracted the cancer due to the filming. Indeed given the complexity of cancer, I would be reluctant to ever say someone got cancer from something. More accurate to say it was a major contributing factor. In any case, he actually died from stomach cancer 15 years later when he was 72 (and smoking cigars instead of cigarettes) and the article doesn't explicitly say it was a reoccurance of the lung cancer... ] 11:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			::Read the question again. --]]] 18:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::'''Further OT, but in regards to ] and cancer, our article mentions that 91 of the people involved with the film had contracted cancer by 1984, three times the number you'd expect in a group that size (220 people). Yeah, they smoked, but that's still a lot of people. ] 00:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			::OK..sorry, you did read it...but I'll disagree. Answering someone with do it yourself basically goes entirely against the idea of having a ref desk. --]]] 18:37, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
			:::I disagree. One of the underlying purposes of the Ref Desk is to improve Misplaced Pages articles, and telling people how they can improve those articles themselves is an important part of that mission. ] (]) 18:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
	:How much energy does the world's nuclear arsenal have? 60 000 megatons? Assuming that all of this energy is converted into kinetic energy, and that all of the kinetic energy goes toward pushing the Moon, the Moon's velocity will change by 8 cm/s. Not exactly enough to "blow up the moon". --] 17:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
			::::That may be a secondary purpose, but the intial response was still basically a big middle finger to the original question and the primary purpose of the ref desk. --]]] 19:05, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
			== marbles and jews ==
	'''Re
	::How about expending a few carefully-placed megatons to give ] a moon-impact trajectory? Repeat as often as necessary. In a few hundred years, Earthlings could destroy the moon. Its a real ] kind of scenario. ] 04:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			The brief answer is, neither do I, or I wouldn't have asked the question. There does seem to be some connection, especially if you read Adam Reed's essay, to which I linked. ] (]) 03:58, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::'''Just reread my own nonsense. Two hundred years isn't enough time to find sufficient movable mass in the near solar system. Are there any ] objects floating about loose out there?] 04:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			:PS, Reed's a Hungarian Jew, the name is a synonym, as is ]'s ''nom de plume''. ] (]) 04:00, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
	::'''Total world megatonnage is probably a lot less than that. I ran some calculations awhile back and came up with around 2,500 MT for the entire US arsenal at the moment (you can see them at ]). If we say that Russia's arsenal is probably comparable to that, and figure that the rest of the world probably doesn't make up more than 1,000 MT at most, we're talking about 6,000 MT max — an order of magnitude less than 60,000 MT. --] 03:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)'''
			::Good luck getting an answer. BTW, ] is a synonym of what ? ] (]) 04:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
	'''CHRIST ALL MIGHTY PEOPLE, HAS ANY ONE THOUGHT ABOUT THE TIDES???'''
			== Thank you! ==
	Destroying the Moon (or even just slightly modifying its orbit) needs a LOT more energy we currently have. You can find some "useful" data on this page , . --] 16:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	== Biodegradable corrosion ==
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Of all the responders on my thread about learning C, you were the first, the most patient, and stuck with me until the end. I can't thank you enough! ] (]) 21:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
			|}
			:You're quite welcome. ] (]) 16:00, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
	Hi StuRat,
			== Editing Deferred Gratification ==
	Thanks for your reply. But I want a more specific definition for the type of corrosion. I am a Lecturer and this question has been asked in the university exam. I have to give a solution to the students and am not getting any reference.
			Glad you liked it. Fixing that numbering problem and adding pics now.
	I know microbiological corrosion which is caused directly or indirectly by bacteria, algae, moulds or fungi, singly or in combination.
			I'm part of a group of grad students assigned to this edit.
	] 03:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
			We'd welcome any help you can give. For simplicity, I'll be the face of the group.
			01:59, 31 October 2012 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Are you sure you have the term right ? Doing Google searches, I've found the phrases "biodegradable corrosion inhibitor" and "biodegradable corrosion protector". In both cases, I take this to mean that the biological agent prevents corrosion. In short, there doesn't seem to be any mention of "biodegradable corrosion". There is "biological corrosion", of course, if that's what you mean. ] 04:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
			== Changed indentation ==
	=="Not sure if it's all that famous"==
			Hi Stu. I was just wondering, was there a reason behind you de-indenting my comment on the Humanities Desk? ()
	I went ahead and edited ] substantially since you may have last viewed it. I'm also copying over my response to you from the reference desk.
			I'm not particularly bothered, just curious as to whether I indented wrongly in the first place. Thanks. - ] (]) 19:46, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
			:Your reply didn't seem to be a reply to me, which is what indenting it from mine means. Rather, it seemed to be a reply to the original Q, so I indented it from that Q.
	''I've never seen that pic before, so I doubt if it's all that famous. StuRat 20:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)''
			:In my case, I search through the Ref Desks by my screen name, and, if I see any comment indented from mine, I read it, since this means it's a reply to me. Having comments indented from mine which aren't replies to me therefore causes confusion. ] (]) 22:32, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
	:''Dude, it is all that famous, and I was unaware you were the authority on what was notable or not. ;) As far as fame is concerned, the Minnesota Historical Society recently featured said photo along with the Iwo Jima photograph, and Ruby shooting Oswald. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)''
	If you have any questions for me regarding the "validity" of this article, by all means, go ahead and send me a message, because you're one of the very few people who questioned the notability of the picture. ] ] 00:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)		::Fair enough. I guess I indented it as a reply to you since I was sort of continuing on your line of thought, but by the time I got to the end of my comment I'd wandered a bit off track, so it came out as a reply to the OP. Apologies if I confused you! - ] (]) 22:38, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
	:Why didn't you include the other people's responses, some of which said it was familiar, and some of which said it was not ? ] 03:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)		::::No prob. In a case like that, I'll split my comment into two, one of which replies to the one before, and is indented from it, and another which responds to the OP, and is indented from that. ] (]) 23:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
	::Because I figured if you cared enough, you would go back and read it yourself. I just wanted you to see my response first and foremost. ] ] 14:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)		:::Oh, just a thought: I've no problem at all with what you did, but if you'd left an edit summary I would have understood why you did it, and not had to ask. Not a problem, just an observation. - ] (]) 22:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
			::::Yea, I tend to get a bit lazy about those, and usually only add them for articles. (In a case like this, the edit summary might involve 100X as many characters changed as in the Q.) It would be nice if Misplaced Pages would have a list of my "top 10 edit summaries" and I could just pick from those.] (]) 23:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
	== On Vacation ==
			:::::<small>{{tps}} See ]. ] (]) 23:01, 14 November 2012 (UTC)</small>
			==Talkback==
	I'll be back on Monday or Tuesday. Until then, I may or may not have a chance to check in from the road. ] 15:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
			{{talkback|Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities|Privacy among Japanese celebrities|ts=07:56, 25 November 2012 (UTC)}}
			] <sup>]]]]</sup> 07:56, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
			== on israel and palestinians versus nazis ==
	== Happy Thanksgiving! ==
			i dont think nazi germany instantly lost all its allies due to its extermination program, so there may still be a way for israel to make a credible threat to do so and then follow through if no one will take them. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	{{AndonicO's version of Randfan's Happy Thanksgiving template}}
			:The world is a very different place now than it was then. First off, the allies of Nazi Germany were mostly dictators, like in ] in Spain, ] in Italy, and, early on, ] in the USSR. Second, Nazi Germany could bully it's smaller neighbors, so they either had to go along with Nazi Germany or be conquered by it. Israel wouldn't have such leverage, especially with no major allies. ] (]) 23:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks ! I'm thankful that turkeys don't jam stuffing up MY butt and cook ME for dinner. :-) ] 07:38, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
	:Yes, so am I. :-) Shouldn't Thanksgiving be renamed "Turkey massacre day"? ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 16:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC) <sup>sorry, I didn't see you had responded here.</sup>
			:Thirdly, Nazi Germany could have plausible deniability that they were engaging in genocide, by lying about it and using propaganda films made in the ]. In the age of the internet and satellites, no such lies would hold up. ] (]) 23:29, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
	== SCZenz ==
			:: You've painted a fair picture that I can believe of what would happen if Israel began a bona fide extermination program, though I'm not sure if threats would evoke the same reaction. Now let's talk about the other extreme. What do you think the consequences would be of Israel granting Palestine full statehood directly and through its allies? ] (]) 23:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
	I responded on my talk page and put a warning on on his talk page. ] 19:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::I don't see what diff it makes on a practical level. It changes things under international law, but Israel ignores that anyway. ] (]) 23:38, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
	==Reference Desk==
	Please see the discussion at ]. ]|] 18:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
			:::: Well, I support Israel strongly, and Israel considers this a very important issue (i.e. blocking this change). Why do they consider it such an important issue while you say on a practical level it doesn't make any difference at all? ] (]) 00:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
	== Please read this ==
			:What I think Israel should do, is annex a small bit of Palestinian land (and evict the residents) for every rocket or other attack against them. This would make ] far less popular among the Palestinians. ] (]) 23:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
	Please check out ], ] and ] and realize that Misplaced Pages guidelines are created through discussion, not voting. This has nothing to do with vandalism, which is explained in ]. (]) 10:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			:: Again, I don't mean to be blunt, but land is just dirt, whereas lives are meaningful. Why not execute just a certain number of specially targeted civilians published in advance, for every rocket? For the first rocket, these people die, for the next one, these people, and so on. Then it is truly Hamas that is killing these civilians, and not Israel. ] (]) 00:37, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
	:I'm not going to read all that while you're busy vandalizing the Ref Desk Talk Page. If you have a specific section you want me to read, put it here. ] 10:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::Besides the immorality of randomly killing people, that would create all the same problems I described before. And land is more important than lives, to the Palestinians, but not to the rest of the world. ] (]) 00:51, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
	*And need I really point out the irony that my comments, whereas I have not in fact deleted any of yours yet? (]) 10:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
	:*I tried to put yours back, but the way you delete ours at the same time you add yours and keep at it constantly makes it quite difficult. If you add your comments without deleting anybody else's comments I won't touch yours. ] 10:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)		:::: Thanks. Could you also respond to my response to "I don't see what diff it makes on a practical level. It changes things under international law, but Israel ignores that anyway." above? ] (]) 01:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
			:::::Nations get way too worked up about symbolic things like this (flag-burning is another), and I assume the same is true for Israel. ] (]) 01:58, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
	Read ]. ] 10:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
	*Before you start accusing people you should read the lead section of ]. Thank you for your time. (]) 10:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			== My accidental deletion of your comment on RD ==
	That says:
			My apologies, I was attempting to leave a smart reply (which I decided to delete) and touched you by mistake. I hope you have a happy holiday. ] (]) 07:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
	"'''Vandalism is any''' addition, '''deletion''', or change of content '''made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages'''."
			:No problem. Happy holidays to you, too. ] (]) 07:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
	I consider deleting the comments of others to be a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages. If we can't add comments to talk pages without having them deleted, then no discussions can take place, and no consesnsus can be reached. This will destroy the integrity of Misplaced Pages. ] 11:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Crazy things said by Mr.98 and pseudo-I/Ps from Australia: ==
	*Spot on. You see me suggesting a different way of doing things and carefully explaining why I believe this is so, and you conclude that this is a deliberate attempt to compromise the encyclopedia. I clearly state that I am encouraging further discussion and you mischaracterize that as an attempt to stifle discussion. This is why ] is an important policy. (]) 11:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			Mr.98 personally attacks me after apparently misunderstanding the meaning of "free":
	:*Deleting the comments of others never "encourages further discussion". ] 11:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			]
	***That is another mischaracterization. Polls are known to stifle discussion, polarize the issue, and cause strife. Hence, changing a poll to a discussion does indeed encourage further discussion. (]) 11:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			Ratbone claims A/C units never have slinger rings (but at least admits when he is proven wrong):
	:::*We had already discussed this before, in the sections noted in the intro to the poll. It was now time to see if there was enough interest to bother going any further. So far, it appears that there is, based on the 3 to 1 poll results. Of course, I'd like to see the opinions of others before actually making a change, as 3 people isn't exactly a consensus. Trying to read through pages of comments and side discussions to figure out what the consensus is would be damned near impossible, and everyone who tried would likely come to a different conclusion. A poll makes it simple to determine if there's a consensus. ] 12:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			]
	== more on RD ==
			Wickwack claims 100% humidity can be comfortable:
	Hi - I hope I didn't offend you with my latest comments on the talk thread. I get the impression you are sincerely trying to find a path to a solution and very much appreciate the effort you're putting into this. Like I say, I'm busy in real life at the moment so don't have (and will not soon have) much time to participate in this discussion. I suspect this whole thing has been quite upsetting for you - please don't give up. -- ] <small>(])</small> 16:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			]
	:Thanks ! ] 16:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			Wickwack claims "deprived" always means 100% deprived:
	== Please reconsider your approach to the reference desk ==
			]
	You seem to be using the RD as a chat board. This is not helpful to the project- please don't do that. A typical example is your helping someone come up with ideas for a school play - how is this encyclopedic in any way? If you want to chat, go find a forum. ] ] 19:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			Keit claims that power strips with LED indicator lights do not exist:
	:That was the answer that the question required. You might be interested in the proposed test "Strict Rules Ref Desk", where such things would not be allowed. You can even volunteer as an "enforcer" for that Desk, and go through and delete anything there you don't like. ] 02:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
			]
	::Maybe IRC is what you're looking for? That's meant for chatting, whereas Misplaced Pages is meant as an encyclopedia. ] ] 22:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			== ] ==
	:::What is the purpose of the RDs in your opinion?--] 22:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi. I hope you don't mind. I have as a result of your ] --<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">]&nbsp;(])</span> 16:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
	::::See ]. It's meant to be like a library reference desk, where people help you find the information you're looking for in the encyclopedia. Somewhere along the line it lost its way and turned into a chat room for the kiddies. ] ] 22:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::::Hmm so library staff dont talk amongst themselves?--] 22:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks, that's a good idea, it really is hard to read. ] (]) 20:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
			:: {{done-t}} --<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">]&nbsp;(])</span> 18:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::::The analogy only goes so far. I'm sure librarians talk in places that are appropriate for conversation- what I suspect they don't do is write notes to each other in the margins of the books. ] ] 22:34, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::Interesting. They started from scratch to create an animated GIF from a satellite map, rather than just changing the colors on the existing image. They also didn't indicate the location of Hobart. ] (]) 20:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Where is an analogous place then?--] 22:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::: Yups. But it was free! --<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">]&nbsp;(])</span> 20:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::Writing in the margins of books would be equivalent to writing on an article page, not at all the same as talking at the Ref Desk. If you went up to a reference librarian and asked them a question, say, what the saltiest lake in the world is, one might say "I think it's ], ]", then another might say "No, I think it's the ]", then they would look them both up to see which was right. This is exactly what we should allow here. ] 06:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::::There is that. :-) ] (]) 21:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Comment formatting ==
			== Ma'an News - RSN ==
	Hi StuRat. Could you please consider creating your own section, rather than interleaving your comments with mine? I'm worried that what you're doing will make it unclear who said what, especially if you reply to more points. Thanks, ] 05:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			You might be interested in this discussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Ma.27an_News <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 17:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
	:Answering point by point, right after the point is made, is far easier to follow. Also, responding after your entire post would make it necessary to repeat large portions of your post in my answers, making the discussion much longer than needed. Please add signatures after each of your points, and/or put something like "Where we stand, according to SCZenz" in the title, to make it clear. ] 05:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			== That's what SHE said: ==
	:This brings up a controversial subject: Talk page layout and protocol. 8-(--] 21:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			. --]''''']''''' 06:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Find out what users are admins ==
			:LOL. :-) ] (]) 06:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
	Not sure you'll notice, but I answered your question at ] about how to find out if a user is an admin. The answer is ] is definitive. ] is a manually maintained list. -- ] <small>(])</small> 18:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Your biography ==
	:Thanks. ] 06:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			If you could describe yourself in one sentence, then what would it be? What is your education level? What specific field do you specialize in? How wide and how deep do you specialize in your field and other fields? How often do you contribute to Misplaced Pages? Do you have a day job (or night job)? ] (]) 20:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Wheels ==
	Just wondering if you could keep an eye on a do gooder reverting my inputs on '''Wheels''' on <s>Science</s> whoops Humanities (what a strange place) RD . Thanks!--] 22:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
	:Please provide a link. ] 06:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)		:Why do you ask ? ] (]) 00:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
	== HRT ==		== Robocalls ==
			Hi StuRat. I happened to be reading this morning, and it brought to mind your questions about automatic screening of telemarketers. This 'Banana Phone' seems like it might be just the thing for you - take a look! - ] (]) 10:51, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	Also someone deleting legit Q on HRT. Can you keep an eye out 8-) ?--] 22:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks. That solution seems a bit overly complex, though. I'd be fine with manually entering numbers into the white list, for example. I think my elderly mother might have trouble entering the 4-digit code embedded in a sound clip, within 10 seconds, if she called from a new phone. It would be better for me if unrecognized numbers are only allowed to leave messages, and it plays out loud while they leave the message (on a land line), so I can pick up if I recognize the person. There should also be a black-list, which I manually enter, of numbers it hangs up on immediately. ] (]) 21:34, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Do you mean HRD ? ] 06:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			== A kitten for you ! ==
	:Why don't you kids go play someplace else? ] ] 22:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			]
	::]. ] ]--] 23:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks
			] (]) 02:27, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
	Friday, I'm amazed to find out you are an Admin, as you don't seem to know how to talk with people properly and don't seem to understand even the first concept of how the Ref Desk works (you talk like you're about 12). Your idea that anyone should feel free to delete anything they want for any reason shows this total ignorance. Please leave the Ref Desk discussion to more competent Users and Admins. ] 06:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			<br style="clear: both;"/>
			:Thanks. Is it for this contribution ? ] ? ] (]) 03:15, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
	:I guess we have a difference of opinion. To me, playing games and chatting at the RD is the childlike behavior here. I think I usually know how to talk to people, but I'll admit my patience wears thin when dealing with people whose goals here don't line up with the project's goals. I don't believe I've ever suggesting that anyone should feel free to delete anything for any reason- this obviously would be in conflict with the wiki process determining content. ] ] 15:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Your opinion needed ==
	::That's right, you're the one who wants to delete the Ref Desk entirely. ] 16:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi! You might want to weigh in with an opinion here: ] --] (]) 22:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::I asked the question once, I believe, of whether it should go away. You appear to be the one repeatedly bringing this up. My question was answered- yes, the RD is useful for some purposes. So now I'm trying to move forward in a useful way, by identifying and supporting the RD's useful goals, while removing the irrelevant timewasting aspects of it. If you wish to help with this task, that's great, I would appreciate it. If you wish to stand in the way, you may find we continue to disagree. ] ] 16:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			==You're right==
	::::Since we know your real goal is to remove the Ref Desk entirely, I suspect that every suggestion you make is designed to sabotage it to achieve that goal. ] 17:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			Thank you. Your comments calmed me down, fortunately war seems hard to take place. ] (]) 23:17, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 23:30, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::Hmm so you think you are a good judge of 'the RD's useful goals, and the irrelevant timewasting aspects of it' Nice to be so confident! How do you differentiate exactly? 8-)--] 00:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			:BTW, in the above sentence, I think you meant "unlikely to take place", not "hard". ] (]) 03:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Asking a question once has now convinced you of some evil ulterior motive on my part? I doubt you'll find that you can work well with me with such a bizarre attitude. I admit the "why don't you kids play somewhere else" was needless rude- I apologize. Can we move on now? If you want to discuss how to improve the project, we have some common ground. If you just want to flame me, you're in the wrong place. ] ] 17:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Thankyou ==
	::::::OK, but before you make "suggestions" which are total changes in how the Ref Desk works, you should read through the rest of the Ref Desk Talk page, where many of the things you've discussed have already been discussed and rejected, like not allowing any jokes in Misplaced Pages. Having a constant stream of Admins come in, with little Ref Desk background, and wanting to change everything, is very annoying. I'm not looking forward to the next dozen Admins who come in doing the same thing, with me having to explain everything all over again. ] 17:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			I got that idea of photon when I'm dreaming. So it was wrong. So can we study when sleaping? Thankyou for your explaination. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:26, 3 February 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	What do admins have to do with anything? Do you really just mean "experienced editors who are familiar with the goals of the project"? I gotta admit- this last response only convinces me more of the need for significant change at the RDs. In every case I can remember, when someone complains that people keep coming by, talking about policy, and wanting to change things, the essential problem is that someone's been misusing Misplaced Pages. In such cases, the people wanting to use Misplaced Pages as something other than an encyclopedia are in the wrong. This is similar to someone using Misplaced Pages as a personal diary or phone book- they might complain that people keep coming along screwing up their contributions. The essential issue, in that case, would of course be that Misplaced Pages is not meant to be a personal diary, or a phone book. Just because something exists on Misplaced Pages is not an endorsement of it- it's possible that activities contrary to the goals of the project have been going on for a long time at the RD, but this doesn't make it OK. I don't care so much about humor- humor is welcome here, on project or talk pages- but hopefully these are remarks relevant to the issue at hand and not just jokes for their own sake. No amount of "explaining" why you don't want a certain Misplaced Pages page to be in line with Misplaced Pages goals and policies will help. A consensus cannot override such core issues. ] ] 18:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. Allegedly, the idea for the structure of a ] came to the person who first described it, in a day-dream: ]. ] (]) 06:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
	:Right. You're yet another Admin who is going to ignore the carefully built consensus of all the Ref Desk regulars who have patiently worked out issues, instead planning to unilaterally decide what's best for the Ref Desk and what's best for Misplaced Pages. The many people who man the Ref Desk couldn't possible have valid insights, only an outsider who has never actually worked on the Ref Desk knows how to make it work properly. What exactly is the point in us having a talk page where we work out issues, if outsider Admins are going to come in and destroy everything we've worked to build ? If the problem is that you don't respect the opinions of anybody except other Admins, try talking with ]. He, at least, is a Ref Desk contributor, as well as an Admin, so has some basis for his opinions of the Ref Desk. ] 18:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			== re reference desk ==
	::Maybe I've missed something, but what's getting destroyed here? People are allowed to have different opinions on what is or isn't appropriate. I don't think we should be doing original research for RD but I see little value to me attempting to enforce this opinion. Blatant junk, on the other hand, I may try to do something about. It sounds to me like you're trying to ] your edits a bit too much- this isn't a good way to look at things, with this being a wiki and all. It may well be that the RD people are mostly a different set of people from the encyclopedia editors, and perhaps there's a different culture and a different set of expectations. But, like it or not, the RD is part of the project. FWIW, I have taken a few stabs at answering RD questions lately in an effort to help out (and understand the RD better). I've been accused of having an anti-admin bias before, but I think this is the first time it's been suggested I have a pro-admin bias. Such a bias would be harmful and I'll endeavor to make sure this isn't the case. ] ] 18:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			Many many thanks for your help!! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:::OK, maybe I've misjudged you based on your "Why don't you kids go play someplace else?" comment and suggestion to delete the entire Ref Desk. After that, when seeing your "let's assume anyone posting a RD question wants a useful answer", I assumed the worst, that you wanted to eliminate all humor, side comments, answers lacking references, etc. (in short, destroying the sense of community we've built here). Perhaps I'm wrong, and you just didn't read or understand the meaning of the "strict template". But you should be more careful when joining a discussion on a project which you are not familiar with, rather than just charging in "like a bull in a china shop". Think of it from our POV, if you had worked for months or years on a project, then I came in and suggested deleting the project, then told you to get lost, how would you feel about me ? ] 18:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 03:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::To the extent that the RD functions like a chat forum, this needs to change. If this means irritating a community of non-editors who ''enjoy'' using Misplaced Pages as a chat forum, I won't mourn their loss. The encyclopedia is our goal here, and editors who aren't doing work relevant to that goal belong at another project. I'm really struggling to understand where you're coming from here- if "let's assume anyone posting a RD question wants a useful answer" causes you to assume the worst, I can only only conclude that your goals here are vastly different from my own. If someone asks for information, my first assumption will be that they want the information they asked for. Why on earth would suggesting that answers be informative cause you to assume some nefarious goals on my part? ] ] 20:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			== ''As I Lay Dying'' ==
	:::::Well, you said that in response to the suggestion that we provide a template for those who ONLY want a serious answer, without jokes, opinions, side remarks, etc. Therefore, in that context, it means "we don't have to ask users if they want a serious answer only, and don't want any jokes, opinions, side remarks, etc., because we can assume that is what all users want...thus we should ban all jokes, opinions, and side remarks outright". If that's not what you meant, then what did you mean ? Perhaps you weren't following the discussion about the template ? ] 20:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hello. I do not really appreciate your comments at the ], implying that I am a child seeking help with homework. Some questions at the Help Desks are, indeed, bona fide. If you are "at" the Help Desk, I assume that you are there to "help" or to offer some insights into the bona fide questions of other editors ... and not to belittle the questions of others as if they were trivial, childish, and nothing more than a veiled adolescent disguise at cheating on homework. What exactly about my question leads you to your assumption that I am a child attempting to cheat on a homework assignment, as distinguished from a bona fide question, seeking information (i.e., indeed the ''very purpose'' of the Help Desk)? And, furthermore, even if that is your personal suspicion, why act on it in such a condescending and mocking (and very public) manner? Please advise. Please reply at my Talk Page. Thanks. ] (]) 13:52, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::::If you see me removing a joke, then it's a good assumption that I think jokes should sometimes be removed. Until that day, why make assumptions? Sorry if I was unclear (we could all benefit from improved communication skills) but I think it would help if you assumed I meant only what I said. I make enough mistakes in what I say as it is- I'd hate to have to spend time clearing up misconceptions about stuff someone thought I might someday say. ] ] 20:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			: StuRat, I am particularly surprised/dismayed/disappointed/hurt by your behavior. I have seen you on these Help Desks quite a bit. And, in fact, I am sure that you have helped me over the past many years, several times. This seems out of character for you. And, as such, it is particularly disappointing and hurtful. ] (])
	:::::::OK, apparently your comment was just unrelated to the section topic. ] 20:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:: Unless I am seeing things differently than you are, it was not StuRat who {{diff|Misplaced Pages%3AReference_desk%2FHumanities|537499070|537499003|posted the ''homework'' quip}}. StuRat, in fact, {{diff|Misplaced Pages%3AReference_desk%2FHumanities|537499770|537499560|quoted from our article}}: '']'' in, what seems to me, a helpful attempt to answer your question --<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">]&nbsp;(])</span> 15:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
	== XMAS colors ==
			:::Agreed, I tried to help as best I could. And I also added a joke, where the butt of the joke is the book itself, and not Joseph A. Spadaro. ] (]) 17:08, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::: StuRat, I made it explicit that I found this conduct out of character for you. Hence, making it "sting" even more. Perhaps your wording was of poor choice. But, here is my "take" on it, acknowledging that my "take" might indeed be inaccurate. The other editor (snidely) stated: "Because it makes a good homework question?". So, clearly, he was saying, "It is obvious to me that you are trying to do a homework question, and I have no intention of helping with that endeavor." Now, you, StuRat, piped in. You did ''not'' say something to the effect of "Well, hey, maybe this is indeed a legitimate non-homework question." I repeat, you did ''not'' say words to that effect. What you said, in fact, was: "At least he didn't ask us to explain Chapter 19 ...". So, my reading of your comment was as follows. Clearly, it piggy-backed on the other editor's (snide) comment. In other words, creating an allegiance in agreement with his comment; as opposed to an opposition against, or a break away from, or a disagreement with his comment. In other words, you were "joining in" on his comment and, furthermore, adding your own addendum to his little snide joke. Your addended comment began with: "well, at least he didn't do such-and-such" (i.e., ask about Chapter 19). That prefatory remark, basically says, "OK, I agree that he is attempting to get homework done, but at least he didn't go one step further ... and at least he really didn't debase himself by asking about Chapter 19" (or some variation thereof). That was (and still is) my "take". And, as I said, my "take" could be wrong. So, I am open to an explanation of the intent behind your words and, also, how you expected to manifest that intent with the words you actually used (and the context in which you used them). Thanks! ] (]) 17:41, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::::You seem to be neglecting my previous answer, where I tried to answer your Q, as best I could, which I wouldn't do if I thought it was a homework Q. My joke was not an endorsement of this being a homework Q, it just happened to follow that statement. I placed it there since it was another aside, not an actual answer, and it's nice to keep asides together, and actual answers together. ] (]) 17:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::::: Thanks. I do see what you are saying. Thank you. And can you understand my "take" on things (as described above), from my perspective? And how a reasonable person might easily have the same "take", albeit an erroneous take, as I did? Also, as an aside, if I read the book and linked to the article, is not it a "safe bet" that I had already read that one-sentence (unsatisfactory) blurb within the article (explaining the fire) ... and I was simply seeking "more" than that superficial one-sentence explanation? Thanks. ] (]) 17:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::::::No, we get lots of people who either don't read the article they link to or miss the relevant bit. Some of our articles are huge and overly complex, so I can't really blame them. You should tell us up front that you found the description in the linked article unsatisfactory, if that is the case. (Also, some well-meaning but misguided editor might have added links to a Q, which makes it look like you placed the links there yourself.) ] (]) 18:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::::::: StuRat, you answered my second question, but not my first. Please advise. Thanks. ] (]) 21:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::::::::Well, I can see how you could take offense, if you jump to conclusions and take everything in a negative light. I hope to persuade you not to do that in the future. Note that it's often difficult to discern tone on the internet, due to the absence of nonverbal cues. This is a good reason to assume good faith (more on this below). ] (]) 03:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Also, you do have to admit that your Q looks a lot like a homework Q. So, if you don't want it to be mistaken for one, you really should explain more. I would have added "I am a college professor, I just finished the book, and I would like more insight on that event in the novel" up front, to prevent misunderstandings like this. Don't rely on us remembering you from previous Q's, as new people are always around, answering Q's, too. So, to summarize, try to give us more info, and be a bit more patient with us, please. ] (]) 18:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			:: StuRat volunteers at the help- and reference-desks and did not deserve your tirade. Many help desk volunteers make facetious irrelevancies, or should that be irreverent asides. We do so by enclosing such comments in <code><nowiki><small></nowiki></code> tags to clearly mark them as off-topic. I do so myself. Recent examples include {{diff|Misplaced Pages%3AReference_desk%2FScience|537568355|537567415 |here}} and{{diff|Misplaced Pages%3AReference_desk%2FScience|537568355|537567415|here}}. I echo StuRat's request for a clearer question in future. It is quite hard to divine answers from little information at those help- and reference-desks. Now let's all get] --<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">]&nbsp;(])</span> 18:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			::: Tirade? Really? Senra, do you know the meaning of the word "tirade"? Please review all of my posts. They were quite respectful. StuRat, did you think my messages to you were a "tirade"? '''''I'd like you honest answer on that.''''' Please advise. Furthermore, Misplaced Pages has a rule/policy of "assuming good faith". Which means, "let's assume that this question on the Help Desk is bona fide and in good faith and not a junior high school kid cheating on his homework". Your suggestion cuts both ways. You both indicate that I should offer more info, to try to pre-empt the assumption that it's a homework question. (I thought that "assuming good faith" already covered that.) I could just as easily shift the burden back on you and say ... rather than assume it's homework, why not ask a clarifying question first ... such as "this sounds like a homework question. Before I reply, please let me know if it is or not." Thanks. ] (]) 21:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
			::::I wouldn't say a "tirade", but it did rather seem to be a bit of an over-reaction. As I said previously, I didn't actually think it was a HW Q, but could see how others might. I might very well have asked, if I thought it was. However, each cycle of posing a follow-up Q (and waiting for a response and then responding to that) slows things down, moving your Q up the page, beyond where people are likely to read it and respond, and soon it gets archived. So, you really do yourself a favor by giving us all the info you can up front. As for assuming good faith, that applies to you, too. Don't assume we "belittle the questions of others as if they were trivial, childish, and nothing more than a veiled adolescent disguise at cheating on homework" nor that we are being "condescending and mocking". The only thing I mocked was the book, itself. ] (]) 03:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
			:This situation somewhat reminds me of the common reply when anyone with computer problems calls the IT department: "Have you tried a reboot, yet ?". Half the callers find the question insulting, since they've obviously tried that, and half the people say no, they didn't try that. So, should the IT department stop asking the Q, to avoid offense, even though asking it can solve many problems ? ] (]) 03:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
			== concern/apology ==
			I am sorry, I should have come to you about this but all I saw was the legal problem with the potentially libellous remarks about a business. I do think you should remove the direct reference yourself, it is problematic and not necessary for your argument. But I have to apologize for not coming to directly, I was only focused on that and didn't even pay attention to the signature. ] (]) 20:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Thanks, although the name shouldn't matter. I don't see anything libelous about the statement. Many businesses sell disposable items, they are just the first motel to do so, that I'm aware of. At any rate, they can't sue Misplaced Pages for what one person posts here. ] (]) 22:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
			== Some baklava for you! ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Heres a treat for all your good answers on the reference desk. ] (]) 19:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks. Have any ] ? I got honey all over myself. :-) ] (]) 19:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
			== That South African guy ==
			Letting you know about this of mine in good faith. I neither think your comment is necessarily wrong nor that you made it in bad faith, but I do think it is over the line so far as our guidelines. Figured it's better to go to BLP than to act myself. ] (]) 04:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
			== Flashman ==
			Done. The limited support is only because I don't consider myself sufficiently familiar with FL criteria in practice. Looks like it is doing pretty well!--] (]) 16:20, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Did you post this to the wrong page ? I have no idea what you're talking about. ] (]) 16:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
			==I'm a big fan==
			very BIG ! really appreciate your work. — <small><span style="background-color:#645D56;">]</span></small> </sup>]] 16:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! (Presumably this is for my response here: ].) ] (]) 16:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			::Not particularly for that response. I occasionally read RD for its interesting content, and you are all over it. — <small><span style="background-color:#645D56;">]</span></small> </sup>]] 08:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
			== ] ==
			An interesting article on given your prior question. ] (]) 19:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Thanks. Still looking for some underlying factor that caused the "coincidence" of the two, though. ] (]) 21:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			== IP trolling ==
			I took the liberty of removing this personal-attack-bait from the misc. ref. desk. Since he took your name in vain, I thought you might like to know about it. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 22:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			:Thanks, but I already saw your deletion and responding on his talk page. ] (]) 23:03, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			::Good deal. I'll add some comments. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 23:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			:::the two of you know had you left this to me to hat there'd've been much wittier comments. ] (]) 23:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
			::::Fer sher. You should go to the IP's talk page and point that out. Unless he's afraid of Greeks bearing jests. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 01:18, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
			==Old discussion ==
			Hi Stu, I saw that you left a comment after me on the thread about web crawling/scraping. Since it is a bit old, I thought I'd follow up here:
			Basically, CiteSeer is only interested in academic publications. What I had done was put a pdf file in the public directory of www.department.university.edu/~username/ It was an orphan, in the sense that nothing linked to it, but it would have been visible to a ls or dir command. I think CiteSeer just downloaded every pdf in every public folder of every department.university.edu page it could find, and then with some minimal processing decided that it was a "paper" that they should index (This is generally effective, as many professors post their publications in this manner). Does that make sense? I've wondered about it a bit over the years. It was actually quite embarrassing, they basically copied and hosted my content without my consent, and though it was later published, the version they included all sorts of annotations and discussion not meant for the public! ] (]) 17:34, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
			:Yes, that makes sense. In addition to embarrassment, you could also find somebody plagiarizes your paper and publishes it before you. I suppose the lesson is that we should never post anything on the web we don't want to be seen by all. Just keep it on your local PC directory until it's ready to publish.
			:This reminds me of an issue I had with the house I bought. The price I paid was always considered a "public record". However, in the old days, this meant going down to the Register of Deeds and paging through tomes to find it. Not anymore. Now it's online and anyone who types my name into Google can find out exactly what I paid for my house in a second. That's just a tad too "public", in my opinion. ] (]) 17:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
			== Austerity ==
			My clumsiness with the undo button has left your comment looking out of place, but I think with a minor tweak to your opening words, it'd be a useful contribution to the thread. Hope you don't mind, but I really wanted to undo my edit - see the edit summary I left when I ''thought'' I was undoing it earlier! --] (]) 21:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
			:OK, thanks, I've updated my opening words. In the future, though, you might want to use <s>strikeout</s>, once people have responded, to remove your comments. ] (]) 21:46, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
			== Thanks ==
			Thanks for all your help with the min/max lagrangian problem. ] (]) 22:14, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
			:You're quite welcome ! ] (]) 03:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
			== :)))) ==
			{| style="width:95%; height:125px; border:1px solid PeachPuff; margin:0px auto 0px auto; background-color:PapayaWhip; text-align:left;"
			|-
			| style="width:125px; background-color:PeachPuff; &nbsp;" | ]
			| style="padding-left:10px;"|Hello StuRat, Eduemoni has given you a shining smiling star! You see, these things promote ] and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the ] whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or someone putting up with some stick at this time. Enjoy! <b style="background:#FEE;padding:5px;font-size:10px">]]</b> 15:57, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
			|-
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 16:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
			== You deserve a barnstar ==
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]|]}}
	{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
	|rowspan="2" |		|rowspan="2" |
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For . Thanks for the laugh.&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 03:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |When asked why red and green are Christmas colors, you said:"I did have another theory about why red and green are the XMAS colors, but I think it's probably only my family who celebrates XMAS by putting frogs in blenders." I keep wondering how many of these you are going to get... | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 16:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
	|}		|}
	Thanks ! ] 16:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)		:You're welcome ! ] (]) 03:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
			== Reversion at RD:S ==
	You're welcome. But thank yourself too; you earned it, and made me laugh very hard in the process. :-) | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 17:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			Stu,
	:Thanks again, my goal in life is to make everyone wet their pants. (I secretly own the company that makes ].) ] 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			I reverted your edit to my hat at the evaporation/sublimation thread. I deliberately chose to hat after both you and Ratbone had your say on the terminology, and before either of you devolved into outright personal attacks. Your silently moving that (and by extention, attributing it to me, as I have the only signed metacommentary there) to get the last word in is unacceptable. &mdash; ] 15:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
	::Well then, get back into life! ;-) | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Note: if you want to pursue another response on that thread, I see no reason why a civil referenced discussion between you and Ratbone about what you each mean by the terms you're using can't continue outside of (and above, for that matter) the hat. &mdash; ] 15:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
	:::Is "get back into life" their slogan ? I thought it was "good to the last drop". :-) ] 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)		::And you leaving his comment saying that I'm wrong and don't check my facts, while hiding my response, is not acceptable. I'll just hat the whole thing. ] (]) 15:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
			::If he had politely said "I disagree", then I'd have let it stand. ] (]) 15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
	::::Well that too. :-) | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 19:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::If you prefer that the whole thing be hidden, that's OK with me. &mdash; ] 15:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
	:Now if it didnt seem like sycophancy or loyalty or something, I would award StuRat with something! Im not sure what yet! Lets wait and see what comes to mind.--] 00:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Follow-up on your RD question - old library books ==
	::Well, ''you'' give him a barnstar; it wouldn't look good if I gave him two in a row. | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 00:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi StuRat,
	:::My respect for StuRat is worth more than a truckload of Barnstars!--] 01:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			I don't want to incite any kind of controversy by responding in a hatted discussion, but to answer your question: yes, being an ex-library copy typically decreases the value of a book, partly because of skittishness on the part of collectors for exactly the sort of reasons your question raised (is it a legitimate library discard or was it stolen) and partly because they've usually been marked up and/or heavily used. So, without giving you legal advice, which I well know ''you'' know not to ask for on the RD </rolleyes>, your book might not be worth as much as you hope. But then again, in a free market world, things are worth what someone wants to pay for them. Best of luck. <font face="Times new Roman">] ] </font> 13:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::I concur; I won't say "more than a shipload" because it would seem childish.
			:Thanks. ] (]) 19:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::What we need is an award for StuRat putting up with gigatons of irrelevant bullshit presented as coherent and sensible argument--] 01:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::What, you mean they aren't coherent and sensible arguments? ;-) | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 01:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			== ] of ] ==
	==E-mail==
			]
			The article ] has been ]&#32; because of the following concern:
	Email
			:'''A search for references failed to find significant coverage in ] to comply with ] requirements. This included web searches for news coverage, books, and journals, which can be seen from the following links: <br /><span class="plainlinks"></span> – <span class="plainlinks">, , </span><br /> Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient ].'''
	Should be open now.
	--] 16:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			While all constructive contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be ].
	:Yours, or StuRat's? | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 16:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your ] or on ].
	::Both. ] 16:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the ], but other ]es exist. In particular, the ] process can result in deletion without discussion, and ] allows discussion to reach ] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> '''<span style="color:#880000;">—♦♦ </span>]]''' 12:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::Ok, but I don't understand what that has to do with the previous discussion, the one about your genius and absolute brilliance. ;-) | ] <small><sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font> | <font face="Times New Roman" color="Tan">]</font></sup></small> 17:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			== StuRat rules ==
	::::Quite right, it needs a new section, which I've just added. ] 17:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
			There's something comforting about seeing your presence every time I've been on the reference desk since I was in high school and now I'm about to graduate college. All throughout my crucial formative years your knowledge has been a beacon, or something like that. All I'm saying is that you should either write a book or they should make a documentary about you. ] (]) 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
	== Users against heavy-handed Ref Desk removals and blocks ==
			:Thanks, you've just put me in 7th heaven. :) ] (]) 18:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
	From: ]:
			== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
	*]:
			<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].
	*<s>]</s>:
	*]:
	*]:
	*]
	*]:
	*]:
	*]:
	*]
	*]
	*]
	*]
	*]:
	*]:
			The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
	This is starting to be a rather substantial list. (If I've misrepresented any person's views, I apologize, this is the best I could do by trying to interpret pages and pages of comments.) ] 10:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice -->
	==My rules for deletions==
			== ANI discussion on Wickwack ==
	Unnecessary escalation is both rude and nonproductive. The proper procedure should be followed:
			I've reported Wickwack to ANI to see if we can get some kind of enforcement, and mentioned his history of abuses towards you. So just dropping this note to let you know about this. --] (]) 03:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
	:1) First, mention the post on the author's talk page, and politely list your objection, and request that they remove it.
			:OK, thanks. Do you have a link for me ? ] (]) 03:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
	:2) If they refuse, and if the comment is so outrageous as to warrant further action, then bring it up here, again politely.
			::http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Enforcement_needed_of_topic_ban_of_IP_editor_Wickwack] --] (]) 04:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
	:3) If a consensus is reached here to remove it, then the author can again be given the opportunity to remove the comment. At this, point, however, once community consensus exists that it should be removed, other members of the community may delete the comment, if the author refuses.
			:::Thanks again. ] (]) 04:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
	:4) If, and only if, the author replaces the comment three times, should an Admin be summoned, via a 3RR violation complaint.
			== Medical advice collapsed, see WT:RD ==
	There are also grounds for a "speedy deletion" by anyone, such as death threats, etc., but only the most severe cases warrant such actions. And, even in these cases, the author should still be notified of the deletion (on their talk page) and the reason (policy violations) given.
			I collapsed a thread to which you had responded, and removed your answer, as it was potentially dangerous to the target audience (patients with multiple allergies). See http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Collapsing_request_for_medical_advice. --]<sup>]</sup> 21:12, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
	Perhaps we should also discuss the reasons to do things according to the above procedure:
			== Muslims and Arabs' hatred of Jews ==
	:a) To be polite. Politeness goes a long way.
			In your response to this query on the ], I don't understand your distinction of "demotion of Palestinians outside Israel" when there is overwhelming, longstanding, and widespread evidence of Palestinian Arabs ''within'' Israel being treated as 2nd class citizens, quite literally, and the discriminatory practices by the Israeli government and military against Palestinian Arabs in the territories of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. Outside Israel they're refugees, sometimes immigrants. These issues raise an awful lot of heat; smoke only obfuscates. Kindly stay focused when you offer answers. ''-- ] (]) 20:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)''
	:b) To avoid "revert wars". (If a comment is removed without consensus having been reached to do so, then the author is entirely justified to disagree with the opinion of the person who removed it and restore the comment.)
			:By "outside of Israel" I include the West Bank and Gaza strip, where Palestinians are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections, despite elected Israeli politicians having defacto control of their homes. Of course, they are also treated as second class citizens when refugees in many Arab nations, and I didn't want to forget about that, either. ] (]) 23:32, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
	:c) To avoid a POV bias in the removals. For example, a politically liberal editor might tend to delete any slightly off topic politically conservative comments, and vice-versa, even though they would leave such comments in if they were more in line with their political ideology. This could escalate to having all liberal statements removed by conservatives, and vice-versa, even if entirely on-topic.
			Why do people call them Muslim? Are you sure we aren't calling them something rude and are just ignorant english speakers who don't know any better calling them a name they think means middle easterner in English? That's what I wonder. Who decided to call them such, we have the term middle easterner and the term Islamists, so what is Muslim? Their race or what?
	:d) To avoid personal vendettas in the removals. That is "you removed my post, so I'll remove yours". If a consensus is required for such removals, this type of petty behavior is unlikely.
			(] (]) 17:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC))
			:I believe Muslim is the correct word for a believer in Islam. It's not a race, it's a religion. "Islamists" seems to mean conservative Muslims (insisting women cover their faces, etc.). ] (]) 19:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
	] 17:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			==A prize for you==
	== Please put down the torches and pitchforks ==
			Hi there, StuRat.
			We've been refdesk colleagues for many years now. We've certainly had major differences of opinion on certain matters and have pitted our arguments strongly against each other. But it occurs to me that you have always been polite and have never resorted to any form of personal attack or nastiness. For that, I thank you, and furthermore:
	I've lifted the block of Light current and paroled him, for reasons described here: ] ().
	Friday has agreed to this approach, and I think is being quite reasonable.
			{| style="border: 4px solid darkblue; background-color: #F0DC82;"
	For your part, I would ask that you refrain from making further attacks on his integrity and judgement . While Friday (apparently) disagrees with both you and me about the utility of the Ref Desk, that doesn't disqualify him from commenting on its activities. Nor does it bar him from acting in what he believes are Misplaced Pages's best interests&mdash;as in cases where editors may be detracting from the Ref Desk's functioning by telling off-colour jokes or engaging in newbie-biting.
			|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; horizontal-align: center; height: 1.1em;" | '''The PENISS Prize'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | On behalf of the '''''People Encouraging Niceness/Eschewing Nastinesss in Society Society''''', I hereby award you the '''PENISS Prize'''. <br><br> The prize is the highest (and sole) honour in the gift of the Society and is awarded irregularly, on merit. It entitles the awardee to the postnominal letters P.E.N.I.S.S. (in appropriate contexts, of course). <br> <br>It confers automatic membership of the Society, and it thus bestows the power to award the prize to others, and they to others, in perpetuity. .<br><br> Remember, the more PENISSes in the world, the better for all of us. What a nice thought. Please continue your good work!
			|}
			<small>To present this award to others, simply type '''<nowiki>{{subst:User:JackofOz/PENISS}}</nowiki>''' on their talk page, and then sign and date your post.</small>
	I'm a bit concerned at the section on your talk page right above this one, and I hope that you're not trying to create an advocacy group to harrass admins (or other editors) who are trying to do their best to do a fairly thankless job. I hope that you (and everyone else involved here) will attempt to adhere to the highest standards of civility and courtesy. ](]) 15:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			Cheers and happy editing. -- ] </sup></span>]] 00:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
	:I was concerned because there appears to be a steady influx of progressively more unreasonable Admins into the Ref Desk. The first, ], was somewhat reasonable, the next, ], was a bit less reasonable, but at least pretended to discuss things. Now, we have ], who, rather than discussing things civilly, seems to resort to insults, suggests removing the Ref Desk entirely, and then imposes a lengthy block on a user for the most minor of offenses. Thus, I feel the need to keep track of those Editors and Admins (yourself included), who are at least willing to discuss things rationally. Rather than being an advocacy group to harass Admins, this is an advocacy group to prevent Admins, like Friday, from harassing Editors. I still feel that ] should move on to "policing" other areas, as his presence at the Ref Desk causes disruption, rather then eliminating it. ] 16:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks, and also ewww. :-) ] (]) 09:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
	<small>(added after edit conflict with above, though I think my remarks definitely apply)</small>
	...That's what I get for not reading closely, I guess. I am surprised to notice that you added me to your 'posse' up above. I'm afraid that I'm in favour of removing comments from the Ref Desk that are very off-topic or off-colour; I'm also in favour of blocking editors who repeatedly reject advice to remedy that type of behaviour. Call me heavy-handed if you will&mdash;it's up to you. Frankly, I think that 'heavy-handed' is an unnecessarily loaded term that poorly reflects what is most likely a continuum of opinions, and that your choice of terminology is more likely to divide and polarize opinion rather than result in a productive dialog and resolution of the problems we've been seeing. I do hope that you will reconsider your approach.
			== I don't know if you celebrate Halloween but... Happy Halloween! ==
	As an aside, I will also note that Friday has reevaluated his position on the utility of the Ref Desk and has stated his intention to start helping out answering questions there. I think that the two of you have gotten off to an unnecessarily rough start and I hope that you two can set your differences aside. ](]) 16:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
	:The word "heavy-handed" is there intentionally. I do not object to all Ref Desk removals and even blocks, but believe they should be used rarely, and only after the proper courtesies are followed: . Since I believe you also oppose heavy-handed Ref Desk removals and blocks, I included you in the list. ] 16:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			{| style="width:100%; height:125px; border: solid black; background-color:#ffcf72; text-align:left; padding:8px;"
			|-
			| rowspan=2 style="width:125px;" | ]
			| Hello StuRat, Miss Bono has given you an lovely bat, to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote ] and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a lovely bat! Enjoy!
			|-
			| style="font-size:8pt;" | Spread the goodness of a lovely bat by adding <nowiki>{{</nowiki>]:]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> to their talk page with a friendly message.
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 17:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
	::May I ask... Do you really think it's better, if I think something needs to be removed no matter what, for me to request its removal first (and then delete it if the user doesn't agree)? Is it a courtesy or duplicity? That's an honest question, something I've been wondering about. -- ] 17:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Thanx! ==
	:::I think it's duplicity. However, you are missing the deeper issue. The whole reason to discuss it with the user first is to have an honest conversation with them. We have had many examples where an excessively negative interpretation of something (usually the OP's question) turned out not to be the case at all, like the question taken to mean "which races are superior" when it was really asking "which races were considered to be superior according to 19th century thinking". Thus, you need to be open to an honest discussion. If you "talk" to someone, already having made up your mind to ignore everything they say, then that is indeed duplicity. ] 17:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			Replied to your answer in http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Why_blind_army_ants_do_not_hunt_at_night.3F ] (]) 06:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
	== Howdy ==
			== Thanks ==
	(This is in response to your AN/I post but it seems more on-topic to reply here.) I just wanted to let you know something- I'm very, very against treating admins as a seperate class of people from editors. I've probably said this many many times in various places, but of course I can't expect you to magically know this. I've gotten flak from other admins before for criticizing admin actions that I've disagreed with. I'm often the guy that argues for leniency when people get blocked. I've written a few rambling essays on admin abuse and related topics. One that seems relevant is ] if you care to have a look.
			Hi Stu,
	I know that my "there is consensus among admins" probably gave the opposite impression, but the simple fact is they're the only ones with the technical ability to change the block. I like to try to drive home the idea that "we're all just editors", but this isn't always doable when dealing with software functions that not all editors have. I think we got off on the wrong foot and I'll admit this sure looks like it was my doing. I hope that my ill-tempered remark has not permanently convinced you that I'm a jerk, fool, or anti-reference desk crusader. TenOfAllTrades has jumped in to help out with Light current, and I think this is for the best. Anyway, this may all seem like disingenuous bullshit to you, but I really hope it doesn't. ] ] 16:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			"That's more phallusy than fallacy". I just wanted to say thank you for brightening my working day. LOL is overused to the point it simply means "I understand you are being lighthearted", but that was a genuine, old-fashioned LOL moment for me. ] (]) 13:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
	:OK, but I don't understand how the Admins being the only ones with the technical ability to add or remove blocks matters when building a consensus to add or remove a block. If, as you claim, you respect the opinions of all Misplaced Pages editors equally, then I would expect you to say "Apparently, the total consensus of all users, including both Admins and Editors, is against this block, at least in it's current length. Therefore, since I respect the opinion of all Misplaced Pages contributors equally, I will now remove the block, and apologize for acting in this manner without having first obtained a consensus." ] 16:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome ! ] (]) 18:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
	::Well, I started soliciting input from others well before the block. The problem with blocking is, many people will say "He's my friend! the block is unfair!" with no other reasons. Many editors have a solid understanding of the goals and policies of the project. If people who I've seen around before and I feel have solid judgment are saying one thing, and people whose judgment I ''don't'' have confidence in are saying another thing, I give more weight to those I feel have better judgment. This has nothing to do with being an admin or not. I realize this sound elitist, but I think if you think it through you'll see that there's really no other way to go through life. If someone cried "Block him! He's a jerk!" I would give little weight to that opinion too. There world is full of reasonable and unreasonable statements, and there's no getting around the need for human judgment to tell which are which. ] ] 16:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
			<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].
			The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
	:::That simply isn't a logical way to proceed. A person will naturally consider anyone who disagrees with them to have poor judgment. So, by saying you only respect the opinions of those "with good judgment", you are really saying you only respect the opinions of those who agree with you. ] 16:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::That's something we all need to watch out for, isn't it? But what's the alternative, agreeing with people who ''disagree'' with you? This would lead to an endless flip-flopping of opinion. FWIW, well-reasoned arguments sometimes do get me to change my mind. I've already changed my mind on the RD- my snap judgment about itwas in response to the ''worst'' parts of it. The solution is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater- the solution is to improve it, as people correctly pointed out. Anyway, I'll stop rambling. The point I apparently failed to make is: I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot- I'm taking the blame for that one. I hope we can move on and work together in a useful way. ] ] 17:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> ]] 01:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
	:::::We all need to watch out for it, yes, but, in the hands of Admins, assigning different significance to the opinions of different users can lead to far more serious consequences. Thus, Admins need to work even harder to be unbiased. And, if they can't be unbiased, then they should become a normal Editor again, and leave the Admin duties to those who can be unbiased. ] 17:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Don't shoot. I'm only the piano-playing alien. ==
	:::::Also, the alternative isn't "agreeing with those who disagree with you" it's "respecting the opinions of those who disagree with you". ] 17:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
	----
	::::StuRat, I really don't think that you're being fair here. Friday seems to be reasonable guy willing to be swayed by reasonable discussion and reasoned argument. To take the most recent available example, I offer his rational, polite, and agreeable tone when I lifted the Light current block.
	::::All of us in this discussion have been on Misplaced Pages long enough to get to know a lot of other editors, to see how they work, to see how they argue, to see how they behave. Through that experience, we are able to evaluate the judgement of other editors; if we are honest enough with ourselves, that evaluation will be based on factors beyond ''Joe Schmoe always agrees with me, so he must have good judgement''. I think it's rather unfair &ndash; not to mention a bit insulting &ndash; to suggest that Friday only considers those who happen to agree with him on this particular issue to be people of good judgement. I hope that you're not trying to pick a fight with Friday, as you're both generally helpful, productive, reasonable people. ](]) 17:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			I hate when my response gets archived. "Shiny circular object approaching bearing an unknown message. Sound familiar?" ] (]) 09:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Do you have any evidence that ] can be swayed by anyone on the Ref Desk who disagrees with him, and is not an Admin ? ] 17:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::I give up. He's trying to be reasonable, I hope that you'll do the same. ](]) 18:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)		:Yes, thanks for the response. I was thinking how a CD could be used as a ]. ] (]) 09:25, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
			::Neither the commentary nor the documentary ''Making the Earth Stand Still'' talk about the ramp. However, stills of the blueprints for the saucer show:
	:::::::If he's trying to be reasonable, then why did he undo a permanent block on a deletionist sockpuppet troll, which just happens to support his position: ? ] 18:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			::*a little trolley on wheels used to extend the ramp
	:::::::::<small>By their fruits shall ye know them</small>--] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			::*notations on three of the blueprints (sometimes a bit hard to decipher):
			:::*"NOTE: POINT UP & REPAIR ALL JOINTS TO MAKE INVISIBLE ?? WITH TAPE"
			:::*"WING TIP SEC. HINGES TO ALLOW FOR UNLOADING RAMP TO ROLL OUT / SEE DETAIL / PLEASE FIT ON ALL RAMP JOINTS / PROVIDE PAINTED MASKING TAPE FOR ??"
			:::*"SLOPE ? WING TIP TO BE CON? WITH SMOOTH PLASTER" ] (]) 20:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
			:::::Thanks. I'm amazed they got such smooth movement from a trolley. I'd have expected the tell-tale jerks as it's wheels hit grains of sand, etc. They must have gone over it's path with a magnifying glass to remove every grain. ] (]) 20:42, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
	== A modest proposal ==
			== Timekeeping ==
	Hi StuRat - thanks for keeping the conversation alive on the RD - I think I'm going to call it a day, and I think I'm going to leave things as is. I've written all there is which needed to be said I think, and it's time for me to move on. There's a lot of good nuggets there, so hopefully some Wikipedians will pick up on what I've tried to get at. In the meantime, I cannot guarantee that I will be around the RD for a sustained period, but do keep an eye out for my edits there - I have a feeling that some normalcy can come back to the project soon. Cheers, ] 20:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
			Luckily my calendar tells me it's time to wish you the season's greeting and a happy and healthy New Year. ] (]) 14:08, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for your help. I am afraid that ]'s tendency to do things in a unilateral way will return, however, without another Admin prodding him toward building a consensus with the rest of us. May I call on you if he drifts back in that direction ? ] 20:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
	::I'm always around. :-) --] 20:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)		:Thanks ! And a generic Season's Greetings to you too (does that include ] ?). :-) ] (]) 14:22, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
			:: Oh yes! especially Festivus. ] (]) 08:25, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
	== Ref Desk ==
			== StuRat, you are so kind!!! ==
	Hi. I don't intuitively understand SCZenz's wikilawyering and I really can't be bothered traipsing through the articles to get my head round it. IMO the Ref Desks have worked pretty darned well since I came here and if LC cools it a little, they'll be just about perfect. --] 09:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			I really appreciate your comment as far as other individuals in Reference Section. One of the problems for me now is that I work full time in a responsible position although I can "steal" a few minutes when I am not busy to post a question or two. So, I will have to proceed slower than might be expected. Sometimes I come home and can only eat and go to sleep. The project I try to launder in Reference Desk is totally unrelated to what i am doing now at work (I am an MD) but related to what I was doing years ago and had to revive now since I got a patent for it. It is a bit difficult to juggle everything but I am sure I will eventually manage. You have helped me a lot already and I immensely appreciate it. I did a lot of software development until about 3-4 years ago and hope now it will gradually come back. Another thing the software business is developing so fast, there is so much new stuff already, it is amazing. Thank you very much but I would decline the offer to escape the Reference Desk. I can stand for myself if necessary. --] (]) 21:12, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
	:I am cool man! 8-)--] 09:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			HAPPY NEW YEAR !!! --] (]) 21:22, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
	:I agree that quoting pages of general Misplaced Pages policy is not constructive, as many don't apply to the Ref Desk, and there are policies that will allow you to do anything you want, like the infamous "ignore all the rules" page, for example. Instead, we need to build consensus, document that consensus in a specific Ref Desk Policy Page, and follow that. With any luck, our Ref Desk Policy Page will not be as confusing and contradictory as the general Misplaced Pages policy pages are. ] 09:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Answering one of your questions. ==
	::They may appear contradictory because, at the end of the day, one just has to ]. For example, ] says to ignore rules (judiciously) if it's needed to ''improve'' the ''encyclopedia''; intent and effect are both critical. -- ] 17:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			"How did you go from computer programming to being a doctor?" - Well, it has actually been the other way around. At some points in my career I had enough time to pursue various hobbies and computers were one of them. I was in solo private practice for a long time and tried to write my own software. Now the situation has changed. I work for a state and I have to put in about 9 hours every day. It is a very rewarding job actually but another thing happened. I had a project which I started a long while ago and about 18 months ago on a spur of the moment I applied for a patent for the idea. I first filed myself and got rejected with a suggestion which implied that the reception by USPTO was good but my presentation was flawed. In no uncertan terms they recommended me to hire a patent attorney. Fortunately I got a very good one. I was rewarded 5 patents in about 3 or 4 months, do not quite recall. Any realization of these patents require a lot of math computations. So, I started with an appeal here to get a pointer how to hire a programmer for the job. You, see, for the past 3-4 years I haven't done much in terms of programming and restoring skills is not easy when you are full time employed. It seems I found two people at least who are interested and I will talk to one of them in a week time and possibly with the other also soon. Nonetheless I am trying to get ahead on my own donwloading software and trying to get at least a head start. I cannot do anything during the working week though--too tired by the end of the day. Thank you for your support. --] (]) 18:41, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
	:::And hence we come back to 'common' sense-- whatever that is. THe only commn sense were going to get here is that upon which we agree.--] 17:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Ok, let me know how it goes, I'd love to know. ] (]) 18:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
	::::Sorry, that's how Misplaced Pages is run. You're gonna keep encountering people citing common sense, and there's nothing you'll be able to do about it. -- ] 18:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Speedy Gonzales ==
	:::::Yes, and "common sense" is code for "I get to decide how to apply the rules, unilaterally, ignoring the consensus". ] 18:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			I think his actual catchphrase was ''¡Arriba! ¡Arriba! ¡Ándale!'' which means approximately, "Get up! Get up! Let's go!" <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	== Appreciation of constructive discussions ==
			:This makes twice in the last few minutes that I've failed to select one or more tildes. (Ironic, given the Spanish theme). ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:30, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
	Hi StuRat. I appreciate your contributions to the ref desk talk page over the past few hours. In particular, it appears to me that conversations between the two of us have taken a turn for the constructive. I'm going to bed now, but I just wanted to let you know that I intend to do my best to keep them that way. -- ] 09:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			::Thanks. My English spelling is a lot better than my Spanish spelling. ] (]) 14:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
	:OK, thanks. I hope you see that I am willing to abide by consensus, it's just one person telling me that I must do what they have personally decided that I object to. ] 09:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::See-see! ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 14:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
	::I know you won't agree that this is what I've done, but I'd like to note that my ''intention'' has never been to unilaterally impose my personal views. Rather I have been acting (and continue to try to act) according to my understanding of existing Misplaced Pages-wide policy and consensus. Good night! -- ] 09:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== please lets not help the bastards ==
	:::I really see the two as synonymous. Since general Misplaced Pages policy is sufficiently vague that anyone can interpret it to mean anything they want, we all will tend to interpret it so that it corresponds with our personal views. Thus, any one person deciding which Misplaced Pages policies apply at the Ref Desk is the same as imposing their own rules. Have a good night, and be sure to dream of consensus-building solutions, LOL. ] 09:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Why is there no detailed page for Adam Lanza??? Like for example the Columnbine High School shooters Dylan Klebold ,and Eric Harris. ....... Is wikipedia an
	::::You don't seem to have the experience with broad Misplaced Pages policy that I have. You may rest assured that, whether you agree with my views or not, they are based on my understanding of consensus from many past policy discussions and incidents. The rules are thus not "my own," even if they may seem that way to you. Now, that's only clarifying my intent, not saying I 100% promise I'm right. -- ] 16:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			independant organization or is it doing what its told? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:] would be the place to ask. Presumably they don't want to make killing children an easy path to fame, to discourage copy cats. ] (]) 15:47, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
	:::::As you say, they are based on "your understanding". As we've discussed before, many of the Ref Desk volunteers also have broad Misplaced Pages experience, including myself, so we don't just accept that your interpretation is always right and ours is always wrong. And, when interpretations vary, that's when consensus should decide the issue. ] 16:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			THAT IS A TERRIBLE AWNSER. HOW ABOUT HIS MOTHER OR FATHER ,,,NO DETAIKS ABOUT THERE LIVES . LOOK UP TED BUNDY ON WIKI HIS WHOLE LIFE IN GREAT DETAIL... BUT NO ADAM NO NANCY AND NO RYAN LANZA ....WHAT GIVES THE CORRECT AWNSER WOULD BE .....THE LANZA FAMILY DOES NOT EXIST THAT IS WHY WE CANT FIND ANY INFO ON THEM <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:41, 16 January 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			== Beetles ==
	::::::You don't have broad policy experience, frankly, and it shows. That's no criticism, but it is true, and it does mean that you tend to invent new solutions to problems for the reference desk rather than using those that are consistent with the rest of Misplaced Pages. Of course I have to use my judgement about what policy says&mdash;everyone does! I tend to be bold in the use of my judgement, because (outside the reference desk) my judgement is generally regarded as good. -- ] 17:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			I just hatted the question. I'm not the OP. ] (]) 21:31, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::That's because those applications of Misplaced Pages policy to article pages is appropriate, while it's not appropriate at the Ref Desk. A different project requires a different application of policy, it's not "one size fits all". ] 17:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::::You're arguing about something that ''already has'' an accepted answer. The RD is in "project" space, not "article" space. Yes, standards are a bit different. ] ] 17:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)		:Yea, we can't give medical advice, but identifying beetles we can do. ] (]) 22:54, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
			::<small>John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Quite easy to identify. Two have gone extinct because of human activities, but the other two are still up and running. </small> <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">] (])</font></span> 22:27, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
			:::LOL, don't forget all those "5th Beatles", like ]. ] (]) 22:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::::I'm not arguing it, I'm saying that is why you two are incorrect in applying policies that are designed for articles, such as when you say "nobody owns an edit" so anyone can delete it if they feel it improves things. That's quite true of an article, but it's not at all true on the Ref Desk. A much higher standard must be met before deleting comments from a talk page, such as the Ref Desk. That is exactly the type of thing that apparently needs clarification for Admins, in the form of a Ref Desk Policy Page. ] 18:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Input ==		== RE: Wool ==
			Cheers, Stu, that actually answers my question. Funnily, I never get it when I am with a girl who wears a woollen sweater or jumper, but only when I wear one. I also get it in the fragrance sections of department stores. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">] (])</font></span> 22:23, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
	I am at work now but will leave my input this evening. Thanks for asking! --] 13:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Maybe it is an actual allergy to lanolin, then, as they do use it in many cosmetics. Then again, you might just have another allergy or sensitivity to perfume. It bothers me, too.
	:Work ??? Get your priorities straight, quit your job and get back to Misplaced Pages immediately ! :-) ] 13:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:BTW, on your talk page, I don't know how to close the box left opened on that applause section. ] (]) 22:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
	::Man cannot live by Misplaced Pages alone (not until thay start paying us that is). Hey do you think we'll get ] on the first printed or CD versions? --] 16:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Second Coming and the Environment ==
	:::Yea, I have to go put in an appearance at work, myself. Why doesn't the boss understand that I have more important things to do ? :-) ] 17:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			By soon, I mean very soon. I am asking this because there are some Christians who claim and believe that Jesus will come back and the world will end very soon. They believe that there are signs of the Second Coming and many of these signs have already been fulfilled. For example, look at . Jesus talked about these signs in ], ] and ].
	::::Cos hes not a <s>nutcase</s> Wikipedian like us 8-)--] 17:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			] (]) 00:19, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
	== Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucracy ==
			:Right, but as many others have pointed out, people have been predicting that Jesus will return "soon", ever since he died, so betting everything on the latest guy's prediction makes little sense. ] (]) 00:37, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
	I just wanted to remind you again of this. Once again, you seem to be wanting a very formal, everything-must-have-an-exact-rule approach, and then you want to vote on it. This is not how we do things here. We don't need to have rules against disruption at the reference desk or any other specific page- disruption is ''already'' disallowed, by policy, tradition, and ''common sense''. ] ] 15:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Refdesk question ==
	:The need for rules and consensus should be quite obvious to everyone by now. This sounds very much like you want to go back to saying "some of the Misplaced Pages rules apply to the Ref Desk, and some don't, and I will be the one who decides which do and which don't, so no consensus is needed, just do as I say". Again, if you don't respect the consensus of other editors, might I point out that a number of Admins have said the same thing as I ? As for disruption, the questions of what constitutes disruption, and what constitutes disruption of a level sufficient to require action, and what that action should be taken, these are all issues to be decided by consensus, not by unilateral action. ] 15:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi Sturat,
	::Misplaced Pages has a number of policies already. If you want to nail down some specifics about the RD (it is different from most pages in some ways) that's great. Of course we all need to respect consensus. But "disruption" is a tricky one- there's a reason we don't have a page that exactly describes which exact actions are disruption. It's a judgment call. If nobody's ever been able to make such a description before, what on earth makes you think we can come up with one at the RD page? I just think if we focus on other areas, we may get a useful result. Trying to nail down a definition of disruption? That's not doable. ] ] 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Thanks for your answer in the refdesk about the structural design of the O2 arena in London. To answer your question, it has support columns at the front. Theres some pictures on this forum. ] (]) 13:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
	:::I don't agree, we can at least nail down the major categories of disruption. The concern here is that you, or somebody else, will just call anything they don't like "disruption" and ignore all the rules we are setting up for how to properly handle disputes. Incidentally, I also consider such actions to be disruptive. Your block of ] is a prime example, you took his behavior to be disruptive, while many people, including Admins, disagreed. Thus, we have proof that your unilateral judgment is not sufficient in these matters. For a quick definition, I would say something is disruptive if it prevents the Ref Desk from functioning. I have a hard time seeing how LC's comment did that. The block, on the other hand, certainly did prevent us from answering many questions, as everyone involved had to spend a great deal of time discussing the block to get it overturned, time that took away from the Ref Desk. And, of course, LC couldn't answer any Ref Desk questions during the block. Therefore, this block violated the goal of working to minimize disruption. ] 15:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::Light current was very obviously trolling just before the block - see the discussion at AN/I. This is hardly in dispute. ] ] 15:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)		:In that case, those on the lower level would have a partially obstructed view, if the balcony extended beyond their position. This is a good reason not to extend it very far. ] (]) 14:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
			::I think the limitation with the O2 arena is that its constructed within an existing structure. The roof of the arena was actually constructed off site and lifted from the floor to the top of the structure, using a lift mechanism. ] (]) 15:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
	:::::I saw the AN/I, did you ? There most definitely was a dispute about whether he was trolling. ] 15:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::This was the Q about why they don't extend the balcony forward farther, wasn't it ? If so, I'm not sure how that construction method for the roof would affect it. ] (]) 16:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
	:::::I wasnt actually, I was busy apologising and removing 'offensive' comments and trying to save my skin (failed tho)--] 16:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::It was about why there's no top tier at the front of the arena. I thought because of the way it was constructed, maybe that's why they couldn't make the arena long enough to accommodate an upper tier. ] (]) 18:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
			==Equal treatment?==
	::::::Let's just disagree on that then. If you want to talk about disruption specifically, maybe ] is a good place to start. Unless there's something I'm missing, there's nothing special about the RD that suggests we need different standards of disruption there than anywhere else. ] ] 16:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi. I've . Any chance of an equivalent gesture from your good self? -- ] </sup></span>]] 02:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
			:Done. ] (]) 04:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::That page strongly supports my case. First, it doesn't contain any actual way to determine what disruption is, meaning that the definition is left to be decided elsewhere (like on the Ref Desk Policy Page). They then warn that "...it is tempting every now and then to use the word to refer to certain acts that, while they should not have been committed, do not actually disrupt anything, either. Please try to avoid this." I believe this applies to your characterization of LC's actions. They certainly were no more severe than "small-scale vandalism": "For instance, one user gratuitously insulting another user, while inappropriate, is not disruptive. Neither is simple small-scale vandalism." They then follow up with an example quite similar to what happened with your block of LC: "Furthermore, don't cause actual disruption in an effort to fix a perceived disruption. An excellent example of this is the Great Userbox War of 2006; several users who claimed userboxes were disruptive, set about deleting and trying to stop further creation of such userboxes. The ensuing fight was orders of magnitude more disruptive than any supposed disruption for which the userbox opponents were able to provide evidence. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is disruption. Disruption is a large-scale hindrance of Misplaced Pages's ability to function, whether technically, administratively, or socially. An insult, or even a string of insults targeted at several users, does not do this." They then finish up with: "Please note, however, that 'disruption' is often Wiki-code for 'something admins don't agree with', which also seems to be exactly what is happening here. ] 16:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:: Thanks. -- ] </sup></span>]] 06:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::I removed that last sentence. It was , and was a throwaway line does not accurately reflect the intent of the essay or community consensus on Misplaced Pages; it simply didn't get fixed quickly. -- ] 16:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			== gifs ==
	:::::::::It has stood since October 13th, so many people apparently agree with it, including me. ] 16:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Cool images. How does one get the appropriate red-blue glasses for the 3d image? ] (]) 21:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::::It was reverted as vandalism, and then forgotten about and later restored. It's clear it's not a highly trafficked page. It was a cheap shot at admins by a disaffected user. I'd rather not argue this point further though; I don't think we need to take our disagreements onto random essay pages. -- ] 16:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! You can find those red-blue glasses in many places. The store ] had them for $1 at some point, and ] gave them away with kid's meals recently. I suppose any hobby store would probably have them, although you might have to buy a 3D comic book or some such thing to get them. You could also make a pair yourself by taping pieces of red and blue colored transparencies to a pair of glasses. Or you could just ask around, probably some friend or relative has a pair they could lend you. (Note that there are other more expensive types of 3D glasses, such as polarized or electronic shuttering glasses, but those won't work with my GIF.) ] (]) 03:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::::We may agree with it Stu, but I still dont think it belongs on that page--] 17:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for March 2==
	:::::::::::As a side note, I firmly believe that administrators who use "disruption" as an excuse to remove things they simply don't like should be held accountable. (In fact, I've seen it happen.) Perhaps you guys believe this is what I have done, but all I can say is it's not what I meant to do&mdash;and I believe many other admins have reviewed my actions, with none censuring me for acting in bad faith... although two did tell me I shouldn't have blocked DirkvdM as I did. The point is, that remark shouldn't be in that essay not because admins are perfect, but because that page is a description of how things ''ought'' to be handled. -- ] 17:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
	::::::::::::They also list two other cases where things don't work as they should (somebody calling things disruption that aren't and a reaction to real or imagined disruption which causes more disruption than the original trigger). ] 17:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
			It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 09:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::As illustrations of what can be done better, not generalized cheap shots. -- ] 17:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Disruption ==		== Coffee strategy ==
			Thanks, StuRat. It's nice that you responded to me when others just deleted my question :) Have a nice day, buddy <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:48, 15 March 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	Regarding , we've had this conversation before. I'd rather not repeat it, but if we must, please direct concerns about me specifically to my talk page, not a project page. ] ] 00:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			:You're welcome, and you too. ] (]) 21:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
	:No, because it has a direct bearing on whether we are willing to let you unilaterally decide what disruption is, which is precisely what we are discussing at the Ref Desk. Therefore, it is entirely relevant to that conversation. ] 00:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for April 3==
	::Oh, I assumed you were complaining about the Light current block. If your issue is relevant to the RD, you could make that more clear. ] ] 00:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
	:::It is related. Your lack of judgment in that case, and others, is why we need to go to formal rules. If you and SCZenz actually only performed "out-of-process" deletions for things which were truly disruption, then nobody would have a problem with that. However, you both delete things which fall far short of being disruptive, then place blocks on users who disagree with you. This is simply not acceptable behavior. Since you don't seem to know what disruption is, we apparently need to define it for you. ] 00:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 08:59, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
	::::You're misunderstanding what people call "out of process deletions", by the way. I've never blocked an editor for disagreeing with me- I endure all manner of insults quite regularly and disregard them. The Light current thing is over (or, I wish it was). It was discussed at AN/I. I'm fine with how my actions were viewed in that discussion, because many experienced editors who well understand how Misplaced Pages works agreed that the block was appropriate. Many people gave the ''same reasons'' I did for why his actions were disruptive. And yes, I see that many people disagreed also. I'm fine with discussing what I think should or shouldn't be done, and I'm fine with discussing whether or not something I did was a good idea. Hell, anyone who wasn't wouldn't function very well here. If you have something new and relevant to say, I'm all ears, but if you just want to flame me, that's not helpful. ] ] 00:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			==You're a real rat==
	:::::What I want is for you to stop trying to disrupt the process of building a consensus on RD rules and work with us to achieve them. Saying "we don't need any rules, I know what's best" (paraphrased, of course) is not helpful. ] 00:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi. I've just noticed after all these years that your name is an anagram of ], the scientific name for the rat. So you really are a rat after all. I don't hear you denying it, so ...
			I have taxonomically named you after yourself: ''Rattus sturatticus''.
	::::::Fair enough. Not sure if it's rhetoric or edits that you're unhappy with, or some of each. If it's rhetoric, let's just agree to disagree, alright? If it's specific actions, object to them as they come up in the approrpiate place and we'll discuss them. Have I done something since the block that you're objecting to? ] ] 00:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			Cool. Have a nice day. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::Yes, you did an "out-of-process" deletion of the question by ]. While the deletion itself may have been acceptable, had you followed the proper process, having you decide the issue unilaterally is not acceptable. ] 00:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::::::If you're objecting to process but not outcome, I'm afraid I'll rarely be sympathetic. There's a general tradition here regarding ]. ] ] 01:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)		:That sounds like a gladiator name, StuRaticus Maximus (which works out well, as my first name is Stu and my middle name is Max). ] (]) 22:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
	==Humourlessness==
			:Strange. All this time I thought his name was an anagram of "stuart". :D ] (]) 00:55, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
	I'm glad you're in conversation with the happy guy, as well. Of course, I'm much more 'useless' than you... --] 14:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Reverted changes to your user page ==
	:Do you mean ] ? ] 15:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			Just to let you know, I reverted some user box additions to your user page added by our friend on the RD who keeps posting probably copyvio nonsense about bacteria to the RD. ] (]) 04:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
	== Barnstar ==
			:Thanks. I wonder why he targeted me. I wasn't involved in that. ] (]) 04:53, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
	{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
			:: <small> Rats deserve everything they get. :) ---- ] </sup></span>]] 11:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC) </small>
	|rowspan="2" |
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
			== 3D animation ==
			Hey! I saw some of your 3D animations. They're awesome! How do you do it? :) ] (]) 15:47, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! I wrote Fortran programs to create individual frames, then stitched them together into animated GIFs using ]. If you follow the links near those animations, you'll find some of the discussions that came up regarding such animation, along with sample code/examples. ] (]) 15:54, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
			::I'll try that. You're making me repent not opting for computer science at high school! ] (]) 00:23, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
			:::It's not too late. There are even free online courses through ] etc. ] (]) 00:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
			::::Thanks for the site. Unfortunately, it only offers university-level courses. ] (]) 00:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
			:::::If they still have the Introduction to Computer Programming courses, those aren't too much to handle. And it's not like you pay for it, so if you have to drop out, there's no penalty for that, therefore you might as well give it a try. There was also a course on Computer Graphics, but I wouldn't recommend that one until you are comfortable with programming. ] (]) 01:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
			::::::That's good, I'll ask my parents about it. ] (]) 03:44, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
			== Your Recent Reference Desk Answer ==
			Hi. Just to say that you can probably move your most recent Reference Desk answer (on what the richest people in the US are doing with their money) directly into your list of "Correct Reference Desk" answers. :-( ] (]) 18:31, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
			:LOL, thanks. ] (]) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
			== alternative biochemistries (BN, F, etc.) ==
			{{talkback|Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science#Alien Worlds???...}}
			Maybe I should discuss this with you on your talk page or open a new thread for this, because it is kind of derailing the OP's original question (Si biochemistry). ] (]) 11:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
			:I think it's close enough to their original Q to stay there. I doubt if they meant "Tell me about silicon based life but please don't mention any other possibilities". ] (]) 14:27, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
			== Please don't feed the trolls ==
			Hi StuRat,
			It would be best to treat Alex Sazanov as a troll. Don't feed the troll. Just ignore him until he goes away.
			If you provide an answer, it triggers others into answering.
			Some folk have given him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he is using machine translation, which can certainly put out what seems to be garbage. However, the variety of posts he's made make trolling far more likely. A very obvious thing to do when using machine translation is, after translating your native text into the target language, get the machine to translate it back again, and compare it with your original input. He's claerly not doing this. And he inventing words not existing in English, and for which there is no plausible source in Russian. He's been repeatedly asked to either use Russian Misplaced Pages, or type in his own language, with no apparent compliance.
			] (]) 14:00, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
			:But his Q's don't seem trollish, they seem like serious ones. Maybe he's just barely literate in Russian, then uses a machine translation to English on top of that. ] (]) 15:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
			== Notification of automated file description generation ==
			Your upload of ] or contribution to its description is noted, and thanks (even if belatedly) for your contribution. In order to help make better use of the media, an attempt has been made by an automated process to identify and add certain information to the media's description page.
			This notification is placed on your talk page because a bot has identified you either as the uploader of the file, or as a contributor to its metadata. It would be appreciated if you could carefully review the information the bot added. To opt out of these notifications, please follow the instructions ]. Thanks!<!--Template:Un-botfill--> ''Message delivered by ] (])'' 15:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
			== Odor ==
			Per ], neutrality isn't about finding a NPOV or unoffensive word, but about finding common ground between spelling variations. You say "odor", I say "odour" - no big deal, but spelling differences are best avoided. I thought "smell" was a synonymous word, but perhaps there is a subtle difference in meaning. But I can't think of a better alternative: "aroma" and "bouquet" aren't appropriate in ], nor are "stink" or "stench". "Smell" does not seem to be inappropriate to me, but if you really don't like it, then please revert to "odour" as this spelling would be consistent with the rest of the article, per ]. Thanks, ] (]) 22:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
			:Your link above (and in the edit summary) doesn't work. It takes me to the top of ], and that gave me no clue you were talking about English variants. I'll go ahead and make it "odour". ] (]) 22:56, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
			::The link works for me. MOS is a long page though, so perhaps it takes time to fully load before jumping down to the relevant section. I don't really see what the problem with "smell" is, but anyway, I won't argue with your last edit. Cheers, 23:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
			== What about "AC power"? ==
			That distinguishes most household "non-mains power" from the mains within an inch of plugs that rival cul-de-sac pipes in thickness. There's "off-grid power" if you want short specificity that your outlet power happens to not be coming from ] (which might ''still'' too small to equal the smallest non-electrical mains, at least one wire at a time). ] (]) 01:52, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
			== Baseball Bugs at AN/I ==
			You have been mentioned in a discussion at ]. ] (]) 16:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
			== ANI notice ==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 16:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
			:StuRat, the nannies are going after us. Including the one just above. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:29, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
			==Note==
			Those various redlinks and IP's are from a banned user (which one, I don't know - possibly Cuddlyable3) and that's why they keep getting reverted. At this point, it's best to not respond to their questions. Give the admins a chance to block them and zap their questions. I'll try and do likewise. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 14:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
			:Right, but which ones are and aren't banned users ? Is there any easy way to know ? ] (]) 16:07, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
			::If it's an IP from Venezuela, it's him. If it's a redlink whose first entry is of the same obvious bent, or a redlink who has made some useless entries just to get confirmed and get past the semi, it's him. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:04, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
			Please-please-please don't edit-war over the quiet-as-possible removal of edits by banned users. It's exactly what the troll wants. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 18:00, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			:Yes, but an absolute minimum requirement is that any removal must list the reason. ] (]) 18:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			::Any comment in the edit summary feeds the troll. However, if it will make you happy, I can say "wp:deny" instead of leaving it blank. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 19:08, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			:::Thanks. Otherwise we are headed to a situation where anyone can delete anything for any reason, with no explanation given. We also shouldn't delete good faith answers. ] (]) 19:11, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			:And stop reverting the deletion of banned-user questions + answers. Banned users ''are not allowed to edit'', and anything they post is subject to deletion on-sight. And deleting the question and leaving the answer not only renders it nonsensical, it feeds the troll. Stop it already. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 19:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			:And also, by the way, the user you've been edit-warring with, Minky543, is actually that same user, playing both sides of the game and loving every second of it. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 19:26, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
			::You can't delete answers by non-banned users. Box it all up, if you like. ] (]) 01:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
			:::I'm going to leave this alone for a little while, and let you and Schultz slug it out with the admins who are trying their best to counter the troll. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 01:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
			== Possessive its versus contraction it's ==
			Stu, I read your replies on the Reference Desk often and appreciate your insights and helpfulness. However, I have noticed that you often use "it's" (the contraction) when you mean to use "its" as a possessive pronoun. --] (]) 13:48, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
			:Yes, that's intentional. I believe "it's" is more consistent with other possessive forms, like "Bob's" and "Mary's". I realize that my usage is nonstandard. ] (]) 18:44, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
			== Offensive comment ==
			I find your comment highly offensive and ask that you choose your words more carefully in the future. It's not my fault if your comments are so unclear such that they were legitimately misintepreted by me and as I've said, it's not the first time you've asked to be clearer. ] (]) 15:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
			:Nobody considers being accused of nitpicking to be "highly offensive". And there does seem to be a popular game here to try to misinterpret someone's comments, then say they are wrong (under that misinterpretation). It would be damned near impossible to write anything that couldn't be intentionally misinterpreted. I am reminded of the ] species in the ] universe, who wrote a half million word long treaty in an attempt to remove all ambiguity: . ] (]) 16:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
			==Risk assessment==
			If I can ask you to be clearer on something else, how does "increased risk in flying over a war zone where 3 aircraft had already been shot down is a no-brainer" measure up with "Looking at the past record is only one way to determine risk, and not a good choice for infrequent events."?
			Not trying to be a dick, just curious to whether you think flying there would be more, less or just as risky today. ] ] 04:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
			:(Is there some reason why you didn't add a new section ? In any case, I did it for you.)
			:I meant the past record of the actual event in question, in this case shooting down a passenger jet. Related events, such as shooting down of military jets, are also useful for risk assessment, especially where those related events are more common.
			:Ironically, flying over that area would likely be safer now, even as the perception of risk is much higher, since the militants probably realize that they screwed the pooch big time, and the resulting threat of serious sanctions may cause them to lose vital support from the Russians. ] (]) 05:20, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
			::Fair enough. Not trying to say you're wrong or right, just wondering. Didn't add a new section because it seemeed relevant to misunderstandings. My bad. ] ] 05:22, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
			==Sorry==
			I would like to apologize for getting a little snippy on ]. I know you're just trying to help. :-) I think you caught me in a bad mood, and took it too personally, since I've already put so much effort into understanding and accounting for every little detail of the system and putting checks in place to catch as much unexpected behavior as possible. Obviously I agree that it is always good advice to assume you haven't accounted for everything and have a backup plan in place. :-) ] (]) 11:53, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
			:Thanks. I've just seen so many programs that failed to handle conditions which they assumed could never happen, that I always try to plan for them: "The best-laid plans of mice and men (and women) often go awry." ] (]) 12:09, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
			::The software I work on tests things that put mice and men and women into space, so I try to be careful. :-) ] (]) 16:34, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
			:::Better not send any mice to the Moon, in case it's made of cheese. :-) ] (]) 01:03, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
			==Speculative "answers" ==
			Hi Stu. I thought it would be more polite to post this here, and not distract from the thread.
			Do you see how this is an example of why your un-cited claims bug people? Why make stuff up? Sure, it ''sounds reasonable'' that you can't use the wind to go faster than the wind -- but that's incorrect, as you would have known if you'd read the info on wind turbine land vehicles in Katie's link. It's also common knowledge among people who've been sailing, and is often mentioned as a fun factoid the first time a newbie boards a sailing vessel. It's a reference desk, not a "sounds reasonable" desk. I suppose you could say it doesn't matter because your error was quickly corrected, but for better or worse, people might believe the things you say, and there's not always someone right there with the time and knowledge to set the record straight. I'm not trying to be mean spirited. I didn't want to search through your extensive post history to find examples of this sort of thing, but when one popped up this morning, I thought I'd bring it to your attention, in light of the previous talk page thread. ] (]) 14:36, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
			:I'm rather skeptical. The only source I found in that article appears to be this one, from an admitted amateur: . And that seems to violate the ] law. So, like ], I need more proof than one experiment, before I accept it. What that source might be saying is that it can move slower than the wind, store up energy, the use that to sprint ahead of the wind for a short period. If so, that seems possible, but that still limits your average speed to below that of the wind. ] (]) 14:54, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
			:Here's another source I found, which says "Even professional aeronautical engineers can’t agree": . So, if I'm wrong, at least I'm in good company. ] (]) 15:06, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
			== Apologies ==
			I apologized for my snappy remark and mischaracterization in the unhealthy ingredients question - I misread what you had written and responded poorly, my fault entirely.] (]) 21:52, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
			:Thanks ! I think we are really both saying about the same thing, perhaps with me putting a bit much more emphasis on individual ingredients than you. I certainly agree that processed food should be avoided, whenever possible. ] (]) 04:41, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
			==Mason jars==
			The term for a mason jar lid that doesn't have a separate ring and gasket lid is "storage lid" or "storage cap" - search those terms on google/amazon etc. . Good luck, ] (]) 16:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
			:Thanks, ] (]) 17:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
			== CRT ==
			"''On my CRT monitor...''." LOL. You should let your family know what to get you for Christmas. :-) ] <span style="color:#3CB371;">¤</span> </span>]] 08:44, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
			:It would be bad for the environment to dump my CRTs (3 TVs + 3 monitors) in the landfill. And sending thousands of dollars to a non-democratic and increasingly militaristic power, the Chinese, seems socially irresponsible, to me. ] (]) 13:40, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
			::These things are cheaper now. Less than 1000 overall and I think most aren't even made in China anymore. ] &#124; <sup>]</sup> 1 Adar 5775 00:32, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
			== StuRat, would you kindly examine my GFortran post at LinuxQuestions.org. ==
			StuRat hi. I know you are an expert on GFortran. I recently had a problem and posted at a . In the end I solved the issue myself but I still do not understand why my FORMAT statement did not work.
			My question is: "What is wrong with my FORMAT statement" If for some reason you will not be able to see the thread, I will post it here. Thanks, --] (]) 17:43, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
			:OK, I will take a look. ] (]) 21:54, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
			:I did get an error when trying to view it, apparently you must be a member of that forum to view it. So, please list it here. ] (]) 00:04, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
			'''I had this file with columns of data:'''
			File gray_h_20.dat:
			0 1956.353271 ; 1957.88532 ; 1958.421583 ; 242.7323189
			1 3041.603197 ; 3044.183214 ; 3044.777652 ; 577.2555817
			In real file the semicolons were absent. The total number of lines was 256.
			program main
			real :: val1,val2,val3,val4,diff1,diff2,dcent1,dcent2
			integer :: reason = 0, ii = 0, jj = 75
			100 format (I4,f15.6,f15.6,f15.6,f15.6) ! for reading from unit 1 file
			200 format ("reason = ",I10," jj = ",I10)
			700 format (f8.3) ! for writing into the unit 3 file
			500 format (I3,". val1= ",f11.7," val2= ",f11.7," diff1 = ", f8.3," or ",f6.2,"%", " diff2 = ",f8.3," or ", f6.3,"%") ! for writing into stdout; unit 6
			open (unit=1, file = "gray_h_20.dat", status = 'old')
			open (unit=3, file = "diff_h_20.dat", status = 'old')
			DO WHILE (reason .eq. 0)
			ii = ii + 1
			! THIS STATEMENT GAVE ME TROUBLE
			read (1,100,IOSTAT=reason) jj,val1,val2,val3,val4
			write (6,200) reason,jj
			diff1 = val1 - val2
			diff2 = val1 - val3
			dcent1 = diff1 / val1 * 100
			dcent2 = diff2 / val1 * 100
			write (3,700) dcent1
			write (6,500) ii, val1, val2, diff1, diff2, dcent1,dcent2
			enddo
			close (unit=1)
			close (unit=3)
			end
			I get this error, and also one line of "output" which is no output at all:
			Quote:
			reason = 5010 jj = 75
			1. val1= -0.0000142 val2= 0.0000000 diff1 = -0.000 or -0.00% diff2 = 100.000 or 0.553%
			This is how I resolved it and it began working.
			read (1,*,IOSTAT=reason) jj,val1,val2,val3,val4
			I would like to know why the first FORMAT statement failed.
			Thanks --] (]) 19:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
			:One question, do you have a blank at the beginning of each line in the input file ? If not, try that. I believe certain format statements expect the first character to be a special control character, and that might mess things up.
			:Also, instead of just using blanks to separate the columns, try commas. ] (]) 04:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
			StuRat hi, It is kind of interesting but unfortunately impractical. Someone else supplies the input file for me and it is not in the format I am using. This person sends me columns of numbers in '''.xlsx''' format which is Office Excel. I cannot use it in Ubuntu, at least I don't know how. So I copy about five columns at once to the clipboard and paste them into a '''.dat''' file in Ubuntu Terminal. Inserting commas manually is not for me.
			Now the blank at the beginning of each line? There are no blanks, but entering the blanks manually? I can try that to prove the principle because this thing puzzles me. Thanks, --] (]) 17:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
			:OK, let me know how it goes. You can delete all but 2 lines, insert a space at the start, do one test, then add commas for a 2nd test. Once we know if either of those are the problem we can look for a solution, if you want to go beyond unformatted input. ] (]) 17:54, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
			I moved the first 10 lines one position to the right thus giving each line a blank byte at the beginning. The formatted input did not work as before. This is what I got in the output file: ******** (one line only). --] (]) 02:42, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
			:Did you try the commas ? I suspect that without those, it will read by column. For example, an I4 read will try to read 4 characters and plug them into an integer. If part of the next number is in that 4 characters, things will go haywire. ] (]) 04:46, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
			No I did not do it yesterday. I did it now and it gave the same result: ******** . Just one line if it can be called a line. I inserted the commas as you suggested. Even if it worked I probably would not do the commas. It is kind of ridiculous to do it by hand on a large file given the fact that unformatted input works so well. So the problem has no answer. You can actually take my code and run it and confirm. Thanks, --] (]) 01:35, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
			:Yea, I've had a similar experience with formatted FORTRAN reads. They are extremely particular that everything be in exactly the right place. Unformatted input is safer. ] (]) 02:55, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
			I forgot to mention one interesting thing. I failed to remove the commas and the line shifts one position to the right. The unformatted READ ignored the nuisance as it were not there and read the real stuff: floating point numbers.
			This will close the discussion, he, he. Thank you, --] (]) 16:27, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
			:OK, and good luck. I think the formatted reads go back to ]s, when each space on the card was specifically reserved for one data type, not like the ]s we tend to use today, where spacing is ignored. Back then, space was at a premium, so they would put one number right up against the next, not using any spaces or commas in between, and the formatted reads were designed to decipher that. ] (]) 17:33, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
			== Req Technical Advive ==
			Hi, Stu.
			You've been helpful before with TV questions. My parents have done away with cable entirely. The live 20 miles or less SE from downtown Philly and get all the Philly stations in normally very good HD reception. They have a 40-y/o outdoor antenna which works but could use replacing.
			My Dad wants to install an in-attic antenna. He's looking at price and quality, but he's also interested in a hi-range antenna, since he lives 75 miles or less SW from NYC.
			He'd like to get an antenna that would get the NYC stations, since it would easily double there number of stations, although much of the programming may be duplicate.
			I suggested he look here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=hdtv+antenna+indoor+150+mile+range
			I have three main questions. Is a hi range TV that will also get NYC going to have to rotate every time he changes channels? (Frankly I think with his proximity to philly he can probably just keep the antenna aimed at NYC and get the philly due to the mere proximity of the signal.
			Second is there any specific brands you can either recommend or warn him away from.
			Third, is there any other issue I might not be thinking of that you suggest I pay attention to?
			Thanks. ] (]) 18:17, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
			:I really wouldn't recommend trying to get a digital TV signal from 75 miles away, but, if you're committed to it, it will take everything you can possibly do to get it to work, and then you can still expect to lose the signal regularly. (It's not like analog TV where a weak signal is still viewable, just with some "snow".) Some additional thoughts:
			:1) Some antennae are highly directional while others are somewhat directional or omni-directional. For that kind of range, though, I think you want a highly directional antenna. The directional ones also usually receive signals well from the opposite direction, and sometimes from a few other directions, as well. You might want to use both the new directional and old omni-directional antenna together. You can hook them up to a switch box at the TV you can use to select between the two. I have this setup.
			:2) Rotating antennae can be a bit of a pain. You need to use a remote control to rotate them, it needs to be lubricated periodically, you need to keep the area clear to allow for rotation, and you have to wait for it to rotate every time you change channels. I'd avoid those.
			:3) In-attic might not work. It may need the additional height you get by putting it on the roof. At 75 miles, you might have the Earth in between your antenna and the broadcast antenna, due to the curvature of the Earth, unless you go higher. 75 miles is really pushing the limits, so you'd have to go all out to make it work.
			:4) Something else to consider is the frequencies you are trying to receive. Different antennae are more sensitive to different frequencies. Note that under digital TV, the channel number no longer corresponds directly with the broadcast RF (radio frequency) signal. So, you'd want to determine the frequencies of the TV channels you're trying to get and select an antenna good at those frequencies. You won't be able to get low ] at that range, because they are restricted on power output. For this reason most digital TV stations are broadcasting in either high VHF or ]. ] (]) 21:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
			:::Thanks a lot, that was ''very'' clear and helpful. My dad wasn't set on the NYC channels, and there was a miscommunication between us, he wants the antenna in the house itself, not the attic. His concern is that he gets pixelation when it's bad weather. He might go with on-the-roof, but he's 76 and it's not like Walmart will install it. (I can do inside wiring, but I have overpowering acrophobia (I got locked out of my apartment once and had to climb the fire escape from a 4th story to a 5th story window, which took about 30 minutes for me to do in inch by inch increments.)) The NYC signals come out of the Twinless Tower so they are pretty high, there are no mountains in between, he lives at almost the highest elevation in SJ, but that's like 100ft, so not much help.
			:::One last question. Since almost all of the channels he gets are at 10 degrees west of due north from him, and they come in fine now on his 40 y/o antenna, is there any point in a unidrectional antenna? There are other stations, mostly PBS, which they like) that come out of Vineland and (S) Atlantic City ESE) and Trenton (N). Not knowing the right word, would an omnidrectional (?) antenna be a good idea, if there is such a thing? Thanks. ] (]) 01:06, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
			::::Yes there are, but none are 100% omnidirectional, or 100% unidirectional, for that matter. What channels get the pixelation ? If those are the ones 10 degrees west of north, then a directional antenna for those and an omnidirectional antenna for the rest might work. As for brands, Winegard and Channel Master seem to usually have the best antennae. But as for putting it inside the house, and not in the attic, you have to realize that directional antennae are big and ugly, not the type of thing you want in your living room. Maybe if he has a utility or storage room, that might be appropriate, but you also have the antenna wires to deal with. ] (]) 01:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
			:::::For his convenience, he wants an omnidirectional antenna in the living room one in the botom center of the home that will get better than the one on the roof 30 ft up. I know this will cause my mother to have apoplexy. He also doesn't want to have to run wiring other than by the current route, which is down the West side of the house from the roof and across the garage into the living room. I am going to try to convince him either to put a new antenna where the old antenna is, or perhaps one in my sister's old room which is rarely used and has a northward view from the second floor. The Channel that comes in poorly is 23 PBS out of Camden, which can't be more that 1-3 degrees away from the Philly transmitters from his transmitters.
			:::::The problems at this point seem ones of effort, esthetics, and emotion, so again your advice has been helpful. He was going to get the Channel Master C2 if I remember (don't have my email open) but was going to try to fit that in an almost below ground room in the center of the house, in an 18" space behind and south of the TV. Thanks for all the practical advice, I will pass it along shortly. ] (]) 02:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
			::::::You're welcome, but be sure to explain to him the huge difference in reception he will get due to the elevation difference. If he wants to put a directional antenna behind the TV in that small space, it would have to be the bay type (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=4228-hd is a good one). However, he would be quite limited in where he could aim it.
			::::::Also, you might be thinking that a new antenna would have to outperform a 40 year old one. This is not necessarily true. Very little improvement has been made to TV antenna technology over the last 40 years, because people have been switching to cable and satellite TV. There have been improvements in cell phone antennae based on fractal geometry, but so far AFAIK nobody has tried to adapt this to TV antenna. ] (]) 02:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
			==The Misplaced Pages Library - ScotlandsPeople - You've got mail==
			{{You've got mail|sig=]<sup>♦]</sup> 06:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)}}
			== Your graphics software ==
			StuRat, I want to know what graphics software you are using. Thanks, --] (]) 22:02, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
			:You mean the animated GIFs from my home page ? As I said "I generate the panes using FORTRAN programs I write, then use ImageMagick to stitch them together into animated GIFs." You might wonder why I do it this way instead of using some off-the-shelf program. Well, my goal was to learn the basics, and I wanted to start from scratch to do this. ] (]) 00:52, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
			Yes, I remember those animated pictures and this is why I asked you this question. My goal is actually different. I am not interested in animation. I was wondering if GFortran has intrinsic graphics capabilities. That was the impression I had when you showed that stuff to me. I currently use '''gnuplot''' which is outside GFortran, so I have to fill up a file with floating point values and then use a short file with '''gnuplot''' code and issue a simple command to display the graphic. There are numerous graphics program on the web. Thanks, ---] (]) 01:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
			:No, I've not found any. I believe I asked this Q at the Ref Desk some time ago. I do everything manually. The ] allows you to output a human-readable ASCII graphics file, which can be displayed directly. However, those are huge and slow, so you likely will want to convert them to another format. You could also theoretically output binary graphics files directly from FORTRAN, but debugging is problematic, since you can't read the file directly anymore. (I've actually been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet, so if you do, I'd love to get a copy.) Then graphics file compression is another issue, and even if you create binary files, you'd still likely want to use another program to compress them. ] (]) 16:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
			==Regarding Emilie claire Barlow==
			I did send a self addressed stamped envelope and I got nothing. Please help me.
			] (]) 01:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
			:How long ago ? If they answer their mail personally, it can take a very long time to get caught up. ] (]) 03:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
			::A year ago. ] (]) 04:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
			:::They still might still answer after that long, but I'd also try your other approach of catching her in person. ] (]) 15:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
			== Thanks for the help! ==
			{{WikiCookie}}
			To StuRat, Tcncv, Salix alba, Dismas and Mandruss. I gather that most of the time when you answer questions at the reference desk, you never hear back, so I wanted to let everyone involved in ] know a few months later that it made a real convenience difference in my life and is much appreciated! Thanks again.--] (]) 18:54, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
			:Thanks, glad we could help ! ] (]) 19:13, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for January 4==
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 09:05, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
			== Being bullied by Baseballbugs ==
			Any chance you could intervene here?
			Every time I create a new question of the ref desk this particular editor swoops in with arbitrary removals of my question. This bully boy approach is really unhelpful and I have no idea why he feels compelled to pick on me personally. When questioned, he is unable to explain his actions. Which suggests to me that his behavior is purely driven by malice.
			See my revision page.
			:Your Q "Why did Jimmy cross the road" seems to have been removed for good reason. If you meant something like "What was Jimmy Wales' motivation for starting Misplaced Pages ?", then you should have said so. Unfortunately, that question marked you as a troll in BB's mind. I suggest you sign up, then he won't recognize you. And avoid any more silly Q's like the crossing the road one. Your Q on Misplaced Pages biases seems reasonable to me, and I wouldn't have removed it. I'll put it back and see if he leaves it there now. ] (]) 16:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
			::This time he's blocked for a week. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 19:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
			"::This time he's blocked for a week. ←]"
			Sort of.
			And you were contradicted more reasonable, fellow Wikipedian's who kept my most current question live. Whereas you wanted to delete the whole lot. Friendly tip : best you keep that ego genie in the bottle. We all know he knows best, don't worry.] (]) 22:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
			== ANI notification ==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
			== Misc desk ==
			I deleted it without comment because it was an obvious attempt at a BLP-attack on Wales. Please, don't start another troll-feeding bout. Revert yourself without comment. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:03, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:I have posted it on Wales' talk page so he can decide what it's about, if anything. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:It's not at all obvious to me. Take it to the talk page and try to garner a consensus. ] (]) 07:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			==Ref Desk proposal==
			Hi Stu, I don't know if you've been following the recent threads on the ref desk talk page, but based on some review of that material, I have a simple proposal that I'd like your feedback on before I shop it to the whole group. It's very simple: For a trial period (1 month?), we agree to not remove or hat ''any'' questions for reasons of seeking medical/legal advice (and perhaps extend to include requests for opinion). Rather than a free-for-all, we first respond with boilerplate or a template, something along the lines of this: {{cquote|Hello, and welcome to the Misplaced Pages Reference desk. Your question seems to be seeking medical or legal advice . We do not give this type of advice , but our users will be allowed to post citations/links to informational references. We hope this information might be useful to you. If you further pursue advice here, this question may be removed.}}
			At that point, we can remove any responses that diagnose, proscribe, treat any illness or legal situation, but allow links to RS. Perhaps even demand that any responses include references, or risk removal. Would that seem ok to you? The thing is, we really don't get ''that'' many medical legal questions, and I like how this puts us in the position to police ourselves as respondents, rather than posters. As I see it, this proposal is consistent with our guidelines, and it ''might'' forestall some debates, because hopefully the use of a template will warn all our regulars (and irregulars) to be on their best behavior. On the upside, we can then provide useful information, such as links to other people's opinion pieces, links to WP pages that are about medical topics, peer-reviewed literature, etc.
			So, any thoughts? Would you support such an experiment? Thanks, ] (]) 15:04, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:No, I don't think that would work, as written, because of editors like Medeis, who think anything related to biology is medical advice. Give her the ability to delete responses without consensus and she would delete even more than she does now. If you add that deletions can only occur after a consensus is garnered on the talk page, then I could support your proposal. ] (]) 15:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			::Sure, we could do it that way. I'm certainly open to tweaking the details. The main thing I want to promote is to focus on responses, not questions. I see it as our job to behave ethically, not poster's jobs to read all our guidelines and know how to not even look like a hint of a troll or advice seeker. I was actually keeping Medeis in mind. My thought was that she could feel happy by adding that template to certain questions, and she might be less likely to delete a regular user's posted answer (i.e. not "drive-by IP" as some of them say), especially since theoretically further responses would be very careful to give advice. Oh well. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see what the others I've asked say, and maybe post on the talk page about it over the weekend. ] (]) 16:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:::Let me give an example. Say somebody asks how many teeth an adult human should have. Under current rules, Medeis would hat the question as requesting medical advice, then everyone else would ignore her hatting or remove it, since it obviously isn't a request for medical advice. Under your proposed rule, somebody would give the answer, perhaps with a link, and Medeis would then delete it. Others wouldn't know the correct answer was deleted, and waste time providing their own answer, which she would then delete again. That's not an improvement. ] (]) 17:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			::::If the question were "How many teeth does an adult human have?", then that's not asking for medical advice, and I think if anyone tried to remove it, they would be resisted. And drama would ensure. I think my solution could make it better - here's my scenario - if we agreed on a template, it could be added to the question (even though I think that would be erroneous, I wouldn't mind) Then someone can say "see our article on ], which says that a normal healthy human has 32 permanent teeth" - and if anyone tried to remove ''that'' answer, they'd be wrong to do so, and I'm fairly confident our community would act to restore the response. Btw, have a look at Medeis' talk page. I dropped a line there too, and she seems basically amenable... ] (]) 17:43, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:::::Her argument would be that if we tell them how many teeth a normal adult human is supposed to have, that they would then conclude that they either have the correct number or incorrect number of teeth, which is a medical diagnosis, and we should not assist people in self-diagnosis. She's renowned for this type of absurd misinterpretation of the rules. Also, since some people have wisdom teeth and some don't she would also argue that we are not qualified to answer, and that they must consult their dentist.
			:::::And yes, her deletions would be reverted, ''if anyone knew she made them''. They will only show up on our watch-lists until the next edit to that Ref Desk is made. I for one don't comb through the history of each Ref Desk page every hour to check to see what else she has deleted, and I doubt if anyone else does, either. So, the problem with unilateral deletions is they can easily slip under the radar. Not so for hatting or consensus deletions.
			:::::And I'm not at all surprised that she would favor any proposal that allows her to do unilateral deletions. ] (]) 18:32, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			::::::I'm in no way trying to encourage deletions - exactly the opposite is my goal - to use a template instead of deleting. How about just the template, instead of hatting/closing? With nothing about further responses, neither explicitly preventing them nor allowing them. Something like this:{{cquote|Hello, and welcome to the Misplaced Pages Reference desk. Your question seems to be seeking medical or legal advice. We do not give professional advice , header link]. Our goal here is to provide citations and links to informational references and WP articles. WP is the encyclopedia ] can edit, so we cannot make any guarantees (, , ). If you seek medical, legal, or other professional advice, please find a licensed practitioner in your jurisdiction.}}
			::::::The idea was just to get something fairly innocuous that we could agree on, that might both keep people from needlessly deleting things, and also help teach readers and posters about our guidelines. This form doesn't change any of our guidelines in any way, but it is designed to avoid any need to delete posts. If I can get Medeis (and others) to agree to post this template (or something similar) instead of deleting, wouldn't you call that progress, or at least a small improvement? I know I would, but I'm trying to see how others feel, so that I don't waste my time on a huge talk thread that accomplishes nothing. ] (]) 18:55, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
			:::::::That looks OK, as long as they sign it. An unsigned template like that makes it look like it's a consensus statement, when it's really just one person's opinion. Is there a way to make a template always add the signature of the person who left it ? ] (]) 01:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
			== Piscine retribution ==
			{{trout|Misrepresentation of the Star Wars Original Trilogy ] &#124; <sup>]</sup> 1 Adar 5775 00:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)}}
			== Gentle... ==
			...on My Mind, as sung by Ethel Merman. I doubt there's a recording of it anywhere. It was something I saw on a TV variety show back in the 60s. You've heard the expression about a singing voice that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard? This was worse. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
			:Ha. Turns out it was on the Carol Burnett Show, March 3, 1969. So it might still exist somewhere. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
			== HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ==
			https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Computing&diff=next&oldid=653489182#Quest_about_jkflip_flops_and_transition_state_diagramsg
			please :( ] (]) 18:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
			== Bedbugs question ==
			Hi StuRat, I replied to your reply. Best wishes, Rich Peterson] (]) 06:27, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
			==Areas of interest/expertise ==
			Hi Stu, would you consider adding in some of your areas of interest/expertise to ]? I know you're pretty expert on some types of computer stuff, maybe some physics and probably other things I don't even know about :) I'd like to get more people to participate so that it might become a useful resource for all of us. Thanks, ] (]) 14:33, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
			== a user who may need a friend ==
			hello StuRat it is dfrr this user who goes by the name ] has not been getting messages from anyone but me in fact only one other user has sent him a message when he first came here to wikipedia. so lets send him him barnstars wikiloves messages anything to make him feel like people know he is here at wikipedia. thank you and have a great spring] (]) 09:27, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
			== Darnell ==
			Since you just brought it up: Was Darnell wearing a ]? ] doesn't mention it. &mdash; ] 02:16, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
			:The pic (is that Darnell ?) seems to show a blue shirt. They weren't very consistent on shirt colors in ]. ] (]) 02:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
			:: Which pic? &mdash; ] 02:30, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
			:::Right after my link to the article. Looks like he fell victim to the killer frog. :-) ] (]) 02:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
			:::: Either that or ]es, I would imagine. &mdash; ] 02:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
			== Invitation ==
			{| style="margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica" width="90%"
			|-
			| ]
			| <div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:15px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">I'd like to invite everyone to join the ]. We are currently on demand for new members, the project was dying, but with your help we can revive it and make it one of the best WikiProjects. Make me sure that you'll think about this and remember cooperative works can do amazing things. Regards ] (]) 10:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)</div>
	|-		|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For a funny comment at the expense of Microsoft: "I actually like the name 'Windows' for the O/S, as it accurately portrays how paneful it is to use." I recieved a barnstar for a similar comment so I thought I'd spread the love ]<sup>'''] ]'''</sup> 20:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
	|}		|}
			== Inequality ==
	:Thanks ! ] 20:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hey Stu! I believe that you have your second inequality backwards over at ].
	== Please ==
			Presumably Clover's wording was imprecise. Cheers! -- ] 23:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
			:Ah yes, good catch. Fixed now. Thanks, ] (]) 23:47, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
	Again, please: if you're just , do it on my talk page. We need to struggle to stay on-topic at the RD talk page. ] ] 23:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			::It's still funky! The inequality shifts between both the first and second equation and between the second and third, though I can't quite tell which way Clover intended. BTW, I am somewhat confused at how someone who asks such a simple question can follow up with question about Rosenblatt transforms. -- ] 00:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
	:I merely meant to say that you are bound to be more proficient at apologizing, since you need to do it so often. :-) ] 23:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
	::I wish you would heed the advice of the editors who've asked you to put our personal conflict behind you. ] ] 23:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)		:::The tricky part is "If x < y, then 1/x > 1/y, when x & y are both positive or both negative". We don't actually know that the left side is positive, do we ? I'm not sure what to do in this case. ] (]) 02:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
			::::If L is a real number, then e<sup>(-1/L)</sup> is positive. Also, I now see that Clover was clear about which inequality sign they meant where, with the first equation and the final answer using "''greater than or equal to''" and the intermediate equation using "''less than or equal to''". -- ] 07:39, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
	:::Just having a bit of fun. ] 23:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Neutral Heading ==
	I'm asking you ''again'' to please keep the on my user talk page rather than on project talk pages. Actually, stopping with the flamebait altogether is even better. ] ] 19:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			Stu, you are well aware section headings are supposed to neutrally state an issue, not attack a single person. I am not the sole person who disagrees with you, keep you edits to the discussion because if you edit war over getting my name in the header I'll take action. ] (]) 03:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
	:It's not flame bait, it's the truth, you seem to be intentionally lying about what the template says to try to get it removed. It does '''NOT''' say "You must add this template to get a useful answer", which is how you keep misrepresenting it. ] 20:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			:As you well know, listing a person's name in the header doesn't make it not neutral. I mentioned your action and why you claimed you took it, and nothing else, in my latest version. Your "Answering opinion with opinion" header was not even close to being neutral. ] (]) 03:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
	::I was expressing my opinion about the impression the template gives. Reasonable people can disagree reasonably without it requiring one of them to be intentionally lying. ] ] 20:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Ref desk problem - edit conflict? ==
	:::You couldn't possibly think the template means what you claim: ] 20:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi Stu, you seem to have inadvertently removed some other responses . Did you have an edit conflict? ] (]) 18:44, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
	If you would prefer a more formal response, put {{strict}}
	at the end of your question. Editors will try to include references in their responses to your question, and will refrain from posting responses not specifically applicable to your question.
			:I undid your edit so as to restore what was there before. Could you re-add your response, as it will be helpful to other readers? Thanks, ] (]) 18:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
	== Iraq ==
			::He probably shouldn't re-add it, as it was wrong. "Random" referred to the random order of cards in the machine, according to the magazine article (and common sense—random access is a feature of every filing system ever, so it wouldn't be a selling point). -- ] (]) 19:04, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
	Man what a shitstorm I got myself into! Oh well, that's life, and it seems to me that even if they don't entirely agree with me, most of the folks involved are smart enough to realize what's what.
			:::No, the earliest computer systems could only read sequentially, and being able to access data non-sequentially was a real selling point. Of course, now it's like "stereo", so widespread you don't really need to say it anymore, but some people still do.
	Anyway, with regards to Iraq, I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way. To your credit, you tend to hold a very finely drawn position on many issues. Sometimes so fine that I can barely make it out. I was only surprised because if I remember correctly, you seem to hold a very cynical view of things like Halliburton and the like. I only assumed, therefore, that your cynicism would include a belief that the whole war was "all about Americans stealing oil from Iraq". I suppose I assumed wrong. Take care, Lewis ] 20:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
	:No, I think it was about Bush getting revenge for Saddam trying to kill his father. There has been one positive effect of the war, though, huge numbers of terrorists that would have been launched against the West were instead sent to Iraq. ] 20:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)		:::As for being able to retrieve any cards in the specific order, regardless of the order in which they are loaded, that's the same thing I was saying. ] (]) 19:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
			::Thanks, Duncan. I got an edit conflict, but when I looked at it it seemed to take my changes, so I left it, not realizing it had somehow wiped out the conflicting edit. ] (]) 19:27, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
	::I realize that it's the job of the President to put the country first, and not let personal feelings cloud his judgment, but between you and me, honestly, if you were President, and some prick tried to kill your dad, wouldn't you feel like having the guy whacked? I know I would. In any case, he certainly deserved to die. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding Ford's decision to issue a Presidential Directive outlawing political assassinations, but perhaps it should be reconsidered. I still believe that Saddam '''had''' to be dealt with, not just diplomatically, but physically. He was a madman and a danger to the region and the world and, I won't mince words...he had to be "eliminated".
			== Change of section header ==
	::I've come to realize that the whole "shock and awe" thing was unnecessary overkill, and, tragically, cost the lives of several thousand young Americans who did not deserve to have their lives cut so short. Still, I support Bush in the sense that he had the simple wisdom to realize that something had to be done, and quickly. Put a Democrat in the Oval Office and he'll just dawdle around overintellectualizing the whole thing until it's way too late.
			It's Viennese Waltz, not Vienna Waltz. --] 14:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
	::I know I'll seem partial by saying this, but there's a better way: the Israeli way. A surgical strike here, a targetted assassination there, and you've basically accomplished the mission, with few if any casualties.
			:OK, thanks for the correction. And I striked out the comment, not because what any men think, but because Deb didn't like it. ] (]) 14:46, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
	::Just wait and see what happens sometime in the next 24 months regarding Iran and that insane midget of a President they have. '''Mark my words here.''' Of course the UN and the international community will put in some pathetic attempt to deal with the whole thing, and I wish them all the luck in the world. But you and I both know that the UN is clearly not up to the task. So what's the alternative? The legitimacy of US military action has basically been spent due to the whole Iraq thing. So, when the time finally comes, when faced with a nuclear armed Iran and no one else willing or able to do anything about it, the Israelis will have no choice but to take matters into their own hands. Israel's been underestimated time and again, yet they've always risen to the task. The Mossad knows precisely where each and every vital component of Iran's nuclear program is. And the IAF is more than capable of executing the necessary surgical strike. In fact I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that they're planning and training for it '''at this very moment'''. And don't worry about any sort of nuclear war breaking out in the region. The strike would obviously be timed to be executed before Iran finally has any capability to strike back. And the whole thing would involve so few human casualities. Virtually none for the Israelis, and, though even the death of a single human being is a tragedy, the casualties on the Iranian side would be rather minimal. Of course the UN would condemn Israel for its "deplorable and unnacceptable" breach of "international law", just as they did in '81 when they did basically the same thing in Osiraq. Incredibly, even the US voted FOR the condemnation. But as I've said before on another subject, that's life. What must be done must be done. Most of the leaders of the free world, though they may not be able to admit it publically, are intelligent enough to know what's what.
			::Thanks for doing that, although I don't agree with your reason. Men are just as entitled to object to sexist humour as women are, and their objections should carry no less weight. Your argument is like saying that a racist joke is acceptable as long as a black person finds it acceptable. --] 08:29, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
	::Of course I may be totally wrong, but that's my prediction. I just wanted to state it here so that if I'm right in my prediction, I'll have the proof to back it up! ] 06:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::Not a racist joke, but saying things like "You my nigga !", which is acceptable in some black cultures. When everyone starts worrying about 3rd parties possibly getting offended, it becomes a political correctness nightmare. To put it in legal terms, you lack "standing" to object. ] (]) 13:13, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
	:::I think you may be right on an Israeli strike on Iran, and quite possibly with covert US help (like helping to develop "bunker buster" bombs for Iran's underground sites). I disagree on Iraq, however. Saddam, while an evil genocidal bastard, is a "moderate" by Muslim standards, in that he isn't a religious extremist. The leaders who eventually replace him are likely to be as bad or worse. More importantly, the Iraq war prevented us from dealing with more serious threats, like finishing the job in Afghanistan, killing bin Laden, and preventing North Korea and Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The cost in money, troop availability, and international clout has made the world far less safe. The old process of keeping Iraq "in the box" was working, although the "oil for food" program needed to be taken out of the hands of both Iraq and the corrupt UN officials. Perhaps it could have been run by NATO, with oil funds paying for food, meds, and reparations for the first Iraq war.
			== Period ==
	:::And, of course, if we were committed to invading Iraq and setting up a democratic government, we should have done it the right way. The total incompetence of ] and the Bush admin in running this war is unforgivable. They have made nothing but mistakes, from failing to provide troops to prevent looting, firing the existing Iraqi army, the ] scandal, excessive reliance on contractors like ] and ]/] (the ones who sent the four men into ] to be killed and dragged through the streets), their stance on "enemy combatants", and spying on phone calls in the US without getting warrants. I think the prisoners should be treated as POWs, which means they would be imprisoned until the war on terrorism is won, which will likely be never. ] 09:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			I'm sitting here wondering if all that, at RDL and the talk page, would have been avoided if I had simply ignored the comment from Dodger67. If I accomplished nothing but stirring the pot, I apologize. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 16:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
	:::As for what to do in Iraq now, I'd partition the country (I've said this for quite some time now), move US troops to a few, very well protected bases, where they can engage in operations against al Queda and be called in when Iraqi troops are about to be overrun, but not engage in operations against insurgents or in normal patrols. At this point, Rumsfeld and Bush have allowed it to become a civil war, and we can't do anything about that, the "cat is out of the bag". ] 09:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Well, I appreciate it, anyway. Jayron never misses an opportunity to make a personal attack on me, amazing behavior for an Admin. I chose not to engage on either page, as that will just give them more opportunities for personal attacks. There seem to be a large number of people at the Ref Desk whose main purpose is to attack others, whether posters or responders. They all need to be more tolerant, and have a sense of humor. If the Ref Desk was as dull as they want to make it, I suspect it would die, because few would be interested in responding in their grey, boring world. ] (]) 18:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
	::::You make some very good points. One thing I've never understood is why it's considered so unthinkable for Iraq to be divided up into more homogeneous states. A Shiitistan in the south, a Sunnistan in the middle, and a Kurdistan in the north (of course Turkey would be really pissed off with that one, but then again, just as they've managed to live with an independent Armenia, they'll have to learn to live with an independent Kurdistan).
			== Ptolemaic numbers ==
	::::I still don't agree though that the Iraq war in any way "overstretched" the US military. Especially when it comes to killing bin Laden. I really don't know why he hasn't been found yet, but I certainly don't buy the argument that the 150-200k troops diverted to Iraq made any difference. The kind of operation required to hunt down and kill the guy isn't one that requires hundreds of thousands of troops. Rather, it's all about the gathering sufficient intelligence and the training of relatively small elite commando units. Bin Laden, if and when he's (hopefully, finally) killed, it won't be by a tomahawk missile, but rather from the bullet of an Uzi or an AK-47.
			Many thanks for your answer, which opened up several other interesting sidelines! I came to the conclusion that the original context must have meant Greek numbers, pity they didn't say Greek instead of Ptolemaic but it does sound more interesting / mysterious this way. Followed up Ancient Egyptian and Latin but they wouldn't work in the context:
	::::Anyway, we can go on and on about this, and of course we'll have plenty of little disagreements about the tactics of how this and that should have been gone about, but I think it's fair to say that we're of the same mind when it comes to our overall view. ] 02:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			http://www.artisandice.com/order/kanji-and-runic-d20s/
			Yes, this is the inoffensive link which caused me to start hunting. I really appreciate such an expanded and encompassing answer. It's a win!
			] (]) 04:57, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
			:You're quite welcome ! ] (]) 13:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
	:::::When bin Laden was trapped in ], we could have captured or killed him had we put enough troops between him and the ] border to prevent his escape. Instead, we left the border unguarded, and he slipped away. The reason for this is that we were starting to redeploy our troops to ] and no longer had sufficient manpower in ] to do what needed to be done. ] 09:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			==Ref==
	From our ] article:
			Needed here ] (] · ] · ]) 05:06, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
			:If you go to his article, you should find all the refs you need. ] (]) 05:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
	''Former ] officer ], who led the CIA team in Afghanistan that was tasked with locating Osama bin Laden, claims in his ] book '']'' that he and his team had pinpointed the location of Osama bin Laden. Also according to Berntsen, a number of al-Qaeda detainees later confirmed that bin Laden had escaped Tora Bora into Pakistan via an easternly route through snow covered mountains in the area of ], Pakistan. He also claims that bin Laden could have been captured if ] had committed the troops that Berntsen had requested. Former CIA agent ] concurs with this view. seem to confirm this account.'' ] 09:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
	== Discuss, don't vote ==		== Pay attention ==
			You do realize, of course, that the editor involved has been blocked indefinitely, that the question is not a request for references, and that the link will not go anywhere once the items are archived, so the clutter will serve no purpose whatsoever? Can you please explain why this material should be retained for any ref desk reason? ] (]) 01:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
	You may want to have a look at ]. I think you're confusing the majority votes you've been conducting with consensus. ] ] 20:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
	:Since you and a couple other Admins pretty much oppose anything we do on the Ref Desk, the majority is the best we can ever hope to get. And, I didn't see anyone argue against the template when it was implemented, so we did indeed have consensus, at that time. If you want to remove it, you need to get consensus to do so. ] 20:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)		:It will remain in the archives as a record of what occurred, and is far more accessible there than if we needed to look through the history to try to find it in the future. But none of this really matters, as there was no valid reason given for a deletion. Having a dead link in no way qualifies as a good reason. ] (]) 01:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
			::StuRat is spot on. ] (]) 09:34, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
	::When have I ever told you I was an admin, and why does this matter? You seem to think there are admins throwing their weight around, but I don't see it. I'm hardly opposed to "anything" people do at the ref desk- there's a lot of good work going on there. I agree with some things on the talk page, and I disagree with other things- this is normal. I'm made quite an effort to explain to everyone, and specifically to you personally, where I'm coming from and why I think what I think. I realize I'm far from a perfect communicator, but I'm doing my best. As to the point above (which really belongs on ]) there's active disagreement over this going on at the talk page ''right now''- this means we don't have a good consensus. ] ] 21:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			:{{ping|Medeis}} Re the link, you can wait until the target has been archived and then modify the link to either a wikilink or a ] to the section on the archive page. It takes less than a minute, no fuss, no muss. Whatever the arguments involved here, the link shouldn't be one of them. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 10:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
	:::You've had that item there for 2.5 hours, and now, just because you and one other Admin want it removed, you want to ignore the previous consensus, cut the conversation short and do as you please. This is unacceptable. ] 21:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
	::::Alright, I think you're disagreeing with me just because it's me. I can only recommend you read ]. I'm bowing out- I've already tried my best to explain where I'm coming from. ] ] 21:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Latin ==
	::Er, can't speak for everyone else, but the most recent thread on the Ref Desk talk page is the first that I even noticed that the {{tl|strict}} template even existed. I can't be on Misplaced Pages ''all'' the time, after all. (It looks like the discussion mentioning it was inadvertently archived very soon after the template was announced.) I'm not trying to do some sort of end run around consensus, but I don't think that there really was a clear consensus established to begin with. Sometimes it's a good idea to let these proposals simmer for a bit longer before jumping in and adding them to a high traffic page.
	::I would appreciate it if you didn't cast this debate as some sort of holy war between the good and fun loving gnomes of the Ref Desk and the big evil admins who want to suck all joy out of helping others. For the record, I'm a big evil admin who happens to help out a fair bit on the Ref Desk (and I enjoy doing it), and I think you're doing yourself a disservice, StuRat, by drawing a line between yourself and the 'Admins'. Much obliged. ](]) 21:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			Hi Sturat, can you please add your reference to your answer about the use of Latin being linked to democracy (here )? Thanks. ] (]) 20:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
	::Please, note that it's considered bad form to send out personal invitations to a discussion ''only'' to people you believe agree with you. All the interested parties probably have the talk page watchlisted by now. If you're concerned that an issue isn't getting broad enough exposure, there are several places ] ] ]. Not only do you not have to worry about people feeling left out, you also don't risk giving the impression that you're trying to stack the discussion. Cheers, ](]) 21:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			:It sounds like you misunderstood my use of the word. I didn't mean democratic forms of government, per se, but rather "the little guy having more say in the world". The form of government is one way that can happen, but also technology changes like the internet now allow everyone to have a say (for example, by rating businesses), whereas only a few in the media had a voice before. To look at one example, let's say your lawyer throws Latin phrases at you rather than say them in simple English (say "]" versus "an order to charge or release the prisoner"). You can leave a review of that lawyer that says he does that, and find another lawyer who doesn't, all using the internet. Eventually that lawyer will learn to use simple English or lose all his clients. ] (]) 20:28, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
	:::I've noticed that, whenever an Admin wants his way, several other Admins who happen to agree with them show up, so this is my attempt to counter that tendency. ] 21:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			== ISIS ==
	::::Believe it or not, we don't have secret red telephones and clattering and telexes that ''ding'' whenever someone, somewhere on Misplaced Pages, happens to hold an opinion that differs from that of an admin. Jimbo doesn't shine a ] on the sky so that we can throw on our capes and defend the honour of the administrative brotherhood. Honest. 'Twould be a bit silly, wouldn't it?
	::::I hope you don't think that as soon as someone gets an admin bit, they are magically transformed into some sort of callous dickhead, out to ruin everyone's fun. For what it's worth, I think you've made some good efforts trying to deal with the Ref Desk issues. I want you to enjoy contributing, and I've seen you be a very good contributor for a long time. In the case of the {{tl|strict}} template I don't think it will work and I've provided my reasoning; it's nothing personal. I wish the assumption of bad faith would stop.
	::::I've been participating in these discussions in good faith. I'm not interested in making them personal, as you and Friday are in danger of doing. I've been offering my honest opinions and doing my level best to ensure that the Ref Desk is friendly and useful. Please don't try to stack discussions or romanticise this into some sort of noble uprising against the ]. All it does is poison the atmosphere, and it means that any 'consensus' that comes out of a manipulated process won't stand.
	::::I don't believe that the two of us hold opinions that are as widely divergent as you think, and I hope you can stop treating me (and even Friday) as a hopelessly craven enemy, to be defeated at all costs. ](]) 22:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			Why on God's green earth did you feel the need to <s>restore</s> respond to that troll's speculations about biological warfare? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 18:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	:::::I've seen posts on the Admin Noticeboard asking for "assistance on the Ref Desk", followed by an influx of deletionists Admins here. Also, we have requests from ] for help from "like minded individuals", like this one: . ] 22:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			:It didn't look like trolling to me. I can certainly understand how someone might think "We defeated millions of enemies in WW2, so why can't we easily defeat a few thousand crazies ?". I haven't seen it explained on the news, either. So, I explained it. ] (]) 20:56, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	:::::I don't mind if others have differing opinions, but trying to stop us from forming a consensus, by saying it's "illegal under Misplaced Pages rules" or such nonsense, or attempting to declare "no consensus" after 2.5 hours, as ] does, I do object to. Another admin, ], just deleted a consensus vote entirely. Then there were those pair of deletionist sockpuppets, one of which was unblocked by ] (and is known by ]), then reblocked by another Admin. Do you see yet why I am getting a bit suspicious of certain Admins ? I would very much like to spend more time answering actual questions, but every time I leave the Ref Desk:Talk Page, Friday is up to some other mischief. I also feel I should be monitoring his edits on the Ref Desk, to see what else he is deleting and not telling us about. ] 22:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
			::I almost never see eye-to-eye with user Fgf10, and we both agree it's trolling. The IP would be blocked already except the admins are asleep at the switch at AIV. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	==Hemingway==
			:::I will give them the benefit of the doubt until then. ] (]) 21:32, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	OOPS... how do you do a blushing smiley? :P Maybe you could program something, lol. I'm just a poor high-school gradute exchange student who hasn't read hemingway, or program computers (although give me some time and decent photo editing program...), so i don't know who it could be... but you know what would be awesome? If it actually was Hemingway :P ] 11:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::Who, the IP? Read his so-called contributions for today. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:35, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	:LOL, yea, that would be quite a coincidence. ] 11:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::::The IP is now blocked. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	== Voting ==
			:::::I evaluate the Q, not the OP. If the Q seems reasonable, I answer it. Now if the OP gets banned, I will respect that, but I don't intend to start looking through all the contibutions of every OP before deciding if I will answer their Q. ] (]) 21:41, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	Do you plan to continue calling for votes on things, then? If so, I have a couple questions: 1) are you aware of the established practice here at Misplaced Pages that we try to avoid votes? 2) Do you see a reason to generally follow established practice, or do you think it's better to generally go against established practice? 3) Have you read the explanations about why voting produces poorer results than a discussion? Do you agree or disagree that this is the case? 4) Do you think that other Wikipedians, looking at the voting that's going into your proposed policy page, will recognize the result as being legitimate? ] ] 18:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::::Fortunately, others will. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:44, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
	:1) I've seen votes in many places, such as when an article is nominated for deletion.
			: Thanks for answering my question. Hats off to you for breaking the mold around here and helping a questioner.
	:2) Some established practices may apply to the Ref Desk, while any project can also come up with their own practices to supplement those general rules which aren't applicable to that project.
			== Pissing against the wall ==
	:3) Voting is all that's left when you have one or more obstructionist individuals who will fight everything you do. Otherwise, that one individual or group could obstruct the will of the larger group.
			You asked:
	:4) Yes.
			<small>I wonder if it meant "males over a certain age", as male babies wouldn't be able to "piss against the wall". I also wonder why the translators chose the word "piss", versus "urinate", which comes from Latin and is considered the more refined choice. ] (]) 14:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC) </small>
	:] 18:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			:<small>I don't know if the phrase means to exclude babies but in general it is considered to include even young children. I kind of doubt that babies would be excluded though because the purpose was to eradicate the male line altogether. Maybe one should not understand the present "pisseth" too literally. Biblical Hebrew finite tenses and verbal adjectives have, as far as I know, more imprecise temporal implications than English (or Modern Hebrew) equivalents. The so called verbal aspect is as important. Maybe "a pisser against the wall" would be closer to the meaning of the Hebrew (see, btw, Wycliffe's translation below). Because the Hebrew word that is translated by "pisseth" is a verbal adjective, not a finite tense, it can mean "a pisser", i.e. someone whose nature it is to (maybe not today but one day) urinate against the wall. As to your second question, some of the more recent translators do use "urinate" and some forgo the metaphor altogether and put instead some such equivalent as "male" or "male child" etc. As to why the KJV uses "piss" instead of "urinate" I don't know. Maybe "urinate" was not yet commonly used in English. EtymOnline gives 1590s for that word but maybe it was still specialized medical terminology. The oldest translations all seem to use a derivative of "piss". Wycliffe's Bible has . Since Wycliffe's is translated not from the Hebrew but from the Latin Vulgate I would assume that ] too picked an earthy Latin word to translate the Hebrew (but I have not checked the text of the Vulgate). Amazingly ] (literal!) uses "sitting on the wall" (!) which is completely wrong. But what do you expect from a Victorian translation? In any case the earthiness of "piss" is not meant to reflect any connotation of the word in Hebrew, I don't think, since the word used is the only one for urinating (in Biblical Hebrew). This said, the Hebrew Bible does uses circumlocutions for some bodily functions, e.g. it is said to use "covers his feet" for "defecates" for example in 1 Samuel 24:4 (<big><big>לְהָסֵ֣ךְ אֶת־רַגְלָ֑יו</big></big>) (in fact, as far as I know, no root for "defecating" has come down to us from Biblical Hebrew, or at least not in the text of the Bible), but I don't completely understand this because this is not a verb that is used in Modern Hebrew for "covers". In any case maybe the use in Hebrew of the literal word for "urinating", especially in this phrase, instead of a circumlocution, is, after all, a popular, earthy idiom used on purpose, for stylistic reasons, by the (highly sophisticated) writers of these texts. Some day I will try to see if this Hebrew root for "urinating" is used in the Bible other than in this specific idiom.</small> <small><span style="font-family:Courier New;color:#C0C0C0">Contact</span> ] ]</small> 17:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
	::1) could use some additional explanation. One of the duties of an admin is to close Afd discussions (not votes). In doing so, they are ''expected'' to consider the weight of the arguments with respect to Misplaced Pages's goal and policies, and not do simple nose-counting. If we used simple vote counting, there'd be no need for human judgment in interpreting the results, and we most definitely ''do'' depend on human judgment there. I can see why people looking at Afd get the impression that it's a vote- we see this all the time. No offense, but it's ''painfully'' apparent that you're not very familiar with many aspects of what we do here. So, would you consider being ''less rabid'' about doing things your own unique way? There are generally decent reasons for established practice. ] ] 18:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::We've had many excellent arguments made for each of the points of view and come up with a consensus for each, after much compromise. This is the wiki process, no matter how many times you try to discredit it. ] 19:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)		::Yes, perhaps when they said "defile" they meant "urinate" (could be "defecate", too). "Cover the feet" seems like a bizarre euphemism for defecate. They don't mean "cover the feet with feces" I hope. Maybe they just meant putting on shoes, in order to go outside to defecate ? ] (]) 17:36, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
			:::I'm sure it is not "cover the feet with feces", and not only because that would be gross {{P}} and entirely out of character with the habits of primitive people and in any case would take some doing given the standard squatting position which was general before the invention of the toilet seat. It is unthinkable that defecating on your own feet would have been such a standard modus operandi as to give rise to a phrase, even if it could conceivably occur as an accident to a particularly clumsy or hurried crapper. However that doesn't get us close to the origin of the phrase. If the ancient Hebrews had worn pants I could imagine "covering your feet" meant pulling down your pants. (This, btw, reminds me of a particularly funny scene in "]") But they didn't. A robe on the other hand would be more likely to be pulled up than pulled down. Maybe the ancient Hebrews wore some kind of underwear, even if it was just a piece of rag, and that was pulled down and "covered the feet" so to speak, even though you'd better cover only the front of your feet, for obvious reasons. I'll ask someone who knows Biblical Hebrew well. <small><span style="font-family:Courier New;color:#C0C0C0">Contact</span> ] ]</small> 20:12, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
	== Enemies ==
			::::This reminds me of something interesting I heard on the radio last night. Apparently an estimated 550,000 people in India still defecate outdoors. They seem to prefer it, even when an outhouse is available (I would guess because of the smell). But, as you can imagine, this leads to the spread of disease, and sure doesn't do much for tourism. So, the local governments have started using "walls of shame", where they snap pics of offenders "in the act" and post them in town. That seems to be having the desired effect. :-) ] (]) 20:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
	Please, please ''please'' try to stop seeing those who disagree with you as enemies. These people who you keep saying are "obstructing everything you do" are trying to ''help'' you. Have you noticed the help you've gotten with ], ''even from those who disagree that such a page is needed''? ] ] ] 19:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::::Good thing they don't put it on the net, Instagram or Flickr {{P}} I've often wondered why homo sapiens is so poorly equipped for mass communal defecation {{P}} When you see those seal colonies or penguin colonies or any seabird colony with millions of animals all happily defecating next to each other (try to imagine that) without any adverse effect (I'm not sure about the seals and sea lions, maybe they do it in the sea) it makes you wonder. (Do you know what the ] in Peru is? There's literally mountains of that stuff!) It is true cats are also very particular. It seems, as far as that is concerned, homo sapiens behaves more like a cat or a tiger or a predatory animal, than a social animal like a monkey ought to. I've got only two cats, but if I don't clean their litter box everyday its a revolution. I'm basically my cats' tattiwallah (or whatever that is called in India). Ok, I have to take out the turds everyday, but I've got three or four days to change the litter. But, seriously, only about half a million people? That sounds to me like a huge underestimate. The and put it at more like 600 million. Besides hygiene and tourism there is that of domestic animals, such as dogs, eating the feces, and if it's too far from the village, the problem of attacks by wild animals, of scorpions, snakes, etc, and for women, the danger of rape, especially if done after dark. Btw, it's not always the fault of the people practicing it given the ghastly state of public toilets. I'm sure there are technical solutions to this problem (which is a problem in India and elsewhere, see article ]). In my opinion, at least in the countryside, one has to start by having every family have their own toilet (preferably a ]) of which they take care personally as opposed to public toilets. Relying on public toilets and professional "toilet cleaners" especially those belonging to a specialized caste who operate with minimal technology is bound to fail and the toilets will remain in that horrible state that drives people to prefer open defecation. Every family in the countryside should take care of its own toilet. In the cities, though, you have to have public toilets of course, and the problem is different. Paradoxically it seems the problem, at least in India, is more acute in the countryside. <small><span style="font-family:Courier New;color:#C0C0C0">Contact</span> ] ]</small> 21:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
	:As I've said many times now, I have no problem with those who participate in the process to form a consensus, even if they disagree with me, and even if I must compromise (or surrender) on an issue of mine. I do, however, have a huge problem with those who try ever trick in the book to try to undermine those consensus discussions. ] 19:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::::Yes, I missed a set of zeroes. That's 550 million. As for other animals, I think it does spread disease and shorten lifespans, this being one reason why most animals live longer in captivity, since we clean up the manure. ] (]) 22:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
	::So, as long as votes are held, you're happy with abiding by majority rule? ] ] 19:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			* A documentary on bathroom repair in ancient Israel {{P}} <small><span style="font-family:Courier New;color:#C0C0C0">Contact</span> ] ]</small> 11:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
	:::Sounds like a setup, are you planning on bringing in a dozen Admin ringers to tilt the vote ? ] 19:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Hey Sturat ==
	::::No, I dislike voting because I think discussion works better. I was trying to understand what you would see as "consensus", because so far it appears that majority votes are the only thing you're willing to accept. ] ] 19:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			The issue I presented at Refdesk\Computing wasn't really resolved after all... It's wired, please see there. Would thank you dearly, Ben. ] (]) 00:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
	:::::Not true, there are some items where there is no dispute, so there really isn't a need for a vote. For example, one editor suggested that any opinions should be clearly identified as such. I couldn't see how anyone could object to that, so agreed immediately. If, however, somebody does disagree, then we can call for a vote to gauge the consensus more formally. ] 20:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
			<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].
			The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
	I think we may be at an intractable impasse here. I've no wish to belabor the point, despite having probably already done so. All I can say is, a majority vote that ignores the objections of others isn't what we call consensus here. I cannot recommend strongly enough that you read ]. ] ] 20:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> –&nbsp;] 21:47, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
	::OK, I've read it, and it says that a supermajority may be used to gauge whether a consensus has been achieved, especially when dealing with stubborn individuals who refuse to compromise. That's exactly what we've done here. ] 20:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			== stool thread ==
	:I'm willing to discuss any new objections, but just repeating the same objections which have already been discussed ] serves no purpose. ] 20:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC) ] 20:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
			Stu, if you check that IP's contributions, you'll see that the thread you restored was already posted and is already being discussed on the misc desk also. —] (]) 02:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
	== Please, don't make personal attacks. ==
			:I see. The Science Desk seems like the proper place for it. I suggest cross links and/or moving one. ] (]) 03:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
	Do you really think is helpful at all? ] - ] 17:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Re: Losing fat without aerobic exercise or eating excess protein ==
	:If it convinces him to stop being delete-happy and block-happy, then yes, it is helpful. ] 17:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			According to ], you mentioned "Surprisingly, eating fats don't seem to make you gain fat", is there any reference about that? Thanks. ] (]) 09:57, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
	:: Attempting to harass other users will not end well. Please stop. ] - ] 17:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			: cites several studies. The main problem with low-fat diets is that they tend to replace the missing fats with increase carbs, including bad carbs like refined sugar and white flour. Those cause a sugar spike followed by an insulin spike followed by converting that blood sugar into body fat. ] (]) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
	:::It wasn't harassment and he's not a user, he's an Admin. ] 17:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)] 17:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			== was this nasty? ==
	:::: Admins are nothing but users with buttons. Given that it's intended goal is to make friday do something, rather than do something to the reference desk, don't you think the right place for it us ]? Given that I think it was a harassing personal attack, don't you think it's likely that other observers see it as such? I suggest you focus on the topic at hand - comment on the content, not the contributors. ] - ] 17:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			am I being
	:::::It's difficult to make any progress on content while Friday (and a few other Admins) are actively working to block progress. ] 17:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			But I am right, am I? I have had it with these people, what do they think the internet is? ] (]) 21:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
			:You should try to be more patient. I would have just stated that I doubt if anyone would get enjoyment out of that and ask if they can provide any sources that prove otherwise. ] (]) 21:10, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
	:::::: I suspect they would say the same about you - the only difference is, they don't, so they get to look like they are working on a solution and you look like you are making personal attacks. Perhaps you should focus on getting to yes instead of beating the other guy. ] - ] 17:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			::I toned it down a bit for less drama ] (]) 23:09, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
	:::::::He does indeed engage in personal attacks, such as "Why don't you kids go play someplace else? ] ] 22:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)" in the section "HRT" above. Then there are the constant statements that we are all ignorant and "don't understand how things work around here". And, of course, there could be nothing more insulting to a Ref Desk volunteer than the statement that the Ref Desk is worthless and should be deleted (he claimed to have retracted it, after stating it on the Ref Desk talk page, but we just don't believe him anymore after finding he repeated the same thing on his own page). ] 09:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Control F ==
	:I will ''generally'' have a high tolerance for such stuff- in fact I've invited StuRat specifically to flame me on my talk page ''if he must'', rather than sprinkling it over other pages where it's not relevant, see ]. I'd rather have no flames at all, but I make a clear distinction between attacks and criticisms of someone's behavior. I will endure a certain amount of unpleasantness provided there's relevant criticism bundled with it as well. ] ] 17:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			Re. your post , I now have the same problem after chrome updated when I did a weekly re-boot on one of my devises (PC). Thought I let you know. Cheers, ] (]) 14:55, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
	:: I do not. Broken windows cause crime. See also ]. ] - ] 17:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Thanks. At least if it's something they did, we can have some hope they will fix it, too. Seems like there's a logical problem that both the search pop-up window and the window to be searched need to be "on top" for it to work, but only one can be on top at a time. Not sure how they ever got around this. ] (]) 18:04, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
	== No personal attacks, ever. ==
			::Yes, it's them who screwed up. So now at least you know there is nothing more for you to do other than waiting and hoping for a fix soon to be implemented ;) ] (]) 18:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
	Your edit summary , in addition to being wrong (Radient deleted the section, not I) was a personal attack. Unlike others you have dealt with, I will not allow this continue. Do not make another personal attack against me ever. ] - ] 12:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			== Come on, Stu ==
	:Merely moving your attack to Radient is not acceptable. Please review ]. If you are honestly accusing either of us of acting to damage the encyclopedia, my discussions with you are over. ] - ] 12:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			looks personal. Not how you usually operate. Come on, for consistency's sake you could probably create volumes of such diffs for a majority of users (including User:Stu Rat). ... ---] ] 23:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
	There are specific Misplaced Pages rules for what may, and what may not, be deleted. With the exception of article pages, where anyone can delete anything if they personally feel it's not needed in the article, deletions are meant to be rarely used on other pages, and only for severe problems like "disruption". Listing a set of deletion guidelines agreed to by the majority who discussed the issue, is in no way "disruption". Therefore, deletion of those rules, without consensus to do so, is a violation of Misplaced Pages policy, or "vandalism". My saying so is not a personal attack, it's a statement of fact. I am sorry, however, that I got your name confused with his, and fixed it as best as I can. ] 13:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			:Yes, but Jayron is the chief hyprocrite, and I intend to have links handy the next time he asks for refs on something completely obvious (thus not requiring refs). My links will have cases where a link is really needed, but Jayron refused to provide them. I may very well add other editors refusals to provide links to the list, if they start launching hypocritical attacks like Jayron has. ] (]) 00:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
	: Thank you. You will find that my ignoring your comments means not that I don't get to speak my piece, but rather that you don't get listened to. ] - ] 13:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			== revert ==
	::You certainly are free to ignore my comments if you wish, as I am free to ignore yours. ] 13:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			reintroduced a bunch of archived content which the bot dutifully archived a second time. So now it may be in the archives twice; I don't have time (or battery life on this chargerless laptop tonight) to investigate further. --] (]) 03:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
	==StuRat==
			:Sorry, I was trying to fix the revert before that, which seemed to have inadvertently deleted all that, as well as restoring other material. Did the archiving and his revert all get combined into a single edit somehow ? ] (]) 03:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
	You do realize you're being set up to be blocked? -] 13:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			:: Not sure. I'll look at it some more tonight. --] (]) 16:26, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
	:Yes, I'm sure you're right. I will be careful to avoid a ] violation. There are more of us who work by consensus than those who wish to change the guidelines without consensus, however, so, as long as we are careful, they should violate that policy before us or back off. I've also called for help from Admin Zoe, who seems impartial in this matter. ] 14:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			::: It looks to me like the revert before yours was proper, and did not need reverting.
	::Not just the 3RR but see sections above and below this one. -] 14:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::* . at 17:12 on November 11, basically reverted back to 14:31 on November 9, after the bot archived November 1 but before it archived November 2. So it restored three days' worth of archived content, and deleted everything that had been added since
			:::* . at 17:18, perfectly reverted the previous, deleting the re-added archived content and restoring the deleted content
			:::* but then re-restored the archived content. --] (]) 04:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
			::::: Archives finally cleaned up. (I don't know ''what'' {{user|5.81.235.234}} has been up to. --] (]) 03:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
	:::Point taken. They have now pulled in another person to do nonconsensus edits of the guidelines page. Will you please revert this last one ? Be sure to keep it to just two reverts, though (although I think 3 just gets a warning, and 4 gets a block). ] 14:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			::::::OK, thanks. ] (]) 05:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
			== Regarding... ==
			- when are you going to start paying attention to what's going on? Do that kind of thing one too many times, and someone's going to suggest banning you from the ref desks. Don't let it get to that point, please. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 20:12, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
			:His edit summary just said "(Reverted edits by 80.44.165.173 (talk) to last version by Paulscrawl)". Absolutely no mention that he was reverting a banned user. We can't be expected to read minds. ] (]) 06:04, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
			::The revert came 2 minutes AFTER the IP was blocked for block evasion. No mind-reading about it. When an admin reverts without comment, it behooves you to pay attention to what's going on. Before you think about re-reverting, check to see if the reverted user is blocked. If you're not in the habit of doing that, you had best start. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 10:03, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
			:::I had no idea that was an Admin, I've never seen him before, And it's not our responsibility to research a revert to try to figure out the motivation behind it, which could take every editor who looks at it quite some time, it's the responsibility of the person doing the revert to state the reason explicitly in the edit summary, which takes one person 30 seconds. ] (]) 16:27, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
			:::: Sorry, Stu, you're wrong here. And this is the same case as the one ].
			:::: When you looked at the history before the revert you made, you would have seen this:
			::::: &bull; (cur | prev) 18:51, 14 November 2015 Elockid (talk | contribs) '''m''' . . (86,079 bytes) <font color="red">(-5,611)</font> . . (Reverted edits by 80.44.165.173 (talk) to last version by Paulscrawl) (undo | thank)
			::::: &bull; (cur | prev) 18:50, 14 November 2015 80.44.165.173 (talk) . . (91,690 bytes) <font color="green">(+5,611)</font> . . (For the lowdown on Future Perfect at Sunset see User talk:Dweller#Shenanigans at the reference desk.) (undo)
			::::: &bull; (cur | prev) 17:49, 14 November 2015 Paulscrawl (talk | contribs) . . (86,079 bytes) <font color="green">(+164)</font> . . (&rarr;Dali's Mustache (St. Petersburg): Which artist?: and the name is ... ?) (undo | thank)
			:::: Now, look at those numbers. +5,611, -5,611. It sure looks like Elockid reverted the immediately-previous edit by 80.44.165.173. This sort of thing happens all the time. It is ''your job'' to make the determination whether Elockid or 80.44.165.173 was the vandal, perhaps by clicking on the diff links. Yes, this is a nuisance and takes a little more time. But if you fail to do so, then vandals such as 80.44.165.173 will trick you into doing their work for them, which is exactly what happened here.
			:::: This pattern happens a lot. The vandal picks an old version, edits it, and submits it. The edit therefore looks like (as you were asking me about earlier) a combination of deletions and insertions. Any insertions between the old and the current version get deleted, but any deletions between the old and the current version (such as done by the archiving bot, or by other vandal fighters, etc.) get re-inserted.
			:::: It's absolutely fine to do a simple revert of such an edit, as Elockid did, simultaneously restoring the deleted content, re-deleting any improperly-restored content, and deleting the vandal's addition. (And please don't blame Elockid for not supplying the edit comment you wish they had, because vandals have figured that out, too, and will use edit comments like "rvv" when they're ''committing'' vandalism, in hopes of tricking gullible editors like you into supporting them.)
			:::: You're not helping the project when you unrevert vandal-fighting reversions in cases like these. It probably took me an hour, spread out over several days, to clean up the mess that resulted after the last time you did this (when your unreverted content stuck around long enough to get archived a second time). If you can't be bothered to be a bit more careful when fighting vandals, please leave the work to people who can. —] (]) 15:03, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
			:::::Please explain to me why the Admin failing to write "Reverting banned editor" was a good decision on his part. As for me, I did look at the changes, and didn't see anything obviously wrong with the content. That, in combination with a deletion with no explanation given, by somebody I never saw before, made it look like that was the vandalism. ] (]) 16:13, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
			::::::It has been discussed over and over and over again, on the talk page, that when reverting trolls, it is best to be as low-key as possible. Your unwillingness to look at these situations serves to feed the trolls. ''Please stop feeding the trolls.'' Look at the contribs of the two editors and find out what's going on before you draw conclusions or take action. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:26, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
			:::::: As far as I know, the "Reverted edits by xxx to last version by yyy" edit summary is the default one provided by Undo or Rollback or one of the other similar streamlined reversion tools. As far as I know, there is no requirement that users tweak the default message (and I believe that's especially true when one is mopping up after vandalism in a hurry). I know that, when I use these tools, I don't always take time to tweak the default message. I know that, when I see these default messages in edit histories, I tend to assume they're vandalism reversion.
			:::::: It's fine to wish that people routinely did more in terms of edit summaries on reversions, but I think policy and common practice are currently against you. —] (]) 04:24, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
			== Detroit sidewalks ==
			]
			Since you answered my sidewalks-in-Detroit question at WP:RDH several weeks ago, I thought you might be amused/saddened/somethingelse by looking at this image, taken in ] when I made another Detroit photo trip a couple of weeks ago. No money for most things, but they've just put in ] on these never-going-to-be-used sidewalks. ] (]) 21:16, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
			:My guess is that they got a Federal grant to do that. That's good for Detroit in that they aren't diverting other funds needed badly to rebuild Detroit, and presumably employing Detroiters to install them, but of course bad in the big picture, in that the Federal government should spend the taxpayer's money more wisely. Hopefully something will be built there eventually and they will be put to good use. ] (]) 01:07, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
			== This trolling speaks for itself Stu. See the current discussions at both Talk and ANI ==
			*(cur | prev) 14:31, 22 November 2015‎ Favonian (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,882 bytes) (-1,184)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 190.237.42.153 (talk) to last version by Future Perfect at Sunrise) updated since my last visit (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 14:30, 22 November 2015‎ 190.237.42.153 (talk)‎ . . (68,066 bytes) (+1,184)‎ . . (Undid revision 691872456 by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk)) updated since my last visit (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 14:22, 22 November 2015‎ Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk | contribs)‎ . . (66,882 bytes) (-1,184)‎ . . (rv proxying for block-evading troll) updated since my last visit (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 14:22, 22 November 2015‎ StuRat (talk | contribs)‎ . . (68,066 bytes) (+142)‎ . . (→‎Car 'hood' and cold weather.) updated since my last visit (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 14:14, 22 November 2015‎ StuRat (talk | contribs)‎ . . (67,924 bytes) (+366)‎ . . (→‎Black Brutality) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 14:11, 22 November 2015‎ StuRat (talk | contribs)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691870427 by Medeis (talk) Is there a specific ban on this user somewhere at ANI ? If so, link to that ban.) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 14:06, 22 November 2015‎ Medeis (talk | contribs)‎ . . (66,740 bytes) (-818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691870178 by 178.33.138.104 (talk) see WP:ANI) (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 14:04, 22 November 2015‎ 178.33.138.104 (talk)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691836105 by Nil Einne (talk)) (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 09:27, 22 November 2015‎ Elockid (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,740 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Changed protection level of Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Miscellaneous: Persistent disruptive editing ( (expires 17:27, 22 November 2015 (UTC)) (indefinite))) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 09:26, 22 November 2015‎ Nil Einne (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,740 bytes) (-818)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 95.68.148.0 (talk) to last version by Nil Einne) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 09:23, 22 November 2015‎ 95.68.148.0 (talk)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691835663 by Nil Einne (talk)) (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 09:22, 22 November 2015‎ Nil Einne (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,740 bytes) (-818)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 125.2.114.28 (talk) to last version by Nil Einne) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 09:20, 22 November 2015‎ 125.2.114.28 (talk)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691835446 by Nil Einne (talk)) (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 09:20, 22 November 2015‎ Nil Einne (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,740 bytes) (-818)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 69.156.106.97 (talk) to last version by Nil Einne) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 09:11, 22 November 2015‎ 69.156.106.97 (talk)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+818)‎ . . (Undid revision 691827983 by Nil Einne (talk)) (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 07:53, 22 November 2015‎ Nil Einne (talk | contribs)‎ . . (66,740 bytes) (-818)‎ . . (→‎Black Brutality: blocked sock) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 05:56, 22 November 2015‎ Ghmyrtle (talk | contribs)‎ . . (67,558 bytes) (+96)‎ . . (→‎Black Brutality: ?) (undo | thank)
			*(cur | prev) 05:41, 22 November 2015‎ SineBot (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (67,462 bytes) (+282)‎ . . (Signing comment by 175.199.5.105 - "→‎Black Brutality: new section") (undo)
			*(cur | prev) 05:40, 22 November 2015‎ 175.199.5.105 (talk)‎ . . (67,180 bytes) (+440)‎ . . (→‎Black Brutality: new section) (undo)
			== ] ==
			{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 13:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
			<!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Mdann52/list&oldid=691995604 -->
			== Note 2 ==
			You're an island of calm in a sea of storms. Or have you not checked your talk page history in recent weeks? :) Have you thought of having your page semi'd? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 20:05, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
			:No need for that. I've just been ignoring it all. ] (]) 03:37, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
			::That's fine. You've got plenty of users watching out for you. :) ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 10:06, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
			StuRat, would you mind archiving your talkpage? You've got >200 threads on this page, spanning almost 10 years. ] ] 16:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
			== 2016 ==
			{| style="background-color: #FFFBC4; border: 8px solid #009600;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | <center>'''Happy New Year 2016!'''</center>
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |<center>'''Did you know ...''' that back in 1885, Misplaced Pages editors wrote Good Articles with ], ] and ]?<br />
			Thank you for your contributions to this encyclopedia using 21st century technology. I hope you don't get any unneccessary ].<br />
			&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;– ] ] 07:43, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! ] (]) 17:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for January 12==
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 09:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
			== You're requested to comment at ] as a party ==
			You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at ] and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted in most arbitration pages please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the ] and the ] may be of use.
			Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbcom notice --> --<span style="font-family:'Tahoma',Geneva,sans-serif">] <small>(] &#128214; ])</small></span> 09:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
			== Arbitration case request motions proposed ==
			There are two motions proposed (] and ]) regarding an ] where you are a named party. For the arbitration committee, ] <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;">] ]</sup> 13:06, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
			== Case request ==
			A ] has been enacted in lieu of a full case. For the Arbitration Committee, ]] 18:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
			== ani ==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
			== 83 - Russian questions ==
			I don't understand any of their questions. Maybe you mean that that one is even more incomprehensible than most. ] (]) 19:08, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
			:I can decipher most of them, but not that one. ] (]) 19:13, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
			::At least they are not a troll, just unable to communicate in English. ] (]) 19:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
			==Continuing off-topic debate==
			Keeping murders down to a minimum is good thing, and if severe penalties act as a worthwhile disincentive, well and good. Mind you, the most severe possible penalty is execution, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the death penalty is not a disincentive, which is at least part of the reason why most countries have abandoned it. And if the death penalty is no disincentive, why would any lesser penalty work either (assuming one considers spending 25 years to the rest of your life behind bars to be a lesser penalty than death). But let's leave that argument aside for now.
			:I believe those studies showed the death penalty was not a disincentive WHEN COMPARED WITH LONG PRISON TERMS. That is, both are about equal disincentives. (Some people prefer death over long prison sentences, some are the reverse.) ] (]) 22:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			The rest of what you say does not bear examination. As you always do, Stu, you've confected an argument in order not to have to change your position, or back down, or admit you misspoke.
			Having a severe penalty for murder (not to mention other high crimes) does '''''<u>not</u>''''' mean the law assumes all citizens to be potential murderers, and I challenge you to produce any evidence to say that it does.
			The law realises that human beings are imperfect and sometimes do things that are unacceptable to society, and when that happens, there has to be a system to deal with it. The crime must precede the response. Which is why if you go to the police and claim your neighbour is planning to murder you, they will demand evidence of actual threat, or actual plans to carry out such a deed, other than "He looked at me in a funny way". In no jurisdiction on Earth can someone be apprehended on the grounds that someone else believes they are intending to break some law, but without anything that would constitute evidence. So, no, the law does not assume everyone to be a potential murderer.
			Equally, just because there are penalties for corruption, insider trading and all the rest of it, does not mean that all people engaged in public affairs (including politicians, lawyers, judges, police, financial advisers, accountants, property developers, salespeople and on and on) are assumed to be potentially corrupt or dishonest. It's just that, if they do act in a corrupt or dishonest way, there's a price to be paid. Would you have it any other way? Sure, laws have been toughened and tightened to respond to the changing landscape, where new and creative ways to make a quick and dirty buck or gain/stay in power are always being dreamt up. Laws will surely continue to change. But this is a very far cry from the law assuming all politicians to be dishonest.
			If an individual wishes to take the position of distrusting all politicians, that is a matter for them. But that would be a very ill-thought out position to adopt, imo. You don't distrust your personal financial adviser / accountant / lawyer / doctor / dentist / car repairer just because '''''some''''' financial advisers etc have been known to be corrupt or act unprofessionally. Do you? You must lead a pretty sad life if you do. And just because you've managed to find a truly honest financial adviser etc, does not mean that all other people in these categories are dishonest. Or even that the majority are dishonest. Or anything remotely like that.
			I know, how about you distrust all human beings because, let's face it, all human beings are fallible and make mistakes and cause harm/pain to others. Best to be protected. Sounds like a plan. Good luck with it. The trick is, how do you manage to trust yourself, the only person on the planet worthy of your trust? -- ] </sup></span>]] 21:09, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:Actually, I do distrust all professionals:
			:1) I wouldn't give a blank check to a financial adviser or accountant. Would you ?
			::* I would never give a blank cheque to anyone, ever. Not because I distrust everyone, but because it's a really, really imprudent thing to do. Pieces of paper can sometimes land in the wrong hands, through no fault of the trusted person you gave it to. -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:2) I would get a 2nd opinion for any major procedure recommended by a doctor or dentist. Wouldn't you ?
			::* Not as a general rule, no. In a particular case, I might; but I've never had cause to do so thus far. -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:3) I wouldn't pay a garage fully, in advance, and would insist on a written estimate. Would you ?
			::* Who ever pays a garage in advance? Never heard of such a thing. For major work, any garage worth its salt would offer a written estimate without waiting to be asked; but I'd certainly ask if they didn't offer one. But that's not because I distrust them. If that were the case, I wouldn't be using their services to begin with. It's just that I might be able to get a better deal elsewhere, and a written quote could help to sway the deal. -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:Plus, there are penalties if they misbehave, from losing their license to operate to fines to prison time, so there is a disincentive for such behavior. If there were no legal checks on them, then I'd need to research each extremely thoroughly to determine which are the honest ones.
			::* That demolishes your own argument. You now acknowledge that NOT ALL professionals are dishonest, contrary to your statement above. But even if you take the position that they're all "would-be dishonest if only there weren't those pesky penalties", at the end of the day it's how they actually operate that matters to you. If they treat you in a honest and legal manner, you'd never know whether it's because (a) they're naturally honest and always act that way, or (b) they'd have rather ripped you off but they considered the risk was too great. Either way, you wouldn't care. Unless you're one of those people who suspect people's motives even when they're behaving completely appropriately. -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::*Everyone isn't dishonest, everyone is POTENTIALLY dishonest. Specifically, different people evaluate the risk of dishonesty versus reward equation differently. For some, they would cheat even if they had a 99% chance of being punished, while others wouldn't with even a 1% chance. Of course, the actual punishment matters, too. And I don't particularly care if they act honestly out of fear of getting caught if they are dishonest. All I care about is the result. An interesting fact is that many psychopaths don't go around murdering people, just because they are afraid of punishment. ] (]) 22:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:As for not arresting people for being potential murderers, of course not, since that's not illegal. There have been some cases where the police assumed somebody could not possibly be a murderer, due to their position in society (such as fellow police officers), only to be proven quite wrong.
			:I recently had a case of a minor fender-bender, with no visible damage, and the other guy later said he needed $600 in repairs. After I asked to see the estimate from the garage, and he never contacted me again. Would you have just paid up ? ] (]) 21:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			::* Obviously not. What does this have to do with what we're discussing? -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::*If I trusted everyone, I would have just paid him and not asked for proof. ] (]) 22:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::* Who ever said we should trust everyone? I never said anything like that.
			::::* It's wise to act prudently, and mitigate risks, and not unnecessarily expose oneself to risk, and insure one's property even against unlikely threats. But you're advocating distrusting ALL professionals, specifically ALL politicians. That is a completely different matter. -- ] </sup></span>]] 23:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::*I'm not seeing any difference. I don't trust random strangers because they are potentially dishonest. Whether you admit it or not, this is why you don't trust them either. ] (]) 23:35, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			{{deindent}} The relevant points you made at Entertainment Ref Desk were:
			* (John M Baker) If you believe that honest politicians don't exist, you ensure that they never will. You have to be willing and able to identify and reward honesty in politics. To refuse to do this is to work actively against honesty in the public sphere. ] (]) 19:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)}}
			* I disagree. If we assume them to be honest, they can get away with dishonesty. '''If we assume them to be dishonest''', and put in enough checks on them to counter this tendency, like ]s, ] laws with severe penalties, and ]s to protect those who turn them in, etc., then we can hopefully put in enough of a disincentive to dishonesty to get them to behave. ] (]) 20:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
			*'''What's Utopian about assuming the worst of politicians''' and taking actions to at least limit the damage they cause ? ] (]) 05:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
			Then you changed tack from "all politicians are dishonest" to "all politicians are potentially dishonest":
			* You asked "...does this mean that people are generally assumed to be murderers?". My answers is yes, we are all be assumed to be potential murderers, and thus we need to maintain a system where murderers are likely to be severely punished, in order to keep the number of murders down to a minimum. To continue your analogy with politicians, we should similarly maintain a system where corrupt politicians are likely to be severely punished, in order to keep the number of politicians who engage in corruption down to a minimum. ] (]) 17:37, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
			:*I assume all politicians to be dishonest, because they are all potentially dishonest. Maybe "assume" means something different in Oz. Here it doesn't mean that it is the case, just that you prepare as if it were. ] (]) 01:33, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::* If that's true, it can only be because all humans are potentially dishonest. It's not as if a previously honest person becomes instantly dishonest the moment they get elected to political office. But you talk as if this is a real possibility, from which you must protect yourself. -- ] </sup></span>]] 05:27, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::*Yes, all people are potentially dishonest, but certain professions, like used car salesman and politician, select for those who are dishonest. Just like a used car salesman that tells you everything that's wrong with the car and how little he paid for it won't make many sales, a politician who tells everyone he will raise taxes and lower benefits won't get many votes. There are also jobs that select against dishonesty. For example, I just had a waitress bring me a stained plate, and when I asked her for an unstained plate she said "they're all like that" and refused. I've eaten there before, and know they aren't all stained, so she got a minimal tip. ] (]) 17:09, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::* Well, you're doing what many people do, but about which you ought to know better: using single anecdotes to make a general case. That just does not stack up, and I know you know that. Look, I know it's a common thing to decry politicians, used car salesmen, lawyers etc as being the scum of the earth in the honesty stakes. ("How do you know when a politician's lying? ''When his lips are moving'' - that sort of thing.) But you talk as if this general perception is valid material to justify a belief and attitude that each and every individual politician is a lying corrupt scumbag. I know you know that is far from the truth. So, you're committing two errors: (1) using specific cases to prove a generality; and (2) using a (perception of a) generality to prove specific cases. You simply cannot do either of those things, as long as you wish to be considered a person of a reasonable cast of mind and mature intellectual demeanour. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::*You still don't seem to understand what I was saying, let me try again: NOT ALL POLITICIANS ARE DISHONEST, BUT MANY ARE, AND MORE WILL BE, IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, SO WE SHOULD TAKE PRECAUTIONS TO DETERMINE WHICH ONES ARE, AND PUNISH THOSE ENOUGH TO ACT AS A DISINCENTIVE TO OTHERS. ] (]) 20:25, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::* I hear you loud and clear. But I naturally object to the "but we should assume they are" bit and all that follows.
			::::::* I can see I've got you angry now, so I'd better quit while I'm ahead. :) Let us agree to disagree. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:31, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::*I'm still thinking "assume" means something different in Oz. Let me give an example to explain it. Police officers are trained to assume that everyone has a gun and wants to shoot them. This does NOT mean that they should shoot everyone to protect themselves. This means they should watch the hands of each person and try to identify what they are holding and where it is aimed (if it could be a gun), and react accordingly. ] (]) 20:36, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::* No, I know exactly what "assume" means. It means you act as if something were true for the purposes of a particular context, knowing that it is not, or not necessarily, true otherwise. But you never give any context. Just being a politician is enough. If a person's role in society at a given moment is politician, you advocate they not be trusted, not necessarily because we '''know''' him/her to be dishonest, but because it's not safe to trust them. But the moment they leave politics and take on some other profession, they're suddenly trustworthy again? Is that it? Or, if you're saying that NOBODY should be trusted if we have insufficient knowledge of them, then just say that. Don't make it about a particular group of people (the group, ironically, chosen by the voting populace to represent them. What does that say about the voting public? They don't trust themselves?). -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::*I said that long ago: " I don't trust random strangers because they are potentially dishonest." However, trusting politicians is more dangerous, both because that is one of the professions which selects for dishonesty, and because the consequences of dishonest politicians are far worse. The ] is one example near me, where dishonest politicians claimed the water was safe to drink, even though they knew it was not, and poisoned many, and killed maybe ten, due to ]. ] (]) 21:01, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::* I don't know what you mean by "professions which selects for dishonesty". Can you explain? With a source if possible. -- ] </sup></span>]] 23:05, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::*I already explained, and gave examples (used car salesman and waitress). And no, I'm not going to scour the web to find refs for an off-topic discussion on my talk page. Go find your own. ] (]) 23:14, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::* No, I don't even understand the English of "selects for <something>". Is it a recognised expression? I see you've used both "select for" and "select against" above. I've searched wiktionary and Google for an explanation of the idiom (if that's what it is), without any luck. I can understand a person selecting politics as a career, but not "politics selecting for dishonesty". -- ] </sup></span>]] 07:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::*The profession of politician "selects for" dishonesty, in that those who are dishonest are more likely to be successful, and thus also more likely to choose that profession. And if an honest politician does manage to get in, they will likely be voted out of office when they tell the voters some truth that the voters don't want to hear. For example, in the US, if a politician were to say "The US is in decline relative to China, which will soon be the most powerful nation on Earth, politically, militarily, and economically, as a result of our decision to open up free trade with them, and there's no way to undo it now, so we just need to accept it", they would be voted out.
			:::::::::::::*Here's a use of "selects against": , in this case meaning that certain antibiotic combinations will actually reduce the proportion of antibiotic resistant microbes. (A single antibiotic, of course, "selects for" resistance to that antibiotic, by killing any microbes which aren't resistant to it.) ] (]) 17:24, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::* Thanks for that. I've sought more clarification on the expression and its origins on the Language Ref Desk.
			::::::::::::::* Now that I know what you're talking about, can you give me a source for "those who are dishonest are more likely to be successful, and thus also more likely to choose that profession" (politician)? Or is that simply an opinion you hold? -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::*There's not going to be a study of the relative honesty of politicians, as it would require their honest participation. ] (]) 00:02, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::* Then how would anyone ever know that your premise is correct? It all comes down to personal perception and personal opinion, doesn't it. -- ] </sup></span>]] 09:29, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::* May I take it that silence denotes agreement? -- ] </sup></span>]] 06:36, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::::*No you may not. Politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear. Thus it is in their self-interest to lie. If you think people don't act in their own self-interest, then the entire basis for capitalism is wrong. ] (]) 15:44, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::* Self-interest is fine, nay, mandatory, as long as it doesn't override the interests of others for which the self is to some degree responsible or with whom the self is associated. The whole basis of ] depends on the self winning as well as others winning. Any of the other 3 combinations (win-lose, lose-win, lose-lose) turns out to be equivalent to lose-lose. "Politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear" - sure they do. But does that automatically mean that whatever they say, they will turn around and do something different, or nothing at all? No, it doesn't. Broken promises get all the bad press, but there are plenty of examples of fulfilled promises. So, decent politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear, and then work hard to give them what they promised. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:56, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::::::*People always want lower taxes and more benefits, so to get elected they must promise that, which is clearly impossible. And why does a win-lose situation always turn into lose-lose ? A sports event comes to mind as a case where one side often wins and the other loses. How did both lose ? ] (]) 03:54, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::::* Somewhat simplistic. Do you really believe that all politicians always promise lower taxes? There has never been a recorded exception? What about such a promise being out of synch with their party's official policy? And if it's so obviously impossible to achieve, what idiots would promise it regardless? And what idiot voters would believe them if they did? ''You'' can see through such impossible promises, so why can't the general mass of voters? And has there never been a case of a politician promising lower taxes, and actually delivering? There must have been, because taxes are actually lowered from time to time. No, it seems you're just trotting out vague cliches like "All politicians are liars", and treating them as incontrovertibly proven facts. And when I ask you to produce some proof, you just give me more of the same.
			:::::::::::::::::::::*Trump is promising all sorts of things he can't possible deliver, like getting Mexico to pay for a wall with the US, and he seems to gain more supporters with each whopper he tells. And I never said all politicians were dishonest, you keep making that part up. I've explained that several times now, yet you refuse to learn. ] (]) 18:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::::::* Yes, my bad. Your thesis is that all politicians are ''potentially'' dishonest, but we must treat all of them as if they were all ''actually'' dishonest. Which is indistinguishable, in effect, from saying they are all actually dishonest. I think we've been on this merry-go-round before. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::::::::::*No, you don't treat them the same as if they were corrupt, which would mean you would throw them in jail. I gave the example of the police who assume every suspect has a gun and wants to kill police, but this does not mean they shoot all suspects. ] (]) 21:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::::* Win-win obviously doesn't apply to competitive sports and games, where by definition the only way to win is by making the other side lose. I'm talking about general human interactions. I think you know that. -- ] </sup></span>]] 05:05, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::::::::*Sports are human interactions. But if you want a non-sports example, say two people are up for the promotion to supervisor. One wins it and the other loses out. How did the person who won really lose ? ] (]) 18:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::::::* That's still a competitive context, where, '''by definition''', there can be only one winner. A better example would be this very discussion. If both you and I treated it as a competitive contest and went all out to disprove the other's position, the one who ultimately felt forced to capitulate may feel vanquished and the other victorious. That's not an ideal outcome. If we were friends before we started, that friendship should be unaffected at the end, no matter what the outcome. That's why it's best to put points forward in good faith, and seriously consider what the other has to say, without rejecting their responses out of hand, or without contriving counter-examples designed to fit one's own case. Ultimately the discussion will come to its natural conclusion (as long as we don't allow it to just peter out through loss of interest/energy, or come to a stalemate). Both will have learnt something, and both will go away with a more nuanced understanding, even of their own position, certainly of the other's. There will be no "I told you so", or "I was right and you were wrong". Neither will feel they have "lost", because it should never have been about that in the first place. In that sense, both will "win". The way to proceed with such things is to want yourself to win ''while also wanting the other to win'' - and acting accordingly. The usual way we do things in the West is to want oneself to win ''while wanting the other to lose''. Where has that got us as a culture? If you end up feeling that you have won at the other's expense, then some damage has been done to the relationship, and before long you'll realise that you have lost too. That's why win-lose, lose-win and lose-lose are all equivalent: lose-lose. -- ] </sup></span>]] 20:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::::::::::::*So you can have a win-lose in any competitive situation, apparently, which to me is the only time the terms win and lose apply in the first place. ] (]) 21:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::::::::::::* That's far from true. You need to get out of the competitive mindset. I acknowledge that may be anathema to the way you were brought up. There's a vast literature about the application of win-win in general human personal interactions where there isn't, or shouldn't be, a competitive aspect. In any commercial negotiation, if ''both'' parties don't come away feeling they have ''both'' won, then the negotiation has failed, regardless of immediate appearances. Here are just two of the multitude of hits: , . ] gets most of the credit for the philosophy these days, but it long, long predated him. -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:14, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
			True, I don't give random strangers money on whatever pretext they may offer, or ask them to mind my granddaughter while I run an errand, or whatever. It's not because I actively distrust them, it's that I know nothing about them, and certainly not enough to know with reasonable certainty my money or grandchild is safe with them. If you can't see the difference between that very responsible and prudent position, and "all politicians are (potentially) dishonest", I cannot help you. -- ] </sup></span>]] 00:49, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			:There are only 2 possibilities with random strangers, you either trust them or you don't. If you did, then you would indeed give them money and ask them to watch your granddaughter. ] (]) 23:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
			== TB ==
			{{tb|Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Computing#How_to_prevent_Google_Chrome_apps_from_knowing_tab_is_not_on_top_.3F}}
			== Mathematics ==
			I responded to your question on the mathematics antics reference page. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			I added another way to understand the problem on the mathematics reference page. I am still no understanding which part of the previous statements you are both not understanding. If you could point out which sentence or which measurement you don't understand I would be happy to clarify that statement. @ {{u|StuRat}} (] (]) 04:46, 30 March 2016 (UTC))
			:The problem is you start somewhere in the middle of the question, assuming we already know things we don't. That was the Math Ref Desk, so you shouldn't assume biological knowledge there, only math knowledge. You should have started with something like this:
			:How many spherical items can be packed into a container ?
			:1) The items have a radius of R.
			:2) The container has a shape of A, and dimensions of B×C×D.
			:Note that I've stripped off all the biology that really isn't relevant to the problem. You also use rather nonstandard units, like 60/1000 of a mm. If you could put that in decimal form it would be more convenient. At first look I thought you meant 60 out of 1000 trials or something like that. ] (]) 06:18, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
			The biology is reference to the problem, math is often in word problems. It takes a lot of effort to post to Misplaced Pages with this touch pad. Also, most people don't know what a μm is , but it is 1/1,1000 of a meter. Use a sphere for the first question with a diameter of 5cm. Generally on tests you are instructed to skip the questions you don't know and go to the next, there are many math questions contained in those paragraphs. Like I said, math often comes in the form of worded problems, there was a lot of reference information their which relates to the real world application for this math. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:Right, and those tests are to test people's ability to decipher a question from all that text, but we are not here to be tested, so just give us the problem in as straightforward a way as you can manage, please. JBL mentioned that you seemed to be writing in a ] manner, meaning you just write things down as you think of them, not attempting to organize your thoughts in any way. I agree. Also, your title doesn't name the problem (something like "Spherical packing problem" would make sense), and you spelled ] wrong. And you still haven't shown us your complete math. ] (]) 06:37, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
			Are you going to do the math? The cell count is 500,000 and the diameter of those each cell is 20μm. How large would the required container be and how many of these cells would fit into a sphere with a diameter of 5cm. There are multiple avenues for reaching this data and one method gave a vastly different answer, while all volume related methods lend that such a capacity of cells is an mathematical impossibility. (] (]) 07:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC))
			:No, it's your responsibility to do the math, then we review it and point out any mistakes. This is to prevent people from having us do their homework for them. ] (]) 07:30, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
			I'm attempting to get a second look at this information I order to rebuke the referenced information on a cell count reported everywhere the ovaries or oocytes are mentioned on Misplaced Pages. But here is the math I had and saved before a doctor deleted it from the talk page in defense of the references I suppose.
			The volume using the above referenced cell measurement is ≈4.19mm. I will show the work with the math symbols: 4/3π(10μm)3≈ 4,188.79μm3 ; 4,188.79μm3 ÷ 1,000 = 4.18879mm3 ; 4.18879mm3∗ 500,000 = 2,094,395mm3 ; 2,094,395mm3 ÷ π ≈ 666,666.63407mm3 ; 666,666.63407mm3÷ 4/3 ≈ 499,999.97555mm3 ; 3√499,999.97555mm3 ≈ 79.37mm ; 79.37mm ÷10 = 7.937cm in radius.
			The adult human ovary is reported to be 4cm x 3cm x 2cm so how can this volume fit inside of it? (The radius found is for a sphere which contains the volume of 500,000 cells, being a lesser measurement than actual reality as you loose the negative spaces you would incur by the stacking of spheres). (] (]) 08:28, 30 March 2016 (UTC))
			:{{tps}} {{u|Crlinformative}}, there's an error in your math when converting volume units. If 1000um = 1mm, then (1000um)^3 = (1000x1000x1000)um3 = 1 000 000 000um3 = 1mm3. So where you're dividing by 1000 to convert from um3 to mm3 you should be dividing by 1000000000. I think the numbers work out then. Good luck. ] (]) 14:54, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
			:Yes, please try it again and list your math and I will take another look at it. ] (]) 16:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
			Did you just try to use distraction methodology; the doctor did the same when arguing. 5um x3um x 87um = 1,305um<sup>3</sup>. In conversions in the lab when you multiply unit symbols the symbols themselves multiply and to convert from one symbol to another you go by the number of mL in L, ect. So my question is why do you cube the conversion rate? Is it that you are converting each part of the volume gaining measurement? This is where I found the mathematical query, the difference in volume when using a cuboidal method and spherical method. That's what I was calling the mathematical dilemma. I will use the cell count of 1,000,000 for comparison to what IP address 99.236.126.232 wrote and not convert to avoid that potential error, this will enlighten the difference between cuboidal and spherical volume:
			(4/3)π(10μm)3≈ 4,188.79μm3 ; 4,188.79μm3∗ 1,000,000 = 4,188,879,000μm3 ; 4,188,879,000μm3 ÷ π ≈ 1,333,333,268.15μm3 ; 1,333,333,268.15μm3÷ 4/3 ≈ 999,999,951.11μm3 ; 3√999,999,951.11μm3 ≈ 999.99998μm ; 999.99998μm ÷ 1,000 ≈ 0.999mm in radius.
			So why is the cuboidal measurement of the volume of this diameter/radius so much larger than the spherical volume containment of the same volumes? The doctor's claim is that 20μm x 100 is 2,000μm and 100x100x100 is 1,000,000 giving a 2mm space of containment. On that note, however, would not it be 8mm<sup>3</sup>? I know, that's 4 questions,and a fifth to check the mathematics, but those are my queries. The doctors deleted all our conversations in other locations, it seems he is the moderator of all those talk pages. (] (]) 04:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC))
			:It might help to look at a simpler conversion. Let's figure out how many cubic millimeters fit in a cubic centimeter. A 2D diagram may help:
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			m m m m m m m m m m
			:Here we have 10 millimeters, each represented by an m, in each direction. If you count them, you will see there are 10×10 = 100, that's 1cm<sup>2</sup>=100mm<sup>2</sup>. If we add third dimension, we get 10×10×10 = 1000, so 1cm<sup>3</sup>=1000 mm<sup>3</sup>. Does that help ? ] (]) 04:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
			I am trying to understand the difference between spherical calculation and cuboidal in reference to "mathematical dilemma". I apologize I accidentally erased the math when trying to copy it and the. Didn't have it saved when I reposted what I had deleted. I will make the correction above. Also, if the container is 2mm x 2mm x 2mm would not that be 8mm<sup>3</sup> instead of 2mm<sup>3</sup>?
			:Yes, and that should be written as (2mm)<sup>3</sup> = 8mm<sup>3</sup>. Unfortunately, many forget the parens, causing no end of confusion. ] (]) 05:12, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
			Yes, this all helps. I will have to try other methods them to do rove that humans are born with 1,000,000 primordial follicles, or that an embryo contains 4 to 7,000,000 of them. The only reference they have is books reporting it with no actual data to support the claims, that I have found. Thank you for your time. (] (]) 06:20, 31 March 2016 (UTC))
			==Reference desk==
			Hi Stu. I see here yet again you were the first to respond, and included no references. I can't speak for the others, but one reason ''I'' give you a hard time for no refs is that so often you post your unrefereced responses within minutes, before anyone else even has a chance to type up a better, referenced reply. I can't make you find and post refs. I can't make you stop posting unreferenced material. But I ''suggest'' that you'd get me (and maybe Jayron and others) off your back if you at least refrain from posting unreferenced replies until a few other people have had the chance to post their referenced replies. Just something to consider. ] (]) 21:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
			:There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish. (Lions are social animals, tigers are not, social animals require a higher level of social intelligence.) And I don't see your point about not wanting me to respond quickly. You can add all the referenced answers you want, before or after I give mine. It's not a race. ] (]) 00:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			:: ''There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish.'' - that misses the point exquisitely, Stu. Users come to the Reference Desk, wanting - you guessed it - references. At least, that is the assumption we work under. They don't want the opinion of some anonymous jerk on the internet. If you believe a claim can be referenced, it's surely up to you to provide such a reference, not to leave it up to others. That's the lazy person's way, and it creates more trouble than it's worth. It's not that the claims you make are incorrect - not necessarily, anyway. It's that claims by themselves, with no supporting references, are worthless in the context of a Reference Desk. There's a reason it's not called the Opinions Desk, or the Easily-Checked Claims Desk. -- ] </sup></span>]] 00:14, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			:::I've had this conversation already way too many times, and already stated that I have no intention of providing references for things which need no reference. If somebody genuinely doubts something I said, or if they want to see the source for some other reason, then I will be glad to help (as I just did at that very Q when somebody wanted a source on my unusual claim that tigers avoid white cloth, even going so far as to die as a result). I'm sure you don't provide refs for absolutely everything you say, either. But then there are people like Jayron who seem to ask for refs for the most obvious things imaginable, just as a sadistic way to make me waste my time. And let's not start a debate here, either, I've told you my position, there's no point in discussing it indefinitely, so just let it go. ] (]) 00:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			::::Ok, fine. It's not a race, but replies higher up are read first, and get more attention. And often you say some total wrong bullshit that I then have to spend time correcting. Whatever, you gotta do you, even if that means shooting of your mouth and drawing criticism from many different users at many different times. Just consider that the common and repeated comments you get indicate that you are functioning outside of our community norms. Even you admit it's happened '''"too many times"'''. It's not just me. It's not just Jayron. It's not just Jack. It's very many of us, that have told you, in sometimes polite ways and sometimes snidely, that you do not provide the right amount of references. Nobody is saying you have to reference 100% of everything. Nobody is saying that they themselves have never ever posted something without reference. And yet still, you get these frequent complaints, while most of us don't. The common denominator here is ''you''. So you can spin it any way you like, and you can do whatever you like. But if you continue to act outside our norms for acceptable behavior, then you have to accept that some people will criticize you for it, more or less often, more or less politely. After so many polite suggestions of mine go unheeded, please forgive me if I may seem a bit snide or impolite on this matter in the future. ] (]) 21:11, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			:::::When Jack said "If you believe a claim can be referenced, it's surely up to you to provide such a reference, not to leave it up to others", it sure sounds like he expects 100% of claims to be referenced. And I am far from the only victim of incivility at the Ref Desk. Bugs, for example, is always insulting anon IP users. Others insult anyone who didn't find their answer in a Google search, doesn't write English properly, etc. The constant reminders to keep incivility off the Ref Desk seem to have gone unheeded. And now Jayron has resorted to outright lies. I seem to be his favorite scapegoat at the moment, but he has been incivil to many others in the past. ] (]) 21:53, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			:::::: No, I wasn't meaning that. Of course there are times when a statement can be made and no reference is required. We can all be reasonable about this. But you often go into a quite detailed answer in point form, giving various reasons why you believe so-and-so is the case. Typically, these posts of yours will contain not even a link to a WP article, let alone any external cite. I know you'll now track down a counterexample, but I'm talking typically, generally, usually. A consistent pattern. A StuRat trademark. If I see a new post that's a longish list of dot points with very few or no links, I know it's from you before I've even seen the signature. I know it's an exposition of your opinions. Unless it's a subject I'm interested in at that time, I tend to skip over your posts unread. It mightn't bother you that not everybody reads all your posts, but that's not the issue. (Similarly, when I see a huge block of text with no paragraphs, I know it's from ]. Because it's unreadable, I skip right over it, and he's wasted his time, at least as far as I'm concerned. I've told him more than once that he's the king of TL:DR, but that doesn't seem to cut much ice. But at least he does provide some refs in amongst the unreadable verbiage, so we can't fault him on that score.)
			:::::: You recently asked for some references to support someone else's claim, and you were given half a dozen in no time flat (Humanities: Hillary Clinton and Benghazi). But when we ask ''you'' to provide references for ''your'' claims, we're told: ''There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish.'' If you wish!! Do you see the mismatch here, Stu? It's always ''someone else'' doing the work of tracking down references, while you're content to just make claims, opinions and assertions. You refuse to back up your own claims, but imperiously ask others to back up theirs. You've accused me of being unfair to you in the past. Well, first remove the log in your own eye, mate. -- ] </sup></span>]] 23:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::The difference is I don't ask people to provide refs just to be annoying, but only when I genuinely want to see the refs myself or question whether a claim is true. When people ask for refs for that reason, I am happy to comply, as I already told you (and provided an example) in my previous response. When they are trying to intentionally waste my time, I don't take the bait.
			:::::::Now you've fallen into your old pattern of repeating the same argument I've already replied to, indefinitely (like how you keep bringing up your grudge about apostrophes). Just learn to let things go. ] (]) 00:39, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
			:::::::: I only raised that apostrophe thing because you told another user how they "should" spell something, while our efforts to tell you how you "should" spell '''its''' go unheeded. Again, it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do". I just wanted to highlight the hypocrisy that often seems to be your stock in trade. I don't like using words like that, particularly with people I have regular and usually positive dealings with, but your actions have a way of attracting such criticism. -- ] </sup></span>]] 01:11, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
			::::::You know, you ''are'' great at largely remaining civil, and for that reason I do cut you a little slack. But not a free pass. Check out my talk page archive for some rather nice things I said about you even when you were spouting bs at the time. And you know what? I have repeatedly criticized Bugs for being uncivil, and not just to IPs! I've also told TRM to not be so bitter and mean at the talk page. I've also told Nimur to be less gruff and offputting at times. So there's no way in hell I'm singling you out, and I am being civil, too. On the other end, I've been criticized too. I think ''twice'' in my tenure here. Once was early on, when I mentioned a ] and someone removed it as medical advice. The other was when a user told me I was getting to heated/involved in a thread, and maybe I should step away from WP for a few days. Both suggestions were annoying in the moment, but actually good ideas in the long run. ] (]) 15:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
			== edit ==
			I that used to be on the talk page; hope you don't mind. —] (]) 21:39, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
			:Thanks, that fits the new location better. ] (]) 22:26, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Special Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Something you deserve i.e. owed. Regards. ] (]) 09:58, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks ! For anything in particular ? ] (]) 14:08, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
			::{{emoji|1F60F|size=27}} For being the smartest guy in WP. For always helping out me and others. For being a convict (not providing references to your statements cause you are just too smart). And so on... {{=3|tongue}} -- ] (]) 18:34, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
			== ] ==
			I remembered that you mentioned about {{convert|2|l|floz|abbr=on}} of pop costing $1.10 and today I just came across . ] a {{convert|355|ml|abbr=on}} costs about $2.50 and over $3 if you buy it at the convenience store. A {{convert|591|ml|abbr=on}} bottle costs over $6. ], ], ] 01:19, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
			:Yes, there are plenty of stores willing to charge far more. My price is what you find on a 2 litre bottle sold at a normal (not a luxury store like ]) grocery store, on sale (which is pretty much every other week). ] (]) 15:21, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
			== Narner ==
			Hi Stu, why did you delete my answer on the language ref desk? ] (]) 21:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
			:Very sorry. I didn't mean to do that, I was just trying to add to my answer. I got an edit conflict, and tried to resolve it, but I guess I messed up. ] (]) 22:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
			== 13 Colonioes ==
			StuRat, you should have linked to ], not ] ( You'll be bathing in the anachronisms ). Cheers! --] (]) 16:34, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
			:Thanks for the heads up. I switched to ], which seems the most appropo. ] (]) 16:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
			== Ref desk behaviour ==
			] This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "]". Thank you.<!--Template:AN-notice-->
			Stu, is entirely unacceptable. I won't repeat what others have been saying repeatedly over the years, but I think the time has come to make this official. I'm sure you'll get a fair hearing. ] (]) 18:16, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
			== Talkback (WP:RD/S) ==
			{{Talkback|Sagittarian Milky Way}}
	== Note ==		== Note ==
			That user monkey-man-something was likely telegraphing that he's the same guy who asked "Black People like monkeys!?!?" a day or two prior. The reason he would have created a user ID was so he could spell out "Jews" instead of having to invent a phonetic equivalent. As you may have seen, that monkey is easy to smoke out. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 19:48, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
	Please familiarize yourself with ] before making more false accusations. Note that false accusations are ], and border on ]. Note also that an ] is a fallacy, not a valid argument. (]) 13:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
			== WP:AN ==
			There's a discussion at ] you may be interested in. --]] 14:34, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
			:Which discussion is that ? ] (]) 14:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
			::At the bottom. --]] 14:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
			*Your input is requested there, ]. ]] 14:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
			== Gb / GB / GiB ==
			Stu, when you warned Iapetus about using Gb: "you should use "GB" for gigabytes, as "Gb" is sometimes used for gigabits" perhaps you ought to have also mentioned that memory is measured in ], not ]. Regards, ] (]) 15:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
			:I haven't really seen that used much, have you ? ] (]) 15:30, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
			::Every day. Most open source (read GNU/Linux + derivatives) use it consistently. The only time the non-standard Giga = 2^30 is used is in legacy applications where it is retained for compatibility. The standard system utilites changed from using blocks to KiB, MiB and GiB a decade or more ago. ] (]) 15:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
			:::I get about 20x as many Ghits for MB as MiB. ] (]) 16:23, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
			== Areal ==
			Thanks for posting this question. I had the same thought when I started reading it in the notices that I was getting on my phone a few months back. It was new to me then. †<span style="font-family:monospace;">]</span>†|] 16:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
			:You're welcome. ] (]) 22:27, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
			==Ref Desk behavior==
			Look, I can try to be more professional when I ask for citations, but this is getting a bit ridiculous. It's not just me, it's not me, it's not just Tevildo, it's not just SpinningSpark, it's not just Jayron. When literally dozens of people tell you that you need to provide references, consider that it might be that they are right, and not that we are just all out to get you. I apologize for my sarcastic comment about wikipedia the other day. I also removed it. I will not apologize for calling out your offensive joke. That shit is offensive, and again, it's not just me who thinks so. I got thanked three times over that thread, and also supporting comments from two other users in thread. Now, maybe we are all overly sensitive, but that doesn't change the fact that this is not a joke desk. I tolerate your jokes when they are merely lame, I will '''not''' tolerate them when they are offensive to me and many users in our community. Note that I didn't simply delete the joke, as I'd have every right to. Nor did I box up the joke, which I'd have every right too. I merely wanted everyone to voice my opinion ''on'' your joke. If you are allowed to make offensive jokes, then I'm allowed to call them offensive. It's pretty simple, isn't it?
			I'm happy to let this drop here. But if you persist in fighting for your right to make offensive jokes without anyone telling you they are offensive, this will turn into a huge shitshow on the talk page, and you're going to come out looking like a classless cad. I don't think you're a bad guy, and I don't think you're homophobic. But your comment certainly looks that way, akin to ] equating gay marriage to zoophilia. So honestly and truly, I suggest there's better hills to die on. ] (]) 22:18, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
			==October 2016==
			] Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made&#32;to ]: you may already know about them, but you might find ] useful. After a revert, these can be placed on the user's talk page to let them know you considered their edit inappropriate, and also direct new users towards the ]. They can also be used to give a stern warning to a ] when they've been previously warned. Thank you.<!-- Template:Uw-warn --> ] (]) 22:30, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
			== Query re belief persistence ==
			Nobody else said anything about your argument at ] being wrong so I finally did. I'm interested - do you actually feel that you were right in saying that part 1 was all that was wrong? Perhaps other people think the same as you. ] (]) 14:35, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
			:Yes, if the original premise is correct, then the rest follows logically. The problem is with the unconditional acceptance of the original premise. This is rather similar to the classic Q: "A fair coin with a 50% independent chance of landing heads or tails each time is flipped 1000 times, and every time it lands heads up. What is the probability of that ?". The probability, if one accepts the premise, is 1/2<sup>1000</sup>. But, as a practical matter, this means it will never happen, so our original premise must be incorrect. But if you do accept the original premise, unconditionally, then you must accept the results. ] (]) 15:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
			::The problem I saw was with part 3 where if somebody else says the coin was actually fair then coming to the conclusion they must be biased seemed okay - but then coming to the conclusion it must be even less likely to be fair than one originally thought is I bbelieve a real bad step without further information. I think it is quite interesting that you think that part 3 follows okay. ] (]) 16:59, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
			:::Let's modify the scenario a bit. The person who told you it is a fair coin is somebody you absolutely trust, and the person who told you they flipped it 1000 times in a row and it always came up heads is somebody you don't know. In that case, wouldn't you assume the 2nd person is the liar, and not only about this, but potentially about everything else ? ] (]) 17:04, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
			::::Yes I would think there was a high probability of the person who told me they flipped the coin 1000 times and it came up heads every time being a liar. However it would not make me trust my friend more and in fact I would consider there to be a possibility of them being wrong even though I would normally absolutely trust them. ] (]) 19:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
			== ]: Voting now open! ==
			{{Ivmbox|Hello, StuRat. Voting in the ''']''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
			The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
			If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review ] and submit your choices on ''']'''. ] (]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
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			== Diabetes ==
			. ] (]) 02:49, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
			:I don't disagree with much they said, except that at one point the balding man said that saturated fats were the problem, then they seemed to be saying we should avoid all fats, later. That's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". Unsaturated, plant-based fats are absolutely essential to a healthy diet. Also, two issues they didn't address have to do with carb overload. That is, even if your body is working normally and the blood sugar is getting into the cells, you can still have a problem if sugar is going into the blood stream faster than it is going out. The reasons the glucose goes up so fast now are high refined carb meals (like white flour/white rice and lots of sugar) with little fiber to slow the digestion process. They looked at the Asian diet, high in rice, but it also has lots of veggies for fiber, and healthy vegetable oils. It's when you remove the veggies and just have the white flour and sugar, as in a cake, that the problem occurs. As far as beef being unhealthy, I agree, because of the saturated fats. Eat fish and eggs for your protein instead.
			:Also, there may be a more general problem with grains in that they cause inflammation. This is a natural defense mechanisms on the inside of the grains, as they, unlike berries, aren't meant to be digested (berries are meant to be digested, all except the seeds, to propagate the species). The hard husk is another such defense. We only recently (in evolutionary terms), learned how to grind off the hard shell to eat the insides, so haven't yet adapted to the chemical defenses inside. ] (]) 18:53, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
			== Deleting someone else's comments? ==
			Can you explain what was wrong with my answer that caused you to delete it? If it was a mistake, could you correct it then? --]] 19:15, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			:Sorry, it was a Misplaced Pages bug. I've seen this occasionally with edit conflicts. I re-added your comment. ] (]) 19:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			::No troubles. It happens from time to time. Thanks for fixing it. --]] 19:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			== Mushrooms ==
			If you want to pursue then take it to ANI. I'm sick of the Ref Desk being such a safe harbour for users who aren't improving the project, in fact actively doing the opposite. See you there. ] (]) 21:56, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			:"Doesn't improve the project" is not a reason for deletion. Note that Jayron, an Admin, thought it was fine and posted a response. I've had endless arguments with him, but on this we agree. ] (]) 21:59, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			::If you want to promote posts that provide a how-to guide on how to take drugs which can make people very sick, then that's your call. I don't believe it belongs in the project. Please feel free to take this matter to ANI where I will make sure this kind of garbage which the Ref Desks currently actively enable is discussed in a much wider forum; perhaps we can finally get rid of the Ref Desks altogether if this is the kind of nonsense that's being peddled there. ] (]) 22:05, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
			== Misc ref desk ==
			That one IP is spouting the extreme-right line of "thought" on these subjects, basically trying to foment arguments. It's probably time to semi this page, except ] seems not to have a place for it now. He also accuses me of 3RR violation, when he's also guilty of it, just under more than one IP. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 04:00, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
			:Just ignore it please. ] (]) 04:17, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
			::I've concluded it was all IP trolling, and have boxed it up. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 05:29, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
			== Not useful ==
			Hi StuRat,
			May I suggest that in the future you restrain yourself from posts like ? You have given a uselessly vague pointer to a person who already provided in their post a much more precise one, and your other thoughts are miles from anything that could reasonably be called "a bidding strategy."
			Thanks, ] (]) 14:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:I disagree. The whole point of the Q is to determine the number of bidders, and I gave a strategy to do so. ] (]) 17:18, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:: You are wrong on both counts, and obviously so. "You should be able to estimate ..." isn't a strategy; it's not even an idea. Please, do not answer questions if you have nothing useful to say. --] (]) 17:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:::Please stop with the insults and let's have an actual conversation about the answer. If there are 5 bids on the first item up for auction, or 5000, you really don't see that difference as an indication of how many total bids there will be on all the auctions ? ] (]) 17:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:::: My comments are criticisms, not insults. Indeed, it is true that 5000 > 5, but this trivial observation does not constitute a strategy for anything. --] (]) 21:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:::::I've since added more. It now lists a precise way to estimate the payout. BTW, the way to state your case without being insulting is: "I believe the OP was looking for a specific bidding strategy, and your reply appears to lack such info". Avoid words like "useless". ] (]) 22:01, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
			:::::: Your advice now amounts to a strategy, with no evidence to suggest that it is a good one. And a link to the article ] for a person asking for a strategy for a particular style of auction is indeed completely useless, regardless of whether it is polite to say so. --] (]) 03:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			:::::::No it's not. The problem is that if he waits to see how many people bid on the early auctions, rather than bidding, to gauge what the overall response will be, others may do the same, making these observations less useful than they otherwise would be. This is an aspect of ], having to consider what others are thinking about what others are thinking, etc. And disagreeing with someone is never cause to be impolite. That's the Donald Trump strategy, not how civilized people behave. One way to determine if you are being needlessly rude is to think about if you would say something like that to someone in person. If not, then it's not appropriate online, either. Meanwhile, I've seen no contribution from you, making your criticism of my proposed strategy even more puzzling. ] (]) 04:14, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::: By precisely the same reasoning, it would have been very helpful to include a link to the article ] because mathematical reasoning will be involved in giving a good answer to the question. Frankly, you should be embarrassed to make this argument. I have not made a contribution on the thread because, unlike you, I have the sense not to make comments on the reference desk if I do not have anything useful to say. (Note that specialized knowledge is ''not'' required to tell that your initial post has no value whatsoever.) --] (]) 04:32, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::Yes it did have value. It contained a portion of a strategy, which could then be expanded by others (as it was, it was expanded by me), to provide a complete strategy. Each answer does not need to be comprehensive. Giving part of the solution is better than offering nothing whatsoever, as you have done. And I see you continue to be rude. What would it harm, if you behaved politely here ? And what does it help, to continue to act rudely ? ] (]) 04:39, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::: Your initial post has three sentences. The first one is meaningless hand-waving; it has no content at all, and is certainly not a strategy or part of a strategy. The second sentence is a useless pointer. And the third sentence is irrelevant rambling. It is literally true that it was not better than nothing: anyone who read your first post wasted 5 seconds of their life and learned nothing. (Your follow-up on its own is still a bad answer but at least could conceivably be related to a good answer, namely, a strategy together with a theorem demonstrating (or at least a heuristic suggesting) that the strategy has positive expected value.) --] (]) 16:58, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::::First sentence: "You should be able to estimate the number of total bidders there will be by the number who bid on earlier auctions." This is literally taking a ] and using it to predict the nature of the population, similar to using ]s to predict the election results. This is a well-established statistical method.
			::::::::::::2nd and 3rd sentences: "However, we get into ] here, in that others may also take a wait-and-see approach to gauge the amount of bidders, too. So, it could end up like an Ebay auction, where it's pointless to bid until the last few seconds, as doing so gives away too much info." This is pointing out a limitation of the sample method here, if others also avoid early bids until they can take their own samples. My second post then gave a method for dealing with this limitation, by assuming that the ratio of early bidders to total bidders will remain the same from year to year. Together they are a complete method for predicting the total number of bidders, and hence payout, using established mathematical and statistical methods. Your complaints are totally baseless. ] (]) 17:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::::You have not responded to my statement that a reply need not be a complete solution, as even a step in the right direction is helpful. You also have not said you will attempt to be move civil in your responses. ] (]) 17:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::::: The sentence "You should be able to estimate ..." has no content whatsoever. Maybe you intended to say something else that does have content, but if so, you failed. The other sentences also have no conceivable value in answering the question asked. The whole post is completely worthless and should never have been made. In the future, please do not make posts on the math reference desk unless they have some useful content. Thanks. --] (]) 17:51, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			::::::::::::::You statements are patently false, as I've proven. If you are unwilling to engage in a civil discussion, stay off my talk page. Calling me an ass in NOT civil discussion: . ] (]) 17:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
			==The Rambling Man==
			An endless stream of vitriol emanates from TRM towards a good portion of the editors and Admins he interacts with, often with no apparent cause other than TRM disagreeing with them on some matter. We don't need people here who behave like that. He was apparently forced to resign as Admin for such behavior, and now he got a 1 month block, but he refuses to change. My advice to everyone is to refuse to engage with him. He seems to feed off the trouble he can cause, and denying him this pleasure may get him to leave. ] (]) 16:15, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
			== Userpage template rename ==
			] has {{tl|RefDesk}}, a template that is not related to, but whose name is confusingly simiar to, {{tl|Refdesk}}. The one you have is now a redirect to {{tl|RefDesk help icon}} to avoid that confusion. Could you update your userpage so that we can scrap that old redirect altogether? Thanks, ] (]) 18:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
			:Done. ] (]) 06:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for April 3==
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
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			== Book learning listed at ] ==
			]
			An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect ]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Book learning'' redirect, you might want to participate in ] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> - ''']''' <sup>(]) (]) (]) </sup> 00:58, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
			==Trout==
			{{trout}}
			You've successfully defended your right to make wild speculations on the ref desk over the years and I'm resigned to it. However, wildly speculating about eye safety earns you a trout.--] (]) 06:07, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
			:1) You can't put the trout in the title, it messes up the heading. I fixed it.
			:2) I assume that you, along with many others, misread the Q as "What eye protection do I need to protect me from a high-powered cutting laser directed at my eye". This is not the Q. It's about whether ANY protection at all is needed against the REFLECTED light from a low-powered SIGHTING laser. So, the level of protection needed, if any, is quite minimal. ] (]) 21:25, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
			:You are headed over the line of "no medical advice". Stop now so you don't get blocked. ] (]) 21:58, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
			::This has absolutely nothing to do with medical advice. You don't ask doctors which safety goggles to use. ] (]) 22:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
			:::Agreed it is not medical advice. Also, although following the advice could get someone into trouble for violating OSHA regulations, it's not legal advice either. Is there actually a guideline that covers such cases?<strike>, or is advice (as an extreme example) to go out and point a loaded gun at someone allowable by RefDesk guidelines?</strike>--] (]) 01:10, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
			::::You still seem to be missing that we are talking about the reflection from a low-powered sighting laser, not a direct hit from a high-powered laser. Using your gun analogy, that would be like giving advice that somebody point a loaded '''paint gun''' at somebody else. ] (]) 02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
			:::::I had just come to remove the extreme example; I figured it would 1) only inflame things further, and 2) derail the question with protestations that it is in fact a much more extreme example. Since the latter has already occurred I'll strike it rather than remove it. I understand that this is about reflection from a low-powered sighting laser.
			:::::The question remains: Is there a RefDesk guideline that addresses giving advice that is potentially medically and legally harmful, but is neither medical nor legal advice. (The question about whether there is such a guideline is actually directed at ], though of course anyone is welcome to respond.)--] (]) 02:32, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
			::::::That's a slippery slope. For example, offering the standard advice to "drink lots of water" could get a link to ] and somebody arguing that this is dangerous medical advice and the user who said it should be blocked. We all need to just learn to tolerate statements we disagree with, rather than trying to block the editor. If you disagree, just state why, give any sources to support your position, and leave it at that. No need for any threats. ] (]) 02:41, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
			:Advice about what "is safe", without cite, is a problem. You know many other editors think almost everything you do is a problem, and I'm not going in that direction, merely that one particular type of answer is a more of a problem than ''just'' their concerns about "uncited and often wrong". You're welcome to ignore this concern, as you seem to do in general, but the wider admin group might not be so forgiving. ] (]) 20:48, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
			I'm not sure if this thread had anything to do with it, but thank you for your efforts here .--] (]) 07:05, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
			:Thanks. I'd forgotten all about this thread. I do take eye safety (and all safety) seriously, as I did at this Q. ] (]) 16:26, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
			== sperm ==
			We don't give financial advice, which includes starting a business. You seem to think that my having enforced this rule invalidates it, but any editor can enforce ]. See also {{WP:3RR]] since that's where this goes next. ] (]) 21:52, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:1) This Q is on how much sperm a man produces, and no business advice was requested.
			:2) You are to list the reason for any closure directly in the title bar of the hat.
			:3) You are to sign the closure in the same place. ] (]) 22:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			*StuRat, if you do not revert yourself, I'm going to block you for 3RR and edit warring. --] (]) 22:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:*I will revert it, but note it is being discussed on the Ref Desk Talk page, as this was an inappropriate <s>block</s> hat. ] (]) 22:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:**You mean inappropriate hat, right? There hasn't been a block. --] (]) 22:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:::*Yes, hat. ] (]) 22:26, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			Good call to self-revert, considering that you were on your fifth, by my count. Best to keep track so you don’t accidentally violate 3RR. By the way, you may wish to give this a read: ]. In short, if the line starts with a '''<code>*</code>''', start the next line with a '''<code>*</code>'''. —] (]) 22:42, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:If everyone just uses n colons followed by one asterisk, then it doesn't matter what the next person does, the first post still looks right. Also, your count isn't right, as the first few were reverts of the deletion of my ] link, not the hat. ] (]) 23:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			::The way your browser renders the styling may ''look'' right, but what actually results is a mess of unrelated nested lists. You can see this if you view the resulting page’s HTML source code (look for {{tag|dl|o}}/{{tag|dd|o}} and {{tag|ul|o}}/{{tag|li|o}}), or if you access the page in a number of other ways (as ]). A simple solution is to copy the markup (colons, asterisks, or any combination) from the comment you’re replying to, paste it ''immediately under'' that line (i.e. no blank line between), and then add to the end of that. Or just stick with ''only'' colons or ''only'' asterisks in a given thread.
			::3RR relates to the number of reverts to a '''whole page''', not individual repeated reverts. If I reverted something at the top of the page once, something at the bottom three times, and something in the middle twice, that would make '''six''' reverts to the page, and I could expect to be blocked for it. —] (]) 23:27, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
			:::That doesn't make much sense. So if I find 3 obvious instances of vandalism in an article, and revert all 3, I get blocked ? ] (]) 00:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
			::::Reverting vandalism is considered an exception, per ]. I highly suggest reviewing that page. —] (]) 12:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
			==Tojo==
			Dear StuRat, my self-deprecating sense of humor has evidently gone over your head. The edit you objected to so much referred to a mistake by myself, not you-note the smiley face next to the remark about the "ignorant editor", which is my way of saying I was talking about myself, which is something that you have completely missed. I was making fun of myself, not attacking you. The sentence I was correcting what was written by myself, which is something that you could have easily noticed if you had taken the time to look at the mistake I was correcting. You noticed my notice my edit, but somehow you assumed it was about you, rather noticing I was talking about myself. Instead, you just fly off the handle and accuse me of insulting you, which I was most certainly not. I will not apologize as the edit you are complaining about had utterly nothing to do with you, but I am sincerely sorry that your feelings were hurt. Note also that I thanked for your work on the Tojo article, which is inconsistent with your utterly baseless claims that I have something against you, which I assure you that I do not.
			As for your remark about "Western racism", I have no idea what grounds, if any do this accusation on. If you really think that General Tojo forced by the Americans against his will to bomb Pearl Harbour and that he was an Pan-Asian idealist fighting to end white supremacy in Asia, a thesis that is extremely popular in Japan and in India, then you are mistaken. I am not seeking to put words in your mouth, but I suspect that is what you mean by "Western racism". If you really want to understand Japan’s war aims, you need to need the concept of “place”, namely that all of the Asian peoples were just one big happy family with each Asian people occupying its rightful “place” in the family. In this concept, the Japanese were at the head of the family, and of the others had to accept their “place” below Japan. The former Emperor of China, Puyi initially believed in all this Pan-Asian talk when he became the Emperor of Manchukuo, but soon learned that it was his “place” as a Chinese man to be a “good slave” to the Emperor of Japan; as a “good slave” he had to bow down and happily lick the boots of the Showa Emperor because that was his “place”. The story of Puyi in nutshell captures what the Japanese were trying to do in Asia. Furthermore, I do not understand how you can possibly imply that my work on the Tojo article is due to “Western racism”. I was the one who brought in a mention of Tojo’s role in with the “comfort women”, of whom 80% were Korean, and the rest were Chinese, Filipino, etc. The young women taken away to the “comfort women” corps were subjected to quite horrific physical and sexual abuse. The reader needs to know what the “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere” meant in practice, to know this was the sort of world that General Tojo was fighting for. How is this “Western racism”? Please do explain? If the Japanese had taken India, they would done the same thing in India that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, Burma, Vietnam, Malaya, and everywhere else they went. I am no apologist for the British empire; read the section on the Niall Ferguson (who is an apologist for the British empire) article on the British empire, which is almost all my work. Having said that much, if the Japanese had taken India, things would had gotten much worse, which is something that appears to completely elude much of contemporary Indian public opinion who still think the wrong side won World War II. Given that what the Japanese did in China is all very well established, just why so many Indians, even today, regret that the Japanese never got the chance to do the same thing in India is a mystery. If the Japanese had conquered India, the "independence" that India would had gained would been the same as the "Empire of Manchukuo", the sham state that was really a Japanese colony. The British left India; the Japanese would not had be pushed out with non-violence as the British were, which is a very simple point that many Indians cannot grasp-perhaps deep down they know their "place" was to be "good slaves" to the Emperor.
			No, the article does not reflect “Western racism”. If Tojo comes across as an unattractive character, that because he was. Tojo was a stupid, fanatical and vicious man who caught up in all the mindless militarism of ''bushido'', which glories war above all else. Tojo was a moron who actually believed the Emperor of Japan was a god, even though common sense should had dictated otherwise. Anybody with the slightest modicum of intelligence could see the Emperor was not a god, so that shows just how truly dumb Tojo really was. I have nothing against the Japanese people, but I do understand Japan, and ''bushido'' leaves me cold. The same armistice terms that the Japanese rejected in July 1944 were the same ones they accepted in August 1945; by keeping the war going on for an extra 13 months resulted in their cities being bombed to the ground; millions of civilians killed in Japan, China, Vietnam and elsewhere; and hundreds of thousands of servicemen killed and wounded on both sides, but at least they upheld their values of ''bushido''. I ask you; was that a smart thing to do? The whole idea of getting yourself killed in a ''kamikaze'' attack because to die for the Emperor is the most beautiful world does not appeal to me. The Emperor was not a god, the war was lost, and the men of the ''kamikaze'' corps killed themselves and the American sailors for nothing. Indeed, strangely enough, despite all the glorification of war and death that went on in Japanese schools, the Emperor was not keen on dying-the Emperor wanted others to die for him, but he would never risk his own life. The Ayatollah Khomeini did the same thing in the Iran-Iraq war, having teenage boys run across minefields because to get yourself killed for Allah is the most glorious thing in the world and Allah would reward those who "martyr" themselves with 72 lush virgins to have sex for all time in the afterlife ; strangely enough the Ayatollah who was fanatical about wanting others to die for Allah, but never himself. This is not racism as you trying to imply; it seems sad that so Japanese men wasted their lives for nothing, dying for the lie that the Emperor was a living god, when he was not, just as the same way that so many Iranian boys died in suicidal attacks to please a stupid, bigoted man like the Ayatollah Khomeini, who was so dumb that he actually believed the world was flat. Having said that much, Tojo was a follower, not a leader, and it was the Emperor who was the one who was really in charge. After the war, the Americas decided to rule Japan though the Emperor, so they needed one especially evil figure for whom everything that went wrong could be blamed. Tojo was a bad man, but his malevolence has been exaggerated. The idea that Tojo was single-handily responsible for everything that went wrong is a post-war myth created by the Americans to justify not trying the Emperor for war crimes as he should have had been. The Emperor should had been hanged for war crimes, not allowed to reign on until his death in 1989, and absurdly to be presented as a pro-Western "moderate" opposed to Tojo(!). Returning to the main point, I am sorry that your feelings were hurt; I was only mocking myself and I meant no malice to you at all. I was not insulting you, and only engaging in my sense of humor. Good day and take care.--] (]) 05:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
			:1) Wow, can I buy you a paragraph break (or 10) ?
			:2) I did miss that you were talking about your own edits. However, I thought you were talking about the edits of others, which did use rather poor English, not mine.
			:3) The racism I mentioned in the article was one of Tojo's justifications for war. If you had insulted others for not writing proper English, and this was because they were not native English speakers, then yes, this would be racism too. But you didn't.
			:4) As for the India stuff, I assume you mean Bose ? I was unaware that there is a strong current feeling in India that things would have been better, had Bose won control of India. Do you have any links on this ? Perhaps they are leftists who think India would be better off communist ?
			:5) Something that has always interested me is that Japan seemed to be unaware that they would be unable to defeat the US, despite having no plan to invade the US mainland. A simple analysis should have shown that US industrial capacity, when committed to war, would vastly outstrip their own. At best, they might have hoped to destroy the Panama Canal to slow the movement of US warships to the Pacific, occupy the Hawaiian Islands, and destroy the shipyards on the US West Coast. However, they didn't have a plan to even do this much. How they hoped to win when all they did was give the US a bloody nose at Pearl Harbor is a mystery to me (although if they managed to take out all the US aircraft carriers, they might have bought themselves another year or so, but then atomic weapons would have been available for tactical use, such as against ], but of course Japan knew nothing about this). As it was, destroying battleships may have allowed the US to rely more on the valuable carriers rather than relying on battleships and the outdated tactics they represented.
			:6) Do you have any insight into why Japan thought it could win, despite being heavily committed in China and elsewhere, and being vastly surpassed by US population and industrial capacity ? All I can think of is if they assumed the US would focus on Europe, but the Pearl Harbor attack would seem to make Japan more of an enemy to the US. Was there a vast misunderstanding of US psychology, thinking that Pearl Harbor would make the US want to give up, rather than fight ? The very racism that Tojo observed in the US would lead the US to think that the Japanese were inferior and would be easily defeated. They also seem to be unaware that a threat from an external enemy tends to draw people closer, as in the case of the ancient Greek city-states which fought among themselves, but then united when invaded by Persia.
			:7) There was some mention that the Japanese thought that their eagerness to die in battle would give them the edge, but this fails to account for the loss of personnel, experience, skills, information and possibly weapons and equipment that all those deaths would entail. The concept of retreating when about to be defeated and living to fight another day seems to have eluded them. ISIS has the same problem currently, losing their most devoted soldiers to suicide bombings. ] (]) 11:57, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
			::Dear StuRat
			Good, I accept that the misunderstandings have been cleared up. In the spirit of friendly co-operation that supposed to characterize the project, I am going to let bygones be bygones. It is not gentlemanly to make fun anyone for their English, and I would never do that-the only person I mock is myself because I don't take myself too seriously.
			Yes, you are correct that I talking about Bose, who is a major national hero in India. Note that there are Bollywood films with Bose as a hero than there of Gandhi. I do suspect that Bose's emphasis on violence as the best solution to any problem does appeal to a certain type of Indian man, much more than does Gandhi's pacifism. The Indians who stopped the Japanese invasion of India at Kohmia and Imphal are seen in modern India as the villains, and the Indian National Army who are remembered as the heroes. It really cuts across the party lines; there are leftists who see Bose as hero fighting the oppressed masses of India (note that Bose died on his way to Moscow in 1945), but also many on the Hindu right who see Bose as a hero. Even more objectionably, quite a few Indians today see Hitler as a hero. Bal Thackeray, a major Indian politician who appropriately for cartoonist was a caricature of a Hindu chauvinist brought to life and the founder of the Shiv Sena party was most outspoken in his admiration of Hitler, whom he often praised as a role model for young Indian men. It doesn't make any sense. Hitler was a white supremacist who was quite hostile to Indians in ''Mein Kampf'', praised the British empire for keeping millions of non-white people down, and his favorite film was ''The Lives of a Bengal Lancer''; it seems that Hitler's many Hindu chauvinist fans today misunderstand what he meant when praised the Aryans (a term meaning the "noble ones" in Sanskrit taken from the Hindu sacred texts), note that the swastika is an ancient Hindu symbol for good luck and think that any enemy of Britain must a friend of India. Check out this link here: . Only in India can you put up a film poster of Bose and Hitler shaking hands, and present these guys as heroes. Off hand, I am sorry that I do not have links, but I assure that it is an odd feeling reading books by many Indian historians, who tended to portray the Axis as the good guys in World War II. Check the link here: and read the comments section, where many Indian YouTube editors, though not all, are openly pro-Bose and pro-Japanese. Personally, I do not understand these people. Even the video notes that the Japanese massacred a hospital full of wounded Indian soldiers (fighting for the British) in February 1944, and all these people can do is write how the Japanese were India's friends, fighting to free them from the British(!).
			You are quite right about American industrial capacity by far outstripping Japanese industrial capacity. In 1941, the United States produced 600 million tons of steel while Japan produced 6 million. I would agree with you that the decision-makers in Japan were completely irrational. The plan, such as it was, was to win enough victories, and then when the Allies sued for peace, ask the Pope to mediate, who General Tojo believed for some reason was pro-Japanese. The decision-makers in Tokyo were expecting a repeat of the Russian-Japanese war; just inflict enough defeats on the enemy until they sue for peace. Depending upon the context, the Japanese called their enemies the Anglo-Saxons (when German and Italian diplomats were around) or the white devils (when no Axis diplomats were around). A big part of Japanese thinking, which getting back to the subject of racism, was that they were a hard people who did not fear death because to them to die for the Emperor was the most beautiful thing in the world and the Anglo-Saxons-cum-white devils were a soft people who did feared death. There is a scene from a Japanese film from 1943 dealing with the fall of Singapore, when a Japanese soldier arrives in the barracks of the British officers in Singapore, and sees a table covered with a tea pot and mugs, and kicks it over in disgust. The scene meant to the British were a soft people, too fond of drinking tea while the Japanese were a hard and tough people. I do remember reading an excerpt from the diary of a Japanese officer at the Battle of Hong Kong saying the Canadian soldiers he was fighting were very effeminate because the Canadians cried when they were wounded. Yes, this is not rational, but this what the thinking was in Japan at the time. As I pointed in the Tojo article, he was actually on the moderate end of this, in the sense that was aware of the need to increase industrial capacity by creating a totalitarian national defense state; his rivals in the Imperial Way fraction were more extreme than him in seeing spirit, the will to win as the only factor in war.
			Again, I would agree with your points in 6. The assumption in Japan that the Americans were a soft people, afraid to die, and all you had to do was kill enough of them, and they would give up. That was the lesson the Japanese took from the war with Russia in 1904-05, and they expected history to repeat itself. Even then, they didn’t understand history very well. The war with Russia almost bankrupted Japan and by March 1905, the Japanese were winning, but they were running out of men. Anyhow, the revolution of 1905 and the economic exhaustion of Russia was just as important in making the Russian sue for peace as the Battle of Tsushima Straits were, aspects of the war that the Japanese forgot about. There is a further point that needs to be emphasized in that in ''bushido'', all that really matters is that you keep your honor, and winning and losing is almost immaterial. There is a book called ''The Nobility of Failure'' by Ivan Morris, which I strongly recommend if you really want to understand the Japanese. Only with one of the chapters deal with World War II, but it is a really wonderful introduction to Japanese culture and history. The book deals with the cult of the heroic failure in Japan. What matters in Japan is you keep your moral sincerity intact at all costs, even at the price of your life, which explains why heroic failures are especially honored in Japan. The man who keeps his honor and principles, even at the cost of his life, is the man the Japanese really love. Only one chapter in Morris’s book, the one concerned with the ''Kamikaze'' corps, deals with World War II, so I really cannot use that book for the Tojo article. Anyhow, Morris makes it clear that in 1944-45 most of the guys who volunteered for the ''Kamikaze'' corps knew the war was lost, but it was felt better to keep their moral sincerity intact by dying for the Emperor by clashing their airplanes into American ships rather giving up a lost war. It is a mentality so different from the Western mentality, this glorification of death, even a pointless death, as the morally superior thing to do that it is hard to understand. Even Morris, who lived in Japan, was fluent in Japanese and knew their culture very well, finds it a little bizarre. My point is in this way of thinking it win or lose, it doesn’t matter, just as long as you die with your moral sincerity intact. Actually it is even better that you die with your moral sincerity intact in a losing cause because it shows the depth of your moral sincerity. I know that one are not supposed to engage in OR, which is why I have not done everything along these lines, but in understanding the decision for war in 1941, it is striking that Tojo keeps saying that we need to keep our honor intact, no matter what. In other words, you are perfectly correct that Japan was heavily involved in China and could not hope to outmatch industrial capacity, but I am not certain if was the main criterion in Tojo’s mind; one gets the impression that Tojo did not really care if Pearl Harbour caused a war that Japan was going to lose; all that mattered to him was Japan keep its moral sincerity intact, even at the cost of millions dead and the all of the cities of Japan going up in flames. Even if you really interested in the philosophical basis of ''Bushido'' I would strongly advise reading this link: . It is a little heavy-going and opinionated, but it covers a lot very well.
			Again, on 7, I would agree with everything. I am not into promoting hatred against anybody, and there are many admirable aspects about the Japanese, but ''bushido'' is not one of them. ''Bushido'', at least the version that Japanese schoolboys were brainwashed into from the Meiji Restoration onward really was a death cult. This emphasis upon that the most beautiful and noble thing to do in the world was to die for the Emperor certainly produced soldiers and sailors who fought without fear of death, but as you noted, it was counterproductive in the long run. Tojo himself was not the most fanatical about this; it is noteworthy that he finally agreed to abandon Guadalcanal and called off the invasion of India after Kohima and Imphal, but throughout World War Two, there are countless cases of the Japanese fighting long past any reasonable hope of victory, or committing suicide instead of trying to live another day. Even more sickening, and this is something I am planning on bringing in to the Tojo article is that Battle of Saipan, when the Japanese government told the Japanese colonists on that island that the Americans were white devils who were going to eat them and their children; so the colonists murdered their own children and killed themselves by jumping off the cliffs of Saipan. It is criminal for a government for tell such an outrageous lie to its own people to get them to kill their own children and themselves. There were of things wrong with the United States in those days like the treatment of black Americans; but at least they could behaved with more decency than that. Despite the markedly racist quality to American anti-Japanese propaganda, the Americans were appalled by mass suicides at Saipan, and at the Battle of Okinawa, the American Army had Japanese-speakers broadcast a message over loudspeakers along the lines saying we are not cannibals, so please don’t kill your children or yourselves. Returning to the main point, this is not rational. Again, it can be explained only in terms of a death cult mentality that sees the willingness to kill and/or be killed as the only really important factor in war. A death cult is by definition is not rational. I am choosing my words here carefully here. I have no sympathy with Islam is evil school of thinking. However, there are different ways of interpreting Islam, just like there are different ways of interpreting Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Unfortunately, one of the possible, though not only interpretation of Islam, is the death cult mentality. A Sunni group like ISIS detests a Shia fundamentalist like Khomeini, but they both promote a death cult interpretation of Islam; the former more so than the latter, but the differences are degree rather of kind. Both al-Qaeda and Islamic State both like to taunt the West with a message that they are going to win because you love life while we love death. A variation is that the West will lose because Westerners love Coca-coke while they love death. Again, I am not saying all of Islam is a death cult (which is certainly not the case), but certainly the Islam as interpreted by groups like al-Qaeda and IS are death cults. At least Khomeini only sent enthusiastic teenage boys who were promised 72 virgins in heaven on suicidal attacks against the Iraqi lines, while saving his more experienced troops. Having said that much, one often gets the impression that Khomeini did not care if a battle was lost or won, just as long as he got a lot of his own people killed, which is sick. What all these people have in common despite all their differences, was or is the belief that in war, it is the side with the strongest will that wins, the side that fears the death will lose, and that all there is to it. As you have correctly noted, it was counterproductive in losing skilled men. That is why the Japanese lost so men in the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot-they had lost so pilots earlier in the war that to replace them, training standards had to be drastically lowered, meaning a bunch of guys who barely knew how to fly a plane were sent into the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, which is why they were annihilated by the U.S Navy. Ultimately, the Japanese came up with the ''Kamikaze'' corps, where barely trained pilots were sent to crash their planes into American ships because that was the best they could do. All I can say if one is in grips of a death cult, none of this really matters because you know you are stronger because you love death while the other side loves life. The most important, and the perhaps the reassuring point here is these people are wrong. If anything, their death cult way of thinking ensures that they lose, which has got to be a good thing.
			Sorry for getting off on a bad start, but thank you very much for your informative comments and interesting questions.--] (]) 03:20, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
			:I understand the individual death cult, but not when some Japanese applied it to the nation as a whole, apparently preferring that Japan be defeated rather than back down (there was even a faction which wanted to see Japan destroyed rather than surrender, following the atomic bomb drops). Didn't they understand that the nation being defeated would mean the end to training students in the Bushido code and therefore the end of Bushido itself ? So you get to the odd conclusion that belief in Bushido means they supported it's destruction.
			:Also, I see no evidence that there was ever an analysis of their chances of winning, losing, or achieving a draw, and the consequences of each outcome. It just seems bizarre to me that such a momentous decision with long-term consequences for their nation didn't merit a thoughtful discussion. ] (]) 15:03, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
			== editing my reply at the Reference desks ==
			Hi Sturat, with this change , you have changed the nature and intent of my edit and thereby changed the way others will perceive it. You make it look like I only meant to box up some of the comments in that subthread, when I intended to box them all up - in effect, you make it look like I agree with the comment you made when I do not. If you disagree with the hat, please undo the whole thing not part of it, and then discuss on talk page. Thanks. ] (]) 22:35, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
			:I do disagree with your hatting my contribution, which was intended to help the OP improve their English, which is what they had asked about. The comments following mine should be hatted, though, as they are the typical hate-speech from Ref Desk regulars, and contribute absolute nothing to improving the OP's English. ] (]) 17:37, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
			:I have now done as you suggested, removed your hat, and put mine in (with my signature). Also, you deleted my reply to Jack of Oz when you undid my hat. Please try to avoid doing that. ] (]) 17:44, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
			== Musical Term query on Ents Ref desk ==
			Re your recent question on the above, now archived: I can't suggest a term for what you describe, but I had a half-memory of a piece whose structure somewhat fitted it, which happened to be played on BBC Radio 4 this morning!
			The piece was ]'s tone poem ].
			Hope this is of interest. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ] (]) 21:48, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
			==Barnstar for You!==
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
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			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you very much for all of your hard work at the Misplaced Pages Reference Desk, StuRat! ] (]) 02:22, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks! ] (]) 02:23, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
			::No problem! Also, thank you very much for being the only one who tried answering my question here: ]. While I might have asked this question in a clumsy way, I also think that the reactions to this question were excessive. After all, I am supposed to forget all moments during my childhood years (specifically back when I was ages 9 to 17) when girls in my class and/or at my school wore short shorts or short skirts? ] (]) 02:11, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
			==Dare we hope?==
			Hi StuRat.
			Is it possible that you have finally seen sense and are acknowledging that ?
			Heavens be praised, the prodigal returns to the fold. Let spontaneous joy occur! :) -- ] </sup></span>]] 23:49, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
			:I never denied that this was the official way, I just choose not to use it. I would guess that there are some grammatical rules which you take a pass on, too. ] (]) 00:01, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
			:: Hmm, maybe, possibly, but I can't bring one to mind right now.
			:: It must be hard for you, though, to be constantly switching between using the official spelling in contexts where you deem it to be unavoidable, and your preferred apostrophised version wherever you (think you) can get away with it. Some people simply don't know the difference, and always use it's. There's something to be said for blissful ignorance, I guess. But once you know this, you can't unknow it. -- ] </sup></span>]] 00:33, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
			:::According to EO, "its" actually was written "it's" in older times. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 01:29, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
			::::Good to know: 'To "it's", the once and future form !' ] (]) 03:53, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
			:::::A Cockney baseball fan might say that Pete Rose is the all-time leader in 'it's. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 04:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
			==Disambiguation link notification for October 10==
			Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (&nbsp;|&nbsp;). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 10:53, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
			== Pronunciation of "fillet" ==
			Greetings. For a re-run of the arguments, see ], which quotes . That article says that "fillet" was first taken into the English language in the 14th century, at which time, the final "t" was probably pronounced in French, and "it could be that it was imported to the Americas at a time when its spelling had not yet settled down and the influence of French settlers headed it toward(s) the more modern French spelling and pronunciation".
			I am not posting this on the RefDesk, since I believe it would be a good idea to moderate our forays away from the actual question (no matter how fascinating), at least until such times as the wolves are not howling at our doors. Best regards, ] (]) 16:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
			:Yep, good idea. No matter how complex the etymology of this particular word may be, there does seem to be an attempt by the English to "Anglify" French words. Hence my point about them not particularly caring if they pronounce French city names correctly. And I would extend this to all soldiers in any foreign lands. ] (]) 01:43, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
			== "It's" ==
			:StuRat your absence from the Reference Desks <u>will be missed</u>. The present mess of unexplained strikouts of your own posts leaves a sour impression of pettiness that will take time to fade. When a healing time has passed both for the community and yourself, I look forward to you presenting a fresh face to Misplaced Pages, one that does not treat criticisms by other editors as errors to be debugged. Whether, and how you choose to appeal the ban will be up to you but I believe that applying the ] will serve you best. Show simply that you accomodate as valid the concerns that led to your ban, without necessarily proposing a new set of conditions for debate. If that is what you do, you may let me know and I would like to add to the friendly support expressed by other colleagues here. My small price is to be convinced that you will adopt ] in your usage of the apostrophe in "YOU'RE" () and use "ITS" without apostrophe (when appropriate, not just by your whim). ] (]) 16:37, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			::Your example doesn't seem to show the possessive form, where I choose to use the apostrophe against convention. That example shows the contraction for "it is", and there is no disagreement on use of the apostrophe there. I do, however, note that I mistakenly said "a oblate" when it should have been "an oblate". ] (]) 16:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::::"ITS" without apostrophe <u>is</u> the possessive form (actually the 3rd person singular possessive) and you are refusing to recognize that it exists in our language, apparently motivated by your expectation that your destiny is to teach Misplaced Pages a better(?) English. The facts that "it is" may be contracted as IT'S, and the use of "AN" before a noun that begins with a vowel, are not in dispute, so to reward your correct confirmations of them here is a story. On 19 November 1863 Abraham Lincoln had an all-day bout of ]s. Faithful to his presidential duties, he nevertheless struggled that day to deliver a prepared speech at ]. The event passed tolerably well because the speech, interspersed with hiccups, was not too long and the solemnity of the occasion precluded outright sniggers among those present. Nevertheless it is the hiccups that stayed in their memory, to the detriment of Lincoln's intended message which as a result, in this story, is lost to history instead of being cherished as ]. The story is a metaphor, where you are playing Lincoln and your whimsical superfluous apostrophes are his hiccups. There is no merit in persisting in distorting ITS to IT'S; the change merely forces the reader to pause and analyze what is your error that hinders sensible parsing of your sentence. No one will thank you for imposing that burden and, like sniggers at hiccups, it has probably contributed to the general annoyance of which you are now made forcibly aware. With undiminished respect for the contributions that you could make in the future, I see it as rational for Misplaced Pages to keep closed its door to you as long as you remain obsessed with an agenda to defy a basic grammatical convention that has been repeatedly explained to you. {{Template:User ITS}} ] (]) 18:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			==Random gnome edit==
			Start doing random gnome edits, like I do. Main space editing is the major reason for being on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 17:01, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			:I don't understand "random gnome edit". ] (]) 17:02, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			::Hit the ''random article'' button & look for any spelling errors (for example) on articles. That's what I've been doing for years, check out my contribs. Spelling corrections, fixing birth/death intros, dashes, etc. is what I usually do. ] (]) 17:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::Thanks, but that sounds really boring. If I happen to look up something and find an error while there, I will fix that. ] (]) 17:06, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			::::I too, found it boring, at first. But, it changes your approach & thinking on Misplaced Pages & slowy restores your status in the community. Right now, 75% of my edits are to 'main space'. That's a jump from 39% in 2011. More work/less talk is the best way, I found. ] (]) 17:10, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::::I'd have to do somewhere around 262,000 main space edits to make it to 75% main space edits (plus 3x as many non-main space edits as I make during that time). I will probably be dead before that could happen. But I'm not happy with Misplaced Pages, anyway, particularly the lack of civility. Not only do Admins not stop it, they are quite often the source. Instead, I shall look for a more pleasant environment to work. I've contributed some to ], and found that to be a more friendly environment, so I may go there. ] (]) 17:23, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			::::::Don't blame the admins, blame the community (or rather the miniscule fraction thereof who frequent ANI) who refuse to support the admins in enforcing civility. We are self-governed. Any admin who took a strong stand on civility in the current environment would find him/herself without a mop (after a few months of pure hell). &#8213;]&nbsp;] 18:21, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			== belated missive ==
			I'm sorry it came to this, and I'm sorry I didn't manage to get an oppose !vote in (not that it looks like it would have mattered in the end).
			I do think you were often too quick to speculate on questions you should have left alone, but I don't think you deserved a ban. But the vitriol of a crowd on a self-righteous crusade can be a scary thing. —] (]) 13:24, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			:Thanks for the support. ] (]) 16:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			== See you around ==
			:See you around Stu. I was hoping people could at least offer some kind of probationary period of good faith, but apparently not. I think it spells doom for one or two other ref desk regulars who frequently perform much "worse" than you ever did. Good luck spending all the time you spent at the ref desks doing something else. ] (]) 17:18, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			::Maybe not. If they felt the need for a ritual sacrifice, they've now gotten it out of their system for a while. ] (]) 21:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::I threw myself on your pyre, Hope you don't mind. You were a good rat, all things considered. ] ] 02:01, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
			::::Thanks. BTW, I have an ] joke I should tell you, since you seem to be a fan: ]: "Don't get me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." ... "I'm sure you're right, because I don't even like you now." :-) ] (]) 15:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::::I don't really like him, either. ''David'' Banner was alright. My name is actually a lazy ripoff of Common mistake, no worries. ] ] 23:15, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
			::::::Odd, it did redirect to the Hulk page, and Stan Lee is known for using the same letter in first and last names of his characters. BTW, your link didn't work. ] (]) 01:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
			:::::::] was my favourite alliteration, if we don't count ] as a Marvel character. My (allegedly) broken link is to the legal origin story of Spiderman had his own knockoff wrestler, but not famous enough for good allusion. battling the evil Lou Fabiano (not to be confused with ], from ]). ] ] 19:09, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
			== Credit where credit is due ==
			You conducted yourself with exemplary calmness and open-mindedness throughout the ordeal. I'm sorry it did not work out well. ] (]) 20:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			:Thanks for your support. I was willing to listen, but they weren't. ] (]) 21:46, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
			== Thanks for your support ==
			...those of you who offered it, that is. I'm going to semi-retire from Misplaced Pages now. I'll probably stop in to check on messages from time to time, and if I happen to run across a Misplaced Pages article that needs a grammar or spelling fix, I might do that (at least until I need to add a ref to prove that my spelling is correct). And I'll also do some archiving on this page, as it's gotten rather long. So, see you all around. ] (]) 15:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
			== ] arbitration case request archived ==
			Hi StuRat. The ] arbitration case request, submitted 30 October 2017, has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. Thanks, ''']''' (<small>aka</small> ]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; ]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; ]) 00:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
			== ArbCom 2017 election voter message ==
			{{Ivmbox|Hello, StuRat. Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
			The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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Latest revision as of 00:59, 15 December 2023

Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end. Start a new talk topic.

Some of my correct Ref Desk answers

(Under construction.)

Science Math Computers and Electronics Miscellaneous Humanities Language Entertainment

Archives

Proper use of talk threads: Example question

What are some cool irrational numbers used in math ? User:OP

Well, there's always pie. User:BOB

But that's 22/7, which is rational. User:MARY

No, 22/7 is just an approximation, the real number is irrational. User:BOB

Isn't it spelled pi ? User:Joe

Oops, typo. User:BOB

How about e ? User:MICKEY

What's that ? User:OP

See our article here....

Vicious comments from others (and a few that aren't)

Award

Thanks ! ...wouldn't you know my first award would be for being a smart ass ? StuRat 02:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The E=MC² Barnstar
		For your extraordinary contributions to Misplaced Pages reference desks, I award you this EMC² Barnstar. Keep up the good work! deeptrivia (talk) 03:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I maynot be qualified enough to award anything but I can surely support the barnstar you got. Good on you mate! you certainly deserve it ... (My IP address is not permanent.) As per your request I put the four tildes. 202.161.131.69 19:17, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, too ! StuRat 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Puns and jokes

Here are some puns and jokes from the Ref Desk:

I don't know if this fits your request, but I was always delighted by the word "predate": to pray upon and to pre-date! --151.51.62.111 (talk) 11:18, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

That's actually to "prey upon". Saying "pray upon" would altar the meaning. :-) StuRat (talk) 14:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Can African hunting dogs be bread with normal domestic dogs. Can Australian Dingo's be bread with African hunting dogs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 12:12, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

If you ground all those dogs up and put them in a pan with some dough, then cooked for an hour, then yes, they could all be bread together, regardless of how they've been bred separately. :-) StuRat (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

StuRat, your bias is oozing all over the place. 169.139.217.79 (talk) 14:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

If I'm equally biased against everyone, doesn't that make me balanced (while simultaneously unbalanced)? :-) StuRat (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Which logical fallacy is inherent in the following argument(putting aside the question of whether either statement is true): "Darwin recanted on his deathbed; therefore the theory of evolution must be false"? 137.151.174.176 (talk) 20:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

It could be the genetic fallacy, meaning that a man's otherwise decent theory is considered inherently specious, based on it's origin. StuRat (talk) 20:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Reference Desk and unicorns

Notwithstanding what it may say about me that I haven't written apropos of any of your quality responses to sundry questions posed at the various Reference Desks but that I write now about a jocular comment, I must commend your unicorn leapfrogging entry, about which I laughed a good deal. I should say, of course, that I find msot of your answers to be altogether excellent and that I think excellence in responding to questions at the Reference Desks is to be admired, inasmuch as the Reference Desk is often the first location at which non-Wikipedians encounter Misplaced Pages and its editors, such that one's being well-treated at the Reference Desk may lead one to partake of the editing work, improving the project writ large. Joe 01:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! And you managed to say it all in just two sentences, LOL. StuRat 01:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

(My unicorn leapfrog comment: "Confucius say: The truly wise man never plays leapfrog with the unicorn".) StuRat (talk) 02:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Reference Desk

Thank you for pointing out the template on the Ottoman capitals, I guess I was too busy looking for the capitals in the article to notice. By the way, those are a lot of edits you have. | AndonicO 12:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat 12:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh StuRat, Canada stands on guard for thee as we commend you for your incredible selfless robot-like diligence in maintain intergalactic order at RD. I seriously hope you're not getting in shit at work for doing this. I'm not really sure what's happened to all the bot requests, but for the moment I have started laying out a make-shift RD that could be used to transfer the existing pages into a new stream-lined interface once there is a bot willing to handle all of the archiving. After the front page is expanded to include all the rules and stuff, I'm going to add a new RD template to each of the subpages, and see where I can go from there.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  05:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Cool. And thanks. StuRat 06:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I've worked your reference to the previous months archive into the template directly, so it's now a part of the top bar--152.163.100.136 18:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, but is this Fresh ? Just forgot to log in ? StuRat 18:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Nope.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  01:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, either that or I'm VectorPotential (: The date math in the current version of the template is so twisted I figured I was the only one who would be able to update it at this point (: Even if I am too busy with university work to continue hands-on RD maintenance work -- 172.147.144.217 17:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yea, that date math confused me. StuRat 17:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

If I have some free time this weekend I'll try and template-ify some of the date math, to make the header less cluttered. Also, there's still one minor glitch concerning the years, sort of going to be a problem once we get to 2007.--172.165.196.210 10:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, cool. StuRat 10:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, that didn't work, just made it more buggy and over complicated--Molecular Hamiltonian 19:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, now it does work, but only with subst--Molecular Hamiltonian 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.

Hey, just a quick thanks for helping with my question on Reference/Science: "In tides, why is the eighth wave always the largest?". You're answer was really helpful. Robinoke 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 22:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Barnstars

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		Sorry this is (very) late, but I had meant to give you a barnstar for your comment at the reference desk a few months ago. In answer to how copper wiring was made you said: "Two thrifty Scots found the same penny at the same time." Thank you for lightening up Misplaced Pages. | AndonicO Talk 11:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Och Aye but isnt that a bit racialist these days? Plus if you said that in Glasgow.... well I wouldnt! 8-)--Light current 11:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! I'm partially Scottish myself, and very cheap, so claim the right to make fun of myself. StuRat 12:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah so it was you and your brother who found that penny? 8-)

Chianti and fava beans,

Before you break out the Chianti and fava beans, ...

Well done, StuRat, well done! :-)

Atlant 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Mathematics Ref Desk

Thanks for trying to help me at the ref desk,I'm afraid maths isn't my strong point.Also,it was really kind of you to actually do the problem yourself.I promise I'll read more about maths so that I don't annoy you too much with my silly questions :) Starkidstar 06:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. If you'll go ahead and list how you did it I will look for any errors. StuRat 06:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to second that. Legolover26 (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

XMAS colors

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		When asked why red and green are Christmas colors, you said:"I did have another theory about why red and green are the XMAS colors, but I think it's probably only my family who celebrates XMAS by putting frogs in blenders." I keep wondering how many of these you are going to get... | AndonicO 16:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 16:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. But thank yourself too; you earned it, and made me laugh very hard in the process. :-) | AndonicO 17:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again, my goal in life is to make everyone wet their pants. (I secretly own the company that makes Depends.) StuRat 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well then, get back into life! ;-) | AndonicO 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Is "get back into life" their slogan ? I thought it was "good to the last drop". :-) StuRat 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well that too. :-) | AndonicO 19:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Now if it didnt seem like sycophancy or loyalty or something, I would award StuRat with something! Im not sure what yet! Lets wait and see what comes to mind.--Light current 00:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you give him a barnstar; it wouldn't look good if I gave him two in a row. | AndonicO 00:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

My respect for StuRat is worth more than a truckload of Barnstars!--Light current 01:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur; I won't say "more than a shipload" because it would seem childish.

What we need is an award for StuRat putting up with gigatons of irrelevant bullshit presented as coherent and sensible argument--Light current 01:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What, you mean they aren't coherent and sensible arguments? ;-) | AndonicO 01:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

more on RD

Hi - I hope I didn't offend you with my latest comments on the talk thread. I get the impression you are sincerely trying to find a path to a solution and very much appreciate the effort you're putting into this. Like I say, I'm busy in real life at the moment so don't have (and will not soon have) much time to participate in this discussion. I suspect this whole thing has been quite upsetting for you - please don't give up. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 16:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For a funny comment at the expense of Microsoft: "I actually like the name 'Windows' for the O/S, as it accurately portrays how paneful it is to use." I recieved a barnstar for a similar comment so I thought I'd spread the love froth 20:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

LOL

Loved the chicken farmer joke. Bet it is nuked before midnight, though. Gandalf61 18:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

That would surely be fowl play! Where is it anyway. Post a link--Light current 18:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Glad you liked the joke, here it is: Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Humanities#Nobel_Prize_Laureate.....28Women.29. StuRat 18:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

And here's a copy, in case it gets deleted:

A chicken farmer had a problem rooster that was stressing out the hens with "unwanted attentions" and solved the problem by putting a bell around the rooster's neck to give the hens adequate warning. However, the rooster soon learned to silence the bell by covering it with a wing, allowing him to once again sneak up on the hens. For his study of this amazing example of animal reasoning and learning, a noted professor has received both the "No bell piece prize" and the "Pullet surprise". :-) StuRat 15:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

This really is pulling our Leghorns--Light current 19:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Howdy StuRat. It's a cute play on words, but your comment didn't really do anything to help answer the poster's question. Please, take pity on the dial-up users of the Ref Desk. If you'd like to share jokes with other editors, consider using their talk pages or email in the future. Heck, create a section in your user space; I'm sure it would be well-subscribed.

Nobody's going to 'nuke' your remark; it doesn't attack anyone and is unlikely to offend. I'm just dropping in to ask you to remember the purpose of the Ref Desk (it's there to answer questions). If you want to tell a joke on the Desk, try to work some useful information into it—that way everyone is happy. Cheers, TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I do try to do that, but this joke was at least related to the topic. I use that as a bare minimum requirement. StuRat 19:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Its good to see you have Standards, Stu! 8-)--Light current 19:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed.EricR 23:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for at least notifying me. However, your comment that it was "off topic" is incorrect, as both the joke and topic were on the Nobel Prize. StuRat 23:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

There's more to being on-topic on the ref desk than just being vaguely related to the question; there's also the matter of actually helping to answer the question. The ref desk, after all, is for answering questions. -- SCZenz 23:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Answering the question and being on topic are two quite different issues. For example, a request for a clarification is on topic, but doesn't answer the question, just like this joke. StuRat 23:23, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Being on-topic for the page means asking or answering a question, or doing something that works toward answering a question (like a request for clarification). -- SCZenz 23:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

You've got a whole new def of "on topic" there, but is this really worth arguing about ? Call it whatever you want, I don't care to fight about it. Let's just agree to disagree peacefully, shall we ? StuRat 23:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that what we call it isn't important. I think we agree that the reference desk should be used primarily for asking and working on answering questions, at least. -- SCZenz 23:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Primarily, yes. Exclusively, no. Building a sense of community is also important. And, sometimes, that can be facilitated with humor. StuRat 23:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

You cannot be serious! 8-)--Light current 23:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicotine Addiction

Thanks. Your answer to my question about the addictiveness of nicotine at the reference desk was exactly what I was looking for. BeefJeaunt 03:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome, and good luck on your report ! StuRat 03:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I THough Nicotine Addiction Was Bad].184.163.238.18 (talk) 15:49, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Fundamentals of marketing

That was an awesome, AWESOME answer. Anchoress 18:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 18:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to second that. I just about choked on my coffee, when I saw that and laughed. Nice job!! Antandrus (talk) 18:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome, and here's a link for those who missed it: . StuRat 18:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for Helping Me Out!

Dear StuRat,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question about the equation of a line. I really appreciate it =) Alex Ng 19:49, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 20:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

abridged too far

Hello - irrespective of all the issues all the regular Ref Desk posters are discussing, just wanted to express my appreciation for your most apt replies. "Abridged too far" really made me smile! Wonderful! Happy New Year --Geologyguy 00:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very gneiss of you. (I don't want you to think I'm stoned or anything, I just have quite an apatite for puns, especially puns that rock. If I leave a pun out, I feel like I might gypsum body.) StuRat 01:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

WTF are you talcing about?--Light current 02:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thats another one chalked up! Any Moh's?--Light current 02:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

We're starting to accumulate quite a conglomerate of puns here. StuRat 02:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No schist! --Geologyguy 03:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No you mean aggregate--Light current 02:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think someone should get slated for al these terrible puns 8-)--Light current 03:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It seams to me that you only have yourself to blame. David D. (Talk) 18:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Eh?--Light current 19:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Look up seam. I guess if you have to explain the pun it doesn't really work.David D. (Talk) 19:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I lost my apatite, as much as I enjoyed the "abridged too far." It's not that I beryl will to ya'll, but this is too much. Shame there seams to be no article on seam--it's absence diabases the value of Misplaced Pages. KP Botany 20:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is unseamly. It stings that there isn't even an article on the song We Work the Black Seam; somebody should call the content police. StuRat 20:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Chertainly we should mica note of its absense in the disambig page. David D. (Talk) 21:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

OK I understand mica, but WTFs note got to do with it? Youll have to do better than this on the RDs! 8-)--Light current 21:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't notice StuRat's change of course? We're now going over a clef with the police in tow. At least we'll get a good view of the strata on the way down. David D. (Talk) 22:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I thought we could double our pun if we bass them on both geology and music. Perhaps I should add another topic so we can treble our punishment ? StuRat 22:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Dunite. KP Botany 22:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I shale call that a day. Unless any one thinks otherwise.--Light current 22:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

A stalag mite be the right punishment for bad punners.Edison 23:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Stalagmites are attached at the bottom and stalactites at the top, so what do you call them if they're attached at both ends ? A mitey-tite, of course. StuRat 00:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Of cuourse one easy way to tell the difference (as one of my old GFs told me) is that 'Tites' always come down! BTW do you get a prize for having the longest pun run?--Light current 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Free Beer

Thanks for the comment on my userpage, the joke got a good laugh out of me at work, which is always good :D Aetherfukz 14:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, just try not to laugh while the boss is announcing his goals for the year. (Here's the joke: ). StuRat 16:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Your puns

Just wanted to let you know, I think your puns are great! I especially like the one about the vandalism to the Ireland related article raising someone's "ire". Good stuff, dude! Dismas| 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Ingemar's antics in My Life as a Dog

Woof woof arf bark whine bark. (Equal parts not wanting to give too much away and being *gasp* a bit of a prude.) Clarityfiend 03:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

But I have an inquiring mind and I want to know ! For example, does Ingemar prefer Coke or Pepsi bottles ? :-) StuRat 16:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ref Desk

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For always making me chuckle at the Ref Desk! Adrian M. H. 19:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, deserved for the "splitting hares" comment alone. A pun par excellence. Rockpocket 20:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup. StuRat 20:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Bearnstar

		Bearnstar for a joke so unbelievably lame, it made me laugh
		I wanted to award you a barnstar for making me laugh, but unfortunately it was eaten by a bear. Rockpocket 05:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Does "eaten by a bear" mean it was deleted ? StuRat 15:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Haha. I hope that is a clever joke (or else paranoia really is getting the better of you). No, it doesn't mean that, the link explains. Rockpocket 17:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, where have you been? I could have done with your support recently when a harmless joke I made was unilaterally removed. Typical, just when I need some inclusionist support, they all go awol. Rockpocket 17:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I had to do some actual work (gasp !). Do you have a link to the joke ? Is it too late to support it ? StuRat 01:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, too late, I'm afraid. Actually it wasn't the removal itself that I was bothered with (a joke is a joke, and I'm not about to claim something so flippant deserves to remain if another editor thinks it inappropriate) it was the unwarranted accusation in the edit summary of the removal.

By the way, Loomis is a hair's breadth away from being indef blocked again. I'm lobbying to give him one last chance, though I'm not sure it will carry. I don't know if you have any influence with him, or if you even care, but if you do it really would be helpful if you could impress on him that it he has a stark choice to make. Rightly or wrongly, fair or unfair, this is how it is and he has got to accept that or he will be unwelcome here for an indefinite period. Rockpocket 08:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

"Incarated"

Thanks for the chuckle, StuRat. Bielle 23:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat 23:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Hobo etc....

Thanks for the info, loved the song in the nineties but never realised what it was all about...! SietskeEN 12:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC) (But it is a lot less decent than I expected it to be... :-O )

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 13:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

you don't happen to understand lojban

do you?lucid 03:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

No, but then again, I rather enjoy the ambiguous nature of English words, since that allows for the formation of puns. StuRat 03:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Way to read a sentence that I had intended to come off as a joke with an extremely serious tone and make a comment about the ambiguity present in the english language, thus forcing me to make a sentence that is completely unambiguous. Until you find a way to point out the ambiguity --lucid 03:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, since you wrote "english" in lower case, you must not mean the language, but rather the term which means "spin" as in "put some english on the ball". Therefore, your comment regards the "spin language", AKA, the language of politicians. :-) StuRat 03:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you play Six degrees of separation, by chance? --lucid 04:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Not since Kevin Bacon filed that restraining order. :-) StuRat 04:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For your RD work Pheonix15 20:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

wunderground.com

Thanks for recommending Weather Underground in WP:RD/C. Weather.com was killing me on dialup, and http://forecast.weather.gov/ doesn't have the hourly forecast. Wunderground seems to beat the both. What a great site. / edg ☺ ★ 13:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You're quite welcome, glad you like it ! StuRat 13:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wunderground is also one of my favourite sites, and I'm so glad to see it being recommended :) Skittle 12:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Christmas Carols

Here's my own version of two songs:

Winter Wonderland

In the winter we can build a snow man,

then some kids 'll come and kick it down...

We'll ask 'em if they did it,

they'll say "no, man"...

then we'll rub their faces in the ground.

Then we'll sit, and perspire,

as we set their coats on fire...

Then we'll make 'em walk home,

when it's twenty below...

walking through a winter wonderland,

...walking through a winter wonderland.

Silver Balls

People pointing, people laughing,

At the gym and doctor's,

I'm starting to hate...

being naked.

Silver Balls, Silver Balls...

I've taken too much colloidal silver.

Silver Balls, Silver Balls...

I've taken too much, by far.

StuRat (talk) 03:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Humour

		Misplaced Pages Happy Funnel Award
		StuRat, for your merry contribution at the Refdesk here and brave signs of romantic idealism, I hereby endow you with the Funnel Award to be used very carefully. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ! Now if only I can think of something romantic to do with a funnel... StuRat (talk) 23:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

You will. If anyone can, you will, : )) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

:-) StuRat (talk) 12:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You have been in extremely good form lately

As in "Waiting for Mister Right." Edison (talk) 05:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks...and if the young, fictional woman who made that comment was criticized for her actions, I suppose she could always turn the other cheek (or perhaps a deaf ear). StuRat (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

RefDesk

Thank you for your response. This has been a really difficult time for my friend and the gang has been having a difficult time consoling him. I'm going to read the article you linked me carefully. Thanks again. --Endless Dan 20:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome. You sound like a good friend. StuRat (talk) 20:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

economics

I enjoyed the conversation over economics. We should have another soon. I did read your article on "diseconomies of scale", and I was impressed by your knowledge on the subject. I need about 20 more hours in the field before I complete my degree. I'd like to run by you some of the advanced elective courses and get your opinion on where my time is best spent.

Thanks

Paul Balfay NiceG3s (talk) 13:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. I will also try to convince you that Bush is an idiot. I think you're about the only person who still thinks he was a good President. Amazingly, fiscal conservatives aren't happy with him, due to the massive expansion of the national debt (because of Iraq and little effort to reign in social programs), and religious conservatives are mad at him for not addressing any of their issues, like banning abortion and gay marriage. StuRat (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I Lol'd

. :) --Sean 13:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thx ! StuRat (talk) 13:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

You're still mr. wonderfull (of toe jam) to me. Only you could pull off having your foot iin your mouth with aplombb. X-) Julia Rossi (talk) 08:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but when Little Jack Horner embarasses himself, he puts his foot in his mouth with a plumb. :-) StuRat (talk) 13:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Haha. Are you hanging with Cookatoo lately?

I suppose I'll have to, as it's too late to hang with him earlyly. :-) StuRat (talk) 01:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Timbre!

Next you'll be saying that if I edit articles on abbeys in Westmeath, I must yell "fore!" first! :-D --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 14:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, if that's the rule you want to implement, I'd be happy to abbey, although, I'm sure, others would want nun of it. StuRat (talk) 14:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about a "rule", that seems like process monkery, which is a cardinal sin as you know. --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 15:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

greenlight a movie

Thanks for your answer! So if the answer is "studio executives", then who might typically be on this panel who greenlights the project? Would it be the producer and director together? Or maybe some sort of executive in charge of finances? --Sonjaaa (talk) 21:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

More of the latter, I would think. At that point in the process the producer and director may not even have been chosen, yet. I would expect a team of accountants would have to OK the pic before that. StuRat (talk) 21:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Where you been?

Hi StuRat, missing you, hope all is well... Julia Rossi (talk) 04:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Julia, and thanks for the kind word. I injured my back and wasn't feeling up to using the computer much (sitting at the chair was painful). It's getting better now, so hopefully I can use the computer at least a bit. StuRat (talk) 02:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back! (sorry about that goddorfl pun) of course meaning get well soon. Sorry about your injury and a big one at that. It's so nice to see your post at the ent desk. =) take care, Julia Rossi (talk) 07:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll let that crack slide. Does that mean I'm spineless ? I wish ! Those lucky octopuses ! (Or is it octopi ? ... no, that's a pie shaped like a stop sign, isn't it ?) {Note that I've included a link on "stop sign", just in case Aussie stop signs are shaped like wombats.} :-) StuRat (talk) 17:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

No, it's exactly like the ones I ignore over here. ; ) but whenever there's a wombat one, I do take notice. Julia Rossi (talk) 21:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Then you should start a movement to have all stop signs there changed to the shape of wombats, so Aussies will actually notice them. :-) StuRat (talk) 09:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

haha, good one. Coincidentally I stopped for three ducks crossing today, (and there was a ducks sign). Awww, : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 08:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A sign for ducks crossing right where they cross ? I'm impressed. The Aussie road crews obviously have all their ducks in a row... :-) StuRat (talk) 14:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah SR, if you could see our crews, you'd know it was the ducks getting it together,  :-) Julia Rossi (talk) 03:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Good form

I enjoy seeing you in good form on the desks, very fungi, as ever, helpful too –  : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 07:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm just glad there's 'shroom for humor at the Desks. StuRat (talk) 13:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

If not, we can start a nitting circle. =) Julia Rossi (talk) 03:29, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, picking nits off with nitting needles sounds as hard as picking rice up with chopsticks. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I presume anyone who drives through blizzards to find buzzards at Christmas is merely being modest. (You could try it with chopsticks, this is a post-modern-type nitting circle) ; ) Julia Rossi (talk) 05:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I have a four-wheel drive truck, so driving through inclement weather is no problem, especially when one considers the added traction provided by all those subcompacts I drive over. StuRat (talk) 17:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You must have this...

Happy Christmas from Australia!

Happy Christmas, Sturat. After dose gypfies! "They'll steal your eye teeth" ~ wishing you every success dealing with snowmen vandals ~ from Julia R. o<| =)

Julia Rossi (talk) 00:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ! I was afraid to open the card, thinking I'd find an elf peeking out of a kangaroo's pouch. StuRat (talk) 13:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The kangaroo would be even more afraid! Ching ching ching, ching ching ching... Julia Rossi (talk) 08:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Yea, those pointy elf shoes could really hurt momma roo. (Maybe that's why some of them are curled up at the end ?) StuRat (talk) 14:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Jet fuel

I wanted to say some personal Thank You! for answering my questions about jet fuel. It really helped to somewhat clear my mind and research topic farther. Vitall (talk) 08:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. StuRat (talk) 14:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thanks for answering my Band Planet question on the Reference Desk! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 07:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I hope such questions are never banned,

...as that would leave us with questions which are only bland. StuRat (talk) 14:22, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Pianissimo forte

Trust you to invent music terrorism, >)) Julia Rossi (talk) 08:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, by dropping a piano on a crowd. And here I thought "musical" terrorism was those people who play their car stereos so loud that their tires rarely touch the ground. StuRat (talk) 17:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

You might also appreciate my Unclyclopedia entry for Ethan Allen: . StuRat (talk) 17:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I see EA is your thought-ancestor of furniture terrorism. Did he invent buzzword terrorism in defeating the French oops British? Looks like music terrorism keeps its definition as per the bouncing car and there's an item I don't know the name of, an enclosed van with levels to burst people's ear drums in the few seconds they stay inside. Apparently the noise forces them to enjoy brief pain, then quickly quit. Is there an article on this kind of thing? *hint hint* :) Julia Rossi (talk) 01:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Strangely, my Unclyclopedia article appears to have been expunged, with no reason given. I'm guessing that they have a "no violence jokes" policy that even extends to historical, fictional violence during war. StuRat (talk) 15:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

That was quick. Can you get a pee review? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

A pee review ? "It was a pale yellow, with a nice frothy head of foam...". :-) StuRat (talk) 22:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

This one, for bringing doomed articles back from extinction (apparently). Ewww, Julia Rossi (talk) 01:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

And do they call for a pee review when they suspect "yellow journalism" ? :-) StuRat (talk) 14:20, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you SR

I completely forgot about disturbing the peace, disrupting traffic, and all sorts of offenses that only apply when the prosecutor is hard up. Come to think of it, if he played badly enough he would be making one big noise that would eliminate many smaller noises (i.e. his playing). Maybe he can use that as a positive defense. Phil_burnstein (talk) 01:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

This reminds me of the Lorena Bobbitt case. If nothing else, they should have at least convicted her of littering. :-) StuRat (talk) 15:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello.

Hello friend StuRat, I am a new user in Misplaced Pages. Today I've been gazing through the computing reference desk and watching the others to contribute. I've seen that you are interested in the field of Science and Maths (as posted by you in your User Page). In fact, I am interested in those fields too. Then if I personally discuss with you about Science and Maths on your talk page, will you mind something? If not, will you kindly permit me to do the same? Thank you. Anirban16chatterjee (talk) 16:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Furthur, I present you the tireless contributor's barnstar for your nice contributions in the Computing Reference Desk Anirban16chatterjee (talk) 16:12, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure, we can discuss science or math here. However, if you have a specific question, the Ref Desk Science or Math pages might be better, as then you will get my contributions and the contributions of others. The others can be a bit mean, though, at times, so you can come here to talk if you feel abused. Also, thanks for the barnstar ! StuRat (talk) 16:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot friend! I often use the reference desk, but I think it is good for me to keep in touch with someone like you, who is endowed with the golden light of knowledge, for my betterment. And, you obviously deserved the barnstar. Thank you friend, see you again. -Best Regards, Anirban16chatterjee (talk) 16:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

The RefDesk

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		This is obviously not the first time you've received this award, but there's no such thing as too many barnstars, especially when they're well deserved! Thanks for your helpful and bite free answers. :-) Crackthewhip775 (talk) 05:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 05:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Farts and Stuff

Thanks for the Beano Advice. I'll take you up on the Yogurt with Cultures. I'm reading this book on Salt by Mark Kurlansky. In it he mentions cheese making. page 97, 'Rennet contains Rennin, an enzyme in the stomach of mammals wich curdles milk to make it digestible.' Could this Rennin be taken as a supplement maybe? I read the wiki articles, something about infant calfs developing stomachs, in the 4th stomach we find this Rennet, it curdles the milk to make it stay in the digestive tract longer for breaking it down longer. Can we say, add some Rennin to our Ovaltine? Cheers,--i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 20:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You could do that, but it might not taste very good. You can also get rennin and lactase (a milk digestion enzyme), in tablets, here: . If you don't like buying things over the internet, try a store like GNC. StuRat (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thanks for answering my To Catch A Predator question on the Humanities Reference desk! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, and here's a permalink: Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2009_November_11#Legality_of_To_Catch_a_Predator. StuRat (talk) 20:10, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thanks for your help on WP:RD/MA! PerfectProposal 19:37, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

IP comment

Some IP (since blocked as an evader) suggested you and I were the same user. Should we tell them, or keep them wondering? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

So were you cloned from my toenail clippings or was I cloned from yours ? :-) StuRat (talk) 04:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about you, but I was cloned from the tonail clippings of Henny Youngman. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 06:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's better than being cloned from Henny Penny, as many others at the Ref Desk appear to be, based on how they think the sky is falling every time someone cracks a joke. StuRat (talk) 14:30, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Good point. Sometimes it reminds me of Graham Chapman's military character, who complained that the Monty Python sketches were getting "silly": "No one enjoys a good joke more than I do! Uh, except for the Colonel... and my wife... and some of her friends... come to think of it, everyone enjoys a good joke more than I do! But no matter!..." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Right, we need to send them all of for re-education at the Ministry of Silly Walks. StuRat (talk) 15:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Sometimes I feel like I'm in The Argument Sketch. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Or talking with Gumbys. StuRat (talk) 15:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

thanks

for the answer on the computing refdesk!Gzuckier (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 01:33, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Super job!

The Refdesk Barnstar Thanks for Take Five -- exactly what I needed! DRosenbach

You're welcome ! StuRat (talk) 07:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For your Usefulness in General, and for finding Erastianism in Particular μηδείς (talk) 21:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 21:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

ASCII Art barnstar

For your ASCII images at WP:RD I hereby award you this ASCII art barnstar (created by Steve Baker). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

         /\
        /**\
_______/****\_______
*.******/^^\******.*
  *.***( () )***.*
    *.**\,./**.*
     /**.**.**\
    /*.*    *.*\
   /.*        *.\
   '            `

LOL, thanks. StuRat (talk) 20:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

File:PNHP poster.jpg	For being awesome on the Reference Desk
	Please accept this Physicians for a National Health Program poster in kind thanks for all the spectacular work I see you do quite often at the Reference Desks. Dualus (talk) 04:12, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 13:26, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Outstanding improvements made to the new article Otium. Doug Coldwell 19:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 19:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Nice...

. I'm still chuckling. My wife thinks I'm crazy. Thanks for that! --Jayron32 02:17, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

As an aside, it's probably time to archive this page. Its becoming difficult to load it all... --Jayron32 02:18, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Yep, you're right. StuRat (talk) 12:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Dems/GOP

I just wanna say this is the best summary of the two parties I've ever seen. Cheers. Hot Stop talk-contribs 15:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 15:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	thanks for the physics help Paradoxical 0^2 (talk) 06:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat (talk) 06:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiThanks

Thanks for your recent contributions! 66.87.0.137 (talk) 13:46, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Any in particular ? StuRat (talk) 16:57, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

An award for you

Golden Wiki Award In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.2.33 (talk) 23:05, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 23:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Lol

This made me laugh. Thanks. Shadowjams (talk) 23:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. I would thank you for your comment, but that would be, well...

StuRat (talk) 23:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

		The Modest Barnstar
		You are among the top 5% of most active Wikipedians this past month! 66.87.0.140 (talk) 22:51, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 23:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to thank you for the work on the 3D to 2D generation

I have to first offer about a million apologies for not writing a note on the reference desk sooner. The code you wrote was very daunting (and still is) and I kept procrastinating understanding it properly and converting it. The images you just added help enormously as well! This is exactly the effect I'm looking for.

As for the code, give me a little more time. I may have follow-up questions here for you. Sorry again that you didn't get more limelight while the question was more prominent, it is just really hard for me to start using. (This is probably why there aren't highly accessible tutorials online, and why I had to ask you for help with this in the first place).

I know you're a volunteer contributor, and I didn't mean to be ungrateful. Thank you again, this is hard work!!! --80.99.254.208 (talk) 18:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks (I was starting to worry that you had dropped dead). I'd be glad to help with any additional questions you have or clarifications needed on what I posted. StuRat (talk) 18:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I just reviewed my code at the Ref Desk (Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Computing/2012_April_18#how_hard_is_2.5_d), and one thing I might change is the name of the variables "V_SHRINK_STEP" and "H_SHRINK_STEP". "V_SHRINK_RANGE" and "H_SHRINK_RANGE" would have been better (or "VShrinkRange" and "HShrinkRange" in C variable names). Also, you'll note in my last pic that having the image darken as it approaches the vanishing point really helps in making it look 3D. I didn't include the code to do that in my example, to simplify it, but would be glad to give you an example of that code, once you master the basics. StuRat (talk) 19:13, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, if you just can't get it to work at all, I can provide you with a FORTRAN executable. This could be run using a "system" call from C, etc. In that case, I'd have it read all the arguments from one input file and the bitmap from another, to avoid all the ugliness that happens when trying to pass arguments between C and FORTRAN. It would then write the projected bitmap to a new file. StuRat (talk) 19:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Bedrock City thanks

Thanks for the reply to my question about Bedrock City's Mt. Rockmore. I should have read the WP article. -- Zanimum (talk) 23:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'm often amazed at the info we have in our articles, myself. StuRat (talk) 02:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For work on the reference desk. Thank you. Legolover26 (talk) 18:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 03:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you !

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to give your input to my questions. It is appreciated. InforManiac (talk) 20:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 20:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question (and surely others!) at the reference desk, and providing a link to NutritionData.com. The input and links I received from those responses has been really valuable! All the best,

  — Jess· Δ♥ 04:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Looks like I better put out a saucer of milk. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

RFA nomination

GiantBluePanda would like to nominate you to become an administrator. Please visit Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then contact GiantBluePanda to accept or decline the nomination. A page will then be created for your nomination at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/StuRat. If you accept the nomination, you must state and sign your acceptance. You may also choose to make a statement and/or answer the optional questions to supplement the information your nominator has given. Once you are satisfied with the page, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.

your nominator has now asked that the page be deleted due to your apparent lack of response. I'd prefer to be sure that is your intention before doing so. Beeblebrox (talk)

Yea, go ahead. I don't like the way the "Adminship for Life" works here, I'd like it be easier to become one, but be term-limited and far easier to be kicked out. As is, it seems to encourage Admins to become a ruling elite, and I'm too democratic to support that. StuRat (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

On an unrelated note: This talk page is becoming very long. Please consider archiving. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. StuRat (talk) 22:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm impressed. — Ched :  ?  02:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• By what ? StuRat (talk) 02:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

(out of sequence post). By your approach to editing, and more specifically your views on adminship.— Ched :  ?  04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I take it you agree ? StuRat (talk) 18:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• I bet you could have succeed RFA process easily. Very sad that you declined nomination. Anyways, Keep answering best at Reference desk. :-) GiantBluePanda (talk) 02:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the nomination in any case. I may reconsider at some time in the future. StuRat (talk) 02:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

When you do please let me know. You would be the most brilliant candidate. Kittybrewster ☎ 09:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 09:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I attended Wikimania this year, and I actually had to stand in line with everybody else to get my lunch! Some of those people didn't even have rollback and yet they didn't even offer to bus my table. And I had to ride the subway, they didn't even send a limo for me! I had also assumed there was an admin's lounge with unlimited free booze, but noooo. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

LOL. StuRat (talk) 18:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Taken Back: Finding Haley

I know that this is a girly movie. I watched this movie only because nothing else great was coming on TV. Have you seen this movie before? If you saw this movie before, then why in the world did Haley's fake mother try to kill Haley's biological mother?(76.20.90.53 (talk) 23:31, 18 August 2012 (UTC)).

Sorry, didn't see it. StuRat (talk) 23:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you indeed really much, be sure I wasn't trolling, I was just worried about my situation with my boyfriend. Thank you for taking me seriously. Thank you again thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alabamaboy1992 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 21:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Help desk responses

Hey Stu, wanted to point something out to you regarding this. Per WP:RD/G/M we should actually be removing requests for medical advice, not just collapsing them. A small explanation is still a good thing, though. In any event, I didn't touch the section—I don't mean to step on your toes. BigNate37_(T) 23:01, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I didn't recall how to put the deletion template there, so left that for others to do. I do oppose deleting it without any template/explanation, though, as the OP won't know what happened and will just repost. StuRat (talk) 23:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: Answering ref desk questions on the OPs talk page

Just wanted to let you know that I don't mean to single you out by raising this. I've seen it done quite a few times and just want some clarity. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 02:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

OK. StuRat (talk) 02:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Hunting gear on the reference desk

You think they look funny in camo and orange. They turn up in the Arctic in camo. They don't need the orange because the lack of plants more than six inches high and the snow makes them really easy to see. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 02:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd expect them to go spend big bucks on white arctic camo, and then put the bright orange back on so they don't get shot. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Nah. They spend way to much money in the communities to shoot at them. Of course one or two have had heart attacks while out hunting. I once watched one sitting on the airport floor take his rifle out of the case. By the way it seems to me that only US hunters wear the camo gear. I can't recall any other nationality wearing the stuff. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 03:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for TV help

My friend wanted me to thank you for the TV help, we got his existing antenna working better so that all his on-air channels are coming in quite nicely without a new one being installed, and the tiling problem he was having was definitely due to a loop problem. So he has decided to get rid of the cable (which he had been getting for $20 a month, but which they recently raised to $68 for the same service) and is going with netflix, on-air antenna, and an hdmi port for internet downloads. You won't be getting any of the estimated monthly savings, however. :) μηδείς (talk) 20:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the cheapskate package, that's exactly what I have. :-) What exactly did he do to fix the antenna ? StuRat (talk) 02:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I stripped the cord, attached it to a new coax adapter, and put the adapter directly on the RF input, removing the A/B splitter switch, putting the cable which had been on the splitter in thru the component input instead. Last time he did the wiring himself was when he had Pong. His only problem now is that he cannot have the cable and VCR/DVD both plugged in or he gets the loop interference. But that problem will go away once the cable is cut off. Except for the occasional news, weather channel, ballgame, and TCM movie, I haven't watched TV myself in quite a while. I was curious if you are familiar with Eye TV? A friend had it in Manhattan and got his cable channels off the internet somehow, he paid a one time equipment charge and apparently he had access to satellite feeds? Do you know how that works? Just let me know yes or no here, and I will post it as a question on the entertainment board. μηδείς (talk) 03:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Not familiar with that one, no, but I've heard of using your own satellite antenna to get unencoded satellite channels. When I looked at them, they were mostly foreign language channels, and the startup cost was quite high, so I dropped the idea. Perhaps Eye TV gets them off the satellite feed and puts them on the Internet. I'd have to think the content providers will eventually get around to encoding their channels, though, and you would lose this ability. From the looks of the wide range of over-the-air channels available there, I don't think the unencoded satellite channels would add much to his viewing experience. StuRat (talk) 03:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

This guy was in an airshaft in manhattan with no TV reception at all. He sold me my Mac. He had cut off his cable. Unfortunately he's moved and I don't know how to contact him. He told me he paid one time for the equipment, and that somehow there was a free feed or feeds on the internet, which he didn't himself see to actively have to visit. I don't know if he accessed a URL or if the machine gathered the feeds for him. He simply ran a program with a TV Guide type interface with listings he clicked on to "DVR" for regular recording. Or he could watch live, and it did not seem to be some cheap/pirate streaming service. I know he got Fox News in various versions and downloaded various shows like will and grace which I assume was not pay. (I saw him load these shows from his DVR type file and watch them when they were not live.) I don't think he had access to pay channels like HBO. The bizarre thing is that when i visited eyetv's website they said nothing about what channels were available or how you accessed them. I did not get the impression he was pirating, the data seemed freely accessible from the networks. μηδείς (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it's exactly pirating, more "grey market". That is, those networks aren't terribly concerned if a few people get their shows for free, it's just not worth their time to block it. However, that may change in the future, which is probably why Eye TV doesn't guarantee you anything. It might have been a good alternative in his case, with no over-the-air stations, but I don't think it is when you have a wide selection already. StuRat (talk) 04:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense. You'd think they would at least say 'gives access to "available" channels'. Not to sound like the sour grapes fox, but I don't need it, and fear it would be too complicated for my friend who would really only want certain ball games that might not be available anyway. Sorry about the bizarre deletion, can't figure out what I did, since the edit box was still open. μηδείς (talk) 04:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

No prob. Here's a site which discusses free satellite TV a bit: , along with a list of English channels: , and HD channels: . You'd need a satellite dish with motorized control (both rotation and elevation) if you want to watch programs off more than one satellite and want to track each satellite as it moves. They also offer that service where they put the signals on the Internet for you. As you can see from that list, those stations aren't the premium ones, they are supported by advertising or donations, so allow you to view it for free. StuRat (talk) 04:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It would be a huge stretch even getting him to do the eye tv if that would work, since he'd be against the hdmi, even though he's got three computers. (He lets me do hdmi when I visit.) I'll pass on the internet signal option. I am quite sure the idea of rotating satellite antennae would be dismissed out of hand. But I will pass it on. Thanks again for all the help. μηδείς (talk) 05:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, this is not a good option for him, although I don't understand his objection to an HDMI cable. Is it connecting the computer to the TV he doesn't like ? One drawback is that your program can freeze up when the computer is slow, which means you don't want to run anything on the computer at the same time. StuRat (talk) 05:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Hehe. He wants the days back when ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS were your only options, and you had to get up and turn the knob to change the channel, and bang it on the side to fix the tracking. The idea of a computer hooked to a cord hooked to a TV offends his sense of aesthetics. (Same guy I was interested in the direction speaker for, he would never accept an earplug.) Although I have actually got him blogging, which he does in all caps, (more attention getting) Lol! The bottom line question for him is, can he put up without watching Greta at 10pm, without the weather channel, and can he go without the local baseball games broadcast proprietarily on Comcast. As for me, the last show I watched in full on TV when it was broadcast was Farscape. House and Damages I have downloaded for the last five years, and they are both over now or soon. I'll keep you posted. μηδείς (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I can relate to his major networks desire. It seems like the more channels we get, the higher the ratio of crap to quality TV is. Some devices allow you to block certain channels (my digital-to-analog converter box does this, but not for sub-channels). This will become increasingly important as we get more and more channels of crap (there's only just so much crap you can stand to wade through before finding something you like). As for Farscape, I preferred Babylon 5 and Serenity/Firefly, myself. StuRat (talk) 05:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, anything with Claudia Christian, I mean, come on, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. But the Ben Browder/Claudia Black thing was also very hot. I was never able to get into Serenity/Firefly even though I am a libertarian and a Whedon fan. Much preferred Dr Horrible and Dollhouse. My golden age was the original Battlestar Gallactica, with Tom Baker as Doctor Who on weekends and Spock and Kirk in reruns. μηδείς (talk) 21:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, that scored a point...

At 20:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC), on RD/C, you said,

I've coded in C and similar languages, and hate them with a passion, so would like to avoid doing any of that.

Y'know, we may be two of a kind after all :-). When I got out of grad school (in the days of the IBM 360), my basic attitude was, If it can't be done in FORTRAN it ain't worth doing. I will admit to finally coming to grips with C proper, but C++ and its ilk, shall we say, "accelerated my retirement" from the industry.

Peace be with you, brother!

DaHorsesMouth (talk) 20:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, as I mentioned before, I once worked with a C programmer, who swore that C was better than Fortran, yet he needed me to track down all the bugs in his code, which were invariably due to the confusion in C of passing variables by address, value, or pointer (or some other problem which only exists in C). They've also expanded Fortran to include most of the good parts of C, like bit manipulation, but not yet, to my knowledge, GUI interfaces with Windows. StuRat (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Dude!

I am so disappointed to see you signed that "award". That was not my goal! I agree that the pedants and mavens and Gladys Kravitzes should eff themselves. μηδείς (talk) 02:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Lectern

Thanks for the quick turnaround on my query just now. If I get around to finding a good online EN<>NL dictionary, I won't take up space on the WP Ref Desks with one-word lookups :-) -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 06:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I just used Google Translate, but would reject it if the translation sounded hinky. Short titles like this seem to work well, though, in general, since complex grammar doesn't come into play. StuRat (talk) 06:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Carrots

But you do get purple, orange and green cauliflower, don't you? :>) Bielle (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

We briefly had small orange ones, but I haven't seen them recently, just the white ones. StuRat (talk) 21:57, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

My goodness, you are missing out. The coloured ones are generally much better for you, too. Perhaps your local greengrocer could be persuaded. They are everywhere in southern Ontario. Bielle (talk) 22:01, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't buy white cauliflower. If I want to fart all week, I buy broccoli instead. :-) StuRat (talk) 22:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Military spending and corruption

I just don't like calling it corruption because it's simply so weird. "Corruption" would imply that there was some nefarious plot to make gains from buying a product with someone else's money. But in the cases we're talking about: A) The seller didn't ask for the contract; B) the end user didn't ask for the contract; and C) the buyer was never promised a kickback. Yes, the process stinks of corruption, but I feel like it should have a more specific name, but I can't come up with a phrase simpler than stupid-things-politicians-do-for-votes. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I see. Personally I think we should label many things as corruption which are currently accepted in the US, like pork-barrel spending, earmarks, bundling unrelated things together in one bill, Gerrymandering, lobbyists, large campaign donations, etc. StuRat (talk) 04:18, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Another barnstar for you!

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For helping out in answering many of my questions at the Reference Desk. You deserve this barnstar. :) Futurist110 (talk) 20:32, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! StuRat (talk) 20:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. :D Keep up the good work. Futurist110 (talk) 21:09, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I have a question--would you be able to please help me out with this question--Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Humanities#Non-Hispanic_Black_.26_Non-Hispanic_Asian_Populations_for_U.S._Cities_Since_1970? If not, that's okay. Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 04:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have an insight into that Q. StuRat (talk) 04:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Windows 7

Hello StuRat, I was reading the Computing refdesk; if I'm understanding correctly, you still use Windows XP. I am the same way - I am forced to use 7 while at work and dislike it over XP. I've had the laptop that runs XP since 2006 and I "fear" upgrading to a more modern machine will leave me stuck with 7. I am also the same way with Microsoft's interface changes, including ribbons in Office products, some Windows programs, and eventually Explorer itself (see Windows 8...ugh). What do you dislike about 7? -- 143.85.199.242 (talk) 17:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

In general Windows upgrades seem to change things for no apparent reason (like when they renamed "File Manager" from that clear name to the obscure name "Office Explorer"), with very few actual improvements. It also has a tendency to be bloatware, where they add in features few people would want, which ends up slowing things down with little benefit (remember the dancing paperclip "office assistant" ?). I am an advocate of a continuous improvement process, where you only fix what's broken and "don't fix it if it aint broke". If Windows followed that model, instead of changing things for no apparent reason, it would be a much better product by now. Unfortunately, the real reason for new Windows releases seems to be marketing, not improvement in the product, which means they want it to look "new and improved", not actually be improved. Then there's the chaotic Windows version naming system (Windows 3.x, Windows 95, 98, 2000/Millenium, NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8). What should we expect next, Windows Flamingo, then Windows C, followed by Windows Mary, and Windows 13.8.9.E ? StuRat (talk) 22:33, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

As for Windows 7, my main objection is that I'd need to buy a new PC to run it. StuRat (talk) 22:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Just saw your latest question at the computing refdesk. Apologies if I'm prying too much, but what led to the change in your thinking? Now that you're using Windows 7, do you prefer it over XP? -- 143.85.199.242 (talk) 16:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Old PC died on me, see here: Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Computing/2012_November_15#Win_XP_SP3_won.27t_boot. I tried to find a refurbished PC with XP on it, but, as it happened, the store where I went only had Windows 7. So, I gave it a try. The only actual improvement I've found so far is some additional capabilities with MS Paint. On the other hand, many things that used to work no longer seem to, and many other things have changed for no apparent reason, meaning I have to learn how to use my PC again. Also, some rather basic utilities, like ones with the ability to unzip files, were absent. So, pretty much as I expected. If they just added the upgraded version of MS Paint to Windows XP, gave me that, and promised to continue to support XP indefinitely, I'd be a lot happier. StuRat (talk) 18:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't like people talking

about me behind my back (or telling me my questions are unanswerable, because they can't helpfully answer them...or incoherent...or badly answered by other perople, and so forth) so please see this discussion here. μηδείς (talk) 23:43, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me, although taking everything less personally would also be appreciated. StuRat (talk) 00:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

I like this edit of yours, but the next edit is a misconception. Anbu121 (talk me) 00:28, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 00:31, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Detroit weather

Moved from Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Science#Shelf_life_for_sealed_lead-acid_battery. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

StuRat loves to comment on all manner of things outside his competence. While he is not entirely wrong, it's pretty hard to freeze a lead acid battery, unless it is a tiny one, or you live in the arctic circle. This is because the freezing point of the electrolyte is around -7 C, and because the specific heat is about that of water, that is, very high, the inside temperature will tend to remain at about the diurnal average.

Wickwack60.230.227.185 (talk) 07:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I've had batteries freeze and split, as we get -7°C (19.4°F) temperatures every winter. We can have weeks where it never gets above that temperature. I'm in Detroit, nowhere near the Arctic Circle. I currently have a vehicle in storage, and have to either keep the battery charged or remove it, to prevent it from discharging, then freezing and splitting. The same issue applies to batteries on the shelf in an unheated garage. Since you apparently don't know that this is a potential issue with lead-acid batteries, I question your competence. StuRat (talk) 07:57, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with lead acid batteries, having worked as a photovoltaic solar power project Engineer/manager, and have been involved with computer room UPS storage. Part of the solar power role involved estimating battery temperature. I can also check Misplaced Pages for Detroit climate data. It says that while temperatures as low as -29.4 C have been recorded, the lowest monthly average is -3.1 C. The lowest daily average will be lower than that, but not much lower. As the battery stores heat very effectively, the overnight minimum is not relevant. Is WP wrong? It must be if you get "weeks where it never gets above -7C". Wickwack60.230.227.185 (talk) 08:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Averages aren't relevant. It's the extremes that matter, in this case the record lows. It's actually been warmer the last couple winters here (global warming ?), but International Falls, MN still managed to have 3.5 weeks where it never got above 20°F, in January, 2011, with lows down to -46°F: . That's still nowhere near the Arctic Circle, so you statement that you needn't worry about batteries freezing outside the Arctic Circle is clearly false. Your lack of experience appears to be with lead acid batteries in cold areas. StuRat (talk) 08:20, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Not true. The daily average is very relavent. The thermal characteristics of a lead acid battery can be modelled as a thermal capacitance equal to the specific heat capacity of the electrolyte (specific heat x mass), isolated from the ambient by the thermal resistance of the case in series with a Carrier air film thermal resistance surrounding by the battery. There is some conduction to ambient via radiation (negligible) and by convection, which can be estimated by Pressman's formula, and is generally close to negligible in typical battery storage conditions. It is analogous to charging an electrical capacitor via a series resistor. If you check such modelling, you'll find that the battery electrolyte temperature tends to remain about the daily average as I said. It will of course vary, but not to the extent of the daily ambient variation, and the electrolyte minimum temperature will lag the ambient minimum by several hours, just as the voltage on a capacitor lags that of a supply voltage applied via a resistor. Wickwack124.178.155.164 (talk) 08:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

You didn't understand what I said. That -3.1°C average for January generally includes warmer bits at the beginning and end of the month, with cooler weeks in the middle, where, as I said, it may not get above -7°C for some time. And, of course, some years have a colder January than others. Here's an account from 2009, when Detroit hit -15°F (-26°C): . StuRat (talk) 08:47, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm well aware that a monthly average min of x degrees means some days will be colder - I pointed that out. I found just now official US NOAA records at http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/cms.php?n=supdata. NOAA identified the recent lowest temperature months in Detroit as Jan and Feb. For 2012, Jan had only 5 days with an overnight min below -7 C, and the lowest daily mean recorded was -15.6 C and occurred on 20 Jan - the only day with an average less than -7 C. Feb had its lowest point of -11.7 C on 11 Feb, the only day with an average less than - 7 C, it averaged -9 C. All other days were sensibly quite above -7 C in daily average. So I can't quite say you are trying to flog a dead horse, Stu, but it's certainly a terminal nag. I notice you often jump in and supply poorly researched answers that don't stack up - such as windup cellphones, cat eyes, surge protectors, large scale eyes & lots lots more. Wickwack121.221.224.183 (talk) 12:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

As I already said, the last couple winters in Detroit have been warmer than usual. Did you really miss that or are you just being obstinate ? And, as I've proven in the International Falls case, it frequently gets cold enough, for weeks at a time, well outside the Arctic Circle, to freeze a lead acid battery. You were just completely wrong when you claimed it didn't, and this is exactly the type of poorly researched answer you are frequently guilty of. Your initial answer contained zero links or research, so, before you accuse me of not doing any research, learn to do some yourself. StuRat (talk) 20:06, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Stu, it's obvious you are a fairly smart guy. You post answers to all manner of questions, and your answers are usually not entirely wrong exactly. Many answers are really good. But many are quite wrong. Poor answers surely reduce the quality and quantity of both questions and answers on Reference Desk. People who have something worthwhile to say will look, see all the rubbish, and think "this is not what I want". It would be better if you stuck to things you know, or researched the subjects better before posting. I'm not the only person who has told you this. You attempted to defend the indefensible in your recent posts about windup cellphones. Your post on cat eyes brought this response: "Moreover, StuRat's responses are inaccurate and imprecise, at best" and that was very obviously true. Sometimes your initial post to a question is ok, but you make later posts that get further and further from the truth. For example on the Solar Panel Kits question, you started off ok, but you ended with this pearler: "Have you actually had any rechargeable batteries last 20 years ? I tried them, and they seemed to hold so little charge after a year or so as to be useless." Really? I have a Fluke 45 multimeter I bought 25 years ago. My experience is that the rechargeable Gates-type lead-acid battery it uses lasts at least 10 years before capacity drops noticeably. This year I had to buy the second replacement battery. Most consumer grade AGM and gell batteries last about 6 to 10 years in our climate, must warmer than Detroit's. Car batteries usually last 6 years or so. Plante batteries used in telephone exchanges, computer room UPS storage, and the like routinely last 20 years plus, admittedly they are built to higher quality standards. Nickel iron batteries, eg Saft type, last even longer. Some brands of so-called sealed lead acid batteries (there's no such thing as a true sealed lead acid battery - such a thing would be a dangerous bomb. They all have safety vents, though often the vents are concealed under a paper label or thin plastic film.) are no good, e.g., Schonnenshien only lasts about 2 years in warm climates, but that's just a poor quality exception. Wickwack124.178.43.122 (talk) 00:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Complaining, in a Ref Desk Q, about someone's answers to other Q's, does the Ref Desk no good whatsoever. Can't you see that ? If you believe my answer to the current Q to be inaccurate, then prove it so, don't just claim it, without support, as you did (that bit about freezing batteries only being a concern inside the Arctic Circle). If you would stick to the question rather than trying to pick a fight, we would all get along much better. My initial answer to this Q was entirely, 100% correct, but somehow set you off, nonetheless. Personal attacks like that have no place on the Ref Desk. StuRat (talk) 01:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Clearly, I'm not the only one who has attacked you, ie disputed your posts and/or objected to them. If you didn't keep posting bullshit, you wouldn't get attacked/disputed. Perhaps your frequent off the cuff posts, which you are so obviously keen to defend even when indefensible, are a manifestation of a desire to fight? Were you 100% correct? Not likely! Is the NOAA wrong? Does everybody in Detroit have their car batteries split open multiple times each winter? Do they use some special type of low temperature battery that the industry seems not to have heard off? I think not. If you say you had a battery crack open, I'm sure that you did. But there would have been more to it. I too have seen "sealed" batteries cracked open - it happens. Not from freezing though. Only from faulty manufacture or great age, usually combined with high ambient temperatures. Wickwack120.145.4.160 (talk) 03:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Now you're setting up straw men by claiming I said all sorts of things I never did. I certainly hope you understand that only a fully discharged lead-acid battery is liable to freeze, but your statements above seem to indicate that you don't understand that. My statement that you attacked was that batteries which are fully discharged can freeze and split. Are you disputing that ? I do seem to be some people's favorite scapegoat, and apparently you've decided to jump on the bandwagon. I also have many supporters, like the person who just gave me a barnstar below. With the volume of Ref Desk answers I give, there are bound to be occasional mistakes in some, while most are dead on, but I didn't make any mistake when I said that a fully discharged lead-acid battery can freeze and split (outside the Arctic Circle). When you said it couldn't, you were 100% wrong. StuRat (talk) 03:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I did NOT say it couldn't. My actual words were as follows: "While he is not entirely wrong, it's pretty hard to freeze a lead acid battery, unless it is a tiny one, or you live in the arctic circle.". Don't misread. Go back and read your own posts in the other RED questions I mentioned - you did everything I said you did. Yes, in a discharged battery, the acid concentration is less. But not zero - the freezing point will still be under -7 C if the battery is otherwise still functional, and the thermal capacity and thermal resistance willl be sensibly unchanged. Wickwack120.145.20.231 (talk) 03:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

What on Earth did "Does everybody in Detroit have their car batteries split open multiple times each winter?" mean ? Do you imagine we all leave our car batteries fully discharged until they freeze, then replace them, and let the new batteries fully discharge again, and again ? That makes no sense whatsoever. You are flailing about wildly, trying to create a straw man argument. StuRat (talk) 03:56, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: Now I see you are being accused of providing unreferenced, incorrect Ref Desk answers: . StuRat (talk) 04:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Ref desk barnstar

	Ref desk barnstar
	You maintain an active presence on the ref desk and help answer many questions. For this, I hereby award you the ref desk barnstar! Jethro B 02:43, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 02:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Titanic

I couldn't believe to find so many American Civil War veterans on board haha. Thank you for answering my question so fast. If I could I would give you another barnstar. Thank you Iowafromiowa (talk) 11:26, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 18:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Please be specific

Why is my hatting inappropriate? --Onorem♠Dil 18:29, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Because telling people they are free to edit Misplaced Pages is an appropriate answer to any Q on missing content. That is, if you don't like that something was removed, feel free to put it back. StuRat (talk) 18:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Read the question again. --Onorem♠Dil 18:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

OK..sorry, you did read it...but I'll disagree. Answering someone with do it yourself basically goes entirely against the idea of having a ref desk. --Onorem♠Dil 18:37, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. One of the underlying purposes of the Ref Desk is to improve Misplaced Pages articles, and telling people how they can improve those articles themselves is an important part of that mission. StuRat (talk) 18:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

That may be a secondary purpose, but the intial response was still basically a big middle finger to the original question and the primary purpose of the ref desk. --Onorem♠Dil 19:05, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

marbles and jews

The brief answer is, neither do I, or I wouldn't have asked the question. There does seem to be some connection, especially if you read Adam Reed's essay, to which I linked. μηδείς (talk) 03:58, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

PS, Reed's a Hungarian Jew, the name is a synonym, as is Ayn Rand's nom de plume. μηδείς (talk) 04:00, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Good luck getting an answer. BTW, Adam Reed is a synonym of what ? StuRat (talk) 04:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Of all the responders on my thread about learning C, you were the first, the most patient, and stuck with me until the end. I can't thank you enough! 169.231.8.73 (talk) 21:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. StuRat (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Editing Deferred Gratification

Glad you liked it. Fixing that numbering problem and adding pics now. I'm part of a group of grad students assigned to this edit. We'd welcome any help you can give. For simplicity, I'll be the face of the group.

01:59, 31 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coopercog (talk • contribs)

Changed indentation

Hi Stu. I was just wondering, was there a reason behind you de-indenting my comment on the Humanities Desk? () I'm not particularly bothered, just curious as to whether I indented wrongly in the first place. Thanks. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:46, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Your reply didn't seem to be a reply to me, which is what indenting it from mine means. Rather, it seemed to be a reply to the original Q, so I indented it from that Q.

In my case, I search through the Ref Desks by my screen name, and, if I see any comment indented from mine, I read it, since this means it's a reply to me. Having comments indented from mine which aren't replies to me therefore causes confusion. StuRat (talk) 22:32, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. I guess I indented it as a reply to you since I was sort of continuing on your line of thought, but by the time I got to the end of my comment I'd wandered a bit off track, so it came out as a reply to the OP. Apologies if I confused you! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 22:38, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

No prob. In a case like that, I'll split my comment into two, one of which replies to the one before, and is indented from it, and another which responds to the OP, and is indented from that. StuRat (talk) 23:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, just a thought: I've no problem at all with what you did, but if you'd left an edit summary I would have understood why you did it, and not had to ask. Not a problem, just an observation. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 22:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I tend to get a bit lazy about those, and usually only add them for articles. (In a case like this, the edit summary might involve 100X as many characters changed as in the Q.) It would be nice if Misplaced Pages would have a list of my "top 10 edit summaries" and I could just pick from those.StuRat (talk) 23:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) See User:Equazcion/CustomSummaryPresets. Trio The Punch (talk) 23:01, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, StuRat. You have new messages at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities.
Message added 07:56, 25 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Narutolovehinata5 07:56, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

on israel and palestinians versus nazis

i dont think nazi germany instantly lost all its allies due to its extermination program, so there may still be a way for israel to make a credible threat to do so and then follow through if no one will take them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.48.114.143 (talk) 22:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

The world is a very different place now than it was then. First off, the allies of Nazi Germany were mostly dictators, like in Franco in Spain, Mussolini in Italy, and, early on, Stalin in the USSR. Second, Nazi Germany could bully it's smaller neighbors, so they either had to go along with Nazi Germany or be conquered by it. Israel wouldn't have such leverage, especially with no major allies. StuRat (talk) 23:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Thirdly, Nazi Germany could have plausible deniability that they were engaging in genocide, by lying about it and using propaganda films made in the Theresienstadt concentration camp. In the age of the internet and satellites, no such lies would hold up. StuRat (talk) 23:29, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

You've painted a fair picture that I can believe of what would happen if Israel began a bona fide extermination program, though I'm not sure if threats would evoke the same reaction. Now let's talk about the other extreme. What do you think the consequences would be of Israel granting Palestine full statehood directly and through its allies? 178.48.114.143 (talk) 23:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't see what diff it makes on a practical level. It changes things under international law, but Israel ignores that anyway. StuRat (talk) 23:38, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, I support Israel strongly, and Israel considers this a very important issue (i.e. blocking this change). Why do they consider it such an important issue while you say on a practical level it doesn't make any difference at all? 178.48.114.143 (talk) 00:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

What I think Israel should do, is annex a small bit of Palestinian land (and evict the residents) for every rocket or other attack against them. This would make Hamas far less popular among the Palestinians. StuRat (talk) 23:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Again, I don't mean to be blunt, but land is just dirt, whereas lives are meaningful. Why not execute just a certain number of specially targeted civilians published in advance, for every rocket? For the first rocket, these people die, for the next one, these people, and so on. Then it is truly Hamas that is killing these civilians, and not Israel. 178.48.114.143 (talk) 00:37, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Besides the immorality of randomly killing people, that would create all the same problems I described before. And land is more important than lives, to the Palestinians, but not to the rest of the world. StuRat (talk) 00:51, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Could you also respond to my response to "I don't see what diff it makes on a practical level. It changes things under international law, but Israel ignores that anyway." above? 178.48.114.143 (talk) 01:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Nations get way too worked up about symbolic things like this (flag-burning is another), and I assume the same is true for Israel. StuRat (talk) 01:58, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

My accidental deletion of your comment on RD

My apologies, I was attempting to leave a smart reply (which I decided to delete) and touched you by mistake. I hope you have a happy holiday. Richard Avery (talk) 07:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Happy holidays to you, too. StuRat (talk) 07:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Crazy things said by Mr.98 and pseudo-I/Ps from Australia:

Mr.98 personally attacks me after apparently misunderstanding the meaning of "free":

Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013_January_30#Wikipedia_pictures

Ratbone claims A/C units never have slinger rings (but at least admits when he is proven wrong):

Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2012_July_5#Waste_heat_differential_recycling_in_air_conditioning

Wickwack claims 100% humidity can be comfortable:

Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2012_December_24#Suitable_conditions_for_ventilating_a_residential_property_to_reduce_humidity

Wickwack claims "deprived" always means 100% deprived:

Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2013_January_7#Choke_holds

Keit claims that power strips with LED indicator lights do not exist:

Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2012_December_30#Add_indicator_lamp_to_heater

Talk:Port Arthur massacre (Australia)#Request new locator map at top

Hi. I hope you don't mind. I have made a request as a result of your talk page suggestion --Senra (talk) 16:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a good idea, it really is hard to read. StuRat (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done --Senra (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. They started from scratch to create an animated GIF from a satellite map, rather than just changing the colors on the existing image. They also didn't indicate the location of Hobart. StuRat (talk) 20:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Yups. But it was free! --Senra (talk) 20:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

There is that. :-) StuRat (talk) 21:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Ma'an News - RSN

You might be interested in this discussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Ma.27an_News Ankh.Morpork 17:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

That's what SHE said:

. --Jayron32 06:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

LOL. :-) StuRat (talk) 06:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Your biography

If you could describe yourself in one sentence, then what would it be? What is your education level? What specific field do you specialize in? How wide and how deep do you specialize in your field and other fields? How often do you contribute to Misplaced Pages? Do you have a day job (or night job)? 140.254.226.247 (talk) 20:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Why do you ask ? StuRat (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Robocalls

Hi StuRat. I happened to be reading an article this morning, and it brought to mind your questions about automatic screening of telemarketers. This 'Banana Phone' seems like it might be just the thing for you - take a look! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:51, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. That solution seems a bit overly complex, though. I'd be fine with manually entering numbers into the white list, for example. I think my elderly mother might have trouble entering the 4-digit code embedded in a sound clip, within 10 seconds, if she called from a new phone. It would be better for me if unrecognized numbers are only allowed to leave messages, and it plays out loud while they leave the message (on a land line), so I can pick up if I recognize the person. There should also be a black-list, which I manually enter, of numbers it hangs up on immediately. StuRat (talk) 21:34, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you !

Thanks

Nirajrm (talk) 02:27, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Is it for this contribution ? Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Computing#Multiple_Choice_Question_building_software.2Fwebsite ? StuRat (talk) 03:15, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Your opinion needed

Hi! You might want to weigh in with an opinion here: Misplaced Pages talk:Reference desk#Medical advice question removed at Science Desk --Guy Macon (talk) 22:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

You're right

Thank you. Your comments calmed me down, fortunately war seems hard to take place. Kotjap (talk) 23:17, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 23:30, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

BTW, in the above sentence, I think you meant "unlikely to take place", not "hard". StuRat (talk) 03:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou

I got that idea of photon when I'm dreaming. So it was wrong. So can we study when sleaping? Thankyou for your explaination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by G.Kiruthikan (talk • contribs) 06:26, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. Allegedly, the idea for the structure of a benzene ring came to the person who first described it, in a day-dream: benzene#Ring_formula. StuRat (talk) 06:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

re reference desk

Many many thanks for your help!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.8.63 (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 03:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying

Hello. I do not really appreciate your comments at the Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities#As I Lay Dying, implying that I am a child seeking help with homework. Some questions at the Help Desks are, indeed, bona fide. If you are "at" the Help Desk, I assume that you are there to "help" or to offer some insights into the bona fide questions of other editors ... and not to belittle the questions of others as if they were trivial, childish, and nothing more than a veiled adolescent disguise at cheating on homework. What exactly about my question leads you to your assumption that I am a child attempting to cheat on a homework assignment, as distinguished from a bona fide question, seeking information (i.e., indeed the very purpose of the Help Desk)? And, furthermore, even if that is your personal suspicion, why act on it in such a condescending and mocking (and very public) manner? Please advise. Please reply at my Talk Page. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:52, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

StuRat, I am particularly surprised/dismayed/disappointed/hurt by your behavior. I have seen you on these Help Desks quite a bit. And, in fact, I am sure that you have helped me over the past many years, several times. This seems out of character for you. And, as such, it is particularly disappointing and hurtful. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk)

Unless I am seeing things differently than you are, it was not StuRat who posted the homework quip. StuRat, in fact, quoted from our article: As I Lay Dying in, what seems to me, a helpful attempt to answer your question --Senra (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I tried to help as best I could. And I also added a joke, where the butt of the joke is the book itself, and not Joseph A. Spadaro. StuRat (talk) 17:08, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

StuRat, I made it explicit that I found this conduct out of character for you. Hence, making it "sting" even more. Perhaps your wording was of poor choice. But, here is my "take" on it, acknowledging that my "take" might indeed be inaccurate. The other editor (snidely) stated: "Because it makes a good homework question?". So, clearly, he was saying, "It is obvious to me that you are trying to do a homework question, and I have no intention of helping with that endeavor." Now, you, StuRat, piped in. You did not say something to the effect of "Well, hey, maybe this is indeed a legitimate non-homework question." I repeat, you did not say words to that effect. What you said, in fact, was: "At least he didn't ask us to explain Chapter 19 ...". So, my reading of your comment was as follows. Clearly, it piggy-backed on the other editor's (snide) comment. In other words, creating an allegiance in agreement with his comment; as opposed to an opposition against, or a break away from, or a disagreement with his comment. In other words, you were "joining in" on his comment and, furthermore, adding your own addendum to his little snide joke. Your addended comment began with: "well, at least he didn't do such-and-such" (i.e., ask about Chapter 19). That prefatory remark, basically says, "OK, I agree that he is attempting to get homework done, but at least he didn't go one step further ... and at least he really didn't debase himself by asking about Chapter 19" (or some variation thereof). That was (and still is) my "take". And, as I said, my "take" could be wrong. So, I am open to an explanation of the intent behind your words and, also, how you expected to manifest that intent with the words you actually used (and the context in which you used them). Thanks! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:41, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be neglecting my previous answer, where I tried to answer your Q, as best I could, which I wouldn't do if I thought it was a homework Q. My joke was not an endorsement of this being a homework Q, it just happened to follow that statement. I placed it there since it was another aside, not an actual answer, and it's nice to keep asides together, and actual answers together. StuRat (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I do see what you are saying. Thank you. And can you understand my "take" on things (as described above), from my perspective? And how a reasonable person might easily have the same "take", albeit an erroneous take, as I did? Also, as an aside, if I read the book and linked to the article, is not it a "safe bet" that I had already read that one-sentence (unsatisfactory) blurb within the article (explaining the fire) ... and I was simply seeking "more" than that superficial one-sentence explanation? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

No, we get lots of people who either don't read the article they link to or miss the relevant bit. Some of our articles are huge and overly complex, so I can't really blame them. You should tell us up front that you found the description in the linked article unsatisfactory, if that is the case. (Also, some well-meaning but misguided editor might have added links to a Q, which makes it look like you placed the links there yourself.) StuRat (talk) 18:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

StuRat, you answered my second question, but not my first. Please advise. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, I can see how you could take offense, if you jump to conclusions and take everything in a negative light. I hope to persuade you not to do that in the future. Note that it's often difficult to discern tone on the internet, due to the absence of nonverbal cues. This is a good reason to assume good faith (more on this below). StuRat (talk) 03:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Also, you do have to admit that your Q looks a lot like a homework Q. So, if you don't want it to be mistaken for one, you really should explain more. I would have added "I am a college professor, I just finished the book, and I would like more insight on that event in the novel" up front, to prevent misunderstandings like this. Don't rely on us remembering you from previous Q's, as new people are always around, answering Q's, too. So, to summarize, try to give us more info, and be a bit more patient with us, please. StuRat (talk) 18:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

StuRat volunteers at the help- and reference-desks and did not deserve your tirade. Many help desk volunteers make facetious irrelevancies, or should that be irreverent asides. We do so by enclosing such comments in <small> tags to clearly mark them as off-topic. I do so myself. Recent examples include here andhere. I echo StuRat's request for a clearer question in future. It is quite hard to divine answers from little information at those help- and reference-desks. Now let's all getback on topic --Senra (talk) 18:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Tirade? Really? Senra, do you know the meaning of the word "tirade"? Please review all of my posts. They were quite respectful. StuRat, did you think my messages to you were a "tirade"? I'd like you honest answer on that. Please advise. Furthermore, Misplaced Pages has a rule/policy of "assuming good faith". Which means, "let's assume that this question on the Help Desk is bona fide and in good faith and not a junior high school kid cheating on his homework". Your suggestion cuts both ways. You both indicate that I should offer more info, to try to pre-empt the assumption that it's a homework question. (I thought that "assuming good faith" already covered that.) I could just as easily shift the burden back on you and say ... rather than assume it's homework, why not ask a clarifying question first ... such as "this sounds like a homework question. Before I reply, please let me know if it is or not." Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't say a "tirade", but it did rather seem to be a bit of an over-reaction. As I said previously, I didn't actually think it was a HW Q, but could see how others might. I might very well have asked, if I thought it was. However, each cycle of posing a follow-up Q (and waiting for a response and then responding to that) slows things down, moving your Q up the page, beyond where people are likely to read it and respond, and soon it gets archived. So, you really do yourself a favor by giving us all the info you can up front. As for assuming good faith, that applies to you, too. Don't assume we "belittle the questions of others as if they were trivial, childish, and nothing more than a veiled adolescent disguise at cheating on homework" nor that we are being "condescending and mocking". The only thing I mocked was the book, itself. StuRat (talk) 03:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

This situation somewhat reminds me of the common reply when anyone with computer problems calls the IT department: "Have you tried a reboot, yet ?". Half the callers find the question insulting, since they've obviously tried that, and half the people say no, they didn't try that. So, should the IT department stop asking the Q, to avoid offense, even though asking it can solve many problems ? StuRat (talk) 03:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

concern/apology

I am sorry, I should have come to you about this diff but all I saw was the legal problem with the potentially libellous remarks about a business. I do think you should remove the direct reference yourself, it is problematic and not necessary for your argument. But I have to apologize for not coming to directly, I was only focused on that and didn't even pay attention to the signature. μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, although the name shouldn't matter. I don't see anything libelous about the statement. Many businesses sell disposable items, they are just the first motel to do so, that I'm aware of. At any rate, they can't sue Misplaced Pages for what one person posts here. StuRat (talk) 22:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Heres a treat for all your good answers on the reference desk. Clover345 (talk) 19:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Have any wet naps ? I got honey all over myself. :-) StuRat (talk) 19:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

That South African guy

Letting you know about this report of mine in good faith. I neither think your comment is necessarily wrong nor that you made it in bad faith, but I do think it is over the line so far as our guidelines. Figured it's better to go to BLP than to act myself. μηδείς (talk) 04:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Flashman

Done. The limited support is only because I don't consider myself sufficiently familiar with FL criteria in practice. Looks like it is doing pretty well!--Wehwalt (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Did you post this to the wrong page ? I have no idea what you're talking about. StuRat (talk) 16:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm a big fan

very BIG ! really appreciate your work. —  Hamza  16:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks ! (Presumably this is for my response here: Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Science#Calculating_Shaft_Power.) StuRat (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Not particularly for that response. I occasionally read RD for its interesting content, and you are all over it. —  Hamza  08:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

chelyabinsk meteor

An interesting article on its origins given your prior question. μηδείς (talk) 19:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Still looking for some underlying factor that caused the "coincidence" of the two, though. StuRat (talk) 21:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

IP trolling

I took the liberty of removing this personal-attack-bait from the misc. ref. desk. Since he took your name in vain, I thought you might like to know about it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but I already saw your deletion and responding on his talk page. StuRat (talk) 23:03, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Good deal. I'll add some comments. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

the two of you know had you left this to me to hat there'd've been much wittier comments. μηδείς (talk) 23:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Fer sher. You should go to the IP's talk page and point that out. Unless he's afraid of Greeks bearing jests. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:18, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Old discussion

Hi Stu, I saw that you left a comment after me on the thread about web crawling/scraping. Since it is a bit old, I thought I'd follow up here: Basically, CiteSeer is only interested in academic publications. What I had done was put a pdf file in the public directory of www.department.university.edu/~username/ It was an orphan, in the sense that nothing linked to it, but it would have been visible to a ls or dir command. I think CiteSeer just downloaded every pdf in every public folder of every department.university.edu page it could find, and then with some minimal processing decided that it was a "paper" that they should index (This is generally effective, as many professors post their publications in this manner). Does that make sense? I've wondered about it a bit over the years. It was actually quite embarrassing, they basically copied and hosted my content without my consent, and though it was later published, the version they included all sorts of annotations and discussion not meant for the public! SemanticMantis (talk) 17:34, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense. In addition to embarrassment, you could also find somebody plagiarizes your paper and publishes it before you. I suppose the lesson is that we should never post anything on the web we don't want to be seen by all. Just keep it on your local PC directory until it's ready to publish.

This reminds me of an issue I had with the house I bought. The price I paid was always considered a "public record". However, in the old days, this meant going down to the Register of Deeds and paging through tomes to find it. Not anymore. Now it's online and anyone who types my name into Google can find out exactly what I paid for my house in a second. That's just a tad too "public", in my opinion. StuRat (talk) 17:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Austerity

My clumsiness with the undo button has left your comment looking out of place, but I think with a minor tweak to your opening words, it'd be a useful contribution to the thread. Hope you don't mind, but I really wanted to undo my edit - see the edit summary I left when I thought I was undoing it earlier! --Dweller (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I've updated my opening words. In the future, though, you might want to use strikeout, once people have responded, to remove your comments. StuRat (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for all your help with the min/max lagrangian problem. 74.14.60.239 (talk) 22:14, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat (talk) 03:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

:))))

Hello StuRat, Eduemoni has given you a shining smiling star! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the Shining Smiling Star whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or someone putting up with some stick at this time. Enjoy! Eduemoni 15:57, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 16:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

You deserve a barnstar

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For this. Thanks for the laugh. Ryan Vesey 03:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat (talk) 03:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Reversion at RD:S

Stu,

I reverted your edit to my hat at the evaporation/sublimation thread. I deliberately chose to hat after both you and Ratbone had your say on the terminology, and before either of you devolved into outright personal attacks. Your silently moving that (and by extention, attributing it to me, as I have the only signed metacommentary there) to get the last word in is unacceptable. — Lomn 15:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Note: if you want to pursue another response on that thread, I see no reason why a civil referenced discussion between you and Ratbone about what you each mean by the terms you're using can't continue outside of (and above, for that matter) the hat. — Lomn 15:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

And you leaving his comment saying that I'm wrong and don't check my facts, while hiding my response, is not acceptable. I'll just hat the whole thing. StuRat (talk) 15:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

If he had politely said "I disagree", then I'd have let it stand. StuRat (talk) 15:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

If you prefer that the whole thing be hidden, that's OK with me. — Lomn 15:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Follow-up on your RD question - old library books

Hi StuRat,

I don't want to incite any kind of controversy by responding in a hatted discussion, but to answer your question: yes, being an ex-library copy typically decreases the value of a book, partly because of skittishness on the part of collectors for exactly the sort of reasons your question raised (is it a legitimate library discard or was it stolen) and partly because they've usually been marked up and/or heavily used. So, without giving you legal advice, which I well know you know not to ask for on the RD </rolleyes>, your book might not be worth as much as you hope. But then again, in a free market world, things are worth what someone wants to pay for them. Best of luck. --some jerk on the Internet (talk) 13:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. StuRat (talk) 19:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of A Turning Point in National History

The article A Turning Point in National History has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references failed to find significant coverage in reliable sources to comply with notability requirements. This included web searches for news coverage, books, and journals, which can be seen from the following links:
A Turning Point in National History – news, books, scholar
Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient notability.

While all constructive contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —♦♦ AMBER 12:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

StuRat rules

There's something comforting about seeing your presence every time I've been on the reference desk since I was in high school and now I'm about to graduate college. All throughout my crucial formative years your knowledge has been a beacon, or something like that. All I'm saying is that you should either write a book or they should make a documentary about you. NIRVANA2764 (talk) 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, you've just put me in 7th heaven. :) StuRat (talk) 18:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of A Turning Point in National History for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article A Turning Point in National History is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/A Turning Point in National History until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

ANI discussion on Wickwack

I've reported Wickwack to ANI to see if we can get some kind of enforcement, and mentioned his history of abuses towards you. So just dropping this note to let you know about this. --Modocc (talk) 03:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Do you have a link for me ? StuRat (talk) 03:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Enforcement_needed_of_topic_ban_of_IP_editor_Wickwack] --Modocc (talk) 04:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again. StuRat (talk) 04:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Medical advice collapsed, see WT:RD

I collapsed a thread to which you had responded, and removed your answer, as it was potentially dangerous to the target audience (patients with multiple allergies). See http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Collapsing_request_for_medical_advice. --NorwegianBlue 21:12, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Muslims and Arabs' hatred of Jews

In your response to this query on the Humanities RD, I don't understand your distinction of "demotion of Palestinians outside Israel" when there is overwhelming, longstanding, and widespread evidence of Palestinian Arabs within Israel being treated as 2nd class citizens, quite literally, and the discriminatory practices by the Israeli government and military against Palestinian Arabs in the territories of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. Outside Israel they're refugees, sometimes immigrants. These issues raise an awful lot of heat; smoke only obfuscates. Kindly stay focused when you offer answers. -- Deborahjay (talk) 20:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

By "outside of Israel" I include the West Bank and Gaza strip, where Palestinians are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections, despite elected Israeli politicians having defacto control of their homes. Of course, they are also treated as second class citizens when refugees in many Arab nations, and I didn't want to forget about that, either. StuRat (talk) 23:32, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Why do people call them Muslim? Are you sure we aren't calling them something rude and are just ignorant english speakers who don't know any better calling them a name they think means middle easterner in English? That's what I wonder. Who decided to call them such, we have the term middle easterner and the term Islamists, so what is Muslim? Their race or what? (Crlinformative (talk) 17:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC))

I believe Muslim is the correct word for a believer in Islam. It's not a race, it's a religion. "Islamists" seems to mean conservative Muslims (insisting women cover their faces, etc.). StuRat (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

A prize for you

Hi there, StuRat.

We've been refdesk colleagues for many years now. We've certainly had major differences of opinion on certain matters and have pitted our arguments strongly against each other. But it occurs to me that you have always been polite and have never resorted to any form of personal attack or nastiness. For that, I thank you, and furthermore:

		The PENISS Prize
		On behalf of the People Encouraging Niceness/Eschewing Nastinesss in Society Society, I hereby award you the PENISS Prize. The prize is the highest (and sole) honour in the gift of the Society and is awarded irregularly, on merit. It entitles the awardee to the postnominal letters P.E.N.I.S.S. (in appropriate contexts, of course). It confers automatic membership of the Society, and it thus bestows the power to award the prize to others, and they to others, in perpetuity. . Remember, the more PENISSes in the world, the better for all of us. What a nice thought. Please continue your good work!

To present this award to others, simply type {{subst:User:JackofOz/PENISS}} on their talk page, and then sign and date your post.

Cheers and happy editing. -- Jack of Oz 00:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and also ewww. :-) StuRat (talk) 09:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if you celebrate Halloween but... Happy Halloween!

	Hello StuRat, Miss Bono has given you an lovely bat, to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a lovely bat! Enjoy!
	Spread the goodness of a lovely bat by adding {{subst:User:Miss Bono/Halloween}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 17:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanx!

Replied to your answer in http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Why_blind_army_ants_do_not_hunt_at_night.3F 67.71.98.182 (talk) 06:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Stu,

"That's more phallusy than fallacy". I just wanted to say thank you for brightening my working day. LOL is overused to the point it simply means "I understand you are being lighthearted", but that was a genuine, old-fashioned LOL moment for me. BbBrock (talk) 13:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat (talk) 18:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Socially optimal firm size for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Socially optimal firm size is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Socially optimal firm size until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Jojalozzo 01:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Don't shoot. I'm only the piano-playing alien.

I hate when my response gets archived. "Shiny circular object approaching bearing an unknown message. Sound familiar?" Clarityfiend (talk) 09:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the response. I was thinking how a CD could be used as a skeet. StuRat (talk) 09:25, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Neither the commentary nor the documentary Making the Earth Stand Still talk about the ramp. However, stills of the blueprints for the saucer show:

• a little trolley on wheels used to extend the ramp
• notations on three of the blueprints (sometimes a bit hard to decipher):

• "NOTE: POINT UP & REPAIR ALL JOINTS TO MAKE INVISIBLE ?? WITH TAPE"
• "WING TIP SEC. HINGES TO ALLOW FOR UNLOADING RAMP TO ROLL OUT / SEE DETAIL / PLEASE FIT ON ALL RAMP JOINTS / PROVIDE PAINTED MASKING TAPE FOR ??"
• "SLOPE ? WING TIP TO BE CON? WITH SMOOTH PLASTER" Clarityfiend (talk) 20:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm amazed they got such smooth movement from a trolley. I'd have expected the tell-tale jerks as it's wheels hit grains of sand, etc. They must have gone over it's path with a magnifying glass to remove every grain. StuRat (talk) 20:42, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Timekeeping

Luckily my calendar tells me it's time to wish you the season's greeting and a happy and healthy New Year. Richard Avery (talk) 14:08, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks ! And a generic Season's Greetings to you too (does that include Festivus ?). :-) StuRat (talk) 14:22, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes! especially Festivus. Richard Avery (talk) 08:25, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

StuRat, you are so kind!!!

I really appreciate your comment as far as other individuals in Reference Section. One of the problems for me now is that I work full time in a responsible position although I can "steal" a few minutes when I am not busy to post a question or two. So, I will have to proceed slower than might be expected. Sometimes I come home and can only eat and go to sleep. The project I try to launder in Reference Desk is totally unrelated to what i am doing now at work (I am an MD) but related to what I was doing years ago and had to revive now since I got a patent for it. It is a bit difficult to juggle everything but I am sure I will eventually manage. You have helped me a lot already and I immensely appreciate it. I did a lot of software development until about 3-4 years ago and hope now it will gradually come back. Another thing the software business is developing so fast, there is so much new stuff already, it is amazing. Thank you very much but I would decline the offer to escape the Reference Desk. I can stand for myself if necessary. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 21:12, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

HAPPY NEW YEAR !!! --AboutFace 22 (talk) 21:22, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Answering one of your questions.

"How did you go from computer programming to being a doctor?" - Well, it has actually been the other way around. At some points in my career I had enough time to pursue various hobbies and computers were one of them. I was in solo private practice for a long time and tried to write my own software. Now the situation has changed. I work for a state and I have to put in about 9 hours every day. It is a very rewarding job actually but another thing happened. I had a project which I started a long while ago and about 18 months ago on a spur of the moment I applied for a patent for the idea. I first filed myself and got rejected with a suggestion which implied that the reception by USPTO was good but my presentation was flawed. In no uncertan terms they recommended me to hire a patent attorney. Fortunately I got a very good one. I was rewarded 5 patents in about 3 or 4 months, do not quite recall. Any realization of these patents require a lot of math computations. So, I started with an appeal here to get a pointer how to hire a programmer for the job. You, see, for the past 3-4 years I haven't done much in terms of programming and restoring skills is not easy when you are full time employed. It seems I found two people at least who are interested and I will talk to one of them in a week time and possibly with the other also soon. Nonetheless I am trying to get ahead on my own donwloading software and trying to get at least a head start. I cannot do anything during the working week though--too tired by the end of the day. Thank you for your support. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 18:41, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok, let me know how it goes, I'd love to know. StuRat (talk) 18:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Speedy Gonzales

I think his actual catchphrase was ¡Arriba! ¡Arriba! ¡Ándale! which means approximately, "Get up! Get up! Let's go!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baseball Bugs (talk • contribs) 03:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

This makes twice in the last few minutes that I've failed to select one or more tildes. (Ironic, given the Spanish theme). ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:30, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. My English spelling is a lot better than my Spanish spelling. StuRat (talk) 14:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

See-see! ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

please lets not help the bastards

Why is there no detailed page for Adam Lanza??? Like for example the Columnbine High School shooters Dylan Klebold ,and Eric Harris. ....... Is wikipedia an independant organization or is it doing what its told? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.159.177 (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting would be the place to ask. Presumably they don't want to make killing children an easy path to fame, to discourage copy cats. StuRat (talk) 15:47, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

THAT IS A TERRIBLE AWNSER. HOW ABOUT HIS MOTHER OR FATHER ,,,NO DETAIKS ABOUT THERE LIVES . LOOK UP TED BUNDY ON WIKI HIS WHOLE LIFE IN GREAT DETAIL... BUT NO ADAM NO NANCY AND NO RYAN LANZA ....WHAT GIVES THE CORRECT AWNSER WOULD BE .....THE LANZA FAMILY DOES NOT EXIST THAT IS WHY WE CANT FIND ANY INFO ON THEM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.159.177 (talk) 20:41, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Beetles

I just hatted the question. I'm not the OP. Rojomoke (talk) 21:31, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Yea, we can't give medical advice, but identifying beetles we can do. StuRat (talk) 22:54, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Quite easy to identify. Two have gone extinct because of human activities, but the other two are still up and running. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:27, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

LOL, don't forget all those "5th Beatles", like Stu Sutcliffe. StuRat (talk) 22:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

RE: Wool

Cheers, Stu, that actually answers my question. Funnily, I never get it when I am with a girl who wears a woollen sweater or jumper, but only when I wear one. I also get it in the fragrance sections of department stores. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:23, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it is an actual allergy to lanolin, then, as they do use it in many cosmetics. Then again, you might just have another allergy or sensitivity to perfume. It bothers me, too.

BTW, on your talk page, I don't know how to close the box left opened on that applause section. StuRat (talk) 22:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Second Coming and the Environment

By soon, I mean very soon. I am asking this because there are some Christians who claim and believe that Jesus will come back and the world will end very soon. They believe that there are signs of the Second Coming and many of these signs have already been fulfilled. For example, look at this article. Jesus talked about these signs in Wikisource:Bible (King James)/Matthew#Chapter 24, Wikisource:Bible (King James)/Mark#Chapter 13 and Wikisource:Bible (King James)/Luke#Chapter 24.

Great Time (talk) 00:19, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Right, but as many others have pointed out, people have been predicting that Jesus will return "soon", ever since he died, so betting everything on the latest guy's prediction makes little sense. StuRat (talk) 00:37, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Refdesk question

Hi Sturat,

Thanks for your answer in the refdesk about the structural design of the O2 arena in London. To answer your question, it has support columns at the front. Theres some pictures on this forum. Clover345 (talk) 13:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

In that case, those on the lower level would have a partially obstructed view, if the balcony extended beyond their position. This is a good reason not to extend it very far. StuRat (talk) 14:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the limitation with the O2 arena is that its constructed within an existing structure. The roof of the arena was actually constructed off site and lifted from the floor to the top of the structure, using a lift mechanism. Clover345 (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

This was the Q about why they don't extend the balcony forward farther, wasn't it ? If so, I'm not sure how that construction method for the roof would affect it. StuRat (talk) 16:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

It was about why there's no top tier at the front of the arena. I thought because of the way it was constructed, maybe that's why they couldn't make the arena long enough to accommodate an upper tier. Clover345 (talk) 18:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Equal treatment?

Hi. I've done the right thing. Any chance of an equivalent gesture from your good self? -- Jack of Oz 02:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Done. StuRat (talk) 04:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Jack of Oz 06:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

gifs

Cool images. How does one get the appropriate red-blue glasses for the 3d image? μηδείς (talk) 21:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks ! You can find those red-blue glasses in many places. The store Dollar Tree had them for $1 at some point, and Wendy's gave them away with kid's meals recently. I suppose any hobby store would probably have them, although you might have to buy a 3D comic book or some such thing to get them. You could also make a pair yourself by taping pieces of red and blue colored transparencies to a pair of glasses. Or you could just ask around, probably some friend or relative has a pair they could lend you. (Note that there are other more expensive types of 3D glasses, such as polarized or electronic shuttering glasses, but those won't work with my GIF.) StuRat (talk) 03:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

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Coffee strategy

Thanks, StuRat. It's nice that you responded to me when others just deleted my question :) Have a nice day, buddy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.110.69 (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, and you too. StuRat (talk) 21:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

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You're a real rat

Hi. I've just noticed after all these years that your name is an anagram of Rattus, the scientific name for the rat. So you really are a rat after all. I don't hear you denying it, so ...

I have taxonomically named you after yourself: Rattus sturatticus.

Cool. Have a nice day. -- Jack of Oz 20:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

That sounds like a gladiator name, StuRaticus Maximus (which works out well, as my first name is Stu and my middle name is Max). StuRat (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Strange. All this time I thought his name was an anagram of "stuart". :D Yashowardhani (talk) 00:55, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Reverted changes to your user page

Just to let you know, I reverted some user box additions to your user page added by our friend on the RD who keeps posting probably copyvio nonsense about bacteria to the RD. Nil Einne (talk) 04:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I wonder why he targeted me. I wasn't involved in that. StuRat (talk) 04:53, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Rats deserve everything they get. :) ---- Jack of Oz 11:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

3D animation

Hey! I saw some of your 3D animations. They're awesome! How do you do it? :) Yashowardhani (talk) 15:47, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks ! I wrote Fortran programs to create individual frames, then stitched them together into animated GIFs using ImageMagick. If you follow the links near those animations, you'll find some of the discussions that came up regarding such animation, along with sample code/examples. StuRat (talk) 15:54, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll try that. You're making me repent not opting for computer science at high school! Yashowardhani (talk) 00:23, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

It's not too late. There are even free online courses through edX etc. StuRat (talk) 00:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the site. Unfortunately, it only offers university-level courses. Yashowardhani (talk) 00:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

If they still have the Introduction to Computer Programming courses, those aren't too much to handle. And it's not like you pay for it, so if you have to drop out, there's no penalty for that, therefore you might as well give it a try. There was also a course on Computer Graphics, but I wouldn't recommend that one until you are comfortable with programming. StuRat (talk) 01:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

That's good, I'll ask my parents about it. Yashowardhani (talk) 03:44, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Your Recent Reference Desk Answer

Hi. Just to say that you can probably move your most recent Reference Desk answer (on what the richest people in the US are doing with their money) directly into your list of "Correct Reference Desk" answers. :-( RomanSpa (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

LOL, thanks. StuRat (talk) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

alternative biochemistries (BN, F, etc.)

Hello, StuRat. You have new messages at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science#Alien Worlds???....
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Maybe I should discuss this with you on your talk page or open a new thread for this, because it is kind of derailing the OP's original question (Si biochemistry). Double sharp (talk) 11:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I think it's close enough to their original Q to stay there. I doubt if they meant "Tell me about silicon based life but please don't mention any other possibilities". StuRat (talk) 14:27, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Please don't feed the trolls

Hi StuRat,

It would be best to treat Alex Sazanov as a troll. Don't feed the troll. Just ignore him until he goes away.

If you provide an answer, it triggers others into answering.

Some folk have given him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he is using machine translation, which can certainly put out what seems to be garbage. However, the variety of posts he's made make trolling far more likely. A very obvious thing to do when using machine translation is, after translating your native text into the target language, get the machine to translate it back again, and compare it with your original input. He's claerly not doing this. And he inventing words not existing in English, and for which there is no plausible source in Russian. He's been repeatedly asked to either use Russian Misplaced Pages, or type in his own language, with no apparent compliance.

121.221.156.103 (talk) 14:00, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

But his Q's don't seem trollish, they seem like serious ones. Maybe he's just barely literate in Russian, then uses a machine translation to English on top of that. StuRat (talk) 15:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

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Odor

Per WP:COMMONALITY, neutrality isn't about finding a NPOV or unoffensive word, but about finding common ground between spelling variations. You say "odor", I say "odour" - no big deal, but spelling differences are best avoided. I thought "smell" was a synonymous word, but perhaps there is a subtle difference in meaning. But I can't think of a better alternative: "aroma" and "bouquet" aren't appropriate in Flatulence, nor are "stink" or "stench". "Smell" does not seem to be inappropriate to me, but if you really don't like it, then please revert to "odour" as this spelling would be consistent with the rest of the article, per WP:ENGVAR. Thanks, Bazonka (talk) 22:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Your link above (and in the edit summary) doesn't work. It takes me to the top of Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style, and that gave me no clue you were talking about English variants. I'll go ahead and make it "odour". StuRat (talk) 22:56, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

The link works for me. MOS is a long page though, so perhaps it takes time to fully load before jumping down to the relevant section. I don't really see what the problem with "smell" is, but anyway, I won't argue with your last edit. Cheers, 23:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

What about "AC power"?

That distinguishes most household "non-mains power" from the mains within an inch of plugs that rival cul-de-sac pipes in thickness. There's "off-grid power" if you want short specificity that your outlet power happens to not be coming from real mains (which might still too small to equal the smallest non-electrical mains, at least one wire at a time). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:52, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs at AN/I

You have been mentioned in a discussion at WP:AN/I. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Hipocrite (talk) 16:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

StuRat, the nannies are going after us. Including the one just above. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:29, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Note

Those various redlinks and IP's are from a banned user (which one, I don't know - possibly Cuddlyable3) and that's why they keep getting reverted. At this point, it's best to not respond to their questions. Give the admins a chance to block them and zap their questions. I'll try and do likewise. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Right, but which ones are and aren't banned users ? Is there any easy way to know ? StuRat (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

If it's an IP from Venezuela, it's him. If it's a redlink whose first entry is of the same obvious bent, or a redlink who has made some useless entries just to get confirmed and get past the semi, it's him. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:04, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Please-please-please don't edit-war over the quiet-as-possible removal of edits by banned users. It's exactly what the troll wants. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:00, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but an absolute minimum requirement is that any removal must list the reason. StuRat (talk) 18:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Any comment in the edit summary feeds the troll. However, if it will make you happy, I can say "wp:deny" instead of leaving it blank. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:08, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Otherwise we are headed to a situation where anyone can delete anything for any reason, with no explanation given. We also shouldn't delete good faith answers. StuRat (talk) 19:11, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

And stop reverting the deletion of banned-user questions + answers. Banned users are not allowed to edit, and anything they post is subject to deletion on-sight. And deleting the question and leaving the answer not only renders it nonsensical, it feeds the troll. Stop it already. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

And also, by the way, the user you've been edit-warring with, Minky543, is actually that same user, playing both sides of the game and loving every second of it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:26, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

You can't delete answers by non-banned users. Box it all up, if you like. StuRat (talk) 01:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to leave this alone for a little while, and let you and Schultz slug it out with the admins who are trying their best to counter the troll. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Possessive its versus contraction it's

Stu, I read your replies on the Reference Desk often and appreciate your insights and helpfulness. However, I have noticed that you often use "it's" (the contraction) when you mean to use "its" as a possessive pronoun. --Thomprod (talk) 13:48, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's intentional. I believe "it's" is more consistent with other possessive forms, like "Bob's" and "Mary's". I realize that my usage is nonstandard. StuRat (talk) 18:44, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Offensive comment

I find your comment highly offensive and ask that you choose your words more carefully in the future. It's not my fault if your comments are so unclear such that they were legitimately misintepreted by me and as I've said, it's not the first time you've asked to be clearer. Nil Einne (talk) 15:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Nobody considers being accused of nitpicking to be "highly offensive". And there does seem to be a popular game here to try to misinterpret someone's comments, then say they are wrong (under that misinterpretation). It would be damned near impossible to write anything that couldn't be intentionally misinterpreted. I am reminded of the Sheliak species in the Star Trek universe, who wrote a half million word long treaty in an attempt to remove all ambiguity: . StuRat (talk) 16:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Risk assessment

If I can ask you to be clearer on something else, how does "increased risk in flying over a war zone where 3 aircraft had already been shot down is a no-brainer" measure up with "Looking at the past record is only one way to determine risk, and not a good choice for infrequent events."?

Not trying to be a dick, just curious to whether you think flying there would be more, less or just as risky today. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

(Is there some reason why you didn't add a new section ? In any case, I did it for you.)

I meant the past record of the actual event in question, in this case shooting down a passenger jet. Related events, such as shooting down of military jets, are also useful for risk assessment, especially where those related events are more common.

Ironically, flying over that area would likely be safer now, even as the perception of risk is much higher, since the militants probably realize that they screwed the pooch big time, and the resulting threat of serious sanctions may cause them to lose vital support from the Russians. StuRat (talk) 05:20, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Not trying to say you're wrong or right, just wondering. Didn't add a new section because it seemeed relevant to misunderstandings. My bad. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:22, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry

I would like to apologize for getting a little snippy on Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Computing#Dataflow_driven_programming_framework. I know you're just trying to help. :-) I think you caught me in a bad mood, and took it too personally, since I've already put so much effort into understanding and accounting for every little detail of the system and putting checks in place to catch as much unexpected behavior as possible. Obviously I agree that it is always good advice to assume you haven't accounted for everything and have a backup plan in place. :-) Katie R (talk) 11:53, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I've just seen so many programs that failed to handle conditions which they assumed could never happen, that I always try to plan for them: "The best-laid plans of mice and men (and women) often go awry." StuRat (talk) 12:09, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

The software I work on tests things that put mice and men and women into space, so I try to be careful. :-) Katie R (talk) 16:34, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Better not send any mice to the Moon, in case it's made of cheese. :-) StuRat (talk) 01:03, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Speculative "answers"

Hi Stu. I thought it would be more polite to post this here, and not distract from the thread. Do you see how this is an example of why your un-cited claims bug people? Why make stuff up? Sure, it sounds reasonable that you can't use the wind to go faster than the wind -- but that's incorrect, as you would have known if you'd read the info on wind turbine land vehicles in Katie's link. It's also common knowledge among people who've been sailing, and is often mentioned as a fun factoid the first time a newbie boards a sailing vessel. It's a reference desk, not a "sounds reasonable" desk. I suppose you could say it doesn't matter because your error was quickly corrected, but for better or worse, people might believe the things you say, and there's not always someone right there with the time and knowledge to set the record straight. I'm not trying to be mean spirited. I didn't want to search through your extensive post history to find examples of this sort of thing, but when one popped up this morning, I thought I'd bring it to your attention, in light of the previous talk page thread. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:36, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm rather skeptical. The only source I found in that article appears to be this one, from an admitted amateur: . And that seems to violate the conservation of energy law. So, like cold fusion, I need more proof than one experiment, before I accept it. What that source might be saying is that it can move slower than the wind, store up energy, the use that to sprint ahead of the wind for a short period. If so, that seems possible, but that still limits your average speed to below that of the wind. StuRat (talk) 14:54, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Here's another source I found, which says "Even professional aeronautical engineers can’t agree": . So, if I'm wrong, at least I'm in good company. StuRat (talk) 15:06, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Apologies

I apologized for my snappy remark and mischaracterization in the unhealthy ingredients question - I misread what you had written and responded poorly, my fault entirely.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks ! I think we are really both saying about the same thing, perhaps with me putting a bit much more emphasis on individual ingredients than you. I certainly agree that processed food should be avoided, whenever possible. StuRat (talk) 04:41, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Mason jars

The term for a mason jar lid that doesn't have a separate ring and gasket lid is "storage lid" or "storage cap" - search those terms on google/amazon etc. . Good luck, SemanticMantis (talk) 16:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, StuRat (talk) 17:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

CRT

"On my CRT monitor...." LOL. You should let your family know what to get you for Christmas. :-) Axl ¤ 08:44, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

It would be bad for the environment to dump my CRTs (3 TVs + 3 monitors) in the landfill. And sending thousands of dollars to a non-democratic and increasingly militaristic power, the Chinese, seems socially irresponsible, to me. StuRat (talk) 13:40, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

These things are cheaper now. Less than 1000 overall and I think most aren't even made in China anymore. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 1 Adar 5775 00:32, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

StuRat, would you kindly examine my GFortran post at LinuxQuestions.org.

StuRat hi. I know you are an expert on GFortran. I recently had a problem and posted at a linux forum. In the end I solved the issue myself but I still do not understand why my FORMAT statement did not work.

My question is: "What is wrong with my FORMAT statement" If for some reason you will not be able to see the thread, I will post it here. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 17:43, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, I will take a look. StuRat (talk) 21:54, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I did get an error when trying to view it, apparently you must be a member of that forum to view it. So, please list it here. StuRat (talk) 00:04, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I had this file with columns of data:

File gray_h_20.dat:

0 1956.353271  ; 1957.88532  ; 1958.421583  ; 242.7323189

1 3041.603197  ; 3044.183214  ; 3044.777652  ; 577.2555817

In real file the semicolons were absent. The total number of lines was 256.

program main

  real :: val1,val2,val3,val4,diff1,diff2,dcent1,dcent2
  integer :: reason = 0, ii = 0, jj = 75
  100 format (I4,f15.6,f15.6,f15.6,f15.6)   ! for reading from unit 1 file
  200 format ("reason = ",I10," jj = ",I10)
  700 format (f8.3)                   ! for writing into the unit 3 file
  500 format (I3,". val1= ",f11.7," val2= ",f11.7," diff1 = ", f8.3," or ",f6.2,"%", " diff2 = ",f8.3," or ", f6.3,"%")                ! for writing into stdout; unit 6
  open (unit=1, file = "gray_h_20.dat", status = 'old')
  open (unit=3, file = "diff_h_20.dat", status = 'old')
  DO WHILE (reason .eq. 0)
    ii = ii + 1

! THIS STATEMENT GAVE ME TROUBLE

    read (1,100,IOSTAT=reason) jj,val1,val2,val3,val4
    write (6,200) reason,jj
    diff1 = val1 - val2
    diff2 = val1 - val3
    dcent1 = diff1 / val1 * 100
    dcent2 = diff2 / val1 * 100
    write (3,700) dcent1
    write (6,500) ii, val1, val2, diff1, diff2, dcent1,dcent2
  enddo
  close (unit=1)
  close (unit=3)

end

I get this error, and also one line of "output" which is no output at all:

Quote:

reason = 5010 jj = 75

1. val1= -0.0000142 val2= 0.0000000 diff1 = -0.000 or -0.00% diff2 = 100.000 or 0.553%  

This is how I resolved it and it began working.

read (1,*,IOSTAT=reason) jj,val1,val2,val3,val4

I would like to know why the first FORMAT statement failed.

Thanks --AboutFace 22 (talk) 19:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

One question, do you have a blank at the beginning of each line in the input file ? If not, try that. I believe certain format statements expect the first character to be a special control character, and that might mess things up.

Also, instead of just using blanks to separate the columns, try commas. StuRat (talk) 04:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

StuRat hi, It is kind of interesting but unfortunately impractical. Someone else supplies the input file for me and it is not in the format I am using. This person sends me columns of numbers in .xlsx format which is Office Excel. I cannot use it in Ubuntu, at least I don't know how. So I copy about five columns at once to the clipboard and paste them into a .dat file in Ubuntu Terminal. Inserting commas manually is not for me.

Now the blank at the beginning of each line? There are no blanks, but entering the blanks manually? I can try that to prove the principle because this thing puzzles me. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 17:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, let me know how it goes. You can delete all but 2 lines, insert a space at the start, do one test, then add commas for a 2nd test. Once we know if either of those are the problem we can look for a solution, if you want to go beyond unformatted input. StuRat (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

I moved the first 10 lines one position to the right thus giving each line a blank byte at the beginning. The formatted input did not work as before. This is what I got in the output file: ******** (one line only). --AboutFace 22 (talk) 02:42, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Did you try the commas ? I suspect that without those, it will read by column. For example, an I4 read will try to read 4 characters and plug them into an integer. If part of the next number is in that 4 characters, things will go haywire. StuRat (talk) 04:46, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

No I did not do it yesterday. I did it now and it gave the same result: ******** . Just one line if it can be called a line. I inserted the commas as you suggested. Even if it worked I probably would not do the commas. It is kind of ridiculous to do it by hand on a large file given the fact that unformatted input works so well. So the problem has no answer. You can actually take my code and run it and confirm. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 01:35, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Yea, I've had a similar experience with formatted FORTRAN reads. They are extremely particular that everything be in exactly the right place. Unformatted input is safer. StuRat (talk) 02:55, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I forgot to mention one interesting thing. I failed to remove the commas and the line shifts one position to the right. The unformatted READ ignored the nuisance as it were not there and read the real stuff: floating point numbers.

This will close the discussion, he, he. Thank you, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 16:27, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, and good luck. I think the formatted reads go back to Hollerith cards, when each space on the card was specifically reserved for one data type, not like the CSV files we tend to use today, where spacing is ignored. Back then, space was at a premium, so they would put one number right up against the next, not using any spaces or commas in between, and the formatted reads were designed to decipher that. StuRat (talk) 17:33, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Req Technical Advive

Hi, Stu.

You've been helpful before with TV questions. My parents have done away with cable entirely. The live 20 miles or less SE from downtown Philly and get all the Philly stations in normally very good HD reception. They have a 40-y/o outdoor antenna which works but could use replacing.

My Dad wants to install an in-attic antenna. He's looking at price and quality, but he's also interested in a hi-range antenna, since he lives 75 miles or less SW from NYC.

He'd like to get an antenna that would get the NYC stations, since it would easily double there number of stations, although much of the programming may be duplicate.

I suggested he look here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=hdtv+antenna+indoor+150+mile+range

I have three main questions. Is a hi range TV that will also get NYC going to have to rotate every time he changes channels? (Frankly I think with his proximity to philly he can probably just keep the antenna aimed at NYC and get the philly due to the mere proximity of the signal.

Second is there any specific brands you can either recommend or warn him away from.

Third, is there any other issue I might not be thinking of that you suggest I pay attention to?

Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 18:17, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I really wouldn't recommend trying to get a digital TV signal from 75 miles away, but, if you're committed to it, it will take everything you can possibly do to get it to work, and then you can still expect to lose the signal regularly. (It's not like analog TV where a weak signal is still viewable, just with some "snow".) Some additional thoughts:

1) Some antennae are highly directional while others are somewhat directional or omni-directional. For that kind of range, though, I think you want a highly directional antenna. The directional ones also usually receive signals well from the opposite direction, and sometimes from a few other directions, as well. You might want to use both the new directional and old omni-directional antenna together. You can hook them up to a switch box at the TV you can use to select between the two. I have this setup.

2) Rotating antennae can be a bit of a pain. You need to use a remote control to rotate them, it needs to be lubricated periodically, you need to keep the area clear to allow for rotation, and you have to wait for it to rotate every time you change channels. I'd avoid those.

3) In-attic might not work. It may need the additional height you get by putting it on the roof. At 75 miles, you might have the Earth in between your antenna and the broadcast antenna, due to the curvature of the Earth, unless you go higher. 75 miles is really pushing the limits, so you'd have to go all out to make it work.

4) Something else to consider is the frequencies you are trying to receive. Different antennae are more sensitive to different frequencies. Note that under digital TV, the channel number no longer corresponds directly with the broadcast RF (radio frequency) signal. So, you'd want to determine the frequencies of the TV channels you're trying to get and select an antenna good at those frequencies. You won't be able to get low VHF at that range, because they are restricted on power output. For this reason most digital TV stations are broadcasting in either high VHF or UHF. StuRat (talk) 21:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, that was very clear and helpful. My dad wasn't set on the NYC channels, and there was a miscommunication between us, he wants the antenna in the house itself, not the attic. His concern is that he gets pixelation when it's bad weather. He might go with on-the-roof, but he's 76 and it's not like Walmart will install it. (I can do inside wiring, but I have overpowering acrophobia (I got locked out of my apartment once and had to climb the fire escape from a 4th story to a 5th story window, which took about 30 minutes for me to do in inch by inch increments.)) The NYC signals come out of the Twinless Tower so they are pretty high, there are no mountains in between, he lives at almost the highest elevation in SJ, but that's like 100ft, so not much help.

One last question. Since almost all of the channels he gets are at 10 degrees west of due north from him, and they come in fine now on his 40 y/o antenna, is there any point in a unidrectional antenna? There are other stations, mostly PBS, which they like) that come out of Vineland and (S) Atlantic City ESE) and Trenton (N). Not knowing the right word, would an omnidrectional (?) antenna be a good idea, if there is such a thing? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 01:06, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes there are, but none are 100% omnidirectional, or 100% unidirectional, for that matter. What channels get the pixelation ? If those are the ones 10 degrees west of north, then a directional antenna for those and an omnidirectional antenna for the rest might work. As for brands, Winegard and Channel Master seem to usually have the best antennae. But as for putting it inside the house, and not in the attic, you have to realize that directional antennae are big and ugly, not the type of thing you want in your living room. Maybe if he has a utility or storage room, that might be appropriate, but you also have the antenna wires to deal with. StuRat (talk) 01:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

For his convenience, he wants an omnidirectional antenna in the living room one in the botom center of the home that will get better than the one on the roof 30 ft up. I know this will cause my mother to have apoplexy. He also doesn't want to have to run wiring other than by the current route, which is down the West side of the house from the roof and across the garage into the living room. I am going to try to convince him either to put a new antenna where the old antenna is, or perhaps one in my sister's old room which is rarely used and has a northward view from the second floor. The Channel that comes in poorly is 23 PBS out of Camden, which can't be more that 1-3 degrees away from the Philly transmitters from his transmitters.

The problems at this point seem ones of effort, esthetics, and emotion, so again your advice has been helpful. He was going to get the Channel Master C2 if I remember (don't have my email open) but was going to try to fit that in an almost below ground room in the center of the house, in an 18" space behind and south of the TV. Thanks for all the practical advice, I will pass it along shortly. μηδείς (talk) 02:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, but be sure to explain to him the huge difference in reception he will get due to the elevation difference. If he wants to put a directional antenna behind the TV in that small space, it would have to be the bay type (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=4228-hd is a good one). However, he would be quite limited in where he could aim it.

Also, you might be thinking that a new antenna would have to outperform a 40 year old one. This is not necessarily true. Very little improvement has been made to TV antenna technology over the last 40 years, because people have been switching to cable and satellite TV. There have been improvements in cell phone antennae based on fractal geometry, but so far AFAIK nobody has tried to adapt this to TV antenna. StuRat (talk) 02:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages Library - ScotlandsPeople - You've got mail

Hello, StuRat. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.—  Philg88  06:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Your graphics software

StuRat, I want to know what graphics software you are using. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 22:02, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

You mean the animated GIFs from my home page ? As I said "I generate the panes using FORTRAN programs I write, then use ImageMagick to stitch them together into animated GIFs." You might wonder why I do it this way instead of using some off-the-shelf program. Well, my goal was to learn the basics, and I wanted to start from scratch to do this. StuRat (talk) 00:52, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I remember those animated pictures and this is why I asked you this question. My goal is actually different. I am not interested in animation. I was wondering if GFortran has intrinsic graphics capabilities. That was the impression I had when you showed that stuff to me. I currently use gnuplot which is outside GFortran, so I have to fill up a file with floating point values and then use a short file with gnuplot code and issue a simple command to display the graphic. There are numerous graphics program on the web. Thanks, ---AboutFace 22 (talk) 01:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

No, I've not found any. I believe I asked this Q at the Ref Desk some time ago. I do everything manually. The Netpbm format allows you to output a human-readable ASCII graphics file, which can be displayed directly. However, those are huge and slow, so you likely will want to convert them to another format. You could also theoretically output binary graphics files directly from FORTRAN, but debugging is problematic, since you can't read the file directly anymore. (I've actually been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet, so if you do, I'd love to get a copy.) Then graphics file compression is another issue, and even if you create binary files, you'd still likely want to use another program to compress them. StuRat (talk) 16:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Regarding Emilie claire Barlow

I did send a self addressed stamped envelope and I got nothing. Please help me. Venustar84 (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

How long ago ? If they answer their mail personally, it can take a very long time to get caught up. StuRat (talk) 03:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

A year ago. Venustar84 (talk) 04:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

They still might still answer after that long, but I'd also try your other approach of catching her in person. StuRat (talk) 15:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the help!

To StuRat, Tcncv, Salix alba, Dismas and Mandruss. I gather that most of the time when you answer questions at the reference desk, you never hear back, so I wanted to let everyone involved in Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2014 August 26#Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2014 August 17#Please help me buy the right wire redux know a few months later that it made a real convenience difference in my life and is much appreciated! Thanks again.--108.54.18.254 (talk) 18:54, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, glad we could help ! StuRat (talk) 19:13, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

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Being bullied by Baseballbugs

Any chance you could intervene here?

Every time I create a new question of the ref desk this particular editor swoops in with arbitrary removals of my question. This bully boy approach is really unhelpful and I have no idea why he feels compelled to pick on me personally. When questioned, he is unable to explain his actions. Which suggests to me that his behavior is purely driven by malice.

See my revision page.

Your Q "Why did Jimmy cross the road" seems to have been removed for good reason. If you meant something like "What was Jimmy Wales' motivation for starting Misplaced Pages ?", then you should have said so. Unfortunately, that question marked you as a troll in BB's mind. I suggest you sign up, then he won't recognize you. And avoid any more silly Q's like the crossing the road one. Your Q on Misplaced Pages biases seems reasonable to me, and I wouldn't have removed it. I'll put it back and see if he leaves it there now. StuRat (talk) 16:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

This time he's blocked for a week. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

"::This time he's blocked for a week. ←Baseball Bugs"

Sort of.

And you were contradicted more reasonable, fellow Wikipedian's who kept my most current question live. Whereas you wanted to delete the whole lot. Friendly tip : best you keep that ego genie in the bottle. We all know he knows best, don't worry.101.108.214.59 (talk) 22:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

ANI notification

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Does Misplaced Pages offer medical advice now?. Thank you. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Misc desk

I deleted it without comment because it was an obvious attempt at a BLP-attack on Wales. Please, don't start another troll-feeding bout. Revert yourself without comment. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:03, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I have posted it on Wales' talk page so he can decide what it's about, if anything. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

It's not at all obvious to me. Take it to the talk page and try to garner a consensus. StuRat (talk) 07:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Ref Desk proposal

Hi Stu, I don't know if you've been following the recent threads on the ref desk talk page, but based on some review of that material, I have a simple proposal that I'd like your feedback on before I shop it to the whole group. It's very simple: For a trial period (1 month?), we agree to not remove or hat any questions for reasons of seeking medical/legal advice (and perhaps extend to include requests for opinion). Rather than a free-for-all, we first respond with boilerplate or a template, something along the lines of this:

“

Hello, and welcome to the Misplaced Pages Reference desk. Your question seems to be seeking medical or legal advice . We do not give this type of advice , but our users will be allowed to post citations/links to informational references. We hope this information might be useful to you. If you further pursue advice here, this question may be removed.

”

At that point, we can remove any responses that diagnose, proscribe, treat any illness or legal situation, but allow links to RS. Perhaps even demand that any responses include references, or risk removal. Would that seem ok to you? The thing is, we really don't get that many medical legal questions, and I like how this puts us in the position to police ourselves as respondents, rather than posters. As I see it, this proposal is consistent with our guidelines, and it might forestall some debates, because hopefully the use of a template will warn all our regulars (and irregulars) to be on their best behavior. On the upside, we can then provide useful information, such as links to other people's opinion pieces, links to WP pages that are about medical topics, peer-reviewed literature, etc. So, any thoughts? Would you support such an experiment? Thanks, SemanticMantis (talk) 15:04, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

No, I don't think that would work, as written, because of editors like Medeis, who think anything related to biology is medical advice. Give her the ability to delete responses without consensus and she would delete even more than she does now. If you add that deletions can only occur after a consensus is garnered on the talk page, then I could support your proposal. StuRat (talk) 15:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Sure, we could do it that way. I'm certainly open to tweaking the details. The main thing I want to promote is to focus on responses, not questions. I see it as our job to behave ethically, not poster's jobs to read all our guidelines and know how to not even look like a hint of a troll or advice seeker. I was actually keeping Medeis in mind. My thought was that she could feel happy by adding that template to certain questions, and she might be less likely to delete a regular user's posted answer (i.e. not "drive-by IP" as some of them say), especially since theoretically further responses would be very careful to give advice. Oh well. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see what the others I've asked say, and maybe post on the talk page about it over the weekend. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Let me give an example. Say somebody asks how many teeth an adult human should have. Under current rules, Medeis would hat the question as requesting medical advice, then everyone else would ignore her hatting or remove it, since it obviously isn't a request for medical advice. Under your proposed rule, somebody would give the answer, perhaps with a link, and Medeis would then delete it. Others wouldn't know the correct answer was deleted, and waste time providing their own answer, which she would then delete again. That's not an improvement. StuRat (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

If the question were "How many teeth does an adult human have?", then that's not asking for medical advice, and I think if anyone tried to remove it, they would be resisted. And drama would ensure. I think my solution could make it better - here's my scenario - if we agreed on a template, it could be added to the question (even though I think that would be erroneous, I wouldn't mind) Then someone can say "see our article on Human_tooth#Permanent_teeth, which says that a normal healthy human has 32 permanent teeth" - and if anyone tried to remove that answer, they'd be wrong to do so, and I'm fairly confident our community would act to restore the response. Btw, have a look at Medeis' talk page. I dropped a line there too, and she seems basically amenable... SemanticMantis (talk) 17:43, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Her argument would be that if we tell them how many teeth a normal adult human is supposed to have, that they would then conclude that they either have the correct number or incorrect number of teeth, which is a medical diagnosis, and we should not assist people in self-diagnosis. She's renowned for this type of absurd misinterpretation of the rules. Also, since some people have wisdom teeth and some don't she would also argue that we are not qualified to answer, and that they must consult their dentist.

And yes, her deletions would be reverted, if anyone knew she made them. They will only show up on our watch-lists until the next edit to that Ref Desk is made. I for one don't comb through the history of each Ref Desk page every hour to check to see what else she has deleted, and I doubt if anyone else does, either. So, the problem with unilateral deletions is they can easily slip under the radar. Not so for hatting or consensus deletions.

And I'm not at all surprised that she would favor any proposal that allows her to do unilateral deletions. StuRat (talk) 18:32, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm in no way trying to encourage deletions - exactly the opposite is my goal - to use a template instead of deleting. How about just the template, instead of hatting/closing? With nothing about further responses, neither explicitly preventing them nor allowing them. Something like this:

“

Hello, and welcome to the Misplaced Pages Reference desk. Your question seems to be seeking medical or legal advice. We do not give professional advice , header link]. Our goal here is to provide citations and links to informational references and WP articles. WP is the encyclopedia WP:ANYONE can edit, so we cannot make any guarantees (, , ). If you seek medical, legal, or other professional advice, please find a licensed practitioner in your jurisdiction.

”

The idea was just to get something fairly innocuous that we could agree on, that might both keep people from needlessly deleting things, and also help teach readers and posters about our guidelines. This form doesn't change any of our guidelines in any way, but it is designed to avoid any need to delete posts. If I can get Medeis (and others) to agree to post this template (or something similar) instead of deleting, wouldn't you call that progress, or at least a small improvement? I know I would, but I'm trying to see how others feel, so that I don't waste my time on a huge talk thread that accomplishes nothing. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:55, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

That looks OK, as long as they sign it. An unsigned template like that makes it look like it's a consensus statement, when it's really just one person's opinion. Is there a way to make a template always add the signature of the person who left it ? StuRat (talk) 01:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Piscine retribution

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Misrepresentation of the Star Wars Original Trilogy Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 1 Adar 5775 00:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Gentle...

...on My Mind, as sung by Ethel Merman. I doubt there's a recording of it anywhere. It was something I saw on a TV variety show back in the 60s. You've heard the expression about a singing voice that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard? This was worse. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Ha. Turns out it was on the Carol Burnett Show, March 3, 1969. So it might still exist somewhere. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Computing&diff=next&oldid=653489182#Quest_about_jkflip_flops_and_transition_state_diagramsg

please :( Doorknob747 (talk) 18:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Bedbugs question

Hi StuRat, I replied to your reply. Best wishes, Rich Peterson2601:7:6580:5E3:79CC:4600:8B68:8653 (talk) 06:27, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Areas of interest/expertise

Hi Stu, would you consider adding in some of your areas of interest/expertise to Misplaced Pages:RD_regulars? I know you're pretty expert on some types of computer stuff, maybe some physics and probably other things I don't even know about :) I'd like to get more people to participate so that it might become a useful resource for all of us. Thanks, SemanticMantis (talk) 14:33, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

a user who may need a friend

hello StuRat it is dfrr this user who goes by the name User:Trimethylxanthine has not been getting messages from anyone but me in fact only one other user has sent him a message when he first came here to wikipedia. so lets send him him barnstars wikiloves messages anything to make him feel like people know he is here at wikipedia. thank you and have a great springDfrr (talk) 09:27, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Darnell

Since you just brought it up: Was Darnell wearing a red shirt? The article doesn't mention it. — Sebastian 02:16, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

The pic (is that Darnell ?) seems to show a blue shirt. They weren't very consistent on shirt colors in Star Trek:TOS. StuRat (talk) 02:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Which pic? — Sebastian 02:30, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Right after my link to the article. Looks like he fell victim to the killer frog. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Either that or leeches, I would imagine. — Sebastian 02:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Invitation

I'd like to invite everyone to join the WikiProject R&B and Soul Music. We are currently on demand for new members, the project was dying, but with your help we can revive it and make it one of the best WikiProjects. Make me sure that you'll think about this and remember cooperative works can do amazing things. Regards Dfrr (talk) 10:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Inequality

Hey Stu! I believe that you have your second inequality backwards over at WP:RDMA#Algebra. Presumably Clover's wording was imprecise. Cheers! -- ToE 23:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Ah yes, good catch. Fixed now. Thanks, StuRat (talk) 23:47, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

It's still funky! The inequality shifts between both the first and second equation and between the second and third, though I can't quite tell which way Clover intended. BTW, I am somewhat confused at how someone who asks such a simple question can follow up with question about Rosenblatt transforms. -- ToE 00:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

The tricky part is "If x < y, then 1/x > 1/y, when x & y are both positive or both negative". We don't actually know that the left side is positive, do we ? I'm not sure what to do in this case. StuRat (talk) 02:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

If L is a real number, then e is positive. Also, I now see that Clover was clear about which inequality sign they meant where, with the first equation and the final answer using "greater than or equal to" and the intermediate equation using "less than or equal to". -- ToE 07:39, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Neutral Heading

Stu, you are well aware section headings are supposed to neutrally state an issue, not attack a single person. I am not the sole person who disagrees with you, keep you edits to the discussion because if you edit war over getting my name in the header I'll take action. μηδείς (talk) 03:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

As you well know, listing a person's name in the header doesn't make it not neutral. I mentioned your action and why you claimed you took it, and nothing else, in my latest version. Your "Answering opinion with opinion" header was not even close to being neutral. StuRat (talk) 03:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Ref desk problem - edit conflict?

Hi Stu, you seem to have inadvertently removed some other responses here. Did you have an edit conflict? DuncanHill (talk) 18:44, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I undid your edit so as to restore what was there before. Could you re-add your response, as it will be helpful to other readers? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 18:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

He probably shouldn't re-add it, as it was wrong. "Random" referred to the random order of cards in the machine, according to the magazine article (and common sense—random access is a feature of every filing system ever, so it wouldn't be a selling point). -- BenRG (talk) 19:04, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

No, the earliest computer systems could only read sequentially, and being able to access data non-sequentially was a real selling point. Of course, now it's like "stereo", so widespread you don't really need to say it anymore, but some people still do.

As for being able to retrieve any cards in the specific order, regardless of the order in which they are loaded, that's the same thing I was saying. StuRat (talk) 19:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Duncan. I got an edit conflict, but when I looked at it it seemed to take my changes, so I left it, not realizing it had somehow wiped out the conflicting edit. StuRat (talk) 19:27, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Change of section header

It's Viennese Waltz, not Vienna Waltz. --Viennese Waltz 14:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the correction. And I striked out the comment, not because what any men think, but because Deb didn't like it. StuRat (talk) 14:46, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that, although I don't agree with your reason. Men are just as entitled to object to sexist humour as women are, and their objections should carry no less weight. Your argument is like saying that a racist joke is acceptable as long as a black person finds it acceptable. --Viennese Waltz 08:29, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Not a racist joke, but saying things like "You my nigga !", which is acceptable in some black cultures. When everyone starts worrying about 3rd parties possibly getting offended, it becomes a political correctness nightmare. To put it in legal terms, you lack "standing" to object. StuRat (talk) 13:13, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Period

I'm sitting here wondering if all that, at RDL and the talk page, would have been avoided if I had simply ignored the comment from Dodger67. If I accomplished nothing but stirring the pot, I apologize. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, I appreciate it, anyway. Jayron never misses an opportunity to make a personal attack on me, amazing behavior for an Admin. I chose not to engage on either page, as that will just give them more opportunities for personal attacks. There seem to be a large number of people at the Ref Desk whose main purpose is to attack others, whether posters or responders. They all need to be more tolerant, and have a sense of humor. If the Ref Desk was as dull as they want to make it, I suspect it would die, because few would be interested in responding in their grey, boring world. StuRat (talk) 18:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Ptolemaic numbers

Many thanks for your answer, which opened up several other interesting sidelines! I came to the conclusion that the original context must have meant Greek numbers, pity they didn't say Greek instead of Ptolemaic but it does sound more interesting / mysterious this way. Followed up Ancient Egyptian and Latin but they wouldn't work in the context: http://www.artisandice.com/order/kanji-and-runic-d20s/ Yes, this is the inoffensive link which caused me to start hunting. I really appreciate such an expanded and encompassing answer. It's a win! 14.2.30.233 (talk) 04:57, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat (talk) 13:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Ref

Needed here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:06, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

If you go to his article, you should find all the refs you need. StuRat (talk) 05:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Pay attention

You do realize, of course, that the editor involved has been blocked indefinitely, that the question is not a request for references, and that the link will not go anywhere once the items are archived, so the clutter will serve no purpose whatsoever? Can you please explain why this material should be retained for any ref desk reason? μηδείς (talk) 01:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

It will remain in the archives as a record of what occurred, and is far more accessible there than if we needed to look through the history to try to find it in the future. But none of this really matters, as there was no valid reason given for a deletion. Having a dead link in no way qualifies as a good reason. StuRat (talk) 01:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

StuRat is spot on. DuncanHill (talk) 09:34, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@Medeis: Re the link, you can wait until the target has been archived and then modify the link to either a wikilink or a permalink to the section on the archive page. It takes less than a minute, no fuss, no muss. Whatever the arguments involved here, the link shouldn't be one of them. ―Mandruss ☎ 10:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Latin

Hi Sturat, can you please add your reference to your answer about the use of Latin being linked to democracy (here )? Thanks. 184.147.127.87 (talk) 20:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

It sounds like you misunderstood my use of the word. I didn't mean democratic forms of government, per se, but rather "the little guy having more say in the world". The form of government is one way that can happen, but also technology changes like the internet now allow everyone to have a say (for example, by rating businesses), whereas only a few in the media had a voice before. To look at one example, let's say your lawyer throws Latin phrases at you rather than say them in simple English (say "writ of habeas corpus" versus "an order to charge or release the prisoner"). You can leave a review of that lawyer that says he does that, and find another lawyer who doesn't, all using the internet. Eventually that lawyer will learn to use simple English or lose all his clients. StuRat (talk) 20:28, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

ISIS

Why on God's green earth did you feel the need to restore respond to that troll's speculations about biological warfare? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

It didn't look like trolling to me. I can certainly understand how someone might think "We defeated millions of enemies in WW2, so why can't we easily defeat a few thousand crazies ?". I haven't seen it explained on the news, either. So, I explained it. StuRat (talk) 20:56, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I almost never see eye-to-eye with user Fgf10, and we both agree it's trolling. The IP would be blocked already except the admins are asleep at the switch at AIV. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I will give them the benefit of the doubt until then. StuRat (talk) 21:32, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Who, the IP? Read his so-called contributions for today. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:35, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

The IP is now blocked. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I evaluate the Q, not the OP. If the Q seems reasonable, I answer it. Now if the OP gets banned, I will respect that, but I don't intend to start looking through all the contibutions of every OP before deciding if I will answer their Q. StuRat (talk) 21:41, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Fortunately, others will. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:44, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my question. Hats off to you for breaking the mold around here and helping a questioner.

Pissing against the wall

You asked:

I wonder if it meant "males over a certain age", as male babies wouldn't be able to "piss against the wall". I also wonder why the translators chose the word "piss", versus "urinate", which comes from Latin and is considered the more refined choice. StuRat (talk) 14:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if the phrase means to exclude babies but in general it is considered to include even young children. I kind of doubt that babies would be excluded though because the purpose was to eradicate the male line altogether. Maybe one should not understand the present "pisseth" too literally. Biblical Hebrew finite tenses and verbal adjectives have, as far as I know, more imprecise temporal implications than English (or Modern Hebrew) equivalents. The so called verbal aspect is as important. Maybe "a pisser against the wall" would be closer to the meaning of the Hebrew (see, btw, Wycliffe's translation below). Because the Hebrew word that is translated by "pisseth" is a verbal adjective, not a finite tense, it can mean "a pisser", i.e. someone whose nature it is to (maybe not today but one day) urinate against the wall. As to your second question, some of the more recent translators do use "urinate" and some forgo the metaphor altogether and put instead some such equivalent as "male" or "male child" etc. As to why the KJV uses "piss" instead of "urinate" I don't know. Maybe "urinate" was not yet commonly used in English. EtymOnline gives 1590s for that word but maybe it was still specialized medical terminology. The oldest translations all seem to use a derivative of "piss". Wycliffe's Bible has "a pisser on the wall" or "a pisser to the wall". Since Wycliffe's is translated not from the Hebrew but from the Latin Vulgate I would assume that Jerome too picked an earthy Latin word to translate the Hebrew (but I have not checked the text of the Vulgate). Amazingly Young's Literal Translation (literal!) uses "sitting on the wall" (!) which is completely wrong. But what do you expect from a Victorian translation? In any case the earthiness of "piss" is not meant to reflect any connotation of the word in Hebrew, I don't think, since the word used is the only one for urinating (in Biblical Hebrew). This said, the Hebrew Bible does uses circumlocutions for some bodily functions, e.g. it is said to use "covers his feet" for "defecates" for example in 1 Samuel 24:4 (לְהָסֵ֣ךְ אֶת־רַגְלָ֑יו) (in fact, as far as I know, no root for "defecating" has come down to us from Biblical Hebrew, or at least not in the text of the Bible), but I don't completely understand this because this is not a verb that is used in Modern Hebrew for "covers". In any case maybe the use in Hebrew of the literal word for "urinating", especially in this phrase, instead of a circumlocution, is, after all, a popular, earthy idiom used on purpose, for stylistic reasons, by the (highly sophisticated) writers of these texts. Some day I will try to see if this Hebrew root for "urinating" is used in the Bible other than in this specific idiom. Contact Basemetal here 17:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps when they said "defile" they meant "urinate" (could be "defecate", too). "Cover the feet" seems like a bizarre euphemism for defecate. They don't mean "cover the feet with feces" I hope. Maybe they just meant putting on shoes, in order to go outside to defecate ? StuRat (talk) 17:36, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure it is not "cover the feet with feces", and not only because that would be gross and entirely out of character with the habits of primitive people and in any case would take some doing given the standard squatting position which was general before the invention of the toilet seat. It is unthinkable that defecating on your own feet would have been such a standard modus operandi as to give rise to a phrase, even if it could conceivably occur as an accident to a particularly clumsy or hurried crapper. However that doesn't get us close to the origin of the phrase. If the ancient Hebrews had worn pants I could imagine "covering your feet" meant pulling down your pants. (This, btw, reminds me of a particularly funny scene in "Don Quixote") But they didn't. A robe on the other hand would be more likely to be pulled up than pulled down. Maybe the ancient Hebrews wore some kind of underwear, even if it was just a piece of rag, and that was pulled down and "covered the feet" so to speak, even though you'd better cover only the front of your feet, for obvious reasons. I'll ask someone who knows Biblical Hebrew well. Contact Basemetal here 20:12, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

This reminds me of something interesting I heard on the radio last night. Apparently an estimated 550,000 people in India still defecate outdoors. They seem to prefer it, even when an outhouse is available (I would guess because of the smell). But, as you can imagine, this leads to the spread of disease, and sure doesn't do much for tourism. So, the local governments have started using "walls of shame", where they snap pics of offenders "in the act" and post them in town. That seems to be having the desired effect. :-) StuRat (talk) 20:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Good thing they don't put it on the net, Instagram or Flickr I've often wondered why homo sapiens is so poorly equipped for mass communal defecation When you see those seal colonies or penguin colonies or any seabird colony with millions of animals all happily defecating next to each other (try to imagine that) without any adverse effect (I'm not sure about the seals and sea lions, maybe they do it in the sea) it makes you wonder. (Do you know what the guano in Peru is? There's literally mountains of that stuff!) It is true cats are also very particular. It seems, as far as that is concerned, homo sapiens behaves more like a cat or a tiger or a predatory animal, than a social animal like a monkey ought to. I've got only two cats, but if I don't clean their litter box everyday its a revolution. I'm basically my cats' tattiwallah (or whatever that is called in India). Ok, I have to take out the turds everyday, but I've got three or four days to change the litter. But, seriously, only about half a million people? That sounds to me like a huge underestimate. The Times of India and The Hindu put it at more like 600 million. Besides hygiene and tourism there is that of domestic animals, such as dogs, eating the feces, and if it's too far from the village, the problem of attacks by wild animals, of scorpions, snakes, etc, and for women, the danger of rape, especially if done after dark. Btw, it's not always the fault of the people practicing it given the ghastly state of public toilets. I'm sure there are technical solutions to this problem (which is a problem in India and elsewhere, see article Open defecation). In my opinion, at least in the countryside, one has to start by having every family have their own toilet (preferably a composting toilet) of which they take care personally as opposed to public toilets. Relying on public toilets and professional "toilet cleaners" especially those belonging to a specialized caste who operate with minimal technology is bound to fail and the toilets will remain in that horrible state that drives people to prefer open defecation. Every family in the countryside should take care of its own toilet. In the cities, though, you have to have public toilets of course, and the problem is different. Paradoxically it seems the problem, at least in India, is more acute in the countryside. Contact Basemetal here 21:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I missed a set of zeroes. That's 550 million. As for other animals, I think it does spread disease and shorten lifespans, this being one reason why most animals live longer in captivity, since we clean up the manure. StuRat (talk) 22:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

• A documentary on bathroom repair in ancient Israel here Contact Basemetal here 11:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey Sturat

The issue I presented at Refdesk\Computing wasn't really resolved after all... It's wired, please see there. Would thank you dearly, Ben. Ben-Yeudith (talk) 00:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Teazle (video game) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Teazle (video game) is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Teazle (video game) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. – czar 21:47, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

stool thread

Stu, if you check that IP's contributions, you'll see that the thread you restored was already posted and is already being discussed on the misc desk also. —Steve Summit (talk) 02:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I see. The Science Desk seems like the proper place for it. I suggest cross links and/or moving one. StuRat (talk) 03:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Re: Losing fat without aerobic exercise or eating excess protein

According to User_talk:Justin545#Losing_fat_without_aerobic_exercise_or_eating_excess_protein, you mentioned "Surprisingly, eating fats don't seem to make you gain fat", is there any reference about that? Thanks. Justin545 (talk) 09:57, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

cites several studies. The main problem with low-fat diets is that they tend to replace the missing fats with increase carbs, including bad carbs like refined sugar and white flour. Those cause a sugar spike followed by an insulin spike followed by converting that blood sugar into body fat. StuRat (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

was this nasty?

am I being nasty? But I am right, am I? I have had it with these people, what do they think the internet is? Asmrulz (talk) 21:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

You should try to be more patient. I would have just stated that I doubt if anyone would get enjoyment out of that and ask if they can provide any sources that prove otherwise. StuRat (talk) 21:10, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I toned it down a bit for less drama Asmrulz (talk) 23:09, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Control F

Re. your post here, I now have the same problem after chrome updated when I did a weekly re-boot on one of my devises (PC). Thought I let you know. Cheers, --TMCk (talk) 14:55, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. At least if it's something they did, we can have some hope they will fix it, too. Seems like there's a logical problem that both the search pop-up window and the window to be searched need to be "on top" for it to work, but only one can be on top at a time. Not sure how they ever got around this. StuRat (talk) 18:04, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's them who screwed up. So now at least you know there is nothing more for you to do other than waiting and hoping for a fix soon to be implemented ;) --TMCk (talk) 18:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Come on, Stu

This looks personal. Not how you usually operate. Come on, for consistency's sake you could probably create volumes of such diffs for a majority of users (including User:Stu Rat). ... ---Sluzzelin talk 23:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but Jayron is the chief hyprocrite, and I intend to have links handy the next time he asks for refs on something completely obvious (thus not requiring refs). My links will have cases where a link is really needed, but Jayron refused to provide them. I may very well add other editors refusals to provide links to the list, if they start launching hypocritical attacks like Jayron has. StuRat (talk) 00:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

revert

This edit reintroduced a bunch of archived content which the bot dutifully archived a second time. So now it may be in the archives twice; I don't have time (or battery life on this chargerless laptop tonight) to investigate further. --Steve Summit (talk) 03:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I was trying to fix the revert before that, which seemed to have inadvertently deleted all that, as well as restoring other material. Did the archiving and his revert all get combined into a single edit somehow ? StuRat (talk) 03:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Not sure. I'll look at it some more tonight. --Steve Summit (talk) 16:26, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

It looks to me like the revert before yours was proper, and did not need reverting.

• this edit. at 17:12 on November 11, basically reverted back to 14:31 on November 9, after the bot archived November 1 but before it archived November 2. So it restored three days' worth of archived content, and deleted everything that had been added since
• this edit. at 17:18, perfectly reverted the previous, deleting the re-added archived content and restoring the deleted content
• but then your edit re-restored the archived content. --Steve Summit (talk) 04:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Archives finally cleaned up. (I don't know what 5.81.235.234 (talk · contribs) has been up to. --Steve Summit (talk) 03:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks. StuRat (talk) 05:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Regarding...

this - when are you going to start paying attention to what's going on? Do that kind of thing one too many times, and someone's going to suggest banning you from the ref desks. Don't let it get to that point, please. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:12, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

His edit summary just said "(Reverted edits by 80.44.165.173 (talk) to last version by Paulscrawl)". Absolutely no mention that he was reverting a banned user. We can't be expected to read minds. StuRat (talk) 06:04, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

The revert came 2 minutes AFTER the IP was blocked for block evasion. No mind-reading about it. When an admin reverts without comment, it behooves you to pay attention to what's going on. Before you think about re-reverting, check to see if the reverted user is blocked. If you're not in the habit of doing that, you had best start. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 10:03, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I had no idea that was an Admin, I've never seen him before, And it's not our responsibility to research a revert to try to figure out the motivation behind it, which could take every editor who looks at it quite some time, it's the responsibility of the person doing the revert to state the reason explicitly in the edit summary, which takes one person 30 seconds. StuRat (talk) 16:27, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, Stu, you're wrong here. And this is the same case as the one just above.

When you looked at the history before the revert you made, you would have seen this:

• (cur | prev) 18:51, 14 November 2015 Elockid (talk | contribs) m . . (86,079 bytes) (-5,611) . . (Reverted edits by 80.44.165.173 (talk) to last version by Paulscrawl) (undo | thank)

• (cur | prev) 18:50, 14 November 2015 80.44.165.173 (talk) . . (91,690 bytes) (+5,611) . . (For the lowdown on Future Perfect at Sunset see User talk:Dweller#Shenanigans at the reference desk.) (undo)

• (cur | prev) 17:49, 14 November 2015 Paulscrawl (talk | contribs) . . (86,079 bytes) (+164) . . (→Dali's Mustache (St. Petersburg): Which artist?: and the name is ... ?) (undo | thank)

Now, look at those numbers. +5,611, -5,611. It sure looks like Elockid reverted the immediately-previous edit by 80.44.165.173. This sort of thing happens all the time. It is your job to make the determination whether Elockid or 80.44.165.173 was the vandal, perhaps by clicking on the diff links. Yes, this is a nuisance and takes a little more time. But if you fail to do so, then vandals such as 80.44.165.173 will trick you into doing their work for them, which is exactly what happened here.

This pattern happens a lot. The vandal picks an old version, edits it, and submits it. The edit therefore looks like (as you were asking me about earlier) a combination of deletions and insertions. Any insertions between the old and the current version get deleted, but any deletions between the old and the current version (such as done by the archiving bot, or by other vandal fighters, etc.) get re-inserted.

It's absolutely fine to do a simple revert of such an edit, as Elockid did, simultaneously restoring the deleted content, re-deleting any improperly-restored content, and deleting the vandal's addition. (And please don't blame Elockid for not supplying the edit comment you wish they had, because vandals have figured that out, too, and will use edit comments like "rvv" when they're committing vandalism, in hopes of tricking gullible editors like you into supporting them.)

You're not helping the project when you unrevert vandal-fighting reversions in cases like these. It probably took me an hour, spread out over several days, to clean up the mess that resulted after the last time you did this (when your unreverted content stuck around long enough to get archived a second time). If you can't be bothered to be a bit more careful when fighting vandals, please leave the work to people who can. —Steve Summit (talk) 15:03, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Please explain to me why the Admin failing to write "Reverting banned editor" was a good decision on his part. As for me, I did look at the changes, and didn't see anything obviously wrong with the content. That, in combination with a deletion with no explanation given, by somebody I never saw before, made it look like that was the vandalism. StuRat (talk) 16:13, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

It has been discussed over and over and over again, on the talk page, that when reverting trolls, it is best to be as low-key as possible. Your unwillingness to look at these situations serves to feed the trolls. Please stop feeding the trolls. Look at the contribs of the two editors and find out what's going on before you draw conclusions or take action. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:26, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, the "Reverted edits by xxx to last version by yyy" edit summary is the default one provided by Undo or Rollback or one of the other similar streamlined reversion tools. As far as I know, there is no requirement that users tweak the default message (and I believe that's especially true when one is mopping up after vandalism in a hurry). I know that, when I use these tools, I don't always take time to tweak the default message. I know that, when I see these default messages in edit histories, I tend to assume they're vandalism reversion.

It's fine to wish that people routinely did more in terms of edit summaries on reversions, but I think policy and common practice are currently against you. —Steve Summit (talk) 04:24, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Detroit sidewalks

Since you answered my sidewalks-in-Detroit question at WP:RDH several weeks ago, I thought you might be amused/saddened/somethingelse by looking at this image, taken in Poletown East when I made another Detroit photo trip a couple of weeks ago. No money for most things, but they've just put in tactile paving on these never-going-to-be-used sidewalks. Nyttend (talk) 21:16, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

My guess is that they got a Federal grant to do that. That's good for Detroit in that they aren't diverting other funds needed badly to rebuild Detroit, and presumably employing Detroiters to install them, but of course bad in the big picture, in that the Federal government should spend the taxpayer's money more wisely. Hopefully something will be built there eventually and they will be put to good use. StuRat (talk) 01:07, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

This trolling speaks for itself Stu. See the current discussions at both Talk and ANI

• (cur | prev) 14:31, 22 November 2015‎ Favonian (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (66,882 bytes) (-1,184)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 190.237.42.153 (talk) to last version by Future Perfect at Sunrise) updated since my last visit (undo | thank)
• (cur | prev) 14:30, 22 November 2015‎ 190.237.42.153 (talk)‎ . . (68,066 bytes) (+1,184)‎ . . (Undid revision 691872456 by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk)) updated since my last visit (undo)
• (cur | prev) 14:22, 22 November 2015‎ Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk | contribs)‎ . . (66,882 bytes) (-1,184)‎ . . (rv proxying for block-evading troll) updated since my last visit (undo | thank)
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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Note 2

You're an island of calm in a sea of storms. Or have you not checked your talk page history in recent weeks? :) Have you thought of having your page semi'd? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:05, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

No need for that. I've just been ignoring it all. StuRat (talk) 03:37, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

That's fine. You've got plenty of users watching out for you. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 10:06, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

StuRat, would you mind archiving your talkpage? You've got >200 threads on this page, spanning almost 10 years. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 17:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

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83 - Russian questions

I don't understand any of their questions. Maybe you mean that that one is even more incomprehensible than most. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:08, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I can decipher most of them, but not that one. StuRat (talk) 19:13, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

At least they are not a troll, just unable to communicate in English. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Continuing off-topic debate

Keeping murders down to a minimum is good thing, and if severe penalties act as a worthwhile disincentive, well and good. Mind you, the most severe possible penalty is execution, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the death penalty is not a disincentive, which is at least part of the reason why most countries have abandoned it. And if the death penalty is no disincentive, why would any lesser penalty work either (assuming one considers spending 25 years to the rest of your life behind bars to be a lesser penalty than death). But let's leave that argument aside for now.

I believe those studies showed the death penalty was not a disincentive WHEN COMPARED WITH LONG PRISON TERMS. That is, both are about equal disincentives. (Some people prefer death over long prison sentences, some are the reverse.) StuRat (talk) 22:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

The rest of what you say does not bear examination. As you always do, Stu, you've confected an argument in order not to have to change your position, or back down, or admit you misspoke.

Having a severe penalty for murder (not to mention other high crimes) does not mean the law assumes all citizens to be potential murderers, and I challenge you to produce any evidence to say that it does.

The law realises that human beings are imperfect and sometimes do things that are unacceptable to society, and when that happens, there has to be a system to deal with it. The crime must precede the response. Which is why if you go to the police and claim your neighbour is planning to murder you, they will demand evidence of actual threat, or actual plans to carry out such a deed, other than "He looked at me in a funny way". In no jurisdiction on Earth can someone be apprehended on the grounds that someone else believes they are intending to break some law, but without anything that would constitute evidence. So, no, the law does not assume everyone to be a potential murderer.

Equally, just because there are penalties for corruption, insider trading and all the rest of it, does not mean that all people engaged in public affairs (including politicians, lawyers, judges, police, financial advisers, accountants, property developers, salespeople and on and on) are assumed to be potentially corrupt or dishonest. It's just that, if they do act in a corrupt or dishonest way, there's a price to be paid. Would you have it any other way? Sure, laws have been toughened and tightened to respond to the changing landscape, where new and creative ways to make a quick and dirty buck or gain/stay in power are always being dreamt up. Laws will surely continue to change. But this is a very far cry from the law assuming all politicians to be dishonest.

If an individual wishes to take the position of distrusting all politicians, that is a matter for them. But that would be a very ill-thought out position to adopt, imo. You don't distrust your personal financial adviser / accountant / lawyer / doctor / dentist / car repairer just because some financial advisers etc have been known to be corrupt or act unprofessionally. Do you? You must lead a pretty sad life if you do. And just because you've managed to find a truly honest financial adviser etc, does not mean that all other people in these categories are dishonest. Or even that the majority are dishonest. Or anything remotely like that.

I know, how about you distrust all human beings because, let's face it, all human beings are fallible and make mistakes and cause harm/pain to others. Best to be protected. Sounds like a plan. Good luck with it. The trick is, how do you manage to trust yourself, the only person on the planet worthy of your trust? -- Jack of Oz 21:09, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I do distrust all professionals:

1) I wouldn't give a blank check to a financial adviser or accountant. Would you ?

• I would never give a blank cheque to anyone, ever. Not because I distrust everyone, but because it's a really, really imprudent thing to do. Pieces of paper can sometimes land in the wrong hands, through no fault of the trusted person you gave it to. -- Jack of Oz 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

2) I would get a 2nd opinion for any major procedure recommended by a doctor or dentist. Wouldn't you ?

• Not as a general rule, no. In a particular case, I might; but I've never had cause to do so thus far. -- Jack of Oz 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

3) I wouldn't pay a garage fully, in advance, and would insist on a written estimate. Would you ?

• Who ever pays a garage in advance? Never heard of such a thing. For major work, any garage worth its salt would offer a written estimate without waiting to be asked; but I'd certainly ask if they didn't offer one. But that's not because I distrust them. If that were the case, I wouldn't be using their services to begin with. It's just that I might be able to get a better deal elsewhere, and a written quote could help to sway the deal. -- Jack of Oz 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Plus, there are penalties if they misbehave, from losing their license to operate to fines to prison time, so there is a disincentive for such behavior. If there were no legal checks on them, then I'd need to research each extremely thoroughly to determine which are the honest ones.

• That demolishes your own argument. You now acknowledge that NOT ALL professionals are dishonest, contrary to your statement above. But even if you take the position that they're all "would-be dishonest if only there weren't those pesky penalties", at the end of the day it's how they actually operate that matters to you. If they treat you in a honest and legal manner, you'd never know whether it's because (a) they're naturally honest and always act that way, or (b) they'd have rather ripped you off but they considered the risk was too great. Either way, you wouldn't care. Unless you're one of those people who suspect people's motives even when they're behaving completely appropriately. -- Jack of Oz 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• Everyone isn't dishonest, everyone is POTENTIALLY dishonest. Specifically, different people evaluate the risk of dishonesty versus reward equation differently. For some, they would cheat even if they had a 99% chance of being punished, while others wouldn't with even a 1% chance. Of course, the actual punishment matters, too. And I don't particularly care if they act honestly out of fear of getting caught if they are dishonest. All I care about is the result. An interesting fact is that many psychopaths don't go around murdering people, just because they are afraid of punishment. StuRat (talk) 22:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As for not arresting people for being potential murderers, of course not, since that's not illegal. There have been some cases where the police assumed somebody could not possibly be a murderer, due to their position in society (such as fellow police officers), only to be proven quite wrong.

I recently had a case of a minor fender-bender, with no visible damage, and the other guy later said he needed $600 in repairs. After I asked to see the estimate from the garage, and he never contacted me again. Would you have just paid up ? StuRat (talk) 21:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• Obviously not. What does this have to do with what we're discussing? -- Jack of Oz 22:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• If I trusted everyone, I would have just paid him and not asked for proof. StuRat (talk) 22:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• Who ever said we should trust everyone? I never said anything like that.
• It's wise to act prudently, and mitigate risks, and not unnecessarily expose oneself to risk, and insure one's property even against unlikely threats. But you're advocating distrusting ALL professionals, specifically ALL politicians. That is a completely different matter. -- Jack of Oz 23:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• I'm not seeing any difference. I don't trust random strangers because they are potentially dishonest. Whether you admit it or not, this is why you don't trust them either. StuRat (talk) 23:35, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

The relevant points you made at Entertainment Ref Desk were:

• (John M Baker) If you believe that honest politicians don't exist, you ensure that they never will. You have to be willing and able to identify and reward honesty in politics. To refuse to do this is to work actively against honesty in the public sphere. John M Baker (talk) 19:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)}}

• I disagree. If we assume them to be honest, they can get away with dishonesty. If we assume them to be dishonest, and put in enough checks on them to counter this tendency, like Freedom of Information Acts, Abuse of authority laws with severe penalties, and whistleblower laws to protect those who turn them in, etc., then we can hopefully put in enough of a disincentive to dishonesty to get them to behave. StuRat (talk) 20:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• What's Utopian about assuming the worst of politicians and taking actions to at least limit the damage they cause ? StuRat (talk) 05:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Then you changed tack from "all politicians are dishonest" to "all politicians are potentially dishonest":

• You asked "...does this mean that people are generally assumed to be murderers?". My answers is yes, we are all be assumed to be potential murderers, and thus we need to maintain a system where murderers are likely to be severely punished, in order to keep the number of murders down to a minimum. To continue your analogy with politicians, we should similarly maintain a system where corrupt politicians are likely to be severely punished, in order to keep the number of politicians who engage in corruption down to a minimum. StuRat (talk) 17:37, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• I assume all politicians to be dishonest, because they are all potentially dishonest. Maybe "assume" means something different in Oz. Here it doesn't mean that it is the case, just that you prepare as if it were. StuRat (talk) 01:33, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• If that's true, it can only be because all humans are potentially dishonest. It's not as if a previously honest person becomes instantly dishonest the moment they get elected to political office. But you talk as if this is a real possibility, from which you must protect yourself. -- Jack of Oz 05:27, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• Yes, all people are potentially dishonest, but certain professions, like used car salesman and politician, select for those who are dishonest. Just like a used car salesman that tells you everything that's wrong with the car and how little he paid for it won't make many sales, a politician who tells everyone he will raise taxes and lower benefits won't get many votes. There are also jobs that select against dishonesty. For example, I just had a waitress bring me a stained plate, and when I asked her for an unstained plate she said "they're all like that" and refused. I've eaten there before, and know they aren't all stained, so she got a minimal tip. StuRat (talk) 17:09, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• Well, you're doing what many people do, but about which you ought to know better: using single anecdotes to make a general case. That just does not stack up, and I know you know that. Look, I know it's a common thing to decry politicians, used car salesmen, lawyers etc as being the scum of the earth in the honesty stakes. ("How do you know when a politician's lying? When his lips are moving - that sort of thing.) But you talk as if this general perception is valid material to justify a belief and attitude that each and every individual politician is a lying corrupt scumbag. I know you know that is far from the truth. So, you're committing two errors: (1) using specific cases to prove a generality; and (2) using a (perception of a) generality to prove specific cases. You simply cannot do either of those things, as long as you wish to be considered a person of a reasonable cast of mind and mature intellectual demeanour. -- Jack of Oz 20:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• You still don't seem to understand what I was saying, let me try again: NOT ALL POLITICIANS ARE DISHONEST, BUT MANY ARE, AND MORE WILL BE, IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, SO WE SHOULD TAKE PRECAUTIONS TO DETERMINE WHICH ONES ARE, AND PUNISH THOSE ENOUGH TO ACT AS A DISINCENTIVE TO OTHERS. StuRat (talk) 20:25, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• I hear you loud and clear. But I naturally object to the "but we should assume they are" bit and all that follows.
• I can see I've got you angry now, so I'd better quit while I'm ahead. :) Let us agree to disagree. -- Jack of Oz 20:31, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• I'm still thinking "assume" means something different in Oz. Let me give an example to explain it. Police officers are trained to assume that everyone has a gun and wants to shoot them. This does NOT mean that they should shoot everyone to protect themselves. This means they should watch the hands of each person and try to identify what they are holding and where it is aimed (if it could be a gun), and react accordingly. StuRat (talk) 20:36, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• No, I know exactly what "assume" means. It means you act as if something were true for the purposes of a particular context, knowing that it is not, or not necessarily, true otherwise. But you never give any context. Just being a politician is enough. If a person's role in society at a given moment is politician, you advocate they not be trusted, not necessarily because we know him/her to be dishonest, but because it's not safe to trust them. But the moment they leave politics and take on some other profession, they're suddenly trustworthy again? Is that it? Or, if you're saying that NOBODY should be trusted if we have insufficient knowledge of them, then just say that. Don't make it about a particular group of people (the group, ironically, chosen by the voting populace to represent them. What does that say about the voting public? They don't trust themselves?). -- Jack of Oz 20:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• I said that long ago: " I don't trust random strangers because they are potentially dishonest." However, trusting politicians is more dangerous, both because that is one of the professions which selects for dishonesty, and because the consequences of dishonest politicians are far worse. The Flint Water Crisis is one example near me, where dishonest politicians claimed the water was safe to drink, even though they knew it was not, and poisoned many, and killed maybe ten, due to Legionnaires' disease. StuRat (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• I don't know what you mean by "professions which selects for dishonesty". Can you explain? With a source if possible. -- Jack of Oz 23:05, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• I already explained, and gave examples (used car salesman and waitress). And no, I'm not going to scour the web to find refs for an off-topic discussion on my talk page. Go find your own. StuRat (talk) 23:14, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

• No, I don't even understand the English of "selects for <something>". Is it a recognised expression? I see you've used both "select for" and "select against" above. I've searched wiktionary and Google for an explanation of the idiom (if that's what it is), without any luck. I can understand a person selecting politics as a career, but not "politics selecting for dishonesty". -- Jack of Oz 07:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

• The profession of politician "selects for" dishonesty, in that those who are dishonest are more likely to be successful, and thus also more likely to choose that profession. And if an honest politician does manage to get in, they will likely be voted out of office when they tell the voters some truth that the voters don't want to hear. For example, in the US, if a politician were to say "The US is in decline relative to China, which will soon be the most powerful nation on Earth, politically, militarily, and economically, as a result of our decision to open up free trade with them, and there's no way to undo it now, so we just need to accept it", they would be voted out.

• Here's a use of "selects against": , in this case meaning that certain antibiotic combinations will actually reduce the proportion of antibiotic resistant microbes. (A single antibiotic, of course, "selects for" resistance to that antibiotic, by killing any microbes which aren't resistant to it.) StuRat (talk) 17:24, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

• Thanks for that. I've sought more clarification on the expression and its origins on the Language Ref Desk.
• Now that I know what you're talking about, can you give me a source for "those who are dishonest are more likely to be successful, and thus also more likely to choose that profession" (politician)? Or is that simply an opinion you hold? -- Jack of Oz 22:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

• There's not going to be a study of the relative honesty of politicians, as it would require their honest participation. StuRat (talk) 00:02, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

• Then how would anyone ever know that your premise is correct? It all comes down to personal perception and personal opinion, doesn't it. -- Jack of Oz 09:29, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
• May I take it that silence denotes agreement? -- Jack of Oz 06:36, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

• No you may not. Politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear. Thus it is in their self-interest to lie. If you think people don't act in their own self-interest, then the entire basis for capitalism is wrong. StuRat (talk) 15:44, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

• Self-interest is fine, nay, mandatory, as long as it doesn't override the interests of others for which the self is to some degree responsible or with whom the self is associated. The whole basis of win-win depends on the self winning as well as others winning. Any of the other 3 combinations (win-lose, lose-win, lose-lose) turns out to be equivalent to lose-lose. "Politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear" - sure they do. But does that automatically mean that whatever they say, they will turn around and do something different, or nothing at all? No, it doesn't. Broken promises get all the bad press, but there are plenty of examples of fulfilled promises. So, decent politicians get elected by telling people what they want to hear, and then work hard to give them what they promised. -- Jack of Oz 20:56, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

• People always want lower taxes and more benefits, so to get elected they must promise that, which is clearly impossible. And why does a win-lose situation always turn into lose-lose ? A sports event comes to mind as a case where one side often wins and the other loses. How did both lose ? StuRat (talk) 03:54, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Somewhat simplistic. Do you really believe that all politicians always promise lower taxes? There has never been a recorded exception? What about such a promise being out of synch with their party's official policy? And if it's so obviously impossible to achieve, what idiots would promise it regardless? And what idiot voters would believe them if they did? You can see through such impossible promises, so why can't the general mass of voters? And has there never been a case of a politician promising lower taxes, and actually delivering? There must have been, because taxes are actually lowered from time to time. No, it seems you're just trotting out vague cliches like "All politicians are liars", and treating them as incontrovertibly proven facts. And when I ask you to produce some proof, you just give me more of the same.

• Trump is promising all sorts of things he can't possible deliver, like getting Mexico to pay for a wall with the US, and he seems to gain more supporters with each whopper he tells. And I never said all politicians were dishonest, you keep making that part up. I've explained that several times now, yet you refuse to learn. StuRat (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Yes, my bad. Your thesis is that all politicians are potentially dishonest, but we must treat all of them as if they were all actually dishonest. Which is indistinguishable, in effect, from saying they are all actually dishonest. I think we've been on this merry-go-round before. -- Jack of Oz 20:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• No, you don't treat them the same as if they were corrupt, which would mean you would throw them in jail. I gave the example of the police who assume every suspect has a gun and wants to kill police, but this does not mean they shoot all suspects. StuRat (talk) 21:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Win-win obviously doesn't apply to competitive sports and games, where by definition the only way to win is by making the other side lose. I'm talking about general human interactions. I think you know that. -- Jack of Oz 05:05, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Sports are human interactions. But if you want a non-sports example, say two people are up for the promotion to supervisor. One wins it and the other loses out. How did the person who won really lose ? StuRat (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• That's still a competitive context, where, by definition, there can be only one winner. A better example would be this very discussion. If both you and I treated it as a competitive contest and went all out to disprove the other's position, the one who ultimately felt forced to capitulate may feel vanquished and the other victorious. That's not an ideal outcome. If we were friends before we started, that friendship should be unaffected at the end, no matter what the outcome. That's why it's best to put points forward in good faith, and seriously consider what the other has to say, without rejecting their responses out of hand, or without contriving counter-examples designed to fit one's own case. Ultimately the discussion will come to its natural conclusion (as long as we don't allow it to just peter out through loss of interest/energy, or come to a stalemate). Both will have learnt something, and both will go away with a more nuanced understanding, even of their own position, certainly of the other's. There will be no "I told you so", or "I was right and you were wrong". Neither will feel they have "lost", because it should never have been about that in the first place. In that sense, both will "win". The way to proceed with such things is to want yourself to win while also wanting the other to win - and acting accordingly. The usual way we do things in the West is to want oneself to win while wanting the other to lose. Where has that got us as a culture? If you end up feeling that you have won at the other's expense, then some damage has been done to the relationship, and before long you'll realise that you have lost too. That's why win-lose, lose-win and lose-lose are all equivalent: lose-lose. -- Jack of Oz 20:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• So you can have a win-lose in any competitive situation, apparently, which to me is the only time the terms win and lose apply in the first place. StuRat (talk) 21:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• That's far from true. You need to get out of the competitive mindset. I acknowledge that may be anathema to the way you were brought up. There's a vast literature about the application of win-win in general human personal interactions where there isn't, or shouldn't be, a competitive aspect. In any commercial negotiation, if both parties don't come away feeling they have both won, then the negotiation has failed, regardless of immediate appearances. Here are just two of the multitude of hits: , . Stephen Covey gets most of the credit for the philosophy these days, but it long, long predated him. -- Jack of Oz 22:14, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

True, I don't give random strangers money on whatever pretext they may offer, or ask them to mind my granddaughter while I run an errand, or whatever. It's not because I actively distrust them, it's that I know nothing about them, and certainly not enough to know with reasonable certainty my money or grandchild is safe with them. If you can't see the difference between that very responsible and prudent position, and "all politicians are (potentially) dishonest", I cannot help you. -- Jack of Oz 00:49, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

There are only 2 possibilities with random strangers, you either trust them or you don't. If you did, then you would indeed give them money and ask them to watch your granddaughter. StuRat (talk) 23:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

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Mathematics

I responded to your question on the mathematics antics reference page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crlinformative (talk • contribs) 00:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC) I added another way to understand the problem on the mathematics reference page. I am still no understanding which part of the previous statements you are both not understanding. If you could point out which sentence or which measurement you don't understand I would be happy to clarify that statement. @ StuRat (Crlinformative (talk) 04:46, 30 March 2016 (UTC))

The problem is you start somewhere in the middle of the question, assuming we already know things we don't. That was the Math Ref Desk, so you shouldn't assume biological knowledge there, only math knowledge. You should have started with something like this:

How many spherical items can be packed into a container ?

1) The items have a radius of R.

2) The container has a shape of A, and dimensions of B×C×D.

Note that I've stripped off all the biology that really isn't relevant to the problem. You also use rather nonstandard units, like 60/1000 of a mm. If you could put that in decimal form it would be more convenient. At first look I thought you meant 60 out of 1000 trials or something like that. StuRat (talk) 06:18, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

The biology is reference to the problem, math is often in word problems. It takes a lot of effort to post to Misplaced Pages with this touch pad. Also, most people don't know what a μm is , but it is 1/1,1000 of a meter. Use a sphere for the first question with a diameter of 5cm. Generally on tests you are instructed to skip the questions you don't know and go to the next, there are many math questions contained in those paragraphs. Like I said, math often comes in the form of worded problems, there was a lot of reference information their which relates to the real world application for this math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crlinformative (talk • contribs) 06:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Right, and those tests are to test people's ability to decipher a question from all that text, but we are not here to be tested, so just give us the problem in as straightforward a way as you can manage, please. JBL mentioned that you seemed to be writing in a stream of consciousness (narrative mode) manner, meaning you just write things down as you think of them, not attempting to organize your thoughts in any way. I agree. Also, your title doesn't name the problem (something like "Spherical packing problem" would make sense), and you spelled dilemma wrong. And you still haven't shown us your complete math. StuRat (talk) 06:37, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Are you going to do the math? The cell count is 500,000 and the diameter of those each cell is 20μm. How large would the required container be and how many of these cells would fit into a sphere with a diameter of 5cm. There are multiple avenues for reaching this data and one method gave a vastly different answer, while all volume related methods lend that such a capacity of cells is an mathematical impossibility. (Crlinformative (talk) 07:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC))

No, it's your responsibility to do the math, then we review it and point out any mistakes. This is to prevent people from having us do their homework for them. StuRat (talk) 07:30, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm attempting to get a second look at this information I order to rebuke the referenced information on a cell count reported everywhere the ovaries or oocytes are mentioned on Misplaced Pages. But here is the math I had and saved before a doctor deleted it from the talk page in defense of the references I suppose.

The volume using the above referenced cell measurement is ≈4.19mm. I will show the work with the math symbols: 4/3π(10μm)3≈ 4,188.79μm3 ; 4,188.79μm3 ÷ 1,000 = 4.18879mm3 ; 4.18879mm3∗ 500,000 = 2,094,395mm3 ; 2,094,395mm3 ÷ π ≈ 666,666.63407mm3 ; 666,666.63407mm3÷ 4/3 ≈ 499,999.97555mm3 ; 3√499,999.97555mm3 ≈ 79.37mm ; 79.37mm ÷10 = 7.937cm in radius.

The adult human ovary is reported to be 4cm x 3cm x 2cm so how can this volume fit inside of it? (The radius found is for a sphere which contains the volume of 500,000 cells, being a lesser measurement than actual reality as you loose the negative spaces you would incur by the stacking of spheres). (Crlinformative (talk) 08:28, 30 March 2016 (UTC))

(talk page stalker) Crlinformative, there's an error in your math when converting volume units. If 1000um = 1mm, then (1000um)^3 = (1000x1000x1000)um3 = 1 000 000 000um3 = 1mm3. So where you're dividing by 1000 to convert from um3 to mm3 you should be dividing by 1000000000. I think the numbers work out then. Good luck. 99.236.126.232 (talk) 14:54, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, please try it again and list your math and I will take another look at it. StuRat (talk) 16:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Did you just try to use distraction methodology; the doctor did the same when arguing. 5um x3um x 87um = 1,305um. In conversions in the lab when you multiply unit symbols the symbols themselves multiply and to convert from one symbol to another you go by the number of mL in L, ect. So my question is why do you cube the conversion rate? Is it that you are converting each part of the volume gaining measurement? This is where I found the mathematical query, the difference in volume when using a cuboidal method and spherical method. That's what I was calling the mathematical dilemma. I will use the cell count of 1,000,000 for comparison to what IP address 99.236.126.232 wrote and not convert to avoid that potential error, this will enlighten the difference between cuboidal and spherical volume:

 (4/3)π(10μm)3≈ 4,188.79μm3 ; 4,188.79μm3∗ 1,000,000 = 4,188,879,000μm3 ; 4,188,879,000μm3 ÷ π ≈ 1,333,333,268.15μm3 ; 1,333,333,268.15μm3÷ 4/3 ≈ 999,999,951.11μm3 ; 3√999,999,951.11μm3 ≈ 999.99998μm ; 999.99998μm ÷ 1,000 ≈ 0.999mm in radius.   

So why is the cuboidal measurement of the volume of this diameter/radius so much larger than the spherical volume containment of the same volumes? The doctor's claim is that 20μm x 100 is 2,000μm and 100x100x100 is 1,000,000 giving a 2mm space of containment. On that note, however, would not it be 8mm? I know, that's 4 questions,and a fifth to check the mathematics, but those are my queries. The doctors deleted all our conversations in other locations, it seems he is the moderator of all those talk pages. (Crlinformative (talk) 04:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC))

It might help to look at a simpler conversion. Let's figure out how many cubic millimeters fit in a cubic centimeter. A 2D diagram may help:

m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m 
m m m m m m m m m m 
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m
m m m m m m m m m m

Here we have 10 millimeters, each represented by an m, in each direction. If you count them, you will see there are 10×10 = 100, that's 1cm=100mm. If we add third dimension, we get 10×10×10 = 1000, so 1cm=1000 mm. Does that help ? StuRat (talk) 04:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

I am trying to understand the difference between spherical calculation and cuboidal in reference to "mathematical dilemma". I apologize I accidentally erased the math when trying to copy it and the. Didn't have it saved when I reposted what I had deleted. I will make the correction above. Also, if the container is 2mm x 2mm x 2mm would not that be 8mm instead of 2mm?

Yes, and that should be written as (2mm) = 8mm. Unfortunately, many forget the parens, causing no end of confusion. StuRat (talk) 05:12, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, this all helps. I will have to try other methods them to do rove that humans are born with 1,000,000 primordial follicles, or that an embryo contains 4 to 7,000,000 of them. The only reference they have is books reporting it with no actual data to support the claims, that I have found. Thank you for your time. (Crlinformative (talk) 06:20, 31 March 2016 (UTC))

Reference desk

Hi Stu. I see here yet again you were the first to respond, and included no references. I can't speak for the others, but one reason I give you a hard time for no refs is that so often you post your unrefereced responses within minutes, before anyone else even has a chance to type up a better, referenced reply. I can't make you find and post refs. I can't make you stop posting unreferenced material. But I suggest that you'd get me (and maybe Jayron and others) off your back if you at least refrain from posting unreferenced replies until a few other people have had the chance to post their referenced replies. Just something to consider. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish. (Lions are social animals, tigers are not, social animals require a higher level of social intelligence.) And I don't see your point about not wanting me to respond quickly. You can add all the referenced answers you want, before or after I give mine. It's not a race. StuRat (talk) 00:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish. - that misses the point exquisitely, Stu. Users come to the Reference Desk, wanting - you guessed it - references. At least, that is the assumption we work under. They don't want the opinion of some anonymous jerk on the internet. If you believe a claim can be referenced, it's surely up to you to provide such a reference, not to leave it up to others. That's the lazy person's way, and it creates more trouble than it's worth. It's not that the claims you make are incorrect - not necessarily, anyway. It's that claims by themselves, with no supporting references, are worthless in the context of a Reference Desk. There's a reason it's not called the Opinions Desk, or the Easily-Checked Claims Desk. -- Jack of Oz 00:14, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I've had this conversation already way too many times, and already stated that I have no intention of providing references for things which need no reference. If somebody genuinely doubts something I said, or if they want to see the source for some other reason, then I will be glad to help (as I just did at that very Q when somebody wanted a source on my unusual claim that tigers avoid white cloth, even going so far as to die as a result). I'm sure you don't provide refs for absolutely everything you say, either. But then there are people like Jayron who seem to ask for refs for the most obvious things imaginable, just as a sadistic way to make me waste my time. And let's not start a debate here, either, I've told you my position, there's no point in discussing it indefinitely, so just let it go. StuRat (talk) 00:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, fine. It's not a race, but replies higher up are read first, and get more attention. And often you say some total wrong bullshit that I then have to spend time correcting. Whatever, you gotta do you, even if that means shooting of your mouth and drawing criticism from many different users at many different times. Just consider that the common and repeated comments you get indicate that you are functioning outside of our community norms. Even you admit it's happened "too many times". It's not just me. It's not just Jayron. It's not just Jack. It's very many of us, that have told you, in sometimes polite ways and sometimes snidely, that you do not provide the right amount of references. Nobody is saying you have to reference 100% of everything. Nobody is saying that they themselves have never ever posted something without reference. And yet still, you get these frequent complaints, while most of us don't. The common denominator here is you. So you can spin it any way you like, and you can do whatever you like. But if you continue to act outside our norms for acceptable behavior, then you have to accept that some people will criticize you for it, more or less often, more or less politely. After so many polite suggestions of mine go unheeded, please forgive me if I may seem a bit snide or impolite on this matter in the future. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:11, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

When Jack said "If you believe a claim can be referenced, it's surely up to you to provide such a reference, not to leave it up to others", it sure sounds like he expects 100% of claims to be referenced. And I am far from the only victim of incivility at the Ref Desk. Bugs, for example, is always insulting anon IP users. Others insult anyone who didn't find their answer in a Google search, doesn't write English properly, etc. The constant reminders to keep incivility off the Ref Desk seem to have gone unheeded. And now Jayron has resorted to outright lies. I seem to be his favorite scapegoat at the moment, but he has been incivil to many others in the past. StuRat (talk) 21:53, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

No, I wasn't meaning that. Of course there are times when a statement can be made and no reference is required. We can all be reasonable about this. But you often go into a quite detailed answer in point form, giving various reasons why you believe so-and-so is the case. Typically, these posts of yours will contain not even a link to a WP article, let alone any external cite. I know you'll now track down a counterexample, but I'm talking typically, generally, usually. A consistent pattern. A StuRat trademark. If I see a new post that's a longish list of dot points with very few or no links, I know it's from you before I've even seen the signature. I know it's an exposition of your opinions. Unless it's a subject I'm interested in at that time, I tend to skip over your posts unread. It mightn't bother you that not everybody reads all your posts, but that's not the issue. (Similarly, when I see a huge block of text with no paragraphs, I know it's from User:Nil Einne. Because it's unreadable, I skip right over it, and he's wasted his time, at least as far as I'm concerned. I've told him more than once that he's the king of TL:DR, but that doesn't seem to cut much ice. But at least he does provide some refs in amongst the unreadable verbiage, so we can't fault him on that score.)

You recently asked for some references to support someone else's claim, and you were given half a dozen in no time flat (Humanities: Hillary Clinton and Benghazi). But when we ask you to provide references for your claims, we're told: There's no claim there that you couldn't find a reference for, if you wish. If you wish!! Do you see the mismatch here, Stu? It's always someone else doing the work of tracking down references, while you're content to just make claims, opinions and assertions. You refuse to back up your own claims, but imperiously ask others to back up theirs. You've accused me of being unfair to you in the past. Well, first remove the log in your own eye, mate. -- Jack of Oz 23:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The difference is I don't ask people to provide refs just to be annoying, but only when I genuinely want to see the refs myself or question whether a claim is true. When people ask for refs for that reason, I am happy to comply, as I already told you (and provided an example) in my previous response. When they are trying to intentionally waste my time, I don't take the bait.

Now you've fallen into your old pattern of repeating the same argument I've already replied to, indefinitely (like how you keep bringing up your grudge about apostrophes). Just learn to let things go. StuRat (talk) 00:39, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I only raised that apostrophe thing because you told another user how they "should" spell something, while our efforts to tell you how you "should" spell its go unheeded. Again, it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do". I just wanted to highlight the hypocrisy that often seems to be your stock in trade. I don't like using words like that, particularly with people I have regular and usually positive dealings with, but your actions have a way of attracting such criticism. -- Jack of Oz 01:11, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

You know, you are great at largely remaining civil, and for that reason I do cut you a little slack. But not a free pass. Check out my talk page archive for some rather nice things I said about you even when you were spouting bs at the time. And you know what? I have repeatedly criticized Bugs for being uncivil, and not just to IPs! I've also told TRM to not be so bitter and mean at the talk page. I've also told Nimur to be less gruff and offputting at times. So there's no way in hell I'm singling you out, and I am being civil, too. On the other end, I've been criticized too. I think twice in my tenure here. Once was early on, when I mentioned a folk remedy and someone removed it as medical advice. The other was when a user told me I was getting to heated/involved in a thread, and maybe I should step away from WP for a few days. Both suggestions were annoying in the moment, but actually good ideas in the long run. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

edit

I edited some text of yours that used to be on the talk page; hope you don't mind. —Steve Summit (talk) 21:39, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, that fits the new location better. StuRat (talk) 22:26, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Something you deserve i.e. owed. Regards. Apostle (talk) 09:58, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks ! For anything in particular ? StuRat (talk) 14:08, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

For being the smartest guy in WP. For always helping out me and others. For being a convict (not providing references to your statements cause you are just too smart). And so on... -- Apostle (talk) 18:34, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 May 24#Price of a bottle of Coca-Cola in ~1916

I remembered that you mentioned about 2 L (70 imp fl oz; 68 US fl oz) of pop costing $1.10 and today I just came across this. Here a 355 ml (12.5 imp fl oz; 12.0 US fl oz) costs about $2.50 and over $3 if you buy it at the convenience store. A 591 ml (20.8 imp fl oz; 20.0 US fl oz) bottle costs over $6. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 01:19, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, there are plenty of stores willing to charge far more. My price is what you find on a 2 litre bottle sold at a normal (not a luxury store like Whole Foods) grocery store, on sale (which is pretty much every other week). StuRat (talk) 15:21, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Narner

Hi Stu, why did you delete my answer on the language ref desk? Rojomoke (talk) 21:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Very sorry. I didn't mean to do that, I was just trying to add to my answer. I got an edit conflict, and tried to resolve it, but I guess I messed up. StuRat (talk) 22:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

13 Colonioes

StuRat, you should have linked to History of Louisiana, not Louisiana Territory ( You'll be bathing in the anachronisms ). Cheers! --Askedonty (talk) 16:34, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I switched to Louisiana (New France), which seems the most appropo. StuRat (talk) 16:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Ref desk behaviour

This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Proposed sanctions against StuRat". Thank you.

Stu, this is entirely unacceptable. I won't repeat what others have been saying repeatedly over the years, but I think the time has come to make this official. I'm sure you'll get a fair hearing. Tevildo (talk) 18:16, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Talkback (WP:RD/S)

Hello, StuRat. You have new messages at Sagittarian Milky Way's talk page.
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Note

That user monkey-man-something was likely telegraphing that he's the same guy who asked "Black People like monkeys!?!?" a day or two prior. The reason he would have created a user ID was so he could spell out "Jews" instead of having to invent a phonetic equivalent. As you may have seen, that monkey is easy to smoke out. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:48, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

WP:AN

There's a discussion at WP:AN you may be interested in. --Jayron32 14:34, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Which discussion is that ? StuRat (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

At the bottom. --Jayron32 14:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• Your input is requested there, StuRat. Tiderolls 14:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Gb / GB / GiB

Stu, when you warned Iapetus about using Gb: "you should use "GB" for gigabytes, as "Gb" is sometimes used for gigabits" perhaps you ought to have also mentioned that memory is measured in GiB, not GB. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

I haven't really seen that used much, have you ? StuRat (talk) 15:30, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Every day. Most open source (read GNU/Linux + derivatives) use it consistently. The only time the non-standard Giga = 2^30 is used is in legacy applications where it is retained for compatibility. The standard system utilites changed from using blocks to KiB, MiB and GiB a decade or more ago. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

I get about 20x as many Ghits for MB as MiB. StuRat (talk) 16:23, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Areal

Thanks for posting this question. I had the same thought when I started reading it in the notices that I was getting on my phone a few months back. It was new to me then. †Dismas†| 16:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 22:27, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Ref Desk behavior

Look, I can try to be more professional when I ask for citations, but this is getting a bit ridiculous. It's not just me, it's not me, it's not just Tevildo, it's not just SpinningSpark, it's not just Jayron. When literally dozens of people tell you that you need to provide references, consider that it might be that they are right, and not that we are just all out to get you. I apologize for my sarcastic comment about wikipedia the other day. I also removed it. I will not apologize for calling out your offensive joke. That shit is offensive, and again, it's not just me who thinks so. I got thanked three times over that thread, and also supporting comments from two other users in thread. Now, maybe we are all overly sensitive, but that doesn't change the fact that this is not a joke desk. I tolerate your jokes when they are merely lame, I will not tolerate them when they are offensive to me and many users in our community. Note that I didn't simply delete the joke, as I'd have every right to. Nor did I box up the joke, which I'd have every right too. I merely wanted everyone to voice my opinion on your joke. If you are allowed to make offensive jokes, then I'm allowed to call them offensive. It's pretty simple, isn't it?

I'm happy to let this drop here. But if you persist in fighting for your right to make offensive jokes without anyone telling you they are offensive, this will turn into a huge shitshow on the talk page, and you're going to come out looking like a classless cad. I don't think you're a bad guy, and I don't think you're homophobic. But your comment certainly looks that way, akin to santorum equating gay marriage to zoophilia. So honestly and truly, I suggest there's better hills to die on. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

October 2016

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Query re belief persistence

Nobody else said anything about your argument at Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Science#Belief_perseverance being wrong so I finally did. I'm interested - do you actually feel that you were right in saying that part 1 was all that was wrong? Perhaps other people think the same as you. Dmcq (talk) 14:35, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, if the original premise is correct, then the rest follows logically. The problem is with the unconditional acceptance of the original premise. This is rather similar to the classic Q: "A fair coin with a 50% independent chance of landing heads or tails each time is flipped 1000 times, and every time it lands heads up. What is the probability of that ?". The probability, if one accepts the premise, is 1/2. But, as a practical matter, this means it will never happen, so our original premise must be incorrect. But if you do accept the original premise, unconditionally, then you must accept the results. StuRat (talk) 15:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The problem I saw was with part 3 where if somebody else says the coin was actually fair then coming to the conclusion they must be biased seemed okay - but then coming to the conclusion it must be even less likely to be fair than one originally thought is I bbelieve a real bad step without further information. I think it is quite interesting that you think that part 3 follows okay. Dmcq (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Let's modify the scenario a bit. The person who told you it is a fair coin is somebody you absolutely trust, and the person who told you they flipped it 1000 times in a row and it always came up heads is somebody you don't know. In that case, wouldn't you assume the 2nd person is the liar, and not only about this, but potentially about everything else ? StuRat (talk) 17:04, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes I would think there was a high probability of the person who told me they flipped the coin 1000 times and it came up heads every time being a liar. However it would not make me trust my friend more and in fact I would consider there to be a possibility of them being wrong even though I would normally absolutely trust them. Dmcq (talk) 19:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

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Diabetes

See here. Count Iblis (talk) 02:49, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't disagree with much they said, except that at one point the balding man said that saturated fats were the problem, then they seemed to be saying we should avoid all fats, later. That's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". Unsaturated, plant-based fats are absolutely essential to a healthy diet. Also, two issues they didn't address have to do with carb overload. That is, even if your body is working normally and the blood sugar is getting into the cells, you can still have a problem if sugar is going into the blood stream faster than it is going out. The reasons the glucose goes up so fast now are high refined carb meals (like white flour/white rice and lots of sugar) with little fiber to slow the digestion process. They looked at the Asian diet, high in rice, but it also has lots of veggies for fiber, and healthy vegetable oils. It's when you remove the veggies and just have the white flour and sugar, as in a cake, that the problem occurs. As far as beef being unhealthy, I agree, because of the saturated fats. Eat fish and eggs for your protein instead.

Also, there may be a more general problem with grains in that they cause inflammation. This is a natural defense mechanisms on the inside of the grains, as they, unlike berries, aren't meant to be digested (berries are meant to be digested, all except the seeds, to propagate the species). The hard husk is another such defense. We only recently (in evolutionary terms), learned how to grind off the hard shell to eat the insides, so haven't yet adapted to the chemical defenses inside. StuRat (talk) 18:53, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Deleting someone else's comments?

Can you explain what was wrong with my answer here that caused you to delete it? If it was a mistake, could you correct it then? --Jayron32 19:15, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, it was a Misplaced Pages bug. I've seen this occasionally with edit conflicts. I re-added your comment. StuRat (talk) 19:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

No troubles. It happens from time to time. Thanks for fixing it. --Jayron32 19:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Mushrooms

If you want to pursue this kind of thing then take it to ANI. I'm sick of the Ref Desk being such a safe harbour for users who aren't improving the project, in fact actively doing the opposite. See you there. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

"Doesn't improve the project" is not a reason for deletion. Note that Jayron, an Admin, thought it was fine and posted a response. I've had endless arguments with him, but on this we agree. StuRat (talk) 21:59, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

If you want to promote posts that provide a how-to guide on how to take drugs which can make people very sick, then that's your call. I don't believe it belongs in the project. Please feel free to take this matter to ANI where I will make sure this kind of garbage which the Ref Desks currently actively enable is discussed in a much wider forum; perhaps we can finally get rid of the Ref Desks altogether if this is the kind of nonsense that's being peddled there. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Misc ref desk

That one IP is spouting the extreme-right line of "thought" on these subjects, basically trying to foment arguments. It's probably time to semi this page, except WP:RFPP seems not to have a place for it now. He also accuses me of 3RR violation, when he's also guilty of it, just under more than one IP. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 04:00, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Just ignore it please. StuRat (talk) 04:17, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I've concluded it was all IP trolling, and have boxed it up. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 05:29, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Not useful

Hi StuRat,

May I suggest that in the future you restrain yourself from posts like this one? You have given a uselessly vague pointer to a person who already provided in their post a much more precise one, and your other thoughts are miles from anything that could reasonably be called "a bidding strategy."

Thanks, JBL (talk) 14:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I disagree. The whole point of the Q is to determine the number of bidders, and I gave a strategy to do so. StuRat (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

You are wrong on both counts, and obviously so. "You should be able to estimate ..." isn't a strategy; it's not even an idea. Please, do not answer questions if you have nothing useful to say. --JBL (talk) 17:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Please stop with the insults and let's have an actual conversation about the answer. If there are 5 bids on the first item up for auction, or 5000, you really don't see that difference as an indication of how many total bids there will be on all the auctions ? StuRat (talk) 17:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

My comments are criticisms, not insults. Indeed, it is true that 5000 > 5, but this trivial observation does not constitute a strategy for anything. --JBL (talk) 21:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I've since added more. It now lists a precise way to estimate the payout. BTW, the way to state your case without being insulting is: "I believe the OP was looking for a specific bidding strategy, and your reply appears to lack such info". Avoid words like "useless". StuRat (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Your advice now amounts to a strategy, with no evidence to suggest that it is a good one. And a link to the article game theory for a person asking for a strategy for a particular style of auction is indeed completely useless, regardless of whether it is polite to say so. --JBL (talk) 03:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

No it's not. The problem is that if he waits to see how many people bid on the early auctions, rather than bidding, to gauge what the overall response will be, others may do the same, making these observations less useful than they otherwise would be. This is an aspect of game theory, having to consider what others are thinking about what others are thinking, etc. And disagreeing with someone is never cause to be impolite. That's the Donald Trump strategy, not how civilized people behave. One way to determine if you are being needlessly rude is to think about if you would say something like that to someone in person. If not, then it's not appropriate online, either. Meanwhile, I've seen no contribution from you, making your criticism of my proposed strategy even more puzzling. StuRat (talk) 04:14, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

By precisely the same reasoning, it would have been very helpful to include a link to the article mathematics because mathematical reasoning will be involved in giving a good answer to the question. Frankly, you should be embarrassed to make this argument. I have not made a contribution on the thread because, unlike you, I have the sense not to make comments on the reference desk if I do not have anything useful to say. (Note that specialized knowledge is not required to tell that your initial post has no value whatsoever.) --JBL (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes it did have value. It contained a portion of a strategy, which could then be expanded by others (as it was, it was expanded by me), to provide a complete strategy. Each answer does not need to be comprehensive. Giving part of the solution is better than offering nothing whatsoever, as you have done. And I see you continue to be rude. What would it harm, if you behaved politely here ? And what does it help, to continue to act rudely ? StuRat (talk) 04:39, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Your initial post has three sentences. The first one is meaningless hand-waving; it has no content at all, and is certainly not a strategy or part of a strategy. The second sentence is a useless pointer. And the third sentence is irrelevant rambling. It is literally true that it was not better than nothing: anyone who read your first post wasted 5 seconds of their life and learned nothing. (Your follow-up on its own is still a bad answer but at least could conceivably be related to a good answer, namely, a strategy together with a theorem demonstrating (or at least a heuristic suggesting) that the strategy has positive expected value.) --JBL (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

First sentence: "You should be able to estimate the number of total bidders there will be by the number who bid on earlier auctions." This is literally taking a sample and using it to predict the nature of the population, similar to using exit polls to predict the election results. This is a well-established statistical method.

2nd and 3rd sentences: "However, we get into game theory here, in that others may also take a wait-and-see approach to gauge the amount of bidders, too. So, it could end up like an Ebay auction, where it's pointless to bid until the last few seconds, as doing so gives away too much info." This is pointing out a limitation of the sample method here, if others also avoid early bids until they can take their own samples. My second post then gave a method for dealing with this limitation, by assuming that the ratio of early bidders to total bidders will remain the same from year to year. Together they are a complete method for predicting the total number of bidders, and hence payout, using established mathematical and statistical methods. Your complaints are totally baseless. StuRat (talk) 17:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

You have not responded to my statement that a reply need not be a complete solution, as even a step in the right direction is helpful. You also have not said you will attempt to be move civil in your responses. StuRat (talk) 17:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

The sentence "You should be able to estimate ..." has no content whatsoever. Maybe you intended to say something else that does have content, but if so, you failed. The other sentences also have no conceivable value in answering the question asked. The whole post is completely worthless and should never have been made. In the future, please do not make posts on the math reference desk unless they have some useful content. Thanks. --JBL (talk) 17:51, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

You statements are patently false, as I've proven. If you are unwilling to engage in a civil discussion, stay off my talk page. Calling me an ass in NOT civil discussion: . StuRat (talk) 17:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

The Rambling Man

An endless stream of vitriol emanates from TRM towards a good portion of the editors and Admins he interacts with, often with no apparent cause other than TRM disagreeing with them on some matter. We don't need people here who behave like that. He was apparently forced to resign as Admin for such behavior, and now he got a 1 month block, but he refuses to change. My advice to everyone is to refuse to engage with him. He seems to feed off the trouble he can cause, and denying him this pleasure may get him to leave. StuRat (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Userpage template rename

User:StuRat has {{RefDesk}}, a template that is not related to, but whose name is confusingly simiar to, {{Refdesk}}. The one you have is now a redirect to {{RefDesk help icon}} to avoid that confusion. Could you update your userpage so that we can scrap that old redirect altogether? Thanks, DMacks (talk) 18:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Done. StuRat (talk) 06:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

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Trout

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

You've successfully defended your right to make wild speculations on the ref desk over the years and I'm resigned to it. However, wildly speculating about eye safety earns you a trout.--Wikimedes (talk) 06:07, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

1) You can't put the trout in the title, it messes up the heading. I fixed it.

2) I assume that you, along with many others, misread the Q as "What eye protection do I need to protect me from a high-powered cutting laser directed at my eye". This is not the Q. It's about whether ANY protection at all is needed against the REFLECTED light from a low-powered SIGHTING laser. So, the level of protection needed, if any, is quite minimal. StuRat (talk) 21:25, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

You are headed over the line of "no medical advice". Stop now so you don't get blocked. DMacks (talk) 21:58, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

This has absolutely nothing to do with medical advice. You don't ask doctors which safety goggles to use. StuRat (talk) 22:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Agreed it is not medical advice. Also, although following the advice could get someone into trouble for violating OSHA regulations, it's not legal advice either. Is there actually a guideline that covers such cases?, or is advice (as an extreme example) to go out and point a loaded gun at someone allowable by RefDesk guidelines?--Wikimedes (talk) 01:10, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

You still seem to be missing that we are talking about the reflection from a low-powered sighting laser, not a direct hit from a high-powered laser. Using your gun analogy, that would be like giving advice that somebody point a loaded paint gun at somebody else. StuRat (talk) 02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

I had just come to remove the extreme example; I figured it would 1) only inflame things further, and 2) derail the question with protestations that it is in fact a much more extreme example. Since the latter has already occurred I'll strike it rather than remove it. I understand that this is about reflection from a low-powered sighting laser.

The question remains: Is there a RefDesk guideline that addresses giving advice that is potentially medically and legally harmful, but is neither medical nor legal advice. (The question about whether there is such a guideline is actually directed at User:DMacks, though of course anyone is welcome to respond.)--Wikimedes (talk) 02:32, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

That's a slippery slope. For example, offering the standard advice to "drink lots of water" could get a link to water toxicity and somebody arguing that this is dangerous medical advice and the user who said it should be blocked. We all need to just learn to tolerate statements we disagree with, rather than trying to block the editor. If you disagree, just state why, give any sources to support your position, and leave it at that. No need for any threats. StuRat (talk) 02:41, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Advice about what "is safe", without cite, is a problem. You know many other editors think almost everything you do is a problem, and I'm not going in that direction, merely that one particular type of answer is a more of a problem than just their concerns about "uncited and often wrong". You're welcome to ignore this concern, as you seem to do in general, but the wider admin group might not be so forgiving. DMacks (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this thread had anything to do with it, but thank you for your efforts here .--Wikimedes (talk) 07:05, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd forgotten all about this thread. I do take eye safety (and all safety) seriously, as I did at this Q. StuRat (talk) 16:26, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

sperm

We don't give financial advice, which includes starting a business. You seem to think that my having enforced this rule invalidates it, but any editor can enforce WP:DISCLAIMER. See also {{WP:3RR]] since that's where this goes next. μηδείς (talk) 21:52, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

1) This Q is on how much sperm a man produces, and no business advice was requested.

2) You are to list the reason for any closure directly in the title bar of the hat.

3) You are to sign the closure in the same place. StuRat (talk) 22:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• StuRat, if you do not revert yourself, I'm going to block you for 3RR and edit warring. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• I will revert it, but note it is being discussed on the Ref Desk Talk page, as this was an inappropriate block hat. StuRat (talk) 22:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• • You mean inappropriate hat, right? There hasn't been a block. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• Yes, hat. StuRat (talk) 22:26, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Good call to self-revert, considering that you were on your fifth, by my count. Best to keep track so you don’t accidentally violate 3RR. By the way, you may wish to give this a read: H:LIST#Common mistakes. In short, if the line starts with a *, start the next line with a *. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 22:42, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

If everyone just uses n colons followed by one asterisk, then it doesn't matter what the next person does, the first post still looks right. Also, your count isn't right, as the first few were reverts of the deletion of my sperm bank link, not the hat. StuRat (talk) 23:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

The way your browser renders the styling may look right, but what actually results is a mess of unrelated nested lists. You can see this if you view the resulting page’s HTML source code (look for <dl>/<dd> and <ul>/<li>), or if you access the page in a number of other ways (as some users have no choice but to do). A simple solution is to copy the markup (colons, asterisks, or any combination) from the comment you’re replying to, paste it immediately under that line (i.e. no blank line between), and then add to the end of that. Or just stick with only colons or only asterisks in a given thread.

3RR relates to the number of reverts to a whole page, not individual repeated reverts. If I reverted something at the top of the page once, something at the bottom three times, and something in the middle twice, that would make six reverts to the page, and I could expect to be blocked for it. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 23:27, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

That doesn't make much sense. So if I find 3 obvious instances of vandalism in an article, and revert all 3, I get blocked ? StuRat (talk) 00:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Reverting vandalism is considered an exception, per WP:3RR. I highly suggest reviewing that page. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 12:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Tojo

Dear StuRat, my self-deprecating sense of humor has evidently gone over your head. The edit you objected to so much referred to a mistake by myself, not you-note the smiley face next to the remark about the "ignorant editor", which is my way of saying I was talking about myself, which is something that you have completely missed. I was making fun of myself, not attacking you. The sentence I was correcting what was written by myself, which is something that you could have easily noticed if you had taken the time to look at the mistake I was correcting. You noticed my notice my edit, but somehow you assumed it was about you, rather noticing I was talking about myself. Instead, you just fly off the handle and accuse me of insulting you, which I was most certainly not. I will not apologize as the edit you are complaining about had utterly nothing to do with you, but I am sincerely sorry that your feelings were hurt. Note also that I thanked for your work on the Tojo article, which is inconsistent with your utterly baseless claims that I have something against you, which I assure you that I do not.

As for your remark about "Western racism", I have no idea what grounds, if any do this accusation on. If you really think that General Tojo forced by the Americans against his will to bomb Pearl Harbour and that he was an Pan-Asian idealist fighting to end white supremacy in Asia, a thesis that is extremely popular in Japan and in India, then you are mistaken. I am not seeking to put words in your mouth, but I suspect that is what you mean by "Western racism". If you really want to understand Japan’s war aims, you need to need the concept of “place”, namely that all of the Asian peoples were just one big happy family with each Asian people occupying its rightful “place” in the family. In this concept, the Japanese were at the head of the family, and of the others had to accept their “place” below Japan. The former Emperor of China, Puyi initially believed in all this Pan-Asian talk when he became the Emperor of Manchukuo, but soon learned that it was his “place” as a Chinese man to be a “good slave” to the Emperor of Japan; as a “good slave” he had to bow down and happily lick the boots of the Showa Emperor because that was his “place”. The story of Puyi in nutshell captures what the Japanese were trying to do in Asia. Furthermore, I do not understand how you can possibly imply that my work on the Tojo article is due to “Western racism”. I was the one who brought in a mention of Tojo’s role in with the “comfort women”, of whom 80% were Korean, and the rest were Chinese, Filipino, etc. The young women taken away to the “comfort women” corps were subjected to quite horrific physical and sexual abuse. The reader needs to know what the “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere” meant in practice, to know this was the sort of world that General Tojo was fighting for. How is this “Western racism”? Please do explain? If the Japanese had taken India, they would done the same thing in India that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, Burma, Vietnam, Malaya, and everywhere else they went. I am no apologist for the British empire; read the section on the Niall Ferguson (who is an apologist for the British empire) article on the British empire, which is almost all my work. Having said that much, if the Japanese had taken India, things would had gotten much worse, which is something that appears to completely elude much of contemporary Indian public opinion who still think the wrong side won World War II. Given that what the Japanese did in China is all very well established, just why so many Indians, even today, regret that the Japanese never got the chance to do the same thing in India is a mystery. If the Japanese had conquered India, the "independence" that India would had gained would been the same as the "Empire of Manchukuo", the sham state that was really a Japanese colony. The British left India; the Japanese would not had be pushed out with non-violence as the British were, which is a very simple point that many Indians cannot grasp-perhaps deep down they know their "place" was to be "good slaves" to the Emperor.

No, the article does not reflect “Western racism”. If Tojo comes across as an unattractive character, that because he was. Tojo was a stupid, fanatical and vicious man who caught up in all the mindless militarism of bushido, which glories war above all else. Tojo was a moron who actually believed the Emperor of Japan was a god, even though common sense should had dictated otherwise. Anybody with the slightest modicum of intelligence could see the Emperor was not a god, so that shows just how truly dumb Tojo really was. I have nothing against the Japanese people, but I do understand Japan, and bushido leaves me cold. The same armistice terms that the Japanese rejected in July 1944 were the same ones they accepted in August 1945; by keeping the war going on for an extra 13 months resulted in their cities being bombed to the ground; millions of civilians killed in Japan, China, Vietnam and elsewhere; and hundreds of thousands of servicemen killed and wounded on both sides, but at least they upheld their values of bushido. I ask you; was that a smart thing to do? The whole idea of getting yourself killed in a kamikaze attack because to die for the Emperor is the most beautiful world does not appeal to me. The Emperor was not a god, the war was lost, and the men of the kamikaze corps killed themselves and the American sailors for nothing. Indeed, strangely enough, despite all the glorification of war and death that went on in Japanese schools, the Emperor was not keen on dying-the Emperor wanted others to die for him, but he would never risk his own life. The Ayatollah Khomeini did the same thing in the Iran-Iraq war, having teenage boys run across minefields because to get yourself killed for Allah is the most glorious thing in the world and Allah would reward those who "martyr" themselves with 72 lush virgins to have sex for all time in the afterlife ; strangely enough the Ayatollah who was fanatical about wanting others to die for Allah, but never himself. This is not racism as you trying to imply; it seems sad that so Japanese men wasted their lives for nothing, dying for the lie that the Emperor was a living god, when he was not, just as the same way that so many Iranian boys died in suicidal attacks to please a stupid, bigoted man like the Ayatollah Khomeini, who was so dumb that he actually believed the world was flat. Having said that much, Tojo was a follower, not a leader, and it was the Emperor who was the one who was really in charge. After the war, the Americas decided to rule Japan though the Emperor, so they needed one especially evil figure for whom everything that went wrong could be blamed. Tojo was a bad man, but his malevolence has been exaggerated. The idea that Tojo was single-handily responsible for everything that went wrong is a post-war myth created by the Americans to justify not trying the Emperor for war crimes as he should have had been. The Emperor should had been hanged for war crimes, not allowed to reign on until his death in 1989, and absurdly to be presented as a pro-Western "moderate" opposed to Tojo(!). Returning to the main point, I am sorry that your feelings were hurt; I was only mocking myself and I meant no malice to you at all. I was not insulting you, and only engaging in my sense of humor. Good day and take care.--A.S. Brown (talk) 05:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

1) Wow, can I buy you a paragraph break (or 10) ?

2) I did miss that you were talking about your own edits. However, I thought you were talking about the edits of others, which did use rather poor English, not mine.

3) The racism I mentioned in the article was one of Tojo's justifications for war. If you had insulted others for not writing proper English, and this was because they were not native English speakers, then yes, this would be racism too. But you didn't.

4) As for the India stuff, I assume you mean Bose ? I was unaware that there is a strong current feeling in India that things would have been better, had Bose won control of India. Do you have any links on this ? Perhaps they are leftists who think India would be better off communist ?

5) Something that has always interested me is that Japan seemed to be unaware that they would be unable to defeat the US, despite having no plan to invade the US mainland. A simple analysis should have shown that US industrial capacity, when committed to war, would vastly outstrip their own. At best, they might have hoped to destroy the Panama Canal to slow the movement of US warships to the Pacific, occupy the Hawaiian Islands, and destroy the shipyards on the US West Coast. However, they didn't have a plan to even do this much. How they hoped to win when all they did was give the US a bloody nose at Pearl Harbor is a mystery to me (although if they managed to take out all the US aircraft carriers, they might have bought themselves another year or so, but then atomic weapons would have been available for tactical use, such as against Iwo Jima, but of course Japan knew nothing about this). As it was, destroying battleships may have allowed the US to rely more on the valuable carriers rather than relying on battleships and the outdated tactics they represented.

6) Do you have any insight into why Japan thought it could win, despite being heavily committed in China and elsewhere, and being vastly surpassed by US population and industrial capacity ? All I can think of is if they assumed the US would focus on Europe, but the Pearl Harbor attack would seem to make Japan more of an enemy to the US. Was there a vast misunderstanding of US psychology, thinking that Pearl Harbor would make the US want to give up, rather than fight ? The very racism that Tojo observed in the US would lead the US to think that the Japanese were inferior and would be easily defeated. They also seem to be unaware that a threat from an external enemy tends to draw people closer, as in the case of the ancient Greek city-states which fought among themselves, but then united when invaded by Persia.

7) There was some mention that the Japanese thought that their eagerness to die in battle would give them the edge, but this fails to account for the loss of personnel, experience, skills, information and possibly weapons and equipment that all those deaths would entail. The concept of retreating when about to be defeated and living to fight another day seems to have eluded them. ISIS has the same problem currently, losing their most devoted soldiers to suicide bombings. StuRat (talk) 11:57, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Dear StuRat

Good, I accept that the misunderstandings have been cleared up. In the spirit of friendly co-operation that supposed to characterize the project, I am going to let bygones be bygones. It is not gentlemanly to make fun anyone for their English, and I would never do that-the only person I mock is myself because I don't take myself too seriously.

Yes, you are correct that I talking about Bose, who is a major national hero in India. Note that there are Bollywood films with Bose as a hero than there of Gandhi. I do suspect that Bose's emphasis on violence as the best solution to any problem does appeal to a certain type of Indian man, much more than does Gandhi's pacifism. The Indians who stopped the Japanese invasion of India at Kohmia and Imphal are seen in modern India as the villains, and the Indian National Army who are remembered as the heroes. It really cuts across the party lines; there are leftists who see Bose as hero fighting the oppressed masses of India (note that Bose died on his way to Moscow in 1945), but also many on the Hindu right who see Bose as a hero. Even more objectionably, quite a few Indians today see Hitler as a hero. Bal Thackeray, a major Indian politician who appropriately for cartoonist was a caricature of a Hindu chauvinist brought to life and the founder of the Shiv Sena party was most outspoken in his admiration of Hitler, whom he often praised as a role model for young Indian men. It doesn't make any sense. Hitler was a white supremacist who was quite hostile to Indians in Mein Kampf, praised the British empire for keeping millions of non-white people down, and his favorite film was The Lives of a Bengal Lancer; it seems that Hitler's many Hindu chauvinist fans today misunderstand what he meant when praised the Aryans (a term meaning the "noble ones" in Sanskrit taken from the Hindu sacred texts), note that the swastika is an ancient Hindu symbol for good luck and think that any enemy of Britain must a friend of India. Check out this link here: of a film poster showing Bose and Hitler as heroes today from 2004. Only in India can you put up a film poster of Bose and Hitler shaking hands, and present these guys as heroes. Off hand, I am sorry that I do not have links, but I assure that it is an odd feeling reading books by many Indian historians, who tended to portray the Axis as the good guys in World War II. Check the link here: Battle of Kohima and read the comments section, where many Indian YouTube editors, though not all, are openly pro-Bose and pro-Japanese. Personally, I do not understand these people. Even the video notes that the Japanese massacred a hospital full of wounded Indian soldiers (fighting for the British) in February 1944, and all these people can do is write how the Japanese were India's friends, fighting to free them from the British(!).

You are quite right about American industrial capacity by far outstripping Japanese industrial capacity. In 1941, the United States produced 600 million tons of steel while Japan produced 6 million. I would agree with you that the decision-makers in Japan were completely irrational. The plan, such as it was, was to win enough victories, and then when the Allies sued for peace, ask the Pope to mediate, who General Tojo believed for some reason was pro-Japanese. The decision-makers in Tokyo were expecting a repeat of the Russian-Japanese war; just inflict enough defeats on the enemy until they sue for peace. Depending upon the context, the Japanese called their enemies the Anglo-Saxons (when German and Italian diplomats were around) or the white devils (when no Axis diplomats were around). A big part of Japanese thinking, which getting back to the subject of racism, was that they were a hard people who did not fear death because to them to die for the Emperor was the most beautiful thing in the world and the Anglo-Saxons-cum-white devils were a soft people who did feared death. There is a scene from a Japanese film from 1943 dealing with the fall of Singapore, when a Japanese soldier arrives in the barracks of the British officers in Singapore, and sees a table covered with a tea pot and mugs, and kicks it over in disgust. The scene meant to the British were a soft people, too fond of drinking tea while the Japanese were a hard and tough people. I do remember reading an excerpt from the diary of a Japanese officer at the Battle of Hong Kong saying the Canadian soldiers he was fighting were very effeminate because the Canadians cried when they were wounded. Yes, this is not rational, but this what the thinking was in Japan at the time. As I pointed in the Tojo article, he was actually on the moderate end of this, in the sense that was aware of the need to increase industrial capacity by creating a totalitarian national defense state; his rivals in the Imperial Way fraction were more extreme than him in seeing spirit, the will to win as the only factor in war.

Again, I would agree with your points in 6. The assumption in Japan that the Americans were a soft people, afraid to die, and all you had to do was kill enough of them, and they would give up. That was the lesson the Japanese took from the war with Russia in 1904-05, and they expected history to repeat itself. Even then, they didn’t understand history very well. The war with Russia almost bankrupted Japan and by March 1905, the Japanese were winning, but they were running out of men. Anyhow, the revolution of 1905 and the economic exhaustion of Russia was just as important in making the Russian sue for peace as the Battle of Tsushima Straits were, aspects of the war that the Japanese forgot about. There is a further point that needs to be emphasized in that in bushido, all that really matters is that you keep your honor, and winning and losing is almost immaterial. There is a book called The Nobility of Failure by Ivan Morris, which I strongly recommend if you really want to understand the Japanese. Only with one of the chapters deal with World War II, but it is a really wonderful introduction to Japanese culture and history. The book deals with the cult of the heroic failure in Japan. What matters in Japan is you keep your moral sincerity intact at all costs, even at the price of your life, which explains why heroic failures are especially honored in Japan. The man who keeps his honor and principles, even at the cost of his life, is the man the Japanese really love. Only one chapter in Morris’s book, the one concerned with the Kamikaze corps, deals with World War II, so I really cannot use that book for the Tojo article. Anyhow, Morris makes it clear that in 1944-45 most of the guys who volunteered for the Kamikaze corps knew the war was lost, but it was felt better to keep their moral sincerity intact by dying for the Emperor by clashing their airplanes into American ships rather giving up a lost war. It is a mentality so different from the Western mentality, this glorification of death, even a pointless death, as the morally superior thing to do that it is hard to understand. Even Morris, who lived in Japan, was fluent in Japanese and knew their culture very well, finds it a little bizarre. My point is in this way of thinking it win or lose, it doesn’t matter, just as long as you die with your moral sincerity intact. Actually it is even better that you die with your moral sincerity intact in a losing cause because it shows the depth of your moral sincerity. I know that one are not supposed to engage in OR, which is why I have not done everything along these lines, but in understanding the decision for war in 1941, it is striking that Tojo keeps saying that we need to keep our honor intact, no matter what. In other words, you are perfectly correct that Japan was heavily involved in China and could not hope to outmatch industrial capacity, but I am not certain if was the main criterion in Tojo’s mind; one gets the impression that Tojo did not really care if Pearl Harbour caused a war that Japan was going to lose; all that mattered to him was Japan keep its moral sincerity intact, even at the cost of millions dead and the all of the cities of Japan going up in flames. Even if you really interested in the philosophical basis of Bushido I would strongly advise reading this link: Zen and the Art of Diving Bombing The Dark Side of the Tao. It is a little heavy-going and opinionated, but it covers a lot very well.

Again, on 7, I would agree with everything. I am not into promoting hatred against anybody, and there are many admirable aspects about the Japanese, but bushido is not one of them. Bushido, at least the version that Japanese schoolboys were brainwashed into from the Meiji Restoration onward really was a death cult. This emphasis upon that the most beautiful and noble thing to do in the world was to die for the Emperor certainly produced soldiers and sailors who fought without fear of death, but as you noted, it was counterproductive in the long run. Tojo himself was not the most fanatical about this; it is noteworthy that he finally agreed to abandon Guadalcanal and called off the invasion of India after Kohima and Imphal, but throughout World War Two, there are countless cases of the Japanese fighting long past any reasonable hope of victory, or committing suicide instead of trying to live another day. Even more sickening, and this is something I am planning on bringing in to the Tojo article is that Battle of Saipan, when the Japanese government told the Japanese colonists on that island that the Americans were white devils who were going to eat them and their children; so the colonists murdered their own children and killed themselves by jumping off the cliffs of Saipan. It is criminal for a government for tell such an outrageous lie to its own people to get them to kill their own children and themselves. There were of things wrong with the United States in those days like the treatment of black Americans; but at least they could behaved with more decency than that. Despite the markedly racist quality to American anti-Japanese propaganda, the Americans were appalled by mass suicides at Saipan, and at the Battle of Okinawa, the American Army had Japanese-speakers broadcast a message over loudspeakers along the lines saying we are not cannibals, so please don’t kill your children or yourselves. Returning to the main point, this is not rational. Again, it can be explained only in terms of a death cult mentality that sees the willingness to kill and/or be killed as the only really important factor in war. A death cult is by definition is not rational. I am choosing my words here carefully here. I have no sympathy with Islam is evil school of thinking. However, there are different ways of interpreting Islam, just like there are different ways of interpreting Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Unfortunately, one of the possible, though not only interpretation of Islam, is the death cult mentality. A Sunni group like ISIS detests a Shia fundamentalist like Khomeini, but they both promote a death cult interpretation of Islam; the former more so than the latter, but the differences are degree rather of kind. Both al-Qaeda and Islamic State both like to taunt the West with a message that they are going to win because you love life while we love death. A variation is that the West will lose because Westerners love Coca-coke while they love death. Again, I am not saying all of Islam is a death cult (which is certainly not the case), but certainly the Islam as interpreted by groups like al-Qaeda and IS are death cults. At least Khomeini only sent enthusiastic teenage boys who were promised 72 virgins in heaven on suicidal attacks against the Iraqi lines, while saving his more experienced troops. Having said that much, one often gets the impression that Khomeini did not care if a battle was lost or won, just as long as he got a lot of his own people killed, which is sick. What all these people have in common despite all their differences, was or is the belief that in war, it is the side with the strongest will that wins, the side that fears the death will lose, and that all there is to it. As you have correctly noted, it was counterproductive in losing skilled men. That is why the Japanese lost so men in the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot-they had lost so pilots earlier in the war that to replace them, training standards had to be drastically lowered, meaning a bunch of guys who barely knew how to fly a plane were sent into the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, which is why they were annihilated by the U.S Navy. Ultimately, the Japanese came up with the Kamikaze corps, where barely trained pilots were sent to crash their planes into American ships because that was the best they could do. All I can say if one is in grips of a death cult, none of this really matters because you know you are stronger because you love death while the other side loves life. The most important, and the perhaps the reassuring point here is these people are wrong. If anything, their death cult way of thinking ensures that they lose, which has got to be a good thing.

Sorry for getting off on a bad start, but thank you very much for your informative comments and interesting questions.--A.S. Brown (talk) 03:20, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I understand the individual death cult, but not when some Japanese applied it to the nation as a whole, apparently preferring that Japan be defeated rather than back down (there was even a faction which wanted to see Japan destroyed rather than surrender, following the atomic bomb drops). Didn't they understand that the nation being defeated would mean the end to training students in the Bushido code and therefore the end of Bushido itself ? So you get to the odd conclusion that belief in Bushido means they supported it's destruction.

Also, I see no evidence that there was ever an analysis of their chances of winning, losing, or achieving a draw, and the consequences of each outcome. It just seems bizarre to me that such a momentous decision with long-term consequences for their nation didn't merit a thoughtful discussion. StuRat (talk) 15:03, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

editing my reply at the Reference desks

Hi Sturat, with this change , you have changed the nature and intent of my edit and thereby changed the way others will perceive it. You make it look like I only meant to box up some of the comments in that subthread, when I intended to box them all up - in effect, you make it look like I agree with the comment you made when I do not. If you disagree with the hat, please undo the whole thing not part of it, and then discuss on talk page. Thanks. 184.151.231.149 (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I do disagree with your hatting my contribution, which was intended to help the OP improve their English, which is what they had asked about. The comments following mine should be hatted, though, as they are the typical hate-speech from Ref Desk regulars, and contribute absolute nothing to improving the OP's English. StuRat (talk) 17:37, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I have now done as you suggested, removed your hat, and put mine in (with my signature). Also, you deleted my reply to Jack of Oz when you undid my hat. Please try to avoid doing that. StuRat (talk) 17:44, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Musical Term query on Ents Ref desk

Re your recent question on the above, now archived: I can't suggest a term for what you describe, but I had a half-memory of a piece whose structure somewhat fitted it, which happened to be played on BBC Radio 4 this morning!

The piece was Borodin's tone poem In the Steppes of Central Asia.

Hope this is of interest. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.208.125 (talk) 21:48, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Barnstar for You!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thank you very much for all of your hard work at the Misplaced Pages Reference Desk, StuRat! Futurist110 (talk) 02:22, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! StuRat (talk) 02:23, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

No problem! Also, thank you very much for being the only one who tried answering my question here: Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Miscellaneous. While I might have asked this question in a clumsy way, I also think that the reactions to this question were excessive. After all, I am supposed to forget all moments during my childhood years (specifically back when I was ages 9 to 17) when girls in my class and/or at my school wore short shorts or short skirts? Futurist110 (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Dare we hope?

Hi StuRat.

Is it possible that you have finally seen sense and are acknowledging that the third person singular neuter possessive pronoun is "its"?

Heavens be praised, the prodigal returns to the fold. Let spontaneous joy occur! :) -- Jack of Oz 23:49, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I never denied that this was the official way, I just choose not to use it. I would guess that there are some grammatical rules which you take a pass on, too. StuRat (talk) 00:01, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe, possibly, but I can't bring one to mind right now.

It must be hard for you, though, to be constantly switching between using the official spelling in contexts where you deem it to be unavoidable, and your preferred apostrophised version wherever you (think you) can get away with it. Some people simply don't know the difference, and always use it's. There's something to be said for blissful ignorance, I guess. But once you know this, you can't unknow it. -- Jack of Oz 00:33, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

According to EO, "its" actually was written "it's" in older times. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:29, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Good to know: 'To "it's", the once and future form !' StuRat (talk) 03:53, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

A Cockney baseball fan might say that Pete Rose is the all-time leader in 'it's. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 04:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

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Pronunciation of "fillet"

Greetings. For a re-run of the arguments, see this 2015 thread, which quotes Filet, fillet and the pronunciation of other French borrowings. That article says that "fillet" was first taken into the English language in the 14th century, at which time, the final "t" was probably pronounced in French, and "it could be that it was imported to the Americas at a time when its spelling had not yet settled down and the influence of French settlers headed it toward(s) the more modern French spelling and pronunciation". I am not posting this on the RefDesk, since I believe it would be a good idea to moderate our forays away from the actual question (no matter how fascinating), at least until such times as the wolves are not howling at our doors. Best regards, Alansplodge (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Yep, good idea. No matter how complex the etymology of this particular word may be, there does seem to be an attempt by the English to "Anglify" French words. Hence my point about them not particularly caring if they pronounce French city names correctly. And I would extend this to all soldiers in any foreign lands. StuRat (talk) 01:43, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

"It's"

StuRat your absence from the Reference Desks will be missed. The present mess of unexplained strikouts of your own posts leaves a sour impression of pettiness that will take time to fade. When a healing time has passed both for the community and yourself, I look forward to you presenting a fresh face to Misplaced Pages, one that does not treat criticisms by other editors as errors to be debugged. Whether, and how you choose to appeal the ban will be up to you but I believe that applying the KISS principle will serve you best. Show simply that you accomodate as valid the concerns that led to your ban, without necessarily proposing a new set of conditions for debate. If that is what you do, you may let me know and I would like to add to the friendly support expressed by other colleagues here. My small price is to be convinced that you will adopt Standard English in your usage of the apostrophe in "YOU'RE" (as not done here) and use "ITS" without apostrophe (when appropriate, not just by your whim). Blooteuth (talk) 16:37, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Your example doesn't seem to show the possessive form, where I choose to use the apostrophe against convention. That example shows the contraction for "it is", and there is no disagreement on use of the apostrophe there. I do, however, note that I mistakenly said "a oblate" when it should have been "an oblate". StuRat (talk) 16:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

"ITS" without apostrophe is the possessive form (actually the 3rd person singular possessive) and you are refusing to recognize that it exists in our language, apparently motivated by your expectation that your destiny is to teach Misplaced Pages a better(?) English. The facts that "it is" may be contracted as IT'S, and the use of "AN" before a noun that begins with a vowel, are not in dispute, so to reward your correct confirmations of them here is a story. On 19 November 1863 Abraham Lincoln had an all-day bout of Hiccups. Faithful to his presidential duties, he nevertheless struggled that day to deliver a prepared speech at a national cemetery. The event passed tolerably well because the speech, interspersed with hiccups, was not too long and the solemnity of the occasion precluded outright sniggers among those present. Nevertheless it is the hiccups that stayed in their memory, to the detriment of Lincoln's intended message which as a result, in this story, is lost to history instead of being cherished as one of the greatest and most influential statements of America's purpose. The story is a metaphor, where you are playing Lincoln and your whimsical superfluous apostrophes are his hiccups. There is no merit in persisting in distorting ITS to IT'S; the change merely forces the reader to pause and analyze what is your error that hinders sensible parsing of your sentence. No one will thank you for imposing that burden and, like sniggers at hiccups, it has probably contributed to the general annoyance of which you are now made forcibly aware. With undiminished respect for the contributions that you could make in the future, I see it as rational for Misplaced Pages to keep closed its door to you as long as you remain obsessed with an agenda to defy a basic grammatical convention that has been repeatedly explained to you.

its & it's

This user understands the difference between its and it's. So should you.

Blooteuth (talk) 18:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Random gnome edit

Start doing random gnome edits, like I do. Main space editing is the major reason for being on Misplaced Pages. GoodDay (talk) 17:01, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand "random gnome edit". StuRat (talk) 17:02, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Hit the random article button & look for any spelling errors (for example) on articles. That's what I've been doing for years, check out my contribs. Spelling corrections, fixing birth/death intros, dashes, etc. is what I usually do. GoodDay (talk) 17:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, but that sounds really boring. If I happen to look up something and find an error while there, I will fix that. StuRat (talk) 17:06, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

I too, found it boring, at first. But, it changes your approach & thinking on Misplaced Pages & slowy restores your status in the community. Right now, 75% of my edits are to 'main space'. That's a jump from 39% in 2011. More work/less talk is the best way, I found. GoodDay (talk) 17:10, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

I'd have to do somewhere around 262,000 main space edits to make it to 75% main space edits (plus 3x as many non-main space edits as I make during that time). I will probably be dead before that could happen. But I'm not happy with Misplaced Pages, anyway, particularly the lack of civility. Not only do Admins not stop it, they are quite often the source. Instead, I shall look for a more pleasant environment to work. I've contributed some to WikiHow, and found that to be a more friendly environment, so I may go there. StuRat (talk) 17:23, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Don't blame the admins, blame the community (or rather the miniscule fraction thereof who frequent ANI) who refuse to support the admins in enforcing civility. We are self-governed. Any admin who took a strong stand on civility in the current environment would find him/herself without a mop (after a few months of pure hell). ―Mandruss ☎ 18:21, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

belated missive

I'm sorry it came to this, and I'm sorry I didn't manage to get an oppose !vote in (not that it looks like it would have mattered in the end).

I do think you were often too quick to speculate on questions you should have left alone, but I don't think you deserved a ban. But the vitriol of a crowd on a self-righteous crusade can be a scary thing. —Steve Summit (talk) 13:24, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. StuRat (talk) 16:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

See you around

See you around Stu. I was hoping people could at least offer some kind of probationary period of good faith, but apparently not. I think it spells doom for one or two other ref desk regulars who frequently perform much "worse" than you ever did. Good luck spending all the time you spent at the ref desks doing something else. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Maybe not. If they felt the need for a ritual sacrifice, they've now gotten it out of their system for a while. StuRat (talk) 21:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

I threw myself on your pyre, wailing gibberish. Hope you don't mind. You were a good rat, all things considered. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. BTW, I have an Incredible Hulk joke I should tell you, since you seem to be a fan: Bruce Banner: "Don't get me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." ... "I'm sure you're right, because I don't even like you now." :-) StuRat (talk) 15:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I don't really like him, either. David Banner was alright. My name is actually a lazy ripoff of the incredible ripoff. Common mistake, no worries. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Odd, it did redirect to the Hulk page, and Stan Lee is known for using the same letter in first and last names of his characters. BTW, your link didn't work. StuRat (talk) 01:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Peter Parker was my favourite alliteration, if we don't count Hulk Hogan as a Marvel character. My (allegedly) broken link is to the legal origin story of how he became one. Spiderman had his own knockoff wrestler, but not famous enough for good allusion. Here he is battling the evil Lou Fabiano (not to be confused with Lou Ferrigno, from the David Banner universe). InedibleHulk (talk) 19:09, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Credit where credit is due

You conducted yourself with exemplary calmness and open-mindedness throughout the ordeal. I'm sorry it did not work out well. Bus stop (talk) 20:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. I was willing to listen, but they weren't. StuRat (talk) 21:46, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

...those of you who offered it, that is. I'm going to semi-retire from Misplaced Pages now. I'll probably stop in to check on messages from time to time, and if I happen to run across a Misplaced Pages article that needs a grammar or spelling fix, I might do that (at least until I need to add a ref to prove that my spelling is correct). And I'll also do some archiving on this page, as it's gotten rather long. So, see you all around. StuRat (talk) 15:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Conduct at Reference Desks arbitration case request archived

Hi StuRat. The Conduct at Reference Desks arbitration case request, submitted 30 October 2017, has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 00:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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January 2018

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Night of the Comet, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:47, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

• Pleased see WP:BURDEN. It is your burden to add a citation for this. Until you do, it does not belong in the article. You can't site the film for this, because the film doesn't label it as a mistake. Misplaced Pages is not the place to add unsourced trivia like this. Add it to your blog or the IMDb if you want to add unsourced trivia somewhere. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:50, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Just what kind of source do you need to prove that when somebody beats the 6th place score, it then becomes the 7th place score ? This is patently obvious. StuRat (talk) 04:53, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

If it's obvious, it should be easy for you to prove it via a citation to a reliable source that the film got this detail wrong. If you can't do that, it doesn't belong on Misplaced Pages. In real life, people don't turn into zombies. There are many details that are not true to real life, but it's not Misplaced Pages's place to go around pointing them out. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:56, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

You won't be able to find proof of the patently obvious. I doubt, for example, that you will find a peer-reviewed scientific journal article that proves that people don't turn into zombies. StuRat (talk) 04:59, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I probably could, but that's immaterial. The point is that unsourced trivia/"goofs" sections like this are original research and don't belong on Misplaced Pages. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:34, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

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Hexagons Pool

Hi, I see that long ago you offered to change the (wrong) name of the Hexagon pool article to "Hexagons Pool". Either you forgot, or somebody wrongly reversed it. The name comes from the many hexagonal basalt columns standing around the water, the pool is by no means hexagonal, nor is there just one column, and the original, Hebrew name is in the plural - more than enough reasons to use the plural as the only correct option, There might be a singular version used around the net, but I see no justification for it whatsoever. Also, Pool should be capitalised, as it's part of a standing geographic name. Would you mind making the change? Thank you! Cheers, Arminden (talk) 11:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Welcome back

It seems to me that if you want to resume working on the Ref Desk, you could appeal your ban (assuming it hasn't expired already). Things seem calmer than they once were. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:25, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, but that was a mistake. I thought I was at another site where I answer questions. As soon as I realized I was here, I deleted it. Not interested in returning; just too many angry people here, many of them Admins. StuRat (talk) 19:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Understood. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:42, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

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SE Michigan restaurant status during COVID-19 (coronavirus) outbreak

Here's a list of the status here in SE Michigan:

Einstein Bagel          - Open for take-out only, some stores close early:
 Southfield Rd N of 12 Mile: 2 PM
 Woodward N of 11 Mile: 1 PM
Logans Roadhouse        - Closed
Panera Bread            - Drive thru locations only (no in-restaurant take-out)
Romano's Macaroni Grill - Livonia location closed, Ann Arbor open

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Proposed deletion of Self-competition

The article Self-competition has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Possibly a duplicate of Cannibalization (marketing) which has 10 cites whereas this has none

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"Accustimisation" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Accustimisation has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 15 § Accustimisation until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:58, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

"Accustimization" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Accustimization has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 15 § Accustimization until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:59, 15 December 2023 (UTC)